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Thread 16756632

63 posts 12 images /sci/
Anonymous No.16756632 >>16756666 >>16756773 >>16757216 >>16757312 >>16758052 >>16758062 >>16758064 >>16758113 >>16758127 >>16758306 >>16759064 >>16763214 >>16763389 >>16764172 >>16764321
The universe is not locally real.
Anonymous No.16756663
quite
Anonymous No.16756666
>>16756632 (OP)
That's actually a good thing because the real world sucks ass
Anonymous No.16756773 >>16756776 >>16763016 >>16763027 >>16763451
>>16756632 (OP)
>Worthless idea that can't be tested and has no predictive relevance
Anonymous No.16756776
>>16756773
>can't be tested
Aspect 1982
Anonymous No.16757216
>>16756632 (OP)
you're some dumbass masters student at cornell that just started learning QM lmao
Anonymous No.16757312
>>16756632 (OP)
keep me posted
Anonymous No.16757361
The universe is not locally real says a being in the universe. WTF! Lol
Anonymous No.16758029
Yes. There are things that move faster than light.
Anonymous No.16758037
Okie dokie artichokie.
Anonymous No.16758052 >>16763222
>>16756632 (OP)
years later and i still dont know what they meant by this or how their experiment proved it
Anonymous No.16758062 >>16758067
>>16756632 (OP)
People read these dumbed down science articles and think the physics definition of "locally real" is the same as the layman definition. As always, the magic disappears once you read the actual theory.
Anonymous No.16758064
>>16756632 (OP)
locally, the rest of the universe isn't real
Anonymous No.16758067 >>16758068 >>16758103
>>16758062
explain it for me physics chad
Anonymous No.16758068
>>16758067
The words Japanese and Jalapeno mean the same thing.
Anonymous No.16758083
[Hidden retribution statistics Becoming transegmental Data Science known]
What is that expounded accurately?
Does anyone know?
What is the multiple summations?
Not to mention retribution in this thread

Also Why and What is that in regards to OP Question?

[ ] this part is also Has a any word Positive HyperPositive but I'm asking in this thread anyway

Like, as in* whatever that andor those may be...
Like futurology towns projects drying up
What is the multiple summations

While People Live Happily with New Beamy Highway and Hyperloop Etc
Anonymous No.16758103 >>16758110 >>16758125
>>16758067
All it means, is that in our universe, it's impossible for interactions to be local AND for quantum objects to have hidden variables that determine their properties before measurement, one of those must be false. Either interactions can be non-local, or quantum objects only have their properties once a measurement occurs (or both).

As you can see, none of this implies that the universe isn't "real" in the common layman definition. It doesn't imply that we live in a simulation, or something like that.
Anonymous No.16758110 >>16758118
>>16758103
>Either interactions can be non-local
so interactions can be non-local then... what does that imply?
Anonymous No.16758113
>>16756632 (OP)
>download.jpg
does it get more unorganic than this?
Anonymous No.16758118 >>16758120 >>16760823
>>16758110
Non-local implies that two objects can interact with each other over very long distances, in such a way that it appears to affect each other faster than the speed of light. It's the "spooky action at a distance".
Anonymous No.16758120
>>16758118
hmm thanks physics chad
Anonymous No.16758125 >>16758294 >>16762955
>>16758103
>none of this implies that the universe isn't "real" in the common layman definition
>quantum objects only have their properties once a measurement occurs
But doesn't this imply a kind of lack of foundational reality
It's kinda spooky desu I prefer non-locality to this
Anonymous No.16758127 >>16758227
>>16756632 (OP)
The dumbass thought this meant locally real as like a R^n manifold.
Anonymous No.16758227
>>16758127
Perhaps it did.
Anonymous No.16758234
Is it even really local?
Anonymous No.16758294 >>16759062
>>16758125
A real theory like bohmian mechanics in the abstract sounds fine but I think as you look into it, realize its just hype.

