Myth of Balance edition

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>Thread Question
How do you feel about template stacking in your games?

>>95865670
DA: inquisitor(official rules on how TF works) and the MtR books(both core and players guide). You'll need sorcerer revised to gain the rules on how mana works. The original Hunters Hunted has the powers for TF above 5.

>>95865963 (OP)
The face of the technocracy

>>95865963 (OP)
>How do you feel about template stacking in your games?

I play more nWoD than oWoD, but I think a little bit of template stacking is fine. Especially when the base template remains mortal. It works once in a blue moon to have a normie using every supernatural advantage they can get to put them in the supernatural weight class, and damn the consequences.

Would WoD combat be improved if you just made the dice pool system an actual dice pool system? For example, your largest dice pool is the most dice you can spend per turn. Celerity doesn’t give you extra actions, just extra dice for dexterity related things. It means someone with 15 dice to do something is as good as 3 people with 5 dice to do something. But that dramatically lowers the power level of a guy with 20 dice, which goes a long way imo in explaining how antediluvians could actually be killed as per the lore stating 5 guys ganged up on them and shanked them.

>>95865963 (OP)
>>95865985
I think template stacking is the only way to get a decent Mage character for crossovers in classic WoD. Awakened mages are way to volatile(either overpowered or underpowered with not in between) to be anything other than NPCs in a Crossover game.
The numina templates each also have something the others are missing.
>Sorcerer have the only way for inquisitors to break the ceiling of True Faith 4
>Sorcerers can generate store additional magic energy and Inquisitors have the only way to gain Virtues above 5, meaning they can become Shih/Hunter-X that store More than 10 Chi
>Shih and Psychics have ways of rapidly regenerating Willpower, which make them amazing Sorcerers.
They're all like puzzle piece that create one larger picture.

>>95865963 (OP)
>How do you feel about template stacking in your games?
It is fine as a plot hook, but it doesn't work well as a PC in the vast majority of games, with a couple exceptions like Sorcerer.

>>95865167
>Why would any Changeling actually care about these factions?
Aside from the mutual defense element where you're stronger as a collective than on your own, that the Courts grant unique Contracts that the Regalia and Goblin contracts can't duplicate, and the rotation of power is a repellent effect against the Gentry?

>>95866285
Plus there's the fact that Fae politics are core to the interactions between Changelings, and a Freehold and its Courts provide a stage for that to be played upon.

>>95866230
It's kind of weird that you can run a mage game without any awakened and almost nothing would be lost. The actual Mages in MtA are the weakest link in the setting.

>>95865963 (OP)
>TQ
Template stacking is moral and good.

>>95866458
Ironically it's all because they're basically playing make believe. I'm actually curious as to the how the whole consensus reality thing came about. Obviously the devs were working backwards from the idea of a masquerade, but still.
>>95866164
Probably not. I was a huge fan of earthdawn and shadowrun and I promise you, there'd always be a way to fuck things up, you're just looking for degrees of fucked. I think you're going to quickly run into Exalted 3e problems in your case where extra actions are king and any scenario that isn't a 1 on 1 fight just falls apart. You'd still want extra actions built in, but probably some sort of autosuccess too.

Dark ages does run better than modern but not by much

>>95867050
>extra actions are king
What like they are in vanilla just locked behind Celerity?

The way I imagine it, you have 4 dex and 3 athletics and 4 melee. You can swing with 8 dice or dodge with 7, but any dice you spend to do either is dice you can't use on the other, and naturally you can't spend ability dice without attribute dice to pair with them. Run out of dice, can't dodge. It's pretty much just the intent of Dark Ages without floating DCs and stacking dice penalties.

>>95867206
>What like they are in vanilla just locked behind Celerity?
Depends on the version, most allow people to do multiple attacks but the penalties are so harsh there is no real point to do so.

Is it taboo to fuck another kindred with the same sire as you?
Asking for a friend.

>Guy has Dex+Firearms of 6 and tries to shot someone 3 times
>Split the dicepool into 3 sets of 2 dice.
>Resolve all attacks at Guy's iniciative.
Is this what is supossed to happen in V20?

>>95867321
>Is it taboo to fuck another kindred with the same sire as you?
No even if they are actual siblings

>>95867321
no, they can't get pregnant

>>95867050
>I'm actually curious as to the how the whole consensus reality thing came about.
It's a thing in both variants of gnostic and hindu believes. "Reality is a lie meant to hold you back from your divine potential" is core to both religions.
WW also cut it's teeth with the game Ars Magica, which was all about gnostic magic.

>>95867321
Actually this brings up a thought: What taboos/non-taboos would each splat have that'd cause the most cultural whiplash to the average mortal?
Werewolves for example treat someone catching feeling for a pact member with complete social ostracization and in extreme cases give them a death sentence, but would have few(or if silverfang zero) issues with you fucking your kinfolk sister.

>>95867321
Sauce?

>>95867421
Garou literally are supposed to fuck normal wolves. To the point that not doing that often enough is why almost none of the tribes take the Glass Walkers seriously

>>95867422
[Oouso] Sex with My Youngest Sister

>>95867421
The sheer amount of gay in vampire and changeling would probably shock most people.

>>95867421
I was thinking about etiquette the other day. A huge part of it is all about formal dining. I wonder what (if anything) would take its place among kindred.

>>95867447
Please tell me this is the pic where they all have delicious looking cocks.

>>95867469
No idea, I got it here.

>>95867384
I'm aware of the real world stuff, but not that Hagen worked on Ars Magica. I guess the Wiecks were responsible for the transformation.

Bigfoot is real and he's a member of the hermetic order

>>95867421
Just within your default, on humanity, Camarilla set-up you have a lot of things that aren't normal.
>Feeding on people without their knowledge or consent is an act somewhere between assault and rape.
>Slavery is very normal. Kine in the know are expected to be enslaved or killed. Even enslaving other vampires is acceptable under the right circumstances.
>In fact sometimes at fancy gatherings there'll be slaves there for you to drink if you want. Some of them are into it.
>You can kill any mortal you want as long as they aren't already claimed by someone else, and so long as you do not get caught. Other vampires, even the shittiest of the shitty? Off limits unless they're not under the Prince's protection (Read Sabbat and depending on the Prince, Anarchs/Indies) or a blood hunt has been called.
>If a blood hunt is called you are expected to hunt that person down like a dog.
this last one is very city and clan culture dependent
>Having a committed, monogamous relationship with a mortal is far weirder than being publicly fetishistic. Also potentially illegal.

I was tooling about in google maps for something else and damn, it's a shame Florida cities aren't more populous. They're actually fantastic for vampires in the bigger areas. Not as great as dense urban jungle with lots of dark alleys, but pretty close. It's actually a lot like WoD Chicago. You've got a lot of open space, it's very low rise, a lot of houses in strange places, lots of space to hide. Lots of businesses. Even though a car is mostly required, you have plenty of people on foot. In the WoD you'd have a shitload of junkies and the homeless running about, but I guess in the 90s modern day junkies were though of as the hilariously overblown problems of the future and putting them in the books was a nice joke. It's not rural enough for werewolves, there's a fair bit of industry, lots of isolated areas near very busy ones and a lot of corruption.

>>95867531
He's a Gurahl. Canonically, most bigfoot sightings are assorted werebears wandering the wilderness in part man form.

>>95867531
LISTEN TO ME ANON, BIGFOOT IS REAL AND HE TRIED TO SUCK MY DICK

>>95867434
The weird bullshit that poisons the entire game to the point where many people ignore or retcon it.

>>95867620
IT WAS A FEMALE BIGFOOT, I'M NOT GAY

>>95867620
Bigfoot is real and he DID give me sloppy behind a Home Depot. But he was just a changeling farstrider :/

>>95867434
They're also supposed to be able to stuff their humanity into a little corner when living as wolves. That's why they have -3 to Manipulation when in Lupus. Their capability to do this is somewhat dependent on their Primal-Urge rating.

Generally, however, there are so few wolves left that the only Garou who are going to be looking into this were born as wolves. It's theoretically about as weird to them that they're hypothetically expected to be with humans, and far more likely to happen than the other way around, again, given numbers.

>>95867421
Most Garou actually inherit stronger taboos from being raised human in human cultures than this is suggesting, and would actually be apalled The Coffin of Garou and Kinkin action (a mean, aside from the cannibalism and communing with questionable at best metaphysical powers, that's really serious too).

>>95867701
>be me
>david paulides
>spend life hunting bigfoot
>write books
>fund shows that make ancient aliens look sane
>spend weeks in the woods, looking for bigfoot
>one night walk out of home depot
>rock hits at my feet
>source is a single furry hand beckoning from behind the dumpsters
>it's bigfoot
>sprint after it screaming
>bigfoot holds me down and forcibly fellates me, tears off pants
>see camera on wall
>realise I've got it all, I finally have proof
>once bigfoot finishes, run inside without even putting my pants back on and hold shop manager at gunpoint until he shoes me cctv footage
>footage shows bigfoot
>footage shows me
>footage shows bigfoot sucking my cock
>footage shows bigfoot.. turning into a wolf, winking at the camera and running away
>it's just another fucking werewolf
>I didn't find bigfoot, I just found another werewolf
>call number, pentex writes me a cheque
>another day in the life of david paulides

>>95867531
He definitely belongs with other smelly stupid apes

So, uh, is there anything stopping a VAMPIRE from learning Sorcery paths rather than having to go play with Thaumaturgy?

>>95867853
Yeah, the Tremere. You think they're only murdering the ones learning Thaum? They got a monopoly and plan to keep it.

>>95867853
Time and effort. Tremere will support each other, kind of, in researching Blood Sorcery. If you want to study human magic, you're on your own and you'll fall behind in the status game that runs vampire society.

>>95867801
How do you know Bigfoot isn't also werewolf?

>>95866013
Ironically enough, chuds are more tradition like.

>>95867531
He'd be a Druid and you know it

>>95865985
>>95866230
Thanks, I'll look into them. The only books I'm missing are the MtR ones, but that should be easy enough to sort through.

Shitbeard if he was tamed instead of Kevin.

>>95867531
alfa busa?

>>95868545
if he is then he should make them work faster it's been 2 months since last upload

>>95867888
Chuds are from Order of Hermes

>>95867757
>and would actually be apalled The Coffin of Garou and Kinkin action
The silver fangs and the entire concept of Pure Breed are massive gaping holes in that argument.
Like it or not, incest is as baked into the setting as bestiality, but like normal people we choose to ignore it.

>>95867469
>>>/trash/ is that way.

>>95867853
Takes too much time, Tremere developed Thaumaturgy because vitae is basically just Tass developed in the a kindred's body. Vampires are Tass generators. Skipping the lengthy rtual and spell prep of kine sorcery. The same way Mana/Quintessence manipulation sorcerers can speed up their casting...

Now, that leaves me to wonder if a Quintessence manipulating vampire Vitae-bend?

>>95867592
Wouldn't those sightings create an Umbrood/Chimerical Big-foot spirits based on people's belief in bigfoot sightings?

>>95865963 (OP)
Sometimes anons.. sometimes i feel like i've seen Nosferatu irl.

>>95869807
Those are just mirrors, anon, you can throw a sheet over them if needs be.

>>95869809

>>95869572
I thinm he's talking about newcomers to garou society, like woofs born out of lost kinfolk and the more urban woofs like the Glass Walkers and Bone Gnawers (neither of which can take Pure Breed in W20)

>>95867801
Wow, man. One of our kin gives you a free blowjob and that's how you repay him?

