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Thread 16774118

92 posts 4 images /sci/
Anonymous No.16774118 >>16774126 >>16774159 >>16774162 >>16774163 >>16774202 >>16774399 >>16774531 >>16774547 >>16774798 >>16774882 >>16776760 >>16776770 >>16777457 >>16778681 >>16778706 >>16778713 >>16778720 >>16778754 >>16779273 >>16779277 >>16780176 >>16780355 >>16780476 >>16780668 >>16780747
If meditation is a magic bullet to depression, anxiety, and ADHD, why are doctors prescribing meth, instead?
Anonymous No.16774126
>>16774118 (OP)
You just answered your own question.
Anonymous No.16774159
>>16774118 (OP)
They don't want to have to sit there and train people how to meditate and the nuances of focus and applying it to all those different aspects of life when they can just give them meth, send them on their way, and charge them a reup fee every month for their entire life.
Anonymous No.16774162
>>16774118 (OP)
Money
Anonymous No.16774163 >>16774272 >>16775258
>>16774118 (OP)
It's not. Maybe if your entire mental condition is due to being an insecure faggot or just really, really sad it might work, but for people with real issues it's like trying to treat a severed arm with hugs and kisses.
Anonymous No.16774202
>>16774118 (OP)
People are lazy and don't want to put in effort
Anonymous No.16774272 >>16780276
>>16774163
I'll take the fact that you're not using any medical terms that you're just making up nonsense.
Anonymous No.16774369
Because meditation and breath exercises are free.
bodhi No.16774399 >>16779658
>>16774118 (OP)
I first read the dhammapada when I was about 19 or 20. When I read it I knew there was a global conspiracy behind cucktianity because if there wasnt, what is in that book would be taught children in schools instead of stupid shit about kikes on a stick
Anonymous No.16774521 >>16774528 >>16778865 >>16779822
It won't FIX or compete with sleeping
It won't FIX OR compete with resistance training or cardio

Therefore its overstated. All its really competing with, is a afternoon nap, without any of the risks associated with that.
I'd like OP to not be a complete turbo faggot, and come back to the thread and refute this properly. Meditation is basically a meme, and the idea of "replacing sleep with meditation" has been a meme for over a century by this point, and has never been demonstrated.
Anonymous No.16774528 >>16774534 >>16774536 >>16775156
>>16774521
>It won't FIX OR compete with resistance training or cardio
Fix... resistance training? I don't get it.
As for competing, the effects of exercise are vastly overblown by mainstream junk science.
No one speaks up about the amount of academic pollution in medical journals in this area, because we've been conditioned into thinking exercise is healthy.
Anonymous No.16774531
>>16774118 (OP)
Meditation isnt a magic bullet. Meditation of a certain type that teaches how to analyze your mind is a magic bullet. The key is "certain" kind. It has to be directed towards something and in some way.
Anonymous No.16774534 >>16774537
>>16774528
>the effects of exercise are vastly overblown by mainstream junk science.
And you do 30 minutes of cardio twice a week, right anon?
Lmao
Anonymous No.16774536
>>16774528
>Fix... resistance training?
You meditate to gain increased restitution. And sleep is the most important restitution. And exercise the 2nd most.
Without enough restitution, you lack the motivation to really exercise. Meditation won't fix that, or take the edge of malnutrition or vitamin poisoning ruining your sleep quality.
Anonymous No.16774537 >>16774540 >>16778523
>>16774534
I don't do any cardio that exceeds a simple walk. It's fundamentally detrimental for your health, since you increase your metabolic rate, which shortens your lifespan.
Anonymous No.16774540
>>16774537
=D
Anonymous No.16774547 >>16774550
>>16774118 (OP)
Meditation takes hours. Meth takes seconds.
Anonymous No.16774550 >>16774557
>>16774547
Why would you do more than 50 breaths? That is like 10 minutes
Anonymous No.16774557
>>16774550
>10 minutes
Yeah, meth still sounds more efficient.
Anonymous No.16774798
>>16774118 (OP)
>ADHD
it isnt, its just a beneficial self-treatment tool and generally healthy practice, in terms of helping ADHD symptoms it's completely incomparably impotent compared to even weak stimulants

