Cathay Edition
Resources:
WFB: https://pastebin.com/qVGrgwwh
WM: https://pastebin.com/EsDAgeba
WFRP: https://pastebin.com/inbyBsR6
Novels: https://pastebin.com/PFqPDr0H
>Warhammer Chronicles:https://files (dot) catbox (dot) moe/0xt777 (dot) zip
>Time of Legends:https://files (dot) catbox (dot) moe/q46ut6 (dot) zip
>The End Times:https://files (dot) catbox (dot) moe/j7d0t5 (dot) zip
>TOW:https://gofile.io/d/fxFgXS
https://www.warhammer-community.com/the-old-world-downloads/
>Alternative Models:https://pastebin.com/xPeM9szL
>Previous Thread:>>95884361 >TQ: How excited are you for Cathay?
Iโm giving up my wood elves until next edition I guess.
>>95901891 (OP)You didn't change the previous thread
>sir, a second arcane journal is hitting the release schedule
Fuck
>Previous thread: >>95893693
>>95901891 (OP)>>TQ: How excited are you for Cathay?strike one was the not!primarchs lore
strike two was the sensitivity team
strike three is the overpowered rules
>>95901891 (OP)I need China to invade Taiwan right now to delay this book for as long as possible
>>95901891 (OP)>TQ: How excited are you for Cathay?
>>95901850Asking because I want to know if chaining cannon fire from the cathayan cannons can reduce a unit to 1 movement speed.
These Grand Cathay statblocks are a false flag attack by disgusting, repugnant, filthy Reikland nationalists in attempt to taint the masses away from the glorious light of Cathay.
>'Celestial Blade' is a nonmagical sword of might that also gives you strike first
>it costs 4 points
>TQ
Still pretty excited, I like their models and aesthetic. And that's what matters most to me
>Kills your Chaos Lord/Elf Prince on Dragon.
>Out magics you Level 4 wizard.
>Regains D3 wounds.
>Is playing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swiGWilMqeQ throughout the game.
>TQ: I like the models and they are my favorite army to play in TWW3. By the time I actually have them painted they will have probably been nerfed 4 times over or we will be in 2nd ed.
Also a friend and I tried the renegade pack with my Dark Elves and his Lizardmen. We feel like it makes both armies a little more in-line with the 'core' factions.
>>95901962I can't believe they gave the dragons a 6" move and heal D3 wounds every time they transform. Whoever wrote that has legitimately never played a competitive game of TOW.
>Take illusion on the dragon character for the -1 to hit spell
>Take the -1 to hit magic item
>Character is hit on 6s in combat
>>95901891 (OP)>TQI was tepidly excited until the rules. Now I'm just like yep... guess I'll be avoiding that shit and playing the same old vs my buddies. No one is excited to see this shit across from them nor be the guy everyone avoids
>>95901942I don't believe so but this is only because some things specify that they stack.
Kind of an exception proves the rule situation
>TQ
Have very little knowledge of rules or how the game is played so IDK how much of the dooming is valid or conjecture, but I hope that if they are OP I either don't run into them or they're nerfed by the time I assemble and paint enough dudes to play my Chaos army.
So uh? Is this a fucking joke? I assume tournaments not run by GW will just ban Cathay until itโs nerfed right?
>>95901999I donโt think Iโve seen something this blatently broken since daemons in 7th.
I never thought that I could put down a triple dragon list and not be the waac player at the table
>>95901891 (OP)the army has so many special special rules and stats out of whack that it looks like it went through 3 iterations of ramping up their rules over time
I guess I now see why they didn't give empire special rules, magic lores, dragons, etc.
>>95901965>By the time I actually have them painted they will have probably been nerfed 4 times over or we will be in 2nd ed.based, he's just like me for real
Good thing I'm just getting a Batallion and Miao for painting's sake. This is hilarious.
>>95902021I honestly do think this is how it happens. We know the legacy factions got a nerf patch mandated from above just before they were released. Probably they wrote up this army, put it for pass, got told to boost it up, and then went through that whole cycle another time or two.
>>95901999The characters, cannon and sky lantern are OP, maio ying is ridiculously OP, the remaining stuff is just good.
>Don't even show the lore parts of the book
>Still have mentions of Monkey King, Hobgoblins, Nagas, Lumbria
Hey, not that bad.
>>95902043BIG FAT DRAGON TITS
>>95902056Who cares about the lore
Going to paint my cathayan dragon's human form as Leroy Smith from tekken 7
>Xi Jinping and the CCP went to james workshop himself and forced him to make Cathay broken
it's more likely they're tuned for a second edition ruleset that's still internal only. get real for a second
remember to say "thank you xi!" for GWs respect to chinese folklore and representation, as well as good rules
>>95902079I hope they dump going-back-in-time-shtick and do a soft-reset of pre-end times fantasy. Emphasis on soft-reset, don't want them redesigning all the lore.
>>95902090Theyโve already retconned so much. Itโs gonna be a do over.
>>95902078>tfw a filthy western barbarian approaches you bearing inauspicious gifts the likes of which not even the children of glorious and eternal Cathay have any use for
>>95902033Just being real. I painted Tomb Kings in 6 months but that was because it was all dry brushing skeletons
>>95902096>gifts the likes of which not even the children of glorious and eternal Cathay have any use forNot dogs based food ?
Hey, /wfg/. Tourist here who really only experienced Warhammer Fantasy through Total War and Vermintide. I'm a massive Cathay fan and wanted to know how strong Miao Ying is in the tabletop. Can she take on tons of people by herself or do I have a skewed perspective on mechanics?
>>95902111As written she's the single most broken unit in the game.
>>95902089I need a Miao Ying version of this image.
I just read the cathay rules
What the fuck, I thought you fags were memeing but how the fuck do chingchongs outperform chaos warriors and elves? Who the fuck approved of this shit?
>>95902052Everything else (two units)
>>95902111She's completely unkillably bent. Easily the best big monster in the game, for less points that kitted out generic ones too.
Had just started a new army on old world bases sizes, but unironically glad this dropped now, reminded me not to trust gw and I can pivot to old bases with adapter trays before I get too far along
>>95902120Yaun would make more sense, but I wouldn't complain about more dragon tits.
>>95902128>Who the fuck approved of this shit?The marketing team and the sensitivity team
>>95902111She is extremely powerful. Not only is she a dragon in an edition where dragons are very strong, she's a real strong dragon. And a wizard. And she can morph in and out human form to get wounds back. And she can escape from combat for free. And challenging her out requires a leadership test made at -2.
>>95902128Take a wild guess.
>>95902149>to get wounds back.I genuinely do not understand how they decided this, or teleporting out of combat, was a good idea
>>95902149Surely she has a tremendous point cost for being so powerful?
>>95902118>>95902133>>95902149Well, fuck. On one hand, I like Miao Ying being super strong. On the other hand, broken units are absolutely no fun. I hope she gets nerfed soon (if possible)! Thanks for filling me in!
Grimgor please fuck Cathay 200 years early holy shit
>ws 5 (7 with buffs)
>s 5
>3+ save, 4+ if you want her to go to S4
>ld 10 re-rolls
Her game, her century.
>>95902149She has a 12 inch teleport. (6 inches plus her 6 inch base)
Whoops. There's a dragon in your back line facing your rear
>>9590216420pts more than Galrauch
>>95902164Nope, under 500. You can neatly fit her into a 1k game if you so choose
Fuck, Meow really is TOW Morathi. Where the faction is already fucking good, but the big sexy bitch is so powerful you're literally handicapping yourself if you don't being her along and she's a bitch to transport.
I'm still getting her.
So now that every army has detachments what makes the empire special
>>95902185>(6 inches plus her 6 inch base)it can move afterwards
>>95902052Did they show off the sky lanterns guns? I know people were screeching about it getting impact hits and being fast but I don't think anyone posted the ranged attacks
>>95902052Let it be known that I am vindicated now and forevermore. I said that the lantern would be fast. I called it!
>>95901891 (OP)Boycott Cathay, shit talk it on all GW socials whenever possible, point out Chinese atrocities
What are the point cost of jade warriors?
How many months till cathay gets the nerfhammer
>>95902111>massive Cathay fanMassive faggot* especially given the designs and information you had from Total War lol
>>95902240>WS6, s4 with buffsSeems like chaos is fucked in comparison for 16 points for a warrior
>>95902237this aint 40k with votaan so never
>>95902250It's only WS6 if
> You take the auto take dragon> You pay an ENTIRE point per model> You roll a 1-3 on the Yin/Yang rule
>>95902244I just wanted to fuck the dragon lady and then found them and their great wall to be super cool and fun. So I became invested and now love Chinese fantasy.
>>95902237If the community had BALLS and made messages saying they were banned at tournaments it would get nerfed but the WHFB community is 100% pussy wiped
>>95901891 (OP)What race is this guy, is he black or indian or just swarthy, source new rpg
>>95902237what's it matter? they'll just break something else.
remember the last time GW wasn't completely shitting the bed on game balance? yeah, neither do I.
>>95902206It has 5 guns - either crane guns which are S6 AP-2 cumbersome armorbane (2) or iron hail guns which are S3 AP-1 multiple shots (d3) move & shoot. If you give it iron hail guns it also has either gunpowder bombs or dragon fire bombs, and with either set of guns it can upgrade to have sky lantern bombs. It's decently shooty for the points.
>>95902193How, aren't you supposed split your 1k points into 3 333 point chunks for each unit type between core/special/rare? Or was my friend oversimplifying it
>>95902193It is honestly really really funny to think of someone bringing Miao Ying at 1000pts.
>>95902296also the iron hail don't suffer from long range and multiple shots
I can't wait for this to be a complete nothingburger in practice. History has taught me anytime I see people call something OP and busted before launch 90% of the time it's fine to okay
>>95902266I look forward to seeing the other Cathay Arcane Journal dropping, they just don't seem strong enough :/
>>95902296That's pretty tame then considering they don't have quick shot, points wise the base Ballon is roughly the same as two gyros with brimstone guns at str 5 ap 2 multiple shots d3+1 and no fire and flee could hamper it a good deal.
>>95902328I'll be honest I don't give a shit about the Jade warriors they are still slow as fuck infantry. Men at Arms are still better because they don't need to pay extra for shield wall and come with their bullshit two champions BS (along with the BS of the polearm).
Likewise the cav isn't great, the lower AP on the lances is a big deal and the extra 5 attacks ... Who cares. You miss 2, only wound with two, and they save one. One extra damage oh nooooo.
The bullshit here is the grossly under costed sky junk, the artillery, the Shugengan, and the dragon woman
>>95902346It does have fire and flee.
Starting to dip my toes into Warhammer out of curiosity after a thread about Marienburg caught my attention. A watch post was named after a dwarf duelist that saved goblin from a lynch mob. I thought goblins were just Always Evil or was this just bad writing?
>>95902320I think the cannons and miao ying are pretty broken. Everything else is just strong and somewhat undercosted.
Cathay is mid power wise and nothing in it any more Op than most things other factions have access to. The Sentinel is move 6 no swiftstride for 230 points which is far worse than the necro sphinx or Giant chaos spawn. The Shugengan is a worse Black Orc warboss and sits pretty nicely in the mid power range for heores. Dragon Lords and brets wreck him. Miao is actually not that good or even bad because she only gets a 4+ 5+ saveand she only has 7 wounds which is like 3 canon shots that wound. Val and that jew robb just hyped them up for no big reason. Like LOL Orcs are even more undercosted and so much stronger.
>>95902375>I thought goblins were just Always Evil or was this just bad writing?Goblins are generally evil, self interested at best but always cruel and petty.
>>95902197I don't like this picture
They still lose to bret flying circus and ironically I don't think they play that well into actual dragons without miao ying. I think tomb king hordes will play OK into cathay too, but they will absolutely stomp the goblin version.
>>95902385>Miao is actually not that good or even badBruh the 6" teleport from in combat is insane.
>>959023633+ rerolling 1s for 8ppm, or if rumors false 4+ rerolling, with the ability to get regen6+ and force opponents to take dangerous terrain tests in their fighting rank.
>>95902375Goblins are fundementally evil, but not metaphysically evil, just total fucking pricks and are also extremely racist to all non greenskins. Very unlikely any one would ever not deserve to be lynched, but not wholly unimaginable
>>95902391Not chad enough for a girlfriend from Nan-gau?
The other thing is they don't really have any melee power outside of the shugengan and sentinels (and the special character). Now they do like never fucking break rerolling Ld10 break tests, but if you can close with good melee they won't be winning fights.