>>95869807
Have you never seen a crack head? People on the downswing of meth often look pretty strange. People who have 'miss mitts' - swollen hands, wrists, feet from all the chemicals start to look like they're made of play dough around the joints. more vtr wrong than vtm wrong, but wrong.
>>95867592
On this note, any 'unexpected' settings that'd work well for vampires? Large or small scale, and you can't pick mississipi.

>>95869807
>anon is developing auspex

Reading Wyrmtide for W5 reminded me, that my favourite part of WtA was the freakish enemies and mockery breeds.

>>95869910
Is it already out?

>>95869956
NTA, but it's already in newvola.

>>95869891
>local nos teams up with the Setites to sell meth
>can now freely walk the night

Hold on!
>Gaian Elementals: Fire, Water, Air, Earth
>Wyrm Elementals: Balefire, Toxins, Smog, Sludge
>Weaver Elementals: Lightning, Plastic, Glass, Metal
Where are the Wyld Elementals?

>demon the fallen character creation rules
So you’re just a guy and you can get 4 innate armor and maybe some stamina if you want when you go sicko mode but basically yeah you are really squishy even as a demon against your average rifle
>demon the fallen crafting rules
>so you can make a rifle shoot at difficulty 3 and do up to 16 damage lol
>this isn’t even a relic just let a malefactor take a swing at pappy’s rifle for a bit and you have a godkiller
>relics are somehow even more busted than this

I’m terrified to run combat in this system it’s patently absurd what you can do with the crafting rules and even in apocalyptic form demons are extremely squishy.

>>95867634
Weird bullshit of various kind is what makes oWoD good

>>95870051
Plant, beast, flux and bugs.
Of course, the Wyld doesn't have elementals. It is the thing that makes up the whole, but it isn't a definable thing since it's always changing.

>>95870053
this is why you learn their true name first and then you attack them

Mark my words. Hunter the Parenting is going to become the Lost of Internet series. It's gonna collapse onto itself in a pile unresolved plot threads and by the end we're going to get an unsatisfying deus ex machina ending with maybe 10% of the things that happen being resolved/explained.

>>95870293
I mean that’s just so they stay dead. But an NPC getting a new host is fine, a PC having to change characters is a lot different and incredibly likely even just against a police shootout, let alone when Demons with relics are involved.

Which books do I read if I want get a good feel for the setting of Lost. Beyond just the core books of course. And of the two cores, is there a remarkable difference in the setting as presented? I'm halfway through 1e now.

>>95870605
>I'm halfway through 1e now.
I suggest you read Rites of Spring next.

>>95870143
I guess that's on the list of "Things the writers were too lazy to add to Werewolf."

Like Urge Seeds for the Weaver.

>>95867888
This, technocracy are soiboys who trust The Science.

>>95866164
>antediluvians could actually be killed as per the lore stating 5 guys ganged up on them and shanked them.
Saulot let himself be killed and Cappadocius was a retard, it took a lot more to take Ravnos down.

>>95869830
Then is doesn't really make sense as an answer to anons question about how supernatural splats react to things differently or an objection to the other anon's answer. He's correct, Woofs as a society are blase about "close" family.

>>95870053
Is it really so surprising that the angels of creation are better at creating thing than breaking them?

>>95870706
>it took a lot more to take Ravnos down.
And it only worked because ravvy was in a hungry frenzy from a botched waking and didn't have access to his best tricks. Otherwise he'd have quietly slinked into the shadows and used chimistry 9 to retroactively delete anything he didn't like from reality.

>>95870662
>Like Urge Seeds for the Weaver.
*And the Triatic Wyld.
This dip into some Metaphysic Trinity stuff, how Three Spheres in one corner of the Trinity can be further subdivided into their own Metaphysic Trinity and that you can map the Spheres of a particular piece the Trinity to the Triatic Incarna of that particular Celestine
>Weaver/Stasis
>Dynamic/Wyld: Forces/Science
>Static/Weaver: Matter/Machine
>Entropic/Wyrm: Life/Patriarch
>Wyrm/Entropy
>Dynamic/Wyld: Spirit/Beast-of-War
>Static/Weaver: Prime/Eater-of-Souls
>Entropic/Wyrm: Entropy/Defiler Wyrm

Meaning that a Triatic Wyld would have one Dynamic Incarna for Mind, one Static Incarna for Correspondence and one Entropic Incarna for Time

>>95869891
Idk anon, most crackheads i see are either old hags who dress like hookers, some guy playing in the trash all grumpy, or some guy with pimples all over his face (actually i think thats heroin) but meh, can barely tell junkies apart.

>>95870662
>>95870143
>>95870051
>>95870762
The balance is supposed to be broken, shit's fucked. Why do you want all of the Triat to be reflections of each other with the only difference being their themes? The Wyrm has a whole host of powerful incarnae serving it because they each represent a fragment of his fractured psyche, the Weaver has a more rigid hierarchy of lesser spirits with a limited number of higher spirits to serve as control nodes on the great web that it sits in the middle of, and the Wyld just putters around doing its own thing without any hierarchy serving it at all, just a chaotic mess of spirits that it leaves in its wake. The Triatic Wyrm is a thing because it wants to supplant the Triat with its own twisted interpretation of it in its maddened and tortured state of existence, this is not true for either of the other spirit-gods and that's why they aren't split into Triatic versions of themselves. Splitting them into Triatic versions is just a step towards turning each of them into clones of the Wyrm with a cyberpunk coat of paint and an anarcho-primitivism coat of paint.

Vampire women don't have acidic vaginas like living ones do, right? So if you cum in one it just gunks up inside them until it rots?

>>95871089
>So if you cum in one it just gunks up inside them until it rots?
Most kindred do bathe.
As for the br*jah and nosferats- yeah.

>>95871132
nos bathe, gangrel don't

>>95871157
Sewer water doesn't count.

>>95869572
Pure Breed is as accurate a name for the Background as Past Lives was for Ancestors. What it actually represents is how long your family's been involved with the tribe you're a part of, as you will lose it if you go to another tribe. What's more, if you had actually read Silver Fangs Revised, you would know that "too much incest" is actually a cover story that the Fangs' inner echelons let other tribes believe because the actual truth of "we tried to go behind Luna's back to rule for more than seven years at a time and she cursed us" is actually way worse for their optics.

Not really sure you can also call Garou in Lupus being with wolves as the same thing as bestiality, which really implies that earlier edition Lunar attempts to make beastfolk are going on instead of, you know, a wolf being with a wolf.

>Captcha
>AGRR8

Save hawking cereal for the Khan, captcha.

>>95871173
None of your Wyrm leeches shower, we can smell it from a long distance when you show up in our territory

>>95871209
You dogs just happen to interact with a very particular kind of kindred in your territory. One that's allergic to hygiene.

>>95871221
You all look (well, some are much uglier than others) and smell the same for me

>>95871259
Hey, cool it with the antivampirism.

>>95871259
Pictured: how dogboy sees kindred.

>>95870379
>It's gonna collapse onto itself in a pile unresolved plot threads and by the end we're going to get an unsatisfying deus ex machina ending with maybe 10% of the things that happen being resolved/explained.

I hope you're wrong but I am noticing a worrying trend of exponentially multiplying plotlines and characters. I lost interest in TTS when it stopped being a comedy show and turned into straight up fanfic, did it have a similar problem towards the end?

>>95871089
If we're talking VTM, it'd be expelled when the vampire next sleeps as the blood of caine reverts their body to the moment of embrace like it does every night.

>>95871205
>What it actually represents is how long your family's been involved with the tribe you're a part of
That's not how that works at all. Pure Breed is specifically how closely related you are to the greatest heroes of the tribe. A garou with PB5 breeding with another member of the same tribe without a PB score will have kids of PB 2.
The only way to have PB5 is if your direct parent is a legend that made it into the silver record Or every generation since the last legend has been exclusively PB5 kin and garou. Good luck justifying that without going full hapsburg with a gene pool in the single digits.

So zhyzhak is the strongest garou, but is she the strongest fera? Are there members of other changing breeds who could potentially beat her?

>>95871778
>So zhyzhak is the strongest garou
Only physically(as in her actual strength score). She's not actually that impressive for a legendary garou
> but is she the strongest fera?
Absolutely not. She'd get fucking squished by a powerful mokole or gurahl.

>>95871720
Yes, it is. It is explicitly noted that if you switch tribes or join a tribe that isn't the one that your family with an established PB rating with, you get PB0. PB does not transfer across tribes for Garou. It is something different for kinfolk and as such, both backgrounds should have had their names changed to something different.

>>95871822
The fuck you are on? Zhyzhak is literally Archaon equivalent of Black Spiral Dancers. She can benchpress Garou packs like a discount Methuselah. Her human form is enough to slaughter most Garou.

>>95865963 (OP)
>How do you feel about template stacking in your games?
As the natural progression of a character over a chronicle, yeah, but if someone rolls up for session 1 with a stupidly overpowered munchkin combo with rules spread over 3 sourcebooks I'd ask him to redo his character.

>when you recognize structural instability and your opening move in combat is to shift a building off its foundation, causing it to collapse on everyone inside

>>95865963 (OP)
>Johnny Wander
Based. I wish they'd turn Walking Gods into a proper comic.

>>95870706
Also Malkav, he was literally killed by a mob of mortals with bronze knives, though he could have just Knowledgemaxxed and still had chargen tier physical traits.

>>95872651
>Also Malkav, he was literally killed by a mob of mortals with bronze knives
How do you know that isn't what he wanted you to think?

>>95869897
If I were one of the clans with obfuscate I would hate vampires with auspex

>>95872798
I honestly don't know how you survive as a vampire of any worth without learning auspex at any cost. There are so many powers that exploit you being unaware something is happening that you will just instantly die, get spied on, or be manipulated without a chance to retaliate.

>>95872149
We have her stats in Apocalypse. They're not insurmountable by a long shot. Also, Golgol Fangs First can go head to head with her with his War Harness, so she isn't the mightiest bondage enthusiast by far.

>>95871720
>>95872125
Anons, purebreed is a mix of Both spiritual and genetic requirements. You need to be directly related to the hero of a tribe And in the right tribe. Unfortunately that only makes incest-anon more correct, because tribes poach each other's cubs all the time and ruin a lot of purebreed in the process. This means their single-digit genepool is even smaller than it would be.

Kill vampires. Behead vampires. Roundhouse kick a vampire into the concrete. Slam dunk a vampire's ghoul into the trashcan. Crucify filthy blanks. Defecate in a vampire's haven. Launch vampires into the sun. Stir fry vampires in a wok. Toss vampires into active volcanoes. Urinate into a vampire's gas tank. Judo throw vampires into a wood chipper. Twist vampires' heads off. Report vampires to the IRS. Karate chop vampires in half. Curb stomp pregnant day-walkers. Trap vampires in quicksand. Crush vampires in the trash compactor. Liquefy vampires in a vat of acid. Eat vampires. Dissect vampires. Exterminate vampires in the gas chamber. Stomp vampire skulls with steel toed boots. Cremate vampires in the oven. Lobotomize vampires. Mandatory castration for vampires. Grind vampire ghouls in the garbage disposal. Drown vampires in fried chicken grease. Vaporize vampires with a ray gun. Kick old vampires down the stairs. Feed vampires to alligators. Slice vampires with a katana.

>>95873521
>Garou are once again the root of their own problems
Every Time!

>>95873501
I think most people would can build something more powerfull than her with the same quantity of XP.

