Thread 16782111

I'm an aspiring neurobiologist that has managed to piece together theories that I fully believe are correct, and these theories will lead to Schizophrenia being "cured".

I'm over the moon and excited about it, so I can't fucking stop thinking about it, and for that reason I want to discuss it with people!

If you don't care or believe me that's fine, just call me delusional or ignore this post, but if you believe me or are at all curious, ask whatever questions you have and I'll elaborate on my theories and explain how I plan to go about "curing" Schizophrenia!

>>16782111 (OP)
>(pic unrelated)
Is it tho?

>>16782116
How would it be related? Are you implying I'm a delusional Schizophrenic and what I'm saying is a delusion?

Or did I misunderstand?

>>16782111 (OP)
So is there a single mechanism or is it like cancer where there can be different pathways to the same result?

>>16782120
It's like cancer.

There are possibly dozens or hundreds of unique causes of Schizophrenia, and each unique cause requires a different unique treatment.

This is why antipsychotics are so hit or miss, every antipsychotic works on a different mechanism, and since there are so many mechanisms that can cause the symptoms, medications won't always target the right things and alleviate symptoms.

This is why some people are treatment resistant, while some only need 1 antipsychotic, and some require multiple antipsychotics.

>>16782126
Interesting. Cancer is damage to DNA at a basic level, what kind of neuronal damage or malformation causes schizophrenia?

>>16782127
There are dozens or possibly hundreds of different mechanisms that can cause Schizophrenia, but one of the common ones is "Receptor Dysfunction". That is, receptors in the brain, such as the Serotonin, Dopamine, or Glutamate receptors, are functioning incorrectly.

So, at least one, if not many forms of Schizophrenia, are rooted in dysfunction of receptors in the brain.

Unfortunately I'm passing out now and going to get some rest, but if this thread is somehow still alive when I wake I will continue to answer questions.

>>16782111 (OP)
>pic unrelated
Yes it fucking is. Don't lie to us. If you were telling the truth, you wouldn't have used the image.

>>16782117
>Are you implying I'm a delusional Schizophrenic and what I'm saying is a delusion?
Perhaps

>>16782111 (OP)
not saying anything about if you should or shouldn't, but would messing with brain structure mess with the identity of said person?
>but it's for the greater good of them and group
well...this opens up doors. can be applied to psychos as well

>>16782363
This theory applies to mental health as a whole. This will open up possibilities to permanently treat, and effectively "cure" dozens of mental illnesses. It's possible we'll also develop an ACTUAL cure for them one day, as it's possible that we can actually repair the underlying mechanisms responsible for said illnesses.

It's possible that this would slightly alter the person's personality/personhood, so they would of course need to consent to it, but personality is super complex and not specific to one part of the brain, so it would never COMPLETELY change a person, only slightly if it ever does.

>>16782133
How is it related? I know Lain is schizophrenic, so is that why it's related? I just like Lain and wasn't sure what image to use so I settled on posting her.

If me liking her and her being schizo makes the pic related, then sure, I guess it is related somewhat.

>>16782241
Well, I know for certain I am delusional. I want to be schizophrenic when I'm unmedicated, but when on antipsychotics I don't want to be schizophrenic.

So, it is GUARANTEED that I'm delusional, but this doesn't mean my ideas/theories on how to go about curing mental illness is also a delusion.

I've talked to lots of knowledgeable people, therapists, doctors, psychiatrists. All of them agree with my ideas and theories, which leads me to believe I am not delusional about this, and in fact correct.

>>16782724
It probably comes down to behavior that's bad for the society and at individual level, but even that is murky af. It can easily go wrong.
Plus I'm not sure at this point, that having a society full of "healthy" people is desired. I think the real state of things is way darker than this, apart from the whole public narrative.

>>16782729
LAIN IS NOT FUCKING SCHIZOPHRENIC
I HAVE A DSM RIGHT NEXT TO ME (even though it's not a diagnosis anymore) AND I KNOW FOR A FACT SHE ISN'T

>>16782738
It would be unethical to force these treatments on someone that doesn't consent, it would be entirely unethical. However, in certain cases, it would be a better option than locking up the dangerous people for the rest of their life, or potentially killing them.

>>16782741
Okay, maybe I was wrong. I've definitely heard theories and people claim she is schizophrenic, I just assumed it was true, but she may not be.

So how is Lain related to this if she's not schizophrenic?

>>16782778
>However, in certain cases, it would be a better option than locking up the dangerous people for the rest of their life, or potentially killing them.
I think you should read/watch A Clockwork Orange and you'll find this idea has been thoroughly considered.

>>16782111 (OP)
lmao gits chads stay winning, lainers stay whining. solipsists will literally never make it. op is in schizophrenic shambles
oh, and there are also serufu gigachads, these individuals shape all waifus with their dicks. shaping op like an onahole right now, not going to be easy for him

>>16782729
>I just like lain
You were supposed to grow up to realize the first anime you liked was fucking shit.

>>16782130
>this inheritable mental illness is.... caused by dysfunction of neurotransmitter receptors!
wow anon, you're really blowing away the competition here

>>16782111 (OP)

I Managed to cure my schizophrenia.
I had the Schizo-affective Manic type disorder.

only thing i cant smoke weed and i rather have to avoid all drugs, alcohol in moderation is fine.

i take my meds whenever i feel like it, with 3+ months of no meds at all.

All that while traveling a ton with my car, did like 25k miles in the last 12 months, never had any car accident.

have a remote IT job, currently a senior in my role, getting another job offer this month with a huge pay bump.

play the stock market, i read and learn a fuck ton, have a gf from a rich family.

if you manage to get your schizo under full control it gives you a kind of charm that is basically celebrity level type of charm.

i get served outside the queue, get free stuff, free services at different places etc.

It really is possible, it was tough as fuck and i actually did want to kill myself when i was a teenager.

Now i have a mortage and life is just begining for me.

>>16782111 (OP)
>Posts Lain
You didn't have to mention anything about schizophrenia, I already knew. At the very least try not to kill yourself.

>>16782962
I never said this is new information.

>>16782982
You already knew what? What are you trying to say, I have absolutely no clue...

