Come on and biomantic slam edition

Previous Heresy: >>95843320

>HH 3.0 Leaks
https://imgur.com/a/wuHWyoO

>New Edition Soon™
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
https://youtu.be/1bZW7ANLaA0

>New to The Horus Heresy? Here’s Everything You’ll Need to Get Started
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/30/new-to-the-horus-heresy-heres-everything-youll-need-to-get-started/
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)
https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8
https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS
>30k TACTICA & TIPS
https://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/2.0_Tactics/General_Tactics
>Megas are done, mega anon will get to them later

>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/
>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colours
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview
>More lists
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions
>What size magnets do I need?
5x1mm
>Tactics
https://1d6chan.miraheze.orug/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics

>Thread question:
How impacted is your usual lists by new FOC?

>>95847964 (OP)

>>95848014
Anon you do know that ROW still exist and that more then likely its going to replace the base FOC Crusade chart with something that lets you take terminators instead right? You did read the rules right?

Anyone have any thoughts for new loadouts post the challenge rules? A champion with the paragon buffs seems pretty solid now, 5 attacks, ws7, pick finishing blow and youre still going before the enemy if theyre a terminator with thunder hammer (most likely, 2d6 drop highest is still on average more than d6-4 I imagine).

So you get 6 attacks hitting on 3s wounding on 2s with d2 and maybe critical strike or whatever.

I like the idea of HH being its own game instead of being a rehash of old-/nu-40k. It’s best to leave all of 40k behind, a clean break.

>>95848040
today's article said legions get specific detachments. I'd say that is a RoW

>>95847964 (OP)
I will have to wait and see what they do with mechanicum and if they will switch around any unit types like it seems they are doing with the marines.
Liking the new system way more than the old one though.

>>95847964 (OP)
>How impacted is your usual lists by new FOC?
How are we supposed to know if we don't know what unit is which type?

>>95848041
I’m generally gravitating towards the idea that a fast weapon with regular power armor/artificer armor using a +D gambit is going to be the best duelist.

>>95847964 (OP)
>How impacted is your usual lists by new FOC?
I wouldn't know, since this new system is so unintuitive and ass-backward that I can't quite say yet.
Assuming I read everything totally correctly (unlikely) I'll need approximately ten billion centurions over the two I use currently.

>>95848066
make it up

>>95848070
I think we are of the same mind on that. I dont think it reliably kills everyone in one go, but its reliable enough that the speed difference vs fists and hammers will be relevant.

>>95848046
it's certainly a break from the player-base, as they won't be able to get any new customers to play 30k anymore.

>>95847964 (OP)
>How impacted is your usual lists by new FOC?
I’m a bolter pig so not at all, but rules-wise I’m probably going to want to add centurions for better cool/led among my various tac squads.

>>95848065
I'm expecting Cybernetica to be an apex detachment of warmarchines with a prime benefit that equals Paragon of Metal

>>95848083
It's been absolutely horrible then
I can't believe all of my units somehow ended in the Elites slot that you can only take 3 of

High Command: Praetor
-Apex Detachment: Officer Cadre (2 Centurions)
--Aux Detachments: Tactical Support x4 (8x 20-man Tactical Squads)
Command: 3x Centurions
-Aux Detachments: Tactical Support x6 (12x 20-man Tactical Squads)
--Logistical Benefit: Troops (20-man Tactical Squads)
Troops: 4x 20-man Tactical Squads
Transports: 0

This puts 1 praetor, 5 centurions, and 500 marines on the table.

Has it never been more over or are we so back?

>>95848040
Not to mention a single centurion and a single praetor gives you access to 3 vet squads and 4 terminator squads with the option to add 2 more of either in any combination

>>95848106
>so many marines that a whole company of them will have to be kept in reserve
narrative gold

>>95847964 (OP)
I ran a codex company for my UM scouring list already and this FOC change made it easier to cram the units I want in, it objectively got easier for me
>>95848066
It's really not that hard to guess what is what for 80% of units

>>95847964 (OP)
>Tq.
I've ran stone gauntlet the past few games, so badly for that. But I've been wanting to use more tanks, hopefully they are algood again

>>95847419
>character to far away to accept challenge

It literally says in the book to move models so they can get into B2B, cringe move. All the Chads part ways to let their sgts Duke it out.

>>95848118
LIgma players eating good, since this is a rehash of the force org and at least a few designs/mechanics.

>>95848106
I see you found the "enemy forces in a HH novel" army.

>>95848118
Why don't you form your own opinion you loser

>>95848118
it's so over. They changed 80% of the game for the sake of change, zero thought to any game design at all.

We're in the 3 year clusterfuck system now with drastic changes like 8th, 9th, 10th edition 40k every 3 years to make sure nothing is ever good long-term, just constant fuck-up non-sensical change forever (hail tzeentch)

>>95848137
Currently models that are not engaged (not in b2b or within 2" of friendly model in b2b) at the point where challenges are issued cannot issue/accept challenges.

>>95848139
LI has some really good ideas... and a few balance problems lol

>>95848118
Honestly I like what I’ve seen. Can’t wait to see what the libers offer. Just give me plastic termites man.

>>95848106
Truly this is the greatest edition

>>95848118
both
a lot of horseshit but it looks fun to leap into

>>95848118
Brutal is gone, so that's a win in my book.

>>95847964 (OP)
>TQ
DESU pretty good already planning my list, the extra HQ slot is a fucking god send,
Planning on doing a POTL with 2 LR and a spartan or maybe just a fucking crusade detatchment im not sure.

But with the extra HQ slot, i can finally possibly swing taking a overseer to have my guard in the backline camping shit.

>>95848162
Currently as in 2.0? As pg 199 would disagree with you

>>95848041
Depends on the weapon profiles and if HQ models got buffs to wounds/attacks, if your standard HQs are all still 2-3 wounds there’s no reason to not just go for an at initiative AP2 weapon and use seize the initiative (if enough attacks base) or grandstand (in a big squad) to slide a few wounds through before your opponent can do anything
>finishing blow is the objectively correct choice if you’re confident your opponent can’t kill you in one turn
>guard up probably has a strong use case for low-A relatively even duels
>feint likely has a place against a particular OP legion/character gambit or a specific wargear+gambit combo
>don’t really see a reason to use taunt, test, or flurry
I think finishing blow and grandstand also have an extremely strong use case with duelist edge models or fighting wounded/heavy guys, worth noting roll two pick highest/lowest is iirc really only a +/-1 on average, compared to potential double attacks or damage

>>95848209
Check page 198 "Accepting a Challenge"

>>95847964 (OP)
>TQ
>Crusade (Primary)
Praetor (HC)
Centurion (Prime, Logistics, Comm)
Champion (Comm)
Librarian (Comm)
Command Squad (Retinue, Logistics)

>Vanguard (Apex)
Veteran Assault Squad (Prime, Elite, Logistics)
Veteran Assault Squad (Elite)
Veteran Tactical Squad (Elite)

>Armored Fist (Aux)
Land Raider (Heavy Transport)
Land Raider (Heavy Transport)
Land Raider (Heavy Transport)

>Armored Support (Aux)
Predator (Armor)
Predator (Armor)
Vindicator (Armor)
Kratos (Armor)

>Armored Support (Aux)
Predator (Armor)
Predator (Armor)
Vindicator (Armor)
Kratos (Armor)

>Armored Support (Aux)
Predator (Armor)
Predator (Armor)
Vindicator (Armor)
Sicaran (Armor)
Now I just need to see the points

>>95848106
But how many marines will you be painting young shitposter?

>>95848237
The thing is im not confident you are really likely to go first with something like a thunder hammer even if you seize the initiative. Probably more for people with something like a terranic greatsword or something, hope for an alpha strike highroll.

>>95847964 (OP)
>TQ
60 Tactical Marines with upgrades never fails, will never be obsolete and makes it hard to pivot into something that would break these rules. I need to add another Consul though.

Leaker anon:
Are master crafted and prefered ennemy still a thing ?

>>95848282
None, just field them grey.

>>95848276
Actually I'm dumb and not event using ond of my Logistics slots, I can put the Retinue in the Apex detachment via Logistics and get Paragon of battle on my champion

Desperately interested in making an EC army now that we’ve seen a lot of the rules, but they would ideally be in mkIV armor. Please geedubs, give us an updated mkIV tac marine kit. I’m sick at the thought of putting beautiful Emperor’s Children in mkII or mkIII

>>95848106
I have 60 Tacs and unironically want 60 Despoilers with heavy chainblades but I don't trust myself to paint them all.

>>95848316
Y tho?

>>95847964 (OP)
So does this mean people bitching about no one choosing tacticals are wrong again?

>>95848237
flurry seems okay with charnabal on weaker characters to fish for some damage before getting wrecked

>>95848332
EC should be in sleek, elegant armor. Only the mkIV is beautiful enough for them.

>>95848333
Watch command squads with banner have line(8) or something dumb.


>>95848335
Charnabal wants final strike. you probably still go first and the d2 and +1S is more significant to you as a damage increase.

>>95848316
mk4 is 100% coming next year. So wait a bit and get started with HQs, tanks or mk6.

>>95848333
depends entirely upon whether line gets handed out like candies. It’s it’s distributed evenly among the legions and not given to units that shouldn’t have it, then yes people will want tacs/despoilers.

>>95848342
but you really want 6s for breaching, more attacks lets you fish

>>95848358
Would you rather those breaches be 2 damage or 1 damage? Its not like sgt fights are still a thing

>>95848364
That's fair — as Sgt duels require both to have the Prime upgrade. But if sgt is into something stronger and faster, Im not sure the diff between A+2 and 2*A is always enough to risk going second.

Leakerchad please return. I need night fight rules pls

>>95848288
I agree, I think at initiative AP2 is the only time to really jump on seize, and that’s also only if you have enough attacks and WS to mean you’re reliably killing them in one go
A paragon of battle champion is the perfect example, they’ll reliably kill other centurions before they can even hit back, but anything less probably better to guard or finishing blow and just milk +1D

I hope guys have more wounds now otherwise D2 is way too useful and I don’t see how it won’t be brutal 2.0

>>95848118
the assault phase is so over the top and unnecessary

>>95848429
If sgt into something stronger and faster it doesn’t matter he’s dead either way, unless he takes a fist/hammer in a squad of 20 tacs and exclusively hunts characters in 5-man retinue squads

>>95848442
>it won’t be brutal 2.0
Brutal had a really nasty interaction with instant death, so its not quite the same.

