Welcome to the Old School Renaissance General, the thread still dedicated to the first decade of TSR-era D&D, derived systems, and compatible content.

Broadly, OSR games encourage a tonal and mechanical fidelity to Dungeons & Dragons as played in the game's first decade—less emphasis on linear adventures and overarching meta-plots and a greater emphasis on player agency.

If you are new to the OSR, welcome! Ask us whatever you're curious about: we'll be happy to help you get started.

>Troves, Resources, Blogs, etc:
http://pastebin.com/9fzM6128

>Need a starter dungeon? Here's a curated collection:
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/86342023/#q86358321

>Previous thread:
>>95892018

>TQ:
Custom spells! What are the most interesting spells your PLAYERS have researched? How long did it take them to research them? What were the costs incurred? How did you determine what level to assign to them?

>What's an OSR?
>Don't know how to get started?
>The friendly n00b guide can be found here: https://pastebin.com/EVvt6P0B until further notice.

Want to contribute to the thread but don't know where to start? Use this table.
>1. Make a spell
>2. Make a monster
>3. Make a dungeon special
>4. Make a wilderness location
>5. Make an urban set piece
>6. Make a magic item
>7. Make a class, race, or race-as-class
>8. Make a 4-10 room lair.
>9. Make a trap
>10. Roll 2D10 and combine

>>95911344
>>95911364

I am heading to bed for the night, I would appreciate any more feed back you all might have!

Take it easy, /osrg/
don't let the boogeyman get ya

Can you like run modern DnD campaigns in OSR games?

Like a Strixhaven in OSRIC or something

>>95911503
What do you mean by "campaign"? A setting? A series of adventure modules to be played in a sequence? What the fuck's a Strixhaven?

>>95911503
you could take the words and the characters and the maps, sure. it's D&D.

but you'd have to axe...most of the textual content. the writers are paid by the word, which is why those books are full of stories that aren't yours. Steve Winters posted on i think ENWorld about how much of a nightmare the first 5E module (Hoard of the Dragon Queen) was. unfinished rules, deadlines, cent-per-word? he just typed away.

>>95911503
I don't know Stryxhaven but yes? Please don't tell /osrg/ but I've run several storyslop milestone-leveling campaigns using Labyrinth Lord AEC, and they were fun. Use 4d6 drop lowest for character creation and have your players start at level 3 with full HD, so they don't get one-shotted by a random ghoul, and you're good.

>>95911592
I'm telling.

>>95911503
Can, yes.
Should you?
Debatable. Personally I think D&D is simply tailored to the "Classic" Gygaxian world-first style (in terms of Six Cultures of Play terms although I object to the Nordic designation on the grounds that it was only fingol autists involved) and a lot of other styles go against the grain and design of it to lesser or greater degrees of friction.

>>95911592
I don't think anybody here denies that you can use the rules for different styles of play, or even that they're better for those styles than many other rulesets (e.g. GURPS and Rolemaster are crunchoid cancer and so regardless of your campaign style you're probably better off just adapting D&D; arguably 5E is also just worse at doing the same things as BECMI going by how many 5E DMs seem relieved to discover OSR games), it's just that those weren't the intended play style and aren't on-topic *for this general*.

After all, if you couldn't use the ruleset for many different (mostly shit) playstyles, D&D would never have diverged from the old-school style in the first place.

>>95912073
The "old school renaissance" was pioneered with Castles&Crusades, a slimmed down version of the d20 system. It 'diverged' from d20 for essentially the same reason Basic 'diverged' from OD&D: People wanted a simpler version of the game. The whole "we must return to tradition" aspect of C&C was mostly just a marketing effort, tapping into the nostalgia/stubborness of older players while feigning a more established foundation to newer ones. Cue footage of farmers ploughing fields, smiling sun-weathered faces, Marlboro Man voiceover reminding you 'bout the "simpler times", that sorta shtick.

OSRs popularity came and come largely from the promise of a "simpler" game. All the arguing over what is the true "old-school style" is entirely just posturing, because even back in the 70s and 80s there wasn't a single style. The efforts to codeify/define what the old-school style is have really just shown how diverse opinions are, and how fragmented the community is, something even recognized all the way back in 2004 when the OSR started.

>>95912170
>was pioneered with Castles&Crusades
The name literally comes from OSRIC which was made in reaction to K&K people's disappointment with Troll Lord's game not living up to their pre-release hype at all.

>>95912170

>>95912177
OSRIC came out in 2006. "Old School Renaissance" started usage in 2004.

You are objectively wrong.

>>95912190
It's a bit of the other way around in that the term came from the people who made OSRIC two years later and the K&K crowd didn't mean anything like C&C by it but people playing the original TSR games.
That said they tend to prefer CAG nowadays after the OSR was co-opted.

>>95911722
Look what you've done.

>>95912073
Not everybody gets the OSR way (dungeon-crawling/hexcrawl sandbox) right away, and that's not a problem. DMs going OSR and having fun running their regular games using OSE or AD&D rather than 5e is a good thing, they can learn at their own time that the rules really shine when you're running the way it was intended. Other than that, if anyone wants to blabber about their Dragonlance-inspired Planescape OSRIC campaign or whatever... I'd say they are more than welcome.

>>95912207
The K&K crowd are not the founders of OSR. In fact, they would be the one's trying to co-opt it, since C&C was the game that sparked the "rennaissance" alongside the Dragonsfoot (and other) forums, with K&K being an offshoot of DF.

C&C was a big part of early DF, and with K&K being a relatively tiny splinter from DF and OSRIC coming two years later, it's frankly ridiculous to claim OSRIC is the OSR's namesake or that K&K was anything more than a small faction within the larger OSR community.

>>95912214
>Not everybody gets the OSR way (dungeon-crawling/hexcrawl sandbox) right away, and that's not a problem.
AYRT and I agree.

>if anyone wants to blabber about their Dragonlance-inspired Planescape OSRIC campaign or whatever... I'd say they are more than welcome.
Disagree with this however, that stuff's great an all but doesn't belong ITT. People can still create an unlimited number of threads on the board, so...

>>95912190
>>95912262
>he is once again attempting it
You're never going to succeed in using sophisms to change this general to yur preference. Just give up.

>>95912262
>The K&K crowd are not the founders of OSR
lmao

>>95912351
This is the OSR general. If you have a personal definition of what OSR means, you should find yourself a subreddit rather than trying to impose your definition on the rest of us.