>>16782111 (OP)
Pic is definitely related. Lain is an archetypal schizoid / schizotypal.

>>16782729
>I know Lain is schizophrenic
Wait, I thought she was a god? Or possibly a manifestation of the internet? Or both?

>>16782111 (OP)
You're retarded.

>>16783007
Okay, sure, pic is related.

>>16783008
My interpretation is all of the above. She was schizophrenic but ended up becoming a god somehow.

>>16783010
What makes me retarded?

>>16782111 (OP)
It’s easy just sell your soul to heal

>>16783015
>all of the above
I think I get it. Her schizophrenic status made her disassociated from humanity, thus an ideal vessel for digital godhood.

>>16782111 (OP)
>>16782126
>aspiring neurobiologist
>but also so functionally illiterate and unable to grasp middle school level English, that I incorrectly use double line spacing AND paragraph breaks after every single sentence
lel
Also
>provides ZERO evidence of claims regarding "cure"
>>>/x/

>>16783096
Yeah, that's about how I have interpreted the story of it.

>>16783104
It's just how I like to format my typing, what a weird thing to nitpick.

As for the zero evidence, what specifically do you want me to provide evidence of?

I will happily explain how we will go about curing them, and provide studies affirming my views.

Just ask a question so I can specify, because there's TONS of different pieces of "proof", I just want to know which part specifically you would like me to prove.

Do you just want a full explanation? I will happily provide one.

>>16782111 (OP)
i believe in drug psuchosis stone cold sober schizo is a lie

>>16782111 (OP)
The omniclamp is going to see you trying to cure schizophrenia, and clamp your cords. They clamp.

>>16783846
I mean, it's proven that it can be genetic.

There are some people that have never touched a drug in their life and still end up developing Schizophrenia, this proves it CAN be genetic. If you simply believe every single person in this camp is lying, then you're just being completely silly...

You are correct that it can be drug induced, it is also sometimes permanent in this scenario, meaning even once you're sober you'd still experience psychosis until medicated with antipsychotics.

>>16783929
Good luck catching me, Omniclamp!

>thread posted nearly 2 days ago
>OP has done nothing but attention whore

>>16782111 (OP)
>I'm going to "cure" Schizophrenia

I see. You must be a PANTS enjoyer.
https://www.ebi.ac.uk/interpro/entry/InterPro/IPR021475/

>>16784027
Alright, fine, here's a massive wall of text to explain lots of the science behind it.

It's very long so I will have to break it up into multiple messages.

Explanation:

There are multiple theories that are currently "proven and accepted" as the general consensus on the cause of Schizophrenia.

There are three theories I am referring to, the "link between Schizophrenia and Substance Use", the "Glutamate and Dopamine Theory" and the "Antipsychotic Induced Dopamine Supersensitivity".

I will give a brief explanation of these theories below, as well as a link to a single study that affirms these theories. I am only going to link a single study for each theory as they are well accepted by the scientific community, and finding other studies on the topics is very quickly done with a simple Google search. If you wish to get more in depth on the topics then you can do a simple Google search to find other studies to read and brush up on the theories mentioned.

Before I move on to the explanations, one other "proven and accepted" theory that I don't have a specific study for is that treatment for Schizophrenia is complex because medications work differently on people with Schizophrenia, even if they share the same symptoms. Two people suffering from Schizophrenia could share identical symptoms but still respond differently to the same medications. We also know that some people have "treatment resistant" Schizophrenia, and that no currently available medications will help their symptoms. This will be important when explaining my theories, so it was necessary to explain here even though I don't have studies to link. A quick google search will bring up what I mean, so despite not having any specific studies, it's well accepted and easy to look into!

>>16784060

1.) Link Between Schizophrenia and Substance Use:
This theory posits that those diagnosed with Schizophrenia and Psychotic Disorders should avoid drugs, especially those of a psychedelic nature, as using these drugs can temporarily and/or permanently worsen the psychotic symptoms.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6094954/

2.) Glutamate and Dopamine Hypothesis:
This theory posits that the underlying mechanism that causes Schizophrenia and it's symptoms is dysfunction of brain receptors.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6953551/

3.) Antipsychotic Induced Dopamine Supersensitivity:
This theory posits that some Schizophrenics experience "rebound psychosis" upon cessation of an antipsychotic medication, and that the cause of this is because long term use of antipsychotics both eliminates symptoms temporarily, while also worsening the neurological differences that cause Schizphrenic symptoms.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0028390819301571

My Theories:

1.) Schizophrenia isn't just worsened by drug use, but it can be directly caused (gained) by long term drug use.
As we know, psychotic symptoms are worsened by drugs. We also know that antipsychotics can worsen psychosis over time, despite the fact that it alleviates the symptoms while it's in your system. There are also some people living with Schizophrenia that fully believe they "gave themselves" Schizophrenia through long term drug use, but most doctors will say they're wrong. I believe these people are in fact correct, and that doctors are wrong and have misunderstood this phenomenon.

>>16784062

Moving on, the reason drugs can worsen psychosis is the same reason antipsychotics worsen psychosis with long term use. This is a result of receptor dysfunction in the brain. The drugs, while in your system, correct the "dysfunction" of the receptors they target, this is why they get rid of psychotic symptoms. At the same time, after long term use and cessation of the antipsychotic, the individual in question will experience worsened psychosis. This is because while it corrects the dysfunction of the receptor, it also means the receptor is now functioning differently. Through this "different" receptor function, the brain tries to adapt, and over time it alters these receptors making them more dysfunctional, as the brain is relying on a drug to function correctly. The drug causes it to function correctly, but because of neuroplasticity and how the brain adapts, it also ends up changing your brain chemistry over time, which worsens the underlying dysfunction, leading to worsened symptoms when medications are finally stopped.

2.) Receptor Dysfunction not only causes Schizophrenia, but also many other Mental Illnesses.
As we know, there are "comorbidities", that is, mental illnesses that are seen more often in the same individuals than they are separately. This is incredibly common and seen among dozens of mental illnesses, which suggest they share an underlying mechanism. We know that receptor dysfunction causes psychotic symptoms, and that some other mental illnesses are more common among those with Schizophrenia. This suggests that the underlying dysfunction that causes Schizophrenia is also the same underlying cause for some other illnesses that are "comorbid" with Schizophrenia. It's likely that many other illnesses such as ODC, Delusional Disorders, and possibly even Dementia/Alzheimers share some of the same mechanisms, and would be partially treatable similar to how Schizophrenia is treated, with antipsychotics.