>>95902385>just bring 2 cannons, an Blorc warboss, a necrosphynx, and a dragon lord ez pz
>>95902403No it isnt. She will probably not see combat or will get shredded by equaly costed Lords. She obly has. 6 attacks while other dragon lords got 10+
>>95902379compare the longma lord/hero to any gryphon type lord
>>95902313>>95902346Ah now I see the issue
>>95902432Emp general is a bit more expensive at base but is on a behemoth imperial griffon with better and more attacks while also having thunder stomps
>>95902367Unless I missed it it looks like it just had feigned flight, either way you would be able to fire and flee with cumbersome weapon anyways
>>95902432284 for a flying level 4 wizard with T5 7W and a 3+/5++ is definitely incredibly efficient by the costing standards of other armies. But this is also your only level 4 and one of the only units in your entire army that can apply melee pressure, outside of miao ying, and it can't join any unit and is a monstrous creature. You also can't run 2 of these if you are running miao ying. So I think it is clearly a bargain but will be less good than it seems because of the very limited roster.
Hopefully the Sigmar players actually buy up all the Cathay armies so I don't have to deal with their shit so much
The cathayan army I see is definitely super heavy on cannons and magic missiles so you have to come towards it and then just ties you up forever or moves around you with flying shugengans and/or balloons.
For the anon who asked me to reshuffle these last thread, they still rank up perfectly.
Anyone got a sc of the grand army comp? Still blindsided there was only one infantry option. At least give us a more elite greatsword equivalent you can only have one of.
>>95902385The play with the dragon whore is pretty easy. You deploy as a human in a unit, spam out magic missiles for a few turns while your stupidly under cost sky lanterns snipe any artillery, then you turn dragon and dare to be charged, as you strike first and wipe out entire front ranks.
So.... I was excited to finally play Cathay but these rules man i cant look past it. Its pretty evil.
>>95902391Go post about it on /r/ Asian masculinity
>>959024306 always strikes first at I6 S7 WS8 assuming the opponent can even challenge her, with ap-2 armor bane, into her 4+ armor and 5++ward save, that if you kill her she simply comes back to life like 6 inches away. plus whatever spells she can put on herself as a level 3/5 wizard. Yeah, im sure dragonlords will never have a problem
dont forget hatred chaos for the lulz
>Number 1 complaint of TOW is that dragons are too strong
>Release an even stronger dragon right before the balance errata which will probably nerf every other dragon
Bravo GW
>>95902480Well there are 5 factions who can bring bigger dragons that cant be sniped cause of their superior saves.
>>95902432The longma is definitely worse than a Griffin
>>95902413A lot of infantry sound scary when you then stack spell effects on them.
They are slow infantry just don't engage them until it's favorable, or just hit them with knights. A 4 reroll 1s turns into a 6 reroll ones. The front rank is still getting rolled. As for the dangerous terrain... It's 1/6 I don't care. Hell elf cav get to reroll that test too!
>>95902497The high elf dragon is still getting off scot free from all the rumoured nerfs.
Whatโs the best place to source old skaven kits if I wanted to play TOW?
Ebay?
>>95902475Are those 3d scans
>>959024966 attacks to kill an uh 10 wounds Dragon Lord with uh a 3+5+ at worst and uh an ogre blade. She will wreck them for sure yeah 100%.
>>95902501the armor saves and baked in, and its 8ppm. who else but maybe gors gets that much value for 8ppm? and speed 4 isnt slow, its standard and you forget its speed 5 half the time
>>95902517Infantry just aren't a big deal until they change the TOW rules. Yes they're decent value, they're very far from broken.
>>95902516you just enjoy being contrarian at this point, you think a worse WS, I and with "10 attacks" (4-5 are ogre blade, rest are dragon) is somehow going to ez pz shit on this? get real.
>>95902525>is literally better than any other infantry>but like uhhh infantry isnt good so hathis is literally their worst unit and its better than almost anything else ppm. thats the sign of a broken book.
>>95902528It will. Waacfags already made up their minds.
>>95902533The jade warriors could be half the price and still not be broken. Like I get what you're trying to say, but it's a stupid example to pick when they have a monster that can teleport 6" out of combat while healing with the best spells in the game. Generic infantry just aren't a thing that can be powerful in TOW currently.
>>95902528Miao hates chaos, which helps in that specific matchup, but she isn't as strong as a tooled up dragonlord in combat (but does get to strike first) and is more vulnerable to a monster killer bret lord. What is your plan into a dragonlord playing cathay? I guess you can turn off flying, swiftstride, drop it to move 4 or 3 or whatever with your cannons, get 2 runs of shooting into it, but it probably still isn't day.
>>95902504trolltrader usually has a decent selection of older stuff if they ship to your country, they tend to have a good amount of OOP whfb stuff too
>>95901891 (OP)>TQHalf of my league plays "whoops all cav and pegasus" Bretonia, including a buddy of mine.
I can't wait for them to play against Cathay and realize they can no longer go in a straight line and auto win games anymore
>>95902547Assuming it gets to challenge and it's mot shot off by 4 to 6 cannon shots plus whatever baloon fire. Did you actually read or watch all the leaks or you've already decided to be contraband so everyone else has to now defeat multiple niche scenarios you've cooked up to ignore the rest?
>>95902560I think Bretonnia is still going to whip Cathay outside of maybe an oops all flying 3 x Shugengan 3 x balloon list. Like a kind of evasive flying circus concentrating on shooting and magic. The cavalry will never catch them and if you can chip away the pegasus knights they won't win fights if they do get into combat. The tooled-up Bret lord will still be a threat.
>>95902568You need a ridiculous number of cannon shots to kill a triple save dragon. Two turns of 3-4 cannons shooting at it probably doesn't kill it. It's not a niche scenario: dragonlords are everywhere and the most powerful TOW unit, so cathay has to have a plan to deal with them.
>>95902533If infantry were better, yeah they would be broken.
But they aren't (they are also only S/T 3). So they just aren't that great.
I do think the sheer extent of Ld9/Ld10 rerolling break and panic and rally and whatever the fuck else tests is underrated. Cathayan infantry are practically going to be undead, and you have to fill up 500pts core so you might as well take a unit of 40 jade soldiers or 20 jade lancers or whatever.
>>95902560Sounds like a shitty group of people
I think halberds are maybe better than shields though. They come with drilled for 1 point and if you're taking 40 or 50 and can reform into a line, you might as well take the better offensive weapon.
>>95902570Don't forget a min unit of jade warriors hiding in the back with the once per game no fly banner to ground the Pegasus turn one or two
>>95902595Can you take both? They're both Free
>>95902599Nope, it's one or the other. I think if you're playing for the buff spell I'd rather be WS5/6 S5 than S4 by quite a long way even at the expense of (maybe) a +2 save.
>>95902583They're better than anyone else's tax at this point so kind of does matter no matter how much you try to downplay it
>>95902598I'm surprised the cathay banner is only one use, the beadtmen banner that does the same thing can be used as much as you want assuming you consistently pass tests.
Place your bets
How many months until Cathay gets nerfed?
>>95902627They will be less powerful than everyone thinks and they will not challenge the current dominant metagame, so they will not be nerfed.
Basically, they're going to be strong in a casual pickup game where people are bringing things like units of 20 regular infantry. But they won't be ahead of the pack in competitive TOW.
>>95902634I really hope you are right, even if I don't see it
>>95902579Ok how about 6 cannon shots? That's pretty reasonable thats 2 turns from 2 cannons. Stat wise 1 is going through consistently. Your dragon lord is now 2 to 3 wounds. Ming can get 2 wounds through assuming no buffs. I won't even add the stupid baloon. And even the best leadership is 8 to challenge her before any other debuffs, so charging her is mo guaranteed. Then she respawns back as a level 4/5 wizard even if you swing for the heavens into ws8. Yeah man, I'm totes sure this is as easy as you think
>>95902648I think the mass cannon is going to be way more oppressive than any other cathayan build for sure. I'm not sure if I care about taking miao ying vs. two level 4 shugengans alongside those cannons. The shooting twice with ogres makes them strong even at 165 because it really limits the kind of units you'd normally pick on warmachines with.
>>95902642That anon you'll note can only compare Cathay to the most broke load outs and models. For the vast majority of us using normal to subpar army loadouts, factions, and lists, simply bringing her will be a wash out. And since she's a special character you can't even kit her out fluffy like a generic lord to blunt it.
Simply put she's way to strong for the points.
>>95902659The fact the shugens are so cheap ans strong too
Just everything is overtuned
Weirdly this is probably the army that doesn't need a BSB despite having a nice model for it.
>>95902666Yeah I mean I said that
>>95902638. I think if you're playing TOW 'for fun' this is a rough army because building them a certain way will just be inherently strong in a way that most other armies in the game are not. But competitively I don't think they'll have an easy time into bret flying circus, tomb king mortuary cults or high elf/chaos megadragon lists.
>>95902678Definitely a weird thing with them which feels much more informed by current AoS/40k vibes - the mounted leader is a distinct separate unit by himself, the ward save and protective items are folded into his profile, etc. - whereas the classic WHFB vibe is you start out with a profile and fully customise the unit yourself. Obviously there's precedent in the chaos armour rule in TOW, but I wonder if they extended that here just to be more familiar to potential incoming AoS/40k players. He's certainly incredible value even if only second tier as an offensive powerhouse.
The winds rule also feels pretty poorly designed to me because you are constantly going to be forgetting that shit. You have to roll every turn, there are two possibilities for the roll and you then have to pick one of two options for those. It's just gonna slow down the game and lead to a bunch of times where you forgot a unit had +1WS or +1I or whatever.
>faction releases with tools to deal with strong threats enemies can bring
wow wtf is this bullshit OP OP ban and nerf it
>faction doesn't release with tools to deal with strong threats enemies can bring
wow GW, why even bother releasing them with no units. Can't even play them, loses to xyz
>>95902713Let's be real, a random distance aura effect movement debuff would be cancer in any format it was introduced in. That's like they had a competition to design the least fun rule they could to slap on the cannon.
How long until a second dragon hits the Cathay roster
>>95902713They can handle the "meta" means they fucking wreck everyone lower than the meta too
>>95902508No, I'm not a proontoid monkey. They're recasts.
>>95902648Congratulations, you just 'wasted' two turns of all their Artillery AND their hero unit that is 1/4 of their entire list leaving your entire army pretty much free reign
>>959022328ppm, halberd or shield for free, 1ppm for drilled, 1ppm for stubborn.
>>95902724I hope we get some of the other dragons that don't have designs or much lore
>>959027382 points for stubborn I think.
>>95902727> Sneers at printing> Happy to give chinks or slavs money for cancer resin that they make for pennies while charging him dollarsTruly bizarre
>>95902732....how expensive do you think cannons are? And dragonlords are?
Yeah, contrarian for certain
>>95902754NTA but 3 cannons and miao ying is close to 1000pts and a tooled-up dragonlord is probably around 600, cheaper in helves and welves.
>>95902760And when 600pts is down top of 2, and your pts are fine, that's "bad?" Because surely 2 cannons and a uberdragon surely won't continue to contribute...
>>95901891 (OP)>TQNot that much anymore, I was really hoping for peasants. My hope was to have one or two elite units of warriors supported by peasants with spears. We don't even have any missile infantry. Seems like you can get one squad of elite warriors, but ONLY IF YOU TAKE THE GAY NAMED CHARACTER. I've been working on a Nippon army with Warlord senhoku jidai minis, and now I'm thinking about just switching them to Empire. Guess I'll wait for the other half of the rules to release before I make my decision for real.
>>95902768>We don't even have any missile infantry.Bro your jade warriors with crossbows?
>>95902774They can take crossbows? It looked like they could only take shields or halberds.
>>95902774Wait they're not even in the game wtf
>>95902724Considering the first one got delayed an extra 6 months, you won't see another until next summer.
>>95902778I must have hallucinated them that fucking sucks. Guess I have to wait untill the second arcane journal (for some reason)
>>95902774second wave surely
>>95902785I dont understand why they wont just put them in the normal arcane journal. Whats so bad about printing rules for minis that dont exist yet? Did Cathay get rushed to meet the summer release?
>>95902788GW noticed that the game didn't die on release, so they put 40k restrictions on it.
>>95902788>I dont understand why they wont just put them in the normal arcane journal. How would we sell a second journal otherwise?
What happens if you score monster killer on dragon miao ying? Does she still take human form with D3 wounds or does she just die?
>>95902800Make their employees do their fucking job and make new units
>>95902805Thatโs a shame. The bretonnian duke on royal pegasus still mogs her though I think.