>>95912262
>look up the source for 2004 off wikipedia where you undoubtedly picked it up from
>it's literally Trent, the guy who wrote the "no just because you didn't play it right back in the 70s doesn't mean that's what we're aiming at with the OSR" back in 2009, being cited
lmao

>>95912380
The "source" for this info is the Dragonsfoot forums. None of what I said is a mystery or lost history, you can still see all the original posts from the early OSR era.

Are you done sputtering?

Can someone explain to an idiot (me) what the main difference between the Classic and OSR playstyle is?

>>95912369
>t. Lone guy who has a personal definition of OSR he wants to force on literally everyone else in the thread

>>95912262
>The K&K crowd are not the founders of OSR.
Web archives say otherwise.

>since C&C was the game that sparked the "rennaissance"
False, the first recorded use of "OSR" predates the publication of C&C by several months.

>K&K was a small faction within the larger OSR community
Only after the OSR term became popular and started to be used by pretty much everyone because it helped sell books.

>>95912170
>The "old school renaissance" was pioneered with Castles&Crusades
False, forums show that the term was in use several months before C&C came out.

>OSRs popularity came and come largely from the promise of a "simpler" game.
Completely made up. The first recorded use of the term OSR referred explicitly to OD&D, AD&D 1e, and B/X, not to some nebulous "simpler game".

>>95912408
Probably not since it's hard to know what you mean by Classic, or what whoever you got the term from meant. Presumably you're not sure either and that's why you're asking, so...

>>95912400
>The "source" for this info is the Dragonsfoot forums.
Yeah, Foster posting there.
Whose a K&K regular and the source for the effortpost that make co-opters seethe to this day.

>>95912438
It's maybe a silly question and referring to this blog post which I as a non-native brainlet struggled to digest:
https://retiredadventurer.blogspot.com/2021/04/six-cultures-of-play.html?m=0
So the only real difference I understood was the balance of challenges which OSR doesn't care too much about whereas Classic Gygax did.

>>95912408
Well first off, The Retired Adventurer made up the notion of a "Classic" play-style for his Six Cultures blog post. And what it really boils down to is that in the actual early days of the hobby, the vaunted first ten years from '74 to '83 or whatever, there weren't really any such things as deliberate play-styles yet. That's a modern, post-Forge, post-OSR-blogs thing. In the early days of the hobby, the few RPGs floating around were the only games in town, and everyone was flailing. So while (for example) the Lake Geneva and Twin Cities circles had their intended way of playing (wargame-adjacent, challenge-based), they didn't have a coherent philosophy like "don't railroad" or "no storylines" or "player agency good." The Classic play-style, then, seems to be nothing more than a hodgepodge of old rules, old stories about how "everyone" "really" played "back then", Gygaxian gotcha dickery, maybe a main plotline in imitation of LotR, and modules that were meant for tournaments but wound up getting used in home campaigns. (In other words: no wonder the Hickman revolution happened). If OSR is a thoughtful and deliberate attempt to recreate 70s D&D as intended, Classic is how ten-year-olds tried to make sense of Holmes Basic in mom's basement in the early 80s.

>>95912408
>what the main difference between the Classic and OSR playstyle is?
Look at some of the people who play that way if you want exhaustive explanations but TLDR is that Classic means in the sense of AD&D and OD&D as played and described by Gygax et al with long-term sandbox campaign play.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iTVFwLir20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u8Du9TMNl8
https://retiredadventurer.blogspot.com/2021/04/six-cultures-of-play.html

>>95912492
It's just the playstyle actually outlined in AD&D.
To no one's surprise actually rolling that way makes pseuds and entryists shit themselves in rage.

>>95912408
It's a term used by people who play a certain way that got tired of getting asshats going into their discussions to shill unrelated dogshit and stirring up nonsensical discussions under the guise of muh OSR.
Not all that unrelated to this general if we're being honest except they have moderation powers.

per OSRsimulacrum:

>The major hangouts for the old-school community in the third edition era were all forum-based. The biggest by far was Dragonsfoot ("The home of TSR-era D&D"), its public website going live in May 2000, only three months prior to the release of 3rd edition. A forum civil war over which editions should be discussed and how led to an exodus to the new Knights & Knaves Alehouse (K&K) forum in mid-2005; the new forum cut 2nd edition as well as B/X and BECMI from its list of approved editions, its members frequently deriding the latter two as "kiddie D&D" ("This board unashamedly and proudly supports Old School GYGAXIAN games. Specifically: Original Dungeons & Dragons – the little books, First Edition Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, and Judges Guild products for OD&D & AD&D. This board is for the discussion of OLD SCHOOL style games and gaming. We make no excuses and no apologies for other game systems not being supported here.")

https://osrsimulacrum.blogspot.com/2021/03/a-historical-look-at-osr-part-iv.html

>>95912437
>False, the first recorded use of "OSR" predates the publication of C&C by several months.
C&C debuted in August. It stands to reason it was in development earlier than that.

More importantly, "OSR" in 2004 wasn't even unified in what the letters OSR stood for, let alone what games/style it referred to. Both "old school renaissance" and "old school revival" were both in competing usage at that time, and much of the discussion was centered around petitioning WotC to re-release the older D&D books and mounting frustration that they never would. The era before widespread PDF sharing and piracy was a strange time.

C&C came in as an OGL-compatible 3rd-party game in part to avoid WotC potentially trying to bring a pure older edition clone to court, something they did many times in the past in an effort to kill competition via legal fees. By using the d20 Open Game License, C&C effectively opened up the doors for the incredibly small and budding OSR community to grow, from a few hundred at most to several thousand.

>>95912408
>the main difference between the Classic and OSR playstyle is?
OSR = roughly first decade D&D and faithful retroclones, played a certain way (player agency, open worlds, no railroading, long-term campaigns, largely in line with how Gygax and Arneson played, particularly in the 1970s). So OD&D, Holmes Basic AD&D "1e", B/X. BECMI, RC, WSG, DSG, and UA are grey areas.

Notable OSR subcultures:


/osrg/: Where you are now. The n00b guide >>95911475 represents one possible attempt at a summary of the prevailing views here, which is of course not easy since this is 4chan after all.

