Plasma Nerfed Again edition

Previous Heresy: >>95886639

>HH 3.0 Leaks
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>New Edition Soon™
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>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)
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>30k TACTICA & TIPS
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>MEGAs are down for the time being, going to wait for things to cooldown with the new edition and leaks before bringing them back up

『Adeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialis』
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>Tactics
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>Thread Question:
What's your favorite weapon type? Has it gotten a glow up with the new edition? If it hasn't been revealed yet, do you expect it to?

>>95892998 (OP)
>Thread Question:
>What's your favorite weapon type?
Plasma.
>Has it gotten a glow up with the new edition?
It's so fucking over.

>>95892998 (OP)
>If it hasn't been revealed yet, do you expect it to?
I dont see a way for nostraman chain weapons to be worse frankly, so heres hoping.
The power claw might also be very strong if it keeps its exact rules, since the super high roll overkill damage might be relevant now.

>>95892998 (OP)
>TQ
Either lightning claws, in which case we don't know, or Volkite, in which case we don't know.

>>95892998 (OP)
>Thread Question:
What's your favorite weapon type?

flamers, volkite and plasma. its probably over for one but so back for another.

Choom with be good

>>95892998 (OP)
>What's your favorite weapon type?
Love me meltaguns
>Has it gotten a glow up with the new edition?
They sure seem to hit like a truck but I expect it's going to be the same as in 2.0. Getting in range, even the normal range, is pretty fucking hard when the enemy can just move away with a reaction.
At least there seems to be less reaction points to go around and maybe TSS will not be so insultingly overcosted this time

>>95892998 (OP)
Disintegrators and what the fuuuuUUuck they're all over the place. Why can vets take so many?

>>95892998 (OP)
>TQ
Plasma, it's so over

>>95893046
Early in the heresy, many legions were heavily populated by Canadian decedents.

>>95893046
>Why can vets take so many?
Cuz they are so bad they might as well?
Still expecting that S4 being a typo. That's a retarded jump in power from one gun to the next otherwise...

I just don't understand why they so blatantly lied? For all of 2e's 3(?) major failings, at least is was spiritually 30k.

>>95893056
Volkites go from S5 2 shots to S6 5 shots in two steps

>>95893073
>Pretty happy with where the game is at
>Let's change the core mechanics
Truly one of the rules writing teams of all time

>TQ
>What's your favorite weapon type?
Plasma
>Has it gotten a glow up with the new edition?
I would suicide with plasma pistol but it probably wouldn't kill me.

>>95893009
>It's so fucking over.
Is getting 2 shots at max range not enough to compensate for breaching at 6+?

>>95893081
S4 to S7 is an absurd increase. That's no longer a better version of that gun type, it's made for something completely different

is a shift by one in the breaching for plasma really all that big a deal?
still monumentally powerful, at least potentially, no?

>>95893073
Hello Mechanid. I don't really think it's a lie. It's 80% the same. It's certainly not a fully different game like they did woth 40k.

>>95892875
that is if anything the original Unification Wars-era Terminator armour, look a the legs, that is MkII

>>95893116
Autogun > autocannon

>>95893117
Plasma was already shit in 2.0 when it had Breaching (4+) Most people only took the plasma cannon on the deredeo because it could one-tap terminators with Str 8 so each 4+ at least killed something worthwhile.

>>95893073
>creating new stats to replace specialty rules that already exist in game or changing the names of rules
This is a refinement
>let's completely fuck up AP, movement, line of sight, and cover
This is a new game. Mind you, most of these can still happen, those rules haven't leaked yet.

>>95893117
Its a pretty significant change yea, at least I would say so. Its 33% less AP2.

>>95893125
So the very different morale, melee, psychic, fliers, USRs, list building, and weapon statlines make up ~20% of the game? Not to mention the rest of the leaks.

>>95893140
As per the leaks all those still work the same no?

>>95893117
Do we really have to go over how a 5+ to a 4+ is a 50% increase in effectiveness on a D6 again. You'd think all the bitching about WS5 would get people to understand this by now.

>>95893167
We haven't seen how line of sight, movement, or cover work. I'm less worried about movement and more the other two, very slight changes can really fuck things up there

>>95893109
Not really, no. No idea why GW is this adamant on making plasma completely pointless, despite those weapons going through power armour effortlessly in every piece of HH media ever.
Like, what even is the intended purpose for plasma anymore? Too shit AP to go through armour, too high of a breaching to really have an impact, too low weight of fire to efficiently kill GEQ or marines through forcing enough saves, damage 1 so forget about doing anything meaningful to vehicles or multiwound models... I just don't see any reason to take plasma weapons ever.

>>95893117
>Is a shift by one in the breaching for plasma really all that big a deal?
Yes, decidedly. 4+ is reliable enough, 5+ is just about workable, 6+ is worthless for tactical considerations.
>Still monumentally powerful, at least potentially, no?
Not at all. Not even a little bit. You'l need Breaching/Rending attacks in such high numbers at that point that you might as well not use it at all.

>>95893163
>So the very different morale, weapon statlines
Refactoring. Still works the same.
>melee, psychic
Hasn't changed.
>Fliers
True, but flyers don't make it a complety different game.
>USRs
Some USRs changing to work better with the new stat formatting is stll not changing how the game works.
>list building
Big change but doesn't change gameplay.

>>95893180
I very clearly remember the leaker saying los and targetting works exactly the same. With AP saying identical i don't see why cover would change.

>>95892998 (OP)
What if?

>>95893200
Im more concerned with changes to terrain and how that impacts what cover save they give. The parts we have seen reference light, medium, and heavy terrain, whatever those mean

>>95893193
Did your eyes glaze over after you were told the WS chart hasn't changed?

Also, don't be disingenuous with how the USRs have changed.

>>95893117
>at least potentially
What the fuck is that supposed to mean?
A boltgun can "potentially" kill a saturnine

>>95893129
How would one even go about converting something like that? Are there any good MkII style terminator legs? Torso isn't a big problem, plenty of different ones to choose from and combine bits. Fist and wrist-mounted combi. Warp Spider jump pack for the carapace?

>>95893206
Even at fp2, the maximum fire is more damaging than the 2.0 plasma gun at ranges greater than 12”, simply because it has double the shots

>>95893206
Anon thats just an autocannon/assault cannon at this point.

>>95893073
you have to remember, GW are lying pieces of shit. They literally had to come up with a fake slogan to lie to warhammer40,000 customers when they stripped all complexity out of the game.

"Simplified Not Simple!!!!!!!"
when removing all points costs from all equipment, removing almost all customization from squads, no FOC requirements of any kind, making all combi-weapons into one joke statline (no difference between combi-flamer and combi-plasma and combi-melta), making half a dozen melee weapons just into one weapon, forcing everyone to buy one squad size, making every army 99% identical just "choose between the +1 hit, the +1 wound, the reroll or the sustained hits guy"

I quit as soon as every army felt 99% identical to every other army because they only have like 6 meaningful special rules and every army in the game gets 5-6 available.

Words and slogans from GW employees mean exactly fuckall. It's only the actual rules that tells you the truth. And the rules are saying HH3rd is not worth buying, which guarantees they'll release 4th edition 3 years saying "see we LISTENED to you angry customers and cancelled 3rd for you" (but then 4th will be even more 40k)

>>95893206
No ID so str 8 is mostly pointless.
Make plasma AP 2 again.

>>95893225
What if autocannons are really high S but 1D?

>>95893242
It matters against dreads and speeders, though not by aot

>>95893243
That could be interesting. Make them very consistent but slow tank killers.

>>95893242
S8 is nice to blow up rhinos tho

>>95893206
>Maximal fire

>>95893242
I'd agree, but we have already seen a glut of AP2, and honestly, with the price tax of 2+ saves, I'm pretty ok with less of it.
I would like plasma to be AP3, at least on maximal, however. Cut it down the middle.
This is really gonna end up like 5e 40k, where everyone was going with melat of various sorts for high value targets and vehicles both.
>make meltabunkers great again!

>>95893207
6+, 5+ and 4+ cover saves I assume.

>>95893282
It's only a real issue if you got both cover saves and armor saves in a game dominated by 3+ saves, where AP3 and better is taxed.

>>95893073
I don't care that it isn't 2.0 or a 'spiritual successor' but I still don't understand why they lied about it when the overhaul should have been the selling point of the edition if they really expect people to buy all new books after shelling out last edition. If there really were no csignificant hanges it would be beyond cynical to demand everyone buy new books, so why they wouldn't advertise this as an all singing all dancing new edition is so retarded of them.

>>95893073
This is called newspeak. The Ministry of Plenty declares a chocolate ration increase, from 30 grams to 20 grams per week.
The Ministry of Geedubs declares improvements from S7 AP2 to S6 AP4.

>>95893299
Well it isn't an entirely different game like the change from WFB to AOS, or 40k 7th to 40k 8th. Which is probably how GW rationalises it being a refinement of HH 2.0

>>95893299
So new players and grognards would buy it.

>>95893271
>Plasma gun's would be lucky to kill a single Terminator with Maximal fire.
Well that's just Prime

>>95893092
get ready to run on that 3 year treadmill, monkey

>>95893243
pretty much no chance. If they were S9 with 2 shots when stationary, and lascannons are S9 with 1 shot with dmg2, the autocannon would literally be better antitank than the lascannon in 100% of matchups.

With the way glancing hits works, 2xS9 D1 is literally always better than 1xS9 D2. An autocannon could proc 2 status from glances or a status and a wound. A glance from a lascannon would only be 1 glance and D2 ignored entirely.

Simulated 40,000 fights
10 dmg2 lascannons vs AV13 was 7 avg wounds dealt, 3.6 wounds to landraider.

20 shots from s9 autocannon gave 7.5 avg wounds dealt to av13, 4.2 wounds to av14

Autocannons would be the anti-everything gun and lascannons serve no purpose in any way.

>>95893335
If terminators got a price hike, it would be sensible.
Termies shouldn't be so easily killable for what they cost, nor have so many options they used to have taken away.
What I would give to have all the heavy options back; flamer, melta, plasma.

>>95893206
>>95892998 (OP)
Why the fuck didn't they just make plasma an Ap3 D1 Overcharche(1) profile?
It doesn't overlap with anything else and it's a dedicated anti-MEQ profile
Why does every gun need to be Ap2 or useless in this game?

>>95893377
Plasma is literally a worse version of autocannons now lmao

>>95893343
>A glance from a lascannon would only be 1 glance and D2 ignored entirely.
Las canons have Armourbane. They always count as a pen

This might be weird to ask but where could I get spare mk2 (when they come out) or mk3 backpacks?