>>95902818The scary part is on "death" she simply reverts to a level4+ wizard with some decent abiltiies
Like fuck me
>>95902774Bruh there are rules for ironhail and crane guns, but they can only be taken on the sky lantern. I am livid.
>Cocky Miao Ying challenging a meta Bretonnian army because of her overpowered rules!
>Getting one shot by a Bretonnian knight and introduced to droit de seigneur!
>Uuuooooooooh ;_;!
>>95902828Thatโll be the real possibility for Cathay to be busted, if they can take 5 man units of bs 4 iron hail and crane gunners down the line.
>>95901917>cathay>ccp memewrong, cathay is based on the actually chinese heritage that Mao hated with passion, if anything Taiwan is closer to Cathay culture than whatever the ccp illegitimately has
>>95902841Each Sky Lantern gets 5 of them anyways, it doesn't matter.
>>95902859Yeah but a sky lantern is expensive bro. Just because itโs T5 with 7 wounds and a 4+ save and Fly (8) with reserve move and feigned flight and fire and flee doesnโt justify it costing a whole 135 points. Five 1 wound 5+ save T3 gunners would probably be at least 70 points with these guns.
>>95901891 (OP)>TQEvery piece of news is somehow sillier than the last. What an elaborate way to get people to stop asking for more Fantasy.
>>95902859Itโs actually an issue for a gunline that you canโt spend your core allowance on units that can contribute to shooting, so getting gunners in core would be big.
Is there anything in the book for Yin-Yin?
>>95902200Huh? What other army has them. Also I've never even seen a single player use detachments, no nothing has changed if what you say is true.
>>95902897I dont think any lore stuff from the journal has been shared yet but I'm sure all the dragon siblings probably get a blurb about them
>>95902904>What other army has themDwarfs
Skaven with the Squarebase rules
>>95902904High elves and Cathay both have them in TOW. I think maybe TKs too?
>>95902907Someone on /twg/ is claiming Yin-Yin was demoted to being a hero. I just wanted to see if that was true
I think you should try writing a Cathayan list with these points before calling them broken. Having to take 500pts of mostly useless core is a big downside.
>>95902921Every army has to do that, anon.
>>95902921They get to take knights as core, their core is anything but useless
>>95902930No, some armies get useful units in core.
>>95902941The jade lancers are not very impressive. Iโd rather have even empire knights.
>>95902946High elves, wood elves, chaos warriors, tomb kings, orcs and goblins, beastmen.
I feel like Cathay is gonna be a noob trap.
Not because they're bad, they're the opposite, but new players won't have the experience to make the most out of it and do stupid shit like leave Meow exposed after shape-shifting into a human and she then eats artillery to the face.
>>95902948I think Cathayan Cataphracts makes them quite good.
>>95902953>high elvesOh boy, I love my frail weak spearmen that no longer fight in five ranks.
It's grrrreat!
>>95902959My problem is even with a constant charge buff S4 AP-1 just isnโt threatening enough.
>>95902971Are the Cathayan lances only +1 str ap-1? I missed or fell asleep during that part I guess
>>95902953Alright, fair. I know that the meta chaos lists just spam marauder horsemen with flails, but it's kinda gay that warriors and knights are garbage. Still, I don't think the core in Cathay is going to be that bad. So what if it's a core tax army? Suck it up, the rest of your units are still completely fucked.
>>95902982Yes. They make up for it by fighting in two ranks.
>>95902965OK Iโll name the units. Silver helms, archers, glade riders, forsaken, warhounds, marauder horsemen, skeleton archers (ushabti in MC), goblin archers, black orcs, gors, minotaurs, warhounds again, tuskgor chariots.
>>95902982Yes. They do get fight in two ranks but I still think they lack punch.
>>95902988Oh ok. Yeah I do like them quite a bit then. Don't get me wrong I am not saying they are even close to the strongest thing in this book but they quite good for core.
>>95902983It just means itโs difficult to fit in oppressive amounts of the broken stuff. You can have 4 balloons but you canโt have that alongside cannons and miao ying. If you go in on the cannons you canโt have the balloons etc.
>>95902992>Silver helmsNot more punchy or even handy than reavers.
>archersEven squishier than spearmen but with a shooting attack you'll use maybe twice and kill all of three guys with. Just use sisters instead.
>>95903004Does Cathay really need stronger troops when their heroes are gonna be playing Dynasty Warriors on the enemy?
>>95903004My issue is whatโs their target? You get 0-1 units in core so you canโt run multiple units for screening and blocking. So if you are taking a unit of 10+ whatโs it going into?
>>95903011Forgot about reavers, my bad. Thatโs a third useful core unit.
>>95903019Thereโs nothing in the Cathayan list that can take on the current combat gods of the game.
>>95903019No their core is fine I think most everything else needs a nerf except for the Terracota Sentinels, those also seem reasonable.
>>95903020Drawing out fanatics, baiting pegasi, charging light to medium infantry.
>>95903028I mean OK but most everyone else gets to do that with multiple 70-100 point mounted units, yours is 200+ and you only have 1. Theyโre good into the infantry nobody takes.
>>95902953>2 jade warriors for 1 chaos warriorUhhh
>no save flail vs s4 ws6 halb with 5+Hmmm
>>95903020Considering you get to fight in two ranks with cav spears, I think you can charge pretty much anything that isn't a monster from the front and do very well.
GOD FORBID EMPIRE BRING 2 STEAM TANKS TO A 2000 POINT GAME THAT MAY BE TOO MUCH FUCK YOU GWWWWWWW
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>>95902833Bretonnian knights asserting their Prima Nocte right in Cathay is canon.
Doesn't the jade lancer champion have magical item points?
You can likely give Jim a funny little trinket to do a gimmick.
>>95903071This is true, he can afford the plague of rust bound spell item.
>>95903054Just be glad that Grand Cathay kept their own steam tanks back home to suppress alleged student demonstrations.
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I haven't got a chance to look at their new rules but I have been a Cathay player since I was a kid so I am quite excited to see what's in store.
>>95902286Please understand, only Cathay can be ethnically homogeneous.
Shugengan Lords get Illusion access so the combo they banned with the Mace of Helstrum is kinda back on the table. Take the Monkey King staff and you can Spectral Doppelgรคnger 2d6 S10 AP-4 hits with multiple wounds (d3). Strike Last so have to survive to I1 to do it but heโs decently tough with no items.
>>95903140Dies to Royal Peg Duke with coins in his pocket
>>95903146True, but so do many things and he is cheaper than the duke.
>>95902992>glade riders s tier coreHuh
I don't think it's as bad as everyone initially thinks. The points on the Shugengen and Lantern need to go up thobeit
As an empire player, im putting myself on suicide watch.
>>95903191>Only S tier units are worth takingFound the 40k player.
>>95903196I just wish I could use the units I wanted to. I was really excited to use my Warlord Japanese samurai minis to play Cathay, but the peasants and gunners which make up most of my models just don't have rules.
>>95903199Do you feel the existence of a human faction with tons of interesting and unique special rules is insulting to Empire players?
>>95903199Could be worse. You could be the guy who has been hyped for Kislev since 2019
>>95903202You retard I was responding to someone claiming it was S tier core unit.
I know glade guard aren't a bad core tax, just haven't heard glade riders being S tier usually people seem to not use them.
>>95902286He's fatigue inducing.
>>95903202>collects models from a different system to try and play in old world>somehow, GW didn't consult him when making their own model line to make money>this surprises the anonActually the more I think about it, the anon(s) saying Cathay release and design is partially due to not having any good proxy competition keep making sense
>>95903202>peasantsGross
Unfortunately you will (eventually probably) get your wish since there are peasant troops for Cathay in TWW3
You guys a year ago
>Warhammer Fantasy is back, yay!
you guys now
>The new army is totally overpowered, this sucks!
Make up your fucking minds, jesus christ. Did you want Fantasy back or not?
>>95902286That's just a normal Imperial, are you blind?
>>95903251I wasn't expecting all 3 gunpowder missile infantry units, but I was expecting at least one since GW kept wanking off Cathayan gunpowder. What I'm really astonished by is the total lack of missile infantry whatsoever.
>>95903258I'm sorry that I want real chaff and not 8ppm elite infantry. I probably wouldn't care so much if the real elite infantry wasn't locked behind the gay named dragon. I want the weaker warriors and then MY general's elite. Not Miao Ying's elite.
>>95903133The Empire was based off the HRE, it was never ethnically homogenous you dipshit
>Cathay's dragon has the attack first rule
Closing in on done with this guy.
>>95903347Dope. I like the pincers
>>95903347looks good, but the next one has to look like the rock from scorpion king in all its gloriously bad cgi glory.
Aside from gortrek and Felix, I think all fantasy characters are glup shittos.
>>95903417What did he mean by this?
>>95902393>They still lose to bret flying circusSid you overlook the nofly item and the -1M cannons? They don't even need to wound, just hit nearby. Remember that 1M is -2M when marching. Stack those cannon shots and shoot twice and now you are essentially standing still on the table for an entire turn. It's completely bonkers. Anyone claiming Miyao will be killed by a dragonlord is delirious.
>>95903431or the your movement is d6 spell that will be going off on +5s
>>95902753>chinkWhere do you think your proonter and resinz come from, Little Boy?
/twg/ here i came here to laugh at you
>>95903431They can cancel fly for a turn with a magic object also lol
>>95903452Can you please use proper grammar? You are making the sea audience look bad.
>>95903438>or the your movement is d6 spell that will be going off on +5sAs signature lol
>>95903452>I know it's a lot, the hair the bod >when you're staring at a demi-god!
>>95903482good lord anon have a proper image
>>95903451Stolen western tech
I fucking called it. Where's that little fag who derided me now
>>95901891 (OP)the mega link for WFRP2nd ed books is not working
>>95902286Is it even a he?
>>95903461the dragons banner is also sleeper bullshit a 3+ no is better than most the dispels as it forces them to pick a less optimal target with no recourse.
>think about starting high elves
>look at the models
>remember how shit they look
>also remember they are elves
>a vampire count has the same leadership as a chink foot soldier
kek
>>95903617>insane, maddened with bloodlust leech>normal sane person who knows his ruler has the mandate of heavenseems correct to me
>>95903617Don't forget those foot soldiers gets like three different sources of rerolls, including one pseudo inspiring presence that ignores all effects targeting it
Dreadquake mortar am i right fellas?
>>95903648Orruks will pilot them rather than dawi
Got my bases done on my Dragon Ogres, it's getting there!
>>95903683Based on the leak they seem very silly. That dragon chick especially looks like it's very unpleasant to play against.
I don't know what's worse. The fact there have already been tards saying they're going to use their Empire minis as counts-as Cathay, or knowing that on the day after their release there will be faggots bringing their new OP Cathay army to the table without a single model painted.
>>95903729Im deadset on painting everything before playing. I didnt order much just for that reason.
>>95903735You wonโt even assemble anything
>>95903708Well, i don't mind her being broken. I can just not take her if I want to have a fun time with friends.
>>95903624This, how long do you think Elon Musk would stay on the battlefield compared China's strongest soldiers?
So, what kind of mercenaries could Cathay take ?
Doesn't list any in particular and all the published mercs don't refer to Cathay in their respective entries either.
>>95903708The Bastion's defence requires it.
>people think that Cathay won't be nerfed in the second AJ
>people are baffled that the shiny new army has OP rules (totally never happened before)
>people forget they can refuse to play against certain people and it's not fucking pokemon "our eyes crossed so we have to fight"
It's like watching a theater play rehearsal
>>95903829On goes on as before, as always. Illusions...illusions
>>95903829>people are baffled that the shiny new army has OP rules (totally never happened before)That doesn't make it ok retard
When are the Swedes going to comp old world? I'm tired of larping my 2k Skaven is equal to this shit.
I think the main reason for cathay seemingly being over the top is that with such a limited roster, it would suck if any of the units is straight up garbage.
>>95903863People are just gonna run the battalion, Meow, and then maybe the big expensive fuckers down the line. Because why use double of Miao's children when she and some fat bloke on a balloon do better?
>>95903683they're probably mid at worst and will end up being good overall but not top 2.
>>95903870Miao doesn't exist yet, so that's one good reason
>>95903874Would be nice. I enjoy if my army is not top tier. Makes it nicer for casual games.
>>95903420I think he means that all fantasy characters are just like Star Wars.
>>95903613I mean, High Elves are one of the easiest armies to proxy.
>>95903617Aren't the Jade Warriors pretty elite?
When we inevitably get Peasant fodder I imagine their leadership is probably very low.
>>95903613High elf spears and archers look bad. Most of their range was refreshed in 8th.