Classic Adventure Gaming (CAG) = roughly the same thing as OSR, but with greater emphasis on AD&D "1e" as interpreted by OSRIC and sucking off EOTB. Any discussion not strictly related to actual gameplay is poorly tolerated.

Fantasy Adventure Gaming (FAG) = roughly the same thing as OSR, but with greater emphasis on B/X, 4chan culture, and early teen humour, and sucking off RPGpundit.

BrOSR = A subset of OSR with a very specific subculture (kayfabe weightlifting right-wing nerds), a fixation for "Brawnsteen" play, sucking off Jeffro, and AD&D "1e" by the book... as they understand it: they have some quirky interpretations of the AD&D rules, e.g. their fixation on absolutely strict 1:1 time between sessions: when no play is happening, the IRL calendar day and in-game calendar day are in lockstep. This is stricter than even the DMG recommends, but it does lead to interesting gameplay as well as early DM burnout. They're a bunch of morons, but they are still definitely OSR morons, so we can't disown them.

‐-----------------

Not OSR:

"Classic" with no qualifications: nobody uses that, really. If you picked it up from the "Six Cultures of Play" blog post, it is misleading and overrated, classic plebbit-tier philosophising of no consequence or interest to actual play.

Plebbit OSR: "An OSR is a game that identifies as OSR."

>>95912616
>Culo&Caca debuted in August
False, the first printing of the Culo&Caca Players Handbook is from December 2024.

>>95912609
Man, the K&K fags really need to stick to their dying forum. For a group that barely ever even had 1,000 members they really just can't stop throwing a shitfest everywhere they go.

>>95912609
OSRsimulacrum timeline goes

>Necromancer games founded in 2000
>Kenzer & Co releases Hackmaster in 2001
>Troll Lord founded in 2000, Gygax writes for them in 2001
>Troll Lord releases C&C in 2004
>Dragonsfoot/K&K kerfuffle in 2005

>BFRPG is the first OSR game released in jan 2006
>OSRIC comes along in june 2006
>LL comes out 2007

Theres your OSR history

>>95912640
It debutted at the 2004 Gen Con.

>>95912652
They planned to do it, but they were unable to, so they only released it in December.

>>95912629
Classic in reference here obviously just means CAG since that's what everyone linked to in response and it's what the retired adventurer post refers to by it.
FAG also isn't a different thing at all, it's just the line CAG referred to until they decided they'd use a more clean term so it can be found in a search engine. It's a line from the 1E DMG where Gygax describes what the game is about.

>>95912408
Took me a while to get it myself, so if you're an idiot, so am I. Hopefully it'll help you understand (and even agree with!) some of the autism in this thread.

The most important thing you have to understand is that OSR games have a game loop. This game loop is sacred and must be respected at all times: players go into the dungeon, inside the dungeon they get gold and magic items, gold is converted to XP, players get stronger, players go back into the dungeon.

Much of the distaste you read around here about storyslop or xp-for-milestones comes from the understanding that those things substract from this virtuous circle, or even disrupt it completely. OSR campaigns have story, but it emerges organically from players interacting with the mechanics and making the game their own, no need to push any overarching story about saving the kingdom. Good OSR settings and modules give you a sandbox full of dungeons and excuses for players to explore them, that's all you really need.

I don't know if this has helped or not, but hopefully next time some anon here goes on an autistic rant about treasure tables you now can better understand where he's coming from.

>>95912679
>Classic in reference here obviously just means CAG
Okay then.

>FAG also isn't a different thing at all, it's just the line CAG referred to until they decided they'd use a more clean term
But then it was reappropriated by a group of 4channers, and that is what I was referring to. My bad, I should have said it explicitly.

>It's a line from the 1E DMG where Gygax describes what the game is about.
It's also what it says on the cover of the B/X books, which is what the second-generation FAGs refer to. Picrel

>>95912679
>FAG also isn't a different thing at all,
You are so completely wrong it's laughable. Please let people who actually have authority on the subject speak

>>95912702
Literally never seen anyone use it for B/X.
Sounds like some bs to try and co-opt it again considering the people behind the term aren't fans of it.

>>95911503
Only if you give yourself brain damage first, which based on this post I'm assuming you have

>>95912369
Actually this is /osrg/, not r/OSR. Go there instead.

>>95912710
>muh revisionism
Go neck yourself. I remember when we first started posting about it and thinking the acronym was funny and the very first podcast they put out is about "fantasy adventure gaming".
Also there's one anon absolutely assblasted over their gaming style solely because some mod from their discord kicked him out over theorysperging.

>>95912731
Fuck off to your dead K&K forum, and stop trying to impose your failed definition here.

>>95912629
>Fantasy Adventure Gaming (FAG) = roughly the same thing as OSR, but with greater emphasis on B/X, 4chan culture, and early teen humour, and sucking off RPGpundit.
Get a fucking clue, bozo

>>95912711
>Literally never seen anyone use it for B/X.
You're new to /osrg/ then, or have been away for some time. They're quite active here and have been embroiled in one notable flamewar over a shortly lived Discord and some misunderstandings that raged for three consecutive threads until a truce of sorts was reached. It's all good now, as far as I'm concerned at least (I'm a veteran of that sad and retarded war).

>>95912645
>BFRPG is the first OSR game
not osr, and absolutely dogshit

>>95912763
See >>95912702

>>95912747
>I'm an idiot, and I'm gonna dumb everyone else down to my level!
Stop posting about yourself

>>95911499
So I'm wondering --

How does an orc chieftain become a fire mage?
Did he find a ring or wand in a niche of a lost cave somewhere and ascend to power by luck/accident?

Did this particular orc happen upon a dead magic-user's spellbook and begin his studies?

Did he make a deal with a demon at the altar found in the adventure site? Is Orc Jesus actually Orc Mal'ak'Gahr the Flamelord?

>>95912749
Welcome to /osrg/!
On 4chan, if you don't like a thread, you can make a new one, like /todd/

>>95912772
youre arguing with a blogpost anon, one that has been pointed to more than once in this very thread, as an accurate timeline and history of the movement.

have a nice day, hope you play a game soon

>>95912479
Oh, okay! No, that's not a silly question, but that blog post is written by some kind of bizarre intellectualizer, he's really trying hard to draw distinctions that don't really exist. Your confusion basically comes from him fixating on small differences (which it's worth noting that he probably doesn't have any firsthand experience of either, I don't think he came into the hobby during the '70s era) in order to draw a line between his posited "Classic" and "OSR" styles, that's why the post is confusing. You'll notice all the other styles, even "neo-trad", are clearly distinct and informed by very different approaches to play whereas OSR is supposed to be different from Classic by being "romanticizing"(??) and caring less about level-appropriate challenges (which is horseshit, if you examine Arduin and any large OSR module, say Khosura).