>>95873501
>Golgol Fangs First

>>95871383
>Welcome to unlife, everyone. I know you're all grappling with the beast, and excited to be aware from your sires for a few hours. They'll be here to pick you up after.
>But tonight we're here for the most important part of being a vampire.
>Yes, you heard me. Welcome. Welcome to posing class.
>Now, there's some anime tapes at the front door, that's your homework, "JoJo's bizarre adventure", some JC Penny catalogues, and for those of you not embraced at the prime of life, some coupons for the local tzimisce. Just grab one on your way out.
>Yes, the Prince is a Toreador, why do you ask?

VTR
Schmitz Creek County, Missouri has 20 towns
Creek Cross 40,000
Helltown 25,000
Devil’s Rock 10,000
Independence, Mercury and Sabbath; 5,000 each
14 communities or local areas totalling 10,000

There are 125 supernatural templates and 375 lesser templates.
62 vampires, 31 werewolves, 15 deviants, 16 beasts and 1 demon.

>>95874551
Wait no, not 16 beasts but 16 hunters.

>>95874551
1 out of every 180 people in that county is involved in the supernatural, with a quarter of those people being fully immersed in the supernatural, either as truly supernatural beings or as hunters of them.

Does a ratio like that require justification, or is it acceptable as a natural occurrence?

>>95874673
Vampire wise it's probably a bit high, and I'd guess a lot of the supernaturals are a response to them existing. They probably don't eat terribly well, or at least travel to eat. The werewolves probably spend their time offing them mostly by mistake - there's probably a single pack of forsaken and a bunch of warring pure packs. I have no idea why the deviants would be there, or the child molesters. The demon's probably having the time of his life. Maybe he's finding out WHY there's so many supernaturals.

>No Glass Walker sugar mommy

Is V5 Chicago as retarded as it looks, or am I missing something? Earlier editions of Chicago were dumb, By Night in general is pretty dumb, but holy shit. Tell me I've missed something.

>>95875013
it's been a while since i read but i don't remember there being a hidden spark of genius in it or something

>>95871044
1. The Wyld isn't doing to great either, when it's not being poisoned by the Wyrm gnawing holes in it's cage it's being smothered by the Weaver, so It's probably also as mad as as a sack of custard hammers.
2. I only want the Wyld to have a Triat because attempting to directly commune with the full Celestine of Unrestrained Cosmological creativity seems...ill advised.
But you're right, I really shouldn't be trying this with Werewolf...I'l go back to grumbling about how we should have got an actually well-written Entropic Mage Group instead.

>>95873501
>Aktully wr haveeee her stats, she is beatable by most legends
You think somebody who put fear in most Garou, killed many, many Garou and by far the most vulnerable to the Garou's favorite activity, violence, unlike their other problems, would be killed long time ago if there were Garou Legends that can kill her.
She isn't even the cowardly type to explain her survival.

>>95875045
It reads like gang apologia mixed flavoured through vampirism, with negro Vader in charge of it - fail me once and die a thousand deaths! Critias is probably the most compelling part of it and his whole thing is "Alas, now I hate myself and my master for having bound me! I will rebel against him by doing exactly the same thing as I was doing before!".

What the fuck? It's not quite rudi or "the she-wolf" tier but it's up there. Maybe equal with the random muslim stuff. Maybe the Beckoning is just the call of the last competently written book in the line - it's hidden in the middle east.

>>95866013

>>95872798
Auspexlets, when will they ever learn?

>>95873897
>some coupons for the local tzimisce

>>95873568
>Feed vampires to alligators.
That's cruelty to animals.

>>95875013
Why would you care? It's obviously not a book made to cater to your tastes, so you're just wasting time here.

>>95875013
It's probably not the worst V5 books, that's Blood Stained Love, but that doesn't mean anything considering state of V5.
(No joke, Blood Stained Love is full of ideas that is appropiate for 1000+ year Elders or Tzimisce than for most players and Tiktok play is garbage)

>>95876038
I still can't believe one of my players gifted me this. 90% of these so called "high humanity" gifts sucks.

>>95875777
>Why would you care? It's obviously not a book made to cater to your tastes, so you're just wasting time here.

>Is this book dumb or am I missing something?
>WHY DO YOU CARE

what

>>95876038
What's doing on in this picture? Are they just being dramatic over a bike wheel? Is the one with the homer simpson jaw losing her head? There seems to be a seam at the back. The one facepalming looks like his head is tearing off. I'd swear it was sunlight but nothing else seems to be burning.

>>95876054
those dates are garbage too. The tea-party is alright.

>>95876054
>handing another vampire something to sell to the tremere
>werewolf bait
>your own fanfiction
>more tremre fuckery
>your own 'art'
>gay porn
>gay porn
>suggestion you brush your teeth
>cheap fake vitae
>social one upsmanship

>stalking
>being told to sit still and be quiet for hours
>put yourself in a tzimisce's power, i'll totally do it too!
>sewer tour
>be forced to see someone's furry fanart
>follow me out into the woods, I'm totally not going to have werewolves waiting
>ambush
>ambush
>literally the 2 hours night/chasing women at the park meme
>gay vampire orgy

>>95876054
>"a malkavian elder's journal, detailing their erotic dreams"

That sounds like something that should drop a vampire's humanity by 5

>>95875088
>so It's probably also as mad as as a sack of custard hammers
So.. Business as usual? It's the fucking Wyld.

>>95876251
The whole Blood Stained Love book caused me to lose some faith in Humanity.
See image, no wonder Elders disdain younger vampires if young vampires get stupid ideas like these. "Now that you have entered my domain, you have to get married."

>>95876078
>Thinks previous edition of Chicago by night are dumb
>Thinks all previous by night are dumb
>Stilll reading V5's
>Still surprised he's finding it dumb.
Even provided V5 was perfectly respecting the spirit of the previous version anon would have found it dumb. What was anon expecting? That V5's writting team with its incredible pedigee would redeem the line?
At some point this is masochism.

>>95876251
That should be something like a difficulty 9 occult + Wits roll and if you succeed you get a permanent derangement and can now learn Dementation as if it were in-clan

>>95876388
>Ventrue
The clan would absolutely give a childe final death for thinking this was a good idea. The political fallout of bond-poisoning an important kindred's favored childer would make this completely not worth it, and that's ignoring the possibility of trying to enforce this on a particularly old or powerful vampire.

>>95873568

>>95873568
This but with tzimisce

>>95877010
Tzimisce get double

>>95870693
Basedence is just institutions. That's not meritocracy or technocracy. It's more like being Bri'ish o algo.

What would be your reaction to a White Howler revival plot line set in the 2020s?

Bad idea; Marauder "organization"
You've got three types
>Fluxian Marauders: the Most Dynamic, they just hang out in Flux, the Shenti realm for Dynamism, honestly they're kinda okay people.
>Static Marauders: Closer to Stasis The ones that have the most stable relationship with Consensus Reality
>Entropic Marauders: They want a place where Consensus Reality will stop hurting them, if that means they have to smash it with hammer then so be it.

>>95877888
I'll run this by my GM, he really loves leaning into the three forces.

>>95876054
>orgy
>date
huh? who the fuck would think taking someone to an orgy is an acceptable date?

>>95876120
I think it's some weird sex act where she runs the guy over with a wheelchair

>>95878202
Wait really?
>looks at the image
What kind of relationship is this? You go to orgies with one stands and your bros, not people you actually date.

>>95877888
I asked this last thread, how much control do marauders actually have, or are they basically victims of their own realities?

>>95878350
how much control do you have over the world? marauders basically completely and utterly reject reality and substitute it entirely with their own based on whatever paradigm and madness they have.

example: the Marauder believes you literally can not possibly harm someone without their consent so neither they nor you can attack each other until you've given the other permission while within the marauders reality bubble. even if the marauder wants to attack you they would still need to make you give them permission since in their mind that is just how reality works, it's like how you can't just decide right now to stop believing in gravity so you can start hovering around

>>95878350
Most Marauders don't choose their realities, their beliefs. In that sense they are victims of their own realities.
But well, at higher levels you subconsciously warp reality around you to match your beliefs, to the point even Paradox goes "You are right" So they might as well be the freest mages in another sense.

>>95875088
Regarding your first point, they're all crazy in different ways. The Weaver wants to delete the concepts of creation and destruction from existence so it can focus on perfecting that which does exist, the Wyrm wants to replace the Triat with its own demented concept of balance and its own vision of the Triat, and the Wyld isn't really an entity with any thoughts or desires, it's just a mindless force that vomits out an endless stream of detritus that the Weaver has to make sense of and work with. Though they are all mad in different ways, these are very different ways and trying to apply the same template of madness to all of them is a disservice, if my opinion.
Second of all, yeah, communing with the Wyld is probably comparable to an acid trip of mind-blowing proportions, as you're effectively offering your brain to it as an outlet for its infinite growth and inspiration. But if there was a way of communing with the Wyld, I feel like that would undo some of its characterisation as a mindless force without an agenda. There's nothing that it would listen to and nothing that it wants to say.
In an ideal world where the Weaver and Wyld were as fleshed-out as the Wyrm, they'd have shit that is just as compelling as the Wyrm's. But I don't think that the road to that destination involves making the Weaver into the Stasis Wyrm and the Wyld into the Dynamism Wyrm.

>Tzimisce is doing her vore role play before fighting the 2 hour old fledgling hopped up on sewer rats
>Spends three minutes describing the proceeding potbelly
>Realize PC is that sexy monster women from MIB
This is why you vet your players with a game zero

>>95878147
the other thing I came up with was a more concrete internal "Structure" for Threat NULL.
>First point of order, the Union has 3 types of "Enlightned Genius": Scientific, Technical and Dogmatic
>Second point: within Threat NULL you don't just have the named instances, you have ones that represent the Static Extreme of all the Technocratic Spheres
>Final Position: The main groups within Threat NULL are s follows
>Explorator Caste ("Scientific Geniuses")
>Membership: Agents, Null Engineers, Time Threat
>Clarity Spheres: Data, Void Correspondance, "Temporal Sciences"
>Autocthonian Nulls/Manufacturing Caste ("Technical Geniuses")
>Membership: Forces Threat, Autopolitans, Transhumanity
>Clarity Spheres:"Force Based Paraphysics", "Materiel Sciences", "Enlightened Biology"
>Harvester Caste ("Dogmatic Geniuses")
>Membership: Dimensional Science Threat, Residents, Entropy Threat
>Clarity Spheres: Dimensional Sciences, Primal Utility, "Chaos Theory"
I'm calling them Castes because they're effectively Drone Mages.

>>95877578
Dog shit. Goes against all the themes of the game, and that's just not how cultural revival works.

>>95878626
>Threat NULL
I hadn't heard about these guys; but I notice that at least in the 20th Anniversary edition, the Technocracy doesn't seem to be the bad guys anymore. Was Threat Null meant to be their replacement as antagonists? Kinda like the Shadow Court after they decided that the Unseelie didn't need to be bad guys?

>>95878519
>at higher levels you subconsciously warp reality around you to match your beliefs, to the point even Paradox goes "You are right"
Not even. That's something all "loud"/external marauders have this from their inception. It's only the "quiet"/internal marauders that don't explode nearby people with paradox.

>>95878926
Threat NULL is from revised. It's what happened to the old technocratic master&archmages after they got trapped by the avatar storm(which everyone hated because it makes no fucking sense, there are a shit ton off effects that's render it a non-issue).

