Thread 95857866

Centurion Tax Edition

Previous Heresy: >>95851929

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>Thread Question
Post your Centurions

ugliest mouthful of all generals.
Just link the root.

>>95857866 (OP)
No centurions here. Only consuls.

>>95857890
also literally faster and much easier to click in the clear as day folders

>>95857866 (OP)
>TQ
They're still under construction, since some of the ideas I have aren't easy to make the way I want them.

>>95857890
You are right, I'll shorten it up next time

>>95857880
>>Duel phase is literally always gonna boil down to going first
>>there's a gambit right there that cuts off your opponent's access to focus
You can never use Riposte to deny Seize, because Riposte can only ever be used when you're choosing the gambit first (Active in 1st round, Advantage in 2nd+).
And if you are going first, you are choosing Seize.

>wah wah all duels are just gonna boil down to going first
>there is a gambit to prevent your opponent from focussing right there
Come on man you gotta play the mind games

What good is it to gain the advantage in the Glory step if that means the duel is already ended, and will not be getting another round?

>my army is a praetor + 5 centurions
>my buddy brings an army that's a praetor + 5 centurions
Finally, Kill Team for 30k

With flyers actually becoming useful I think we will see a prevalence of Deredeos being used in that single dread slot. If you can assault from a dropping unit (I’ve only seen can disembark as normal mentioned), you might be able to pull off a T1 charge

>>95857958
Sorry anon, I already Seized the initiative as you can see here >>95857937. Maybe next time, eh?

>>95857962
>6 v 6
Anon be like

>>95857966
Even if you can't do a T1 charge from drop off, the other combat missions are useful enough that I think we need to be investing in at least one anti-air platform.

>>95857966
NICE. One can do disordered charges from transports. Can one do disordered charges from a deepstrike? I'm looking for the deepstrike pic in the imgur

Wait a minute - so if Talons are gone, I'll have to take one Centurion just to take one Boxnought? Like every Dreadnought has to have a caretaker?

>>95857980
Yes I would like a 6 v 6 animal battling wargame please.

>>95857969
How embarassing

>>95857984
Yeah unless missiles stay one use (even if they do it’s not a deal breaker) then popping out and doing strafing runs is really good. Storm eagles seem great for the t1 fly on and drop an assault unit. Lightnings are probably back on the menu as well. Xiphons will be versatile for CAP and strafing.

>>95857987
Not sure what the wording will be yet. Storm eagles have been assault vehicles the past two editions so I’d imagine that stays the same. I’ve heard deep strike is no longer allowing charges though

>>95858013
A tard wrangler, if you will.

>>95858013
A basic centurion gives 2 detachments. Consuls give 1.

>>95858013
Centurions can unlock 2 detachments, and you can also take one as a logistical advantage

>>95858024
>>95858025
Ok that doesn't sound as bad.

>>95858013
Non-Consul Centurions unlock two Detachments. A Prime Unit per Detachment can bring a friend with (Logistical) Benefits.

I think people who belive duels are gonna be a 1 turn thing are ignoring that ID is no longer a thing and multiple Damage from weapons applies after Saves AND FnP.
Even a Praetor has just 4 attacks. Between hit misses, the odd failed wound and invulnerable attack it doesn't seem like it's going to be fast at all

>>95858025
yeah, but I don't want to buy or run more then two heroes. Just a paladin and a librarian on jetbike.

>>95858052
Surely they will make it so that DA cenobites and paladins can easily one turn any hero of other legion in a single turn, bar maybe a primarch or Sigismund.

>>95858024
I like that there's a real reason to take centurions now instead of immediately upgrading them to consul.

>>95858059
Just pay the centurion tax and put him in some other squad.

>>95858086
Or pay the prime tax and attach them to your apex or primary Detachment, which honestly feels right. Marines will probably get more detachments in the codex anyway, they've been ignoring the force org since 5th edition.

>>95857866 (OP)
>Post your Centurions
I suppose I'll need to make a Centurion or two next.

3.0 is bad and GW should feel bad

>>95858052
>melee vets are dead
>saturnine are predictably shit at melee

>>95858052
Even if you were to use the +1D gambit on a powerfist, it'll still take an average of three rounds of combat for the challenge to end.

>>95858136
>melee vets are dead
I think there are ranged vets and melee vets

>>95858136
They’ve said in an article somewhere assault vets will be a thing Anon

>>95857866 (OP)
With a new edition on the horizon, what new army projects are people working on, even if it’s for older editions of the game

Personally starting a word bearers army

>>95858109
Anon my army has 2 leviathans, 2 doredeaos, 5 contemptors , and a unit of Knight cenobium and Interemptors each in a land raider of their own.

>>95858170
Yeah, so good thing your army is now practically illegal now polish cocksucker.

>>95858136
Damn I guess Vulkan and tech thralls are dead because they ain't in the starter booklet.

>>95858158
Technicaly I have 12 skyhunters or rather a pretor+librarian and 5 skyhunter veterans and 5 regular skyhunter with volkites to paint.

But the air went out of me after seeing the FoC. I will laugh hard, if GW removes the option for pretors/librarians/company veterans to take skyhunter jetbikes, and in the case of the vets spears.

>>95858170
Lmao, a living stereotype

>>95858013
No, you can put a Centurion in the Primary Detachment Prime slot and unlock a Dreadnought in the same detachment plus two more as their own auxiliary detachments.

There's a good chance Liber Astartes/Hereticus will have an auxiliary detachment specifically for dreadnoughts too - but you'll need a Mortificator for that.

>>95858170
kill yourself posthaste

>>95858158
Primed these two centurions.
EC with charnabal sabre and plasma pistol
WE with power axe and chain axe

>>95858189
>WS4 BS5 vets
>"Gee I guess Vulkan must have died"

>>95858052
I dont believe praetors have the same attacks as centurions "normally". Maybe the saturnine praetor has lower attacks? He has a lower S than normal saturnine termies.

Also
>t6 terminators
Jesus christ.

>>95858052
>t6 w3 saturnine
162 BS4 bolter shots to kill one on average

>>95858140
You do know challenges can have infinite rounds of combat in 1 assault phase right?

>>95858136
That is until they want to sell saturnine melee weapon upgrade sprues

>>95858210
We love Sarum pattern helms here. Just a warning though, that talon head on the we is a little crosseyed. Same one I used in my pic

>>95858113
Terminator characters are the only true characters. If I could put my Moritat in one I would.

>>95858136
>Any units that do not have a profile in the starter box pamphlet must be squatted
Damn... that's a lot fo units gone

>>95857960
>In every round of a Challenge after the first, the Player that has Challenge Advantage selects the first Gambit.

>if the selected Gambits' effects are contradictory then the Gambit selected by the Player with Challenge Advantage takes precedence

so when you return to Step 2 in the same phase after an inconclusive Challenge, you have Challenge Advantage and select the first Gambit

ie if you're pretty sure you can tank a round because you know your opponent is going to pick something stupid first, or you just feel like chancing it because you know he needs his Gambit and/or you're unlikely to survive, you can choose Test the Foe and if you make it to a second round you can tell him he can't have his special Gambit again

>>95857937
Seize won't help you if you have I1 and the other guy has I5+1 and Duellist's Edge (2) and like +4 Outside Support because he's Sigismund in a full unit of Huscarls.

>>95858136
>melee vets are dead
Long live melee vets.

>>95858326
...nigga how are you getting 20 huscarls out of a 5 man unit
He'll how do you even get 20 40mm bases in one combat

>>95858120
What are you talking about

>>95858346
>mandatory jump packs
>only has assault squad options

>>95858352
Jesus Christ why are you all so fucking retarded. THE PRAETOR IS LITERALLY DEPICTED WITH A DIFFERENT WEAPON IN THE BOX

>>95858355
>only has assault squad options
The same way veteran tactical squad only has tactical squad options?

>>95858052
>T5S6 3W
>terminator armour
Lol it's upgraded centurion warsuit.

>>95858120
>>95858352
>>95858367
Is this what AI trying to emulate a typical /tg/ conversation looks like?

>>95858351
Huscarls have a special ability where each of them gives +1 to outside support

When are we getting legion proconsuls and propraetors?

>>95858426
What about propanetors?

>>95858351
>...nigga how are you getting 20 huscarls out of a 5 man unit
Oh thats simple. Hes doing what every IF player does, cheat.

>>95858434
Too many proaccessories.

What of Morlock squads? Are they safe? Are they alright?

>>95858477
All legacies are dead

>>95858136
Honestly, I don’t think I will be able to contain my smile if everyone rushes out to buy the saturnine box and those terminators end up sucking.

>>95858052
>Sat terminator is S5
>Sat Preator is S4
WOT?

I have a hunch that SoH will benefit from improved volley shots from Death Dealers. Probably get to shoot at +1 or full BS for the legion rule. Not sure if merciless fighters will stay

>>95858239
no, I'll be honest, my eyes glazed over when I saw the challenge rules. I've been focusing on other things for now.

>>95857958
>wah wah all duels are just gonna boil down to going first
>Anyway here's a way to go first instead

>>95858214
I think normal terminators are likely to be T5 desu
For the attacks, maybe power mau land combi weapon give +1A for whatever reason. Or Saturnine armor takes away 1A like it does Initiative

>>95858515
See, this makes me think this is a "simplified" view of things.

>>95858558
Yea, thats what I was thinking. I dont believe the only difference between praetors and centurions is 1w and 1ws unless this edition was written by someone who had centurions hold his family at gunpoint.

>>95858052
So what's the difference between Shrouded and Feel no pain if instant death is not a thing amymore

>>95858515
The profiles seem to have weapon stats kinda built in

>>95858582
We know saturnine fists are +2S, so are saturnine suits -1S by default?

>>95858574
I don't think there is one. They are both damage mitigation rolls
There's no longer a reaction that give Shrouded tho, so that might be uncommon or work differently

>>95858582
That makes sense since these are baby's first wargame stats on the back of the build instructions

>>95858592
>We know saturnine fists are +2S,
Were was that? I know I've seen it but I can't find it in any of the articles.
>so are saturnine suits -1S by default?
I think they are +1S base if anything

>>95858620
>Saturnine is S3 base
Man, they really went all in on them being shooty terminators huh?

Imagine if the reaction to HH 2.0 starter was the same as to the 3.0 starter
>BRO Tartaros are squatted, it's only Cata now!
>Legion traits are gone!
>They deleted centurions, you can only take praetors now!
>Veterans? Squatted!

>>95858690
>>Legion traits are gone!
Well they are 3/4 gone

>>95858686
>I think they are +1S base if anything
They cant be, the praetor is S4.

Either they dont do anything for S and the terminators are just s5 "because" or those stats factor in weapons and the praetors +1S !paragon blade brings him up to S4, while the saturnine fists with +2S go to s5.

Why the fuck are they introducing these 'shooty vets' when thats what seekers are?