So, it's not that you're a brainlet, the post is just kinda crappy and full of motivated reasoning.

>>95912781
What the fuck's a fire mage.

>>95912786
>one that has been pointed to more than once in this very thread, as an accurate timeline and history of the movement.
And that has been derided about ten times as often.

>>95912785
If you want to make a /kk/ general, off you go. If you want to stay in the OSR general, you're going to have to finally put away your 2-decade long bitchfest and recognize that entire world disagrees with the thousand people from that dead forum about what an OSR is.

>>95912793
a colloquial name for a magic-user that has a cadre of fire-based spells , one could surmise.

>>95912787
The blogpost's quality aside CAG being different from the OSR is a thing because they explicitly reject the OSR label on the grounds that they're arguing for a distinct playstyle as separate from what most of the OSR plays.
Seems to work well for them by most accounts.

>>95912781
Idk, YOU tell US

>>95912800
No

>>95912800
I'm not quoted and I can still tell that you're that stupid 2E fucktard that whines about /osrg/ in unrelated /tg/ threads all the time. Most recently that not everyone here loves BFRPG.

>>95912786
Repeating something does not make it true. Appeal to Authority does not make it true.
I'm in four osr games a week I'm sure my sessions are fine.

>>95912800
No, I'm going to continue posting and pointing out where you are wrong, and you are going to do the exact same thing except to me, and we will be here until the end of time, or you go somewhere else and accept that this thread has a much more narrow and specific scope than what you want
>>95912818
Kind of wild how you mentioned you weren't even replied to and then you still decide to shit up the thread with your own personal agenda

>>95912820
I'm sure your games are fine too, I'm glad you will be playing soon. Have a fun adventure!

>>95912830
>your own personal agenda
You mean noticing that you're that fucker?
Reminder that 2E will never be OSR.

>>95912749

>>95912771
>I'm a veteran of that sad and retarded war
kekked audibly

>>95912811
I think a deal with a demon is way cooler than a lucky orc finding a magic item. But the latter seems way more plausible for the common orc.

The demon-orc-army would be a better competing faction with the young dragon in the caverns and his kobold worshippers

hmmmm

>>95912830
Except the entire world says you and your dead forum are wrong, and no amount of "I OWN THIS GENERAL" delusions from you will change the fact that in a 4chan general about a topic, people will come in here to discuss that topic. That means OSRs, even if you disagree with the entire world's definition of what an OSR is.

>>95912810
CAG/FAG isn't the same thing as what that blogposter calls Classic, though. The former are simply OSR purists who decided the acronym was lost to faggots playing Cairn and Knave and so on (i.e. they're like this thread except they abandoned the acronym), whereas the blogger, again, is just talking about a false distinction he invented himself.

>>95912800
>I swear if I just pretend even harder that everyone agrees with me for one more post they'll all buy it!
Give up, dingus. It's time to give up.

>>95912876
Your post couldn't possibly be more ironic.

>>95912781
If in doubt; demon or dragon blood.

>>95912870
>the entire world says
>meanwhile, nobody else in the entire thread agrees

>>95912885
Hey, you never answered that question from a few threads back: why do you even *want* to be here? Why do you want to post in a general where nobody agrees with you and nobody plays the way you like? What's the ultimate point of all this autistic assrage? I mean, if you did get your way and managed to slide the topic (which you never will, don't get me wrong). What would you post about?

>>95912894
NTA, but you really need to just discuss games you like and leave people to discuss games they like. It's 4chan. We're never all going to agree about anything.

>>95912911
>leave people to discuss games they like
Sure, of course! Not in this thread, though. Keep off-topic games in their own threads, 5e in the 5e general and 2e in the 2e general and so on.

>>95912871
>CAG/FAG isn't the same thing as what that blogposter calls Classic, though.
I'd say it's correct but incomplete.
He's singling out the right people and saying some of what they say, even some of their distinctions from the OSR, but missing the emphasis on exploring a living world through player agency which they put very high. Only real quibble I have is that domain play isn't that integral and many just prefer high level planar-style adventures.
As for the other definitions he sets up I dunno and don't really care, i'm just judging what he wrote in the classic entry.

>>95911468 (OP)
How into naval stuff are you? I was looking at the different ships you could get to go to the isle of dread, as well as the other naval mystara stuff, and while longships seem like a good one by pure game stats, I actually think more broadly, a caraval would be the best general purpose all round adventuring ship to commission/own.

relitively low crew size of 6-12 + party (so you can feasably sail it even if all npcs are somehow slaughtered), tonnage of 50 to 160 tones, has internal coverage unlike longships, and was made for some degree of deep sea sailing unlike longships (ships that made it to Americas not by Greenland hoping). You could also probably mount 2-3 cannons/balistas either side.

>>95912973
This is an example on the larger side of caravals. Id go more for a 2 cannon per side one.

>>95912894
The entire world.
This is the OSR general. You might be mad about what the entire world is willing to call an OSR, but that doesn't give you any power to actually decide what one is.

It's been two decades since your "civil war." You were kicked off of the Dragonsfoot forums for being exactly as retarded and obnoxious as you are now. If you imagined 4chan will be your new forum because K&K died, you made a pretty gross miscalculation in assuming people here would accept your insane definition of what an OSR is instead of the one used by the everywhere else.

Just go back to K&K and be bitter if you don't want to accept how wrong you are.

>>95913005
Niggy, you're the lone bitter dissenter here. If "the entire world" agrees with you, then go talk to them there!

>>95913005
>2Efag now trying to drive people off from the angle that everything is OSR and that people who don't agree should leave
Unironically, and I say this as someone who doesn't run sandboxes, fucking kill yourself.

>>95913022
I'm far from the only one who's told you that you're wrong, so quit being a delusional fuckhead.

>>95913028
If you disagree with someone about what an OSR is, discuss the games you think are OSRs and leave them to discuss the games they think are OSRs.

Are you actually stupid?