>>95848492
True, I meant more that just like in 2.0 every non-brutal weapon had to fight to justify its existence as a melee option when the easier and deadlier brutal existed, so will non-D2 weapons in 3.0
Initiative losses will assumably be the general offset but if paragon blades are D2 it’s over

>>95848041
Always Seize unless you need to deactivate a legion specific gambit. There is no point in not striking first and just killing your opponent. All these other choices have no value if you're dead before swinging.

but why arent terminators in the same detachment as land raiders?

>>95848555
One is a tank and the other is a dude hope this helps.

>>95848442
The lack of brutal has to do with instant death. Against a thunder hammer in 2.0 you had to pass your 4++ twice per wound (1/4 chance) or die. Now with D2 you only have to pass your 4++ once per wound (1/2 chance) or die.

>>95848555
detachment tax, which is by extension a command tax

>>95847964 (OP)
>TQ
I'm pretty sure the list I had planned for 2.0 is basically now kaput. I don't know how doomer mode I'm supposed to be since there's still too many unknown factors for me
>State of SA (how tercios work/if they exist, are there gonna be ways for veletaris to be troops, will legate marshals count as high command etc.)
>Are legiones Auxillia gonna be a thing or is that getting scrapped
>How allied detachments work (can they ride in the same transport, can they join units together etc.)
>What kind of benefits will each legion get
Until then I guess I just gotta work on the models I got since it's practically impossible to make a safe purchase at this point

>>95848571
Twice, centurions hsve either 3 or 4 wounds now

we have yet to see exactly how all the legion or rite specific detachments will take shape of course
bros complained about being forced to field tacticals and now they have to play herohammer

Very clear from all these questions y’all have about the force org that nobody played LI. Thousands of words spilled on the internet leading up to this release worrying about 3.0 becoming 40k when the game it ended up aping was right there lurking in the shadows.

>>95848581
to take a terminator squad in a land raider, you must bring an extra HQ at minimum
fuck this gay earth

i had a talon of three contemptors

>>95848612
i had 3 predators, 2 sicarans and 2 kratos in my list, AND i was gonna put 3 boxnauts in it

>>95848612
>>95848622
You still can run them.

>>95848600
One HQ gets you a detachment for either termies or LRs, and if you put that HQ in the prime slot, you can logistics in the other one.

>>95848627
this is so but to do so skews things drastically based off what we have on hand as of now
i'm not really offended by it though

>>95848078
>I'll need approximately ten billion centurions over the two I use currently.
Considering two centurions unlock 4 auxiliary detachments you either didn't get it or you are playing an incredibly skewed list

>>95848651
Tanks not really but this is a pretty focused nerf to dreads. Like, you can still do a dread skew list but it's gonna be way less points efficient. I think it's better than just nerfing them to the ground.

>>95847964 (OP)
>How impacted is your usual lists by new FOC?
Let me see if I can translate it. I assume Destroyers aren't elites since they aren't vets. I would assume they and assault marines are Shock Assault but warcom makes it sound termi only.

>Crusade
Strike Captain Maun (Or Praetor if he doesn't get rules again)
Kaedes Nex, Chaplain, Moritat
10 Man Tac (Master Sarge), 10man Tac
>Vanguard
Dark Furies(Paragon of Battle), Mor Deythan, Nemesis Vets
>Heavy Support
Contemptor
>Heavy Support
Contemptor
>Shock Assualt(or whatever Destroyers are)
10 Assault Destroyers, 10 Mortalis Destroyers

That leaves a Amazon Prime benefit for my command line. This is just over 2k. I guess its fine?

>>95848106
And..... how many points is that ? How come we get leaks on the shitty stuff but not points values ?

>>95848697
>How come we get leaks on the shitty stuff but not points values
Well, if you spent even the slightest bit of time reading, you'd know the leakanon only has the rulebook, not the libers. And if you ever played, you'd know the libers have the points.

>>95847964 (OP)
In the catalog the OP thumbnail read like "Romantic Slam"

>>95848587
Proofs? That totally changes the challenge dynamic imo
If your regular cent is 3W 4A (or god forbid, 3W 3A) that’s a totally different world

The more base attacks champion/command models have on average the more it favors hitting first, but the more wounds they have the more it favors hitting harder

i think there are still going to be rites of war but their overall shape will change

>>95848726
>Proofs?
We got this a week ago.

Terminators!

>Compulsory FOC choices no longer exist
>Aren't forced to fill any detachment
>Can agree to any point total for a game - including 0
No model anons rejoice, they even thought of you!

>>95848735
Terminators again with the light on.

>>95848587
damn that’s right. do we know if TH are D3 now or not?

>mfw I only ever ran a 1 or 2 HQ's for my DG.

>TQ
Yes, I just started building Solar Auxilia.

Can we see build instruction for the Saturnine praetor and terminators?

>>95848743
>The time has come, brothers

>>95848735
>>95848743
>turn 1 nightfighting

I present to you your new force org chart. Praetors are captains, centurions are lieutenants. The more company assets that are fielded, the more officers you need in order to manage all of them, makes sense.

>>95848779
>>95848775
The dead spider was already there but we all know they killed it.

>>95848737
I'm just glad they included game size above 5K.

>>95848789
pretty much

>>95848622
>i was gonna put 3 boxnauts in it
They saved you from infamy and NPCtaste

>>95848803
>The culling of the megarachnids, circa m.30

>>95847964 (OP)
Dedicated transports are gone.
Chances are my drill list is dead, and I'm gonna have to overhaul it.
Irksome.

Fuck this bloathammer 30k edition

>>95848841
Filtered lmao

>>95848826
Clearly a subspecies. Now the clock and flash drive are secure. Shame I can’t post their other squad mates since I have to fix them up.

>>95848834
If it’s anything like LI, and it looks like that’s where the design cues are coming from, there will be a RoW that’s a detachment where you get drills for all your guys.

>>95848841
it's okay brainlet, you can still play the dumbo version of 2.0 with the sub 80 IQ hobbylets.

>>95848834

>>95848612
That's just a stock centurion and consul that you were probably going to take anyways

>>95848859
Nah, thank you my dear mongo friend. I'd rather stick to 1.0

praetor tax
centurion tax
apothecary/techmarine detachment tax
when basically every single legion(?) prior was able to field their power armour elites as line troops under a rite of war before and people were complaining about a tactical tax lmfao
this is all very bittersweet i generally like what i'm seeing thoughbeit

>>95848290
add a toilet brush to some marine's helmet, done

>>95848902
they want you to field more than 5K points now.

So steel rain is dead, yeah?

>>95848871

>>95848902
You will field an army in compliance with the Principia Belicosa and you will like it.

>>95848920
My brother in Christ, he circled the transport slots.

>>95848912
HH 2.0's core book would have also made steel rain dead, wait for libers

>>95848912
almost certainly not

>>95848920
You're not the brightest are you

>>95848789
That's something I would have liked to see.

>>95848927
>>95848938
Transports, yes. Plenty of slots for those. DEDICATED TRANSPORTS, those are gone. You know, the transport that came in the same slot as the unit it belonged to? Fucking morons.

>>95848924
Based and correct take

>>95848902
I actually like that the 'tax' unit if you want to be a spamming faggot is like a 3w centurion who isn't nearly as useful as a tactical marine squad (no line, easy to kill, etc)

Rulebook anon plz

WS chart/cover rules/nite fight rulez

>>95848931
2.0's rulebook didn't explicitly say you can only deepstrike one unit per turn (in fact, it was clear that all deepstrikes happened in one go) with the sole exception of certain missions (which aren't in the libers)
>>95848934
I don't see how not, given the rules we've been given.

>>95848949
It is essentially what they’ve given us, unfortunately the QA team or whatever equivalent has laid it out in a very unintuitive way.

>>95848952
Anon try to fire up those few neurons you have. Why not using a slot was a benefit in 2.0?

>>95848697
>how many points is that?
In 2.0 with only vanilla units, it's 5420, but there enough sinks to get to 6000 or very close. The points value will likely be close in 3.0

>>95848971
All of the rules that enabled drop pod assault armies in 2.0 were in the libers, which right now we don’t have. It looked the same way in LI until they released the drop pod assault company.

I bet consuls like overseers, forge lords, and maybe praevians will give you a special auxilliary detchment for their army additions.

>>95848952
A DT is more limiting than any available transport that can carry your dudes.
Example: Termies can have LR variant X as DT in 2.0, not Y which is a Heavy Sup unit instead. Now it doesn't matter. Troops could have Rhinos. Now they can have Rhinos, Pods, Drills or they can deep strike via catapult or hard kick to the ass. So what is the matter?

>>95848969
WS is unchanged

>>95848992
>All of the rules that enabled drop pod assault armies in 2.0 were in the libers
Wrong. Deep Strike and Deep Strike assaults were in the core book.
Deep Strike and Deep Strike assaults are also in this core rulebook. Here, have a highlighted version:
Pray tell what part of the libers will change the special rule or the missions? Are there missions in the libers? It doesn't say detachments can change this. It doesn't say RoWs can. It says missions.

>>95849004
>Troops could have Rhinos. Now they can have Rhinos, Pods, Drills or they can deep strike via catapult or hard kick to the ass.
Do they? I assume the unit will still have specific transports they can embark on listed.

>>95849016
That would really suck. 4 vs 5 in 2.0 was abysmal and ToW does it much better

>>95849029
>I assume the unit will still have specific transports they can embark on listed.
Why?

>>95849028
Anon, where are the rules for a drop pod assault. Not the rite of War, the reserve action.

>>95849028
all it takes is one sentence saying that drop pods can all come in at once. You can’t possibly think they’ve actually gotten rid of drop pod assault after putting out a warcom article advertising that HH gets to keep its regular drop pods instead of the shitty nu-40k ones

>>95849029
true, I can't know that yet. But if they have specific transports then there is no difference to the old DTs in most cases (unless we e.g. double the prime slot for troops in the main detachment while already having 4 transports and there is no slot for the 5th. I guess life is hard then.)

>morale from Necromunda
>force org from Ligma
What rules are we getting from Blood Bowl?

>>95849071
Tackling

>>95849029
Probably not. But there's likely still an ?Infantry transport' rule that prevents the transports from carrying anything with Bulky
Or maybe this is the edition we finally see terminators on a rhino. They did it for oks in 40k so why not

>>95849076
World Eaters legion rule

>>95849076
>SA rifleman dogpiling and spear tackling tacticals to try and pin them down for bayonet stabbing
Sounds peak to me

>>95849071
GFI, can’t wait to run with my despoilers and trip and fall

>>95849040
Dunno I just don't think they'll want tacs in a spartan by default.

