Thread 95794420

>"dude I don't even use the rules I just roll dice for le funny noise"
>"I just tell the players what number they need to roll, because it's all arbitrary anyway"
>"I just make up the monsters hit points, it dies when I feel like it"
>/tg/ goes wild and söyfaces over this "based gigachad DM"
What the fuck is wrong with you people? If you do this, you're basically committing fraud, unironically. Stop wasting everyone's time but basically cheating. I've been a DM for 20 years now and I've never felt the need to engage in this childish bullshit.

Anon the whole point of a DM is to make sure the group is having a fun time. If the players want a by the books rules judge than fine, but if not it's your responsibility to accommodate.

Use le hecking social skills

Gameless loser

While this OP is a pointless exaggeration for yous, I do have feelings vaguely similar.
I have a friend who quite likes the highly vague games of another GM and I am just... not super impressed? I played in one of them and had an okay time, but it was nothing to like, write home about.

I dunno, I feel like the rules are important to create a world from which you can then have ideas and plans. If there aren't rules on a thing, it's not something you can actually plan around without bothering the GM every step of the way. Which means you basically can only plan so far ahead.

>>95794452
>Anon the whole point of a DM is to make sure the group is having a fun time
Wrong.
The point of a DM is running a good game of Dungeons and Dragons. If the players aren't having fun, then maybe freeform improv is more their speed. I've tried it and it's cringe as fuck, but if they enjoy it, then they should go play that instead of shitting up the TTRPG community.

>>95794565
>Gameless loser
Yeah that's what I say to the "just freeform everything" faggots. Because they arent playing D&D. They're hardly playing a game at all.

>>95794575
I'm not sure anyone at this point can buy you as anything other than a fake human being, and whether or not they interact with you is based entirely on whether they want to shout into the void right now.
I moderately want to, but am also kinda tired.

You can't even greentext right OP.

>>95794575
>Because they arent playing D&D
Busted.
Retard.

>>95794420 (OP)
how bout ye bitch about it on le 4chan. that always fixes the (You) problem.

Tell us about your campaign, OP.

OP, be honest. Have you ever actually played with a GM like this or are getting mad at imaginary scenarios?

>>95794600
I put shit in quotes because I was quoting a person actually speaking retard.

>>95794740
I have 3 of them,.one traveller one ad&d and one 5e. Which do you want to hear about first?

>>95794575
>The point of a DM is running a good game of dungeons and dragons.

/tg/ I don't think I can beat at this OP on my own. I need (you)r help! Quickly! Repeat the holy phrase:

>Have you tried not playing d&d?!

>>95794924
>>95794575
>>95794420 (OP)
Have you tried not playing d&d?

>>95794420 (OP)
Be real, when have you ever played a freeform roleplaying game, OP? Cause you sound like you just heard the idea of "freeform roleplay" and got offended by your own imagination of what it is.

>>95795053
>freeform
>game
Inherently contradictory.

>>95795322
Elaborate

>>95794872
Yeah you don't have to put quotes in a greentext cockguzzler. Maybe lurk more.

>>95794420 (OP)
Things that never happened.

OP read one too many fake dnd stories on reddit and tried to call them out for it, but got downvoted and now he's here to cry about it

>>95794420 (OP)
Because once you are comfortable enough with your understanding of why the mechanics are the way they are, you can change them as you see fit. This isn't to say that the mechanics don't matter, but the effect they produce is more important than the mechanics themselves.

A couple years back I ran a game that was technically built in FATE accelerated but the players only ever rolled dice a handful of times across the whole of the campaign. Most of the driving force of the game simply didn't need to be arbitrated by the dice, nor would it have been improved by forcing the dice into the game, because it was predominantly a mystery game. The mystery was not solved by "roll to find clue" or "roll to figure out the mystery", it was me giving them access to 45 pages of fake books, recovered notes, doctored newspaper articles, esoteric diagrams, etc and then leaving them to figure out what the connects were themselves and test their theories with the tools available to them. Because the mystery wasn't "who killed mr body", it was "I just bought this hotel and I think there is a demon in the basement, figure out what the fuck is going on" which transformed into "reverse engineer how to be a wizard 101 from whats been left behind by this occultist's club from the 1930s." It was the choices that the players made with the information available that mattered, there was no need to arbitrate with random chance.