>be ruleslet ST
>players buy into max gen, max wp, balanced maxing of physical and mental stats and skills
>one of them thaumaxxed and went all in on focused mind and can now laugh off every vampire weakness
>throw everything at them from werewolves to sub-5 magi
>game starts feeling like rocket tag, they win but only by not dying
Wat do

>>95875294
And yet, she's still in the same splatter world where someone who gets the drop on her once with silver could turn her, and many other legendary Garou, into a messy corpse. It doesn't even have to be another Legend Rank who takes her out, just someone who planned a few steps ahead!

This isn't vampire. Elders aren't insurmountable or unbeatable, and they don't have protection from your powers as a matter of course.

>>95879284
>Zero social builds in a social game
>ST can't figure out how to punish them
Is he autistic? Literally just take a thing they want and make the only path to getting it a social puzzle, with every attempt at murder-hoboing everything just making the situation worse.
Why is he throwing supernaturals at them? Every "combat" build loses if you take a large number of humans, give them semi-decent guns, and put them somewhere several meters of open space with clear line of sight at the vamps

>>95879284
>>one of them thaumaxxed
Based.

>>95878519
Are they even sane enough to properly use sphere magic?

>>95879785
Define "properly". They can absolutely use sphere magic, much to everyone's detriment. The thing with marauder's is that their reality bubble is aligned with their paradigm, but they still accrue paradox. This forces whoever else is closest to suffer the backlash instead of the marauder.

Supplements peaked at Midnight Circus and Blood Tides

>>95879038
>Threat NULL is from revised.
Ah, that explains why I've missed it.

>>95879891
Blood Dimmed Tides was one of my ST's favorite books (our chronicle took place in a coastal city).

>>95879962
I have never played OWOD only COD and I use both of those amazing books

>>95877888
We've already got the three versions of Quiet, madness (dynamism), denial (stasis), and morbidity (entropy). Basically schizophrenic marauders, coping marauders, and homicidal marauders.

>>95879699
>large number of humans, give them semi-decent guns, and put them somewhere several meters of open space with clear line of sight at the vamps
This won't work even on non-minmax characters.

>>95880028
>This won't work even on non-minmax characters.
Anon, this kills most elders. Numbers + decent weapons trumps high levels of celerity. Only things that counter it are becoming non-material with obtenebration.

>>95880028
There are basically zero entities that can tank rifles even if minmaxed into high soak. An Elder with 6 stamina 6 fortitude wearing plates only has 17 soak, which means the're going to soak 8-12 damage 75% of the time. And that character doesn't exist metanarratively unless your game is some stupid bullshit frankly. Even a super durable vamp with 12 soak is still only going to soak 4-8 damage. This gets even worse if the humans have automatic fire, and frankly, I wouldn't even roll individually with enough dudes. Fortitude and supernatural resilience and making bullets bashing works in the sense that vampires only need their spine to not snap and their muscles to not get snapped to keep moving, organs and arteries aren't an issue. Even if you just had 8 cops with pistols shooting at a vampire, I would not roll 8 different attacks, I would roll one attack and count it as a special kind of automatic fire. MAYBE I'd check to see how well each cop does, but to a certain point the rules exist only as a guideline. When you are running tabletops you are not running a wargame, you are running a story. Light up a vampire will a bunch of pistol rounds and they are going to take damage by sheer weight of volume.

>>95880122
>>95880154
>Ante tries to take over the world
>Statistically get killed by a well armed army squadron from any small country
How the fuck was ToJ vampire scenario even a thing? The writer have to rewrite the rules just to make any of them a credible threat.

>>95879699
Further context
>dark ages game so no guns
>they teched into complimentary spreads of charismaxxing and manipusliming so social scenes are even easier for them than murder

>when a methuselah wakes up from torpor, wanders out, and is immediately hit by an 18-wheeler, exploding into ash and leaving the distraught trucker very confused yet also relieved

>>95880154
>Light up a vampire will a bunch of pistol rounds and they are going to take damage by sheer weight of volume.
Sure, but firearms as bashing damage and half damage anyway mean that even an average neonate can probably survive a firing line and be mostly okay. Someone with 5 sta might even be able to ignore it. While firearms sure are a great solution I don't think things are quite as bad as you're making them out.

>>95879738
Legit, the power gap between ritualists and other vampires might as well be the rift between Garou and MMA fighters

>>95880154
>unless your game is some stupid bullshit frankly
>he doesn't know

>>95880203
Something something elder levels of fortitude are supposed to handle that but they really don't because hardness is way to rare in comparison to multiple actions

>>95880280
Firearms is only bashing if they don't aim for the head. Headshots are always lethal damage.
A military sniper can head-splode vampires only slightly less than normal humans.

>>95880203
>>95880271
That's because the average methusaleh isn't gonna stand in front of a well armed army squadron from any small country and wait for them to shoot him full of bullets. That's like arguing garou should be extinct by now because Pentex could just fill all their facilities with 50+ (limit before Delirium stops taking effect) squads of grunts armed with flamethrowers and wait for the hordes of retards to end themselves rightly on them.
Obfuscate, Obtenebration, Protean, Dementation, Domination, there's a ton of abilities that can just nae nae anything that isn't a hyper-specced squad of Ajin-hunters that operate with robot-like precision. Short of that, you go back to needing a space laser to get rid of one.

That being said, the stats in the books are almost always indicative of something that could generally die to a squad of Chiraq drive-by gangers, and a good ST will usually supplant in his own interpretation.

>>95880409
>gay pride parades are secretly pentex plots to allow them to hunt and forcefully buttplug werewolves with silver

God bless you, anon. There's a job in their guerilla marketing division waiting for you. Making people celebrate multipurpose sponsorship events that are also werewolf hunts? You'll go far. Until you fuck up, then they'll just fill your arsehole with banes, but until then? You are on the RISE.

>>95880280
I'm not saying that the pistols should kill a vampire, but they should HURT. Instead of rolling 8 attacks doing 4-6 bashing damage, averaging out 2-3 per hit, I would probably roll the entire thing as 12 bashing. Statistically, this will average out to the vampire taking 0-2 bashing damage after all modifiers, making them Hurt (-1) which

1. Saves a fuckton of time rolling all that bullshit
2. Is probably what I would expect anyways rolling your average beat cop (4 to 5 firearms dice) with some missing, some doing better than average.

A supremely tanky vampire with say, 3 or 4 Fortitude? They're going to probably shrug this off entirely, and that's fine. But then that's just pistols. Repeat this with rifles, that takes it up from 12 (8 cops + 4 from the .38) to 16, and that's me being nice and just handwaving and saying "all these bullets missed the head." Even with 4 stamina 4 fortitude, the likelyhood of soaking the average 8 damage, is basically null. And the amount of vampires with that much fortitude and stamina in Modern Nights is going to be probably 1, maybe 2 vampires in the entire city.

>>95880456
Not to mention that, if you roll each attack individually, a vamps chances of making it out alive nosedive exponentially the moment they take their first wound penalty. Each dice removed from soak makes it more likely for each individual attack to do damage, which decreases their soak for following attacks, etc..
This leads to the majority of outcomes being either a vamp having the soak to be completely unscathed or they die because 1 wound turns into 20 within a turn.

>>95880538
Health level penalties don't apply to soak.

>>95880538
>applying wound penalties to Soak
Anon that's sadistic as fuck. Also not the rules.

>>95879853
Properly as in, they’re sane enough to use forces to do things like create fireballs and lightning to attack someone else, instead of having forces be a part of their paradigms out of their control

>>95880556
>Anon that's sadistic as fuck.
And perfectly reasonable

>>95880440
Alright, now picture this sir:
>move all our manufacturing facilities to australia
>dump a dozen dirty bombs
>send clandestine arms suppliers to make sure everything and everyone is shiny and c̶h̶r̶o̶m̶e̶ silver
>encourage a culture of dumping gasoline on anything and everything
All else fails we can surround the continent with our oil tankers and scuttle them

>>95880639
Depends on the marauder, but the books stress that the most dangerous thing about marauders is how sane and functional they can seem on the surface. Most of them can absolutely do magic the "right" way.

>>95880551
>>95880556
I've been applying them to everything for awhile now.

>>95880698
You apply them to everything except Damage and Soak rolls. You also don't subtract 1's from Damage and Soak rolls. Those two rolls are special.

Anon...

>>95880704
To be fair, this is inconsistent in WoD20. Mage for example applies wounds to everything except soak, arete, and avatar rolls. Mages lose dice from everything else, like willpower rolls...

>>95880672
This is just the northern territory/western australia and the car culture that persists through the entire nation. The natives won't stop sniffing and everyone else won't stop tricking out their shitty 90's cars.

I happened to be in a hospital recently and a chap in the bed ACROSS THE EMERGENCY DEPARTMENT started throwing up enough petrol that I could smell the stuff from my bed. Put silver in the petrol and watch the problem solve itself!

>>95880722
Well yes, but across all editions you never touch damage or soak rolls at the very least. It is sacred because more or less those rolls are already penalized by nature of the wound penalty once (dodging, attacking). If you apply the penalty to damage or soak you effectively double the wound penalty.

>>95879891
I typically loathe oWoD crossover but I love Midnight Circus. It's just fun and manages to make the gonzo and serious bits work in perfect harmony.

>>95880409
Backing up what this Anon is saying, why are we presuming any vampire, let alone a methuselah is going to stand around and get shot by 12 dudes with rifles like it's a firing squad?

Even if you can hurt an elder with your ASS-69 super duper rifle, you won't get a shot off. They'll vanish before your very eyes, crush your skull before you can pull the trigger, make you feel the overwhelming urge to fall to your knees in worship, or make your very blood boil with a hand motion.

>>95880736
Silver fumes...
Think we can bribe the technocrazies to loan us their cloud seeding satellites for some trolling?

>>95873568
this wasa written by a creature no better than a blank body
it even uses a possessive when referring to a human
considering it only accessory to something worthy of attention (vampire)

literally if your species cant take a shit without leaning in and sniffing EVERY GOD DAMN TIME
you dont deserve the comforts of civilization
wander naked into the reaches of northern canada alaska the deep arctic circle

>>95874975
What would that even look like?

>>95881020
An expensive date followed by a cocktail of mystic designer drugs, a broken bed and a pulverized pelvis. She keeps the relationship going by buying your medical debt and only accepting payment via sperm donations.

>>95880927
I'm pretty sure most cloud seeding already uses silver. They'd charge you for them doing nothing.

>>95876602
The only reason people talk about v5 is some kind of bizarre r/atheist-tier attempt at superiority. Just mentioning something related to v5 will get people posting unprompted opinions of it even though pretty much everyone here thinks it's dogshit. It's bizarre.

>>95881481
It is a whole thing about how despite being shit it is the one thing that keeps getting new topics to discuss and given how easy it's to take a look at it here people will look at the car crash even if it's not exactly healthy.

>Banu Haqim
>Lasombra
>Malkavian
>Nosferatu
>Toreador
>Tremere
>Ventrue

How do you feel about V5’s Cam 7?

>>95881579
The substations are shit news at 11

>Fera
Predate mankind and used to hunt them, being the dominant species on the planet until the Werewolves did a funny. By the Industrial Revolution, you could count the number of Changing Breeds on one hand and the only ones who could fill a medium-sized country were the Weresharks and the Werewolves. If you put both together, are they even a Million? 3 Million? They’re a minority thats for sure, besides the dangerous lifestyle, careful spiritual balance and general stupidity with how their reproductive cycle works, Fera also don’t live longer than humans, they eck out a century thanks to their Spirit-half, but unless they have really high Gnosis, they ain’t seeing their 200s-300s.

