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7/6/2025, 11:11:03 AM
>>63945943
Really extreme anti-clericalism / anti-religious movements where people start going REEEEEEE and dynamiting churches and shooting priests are pretty rare in history. You had that in France during the French Revolution, in Russia during the Russian Revolution, and in Spain during the civil war.
The U.S. has a more laissez-faire approach because our version of secularism is that you can believe whatever you want and the government gets out of the way, and there's no state religion (okay the president will say "God bless America" but it's generally more of a private matter), but the U.S. has produced some crazy atheists who were rebelling against their environment. It really takes living around a lot of people who believe in young-earth creationism for that to happen. That said, I'm not religious but I am an American and our version of "religious freedom" has influenced me, it's what I feel is right. Like hands off / mind your own business.
Kemalist Turkey was in the middle. Also launching some full-scale attack on the Catholic Church today seems crazy and I understand why people think the leftists in Spain were lunatics, but think about the Middle East, or how it goes in Iran where it's run like a big seminary. I don't think the Iranian clerical regime is in danger of being toppled, but it's a place like that where I could see a pretty radical, anti-clerical revolution at some future date the more the country falls behind everyone else.
Spain was still pretty medieval in the 1930s. Orwell wrote about this in Homage to Catalonia. He interacted with some peasans in Andalusia and the Catholic Church meant nothing to them, and they had somehow made a kind of religion out of anarchism. Spanish anarchism in the 1930s was also a lot different from what you'd probably encounter today if you interacted with people calling themselves anarchists, and it had roots in localism like the revolt of the Comuneros in the 1500s, and plebian masses vs. centralized power.
Really extreme anti-clericalism / anti-religious movements where people start going REEEEEEE and dynamiting churches and shooting priests are pretty rare in history. You had that in France during the French Revolution, in Russia during the Russian Revolution, and in Spain during the civil war.
The U.S. has a more laissez-faire approach because our version of secularism is that you can believe whatever you want and the government gets out of the way, and there's no state religion (okay the president will say "God bless America" but it's generally more of a private matter), but the U.S. has produced some crazy atheists who were rebelling against their environment. It really takes living around a lot of people who believe in young-earth creationism for that to happen. That said, I'm not religious but I am an American and our version of "religious freedom" has influenced me, it's what I feel is right. Like hands off / mind your own business.
Kemalist Turkey was in the middle. Also launching some full-scale attack on the Catholic Church today seems crazy and I understand why people think the leftists in Spain were lunatics, but think about the Middle East, or how it goes in Iran where it's run like a big seminary. I don't think the Iranian clerical regime is in danger of being toppled, but it's a place like that where I could see a pretty radical, anti-clerical revolution at some future date the more the country falls behind everyone else.
Spain was still pretty medieval in the 1930s. Orwell wrote about this in Homage to Catalonia. He interacted with some peasans in Andalusia and the Catholic Church meant nothing to them, and they had somehow made a kind of religion out of anarchism. Spanish anarchism in the 1930s was also a lot different from what you'd probably encounter today if you interacted with people calling themselves anarchists, and it had roots in localism like the revolt of the Comuneros in the 1500s, and plebian masses vs. centralized power.
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