>>95903941No they are regular professional soldiers. Celestial guard are the elites
>>95903941I mean make a magistrate your general and have a 12โ leadership 9/10 bubble rerolling break tests from the balloon.
I actually donโt think you take Miao Ying. She has some crazy rules but she provides a target in your army for any anti-monster tech or other dragons, and she doesnโt have that great a defensive profile. Plus the Galrauch problem where if you take her you are paying for a level 4 you are not then using when she is dragon mode etc. I think the Shugengans are such absurd value that 2 Shugengan lords actually looks better than MY at 2000 points.
>>95901891 (OP)>CathayNot Muh Warhammer[TM]. I'll treat it as AoS and similar shit, i.e. maybe fuy a few neat minis to paint and not play with/against it ever.
>>95901965Renegade pack and everything else the square base guys introduce is utter cancer for the game. Their symmetrical terrain layouts are 40k L shaped ruin tables level of soulless
Any links to the cathay leak?
Going to 100% buy it. So, want to start preparing my purchases already.
>Look at some of the ET character rules.
>Compare Miao to them and look at how she would be if she was ported to 8th.
>She is easily on par or close to Final Archaon, Nagash and Malekek, but costs around half the points.
>She could easily body the Mortarchs and Incarnates.
I am now calling into question the canonicity of the End Times, because could this bitch hold of most of the fuckers in it, but there are apparently 4 more beings like her, and 2 beings much more powerful than her.
>>95904004https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gU7lSv8DUWU&t=4801s&pp=ygUTU3dhdXJlIGJhc2VkIGNhdGhheQ%3D%3D
>>95904004https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerFantasy/comments/1leycjx/cathay_arcane_journal/#lightbox
>>95903133>only Cathay can be ethnically homogeneousbased Chinese sensitivity team
>>95903133>China>Ethnically homogenousLol.
Cathay can't even keep their population from fucking Dragons.
>>95904006There's no way she beats end times malekith. You don't need to exaggerate.
>>95904029>flaming attacks
Do you still get to hop 6" when you're forced to transform into human form after being killed as a dragon? Think that's really key to how survivable meow ying might be.
>>95904027But I didn't say she would Beat ET Malekith. I said she was on par/close to Malekith, as in she is same realm of bullshit as the top tier ET characters.
But I don't play Total War?
I expected Cathay has a small range, but still weird that they don't have any ranged units at the moment. I can already tell I'm probably going to buy more than one of the Boxes.
>>95904079Two seems like the sweet spot. 40 jade warriors and 20 jade lancers is enough to fill up your mandatory core, and you probably will want to have the ability to run more than 2 cannons. The really price crushing thing is the balloon looks good and is almost the price of the battalion by itself.
You also probably resign yourself to at least half of those jade warriors and lancers sitting on the shelf when the second AJ hits.
>>95904079Yeah no real ranged. The lantern is the closest you have not counting the arty.
>>95904079*Infantry ranged units
They do have cannons, obviously.
>>95904029One is a real army and the other is legacy trash that nobody cares about
>>95904094The lantern has pretty decent firepower.
>>95904092To be fair, I intend to use the Jade Warriors and Lancers for historical stuff as well. Besides the peasants, I doubt much of the second AJ will work for that. Good 28mm, or 32mm for that matter, Chinese stuff is hard to find.
I'm honestly kind of torn between putting Ming or Wu iconography on the banners.
>>95901891 (OP)tq very hyped
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxmICiOXw2c
>>95904125Cathay themes?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=26BVoCAEK08&pp=ygUTVGhlIG1hbmRhdGUgZXRlcm5hbA%3D%3D
>>95904013love those two goofy boomers
>>95904134https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-xHOeWOcBs
>>95904134https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8DKNVLiA80
>>95904161Han could also work, even if I'm pretty sure Han Soldiers looked very different compared to the more Ming Inspired soldiers of Cathay.
Not that I expect anybody, even the people into historical, wargames to know the difference.
>>95904175They existed some 2000 years apart, even basal laymen like myself should be able to tell the guys with the bell shields and chariots aren't the same as the lamellar guys with crossbows and cavalry with stirrups.
I can't wait to table Cathay zoomers with my 30 year old VC army kek
>>95903275One doesn't preclude the other.
>you HAVE to be excited for the overtuned mess the Cultural Sensitivity Commission of the Chinese Communist Party made GW rubber-stampYeah.
>>95904209sry m8 no legends
>>95904212I mean... If you genuinely want to believe Warhammer fantasy has a future Cathay is pretty much the one shot it really has of proving it. Ethnic human factions will either be the thing that kills it or makes it blossom into something truly great.
>>95904232I am mostly because it actually looks good.
Like, unironically, I expect Miao Ying to appear fucking everywhere. Much like I've seen more people use Yndrasta's wings than I've seen them actually use Yndrasa.
Frankly, looking at everything I don't think it's THAT Op. I do however laugh at Empire players now. Holy shit you got screwed over.
>>95904240I sadly won't be able to field her. Sure I'll own the figure and magnetize it so I can also use her for the dragon army in MESBG, but carrying that bitch around already looks like ass.
The logistics for transporting the lantern also make me feel, if I may borrow the phrase, "ill at ease".
>>95902272i could see tournaments organisers just not allowing Cathay the majority of them already told GW to fuck off by allowing the Legacy factions in their tournaments.
>>95904249I feel that way about most modern GW kits, frankly.
I should probably buy either a metal case or a fuck ton of magnets to break apart the model every time I transport it.
>>95901891 (OP)>TQI was waiting for Cathay since 6th edition, TW slowly strangled the dream and GW just snapped its neck. Never been happier to have picked Empire.
>>95904230I don't slavishly over-identify with a product to the degree which you seem to do.
Fantasy being brought back is good.
Fantasy being brought back intentionally busted to cater to Chinese video gamers with cooked attention spans is bad.
>>95904292>I don't slavishly over-identify with a product to the degree which you seem to do.>Over identifyWhy do you assume that?
I like Warhammer fantasy because a faction like Cathay can exist. I want to see it do well, in the hope it allows other ethnic human factions to also do well. That has nothing to do with me identifying with the brand.
>Fantasy being brought back intentionally busted to cater to Chinese video gamers with cooked attention spans is bad.1: Fantasy was always busted. 2: Warhammer fantasy as a whole was brought back to appeal to Grogs and Total War players. 3: I don't think it was just there to Cather to Chinese players. Frankly, I imagine Kislev would have dropped first if It wasn't for that whole war thing.
>>95904301> Frankly, I imagine Kislev would have dropped first if It wasn't for that whole war thing.If that's true, GW are banking awfully hard on Taiwan not being a thing any time soon.
>>95904323Taiwan probably won't be a thing because China is boringly pragmatic enough to just bide their time. At worst when they do finally just buy it there will be some people screaming for blood, but lacking an actual ongoing war it will be forgotten in like a month.
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>unsure how to run Araby in Warhammer, since the human factions font really fit its style and using them as Asur stand-ins feels wrong
>Cathay has core ws5 chaff with higher I and Ld
Boy do I feel silly for having restraint.
>>95904301>I want to see it do welldo you think launching with rules that break the balance of the game will see it do well in the long term? Because historically such factions are doomed to fail see Votann as a recent example, but Grey Knights, Harlequins, Daemons and Knights are good examples of armies that fell off despite broken rules at launch and basically never recovered.
>>95904328Ain't it China's actual stated position on Taiwan non-violent reintegration?
>>95904323Mainland China invading Taiwan would be the biggest naval invasion of all time We would basically know months in advance if it ever happened, and it's really only possible for a few select months of the year.
>>95904328America chose to explode their international clout so I figure Taiwan will rejoin the mainland without war within 15-20 years or so.
>>95904331The game rules as they are right now are more broken than anything the cathay AJ is introducing. Cathay will not displace current top table lists. TOW writers should be more worried about fixing the inherently busted game than they should be about nerfing Cathay.
>tfw I really want the balloon but I have car repairs coming up so I'm just getting the bb for now
At least I'm good after that, the only other thing I want badly is Zhao and he's not coming for awhile.
They just aren't that strong. Miao Ying is fragile for a dragon and if you take her you're taking minimum 1 other level 4, and she can only sit in jade warriors as an infantry bunker in human form, and that means you get your +1 to casting ONE spell ONCE a turn but are highly limited in movement because the casters have to be within 12". You get global buffs to your army but you can't predict which ones you'll have one turn to the next. The sentinels are fine but not unkillable, the balloons are pretty crazy but not really more so than gyros or existing chariot lord builds. People underestimate how much being a heavy chariot affects their movement. They don't outfight the current dragon-heavy builds and they're even more vulnerable to being preyed upon by the Bretonnian flying circus. They don't beat Mortuary Cult at magic.
>>959043296th ed Dogs of War or TOW Bret exiles
Miao Ying initially looks like she has crazy stats and she is offensively powerful compared to other dragon MOUNTS, but she doesn't have a lord riding her adding power or special rules. Then you have to start looking at the unique abilities. Yes hopping 6" out of combat and healing D3 seems nuts, but she has to abandon a combat choosing to do that and cannot charge afterwards, so you're pretty much locking her out of influencing the game for a turn and you have to have some safe place for her to jump. The fact she survives as a human after being killed as a dragon is mid, because then she doesn't hop so whatever killed dragon her likely just kills human her immediately after. If anything it's bad just because it promotes slow rolling attacks into her.
Being a level 4 with double siggies is great but if you're using her as a level 4 you're not using her as a dragon and she's sitting with slow infantry somewhere. If you shift her to dragon form, she's no longer a level 4 and is likely in combat and restricted in what she can cast. She doesn't get to bring any of the utility magic items Cathay has and she doesn't get you a balloon or sentinel as a special choice, stretching out your points more. She's better than a regular monster, but considerably worse in combat than any of the tooled up dragon lords that actually get played.
The movement and spell selection on her is going to be very skill expressive: there are undoubtedly good players who are going to be able to make crazy moves by exploiting her rules. But ultimately I think it is just too fancy and most of the time the benefit for trying to do some haymaker 3-turn play with Miao Ying is not going to be worth the effort vs. just locking in your two regular flying level 4 wizards who are great value by themselves and much more flexible.
People are overreacting without thinking about what the army will actually look like or trying to assemble a list for themselves.
>>95904331>do you think launching with rules that break the balance of the game will see it do well in the long term?Units? Sure. Entire factions, a bit tougher. Don't think it's impossible though.
>Votann>Grey Knights>HarlequinsMost of those fell off because they had VERY little support after launch. The Grey Knight range is frankly embarrassing nowadays. Votann still don't have a second wave. And Harlequins somehow had less than Cathay and Votann did on launch.
>DaemonsDaemons are in a very weird spot because they existed long before they were a army of their own. I also think to whatever extent they have appeal it's not really as a separate army. Pretty much everybody that is into any particular chaos god owns daemons. I have pretty much never et somebody that is undivided Chaos Daemons.
>>95902774the weird thing is that the fluff text of the unit mentions them getting crossbows
one possibility is that they're not including the sprue of crossbows with the kit as included in the battalion box and will only include the crossbows sprue with the standalone release of the kit way down the line, like they're doing with the big saturnine dreadnought for horus heresy, one sprue of its weapons aren't in the bundle box but will be in the later standalone release
and if cathay is truly getting a second arcane journal later this year, and miao ying is delayed until then, then perhaps the standalone release of the jade warriors and their profile with crossbows will too
>>95904373Now if you could mount a Shugenga ON Miao Ying we'd be fucking talking
>>95904333Yes. Though, obviously, that doesn't mean shit. I don't see a invasion happening, for multiple reasons, but I have been wrong before.
>>95904375Daemons are also quite hard to balance as an army.
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>>95904117For me it's Chu
>>95904373She seems like a unit that could be REALLY powerful in the hands of a skilled player but largely a waste in the hands of a poor one.
>>95904349>inb4 the second arcane journal provides a lvl4 astromancer on foot, shugengan lord on foot, ld10 paesants archers chaff with poison arrows that reroll panic routing etc, and even more powerful magic items, including zhao ming with regeneration and 3+ armour
>>95904384Making them a army of their own is just a generally bad idea. At best all Daemon armies are something you are able to do in dedicated god armies.
>>95904390Just getting a cheap-ish level 4 wizard who can be foot or regular mounted and ranged troops in core would definitely boost the army a ton.
>>95904390The one part that does terrify me is the idea of bringing two dragons in a 2000 point game.
>>95904396Eh, chaos and helves can already do it. Managing two of the transforming dragons does sound like a huge headache to play.
>>95904373>she doesn't get you a balloon or sentinel as a special choicewho cares, you're spending your special choices allowance on cannons anyway.
