Thread 95861616

How do you feel about fantasy human kingdoms with no flaws and full gender equality ruled by objectively superior nonhuman beings?

>>95861616 (OP)
You forgot to mention the scary part.
They're Chinese.

if it makes the wumao happy and doesn't hurt the feelings of the chinese people then i am happy

>>95861616 (OP)
>How do you feel about:

>fantasy human kingdoms
Good.
>with no flaws and full gender equality
Bad. I like a little grit. It's a video game, but Elden Ring's perpetual racism plot is easily my most favorite thing about the setting.
>ruled by objectively superior nonhuman beings?
Can't make a generalized response; too many variables, very dependent on execution/context. I've seen it done well, I've seen it done terribly.

What makes Cathay "Warhammer" as opposed to any other generic Three Kingdoms fantasy

>>95861616 (OP)
Can you show your campaign notes?

>>95861629
This, this is the most important thing. An implementation of fantasy China that even risked offending the Chinese would be terrible.

>>95861645
They sell the models to you at a signature Games Workshop 5000% markup.

>>95861645
Uhhh… it’s in the WARHAMMER setting, dummy?

>>95861650
I'm glad we're all in agreement on this. We must never, EVER hurt China's feelings with bad representation of their culture. That would be wrong and bad.

>>95861616 (OP)
>no flaws and full gender equality
The dragons not giving a shit and forcing even peasant girls into the meat grinder because of how easily replaceable they are isn't actual equality.

>>95861645
You mean dynasty warriors?
Not exactly a lot of 3K fantasy out here on the west, and they're over a thousand years removed from the 3K period.

>>95861645
Warhammer is (or was) about exaggerated stereotypes, darkness, and grotesquery.

There is no possible way to apply that tone to a Chinese-inspired faction without being astoundingly racist. Imagine Cathay being filled with fu manchu motherfuckers and HHHHWOOOOOAAAA ninjas

This isn't just limited to Cathay, look at the Votann faction in 40K. Zero Grimdark because the only way you can excuse edgy content is if its legacy and made in calmer decades. Modern content expects to be hyperanalysed by merciless controversy-hungry types so we end up having space-dwarves who are apparently the perfect civilisation with no bigotry

>>95861685
Why would China have Japanese assassins?
A perfect time to poke fun at the absolute cinema that is cultivation.

>>95861648
The objectively superior nonhuman beings are sexy asian doll women who can transform into dragons.

>>95861662
We might even need to coin a new word for just how wrong and bad it would be.

>>95861671
They literally don’t do this. Cathayan armies are elite and there is no better place to be a generic peasant in the entire WHFB setting than Grand Cathay.

>>95861685
This just isn’t true. Other wargames get away with being edgy all the time right in Current Year. It’s just GW being timid.

>>95861699
>Other wargames
name 3 hundred

>>95861699
Other wargames are extremely niche. Warhammer suffers under its own success.

I honestly can’t believe they wrote an entire article about how good boys they were for hiring a Chinese sensitivity team when Kislev is just over here being a grandiose amateurish parody of Poland and Russia. I guess they knew nobody who mattered would call them on it.

>>95861713
Hey, its just like Borat. If standards were equal, Sasha Cohen would be lynched for making the most racist film ever.

Isn’t it telling that Cathay triggers this level of meltdown while nobody blinks at the Empire’s witch burnings or Bretonnia’s caste system? It’s almost as if you expect every non-Western civilization to be a mess of dysfunction, so that you can feel comfortably superior. Cathay violates that unspoken rule. It dares to be effective, majestic, and spiritually aligned, and that’s why you hate it. GW’s crime wasn’t ‘sanitizing’ Cathay. It was refusing to reflect your own cynicism back at you.

>>95861787
I think it’s more that people like the parodical dysfunction of the setting’s European state analogues anon.

>>95861616 (OP)
>no flaws
>full gender equality
?
Did you mean
"no flaws EXCEPT full gender equality?"

>>95861787
>why does everyone complain Cathay is nice and not that the Empire and Bretonnia are shitholes
I’m not really seeing the correlation here. Everywhere in the Old World is kind of supposed to be an utter shithole you would never choose to live in.

>>95861787
Honestly man, I just hate Chinese people.

>>95861787
>hmm curious that you're upset Cathay is depicted as a utopia whilst the Empire and Bretonnia are dystopias hmm
>Perhaps it's because you are le racist hmm?
I think you're trolling, based upon how illogical your argument is

>>95861807
>>95861814
>>95861828
That’s the funny part, really. The second a non-European faction isn’t written as a collapsing mess of religious hypocrisy, feudal ignorance, or pestilence-worship, everyone panics and insists it must be a joke too. Maybe it just highlights how conditioned you are to equate “depth” with dysfunction, as if rot is the only way to make a setting feel mature. Cathay breaks that mold and for some reason, that makes people irrationally angry. Curious, isn’t it?