>>16784063

3.) Schizophrenia has Dozens or Hundreds of "Subtypes" that should be individually classified to improve treatment of the disease. Doctors moving away from classifying Schizophrenia into subtypes has done more harm than good, and we should work on bringing that concept back. It's likely that Delusional Disorders, OCD, and possibly other Mental Illnesses are effectively "subtypes" of Schizophrenia, as they share at least 1 underlying mechanism:"
As previously explained, Schizophrenia is caused by receptor dysfunction. The accepted theories talk about dysfunction of multiple receptors all contributing to Schizophrenia, but I have a related but different theory. There are potentially dozens or hundreds of different receptors that can cause psychotic symptoms, and in some cases only one type of receptor is experiencing dysfunction. This is why I say there are dozens or hundreds of subtypes of Schizophrenia.

Two people experiencing Schizophrenia with the same symptoms, their symptoms could be a result of dysfunction from completely different receptors. Someone experiencing hallucinations might have dysfunction of their Serotonin receptors, while another person with these symptoms instead has dysfunction of their Dopamine receptors. So my theory posits that there are potentially dozens or hundreds of subtypes of Schizophrenia, because there are potentially hundreds of different receptors that can cause these symptoms.

This theory is affirmed by the fact that antipsychotics are so hit or miss, the fact that some people need multiple antipsychotics, and the fact that sometimes people are entirely treatment resistant.

People only needing 1 antipsychotic, there already exists a medication that works on the receptors causing this persons Schizophrenia.

>>16784065

People needing multiple antipsychotics have dysfunction of multiple receptors, and until all of them are treated then the symptoms persist. So unless we find a medication targeting all of their dysfunctional receptors, they made need multiple drugs that work individually on each the many different receptors that are dysfunctional.

People that are entirely treatment resistant, we just haven't found a medication that targets their dysfunctional receptors yet. So we just need to keep discovering and studying more drugs until we find some that target the receptors of the person that is "treatment resistant". So it's possible, and likely, that one day we will have identified every cause of all subtypes of Schizophrenia, and will have developed drugs that target only those receptors, leading to "perfected" treatment, allowing us to eliminate all symptoms, effectively curing them, just with a requirement of lifetime treatment with medication.

TL:DR;
Lots of mental illnesses share an underlying mechanism, an example being dysfunction of the Dopamine receptors in the brain. We will soon develop the technology to single out these "underlying causes" via scans of the brain. From there we go immediately to specific medications that target that unique underlying cause, meaning no one will need to potentially try multiple or even dozens of different medications to find one that works (if any do). We simply scan their brain, then we already know which meds will work for them based on which ones directly work on the underlying mechanism causing their symptoms, assuming we have a medication that does target the cause of their disease.

This is the route to curing mental illness. I'm not saying it will happen tomorrow, or even in the next ten years, but once we develop the technology to single out the causes of the disease, then we can directly treat the cause, assuming we have a medication that works on it.

>>16784066

So basically, we need to start developing brain scans that can single out specific brain receptors and things that can be causes of mental illness.

Once we have this technology we can do targeted treatment that will be effective *the first time* instead of taking multiple or even dozens of attempts to treat the person in question.

Again, we don't have this technology yet, but once we do, mental illness will effectively be "cured", and not even just Schizophrenia, but MOST mental illness will be treatable to the point of being effectively "cured".

It's also possible one day we will discover drugs that repair the damaged parts of the brain that cause symptoms. This is even further off in the future, but it means there's a possibility we could actually FULLY cure most, if not all mental illnesses.

>>16784069
Are you talking about electroshock therapy?

>>16784069
I could waste my time trying to make you realilze and admit that you've not read even 0.01% of all the scientific literature relevant to this, but then again, you will never act on your dreams so it doesn't matter if your hypotheses don't align with reality.

>>16784484
No, not to my understanding. I don't know much about electroshock therapy aside from the basics, but my hunch is that it's just a form of abuse still accepted by the medical community as a form of treatment, because it makes the ill person more docile and easy to deal with for other people, or society as a whole.

It's possible electroshock does actually help alleviate some symptoms, so it's possible it COULD be a potentially helpful form of treatment, but my gut feeling is that electroshock therapy is like lobotomies, something that's been accepted because it makes dealing with the ill patient easier for society.

If electroshock therapy does actually target some of these underlying mechanisms, it is possible it is a helpful treatment for SOME people, but my gut feeling is electroshock is just a legal form of abuse still accepted by the medical community.

I'm mostly referring to medications, but it's likely some forms of therapy like talk therapy (and possibly electroshock) will be the ideal treatment for SOME people with mental illness, but even if that's true a majority of the time it probably worsens peoples symptoms, as it's targeting the wrong part of the brain (in most patients, but not all patients).

>>16784492
I know I haven't even read 0.01% of all scientific literature, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong. All the literature I've provided, and every single piece I've ever read and studied, directly affirms all my theories on how we can cure mental illness.

Do you have any evidence disproving my theories, or do you just not believe me? I've provided lots of evidence for you to look into, so if you don't want to believe me that's your choice, but it doesn't make me wrong.

>>16784066
>>16784069
>People that are entirely treatment resistant, we just haven't found a medication that targets their dysfunctional receptors yet.
Correct

But lets add more cogs and wrenches
1. Worn
2. Burnt out
3. Childhood defect
4. Gene defect
Another cog is that since you have incorrect brain chemistry, they might be living a diluted life in a destructive manner, meaning llong term self destruction such as constant panic attacks leading to poor sleep, and then poor sleep leading to completely breaking circadian rhythm anchor.

A even worse problem is that there is no reliable way to get brain samples, so you can verify.
Similarly the doctor could give you a drug, but it could also just target your healthy receptors and fry you.

>>16784612
>Do you have any evidence disproving my theories
You could start by posting your theory, which you won't do.
If you do, then a critical part is also talking about HOW a cure is going to work on that framework.