This modernist "Nogaems" elitism is so lame.

First of all, who gets to determine whats a game or not? It literally is all arbitrary. This is just complaining about someones technique, when the only thing that matters is the execution. I've played and ran both types of games, and I've always had far more fun in games grounded with mechanics, but that only use them for that, a foundation--where the GM has the BALLS to run the kinda game exactly as he sees it instead of constantly checking in on the "rules" to see if he's doing it "right".

What kinda lame shit is that? Run the GAME you want to run and if you dont like it how about just running your own the way you want to without feeling this insecure need to attack the other about it.

Give it a rest TBE. This is just pathetic.

A great adage comes to mind, "Losers focus on winners. Winners focus on winning." If you find yourself complaining about bullshit more than contributing content you are the problem, not the solution.

>>95796358
The definition of a game is an activity that has rules, it is not arbitrary fag.
If you are trying to run a GAME how you see it, you are not playing a game, you are cheating in front of your players. If you let your players also make shit up then it's freeform RP and that's cool and all but it's not a goddamn game.
I would be fine with all the fags enjoying open roleplay if they didn't drag that shit into my fucking games I am trying to play. I don't want your fucking gay-ass fun you faggots, I'm trying to play a fucking game that makes my be rain throb as it thinks through mechanics to overcome a situation in an optimal manner, it is an activity I find pleasing, fuck off

>>95795340
Games have rules.
Freeform is the absence of rules.

>>95795573
That Professor DM faggot who has ass cancer of whatever, made some video about how you should START DOING THIS and randomly pick numbers PCs have to roll because the rules are all made up and nothing matters anyway, haha le epic reddit nihilism like my smiling friends TV show!!!!1!!

It's retarded hell toward tending thinking. Reductionist faggotry. If you support this shit you're a low effort casual who skims the hobby to show you're not like the other girls (at least you think you're a girl). You don't belong in this hobby. Therefore your opinion is as invalid as an 8 years olds on driving laws.

>>95794420 (OP)
/tg/ hates that stuff and complains about it all the time. What the fuck are you on about, OP?

>>95796771
Aside from shitting your diaper about it, what exactly is wrong about what he said? I enjoy crunchy systems (Mythras, etc), but it is- at the end of the day- arbitrary where to put the modifiers where. Arbitrary doesn't mean inconsistent.

>>95796802
How is he supposed to make a thread about something unless he frames it as complaining about the prevailing opinion, anon?

>>95796771
So you've never actually encountered anything like this in real life and it doesn't affect you in any way or form. You got mad at a YouTube video you didn't like and are now here to cry about it.

>>95796771
Ah, so it's another e-celeb thread.

>>95794420 (OP)
>>95796771
5efags deserve all this and more, play a good game with actual rules next time

>>95796358
Calm down, Super Satan

>>95796817
This is why I prefer roll under systems, or systems like traveller or SWADE where the target number is set. The "10/15/20/20+ based on vibes" of f20 systems just read arbitrary to me.

>>95794420 (OP)
The "by the book" game master does not exist. Rules are for players to follow and game masters to enforce.

>>95794420 (OP)
>you're basically committing fraud
How are people being baited by this?

>>95797096
/tg/ has a long history of turning weak bait into meaningful discussions. Fags like you bitching about bait is why it's become less common.

>>95797108
That was nearly two decades ago, when there was no catalog, and the post limit was less than half what it is now, and unbumped threads would die in two hours or less.

People would derail threads for 100 posts just to kill those threads. Now, if you derail a thread for 100 posts, that thread is still going to stick around for several weeks.

>>95797108
Anon, bros, its 2025. /tg/ hasn't been like that for, what? 10 years? More?

>>95797149
just 9 years, since 2016

>>95797108
I'm sorry you got invested in a troll thread, anon.

>>95796771
>youtube e-celeb has stupid retarded opinion
>but I’ll show him up by having an even more retarded one and tell it to 4chan!
Yeah, you sure showed us who’s got the more fatal case of ass cancer, OP

>>95797131
The really turning point was the loss of unique IP counters

>>95797149
>>95797163
10 years isn't that long.