t. ADHD haver that's tried almost half a hundred different "cures" pretty thoroughly
Anonymous No.16774882 >>16774894 >>16778756
>>16774118 (OP)
literally weed cured my fucking ADHD more than the fucking antipsychotics they gave me. the constant buzzing thoughts are so quiet now.
Anonymous No.16774894
>>16774882
I wish that worked for me. I was prescribed medicinal cannabis for anxiety but I stopped feeling the effects after only like two weeks. I guess some people build a tolerance to it quite quickly.
Dave No.16775132 >>16775139 >>16775146
In Europe they won't give you meth lol
They will pretty much tell you to suck it up and charge your insurance
Anonymous No.16775139
>>16775132
yeah, If I'm jealous about on thing about the US it's how easy their doctors will throw drugs at them . Even getting diagnosed with ADHD is almost impossible at a certain age, or you have to pay for some elaborate tests out of your own pocket
Anonymous No.16775146
>>16775132
Europe is a third world continent. Something like 300K people per year die due to lack of access to AC in the summer. Its insanity.
Anonymous No.16775156 >>16775171
>>16774528
>the effects of exercise are vastly overblown by mainstream junk science
They aren't, i know from experience how much of an insane difference it makes to start running and doing calisthenics when you lived a totally inactive "sit-on-your-ass-all-day" lifestyle before. My mind is sharper, i have actual energy to do things, daily stressors barely affect me, "depression" is something i can't even recall the feeling of. I used to be a complete wreck a few years ago. Sedentarism is suicide and you're a cunt for promoting such a self-destructive lifestyle to others, even if by insinuation.
Anonymous No.16775171 >>16775211 >>16775376 >>16776815
>>16775156
This but with meditation.
I know from experience that jogging every single day for months on end doesn't change a single thing.
I was still as anxious and my mind was still as busy as when I started.
I even started to go the gym and bought myself weights, got myself to follow a schedule and a routine.
In the end, I realized that I was just distracting my mind with euphoric chemicals after a gruelling workout, the same way orgasming would.
It did not solve anything.

It was only when I started meditating that I started to appreciate life again and everything in my life fell into place.

>Sedentarism is suicide
What is "sedentarism"? You can go on walks without calling it exercise.
Show some papers if you're incapable arguing your own point.
>and you're a cunt for promoting such a self-destructive lifestyle to others
Lack of meditation is not just self-destructive, it's destructive to every single being around you.
Anonymous No.16775211 >>16775225
>>16775171
If thinking about the state of the world along with yourself makes you depressed, why would sitting down and thinking about the state of the world along with yourself for even longer make you undepressed?
Anonymous No.16775225 >>16775226
>>16775211
>why would sitting down and thinking about the state of the world along with yourself
If you don't know what meditation is, then this conversation is less fruitful than a simple Google search.
Anonymous No.16775226 >>16775251
>>16775225
Its just sitting down being alone with your thoughts, so if being with your thoughts about the world makes you depressed, how is being alone with your thoughts about the world while sitting going to make you undepressed?
Anonymous No.16775251 >>16775259
>>16775226
But this is not meditation? I'm honestly at a loss, why would you engage in a conversation about it if you don't care about knowing what it is?
Anonymous No.16775258
>>16774163
>you can't use meditation to help treat underlying causes!
Oh? How good are you at identifying your problems, anon? Did you think the guy giving you xanax had your best interests in mind?
Anonymous No.16775259 >>16775273
>>16775251
Except it is what it is and that is what google says it is, why would you assert it isn't when you can't even explain how that is wrong?
Anonymous No.16775273 >>16775286
>>16775259
If you actually would have googled it instead of stating your idea of the practice you would have known by now. The type of meditation you have in mind (Vipassana) is based on metacognition: You are with your thoughts, but from this basic fact, you can derive the following conclusion: There's you, and there is your thoughts. You aren't the same. Thus, you aren't a slave to your thoughts, you can observe them and let them go. This insight is not only quite pleasurable, but helps the individual overcome the mental health impairments it suffered from. This isn't really groundbreaking, as even in the western tradition, the stoics and mystics found this process to be healing and eudaimonic.
Anonymous No.16775286 >>16775299
>>16775273
>the type of meditation you have
I accept your concession, I was definitely describing meditation.