>Vampires
Nearly predate human civilisation, but they’ve always had it tough with maintaining their numbers: backstabbing, the Sun, Kane, the Flood, other Supernaturals, mortals or natural disasters during Torpor, Sorcerers and Mages after 4000-2000 BC. Thanks to their ease of proliferation and immortality, Vampires are probably the most numerous Supernatural (after Ghosts and Wraiths), but because of the Masquerade and their fear of Thin-bloods, they’ve keep their population in check, so I am not sure if there’s more than 5 Million Vampires on Earth in the 21st Century. Actually, there might not even be a Million, they are that scared of what Humanity would do to them.

Cont.

>>95881848
>Fay
They are an interesting bunch… representing both the “spirits of nature take human/animal form” and the “The Fair Folk form mock Courts and Kingdoms, mimicking Mankind” sides of the Fairy Myths. Before the Closing of Arcadia, they lived long, some were even immortal, and breed as mortals do, with the occasional “born when a mother tell their son those creaky floorboards had a name”. After the Sidhe vanished, Milkling lifespans plummeted. Changelings were considered Old in their 20s and, unless they mastered the balance between Banality and Glamour, the process of Reincarnation erased their memories and changed their True Mein (a Troll was reborn as a Pooka). And while they could give birth to humans with a slumbering Chrysalis (and the Reopening of Arcadia during the Moon Landing Released many fresh Fae Souls), every Cold Iron and Soul Slayed Death is one less Kithain in the world, they cannot make more Feyish Souls. I do not think there are even a Million Changelings left. I think it’s generous to say there’s a few Hundred Thousand at most.

With all that being said I have but one Question: Who *wants* to play Changeling the Dreaming? For who was this game made? This does not satisfy in the least the Elven Fantasy.

>“Hello? Yes, I want to die in my 20s from old age because the cubicles are too grey. I don’t want an Immortal Ego, thanks, just recycle me into a fresh baby and override its soul with mine. Magic? Just give me the ability to create puppies woven from human dreams, my control over them has to be earned too, can’t be too powerful. Oh! Nearly forgot, can you add True Immortal God-Fae as well? I want to feel the constant pressure of needing to play a noble Troll exactly how a noble Troll should be played, lest the Oathkeepers descend from the Heavens and curse all Trolls in existence for my fuckup.
Glad at least CtL bothered to give the people what they want.

>>95881579
Unironically better than what it was before. Brujah and Gangrel being there never made any sense, Lasombra being a snowflake Clan only present in the Sabbat has always been shit, and Tremere having zero competition in occult made them way too insular.

>>95882048
How do you feel about the Anarch roster then?
>Brujah
>Gangrel
>Ministry
>Tzimisce
>Caitiff and thin-bloods

>>95881324
And we can afford it

>>95881324
>Setting up those stations ourselves
Inefficient, boring, probably getting our shit wrecked by a Garou raid
>Throwing money at the technocracy to do it for us
Funny, efficient buck-to-pollution conversion, will probably spark a war between Garou and mages, technocracy will use it to fund new ways to rape Gaia we couldn't even conceive of while continuing to kill spiritualism

>>95882231
It's fine, but as usual the Anarchs just aren't interesting regardless of what Clans participate. I've never seen them as anything other than young Cainites that are little more than street gangs.

>>95876909
Moonclaw, you can't complain the computers I give you break down so often if you're using them in the middle of the woods and out in the open like that

>>95867592
You know that WoD is not supposed to be a 1:1 to the real world, right? All cities are bigger, more populated, violent, with an even bigger economic-social class gap, etc.
You can do whatever you want in WoD Florida, man. It's your game.

>>95877578
People are doing it since forever. I'm more than OK with that.

>>95865963 (OP)
how much fun is this adventure?

>>95882726
Anarchs are bunch of young posers whose faction only really exists because a young shota Methuselah has a crush on one of their top guys.
>>95883377
I never read it, since it is a Storytellers Vault book, but Hollow Earth is always a fun place to visit.
You have Nazis, dinosaurs, lost kingdoms, magical artifacts and a lot more. Just make sure you don't accidentally exit to Jupiter.

>>95881579
Remove ass mite and it's ok.

>>95882231
>dumb clans in the dumb group
Perfect.

>>95883554
Remove Tremere too, those retards belong with the Anarch trash.

>>95883587

>>95883607
Tremere trash detected. How does it feel, being retarded?

>>95882231
>Lasombra in the Camarilla
>Tzimisce with the Anarchs

Wait, so who tf is left in the Sabbat?

>>95883621
It feels amazing to see you seething.

>>95883628
V5 Sabbat is a clanless fascist soup. Those who remain basically renounce the clan system.

>>95883656
Wait, so that's why the Sabbat nossie from HtP complains about people "platforming the concept of clans"?

>>95883675
Maybe, though it also could just be a personal belief. Despite having an orthodoxy the Sabbat collects fringe beliefs constantly. In the early years of the sect there were some who figured out how to reliably embrace someone as a Caitiff (feed the body a mix of an entire pack's blood). The idea behind this was that since caitiff have no clan, they would have no antediluvian and thus be free of their influence. However it fell out of fashion due to the side effect of the childe coming out with the highest generation of the pack and predjudice from the Lasombra and Tzimisce.

Point being is that you don't need to be V5 to have a weirdo pack priest say clans are fake and gay. The real issue is he used the term platforming when the show is set in like 2006.

>>95883675
Yeah, the V5 Sabbat get rid of any clan loyalties as they serve as a distraction from the ideology of the Sabbat, to reinforce the fascistic direction that they wanted to go in with them. The V5 Sabbat are just an army of jack-booted thugs who are out to suck methuselahs dry and rule the night, all in the name of Caine.

>here are your Blood Brothers, bro
https://youtu.be/poLPKdc-zTY

>>95883675
If HtP is using the WoD5 lore, then it's going to go to absolute shit. Thanks for the prior warning.

The elves told me to make this

>>95884070
>elves
You mean changelings?
Or the fantasy race?

>>95884070
Anon, was the "elf" wearing a suit and mirrorshades?

>>95883554
>>95883607
>Tretards continue to seethe at the og sorcerer clan

>>95884082
>>95884070
Kill Changelings. Behead Changelings. Roundhouse kick a Changeling into the concrete.
Slam dunk a Changeling baby into the trashcan. Crucify filthy Milkling.
Put anti-psychotics in Changeling food. Launch Changelings into the sun. Stir fry Changelings in a wok. Toss Changelings into active volcanoes. Urinate into a Changelings gas tank. Judo throw Changelings into a wood chipper. Twist Changelings heads off. Report Changelings to the IRS.
Karate chop Changelings in half. Trap Changelings in an asylum. Crush Changelings in the trash compactor. Liquefy Changelings in a vat of acid. Dissect Changelings. Exterminate Changelings in the gas chamber. Stomp Changeling skulls with iron toed boots. Cremate Changelings in the oven. Lobotomize Changelings. Mandatory therapy for Changelings. Vaporize Changelings with a ray gun. Kick Grumps down the stairs. Feed Changelings to Sobek. Sodomize Changelings with iron pokers.

>>95883942
They're using 5th edition as a base but following their own interpretation of the lore. For instance, the Second Inquisition is already going in 2006, but the Tremere pyramid is still around. Kevin also offhandedly mentions lupus garou in one of the audiologs, so there's a good chance they're using W20 instead of W5 as well

Would an Assamite antitribu be allowed to return to Alamut before Ur-Shulgi broke the curse?

>>95884572
>This is the kind of person who works in child psychiatry

imagine how fast the Sabbat would've won if they didn't make the blood brothers into infertile retards

>>95884694
Good

>>95884756
If the blood brothers weren't infertile retards they probably would've taken over the Sabbat from within.

>>95884501
Isn't it a tie between them and Tzimisce?
Koldunism has sorcery in the name.

>>95884691
Wiki says they generally try not to fight each other, so probably. Whether they'll survive Haqim's stan or not (they believe he was bitchmade) is a whole other story

>>95884756
Blood brothers are expensive to make and they're just slightly better shovelheads.
Sure it's cool when they combine but that's nothing you can't achieve by just making a decent szlachta.

>>95884756
>>95883914
>that one anon who actually likes blood brothers

>>95884756
>>95884791
They tried that. Immediately got out of control when they broke free. There is an all-female take on the Blood Brothers where they forcibly assimilate anyone they embrace into an identical attractive latina woman linked into a hivemind.
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Las_Hermanas_Hambrientas

honestly I prefer the v5 alt-bane for the Tzimisce where they can't enter homes without permission more than "you need le dirt" or "you need le funko pops" to sleep.

>>95884849
The idea of a self-replicating blood brothers pack that's broken free turning into an assimilating hivemind is honestly a really good idea. Lots of horror potential.

However, because they're all hot, I feel like this may have been a writer's fetish.

>>95884903
>Tzimisce where they can't enter homes without permission

I really like that vampire weakness, which is why I don't like it being Tzimisce exclusive.

>>95884925
Tbf is there anything in WoD lore that isn't the writer's (barely disguised or not) fetish?

>>95884903
Personally I just find the idea of a Tzim carrying his jar of dirt like fucking Jack Sparrow.
Also I especially like the idea of some poor ghouls essentially being just "dirt slaves", with their main task being traveling to the Tzim's home to gather enough dirt every couple of months.
It's just funny to me.

>>95884925
>>95884948
>all the local kindred start turning into copies of video related
What do you do?

>>95885095
Run away like a good Nosferatu.

>>95884849
That was definitely written because a writer had a very specific set of fetishes.

>>95885369
You and I both know Nozzies would be the first to run in en mass.

>>95885985
I may be suicidal but I would rather die in another way.

>>95884903
I like the suggestion from an old storyteller's companion better.
Vampire's permanently inherit the weaknesses of vamps they diablerize. Elders use this as justification that the only allowed diablerie is a sire consuming misbehaving childer, ancient vampires and modern sabbat have more weaknesses for players to exploit, and it adds another layer to consider if the opportunity to diablerize presents itself(Are you Really sure you want to drink the Nosferatu elder?)

>>95885095
>Dark Ages traditionalist
Administer the lawd's judgement on the witch menace

>>95886011
Who said anything about dying?

>>95883740
Clans being fake and gay makes sense in the Sabbat. Lasombra tend not to care about Lineage and the Tzim who care heavily about those things usually sequester themselves in a tower somewhere. If everyone is chugging each other's blood from the vaulderie chalice, Clan divide would evaporate pretty quickly amongst the lower rungs of the Sabbat. Especially since Shovelheads don't exactly get a crash course in Clan lineage and Pack Priests tend to force everyone into the same morality system anyway.

>>95884903
I think you can get some good plots out of it. You know an enemy's haven but he is too strong, steal his dirt and wait to attack him.
I've seen similar ones with Sabbat hunting down and killing a Ventrue's herd.

>>95884849
>>95884925
what would happen if i diablerize one of these hiveminded vampires?

>>95886074
You become one via possesion.

>>95886054
It does remind me of the ritual to become a Caitiff and renounce your clan, but that's just one of the many Sabbat philosophies.
Really the Sabbat is a bunch of very different people only united by the basic principles of the Sabbat and the vaulderie creating a sort of enforced groupthink.Enforced ritual brainwashing is what's really keeping the Loyalists and the Ultracons from trying to kill each other.

>>95886090
Speaking of that ritual, what would be some good in universe reasons to not use it?

>>95886121
The only reason everyone doesn't do it is because the foundational identity of the splat is its Clans.

>>95886121
Secretly being manipulated by your antediluvian, like all of the Sabbat is.

