You are an international volunteer similar to George Orwell or Peter Kemp, what organization are you joining and what weapons are you bringing?

>>63939796 (OP)
I would join the requetes. they have a cool beret

>>63939796 (OP)
Obviously the Nationalists, because fuck commies.
Bringing? Being a working class Midwestern White boy with a passable ability in Spanish probably my deer rifle, a chopped down 12 gauge and my pistol, which back in that day would probably be a .38 revolver instead of a poly compact 9mm. I guess my AR would be the equivalent of a lever action in .30-30.
Or just hope for cool battlefield pickups after being issued a Mauser.

>>63939796 (OP)
Falangist

>>63939796 (OP)
Condor Legion
>to spy on Nazis

>>63939796 (OP)
my great uncle fought in that war and died, the fun part is i have no idea what side he fought for.

So I dont know if Im proud or ashamed of him, nigga died of tb after.

>>63939862
Euros insist on being gay even during wartime

>>63939891
Sounds like he joined a foreign war and refused to elaborate why or even what side he was going to fight for. That's based, based before his time in fact

>>63939796 (OP)
>monarchists, fascists, and catholic jihadis vs anarchists, communists, syndicalists, and token liberals-who-really-shouldn't-be-there
I'm bringing popcorn and a lawn chair.

>>63939813
>they have a cool beret
thats the reason why I joined the airborne

>>63939904

I dont belive he would have been a marxist /socialist /anti fascist, since he was iliterate in the most conservative chatolic part of the country.
but unless his ass got drafted and dragged to join the falangists i dont see why he would go since most tuga volunteers were former military men.
My grandmother swore up and down that he got gassed and thats why he got tb went he came back, but she was like 10 or 12 when he came back

I would like a blue shirt woman

Obviously Republican

gotta go with the tommy gun

>>63939895
I cross my legs like that

i just have a hard time understanding how republican spain went from "monarchy is bad" to "ahhhhhhhhh shoot the nuns we love gommunism" within the span of a couple years

>>63941968
Marxists are all neurotic

>>63939862
this, with a C96 too and a Gewehr 98. Dual mausers baby

realistically did the second spanish republic even have a chance?

>>63941968
>republican spain went from "monarchy is bad" to "ahhhhhhhhh shoot the nuns we love gommunism" within the span of a couple years
They were always like this, antireligious violence was the norm and subtly encouraged by the leftist authorities. During one of the mass burnings of the Churches and convents in 1931 the Prime Minister Manuel Azaña didn't allow the authorities to intervene stating "All the convents of Spain are not worth the life of a single Republican". Political violence was the norm during the Second Republic, it just didn't happen overnight with the civil war.

>>63942012
I found it
>>63941968

>>63942071
I'm 100% convinced they might have actually stood a chance if they just had the restraint to not chimp out and turn the religious moderates against them (that and not letting the stalinists take over).

>>63939796 (OP)
The Anarchists just to tell them not to trust the Commies (which they will do anyway and we will be massacred)

>>63941968
Life genuinely was that bad for the have-nots back then.

>>63941968
Marxism is one of the most dangerous ideologies of our times because it's exactly that irrational and no-holds-barred

>>63942367
lmao

>>63940116
She's a second generation mestiza from Latin America

>>63941968
It's fairly easy to understand if you're Spanish or familiar with Spain- the clergy was political and obviously those with different politics to the clergy didn't just sit there and take it in the chin.
Americans are used to their small decentralized churches which historically lacked political power, but the Catholic Church in nations like Spain (or Mexico, France, etc.) was this major organization which essentially was like a giga Nanny/Governess policing your behavior and working in tandem with the police/state to fuck your shit up if you stepped out of line. Spanish priests weren't just some dude who listened to confession, he was the guy writing down who attended mass that week and then publicly humiliating you and talking shit about you next time in order to socially ostracize you for not conforming.
When the Monarchy fell, the Church (which served as its ideological hammer and lackey) was obviously next on the firing line because people didn't just forget not did the Church even try to hide their political inclinations

what the helly was their problem?

Spanish Civil War is fascinating. Orwell goes having a rather neutral view of Communism and by the end despises it and sees it just as the same as Fascism. Imagine alienating people simply because you're so autistic.

>>63943235
>helly
don't do this. you're not a vtuber.