>>95893393
imperial fists don't get +1 to hit with them so they had to be nerfed

>>95893406
From bits sites but they are highway robbery. If you need many your best option may be recasting them yourself

>>95893393
>inb4 Autocanons are Heavy(Ap)

>>95893417
IF aren't the poster boys of the edition now, they will be garbage.
There is someone at GW that just hates plasma. IDK if it's been errata'd but at launch all the plasma weapons in LI were straight up bad, to the point you would never take them.

>>95893428
That would just be straight up insulting

>>95893330
but it has the opposite effect, new players don't care about it being like 2.0 or even 1.0 and probably prefer that it be new so everyone is in the same boat from launch, and grognards already hated 2.0 so don't want more of the same.

>>95893437
They're still bad, unfortunately

>>95893437
>IF aren't the poster boys of the edition now, they will be garbage.
that would imply sallies and IW are going to be GW's golden boys which I can't ever see happening

I think we'll just house rule that plasma is breaching 5+ base and 4+ with overcharge, so that way overcharge is the same as before but if you want to be safer you turn down the temperature and thus reduce breaching chance, problem solved

>>95893450
New players will buy because it's a new big box on the wall.
Old players would be more likely to buy if they say the bullshit they did rather than "yeah we changed like 75% of the game"

I have no clue what any of these numbers mean, I need to get that core rule book in my hand so I can finally understand how a wargame plays.

>>95893222
I wouldn't even know where to begin

>>95893454
You would have to be retarded to take the plasma.

>>95892998 (OP)

I'm actually so annoyed when they make everything only relevant on 6s.

Plasma guns being str7 bolters for 5/6 shots you make is such a pointless rule for a gun your expected to have limited shots with because they are expensive.

Critical Roll making D&D normie popular, and thus "rolling a nat 20" popular has made GW just make everything a "on a 6 thing happens". Its just sooooo fucking unfun.

>>95893185
GW: buy disintegrator, throw plasma in trashcan.

>>95893073
The new rules have been written with AI. They are convoluted and unintuitive, taking multiple reads to convey their meaning. This may actually hurt new players, so maybe they have to sell it with a bold faced lie? Also the wholesale change to the FOC is incredibly restrictive yet Warhammer Community keep praising it as more free than ever.

>>95893402
Thanks, okay just programmed armourbane into simulation, 10 lascannons averaged 10 hull to AV13, 6.65 hull to AV14 if stationary (exactly halved on moving to 5 and 3.3 to each type)

An okay improvement, though if the lascannon squad is still 22% pricier, then scaled up buying extra autocannon dudes they jump to 9.2 vs 10 wounds for the cost versus av13 and 5.1 compared to 6.65 to the landraider.

I guess that'd actually be passable for autocannons. They'd be about equal for light and medium tanks, inferior against AV14 and lack the AP2 of lascannons, but more efficient against certain solar auxilia or mechanicus nonsense.

Is leaker anon still around here? Post some built models!

>>95893505
oh, my, no

>>95893568
This helmet is so fucking peak, its a crime they didnt have it in the animation

>>95893560
>The new rules have been written with AI.
Why do people keep parroting this dumb shit, did some jewtuber like outer circle claim this? Human beings are more than capable of writing something that's convoluted and hard to parse, thank you very much.

>>95893568
How exactly does one differentiate between Praetor and Centurion nowadays, I mean he's about as overdone as the 2.0 praetors

>>95893595
it's pretty cool but I would only use it as IW or IH
maybe a forgelord or praevian from another legion

>>95893560
The rules have always been written like this, just look at hh2 or tow.

>>95893615
I'm gunna remove the top and give it bunny ears for my world eaters, I love the cyclops feel to it.

>>95893606
It's the latest insult without calling someone/something retarded I guess,you just say it wasn't made by a person

So how good are people thinking the Saturnine are? 600pts for 6 dudes and a hero seems insane price wise.

I cant wait to paint them for my dark angels, give the praetor a Guts style greatsword and all, but still thats alot of points.

>>95893642
Honestly? They don't seem very good, like they're just okay
They're tough and can put out good damage when stationary but that's it
They can't react(SaP), so they'll get destroyed in melee, nor can they return fire, they're just there to be big bricks

>>95893613
Praetor = Bigger
Because the entirety of GW operates on Ork logic when it comes to HQs
That's why the 2.0 ones are straight up primaris models and why they couldn't help but make the 3.0 even biggerer even if it meant redesigning a suit of terminator armour to be retatded big as well

>>95893615
I'm going to give to my word bearers but with a thunder hammer from the Melee kit instead and give him the role of smashing all the retards who fucked up becoming Gal vorbak and turned into spawn instead.

>>95893046
So you have to buy new models to prep for thw new edition

>>95893642
They look pretty bad unless that extra rule removes Overcharge. If it does they'd be a pretty decent mod range support unit
I don't think deepstriking them is going to be worth it at all tho

Loken's got this, surely.

>>95893659
>They can't react(SaP)
When was this shown? SaP is not in the leaked USR

>>95893682
didn't he kick abby's ass in the book

>>95893613
Modelwise? They should be identical. They get access to the same toys and artificer armour is artificer armour no matter the rank.

>>95893682
They should make it lore accurate where they refuse to fight and and then Erebus comes in and stabs Loken in the back

>>95893682
The challenge rules are so convoluted that we will never know

>>95893271
>as you can see foolish maximal, I have deep struck my meltagun squad into your backline, forcing you to turn around and deal with it yes....

>>95893684
I guess you're right they didn't show slow and purposeful,just that saturnine have them

>>95893271
>>95893335
Checked and kekd

>>95893682
if he's using a chainsword he has zero business not losing instantly. If he has Rubio's force sword and the Mourn-it-All powersword, then Loken wins it.

>>95893669
Disintegrators are ass because they're too weak
Heavy Disintegrators are too strong and will wipe out most of their carriers within 3 shooting Phases
GW has to get it right on the Disintegrator blasters or they're all out of FOMO to exploit

>>95892998 (OP)
>https://imgur.com/a/344L8ku
Why is Overcharge not in the Universal Special rules?
That is not something you put on a Liber you stipid cunts

>>95893402
Unironically makes them worse as unless you need kill points then gimping a vehicle for a turn is better. They only become good not moving in a 10HSS.

>>95893705
it's a paragon chainsword :^)

>want to kill terminators? Too bad. Buy the new heavy disntegrator units or make new meltagun or lascannon squads because literally everything else is fishing for 5s and 6s
I'm making another cool check before I lose it.

>>95893711
That's what, critical hit 6+?

JAMES SHOW US THE RITES OF WAR JAMES

SHOW US DECURIONS AND MASTERS OF ARMOUR JAMES

>>95893705
>if he's using a chainsword he has zero business not losing instantly
Ap doesn't matter if you don't wear a helmet

>>95893718
Meant for >>95893713

>>95893705
They should make like an Artificer Chainsword for characters that has Rending or something to make it a good option.

>>95893725
Rending doesn't give you ap2 anymore,it's just autowound

>>95893729
then make it rending breaching 6+ wow so hard.

>>95893719
I'm pretty sure they've been replaced by specific detachments.

>>95893682
The only other totally worse totally useless phase GW shoehorned into the game was the fucking fighter jet phase that requires a separate table, book, and was NOT an optional expansion. Thank fuck everyone and events straight up disavowed it to the point people thought it was optional. Now it's this challenge bullshit where you're either tuned for duels and there's no point facing you or it's a slap fight for first shot. On the rare case it's two Duelist characters it adds another 40 minutes the the game.

>>95893719
I wanna see heavy chainswords

>>95893743
I mean if they're going by Epic route,then Rites of war will give abilities and buffs to certain detachments and then also unique detachments that have preset loadouts but are cheaper

Bully solar auxilia

>>95893753
It'll be unique structure, namely just adding a certain slot to the core detachment, and unique prime benefits.

>>95893747
Do negative initiative modifiers still apply to challenges? If so challenges will be more interesting than people think.
Besides there's only gonna be 1 or 2 a game now anyway, instead of every single combat between infantry units.

>>95893762
>Decapitation Strike
>+1 Fast Attack, Shock Assault, and Elite slot to Crusade Detachment
>May only include 1 Heavy Support Detachment for every other Auxiliary detachment. Logistical Benefit does not circumvent this.
>Models in the Primary Detachment get Hatred(Independent Characters)
>Additional Prime Benefits are: 5+ Precision Hits/Strikes, Shrouded 5+, and Fleet 2
I can see it

>>95893782
They do, it applies all initiative mods including from weapons. But people seem to think it's just going to be people spamming D2+ weapons and using one of the fast gambits to smash the opponent before they can strike back. Personally, I'm not so convinced: before, duels usually came down to who hit, wounded, and failed their save first to an instant death weapon. But that's not the case anymore, even a basic Centurion can survive a single power fist hit through the invulnerable, and potentially can take a 4++ if cyber familiars function the same. No, I think fast D1 weapons like charnable Sabres and (presumably) Paragon blades are going to have more play then people think.

>>95893782
Except everyone will have 5+ HQs thanks to the retarded new FOC.

>something as weak as plasma got hit with a nerf
>anything even remotely viable in 2.0 will be smashed
welp goodbye falax blades

>>95893818
Nah people will have 2 or 3 still. Maybe 4.

>>95893827
Fucking power swords got nerfed.

>>95893827
guaranteed nerf, no fun allowed

>>95893423
Know any trusty bit store that's eu based?

>>95893750
Well a melee weapon and pistol apparently no longer give you +1A so at least they have thay hoing for them. Can't be that much worse than a normal chainsword

>>95893811
>even a basic Centurion can survive a single power fist hit through the invulnerable
Basic centurions are 3W now. They can survive even if they fail the save. Challenges are not going to be anywhere near as fast as people make them out to be

>>95893827
Falax blades were dead as soon as we got shown that rending only does autowound now

>>95893827
>as weak as plasma
>kills 2+ 1W 1/3
>1/6 to take 1W from elite 2+/4++ infantry
>hardly ever kills users any more

>>95893894
Do we even know that?

>>95893827
>make all weapons equally shit
>thus you can field whatever you want while still pretending there's a drastic difference between a meltagun and a volkite charger

>>95893714
>fishing for 1/3
>guys it's impossible to kill a 2+ save dude

you're so fucking innumerate

Just what is wrong with Plasma being AP2? Vehicles can no longer explode, Instant Death is gone, and terminators are W2. Just WHY CANT PLASMA BE AP2?! WHYYYYYYYY

>>95893953
Don't worry friend. Its only minor tweaks.

>>95893912
Dude, challenges can keep going forever in a single assault phase, until the active player gets bored or someone dies in the challenge.