>>95858052
>>95858687
Take these with a grain of salt. They aren't exactly official profiles. It's just for the box minigame. They don't have advanced characteristic either

>>95858537
Given how much LIgma has influence the rules for this edition, I expect the legion traits will reflect the same scope that they had in that game.
>DA
choice of one from a short list of special rules
>EC
get to win initiative or gain a bonus to it once per game
>IW
better Line(x) value
>WS
better jink
>SW
can't infiltrate near them
>IF
bonus to hit for infantry weapons
>NL
inflict status/penalty on enemy army when warlord dies
>BA
better follow-up after combat
>IH
some kind of durability buff if stationary
>WE
bonus to assault
>UM
bonus if shooting something that a unit in the same detachment also shot
>DG
immune to dangerous terrain. makes some terrain/features dangerous
>TS
useless
>SoH
bonus if shooting at close range or perhaps when assaulting
>WB
avoid degradation/penalties to leadership (possibly to cool?)
>Sal
can choose whether or not they fall back rather than rolling after losing combat
>RG
infiltrate
>AL
infiltrate but weirdly worded and probably better

Are cyber familliars going to be made generic in 3.0? Because the centurion you get in the box is specified as having one in his loadout, and I dont imagine they would do that if only like 2 legions got access to it.

>>95858717
There's a box minigame? I thought we were done trying to "tee hee this a boardgame totally not plastic heresy"

>>95858711
Because seekers will be in recon detachments and will require an additional centurion

>>95858730
It would make sense for IW to get them in addition to IH, but generally I agree that they won't want to put legion specific wargear in the main loadout for characters in the launch box.

>>95858737
I think they do it a lot with boxed games where they give you some shitty half assed rules
It's pretty weird that this comes in the same box as the actual Core Rules book tho
Maybe they intend to sell it as a starter without the book later like they do in 40k

>>95858711
seekers are their own role independent of "guys with some combat experience who shoot good."

>>95858751
Tbh they did put Ahriman and Bjorn in BoP
Not the same thing obviously but it's a precedent

>>95858711
Maybe because that's what seekers are called now?
I think one of the pages showed vets had optional rules or something. Maybe you can buy them the special rules that make seekers any different

>>95858766
BoP was a themed box, and the first one they made(or was that calth?), so I dont know how much of that counts as relevant.

But this would be like them having a starting character with an inferno pistol or a grav-shredder, really weird.

>>95858730
I wouldn't call a basic bitch serve skull a cyber-familiar. They are all over the place in the setting

>>95858690
>imagine X but as Y
2.0 reaction was its own thing from shitting on MkVI design, shitting on how MkIV was suddenly everywhere (despite it always having been common suit by late Heresy), people wanting MkVI removed from the game completely, Praetors looking like AoS Stormcast, Primaris aesthetics making its way into muh HH, etc.

>>95858690
Tartarsauce might as well have been squatted for all I saw of them.

Was Horus right all along?

https://youtu.be/RN2vzmgpS6Y?si=lixIcSixDWWB0A-r

>>95858804
>I wouldn't call a basic bitch serve skull a cyber-familiar.
GW would.
>Also in MkII armour is the star of the awesome animated Saturnine cinematic trailer: the Legion Centurion. In addition to his armour (which looks extra fancy, given his rank), he carries a power maul and combi-melta, and he’s accompanied by a cyber-familiar.*

>>95858765
that's a funny way of saying... veterans who are good at shooting.

>>95858814
>GW would.
GW can't be trusted to know their own setting
In all seriousness Cyber-familiar could be a completely different piece of kit. It'd be giving him a 4++ if it worked the same

>>95858804
>Utilised by Techmarines and the Adepts of the Mechanicum, cyber-familiar is a term that encompasses a variety of semiautonomous devices such as servo-skulls

Show the thread you are prepping your legion for challenges.

>>95858765
>seekers are their own role independent of "guys with some combat experience who shoot good."
They are really not
If you had ranged veterans that have access to special bolters and disintegrators, maybe other combiweapons too, then seekers become kinda the same thing. Infiltrate and precission shots could be upgrades you can give them

>>95858844
A Death Guard one for a change
Was in a mood for that colour trio of dull bronze, olive green and bone white

>>95858845
by that logic every unit could be some combination of stat bonus template, special rules and equipment, so we don't need any entries other than "space marine."

>>95858862
I'm glad somebody else finally realizes this. There doesn't need to be any infantry entries in the book other than Tactical Squad and Centurion, with 10 pages of upgrades each.

>>95858859
Hell yeah dude, nice grimy champ!

>>95858817
I have more... Can't remember where I found it, though.

>>95858889
Shiera13.

>>95858844
Looks good anon. The base traitor champion looks like such 3rd party ass, but even just the headswap really reduces that. I like the skin cloak too.

>>95858210
Chain axe is life.

>>95858859
I know he's deathguard, but the full model griminess kinda blends the bronze and the white together too much IMO, but still looks great.

>>95858953
Appreciate it anon!

>>95858844
Who me?
Fight HIM?
LOL
>Scampers

>>95858961
What's up WE bro? I like the old style WE helmets way more than the new ones. They had that great gladiator sorta vibe with the T slit, although the new ones aren't bad either.

I got another batch of 10 lads ready to paint today.

>>95858964
Prior to grime, but it's okay, I can always go back and remove some of the grime later with white spirit

>>95858859
Odds of power scythes not sucking this edition?

>>95858994
Who fucking knows man.

>>95858991
I like the grimy one better personally. Looks more like the old art.

>>95858986
Got them hella cheap off of eBay ages ago. Happy painting mah nigga!

>>95857866 (OP)
Just an honest forge lord

>>95858991
Also my camera sucks because it always captures in a more orange tinge
Irl the colours don't blend in too much

>>95858991
Yeah, I so similar with my world eaters, but your base white is even warmer, but looking good dude.

>>95859035
as long as you don't use a simple white backdrop it'll look bad anyway because there's literally no frame of reference for any color.

>>95859045
Cwispy

>>95859026
>Forge Lord Herve "Two-Face" Dint.

>>95858326
>Sigismund in a full unit of Huscarls
There are going to be some characters you just lose to if you aren't a Primarch. Accept your loss and move on, there's no point in even playing the challenge. When you do have a chance you want to go first. It's that simple.

>>95859050
Yeah, I don't care enough to have a white backdrop lmao
Also some SoH WIP
For anyone wondering,the sea green is Vallejo Xpress Heretic Turquoise, airbrushed over light bone colour

>>95858994
There are so many things up in the air, so who fucking knows.

We dont know what the meta is like, we dont know if reaping blow will change, we dont know what base damage it will have, we dont know if it will keep rending or have breaching instead. We dont know if it will cost extra or be a free power weapon replacer.

Is anyone excited about the prospect of rhino rush coming back?

Not even as some omega powerful strat, I'm just happy at the thought of sending in a bunch of despoiler squads in little boxes. Something about a mechanised assault brings joy to me WE heart.

Come on, GW, fucking do it!
Everything is already in the box.

>>95858975
Just two NL champs and a fair one..right?

>>95859045
World eaters are actually my main army, I like their gladiator aesthetic, their colours and how they play

>>95859079
I like it, if for no reason other than land raiders being the ugliest thing in the world and the fact there may be less of them is good.

>>95859079
My fear is that they make rhinos stupid expensive to compensate like they did in 40k. I don't want 70p rhinos...

>>95859099
you shut your whore mouth!

>>95859096
Reminds me I should blood on him, he already was in one battle already,leading a squad of rampagers that came in with a Dreadclaw and wrecked 2 squads of Smurfs with a multi charge

>>95859120
IT IS A FAT UGLY BOX AND IT LOOKS BAD
THE PROTEUS IS ALSO THE UGLIEST LAND RAIDER VARIANT, BEING THE FATTEST AND BOXIEST OF THEM ALL

While im airing grievances, I also hate how most of the "classic" terminators look.

>>95859145
>Classic terminators
You mean indomitus?

>>95859155
Yes. Ugly fucking thing, especially with the thunder hammer + storm shield variant.

What if they just jack up AV values a couple points across the board

>>95859165
At least we don't have to use them in HH

>>95859175
That would make a lot of tanks invulnerable to damage

>>95859145
Firaeveus Carron? Is that you?

>>95859181
True that. HH gets the sexy cataphractii armor with the big square shoulder pads. Love how it looks.

>>95859175
Assuming land raiders are above 6 hull points and still av 14, you will need around 20 melta guns firing within 6 inches to kill one. AV doesn't need to go up.

>>95859194
I like both Tartaros and Cataphractiis
It's really nice that they both immediately reflect what they're used for, as opposed to Indomitus which is like an inbred version of both,which is funny as it kind of was in HH, where it just became the cheapest terminator armour to make lol while offering benefits of neither

>>95859181
>>95859194

>>95859233
Eww get it away.

>>95859181
>>95859194
YOU MUST USE THEM

>>95859213
I assume the math is from hitting and getting a 6 on armour pen? Because the new rules are that armourbane makes every glancing be a pen hit + melta does 6 damage per hit at melta range.

>>95858975
kek

>>95858351
10 dudes with Bulky (2) vs you and the guy your girlfriend assured you was a great swordsman

>>95859233
i know it exists, I see it in newrecruit when I make a list,but that doesn't mean I have to use it, or even acknowledge it

>>95859259
You just acknowledged it twice nerd.

>>95859244
Yeh, bs 4. Around 13 will hit and then around 2 will penetrate. Could be worse if ceramite comes back in some form. If predators get 6 hull points I'm assuming a land raider will at least have 7.

>>95859213
>you will need around 20 melta guns firing within 6 inches to kill one
1 * 2/3(hits on 3+) * 1/6(6 to pen) * 6(6 hull points worth of damage) = 2/3. A marine firing a melta gun at melta range does 2/3 of a hull point on average.

A squad of 10 marines does around 6 hull points. A squad of 20 will do 12 (well, a bit more, closer to 13).

>>95859265
Acknowledge what?

>>95859267
>I'm assuming a land raider will at least have 7.
Its going to be double. Thats how I think theyll do it, every tank (or near enough) will have double HP.

I still think vehicles would have been as is if they gave them like 20% or more HP and made explodes result just do what it does for super heavies etc i.e. additional D3 damage

>>95859292
*Been fine as is

>>95859079
> rhino rush
I like mechanized armies, but let's not forget that a disordered charge means I1.

>>95859292
I think vehicles should simply be harder to damage. You want them expensive, tough, impactful, and degrading over time. A tank should feel like a tank, something that you slowly weather down over the game, blowing bits off until it pathetically limps along before death.

>>95858477
It would seem, in their haste, GW squatted them.

>>95859303
Tanks are pretty solid in Heresy 1.
What was the reason they became shit in Heresy 2?

>>95859312
They made anti-tank guns really fucking good. Also reactions (which they didnt benefit from).