>>95861852
No, not really. I enjoy the stupid grimdark history of Warhammer, Cathay has no stupid grimdark history and therefore disappoints me.

>>95861869
Ah, so it’s not about lore quality, depth, or world-building consistency, you just want everything to be dripping in blood, disease, and ironic mustache-twirling. No wonder the Old World is collapsing. What you call “grimdark,” others might call terminal adolescence. A setting where nothing works, nobody learns, and every faction is just a race to see who can fail the loudest. Cathay isn’t here to entertain your masochism or amuse you with its misery. It’s here to endure. And maybe that’s what really irritates you... that amidst the rotting circus of the Old World, GW dared to include a civilization that didn’t grow out of rot, but out of order. You don’t hate Cathay because it’s bad. You hate it because it doesn’t reflect your own civilization's decline back at you.

>>95861695
>Cathayan armies are elite
>peasant levy

>>95861885
You aren't working hard enough to earn that 50 cents.

>>95861885
>You hate it because it doesn’t reflect your own civilization's decline back at you.
Anon, I don’t know if you realize this, but the entire planet died in Warhammer.

>>95861900
Fascinating that whenever something doesn’t mirror the West’s collapse into self-inflicted chaos, you assume it must be propaganda. Maybe Cathay feels alien to you because it still believes in hierarchy, tradition, and the divine mandate, things your decaying Empire burned for firewood centuries ago. But yes, blame it on 50 cents. It’s easier than admitting the Old World is a parody of your own.

>>95861911
>things your decaying Empire burned for firewood centuries ago
Uhh, one century ago China was still getting gangraped by Europe and Japan before going through massive social upheaval that led to the total death of hierarchy, tradition, and the Mandate of Heaven.

>>95861885
Oh, you’re feeding this into ChatGPT, I see.

>>95861911
Holy wumao

>>95861616 (OP)
explain to me how it has no flaws. Be descriptive and elaborate. But i know you wont

bitch

>>95861885
Civilizational decline is literally the entire premise of Warhammer. It's a dying world barreling towards the literal end of times, which the factions are meant to represent.

>>95861934
>Describe the flaws that they dont have

>>95861935
That’s the whole problem. You are too used to living inside collapse, so now you call it "depth" like it is something good. When you see something like Cathay, with order and future, your instinct is to attack. You are not mad at the writing. You are mad because it doesn't match your sickness. You made a whole setting around failure and death, and now you are angry because something refuses to decay like the rest. You're not looking for fantasy you're looking for a mirror.

Spoiler, but: They all got fucked anyways.

>>95861963
The entire planet exploding and killing everyone seems like a pretty hefty impediment to Cathay’s future and endurance.

>>95861616 (OP)
You think there was ever any pushback at the start of the forming of Cathay?
>"UHHH WOMEN CAN'T BE SOLDIERS"
Whilst the literal cosmic dragon doesn't give the slightest fuck.

>>95861976
No

>>95861616 (OP)
The simple issue is that the Warhammer Fantasy setting is basically history + fantasy/mythology tropes 'turned up to 11'.
For example, Bretonnia is, vaguely, historically accurate medieval France if it was 'turned up to 11'
However, Cathay is historically accurate medieval China if it was 'turned down to 5'.
Cathay, the Warhammer version of China, is less hardcore than actual China.
It's boring.

>>95861934
>Provide physical evidence of something you claim doesn't exist, then I'll believe it

>>95861976
Realistically, the dragon intervened so early in their social development they probably had a barely stratified society so wouldn't have had as clearly defined gender roles.

>>95861963
>something refuses to decay
Nigger Cathay still gets fucked in the end times. Literally offscreened by the greenskins to write them out of the story until the climax. So how does that happen when Cathay doesn't decay? Are they just that weak that even at their full strength they didn't hold a candle to the orks?
The simple explanation is that it just doesn't work, you're just trying to overcomplicate things to suit your armchair philosophy so you can feel somehow superior by refusing to acknowledge the simple conclusion in front of you.

>>95861934
Canon hot human on dragoness sex, and their women are actually attractive.
Anime waifus out of GFL, Nikke, and Hoyo alone raise them above the rest of the factions.