I wonder if Terminators will get a rule that let's combi bolters count as assault

leakanon pls drop pod and dreadnought rules (are they still their own subtype?)

>>95849107
Spartans will probably be heavy transport, so you need to take am armored fist

What do Critical Hits do?

For weapons with Suppressive X and Pinning X, what is the X for?

>>95849111
I don't think so for dreadnoughts, there was a rule somewhere that called out vehicles, Automata, and walkers

>>95849107
It's really not any different that what we have right now. You have to buy the spartan separately either way

>>95849071
Throw teammate

>>95849082
>>95849119
notably they had vets hopping out of Spartans in the trailer, so you can probably put whatever you want in them.

>>95849135
Stunty

>>95849111
Those will be in the Libers, which leaker anon doesn't have.

Also starting the pinkertons might have got to him after all, been a while since he posted.

>>95848952
what uh

what else are you gonna put in the brand-new Transports slots there bucko

What's the ratio of marine players to solar auxilia and mechanicum in your area?

Is rule of 3 still a thing? If that is a thing 3 centurions and 3 praetors might be a limiting factor for the detachments you can take.

>>95849071
Cheerleaders

>>95849167
About 50/50 since SA and Mech got plastic models.

>>95849169
Anon you can't even take more than 1 praetor

>>95849181
What? Of course you can

>>95849169
>Is rule of 3 still a thing?
There has never been anything like that in HH you fucking tourist.

>>95849167
I'd say maybe 25% of the armies I face, but a lot of marine players have mech or Auxilia allies from impulse buying. (Tyst they never use lol)

>>95849158
drop pods sure, but a man can dream.
but i expect dreadnought/walker or whatever it's going to be called to be in the core book since it has been there in 2.0 too

>>95849185
Anon who do you think high command is for

>>95849185
Very unlikely since that is a probably the High command unit

>>95849199
you think you are limited to a single high command? Because you aren't.

>>95849203
Anon...

>>95849181
yes you can, via officer prime slot and choosing Special Assignment to upgrade the officer to a high officer. It doesn't change the slot though.

>>95849167
5 guys
8 marine armies
1 deamon army
1 mechanicum army

>>95849203
with all detachments we have seen so far, yes you are

>>95849210
Right yeah, so you can take 2 if you give up an Amazon prime and a detachment

>>95849127
Critical Hits: on a hit roll of X+, counts a successful wound roll (and a wound roll of 6), and get +1 damage

The X in pin and suppress is a negative Cool test modifier

so who does 3.0 appeal to specifically

>>95849207
>>95849212
Anon...

People who love the new FOC secretly just want to play punch up with He-mans instead of playing a combined arms wargame.

>>95849219
exactly

>>95849225
read you fucking retard

>>95848871
Yeah, but I'm gonna need at least 3more HQs to field the other stuff that starts on the board.
One more for the terminators, one for their transports, one for the tank, and if I take recons to better call stuff in, 2 more.
And that's assuming drills fit in those, not just rhinos.

We'll see, but I'm thinking I may be at risk. I'll be able to adapt, but sad if it disappears on me.

>>95849225
does this give another high command slot?
no it does not, LITERALLY says so.

>>95849236
I think you are very confused anon

>>95849091
How many riflemen does it take to tackle and pin down a single marine?

>>95849223
me

>>95849135
>"Alright little solar auxilla, I'm out of ammo so now it's time to punch an entire belt of live grenades down your mortal throat and hurl you by your leg like a human bola at mk3 towards the enemy"

>"Of course my lord! Glory to the empr*ack*"

>>95849220
Awesome, thanks anon

>>95849246
It allows you to take another High Command Unit
So yes, you can absolutely take more than a single Praetor. You can take up to 3.

New missions aren't in the core book ? Or did I miss the pics of Mission's leak ?

>>95849246
Literally read Special Assignment

>>95849016
machine god please no. the 2.0 chart is one of the worst changes GW has made to heresy. I hate the recycled 8th ed 40k to wound table with a sloppy paintjob as a WS chart

>>95849244
Oh, I forgot my command retinue, too, which is more influential than the allied recon I've never used.

>>95849270
no pics of that yet

>>95849265
with allied detachments you can have as many as you want really, you can even have an allied detachment consisting of only a praetor

>>95849276
>>95849265
Yes but thats not the same as a high command slot since you don't het apex detachment

>>95849223
Me

>>95849276
bro how retarded are you, literally read it is says it does not change the SLOT

>>95849305
Why the fuck would that matter.

>>95849315
BECAUSE WE ARE DISCUSSING SLOTS YOU ABSOLUTE MORON

>>95849299
on the other hand why take multiple Praetors in the first place. 1.0 and 2.0 had a min points cost for taking that dude at all. Taking 2 is like taking 2 chapter masters in 40k which doesn't really exist. If that guy is just a dude with better stats we can get this in another way.

>>95849223
Brand slaves who always think the current new thing is the best thing ever.

>>95849293
Yeah, I am waiting for that. It would be something already seen if GW wrote the army list rules to allow infinite allies and then you get a rule somewhere in the missions that say you can take only a percentage of those or you are limited to a single ally.

>>95849320
No you fucking dumbfuck, read the reply chain. Some anon said "you can take 3 Praetors and 3 Centurions" which is true, and you guys said he's wrong. Holy shit.

>>95849223
idiots like me who love to make lists according to the principia belicosa

>>95849293
You are telling me I can field the Praetor equivalent of the power rangers?

>>95849265
[Crusade detachment]
Praetor
Praetor (Special Assignment)
Centurion
[Officer Cadre]
Praetor (Special Assignment)

[Allied Detachment] (Repeat Ad Nauseam)
Praetor (Special Assignment)
Centurion

>>95849324
it's a thought exercise and it's funny

>>95849299
In case you joined the reply chain later, the argument was not that, anon claimed that you couldn't take more than a single Praetor in an army max.

>>95849328
This is objectively better than 2.0 so far though.

>>95849330
Well, no, you can only have 2 Praetors.

>>95849249
Probably like...9 or 10? I could have sworn reading something about the average space marine being 500kg with armour on, I'm sure 10 dudes could push that amount of weight over and also hold said amount down

>>95849330
oh my god you are actually retarded. i have never claimed that was wrong, i said you can't have more than 1 high command SLOT.

>>95849347
One in High Command
One as Special Assignment in the Prime Command slot
Take Officer Cadre - Third as the Prime Command slot in that detachment

>>95849225
I mean, you are sacrificing a LOT to take 1 extra praetor with that

>>95849169
What are you talking about? The rule of what?

>>95849357
Anon...

>>95849169
>Is rule of 3 still a thing? If that is a thing 3 centurions and 3 praetors might be a limiting factor for the detachments you can take.
>>95849181
>Anon you can't even take more than 1 praetor
>>95849185
>What? Of course you can

>>95849277
>the 2.0 chart is one of the worst changes GW has made to heresy
Agreed, it's one of the biggest flaws of 2.0, I can't believe it made it through to another edition

>>95849370
Officer Cadre only has regular command slots.

>>95849392
No?

>>95849392
Nevermind I'm retarded

level a complaint about the weapon skill chart without being assmad about getting mogged on by melee elites as it's rightfully illustrating anyhow

>>95849207
Now that I'm seeing this, Allied detachments are pretty great, aren't they?
You can take a shit ton more units that before and starting with 2 HQs already lets you take militia without having to choose between providences and non shit HQ units, if they still work the same

It's insane how the edition changes and leaks have just proven how incapable people are of reading and comprehending rules, and more then that, just how many heresy anons in the heresy thread don't actually play horus heresy.

what the fuck are you people doing here seriously

>>95849341
As long as you slave your own ego to the brand you base your whole personality around, the newest will always be best.

>>95849419
>what the fuck are you people doing here seriously

I was always interested in HH but the ruleset never caught my fancy, so I am in the threads to see how the new edition is

>>95849414
Never mind Militia. You can run your whole army as Allied Detachments with 0 models of your primary faction and get a better HQ to nonHQ ratio.

>>95849414
you can basically take 10 legions at once. Maybe they made this for the Blackshield players.

>>95849419
They weren't here before, it's a huge bunch of people that got here because of the announcements. They always trip over some shit and out themselves.

>>95849440
This is just going to incentivice my inability to choose a legion...
I'm going to end up with a preator and random legion unit of each at this point...

>>95849419
reading?!
just post random take and have anons translate it into English for the low, low price of being called a retard xD

Hit a big milestone for painting today
I just finished up a unit of plastic beakies. Top right are original resin beakies from 2013ish, painted that same year. Been playing them as Sternguard/Seekers ever since. They've popped more Spartans than I can count and have contributed to the death of Perty and Angron(Twice). Middle contemptor is a resin one from the same year.

Originally I had a lot of anvil industries infantry in various states of primer and paint but they did not age well. I've since been cycling them out.

>>95849461
just take the best unit a legion has to offer, add one officer to it and deploy them together

>>95848041
Declining challenges should have no negative impact other than morale if you lose combat. This was terrible in 40k when it was introduced, I hope it’s not like that. The idea that weapons generally can’t be both anti troop and anti character is cool though and I’m excited to see more options, but I worry it will pigeon hole you into always bringing challenge oriented dudes. In which case it will quickly result in one faction clearly having the best ones with no room for recourse or counterplay.

>>95848155
I think they might reconsider the 3-year lifecycle within the next couple years. 40k, AoS, HH, and presumably TOW all abide that rate of turnover now. Not counting boxed games like Kill Team. At some point they're gonna be relaunching two games a year and I think (hope) that even GW will recognize it's gotten a bit silly by then.

When the leaker comes back I want to see the wording on Melta (X)

>>95849490
>TOW abide that rate of turnover now

Mega retard.

>>95849490
If they do, I think they might see sales drop off for heresy on year 3, because why buy shit that will be invalid when you will also need to get new rule books and retool your army in 6 months

>>95849487
>Declining challenges should have no negative impact
Why? Seriously

Bringing an expensive combat character is an inherent risk, its an expensive unit that has a very limited range of effectiveness and is very vulnerable to being caught out or countered, it should be rewarded if/when you make it to combat.