First, all Bohmian mechanics does is simply in the abstract imagine some system of hidden variables that interacts in some way with the wave function, but it doesn't say at all in what way. Normally one has Ξ¨(t) as a wave-function, and one solves explicitly for what Ξ¨ looks like as a function of t. What Bohmian does is speculate instead on some function Ξ¨(q(t),t) where q(t) is particle configuration, so Ξ¨ is actually a wave that guides the particles and their real states. But never can it in any meaningful, measurable way say how Ξ¨ depends on q itself. Maybe it can in the future but Bohmian mechanics does not at all. It's about as well an explanation as saying 'it does because it does'.

Bohmian mechanics 'wants' q(t) to be the actual physical state, something that exists in space, but Ξ¨ is the one with actual presence in physical laws (see Schrodinger equation). But Ξ¨ is a function over *all* configurations at all points in time, so it's like you want me to calculate all possible worlds here to determine what's going on in this one. Hmmmm, I wonder what name we have for that? This has lead to the criticism that it is essentially many worlds interpretation with extra steps.

Because of the totally unspecified manner of q, it is not relativistic and has had issues reconciling with that, meanwhile ordinary quantum mechanics has lead to quantum field theory and that has been wildly successful.

There is some pragmatic level of clear 'measurability weirdness' going on, about measuring something one way and changing the property of another, or even destroying information from a past measurement: look at the Stern-Gerlach experiment.

So from the pragmatic end, typical theories feel more honest about what we know and some of the inherent difficulty in separating 'observation' to the experiment itself (Heisenberg cuts)
Anonymous No.16758306
>>16756632 (OP)
wait til you see earth 2
Anonymous No.16759062
>>16758294
>you want me to calculate all possible worlds
no
the theory says you can only have perfect answers if you have perfect knowledge of how the universe started (a God's eye view), while the rest of us will have to make do with statistics
Anonymous No.16759064 >>16760702
>>16756632 (OP)
It is locally p-adic but for what p?
Anonymous No.16759119 >>16764339
imagine bumping this shit thread
Anonymous No.16760702
>>16759064
the one that comes from pp
Anonymous No.16760823 >>16760993 >>16763253
>>16758118
Which is fine. I don't see any real reason to have problems with non-local interactions. Hell, even the "speed of light being the fastest anything can go" bit is something that is not really justifiable once you understand a bit about how operators work. The speed of light could be a literally constantly varying random quantity and you could get exactly the sort of dilation/distortion effects just from ill-conditioning alone.
Anonymous No.16760993 >>16764160
>>16760823
light doesn't have a speed btw. no joke
Anonymous No.16762084
Successor theory
Anonymous No.16762955 >>16764157
>>16758125
I think everyone prefers non-locality. Who cares about this light-speed thing anyway.
Anonymous No.16763016
>>16756773
oh me focking science
Anonymous No.16763027
>>16756773
now let's look at what ideas that are testable and have "predictive relevance" have given us
>another variety of microplastics to be spread around the environment
great!
Anonymous No.16763119
Spacetime isn’t locally real. Think about it.
bodhi No.16763214
>>16756632 (OP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z6EvBFblvg
Anonymous No.16763222
>>16758052
>pic
They got rid of play places because they were nothing but a massive liability, lazy parents would visit these just to dump their brood there to piss, vomit and shit in the tunnels and the workers would have to clean it up which none of them wanted to do, it was just a mess
Anonymous No.16763253 >>16763329 >>16764187 >>16764196
>>16760823
https://web.archive.org/web/20200809060306/https://motls.blogspot.com/2019/08/incredibly-low-intelligence-of-anti.html?m=1
Anonymous No.16763329 >>16763354
>>16763253
Another career wasted on strings
Anonymous No.16763354
>>16763329
1 red banner of labour has been deposited into your columbia university user account
Anonymous No.16763389
>>16756632 (OP)
I would argue that the idea "the universe is real" is necessarily true each time it is thought.
Anonymous No.16763451 >>16764163
>>16756773
>produces perfectly anticorrelated patterns in strictly probabilistic processes separated by long distances
>proves mathematically that the state corresponds to physical reality rather than some uncertainty of it
Either the universe is not locally real or it's conspiring to trick us into thinking it isn't.
Anonymous No.16764157
>>16762955
Almost every physicist on the planet is going to prefer locality. It's what gives us QFT.
Anonymous No.16764160
>>16760993
It does: while the two way speed of light vs one way speed of light has often been touted now 'in principle' making any speed possible, this uses different synchronization conventions which are conventions and causes not real physical difference, and you can convert to say what is meant by 'constant speed of light' in the standard theory, versus that of a non-relativistic theory (galilean mechanics). These asymmetric speed of light theories take particular forms.