>>95797176
Kill yourself

>>95796771
Doesn't YouTube have some kind of section where you can comment your opinions on videos?

>>95796725
No, most Freeform games have a rule set. It’s just smaller and less focused on the mathematics side. You moron.

>>95797274
>The really turning point was the loss of unique IP counters

That IS a loss, but I would personally call that a blatant attempt by the mods to cover up the damage and the loss of site traffic than the cause of the loss in the first place. Its like how the mods allow and protect bumpfags and one-line chatbot prompt threads and in fact ban people who report them: because those things are to the benefit of continuing the illusion that 4chan is a healthy site with enough activity to sustain it outside of places like /pol/ and /vg/.

The actual cause of the board's decline I think goes back further to things that damaged the community that made /tg/ what it was in the first place: aggressive moderation and the banning of quests killing /tg/ as a creative hub. I never cared much for quest threads when they were around, but its hard to deny that their removal was a major blow to the board's culture.

>>95797326
>Freeform games have a rule set. It’s just smaller and less focused on the mathematics side.
So rules light then .
Not freeform .

>>95797978
>>95797978
Freeform isn’t about how many rules it has, dumbass. It’s about the rules focusing on presentation and storytelling over hard mechanics governing everything. I.e. You don’t need to roll a die to determine if your pc can eat a sandwich without suffering a heart attack on a nat 1, he just does it.

>>95794452
That's not a game at that point, it's story-time.

>>95796666
>Thinks the GM can cheat
So you never actually read the rules, and then complain about them?

>>95798420
I don't think you know what a game is.

>>95796771
>That Professor DM faggot who has ass cancer of whatever
What part of this anecdote involves /tg/ or anything /tg/ has done or said?

>>95794452
>Anon the whole point of a DM is to make sure the group is having a fun time
thats the job of a clown. the dms job is to host an environment where there is the potential for fun, like any social gathering.

you should fudge rolls sometimes or let a player that's been having a bad time get a kill
rulebook says monsters can have variable hp anyway

>>95794452
>Anon the whole point of a DM is to make sure the group is having a fun time.
no it the fuck isn't
the GM's job is to arbitrate the rules and the setting. the responsibility for having fun actually falls on the players

>>95799689
Don't forget that he also has to get us food, provide a space to play, and let us cum inside his wife/girlfriend/daughter as well!

>>95796771
smiling friends literally btfos nihilists doe?

>>95794420 (OP)
>>95794924
Have you tried not playing d&d?!

>>95797310
it's entirely possible

>>95794452
>Anon the whole point of a DM is to make sure the group is having a fun time.

What you mean is a hooker.

A GM/DM is a role assigned when playing a game. If you don't want to him to runthat specific game you can suggest another game, pick one to run yourself, or look for another hobby.

>>95794420 (OP)
>NOOOOO OOOOO 111111!!!!111
>THIS IS NOT HOW YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO HAVE FUN
nigger it's none of your concern
if my table enjoys that style of play then that's how we can play

It's important to be able to wing it when players do something unexpected but it sucks when the whole adventure is obviously being pulled out of the DM's ass. It breaks the immersion and most DMs aren't as good at it as they think they are.

>>95802812
>picrel
this can't be real

>>95802819
it's real

>>95802819
Average 5e player who has stuck with the system for nearly a decade is exactly like this. They don't read the rules, they don't know how to run the game, they have no idea what they're supposed to use the DMG for, and it's why you hear about so many people who just run the same fucking Curse of Strahd campaign over and over.

>>95796666
>The definition of a game is an activity that has rules, it is not arbitrary fag.
The DM can change the rules at will, stat monsters in any way that they deem appropriate and setup encounters in any way they want.

So it is completely arbitrary.

>>95794452
>The point of the DM is to make sure the group is having a good time

That is flat out incorrect. The point of the DM is to make fair rulings and keep the game moving. The players have a good time by playing the game. That's why everyone is sitting around the fucking table.

>>95797978
Freeform depends on context and consensus. Things that make sense to the people playing, usually looking at the character sheet and what has happen previously at the tablet.

>>95802812
She's not wrong, most games have all the rules they need in one book, D&D it's scummy shit for using 3 books to run a fucking game, just to make you spend more money.