I.e
prediabetes type 2 is "technically" curable by doing any form of keto diet, but that in itself isn't useful if you can't find out how many months, what diet, how to suppress the hunger for popcorn/bread/rice/pizza, and how to improve fixing it via exercise or drugs.

>>16784665
Oh absolutely, these are the issues we need to solve before we reach a point we can effectively treat/cure these mental illnesses.

We don't currently have the brain scans to isolate pathways to these mental illnesses, we need to invest heavily into research that tries to develop scans that can fulfill these needs.

Along with that, we also don't have drugs that will target every pathway yet, so even with brain scans alone, that doesn't mean everyone will be able to get treated.

In some cases you would scan someone's brain, isolate the cause of their symptoms, then we would be able to tell which medications work. In many cases it's possible we don't have the drugs developed yet to target the cause of these people's symptoms.

This is why we need to heavily invest into both, brain scans to identify underlying causes, and new medications to find more treatments for the underlying causes.

So basically, to get to this point, we need both brain scans and potentially hundreds or thousands of new medications to treat all of the differing underlying causes.

This is why I say it will take time and lots of investment, there's TONS of research to be done to develop the appropriate brain scans and medications, but it's ABSOLUTELY POSSIBLE, and is something the medical community is currently moving towards.

As for my theories, I did post about all of them in the above messages. It's possible all these theories already exist, but I had never seen these theories espoused by doctors, through my extensive decade of self motivated research.

So, it's possible these theories already exist, I may not be the first person to have realized all of these things, but I just haven't seen them be the "general consensus" of the medical community.

Maybe I just haven't looked in the right areas, and these theories are already being adopted, but I haven't seen them be a held belief.

>>16784665
As for my theories that may or may not be new, I'll link to all the comments that explain the full depth of them. Read through all of the following posts/comments and you'll be able to see my "theories", then you can tell me if they're new or not.

Trying to link to all the comments is marking my post as spam, so I'll just post the last digits of the post numbers and you can scroll up and read through them in order.

Post Numbers (Last 4 Digits):
4060
4062
4063
4065
4066

All of these posts explain the "general consensus" of the medical community, as well as all of what I believe is my "new theories". It's possible my theories aren't new, but I have yet to see them be talked about by medical professionals in any capacity. I may have just looked in the wrong areas, and people already are talking about this stuff, but from my extensive research I believe I'm the first person (or one of the first) to come to these conclusions on how we're going to cure mental illness.

I also think it's interesting that I have developed all this knowledge and theories without any formal education on the subject. I'm literally just someone interested in schizophrenia and mental health that has spent the past decade reading and looking into studies on the subject, motivated by my own interest in the subject. I have zero formal education, so if I'm one of the first people to have every come to these conclusions, with a lack of formal education, then I think that's really cool (and shows I'm highly intelligent, if not a genuis).

It's like if some random person that wasn't Einstein had also come up with the same theorems as him that made people declare him "a genuis", without any input from Einstein himself. That would also mean the person that came up with these theories is a genuis, just like Einstein.

>>16782111 (OP)
In your model, what is the relationship to autism and adhd? i.e. common factors, common phenomena, comorbid occurrence?

What role does stress play? And the autonomous nervous system?

Please do not take my autism away please. The ADHD, you can have tho! And the depression stuff, which is likely related to your theories when talking about serotonin and dopamine receptors.

>>16783978
any type of medication can cause drug psychosis not just rec drugs i really dont be believing is sober schizo

>>16784690
I haven't extensively looked into Autism or ADHD, I would first need to look at comorbidity with Schizophrenia and those statistics to determine what things have possible mechanisms shared with Schizophrenia. I know that Autism at first was thought to be a form of Schizophrenia, so it's quite possible they have some underlying mechanisms, but I haven't studied that specific thing at moment. Same thing for ADHD, I haven't studied specific comorbidities with Schizophrenia yet, I'd have to look into it to know if ADHD possibly shares some underlying mechanisms.

Stress is known to worsen psychosis, and we know stress can also lead to things like Depression. It's likely that some autoimmune disorders can lead to development of mental illness, like Depression, Schizophrenia, and probably many others. I just don't know which ones as again, I haven't looked into this stuff yet.

>>16784690
It must always be consensual, forcing medication on anyone for any reason is unethical. In some cases if they're a danger they need to be locked up for the safety of people around them, possibly even theirself, but they should never be forcefully administered medication without their consent. That's how I feel about it, treatment should always be consensual, so if you like having Autism, which I completely support and understand, then you don't need to get treatment for it.

>>16784752
(fail on my part)
thanks for the answer!

If you cure schizophrenia, who's going to post here?

OP. You are a not neurobiologist. Drugs would not fix the problem. You would have to rewire the neurons.

>>16784755
Happy to answer your questions! I love talking about this stuff because it's super interesting to me and I genuinely want to work towards becoming qualified so I can help progress the research into these sorts of things.

>>16784766
Good point...

>>16784769
If that were true we wouldn't see drugs sometimes put people into complete remission of certain disorders. It's possible there are some versions of disorders caused by neuron wiring, but there's at least a large chunk of these disorders caused by receptor dysfunction, which is treatable with drugs. Not everyone will have the same version of a disorder, so some might need neuronal rewiring, but it's well recorded that a large chunk of these disorders consist of receptor dysfunction specifically.

Then wouldn’t the true fix be genetic and/or epigenetic treatment?

>>16784792
A true cure, yes. It's likely that this is possible, but it's likely much further off in the future. I don't study eipgenetic treatments so I don't know how advanced they are, but it's possible we will develop a way to fully heal the dysfunctional receptors.

Interesting read, thanks

>>16782111 (OP)
there is no cure for schizophrenia its metaphysical nigga

>>16784807
Just make a cure for stupidity instead, schizos are chill.

>>16784837
If you really believe this, you sound delusional.

>>16784861
I agree Schizophrenic people are chill, but many of them are suffering and want treatment. No one should have treatment forced on them, but many of them want to not struggle with psychosis and the negative symptoms associated with it.

