Thread 16748482

Is acupuncture for back pain just placebo or is there something to it?

>>16748482 (OP)
could fuck up some of your nerves

the chinese explanation for acupuncture is literally star dusts and invisible rivers of fate so i wouldnt count on it

>>16748482 (OP)
try it out—scientist

>>16748482 (OP)
its legit, human ley lines

>>16748482 (OP)
>>16748494
I can't speak to back pain, and I don't buy into any of the ancient-chinese-secret explanations, but there is something happening. Most likely it's as simple as parasympathetic nerve activation.

>>16748482 (OP)
Probably mostly placebo, but like other anons have said there could be some nerve activation going on which relaxes your muscles.

>>16748482 (OP)
Does it matter if it works?

I've never met a quack medical cure for my starting strength after a lifetime of sedentary gamerism induced back pain that didn't make me feel better.

>>16748494
Ancient people explained many things that work in incorrect ways.

>>16748494
no it isnt. It is about energy pathways through as I explained here >>16748497


The human body, the earth, the entire universe operate on the same geometric principles and proportions ie fractal microcosm of macrocosms (adam kadmon). Any mention of "rivers" is allegorical symbolism as rivers are the veins of the planet so on and so forth

>>16748547
through *the body*

acupuncture redirects the chi through the chakras

https://esotericawakening.com/12-chakras

>acupuncture redirects the chi through the chakras
like building a dam, or rerouting a river to irrigate crops that need more water

>>16748547
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkCb0RtyAWE

>>16748608
energy, just like water, flows in channels, through the universe, through the planet, through your body.

I am not an expert but I understand the general idea.

>acupuncture redirects the chi through the chakras
>like rerouting a river to irrigate crops that need more water

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RSEXvHURYU

>>16748494
Actually, you're just retarded. Have you thought of that, kiddo?

>>16748613
>>16748550
>>16748547
Metal needles:
>interact with chi in order to redirect it's flow through the body

Also metal needles:
>cannot interact with chi in any way that would allow you to detect or measure the chi itself or it's flow, in human body or otherwise

>>16748613
>>acupuncture redirects the chi through the chakras
>>like rerouting a river to irrigate crops that need more water
How do you know which parts need more chi? If i randomly changed the flow of a river with my eyes closed with no way to determine where the crops actually are, I wouldn't achieve shit. You need to measure the chi content somehow, how?

>>16748675
>How do you know which parts need more chi?
98% of patients who try out acupuncture unironically complain about ED and/or lower back pain, so they know in advance.

>>16748675
What do you mean with your eyes closed? How is this in any way an apt comparison? If you are asking how they know where the energy channels are I imagine because it is something that has been studied for 1000's of years. This is like asking a modern doctor how they know where veins are.

They arent "going in blind." The patient tells them what their ailment is and they know what energies need to be redirected just like when you see wilted plants you know which ones need water.

>>16748711
>just like when you see wilted plants you know which ones need water
We can observe water in plant cells tho.

>>16748613
>>16748547
>>16748497
This is the dumbest shit I've ever heard.

>>16748761
If you arent smart enough to understand something so simple then I highly doubt it. I imagine everything sounds stupid to you

There is a medical technique called dry needling this similar to acupuncture. its mostly used to stimulate healing of intramuscular systems. It worked on my hand when i jacked up the muscles between my pointer and middle finger.

>>16748963
Thanks for your anecdote.

>>16748482 (OP)
Stop it Alex

>>16748533
By definition the "placebo effect" always "works". It's the quantification of the effect that you need to consider.

>>16748482 (OP)
After having extensae work done on me I can definitively say it is good for one thing and one thing only: release of tension in muscles over-guarding injuries.

When you have an injury muscles will compensate to protect that injury. After the injury heals--or even as it is healing--those over compensating muscles in a "guard" will cause pain. After the injury has healed those over-compensating muscles will be stronger and may not release--causing more pain well after the injury.

Acupuncture is a VERY good tool for correcting the issue of over-compensating muscles in a "guard" as the injury is healing and after.

It is also good for people who work out A-LOT who have muscle imbalances as a result--this can help release over used muscles causing tension in zones between over developed and under developed muscles.