>You aren't the same. Thus, you aren't a slave to your thoughts
Point to where I said anything like that? I said you are with your thoughts which explicitly means you are not the same, but you still can't answer that if your thoughts tend to lead to bad feelings, why would being alone with them make you happy instead of keeping yourself active so you don't have to experience the bad way they make you feel?

>you can observe them and let them go.
Why would it make you happy to just give up on doing anything about the bad things that happen in the world, why wouldn't bad though just recur the next time bad things happen?
Anonymous No.16775299
>>16775286
Regarding your second point: This sentence isn't about your post, it's about the mindfulness meditation. For the rest of the post: Why don't you try it? I do sports, I roadbike and lift weights, I know how good it feels and that it helps with depression, I'm not the one who stated the opposite. But I also meditate, and I know that it helps as well. So, if you are interested in it, there is no harm in trying i with an online guide. It would give you more insight into the topic than 300 replies ever can.
Anonymous No.16775376
>>16775171
>What is "sedentarism"? You can go on walks without calling it exercise.
Lmao what a shut in
Anonymous No.16776760
>>16774118 (OP)
Because sitting down in this stupid manner causes aggression, not meditation.
Anonymous No.16776770
>>16774118 (OP)
>depression, anxiety
Big Pharma cooked up some shitty substances which they claim can treat depression and anxiety. Big Pharma has spent tons of money manipulating evidence to convince doctors to prescribe these drugs:
>a third of meta-analyses of antidepressant studies were written by pharma employees and... these were 22 times less likely than other meta-studies to include negative statements about the drug
https://ghostarchive.org/archive/AX474
Anonymous No.16776815
>>16775171
I had by far the worst depression and anxiety of my life when I was going to the gym 3 times per week and doing cardio twice per week.
No idea why people think sport is a panacea, the studies don't support such a strong conclusion either.
Anonymous No.16777457 >>16778629
>>16774118 (OP)
meditation is a waste of time. I never really understood it. literally nothing happens for an extended period of time. doesn't seem to do much. if it helps you it means you are challenged and your brain needs to turn off so it recovers, which means you have weak genes. imagine going crazy by humaning lmao and having to take breaks so you dont' go insane wtf
Anonymous No.16778523
>>16774537
>never cardio to keep metabolic rate low
>reach age 50
>so far so good!
>dies of heart attack
Anonymous No.16778629 >>16779252
>>16777457
>imagine going crazy by humaning lmao and having to take breaks so you dont' go insane wtf
I know this is bait but what do you think sleep is anon?
Anonymous No.16778681 >>16778726
>>16774118 (OP)
I love meditation and think everyone would benefit from it, but it is not a magic bullet. It can give you more awareness of the issues you face but it will not solve them. In fact, many people use spiritualism as a way to pretend their psyche doesn't exist instead of actually confronting their problems.
Anonymous No.16778706
>>16774118 (OP)
>If meditation is a magic bullet to depression, anxiety, and ADHD, why are doctors prescribing meth, instead?
Why did they prescribe a clotshot that kills you and gives you stroke you "protect" you from a cold?
Anonymous No.16778713
>>16774118 (OP)
>depression, anxiety, and ADHD
These are all fictional disorders
Anonymous No.16778720
>>16774118 (OP)
Because doctors don't want you knowing you can heal yourself through mediation.
Anonymous No.16778726 >>16778733
>>16778681
>I love meditation and think everyone would benefit from it, but it is not a magic bullet. It can give you more awareness of the issues you face but it will not solve them.
Grasping that none of your "issues" are real solves those issues. It also solves all subsequent issues. The Buddha's neat trick is in fact the only possible solution to the endless stream of modern life's fictional problems and the real psychological malaise they cause to those above a certain threshold of self-awareness.