>>16784864
do monkeys have schiziophrenia since the cause is low iq and small brain volume? high iq people 85+ dont get it

>>16782111 (OP)
Lethal injections

>>16784872
This is completely false. Psychosis lowers IQ while it's present, but only as a side effect of the Psychosis. This is why we see Schizophrenic people have their IQ go up when they're getting proper, effective treatment.

High IQ people absolutely do get Schizophrenia, in fact there's even a subtype of Schizophrenia that seems to be only seen in "high IQ" individuals. The mean IQ of these individuals presenting with a seemingly unique subtype of Schizophrenia was an IQ of 120.

This would suggest that one possible underlying mechanism that can cause Schizophrenia is also somehow related to intelligence.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25752725/

>>16784874
You should consider killing yourself. Thanks.

>>16784069
>guys I cured schizophrenia
>we just need to invent new types of brain scans and then invent new types of drugs and treatments
>I'm a genius

>>16784933
I never said I cured Schizophrenia, I said I'm going to.

I'm a genuis for coming up with the theories, we can't make the scientific progress if we don't know how. It's possible some people already have all this knowledge/theories, but I haven't seen them talked about. Theories are always the starting point, without this knowledge it would be impossible to develop a cure.

All I'm saying is that a cure is possible, and that I'm going to dedicate my life to researching and helping develop the required technologies and medications that will make curing Schizophrenia and other mental illnesses possible.

>Midwit reading research papers assuming the answer is already there
>Also allergic to leaving his chair
I don't know what I was expecting, but I am in the end disappointed.

>>16785226
>reading research papers assuming the answer is already there

Are you saying that this is already common knowledge, or that I'm wrong?

>>16785234
Its merely failing the empiricism smell taste. And you are treating research papers like they are the Akashic Records.

>>16785236
When there are dozens of research papers affirming the same thing, it's more than likely that what the papers claim is in fact true. I only linked one paper for a few different things, but I've read dozens or more papers on each of the topics. I have yet to find even a single paper that goes against what I believe.

Smell can be helpful for experiences and learning things, but it's not essential, in fact a majority of the time it doesn't provide any empirical evidence.

>>16785259
Empiricism smell test is not what you think.
A family doctor can after having some complaints about fatigue identify several normal variants, just by drawing some blood. Anon reading papers on the interwebs can't. The family doctor can replicate the core of the research under empirical mechanisms, which is why there is still a lot of prestige going into the medical profession.

You are more likely going to have a better hobby if you go away from what can't be verified by high end specialized equipment, into something where you do.
Doesn't really matter if its automobiles, painting, ceramics, cooking, bates method, etc.

I just entered the thread. Can someone concisely tell me if OP is actually onto something or is he like the moe link I attached?
https://files.catbox.moe/bc03fq.mp4

>>16785289
He is just a Scientific paper reader.
You are better of listening to Bryan Liver Skill Issue Johnsen.

>>16784889
The link you shared just talked about how the people picked for the study were all assumed to have "schizophrenia" with a slightly higher IQ with the conclusion that there is a possibility that higher IQ people can get "schizophrenia". It doesn't get out of the circular logic of psychiatry and doesn't say anything about your claims of the first paragraph, that were conveniently told for how many years?

>>16784889
* I forgot to tell you that you contradicted yourself with your first paragraph and the link you shared. According to the study, negative symptoms lowered cognitive functions, while positive symptoms were independent of it. Medication worsens negative symptoms, what are you getting at?

>>16785268
It was my first time hearing of the "smell empiricism" thing, so I did a quick google search, I probably misunderstood what the test is meant to mean/prove.

I know I'm not a doctor yet, but I wish to pursue this with my life so I can help progress the industry and help get us to a point where mental illness is partially, or mostly, "cured", as in having treatments that eliminate all symptoms and put the individual into remission as long as they continue treatment. It's not a true cure, but it's effectively the same thing.

This is something I've been obsessed with for over a decade, I want to pursue it with my life. I know lots of progress needs to be made to get to this point of "effectively curing mental illness", but I want to be one of the ones that helps get us to that point. It's the thing that I'm more interested in, more than anything else.

>>16785415
Not all medications worsen negative symptoms. In many cases they do, but there are some people undergoing treatment that have cessation of both positive and negative symptoms. It's less common, but it absolutely does happen.

My understanding is that for these individuals we've found a medication that specifically targets their underlying causes of their symptoms, without targeting other areas. It just means we're targeting the correct areas without damaging other parts of the brain.

>>16785326
It's not a possibility that high IQ people can Schizophrenia, it's recorded and proven. We can't say for certain yet if some causes of Schizophrenia are also linked to intelligence, but it would make sense given all the study explains.

Schizophrenics can have a high IQ, it's just not completely confirmed if there is a "high IQ" subtype of Schizophrenia, or if it's just a coincidence that some Schizphrenic people have higher IQ.

It could be either, but I believe there is a subtype of Schizophrenia at least related to intelligence, as it is caused by some of the same mechanisms that cause intelligence.

>>16782111 (OP)
I finally watched Lain due to seeing the OP picrel again and again in the catalog for the past few days
wtf is this shit?

>>16782111 (OP)
I don't know enough about the theory of mental disorders, but is schizophrenia actually caused by biological problems or it is ultimately an altered state of consciousness that "got stuck"?

How do we know that neurotransmitter disbalance causes schizophrenia and not vice versa?

And in either case, why is it considered a good thing to treat schizophrenics with antipsychotics?

Because AFAIK there are non-medical treatments to schizophrenia (like Soterias) and I've got an impression (maybe read this somewhere) that it's suppression of psychosis (and extreme and "unhealthy" psychic reactions in general) that causes mental illnesses to progress.

>>16785443
Are you suggesting that Schizophrenia has no biological cause, and it somehow just "happens"? That's like... a very ridiculous thing to believe, but yes we do have overwhelming evidence that all mental illness, including Schizphrenia, is rooted in neurological differences.

Sometimes autoimmune disorders and environmental factors can trigger mental illness, but in a large majority of cases there's actual neurological differences. Some cases of Depression are environmental, the stress of real life can cause chemical imbalances that result in Depression, but it can be originally caused by the environment.