>>95893081
Volkites should be
10" Pistol 1 S5
15" Assault 2 S5
30" Rapid Fire 2 S5
45" Heavy 4 S6
No, I'm no going back in the straitjacket again. It's itchy

>>95893136
>Most people only took the plasma cannon on the deredeo because it could one-tap terminators with Str 8
Well not even that now, because Instant Death is gone. We get Damage *after* failed saves, but ID is gone.

>>95893929
Well it wasn't written anywhere on the assault phase but I guess it's possible that it's somewhere else.
There doesn't seem to be a weapon types section tho. Pistol are in the USR at least

>>95893811
>People want to say going first is better
>I think taking a weapon that helps go first instead is better
Truly a post with some of the content of all time.

>>95893986
Yup, and that blast is probably gonna be damage 1 too.

"Yeah my powerfist is going last but that's okay, I'll probably survive round 1 with 1-2 wounds then I get to hit back hard!!"

Sniper attacks are gonna very quickly guarantee the entire build around challenges is max initiative. Take even 1 wound off their praetor and powerfist type builds probably straight into the toilet. And stuff like an EC sarge with 2 wounds? pre-wound him with a sniper and just poke him with a spear in a challenge, which he can't refuse or his whole unit gets stuffed.

>>95894014
Yeah it sure makes it feel redundant when you cut out 90% of the post now doesn't it

>>95893962
Imagine what big changes would look like.

>>95894047
I think characters are still exempt from the provision of having to need to be assigned the first wounds batch.
And sergeants don't usually get the Champion or Commander type, so they can be issued challenges.

>>95894084
Alternatively, I think making a native WS5 unit's sergeant into a paragon of battle so he becomes WS6 +1A is going to be a funny way to catch unprepared praetors/centurions off guard in a duel

>>95894069
That would be 10th edition.

>>95894084
Precision shots still hit characters same as always. Not sure what retarded shit you're trying to say.

>>95894092
>native WS5 unit's sergeant into a paragon of battle so he becomes WS6 +1A i
Bro this only makes regular WS4 ever so worse OMG. Yet 2.0 WS shills will never accept a single point of WS shouldn't make the other unit useless

>>95894103
A wounded character doesn't need to be assigned a wound, even if it is already wounded.
A sergeant cannot be issued challenges
I am saying [that stuff you said won't work]

>>95894118
You are mentally retarded. There's no such thing as assigning wounds in a challenge. The character was wounded before the challenge and he dies in the challenge because he started it wounded and gets cut to pieces by someone just choosing gotta-go-fast-gambit.

>>95894134
Anon, you are challenging a sergeant. Those guys are neither commanders nor champions. They cannot be challenged unless they are designated as Master Sergeants.
That will not happen. The enemy will rather use Logistical Benefit instead.
But say that sarge was the big stuff. Who are you issuing a challenge with?
A Centurion, or bigger.
That sarge will be killed by Seize anyways. No need to do any sniping tricks beforehand

>Be legion champion (WS 6)
>Be paragon of battle (+1 WS)
>Guard up gambit (+1 WS)
>Laugh at enemy duellist being unable to land a single hit, get +1 on the next focus roll for each time they miss
>Go first next round even with a thunder hammer
>Stop. Hammer time.

>>95894159
NTA but what the fuck are you talking about that wasn't the context at all, we were talking about screwing over slow D2 duelists by using snipers to take off wounds before going in with a fast D1 duelist

>>95894110
There aren't any champions with WS4 that we know of, besides possibly apothecaries and techmarines

The rules so far seem... bad?

>>95894182
Nah.

>>95894171
Going from a 4+ to hit to 5+ to hit isn't the god mode cheat you'd assume, especially since youj have to give up seize to do it

>>95894182
if the rules were good it'd be hard to convince players to burn all their books in 2028 and buy 4th edition's new rulebook and $120-180 of Libers rewritten yet again.

A few questions. 1) Which legions are the most powerful here at the end of 2.0? Is there a general consensus for where all 18 fall or at least a top 3 and bottom 3?
2) Given what we've seen thus far, who stands to gain the most and who is going to get reamed?

>>95894244
I think Fists pretty much topped the list from day 1

Stupidly good legion trait that made them BS2+ on almost all shooting, really good unique units, variety of viable playstyles and they were even relevant in pretty much all the books released during 2.0

Is there an imgur with the leaks?

Or at the very least, does anyone have a list of all the prime slot buff options?

>>95894244
1) Imperial Fists, Dark Angels, and Alpha Legion are up there.

2) No idea, haven't seen all the rules and nothing from the Libers yet so it's impossible to predict right now.

>>95894260
>>95892998 (OP)

>>95894268
Wow I'm retarded, thank you

>>95894260
GET PRIME

>>95894244
I wanna say NL feel like one of the weakest, but they make up for it with fluffy rules and cool models

>>95894275
I'm really hoping each legion has a list of their own prime benefits, it would help make lists feel super different even if they take the same units

>>95894171
>>Go first next round even with a thunder hammer
Or like, just Seize and go with a thunder hammer now? The other guy has a hammer too.
And if they don't, they just won't be killing you lol

>>95894293
The legion armylist has so many units and wargear options that you already see tons of different armies. Specially at events that prioritise narrative play you rarely see the same armylist twice.

>>95894306
There exists a spectrum between damage 1 weapons and damage 3 weapons

>>95894182
Everyone on /hhg/ has already sworn oaths to play TOCHH exclusively. All glory to the Big Mac.

>>95894309
True, but I like the idea of making a unique tactical squad or other core troop unit

Since they've all but said legions will have their own unique detachments, I guess Scars will have bikes/jetbikes in their primary detachment, and that'd be cool to kit out

>>95894313
-3i D2 Power fists?
So, hammers are D3 after all, huh. Pity. I had hoped they were D2 Critical (6+) or something

>>95893568
This is clearly MkIII right? Why is he being marketed as wearing MkII?

>>95890762
>Fragments of Chosen Ru'Than's distinctive armour were later seen as trophies adorning Night Lords armoured units
Very cool. As much as NL love flayed skin and skulls, I think pieces of armour which are identifiable would actually be more damaging for enemy morale.

>>95894322
I think people are assuming that because of the saturnine praetor's hammer, and I don't think that is necessarily the smartest prediction

>>95894322
Anon is just speculating, nobody has seen TH yet.

>>95894326
It's artificer armor, and Mk3 is just Mk2 with more plates on the front

Convergent evolution

>>95894284
NL is one of the strongest...

>>95894182
imo the only bad thing so far is bad plasma

>>95894356
If it's cheap enough, then I kinda get the idea of having rapid fire autocannons on support squads

But honestly, plasma being this catch all weapon that was fantastic against everything was always pretty gay

>>95894356
Tbh if guns for to 2 shots at 24" it wouldn't be that bad.
Blast weapons are more accurate too so plasma cannons might not be terrible either.
Single shot pistols do not sound worth it tho

>>95894391
I suspect Plasma pistols will drop to the same price as Volkite serpentas or hand flamers desu. In fact, it feel like the whole point of these changes was to make plasma the rapid fire equivalent to the disintegrator, like how power Axes are now fast but chancey AP2 compared to power Fists being slow and reliable

>>95893685
No.

>>95894328
>>95894330
It's a guess, indeed. But if Saturnine fists are D3 power fists, maybe Saturnine Concussive Hammers are D3 thunder hammers.
Which means, Hammers might be D2 Criticsl Hit? Could be

>>95894374
I kinda like the idea of the rules 'upping the ante' on the weapon power levels, so to speak

Like in 40k plasma is/was this very powerful, very unstable weapon system that can absolutely ruin your fucking day, but in 30k times it's basically a mid-tier upgrade since there's far more dangerous weapon systems laying around like disintegrators, conversion beamers, phosphex, etc. that are nearly unknown in 40k

Kind of sells the whole 'this is the Imperium's technological golden age' feel, I guess? Like the big cheese weapons of the 41st millenium are just common tech during the HH

Thinking about how my word bearers will be structured.

>Primary Detachment
High Command - Saturnine Praetor Judas, the Risen
Prime Command (Paragon of Battle) - Champion Darius, the Vengeful One
Command - Moritat Hamad, the Painkiller
Command - Tartaros Chaplain Ahaz, the Hellion
Prime Troops (Logistical Benefit) - Tactical Squad, the Children of the Damned
Despoiler Squad I, the Seventh Sons
Troops - Despoiler Squad II, the Blood Brothers
War Machine - Castaferrum Dreadnought Nebuchak, the Beast in Black

>Armored Support
Armor - Sicaran Omega I "Exciter"
Armor - Sicaran Omega II "Defender of the Faith"
Armor - Sicaran Venator I "The Electric Eye"
Armor - Sicaran Venator II "Screaming for Vengeance"

>Tactical Support
Support - Tactical Support Squad I, the Hellraisers
Support - Tactical Support Squad II, the Powerslaves

>Shock Assault
Heavy Assault - Tartaros/Indomitus Terminators, the Godbringers
Heavy Assault - Saturnine Terminators, the Weavers of Sorrow

>Vanguard
Prime Elite (Logistical Benefit) - Veteran Assault Squad, the Redeemers of Souls
Elite - Gal Vorbak, the Saints in Hell
Elite - Gal Vorbak, the Lords of the Last Day
War Machine - Saturnine Dreadnought Jehrorad, the Revelator

And yes, all the saturnine and tactical supports will be armed with plasma. No, I don't care if it's ass now or if the word bearers lose warpfire. I've been influenced by the word bearers armies with all that glowing OSL too much to quit now.

>>95894450
*swallows your moritat whenever I have a headache*

>>95894447
I like that, but without some sort of handwave like "power armor back then was more resistant to plasma" it kinda begs the question why terminators die to plasma in 40k but can wade through it in 30k

So are you building your praetors with hammer and axe, Anons?

>>95894447
that's quite a stupid idea you have. Regular mass-production power armor wasn't any more effective in 30k than in 40k (in fact it was weaker) Plasma is supposed to be insanely dangerous. Making it suck doesn't make other weapons cool, that just makes the game uncool. Stop advocating for the m-she-u policy of trying to break everything that exists because you can't create something new that is actually good so instead you try to just make everything that already exists weak and gay.

>>95894182
It's not that they're bad it's that I don't like them

>>95894458
>why terminators die to plasma in 40k but can wade through it in 30k
everyone in 40k just has their plasma guns set to maximal fire mode+++ and they have no idea how to turn it off, duh.

Also, all their terminator suits are millennia old hand-me-downs that have been patch repared a gazillion times, where in HH that same terminator suit is fresh from the factory

>>95894475
Probably the hammer, though I'm going to see if there's a saturnine centurion first

>>95894478
>Regular mass-production power armor wasn't any more effective in 30k than in 40k
It was in better shape and better maintained, with spare parts way more available
>(in fact it was weaker)
That's outright false, Mk4 was seen as the pinnacle but hard to keep working, Mk7 was a compromise

Unless you mean MkX, in which case Primaris are King baby

>>95894475
I'm not dropping 200 points just to kill 6 regular ass marines in close combat, at most. My saturnine praetor is gonna be rocking that hammer and clobbering dreadnoughts and vehicles into smithereens.