>>95904396I thought the grand army capped cathayan dragons as 0-1 already
or did I read wrong and it was 0-1 per 1000pts?
>>95904415It's 1 per 1000pts.
Would be funny if there is some kind of special rule where if you bring more than one they start infighting.
>>95904411How many cannons and other characters are you planning on slotting in? I think if you're sticking with a single shugengan lord alongside miao ying you get fit in 4 basic or 3 upgraded. Then your army is miao ying, shugengan lord, 500 points of jade chaff and 3-4 cannons. That sounds OK but it's not amazing and I think plenty of competitive tournament armies have play into it.
This is what I mean. The low depth of the roster means it is quite hard to skew into something really obnoxious.
>>95904375Cathay is probably not going to get much support either given its SGS, but literally no one would play those factions literal weeks after release out of embarassment and Cathay will be no different.
>>95904336>Cathay wont displace current top table listsby any metric they can. It's as easy as shut down flying with 35 point banner, stunlock with cannons and season with your choice of unkillable statues, dragon characters who don't die on losing full wounds and magic.
>>95904373She wouldn't be that much of a problem if she didn't fucking heal D3 wounds with every transformation, couldn't get out of combat willy nilly, and didn't have that bullshit rule about challenges.
These are inexcusable rules additions.
I guess you CAN do maybe an 8 balloon army which is pretty fucking obnoxious.
>>95904391It only makes sense if you split the mono God armies like AOS did but lets be honest that didn't work in 40k, and in AOS only nurgle has a somewhat good range even though I like the idea of a tzaangors/beastman themed tzeentch army.
>>95904424I think it depends on how competitive minded your average ToS player is.
Besides, I'm just going to say it flat out: Nothing in this book looks as bad as Votann did.
>>95904424Cathay has already confirmed to be getting be getting a second book with a second wave of minis
>>95904429bro, your rule of 3?
>>95904424>It's as easy as shut down flying with 35 point bannerIt's not even the best anti-flying tech in the game. It always works but it's one use only. The beastman banner is better.
>stunlock with cannonsI think cannons or shugengan lords probably are the most broken thing in the roster, but a fully upgraded cannon is still 173 points or something. That's expensive, you cannot fit that many in the army.
>and season with your choice of unkillable statues, dragon characters who don't die on losing full wounds and magic.Statues look far from unkillable and as discussed the dragon transforming is very fancy but I think just worse than having a separate dedicated combat character (who is better at fighting than miao ying) and a separate level 4 wizard who can always leverage being a level 4 wizard.
>>95904435>but lets be honest that didn't work in 40k,It would have worked in 40K if they weren't so fucking autistic about Chaos Space marine armies.
>NO! Your world eaters can't field bikes.>Hope you didn't have any Raptors or other Jump pack unit, EC player!
>>95904384demons shouldn't be an army, but units that can be added to a chaos warriors army.
>>95904441Does that even exist in TOW? Do character mounts count, or do they count as separate units?
>>95904443How tanky are cannons?
>>95904338he might get released together with miao ying and the second journal
why even release a second journal without a special character for it?
>>95904427>She wouldn't be that much of a problem if she didn't fucking heal D3 wounds with every transformation, couldn't get out of combat willy nilly,Can you explain the sequence wherein you think this plays to the advantage of the Cathayan player? Because like:
>dragon is low on wounds>removes itself from combat, freeing up your unit, and locks itself out of being in combat for a turn>heals d3 but also switches to much more vulnerable human form>either joins a nearby jade warrior bunker (might be tricky with m4 infantry keeping up with a fly (9) dragon) or is now a very vulnerable lone foot characterIt sounds better than it will play. You will need to be really fucking careful with how you do it and have some kind of clear payoff in mind.
>didn't have that bullshit rule about challengesThis is a silly rule - why would a vampire lord, chaos lord or bretonnian duke be LESS likely to challenge a dragon - but overall I don't think will matter too much outside of challenging with sacrificial champions to limit dragon combat res.
>>95904447>Does that even exist in TOW?In tournament packs.
>>95904449T6 W3 and 3 crew without ogre upgrade, but you always take the ogre upgrade to add an extra 3 wounds, an ogre body and 1/game double shooting to the unit. More questionable if you add the gunpowder bombs at 8pts on top of that, but I think it has merit because it adds a decent stand and shoot reaction to the unit and makes them even more resistant to being picked off by light cav or skirmishers.
>>95904468> 3 Strategists in balloons> 2 Magistrates in balloons> 3 balloon unitsRule of 3 does nothing
>>95904468If character mounts count separate you can still get up to 7 I think.
>>95904465>Can you explain the sequence wherein you think this plays to the advantage of the Cathayan player?>dragon form, march forward and get into a fight with something>go back to human form, within 3" of a friendly unit so you're non-targettable, and spend the turn dispelling and casting>transform back into dragon form the next turn and prepare for the last combats
>>95904484the balloons are the same unit regardless of whether you mount a dude on top
>>95904489It sounds OK but it's also a sequence of
>not using your level 4>not using your dragon>not using your level 4And it's dependent on having that friendly unit nearby which an opponent can 100% mess with. IDK, if you get left on 1 wound in a dragon vs. dragon matchup it's a nice escape valve, circumstances depending, but your dragon will also be winning fights against most things so triggering it and removing the dragon from the fight will often feel like a waste.
>>95904373As scary as she is, I think people will prefer using the shugengan lord and instead pay the points for sentinels as beatsticks to kill other dragons
one jade sentinel for an utility spell and one obsidian sentinel for extra antimagic
>>95904510Yep, I agree double Shugengan looks like a better bet than Miao Ying. Though I think the jade sentinel just mogs all the other options.
>>95904514Yes, but there are other antimagic tools in the army, once you start stacking them up I think you might get to a really oppressive point.
>>95904520I definitely like that any double within 18" is a miscast thing on the flying (9) lord, that's slugging it out with the infernal puppet for disruption.
>>95904349>They don't beat Mortuary Cult at magic.Until their gay caskets gets obliterated by double firing cannons, or their mages flies by with that any double is a miscast item
>>95904443>The beastman banner is better35 pts vs ~150 pts investment, one is guaranteed, other is like 75% chance. One can capitalize with ranged firepower, the other cant
>>95904538>35 pts vs ~150 pts investmentHow do you work this out? Are you forgetting they are both banners?
>>95902432why is the ligma, an obvious analog to a pegasus, statted like a monster?
>>95904540because it's big and part dragon
>>95901962Anyone who thinks this outfights a chaos lord is a retard nogame twat
>>95904539>How do you work this out? Are you forgetting they are both banners?It's on unmodified leadership, you essentially need it on a minimal bestigore unit with veteran to make it semi reliable
Reactions to the Cathay release show who is knowledgable about the game and who isn't
>>95904551>Anyone who thinks this outfights a chaos lord is a retard nogame twatThe chaos lord is going to get shot to pieces by artillery long before it reaches her
>>95904551She does hit on 3s, wound on 3s, strike first and reroll missed hits which is pretty nice. She'll take a couple of wounds off.
>>95904423>miao ying>500pts spent between one extra elite unit of jade warriors, one unit of jade lancer, and maybe a detachment of warriors>3 ogre loaded cannons>2 jade sentinels
Vampire Counts, Skaven, Lizardmen when?
>>95904565Just like how every empire player is shooting dragons off all the time with the exact same cannons but cheaper :clueless:
>>95904574Still over a year and a half away
TOW2.0 trust the plan!
>>95904579How good is 12 great cannon shots first turn for 900 points anyway.
That seems like it would oppress a lot of armies.
>>95904574VC this Halloween
>>95904579the cathay cannons shoot twice
>but one per gamethey're only going to need one turn of shooting twice
tell me what monster survives 6 cannon shots
>>95904589>tell me what monster survives 6 cannon shotsA granite sentinel :^)
>>95904589if you're dumb that you put your 600+ point lord of your army in the open and not screened or protected by hills, yeah eat shit I guess haha
>>95904606>spend 600 points on a combat lord>have to hide them in the back for the whole game Cool
>>95904579Can empire double shoot, turn off flying, debuff movement and give random move D6? The dragon is going to move up at half the rate it usually does
>>95904606>get your lord against miao ying>*teleports on your flank*>6 cannon shots to the lordeh, nothing lersonnel
>>95904560no it just shows who is willing to talk shit and who is going to wait and see actual results because the community has never been good at speculation. That said you can't really claim people like SB don't know the game after running multiple tournaments and their reaction has all been the same disbelief at the power scaling
Did you niggers forget that we will get a rules update and balance changes before cathay drops???
>>95904666>beforenope, they drop alongside cathay, meaning cathay will stay as it is
the rules updates won't touch the lacklustre army/profile/spell rules of some factions, and the point updates can only go so far, and will certainly be aimed first and foremost at dumbing down what's meta, which won't affect cathay which can be considered strong now against the current meta, let alone after the nerfs to everyone else.
>>95904666>just made a 2000 point list and am in the process of building itIf I have to redo my list Iโm going to be very sad
>>95902753I buy from a local recaster, thus supporting small business. Fuck industrial scale yoy faggotry too, its product is as shitty and brittle as proontrash.
>>95904560Is this really where you find yourself?
Resorting to impotent bitching after being unable to formulate a coherent argument?
>>95904380Hot, but what if the shugengan is her daughter?
>>95904753That's cute.
Like a mother giving her kid a piggy ride.
>>95904301>Why do you assume that?Because you continuously conflate the health of a gaming community with the financial success of a product.
If GW releases objectively awry-wanked factions they deserve to be criticized for it, not shielded behind;
>b-but we w-want the old world to be a success guys
>>95904439>with a second wave of ministhis isn't confirmed though unless you're counting Miao Yang herself as a wave
>>95904769>Because you continuously conflate the health of a gaming community with the financial success of a product.I don't. I conflate the health of a product line with the financial success of a product. Because, you know, that's how it works.
>If GW releases objectively awry-wanked factions they deserve to be criticized for it, not shielded behind;I have some doubt about how bad it is. But, overall, I don't disagree. I just don't think that changes the fact that I'm still rooting for the models to sell because I want more products like this.
That fucking monkey bonk stick on a shugengan lord seems fucking stupid.
It's tough enough to tank hits and then good luck surviving the retaliatory strike. Now I got a new arms race with my friend. Meteoric Iron, here I come!
>>95904785>I finally have a excuse to play my Dragon Ball figure as a actual character.Nice!
>>95904775We have art of Crow Men and a Moon Bird, which don't have models yet, so we can probably make a decent assumption that those will get models since only thing we see in art these days are GW models
>>95904810Are they playable in Total War?
>>95902917Nah, that claim is complete bull.
If Yin-Yin ever shows up in TOW as a unit, it'll be under the 'Cathayan Dragon' umbrella, just like Miao Ying.
>Want to make a Empire army.
>Refuse to buy from GW
What are some good places to find historical figures to use as proxies?
>>95904819>Can shift each turn for 1d3 heal>Dies and come back for d3 heal>Potentially 28 wounds on a 6 toughness armoured and ward saved dragon caster.Why.
>>95904831Warlord Games, Victrix, Perry Minis I think are some.
>>95904831Unironically Perry Miniatures is a good alternative.
Also, you can just at one of OP's links.
>>95904831Landsknecht Starter Army set from Warlord Games is probably a decent place to start
>>95904831Perry miniatures
Or sunland if you 3d print.
>>95904837>Victrix>perry miniaturesThose sell thirty year war stuff?
>>95904841Sunland is more Empire proxy than Historical model, might as well recomandded the Reptillian Overlord Empire models while your at it
>>95904832GOTTA SHOW THE SHAREHOLDERS CATHAY NUMBERS!
>>95904846Not sure at all I just tried to list off some places doing historical stuff hoping it'd be what was needed.
>>95902070WHF lore? Everyone.
TOW retcon fanon slop? Trannies.
>>95904861They are fantastic for Bretonnia(And chaos marauders), no doubt about that. They are the places I usually go to for historical stuff. But neither one has much for the thirty year war. Granted, Perry miniatures has English civil war and Halberdiers that probably work.
>>95904810I don't really expect the moon bird, they only added that in total war because the crowmen dlc was poorly received
I do expect the crowmen, however
>>95904874Villain songs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ocm8QdNR_d8
>>95904868I also didn't think we would get it, but it being in a piece of official GW art basically guarantees it's going to get a model.