Not all mental illness is genetic, some is environmental, but regardless of the source, it ends up causing neurological changes that result in the symptoms. The symptoms HAVE to come from somewhere, they can't just "happen" for no reason.

Some Schizphrenics undergoing treatment experience complete remission, this can include remission of both positive (psychotic) and negative symptoms (hygiene issues, motivational issues). It is rare, but it does happen for some people.

Antipsychotics are likely not the only treatment for Schizophrenia, but a large chunk of recorded Schizophrenia cases seem to be caused by receptor dysfunction.

As I said, it's possible *some* forms of Schizophrenia are caused by mechanisms that are resolved entirely through talk therapy or other types of therapy, but it's more than likely an overwhelming chunk of Schizophrenics have receptor dysfunction as a cause of their illness.

So again, antipsychotics aren't the *only* possible effective treatment, just in most cases drugs are required because our current therapies can't treat the underlying causes.

It's possible we'll develop lots of therapies in the future that can somehow "heal" or at least temporarily "fix" dysfunctional receptors, but it's likely most cases will require medication for treatment.

>>16785443
I'm interested in the idea of "suppression of psychosis can lead to mental illnesses". It sounds unlikely, but absolutely something worth looking into.

It's more likely that in these cases, the negative symptoms of Schizophrenia remain, and these symptoms can be likened to mental illnesses. It's also likely that negative symptoms of Schizophrenia can still get worse over time, even when the positive symptoms are treated. I would assume this is because in most cases, treatment only negates positive symptoms (maybe the positive and negative symptoms come from different mechanisms), and negative symptoms over time can get worse, leading to other mental illnesses that are not psychotic in nature. Things like Depression or ADHD, it would make sense if the negative symptoms still being present can lead to the development of these disorders, or even worsing a pre-existing condition.

You're possibly onto something, I will definitely look into it at some point, but my hunch is that it's more nuanced than you made it out to be, and it's not the treatment itself worsening the symptoms.

As for Soterias... Is that just a Greek goddess or am I just not seeing what you're meaning to refer to?

I don't know what Soterias is so I can't comment on if it's a possible treatment for mental health/Schizophrenia, but I know there are "non-medication" based treatments that are having increasing evidence.

One such treatment is a Ketogenic diet, obviously as explained there are dozens of causes of Schizophrenic symptoms, and Ketogenic diets don't work for ALL causes, but there is evidence that some people with Schizophrenia enter complete remission after adopting a Ketogenic diet.

This would imply that one such cause of Schizophrenia is actually based in the diet and digestive system somehow. For people with these issues causing their Schizophrenic symptoms (which seems to be a rarer subtype) Ketogenic diets can lead to partial or complete remission of symptoms.

>>16785451
>Are you suggesting that Schizophrenia has no biological cause, and it somehow just "happens"?
I personally think (and IDK how bullshit it is) that brain work over its biological problems if some kind of "subconscious reflection" isn't blocked and the biological problems don't "break" half the neurons or something (and even in such cases it may work).

>but yes we do have overwhelming evidence that all mental illness, including Schizphrenia, is rooted in neurological differences
Can you link me some papers on that?

>Not all mental illness is genetic, some is environmental, but regardless of the source, it ends up causing neurological changes that result in the symptoms. The symptoms HAVE to come from somewhere, they can't just "happen" for no reason.
I don't disagree that neurological changes *exist*.

>It's possible we'll develop lots of therapies in the future that can somehow "heal" or at least temporarily "fix" dysfunctional receptors, but it's likely most cases will require medication for treatment.
I'm a layman in this field, but I don't understand how one can really fix mental illnesses by altering chemical signal transmission in the whole brain?
Isn't that alike to altering a FPGA firmware (or a program for 9999 core CPU) to disallow writing 0x81 anywhere into RAM no matter what that value actually represents?

>>16785457
>As for Soterias... Is that just a Greek goddess or am I just not seeing what you're meaning to refer to?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soteria_(psychiatric_treatment)

(Will continue in other message)

>>16785457
> I'm interested in the idea of "suppression of psychosis can lead to mental illnesses". It sounds unlikely, but absolutely something worth looking into.
It's an extrapolation of my understanding of my own psychology.
Basically, if you "lock out" traumatic memories, they will eventually re-emerge in some altered form (if they are not so niche you won't see anything 0.001% similar or related in the whole life).
Memories themselves (in wide sense, including, e.g., skills) "want" to integrate into conscious behaviour.

If you lock yourself out from less drastic or socially acceptable ways of interacting with memories (I think one of notable levels of "locking out" is ignoring invasive thoughts instead of trying to understand them), eventually you will get socially unacceptable things (like hallucinations or voices that force you to do or not do things).

It seems that there is a some kind of the ultimate "I'm done with you ignoring everything related to [traumatic memory], now go ~~fuck yourself~~ experience it in real time" response from subconscious. That would probably 95% overlap with common definition of psychosis.

Or maybe psychosis is what you get when you lock yourself out from so many things that you lock yourself out of every way doing everyday actions, so to not die from hunger (or what's your fundamental motivations are) the mind as a whole forces the conscious mind to experience traumatic memories to unlock (what it considers) essential skills back.

In some cultures (most first- and second world countries' ones, I think) psychosis (or specific mental illnesses) are considered such an inacceptible thing that some people will "fight it back".

And the more person fights back this process (the more he blocks everything related to psychotic experience), the more urgent it becomes for subconscious to *force* conscious mind to fully experience that what causes the experience.

That's my maybe-bullshit-ish IMHO.

>>16785469
So basically, everyone with Schizophrenia gained it via trauma, and that by "denying" or "blocking out" the trauma, the brain responds by triggering psychosis to try and process the trauma that you're ignoring?

That doesn't sound impossible, it could definitely be a subsection of Schizophrenia or mental illness as a whole, that trauma and ignoring it can lead to development of these disorders. It definitely makes sense, I would just assume it's once again, only a small subsection of the cases of Schizophrenia.

So, you're probably onto something! Though it definitely doesn't account for every case of psychosis/Schizophrenia.

Fixing chemical transmissions that cause the symptoms will lead to remission, for the patients that have symptoms caused by this issue. Since we know that at least a large chunk of Schizophrenics are dealing with receptor dysfunction, it makes sense that "fixing" or even temporarily treating this dysfunction will lead to partial or complete remission.