>>63941968

Some of the reasons are:
>increasing influence of Soviet Union who IIRC actually preffered Republicans to lose anyway
>all the decent people who actually believed in democracy, civil rights, freedom of speech and shit just getting killed out in earlier phases of war

>>63941968
there were never any real republicans. Franco banished the king and leftoids believed Sbain should have become a communist USSR puppet. It was doomed to fail from the start

>>63939796 (OP)
>Condor Legion
>Ju-87 Stuka
>bomb commies
>desert when the war ends and fuck Republican women prostituting themselves to exert dominance
>hide plane somewhere safe and dry
>will have the only airworthy Ju-87 in a few decades

>>63942056
>realistically did the second spanish republic even have a chance?

Fuck no. Even if it had won the civil war, Nazi Germany would have just rolled over Spain during Fall Rot or in the summer of 1941 when he double-crossed Stalin.

>>63939796 (OP)
>Do I want to join the guys who at least sort of cared about Spain?
>Or do I want to join the hordes of fucking communist barbarians that raped mad women?
Decisions decisions

>>63939796 (OP)
>Condor Legion
>Ju-87 Stuka
>bomb commies
>desert when the war ends and fuck Republican women prostituting themselves to exert dominance
>hide plane somewhere safe and dry with lots of lubricant lovingly applied
>it was all just a long con so I can own the only airworthy Ju-87 in the world in a few decades

>>63942056
>realistically did the second spanish republic even have a chance?

Fuck no. Even if it had won the civil war, Nazi Germany would have just rolled over Spain during Fall Rot or in the summer of 1941 when Hitler double-crossed Stalin.

>>63942398
They literally just got too cocky and just egged on violence because they always thought they would win. They were the first ones to start a failed revolt in 1934 after losing the elections. This sealed the fate of the republic, not 1936.

>>63939796 (OP)
>spics fighting each other
Cue the Benny Hill music

>>63943982
are you arab or latinx?

>>63943986
>latinx

>>63941968
Another anon mentioned it, but the church had a lot of power and it was not neutral. There was also some element of tit-for-tat violence and retaliation that escalated because both sides were killing people on the other side. There were full-scale battles going on before the civil war, and a conservative government came to power, rolled back reforms and cracked down the left (throwing people in prison and also a bloody battle with striking miners involving artillery and air attacks). Then the left won the elections and came back into power, there was a right-wing coup, and then it exploded and the anarchists went ham on the churches. The most ferocious anti-clerical violence actually came from the anarchists who playing a significant role in the civil war.

>>63943314
An interesting thing about that -- when the communists were purging the POUM and he was fleeing for his life, he played up being a middle-class Englishman to avoid drawing suspicion as he evaded the police. During the peak of the revolution, the bourgeois types tried to dress and look more working class, but once the communists put the brakes on it, you wanted to look more bourgeois. A thing which challenges stereotypes about this thing.

>>63943314
I'd add though, that Orwell's problem with the communists was in part because he thought they weren't radical enough, and that they betrayed the revolution for a fake-sham of a revolution that preserved private property. The communists -- following orders from Moscow -- had shifted their policy after the rise of Hitler to what they called the "popular front." The basic idea was to form a communist-led alliance of parties including non-communist socialists (social democrats), and whatever other "patriotic" anti-fascist forces participating in a parliamentary republic (under threat from the fascists) would agree to it. They changed their language from the issue being "socialism vs. capitalism" to "democracy vs. fascism." This is actually how they talked.

This makes a certain sort of sense. The communists in Germany refused to cooperate with the socialists and they were destroyed piecemeal by the Nazis. But then in Spain, you had this conflict between the communists (Stalinists) who had changed their policy, and more radical anarchists and Trotskyists who wanted to accelerate the social revolution in an anti-capitalist direction, and this escalated into bloody infighting and they lost (again).

>>63942555
It's quite rational and has predicted many things that have cone to pass, starting with the modern welfare state.

>>63944071
>a bloody battle with striking miners
it wasn't "striking miners" it was a literal communist revolution

>>63944134
>it wasn't "striking miners" it was a literal communist revolution
That is a sentiment often expressed by mine owners.