>>95894484
Nta and I don't care about this convo but they can make new terminator armour in 40k. It's just very costly so they aren't swimming in spares.

Will my Siege Breaker still give Phosphex to my Quad Mortars, I wonder.
Or does he go live on my shelf...

>>95894475
Axe, Plasma, and Fist for me, the coolest looking one

>>95894505
I guess that's true. Idk, was just a thought I had, not sure what that other guy was sperging about.

>>95894475
They get a fist and axe normally, all the hammer does is bump the fist from S6 to S8 and gives you critical at the expense of being I1 instead of I2 and +10 points


The axe slaughters normal terminators and other 2+ save dudes with 2W, which is actually pretty neat

>>95894505
It's rare enough that most marine chapters can only muster a few squads of terminators for their 1st company, and even 1st founding chapters can't do their entire 1st company in them except for guys like the Deathwing

You'd think making thick ass suits of armor would be easy compared to making knights (who are absolutely still produced in their questoris patterns) but hey

>>95894514
Yeah that specific pose sold me on the model.

>>95894475
6 fist + disintegrator termies and a praetor in a spartan for a full 24 capacity load of fuck

I don't know if that'll ever actually be good, but hey it's a painting project

>>95894450
We better fucking keep the upgrade to praetors giving them diablorism. At the very least I wanna see what a saturnine librarian can do with biomancy

>>95894572
According to Kingmaker, Knight suits aren't made. Knight Worlds just have a ton of them being handed down like old trucks and cars.

>>95894626
That may very well be true for imperial knights, but almost every forgeworld has their own mechanicus knights that they manufacture for

>>95894572
I forget which book said this but producing one suit of terminator plate is like shitting out 8 leman russes in terms of time and resources. They’ve valuable but not tactically valuable enough for forge worlds to waste the time making dozens of them when the leman russes are able to contribute way more. Atleast a knight is able to handle foes that tanks are gonna have a hard time taking on

>>95894475
hammer, fist, and plasma blaster for sure
also, the wording on this listing does not imply there to be saturnine command squads!

>>95894648
Considering the numbers that leman russes are shit out in and how few terminator suits actually need to be made to keep a chapter's 1st company well stocked, I think they can probably eat the delay of 200-400 russes to have the eternal bonded oaths of a space marine chapter

What if regular power fists are D1

With the severe nerfs to plasma, I really wonder what other weapon stats will look like.

Does someone at GW just have a raging hateboner for plasma? Or are a bunch of weapons nerfed/buffed/point costed funny?

Standard disintegrators have also been omega nerfed, with heavy disintegrators made to take their old place... Actually plasma changes may have been to justify the niche of disintegrators suddenly being a common, spammable weapon. With breaching 4+ plasma would probably be better than disintegrators against their main ap3 targets... god damn GW, please fuck off.

>>95894673
All logistics, manufacturing, and simple scale is completely fucked in terms of the lore, there honestly is no point in thinking too hard about it.

>>95894713
>All logistics, manufacturing, and simple scale is completely fucked in terms of the lore, there honestly is no point in thinking too hard about it.
It's not as bad as say, Battletech, if you just assume the difficulty in making terminator armor/marine power armor is the miniaturization of the reactors necessary for it and the extremely complex interface for connecting to the black carapace

It's not that plasteel is hard to get

>>95894713
Every single weapon has been nerfed compared to its previous effectiveness. Yes, that includes melta. I'm pretty sure the point was just to decrease lethality to drag games out more.

Very new to Horus Heresy. Any advice on what to use as a core for a Thousand Sons force, please?

>>95892998 (OP)
so melta is going to be the anti-MEQ this edition? if i want to start a militia or SA army i will have to awake my inner Jurgen?

>>95894731
>Yes, that includes melta
Melta is better at killing vehicles and now better at killing dreads + terminators

>>95894739
Tactical squads. You can never go wrong with tactical squads. Though recons with asphyx bolters were fun.

>>95894743
Wrong, melta is worse at killing vehicles now. It went from 8+2d6 pen to worse than 8+1 pen (as it needs a 6 to hurt a landraider, it doesn't even glance on 5 like if it was actually strength 9)

I'm hoping these niggas are in the command squad slots and not in the dreadnought slot because I have 3 of these on top of my 3 dreadnoughts.

>>95893043
if it makes you feel any better anon, each enemy unit can only make a single reaction per turn.

>>95894753
I do (unironically) love tactical squads, music to my ears. Thank you, Anon!

>>95894731
Bolters were buffed though. 24" instead of 12" for 60 shots, enjoy the mind-numbing tedious nonsense of rolling entire buckets of dice to pick off 1 terminator.

>>95894739
Tactical squads and rhinos are always a safe bet to hedge on. You also can't go wrong with a predator or two.

>>95894782
one can have like forty or sixty tacticals without being at all overboard about it pretty much regardless of the legion in question as line troops in some number are always called for to work objectives competently
completely safe place to start with them, tsons can have gorgeous paintjobs besides, candy apple metallic/glossy red and all that good stuff

>we wuz kangs and pharaohs and shit

>>95894391
overpriced plasma pistols nobody ever takes is a long standing heresy tradition

>>95894763
Yeah but one pen at half range kills, two at max range, stop shooting flare shielded land raiders from the front
The actual shots needed to kill has gone down significantly, especially if you get a side shot

>>95894782
The more basic marines you have, the cooler you are.

I don't make the rules.

Honestly, nothing is more satisfying to me than massed infantry smashing each other up.

>>95894798
>enjoy the mind-numbing tedious nonsense of rolling entire buckets of dice to pick off 1 wound from a saturnine terminator

Fixed that for you, anon.

>>95894798
Not bad when that one terminator costs 1/5th of the whole 20 man tac squad

>>95894838
massed bolters will shred saturnines if you roll your dice properly (skill issue btw)
until the tactical squad in question is mulched to a man by the retribution incurred of course
you force enough 2+ saves and shit is going to die

>>95894838
Saturnine are a little vulnerable to being bogged down, even with fists 3 saturns w/ sarge only kill 3 tacticals per combat phase

>>95894867
wouldn't a squad of three have six attacks cumulatively at base?

>>95894739
TS Inductii (tax marines bodies) are also great

>>95894798
That does not increase lethality. Versatility yes, but 20 tacticals could already fire 60 shots. But yes, I'll amend my statement, all weapons kept existing lethality or were nerfed. As >>95894763 explained meltas already one shot tanks and they actually still had a good chance to do so outside of melta range, now outside melta range they might as well be Autocannons, and inside melta range their one shot potential was way better considering that a very high chance to pen into a 33% chance to always instakill anything below a superheavy is better than a low Chance to pen followed by only getting to kill Rhinos and Predators. The only Buff is vs the not-vehicles like dreads and speeders, which are going to be a lot less plentiful with loss of talons and squads.

>>95894767
All legion units are apex elites, even ones that were fast attack.

>>95894882
+1 more for sarge

7 attacks at WS4 -> 3.5 hit -> 2.91 wound -> no save (unless apothecary) -> 2.91 dead tacs

>>95894818
>overpriced plasma pistols nobody ever takes is a long standing heresy tradition
Shoutout to the archmagos who can take plasma pistols for 5 points or take the objectively superior archeotech pistol for...5 points

I have to say, 30k takes me back to being in my late teens/twenties playing 3/3.5/4e 40k and the sense of magic and excitement that seemed to permeate the game. Appreciate the general and all the help you've given me so far.

>>95894799
Thank you Anon. I do need some Rhinos. Probably should get the Heresy era versions right? I doubt that the more "modern" versions are going to be appreciated by my opponents? Predators are amazing and that is music to my ears. Love tanks.
>>95894806
That is awesome, I love infantry heavy forces. Mostly a thing that stuck with me from being too poor to afford vehicles when I started 40k and instead having 30-40 foot sloggers on the field charging ahead with malicious intent. Now I run 60 classic Necron warriors and 30 CSM in my main lists. The Sons heresy scheme is gorgeous. Not sure how I would pull off that candy apple metallic red though.
>>95894830
I agree completely. Infantry are love. Having 10-20 dudes per squad just blasting each other or charging into melee is insanely appealing to me.
>>95894891
Reading up on Inductii now, thank you. Saw a batrep with Inductii used in large numbers and while I was not entirely sure what they were - although context clues made me guess correctly, it triggered a primal part of my brain that wanted to run that myself.

>tq
Grav weaponry
>glow up
No idea
>>95893009
Gets hot autocannon isn't the worst place in the world to be.

>>95894928
>Probably should get the Heresy era versions right?
Would definitely be preferable; personally I just think the deimos pattern shit looks better full stop anyway. I don't think you'll get hung for using the other versions or anything but yeah.
>Predators are amazing and that is music to my ears. Love tanks.
You might enjoy this new edition then since it seems like vehicles have gotten quite the buff up and become far more durable than last edition

>>95894897
Thanks anon, not doubting you but where can I read about that being the case?

So it seems like you have to chose between 1 of these three and there is no way to get more? I have a command squad and some legion specific units so I have to pick which one of these to drop from my army? (I don't have a primarch for that other detachment for command squads).

>>95895027
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/itpl4ywx/rules-in-the-age-of-darkness-how-to-build-an-army-in-the-new-edition/
>Army Vanguard: Elite units such as Veterans and Legion-specific specialists

rampager apothecary

>>95895035
Logistical Benefit for exactly 1 command squad

>>95895035
can't you just use the logistical benefit prime trait to grab one of the units you want? It's not like you'll need 3 different retinues

>>95895041
Nice

>>95894858
>6s to wound
>2+ save
>3 wounds each

Yeah ok anon, I am sure it's easy with weighted dice.

>ap3 flamers
>can use said flamers when charging/being charged with whatever that new rule is called

Ogey.

>>95893560
You retards autism'd all the fun out of the game so they need to be written like a legal document, the same thing happened to kill team

I need not fear saturnine, for in the confines of a zone mortalis their considerable bulk will surely be their undoing and render them nigh unuseable

>>95895087
s i n g l e f i l e

>>95894818
My solar aux sergeants all take plasma pistol and power fist. It generally ends up killing them, but they still have fun firing it and that is what counts.

>>95894928
Mars pattern tanks are era appropriate, but if you're doing it just to try save money, people can usually smell it.

>>95894838
>>enjoy the mind-numbing tedious nonsense of rolling entire buckets of dice
It takes like two seconds. You aren't one of those schmucks with only ten or fiftedn dice, right? Right?