I have no clue about your analogy with FPGA firmware, sorry.

As for Soterias, those sound wonderful! I've actually spent a few months in a similar situation myself, a house with mental health patients all living together, receiving therapy and treatment, and getting taken care of by having meals provided and stuff like that.

They absolutely can be very helpful for treating mental illness, and lots of people that require a stronger support system would benefit from it, but not everyone is disabled enough to require that level of support. It's a great option for people that are though.

>>16785488
So this is an extrapolation of your earlier point that "repressing trauma" can lead to psychosis and other mental illnesses? I definitely agree with the initial point, but I'm not entirely convinced and would like to see research and studies looking into this specific topic.

>>16785488
An interesting point, there are cultures where Schizophrenia presents differently. Schizophrenia is a reflection of your subsconscious, so in cultures where spirituality is common and accepted, Schizophrenia presents with less negative and persecutory delusions and hallucinations.

Someone that grew up exposed to Hindu or Buddhist beliefs will more often than not have hallucinations and delusions that are less "terrifying" and more just based in spirituality and being able to speak with ghosts/spirits, instead of being "persecuted by god" or "being cursed".

>>16785511
>So basically, everyone with Schizophrenia gained it via trauma, and that by "denying" or "blocking out" the trauma, the brain responds by triggering psychosis to try and process the trauma that you're ignoring?
I don't think that happens for all cases of schizophrenia, but I think that this mechanism can on its own explain most of the cases.

>I definitely agree with the initial point, but I'm not entirely convinced and would like to see research and studies looking into this specific topic.
I can compare it to DID alter sub-personalities, if there is no personality left in sub-personality, only function, and the function is developed to such extent that true hallucinations and other delusions happen to implement it.
https://did-research.org/did/alters/functions

>>16785511
>I have no clue about your analogy with FPGA firmware, sorry.
Let's take a brain-computer analogy (however faulty it is).
You have a embedded computer (~brain) operating a robot (~body).
You have a program running on it (~mind).
The program is faulty, it misdetects things (~person has delusions/hallucinates).
The program transform data represented as bytes (~neural networks transform data represented as electrical potentials, neurotransmitter concentrations, whatever way short- and long-term memories are represented (at least neuron connection pattern + per-neuron epigenetic memory)).
You modify the CPU so each time the program gets, say, byte 0x81 (as a part of a number, or a text string, or a pixel color from the camera, or from anywhere else), it works as if it was 0x82. (~You alter all the, say, dopamine receptors in the brain so, say, they detect ten times more dopamine then there really is).

Such a low-level non-selective measure can't fix a higher-level bug by itself.
(~I suppose there is no "neuron of schizophrenia" or "neurotransmitter of schizophrenia", so the measure is of lower level than the mental issue resides at. I suppose you aren't pairing the drug with smart nanomachines that makes the drug affect only schizophrenia-related neurons or just specific regions of brain, so there is no selectivity.)

>>16785516
> An interesting point, there are cultures where Schizophrenia presents differently.
Moreso, in some cultures/countries specific symptoms of schizophrenia just don't appear.
Maybe this was about Brazil schizophrenics never having voice hallucinations, maybe about something else, but IIRC it was something of *this* extent.

> Someone that grew up exposed to Hindu or Buddhist beliefs will more often than not have hallucinations and delusions that are less "terrifying" and more just based in spirituality and being able to speak with ghosts/spirits, instead of being "persecuted by god" or "being cursed".
And consider shamanic illness (which, to a high degree, *is* schizophrenia) together with shamanic initiation (which, if successful, converts it into mostly-controlled hallucinations together with a specific form of DID).

>>16785565
It wouldn't be using nanomachines, yeah. It would be using brain scans as a diagnostic tool, then targeted medications as "optimal treatment".

I think I get your analogy, but from my studying Schizophrenia, at least the more common forms of it, exist on the same "level" as receptors, so something as simple as a drug that causes receptors to be active, or temporarily shuts them off.

It's possible there are subtypes of Schizophrenia on different "levels" of the brain, so we should absolutely look into other methods of treatment, such as Ketogenic diets for those that it can mitigate or eliminate symptoms from.

>>16785567
Yeah, shamans are quite often on the psychosis spectrum somewhere. It makes sense that some forms of Schizophrenia can lead to developing other illnesses, like DID.

i have 3 schizo theories that i think are true. i made a thread about 1 of them.

1/ because of the nature of wave collapse you can change the colour of a light source by having more people look at it.
2/ we are all living in our own separate moment in time since time is relativistic. so when you talk to someone you're talking to their body but it's just a remnant and they are not there with you.
3/ when you look in the mirror and it is flipped horizontally but not vertically that is because you imagine your mirror image rotated about the y axis but not the x axis because that's how humans naturally turn. if you imagine yourself being rotated about your x axis your reflection would appear to be upside down.

>>16784889
you're dumb as fuck high iq people dont get any mental disorder except for slight bipolar that happens at the upper end of iq which aids in emotional stability thats about it holy shit you are one retarded regurgitated of public information negro esque faggot

>>16785511
You have the problem that there are 4 competing systems:
1. The brains pattern recognition
2. The chemical balance of the brain
3. Ego/Id/Thymos/etc
4.. Sensory input

If this is true, then what is hallucinations not being capped to the subconscious?

>>16785936
I love when people are blatantly wrong, and completely ignoring science.

Have a great day my dude, try not to step on any Legos or stub your toe!

>>16786045
Hallucinations can possibly be caused by dysfunction of multiple different "levels" of the brain.

It's not just possible, but likely, that there are causes of Schizophrenia that aren't receptor dysfunction.

If this is true, which it seems to be, this means it's likely that some hallucinations and Schizophrenia symptoms can be caused by a chemical imbalance or other things.

I don't mean to say all hallucinations and Schizophrenia comes from receptor dysfunction, but we have proven that at least a decent amount of them are caused by this.

Is this related to other issues like epilepsy? According to you both are cured by keto? Is it all related to gut?