Quasi-jokes aside, most people find community in their clan and relate with them more. The Lasombra view themselves as uniquely the heart of the Sabbat and take pride in how they allegedly killed their ante.
Others might take a more religious approach and believe that forsaking your clan is forsaking Caine.
In the end of the day, the realest answer is that despite their PR job, Panders are still viewed as dumb dirty worthless, probably loyalist, dogs to throw at people en mass. It's a downgrade to a proud Tzimisce or Lasombra who must guide their lessers. After all, they are the heart and soul of the Sabbat.

>friends homebrew group fucking exploded because they went on a tirade about character moments happening offscreen
>Culminates into actual genuine arguments about each other
I wanna make fun of them so bad i wanna do it i wanna fucking piss them off even more goddd why wasnt I there to see this

>>95881906
You've drawn a lot of weird and wrong conclusions about changelings. First off, they are hands down the most numerous supernatural. 40 vampires in a single city is an extreme outlier, and remember that that's across three factions. Meanwhile, changelings will just bump into each other on the street. The fae soul of the changeling ages at a different rate from the mortal body, and you will get individuals who are still childlings in old age. King David himself was at least mid-30s when introduced and no one thought of him as old. Not only that, changelings are able to be immortal, most choose not to as it means giving up their human side. Yes, reincarnation "erases" their memories, but that's true for everyone in WoD where mortals also reincarnate. Changelings still are able to remember more about their past lives than most, having a background dedicated to it. The kith of the fae soul remains consistent between reincarnations (unless you subscribe to the Sluagh conspiracy, which appears exactly twice). Even fae killed with cold iron may not actually be dead forever, some say they reincarnate into duantain who some say will then reincarnate back to their original fae self. And fucking no one is worried about the Tuatha. They appear in pre-historic fae myth and one end time scenario. Fomorians are much more present on the mind. People want to play Changeling because it is the only gameline where you actually feel like a magical being. You are beholden to your own magical nature and aren't expected to act logically or serious all the time. Your magic is second only to mages when you aren't unleashing, and your cantrips come easily and natural to you. The world doesn't fight you on it because it is your birthright. The Chimerical reality that changelings live in is a magical world, one that isn't boring or grey. That's something Lost doesn't give you, where instead you play a normal human with PTSD and weaker magic.

>>95886161
>The only reason everyone doesn't do it is because the foundational identity of the splat is its Clans.
Like I said, in universe, there really isn't a good reason not to do it. Hell, you can just bullshit your way Clan membership because the Tremere aren't going to check every other Toreador bastard. Even ignoring that, some clans are treated like shit anyway, so you only get the upside.

>>95886162
>Quasi-jokes aside, most people find community in their clan and relate with them more. The Lasombra view themselves as uniquely the heart of the Sabbat and take pride in how they allegedly killed their ante.
>Others might take a more religious approach and believe that forsaking your clan is forsaking Caine.
They don't get a community, they get people who will murder you LATER.

>>95886212
I could see a Sabbat Tremere (technically not antitribu) doing this ritual to benefit himself, but also understand this is a Pander only Ignobilis Ritae, and not only are Panders still looked down on, but also the Sabbat are often composed of self-serving hypocrites.

>>95886263
No more than any other vampire in the sabbat. Especially with the AIDS Jungle Juice they all drink.

>>95886054
True. However many clan curses still create differences even if the Sabbat erodes clan culture. Nossies are ugly. Brujah go apeshit. Ventrue can only drink specific types of people. Toreador will stand there gormlessly at a painting or a nice rack.

I agree clan culture would be far less of a thing in the Sabbat, but there are still objective differences.

>>95886121
Caitiff can learn any discipline but have to pay extra. Out of mechanics people would notice caitiff learn disciplines slower. There's also the occasional clan exclusive merit. Not to mention clans provide inherent shared experiences and in a society of liars, why would you trust a dude saying he can remove your clan?

>>95886339
>why would you trust a dude saying he can remove your clan?
That's the best reason

>>95886263
The fact every childe is at least 1 step blood-bound to their sire(and if their sire is smart, more than that) is going to lead to a lot of clan loyalty out of the fact every vamp pines for the vamp above them in the hierarchy.
Tremere and Old Tzimisce take this a step further. Every tremere is bond to the entire clan and old tzimisce are able to alter the nature of bonds using rituals

>>95886180
40 vampires in a city is retarded desu. Even the old lore doesn't have this, New York had like 300 Camarilla and 200 Sabbat and who knows how many Anarchs not me I forgor. Also Chicago had over 200 Anarchs in it before the War for Chicago. The official lore number of "1 vampire for every 100,000 humans" as much as it's held up to be a "law" is literally never followed.

>>95886557
To this day I swear someone added an extra zero to that number by mistake. 1 for every 10,000 gets much closer to the numbers given in many of the By Night books.

Don't know if this is the right place to ask or not, but I was just re-reading my copy of Vampire the Requiem 1e's corebook, and I noticed that in each clan's writeup, one of the three clan disciplines is written in italics. Does anyone know why that is?

Like, the Nosferatu's writeup lists their Clan Disciplines as [i]Nightmare[/i], Obfuscate, and Vigor; is there a reason why Nightmare is in italics?

>>95886880
>is there a reason why Nightmare is in italics?
That's supossed to indicate that their exclusive Discipline.

>>95883214
>since forever

It's weird that from day 1, the thing the devs have been most pissy about is the idea of returned WH's. Even other line's badguy/lost factions don't seem to draw this much reeing from their devs.

>>95886557
You are now realizing that your average city has less than 400,000 people.

>>95881077
Elaborate some more please.
Does she look like your (pic)

>>95886987
>It's weird that from day 1, the thing the devs have been most pissy about is the idea of returned WH's.
That's because if they come back in any meaningful way, their death and corruption sound a lot less impactful. The same shit applies to the extinct breeds.

>>95886339
It's not like the pander ritual actually makes you a caitiff anyway. Not really.

>>95886744
Especially if you work by states instead of cities. I can buy some random town only having like 10 or so vamps because it's that unimportant to the cainites. Leave space for the other stuff

>>95887028
Which going by the lore number would mean it has 4 vampires. Even 40 simply doesn't shake out in a small city unless it's Camarilla only and the Sabbat simply don't care to show up to it.

>>95887028
The thing is that most stories aren't set in "average" cities. Every By Night book is in some multi-million capital or hub

>>95887081
Depends on the version, iirc the more recent versions either turned the aspirants into an Caitiff or reduced the weakness to that of a ghoul in more extreme cases such as the Nosferatu.

>>95887128
A lot of cities probably have no vampires. The ratio is an average, so the most vampire-populated cities will probably have something like 1 to 1000 ratios and a lot of cities have 0 to 1000000 ratios (obviously a bit extreme, but you get the gist.)

Just taking ZIPF law population demographics into account, Tokyo, Delhi, and Shanghai should have 10.000 vampires each, or about 30 percent of the global vamp population.

>>95887255
Source? Because the only one I'm aware of is v20, and in that one I'm pretty sure all it does is cut off 'dynasty' powers from affecting you and malkavians from the madness network.

Which splats could be replicated using the Deviant system? Vampire and Werewolf seem easy enough, but are Mage or Changeling doable?

>>95887128
Personally I think two to three dozen vampires is a good number for smaller cities. The Sabbat doesn't have a presence everywhere, and besides which there's only so many locations and resources in a given city. That and let's be honest it's not like vampires sire more vampires terribly often unless they're making some sort of demographic power play and the Prince can easily use the traditions to shut that shit down. Means 2-3 members of each common clan on average and wiggle room for a few other weirder vampires.

>>95887261
>>95887294
It's WORLD of Darkness not major metropolitans of Darkness. Anywhere that's anywhere is going to have a Vampire because that's where Vampires go. The only reasonable time you're going to not have any Vampires in a place is if there's something there very specifically keeping them out. This isn't even a Europe only thing, if any Anarchs catch wind that there's a free city you can bet at least one of them is going to get a bright idea, and there's plenty of Princes in Waiting who want their own domain besides, or just vamps who wanna grill for Caine's sake and would love to be the one and only vampire in a city.

I personally imagine every single city has at least a coterie, because why wouldn't it? There's too many factions who want to be left alone, which ironically usually means they're fighting for territory.

>>95887328
Vampires are very specifically mentioned to be urban creatures, and dread even going to the suburbs as those are the outlands.

You get occasional vampires that might be one or two in a college town, but anyone trying to live in Bufu Egypt or overpopulating that little place will get a new asshole torn by the Paw Patrol or WORSE.

>>95887268
>Source?
V5's description of the ritual in their Sabbat book.

Whole subconversation about cities ties to some work I have on my plate right now for an upcoming Sabbat use. Something I've had in notes for a while is the idea that city-centered political sieges of power should be a thing of the Camarilla (and - until eventual complete rework - of the Anarchs as a mirror thing).
While not strictly nomadic, I'd like make what remains of the Sabbat a lot more mobile. I'm thinking the Sabbat should follow different territorial lines, but I can't for the life of me decide whether I want to define front lines each with their chain of command, making the sect at its core even more war-based, or just by regions rather than cities.
Probably too much work for too little return, but I'm really wanting to tailor the Sabbat more like a military force that doesn't play on the same board as the other sects. If we're going to put emphasis on the antagonist aspect with a war raging on, might as well go all the way...

Hope I make sense, sleepwalking right now.

I have a concept in mind that I just came up with. Is there a way to play a changeling in CtD that creates artificial fae souls? Or take fragments of a soul and like a plant has it grow into a full fledged one overtime, helped with a little bit of glamour?

I also thought it’d be cool to create chimeras and permanently empower them with the wyrd. Perhaps even countering their inherent weakness to passive banality.

>>95887350
>nothing can affect the clan curse of the nosferatu
>EXCEPT A PACK OF LOW GEN CAITIFF COBBLING TOGETHER RANDOM RITUALS OF MANHOOD

ffs

>>95887350
>nothing can affect the clan curse of the nosferatu
>EXCEPT A PACK OF HIGH GEN CAITIFF COBBLING TOGETHER RANDOM RITUALS OF MANHOOD

ffs

>>95887328
There are about 10.000 cities in the world. Assuming 100.000 vamps worldwide, an even spread gives you 10 per city. Intead assuming a simple 20/80 split you've got 20.000 vampires occupying 8000 cities. That's enough for 2.5 vamps per minor city, so you're right that it's not absurd to say each city normally has at least a coterie.

>>95887358
You could follow the cultures of historic nomad societies. Sabbat packs roam from urban center to urban center, restocking there from their city counterparts and then moving back into the wilderness. Explains the high rate of turnover at the lower levels.

>>95887401
Can't have a clan curse without a clan :^)

>>95887328
I'm a little confused as to why you quoted me alongside the other guy, since I more or less agree with your statement. I think it's fair to put vampires in smaller cities and even small towns. I just think that a couple dozen is plenty for a smaller city. It gives you enough vampires to form a court and have intrigue without creating overpopulation issues. I agree with even podunk places having a coterie. Usually when I do my city building I consider the suburbs and immediate countryside as part of the domain, which lets you have plenty of vampires without beggaring belief.

Heck since I'm not big on quantum werewolves I'm cool with a lone vampire ruling over a little town to (attempt to) avoid politics.

>>95887358
I like to emphasize the nomadic packs more in my own games as well. Although personally, I think trying to make a more consistent Sabbat runs contrary to their greatest strength; a very dangerous dumpster fire that exists mostly in opposition to something, specifically the elders, polite kindred society, and the puppets of the Antediluvian (everyone else). If they ever got their wish and destroyed the Camarilla, they'd immediately implode, probably taking most vampires with them.