>>95895087
Wouldn’t a humble boulder be their undoing. Or being tipped over.

>>95894514
Why does everything look better in IW colors?

>>95895093
>>95895149
More so talking about the fact they have 5" movement and can't use their deep strike to flank nearly as effectively as they would in a normal game compared to ZM. Also walls basically making the plasma bombards a wasted weapon pick

>>95895141
you have to get all 60 to roll somewhere they can be read, then actually have to count how many hit and miss, then how many wound or fail. It's literally impossible to do in 2 seconds. So you're just being a complete dumbfuck.

Do we already know all the weapon options for big dread?

>>95895176
He has legs. He can probably stomp

>>95895176
two guns lmao
maybe you'll be able to double up on the bombard or disintegrator but looking at how the new kits are structured there's basically zero room for wiggle besides
no melee option
gg

>>95895172
Skill issue

>>95895178
>>95895181
So it's literally just a copy-paste of the Termies but scaled up? That seems lazy

>>95895045
>>95895052
Ah, forgot, tyty.

How is 30k when it comes to /yourdudes/? Are custom color schemes and chapters/warbands frowned upon like they are in traditional historical games?

>>95895206
oh and they have nipple guns in two flavors as well or somesuch iirc
and the cannons might be of a higher strength gradient than the terminator counterparts but yeah they're kinda just saturnine suits but hyooge

likely with enough inherent strength to kill this and that in melee but i sincerely doubt there will be a fist for it or whatnot

anyways both the terminator and praetor sheets as of late show very little for options in loadout so it might continue the trend

>>95895217
There were a myriad of chapters within the legions with crazy schemes and Black Shields exist. Go nuts.

>>95895228
>There were a myriad of chapters within the legions with crazy schemes
Big false. If there were, you'd posted non-Blackshield non-black painted alternative Legion schemes.

These threads are so fast; I haven't been able to keep up in so long

>>95895217
30k is in some ways more friendly to /yourdudes/ because while your guys need to be from a legion (if they’re not black shield renegades), the legions themselves were very widespread and diverse. All the guys who would eventually make the 2nd (and even 3rd) foundings were originally in the legions, so if anything you can make the origins of /yourchapter/ from 40K in 30k with a varied color scheme

Every legion had traitors and loyalists, so even if you wanted to do something like traitor ultramarines it’s fully supported and canon

Ngl I thought this was going to be the equivalent of a saturnine chainfist, not an AP3 flamer.
Do all templates have the Panic (X) rule?

>>95895351
I mean, it looks like a flamer, pilot light and everything. It also looks like it'd break if you tried to hit someone with it
>The sidearm is deadlier than the plasma bombard
I am laffin

>3 saturnines are basically just worse in melee than 5 regular cataphractii for the same cost(ish)

The guns are neat but needing to stand still to shoot two guns is kinda gay, and spending 400 points to get 13 S6 power fist attacks is pretty underwhelming, even if the AP3 flamer is pretty cool

>>95895340
Tell me of an alternate legion scheme that isn't pre-primarch (e.g.: Luna Wolves) or black (e.g.: Justaerin, Templars, Ebon Keshig, Morkais, Red Hand Ravagers, Nemesis chapter).
I'll tell you two: the Karaoghlanlar and the Deliverers. They're both red.
Go ahead. Hit me with all that legion non-black post-primarch variety, I'm calling (You) out.

>>95895397
The black books straight up say the alpha legion can be dark blue, purple, sapphire, black, silver or grey

>>95895397
This is the dumbest UM AKSHUALLY in this thread’s history

>>95895181
Are you retarded? All of the weapons are on one Sprue and have magnet holes just like the contemptor in AoD there is absolutely Room for more weapon options on the dread

>>95895380
The power fist on Saturnines is a sidearm, anon. The main thing is the gun. Unlike Cataphractii, where the main thing is the hammer.
I do think Saturnines should have Fire Protocols (2) base and be done with it. Terminators are shock troops. Even if they waddle at 5" per turn, their roles are:
1. Move forwards
2. Kill
>>95895377
>>The sidearm is deadlier than the plasma bombard
Fucking unbelievable

>>95895397
>Karaoghlanlar

you can't just imagine words by putting one letter after another

>>95895397
>LEGIONS DONT HAVE ALT COLORS
>NO THOSE COLORS DONT COUNT
You’re a faggot

>>95895404
The black books also note that is a rarity among the legions. That pretty much only the AL did that, and it was deliberately done to mess with onlookers

>>95895217
homebrew generic marines are treated with apathy or pity, more than hatred (hatred is saved for primaris.) The only non-retcon fights in the heresy of any importance were legion vs legion. Some tiny scraps of nameless renegades fought but they were entirely insignificant in scope - nothing they did mattered to the story.

If you paint your marines orange so that you can play them as ultramarines on monday and dark angels on tuesday, you'll not be seen as clever, but a coward incapable of being worthy to pick an actual legion.

In the words of Xarl of the Night Lords
>Each of them openly carried their weapons drawn and ready, mirroring the posture of the Red Corsairs ahead.

>“Halt,” the squad leader demanded. His horned helm regarded each of the Night Lords in turn. “What brings you to Hell’s Iris?”

>Xarl snorted, resting his immense chainblade on his shoulder. “I have a question of my own. Why do you thin-blooded little mongrels not kneel before warriors of the First Legions?”

>>95895427
Backpedal faster nigger

>>95895423
I respect those Red Sons of Death guys. They look like White Scars who are all scar
>>95895424
If you only have three shirts (the old one, the normal one and the black one) then you have 0 range.

>>95895441
Your statement was wrong and you’re now seething and coping trying to spin it as cleverness, when you’re just a histrionic faggot getting mad over a game you don’t actually play

>>95895438
Can't, I'm not red enough
>>95895443
Then go ahead and FUCKING PROVE.ME WRONG.
Post colorful pics full of those post Primarch non black alternate schemes you parrot about.
What stops you? Aaaaw not gonna "stoop down to my level"? Boo hoo. Post said pics or be done with it

>>95895397
nta but
>name an alt legion color scheme
>except not any of these alt legion color schemes
>and nothing pre-primarch either
>oh whats that, cant name anything? heh looks like I win fag

>>95895351
Aesthetically it resembles a flamethrower, but you see it actually releases a steady stream of mcguffinite particles which stream into the 99% of empty space between all matter before the actinite field conjoins into a plot armor matrix, violently separating that matter to its consituent parts. This technology was only recently rediscovered in the forge world Peigh-2-Weenum by an expedition led by Vulkan.

>>95895252
Why would you post something so blatantly wrong? Pale Nomads, ashen claws, revenant legion are three off my head. All the different TS sects pre Magnus. All the black shields in that recent article.

>>95895087
>Saturnine takes up the entire hallway
>Can't shoot past it to the more vulnerable tactical marines
>Can't get out of its range because of short hallways
>Can't pile the dead in its path because it's just disintegrating everyone
>Can't close the door because it's shorting out the control panels with its fists
These guys would be great in boarding parties. They'd suck in open terrain or moderate inclines.

>>95895469
I think a magical mcguffin flamethrower so powerful it dissolves ceramite (the load-bearing structure of spaceship walls that keeps your entire squad from immediately getting sucked into space and immediate death) is on the second tier of the worst possible weapons to use in space combat.

The only tier worse are dedicated anti-tank weapons like meltas and lascannons.

>>95895464
>Pale Nomads, ashen claws
Both of these are post Primarch too. Both even survived to 40k.

>>95895456
Apologies anon, but it was necessary. You are right indeed, it was very retarded to be a bitch about it. Almost as dumb as sorting trash in search for a diamond. But I am a firm believer of Cunningham's law. Don't believe it if you don't want to. Don't respond if you don't wish to.
Be at ease, I won't pollute the thread any longer.
>>95895464
Thank you, anon. Pale Nomads. That's the name. Ashen Claws are both black and not a legion, but Pale Nomads fit the narrow criteria presented. Thanks. May that the others had been like you. I'm going to assume the Pale Nomads look like that anon's traitor RG, thanks.

>>95895475
Nah the walls are thick enough, I'm sure.

>>95895469
>kill a single saturnine terminator
>it's body blocks up the hallway and turns the conga line behind him into a shooting gallery for the enemy and they have to pull a retreat
>it also explods when it dies
>by the time it could reach anywhere the enemy has more than enough time to amass a sizeable counterattack or ambush instead of being under pressure from fast moving marines
>"short hallways" means short range weapons like meltaguns get more of a chance to pop them and for people to jump onto them and beat them to death
>said saturnine getting his ass beat can't get any help from behind him since his fat ass is blocking the way
yeah nice boarding party bro

>>95895493
Nope, one hit to the control valve or the fuel tank and your entire squad is thrown to go star sailing.

>>95895488
Pale Nomads are grey. Ashen Claws are dark grey(mechanicus grey equivalent) and red. Both are a chapter of the XIXth. Deliverers are derived frona mix of Pale Nomads and general Terran XIXth.

Ashen Claws not being a legion doesn't make sense. I'm >>95895228 and I said chapters within the legion. Revenant Legion also counts. There was a weird DG chapter too I forget the name of.

>>95895502
>>it's body blocks up the hallway
>>it also explods when it dies
Looks like the problem solved itself

>>95895502
>Set ceramite blast doors to 50% height and then destroy the controls so they can never be raised. Freely kill an infinite number of saturnine trash designs as they are too tall to shoot under the gap while the enemy can quickly kneel or go prone beyond flamethrower distance and melta/plasma them 100 times freely.

>>95895517
>disintegrates door (av12 lol)

Are custodes a casual faction in third

>>95895527
you lost 2 saturnine in the time it took to take out the door. The enemy retreats to the next door. There are 1000 doors on the ship. You had 6 saturnines, now you have 4.

>>95895511
The Ashen Nomads aren't considered Blackshields no longer associated with the bulk of the RG?
>DG chapter
Oof I'd love to hear about those. The fluff I read about the DG said unlike other legions, Mortarion didn't like separating the legion and often traveled with the bulk of it. Except that time with Typhon

>>95895505
Anon they have mag boots and thrust capable power packs.

>>95895537
>The Ashen Nomads aren't considered Blackshields no longer associated with the bulk of the RG?
Depends on when on the timeline you ask. They went renegade post Corax. They aren't Black Shields either, just renegades that wear their colors with pride.

>>95895527
Not even av12, av10. And given that we. Haven't seen anything about needing to charge a target you shot at, you can charge those cocky melta gunners (likely disintegrating them before you even get there with volley) afterwards

>>95895549
there's not a thing in existence saturnine could ever charge. They move at half the speed of every other space marine while also having zero agility and not fitting anywhere

>>95895536
Except they dont lose any because they *teleport behind u* and smash you all, blocking you from retreating past any doors.