>>63944177
you got me, I am a mine owner

>>63944114
>March, 1939
>liberals and anarchists are sick of Communists giving away their gold reserves to Stalin for rusty Mosins and are desperate to negotiate an end to the war so the Nationalists don't kill every last one of them
>stage bloody coup against the Communists (that results in thousands of deaths) and remove Negrín from power in a desperate bid to appease Franco
>for the last three weeks of its existence, the Second Spanish Republic is a de facto military junta virtually indistinguishable from its Nationalist adversary

What did they mean by this?

>>63939796 (OP)

>>63944134
I mean it was both if you want to meet me in the middle here

>>63944382
We even did it with ww2 german uniforms. It is called SOUL

>>63944224
fix the ventilation fans and you should be ok to go to work tomorrow

>>63943986
>latinx
Drop that shit right now!

>>63943314
think that was due to the communist purges of the anarchists and anti Stalinists in Spain

>>63939796 (OP)
always funny how the descendants of dictators always end up with bullshit banking jobs

>>63939913
> catholic jihadis vs anarchists, communists, syndicalists, and token liberals-who-really-shouldn't-be-there


I was born to late to Deus Vult against commies.

>>63941968
hardcore far left reaction to a hardcore far right government and culture that didn't allow for much and had been in power for centuries
When you hate the government and its hard to tell where the government ends and church begins, its not that surprising they ended up finding the two synonymous

>>63944114
Kinda funny how badly commies fuck up when they're to autistic to pursue salami tactics.

>>63941968
They were proven right in hindsight as the Church was Franco's greatest tool for dictatorship and repression

>>63945977
>They were proven right in hindsight as the Church was Franco's greatest tool for dictatorship and repression
Woah, after commies committed inconceivable atrocities against the Church, it was super pro "kill the commies" guy? Whomever could have foreseen this reaction?

>>63945943
>hardcore far left reaction to a hardcore far right government and culture
Or, more simply, shitlibs hate all that is orderly and beautiful. We know this because they hate ALL churches in ALL countries.

>>63939796 (OP)
I find both groups to be disgusting.

>>63942704
This.

>>63945984
but anon libs love the current and prior pope, I think you're ascribing qualities you dislike to the people you hate

>>63945844
it's almost as if banking is the next most important thing to ruling

>>63942675
Post nose.

>>63944347
This scene has stuck with me since it came out.

>>63945977
Franco was based and under him Spain wasn't a shithole like it was in the decades before him and in the decades after his death.
Now at least Spain is just irrelevant.

>>63942704
>Americans are used to their small decentralized churches which historically lacked political power
lol

>>63946562
>Franco was based and under him Spain wasn't a shithole like it was in the decades before him and in the decades after his death.

Greatest ruler Spain has had in the last 500 years honestly. Anyone but him taking over and Spain would have been royally screwed.

>Spanish Republic wins
>gets ROFLstomped by Nazi Germany come 1940/41, potentially costing Great Britain the war if the Germans reach Gibraltar

>some other Nationalist like Sanjurjo or Mola winds up in charge
>Spain joins the Axis Powers and has the shit bombed out of it/invaded by the Western Allies, Spanish Republic likely winds up being put back into power post-war and Spain winds up becoming a pro-Soviet enclave in Western Europe (essentially condemning it to economic ruin)

>>63945943
Really extreme anti-clericalism / anti-religious movements where people start going REEEEEEE and dynamiting churches and shooting priests are pretty rare in history. You had that in France during the French Revolution, in Russia during the Russian Revolution, and in Spain during the civil war.

The U.S. has a more laissez-faire approach because our version of secularism is that you can believe whatever you want and the government gets out of the way, and there's no state religion (okay the president will say "God bless America" but it's generally more of a private matter), but the U.S. has produced some crazy atheists who were rebelling against their environment. It really takes living around a lot of people who believe in young-earth creationism for that to happen. That said, I'm not religious but I am an American and our version of "religious freedom" has influenced me, it's what I feel is right. Like hands off / mind your own business.

Kemalist Turkey was in the middle. Also launching some full-scale attack on the Catholic Church today seems crazy and I understand why people think the leftists in Spain were lunatics, but think about the Middle East, or how it goes in Iran where it's run like a big seminary. I don't think the Iranian clerical regime is in danger of being toppled, but it's a place like that where I could see a pretty radical, anti-clerical revolution at some future date the more the country falls behind everyone else.