>>16787162
I have not studied Epilepsy at all, and I never meant to make the claim it's cured by a ketogenic diet. I was only referring to some cases of Schizophrenia being shown to be affected by diet.

>>16782111 (OP)
What's the general process by which you research/derive a cure for mental illnesses? Mine is c-ptsd, should the specifics be relevant.
What specific technologies are necessary to derive these cures?
What types of technologies are necessary and/or would greatly assist deriving these cures, that is currently not in existence? (I'm an engineering major. :])
>>16784069
>brain scans that can single out specific brain receptors and things that can be causes of mental illness.
Name me one case study of this. Or, a proof demonstrating a theory that it is possible. And/or an example on how to reproduce such an experiment.
>>16784612
>electroshock does actually help alleviate some symptoms, so it's possible it COULD be a potentially helpful form of treatment
lol
Yeah, let's start torturing people so they get in line. Surely that will help.
>>16784671
Since you mentioned a dementia comorbism, is it possible to examine the physical brains of such patients post-mortem? And compare them to a control post-mortem patient. Or vary both Alzheimer's and schizophrenic post-mortem brains.
Too, inducing schizophrenia in rats to study these post-mortem pathways on a macro level.
>>16785451
>>16785511
>So basically, everyone with (illness) gained it via (it varies)
>...and that by "denying" or "blocking out"
>..the brain responds by triggering psychosis to try and process the (illness) that you're ignoring?
Yes. This is the case for most, if not all, emotional repression. Easiest to understand example are anger issues. If you bury your anger for too long, with no outlet, it will inevitably explode. This is generally accepted as common knowledge.
A better analogy for this is the immune system. Since it is functionally the same as your analogy (immune system wants to protect body, misidentifies threat, attacks false threat leading to dysfunction). Also because it is a biological process, giving precedence to the brain's "immune system"/stress response having similar functions.

>>16788494
lol, its not clear what this last bit is in reference to, so here:
>A better analogy for this is the immune system. Since it is functionally the same as your analogy (immune system wants to protect body, misidentifies threat, attacks false threat leading to dysfunction). Also because it is a biological process, giving precedence to the brain's "immune system"/stress response having similar functions.
Is in refrence to
>>16785565
Also for the rats I mean a "micro", not "macro" level. Kek my bad.

>>16788494
>What's the general process by which you research/derive a cure for mental illnesses?
The general process depends on if you're talking about a genuine cure, or just a treatment that puts people into complete remission. A treatment putting someone into remission isn't a "true" cure, but it would allow them to live symptom free as long as they receive treatment. To do this you would need to:

- Isolate underlying cause(s), either via advanced brain scans that we currently don't have, or via a process of elimination drawing information from what effects all the medications have had on the patient.
- Use treatment targeting underlying cause(s) of illness to put patient into remission, or to cure the underlying cause(s).

As for a "true" cure, we would need medicine so advanced that we can target it to bind to specific receptors and heal them in the required way, allowing them to function normally, and eliminating the symptoms permanently. This is very far in the future, as we'd quite literally be targeting and repairing all of the damaged braincells of specific types.

>What specific technologies are necessary to derive these cures?
We don't need any technology to improve treatment from the guess-work we currently use. Technology would help streamline and speed up the process, but we can do it without any brain scans.

The technology that would help speed things up significantly is brain scans that can target specific receptors and identify how they are functioning in the patient. That's something PET scans are supposedly capable of, I just don't know enough about them to say if they can give the specific information we would require to treat mental illnesses.

>Name me one case study of this. Or, a proof demonstrating a theory that it is possible. And/or an example on how to reproduce such an experiment.
I don't have any studies as I haven't yet looked into any brain scans that exist that may be possible of giving the necessary information about receptors.

>>16788494
>Yeah, let's start torturing people so they get in line. Surely that will help.
You cut off my sentence where I said "It's possible", I never said "It absolutely does help with symptoms." Learn to read a sentence in it's entirety please.

I am well aware electroshock is super controversial, and I don't support it, I was simply stating I don't know enough about it to say whether it actually ever has any tiny amount of benefit.

Whether a therapy is helpful or not, no one should ever be forced to undergo a treatment without their informed consent. Immediately jumping to assuming that I'm suggesting we torture people so they get in line is ridiculous. Ethics are super important to me, so stop being an asshat and assuming I want to fucking lobotomize people.

>Since you mentioned a dementia comorbism, is it possible to examine the physical brains of such patients post-mortem? And compare them to a control post-mortem patient. Or vary both Alzheimer's and schizophrenic post-mortem brains.
Too, inducing schizophrenia in rats to study these post-mortem pathways on a macro level.
I haven't studied Dementia, I just know it's more common in people with Schizophrenia. This suggests at least one subtype of Schizophrenia shares an underlying mechanism with Dementia in some way.

Post mortem brain scans are one of the main ways we research the neurological differences and potential causes of brain disorders. We absolutely could study brains of people suffering from these illnesses, but you'd probably need their explicit consent pre-mortem.

The reason we use mice/rats is because they're so much more accessible, we can just buy a few, dose them with drugs to induce the changes we're seeking to study, then kill them and study their brain. Working with human brains is incredibly complex due to all the laws surrounding human organs.

>>16788494
>Since you mentioned a dementia comorbism, is it possible to examine the physical brains of such patients post-mortem? And compare them to a control post-mortem patient. Or vary both Alzheimer's and schizophrenic post-mortem brains.
Too, inducing schizophrenia in rats to study these post-mortem pathways on a macro level.
Even if we found human patients to sign up to have their brains studied, it could be a decade or more before they die and you end up being able to study the brain. This also means you don't get to analyze all of them side by side, you'd likely receive all the donor brains at different times, which would complicate studying them all at the same time, as I'm not sure how easy preservation of a brain is...

Rats/mice are a great substitute because they develop very quickly and their brains share tons of similarities to ours. You can just buy a batch, dose them with drugs, then kill them all to study their brains.

Personally I'm too much of a softie to do that, but I can understand why the medical community does. We make huge advancements this way, and usually much quicker than we do studying humans.

Its a glutamate uptake disorder

You can simulate schizophrenia with diabetes/alcoholism

>>16790814
Glutamate uptake is one possible cause of it, but it's far from the only potential cause.