>>95895554
you lost your entire squad as being too fat to fit anywhere, they teleported inside of the walls and doors and floor and ceiling and entirely stopped living. Bad End.

Plasma Guns should simply be S7 AP3 D1 Rapid Fire. No Rending or Breaching or any of that shit

>>95895566
Well they're not. Better buy one of those disintigrator sprues and an extra squad so you don't get left behind :^)

so I decided to watch "kill horus during his heresy" because of pic rel quote alone, on piratebay of course, and 99% of running time is as expected of gw. borderlien zero action, obnoxious characters and literal seconds of actual content. so tell me, o ye 4 people in here who read BL books, are writing quality and style in books the same compared to all animations? as in, are personalities and action time shit in books?

>>95895566
You mean AP2:
Whoever has 1W, they also have a 3+ and would be killed anyways
Whoever has 2W or more, well they can survive an AP2 single D shot. Especialmente anything heavier than a Veteran, which will often have at least a 5++, so it's not that oppressive.
Full AP2 plasma is viable. It won't break the game: vehicles can't even explode this time around

>>95895574
Titandeath was a 400 page novel about the Beta Garmon campaign with the focus being a loyalist reaver titan princeps and a traitor warlord titan princeps.
It had about four chapters of titan combat. When the time for the actual Titandeath came about it was maybe 2 chapters one of which belonged to Sanguinius. The resolution of the Titandeath battle was "Horus dropped a space station on the battlefield and everyone died except grandma"

>>95895610
And I realize that doesn't answer your question but that's about the most I can contribute.

>>95892998 (OP)
Isn't plasma meant to be anti-MEQ

>>95894450

I fuckin hate World Bearers but Judas Priest(little Maiden?) themed WB? You might have just won me over anon, at least for yourdudes. That is a cool as fuck concept. Love Priest. Love Marines. ‘Ate Warhammer players taste in Metal (everyone agrees on Bolt Thrower but then it’s just garbage beyond that). I hope you start every game with ‘Let Us Prey/Call for the Priest’…..“Call for the Prieeeest I’m DYYYYYYYY-IN!!!!” Hell the whole ‘Sinner’ album would be perfect.

Cheers, would love to see photos.

>>95895641
No it was anti everything originally - the safe mode was S7 AP-2 D4 damage, and Rhinos for example were T9 3+save 10w

>>95895641
Sorry kid, it's anti geq now.

How long you think it'll be before they start talking about Legion traits? That's most of what I want to know at this point.

>>95895711
Not a thing anymore, now all you get is different prime slots for each legion

So will melee Veterans with WS5 be squatted then?

>>95895719
So gay, they remove rites of war too probably and take away so much flavour

>>95895732
They'll be assault veterans with different weapon options.
And this will probably render my pitiful army illegal.

>>95895748
I hope not, very annoying how a new edition just destroys kitbashes

>>95895748
What the fuck is up with top left guy's bolter? Love the other guys though, they're quirky

>>95895756
He's holding it?

>>95895762
but it's... white? with the outline of the magwell sharpie'd on?

>>95895768
I was just neat with the recess wash. For once.

>>95895719
Can't say they're gone til we know what this Allegiance trait is

>>95895808
Allegiance is Traitor/Loyalist

>>95895397
I did some of these WS Destroyers up in my own alt scheme, lots of fun but I really need to finish them off

>>95895822
Did you make a stormseer too?

>>95894475
>only three melee weapon options, ones out of the box at that

>>95895894
There's a lot of customization though, you can have Hammer + Axe for example

>>95895898
only for the HQ praetor

>>95895917
well yeah, they're gun platforms. You don't see people complaining about the Tyrant Termies lacking melee weapon options

>>95895839
Yup made 3 custom stormnseers. Will post a pic once I'm home.

>>95895922
If you're the anon I replied to, you just backtracked and moved the goal post.

>>95895922
Nta,I complain about Tyrant Termies melee option (twin claws) not being free. Twin claws cost the very same as the firsts they are already equipped with. They should be free

>>95893606
>humans are capable
Sure, but that's not it.
>crying about Jewtube
Look man I use GPT to generate policy documents at work and the overt mid sentence capitalisation is 100% a feature of AI generated legalese texts

I hope y'all enjoy No Model No Rules

Cause those Saturnine entries allow only exactly what's in the box. Not even a Vexilla.

>>95894475
Hammer and axe, with some conversion for both to be smaller, one-handed weapons. Two melee weapons don't seem to give +1A anymore, but the added versatility between the terminator-mincing axe and the dreadnought-busting hammer seems pretty useful. As for the plasma… eh, it's not great, but it is at least some ranged option.
That is, asssuming the Saturnine don't get access to legion wargear.

>>95895161
>plasma bombards a wasted weapon pick
Plasma bombards being plasma makes plasma bombards a wasted weapon pick, the ZM rules just add to that.

>>95896114
God dammit, I hate fact that they took single picture from single story where Salamanders had unique design terminators, one that even Iron Hands did't recognized, only to turn it into Vulkan made saturnine, thing that was well known pattern.
Also hate how they changed it from being just terminator pattern with diferent look into being 30k version of 40k centurion warsuit pretending to be terminator armour.

>the Plasma rules
The Lion does not approve of this.

>>95896229
Loyality is it's own reward.

>>95896235
It's easier to remain loyal if I can kill some niggas.

>>95896229
Maybe the lion shouldn't have been such a one trick pony
>muh acid heavy bolters
Don't see a Legion unit with models for it, guess that means it wasn't important enough for lion to specialize into it :^)

>>95896242
If you need reason to remain loyal you weren't loyal in first place.

>>95896109
>doomsaying retard
Show me the Libers then I'll believe you

>>95895898
Yeah I found that weird. Though I assume he can't have the funny template weapon on the fist, do we know if +1 A from dual-wielding is still a thing?

>>95896249
>Acid Heavy Bolters
What are you on about m8

>>95896319
NTA but old special equipment of first legion?

Do sons of horus have anything like 40ks dark pacts?

>>95896386
No because they are not on chaos kool-aid yet.
They are on our dad can beat granddad kool aid.

Potential new player. Any rules leaks for Solar aux yet? Anything pointing to them not being shit this edition?

>>95896435
the only good news is that they'll have rules at launch, so there's hope they're not an afterthought

>>95895719
>>95895816
>>95895808
If the square brackets on [Allegiance] shows that it's variable, wouldn't that mean that [Legiones Astartes] is too? It's basically just a different format for Legiones Astartes (X).

>>95896229
Maybe we'll get something even better in return? Definitely not on copium here.

>>95895917
Yeah, the one being replied to here >>95895894 is the profile for the praetor.

>>95895413
man it'd be nice to one day just build everything out the box, but no I had to pick WE and commit to drilling 30 hands for chainaxes.

>>95896526
?? The main chainaxe kit has the axe in hand. Don't tell me you're using that omega ancient chain axe set without hands anon.

>>95896546
The 2 handed spear is really cool

>>95896435
Plasma being utter dogshit means less people will bring it in general, which is an indirect buff for SA, as rapid-fire/pie-plate AP4 is the bane of your existence.
Vehicles being sturdier is also good for SA, but lacking your own repairmen to remove Status effects from your vehicles you'll need a bunch of Mechanicum allies.
The challenge phase doesn't really mean shit to you, since no-one but your legate has any relevant duelist capabilities.

>>95896549
Thanks anon, making progress. In the new melee kit, I like the spear more than the other weapons, as the others like the axe are kinda silly large.

I hate doing all the metal bits on a whole squad of guys which is what i am doing now. God damn shoulder trim drains my will to live. Although mk.5/6 thankfully spares me that atleast.

>>95896319
Once upon an age, in the olden days, the before times. Heavy Bolter ammo with S2+ Poison and APd6.

The core of my army was meant to be Sniper Vets with a pair of Acid Heavy Bolters. Life spat upon my plans.

>>95896546
Where are those falcatas from? They look cool as fuck.

>>95895413
More weapon options coming, the rules for which will be released in a DLC book alongside the sprue. we're No Model No Rules now, baby.

>>95896574
Trims were absolutely exhausting to me, it's why I kind of stopped painting red butchers.
That said, I always hated batch painting, but weirdly enough, I did enjoy painting WE the most, because I just love their colour scheme

>>95896592
Having a really pleasing shade of blue also helps

>>95896435
> Any rules leaks for Solar aux yet?
LoS Blasts without scatter
>Anything pointing to them not being shit this edition?
no ID from big S hits

>>95896546
it's my tism the chainaxes I like have the wrong hands

>>95896587
I assume that's a falax blade autocorrect, but they're just the standard rampager ones.

Also this is my first exposed head I've painted since I was a kid... I'm actually pleasantly happy with it, even if it's far from perfect.

>>95896599
RIP then, you have chosen pain, just like a true world eater.

>>95896592
>>95896596
Looking good anon, have some finished world eater lads.

Thus is now a world eater thread.

>>95896613
If you're curious by a chance about the true brass trim, it's a mix I made from Vallejo metal colours.
5 drops of gold, 1 drop of copper 2 drops of burnt iron and 2 drops of silver

>>95896621
They way I do my Metallica, is it do silver for ALL the metal areas, then go back with a contrast paint i forget the name of for the brass parts - I only use actual gold paints for highlighting etc

>>95896644
I saw people do metallics that way yeah, but I never tried it, as I am just not a fan of contrast paints that much
Even the Xpress Heretic Turquoise on my SoH are applied via airbrush lol

>>95896644
Could you post the paint if you find it? That brass is lovely. You use a bright silver I pressume?

>>95893685
He did but then the building collapsed on them.

>>95896698
Nta, but if I were to guess it's like sand golem from speedpaints

>>95895610

What was the GOOD Titan Legions fighting Each Other Book?
Well, better than Titandeath anyway.
The one set in 40k and had a sideplot involving a clockwork toymaker selling toy Titans?

>>95896698
Sure, pic related.

I mix the two silvers. Duralumimium flows great but is just a little too thin on its own.

After the dune colour, and oil washes, I highlight with those 2 gold colours (mainly the Dwarven gold), or the lighter silvers in the same range, for silver metallics.

>>95896698
>>95896761
Also yes, it's a very bright silver at the start, and basically looks awful until the wash stage.

>>95896660
Yeah that's fair. The only things I use contrasts for are these brass colours, and as the base cost for leather details like on chainaxe grips etc

Quick question: apparently the 40K Death Guard marines come with these baller helmets.
Would you shit and piss yourself in impotent autistic rage if I used them for my Mortus Poisoners?

>>95896778
I would. For the glory of Nurgle.

>>95896613
world eater thread continues
for the XIIth

>>95896778
Do it, they're /yourdeathguard/ Anon.