>>95913033
>I'm far from the only one who's told you that you're wrong
Incorrect! You very obviously are the only one.

>>95913045
>and leave them to discuss the games they think are OSRs.
Outside of this general.
Again fucking kill yourself you retarded asocial fuckwit. No one's buying anything you're selling after months of you trying to kill the general because a few people told you that your houserules weere absolute garbage.
And no, if your game doesn't use gold for xp by default it doesn't belong here. Mcfucking killyourself.

>>95913049
>>95913054
You keep trying this whole "everyone i disagree with is one person, and everyone else agrees with me!" bullshit.

I don't think 4chan is the website for you. You think you're very smart and know how to abuse the anonymous nature of this website, but anyone even mildy used to this place can see right through your efforts.

>>95913066
Going "uhm acshually everyone agrees with me you're delusional and alone" is about as convincing as your OSR spiel.
The only one falling it is single digit IQ retards like yourself.

>>95913054
Why would someone who wants to talk about OSRs in the OSR general have to accept YOUR definition, especially when almost the entirety of the world doesn't share your definition?
Because you will shit and piss all over yourself if you don't have your way?

>>95913086
OP dictates thread topic.
Go make a /2eg/ and watch the discussion flow freely

>>95913090
Reminder that your douchebag plebbitor kind has literally never been accepted on here and you can go back years in the archive to prove it.

>>95913096
>derived systems, and compatible content.
>Broadly
Now, shut up.

>>95913090
Because this isn't an """OSR""" thread, it's /osrg/.
Do you think shadowdark and morkborg are on topic? Please answer the question.

>>95913090
>Because you will shit and piss all over yourself
He says as he sperged out ad nauseam over people discussing actual OSR stuff enough that he made a breakaway general that no one else posted in.

>>95913103
>tonal and mechanical fidelity to Dungeons & Dragons as played in the game's first decade
So very much not 2E or any nusr shit you're trying to sell the suckers on plebbit this week.

>>95913033
>>95913045
Answer the question, speg: >>95912910

>>95913099
Your pissing and moaning has been routinely deleted here. You've proven to be autistically peristent and willing to keep going even after ordinary people just throw in the towel, but more people arrive to disagree with you and set you off all over again.
You have a severe problem, and you are making yourself not just this general's problem, but this entire board's problem.
Even your whole "If you don't like MY general, make your own!" nonsense raises the question of whether we really need two relatively slow moving generals. When you're not throwing one of your tantrums, the /osrg/ is relatiely nice and relaxed.

>>95913138
It's actually funny how shameless and delusional you are.
It's like you actually believe the baseless shit spewing out of your mouth.

>>95913144
You trying for some sort of ironic post award?

>>95913138
>I got a janny to help me
>you're the autist nevermind me going on for years and creating /todd/ simply because anons said his houserules were garbage and were old hat stuff that doesn't work in actual play a thing you still bitch about in various threads
>more people (where?) disagree with you every day!

>>95913138
Ironically, it's only when you fuck off that /osrg/ is nice and relaxed, 2efag. Now answer the question: >>95912910

I have yet to see a single thing out of the "everything is OSR" crowd worth running.
Meanwhile the CAG fags have prince's NAP, melan's stuff, hawkins gunderholfen, the osric adventures, arden vul etc.
Even doctrinaire 2E basically only has big ideas bad execution campaign settings and Carl Sargent stuff.

>2. Make a monster

So I've had this idea for a while in doodle form, maybe you guys can help me flesh it out!

this creature has three stages
>stage 1
cannibal dwarf like thing that wants to eat hearts, very tough and resilient but not highly damaging

>stage 2
eats enough hearts, it grows a second head
loses some hit dice, gains magical ability

>stage 3
after consuming it's body weight in hearts, stage 2 enters gestational stasis. one week later, stage 3 emerges huge fat three headed
very weak, but can now spawn one stage 1 creature per X time, as well as use it's magical ability


this seems like a fun threat that has potential to be a major crisis, and i've got an idea about how to stat it

my main question would be where does the initial stage 1 creature spawn from? the ol chicken or the egg

>>95913162
I'm not your /todd/ boogeyman. And, at the most bare and extreme minimum, a janitor is a provable 2nd person.

All you know how to do is bitch and shit and cry and claim everyone who disagrees with you is only one person, and all because you don't want people discussing a game you dislike in a thread it's on-topic in. You will try every kind of mental gymnastic imaginable to try and make this board have to listen to you, but the sad truth for you is that no one has to and no one is going to.

>8 hours without a mention of ACKS is enough for the retard to go full feral and start attacking the entire thread
Once again, I must mention how satisfying it is to see entirely independent, peer reviewed proof that he's as odious as an otyugh and as cock-hungry as an Incubus in high heels.

Now, to actually try and pull things back into thread relevant questions:
What's the most exotic mount/pet any of your party have ever managed to hook up with?

Let's see if some good, old fashioned story time can drown him out for a few posts.

/osrg/, I'm biting the bullet and moving from descending AC to ascending AC. I'm tired of discussing with my players about it and they not understanding thac0. Pray for me. I tried.

>>95913240
farewell, friend

>loses argument, doubles down on addressing his boogeyman instead of anyone he was talking to, making further discussion pointless
That's one way to end the drama, I guess.

>>95913218
NAYRT, but you *are* only one person, though. You're extremely recognizable.

>>95913436
As a 3rd party, you both sound like one person and the two of you need to shut the fuck up.

just play games you miserable retards

>>95912841
Bro I agree with you
>>95912870
>I own the general!
No, OP does. Feel free to make a new thread tho!

>>95913219
Nah ACKS is great and your delusional thread-spamming is not

>>95913616
Like shadowdark and morkborg? They're OSR right?

>>95913735
No they aren’t, but you can certainly play them and it would serve you better than being a miserable retard on 4chan

>>95913723
Hey, don't do me dirty like that, I'm not the spammer.
I've not even been here the past few days.

Captia like "Trigger Word Non-Weapon Proficiency"

>>95913801
But why are they not on topic? Are you the one who decides what is and isn't? Or do we have a Line in the Sand in the op that we all observe?

>>95913889
Meds

>>95913103
How long's a decade?

Old RPG books had silly art

>>95914168
That's right billy, now go back to your skibadee toilet Tick Tock videos

>>95914000
Here you are still, being retarded and miserable!
>Are you the one who decides what is and isn't?
No?
>Or do we have a Line in the Sand in the op that we all observe?