If meditation didn't solve your problems, you need to meditate better.
Anonymous No.16778733 >>16778750
>>16778726
But there are many issues that are real, that can impact your entire life including your embracing of meditation and spiritualism. You cannot meditate those problems away. Sure there are plenty of superficial aspects of modern life that influence our psyche in ways that meditation can help reject as unreal. Even if "reality" is just a construct developed by our senses, to competely dissociate from it is unhealthy
Anonymous No.16778750 >>16778775
>>16778733
>there are many issues that are real, that can impact your entire life including your embracing of meditation and spiritualism
Like what? Ok, there's stuff like literal brain damage, schizophrenia, psychosis... and you probably aren't going to meditate your way out of an acute suicidal episode. But generally (especially for the kind of stuff OP lists) getting good enough at meditation that you can regularly get into the more advanced jhanna states will absolutely outdo jew meds. From there, who knows? You may even attain some degree of enlightenment, which treats the "problems" at the root.
Anonymous No.16778754
>>16774118 (OP)
I have none of those and don't meditate. Even cured my depression from college by going outside, hitting the gym, eating healthier. None of this new age meditation crap.
Anonymous No.16778756
>>16774882
That's like saying a lobotomy cured your autism.
Anonymous No.16778775 >>16778789 >>16778793 >>16778793 >>16778796 >>16778807 >>16778808 >>16778827
>>16778750
We all have many issues we're not conscious of. Deep-rooted problems stemming from childhood or other stages of life that affect our behaviour, notably with other people. Meditation, being inherently isolating and self-focused, cannot solve relational issues. It can even exacerbate them. There are tons of fucked up buddhist groups out there
Anonymous No.16778789
>>16778775
>We all have many issues we're not conscious of. Deep-rooted problems stemming from childhood or other stages of life that affect our behaviour, notably with other people.
This is the very definition of "not a real problem". This is the kind of stuff that's 100%, completely in your head and can be gotten rid of if only you choose to do so.
Anonymous No.16778793
>>16778775
>>16778775
>We all have many issues we're not conscious of. Deep-rooted problems
speak for yourself, faggot. you sound like the kind of piece of shit psychotherapist who implants false memories into patients so you have something to target in your sessions and write about in your CV. you're scum.
Anonymous No.16778796 >>16778806
>>16778775
>Deep-rooted problems stemming from childhood or other stages of life that affect our behaviour, notably with other people.
That's not a real problem, though. A real problem would be having no roof over your head, looming bankruptcy or getting abused by your husband, because they're tangible.
Anonymous No.16778806 >>16778820 >>16778822
>>16778796
>A real problem would be having no roof over your head, looming bankruptcy or getting abused by your husband
And couldn't these be caused by intangible things? People are abusive because of psychological issues caused by past experiences, that's a fucking fact
Anonymous No.16778807
>>16778775
you've never meditated have you
Anonymous No.16778808
>>16778775
people like you are the fucked up group out there
Anonymous No.16778820 >>16778822 >>16778827 >>16778830
>>16778806
>People are abusive because of psychological issues caused by past experiences
The point is that meditation heals your mind, but not the minds of other people or your physical circumstances.
Anonymous No.16778822
>>16778806
>>16778820
Your problem is that you're a redditor and a narcissist. No one ever abused you. You are the abuser.
Anonymous No.16778827
>>16778820
>>16778775
You're the asshole. You're alone because you alienate others.
Anonymous No.16778830 >>16778832 >>16778908
>>16778820
Again, that's isolation. You are focusing on yourself and your own mind, pretending your issues aren't real and cannot influence the course of your life or how you interact with others.
Anonymous No.16778832 >>16778839
>>16778830
>You are focusing on yourself and your own mind, pretending your issues aren't real and cannot influence the course of your life or how you interact with others.
Maybe if you meditate on it real hard, you will learn to tell apart "your issues" from other people's issues that you simply choose to make into your own issues.
Anonymous No.16778839 >>16778843
>>16778832
>other people's issues that you simply choose to make into your own issues.
That's the basis of compassion, Anon. Should we never be compassionate?
Anonymous No.16778843
>>16778839
But you're not compassionate. You just feel yourself to be the victim of other people's flawed mindsets, which is really just a function of your flawed mindset.
Anonymous No.16778865 >>16778893
>>16774521
>replacing sleep with meditation
I've never heard of this, sounds like some uberman schedule type bullshit
if anything meditation is supposed to make you sleep better
Anonymous No.16778893 >>16778911
>>16778865
You may also combine meditation with sleep.

I've been sleeping binaurally for years now, it does things to your brain over time. You get "jacked" into the other side more thoroughly.
Anonymous No.16778908
>>16778830
>pretending your issues aren't real and cannot influence the course of your life or how you interact with others.
The "issues" in question are memories coupled with emotions, e.g.
I remember X -> I feel Y
If the goal is to decouple the memory from the emotion, then a good way to do that is to reflect on it in a non-judgemental way with a clear mind.
This is exactly what common types of meditation accomplish: eliminating judgement and *introducing total order to your stream of thoughts.