Compare that to the dreadnought, which became better vs anti-tank guns and could react normally.

>>95859303
When you think about it, isn't that kind of what they did with the glancing hits changes?

>>95859318
I definetly think thats what they intended. Although I worry its going to just end up being "fine, fine, fine, fine, spooked, dead", since the gap between "oneshot by melta" and "crew shaken" is now razor thin.

>>95859302
yeah you're not charging out of a rhino into an enemy command squad and wiping them (well, maybe you do if you have only powerfists or something?), but you WILL charge out of a rhino into a tac squad/hss/other non melee unit and crump them, even at init 1.

>>95859107
back in 3e 40k rhino rush days, they were 50 points from memory.

>>95859269
>A squad of 10 marines does around 6 hull points. A squad of 20 will do 12 (well, a bit more, closer to 13).
That's what he said
Rhinos are 5HP, land raider are not going to be 6
And all this is assuming you are in melta range, which you are unlikely to be

>>95859312
Lascannons having sunder means all vehicles are very easy to kill.

Reactions HEAVILY buffed HSS/dreads with returnfire/interceptor, which vehicles lost out on. This also means in shooty duels, vehicles are just entirely outclassed.

Honestly shooting reactions are so fucking gay, they made a few minor nerfs in 3.0, but they need to just stop fucking about and make it if you react shoot in your enemy's turn, you don't get to shoot in your2xwy4ks.

>>95859312
When lascannons no longer cost 25 points and meltaguns didn't literally have their benefits turned off by armored ceramite.

>>95859358
>Reactions HEAVILY buffed HSS
Not really. You literally just had to shoot at them with tacticals. But for some reason this concepts scaped the average HH player for 3 years...

>>95859312
Antitank guns too good and too cheap
Unable to do proper reactions for no reason when everyone can
Basically worse dreadnoughts in every way
Damage table means anyone sneezes at you are you are going to be hitting on 6s at the very least
And land raiders and spartans have always had the problem of being to damn expensive to be a transport that can become immobilized on turn 1.
It's a shame because they released a lot of great kits

>>95859302
Charging?
I'm gonna deploy a boltergunline that'll make a Tau player seethe.

>>95859394
>Not really.
Bro what, reactions turned HSS into a mutually assured destruction target. no one wanted to shoot them because they know they were going to get shot the fuck back and nuked off the board, no one wanted to charge them because they were going ot get overwatched and blasted before they even got into melee.
But you could not leave them to their own devises, you had to kill them.

You were not gonna be getting into range with tacticals or have any tacticals make it to them before said tacticals got merked. Because no one save for retards just sat HSS out there with out something in between them and said tacticals.

>>95859422
Sick!

>>95859394
Yeah lemme just walk this tac squad into fury range of this lascannon squad. I am sure nothing will kill me in the meantime.

>>95859433
>mutually assured destruction target
yes, that's why you shoot at them with something that's in no why worth the same points. Like tactical marines
Tacticals shoot at 24" that's plenty of range
Same way you deal with dreadnoughts that have Brutal 3 and WS5, you through cheap bodies at them
You don't want to do that, you use one of the multiple ways to turn off reactions or you outrange them with sniper rifles or you shoot at them with a scorpius
Instead I've had to hear everyone here bitching about how broken HSS are for 3 years or how feeding 50ppm terminators to a dreadnought is so unfair

>>95858844
>Have no characters
>Can't lose combat due to a lost challenge
>Can't get debuffed from a denied challenge
>Don't have to learn the challenge phase rules
I'm gonna do what is called in the business a pro gamer move.

>>95859512
>can't build a legal army >0 points

>>95859394
>You literally just had to shoot at them with tacticals
Anon, whats longer, the range of a lascannon or the range of boltguns (or better yet, the effective range of boltguns)?
What happens if instead of lascannons the HSS has say, volkite, or plasma, or even autocannons and heavy bolters?

The BEST case scenario for "just use tactical marines" is that the other guy gets so greedy he gets lit up by 10/20 bolter rounds, takes a couple casualties (20 bolter rounds is like what, 2/3 dead dudes?), and then gets nothing done for it. But in that instance he still likely prevented you from firing at them with something else, likely nastier and more expensive.
Alternatively he returned fire, and traded 1-2 dead HSS for a tactical squad/most of one, which is actually a pretty good trade, because tactical marines arent actually free or infinitely expendable.

Meanwhile tanks cant even do that. That is an ability that HSS gained that vehicles did not: to deter heavy weapons fire through the promise of mutual annihilation.The best answer to HSS were things that they COULDNT respond to, plasma predators, scorpiuises (scorpii?), nemesis bolters. But thats not "lol just use tactical marines,, thats "bring very specific specialist tools to make sure that every HSS on the table doesent go 3 for 1 on you"

>>95859501
who the fuck tries to forcefeed dreads 'cheap bodies'? unless its a tactical squad on an objective for stubbord, the dread WILL win combat, then likely sweep the entire squad.

Shooting reactions are bullshit because its just free turns of extra shooting at no cost.

>>95859520
There are no compulsory HQ.

>>95859524
I feed them stubborn ld 11 solar aux rifleman, it's pretty funny.
But yeah, the guy you are replying to is a retard.

>>95859512
>can only field three tactical squads

>>95859501
>Same way you deal with dreadnoughts that have Brutal 3 and WS5, you through cheap bodies at them
What, unless that squad is fearless, its gonna last 1 round of combat, then get swept off the board like, im not sure what situations you are making up in your mind but it aint reality.
The only good thing tacticals had was sitting on objectives in a fat 15+ man blob with an apoth,
> bitching about how broken HSS are for 3 years
Gee its almost like it was fucking broken and thats why every one is bitching about it

Im not gonna be shocked when you tell me you play DG or IF lol.

>>95859568
>tactical squad plus transports
>prime slot gives you a logistics detchment
>lord of war still available
>allied detachment's infantry still available
It's doable

>>95859568
There is four troops slot and four transport slots, and one of those troops is a prime slot allowing you to add another slot of anything that isn't a LOW or primarch.

I hope to god armoured spearhead
>exists
and
>makes land raiders become light transport slot
>makes predators become troops slot

>>95859565
Yeah, as soon as you get stubborn, its totally worth the gamble, especially normal humans.

Feeding any marines into a dread is extremely desperate though.
Speaking of, its a shame breachers just... aren't actually very good defensively. The loss of defensive nades was a damn shame, and they're too expensive to throw at something like a dread for sacrifice.

>>95859565
i saw something like that done in an apoc game, dude charged a fat blob of tech thralls into a leviathen and died it up all game long.

>>95859608
Yeah i have tried to make breachers work and they just dont. They might be good in 3.0 since they can take 2 special wepons and you can now move and shoot heavy so that means you can fire 2 grav on the move or 2 las cuttesr on the move. IDK how expensive melta is gonna be but they can also take 2 melta as well. I like breachers but fuck they are costly for nothing really worth it.

>>95859585
At 3000 points you can also add a heavy transport with the warlord detachment.

>>95859591
>add another slot of anything that isn't a LOW or primarch.
Or an apex detachment.

>>95858844
I have a character and gal vorbak in the mail sadge. Need to see what weapon stats are before i go all in on a thunder hammer or corrupted weapons

>>95859619
>Apex
>Be me
>Have my 3 consuls
>Be DA player
>All my consuls now have their own DWC Retinue
Feels good man.

The 3rd ed perfectly legal 2.5k under current points Rhino melta list.

crusade detachment
praetor 120
centurion 60
centurion 60
centurion 60
rhino - multimelta 65
rhino - multimelta 65
rhino - multimelta 65
rhino - multimelta 65

armoured fist
rhino - multimelta 65
rhino - multimelta 65
rhino - multimelta 65
rhino - multimelta 65

armoured fist
rhino - multimelta 65
rhino - multimelta 65
rhino - multimelta 65
rhino - multimelta 65

armoured fist
rhino - multimelta 65
rhino - multimelta 65
rhino - multimelta 65
rhino - multimelta 65

armoured fist
rhino - multimelta 65
rhino - multimelta 65
rhino - multimelta 65
rhino - multimelta 65

armoured fist
rhino - multimelta 65
rhino - multimelta 65
rhino - multimelta 65
rhino - multimelta 65

armoured fist
rhino - multimelta 65
rhino - multimelta 65
rhino - multimelta 65
rhino - multimelta 65

armoured fist
rhino - multimelta 65
rhino - multimelta 65
rhino - multimelta 65
rhino - multimelta 65

>>95859635
Pure autism, i love it

>>95859614
I got some value out of breachers using 10 man squads with two meltaguns and thunder hammer + artificer on the sergeant, slogging on foot. Don't need cover to advance under scorpius blasts and lascannons, and the two meltaguns + thunder hammer makes them a reasonable threat against dreadnoughts. Not amazing mind you, but it worked well enough for me.

>>95859649
Yeah i had some minor sucess doing that but i also gave them a LR to zip up the board with, nothing great but i mean eh, it was cool?

>>95859635
Uh, based?

>>95859635
So does this army actually do anything, or is it just annoying?

>>95859661
It goes vroom vroom and melts shit

>>95859661
>Does it do anything
Yeah 32 Multi Melta shots, duh.

>>95859635
I dare you to actually assemble and paint this up and bring it to a tournament.

Imagine if it actually stomps.

>>95859672
>Imagine if it actually stomps.
Its not gonna stomp, its all vehicles dumb ass, they are not walks.

>>95859667
>It goes vroom vroom
You have 32 rhinos. It gets stuck in a traffic jam in its deployment zone more like.

>>95859635
>mfw

>>95859670
>try dive bombing the formation
>get sent flying from the thermal updraft before you even reach the melta beams

Oh shit only just noticed this: no more getting pinned as a result of a return fire/overwatch!

>>95859600
You know you don't need to bring troops right? Provided you can take a tank of some kind in the command slot (command rhino, maybe) you can have all your auxiliary detachments be armoured fists and armoured support.

>>95859705
Boooo!

>>95859715
That's gonna depend on the command tank being a command unit, which as part of the emphasis on characters and challenges, I doubt.

>>95859715
you need HQs to do that though
we dont know if a command rhino is a HQ or if it will allow you to take extra detachments

and even then, its forcing me to spend money and points in command rhinos i have no want nor need for

>>95859635
This ALWAYS fucking happens as soon as Rhinos become their own datasheet entry instead of being tied to the troops they are transporting, I fucking swear!
It isn't Razorback spam only because those haven't been invented yet...though it is a multi-melta, so I say it counts.

>>95859304
But .. But ...
I just converted some ... Got custom 3rd party bits ...
They are newly painted i just put them in an army list right there!!!
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOO

>>95859730
decurion lanius?