>>95861964
actually it was grimgor who wiped the CCP off the map in the end times

>>95861787
Ignoring the trolling, the reason why the western men have to have rigid societies and shit like witch burning is because there is a literal hell portal spewing demons into the world, the woods are full of maneating furries, rampaging corrupted men and murder worshipping elves prowl the seas and coasts, seemingly limitless hordes of orcs infest the mountains and borderlands, and the dark places of the land are filled with millions strong skittering hordes of hyper intelligent ratmen armed with nukes and machine guns. And that's just the organized threats. In such a world any society which wasn't highly stratified and insular and paranoid would get swept away.

Cathay exists because of plot armor, no different than the Tau in 40k.

>>95861995
>>95861997
Did the Brit-I mean Greenskins also get everyone in Cathay addicted to opium to simplify things?

>>95862021
Unfortunately or fortunately details of how orcs destroyed Cathay weren't given, just that Grimgor went in their direction and now there is no Cathay or Chaos Dwarves.
They got NPC faction of 0 importance sendoff with 1 or 2 lines of text that it happened. At least Cathay wasn't deleted by skaven ex machina like most minor factions.

> look at the Votann faction in 40K. Zero Grimdark
if you bothered reading the bare bones Votann lore in the codex you'd know this isn't true

>>95861616 (OP)
>full gender equality
>no flaws
You contradict yourself.

>>95861616 (OP)
You arent mad that it exists. You are only mad that it isnt the Empire.

>>95861616 (OP)
Such as?

Do you guys figure this line will fail as badly as squats or even worse?

>>95862150
No it’ll sell amazingly because libs are pogging their gourds over it and don’t actually care about WHFB aesthetics.

>>95862150
No the models are better for one, the main issue people seem to have with Cathay is just the lore feeling overly sanitised to appeal to CCP censors and the general Chinese market and the bright colour palate compared to the other Human factions in Warhammer.

>>95861671
Peasants aren't easily replaceable if you start drafting the women. You retards make the exact same argument about 40k and female guardsmen.

>>95862180
The soijak audience doesn't buy, you know that. Especially not at GW prices.

>>95862194
no ones cares

>>95861616 (OP)
Pretty based. Gonna buy every kit at least once.

>>95861787
>>95862020
Either way, Cathay is highly stratified, nepotistic and isolationist. Just because they've managed to keep a lot of their enemies outside their literal walls and keep their streets clean doesn't make them somehow perfect. In that regards, they are kind of like more secure Karaks or safer regions of Ulthan - separated by barriers, isolationist and having most of their issues come from the internal politics and their culture.

Warhammer is not just your personal therapy session. Not every faction has to be metaphor for your own fall. Cathay challenges that. It shows something ancient, stable, capable and suddenly you cry ‘propaganda.’ Maybe that’s not because it’s wrong, but because it doesn’t share your sickness. Your idea of realism is just your own pain, dressed as lore.

>>95862391
>ancient, stable, capable
Wuzzat you git!?

>>95862215
I do like the dragon.

>>95861616 (OP)
>the executive is not picked by magic does that are the incarnation of the General Will
>no sentient animal companions in general

ya all fucking serious?

Why didn’t the immortal all-powerful dragon emperor just conquer the entire old world and destroy all evils?

>>95862611
Because he's just a powerful dragon running a personal cult and banging his wife, in a setting where dragons are used as mounts by other faction's leaders.

>>95862618
He explicitly has godlike power on par with the old ones and is the oldest living dragon.

>>95862674
so we can assume that he is smart enough to recognize that conquering the entire world isnt in his interest and destroying all evil isnt something he can pull off

>>95862674
So sad Grimgor and his Boyz ran a train with his wife, then

>>95861691
>The objectively superior nonhuman beings are sexy asian doll women who can transform into dragons.
Hell this is /tg/, turning into a sexy woman might reduce their overall appeal!

>>95861616 (OP)
>How do you feel by me making this thread fourth time in the last month?
Bored.
Tired.

>>95862193
I'll be back to laugh at you when it fails horribly.

>>95863277
>turning into a sexy woman might reduce their overall appeal!
You bet it fucking does.
100% dragon or death.

>>95863483
Would Dragon Boobs be a bridge too far?

>>95862194
When you're overpopulated women are replaceable.

>>95862150
>unasked-for product line for a niche product line that doesn't chart
>models look bland, like something from Warcraft, don't seem to fit Warhammer
>Early bad press with the nerd rage set when they openly brag about cucking to Chicom advisors
Guessing they'll do pretty bad. Maybe a bit better than the Squats because those are REALLY dog shit design-wise and these at least might be good generic Chinese models for someone with money who doesn't mind the GW rpemium.