Spain was still pretty medieval in the 1930s. Orwell wrote about this in Homage to Catalonia. He interacted with some peasans in Andalusia and the Catholic Church meant nothing to them, and they had somehow made a kind of religion out of anarchism. Spanish anarchism in the 1930s was also a lot different from what you'd probably encounter today if you interacted with people calling themselves anarchists, and it had roots in localism like the revolt of the Comuneros in the 1500s, and plebian masses vs. centralized power.

>>63946602
I don't think it's comparable. Like in the U.S., you can go to these towns and see the Methodist church here, and the Baptist church there, and then maybe some other church, and when they built those churches it was obvious they were trying to compete with each other to attract worshipers in some boomtown. But it's a different matter when there's only THE church, and it owns a considerable amount of arable land too in a country where peasants are still working the land with handmade wooden tools. We don't have that feudal background.

>>63939796 (OP)
My uncle was a volunteer in Spanish Civil War from Poland.
Die hard communist, came from peasant family, rode through ranks of communist party, met Stalin, after 1945 he was a political officer in security and tortured resistance members agai at communist regime. Was swept aside in late 50s as too hardline.
I learned this in late 90s, after he died. Before that he tried to teach me shooting and I cried when he killed a pigeon lol. The guy probably had dozens of people killed.

>>63946626
>The U.S. has a more laissez-faire approach because our version of secularism is that you can believe whatever you want and the government gets out of the way, and there's no state religion (okay the president will say "God bless America" but it's generally more of a private matter)

Were it not for the institution of Separation of Church and State, this country would have dissolved into a religious bloodbath that would put the Thirty Years War to shame centuries ago. That half-sentence in the 1st Amendment

>Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

has saved us from more trouble than we can begin to imagine.

Posting KINO, don't mind me

Beware the thought-terminating cliché, for it is the mind-killer.

>>63942704
>>63944071
Good, reasoned posts.

>>63942012
>>63942555
Bad, knee-jerk posts.

>>63947473
You sound like a fucking pinko. It is completely acceptable to acknowledge the Catholic Church's crimes against the people, and to see marxism as a mental plague upon Mankind.

>>63939796 (OP)
how do I win as Carlist Spain in hoi4?

>>63942675
and?

>>63947497
Step right up people, step right up! We have been blessed by a live, prime example! Behold how the troglodyte right out of the gate spat its bile to shelter itself. A reliable albeit predictable defense. And now that it feels safe behind its reflexive non-thought and has revealed its hand, it can be safely ignored.

>>63947620
you don't because carlists never win, even when they do

>>63939796 (OP)
Condor Legion for the He 112A (my beloved) and He 111 when it still had its elliptical wings.

>>63947757
more like condom legion lmaooooo

>>63939796 (OP)
The republicans were a combination of deluded anarchists, malicious commies, and a small amount of liberals who really shouldn't be there.

The fascists are a combination of deluded fascists, LARPing monarchists, and Franco's loyalists who is the only guy actually acting rational and sane.

If I fight for anyone it's directly for Franco.

>>63939796 (OP)
I enjoyed Pan's Labyrinth. it introduced me to the war.

>>63939862
The falangists were cool but honestly fucking deluded, they actually had dreams of restoring Spanish hegemony over its former colonies.

>>63947760
Franco was an old school monarchist boomer with no complex ideology other than "long live Spain lol" and that is probably why he survived for so long

>>63947792
>they actually had dreams of restoring Spanish hegemony over its former colonies.
Not really, outside of paradox games, nobody thought of this. They merely believed in Hispanidad, cultural unity between the Hispanic peoples (think of how the British Commonwealth system exists in the present).

>>63947760
An interesting little anecdote from Homage to Catalonia is how they'd make preparations on the front line whenever they heard church bells off in the fascist area because the right-wingers liked to go to mass before attacking. Little things like that add some color to the story.

>>63947792
Were the Falangists really that much of a factor on the Spanish right? I know they existed but they seemed like more of a meme at the time compared to the rank-and-file guys in Franco's army. Like the mouthbreathing student right-wingers who were following that failson who got gakked by the republicans compared to the actual chuds who carried the day.

>>63944021
>>63944514
kek @ leftists inventing a slur as offensive as niggers

>>63939796 (OP)
Fighting for the Falangists for the chance to give commies and shitlibs the castor oil and baton treatment.
I’ll use whatever they hand me and I look forward to putting down godless degenerate filth.

>>63942675
Even better.