>>95859635
Extremely based

>>95859745
decurions being command units would be interesting

you still have to pay the slot for the tank he goes in, but he unlocks the slot/detachment to begin with

>>95859733
This. Who knows, maybe Rites of War will be allowing units to fill different roles? Armoured Assault will be about bringing a Predator or Siccaran as a High Command slot, Predators in the troop slots and Land Raiders in the Light Transport slots yeee

Would it be “not HH” to model my Death Guard guys as proto-Plague Marines? Like with exposed guts and pustules and stuff?

>>95859733
>>95859730
Yeah, that is the main caveat.
If GW cared about flavourful list building at all lol they'd have a tank commander option that you could just tack onto any sicaran, predator or kratos platform to provide you with standard command benefits. Maybe since decurions were a thing they recently made models for, they may still decide to do it.

>>95859756
I can only hope.

>>95859733
You're probably gonna have to suffer a couple characters. Even the war-co article saying nothing is compulsory says most armies will need an extra character or two.
But that's an oppritunity to make characters that look like tank crew who bailed out of broken vehicles or forward-operating scouts in bikes or camo cloaks, don't despair.

>>95859661
Theoretically you could rush all the boxes forward and just encircle enemy units, literally BOXing them in so they can't move, and hopefully exploding when they kill you to get out. In the mean time you are dumping multi melta shoots into shit

>>95859778
>-4 Init
Bro's gonna strike all the way after the Glory step lmao

>>95859772
They might though, because of the changes.
And there might be alternate crusade detachments a la Rites of War that let you do these things.

>>95859788
Anon they can just charge and kill your rhinos. Theyre rhinos, they die to a stiff summer breeze.

>>95859771
No that's just a Siege of Terra era army, or late Heresy (Solar War, maybe Beta Garmon)

>>95859792
>>95859778
So this had me thinking. If EC get some sort of built in bonus to Duelest edge like naturally, fucking EC Divination Librarians with a hammer is gonna be scary as fuck. Basically just counters the -4 or -3 IM

>>95859635
perhaps I was too harsh on the new force org chart

>>95859783
its not terrible because I play AL and will most likely jist be able to take 2 exodus...es (exodii?) to fill out slots and hooefully get detachments

but the point is that i dont really want to do that

>>95859796
That's where most of your damage comes from, if rhinos just auto explode on death.
You are just bathing the enemy in S8 and hoping they fail saves

>>95859806
>if rhinos just auto explode on death.
They dont? Even if they have the explodes(x) rule (which they probably do) its not a guarantee, and since explosions are still Ap- but now not instant death (damage 1 lel) then they wont be very good vs anything with armor or multiple wounds.

>>95859806
They no longer ID terminators and such purely by virtue of Str 8 though, so it's gonna be less effective than it used to be.

>>95859813
Didn't say this was a tournament winning list you fucking autist but it's how you would play the list

>>95859792
Hammer go smash, I do not care if he dies before he gets a chance to swing, because if he does live, he's gonna win. I don't even need to see the legion rules for Space Wolves, I just have faith

>>95859797
Very interesting. I’m honestly stuck between them and Word Bearers for purely thematic reasons.

>>95859804
Yes. I am waiting myself to see if my collection can stomach the new list building. Probably but only probably.

>>95859778
Barrels, drillem.

>>95859819
Anon im literally just correcting your statement around how explodes works (or rather doesent). If I wanted to tell you why the list sucks I would just point out that "objectives" and "scoring shit" are things. And you have zero line.

GW!!!!!

ALLOW DECURIONS TO GO IN ANY TANK WITH A PINTLE MOUNT, AND MY LIFE, IS YOURS!

>>95859847
>forgets image
AND MASTERS OF ARMOUR TOO!

>>95859847
>fellblade decurions
Hell yeah

>>95859788
>>95859735
>>95859672
>>95859788
Reminder that this list could force 32 moral tests per turn with tank shock (more, if the enemy is clustered).
Reminder that tank shocking fleeing units simply deletes them.
Also if a unit passes its moral test, but has no where it phyiscally move out of the way of the incoming vehicle (due to say, 5 other rhinos surrounding you, you ALSO are simply removed from play.

>mfw you can delete terminator elite squads by just crushing them with half a dozen rhinos.

>>95859856
would sell more plastic ones

>>95858844
Gonna have to wait a little until I can start making some cool sergeants and characters, so have a WIP of some Proximan Sacramentii for my planned Sallies The green looks way less patchy and dogshit when I'm looking at it with my eyes I swear, cameras really have a way of revealing all flaws

>>95859845
>Even HH is corrupted by making the game about scoring abstract "Victory Points" by standing on le epic e-sports Halo Multiplayer king of the hill circles that are all within the range of half a football field.
Might as well just play 40k 10th edition garbage.

>>95859772
>or kratos
Oof if only

>>95859861
They do not have to worry about selling plastic fellblades

>>95859678
@Grok, reword this as if an ork had said it

>>95859862
I actually really like the green anon, it looks good.

>>95859866
Objectives arent a new thing.

But also:
>implying objectives arent necessary to incorporate more meaningful narrative beyond "and then the two blobs of mens shot each other a whole bunch and then someone died less" (which your rhinos would still not win btw)

How else do you do "we are trying to recover equipment" or "the enemy is trying to breach a data vault" without objectives of a kind? Theyre abstract points, but those abstract points do (or should) represent narrative elements. You arent winning because you had dudes standing on a funny hill, you win because your forces managed to keep the data-uplink terminal under control long enough to shut it down/finish transmission, or because your forces managed to hold the strategic locations which determined the next stage of the battle in your favor beyond the current conditions.

>>95859804
>You could take 2 Exodii in the old FOC
>You can now take 4 Exodians, the forbidden ones
BRO

>>95859889
You never played good editions of 40k, clearly.

>>95859873
It's not gonna stomp, it'z all trukks ya git, they's not kanz

>>95859895
>implying 40k had good editions

>>95859901
4th and 5th were great you shut your fucking whore mouth you tau playing filth.

>>95859889
The new line changes DO make it super gamey abstract shit though.

>my line(3) tactical squad claims the data vault and gets 4 vp
>the enemy ass scratcher squad gets the other data vault but gets 1vp

How is that anything but gamey?

>>95859913
DESU this issue was solved by having everything just be worth 1 VP and then having tactical objective cards.

>>95859911
3rd and 4th*

5th was where it started going downhill, although it wasn't as bad as it got over the next few editions.

>>95859922
OK, but that's not what the changes in 3.0 are doing, so?

>>95859913
>the line mooks fail their intelligence check and gets nothing
>hackerman techmarine passes his check and gets 1vp
GG ez no re

>>95859913
A tactical squad is better equipped to do whatever specific thing needs to be done on the objective to actually get the VP. Same as its always been.
The only difference is that before you would have terminators simply not know how to press the buttons, whereas now theyre simply worse at it (less prepared for this specific eventuality/ dont have the auxiliary gear/whatever)

Use theater of the mind a little. Theres obviously some level of gameyness to it (why do flags make you score vs do nothing) but the general logic is still there.

>>95859882
Cheers nonny, it'll be a little darker once it gets slopped in nuln like pic related but the green should still hopefully show through a little. Very eager to send these guys out on a field trip to Istvaan with their power armoured big bros.

>>95859932
It's EXTREMELY gamey, quit downplaying it, retard. In old editions the game managed to have abstract missions that still felt immersive and real like you were accomplishing military goals, not fucking "stand in the magic circles where there just happen to be a whole bunch of convenient DATA VAULTS represented by nothing but a token all within a hundred feet of each other within L-shaped terrain ruins"

The real solution here is that units with comms equipment should be the only ones capable of scoring objectives, and objectives should only ever be mutually agreed upon pieces of terrain.

what would happen if two astartes forces both decided to go up the center at one other?

>>95859966
Gay homosex

>>95859945
I understand youre retarded, but even you should be able to understand that "data vault" was just an example used, rather than some universal explanation of all objectives.

Objectives are just objectives, it literally doesent matter what exactly they are. They could be supply depots, points of strategic importance on the local battlefield, places where enemy intelligence is located, represent safe-shelters for civilians caught in the warzone. Coming up with appropriate narrative explanations for the objectives of any specific game is YOUR job.

>all within a hundred feet of each other within L-shaped terrain ruins"
Yea dipshit, its within the same area as the battle takes place. The same exact abstractions apply. Its why artillery can only fire like a football field away from itself.

>>95859975
"the armies are fighting at this location because there are points of strategic interest, and controlling them is important" should not be a difficult concept to understand.

wut da zog is an objektiff can't two groups of boys just be down for a good krumpin????

>>95859966
a large number of big, muscly, sweaty dudes grinding and grappling one another in a big mosh pit

>>95859635
>>95859735
HH3.0 is going to have 40K's little rule about transports needing to start with a unit inside them or else they just explode turn 1.

>>95859975
>Objectives are just objectives, it literally doesent matter what exactly they are.
Yeah nothing matters, just play with cardboard pieces, or paint your guys in gay pride flag colors, lol it's just a game bro! Who cares!

>They could be supply depots
Okay then make it an actual supply depot, you know, a big fucking warehouse full of stuff that you need to defend by having no enemy units around it at the end of the game. Not a little fucking objective token the size of a dog turd that you magically gain magic "points" for having guys stand near it for two turns but then if they leave and the enemy is standing on it at the end of the game it doesn't matter because you already got the points, and some units somehow magically get more of those magic abstract points.

Fucking retard, make it an actual SUPPLY DEPOT and play a WARGAME.

>points of strategic importance on the local battlefield
The scale of 40k would be only things of tactical importance, if it's strategic it's larger than the table.

>places where enemy intelligence is located
So pick up the intelligence and move it off the field, you don't stand there and collect points.

>represent safe-shelters for civilians caught in the warzone
Safe shelters aren't the size of a fucking beer keg that you gain points for standing near.

You are such a faggot.

>>95859922
>tactical objective cards

I love tabletop miniatures games that come down to who draws their Blue Eyes White Dragon first.

>>95859894
>4
you can take infinite exodii because a command slot unlocks a detachment to take 2 command slots, and so on etc etc...

>>95859616
We don't know to get those. The rules don't say

>>95860107
Nah, that's an apex detachment. You only unlock it by taking a Praetor in your Crusade detachment.

>>95859991
The only people who use this argument to defend the mission design style of "gain VP for standing on 12 meter diameter circles" have absolutely no experience with anything to do with war or military operations, have never read any books on WW2 or past conflicts, and are basically clueless noguns faggot pussy retards making piss-weak excuses for bad design.

"Locations of strategic importance" does not mean this tiny little area that you have half a dozen of scattered over one tiny table. "Locations of strategic importance" means entire air fields, entire military bases, entire fuel refineries that would cover half the table, a big fucking bridge over a big fucking river, things of actual concrete SUBSTANCE that should be represented by MODELS and that you need to be in possession of when the battle is over, or you lose. You can't stand there for three turns (which in real terms is like a few seconds), collect points, and then walk away and let the opponent occupy it, but he gets less points because he only stood there for two turns and his units weren't the magic ones that get more bonus points, so somehow you win. That's immensely fucking RETARDED,

>>95860087
>Okay then make it an actual supply depot
You make it retard. If you lack theater of the mind so hard, go and make your objective markets little dioramas and shit to placate your autism.