>Broadly, OSR games encourage a tonal and mechanical fidelity to Dungeons & Dragons as played in the game's first decade—less emphasis on linear adventures and overarching meta-plots and a greater emphasis on player agency.

What in the world are you up to anon???

>>95914168
hehehe

>>95913735
Both seem to be derived systems, and Shadowdark's slogan is even "Old School Gaming, New School Mechanics."

On Dragonsfoot, the discussion on Morkborg has most commentors saying that while it's technically OSR, it's also not very good as far as rules go, and there's little interest in it because it's more graphic design exercise than game.

Shadowdark has a lot more discussion, and while most of it is about how popular it became thanks to managing to appeal to the 5e crowd (despite not really having much of any 5e mechanics), some of it is genuine praise for its tables and high production values, some of it is complaints about it being just another OSR in a increasingly cramped market, and there's really no one disputing that it's an OSR game.

>>95914343
>Shadowdark has a lot more discussion, and while most of it is about how popular it became thanks to managing to appeal to the 5e crowd (despite not really having much of any 5e mechanics), some of it is genuine praise for its tables and high production values, some of it is complaints about it being just another OSR in a increasingly cramped market, and there's really no one disputing that it's an OSR game.
nta but to steal a line from someone else; it's an OSR game, it's just a pretty, shallow one.
Very pretty yes, but lacking in substance.

Which is a shame really, given its strong art style they really could've pushed the boat out without it being too much of a risk for them.
You know, create a shitload of new, interesting monsters with their own unique art, that kind of thing.

>>95914373
It seems like an earnest effort to "modernize" dungeon crawling, though I get what you mean by "shallow."

Torch tracking, GP as XP, and races as classes are the sort of superficial stuff that I've heard people here argue are what make an OSR game an OSR game, and it seems like SD just went through it like a checklist.

>>95913616
Yes.
>>95913735
No.

>>95914435
Yeah, it's solidly in that 'I don't hate you, I just don't think much of you' category.
There are games I'm disappointed at, Dolmenwood for example, the author of that cucking out on the darker fairytale aspects of his setting to make it more marketable was pure cowardice and he deserves all the shit he gets for it.
But Shadowdark is just kind of a nothing that had really savvy marketing.

>>95914373
>it's an OSR game
it's off-topic, right?

>>95914478
>savvy marketing
Game's pulled in over $3 million from Kickstarter. That's not just savvy, it's borderline criminal for a game that's about as exciting as plain yogurt.

>>95914297
So why are they not on-topic? Why can't you answer that?

>>95913207
gimmick barghest

>>95912629
>>95912679
>>95912702
It's FAG and not CAG. It says right there onb rthe cover. You guys are FAGs.
Some fag came up with CAG because they are not happy with 'FAG'

OSR is FAG; fantasy adventure gaming that is.

>>95914343
Shadowdark really is in the exact same bag as BFRPG: it clearly is an OSR game, it just isn't partiuclarly good and needs a bunch of work if you want it to play well.

Ironically though they're loved for opposite reasons: poorfags love BFRPG because the print copies are dirt cheap, and paypigs love Shadowdark for how lesbianly collectible it is.

>>95914616
hoohoo!

Any good examples out there for a class that's like a Scientist/Engineer that functions like a magic-user mechanically? I'm looking for something to suit my scifi osr campaign. I've looked at Hulks and Horrors already.

>>95914056
>>95913723
>>95913698
>>95913219
>>95913168
Keep deleting on-topic comments and leaving up troll and off-topic posts all you want, it doesn't change a thing: We can still see all the deleted comments, and we can still reply. You're literally inconsequential.

/osrg/ will keep surviving, "AD&D" 2e will keep being off-topic, Anons will keep discussing ACKS, and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it.

>>95914846
>Scientist/Engineer that functions like a magic-user mechanically?
Heresy.
Dark Heresy.
Or any of that Gee Dubya Slop.

>>95914861
>>95914846
>Scientist/Engineer that functions like a magic-user mechanically
That doesn't seem to make sense. How do you explain spell slots, memorising spells, spell interruption, and so on?

>You will never be right
>You will always be a failure
>You will never be a useful member of society
>Your parents will bury you under your real name
How does it feel Janny?
Is that why you act the bitch?

I wonder how long you'll spend, squatting this thread, waiting for people to talk shit about you.
Maybe if you're here too long one of the admins will notice you slacking on other threads and come to see what you're doing.
Maybe they'll even notice what a faggot you're being in treating this like your own personal playpen instead of doing your fucking job properly and being an impartial observer.
I wonder if they'll fire you.
Well, it's not like you get paid anyway is it?
Will you rope when you lose that tiny bit of power?

>B-bwan evasion ;_;
Lol.

You know what? Even making a post in your capacity as a mod would be smarter than this.
At least then people would know where you stand and why they're not allowed to talk shit about your fishfaggot fuckbuddy and his throwing a melty every 24 hours for the rest of eternity.
Or are you just going to keep gloryholing away, sucking cocks from the shadows?
Fuck it, at this point, move the entire threat to /trash/ and be done with it if you want it gone that badly.
At least there we wouldn't have to put up with your cowardly bullshit.

>>95914861
>>95914958
>>95915037
Amen, brothers.

>>95914931
Well Hulks and Horrors explain it like Programs cast from a multi-tool that functions like a spellbook. You need to prep your programs ahead of time, the multitool needs to recharge once expended, and tons of stuff can disrupt the programs. Think of the sonic screwdriver from Doctor Who.

Im planning on using it as the base for my own Scientist class, but I'm primarily looking for an extended list of appropriate spells/Programs that suit a more scientific rather than magical bent.

>>95915053
>>95915069
I think that's an excellent explanation!

Assuming he's gone off to get a mod:
Dear mod.
Before bringing the hammer down on me I ask you check the archives for the past dozen or so /osrg/ threads and see the bullshit we've been dealing with.
Look, I'm not here to cause trouble, I want to talk about osr games.
But your janny is killing these threads by letting one absurd troll throw a great big wobbly tantrum in the middle of them and then gunning down anyone who tries to complain or report him.
He ignores reports. I know, I've reported the fucker myself and seen his posts go untouched.
And when he doesn't ignore reports it's a 24 hour ban followed by a triumphant return to him chicken-hawk'ing away at peoples ankles knowing full well his buddy on the janitorial staff isn't going to let any rightfully tell him to fuck off and isn't going to ban him either.