*When you're anxious, for example, your mind becomes disordered and thoughts quickly come and go, which prevents you from rationalizing and understanding why you feel a certain way.
I've read somewhere that ADHD drastically increases your risk of developing anxiety disorder, which doesn't surprise me, considering ADHD is antithetical to ordered streams of thoughts
Anonymous No.16778911
>>16778893
Some of us have jobs, anon.
Anonymous No.16779252
>>16778629
that's part of being a normal functioning human. if you need more than that I have news for you
Anonymous No.16779273
>>16774118 (OP)
Meditation can train the mind to experience a state of consciousness that is not dependent on material factors, which is bad for consumerism, stock prices, and social consensus forming. Naturally, it won't be advertised as a solution.
Anonymous No.16779277 >>16779308
>>16774118 (OP)
People would be pissed at their doctor if they suggested lifestyle changes and meditation. People want a pill so doctors give them a pill.

Wording it alternatively, if someone wanted to try meditation as a cure they'd just do that and not go to a doctor.
Anonymous No.16779308
>>16779277
>meditation as a cure
so it is for weak genes people. I knew it
Anonymous No.16779658 >>16779701
>>16774399
>dhammapada
I typically find your posts to be annoying but thank you for introducing me to this. I find it very uplifting and enlightening so far. I am not saying this ironically or anything. Sincerely I just randomly decided to download pdf after reading your post and this is truly something that has opened my eyes and I think what I was looking for recently without even realizing it.
bodhi No.16779701 >>16779774
>>16779658
>dhammapada
if you are an "intellectual," meaning appeals to authority or emotion dont work on you and pardon the meme, but you have an "autistic" need to be incredibly logical and thorough in your understanding of reality, life and just things in general then it is the book for you. It is literally just really, really smart dudes who sat around doing nothing but thinking for 1000's of years who wrote a manual on how the best way to do everything is
Anonymous No.16779774 >>16779886 >>16779887 >>16779897 >>16779900
>>16779701
I really do appreciate it. It's the most intellectually honest spiritual book I've ever read. The issue I've had with Christianity (well one of them, at least) is the dubious logical conclusions one is forced to make based on the way it lays out metaphysics in a sloppy and short sighted manner. For example to my understanding of modern Christian doctrine, a genocidal lunatic could kill ten million unsaved men, dooming them to an ETERNITY of hellfire and suffering, then repent and go to paradise. And the only real response to this apparent glaring flaw is "mysterious ways".

The end goal of Buddhism makes more sense to me. To escape the cycle altogether, accurately identifying the flawed nature of existence itself. And the very first lines openly state that mind/awareness is fundamental, which is also resonant with the truth.

Buddha did the intelligent thing and simply remained silent on those matters beyond our knowledge rather than making bold claims that could eventually be disproven. Obviously I'm not at all initiated at this point, but from what I have read so far, it seems to be the most timeless and self-consistent encapsulated metaphysical/spiritual framework I've ever seen outlined.
>It is literally just really, really smart dudes who sat around doing nothing but thinking for 1000's of years who wrote a manual on how the best way to do everything is
It is phenomenal. From my rough understanding so far: there's essentially 4 layers on which to interpret the guide?
1) basic morality/ethics/guidelines for living a good life
2) addressing the failings of common morality and resolving the apparent contradiction which we see where righteous suffer and wretched thrive in reality
3) addressing the final issue which is that even a "good" life is ultimately lacking/empty/devoid
4) escaping the cycle entirely

Do you have any further recommended reading?
Anonymous No.16779822 >>16780303
>>16774521
>It won't FIX OR compete with resistance training or cardio
Except the whole point of yoga style meditation that you can cause internal resistance in your muscles and you can increase your heart rate by thinking about it, focusing and concentrating on making it happen.
bodhi No.16779886 >>16779893
>>16779774
there are tons more books on Buddhist canon. When I said they write manuals, I mean it literally. They will have a glossary with every imaginable question you can ask and be like "I thought about this for 40 years and this is the best solution I came up with after reading what 100 other people who thought about it for 40 years came up with." Many of them read like care repair manuals "do this, then this because this then this" etc etc