>>95808807
>D&D it's scummy shit for using 3 books to run a fucking game
More to the point it's clunky as fuck, that's why I print out all my monster sheets and use the books for prep only.

>>95808795
Okay so not a set of rules then .

>>95812674
Truly your willful ignorance is astounding

>>95812674
You have autism. If you're playing a game, hypothetically in your case of course, and there are no rules for spellmaking or crafting or whatever then that part of the game is freeform.

>>95812770
>you're playing a game, hypothetically in your case of course, and there are no rules for spellmaking or crafting or whatever then that part of the game is freeform.
Yep. But there are still rules so it's still a game. A complete absence of rules is not a game.

>>95812788
Why do autists get caught up on like, one half of a definition, ignoring the second half and all furhter definitions?

>>95812788
You aren't stupid enough to think freeform means it has no rules whatsoever, are you?

>>95812788
Anything I want can be a game.

>>95812873
Can Milhouse be a game?

>>95795322
Calvinball

>>95794420 (OP)
>>"I just tell the players what number they need to roll, because it's all arbitrary anyway"
I don't see what's wrong with this one, some actions and conditions aren't detailed in the book and is up to the GM discretion how hard this would be to succeed.

>>95794420 (OP)
>>"I just tell the players what number they need to roll, because it's all arbitrary anyway"
If you're playing D&D then challenge difficulty and encounter difficulty has to be completely arbitrary due to the way that PC scaling works.

If you actually had any logical consistency in the setting then you'd either regularly encounter stuff at low level which is completely impossible for you or you'll regularly encounter stuff at high level that's trivially easy.

Isn't it weird how enemies get just strong enough to give you a challenge as you level up and the locks you encounter get better...

>>95797978
Even freeform RP has rules, they're just social standards and norms. The autistic mind cannot comprehend this.

>>95815389
It's not odd if your campaign has the group dealing with more serious threats as they grow in level.

>>95815445
Tabletop games have rules, LARP has rules. If "freeform RP" refers to fags typing to each other on the internet with no game rules, that's not a game.

>>95813008
Calvinball has rules they just add new ones as they go.
Freeform does not have rules.

>>95812836
>You aren't stupid enough to think freeform means it has no rules whatsoever, are you?
So rules lite then.

>>95794420 (OP)

>>dude I don't even use the rules I just roll dice for le funny noise

Cringe.

>>I just tell the players what number they need to roll, because it's all arbitrary anyway

Based. But not because it’s arbitrary.

>>I just make up the monsters hit points, it dies when I feel like it

Cringe.

>>95816640
Wrong
>>95816646
Has as many rules as needed, so not “rules lite”. You’re an idiot.

>>95795573
NAYRT but it does happen, I've been in a game where the DM was clearly just making everything up as he went along. His grasp of the rules was tenuous at best and he didn't even have any books or notes because he "had it all in his head".

>>95816821
>why I read, this not school
>math make brain hurty
Typical "freeform" GMs

>>95816761
>Has as many rules as needed, so not “rules lite”
Okay well the amount of rules you need is arbitrary and so is the definition of rules lite, however freeform is NOT subjective it means absence of rules. Freeform roleplay doesn't have rules. Except maybe rule zero. Which is why freeform is fucking gay.

genuinely, if you're not honoring the established rules of the game (or establishing your own personal rules, and adhering to them), you are not playing a game

>>95825922
>freeform is NOT subjective it means absence of rules
Jesus jumping christ how many times do you eyes glaze over "freeform does not mean an absence of rules" before it actually sticks in that sponge you call a brain? News flash, it's not an either-or situation where it's rules-lite or no rules at all. Most freeform games I've seen have a ruleset, but ones that has little focus on crunchy mathematics for mechanics, aka no shit like classes, levels, exp, stats, or whatever. They'll more often focus on how to handle disagreements between players or the game master, obvious rule patches like sticking to the abilities that or skills on your character sheet, or telling people to not act like shitheads to each other OOC.

>Freeform roleplay doesn't have rules
Play one sometime instead of just hammering it in that you've zero understanding of what you're even saying, you actual degenerate

>>95796666
>The definition of a game is an activity that has rules
In what dictionary?