GW only shows model-accurate stuff in their art now, and TOW has been consistent with that when it's not just reusing artwork from WFB, or Warhammer video games
>>95904560It doesn't matter if Cathay doesn't overthrow Bretonnia and Tomb Kings lists competitively. Competitive play is a niche within a niche. The problem, and what anons have been rightfully complaining about, is that their rules are obnoxious! Annoying! Gay! Compfags will be compfags, trust me, I've seen what they can do to the game. I really don't care about the competitive meta anymore. I care about casual play and Cathay will make casual play unfun.
Second part of the Cathay sculpting article.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/pkxzhver/old-world-almanack-sculpting-the-great-and-the-good-of-grand-cathay/
>>95904893Casual play mostly depends on the player in the first place. If somebody shows up with something that actually looks like a army I doubt they will be that hard to fight.
>>95904897I wonder if I could kitbash that one eyed fellow into a decent Xiahou Dun.
>>95904888Your assumption is flawed: the dragon emperor and the moon empress aren't going to get made just because they are in that artwork and there's lots of random doodles that don't really feature anything that will ever receive a model, in the leaked pages there's even a sentinel warrior with a back banner thing that's not on the model, so the 1:1 accuracy of artworks isn't even consistent.
It would be a different story if it was a full normal standalone artwork like the one you now posted, clearly meant for a box art, but a random appearance in the corner of a piece like that is not an assurance.
The directive to show in art only stuff they've got models for has been pretty much cancelled years and years ago by now.
Is there a wizard you get to point on the sky lantern in the TWW game?
>>95904785Honestly I think this looks decently strong. He can take illusion too with a 5/6 chance of getting doppelganger. Base 3+/5++ save, T5, 7 wounds, striking back with mount attacks + 4 S10 AP-4 d3 wounds and then getting 2d6 auto-hits if he gets the spell off. You can afford to spend big on weapons for the shugengan lords because they come with most defenses built in. I actually like taking this on one and the regen blade on the other.
is this any good as an addition to the batallion box?
i knwo the value is decent but i wonder if 10 bestigors alone can really work?
>>95904923>Is there a wizard you get to point on the sky lantern in the TWW game?no
Astomancers get either the Great Moon Bird, horse or a War Compass as a mount in TWW
I can't remember what Alchemists get as mount, probably a horse option
>>95904897Have to say the sky lantern and miao ying really are gorgeous models.
>>95904939Yeah.
I really hope the Sky Lantern crew aren't attached to the thing. They are such characterful models, wouldn't mind trying to use them for other things.
>>95904932if it's still selling at the rrp then there is no reason not to take it since you'll always want dragon ogres just to run as lone units and the box is only 50% more than the drogre kit.
>>95904953in what world would they be attached? the article even mentions painting them separately and the eyepatch dude having a peg leg
>>95904932push comes to shove, use 2 of them to convert a beastlord and a battle standard bearer and the other 8 for unit champions for your other units or to make beastmen chariots in plastic by replacing the crew of the orc chariots
>>95904953Sadly your cool cathayan pirate crew come attached to an 190 dollar balloon.
>>95904897>there are two head options โ one intended to be more masculine with larger horns, and a feminine version that has a horn on the nose, along with smaller horns on the headI like that you can chose the sex of the Longma. Cool detail to include.
>but WHAT IF I spent $500 on cathayan models just to kitbash a counts-as-marienburgers mordheim warband complete with ogre bodyguard hired sword
>delightfully devilish, seymour
>>95905011weird they're not showing it though
even weirder you get to choose the sex of the longma but not the sex of the rider, that one can only be a woman
>>95905011Mounting my female Shugengan Lord on a male Spirit Longma. Because of the implication.
>>95905019luckily, recasters provide bits services on requests
>>95904993>in what world would they be attached? A very bad one. So, possibly this one.
>>95905008I could attach them with magnets...
>>95905025Name her "Yuu jus-now".
>>95905019My actual plan for Marienburg warband is mostly historical pikemen and Dutch sailors I already own as part of blood and plunder.
did they forget to add the points cost of a longma to the shiggydiggy lord? these fuckers are insane
>>95904922>in the leaked pages there's even a sentinel warrior with a back banner thing that's not on the modelIf the kit proves successful enough they will definitely add upgrade sprues to it like they periodically do with the imperial knights in 40k
it would allow them to make the super special gundam sentinel character too
>>95905025>>95905064Everytime I hear the name pronounced in TWW, it reminds me of the lyrics "Sugar Pie, Honey Bunch" from that one old song.
>Normal soldiers look like a bitch to paint.
>Sentinels are probably done in a day.
Huh...
1553
md5: 4f1a05f5358498741197630cd00f8638
๐
Bit of a shame that you can't take a Shugengan Lord on foot.
>>95905105can't have units that don't have Games Workshopโข official models anon, especially for the NPC faction
>>95905064considering how griffs and similar cost roughly 120-150pts, if anything they forgot to factor the cost of the heroes themselves
a 100 points short at the very least in both cases
>>95905103You could paint the soldiers as terracotta stuff too.
>>95905126True.
I mean, I won't, but you could.
>>95905119Don't other Arcane Journals actually feature units that don't have official models?
>>95905123A longma is not on the powerlevel of a griffon.
>>95905119Eeh, they could have at least included an 'on foot' option within the sprue, like they did with the Empire Commanders.
>>95905150They did for the gate master
>>95905144same strength and weapon, same skill, same toughness, same (if not more) extra wounds, same (if not greater) speed, more armor
one less attack
it's not equivalent to a dragon and it's not equivalent to a pegasus, it's equivalent to a griff, give or take 10-20pts
>>95905150a shugengan on foot would have made the army even more broken and highlighted just how underpriced the ligma horse is.
file
md5: 75fe043409170322332c385c1f117b89
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My battalion box has arrived and I have assembled eight glade guard and eight deepwood scouts.
Additonally, I painted four of the glade guard for my autumnal WElves army.
What do you think, anons? Any criticism?
>>95905175Very good. Not my favorite models in the world, but your paint scheme looks very solid.
>>95902454Look at the Lantern entry, then look at the special rule that follows "Feigned Flight".
>>95902620They're better than other melee infantry taxes. Which everyone who can take something else doesn't take.
>>95904819>>95904832Haven't any of you dumb fucks ever heard of the concept called: "Pay-To-Win" which is commonly found in almost every single competitive game? GW needs Miao Ying to be broken justify that +$200 price tag. Going over +$200 is pushing it consider a lot of single entity AoS miniatures are just around that range and Old World isn't exactly 40k levels of popularity where they can get away with charging an arm and a leg.
Whatโs the lore basis on Jade Lancers having Ambush?
>>95905194Image isn't really the best example considering that Gargants in AoS are the equivalent of a DPS check.
>>95905175They all appear to be shooting in different directions. Those poor wood elves must be completely surrounded.
>random move d6 hex as a signature spell
aaaaiiiieeeeeeeeeeee
>>95905230Really funny when you compare it to Winds of Chaos.
>>95903613Buy a 3d printer.
>>95905197I think they mentioned getting trained to ride in the tight confines of city streets and shit, so maybe it's because they get to traverse forests or other cramped terrain fast and that gets them to flank an enemy army.
but more likely it's just because the army is missing light cavalry and skirmishing options, so they're arbitrarily given one this way.
>>95905074You don't need a special sprue to give a model a back banner or even a custom banner of your own making. Brass rod, polystyrene rod, plasticard sheet or paper, that's all you need.
>>95903217Get glasses mate, you were responding to someone who said that other armies had useful units in core.
>>95903205Not at all. Im fine with others armies being in a good spot.
The thing is the empire is not only underdeveloped in both the Arcane Journal and FoF book, it also makes no fcking sense pointwise or rulewise when you put in the context of the other human armies.
Ill put it like this, even when casual games leave such a really bad taste on your mouth, you know something is wrong with your army.
miao ying will lose to my beastlord
>>95905281She does have strong rapebait energy.
>>95905250The one in the artwork is not a normal back banner, I just don't know what's called, it's this buddhist(?) thing here https://youtu.be/gU7lSv8DUWU?t=1h20m35s
>>95905281Inshghorros, raa roo!
>>95903683Mixed bag. Some select stuff that ranges from overtuned to absolutely broken, in the middle of a list of stuff that's good but is missing stuff.
>>95905286Oh. Yeah, that does look really chinesy. Get a brass ring and start sculpting it with putty, maybe. I don't know, models aren't supposed to reflect the art 1:1.
>>95905105Did the whole book leak or just select unit entries?
>>95905305The video here goes through all the rules
>>95905286
>>95905105This sets a bad precedent. Characters are supposed to be represented by profiles with extensive amounts of customization. This reeks of AoS/40k style rules-writing, where a daemon prince and a daemon prince with wings are 2 completely separate profiles for no good reason.
>>9590531240k went into the deep end because they replaced point costs of models and equipment options with one power level for the entire unit regardless of its equipment
the result is something as drastic as the ability to fly needs to be a different unit profile so it can get a different power level value
>>95905064you can't take the Shugengan lord on foot he comes preattached to the Longma
Can anyone explain why people are butthurt over Cathay getting this "Celestial Forged Armor (X+)" as part of their army special rules? The best armour Cathay can get is Heavy Armour (Miao Ying is the only exception because dragon scales count as Full Plate Armour in dragon form), which is only a +5 Armour Save. Meanwhile, other armies like Empire get Full Plate Armour which is a +4 Armour Save. Dwarfs on top of that get Gromril Armour which let's them rerolls 1s on their Armour Saves.
>>95905362It's one of the many unnecessary extra rules that make the army way overtuned in all aspects.
Not having plate armor is a laughable drawback when your monstrous steed adds 2 points of armor anyway.
>>95905362Because they stole if from my army.
>>95905362I'm personally butthurt because that's exactly how chaos armour works in this edition and it only applies to chaos characters (5+) and chosen (6+) while my regular warriors and knights are stuck with just heavy armour like a bunch of chumps.
>>95904489So basically you get two turns of your dragon being a dragon over 5 turns. Assuming she doesn't eat a combat lord with an ogre blade or equivalent, a monster hunter or an artillery park at some point. Know
I mean, it's effective points denial, I will grant you that, but doing that means she has less game impact.
>>95905357indulge me
how many points do you think the 145 point hero would be if he had no mount?
>>95905362hahahaha what
Their wizards get a 27" dispel range every other turn?
>>95905392But you also get to have Full Plate Armour where you get to roll on +4 instead of a +5.
In some non-Cathay News, The New TOW RPG is going to be available today approximately at 4 pm UK/Irish time (one hour)
>>95905414That's only for chaos lords and chosen, anon. Everything else either has no armour, light armour, or heavy armour.
>>95905392>>95905396That rule only applies to 2 people: Miao Ying and Shugengans.
>>95905417hope it's uploaded fast, looking forwards to reading the fluff
>>95905420Didn't Chaos Warriors get to have Full Plate in 8th Edition?
>>95905423Nuh-uh, your jade warriors and lances can get it if this Miao twat is your general.
>>95905150the GW that released the empire general on foot was a very different company zoom-kun
>>95905431Yes, but TOW is not 8th.
In total war the shoogengan lords are on foot and have cool kung fu moves
>>95905432>IfMiao Ying is not going to be released for at least another couple a months to the end of 2025.
>>95905405What does a Loremaster of Hoeth cost on foot?
If we're talking about the Shugengan General, I would say about 95 points with no other upgrades
>>95905445A problem that will only rear its ugly free ward save shaped head later is still a problem.
>>95905445We have her rules and 3d modelers exist
>>95905417Are we expecting some in-depth worldbuilding or just the minimal introduction and then crunch for the game itself?
>>95905445>implying people won't proxy or print
>>95905455This.
Im going to show up with a Tiki Amibo and a plush dragon until we get the official model.
>>95905414I want more Full plate.
I want my basic Warriors to have 2 attack and Full Plate again.
I want my WS6 Chosen back.
>>95905362>>95905445Does anybody have the math for which is better:
>A 50% chance Armour Save (Full Plate) Or
>2 chances 33% Saves, one from Heavy Armour and one from Ward
>>95905493dude, it's simple math.
and besides that, the ward save doesn't get deleted by armour penetration, so it's not just marginally better. it's better period
>>95905455>>95905480Good luck using them in tournaments where the Tournament Organizers can just enforce the "No Proxies" or "No non-GW Minis" rule in order to not have to deal with this shit.
>>95905520They should simply ban cathay in general until gw makes a step back.
>>95905515Magic also exists.
>>95905493At least one 5+ on two dice is 55.56%, slightly better than 4+ on one die
>>95905532In what way does magic make plate armor better?
>>959054935+/5++ is mathematically better.
But the only model with that is Miao's human form.
>>95905547There are spell giving a 5+ ward. I think that's what they were referring to.