>>95896778
Do it, just know that the kit only comes with a few of those so you're better off hitting up bits resellers if you want to make a big squad, or a proonter

>>95896778
only if you don't paint the lenses as sunglasses

>>95896719
it's only a part of the book but the legio audax stuff in Betrayer is fantastic

>>95896788
Any tips to weather armour like that? Looks incredible.

All these World Eaters look super sweet, anons.

>>95896816
dont know how universal this experience is but i find when sponge chipping the paint can sometimes dry before even getting to the model so i dampen my sponge just a tiny bit before weathering, helps a ton to get the right amount of scuffs and marks

also oil washes and streaks all the way

Any Flamer rule leaks?

Tacticals based, which one do I work on next?
TSS with rotor cannons, or HSS with lascannons?

>>95896889
Flamers force a routing test as long as it causes even a single wound, supposedly on top of the tests taken for 25% casualties. 's pretty good. A single hand- or combi-flamer has a decent chance to force a test even on marines; massed flamers and especially high-strength flame weapons that reliably wound make every failed save a potential retreat. It will be interesting to see if there are any Ld-reducing skills to add to that.

>>95896937
I pray they remove rerollable armor saves

>>95896937
Fear reduces all stats, cool, int, willpower and Ld, kind of hilarious that NL can physically make their enemies dumber by being near them

>>95896788
Fellow armour mark mixer, based anon.

World eaters centurions, where you at?

>>95896944
You would also have a hard time repairing a car if there was a guy covered in other people's skin within a few feet of you

>>95896806
Probably could get away with the good old bluestuff mold

>>95896833

I wonder if WE still have +1A as their trait
Cuz if no one else gets +1A on the charge and having 2 melee weapons doesn't give it to you either, +1A is an absolutely brutal trait compared to every other legion

>>95896989
I still miss +1 WS in challenges. It was fluffy and fun, but would be OP as balls with the 2.0 WS table. Oh well.

I am a simple man, I just want to spam WE shocktroops like fucking gaunts.

>>95893725
>Artificer Chainsword
S+1, Ap-, Shred(5+), Breaching(5+)

>>95894284
NL are only weak if you play them how GW wants you to play them (using their special units and unique weapons). Theyre plenty strong if you play how you SHOULD play them, which is as a ranged army that abuses night fighting and outnumbering rules.

>>95894306
>And if they don't, they just won't be killing you lol
>finishing blow
Anon...

>>95894450
Absolutely based and kino.

>>95895380
Yes, theyre worse in melee, theyre also a lot better at shooting and a lot tougher vs shooting.

Its a tradeoff, theyre not meant to be flat out better than other terminators.

>>95896114
What we could have had

>>95897049
Raptors fuck, though

>>95897049
Which desu is still fluffy for NLs given their MO is, "well if you'd beat me in a fair fight why would I ever fight fair?"

>>95897049
Correct. Though Night Fighting is gone in dumbed-down 3E. And if GW takes away the +1 to wound outnumbering trait and changes it to some stupid chaos knights style leadership gimmick, then NL will actually be the weakest.

Base size for Saturnine Terminators?

>>95897098
*oh, and even if they keep the outnumbering, NL are nerfed this edition by virtue of vehicle squadrons being dumbed-down out of the game. That was the only thing carrying Night Lords tanks.

>>95897098
I still can't believe they're actually removing nightfighting. Its such a bizarre feature to remove.

>>95897087
>Raptors fuck, though
Raptors have very high damage into the sort of soft targets that you probably dont need help killing. Theyre also very expensive and fragile. Theyre the best special troops NL have, but the lack of reliable Ap2 (or good Ap2 rather, power axes arent it) or 2+ armor really hurts your dudes. Means they dont want to fight other legion elites (go put them up vs dawnbreakers, cry)

>>95897098
Who knows, maybe night fighting becomes a special legion rule for NL and RG (AL?) where they can force it on the enemy always. Maybe their trait expands to "+1 to wound vs any enemy unit with a status effect", could be pretty solid, maybe its something else entirely who knows. We also dont know exactly how strong or weak LD shenanigans are in the game yet, maybe having a free -1 aura to mental stats on top of fear and whatever else is actually kind of busted now. Flamers cause panic after all now.

>>95897110
Yea, that kinda sucks. But on the other hand vehicles can be pinned and shit now. So theyre maybe still decent at killing tanks.

>Night fighting now gone
>But make it so Night Lords force the Night fighting rules on a dice roll at the start of each new turn
>Free preysight for all NL models
I might like it, would still be crap though

>>95897120
Its more likely to be "for the first X turns of the game, night figthing" or something.

>>95897123
Nah just make it every turn (1st is always night) until they fail a dice roll

I can't believe they want to bring back City Fighting of all things but they remove basic night fighting rules...

>>95897127
maybe its just always night, maybe preysight remains an upgrade but just gives +1 to hit against whatever you have +1 to wound. Who fucking knows, dooming or wishcasting feels a bit premature at this point.

>>95897114
>>Raptors fuck, though
>Raptors have very high damage into the sort of soft targets that you probably dont need help killing. Theyre also very expensive and fragile. Theyre the best special troops NL have, but the lack of reliable Ap2 (or good Ap2 rather, power axes arent it) or 2+ armor really hurts your dudes. Means they dont want to fight other legion elites (go put them up vs dawnbreakers, cry)

I run them with a Moriat and chainglaives so they're all instant death rending at initiative. One squad will kill 5 termies on average.

>>95897109
80mm

>>95897133
Why? Night fighting never made any sense as being significant on the battlefields of m31 while city fighting is like 90% of heresy battles. NL also have plenty of niche just handing out Ld modifiers.

>>95897120
it'd be funny if Night Lords are the only faction in game which can fight at Night.

Raven Guard the stealth faction painted black
>wtf mate?!"
Night Lords
"if you wanted to fight at Night, should've put your name on it and called dibs"
Raven Guard
"I'm so oppressed, this is going in my diary when I get back to my room!"

>>95897180
leadership modifiers have never been a viable niche at any point in the last 30 years you cockgoblin.

>>95897180
I always viewed NL as the communications disruption legion. Like, even if the opponent doesn't get scared by it, their communication channels being flooded by torture footage and audio is still very disruptive.

>>95897194
against random imperium hobos that works. Space marines simply change the wifi password and their communications work fine, so that's a very useless gimmick.

It only worked once when NL captured a satellite filled with a full astropath choir and forced them to stare into a navigator's third eye and scream their deaths through the network. But 99.9% of battlefields are not astropathic choir relay stations, whereas night falls basically everywhere in the universe.

>>95897109
For a point of reference, Aquilon Terminators are on 50mm bases. They're at the very least going to be that.

>>95897216
>Space marines simply change the wifi password and their communications work fine
Theres countless instances showing that no, that doesent happen.
Jamming communications with scrapcode and junk is something that is constantly brought up and constantly has an effect, disrupting forces and hindering the response.

>It only worked once when NL captured a satellite filled with a full astropath choir and forced them to stare into a navigator's third eye and scream their deaths through the network
Thats something entirely different. One is "disrupting communications to hinder the foe", the other is "psychic WMD"

>>95897114
>Means they dont want to fight other legion elites

Exactly! You are supposed to bully WEAKER enemies, not enemies that are on par or stronger.
Hit and run, large unit vs small unit. NL must play like the cowardly scum they are.

>>95897190
>leadership modifiers have never been a viable niche at any point in the last 30 years you cockgoblin.
Good thing leadership has been expanded this time and is even more important.

>>95897246
bad thing because it hasn't. Splitting one leadership stat into 3 doesn't mean the tests become any harder to pass over and over again, nor that the effects actually matter.

>>95897244
I get that, but if all you do is kill tactical marines, you probably dont need epensive legion elites. Theres lots of things that will shred power armor just as well without the risk of blowout.

>>95897194
Night Lords do a bunch of other shit, but everyone focuses on "lol look at how spooky they are! They doesn't work ok marines!" while ignoring the part where three claws have already invaded your infrastructure and you haven't noticed how quiet your comms have been because you're too busy laughing at the bat wings sticking out from behind the rock. Then suddenly something explodes behind you and you see smoke coming the command station and suddenly the troops you had pinned in front of you are rapidly advancing. You're a Marine. Are you afraid? No. Are you concerned? You should be.

>>95897253
where is the sadistic fun in that

>>95897246
Inb4 GW introduces a Chill USR that makes you autopass CL tests and all the new shit has it.

>>95897244
unfortunately if they make them the leadership gimmick faction, weaker enemies than nightlords will not exist. Everything the enemy fields will be on par or stronger.

>>95897260
Well we know that saturnines dont.

>>95897259
In winning.

>>95897260
stuff like Iron Hands is gonna just laugh at leadership tests and then when you finally deal zero damage and inflict 2 or 3 status on a tank, a Battlesmith(2-3) just walks over and instantly removes 2-3 status and NL are back on step 1.

>>95897263
>Everything the enemy fields will be on par or stronger.
cultists, auxilia :-)
>>95897268
NL don't win, they make people suffer horribly and then get their asses kicked for it by other legions who think that loyalty is its own reward

>>95897194
a communications disruption can mean only one thing: invasion

>>95897263
Okay, but the leadership gimmick did actually work in 2.0. Pinning could be very powerful, stacking modifiers to repeatedly fuck with people worked. Telepathy librarians were great.

I dont know if it will work as well in 3.0 (night fighting is gone, and thats one of the elements to making it work) but it was absolutely an approach that worked. Although speaking of rules we havent seen: stubborn. So maybe fear is just sufficiently better to the point where you dont need night fighting as much.

"LD gimmicks" arent supposed to win the game. NL never have, never will, and never should, win purely off the back of having some sort of fear gimmick or whatever else. They also probably wont in 3.0.

"LD gimmick" means they get a bonus to using LD elements to skew the other parts of the game in their favor. Which has worked and probably will continue to work in 3.0. Fear + panic causing flamers anyone? The ability to inflict status effects is now very powerful for crippling someone in melee, it makes a squad I1. You can now make peer engagements bloodbaths because you get to hit first, if NL get bonuses to making that happen? Then thats an entirely viable legion trait.

>>95883473
>reading the WarCom article and the "ninth moon" thing has me stumped

I think it's a Dune reference
>Ix was the ninth planet in the star system Alkalurops. The Ixian economy depended on manufacturing complex machinery, which sometimes flouts the moral-juridical proscriptions of the Butlerian Jihad. The inhabitants of Ix were known collectively as the Ixians.
>The planet's name originated with a misinterpretation of the Roman numeral IX (9).

