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7/3/2025, 8:48:18 PM
>>24513435
I think Hitler was a Romantic character too, but yes I think the mass murder of Jews in Europe in the 1940s happened. We can talk about how that happened, and I do think there's a case for a critical examination of the Holocaust as a "myth" or how that's used or redeployed in the service of present-day politics (this is not unique to the Holocaust -- history has always been reinterpreted and redeployed in such ways, which is one reason why we also have historiography to also study that, like the study of "how history is written"). There's a particularly American version of this myth that is enshrined in Holocaust museums that teaches a lesson about the Holocaust that it's like racism and illiberalism and those things are bad, and don't be those things, or else you're a Nazi. I have some problems with this narrative. That said I don't like antisemitism either and think it makes people stupid, and I believe it's a symptom of failing societies and political movements, and serves as a mental block or cope for frustrations which are projected onto the Jew, but it doesn't have much to do with the Jews per se.
A lot of Israelis are descended from survivors, more than Americans. Basically in the 20th century the Jews got wiped out everywhere except for the U.S. and the ones in the east were drained to Israel, so Israel constitutes most of eastern Jewry at this point. The main thing is that I think the Israeli ones drew different (and much more chuddier) lessons compared to American Jews, who arrived earlier and were saved from destruction in the 20th century by American liberalism, so the American ones reached the conclusion they needed to double down on American liberalism. Most American Jews are actually not Holocaust survivors or directly descended from them. Now the gentile right has been questioning liberalism and directing some of their ire onto these American Jews, who are caught between these gentile rightists and a left that really hates Israel because the Israelis are chudded. So it's a real dilemma for them. But when I said Israeli-Zionism is more Nietzschean, I really mean that. Like this piece of propaganda is very sentimental but it's 100% serious, there's a part where the narrator says "we warn you" but they're not kidding:
https://youtu.be/lDcopmNc3xs
You heard BobVylan chanting "death to the IDF." That is provocative in Britain, but the Israelis hear that all the time. He's also not wrong. If you want to drive them into the sea, you do need to go through the IDF. But really the attitude is like "come try it" but otherwise most of them don't take that stuff seriously. I'm not necessarily talking about Israeli propaganda organs in English (which I think can be pretty cynical) but the average Israeli guy on the street. Like, it isn't a game. It's a country that has more or less been continuously at war for 70+ years. They're killers who dangled Egyptian corpses from helicopters as an intimidation tactic.
I think Hitler was a Romantic character too, but yes I think the mass murder of Jews in Europe in the 1940s happened. We can talk about how that happened, and I do think there's a case for a critical examination of the Holocaust as a "myth" or how that's used or redeployed in the service of present-day politics (this is not unique to the Holocaust -- history has always been reinterpreted and redeployed in such ways, which is one reason why we also have historiography to also study that, like the study of "how history is written"). There's a particularly American version of this myth that is enshrined in Holocaust museums that teaches a lesson about the Holocaust that it's like racism and illiberalism and those things are bad, and don't be those things, or else you're a Nazi. I have some problems with this narrative. That said I don't like antisemitism either and think it makes people stupid, and I believe it's a symptom of failing societies and political movements, and serves as a mental block or cope for frustrations which are projected onto the Jew, but it doesn't have much to do with the Jews per se.
A lot of Israelis are descended from survivors, more than Americans. Basically in the 20th century the Jews got wiped out everywhere except for the U.S. and the ones in the east were drained to Israel, so Israel constitutes most of eastern Jewry at this point. The main thing is that I think the Israeli ones drew different (and much more chuddier) lessons compared to American Jews, who arrived earlier and were saved from destruction in the 20th century by American liberalism, so the American ones reached the conclusion they needed to double down on American liberalism. Most American Jews are actually not Holocaust survivors or directly descended from them. Now the gentile right has been questioning liberalism and directing some of their ire onto these American Jews, who are caught between these gentile rightists and a left that really hates Israel because the Israelis are chudded. So it's a real dilemma for them. But when I said Israeli-Zionism is more Nietzschean, I really mean that. Like this piece of propaganda is very sentimental but it's 100% serious, there's a part where the narrator says "we warn you" but they're not kidding:
https://youtu.be/lDcopmNc3xs
You heard BobVylan chanting "death to the IDF." That is provocative in Britain, but the Israelis hear that all the time. He's also not wrong. If you want to drive them into the sea, you do need to go through the IDF. But really the attitude is like "come try it" but otherwise most of them don't take that stuff seriously. I'm not necessarily talking about Israeli propaganda organs in English (which I think can be pretty cynical) but the average Israeli guy on the street. Like, it isn't a game. It's a country that has more or less been continuously at war for 70+ years. They're killers who dangled Egyptian corpses from helicopters as an intimidation tactic.
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