>Not a little fucking objective token the size of a dog turd that you magically gain magic "points" for having guys stand near it for two turns but then if they leave and the enemy is standing on it at the end of the game it doesn't matter because you already got the points
Clearly you already looted the place, duh.

>and some units somehow magically get more of those magic abstract points.
Try and clear out a warehouse using a vindicator dipshit. Not every unit is going to be equipped for whatever the necessary mission to do with the objective is, whether its serving as the general holding force (possibly representing wider forces beyond just those present on the battlefield), being a lynchpin around which your army can rally or doing some random crap there. Some units can do it, some cant. Thats what Line represents.

>if it's strategic it's larger than the table.
Which is why objectives feel abstract at the scale of the table. Why X objective is necessary for the big picture might not be evident just looking at the battlefield, and yet it still is. Its why you can "lose the battle" (have less forces left) but win the war (have more objectives, representing an accomplishment of larger strategic objectives)

>you don't stand there and collect points.
You standing there collecting points represents you recovering more intelligence. Raiding a database or recovering more holotapes or whatever. Try and think with that noggin.

>Safe shelters aren't the size of a fucking beer keg that you gain points for standing near.
The entrance to them might well be. Its an underground bunker or something.

Anyone able to help me identify where the pauldron on the left is from?

>>95858013
why didn't they just bring back boxnaughts instead of that abortion they call the saturnine dread

>>95859868
>Sicaran Venator warlord in a unit of other Sicaran Venators
Gimme

Have we seen anything about sanctic/daemonic/esoterist psychic powers in the leak? Wanna know if we have any daemon rules so I can play my esoterist and brutes early on or if I'll have to wait months

>>95860149
Mor Deythan with the RG icon shaved off

>>95860147
>Clearly you already looted the place, duh.
Then it's not important to stand there anymore is it?

>Try and clear out a warehouse using a vindicator dipshit
You just said it already got looted. So we're physically carrying off the material while fighting, then? Except, a battle in 40k time length lasts a matter of minutes so you wouldn't be running off with the goods while being shot at, you would just kill all of the opponents trying to take the stuff and drive them off, and then carry the stuff when there aren't bullets flying at you. Unless it's some super critical relic or something, then you can have one guy pick it up while everyone else fights. You still don't gain "points" you either carry the relic or you do not.

>Which is why objectives feel abstract at the scale of the table
If it's abstract it doesn't matter if you're standing within 3" of a particular shitty token or not, the whole table is the magic "important zone" you need to be standing on.

Etc.

>The entrance to them might well be. Its an underground bunker or something.
So why would you gain points for standing over it if you don't hold that territory at the end of the battle? The point is not to let the enemy in the civilian bunkers, then your objective is to kill all the enemy or make them flee off the table and not get to the entrances by the end of the game.

>>95860132
>"Locations of strategic importance" means entire air fields, entire military bases, entire fuel refineries that would cover half the table, a big fucking bridge over a big fucking river
Hey dipshit, do you understand that the size of the battlefield is already an abstraction? That battle tanks dont have maximum ranges measured in walking distances? You arent reaching the maximum range of a boltgun in a few turns (or as you put it "a few seconds") in "real life".

The battlefield is inherently abstract, you arent fighting over three houses and a statue, youre fighting in a dense urban environment amids the burning ruins of hive XV-37 on Typhon IV. That little "3" marker in that ruin over there doesent represent a little "3" marker, it represents control of a valuable position which contributes to overall battlefield control. The tower over there isnt just a tower, its an imperial comms fortress...

Abbadon and Sigismund arent having a bash with a couple dozen dudes each over a football field, theyre waging large scale war on an epic battlefield.

>>95859799
I really don't want hammers to be D3

>>95860149
Tortuga Bay has these blank. It's probably from therem

>>95860187
Apart from vehicles being a little shrunk down the scale is not abstract you fucking retard. One tree is one tree, one building is one building. The models aren't fighting over miles of ground, they're fighting over precisely 96 meters x 144 meters on a standard table, it's a single quick clash, the timescale of turns is measured in how long it takes a Space Marine to move around 15 meters and shoot a couple rounds. This is what the game is. If you want super abstract shit you play Epic.

>>95860178
>Then it's not important to stand there anymore is it?
You could have taken more if you had more time.

>So we're physically carrying off the material while fighting, then?
Yes, you captured a bunch of valuable equipment (power armor, ammo, fuel, who cares) and fought a fighting retreat.

>Except, a battle in 40k time length lasts a matter of minutes
Naturally, everyone is just acting in such super-speeed that they cross the ranges of firing platforms in a matter of minutes.

>the whole table is the magic "important zone" you need to be standing on.
Clearly not, or you would score for standing anywhere. The abstract important thing is the objective; its why you get points for scoring it. The abstract part is that holding the objective actually represents something beyond "stood near big die"

>So why would you gain points for standing over it if you don't hold that territory at the end of the battle?
Because you evacuated some civilians while the area was secure, or because you alternatively killed some civilians while you had the chance before being driven off.

>>95859832
I would, but my friend has borrowed and basically stolen my pin vice drill.
Fuck it I should just go buy a new one

>>95860219
>Clearly not, or you would score for standing anywhere.
Circular logic. "My that the game design is right is that the game is designed that way." With posts this retarded I can't even engage anymore, I'm getting exhausted trying to explain simple concepts to a fucking retard. Enjoy your shit game.

>>95860214
>The models aren't fighting over miles of ground, they're fighting over precisely 96 meters x 144 meters on a standard table
The maximum range of a boltgun is like 40 metres, got it. Space tank cannons couldnt reach the end of my street.

Of course the size isnt (necessarily) 1:1 you ape, that would be insane. Do you think artillery has a maximum range measured in double digits of metres?

>>95859635
I'm trying to follow along on the chart, and I don't understand how this list is legal. Can someone explain? Does each HQ choice unlock an armored fist? Or just the the first HQ choice?

>>95860245
sorry wrong image

>>95860242
Yeah the gun range is explicitly shrunk down for game purposes because otherwise 28mm scale would take up your entire house for a game, but the physical models being 1:1 is literally explicit from the designers going all the way back to Rogue Trader, you dumb fuck.

>>95860254
Each Command slot filled unlock an Aux detachment of your choice
Each high command slot filled unlocks an apex detachment of your choice

>>95860259
>Yeah the gun range is explicitly shrunk down
So in other words the actual distances are abstract you retard. Glad you concede the point.

>but the physical models being 1:1 is literally explicit
MkIII armor is famous for being head and shoulders above MKIV and MKV armor in terms of height.

>>95860274
Also, taking a standard Centurion in a command slot unlocks two aux. detachments.

>>95860274
High command also can be used to unlock aux detachments.

So I start off with High Command and 3 centurions, one of whose prime slots gets me another centurion, and then I get 2 more centurions from apex one of whom gets to be a real badass thanks to that prime slot, and then I get 2 of my Thousand Son centurions in an allied detachment.
So 9 centurions/consuls before I have to take infantry.

>>95860465
I'm not sure I'm really interested in the return of HeroHammer.

>>95858844
my issue is that he doesnt look...."alpha legion"

he was originally built to be the warlord of my blackshields warband, he was a world eater who killed the previous warband leader who was a....sons of horus? (i forgot, might have been a blood angel)

>>95860485
When 8th effectively dropped the FOC all I started playing with were silly joke lists. Since you can just take allied centurions without any support you can just pick whichever legion has the best moritats and roll up with a pair of them. Thousand son pyromancer suicide moritats running forwards and then exploding sounds pretty funny.

>>95860500
Some scales painted onto some armour panels would be more than enough to sell the AL look I think anon

>>95859635
I mean

technically you could fit 258 Rhinos onto a standard 72"x48" board but

>>95860277
this is not the meaning of abstract.
A single space marine not being able to solo 100 guardsmen on the table is not abstraction, its game balance.

Objectives are largely abstract because it's 'stand in range of token for abstract points'. You can fluff it up as to what exactly your dudes are doing around the objective, or what the objective is, but victory points as an abstract concept. they're not a real thing.

>>95860465
>one of whose prime slots gets me another centurion
Logistical Benefit does not permit (High) Command choices

>>95860524
>entire army is just 30 moritats
>enemy can only shoot one model at a time, so physically won't have enough units to stop them all

>>95860568
What if board size changed?

>>95860658
high command is a praetor/ master of the legion right?

>>95860500
>WE iron halo
>Toothed right pauldron (left one is fine)
I mean, yeah he doesn't look AL? The unbroken chain on his leg is fine though

Land Raiders and Spartans are going to be INSANE in 3.0, on average 10 lascannons will do 4 hull points to a Land Raider, and only 2 on a Flared Shielded Spartan. LR will probably have 10 HP and Spartans 12.

>But MELTA

By the time you can blow up Land Raiders and Spartans with meltas and multi-meltas they will have ALREADY DELIVERED THEIR CARGO.

>They are too expensive

Well yeah they should be, LR and Spartans need to have lascannon sponsons so their cost goes up. If they had say, heavy bolters, they would be too efficient at delivering troops for low cost. (looks at Land Raider Crusader with fear). If you put Lascannons on their hulls you went full retard.

Even Allahu Ackbar Jihad Jetbike squads with multimeltas can´t reach them on turn one, and afterwards the transports already puked their cargo on the midboard.

>What do I put in them?

The obvious answer is praetor deathstars, 20 tac marines for wounds and praetors and champions with the most damaging weapons GW fucks up on balance. They will stick to the center of the board and bully everything in the midfield wile LINEing the objective for tons of points (There´s always and obj in the middle, and if not, PUT ONE THERE).

But most units can benefit from plain Land Raiders, even garbage like volkite chargers (depending on points), or Rotor Cannons that can just spam shots and beg for 2´s can be good to keep pushing the midboard for the second wave of walking marines who cap objectives.

>What to do?

Start painting BEEG CHUNGUS units like Neutron Laser Battery Cerberus or wait for the plastic Falchion with Volcano Cannon, things that can actually do lots of Hull Points at long range to slow down the rush on turn one. Alternatively paint a bunch of camo marines so you can infiltrate Recon Marines as literal roadblocks to gain a turn before the midboard gets flooded.

Or just play Land Raiders and Spartans.

>>95860682
So far it is unknown, but most likely it is.

>>95860682
Probably praetors or delegatus or named character.

>>95860166
No daemon rules until year 3 followed by HH 4.0 two months later.

Everything else about duels aside, is there a good answer to dueling against guys in a big squad?
Other than just shoot the squad away first or have a big squad of your own?