>>95896937

That space wolf pdf unit with hand flamers might be a good laugh then if they survive the edition change

>>95897271
>stuff like Iron Hands is gonna just laugh at leadership tests
Why? They werent any better at it in previous editions. They had UNITS that were high LD (like medusan immortals) but the legion itself wasnt immune to pinning or panic or whatever.

>>95897324
Twin hand flamer destroyers.

>>95897326

Death guard are going to get something for this though, guaranteed

>>95896937
Sisters of silence with flamers and compression tanks. Hoo boy

Speaking of NL and flamers, contenkar with their heavy flamers might see some use now. Plus volley fire is a big boon for their fuckass volkite.

Post models

>>95897367

>>95897367
I still haven't done much work on the sponson weapons since this was taken.

>>95892998 (OP)
>TQ
Melta

>>95897377

>>95897072
halp

>>95897420
Cipher?

>>95897367

>>95897423
yep, the old metal model.

>>95897420
I wonder if I should carefully remove the chained skull and attach it to some Night Lords model instead. Any reason for a DA champion to carry a skull trophy?

>>95897437
no way, echoes trophies from beast hunting on old Caliban. Plus. what better way to own and humilate some groid you loahted then to drag his skull around with you?

>>95897428
The fucks he doing here then.

>>95896778
>>95896806
>>95896968
Just do what the designer of that kit did for his personal army and make them out of the backs of MkVII heads.

>>95897452
shooting with both hands

>>95897452
Crusading. For the Emperor.

Turbo's crying

Ronnie's malding

>>95897367
Sir yes sir!

>>95897543
>he put the waist on backwards

Sprues and shit

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/bgqbjojp/saturnine-dreadnought-kit-focus-the-biggest-beast-in-the-new-boxed-set/

>>95897586
>no melee weapon
it's over
>ranged weapons are on their own sprue
it's not over?

>>95897586
Sigh, I am sitting on a bunch of stuff that I want to assemble and paint, GW, I wish to see the legion rules, not this bloated mini and its options that I will absolutely NEVER every buy.

>>95897586
I hate "centrepiece models" so much...

>>95897603
brother you are literally playing the game GW made centerpiece models for

>>95897603
with reversed shoulder pads it will be a fine centre ash tray.

>>95897595
Theres no annoucement of melee weapons, so there probably arent any.

>>95897586
The unit confuses me. Its a ranged only super-heavy dread that is (presumably) very slow and has guns that are best at close range? What?

Yes, the leviathan is very similar (to the point where you have to wonder what the point of this is) but its a MELEE (well, intended for melee) model. It has a short range gun because its meant to walk up into your face and brutal(3) you. Whats this thing going to do, waddle up with its inversion beamer and get smacked around in melee?

I dont mind how the new dread looks (even if the leviathan is better) but I dont see the point of it, I dont understand what it will do or is supposed to do that makes it a new unit.

>>95897586
Why do all the dread guns look so incredibly shit?
The base dread is not great to begin with but fucking hell

>>95897586
>They made the weapons so you can easily replace them if you don't use glue or even magnetise them
GW, are you alright?

>>95897621
>Bootlegmaxing

>>95897621
this dread reminds me a lot of fallout new vegas modded weapons
I won't elaborate further

>>95897586
>>95897621
>More Ap3 flamers on the dread
They really went and made a whole new weapon no ones ever mentioned just to make it the only good one this edition?

https://poal.me/8uyx6y
https://poal.me/8uyx6y
https://poal.me/8uyx6y

>>95897622
leaker anon also wrote that the models had magnet holes. Yeah, it's crazy.

>>95897622
>>95897637
Have you retards bought any of the plastic dreadnoughts last edition?

>>95897630
>slow gun-only dreadnought (that presumably costs like 350pts)
>template weapon
Anon that thing better be strength D if it wants to see any play.

The second this thing walks anywhere near its enemies its getting smashed with power fists to the face while it feebly kicks back at Ap-. They deredeo'd a leviathan.

>>95897606
That's clearly AoS

>>95897622
>giant cone dildo arm
>multi-directional vibrator arm
>nipple pincers for pinching target nipple

>>95897621
The more I look at this guy the more he looks like a legally distinct, 3rd party leviathan...

God if these cunts aren't even going to give me a melee version at least let me take double plasma

>>95897637
So did leviathans, and even contemptors to an extent.

>>95897659
>we have thanatar at home

>>95897652
don't look up when the first primarch model was released

>>95897659
One plasma and one disintegrator or one inverter and one grav. No doubling, no mixing, we 40k now.

>>95897586
>inversion beamer
>it's a bizzaro Conversion beamer
Bravo James!

>>95897613
Agreed on that. No melee option will make it very underwhelming from a modelling point of view.

>>95897613
Shame, since a fast-and-light dread was an easy open space, design wise,.

>>95897650
>smashed with power fists
I fully expect it to be T10 or some retarded shit because that's the only thing the saturnine have going for them and if it's not what is even the point compared to a normal levi that can actually fight back?

>>95897679
they'll just powercreep the leviathan into dogshit status to sell the new hotness
GW are experts at that

>>95897672
I think thats a pretty reasonable, cool even, design space for a heavy weapon. And it meshes well with conversion beamers. The next step is a mid range beamer, maximum power at 24", anything more or less and you have dropoff.

>>95897674
That too, looks a bit weird. But the real victim will be gameplay I think. Theres a good chance this thing ends up as a giant turd that makes the kratos look good.

>>95897672
Ah it's the admechs eradication ray weapons.

>>95897672
Did they forget that Eradication Beamers are also a thing that works very similarly (the closer the target, the stronger the shot)?

>>95897688
>I think thats a pretty reasonable, cool even, design space for a heavy weapon.
A heavy weapon that gets crazy strong up close?
I'll take what is melta for 300, Alex.

>>95897622
Warlords in titanicus also have them

>>95897586
I love the rivet options on these and the satties. I wanted to add them to my TS so I can use lots of decals but hot damn would these look mean as Pale Nomads.

>>95897699
Melta still packs a punch at range. It just gets better vs tanks up close.

>>95897704
>It just gets better vs tanks up close.
As of 3.0, it gets better vs everything up close.
But it has a double punch at short range, a punch a mid range, and does nothing at long range. That's not too far from the inversion beamer (or, at least, the conversion beamer backwards.)

>>95897586
>an inversion beamer that gets stronger the closer you are to your target
They are just taking the piss at this point
Why? Why not make a heavy dread version of the conversion beamer?
Why make something completely different that looks 60% the same and has the same rules inverted?
The designers of this box reaaaally wanted to put their fucking mark on it didn't they?

>>95897687
Just like how saturnine Terminators power creeped Cataphractii? Or how the Kratos power creeped Predators?

>>95897719
>and does nothing at long range
Thats because it isnt long range. Long range melta (assuming we count 36" as long range) still has long range punch.
Its not like melta drops off in strength.

>>95897731
The only thing powercrept is wallet damage.

>>95897692
>Waives shoehorn wand
Eradication beamers are now based on inversion beamer technology!

>>95897732
>Its not like melta drops off in strength.
well, it explicitly drops off in damage, which feels like a big component of punch.

>>95897749
Anon even with 3.0 its damage 3 at max range (or rather, full damage, whatever that is). It doesent drop off, it still hits harder than a lascannon.

>>95897731
I like how you're pulling shit out of your ass because we don't even know the cataphractii rules
and kratos powercrept superheavies and predators in 2e, you rarely saw the latter two but kratoses were everywhere

>>95897586
>>95897622
So what size magnets would it take?

>>95897753
>Anon even with 3.0 its damage 3
which is half of 6, and so does considerably less damage to any non-infantry
>at max range
The max range of melta is intentionally shorter than most of it's contemporaries as a limitation.
>It doesent drop off
I don't know what else to describe going from 6 to 3 to 0 as...

>>95897756
NTA, but I saw a fair few predators and not many Kratoses (Kratosi? Kratodes?). Preds were cheap and punchy, a Kratos was expensive and unfocused.

>>95897741
Also possible eradication beamers are another form of disintegration technology, as both fire a beam of energy that rip the target atoms apart.

>everyone forgetting that the saturnine dread teleported in the trailer
Prepare thineselves for tomorrow

>>95897771
I fail to see how deep strikes makes it less ugly.

>>95897771
>deep striking a unit without melee
for what purpose

>>95897768
I haven't seen a predator in my local area since the start of the edition
if people want tanks, they run kratussies with lascannons/melta, a flare shield and a decurion and most of the time it's two of them

>>95897756
>and kratos powercrept
lol

>kratoses were everywhere
The new plastic kit that came in a launch box(?) was more common than the plastic resin models that cost an arm and a leg? Say it aint so! In other news spartans showed up 1.5x per game. Kratoses were a rare meme unit. Superheavies sucking even more doesent change that.

>>95897787
Inversion beamer and nipple guns. It may also have a shield pavase style infantry buff.

>>95897791
>doesn't even know the kratos was never in an army box
way to show you're a tourist lmao
go back to watching youtube batreps

>>95892998 (OP)
>TQ
Flamers looking fun. Begging for hand flamer bits has been slow going but I have 3 of my 5 hand flamer destroyers built.

>>95897791
Why did you bring up the Spartan unprompted?

>>95897823
Maybe because he knows he's talking out of his ass and that the Spartan is literally a better gunboat as a transport lol.

Tomorrow is maybe all dreads not just Saturnine possibly

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/jy1vnchu/saturnine-siege-dreadnought-the-lore/

>>95897823
Because its another big expensive tank? One that you see a lot because it came in the AoD box and therefore basically everyone has?

>>95897902
So you CAN have them double up on the guns.

>>95897902
Guess we will get to double up

>>95897914
My best guess for the cannons is 36" FP2 S9 AP2 D2 Overload (2), Heavy (D)
Heavy plasma bombard 36" FP1 S8/S9 AP4 D2 Breaching 6+/5+ Heavy D or maybe even Heavy (AP)? and Overload (2) if maximal

>>95897941
>>95897941
>>95897941

>>95897649
No, been playing since 1.0 so already had more contemptor and leviathan dreadnoughts than I needed.

>>95897731
Like how GW power creeped Primaris despite being so inept that the Numarines were dogshit at the start of 8th.

>>95897902
So it seems you best be a latent psyker to be a good pilot. Fair enough. Design is definitely growing on me as well.

>>95893705
>Mourn-it-All powersword
I thought Abby had it

>>95897649
no, I bought the BaC one and two different resin ones. Only real retards hump every model GW releases to get a short endorphin rush.

>>95898150
By 40k maybe, during the siege Loken was running around with 2 power swords

>>95897756
If they’re WS4 S4 (S8 with fists) W2 2+/2++ and 5 for 200, they’re objectively better in melee than saturnine with more wounds over all

How do people achieve this brownish color over metallics? I see this quite often for iron warriors and iron hands armies.