>>95887451
Quantum werewolves work much better, but that's because Aberrant 2e has a system for collateral damage that really should have informed how W5 conceptualized the game instead of trying to go for yet another game of personal horror.

>>95887410
Why would you assume 100,000 vamps? Remember, World of Darkness actually has more population than we do, and it's denser. There are less suburbs, more high rises, more cities, denser cities. As much as vampires SAY they don't sire without reason, sometimes those reason are dumb stupid and shortsighted. And beyond that there's just been a lot of time for them to kick around. The Camarilla can pretend it's in control, but it's really not. There's plenty of independent vampires running amok and not just the Brujah Anarchs either.

>>95887464
>World of Darkness actually has more population than we do
No it doesn't

Who are the better fleshcrafters, verbena or tzimisce?

>>95887464
I am assuming WoD has higher population: 10.000.000.000 instead of our 8.000.000.000. With that number and the general guide of 1 vampire per 100.000 humans (I know this is contentious, but it sets a rough range), we have 100.000 vampires.

>>95880736
based uncommon beverage enjoyer

>>95887079
I'm picturing her as a tired theurge hospital management who tracks kinfolk via medical records and urban spirits nudging things along.
One day she finds a good enough disposable kinfolk, a lost son of a Fianna, and decides to have some fun with the poor bastard.
One night he wakes up with a woman in Galabro on top of him, she says "our children are going to be beautiful" as she injects him with umbral aphrodisiacs sending both into a frenzy with an acupuncturist touch.
The man wakes up in a hospital bed 3 days later and the hospital gracefully agrees to suspend his 600k debt as long as he works for the hospital from now on where the manager gets to financial dominatrix bullshit as she mind fucks him into thinking this is good.

>>95887637
Verbena mostly because their PC rules are less gimped.

>>95876038
>TikTok LARP

Honestly this doesn't sound bad on its own but my experience with WoD LARPers is particularly frustrating. And the screenshot you posted reads like something someone wrote on a forum somewhere.

>>95887637
An average tzimisce neonate has 2 or 3 dots in Vicissitude and the ability to ghoul animals. He can give a creature pretty much any physical ability that relies on having limbs and muscles or change its appearance and physical stats arbitrarily.
A starting verbena has maximum 3 dots in life and can cause small changes to herself or alter simple life forms, which then need quintessence forever.

Maxed out obviously the mage wins, but that's a foregone conclusion.

So what does the Syndicate even do all day? Just sit on their asses and deny funding for all the cool shit the other Conventions want to do?

>>95888254
Turn money into more money, convert that money into magic, use that money to found their sex dungeon, make sure lower Syndicate members and rest of the Technocracy doesn't know Pentex is their fault, hang out with other rich guys including the Tradition mages if they are rich enough etc.

>>95888254
Same thing anyone with a ton of money does, try to acquire even more money.

>>95888254
ensure the world economy works, touch little kids, water down technocratic inventions so sleepers can use them, throw more money into the bottomless pit (also known as the Void Engineers), and of course do rich people stuff like laughing at the poors and golfing.

>only vampire is fun, all other white wolf settings are cringe and icky
How do you respond without sounding like a total nerd?

>>95888641
the problem with most other WW settings is that it there's too much world baggage, and it becomes detached from everyday life
at that point just play a fantasy setting

>>95888658
>it becomes detached from everyday life
at that point just play a fantasy setting
It’s almost like WoD is some sort of... urban fantasy? No, that’s crazy.

>>95888675
you know exactly what I meant

>>95888641
>How do you respond without sounding like a total nerd?

>>95888641
Lasombra, use anal eldritch void suction on him!

>>95888641
"Look past your biases and see what it actually is, every WoD splat at its core is the same. A mix of stupid, fun and edge."
No joke, some people take VTM too seriously, some take it too cracky, not realizing it's both and the primary reason of playing it is for fun.
This is a setting where Blackbeard is a Wraith, his rival pirate is a Vampire, there is supernatural Wrestling on TV, the Anarchs whole reason of succeeding is because they are a Methuselah's toy project and many more stupid but fun stuff.

>>95888708

Every supernatural is either gay or retarded

>vampires
Gay

>Kuei-jin
Retarded

>werewolves
Retarded

>changelings
Gay

>mages
Retarded

>wraith
Retarded

>demon
Gay AND retarded

>mummy
Retarded

>Hunter
Gay

One thing to note is that the one vampire per 100.000 humans shorthand is just that, a shorthand, and it doesn't imply that vampires are homogeneously spread. There''s bound to be places with higher concentration, and others with lower than expected.

>>95887410
>Sabbat packs roam from urban center to urban center, restocking there from their city counterparts and then moving back into the wilderness.
Restock but also attack, encroach, destroy, then leave. I like to use the Sababt as the carpet bombing to the Beckoning's selective suppression (not /only/ as that, but it's a useful tool). The Sabbat came, elminated all the vampies in a smaller city, or in one part of a bigger city, took all they could, then left.

>>95887451
>If they ever got their wish and destroyed the Camarilla, they'd immediately implode, probably taking most vampires with them.
That's almost what happened in our own version of the setting: the Sabbat "won" decapitating the head of the Camarilla, erupted in another civil war and ate itself. The Camarilla as it exist is basically a 2.0 that incorporated elders from both sects and what remains of the Sabbat is a core of the most fundamentalist war-heads.
Made transition to V5 a lot easier as far as we're concerned.

>>95888641
If you're even just being asked that, you're way past worrying about such a label.

>>95888254
>So what does the Syndicate even do all day?
- Try to convince sleepers that money as an exchange vector predates money as a physical tool.
- Expand the encroachment of money as essence on the future toward the past.
- Generate and experiment alternative models of redistribution with different properties. Money as infection? Maybe that has a future!

So is there a way for changelings to do >>95887389 ?

>>95889526
Anything is possible with Naming

>>95889263
>werewolves
>not gay (and retarded)

Anon, have you seen what kind of stuff got published for WtA? Even before the whole "Ross the She Wolf" thing, there was a lot of gay stuff in the splat. Changing Ways all but says that only the Silver Fangs don't practice sodomy (openly) on a regular basis and that even the normal wolves in garou society do that

>>95888254
>So what does the Syndicate even do all day?
Have you ever been to a marketing firm? It's just that but the autistic children running it have a good idea on e in a blue moon.

>>95885985
That assumes the "latina vampire curse" fully overrides the nossies' clan curse and won't just turn into them into super ugly versions of the latina vampires instead

>>95889263
>Orpheus
Mature and well adjusted adults

I have to present our collective apology to non-posters and passerbys alike, we are caught remiss in our most basic duties, found lacking in our most basic standards of discousre, and it is with great shame that I have to ensure immediate correction:

>>95888254
>So what does the Syndicate even do all day?
Your mom.

There. Sorry again. You can now go back to constructive posting.

>>95890533
You're talking about a fetish curse with gooners.
While such things are valid vectors for conversation, the issue we inevitably run into is that gooners try to contrive setting elements to enable their fetish, rather than explore potential fallout that may or may not be icky to them.
Your time and effort is better spent spamming Erastil on the Pathfinder general. That's always good for a laugh.

>>95890777
>You're talking about a fetish curse with gooners.
Anon, the gooner was the WW Writer for the latina vampire bullshit. Anons on this thread are making fun of him and memeing.

>>95884617
>W20
Still bad, but less bad.

>>95890857
They have to stick with W20 for woof related stuff at this point. O'Tolleys is already set up as the setting for the next audiolog and Wyrmtide just decanonized them from W5

>>95890891
Anon, did you think I was suggesting that going with W5 would be good? The best case would be going with 2e canon with some revised elements mixed in.

>>95890857
They are definitely using more 20th than 5th, but they might be using 5th's approach to Crinos where it's an intensive form to assume and use, but in exchange going around in Homid is less punishing.

>>95890841
I'm excited to see when Paradox prints a v5 version of Wod Mexico and calls them LatinX

>>95891000
I'm gonna personally fly to Sweden and show them why our crime rate is so fucking high

>>95889710
How does it work?

>>95890940
I didn't, I was just pointing out that sticking closer to W5 lore is likely no longer an option for HtP

>>95890945
So far we've only seen 1 woof in action, and she didn't seem to struggle to maintain crinos form

>>95891074
I guess, but it was strange that she instantly shifted into Glabro but then took ages to shift into Crinos when it should be the same for both forms with W20.

>>95891098
Because it looks cool, why else? It was the big reveal of the wolf, and the transformation is a huge part of werewolf media.

>>95888641
>some people ITT took this stale bait.

>>95889311
>Made transition to V5 a lot easier as far as we're concerned.

Why would you want to transition to V5 in the first place? You're already running different lore.

>>95891169
>Why would you want to transition to V5 in the first place?
The system is unironically better.

>>95891169
Ultimately, I run what players ask me to run. So I run Revised and V5 games at the same time. And other systems beside when I'm in the mood (just recently "Boule de Neige", a retroactive variation on The Pool).

>>95890891
>Wyrmtide
God that was shit.
Compared to the previous Book of the Wyrm, it lacks the charm and personality.

>>95891186
Bait

Or severely lacking context for what you’re quantifying as “better”

>>95891638
Everything about v5's system does things better and more succinctly than older editions. This is not a hot take, old WoD's system has always been pretty awful, so the bar isn't that high.

>>95891675
>no generations
>blood potency
>hunger dice

I dunno senpai

>>95891098
Shifting up to crinos is a higher difficulty on the roll.

>>95891682
There are gens though.
>hunger dice
People who complain about Hunger Dice are people that are generally bad at risk-management and just want to play vampire superheroes.

>>95891682
Personally, I like adding a modified version of the hunger dice system to the existing hunger rules in V20.
Helps outline why lower gen kindred look down on newer kindred. The young idiots can barely control themselves from an elder's perspective.

>>95891675
>>95891682
You're both idiots.

Most of the core mechanical improvements of V5 were taken from nWoD/CofD. It has generations. It also has blood potency.

The changes unique to V5 are highly controversial, and for good reason as they cause it to play in a very specific manner.

>>95891858
And it's still better than older versions because I don't have to sit through three dice rolls just to attack once.

>>95891682
>>95891858
Why is Blood Potency bad? Seems fine to me.

>>95891868
I just converted the oWoD stuff to Requiem. Best way to play.

>>95891903
I think the funniest thing about stuff like this is that before v5, VtR was on non-stop blast here. Now that it's completely dead it's more well-regarded.

>>95891912
Idk what to tell you, I never hated Requiem. I prefer (most) Masquerade clans and a decent chunk of the lore, but there's a lot of good stuff in Requiem. The rules are an upgrade in most cases so I ported all the Masquerade stuff I liked over. Kept some Requiem stuff as well.

>>95891941
Oh I never disliked it either, just an interesting observation.

Is nWoD/CofD really that better to play than oWoD?

>>95892052
oWoD has too much power gaming for my tastes, and the system itself isn't particularly strong either.

things I like about V5
>some of the new clan banes
>clan compulsions
>disciplines having alternative powers that fit better into the "vibe" of the different clans
>haven background, adds more depth and mechanical impact to something that should be very important for a vampire
things I don't like
>everything I didn't mention

>>95892106
oh and I forgot Lore Sheets!

>>95892118
Loresheets are good enough that I adapted a lot of them backwards to Revised and even made some new ones for the games I used to run.