Everything else is bullshit and not every acupuncturist is worth trusting--just like doctors. As a general rule if they try to sell you herbal remedies as part of the treatment they're scammers.
>>16748488
No it doesn't.
>>16748494
And before microscopes it was believed bugs grew out of meat left in the open--don't throw the baby out with the bathwater because they came up with a usable conclusion from bunk correlations.

>>16749073
>No it doesn't.
so it's impossible for a needle to fuck any of your nerves?

>>16749073
>And before microscopes it was believed bugs grew out of meat left in the open
bug do grow out of meat left in the open (from eggs laid in it). What else would you call it?

>>16749142
>What else would you call it?
Spontaneous generation

>>16748482 (OP)
no evidence

>>16749146
that isnt what you said, what you claimed they say, was in fact true

Give 'dry needling' a try sometime and you will become a believer.

>>16749182
>to whom am i speaking
>of what am i speaking
>but why am i speaking
Kek.

>>16749018
the fuck do placebos have to do with this?

>>16749208
>i will never learn how to read a thread
KEK!

>>16749208
Nothing. /sci/ is really simple.
>Is it mainstream and the existing authorities have given permission to believe in it?
Then it's heckin based and valid and should be defended.

>Is it considered "alternative medicine"?
Then it's le bad and should be denigrated.

Stupidest golem you'll ever meet. In China they've done open heart surgery using only blocking the meridians with accupuncture for pain relief, and the use of hypnosis in surgery has been well documented. The argument about dissociation + compartmentalization vs actually ignoring the pain signals goes on of course.

They don't know any of this because they don't care. They're just followers that want to fit in. dealing with them is like a rite of passage.

>>16749208
All placebos work.
Some placebos work better than others.

>>16748761
are you saying energy does't flow in channels? wtf do we use power lines for then? Never heard of "the path of least resistance?" JFC do they teach zoomers any actual science in science classes anymore?

>>16749231
>>Is it considered "alternative medicine"?
you should easily be able to prove it gives better results. not saying there isn't shit pharma is keeping away, as it would fuck with their income, but most alternative medicine bullshit is...bullshit.
it actually happens because of people like you. if people wouldn't give a fuck about it, scammers would go out of business. but precisely because idiots like you buy into it, it keeps the grift going.

>>16749142
I apologize for not spoon feeding my example to your 80 IQ abilities.
You're right, we shouldn't wash our hands because germ theory didn't exist when Ignaz Semmelweis told doctors to wash their hands during child birth--his conclusions were invalid because he believed in corpse particles.

>>16749106
Nerve injury: maybe. If you're implying permanent nerve damage there really isn't any substantiated evidence for it except maybe the retards that hook up electrodes to them--but that isn't what I consider acupuncture.

>>16749241
What is the difference between a placebo that works and actual medicine? Absolutely nothing.

The irony is many modern medical procedures and drugs can also be attributed to placebo effect.

>>16749301
>placebo that works and actual medicine?
Like I said, some placebos work better than others.

>>16749294
>it actually happens because of people like you. if people wouldn't give a fuck about it, scammers would go out of business. but precisely because idiots like you buy into it, it keeps the grift going.
Here you see the slave blaming anyone other than his abuser, and doing whatever he has to in order to facilitate characterizing me in a way that justifies him doing this. Despite not knowing shit, he makes something up.

>>16749296
>your low IQ because I tried to clown on people by saying they said something wasnt true but is actually true
Ah I see now. You are just straight up retarded

>>16748482 (OP)
A lot of chiropractors also work with acupuncturists. It's usually best to not give money or clout to grifters.

>>16749231
>Is it mainstream and the existing authorities have given permission to believe in it? Then it's heckin based and valid and should be defended.
>Is it considered "alternative medicine"? Then it's le bad and should be denigrated.
This but unironically because it's true.

>>16749073
>After having extensae work done on me I can definitively say
There's actually a shitton of "alternative" therapies, curatives and practices that actually seriously unironically work for some people, legitimately helping them more than placebo does, due to individual peculiarities of their organisms. The very same therapies, curatives and practices also straight up cripple or kill a few other people for the same reason. And doesn't do jack shit for the overwhelming majority.

In order to be categorized as legitimate medicine, it has to reliably and safely produce a measurable non-psychosomatic positive effect in the majority of potential recipients, not help that one guy's coworker's uncle so well he swears by it.