The Falangists obviously. I would bring as many side arms as I could find ammunition and holsters for. Switching to your sidearm is always faster than reloading. Ideally I'd also bring a cowboy hat and a duster so they could call me El Vaquero because that would be cool.

>>63939796 (OP)
>some french formation that barely existed
>no mention of the largest single unit of foreigners on the Nationalist side
I know the italians were kind of shit but I think they should be included.

>>63948068
>Ends up with the nickname el gaucho

Nationalist Guardia civil, not directly on the front line but still involved

>>63945977
>Church was Franco's greatest tool for dictatorship and repression
Suppressing communists is a good thing, anon.

>>63946655
Defining America as a fundamentally Christian nation would've avoided even more bad things.

>>63948236
yeah and im sure no christian would've disagreed with each other and ascribing a religion as defined by the state would be so much less trouble than politics in current year
>>63945984
Or, more simply, you're an ass

I'm from a place where the coal and steel industries were huge back then, a few locals did join the international brigade of the Republicans to support their fellow workers. Most likely that means I'd get swept up in the moment and join them too, but like Orwell, I'd eventually come to hate them once I saw how retarded they were running the show. Plus I'm from a Catholic family, so my family would never forgive me if I didn't desert as soon as I found out about the nuns.
>>63943914
Gonna get myself some mad Spanish pussy before returning home though.

>>63947989
>Were the Falangists really that much of a factor on the Spanish right?
Yes, at the start they were enough to be considered to be involved in the planning the coup, but they were never as big as the Nazis, or Italian Fascists. However, once the Civil War started membership exploded in popularity with overly zealous recruits desperate to prove fanatical loyalty to the cause. Most of the prewar Falange leadership was executed or imprisoned by the Republicans, which made it easy for Franco to do the forced merger of the all the right wing political parties and replace the party leadership with those loyal to Franco. Also those with left wing backgrounds joined the Falange to avoid suspicion of being communists and often proved to be the most fanatic falangists during and after the war with the blue shirt being known as the "blue life jacket" among the anti falangist wing of the Nationalists.

Falange/Legion/Carlist officer on the Nationalist side

Falangist & Carlist female volunteers

CNT anarchists and a makeshift armored vehicle

>>63948004
if you can't tell everyone uses its ironically now its over for you

>>63948533
Brutal mog by the Legion.

>>63946913
Millán-Astray was an undeniable chad

>>63939796 (OP)
To me this is one of those conflicts where both sides were assholes

>>63950521
I certainly know that term is used here as a slur.
Those who invented it don't come here.

>>63939796 (OP)
Obviously Falange or Condor Legion. Commies are godless, faggot pawns of jews.

>>63942704
it's almost like a priests duty isn't to just say Mass but to tend to the spiritual well being his parish and preserving public morals by shaping the personal morals of the individuals in it.
when the state says what you can and can't do and then uses it's monopoly on violence to force you, the faggots are all over it french kissing the state's boots.
But when the Church tells you what you can and can't do you lot trow a spastic fit.

>>63944071
>throwing people in prison and also a bloody battle with striking miners involving artillery and air attacks
>Then the left won the elections and came back into power, there was a right-wing coup
you are leaving out some interesting details there
like how the striking miners started their strike by killing the all the mine owners, managers, clergy they could get their hands on as well as their families. And it not just being a strike but an armed revolt.
Or how when the left came to power the first thing they did was freeing all those involved you know the people that had killed entire families.
Or how the republicans had their secret police run a terror campaing competing with the KGB in kidnapping, torturing and disappearing right wingers, political terror that the right hadn't engaged in. Driving the center and middle classes into the arms of the right wing. While also make it clear that there wouldn't be a political solution for it.
the left forced the right into a corner and then upped the pressure. When the moderates wanted to ease on the pressure because they where afraid they where setting themselves up for a coup the left radicals instead upped the pressure.
The left gave the right a very simple choice, revolt and you may die, don't revolt and you will die.

>>63947784
>>63944347
What is the Captains uniform based on?

>>63948566
you're just going to get backstabbed by the communists anon

>>63952426
Policía Armada

>>63947784
>I enjoyed Pan's Labyrinth. it introduced me to the war.
Me too, although I genuinely believed the leftist group won after watching it, LOL

>>63952426
The National Police service or armed police, however it does not make sense to the Spanish viewer as they are only assigned to the major population centers not rural areas. I think the director did not want to use the Civil Guard as realistically it would've been because they did not fit the "evil fascist" look.