get this book. It has stuff from tons of different texts that you can use to familiarize yourself with them to see if you might check them out in the future. You will want you I guarantee
https://www.amazon.com/Teachings-Buddha-Jack-Kornfield/dp/1590305086
bodhi No.16779887
>>16779774
the Japanese texts are the most autistic ones and the ones I personally enjoy the most.
bodhi No.16779893
I have read this book about 50 times btw >>16779886. As your consciousness and understanding grows you find you find new meanings you werent ready to understand previously. Some of the teachings in it are so cryptic (not on purpose however) I still dont fully understand them to this day. It is like a rubiks cube in a lot of ways, but also extremely accessible to any noob. People think geniuses go to college and study science to be some big wig name etc Nah, the greatest minds are now, and have always been tucked away in temples studying and meditating on this stuff and adding to the texts
bodhi No.16779897
>>16779774
>And the very first lines openly state that mind/awareness is fundamental, which is also resonant with the truth.

Now you know why they dont want you to read it
bodhi No.16779900
>>16779774
>Buddha did the intelligent thing and simply remained silent on those matters beyond our knowledge

"Sutra on Totality

Monks, I will teach you the totality of life. Listen, attend carefully to it and I will speak.

What, monks, is totality? It is just the eye with the objects of sight, the ear with the objects of hearing, the nose with the objects of smell, the body with the objects of touch, and the mind with the objects of cognition. This, monks, is called totality.

Now, if anyone were to say: "Aside from this explanation of totality, I will preach another totality," that person would be speaking empty words, and being questioned would not be able to answer. Why is this? Because that person is talking about something outside of possible knowledge."

From the Samyutta Nikaya,
Anonymous No.16780176
>>16774118 (OP)
Lifestyle changes aren’t what most people are willing to do and prefer some else to change or “fix” them for them psychology aren’t what most prescription doctors are trained in and drugs that change your mind are the easiest (and most profitable) path to take. But people forget that actually improving your life takes effort and your own work so they end in a dependence cycle of wanting someone else to give them some magic drug that changes them and makes it better, and since many (not all) doctors often have many patients just like them can’t put in the effort to help the person change and improve so they just give them what they ask for.
Anonymous No.16780276
>>16774272
What is an incomplete sentence evidence of?
Anonymous No.16780303
>>16779822
If that where true, Meditation into Mindfulness into control meditation would be a viable alternative to electrostimulation. Similarly there should be papers on Yoga as a signal affecter in combination with microdosing steroids, which also isn't true.

As said
Meditation is a alternative to a afternoon nap.
Extended mindfulness is not what you think it is, because it do not strain. And the confusion stems from wonder why some animals hve higher base muscle levels.
Anonymous No.16780355
>>16774118 (OP)
Capitalism
When everybody is healthy, who will pay their bills?
Anonymous No.16780476
>>16774118 (OP)
Doctors can only dispense the advice and medications they are instructed to provide. It's a very strict and narrow set of guidelines and rules. They are practicing within the confines of a very small box of ordained rules.
If they break from these rules they get punished severely, losing their license to practice medicine is but one comparotively minor punishment the could face
Anonymous No.16780668
>>16774118 (OP)
they want to keep us duuhmp. that is the only possible explanation, you see. Also they have to surpress our critical thinking, else the ADHD faggots would suddenly have normal execution functioning by just meditating! Promise to never tell *any of them* them, otherwise the secret pharma police will arrest you and make you work in a meth lab the rest of your lifes
Anonymous No.16780747
>>16774118 (OP)
Doctors don't have faith in people. You know how many patients they prescribe with meeting with a nutritionist, the patient meets with said nutritionist then proceeds to get McDonalds on the way home?

They feel the same way with a retard coming in with ADHD or Depression who constantly binges in their vices instead of slowing down and learning how to regulate their impulses and emotions. Some are even having panic attacks because of poor coping skills so they give them drugs to make them work. Also it could be that a lot of doctors are bought into medicine, I dated a girl who worked in one and when she told people she had a headache (nothing intense, something that will naturally go away on its on) multiple people told her to take a pill.
Anonymous No.16780749 >>16781122
People who are slow, calm, and happy are not productive cattle
Stimulants make you anxious, energetic, good, productive cattle
Anonymous No.16781122
>>16780749
stimulants make people with adhd more chill though