>>95849499
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/ky4t9whx/rules-in-the-age-of-darkness-investigating-the-new-weapon-stats/

>>95849507
That's going to happen anyway, regardless of how long the cycle is. People already do that shit in 40k and AoS.

What kind of glue do I need to fix them? The brother there with no arms had the other one fall off today.

>>95849517
nta but is that Double damage on half range?
Or double damage specifically within 6"?
Or 6 damage within half range?
Or 6 damage always within 6"?
Can't really be sure with these interns

>>95849543
you should be using plastic glue if they are plastic miniatures

>>95849500
Even stuff like Kill Team and Underworlds has that turnover. It's not a question if ToW has that turnover, at best it's a question about how long it is and if GW consider it a big enough game for a summer update slot.

>>95849543
Loctite Super Gel Control. Gorilla is for fixing household items.

>>95849548
Changes damage to the value of (X), This meltagun is damage 3 with melta (6). Half range it goes from damage 3 to 6.

>>95849558
>>95849575
Thanks. I actually got the termies as a Christmas gift for Christmas of 2023.

>>95849512
My personal experience in 6th and 7th Ed 40k led me to hold this opinion. Basically the game turned into min maxing. If you had an army who could not field the very best you might as well not at all. Because your options were either A) die in a challenge, or B) not attack at all. Either way you couldn’t use your hero mini. It felt very shitty to play and was not fun. What if the whole point of my hero unit is to be a squad multiplier and butcher your shitty dudes, then my squad can mog your duelist? If the penalty for declining challenges is too high this just can’t be played.

“Lol no, kill them lads” needs to be a viable strategy to keep intermiediate hero's viable and fun.

Boy howdy, I sure hope Cult Arcana go back to no longer requiring Psychic/willpower Checks, have an addendum where they don't incur Perils, or Thousand Sons get a +3 to Willpower, or else things are going to get way worse (risking losing 6 models in a unit, that is). But surely the development team is aware that Thousand Sons were already one of the most kneecapped Legions in 2.0 and will address that. Surely.

>>95849548
My understanding is "double damage within melta range", so "double damage within 6"
So if it said melta "4" it would be double damage within 4"

>>95849169
> The 40kiddie can't help but reveal itself

>>95849606
Hard agree. This was my experience too. Challenge? Great my sarge is dead before he swings, just not going to upgrade him.

I played Necrons a lot then too. Hearing squeaks of rats shouldn't make a Phaeron stoop so low. Thankfully Obyron cleaned house for me.

I have made around a dozen posts spreading misinformation about 30k just in this thread alone.

>>95849606
Intermediate heroes are inherently viable because they can simply focus on killing normal dudes and not go manfight the 400pts murderlord. Go kill some despoilers then, avoid the praetor with thunder hammer, paragon blade and three flavors of special upgrade.

The whole point and problem is that the more expensive (and therefore riskier) character needs to be made on par with the intermediate characters, because they are lest cost efficient when it comes to killing normal dudes. Challenges do that, they give expensive and impractical duellists the opportunity to bully lesser characters like they should.

The guy twice your cost SHOULD dogwalk you.
Or, if youre that worried about it. Bring a chump with you to challenge block. Throw him under the bus if you cant be bothered with positioning.

>>95849575
>Changes damage to the value of (X), This meltagun is damage 3 with melta (6). Half range it goes from damage 3 to 6.
>>95849618
>My understanding is "double damage within melta range", so "double damage within 6"
>So if it said melta "4" it would be double damage within 4"
So who do I belive?

>The Warlord Detachment is a special addition to your army that you can only use if you bring your Primarch along for a 3,000-point game,
no free spartan and retinue?
seems to contradict some other wording about detachments having no compulsory elements but maybe it's a one-off case
that would be cool were it universal

>>95849428
Yes, yes, very profound, you are a truly erudite and learned soul and surely not just a midwit making base assumptions and parroting concepts introduced to you by more intelligent people. Indeed anon, every single person who disagrees with you is enslaved to brand psychology and incapable of making up their own mind on the basis of game design and it is IMPOSSIBLE anyone could interpret the new system as superior to the old for any reason other than brand loyalty prejudice, or that anything could have actually been improved through iterative design. You are very smart, and should get an "I am very smart" reddit sticker. Maybe you belong there, on reddit, with the other genius level intellects like yourself.

>>95849517
Yeah, I want the wording though. The (6) could refer to damage, range (odd that it's not indicated with an "). It could even refer to something else, like +6 to penetration rolls in half range, as well as double damage and armourbane. (6) is too ambiguous as is.

>>95849641
>So who do I belive?
Neither of us, were both guessing. Just wait until the rule leaks proper, not like youre going to need to use it before then anyways.

>>95849071
Stunty legions

> faggots speculating and misinterpreting clear English
How about leak anon comes back and makes this shit thread worth it

So I guess there is no reason to take Characters if you don't want to spam

>>95849641
I think the second guy is correct, but that's just a guess.

Wait so in the HH every legion gets a pet solar auxilla cohort to do basic intern shit like pick up their coffee, carry their books, and make copies?

Do the ones with traitor legions become cultists later on?

That's

>>95849690
>That's
Anon? ANON?!?

>>95849649
Iterative design would be a cleanup edition, not rewriting everything from the ground up and invalidating all experience with past versions. But nice try at rationalizing, mr "my shitty preference is objective fact"

>>95849419
I haven't regularly played any version of 40k since 4th edition, but I might come back for this if the new Heresy rules are good.

>>95849700
GW has never managed to improve on 4th edition.

>>95849693
Looks like Candlejack got t

Are the Night Lords good, this edition?

>>95848155
>zero thought to any game design at all.
Doesn't look like that to me.

>>95849731
Which this edition?

>>95849699
>rewriting everything from the ground up
It's not that extreme. The reaction system is basically just cleaned up. Statlines are still pretty much the same. Game still goes "hit roll, wound roll, saving throw" and "Movement Phase, Shooting Phase, Assault Phase" etc. Even some of the stuff coming back, like Damage, the advanced Characteristics, Challenges and so forth, are just mechanics from older editions of 40k getting dusted off and refurbished.

A rewrite from the ground up would be a completely different turn structure with an activation system and different resolution systems for attacks and shit like that, like Kill Team did.

I'm gonna be retinue-maxxing bros. Three command squads is some wild shit. They can lead my horde of inductii

>>95847964 (OP)
Seems they fixed the retardation that was having the primarch's transport and retinue count for the 25% limit

>>95848586
You can always just get the basics, we all need basic line units

>>95849641
I'd bet on the first one -- only because melta is "scary at half range" in basically all their other games

>it's still not fucking 4th edition 40k rules but in the 30k setting

GOD DAMN IT GW

>>95849828
Just go play 4th with only the marine codex then you retard, why do you need GW to hold your hand

The tubes on his volkite are meant to give it extra power right?

>>95849741
3rd edition

>>95849633
Necrons and mind shackle scarabs were just awful lol.

>>95849639
>problem is that the more expensive (and therefore riskier) character needs to be made on par with the intermediate characters
I want to point out that this is not and has never in the past been a problem that exists, in fact it is the opposite of the problem that existed. It was inherently not risky to deck a hero to the 9s it was risky to build an intermediate characters who could be invalidated completely by the challenge mechanics. But perhaps the divergence between standard and duelist wargear will make it one? I am excited to see what they make of it, and I hope it’s good.


>Bring a chump with you to challenge block
This literally became the strategy and it was dumb as hell. It was not fun. A guy twice your points should dog walk you if your dumb enough to accept his challenge, instead of working with your squad to kill his ass.

>>95849846
The Ultramarines demand only the finest weaponry for their commanders

>>95849861
>Turd edition

Made another pass at a SOH forgelord

>>95849846
Tbh, anyone who buys these things deserves horrible things be done upon them

>>95849867
>I want to point out that this is not and has never in the past been a problem that exists, in fact it is the opposite of the problem that existed.
Except it was. Kitting out your characters was riskier than leaving them cheap because you dont need much gear to go kill marines and guardians, but you do stand to lose many more points to that lucky blast template.

A cheap, cost effective, combat character is/was enough to bodyslam regular troops without risking invalidation by either the opponent simply not presenting good targets or shooting you. Smashfuck McCostsalot and his deathstar on the other hand?

>A guy twice your points should dog walk you if your dumb enough to accept his challenge
Which you do, or you get slammed with downsides. Challenges are (and should be) there to serve powerful combat characters, not their prey.

>>95849846
Or recharge the gun using the terminator armours power source.

>>95849893
So that explains the old art with terminators having tubes attached to their power weapons and sometimes bolters?

>>95849892
Except Smashfucker and similar Death Stars were literally the meta in 7th? Anon?

>>95849908
The meta in 7th was bullshit formations that gave you free shit

>>95849867
>Necrons and mind shackle scarabs were just awful lol

For you

>>95849908
That's just because invisibility

>>95849903
Sure, and while they're at it hook up sensoria, ammo systems, weapon diagnostics, and whatever else one can pull out of their nose

>>95849942
I guess that makes sense. I can understand power weapons being hooked up to give them extra juice, but the tubes on the bolters never made sense to me because I assumed it was all for extra power.

>>95849756
Redpill me on command squads what's so good about them?

>>95849967
They're the koolest doors around

>>95847964 (OP)
Does anyone have any recommendations for finding power lances for jet bikes?

Golden Keshig seem like such a fucking rip when plastic jet bikes exist and are an arm swap (and maybe a bit of gun converting) away from being nearly identical

>>95849966
Terminators in old editions had Targeters which meant all kinds of cyberpunk smartgun shit that made them hit better, so the tubes could have been that.

>>95849967
theyre tough dudes who carry flags around

>>95849888
why?

>>95849967
Lots of wargear options, artificer armour and WS5

>>95849992
So you want them in melee then?

>>95849979
You're blind if you think golden Keshig are just an arm swap

>>95849982
Consoomer

>>95849908
The meta in 7th was decurions and wraithknights. And S:D flamers that didnt care about your fancy combat lord

>>95849995
Yes

>>95849979
Golden Keshig are mk3 while standard jetbikes are mk4

>>95849997
>>95850023
Why would that affect WYSIWYG proxying at all

>>95849908
Wraithknight spam was meta
Ynnari D-Flamer Spam was meta
Invisible teleporting Centurion Gravguns that shoot through walls was meta
Bringing 3-4k points to a 2k match via free formation upgrades was meta.