>>95794420 (OP)
>"I just make up the monsters hit points, it dies when I feel like it"

I do this but only to the extent where I can justify it, not getting super silly, making something take one more or less hits to drop can make a big difference. Like if the fight is going too well one way or the other I can make it harder/easier by using this and a few other subtle methods no one can call me out on aside for being a mind reader, for example an enemy spell list is not set in stone before they actually cast, reinforcements are expected in some situations but you can always alter the number, etc.

I'd expect most GMs not running premade modules to know how to do this, but then most people can't even run modules well.

>>95794420 (OP)
I freeform DM/GM and my players love my adventures but don't know that I freeform until I tell them after but they don't care because the games flow so smoothly and everyone has fun and my freeforming allows me to let the players choose where to go and I never railroad them just procedurally generate entire fantasy worlds down to whatever detail my players care to examine and there's nothing you can do about it.

>>95828657
>I'd expect "good" GMs (such as myself) know how to do this
If those changes don't have any randomization you're just putting your thumb on the scale in a different way. Still being a dynamic difficulty fag.

>>95794420 (OP)
I have the opposite problem. I really don't care about RAW at all, but I turn everything into mechanics and procedure and I can't stop myself. I am also a simulationist retard and abstracting/skipping over boring things is hard for me.

>>95799633
this mentality leads to a lot of GM burnout because it makes the dice rolls the GM's responsibility, which kind of defeats the whole point of using dice in the first place (said point being that it's specifically not someone at the table making the decision after you commit to rolling the dice).
the GM already has enough on their plate just with crap like encounter and adventure design, don't make them also have to decide exact outcomes of dice rolls.

>>95831472
Don't think of abstraction and simulation as separate things things, all simulation is an abstraction at some point, and all abstractions exist to simulate something.
Every possible combination of die rolls can be combined into a mathematically equivalent single roll. You can have all the simulation you want AND not spend hours rolling dice by just baking in all the probabilities and doing a single roll to determine the outcome.
That's actually what freeform DMing is, you just use your brain to think about the action being taken, determine all the possible outcomes, assign probabilities to them, and then map that onto a set of dice rolls. The reason this is possible is due to a combination of experience and intuition. Intuition is based on millions of years of evolution for judging dangerous scenarios to determine the more likely result, and experience is just realizing most thing repeat endlessly and are basically equivalent so once you've got a finished die roll for a few common situations you almost never have to even think about them anymore and can just add on little patches for changing circumstances.

>>95794452
Absolutely not.

>>95794670
Not busted.
Retard.

>>95794872
The symbol ">" indicates a quote. It replaces quotation marks. There is no need to use both.

What did you think that symbol meant?

>>95816761
Wrong.

>>95796358
Not arbitrary. Games have rules.

>>95798396
Yes, it literally is, dumbass. If a game uses a rules set, it is not freeform. If it doesn't, it is. That is what it means to be freeform. That's the whole definition.

>>95796817
Everything, retard. Some ways of playing are good and right and other are wrong and bad, and I am the authority on which games belong to each category.

>>95794924
>>95794420 (OP)
Have you tried not playing d&d?!

>>95797096
He's right, retard.

>>95798931
Clearly you don't.

>>95799633
No.

>>95808510
Not at all.

>>95812822
Freeform means no rules. There are no halves of the definition anyone is getting caught up on and no one is ignoring anything. You're just wrong.

>>95815445
Social standards aren't rules and norms aren't rules. A rule is a set of one or more words that appears in a rulebook.

>>95794872
The one where you stop gargling cock for five fucking seconds. Oh wait, doesn't exist!

>>95826840
Freeform means an absence of rules. It is a binary, and a quite simple one. You're wrong and I'm right.

>>95797355
Huh, that explains a lot. Here's to another few years of worthless parasites like OP!

>>95833274
You legitimately have zero understanding of what a game is, apparently

Ironic.

>>95833254
No, freeform means "freedom of form", esl retard. Otherwise it would be "ruleless"

No, it means without a rule set.

>95833338
Idiot

Retard.

Language itself operates on a system of rules, thus anything spoken is rules-hard. A game can only be entirely free of rules if the DM just screams random gibberish while flailing his arms. Even then the laws of physics apply.