I can’t see any way where fighting a guy with +3/+4 to his roll (and also attacks if he grandstands) isn’t gonna mean I basically always go second, particularly as heavy also has -1 (will cataphractii also have -1I like saturnine?)
I guess having a good dedicated anti-MEQ retinue can whittle the advantage down in a few turns, but that won’t really matter if my guy is already dead

>>95860792
shoot them before they can duel you

>>95860792
The whole duel system is extremely fucked. You can have:
Mirror matchups where the outcome is determined by the 1 d6 roll of 'who gets to fist the other dude first'
And mirror(ish) matchup where one guy all but guaranteed to go first and win because of various modifiers.

And if you can somehow build some omega tank saturnine brickwall man that can survive anything reliably and swing harder with finishing blow or whatever than... whats the point of all the other dudes?

Whole thing seems very gimmicky, and is just pushing the weird herohammer thing they have going on, where every army of 50 guys has 6 centurions leading them for some reason.

Man I just want to play big masses of ordinary marines clobbering each other, not 'elite units and heros mushing everyone weaker than them'.

Which slot is the turret and tarantulas going to be in?

How's 3.0 looking for the beeps and the boops?

>>95860849
They're pretty cool.

>>95860849
hopefully they rewrite their entire liber from scratch so half their shit isn't broken

Is there a rule somewhere saying you can only have one primary detachment?

Cause if not, assuming I’m not misreading these massive blocks of text, is there anything to stop just taking single centurions with logistical benefit to add 3 slots?
More broadly, couldn’t I just milk the prime slot benefits by putting solo units in more detachments

I guess they're going to have to take piles of squishy Magos. In a system dominated by challenges they're not looking too great, but buffs to shooting might help them out.

>>95859783
Remember that there are rules for vehicles in challenges

Can i get the run down on how word bearers play? Both historically and from what 3.0 looks like?

>>95860864
Nothing allows you to take an additional primary Detachment.

>>95860858
broken in the "OP" sense or broken in the "Doesn't work" sense?

>>95860893
In both editions they have legion special rules around morale (3d6 pick lowest for morale in 1.0, can't have LD lowered below 6 in 2.0) and some soft buff to melee (sweeping advance buffs in 1.0 and winning drawn combats in 2.0).

Most of their power comes from their unique units, upgrades and wargear which are extensive. In both editions they can pay to make some of their HQs psykers with various powers which is fun, as well as some chaos-y upgrades for their infantry. Their special units are all some flavor of melee beatsticks, with the Gal Vorbak (super possessed marines) and Mhara Ghal (possessed contemptor dread) being their 'iconic' units imo.

Anyone else thinking about 2nd ed style schemes for their 30k army?

Or is the red era too colorful to tap into?

>>95860849
Born dead: 3.0 uses 2.0's WS chart, which is extremely punishing for being even a single point below the attacker, which will be a common scenario for Mechanicum.
Also, high toughness models are weaker than ever: Thallax will no longer receive a single wound when tanking a melta shot or power fist like they used to; their biggest advantage was being able to survive Instant Death, which is gone.
Trying times for Mechanicum.

>>95860500
He could have been in disguise. You can paint him like the disguise paint is coming off.

>>95860931
surely they'll get compensation buffs, right?

>>95860911
It's honestly a bit of both, some units are insane and others are effectively worthless

>>95860931
Prime slots seem pretty useless for something like thallax too.

>>95860694
>But MELTA
Drop Pods full of melta are absolutely going to exist as an exception to the one unit a turn deepstrike. Even if in some bizarro land they don't, one a turn is going to lethal if you don't screen. Even then the pod can block your movement.

I'm not saying everyone will always do this, but it will be a legitimate tactic. I suspect vehicles are going to be in trouble this edition too.

>>95860831
>army of 50 guys has 6 centurions leading them
A centurion costs as much as an entire squad. Which they can kill in melee, yeah. But the Hero spammer guy runs the risk of having their dudes surrounded and shot to hell, don't they?

>>95860931
Surely they won't just nerf the over performers right?
Right?

>>95860967
but what about the Mechanicum attack on the Space Wolves?

>>95860992
Option 4.

>>95860694
>"Lascannons are too powerful, vehicles are too frail"
Then take Sunder off Lascannons, and change Explodes to be 1d3HP
>"Actually let's switch Pens and Glances; now Glances cause status effects while Pens only do damage!"
Feels like they somehow managed to turn one problem into a different problem altogether.

which sloptuber are we all listening to for leaks

>>95858725


>DA - choice of one from a short list of special rules
I don't mind this if you pick a rule to apply to the whole army; that's basically a RoW. Mixing and matching the wings on each unit is too easy to cheese and not as fluffy as the wing deploying as one.

>EC - win initiative or gain a bonus to it once per game
Yeah I feel like the EC will do a lot duelling this edition.

>IW - better Line(x) value
That, or a buff to leadership (maybe while on objectives) to show their willingness to die.

>WS - better jink
Yeah, sure. Maybe a benefit when embarking on transports, to incentivise continuous redeployment.

>UM - bonus if shooting something that a unit in the same detachment also shot
The whole system of detachments and compulsory HQ seems like it was written by an ultramarine. Hopefully they get something fluffy this edition.

>DG - immune to dangerous terrain. makes some terrain/features dangerous
DG's whole unstoppable advance shtick is basically just a high cool.

>SoH - bonus if shooting at close range or perhaps when assaulting
SoH are all about the charisma of the individual. I'd like something like a low Ld/Cl on troops, but a high Ld/Cl on HQ.

>WB - avoid degradation/penalties to leadership (possibly to cool?)
I wouldn't mind something like ToW's prayer and favour system for Bretonnia. Let WBs pray for the dark gods' favour before the battle and then have to meet certain requirements to keep it.

>Sal - can choose whether or not they fall back rather than rolling after losing combat
Isn't that an old ultramarine rule?

>RG - infiltrate
>AL - infiltrate but weirdly worded and probably better
These two shouldn't really overlap. AL aren't so much about deploying their marines in secret as they are about arranging the entire battle beforehand. Let them redeploy a few of the enemy's units at the start or something, to show tampered orders.

>>95861033
In 2.0, the AL were about lying, mainly about positioning. Their trait had them be further away than they appeared, and their warlords redeployed squads or granted alternative deployments. That was nice.
1.0 was meant to be about unpredictability with Mutable Tactics, but Infiltrate was simply the best one of the list lol

Would drop pod troops be in a particular power armor Mk? If not I’ll just wait for the inevitable nuMk4 for my drop spam WB

>>95860831
>where every army of 50 guys has 6 centurions leading them for some reason.
I think realistically and especially in small games you are not going to need more than 2 HQ even more if we get more varied liber detachments. A simple list with 1 non-consul centurion has 4 troop slots and you get 2 detachments, personally think your prime infantry slot should always be used for the logistic upgrade to get something like a Dreadnought/Land Raider/Kratos so you can use your 2 detachments in termies, predators/vindicator or HSS.

I wonder if legion specific consuls will get more slots, special detachment or modify the primary one. I can see something like a Castellan getting a rule like "you can take HSS as part of your troop slots"

>>95861183
Well, we know that Centurions unlocking 2 auxiliary detachments is a special rule they have as it doesn't exist in the core rules, so the fact that other units will also have something like that is pretty probable.

>>95861183
I reckon they might get their own prime traits, like logistical benefit but "you may take an additional armour detachment" and such.

Realistically, how often would a Preator be present in a battle? I imagine they're a tad too rare to be present in every army list.

Hey, which Warhammer Community post has all the marines in the new versions of power armour?

>>95861252
Both the art with MkIV and the MkII models painted as all the legions are on the new HH website, not a warcom article.
I don't have a link, but it shouldn't be too hard for you to find with some digging

>>95861245
Like 100+. The Emperor's Children had 110,000 marines commanded by 30 "millennials", but I think those are exalted Praetors instead of regular ones idk

I'm reading mechanicum rules and can someone tell me if this is correct:

Artificia cybernetica: make my robots react and shoot better

Artifica mechanica: heal my robots from a distance

Ephemera incursus: control and kill other enemy robots

Is that the basics for my Dominus?

>>95859832
Hobby Lobby drills aren't concentric, but it's done. A paintjob will help

>>95861270
Sorry anon, still can't find them. I found the one that has legion descriptions, but it's this combined pic's individual profiles what I'm looking for. I remember I even made a gif with them, unbelievable.
https://start-warhammer.com/thehorusheresy-discover/

>>95861323
God I don't care what anyone says I just love the nu mk2 helm. First nu mark that's just a straight up improvement.

>>95861331
On that pic it looks more like MkIII than the actual NuMkIII, as regular Iron armour has vertical slits and NO MIDDLE BAR across the scalp

>>95861270
I hate the new studio NL paint jobs

>>95861416
Then don’t watch the “beginner painting” shorts they uploaded for each legion on instagram. Genuinely what the hell is this

>>95861416
Don't you think it's fucking weird the FOC Vanguard silhouette grabs the bolter like that? It just IRKS me

>>95861420
That actually looks better. The shitty edge trimming is just that: shitty. That insta one also has lightning.

>>95861420
Ok admittedly hard to tell in this pic but they literally just smacked the thing with a sponge with paint a few times, nuln oil, cum leak on the leg and said fuck it. That and the intern shoved their ugly ass “lightning claws” in the camera for a 1/3 of it

>>95861421
It's almost definitely a photoshop job exactly how you've just done it. Honestly I think the icons are what irk me most about the new FOC. I would've much preferred if they just went for abstract symbols like the older charts so they're more readable at a glance. There are plenty of symbols they could use too; like if they gave tactical support units the double-headed tactical arrow or something.

>>95861420
This looks significantly better than >>95861416. It matches the NL's established dark blue and silver, and can at least be bothered to paint in the lightning.

>>95861432
You really don't need much more than that for basic marines. It may be low-effort, but it gets a good result and that marine at least looks like a NL rather than an UM

>>95861420
This is way better even without any depth

>>95861416
Eavy metal fucking sucks and I wish they would stop using it.
Everything doesn't have to look like shitty marvel slop.

>>95861420
They have them on YT apparently. Not gonna lie, I might use this for my dudes.
https://youtube.com/shorts/6WrOvtKa7ks

>>95861416
I don't get it its just a space wolf what am I not seeing?

>>95861167
No. Go ham anon.

Are the marines in this pic wearing MKII or III?

>>95861444
Yeah symbols could've been better than silhouettes, if used right. Checked & ironpilled btw
>There are plenty of symbols they could use too
I just realized the system is confusing because it's 14 different unit types:
1. Lord of War
2. High Command
3. Command
4. Troops
5. Light Transport
6. Heavy Transport
7. Support
8. Armoured Support
9. Heavy Support
10. Combat Pioneer
11. Shock Assault
12. First Strike
13. Army Vanguard
14. Combat Retinue
That's a mouthful! that's what she said

>>95861641
Boggles my mind that they think this over complicated mess of 7e style detachment of detachments is somehow better than a foc. And inevitably every faction and their dog will have their own aux detatchments, and prime perks

>>95861625
mk2, looks at the segmented shin plates

>>95861641
>Anon makes more comprehensive FOC than GW using GW's own assets
Sad!