>>95892052
In my estimation yes. It cut out bloated skill/talent/knowledges, made combat far less of a wonky slog, and is just broadly easier to both run and play.

It is by no means a perfect system. Depending on the edition it still has pretty glaring issues, but unlike oWoD these issues are easy to homebrew out or around. Since they are less baked into the system.

>>95892052
Yes

>>95892052
No.
It's better for specific kinds of games thanks to some mechanical updates, but it lacks 90% of why people play WoD in the first place.

>>95892052
Not really. It focuses on different things and very bland.

>>95892052
Owod is a broken mess mechanically, but it's also fun to play and has more interesting things in the setting.
CofD is mechanically tight, but it's blander by default and the ST has to work harder to make a good campaign.

>>95892670
>Owod is a broken mess mechanically,
Did 20th fix anything at all or not really?
>but it's also fun to play
I agree.
>and has more interesting things in the setting.
My GM strongly agrees.

>>95892850
>Did 20th fix anything at all or not really?
Nah.

>>95891977
It's the same thing that happened with the prequels and EU in Star Wars. They got a lot of shit until the ST came out. At which point they looked like masterpieces by comparison and people started circle-jerking over them.

Which is not to make a comment on the quality of any of those things I just brought up, but when there's a new, even more polarizing thing coming out, it makes everything before look better by comparison.

>>95892850
Oh no 20th made it worse but that's also what makes it the most fun

>>95892850
Not really no. 20th made some things even worse and often the writers overstepped to try rewriting things into their personal fanfic. MTA, WTA, and WTO 20th are all complete garbage. VTM and CTD 20 are good, VTDA is the best of all of them.

>>95892052
Depends on what you mean by "better to play", since that's quite subjective. Mechanically, I don't consider oWoD to even be a "fun" kind of broken, like say Cyberpunk 2020. Even when you're soloing a fight like an ultra-badass it happens in such a cumbersome way I can't enjoy the brokenness.

Let's not muddle lore and mechanics. Mechanically, there's few systems worse than oWoD. Lore is a matter of personal taste. I find it much easier to bring lore stuff to a different system than unfuck oWoD. This isn't a new development. Some people would play VtM in GURPS back in the day.

>>95892994
>made it worse
>>95893013
>made some things even worse

How so?

>>95891000
Would they then change the oriental books to JaponX or NipponX?

>>95892850
>Did 20th fix anything at all or not really?
20th was basically an attempt to appease literally everyone, primarily the writers who wrote it, but also players. It wasn't like Revised, where they went in and toned stuff down, trying to make power stacking more manageable, they basically threw everything together, half-assed the lore for a bunch of stuff, retconned years of metaplot, and then shoved it all into a single big book.

What you have to understand is that 20th wasn't VtR, so everyone latched onto it as some kind of godsend or return to form.

>>95893013
What exactly was wrong with W20? The core was more or less just a collected edition for rules. CtD20 was much more egregious with its changes to the setting.

>>95893617
>CtD20 was much more egregious with its changes to the setting.
I noticed that childling, wilder, grump is no longer about age; presumably because of pervs playing childling satyrs. What else did they change?

Is our boy ever coming back?

>>95893889
What did he do?

>>95893889
It's been 2,5 years since the second season ended.

>>95893736
That change isn't so bad since it's more or less always been the case. Your fae soul ages with banality, and they've always had physically old characters who behaved like childers. Changelings still go into chrysalis starting at 8, and if you ask me it's much creepier to have an 8 year old wilder. Other changes include Duantain now being born wrong and evil, enchanting mortals being near impossible, banality not really being a factor in play (grumps don't even suffer from environmental banality), the Shadow Court being behind irl protest movements. Just a lot of dumb shit from people who didn't get the setting and what made it fun and interesting. Plus the added core kith are not good. That's Selkies, Clurichuan, Piksies and Autumn Sidhe (cause Sidhe needed to get even more shit, right?). What makes the original 9 kith good is there archetypicality and the way they don't really correspond to irl myth. Too many additional kith are "I found out about this type of fairy, here's how to play them exactly even though they're just a reskinned Boggan".

>>95893970
He was a tzi. One of the good ones.

>>95893971
You're taking every opportunity to expose yourself as a euro, huh?

>>95893994
Oh for a second I thought he did something fucked up.

>>95893974
>the Shadow Court being behind irl protest movements
That surprises me.

>>95894000
Yes.

>>95894011
Where from and what game are you here for?

>>95893736
>childling, wilder, grump is no longer about age
Wait, then what the fuck is it about?

>>95891062
Naming has basically no boundaries at all, you can just use it on something and turn it into whatever you like. Look up Reweaving.

>>95887389
What exactly do you mean by "fake fae soul"?

>>95894091
The roles they play in far societies.

>>95894091
>Wait, then what the fuck is it about?
It's just a state of mind now. You can go from being a grump to a childling if something changes your attitude.

>>95894100
Is it in the core book, tried to google True Naming rules online and I couldn't find anything

>>95894149
I said "artificial" fae soul. Since the idea is that faes dying to cold iron or maximum banality are dead forever, I'm interested with taking the mad genius route and crafting new fae souls to pump up new changelings

>>95893617
>CtD20 was much more egregious
The changes are unironically better than the original in most cases.

>>95893594
Taking the most extreme example: Wraith completely changed all the mechanics for the worse, unbalancing the system to near-unplayablility with liberally applied and heavy-handed nerfs.

>>95894282
Wrong.

>>95894282
Correct

>>95894282
Beans.

>>95894269
>Is it in the core book, tried to google True Naming rules online and I couldn't find anything
It's C20

>>95894430
Found it, thanks.
Though it would take a lot of willpower and glamour to get to the result. As an extanded test (costing 1 glamour and willpower per times rolling the dice), it would need 5 for the changes to be permanent, and I guess another 5 successes to turn a normal soul into a fae one, for a total of 10. Is there a way to rack up the successes more easily?

>>95894269
>some fucking crazy guy is turning anons into changelings

>>95894562
Yes, you can use other Arts that give you successes in a future action. It would require a powerful Changeling, but Naming can do whatever you want it to

>>95894686
I approve his plans

>>95894703
Please elaborate

>>95894686
And there's nothing wrong with that

>>95894562
Way easier than you'd think. A thing that the Devs overlooked is that Reweaving is Always at -5 difficulty. You need to know the target's True Name to even use the power and knowing a target's TN give you a -5 diff to all magic used against them.

>>95894758
I see... but then that means that I can't turn people into fae in masses since it looks like it takes lots of time to learn a single target's true name (and beat their willpower x3 in an extanded roll)

I wonder if there's a way to remedy that.
I have nothing raw-wise in mind, but if there was something like a shinigami's eyes from Death Note that would cut time a lot... though it would still be a one at a time process, or I take the time to learn the True Name of X amount of people for Y time and gather them at Z place and try a big ritual in one go

>>95894758
>Cantrip is basically true magick without paradox
>It's cast at difficulty 3 Before bunks and with a minimum dicepool of 6
The devs were absolutely the otherkin freaks that gave changeling a bad name back in the day.

>>95894814
Team up with the Syndicate. Every online service now requires people to register under their true name. Once you have access to that, all you have to do is read off of a list. Sure, some of the names are going to be bogus, but most people are dumb enough to actually put down the real thing.

>>95894814
>it takes lots of time to learn a single target's true name (and beat their willpower x3 in an extanded roll)
Only if the target isn't in line of sight. If you're looking at the person, you can continue the extended action every round until you accumulate enough successes. The cantrip doesn't have the "must spend glamour every roll" that other cantrips do, so you can do the entire extended action on the glamour to initially activate it.

>>95894826
Congrats, crazy anon turned you into a changeling. You are the otherkin now.
Roll:
1-Boggan
2-Eshu
3-Nocker
4-Pooka
5-Redcap
6-Satyr
7-Sidhe
8-Sluagh
9-Troll
0-Your choice.

>>95894924
Oh boy, can't wait to get Named.

>>95894956
Ok, who wants to fuck?

>>95894924
He can try, but I'm an autum person. I'd repel him like true faith to a vampire.

>>95894924
Fuck it, why not

>>95894826
Isn't the minimum difficulty for any roll 4? Still it's 60% success per die, which is quite a lot.

>>95894866
Technocracy are actively aversed to faes. Anytime they spot one they immediately do everything in their power to permanently destroy the fae soul... sounds suicidal working with them. Though finding a way to hicjack their system could be a way.

>>95894878
Oh nice, you're right! Shame it can't be the same for reweaving. Though perhaps the whole ritual could be used for all the victims and not a singular name at a time.

>>95894976
>Isn't the minimum difficulty for any roll 4?
No, why do you think that?

>>95894988
a ST who ruled it that way, which I guess now was wrong

>>95894964
>one less cat pooka in the world

>>95894976
>Shame it can't be the same for reweaving.
Between Trume name a basic bunk you can get reweaving to difficulty 2 very easily. That's an average of 80% on 6+ dice minimum(it'll be closer to 10 since you need higher realms to affect strangers).
Add in other cantrips that can give you a shit-ton of dice very easily(like Contract), and you can be throwing around 15-20 dice on each cast.
>Though perhaps the whole ritual could be used for all the victims and not a singular name at a time.
There's this realm called "Scene" that allows you to affect entire areas with any cantrip. Use that in combination with Saining and Reweaving to affect all the targets you want.
You'll need to accumulate their combined willpower x3 on the initial saining roll though.

>this taste is the taste of a liar Giorno Giovanna!

>>95895004
It explains difficulty in the section literally labelled "Difficulty" in the core book. Minimum is 2, Maximum is 10. Not to mention cantrips are all diff 8 before bunks and modifiers, Bunks alone go up to -5. You're DM's ruling doesn't make sense with the core rules of the game.

>>95895031
It was for VTM

>>95895024
>Between True name and a basic bunk you can get reweaving to difficulty 2 very easily. That's an average of 80% on 6+ dice minimum(it'll be closer to 10 since you need higher realms to affect strangers).
>Add in other cantrips that can give you a shit-ton of dice very easily(like Contract), and you can be throwing around 15-20 dice on each cast.

Now that's a plan!

>There's this realm called "Scene" that allows you to affect entire areas with any cantrip. Use that in combination with Saining and Reweaving to affect all the targets you want.
>You'll need to accumulate their combined willpower x3 on the initial saining roll though.
And that's a hurdle... like if I turn 10 people I'll need 30+ successes with the extended test

>>95895057
>if I turn 10 people I'll need 30+ successes with the extended test
You'd need 100+ success. The average willpower for a human is around 3-4, with 10 of them it'd 30-40 dots between them. Multiply that x3 would give you 90-120 range.

>>95895057
>It was for VTM
VTM, WTA, MTA, WTO, and CTD all have a minimum of 2 and max of 10 in their difficulty sections.
In VTM, that wouldn't make sense because it breaks Auspex. Your ST made that rule up.

>>95895101
oof, seems like a transformation in mass is a pipe dream. Shame, since I put 10 as a down low number and even that is waaaaay to much.

>>95895119
it seems so

>>95895125
Not if you have high Contract 5. If you use Saining on yourself to learn your own true name, your cantrip buffs on yourself are -5 diff forever. Then cast Cantract with yourself as the target to make a Vow and pull all the successes toward giving you extra dice. Then cast Contract 5 again to make a vow that all the extra dice will now apply to for this scene for a shit-ton more success and put all those successes toward extra dice per scene. Repeat until you're have enough dice or the ST has murdered you and is now looking for somewhere to hide the body from the police.