No.

>>95794420 (OP)
You have to understand that this board is a pure reddit colony at this point, and whatever results in good feelio wholesome chungus updoots is good for karma which is good for them.
>>95794452
Case in fucking point.

>>95833188
It's the maymay arrow from reddit

>>95794420 (OP)
>STOP LIKING WHAT I DON'T LIKE!!
Not everyone needs a guidebook to teach them how to play pretend, dude. No reason to blow a gasket over it.

>95833188
Greentext is broader than simply quoting word for word. It can include a summation of the post being referred to, a description of events that have happened, or just insulting a newfag like (You).

I only use rules and dice because I want my players to have the possibility of losing. I don’t want victory or defeat to be tied entirely to my arbitrary whims.

>>95834601
No.

>>95834706
>Actually quoted my post
I win.

>>95834857
On the contrary.

>>95794420 (OP)
I DO just roll dice to make the funny noise.
I DO tell players the results of their rolls.
I DO ignore monster statblocks and just go by the feel of the situation.
And you CAN'T do anything about it.

>>95834912
No.

>>95835041
On the contrary.

>>95794420 (OP)
>Blatant bait thread to extract (You)s
>Even it can't cross 150 posts over 6 days
This board is beyond walking dead

>>95834965
Nah but if I ever figured it out I'd leave your game immediately

>>95836548
What do you expect when most of the posts are by the same retards who don't even play games trying to lecture people on the subject? Even for bait it's just plain embarrassing as shit.

>>95794452
You are so fucking wrong, it hurts. The PLAYERS are the ones who are supposed to provide the fun, not the other way around.

>>95840326
So you can't actually tell the difference, rendering the whole point moot since at the end of the day they achieve the same basic result?

>>95799633
No, you shouldn't. Don't play a dice game if you don't like dice. All you're doing is undermining the players who built their characters correctly. It's no different than Commanderfags allowing unlimited mulligans at the start of the game; you're literally punishing the other players who made consessions to assure their build works.

If you're a Cleric and you don't have your WIS as high as you can get it, you deserve to miss all your spells.

>>95831007
Plato's cave.

>>95840987
cry harder dmoid

>>95841047
Indeed, freeform players are trapped in the cave.

>>95794420 (OP)
>you're basically committing fraud
Which is based, because taxation is theft.

Also, >>95794452 . If the players aren't having fun, who gives a shit if you're a faggot rules lawyer with a stick up your ass, you played by the rules and lost the game because all your players fucked off to go have fun instead of have you shit on the fun of the game by going ERM NO YOU CANT DO THAT THE RULES DONT HAVE A 300 PAGE MECHANIC THAT LETS YOU DO THAT REEEE

>>95843234
This is a pretty extreme overreaction.

>>95843234
lol coping playoid

>>95843234
Did your GM refuse to let you take over the Kingdom after you rolled a natty 20 on your charisma check with the king?

>players bragging about how they always trick the DM and just ignore all the stuff he prepared for the session doing whatever lol so randumb shit instead
>"its just about having fun dude"
>go apeshit when the DM has a little fun himself giving them a bullshit encounter or when he uses his powers to tell them "no"
Fuck players.

>>95843669
What the fuck is a "playoid" KILL YOURSELF YOU FAT GREASY JIGGER (JEWISH NIGGER) I HATE TG I HATE THIS FUCKING BOARD SO MUCH

>>95851953
Was it really worth bumping this dead thread just to out yourself as the newest of newfags?

>>95794573
>I dunno, I feel like the rules are important to create a world from which you can then have ideas and plans. If there aren't rules on a thing, it's not something you can actually plan around without bothering the GM every step of the way. Which means you basically can only plan so far ahead.
Yeah, the problem is modern D&D only has rules for combat, and no real implied setting, so you can't plan anything other than what to buy with your XP next level.

>>95794420 (OP)
Reminds me of Lord of the Dice. This was a problem back in 1979, enough that there was a parody written about it.

>>95851953
lol playoid's mad

>>95855489
Had to look it up. It's so barren it's almost depressing.

lol

lol

>>95794420 (OP)
I am the schizo dice divination GM

The dice decide

D10s are cursed because they're not platonic solids

lol