Smashfucker was a meme pick, not meta. He was rage inducingly hard to kill, sure, but not a real threat. A single, 250 point melee combat model with a mere 4-5 attacks was not something meta armies were worried about at the time.

>>95849980
I'd believe that. I think the tubes on bolters were a mostly csm thing but I saw a few older loyalist termies having the I think. Thanks.

>>95849472
Good job, Anon!
I painted this guy up for my friend that is as much as I can contribute to RG posting.

>>95849908
Invisibility, Wraithknights(invisible ones at that), Scatter bikes, Wraithguard with str:D guns and str -1D flamers, riptides, skyhammer anihilation with gravs and of course grav centurions. Grav weapons were bullshit.
To be fair smashfucker could be taken out no saves allowed in single turn of eldar 160 points of shooting.

>>95850080
Where's that hammer from? Looks cool.

As always, Macca is right. We need to bomb Warhammer World for 30k to get out of the 3 year edition cycle

So on the bottom of the battlefield roles page, there's a blurb that detachments have their own rules. Today's article stated, "If we hadn’t decided to add Corvus Corax to the list, we would have needed an extra Retinue Slot for the Praetorian Command Squad and an extra Heavy Transport Slot for the Spartan." Which implies that Warlords/primarchs are compulsory for the Warlord apex detachment. So, there has to be more rules for a detachment in the new book that states the Warlord is compulsory.

So, Anonleaker, can you confirm or deny if there are any additional rules for each detachment?

>>95850110
I think that's the hammer from the FW 40k Raven Guard special character. That captain who's friends with Shrike.

>>95849634
spreading misinformation about the heresy is like the spreading of misinformation about covid vaccines, the reality turned out to be far worse than the wildest imagination of boomers.

>>95849892
I guess we just had different experiences. Hero minis hardly ever died before making it into combat. And because of how shortest path works out the one who wants to make the combat happen (the player with the more powerful hero) is more likely to succeed than not.

But more than that, I find email tally disagree with you in the philosophy.
Challenges should exist to serve the glorious noble underdog who is knowingly (probably) about to sacrifice himself in greater combat to stall and preserve the life of his compatriots. They should not favor the stronger character ever. Else you get back to square one.

But, what I am excited for is a divergence in what makes a hero good. In the past “dueling” just wasn’t a thing. The best “duelist” was just the best guy at killing in general. So the creation of a dueling class will make the idea of a challenge much more interesting, as it gives what otherwise (hopefully balanced so) a cheaper hero a power boost vs McCostsalot.

so with the force org basically getting rid of 'elites' and the push to be representative of the forces of the heresy, where does that leave legion specifics like Justaerin etc who only exist in first companies and were kind of fudged into every army as an 'elite' force? I genuinely wonder if they are working towards getting rid of specifics rather than ever needing to convert them to plastics.

>>95847964 (OP)
Still a bit annoyed that bolters are still shite. Chainswords too.
I know some think cunts seem to think that in the lore bolters and chainswords aren't supposed to go through space marine armour...But we know that is complete smoothbrain bullshit, because in the lore the only armour is fucking plot armour.

I would have liked bolters (bolt rule) and chainswords to get breaching (6) So that way a unit of 20 chad despoilers is going to be a nasty threat and 10 lascannon emperor's children pussies won't stand a chance.

>>95850190
We definitely need to wait until the libers come out to see how the old elites are incorporated into FO

>>95850110
It's the hammer from the FW 40k Raven Guard special character. That captain who's friends with Shrike.

>>95850160
>But, what I am excited for is a divergence in what makes a hero good. In the past “dueling” just wasn’t a thing. The best “duelist” was just the best guy at killing in general. So the creation of a dueling class will make the idea of a challenge much more interesting, as it gives what otherwise (hopefully balanced so) a cheaper hero a power boost vs McCostsalot.
It's also interesting because it gives some primarchs a new use, as they seemed to imply Khan would be an excellent duelist where other primarchs could be better at their own niches

I suspect Sigismund will probably be another litmus test for what a "top tier" duelist will look like

>>95850190
It didn't get rid of elites, it just separated power armor guys from terminators/terminator-likes
The elite slot is for vets, rapiers, etc

>>95850190
Or maybe you just need to not spam them you cunts. You still get 3 Elites and 1 wildcard slot off your primary alone

>>95850192
Bolters just got hugely buffed though, they don't need to stand still to get 2 shots at max range and that works with fury of the legion too, so 20 tacticals are blasting out 60 bolter shots for REALLY cheap

That on top of Line (x) looking gamechangingly good, you're likely going to see a lot of tacticals and despoilers

The e-gimps are out in force tonight.

MEGA anon here. Back from work. Sorry I took so long, had to run some errands.

New folder link:
><slash>folder<slash>h6UWVBQT#0HcYrSCiXG-dfmYV5aSplQ
Next OP-maker-anon can subdivide as needed. The HH3 folder *should* have all the leaked images leakeranon has posted so far but feel free to let me know if I've missed any. As always please let me know if there are any issues.

>>95850250
Bless you anon, I'll make the OP template now

Were the rules for independent characters posted? If it works the same it might be funny to make a list that's just one Prime tactical squad with as many centurions and consuls as possible stuffed into it and then like a fellblade or something.

>>95850257
don't forget to include the info that people who tell about Kim's site get visited by the Night Lords

>>95850250
Mucho thanks MEGA anon

>>95849886
The both elbows in kinda looks like he trying to do the titty pop. Try extending the gun arm out fully at eye level, and tilt the head the other way.

>>95850275
*Preysight*

>>95850216
>I suspect Sigismund will probably be another litmus test for what a "top tier" duelist will look like
I doubt it. ID isnt a thing (from what weve seen) and his weapon sucks dick. Unless he has giant stats or some sort of suiper unique special rule, he probably isnt going to be great.

Sevatar might be a monster if he gets access to divination again though.

>>95849419
I can say I like both playing and painting

>>95849861
We don't know, but Fear and Shred look promising.

>>95850250
thank you mega anon, very cool

>>95850305
if we don't die before finishing these tapeworm sentences in the book

>>95850302
Bro is all ready for kill team praetor

Reminder that the combat rules reintroduce part of 3e sweeping advance.

You can "pursue" then move into close combat with another enemy unit immediately.

>>95849731
Theres so many things up in the air so who fucking knows.

Shred is changed in a way which might benefit NL, who have historically been good at wounding anyways and therefore dont care about the reroll as much.
Fear is probably better than ever, since statuses seem very common and powerful.

However we dont know how night fighting/vision works or if terror assault (or similar) still exists as an option.
We dont know how their legion trait works this time round, and the lack of vehicle squadrons means its going to be worse if it remains unchanged.
We dont know what their unique weapons will be like (unusable like in 2.0 or good)
We dont know what their warlords traits are like, what their gambits are, how much their units cost, what force org slots they take or even what stats they will necessarily have.

If the trait remains similar to what it is now (so "+1 to wound against units you outnumber or which are suffering from a status effect, +1 to pen vehicles you outnumber or which suffer from a status effect") this could be really good. If it becomes melee only again then it will probably be a lot worse and depend heavily on weapon rules. If its something else entirely? Who knows.

Night raptors not being able to charge after DS is a blow though.

>>95850290
the Black Sword is +1I, +2S AP2 D1 with Crit6+ and Duellist's Edge (2) (in addition to +1I just for using the thing); depending on his available Gambits (and the fact that as far as anybody knows, it's not a Power or Charnabal or anything else weapon - so not affected by debuffs to those types, if they exist) he could be hitting at S7, or making 10 attacks or whatever

I wouldn't want to throw sergeants at him, probably not even another Praetor; and I'm assuming - I think we're all assuming - that the new FOC profile bonuses don't apply to Unique characters like Siggy, but I mean... potentially he could be WS8 or whatever with one of those

>>95850216
Yes agreed. I dunno about others but it’s always a feels bad moment for me when my cool hero dude will always lose the mathhammer game just cause he is priced less. I’m excited to see more things that make heroes “good”

>>95850333
That's not even everything I have, i just really enjoy both putting together characters but also painting them.
Which reminds me I need to kitbash a praetor for Death Guard so I have a generic one

>>95850340
that's just 2E melee without the highest score bullshit

>>95850350
There's bo way piggy isn't high command, in which case the only way to get him into a prime slot burns that prime benefit anyway

>>95849159
Not a Breacher squad's Land Raider, that's for sure. They're a Heavy Transport now. So that means taking a whole-ass Detachment if I want to not have them walk. Where they'll also be competing with slots for Terminator transports.

>>95850204
the libers will make or break the edition I think, its hard to see how much work they put into balancing and fun mechanics without them. They'll have to be spectacular to make the effort of learning the game worth it though.

>>95850350
>and I'm assuming - I think we're all assuming - that the new FOC profile bonuses don't apply to Unique characters like Siggy, but I mean... potentially he could be WS8 or whatever with one of those

There is no need to assume. See >>95849225
Unique units can only take Logistical Benefit.

>>95850350
Sergeants can't even participate in challenges anymore anon. The only opponents Sisimund will run into is other champions and commanders.

i dont understand why gw made such a huge change for charging
marines only having a max charge range of 6" after a set up move of 3" sounds insanely punishing for melee armies

>>95850344
>Night raptors not being able to charge after DS is a blow though.
reminds me of something

>>95850379
You haven't played during 4th edition I see. We didn't even get the 3" set up move back then.

>>95850350
None of the prime slots allow for praetor tier characters iirc (or rather, it costs a prime benefit to let a character of that tier fit the slot), so it doesent matter whether unique characters can benefit. You cant make your praetor, kharn or sigismund a paragon of battle from what I can tell. Only centurions (or maybe centurion level unique characters)

And sure, maybe he has S7, but its not like that actually "does" very much. He has what, 4/5 attacks? So say 6 for charging, 7 for going first (which he probably will, he gets like +3 to it).

Hitting on 3s wounding on 2s into a 4+ invuln (god forbid any sort of damage mitigation) and hes still not doing a whole lot of damage, not likely to kill in one round imo. (basic centurions have 3w now, so terminator praetors will have like 5). Meanwhile someone with a thunder hammer might just flatten him with damage 4 on the backswing. I suspect that a saturnine praetor will mulch him (unless like you said he has 10 attacks, or some special rules we dont know about "in a challenge the black sword does +3 damage" or whatever)

>>95850376
>Sergeants can't even participate in challenges anymore
I wouldn't even want them to because it is 4 pages of stuff for some random sarge fight

>>95850365
>So that means taking a whole-ass Detachment if I want to not have them walk. Where they'll also be competing with slots for Terminator transports.