>People excited to play Cathay right now
I made my friend, who was trying wood elves, salty after I steam rolled him. Was saying calculating combat res was taking too long, but I get it, as the wardancers did SFA so I jsut said "Ya, lets do it another way next time".
Will write it up next thread.
>>95905520I have zero desire to play tournaments, nor do I imagine Cathay will shake up the tournament scene.
Does anybody have any good suggestions for proxys for marauders? Can't stand the goofy marauders that GW sells. Both 3d print and miniatures will do
>>95905473maybe a lot of detail on Tallgradd but i wouldn't expect a lot of detail on the rest of the setting
>>95905633avatars of war has marauders in plastic
>>95901891 (OP)>TQYes. I'm more excited to see whether or not Cathay will actually sell. The Cathay battalion box could end up like another AoS Dominion or Skaventide where they were literally giving them away for free at conventions and tournaments.
>>95905633There's nothing goofy about marauders, anon.
>>95904864>>95904772The lore is mostly trite, even before the old world reckoning. I thought people were mainly interested in the old world because itโs the only rank and flank with a plausible interest.
>>95905653>they were literally giving them away for free at conventions and tournaments.Wasn't all that just /wfg/ propaganda and/or hopium that AoS would crash burn so GW would come crawling back to the old WHFB players and start begging for forgiveness?
>>95905417a review for TOWRPG, which just makes it sound like a less crunchy WFRP set in a different time and with weird art choices like Impreal Billie D Williams here.
>https://professionalcasual.com/2025/06/18/rpg-review-warhammer-the-old-world-rpg/
>>95905698>Billie D Williamsnigga you blind
>>95905706IDK it's what came to my mind when I saw the image
>>95905681The lore is massive for WHFB/TOW perrynigger despite your hatred for it. One of the biggest draws has always been the lore and models before the game.
>>95905690The topic discussing Skaventide's failure is still active on /tg/ here:
>>95898776
>>95902070I do, I want to make sure my judgement is grounded on stuff other than assumptions and I want to see if they incidentally touch on other stuff.
>>95905722They keep shoving Sigmarines in every box
No one wants fucking sigmarines
>Wumaohammer Fantasy
Why are gw doing this, are they trying to get planning permission for a Chinese factory?
>>95905698That's clearly Imperial Orlando Bloom.
>>95905756They already have a Chinese factory for Terrain and books, and GW gets big tax breaks in the UK if the majority of production stays in the UK, so I don't think that's the case
They probably just want to get a bigger hold of the Chinese mainland market.
>>95905756>Chinese factoryan easy recipe for disaster
they just want to catch the hypothetical warhammer fans who love cathay and the hypothetical chinese market who loves warhammer but prefers to be nationalistic even in fiction
>>95905653>The World's Greatest Fantasy Miniature Game โขGod nu-GW are such colossal faggots
>>95905698He seems fine to me.
>>95905658You're a fucking legend and a scholar. I've managed to use my Marauders with flails a number of times and they've fucking kicked some hard shit in. Love you man!
TOW RPG is up for sale, only the Player Guide is up as a PDF.
>>95905593>calculating combat res takes too long ??? It's some very basic addition. I suppose if you didn't know how to do and had it look up it could take while.
>>95905719>now being called Perry At least he has models, not someone who regurgitates a regurgitated setting. But you do you anon.
>>95905653I mean it's not a limited run box so I can't imagine it will pan out the same regardless
>>95905681No most people who play any version of warhammer are playing it because it's warhammer, not because it's a wargame.
>>95905787It was arbitrary cause I was calculating for both of us and he got frustrated. It's addition, sure, but just seeing "Ok close order, X amount of kills, you don't so...". I saw his point of course, but also it was likely instigated that he was losing horribly. Valid criticism though.
>>95905789Simply having models means little if you play no games
The new map for TOW RPG, which is nice can't think WFRP ever bothered with a nice map of Talabacland
>>95905799As a new wood elf player, getting charged usually means my leadership test is at a -5 or 6 in this meta so I can kind of understand it
But I played beasts through 7th and 8th so I'm at least used to removing my stuff by the handful
>>95905789>thinks calling a supported setting regurgitated is an insultyeah, I guess we cant all play by ourselves setting up dioramas and begging our wives, some of us actually get to have fun with our hobbies.
>>95905811Looks like SHIT compared to glorious Cathay in don't understand why empire serf even bother to stay alive and don't kill themselves on the spot
>>95905716Now I can't unsee it
But it's kinda sweet
>>95905863Have you seen their gunpowder weapons?
They would miss.
>>95905722Don't care.
Like both settings and will use models for both.
>>95905653From the rumors I heard, they massively under produced the Cathay box.
Like the largest distributor in my state got ONE fucking box (East Coast State)
>>95905875They did the same with TOWs release
I could see it as GW being overall cautious, which I don't think is an unfair thing to do if they think it's not going to sell but I'm pretty sure everyone thought this was going to do well
>>95905362Because the book is overtuned and full of them poaching unique shit from other factions and slapping it in here
>>95905890may favorite part is that the jade warriors have detachment, because why should empire have things?
List of all the careers in the player guide for TOWRPG
>>95905836For sure, heck I had my Khorne Warriors break (proper break) and get run down my DORFS. It happens. But he isn't used to that, and don't get me wrong, he didn't spaz, but you know, had that mini frustration induced complaint.
Didn't take away from it and we'll hope to play TT soon once he gets his cathay. Also, hilariously, all my grinding on Shadow of the Horned Rat has helped me positionally immensely!
>>95905942That's because even a lowly Jade Warrior is the equivalent of Bretonnias noble sons.
>>95905971You forgot to put the asterisk on noble
>>95905971>eq of a noble>basic foot soldier Ahh yes the 500pts of them at 8ppm will really sell to me how unique and rare they are
>>95905971I was actually underwhelmed by the Jade Warriors. I was concerned they were going to be Chaos Warrior tier, but in fact, they're just S3 and T3 with WS5 and a 4+ armour save. Not a big deal.
>>95905995S4 with halbs, ws6 often, 8ppm
What's the opposite of concern trolling? This faggots been at it all day
>>95906019I haven't no. And WS6 is only with Maio Ying and other shenanigans.
>S4 with HalbsLike everyone with halberds?
>8ppmThey shit on State troops but overall aren't anything major.
>>95906019Don't forget rerolling saves of 1
You can buy 2, almost 3 if CW decked out, jade warriors for the price of 1 chaos warrior, but that's moreso chaos warriors bring overpriced I think. But just goes to show that Cathays "most basic" model mods most other factions infantry in efficency. For melee at least.
>>95906056Other than bret peasants and primal fury gors who's infantry is boasting that level of performance for that price?
>umm sweaty the top event tables don't use these units only use ranged.But 95% of us aren't competitve and even those WAACfags don't always bring Uber optimized lists. So if your "weakest" infantry is miles above other infantry you have a problem in balance. Higher weaponskill is just about as good as toughness (in that you block like 18% of hits) often, and 4+ rerolling 1s or 5+ rerolling ones with s4 are both extremely effective when on mass infantry.
>>95906098I ain't saying they're hot garbage by any means anon. In fact I was anticipating them to be equal to chaos warriors in stats, but also suffer the super cheap points cost. Essentially my expectations were much, much higher as the last thing I want to see is hardcore powercreep like 7th ed Daemons.
Yes they're definitely over tuned, the whole army list is. But not, at least jade warriors in and of themselves, completely off the wall stupid.
>>95906110I don't mind the army list being a bit overtuned frankly considering how small it is.
Cathay feels like a fighting game final boss that has all the movesets of all the other fighters
>>95906135>Cathay is the Seth of factions.
>>95905966Got a bestiary section in there?
>>95906135ummm actually it was cathay who invented all those moves first so it's only natural
>>95906157not in the player guide I would guess it's coming with the GM Guide next month
>>95906098Orc and goblins
>>95906118I'd be inclined to agree. Plus on paper they seem hot but, let's see in action.
>>95906135Shang Tsung?
>>95906118This is the problem tho. There's no way to adjust Cathay other than to be overtuned. Which means if your local buys Cathay if you want fair games, they can't really flex around easily. So you have to either 1-buy more models if you want to have a fair game or 2-just accept defeat. High eleves don't have to spam dragons, bretonnia Pegasus, tomb kings can still bring skellies and other units besides mortuary. But Cathay? Everything is limited and overtuned so your army will have to be optimized to stand a chance. This shit limits either your opponents options or their chance of winning. Its a bad design to overtune this hard.
I wonder if so many people would be butthurt if kislev got rules on a similar power level as cathay.
>>95906226Nah, Kislev is an old army so it would have cred and would be attributed to regular bad balancing rather than GW sales department pushing broken stuff.
The REAL Kislev shitstorm will come if they resemble TW3 Kislev instead of their old selves.
>>95906183I'm assuming you mean black orcs and not goblin spear blocks or even basic orcs. Both which are considered overtuned btw.
>>95906226The answer is the same amount of people, despite what you want to believe.
>>95906225Yeah, and if cathays units would be undertuned, they would be stuck with them since they have no other options.
>>95903286>white people west>white people north>white people east>white people south>it was never ethnically homogenous
>>95906259Are we considering beastmen and the French white now
>>95906225I think, overall, it won't be too bad in casual scenarios if you keep it reasonable. Fielding a dragon in a 1000 point game is obviously not that. But just playing a normal gunline + Defense with some heroes probably won't be that unreasonable going up against Chaos or Bretonnia.
>>95906267Nta but I am 100% sure albino beastmen exist
>>95906248>Oh noes my new army will not stomp everyoneThis is your brain on WAAC
I was introduced to beastmen at their nadir yet I didn't run fleeing, and even now when beastman are strong they aren't popular. What if army asthetics and gameplay were more important than being OP? Like if jade warriors and shugen were more expensive does that detract from their rules or play on the table so much?
>>95904329Check Warhammer Armies Project.
>>95906259>Ethnicity just means your skin color.>Ignore how every province of the Empire is basically their own ethnicity. >With racism between provinces being about as common as racism against other humans. Places like Reikland, Marienburg, and even Nuln to a lesser extent are also very cosmopolitan and mercenaries are very popular.
>>95906286You are forgetting in principal Warhammer is seen as mostly competitive.
For context, my first opponent brought ruby ring of ruin, poisoned gobbos and 4 artillery pieces even after I said I was new.
>>95906302>You are forgetting in principal Warhammer is seen as mostly competitive.Depends on the game and the player. Most Ork players I know just want to play their weird meme builds.
>>95905966How does arcane and hedge wizard differ? Can they take different lores and that? Also, how are brettonian wizards fluffed given the fae take all magically inclined kids, is it just a case of "Oh yeah take this career if you want to play a damsel" or is there some actual explanation?
>>95906302Yeah you got a shit meta mate, most warhammer metas are old players returning with their models from editions past not optimized waacfaggotry.
>>95906293>>Ignore how every province of the Empire is basically their own ethnicity.all of them white ethnicities
>>95906286There is a difference between stomping everyone and not being undertuned.
Doubt jade warriors will stomp many things. And it's better for a army with little options that those options are at least good.
>>95906335Okay? And? Still not ethnically homogenous. Bretonnia is probably more homogenized and even they are prone to regionalism.
>>95906317Carrers seem pretty broad, looking at the player guide,e so the Arcane Wizards is just the career you would have if your PC was a High elf mage or Damsel from Brettonia.
The main distinction between Arcane Wizards and Hedge Wizards is that Arcane Wizards learned from books and other sources and generally have a noble patron protecting them from Witch hunters whereas Hedge Wizards' it is all Oral traditions and rural wanderings
>>95906356Pretty much. You can expect them to fight most other infantry and not get totally destroyed. Which is good since they are literally the only infantry you have.
>>95906327Its ok, I got one other bloke, my second opp, who is on the same page as me. Lovely chap. I just know from reading here and others, on *average* most people lean closer to WAAC than Narrative on the spectrum.
>>95906366Ah nice, does it explicitly say that the arcane wizard is the stand in for Damsel etc. or is that just your inferrence?
>>95906358>Okay? And?then you should agree depictions of black skinned imperials are out of place.
>>95906356Again, you can drop the act. If the lowest thing is jade warriors and the rest is increasingly overscaled in power it's going to be miserable for your opponent. On the scale of undertuned to op, if you are introducing a new faction keeping it relatively in line allows people to get comfortable, rule test, and enjoy games before you power them up. But I suppose GW realized long ago waacfaggots are the best whales so I'm probably pissing in the wind here
>>95906390Not really, no. Especially if it takes place in Reikland or Marienburg.
