>>149850115
>bru by this point you're arguing 1 example of a larger thing I was trying to make.
So? I'm talking about that point because it's what interested me, I wasn't aiming to tackle your argument as a whole.

>that's a copout excuse.
I wasn't excusing them, just stating the reason on why they are the way they are. I'm not denying that their mediocrity is their fault.