How many Land Raiders are you even taking? Armoured Fist is 4 Land Raiders and you can take 2 of them as a logistical benefit in the Crusade Detachment

>>95850379
>why gw made such a huge change for charging
The answer is pretty simple—money. They want you to buy transports, disembark, and charge. Or buy even more expensive assault transport, disembark, set-up move, and charge.

>>95850222
rapiers are probably in support. Having them in Elites was stupid to begin with

>>95850386
And how long ago was 4th, dickhead? How much else has changed that one middling little rule that was part of the game a decade ago isn't relevant anymore?

>>95850429
Transports, that thing marine players are famously short on. Not like every player doesent already have seven rhinos and four land raiders.

>>95850386
you could assault out of vehicles thogh

>>95850302
>This is a legal army in 3.0
That's fucking hilarious

>>95850444
You can now, it'll just be disordered

>>95850365
The only confirmed heavy transport we've seen is the Spartan. I think it's possible that proteus land raiders could be normal transports

>>95850445
Just like in the books!

>>95850444
Not Rhinos, that was during 3rd edition: Rhino Rush Hour.

>>95848819

God they'd better fucking make it into the next set of PDF's. I literally bought one of the last 40k Ironclad Dreadnaughts to convert into my Casta-Ferrum.

>>95850441
Sure, but it doesn't really matter how many transports veteran players already have. The goal is to sell new ones to new players now.

>>95850379
Anon the avarage roll of a d6 is 3.5.
Getting a 3 always is slightly worse but barely.
And you can now charge out of rhinos
Doesn't seem like that big of a nerf

>>95850452
>Armoured Fist: Heavy transports like the Land Raider, plus additional light transports

>>95850465
New players also have transports. The starter box came with a spartan.

>>95850463
If fucking "who cares" legacy units like tarantula sentry guns and the basic bitch whirlwind come back and get plastic models, it would be crazy for the BASED castaferrum dreadnought to get squatted.

>>95850386
Fuck off dude. In 4th ed, shooting units couldn't move at full speed away from you while firing lascannons, while overwatching at full bs if you do actually get in charge range.

And 4e charge range was just a fixed 6 inches (or 12 for some stuff) instead of random 3-8 inches of rng.

I don't know why they've made a shooting dominated game somehow even more shooting dominated.

>>95850466
>>95850379
Scratch that. The average roll of 2d6 pick highest is 4.5.
Meaning a basic marine is going to have an average charge of 7.5, which is .5 higher than before

>>95850429
12" long bomb charges were stupid and I'm glad they're gone. 3" + D6" is cool and encourages smart positioning, and risking getting Stunned for failing a charge as a downside is great.

>>95850460
it's honestly depressing that over 20 years later GW still can't manage to balance marines in their game.

>>95850444
guess what

>>95850481

My brother in christ, reread my post. They've ALREADY squatted that model from 40k.

>>95850468
Okay, thank you.

>>95850434
4th is the best edition ever and I want it to stick its dick in me. Nothing will ever beat needing to ride around in paper thin transports and double Monolith Necron mirror matchups at every event.

>>95850463
If they don't just run it as a contemptor
No one is going to arrest you

>>95850486
Not saying it's bad, anon. I, for one, enjoy mechanized armies very much.

>>95850409
>logistical benefit
Wasn't that restricted to once per Crusade Detachment or something?

>>95850509

Do Contemptors get missile pod and chainfist options?

>>95850489
Who gives a fuck about 40k, the units will have rules in HH and get models and that's all that matters.

>>95850401
>You cant make your praetor, kharn or sigismund a paragon of battle from what I can tell. Only centurions (or maybe centurion level unique characters)
You know what, I think it's really fucking cool that they're emphasizing making a few important sergeants/champions really big deals, it really lets you give a unit champ a bunch of character and uniqueness.

>>95850500
Its funny when people mix up 3e and 4e vehicle rules.

3e being rhino rush meta of invincible metal boxes of assaulting doom.
4e transports being fuel soaked cardboard boxes that were more likely to get your own dudes fucking wrecked then actually be helpful, due to the insane passanger rules and no assaulting.

>>95850484
The new system has more consistent charge ranges, but high roll potential.

>>95850527
Yea I actually really like the system. Having non-consul centurions be important is also nice. Im sure the force org is going to be broken in some way, but on paper its a really fun and soulful concept with a lot of narrative potential.

>>95850541
>but high roll potential.
but without*

>>95850514
>>95850409
correct
one logistical benefit per detachment

>>95850516
Not missiles

>>95850541
I like being ABLE to field lots of hq if I want, but I hate HAVING to do so, if I want a diverse spread of units. A centurion is in charge of... a 100 dudes, why do I have to have 4 of the fuckers to have a bunch of different units, but the waac army spamming just some overpowered unit will have far less tax?

>>95850534
I don't know 3e vehicle rules but I remember every first glancing roll in 4th being a 6 (wrecked) or a 5 (immobilized, have fun walking without advance rule). Don't know what the 4th ed zealot who stalks every Warhammer game thread liked about the edition, maybe he was a Tau player?

>>95850250
Who keeps reporting this shit anyway? Does GW actually lurk these threads?

>>95850569
>maybe he was a Tau player?
Nids seem more likely

>>95850514
>>95850553
where does it say that

>>95850584
Whoever they are I sure hope they're well-compensated for their work

>>95850569
From memory, 3e and 4e damage table was the same/almost the same, but in 4e, every time the vehicle took damage, your unit inside had to roll a test to see if they just panic the fuck out and exit the tank in no mans land, possibly pinned, to get shot to death.

>>95850597
whoever they are, I sure hope they get cancer for their work

>>95850569
it was the best edition hands down with 3rd ed codices, arguably 5th ed fixed many of the problems but the codices fucked it again. On the whole though it was built for compact narrative games with action straight off the bat, certainly not the parking lot deathstar slogging fests of later editions.

>>95850607
I agree, with the exception of >>95850605
being the hilarious overnerf of transports, in compensation of 3e being super transport focused.

What does everyone predict for weapon rules this edition? Any guesses?

>>95850589
in the text of Logistical Benefit, last sentence >>95849225

'This Advantage may only be selected once per Detachment'

>>95850622
ah thank you

>>95850622

Jesus. Tacticals really don't have any reason to exist then. You can't even take one and then double Logistics a Spartan and some Cataphracts into your primary det then by taking Logistics on your Command Choice as well.

>>95850553
>>95850514
My bad. Still, he can still take a Land Raider in his Crusade Detachment and other four if he takes an auxiliary detachment. Does he really need more than 5 Land Raider Slots?

>>95850654
>Tacticals really don't have any reason to exist then
3 shots at 24" for very cheap and Line is busted as hell.

>>95850654
>Tacticals really don't have any reason to exist then
Yea, right?
Who would want 4 fucking victory points instead of 1 per objective controlled?
Or initiative benefits on challenges from outnumbering the enemy with cheaper models?
Or bolter spam that can easily kill HSS across the board while costing less than they do?
That's just useless

>>95850621
the more rules we see the more I'm convinced that GW don't consider the changes 'sweeping' because the profiles are largely the same so the balance will stay the same and they've just decided to describe the same steps in autistic detail (truly the IW edition). I predict basically no changes other than weapons rules having the new effects i.e. plasma is strength 8 AP4 breaching 5+, autocannon is strength 7 AP4 3 shots heavy (AM) or 4 shots if stationary.

>>95850654
why?
You need at least one troop slot to get the Logistical Benefit, they have improved Fury rules, they sure as hell get Line, some legions will surely be great with boltguns again and they are cheap, not bulky for transports, they can be upgraded to Vets and maybe they don't seem as important as the Distraction Carnifex rolling in the Spartan. So why not take them?

>>95850654
Yeah, ha ha, no reason to take tacticals at all, ha ha... >>95848333

>>95850654
Tacticals with line score like 4vp when they cap an objective vs 1vp for nonline

>>95850683
Some weapons will HAVE to change mind you. Take terranic greatswords, instant death isnt a thing, neither is murderous strike. So what is it? Critical strike? Whats their base damage? 2? 1? I think that makes quite a bit of a difference, whether theyre

S+2, Critical strike (6+(5+?)), Breaching 5(+), Damage 1 is for example quite a different beast to what they were before no?

What about ravens talons? Rending + Shred is a nasty combo now, but are they just outright incapable of going through 2+ armor now? Whats the base damage on great frost weapons and headsmans axes? Are solarite gauntlets D2 or D3 (or even D4)/

>Telekinesis now confers Shrouded rather than an invulnerable save.
Extremely weird choice. I guess it may be due to how invulnerable saves interact with damage being too strong or something, but the idea that a mortar shell or Helical Targeting Array being able to bypass a magic force field altogether and not regular, technology-powered force fields seems very wrong.

>>95850379
AI generated rules for sure

I've traveled from the future to deliver to /hhg/ a brief glimpse of what is to come: nu-cataphractii will be a box of 5, screenshot this post.

>>95850683
Whether you like or dislike the new rules, there is honestly no way to say these aren't sweeping changes.

>>95850694
I do look forward to one squad of tactical marines hiding behind a rock to outscore my opponent's 3 lascannon squads on their three objectives.

>>95850722
braindead "AI spotters" are almost as annoying as AI slop spammers

>>95850725
no shit sherlock

>>95850730
I think anon has a point in the sense that "dynamics havent changed", reactions are still largely the same, weapons work largely the same way and so on. The game has not changed in terms of "this is how it works" too much.

But the specifics obviously have changed, a lot. And those specifics are what I was asking about. I want to know what people predict/hope for in regard to the unique legion weapons.

>>95850725
GW: "Give them the plague Marine treatment"

>>95850711
>the idea that a mortar shell or Helical Targeting Array being able to bypass a magic force field altogether and not regular, technology-powered force fields seems very wrong.
All the rules we've seen have changed.
What makes you think those things are going to work the same?

>>95850710
absolutely, but does it result in different outcomes in terms of probability? It feels like a sidestep with a change in terminology and modification over rerolls etc but not necessarily a rebalancing attempt or a reshuffling of what weapons are meant to do.

>>95850730
oh I'd agree it was anything from misleading to an outright lie, though it would be an odd thing to lie about since they require buying new books anyway and presumably they are confident in the new rules or they wouldn't have invested such effort into it, so what would be the point of the lie?

