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Thread 16837073

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Anonymous No.16837073 [Report] >>16837143 >>16837311 >>16837324 >>16837648 >>16838070 >>16838103
Why do people act like “nothingness” is some default state that existence popped out of?
I don’t get how anyone thinks real “nothing” could exist. You can picture a void or black space, but that’s still something. If there was ever truly nothing, how could anything start? There’d be no space, no time, no potential for change. It just doesn’t add up
Anonymous No.16837143 [Report]
>>16837073 (OP)
Believe it or not, this is the very core of the philosophical debate that occured a long time ago around whether or not the number zero was actually a number, and if it is, then what kind of number is it, is it a natural number, an integer, etc?

History just came to a consensus about these things and moved on and for utility sake. Having zero as a number that represents something "real" is what makes things like calculus possible. It's like the same kind of reasoning behind why complex numbers exist. Because it is a first-order logical contradiction to say that the square root of -2 is not a positive number. But that doesn't end up meaning anything because the utility of using complex numbers in modeling and expressing reality far outweighs the fact that, strictly speaking, they don't make any sense.
Anonymous No.16837236 [Report]
And 100 years ago, everyone “knew” that the world was flat. >:D
Anonymous No.16837252 [Report]
Point of view fallacy. Sorry, but (YOU) can never die.
Anonymous No.16837311 [Report] >>16837325
>>16837073 (OP)
It could come from the misconception that the big bang theory says the universe started as nothing and then there was a big bang and the universe appeared, that seems to be a common religious argument for a God, that he must have created the universe because something can't come from nothing. But all the big bang theory really says is that the universe started as an extremely dense blob of energy and then expanded, it doesn't say where the energy came from. Some theories say it came from quantum fluctuations, but don't say where the quantum field came from.
Anonymous No.16837324 [Report]
>>16837073 (OP)
>I don’t get how anyone thinks real “nothing” could exist.
Its an empirical fact, anyone can hold nothing for themselves, anyone can see nothing with their own two ears and taste it with their own two feet, if not for nothing, you would always be holding an infinite number of things as there would be no way to terminate anything, you couldn't have one thing in direct contact with the next thing because there couldn't be nothing directly between them.

>You can picture a void or black space, but that’s still something
Okay, and what else? And what else after that? And what else after that?
Eventually you must realize it must be nothing else at some point.

>If there was ever truly nothing, how could anything start?
0!=1

>There’d be no space, no time, no potential for change.
There would be unlimited emptiness with an eternity of infinite potential.
0=0+0+0+...
Anonymous No.16837325 [Report] >>16837688
>>16837311
Law of explosion says a logical contradiction always leads to a deductive explosion.
x=-x is the arithmetic description of a self-contradicting (ie self-negating) arithmetic logic element.
Arithmetic axioms mandate the logical contradiction x=-x at x=0 because 0=-0 thus 0 can only be described as an oxymoronic valueless value.
As a paradoxical consequence of 0=-0 as an origin number, completion of the arithmetic system necessitates leaps of the imagination that introduces complexity which infers x=-x for all x:x = x*1 = sqrt(x*x)*sqrt(1*1) = x*sqrt(-1*-1) = x*sqrt(-1)*sqrt(-1) = x*i*i = x*i^2 = -x.
Arithmetic is a numerical explosion of logic, all statements of truth made by arithmetic are trivial truths among infinite truths because its original number is a self negating logical contradiction that imbues self contradiction upon all values.

The Standard Model of Physics is an emergent property of arithmetic by way of geometry, any models produced by physics, such as strings, rings, lies, groups, manifold, quantum foam or ultimately big bang, rely on arithmetic that is irrational at its core 0=-0 and not an accurate reflection of nature, by definition of logical contradiction and through the consequences described by the law of explosion.

Total incoherence is at the most extreme poles where zero and infinity might as well be equivocated in their trivial projections.
0 = 0 x 0 x ...
infinity = infinity x infinity x ...

This is why the best physics explanation is called a big bang, it is not a big natural bang, but a big numerical bang of arithmetic, geometric, physics, ..., inf, etc explosion based on a logical contradiction.
Anonymous No.16837648 [Report]
>>16837073 (OP)
Death is observed laying six feet under ... for eternity.
Anonymous No.16837688 [Report]
>>16837325
Just want to say, this is a really good response. Brings up a lot of great points. Especially the one about how geometry leads to physics. I mean, just look at linear algebra, and how that gets used now for basically everything these days, and it's like turning algebra into geometry pretty much.
Anonymous No.16838070 [Report]
>>16837073 (OP)
Every time someone tries to perceive "nothingness" we can never get anywhere near the truth. Nothingness has a definition, yet in order to be valid it must lack a definition. As, to be defined is to exist, and to exist is to be a thing.

There are negative types of things like absences, and negative types of facts which are falsified rather than verified.

However nothing and everything are not opposites in structure like black and white or hot and cold, because they both have no structure. They are opposites in a deeper sense.

https://streamable.com/ed1f8k
Anonymous No.16838103 [Report]
>>16837073 (OP)
The question of existence seems to lead to absurd conclusions no matter how you slice it. If it always existed, that means there has been an infinite amount of time up to this point, which seems impossible, what would that even mean. If it did have a beginning, then what does before time started even mean? Popping out of nothing, with no cause? Also seems absurd.

If you add god to the mix it still leaves more questions than answers. What would it mean for a being/will/consciousness to exist outside of the universe. If it exists, then there must be some catagory you could put it in, call it reality, multiverse, etc. But what would it mean for God to exist forever, or outside of time, and what causal powers does it have to create our universe.

So I don't think a god is a good answer. But at the same time I don't think any conceivable answer is a good answer. So either the answer to why and how anything exists at all is inconceivable, or it is absurd. It's probably both.