I don't think it's unreasonable for us to ask your staff to do their job and to look after the quality of this site (I know, you're probably laughing at the idea as well but come on, it's our ocean of piss, and cynical as we all are about this site? I don't want people leaving floaters in it and ruining the Je ne sais quoi)
Shit, I'm not even asking you to take my word for it, I'm just asking you to take a look at the evidence and make your own judgement on if the piss is being taken or not and leave it in your hands on what to do if you decide that's the case.

>>95915292
Well said, Anon. I support the motion.

>>95915320
I'd go on the IRC and say it but I imagine they'd take me out in a second under 'Hurr, already banned, here to argue about it, 404, brain not found, immediate time out.'
If anyone does happen to have a hook up with a mod having, I don't know, ERPd as a drow dominatrix with them or some shit, pass the message up the line.

And don't pretend you haven't, I know what you dirty sods are like.

Assuming he's gone off to get a mod:

Dear mod,

Before bringing the hammer down on me I ask you check the archives for the past dozen or so /osrg/ threads and see the bullshit we've been dealing with.

Look, I'm not here to cause trouble, I want to talk about osr games. But your janny is killing these threads by letting one absurd troll throw a great big wobbly tantrum in the middle of them and then gunning down anyone who tries to complain or report him. He ignores reports. I know, I've reported the fucker myself and seen his posts go untouched. And when he doesn't ignore reports it's a 24-hour ban followed by a triumphant return to him chicken-hawk'ing away at peoples ankles knowing full well his buddy on the janitorial staff isn't going to let any rightfully tell him to fuck off and isn't going to ban him either.

I don't think it's unreasonable for us to ask your staff to do their job and to look after the quality of this site (I know, you're probably laughing at the idea as well but come on, it's our ocean of piss, and cynical as we all are about this site? I don't want people leaving floaters in it and ruining the Je ne sais quoi)

Shit, I'm not even asking you to take my word for it, I'm just asking you to take a look at the evidence and make your own judgement on if the piss is being taken or not and leave it in your hands on what to do if you decide that's the case.

Wasn't even me that posted it this time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q82twrdr0U

Dear Moderator,

Before taking any action against me, I kindly ask that you review the archives for the past dozen or so /osrg/ threads to understand the issues we’ve been dealing with.

I’m not here to cause trouble—I’m here to discuss OSR games. However, the actions of your janitor are significantly impacting these threads, and I’d like to highlight a few concerns:

1. Allowing a particularly disruptive troll to dominate the threads with tantrums, while silencing anyone who attempts to report or address the issue.

2. Ignoring reports—I've personally reported this individual and seen no action taken.

3. When reports are acknowledged, the typical response seems to be a short 24-hour ban, after which the troll returns, continuing their disruptive behavior, knowing full well their actions won’t be properly addressed due to their relationship with staff.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask your team to enforce some basic standards and ensure the quality of this site is upheld. I understand the nature of this place can be chaotic, but we all want to maintain a certain level of respect and focus in our discussions. The current situation is making it harder for people to enjoy the threads.

I’m not asking you to take my word for it, but I would appreciate it if you could review the situation, assess the evidence, and decide whether action is warranted.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

My, I wonder if you'll ban everyone in the thread Janny rather than admit you're wrong (and retarded).

Are you going to be reasonable, or are you going to be king of the ashes?

I'd be nicer to you, but on the other hand? Fuck you. You're actively contributing to this site being worse with how you're acting.

>C-compwaining about 4chan moder-moderwa-
Maybe if you weren't shit at your job people wouldn't be talking about you like this.
Funny how I can tell the Subway boy to stop measuring his dick using the footlong bread, but Jannies are apparently too sensitive and effete to endure critique.

Dear Mod,

These threads are now at a complete standstill because one of your staff isn't doing his job.

I kindly ask that you review the archives for the past dozen or so /osrg/ threads to understand the issues we’ve been dealing with.

I’m not here to cause trouble—I’m here to discuss OSR games. However, the actions of your janitor are significantly impacting these threads, and I’d like to highlight a few concerns:

1. Allowing a particularly disruptive troll to dominate the threads with tantrums, while silencing anyone who attempts to report or address the issue.

2. Ignoring reports—I've personally reported this individual and seen no action taken.

3. When reports are acknowledged, the typical response seems to be a short 24-hour ban, after which the troll returns, continuing their disruptive behavior, knowing full well their actions won’t be properly addressed due to their relationship with staff.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask your team to enforce some basic standards and ensure the quality of this site is upheld. I understand the nature of this place can be chaotic, but we all want to maintain a certain level of respect and focus in our discussions. The current situation is making it harder for people to enjoy the threads.

I’m not asking you to take my word for it, but I would appreciate it if you could review the situation, assess the evidence, and decide whether action is warranted.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Any OSR games that are similar to Dungeon World or are otherwise pbta?

>>95915643
Taking a moment off from bullying the Janny, not really, I like PbtA but they're opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of game genre.
PbtA aims to ape genre tropes and play towards a specific style, usually a pretty pulpy, 'details don't matter, guns are either full or on the last bullet, don't sweat the details' type deal.
OSR meanwhile tends to be very, very specific about the details, things like time, rations, torches, ect are all essential components.

Think of PbtA as something like an FPS, run and gun action with high speed and low drag, maybe Doom or something similar where you've got plenty of tools at your disposal and can deal with problems fast and loose.
OSR is more like Survival Horror, every bullet counts and you better be making sure you leave the exit open in case you want to back out of the situation you're in.

Neither is wrong, they're just different. Sorry to disappoint.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td0d62jzGN8

>>95915643
depends entirely on what similarities you're looking for

>>95915693
Have you ever heard Tolkien reading it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2M8Ks0xiaxM
Shit's great.

>>95915703
The lightness and ease of rules while still encouraging role playing not roll playing

>>95915738
Interesting accent. Like the unholy child of Die Antwoord and Queen Elizabeth.

>>95915689
You may genuinely be insane.

>>95915757
Mazes Fantasy Roleplaying is a fairly light dungeon crawler. It uses its own unique (and fairly clever) system, but it's also rather loose as a result.