>>95850672
>3 shots at 24"
>>95850680
>Or bolter spam that can easily kill HSS across the board while costing less than they do
Nani?

>>95850750
Even just heavy weapons being able to move and fire is a pretty huge change. The dynamic of 'melee dudes on foot are trying to stab the heavy weapon squad' is completely different when that squad can now backpedal and fire at effectively full power.

I get what anon is saying, but GW is only saying it to try pre-empt nerd rage to what are very large changes to basically every aspect of the game. Either that or just their way of saying 'we haven't done an 8th ed guys' without directly saying that.

>>95850751
You fool, now that you've spoken it, it shall be.

>>95850774
Bolter is 2 shots at 24” plus fury

>>95850500
Lol we must not have been playing the same game cause monoliths were terrible, I remember my necron friends complaining that if you dumped that many points into non necron units your army would phase out on like turn 2.

>>95850735
"The value on the dice you roll after you rolled it is the result of your roll" is RoboRosewater level garbage.

>>95850773
>but does it result in different outcomes in terms of probability?
I mean, yes? I think theres a very big difference between a weapon which might kill a terminator in one hit if you spike it and one that takes your praetors head off in one hit

Likewise with ravens talons having zero(0) Ap2, thats a giant change to how the weapon works. Downright backbreaking potentially.

>>95850796
Its kinda pointless to speculate since we have zero indication on how these weapons will change, but change is all but certain.

Interestingly though, the new rending wording specifically procs 'on wound roll of x' effects, so it seems extremely likely that there will be weapons with rending AND breaching, or other rules combos.

>>95850654
Tacticals are going to be super busted; they are extra wounds for all those characters that you now have to take, AND they give you bonuses on all the challenges that you need to fight, AND the give you points to WIN THE GAME.

One of the best packages to take in the coming edition will be 10 tacs with a cheap power sword cent in a land raider. This threatens all the squishy ranged units like meltas, lascannons, and snipers. The centurion alone could kill off those squads.

This is going to force the opponent to run cheap squads with THEIR OWN cheap centurions to fight off these opportunity seekers. These squads will be the foundation of mid range combat in this edition, narratively speaking they are all those literalwho characters that die in droves in the hh novels. Replace tacs with despoilers they are functionally identical, ie wound tokens.

>>95849071
Magic phase from ToW. Can’t wait to spam Column of Crystal against dreadnaught WAACfags

>>95850795
it's overly wordy, but the language is way more clinical than AI bloat usually is. this just reads like a rules autist who can't bear to leave an edge case.

>>95849979
Grey Knight halbreds

>>95850817
Bruh, never in the history of the game has a squad of tacticals in a landraider ever been a strong choice, and it never will. Tripling the points cost of the unit to give it a big metal box is fun and cool, but 'threatening' ranged units with it is a bit of a joke with how many points you've invested into... a basic tac/despoiler squad.

>>95850817
Land raiders might have sudden existence failure depending on if the big melta weapons are as scaled up as the small ones.

>>95850817
>One of the best packages to take in the coming edition will be 10 tacs with a cheap power sword cent in a land raider. This threatens all the squishy ranged units like meltas, lascannons, and snipers. The centurion alone could kill off those squads.
Anon I love this plan I just want to suggest the slight tweak of replacing those tacs with literally anything else

>>95850817
>>95850845
I dont agree with the land raider, thats probably going to be too much and be counterproductive. But cheap centurions in squads of marines might be very good. If heart of the legion remains then its decently durable (well, for the cost) and has some nice punch now. Run a bunch of those, walk them up the board, spend your remaining points on lots of fancy force org slot stuff to mess with your opponent, win on points.

Prime slots might also let centurions punch above their weight. Ws7 champions for example.

>>95850848
eh, no more 2d6 armour pen for armour-bane.
so if they stay at S8, its a 6 to glance, with armour-bane counting glances as pens.

>>95850863
I'm expecting multi meltas to go to S9 with either heavy FP or heavy (S)

>>95850796
until we see what can I say, but from the weapons we have seen it seems like the goal has been to more or less keep them in line with previous iterations albeit using modifiers instead.

>>95850863
Sure, but when all you need is a 6 or two to kill a tank, thats still potentially very nasty imo, and land raiders arent exactly super cheap either.

>>95850869
Also this, what happens if the big meltas have a better statline than the small ones? Beyond just a longer melta range that is.

>>95850817
> HH is going to become waves of tacticals and despoilers bashing into each other while characters duke it out around the rolling melee combat
Ummm based???
ESPECIALLY if it drives the cost up to keep out the poors and hobbylets.

>>95850777
>when that squad can now backpedal and fire at effectively full power.
Wouldnt they fire snapshots if they retreat? And no it wouldnt be full power since they wouldnt be getting the heavy bonus.

>>95850886
>HH is going to become waves of tacticals and despoilers bashing into each other while characters duke it out around the rolling melee combat
Yea that actually does sound really nice. Lots of power weapon centurions engaging in multiple round challenges while surrounded by despoilers bashing each other with Ap- weapons.

Sounds sick. Wont be the case. Would be cool if it was.

how are weapons like lascannons gonna work on vehicles?

will vehicles always get the +1 damage bonus?

>>95850882
>Beyond just a longer melta range that is.
We don't even know if melta depends on range. It could be within 6" always

>>95850493
30k is getting the current drop pod kit while 40k is getting the monopose one. They can just start selling the old boxnaught kit for 30k.

>>95850906
I doubt a cyclonic melta lance, inferno pistol, and melta blast cannon have the same melta range. If melta was a fixed range it wouldnt need to have a variable rule would it?

>>95850913
Nta but the variable also suggests it won't be half.

>predator melta may keep the 18" melta range and it'll just delete everything

I can only hope it goes back to a large blast, but i'll accept if its still 3 shots twin linked

>>95850922
Sure, we dont know what it will be. Maybe the melta blast cannon has a 30" melta range. Who knows. Its probably longer than 6" though.

>>95850926
>36" s8 d3 Ap1 blast
Who wanted terminators anyways

>>95850365
do we know Breachers are still Primary and not Tactical Support

>>95850943
No, we dont.

>>95850896
would mean there's an obvious advantage to LR and laspreds over a lasHSS for around the same points

>>95850913
Cuz we don't know what the 6 in Melta(6) of the example means
It could mean it goes of within 6"
Or that it does 6D when it goes off, which happens at half range
Those fucks could have chosen literally any other melta weapon to show but they chose the one with 3 as the base damage and 12 as the rage

>>95850845
>>95850848
>>95850854
>>95850856

What makes it good is Asset Diversity, Land raiders need a fair bit of firepower to take down and the unit within is kinda garbage, however, you have to waste quality shots on them.

You guys have no idea how many HSS I've rendered useless with 10 bolter recon marines with 5 chain bayonets and a vexilia. The point is just to be in front of them and threaten the charge. This is especially true in 4 turn missions where action economy is so tight. In 2.0 10 tactical bolter pigs can effectively neutralize a contemptor for half the game just by dying slowly.

The shift that cent spam is going to bring is that now the attacks that used to be on the sergeant go to the cent, and become high quality attacks that can remove models and affect ld checks. This is why the fall back rule exists the way it does in 3.0; you run and risk getting charged AGAIN, OR you keep running an extra turn, away from an objective or a firing position like your melta range. Sure you can fry tacticals, but who cares. Now you have a squad that is brooming you away from the game into irrelevance. This is essentially how chaos marines played in 3.5 edition.

Rhinos, Land Raiders and Spartans filled with tacticals win me tons of games now. In 3.0 they are just getting better.

>>95850856
alright Calloson calm down

>>95849071

Tacticals now get Swarming, but this will be nerfed and then removed over a two year period.

Where is the leaker? Fuck the rest of us we don't matter show us more stuff

>>95850953
>Melta (6) grants Armourbane within 6” and doubles damage to a mighty six

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/ky4t9whx/rules-in-the-age-of-darkness-investigating-the-new-weapon-stats/

the example weapon is a meltagun with a 12" range, so it's a fair shot that it applies to half range just like now

it sounds like Armourbane doubles Damage (haven't kept up but presumably D is added to AP rolls per the old RT/2E version of AP, so bigger melta weapons with presumably terrifying Damage stats are probably worth steering the fuck clear of, particularly if they're on a Kratos)

>>95851006
Armourbane confirmed counts Glancing as Penetrating

>>95850991
GW's elite legal team assassins got him, leaker anon is no longer with us.

I find it hilarious that most of the people bitching in my FLGS discord is because they keep trying to fit 3 Dreadnought Detachments in and need to take 2 extra HQs to do so

>>95850954
cont.

You are going to NEED centurions to challenge other centurions. Otherwise the would run away with the game gumming up all your good damaging units, or scaring them off from contesting the objectives with firepower to win the game.

This edition is clearly herohammer, but you need delivery systems for that herohammer. Tacticals are so good now that people don't understand why they lose so many games to me, they just see that they lose. Tacticals are more points efficient that dreads, which is saying a lot. It seems like 3.0 is a more convoluted but DEADLIER edition. Any game which has a higher kill ratio will favor trash that does not care if it dies. The key to winning in HH is to make the opponent think the juice isn't worth the squeeze, and then FORCING him into committing anyways.

>>95851029
gonna start referring to consuls purchased to bring dreadnoughts as tard wranglers

>>95851029
That sounds funny as fuck.

>>95851006
i imagine the melta rules states that within half range, the weapon gains armourbane and the value in brackets is the damage.

>>95851029
We don't even know the full rules, why waste time bitching about it?
A mortificator or master of the Forge could easily give you more access to dreads than the basic detachments
Fury of the Ancients is probably still a thing that gives you access to more dreads

>>95850943
Assault squad are still troops, so probably

>>95851029
Maybe these dreadnought spamming faggots should play Orks in 40k so they can have a dreadmob then.

>>95851062
Nah, its gonna be if the target is within a number of inches of the value in brackets then double the damage.

>>95850887
No, heavy doesn't snap fire on move anymore. Shit is broken as fuck.

>>95851414
Falling Back makes you snap shot though

>>95850750
>weapons work largely the same
Not even slightly. Lascannons now can be shot while sprinting backwards. Meltas now are entirely unreliable to penetrate tanks (the entire point of meltas) and are instead dreadnought-clearers. Disintegrators are anti-light-troops instead of anti-terminator guns. The most common gun in the game, the bolter, has zero resemblance to the old bolter as Rapid Fire was deleted from the game so it doesn't determine shots from 12" distance, tactical marines get 3 shots at 24". Most special rules rewritten entirely like Rending, breaching, shred, armourbane.