>>95906377They mention on the career page
>>95906398>Not really, noHypocrite and dishonest that you are.
>>95906293Medieval "racism" between french and english or english and scots don't change the fact they were all whites.
Same for the Empire.
>>95906438No, it just shows the concept of white doesn't exist in real life.
Besides, in the context of Warhammer i imagine being a human is far more important. Your average dirt poor peasant will be far more hateful towards a Elf than they will be towards a fellow human. Even some weirdo from Araby.
>>95906396Whatever, shizo.
I preorderd cathay at my LGS before rules were revealed and Im just happy they don't suck. I don't care if it makes grogs lose their shit.
>>95906420because you're defending the depiction of black imperials by arguing that the empire was always multiethnic, but when confronted with the fact those multiple ethnicities aren't black, and agreeing with that fact, you don't stop defending the the depiction of black imperials
you're a hypocrite because you fail to be consistent with what you argue and you're dishonest because you were making an argument that you knew was irrelevant to what you actually want to defend
The stuff about the Cathay balloons makes me think they'll be present in DoW if those ever show up. Also Yin-Yin being a Navy/Air Force focus since she's probably off being a pirate.
>>95906456I don't think you were the same anon but if so well... good luck getting games for a while
>>95906468She failed so badly there was ONE (1) survivor. If anything, she'd do her best to avoid the navy.
>>95906447>No, it just shows the concept of white doesn't exist in real life.It exists the moment you introduce nonwhites in the equation, the only reason european peasants weren't screaming nigger at each other was because africans were, for all real practical purposes, less common around them than unicorns, and the same is for the empire, there's no significant percentage of southlanders at any level of their society.
>>95906489I mean ya but that's after the current point in time isn't it? Yin yin being an abject failure is part of her charm.
>>95906468Both are highly unlikely.
>>959064661: Like I said, the Empire is cosmopolitan. 2: You were confusing whiteness for actual ethnicity. in the context of the HRE, which famously WAS fairly ethnically diverse even if you ignore the fact Germany was very divided.
>>95906501I thought it happened already but if not, she did something to not have her flag. Also bit weird for a human dragon hybrid sailing with mortals than just flying.
If marauders with flails on foot are insane, I wonder if mounted ones will be even better. I'll have to find some horses for these fellas before I can plan anything, though.
>>95906447>the concept of earth orbiting around the sun was not known at the time so it does not exist
>>95906500>It exists the moment you introduce nonwhites in the equationSo it doesn't exist.
>, the only reason european peasants weren't screaming nigger at each other was because africans were, for all real practical purposes, less common around them than unicorns,The reason is because they had no reason to scream at people that lived far away when the people in the next town over would suffice Tribalism is real, not denying that. But the form it takes is nearly always arbitrary.
>and the same is for the empire, there's no significant percentage of southlanders at any level of their society.Marienburg literally has districts for foreigners. Reikland is a hotbed of weirdoes, outcasts, and other folks.
>>95906532100%. There is a reason they are seeing meta play. However hold your horses for a fortnight, we got a mid edition patch incoming.
>>95906534The earth rotating around the sun always existed, whiteness was made up.
>>959065161: you keep arguing in circle about how they're cosmopolitan because each province has its own ethnicity, but none of them justifies black imperials
2: I wasn't, you're confusing having multiple ethnicities as having black ethnicities, neither the HRE or the empire have significant amounts of black people.
>>95906468DoW 2.0 will probably have more DaVinci flying machines.
>>95906535>foreignersnot southlanders
>weirdoes, outcasts, and other folksnot southlanders
>>95906541>1: you keep arguing in circle about how they're cosmopolitan because each province has its own ethnicity, but none of them justifies black imperialsNo, they are cosmopolitan because they literally are one of the largest nations in the world and are known to trade with everybody.
>I wasn't,Anon... Please... Have some dignity.
>you're confusing having multiple ethnicities as having black ethnicitiesNo? I don't think they have black ethnicities. I do think you, a player, being a black person living in the Empire isn't that implausible.
>>95906480Won't be a problem at my club, don't worry.
>>95906553>Marienburg literally has a place called Arabtown.And before you try to get clever and claim that Arabs aren't from the Southlands, they 100% unquestionably are in Warhammer.
>weirdoes, outcasts, and other folksThe place is generally portrayed as somewhere where, yeah, you can probably encounter a random southlander there.
>>95906402How do I meet this goth Elspeth Jr.?
>>95906558>isn't that implausible.how can it be plausible if they don't live in the empire in any significant number? is it plausible to have an imperial monkeyman from the mountains of heaven because it's a player character?
>>95906468DoW showing up is pretty unlikely. But, yeah, I could see them being playable.
>>95906576Just buy her model anon
https://www.warhammer.com/en-GB/shop/empire-of-man-necromancer-wizard-and-familiar-2025?queryID=f6e3e723e6cb8e01ada6b2f44edbcec1
>>95906573>Marienburg literally has a place called Arabtown.which suggests self segregation and not integration into imperial society
>you can probably encounter a random southlanderno, they don't suddenly teleport half the planet to appear in the slums
post yfw you stomp Cathay
>>95906577>how can it be plausible if they don't live in the empire in any significant number?Because they are there and we know that.
> is it plausible to have an imperial monkeyman from the mountains of heaven because it's a player character?I mean, I can't speak for every GW but if you can come up with a good enough excuse I would be fine with that. Could be kind of funny even to roleplay as some Cathayan tourist visiting the Empire. Especially considering Amsterdam has plenty of Chinese tourists.
>>95906571Considering your purposefully buying the op army because you got spanked by one dude chances are you're the faggot of the club. It will catch up. Until then, well let us know when your unpainted Cathay army goes live on marketplace.
>>95906585>which suggests self segregation and not integration into imperial societyIt suggests they are around. The extent to which they are integrated is secondary.
>>95906238>The REAL Kislev shitstorm will come if they resemble TW3 Kislev instead of their old selves.I think the average kislev army would look a lot like old kislev. The ice weapons and bears in total war kislev are all on elite units that a tabletop army wouldn't have more than a few units of. As long as the ice dragon and the forest spirit creatures never make it to the tabletop I think they'll overall be fine
>>95906540Whiteness already existed, most whites were just unaware of it (like about the sun and earth).
>>95906607>The extent to which they are integrated is secondary.Not only it's not secondary, it's the entire point of the discussion, because nobody is talking about an arab in arab clothes appearing as a random merchant in the streets, but imperial state troopers and other soldiers that the artists have decided to make black for some misguided attempt at inclusivity.
>>95906641It never existed. It was pushed merely to cause harm.
>>95906645>Live in Arab town.>Decide to sign up to the Imperial Army rather than become an merchant like your dad.There.
>>95906612I hope you're around to take the piss out of all the new Cathay players once they start posting lizardnon
>>95906604No idea who you are talking about. Im actually the guy that teaches new people old world in my club and most people approach me first when they want to play a game. I also try to match my list with my opponents to not make games one-sided.
>>95906651Created by who ? To harm who ?
>>95906238>The REAL Kislev shitstorm will come if they resemble TW3 Kislev instead of their old selves.>bear cavalry instead of winged lancers>giant ice bear instead of ungol horse archers>ice guard instead of kossars >bear chariot with cannon without even an alternative build of the kit to make it a normal war wagon pulled by horses
>>95906691Evil people.
Anybody they wish to harm.
>>95906664>There.not so easy, the state doesn't have to hire you and it's going to be reasonably discriminatory towards outsiders when it comes to the defence of its own territories, especially with a history of arab wars, which spawned some of the most well known knightly orders of the empire.
>>95906683>warhammer is competitve!>I'm the guy who teaches people also my meta is full of sweats?!?>Cathay needs to be OP!>but I swear I'm not WAAC!Anon it's time to take a good look in the mirror and figure out how to be less gay on the tabletop.
>Ostlanders and Ostermarkers are canonically ethnically distinct, having mixed with the Ungols after they fled Kislev in the wake of the Gospodars, so that many, particularly Ostermarkers have epicanthic folds.
>In WFRP 3e there's even rules for it and it's called 'eyes of the east'
>Which actually seems kind of racist, but I guess since nobody played 3e, nobody got upset
>there's barely any depictions of it. There's one pic of a mongol-looking guy in the Dogs of War book with an obviously imperial pistol.
>there's a really shitty ostlander halberdier in the WFRP 4e book
>but never mind the actual in-universe ethnic differences, we need black people everywhere
I'd like to see some more interesting depictions of Strigany and Borderers too. But nobody actually cares.
>>95905417Too many blacks on the art to suggest it's a faithful product. Pass.
>>95906765I never said warhammer is competitive.
I also never play on tournaments.
No idea what you are hallucinating.
You should take your meds.
>>95906293>With racism between provinces being about as commonI'm racist to "people" from the wrong side of a 200m high horst. Doesn't mean we don't belong to the same ethnicity.
ioi
md5: e67b36513c7a16e39947f6a1a59212d0
๐
>>95906691Yakub.
The Shabazzenes who rejected him as a child.
So why aren't half the cathay models black?
china is a very diverse place you know
>>95906871What's stopping you from painting them black?
>>95906878but that would just look silly
>>95906745It's a civil war. People don't have room to be picky.
>>95906843It probably literally does if you live in Europe.
>>95906878It's more of a question of why there are no black skinned models in the official paint schemes by GW
>>95906765Actually I joined your chat here
>>95906302 despite you replying to another.
>>95906903They realize the recent attempts at this were received poorly. See AoS City of Sigmar and Slaves To Darkness characters. Some Sisters models too in 40k
Could also be their Chinese marketer is telling them to also avoid this.
>>95906903Are there for other factions in TOW?
>>95906871they thought about that
>Dan: Painting a predominantly East Asian skin tone across Grand Cathay was a new challenge for us. Itโs easy to assume there is one correct recipe or paint scheme to go with, but thatโs not faithful to the wide variety of skin tones in reality. At the same time, itโs a range so we have to make it all feel relatively consistent and uniform โ with exceptions for the Ogres, who are likely mercenaries and thus can be from outside the kingdom of Grand Cathay. >We primarily focused on a small selection of paints to give ourselves a strong foundation for the skin tones โ around five or so tones โ and the way we established variety was by starting at different points on that scale for lighter or darker skin. Shading up and glazing down appropriately, but working largely within a tight run of paints. There is some organic variation outside of that as well.
>>95906933They have done some Empire miniatures with Darker Skin and for the Full Tilt Battle Report one of the model had darker skin
>>95906938more importantly, I just noticed this
>the cannon itself can have the Dragon head left off if you want, so it can look a little bit more โhistoricalโ.which is probably going to help for conversions for chaos dwarfs and bretonnian bombards
>>95906951My friend and I disagree, but I think the cannon looks better without the dragon and the rockets should have the dragon head and he believes the opposite.
>>95906955>>95906951Are there photos of the cannon without the dragon head?
>>95906975Bottom right dude looks cool.
>>95905175Those cloaks need some Autumn Oak Leaf camo
>>95906985No, you have to use your imagination.
>>95906990That's the chad smoker rocket loader. I am glad stuff like Tobacco pipes are still modeled and not considered taboo.
>>95906975Top left and right look like they're having a ball
>>95906938>itโs a range so we have to make it all feel relatively consistent and uniformWait why do they have to do this for Cathay but not for the Old World
>>95907071>Wait why do they have to do this for Cathay but not for the Old WorldIgnoring the RPG, look at GW's webstore at the entire Bret and Empire ranges. It's all Euro skin tones too. They aren't doing an age of sigmar half the people are black Californian demographics thing in Old World.
>>95906286>>Oh noes the new army will stomp my army
This also is your brain on WAAC.
>>95905942You know tomb kings and dwarves also get detachment right? It was never an empire unique thing
>>95905971>>95905994Aren't knights errant explicitly not nobles yet? And that's what makes them a knight errant?
>>95906064Do they get shieldwall backed into them? If not I feel like they're only slightly better than dwarf warrior thanks to having ws5 instead of ws4
>>95906704>bear cavalry instead of winged lancers>giant ice bear instead of ungol horse archers>ice guard instead of kossarsBut winged cav, horse archers, and kossars are in TWW3?
>>95906534>a social construct is the same as a physical reality
>>95906691Those in power to convince those without power that other people without power are actually the reason things are going to shit.
>>95906577>how can it be plausible if they don't live in the empire in any significant number?Because a group of people don't have to live in area in significant numbers for you to encounter them in a high population area? Even if the population white/non-white is 99.9%/0.1%, in Marianburg or riekland that means there's still like a hundred or so.
>>95907071Anon empire models having a variety of skin tones is exactly what people are complaining about