>>95861641
I'm going to be honest with you anon your version is more unclear to me than the GW one. Maybe that's my marine bias though.

>thinking about finally getting into hh
>loving the mk2s in the new box
>hating the croissants
Normally I'd split the box but who'd want just the termies and the dread? People that already have a shit ton of tacticals? I should probably go for the old starter box before people start reselling it for insane prices, shouldn't I?

>>95861641
The five levels of Space Marines:
>High Command
>Command
>Troops
>Transport
>Corvus Corax

>>95861706
It's Corax all the way down
>>95861702
Noo

>>95860953
I believe you. All those who are crying over deepstrike are manufacturing a problem in my view. We will have to see what type of point efficiency we can get out of meltapods. Also we can be pretty sure that if you only get them on turn 2 that means Jetbikes also come into the picture.

I suggested Cerberus because they have a comparable cost to the Spartan they will attempt to stop turn one, another option might be the vague Veteran Assault Squads. Provided they can take meltabombs or even a couple of melta rifles. After turn 2 the ability to burst Land Raiders and Spartans def opens up. Their value will be in aggressively taking the initiative in center board control.

>>95861641
Wait
So I can’t ever take two apex detachments?
So I can have elites but no retinues, or retinues but no elites?

I guess you can squeeze two in by using two logistical benefits, and a single retinue by using the warlord, but how on earth is this less restrictive

>>95861763
Chances are Rites of War are still a thing, and they can modify the composition of your army.

>>95861763
How many veterans and retinues do you need?

>>95861763
It all depends on where different units will go. Imagine SA, for example, having to stuff all their command squads into Retinue or Command slots. Will Veletaris be Elites, Heavy Assault or Troops? How broken will different units be? Like, are Rapiers split into individual guns like Vehicle squadrons? Are Tercios still a thing or do they get split up and maybe become a Detachment rule?

>>95861802
Yes.

>>95858013
Dreads require a techmarine, just like mah rooge tradems

>>95861763
Retinues being their own thing that doesn't habmve to be attached to a Praetor is already pretty weird, we are not sure how it works yet. A ton of legion specific units can be taken as retinues as well now. PotL might still be a thing that lets you take vets as troops or something like that too

>>95859107
I've been running siege drills. Obvious advantages over a rhino, but they're 80pts already. If they have to go up to offset rhino increase it'll kill the strategy than the fact you can only deep strike 1 unit per turn.

>>95861625
Why would you think that's mkIII?
What are you, a GW designer?

>>95861872
>already pretty weird
How so? 2.0 just decided that a character has to be attached to their Retinue, rather than the two operating as separate units, like before.

What were the rules for prime slots?

>>95861883
There's people now who have never played anything before HH 2.0, to them stuff like retinues and characters being a single unit is normal.

>>95861895
You can't prove to me such creatures are "people".

>>95861901
Fucking phoneposting

>”h-he fights in ZM zero-g enviroment!”

>>95861901
this guy looks FUCKING evil. i hope he is not up to no good.

>>95860911
Both but mostly the latter.

>>95859845
>"objectives" and "scoring shit" are things. And you have zero line.
What good are objectives if they're all covered up?

>>95861937
Other than the mars rhino aren't all of these post heresy?

>>95861945
I just grabbed a pic off google man, people are having a hard time visualizing 32 rhinos on the table, arguing they're not going to add up to be enormous physical obstacles, so here's ten sitting next to each other.

Now imagine this photo three times, sitting on those objective circles.

>>95861945
Whirlwinds are Heresy, Damocles are Heresy and Hunter is older then Hyperios, which is Heresy.

>>95861895
This was the case from Betrayal on - for the praetor - although of course they could be deployed differently!

For master of the legion: "A model with this rule may also include a Command squad as a retinue as part of the same selection on the Force Organisation chart (see page 184)"

For the retinue: "A Legion Command Squad may only be chosen as a retinue for a Legion Praetor, and may not be taken as part of an army on their own. They take up a single Force Organisation chart selection with that Praetor, but do not have to be deployed with them and are treated as a separate unit during the game."

>>95861945
Nope. used during the heresy.

Why would I ever choose two regular terminator squads when I can now choose two terminator command squads for my obligatory centurions (and one for the obligatory praetor)? Make it make sense

>>95862013
Even the Razorback?

>Hatred is now completely useless for units with powerfists or thunderhammers
Lmaoooooo, time to sell your chaplains everybody, they're now fucking garbage

>>95862018
Points

>>95861945
The hunter and stalker will probably become staples of every legion all of the sudden in 3.0 now that those are squatted in 40k

>>95862039
Well worth the WS boost alone, not to mention the benefits of a herald

>>95862032
We don't know if what Chaplains give is still Hatred, they could still give a reroll.

>>95859635
>"This is where your Command Slots come in. For each one you fill, you may add one Auxiliary Detachment to your army – or two if you enlist a regular non-Consul Centurion"

So taking 3 basic-bitch centurions can unlock you 6 armored fist detachments, giving you 24 transport slots, in addition to the 4 transport slots already included by the basic primary crusade detachment... Plus the article says that the officer cadre apex detachment can be used to unlock even more aux detachments.... oh god.

Do we know yet if there's a rule stating transport must have squads assigned to them?

>>95862054
it won't be a reroll but probably just characteristics buffs especially to leadership.

>>95862032
Just let them fight against Thanatars and Daemon Lords.

>>95861981
Not all whirlwinds are HH era and the hyperios existed only as a tarantula weapon. If we go by your logic then razorbacks are HH era too.

>>95862137
>Not all whirlwinds are HH era
And what Whirlwind was HH era and when did the "40k" Whirlwind enter service?
>the hyperios existed only as a tarantula weapon
You shouldn't make definitive statements that are easy to prove false.

>>95862137
>>95862147
They're on doritonaughts too, aren't they?

I hope fulmentarus are usable in this edition instead of being either hyper OP or dogwater

>>95862018
have you tried not being a min-maxing 40k powergamer?

>>95862159
I hope AL get to keep the "steal a legions unit" thing

>>95862018
Because the game beong 6000+ points, you want 4 terminator squads now

>>95862168
It's the objectively cooler option, the detachment system also encourages multiple retinues

>>95862032
>Won't someone think of the poor thunder hammers
Powergaming fags go and stay go

>>95861432
Yes, it's a video for beginner's.

>>95862032
It's fucking stupid. Wounding on 2s is not hard in this system unlike 40k. While hitting better than 4s is. No one needs +1 to wound, even basic power mauls wound marines on 2s

>>95862018
>I can now choose two terminator command squads for my obligatory centurions
Wtf makes you think you can choose command squads as command options? They have their own entry and you don't have access to them unless you take that detachment with a praetor or use the logistics thing

>>95861641
You somehow made it even less intuitive

>>95861421
Cuz you couldn't really see it otherwise and the slot has both ranged and melee units

>>95862274
The 3 retinue slot apex detachment

>>95862032
>gw makes a strong buff, but it only works on weaker units
>munchkin waacs hate it
quelle surprise

>>95862294
You can only take that once, you need a praetor, and you are giving up on veterans and legion elite units
It's way easier to get terminators in

>>95862310
>GW lets my bare fisted tacticals do 0.8w instead of 0.6w at only the cost of a chaplain
Thanks GW!

>>95862320
>>95861641
Shock Assault detachment has two terminator slots and no prime. Combat Retinue Apex detachment has 3 (potential) terminator slots with a prime slot (which you can use to get a unit of elites)

>>95860804
Abelard finally getting some revenge for his own snipping then

>>95862032
Do we have the wording on breaching in 3.0? Is it unmodified or modifiable for the roll
I can see hatred being pretty incredible with axes if so

>>95862384
It's before modifiers.

Even primarchs get mogged by Saturnine.

>>95862325
>red butchers increase efficiency against power armored models by 25% but against terminator armored models by 7%
It’s fine

>>95862032
We're not GW fleshlights, we're printing superior models, we're not angry at this because the chaplain costed us 4 cents.

>>95862032
it's every round now, this is anti-tarpitting for the tarpit

>>95862265
it punishes oversupply yeah

if you already have hammernators you don't need a Chaplain, except for Stubborn but that means you won't use that HQ on a Chaplain, not that you're losing out

in effect anything that's Wounding 83% of the time is good enough, you don't need to boost it to 92%, you just want to, okuplok


>>95862320
Legion Terminators at WS4

>>95862395
god I hate them

>>95862395
god I love them

>>95862325
>Weapons that like this buff (against t4):
Basic CCW
Chainsword
Chainaxes
Chain Bayonet
Charnabal sabres
Charnabal glaive
Force sword (possibly)
Force axe (possibly)
Force staff (possibly)
Power sword
Power axe
Power lance
Lightning claws
Paragon blade
Machinator array
Lascutter
Corpasant stave
Bayonet

>Weapons that don't care about this buff (against t4):
Heavy chainsword
Chainfist
Charnabal tabar
Force maul
Power maul
Power fist
Thunder hammer
Servo arm

This, of course, changes drastically against anything that isn't a basic bitch marine
It's a fine buff, and +1 on the wound bracket is healthier game design than full rerolls to hit

With instant death gone, I wonder what ability sons of Horus will have, maybe reduction of melee damage by 1?

>>95862416
>Superior

>>95862416
I hate non metallic metal so much

>>95858844
Who needs challenges when you’re a leader.

>>95862152
Deredeo has four Boreas air defence
missiles or an Aiolos missile launcher.

>>95862432
It's not a matter of how good the buff is, it's a matter that you are changing reroll hit rolls for it
+1 to wound can be kinda useful depending on the weapon but it's never as good as reroll hits unless you were hitting on 2s before but I don't know if that's even a thing

>>95862397
Red butchers should at least get something out of Axes having breaching 5+ and only -1 Initiative

>>95862395
whats the problem, no one ever complains that tanks or dreadnoughts outsize primarchs so why not an exo-suit?