>>63951084
>The left gave the right a very simple choice, revolt and you may die, don't revolt and you will die.
Think the miners probably thought the same, though. We're talking about Spain in the 1930s here. You don't just go on strike unless you're bringing weapons because the forces of the Spanish right was going to come out and kill people anyways because that's how things were done.

You don't get anarchist miners taking over swathes of a country when everything is going well! People don't like that shit when things are good. It's when things suck and are going REALLY badly.

>>63952857
>You don't get Catholic farmers taking over swathes of a country when everything is going well!
that's a non argument. All of Europe was shit at that time. Every miner had a shit life and the great depression made it even more shit for everyone.
But I don't recall other strikes starting with "lets go kill the mine manager and his family". I also don't recall other miner strikes being put down with planes and artillery. Gee I wonder if there's a connection between the two.
ffs the Asturias strikers where so batshit even left leaning police and army units in the are refused to join them. Units that would later end up staying loyal to the republic.

I'm not saying that there weren't legitimate demands from the left. But the left in Spain escalated to violence and then kept escalating the violence. Bringing the right to a point where they where on death ground and had to fight back or die.
>casas Viejas
you are aware that this was done by the assault guard of the republican left leaning government. A Unit that went for the republic during the civil war and that was used to terrorize the right before it?

>>63946648
Based

>>63947989
They were a major force in Franco's coalition but ultimately he was a traditional conservative militarist who wanted to reinstate the monarchy and got annoyed at them pushing for instituting a totalitarian corporatist state, so he authorized the creation of the Blue Division so that they would all hopefully go and die fighting the Russians

>>63953058
>that's a non argument.
Sure but I'm not really arguing with you.

>But I don't recall other strikes starting with "lets go kill the mine manager and his family".
Well... I dunno, that seemed to happen quite a lot back then. Even in the U.S. old-school mobster labor guys might want to send a message to the boss by blowing the front door off his house with a shotgun. This was a real conflict. There weren't things like labor "rights" back then. Let alone in Spain.
https://youtu.be/JY6N-tEppkg

>I also don't recall other miner strikes being put down with planes and artillery.
It happened in West Virginia in 1921. Not sure about artillery though but there were bombing runs by aircraft hired by coal companies.

>But the left in Spain escalated to violence and then kept escalating the violence. Bringing the right to a point where they where on death ground and had to fight back or die.
Well yeah. It was a war. There was no middle ground.

>>63953468
>Well yeah. It was a war. There was no middle ground.
that's the point, there wasn't a war
democracy was doing it's thing the right wasn't happy with it but it wasn't bad enough to risk it all on a coup.
the left let it get so bad and violent that the right didn't any other way out other than a coup.
the bodyguards of the one of the leading socialists kidnapped and murdered one of the leading right wing politicians and the government did nothing about it.
all the left had to do was moderate, push trough some reforms, get re-elected, do it again. but no they wanted bloodshed, they needed a revolution
the left killed democracy in Spain but where surprised that the right revolted instead of their revolution breaking out

but I'm sure this will fly over your head just like basic economic theory you being a lefty and all that.

also
>I don't recall other strikes starting with "lets go kill the mine manager and his family"
>well they shot a door of it's hinges that's the same right?

The Siege of the Alcázar was a pretty minor but symbolic battle

>>63952806
I don't blame him
I don't think audiences would be able to take this look seriously

>>63945844
wasnt franco castrated and his wife cucked him to get pregnant?
so all of these "franco family ppl." are on fact some stable boys descedants?

>>63939796 (OP)
Nationalists

A. They win
B. They were never going to lose
C. I have the chance to personally shoot George Orwell or Ernest Hemmingway

>>63947633
You have to go back

>>63939796 (OP)
as a catalan, obviously i would join esquerra republicana de catalunya specifically to bomb spanish govt buildings

>>63955684
some good that will do you for what the full 17 seconds of independence

>>63955426
>shooting the biggest critic of communism AND someone who will shoot themself anyway
ya dingus

>>63953584
>all the left had to do was moderate, push trough some reforms, get re-elected, do it again. but no they wanted bloodshed, they needed a revolution
They did get re-elected again and there was a right-wing military coup *and* the nationalists fucked it up (at first) and it devolved into a civil war. You can say the assassination of Calvo Sotelo by the Republicans was the trigger, but they'd say that was in retaliation for the assassination of Jose Catillo, who was a cop and that might've been in retaliation for his part in busting up a Falangist rally. Or whatever. The point is this debate is endless because that's in the nature of the thing. I'm not saying it's good to fight a civil war it's just not one-sided like that but a mutually interpenetrating (both philosophically and also literally, with bullets) event that develops through a collision between opposing forces who had their ~reasons~ and was only resolved when one side wiped out the other.