A general discussion is given in Reichenbach synchronization. Anyway in general relativity, physical meanings of space and time completely break down, making these synchronization conventions kind of pointless.
Anonymous No.16764163 >>16764353
>>16763451
The 'tricking into thinking it isn't' is known as superdeterminism.
Anonymous No.16764172
>>16756632 (OP)
Of course it is. If this were a simulation, browns would be smart.
Anonymous No.16764175
Which is a Feature? Not a bug.
Anonymous No.16764187
>>16763253
I don't think I've outsmarted Einstein. I just recognize that if you do a frame translation between an object moving at non-relativistic speeds (e.g., 100 m/s or so) and an object moving at 100,000 km/s, you're going to get spectral distortions in your calculations just from ill-conditioning alone. That speed could be constantly changing, and that will still happen.
Anonymous No.16764196 >>16764200
>>16763253
> OK, so first of all, no one has seen such a speedon – or any manifestation of a superluminal propagation of anything tangible. But if such a particle or an effect is important enough in the laws of physics, it must exist somewhere.

This is a really fucking stupid argument. It could very well be the case that there are entire categories of particles that travel faster than the speed of light, but that our mechanisms for measuring their state/position (which are all conveniently constrained by the speed of light as a result of being EM in some form or another) are inherently limiting our observation of them.

Think about trying to measure the speed of an object that is moving away from you at 10 times the fastest speed you could ever manage. It would be impossible unless you got incredibly lucky. A lack of evidence for subatomic particles or field dynamics which propagate faster than light is not at all evidence of their absence.
Anonymous No.16764200 >>16764219
>>16764196
>Think about trying to measure the speed of an object that is moving away from you at 10 times the fastest speed you could ever manage. It would be impossible unless you got incredibly lucky. A lack of evidence for subatomic particles or field dynamics which propagate faster than light is not at all evidence of their absence.
Uhh You use a combination of clarketech? One being reverse time? Andor zerotime? So reverse time would make the object appear faster? Or would it?
An idea
Anonymous No.16764219 >>16764269 >>16764282
>>16764200
You're probably joking, but we would genuinely need technology that is currently unfathomable (as really, it would rely on new physics developments) to actually meaningfully observe particles (likely non-massive) or field propagation which occurs faster than light. For all we know, quantum randomness could correspond to the influence of a fundamentally chaotic faster than life influence that we have no practical mechanism to directly observe.
Anonymous No.16764269 >>16764282
>>16764219
Oh Yah
Anonymous No.16764282 >>16764308
>>16764269
>>16764219
Weird
Anonymous No.16764308
>>16764282
Anonymous No.16764321 >>16764328 >>16764661
>>16756632 (OP)
LOCALS ONLY, NO TOURISTS.
Anonymous No.16764328
>>16764321
More for "gee", less for Chee?
Anonymous No.16764339
>>16759119
Cute car
Anonymous No.16764353 >>16764355
>>16764163
Yes I know. It's also not science.
Anonymous No.16764355
>>16764353
I agree (though Gerard t'Hooft wrote on it and I want to see in more detail). Just pointing out what that's called.
Anonymous No.16764661
>>16764321
>no tourists
How do you think UFOs even get here? Through local means?