>>95862032
Hell yeah terranic greatswords up big

>>95862482
>but it's never as good as reroll hits
Because full rerolls of any kind is an inherently unhealthy game mechanic that leads to units being too consistent and GW has largely been moving away from that design space for years

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/bz3yebcn/rules-in-the-age-of-darkness-how-vehicles-work/
>AV is the same
Hahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha hahahahaha it's so fucking over for meltaguns holy shit

>>95862498
It's not inherently unhealthy when it's only in melee and locked behind an expensive HQ or limited to a very specific target
No one complained about rerolls until the retardation that was 8th edition 40k when every basic bitch character gave you some kind of reroll even at range

>>95862505
>Hit locations and structure damage on titans
We are so fucking back

>>95862505
>Rather than having various Armour Facings like tanks, they have several locations with their own Armour Values and Hull Points that can be independently targeted.
>Reducing the Hull Points of a location to zero doesn’t outright destroy a Titan, but rather cripples that location, causing further attacks to roll against a lower armour value and cause devastating internal damage.
>There’s actually a whole system for infantry assaults against Titans, in which valiant troops climb all over the enormous war machines and desperately probe for weaknesses while the crew fight them off! You can even dispatch jump-pack equipped Space Marines to attack the head in close combat.
Holy shit.

>>95862505
>have a meltagun
>vehicle is close
>fuck yeah i can one shot it
>hit
>lets go baby
>roll a glance
>sorry sweaty that 6 damage you have is wasted, roll on the d3 chart and deal no hullpoints

>>95862512
And why did everybody spam those characters that gave you so many rerolls, anon?

>>95862505
>Titans have separate damage location
That's cool
>it's so fucking over for meltaguns holy shit
Not really, they are still prime anti termy and anti dread weapons. What is going to kill them is the price of TSS...

>>95862519
Meltaguns can't glance, armorbane makes them pens

>>95862523
Because you could?
And you'd be stupid not to?
Unlike with a chaplain?
Most game mechanics are not inherently bad until GW implements them in the most retarded way possible

>>95862528
oh yeah i forgot lol

>>95862517
Seems like a cool system

oh man if this baby keeps AV15 on the front, its gonna be unstoppable
>yeah meltaguns cant hurt me

>>95862531
>Because you could and you'd be stupid not to?
Do you seriously think that a choice being so good that not taking it is gimping your list is good, healthy game design?
>Unlike with a chaplain?
Are you also trying to imply that a chaplain is not the single best thing to add to a melee squad in the entire game?

>>95862562
>Are you also trying to imply that a chaplain is not the single best thing to add to a melee squad in the entire game?
NTA, but in 2.0 at least, I'd propose the Solar Marshal.

>>95862512
rerolls are fine when it's extremely limited.
If Roboute Guilliman or Leman Russs give one squad a reroll, fine.
Being allowed to take 2-3 chaplains to give 2-3 squads rerolls, not in any way fine. Slows the game down and skews the balancing of every single roll-based rule like breaching/rending (fishing for 5-6s to proc special abilities was not priced into them at all)

There is literally no downside to the game to have removed the reroll abuse. Cut a tiny bit of points off chaplain cost if needed and the game is simply more balanced and faster to play at the same time.

>>95862505
Fucking Kino

Have we seen the specifics of multimeltas yet? I wonder if they're going to stratify the roles such that meltas counter dreads, multimeltas counter tanks, etc.

>>95862505
>Titans have different locations again

>>95862437
-1S or -1 to wound is still incredibly handy in melee even without ID

>>95862505
>>95862517
Fucking awesome!

>>95862517
absolute kino

>>95862517
I have a insane gut feeling that plastic titans might actually be in GW's consideration right now, because they've never given this much of a shit about titan rules in the past and I can't think of any good reason for why they'd make such interesting rules

Anyway, cool shit regardless

>>95862688
The 4th edition apocalypse rules also had different locations for titans iirc

>>95862609
>titan heads with BS stats
Imagine...

Also, no WS, so do titan close combat weapons no longer exist?

>>95862526
>they are still prime anti termy and anti dread weapons
Oh great, at least I can rest easy knowing the dedicated anti-vehicle weapon whose entire purpose is killing heavy armor now can’t actually kill that heavy armor at all
And it’s not even like if they hit double status the weapon then does it’s normal damage, it still only does a single HP

Im just hoping multi-meltas get armorbane or heavy(S) or something
At least I’m an iron hands player and end of the day just use special toys anyway

>>95861416
Looks like an ultramarine. Needs cool lightning effects and the iconic NL vampire bat mask

>>95862718
The WS stat might be on the weapon

>>95862742
Cool painting. Still a shit box with how it's packaged. I'll just get some printed for a fraction of the price.

Bois is it just me or is this edition looking KINO as fuck?
The only people whining are tournament shitters complaining they can't get their tight 3hr rounds in at tournaments, and they can get Raped.

>>95862742
tarantula sentry guns a cute, CUTE!

>>95862742
I'm not sure how I feel about the red weapon casing on Dark Angels. Feels cartoonish

>>95862688
zero chance they ever do a full titan in a box. It'd be too big and bulky for stores to put on normal shelves and stores wouldn't order them as it could take years to sell one at the $700-1000 price they'd be.

And that price is the kind almost no one impulse buys, it's easier to get someone to buy $200 battleforces 4 times than $800 in a single visit. The battleforces are FOMO + "big savings" but 800 would just be 'titan price'.

They wouldn't be able to slap them in battleforces to move them in bulk like they could with $150 models like the chaos primarchs to generate 200% sales by creating new interest and fomo.

Also titans are so low detail that a $60 print will demolish a $800 plastic titan's sales entirely. Titan already has no free box space so can't fit dozens of alt heads to compete by offering 'variety' so 3d prints have MORE variety than plastic titans.

>>95862742
what is it about these Raven Guard that makes them seem so sexy and well done?

>>95862742
The tracks are just tiny Russ tracks in reverse. Perfect for some converting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53-HdUwcX1c

Was the entire book leaked?

>>95862771
It's the matte black. RG done that xay ironically always pop.

>>95862718
I still have some of these.

>>95862742
from the legs and chests, are those glimpses to the numkiv's?

>>95862742
wait, the rapier kit comes with 3 sets of legs? 2 standing and 1 kneeling

this could be an interesting development...

>>95862771
Good weathering, I'm guessing some pigments and no highlights outside of metallics. The black is also very slightly shiny to fake it being a coat of black over metal. They are very pretty and make me want to get started on my LIgma recon company.

>>95862742
they should have put that kit in the starter box instead of the stupid immobile turret. They look 10x more cool and customizable and multi-role with so many gun options.

>>95862814
4 sets of legs, 3 standing, 1 kneeling. I suspect the crew is one sprue, two carriers a second sprue and then guns the 3rd sprue.

>only 10HP with 13AV
Rip knights. Dead to a handful of melta shots.

New titan rules look sick though.

>>95862756
>Exploding pyromancers
>Rules for boarding titans
>High strength causing Instant Death gone
>More immersive flyer rules

There's far more that I like about this upcoming edition than dislike.

>>95862848
And that's different to what a handful of meltaguns do to knights right now in what way exactly?

>>95862856
>>High strength causing Instant Death gone
Im iffy on that one. It removes the sense of equality that big S could bring before. But I do like the others. Titan boarding in particular sounds kino.

>>95862856
nobody will take pyromancers, nobody will take titans or flyers, everyone will sprint backwards with 30 lascannons moving and shooting, while non-scattering deepstrike gun spam squads appear 1" away from anything never scattering.
3rd how it will actually be played is simply a big downgraded.

>>95862858
Well, they currently do 1, maybe like 2, hull points. As opposed to 6. A dreadnought with the "Normal loadout" (twin melta cannon, maybe a meltagun in the hand) does not currently have the ability to oneshot a knight.

Yes, knights currently die to anti-tank weaponry. But the speed at which they do that has been massively changed.

Is it going to be WE summer? I just want Red Butchers back bros

>>95862848
>10 meltaguns does 6 Hull points from the front on average
>doesn't even Debilitate it

>>95862868
10 * 2/3 * 1/3 * 6 = 13.3333 hull points. This kills the knight.

>>95862609
The fuck is the difference between Primary and Exposed Armour?

>>95862866
A single meltagun shot can remove up to 4 hullpoints from a knight you fucking nogames. A dreadnought's meltacannon alone can one-tap a knight.

>>95862873
Have you tried reading the article?

>>95862873
Presumably exposed armor is, as the article describes, the armor value of the part after you strip it to 0 HP. So you can fire on the now more exposed part for easier access to the critical damage table (whatever that ends up being) rather than try and cripple other parts.

>>95862870
A knight has a 4++ invulnerable save from the front

>>95862873
Roughly the same as the difference between you and someone who bothers to read.

>>95862505
The Mechwarriors taught the Knights how to torso twist.

>>95862881
Now here's the real question, will anyone bother reading the rules for void shields and stop cheating by having a lascannon squad collapse them in one phase this time

>>95862867
If they get something like shred on power axes they'd be fucking scary

>>95862847
I wonder if the torsos will be seperate like the older kits

>>95862880
>"primary"
>results: 0
>"exposed"
>results: 0

>>95862892
>Warhammer nerds
>Start reading
>Stop cheating
Never gonna happen.

I like the new titan rules as much as the next guy. On paper it looks fun but, .....who realistically has the money..or even the filament, to make a titan? It's going to be a rare time these rules are actually used

>>95862864
> 30 moving lascannons versus cataphractii with a 4++
> 8.333 wounds a turn (so roughly 4 a turn)
> Also I have two rhinos full of despoilers flat out rushing them turn one to lock them all up
Lmao ok tournament bro take that incredibly shit sounding list. You already cracked the code!!!!!

>>95862902
You could have just admitted you didn't read the article anon.

>>95862910
Half of my flgs owns a titan. Half legit Half prints. There's a guy who has a legit axiom maniple. The certificates are framed in his house under his kids graduation pics.

>>95862902
>Reducing the Hull Points of a location to zero doesn’t outright destroy a Titan, but rather cripples that location, causing further attacks to roll against a lower armour value and cause devastating internal damage. Rolling on the Titan Critical Damage Table might result in the loss of an entire weapon, collapsing to the ground, or even mortally wounding the Princeps, while a particular stroke of fortune can detonate its reactor in spectacular fashion.

Anon its right below the image

>>95862902
Is this the power of brainlets?

>>95862792
WELL WAS IT
>>95862910
Sounds like a poor person problem bro

>>95862902
I genuinely can't imagine being unable to cope without Ctrl-F results.
Have you ever read a book? Start at the top and keep going.

>>95862910
There's a handful of people in the local HH group that owns at least one titan. Been playing against titans two. three times a year whenever we do a big multiplayer battle.

I would prefer if Melta was more reliable and lower damage. Way too swingy.

>>95862805
more like nu-LE2

>>95862910
Not many, but it should make that time someone comes in with a titan interesting and epic, which is really what you want.

Titans should feel like an occasion.

>>95862805
No it’s modified mk6/ imperial armor. We already have new mkiv minis like the ws consul that teased mk2. Unsurprisingly it looks like mk4 lol

Several of the rules reference “making a fall back move.” Do we know how that works or specifically how far the models move?

>>95862805
They’re a bit reminiscent of the imperial marine. I think they’re supposed to look like a prototype version of future power armors.

>>95862910
Me
Still in the process of painting everything though