>>63955004
what is wrong with it?

>>63955735
>event that develops through a collision between opposing forces who had their ~reasons~ and was only resolved when one side wiped out the other.
so in other words you agree that the left had placed the right on death ground.
my guess as to your politics is that you are lefty with some familiarity with marxism.
It's obvious from the way you write all those words you don't need to hide what is being said.
And the fact that you conveniently skip over the violence that the left was inflicting on the right.
after all no measure is unjust if it is for the revolution.

you also skip over how the left tried to stage their own coup when they weren't re-elected.
Or how they where only re-elected after the president chose to hold new elections instead of offering the right the change to form a government. Or how those elections where marred by left wing pressure and violence.
In general the left in Spain where not democratic. They saw the republic not as a democracy but as a set of left wing ideals and policies. They'd use voting to get those done but the moment voting didn't work they'd turn to violence and made that very clear.
They tried to stage a coup first, the murdered first, they revolted first.
They led the downward spiral of violence, they had the chance to stop said spiral. They did not, they wanted the spiral to continue into revolution. It's just that they lost when the revolutionary civil war did break out after they had put the right on death ground forcing it to act first.

>>63955697
i dream of punching the prime minister of spain like that one time mariano rajoy got punched on live tv by some random teenager, this time with brass knuckles laced with paralytic frog poison

>>63955722
He's not anticommunist at all, he's anti not *my* perfect version of communism just like everyone else.

>>63939796 (OP)

OP image is Missing the CTV the Italians fighting for the nationalists

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpo_Truppe_Volontarie

75.000 guys isn't negligible

>>63955149
Big if true

>>63946648
Your uncle was a scumbag.

>>63947633
Reddit is that way -->

>>63947799
Based, honestly.

>>63947989
You're a fag

>>63948245
And you're a l*ftist

>>63942675
Which is why the "Amerimutt" meme is so funny to me, as if Europeons forgot that multiethnic and multiracial didn't rape and rampage their way across the continent for THOUSANDS of years.

>>63944071
>striking miners
They were armed communists who killed police and even other miners, the whole thing was a insurrection.

>>63953058
>life was shit

No it wasn't, proggie. Go wank to Game of Thrones or some other outrageous pastiche. Being a miner would have sucked, though.

>>63957110
read a book fag

>>63944126
>predicted many things
Marx never realized the nigh infinite ability of the Capital to adapt to and absorb its own internal contradictions, there's no vanguard, the revolution will never come.
It's an outdated ideology and requires severe mental gymnastics to still be considered relevant.

>>63957206
>“Modern bourgeois society with its relations of production, of exchange, and of property, a society that has conjured up such gigantic means of production and of exchange, is like the sorcerer, who is no longer able to control the powers of the nether world whom he has called up by his spells.”
But come now, do you really expect anyone to be omniscient beyond their own age? Is all of modern historiography, for instance, irredeemable because past scholars were limited by their time?
Unfortunately, there have been (and are) Marxists after Marx himself, who have analyzed that shit, too, to no end. It's dangerously naive to assume he and his writings alone are all there is to it and his kin. Check fucking /lit/ any day.

>>63957174
compared to today every other historical period was shit materially.
I agree that it didn't suck as hard as most march of history progressives like to paint it as.
But if you where working class in post depression Europe and Spain in particular shit was hard.

>>63958230
>working class
Yeah, because the workers in the USSR had the highest quality of life in the wor-
>starves 40 million to death
Oh.

>>63958332
where did I say that live was better in the USSR retard
life in the USSR being pure hell doesn't make life elsewhere less shit

>>63958430
Their quality of life was nowhere near as bad to justify communist revolt. The Bolshivisks started the war as revenge for what the Spanish did against the Sephardi during the Reconquesta.