There's no indication game-play has any much resemblance to the old edition. Every single part of the game is changed, every heavy weapon is changed by being run-and-gun, rhino-rush is back as every vehicle ever allows assaulting, deepstrike entirely rewritten, troops entirely changed, line/objectives entirely changed, dreadnoughts made of glass, tanks either gonna be stunned 24/7 or near-invulnerable depending on the points cost of the lascannons/missile spam, every unit Must now either be 100% disposable in melee or have a strong herohammer in it because the second you decline a challenge your squad is initiative 1 and helpless to the enemy.

3E vs 2E is as big a change as 40k8E vs 9E vs 10E. It's an entirely new game that just happens to be in the same genre of a tabletop wargame, but that is all.

And since GW has just shown they put the dumb-down-everything team on HH and have made the lifespan 3 years, it's pretty much guaranteed everything you enjoy about the game will be gone 3 years or 6 years from now. It's the same employees that "simplified but not simple" 40k that are shittifying 30k now. They aren't even doing a good job hiding it, having 20 page rules for challenge and army building doesn't hide that they've dumbed down everything else in the game.

>>95849641
>>95849654
>>95849678
Its the same thing. The example is Melta (6). There is a 6 in between those brackets. The meltagun is Damage 3 Melta (6). Theres no two ways about it. It maybe that (X) always happens to be double the damage of the base gun.

Another way to phrase it, the meltagun is NOT Damage 3 Melta(X). If it were flat double damage it owudl read "Melta (X)" in picrel.

>>95850379
2d6" charge has an average distance of 7" with an extremely statistically unlikely maximum of 12".

2d6 take the highest and add 3" is average 7.47" with a very statistically strong probability of the full 9".

Learn math before you doompost.

>>95851467
>Meltas now are entirely unreliable to penetrate tanks (the entire point of meltas) and are instead dreadnought-clearers.
Without a damage table, vehicles just straight up take the entire damage value as hull points
Most tanks are going to eat shit if a melta at half range gets any successful armor roll at all

It's more all or nothing than it was before, but a melta squad shooting at an armored vehicle at half range will usually kill it one way or another

>>95851482
>read "Melta (X)" in picrel.
Technically it would just read "Melta" without "(X)" if it were just doubling damage. The value in brackets is the damage at half range.

'bashed two centurions/AA sgts together

>>95851488
nta but outside of the set-up move, the charge is d6 now. You are rolling 2 dice and picking the better one.

>>95851431
Why would they be falling back?
You just shoot the melee squad repeatedly with assault lascannons, moving backwards, reacting backwards and overwtching until they die.

>>95851577
Units can only do 1 reaction per turn.

>>95851577
This would make any sense at all if 20 tacticals didn't remove 6.67 lascannon HSS from 24" while costing less than the 6 guys they actually killed

>>95851577
a Unit in 3.0 can only react once per turn,
units that are: Stunned, Routed, Locked in combat, Has already made a reaction, or the player has no more reaction points, cannot make a reaction.
Per player turn, the reactive player gets one reaction point, and gets a bonus if playing a 1501-3500 pt game.

in your standard 3000 point game, you get, base, 2 reactions a turn, and cannot select the same unit twice to react with per turn.

>>95851618
DESU good, reactions were not a good addition to the game.

>>95851650
counterpoint, I think reactions are a great mechanic, but they were overtuned in 2.0. the nerf to intercept is much needed.

>>95851612
>>95851618
Yeah I know, that doesn't change anything.
You can retreat react if they're out of charge range (which is now much lower, if somewhat more consistent), then save overwatch for when they are in charge range. It ain't rocket science.

>>95851650
Reactions are great, but there was a lot of broken synergies with reactions in 2.0. The new reaction rules, along with having to take an intelligence test with Aug scanners, is much needed balances.

>>95851697
>>95851665
>They are great! But...
They are shit, and in typical gw fashion they just either refuse to let them go, or swing to far in the other direction.

>>95851614
That would make sense if the lascannon team can't just run backwards at the same speed as tacticals. So they can never get in 24 inch range unless the HSS runs out of board space, or if they have some form of transportation/mobility.

I'm not implying 5000 lascannons are gonna doom all tacticals, I am just pointing out that heavy weapons firing on the move is HIGHLY problematic.

Like 2.0 was already strongly leaning towards shooting, but the 3.0 changes make it even more shooting centric, even with a couple of shooting reaction nerfs.

>>95851618
I'd be annoyed if 10 man las squads are still a thing (at their power level similar to 2.0) seeing as return fire is pretty much identical to before

>>95851719
this guy likes being completely passive during his opponent's turn. does having to think about reactions cut into your subway surfers time?

>>95851730
No its just needless bullshit added into the game.
All the problems that people say reactiosn solve is fixed by not playing on a shit table, or running your dudes out into the open.

Overwatch and go to ground was all you needed.

Wait, is it true that in 3.0 custodes can identify as females?

>>95851553
Dumbass re-read what I wrote.

>>95851746
Yes but you have to paint a pink stripe on them

>>95851723
>So they can never get in 24 inch range unless the HSS runs out of board space
This is a level of armchair theorycrafting that reveals the "no-games" nature of some posters, ones who don't even have the reference of an actual tabletop and what a 10-12" deployment zone looks like to realize why this is such a catastrophically stupid opinion to have

Is shooting going to be strong? Probably

Are mongolian horse archer HSSs going to take over the meta by running around like doom guy shooting behind them as they can't ever be caught in range of anyone elses guns because uhhhh...they can move and shoot

Like if any of this was true, then lascannon VEHICLES (or dreads) would have been spammed endlessly since they can ALREADY do that, but way faster and way more tough

>>95851754
Its not the moving thats the big issue.
For some reason people now have forgotten that drills and pods exist, warmongers will still exist.
You can drop them in, and they fire at full BS.
Warmonger + HSS Melta is gonna be fucking cancer, "Oh let me just fucking delete a titan"

>>95851746
Yes but on a 2d6 roll of 6 or less they self-delete.

>>95851482
That 6 can be the range at which the rule goes off, which doubles the base damage
There is no way to tell

>>95851744
>>95851719
>>95851650
Retarded takes from this faggot.

>>95851691
Ok, but the moment you retreat react, everything else is free to gun you down. If you save the reaction for melee, you get gunned down. If you return fire, you get charged.

>>95851754
Vehicles WOULD be spammed for this very reason right now, except for a: lascannons fucking rape vehicles in 2.0, and b: they don't have reactions with their lascannons.

This isn't some armchair bullshit, yes obviously hss's aren't going to be completely immune and blah blah blah, but the changes DO make what is already one of the strongest units in the game even strong for no good reason.

Why do you think heavy weapons firing on the move is an improvement?

>>95851751
>argues with a person that's concerned about new short charges: "No, look, it's 2d6 charges in 2.0. Stop doomposting."
>reminded that 3.0 has shorter charges
>"REREAD, DUMASS."

Wednesday night and time again for an OC heresy art dump to mark another week of classes on the books
>Part 49: Pewter or Plastic Edition

>>95851796
Holy fuck you are legitimately retarded aren't you.

>>95851800

>>95851801
no u

>>95851811
Like nigger, are you trolling? Reread my post word for word. Slow down and use your brain and parse each word. Fucking dumb fuck.

>>95851805

>>95851801
>>95851796
Its shorter max range charge, longer average.

>>95851817
Last pic

>>95851818
Yeah, but you were almost never getting that max range charge anyways.

Are the build instruction for the Saturnine praetor and terminators posted anywhere yet?

>>95851816
I reread it. It doesn't make it any less retarded. Why are you so upset, Anon? Someone on the internet called you an idiot?

>>95851829
Oh okay you're trolling, my bad for even responding. Go back to /40kg/

>>95851827
You could make a valid argument that its actually also shorter average as well if they removed bonuses to charge based upon your base movement speed as well. But i dont think anyone is making that argument. But there is a case for it

So, anyone got any more of them leaks?

>>95851832
>Go back to /40kg/
thats all you got tranny?

>>95851838
>attention whoring retarded fag
The tranny behavior is coming from you, anon

>>95851800
>>95851805
>>95851817
>>95851822
Kino anon, thanks for sharing OC

>>95851841
No, your retarded take on charges revealed you as a tranny. There is no going back from that, anon.

>>95851855
Math isn't a "take" dipshit.

>>95851817
I like this marine, he looks very cheeky, like he's planning to do something devious when you aren't looking

>>95851836
>>95851827
depends on the unit
distance of set up move is based on Initiative + movement
if jump packs still give you a base move of 12", then your set up move becomes 5", giving you an 11 inch threat range.

>>95851858
Your mental illness is showing; go make your math again. New charges are worse than old charges, especially taking into account that a lot of them will be disordered anyway (i.e w.o any set-up move).
>dipshit
easy with your tranny language

>>95851879
>New charges are worse than old charges
Nigger can't do simple math

>>95851891
>Nigger can't do simple math
It's sad that you calls you mom that way, but my point still stands.

>>95851905
You never had a point you illiterate retard, you can't even read

>>95851910
It seems that you are the one that can't read. Not only that, you keep proving yourself to be retarded.

>>95851929
>>95851929
>>95851929

>>95847964 (OP)
A lot more characters, less unit variety and less likely to run allies. I'll probably need 3-4 characters for the primary detachment now and allies would probably be another 2-3. And if I wanted like a cheap recon / fast attack squad to shore up some weakness, it will be more questionable if I have to also buy a character to do so.

>>95850837
Or a jeet AI trained on 40years of GW rules.

>>95850379
>>95851488
Either is fucking stupid, it should be 6" + D3 so it's predictable enough to actually plan around. If a player has managed to successfully maneuver their guys such that they're practically right up in the enemy's fucking grill they should not have to wish upon a star, sacrifice a goat, and pray to fucking Ranald that they actually get the reward for that effort.

>>95850250
No please the subdivide text is god awfull. Why people can't just click on the root then choose ? Its literally faster than removing the <slash>

>>95851500
a 5 man melta squad basically has a 50/50 to kill a predator, they won't stand a chance against a landraider if armour values are the same

>>95847964 (OP)
>TQ
Dunno. Talons aren't getting their book for anywhere up to a year from now so I'm just going to shelve them until then.
I've got my 40k Sisters to focus on in the meantime.