>>63958455
>heir quality of life was nowhere near as bad to justify communist revolt
I'm not saying that you utter cretin

>>63939796 (OP)
Carlists

>>63939796 (OP)
My weapon? An accordian.

>>63946648
Wow you're 100% related to complete scum you have quisling traitor dna

https://www.doomedsoldiers.com/

>>63946648
>The guy probably had dozens of people killed.
Try thousands and remember Poland fought the Polish-Soviet war. he knew he was a traitor to his people and his nation his whole life

>>63953438
You're shit on the shoes of humanity.

>>63955914
Orwell was a democratic socialist though travelling with the (Independent) Labour Party. He only joined the POUM militia cause he was assigned to it basically & never really went with Marxism. He also fucking hated the commies on the republican side.

>>63939796 (OP)
The winner side

>>63958513
>shit was hard
No the fuck it wasn't.
>I didn't say that
You fucking did.

>>63958900
>No the fuck it wasn't.
great you can go live the life of a 1930 working class man and tell me if it sucked or not.
as for the rest go read my posts annon
I'm saying that shit sucked but no other strikes started out by killing people, innocent people like children.
how the fuck is that me arguing that the working class should rise in a communist revolt and start murdering

>>63939796 (OP)
Fighting for the Alfonsist Loyalist parties , none of this gay Carlist , Franquist , Communist , Socialist Anarchist or Falangist nonsense .

Viva el Rey , muera el mal gobierno .

>>63957206
>>63958171
If there's a problem I have with Marxists it's that they treat him like their religion's prophet and are unwilling to adapt their traditional conceptions of class to fit the modern world, or to correct the existing errors that were present even in Marx's time - because they consider his word holy, basically. You can argue with interpretations of Marx but Marx Himself can never be wrong, just like Islamic scholars can debate the meaning of the Prophet Mohammad but the Prophet Mohammad himself can never be wrong.

The main enemy of the working class for example is not the bourgeois, it's actually the managerial class, but Marxists refuse to acknowledge that the managerial class is separate from the working class (because they do not work, but rather, simply direct the actual workers in what to do). Likewise, the petit-bourgeois are actually part of the working class (because they do work in the small businesses they own) but Marxists insist on treating them as not working class and as enemies of the working class, even though they have far more in common in terms of both the nature of their existence, and their class interest, with the proletariat than the managerial class does.

Indeed in many ways Marxists deny the existence of the managerial class at all. This makes it hard to come to an understanding with Marxists. But it makes sense when you consider that most Marxists are either managerial or aspire to be - so it's in their class interests to subvert and deceive the working class.

>>63961737

>are unwilling to adapt their traditional conceptions of class to fit the modern world

Marx's conceptions of Class do not fit even his own world .The industrial Europe of his time utterly rejected his ideas and Marxism failed to take off there .It only caught on in highly ruralized countries , some with honestly semi-feudal societies , and that was only because it was championed by gangsters and warlords who imposed it by absolute force and genocide .And after that only found success due to these now industrialized countries backing Marxist insurgent movements with the US shooting itself in the foot and acting as the enemy against them .

>>63961737
>Indeed in many ways Marxists deny the existence of the managerial class at all

Because Marxists themselves dream of being the Managerial class .Not filthy Proletariat but rather the rich and "enlightened" conducting and dominating the Proletariat absolutely and managing what others produce .

>>63958814
You can't gaslight me nigger I read Homage to Catalonia.

Socialists and communists are both marxists and the terms are interchangeable to everyone except for the "nuh uh my version is the good one" crowd which still deserve to face the wall.

>>63961737
>Likewise, the petit-bourgeois are actually part of the working class (because they do work in the small businesses they own)
I can very much relate to this as some one that has ran a small business.
It stems mostly from their very limited perspective and lack of empathy things they claim to have tons of as enlightened marxists.
having worked with freelancers in a cultural sector I can assure you that the marxism lovers don't think any work they don't see as not existing. Or if they have to admit it has to be done it isn't proper work. That most of the overhead work that has to be done is precisely due to over regulation that lefties love to push is completely lost on them.

>>63943922
Oddly enough that might have been a better out come for the Nazi. Would have been able to close Gibraltar and get that wolfram. And im sure a large population of volunteers to fight commies.

>>63944234
Weren't even getting Mosian Negants....
It was left overs donated to the Tsar during ww1. And a few I-16 and T-26

>>63961737
sounds like you're just making shit up in your head