It does its best to pay homage to old school RPGs, but it's definitely more about playing a role than worrying about rules or adhering to any classical mechanics, and shares almost nothing with D&D except for aiming for the general "feel" but with its own lighter mechanics. In a way, it might be exactly what you're asking for.

If you want a more pure and historical example, flick through some B/X (D&D Basic and Expert) and see if that gets any blood flowing in your nether region. Basic is pretty basic.

>>95915916
>You may genuinely be insane.
Name a thing I said that's wrong then.

I repeat; I'm not shitting on PbtA, it's just that PbtA is up there with FATE in terms of 'Don't sweat the details'

Is a ranged attack that never runs out of ammo but only does 1d3 damage significantly better than a bow, thrown daggers/darts?

>>95915974
That's some Marvel bullshit. We're not playing superheroes here.

>>95916007
That wasn't the question.

>>95916028
It's not the answer you want, it's the one you deserve.

>>95914568
>gimmick barghest
>google barghest
>witcher shit
i apologize i have never read or played polish adventure men series, but ill take that as a compliment

>>95915974
Depends on if it can be used for utility. Cutting ropes, ect, if so? Yes, 100%
I'd say just hold out and put a magic, returning throwing axe in a dungeon somewhere then leave it to the players to decide if they want to use it.

>>95916079
>barghest
>witcher shit
You uncultured swine anon!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barghest

>>95916079
>barghest
>witcher shit
You uncultured swine anon!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barghest

>>95915974
Yes, giving players infinite resources of any kind is generally retarded and can break the game. For instance in your case unlimited ammo plus some decently fast mount like even a riding horse can enable a player to safely skirmish and kite most monsters wilderness without any threat. All sorts of exploits can be found with infinite resources.

>>95916106
>not witcher shit after all
My apologies
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barghest
After reading what it actually is, I do not see the similarity

my creature seems cooler than a ghost dog, no offense to Ghost Dawg

>>95916087
I should go into more detail here. You know how Labyrinth Lord changes the cleric spell progression to give clerics spells from level 1?

My idea is a way to down-power magic-users. Basically, shift their spell progression down one level, so that they get 1 level 1 spell at level 2, like clerics used to, but compensate them a bit by letting them have read magic, detect magic, and some sort of magical attack that never runs out of uses and deals 1d3 damage, as spell-like abilities at level 1. Read and detect magic probably should be at will, and the attack maybe 3 times per day or perhaps at will, or something like that.

That still lets the class feel like it handles its problems with magic from level 1, but it ramps down their power considerably in later levels.

>>95916118
>monsters act without any intelligence or considerations
Oh, you play like that.

>>95916166
Sadly I know nothing about LL so I can't help you much.

In principle it feels fucky though.

>>95916166
I'm using Labyrinth Lord as an example here. It's be the same with any B/X based game.

>>95916108
Janny you dirty, smelly cocksucker, that was a completely on topic post!

>>95916079
>>95916147
It's literally a d&d monster you buffoon
>>95915974
Does it requires resources? A tool?
Literally why not just throw daggers?

>>95916169
>logistics don't matter!

>>95916198
I'm really getting tired of this shit

>>95916289
okay after reading MMII entry, I can see the similarities.

I will change feeding on the hearts of men to maybe feeding on magic items or something like that.

The planar shenanigans is also different in scope, they can stay in Gehenna and let the babies feed upon the material plane. New creature idea is born of a singular stage 1 creature that if left unaddressed becomes a potential realm wide issue by stage 3

Thank you for pointing me toward the creature in question, I will get back to the drawing board from here!

>YWVAG

>>95916387
Alright, I'll cut it out for now.
I don't want to ruin the thread for anyone or make it inhospitable.

>>95916387
Deleting random comments is part of their trolling project to destroy this general. Luckily, they don't have any actual power over us. Save this handy guide.

>>95916415
No man, I'm talking about the rampant deletion of posts that are completely innocuous.
The last thread had over 1/3 of the posts completely deleted, if it's like this every thread, the janitor has gone completely insane, like he doesn't realize that he was literally doxed 2 months ago

>>95916433
Another good technique, is if you have access to a mobile device with cellular data, every time you get banned, just download a new browser

>>95916440
Oh thank god for that, I thought I was going to have to stop for a moment there.
In that case:
>Ting-ting
Fuck Jannies.

>>95916433
>>95916451
>Another good technique, is if you have access to a mobile device with cellular data, every time you get banned, just download a new browser
Cool, but it should not be necessary: Deleting cookies and changing IP ought to be enough. If they fingerprint your device, then sure.

>>95916471
Sorry I am not good with computer I just hate janoids

>>95916481
No worries, it's still an extreme remedy to keep in mind. At the very least it can be useful on other websites.

What we're lacking is a technique to load deleted messages on smartphones, but in that case you can just browse 4plebs directly instead of 4chan, and use 4chan exclusively for posting. Has the added benefit of taking traffic away from 4chan = less ad revenue.

https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/95911468/

>>95916433
Great guide, saved.

>>95916516
>What we're lacking is a technique to load deleted messages on smartphones, but in that case you can just browse 4plebs directly instead of 4chan, and use 4chan exclusively for posting. Has the added benefit of taking traffic away from 4chan = less ad revenue.
Brilliant, will start doing it right away.

To the Janny:
You see the shit you're causing here?
All you have to do is stop being a prick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPY5P0TaC4k

>>95915841
>Interesting accent. Like the unholy child of Die Antwoord and Queen Elizabeth.
It's because he was actually raised in South Africa IIRC.

>>95915841
"Die, Antwood!" would be a great name for an adventure.

>>95916627
>>95916659
>To the Janny:
>You see the shit you're causing here?
>All you have to do is stop being a prick.
This WILL spread to other threads if they don't stop this bullshit. We just want to be left alone and have our space the way it's always been.

>>95916166
Your plan sucks IMO. You're turning M-Us from primarily utility casters with one blasting-oriented spell level into... the exact same thing but slightly slower and with a built-in implication that M-Us are *supposed* to be magic artillery. Not great.

>>95914297
+2 Back Scratcher. +2 to rolls to itch user's back.

>>95916787
Good. Fuck 'im, I hope they take away his hot pockets loyalty card for this shit.

Dear Janny: I'm glad those basedjack cultist freaks doxxed you.
I hope one of them comes over and shits through your letterbox.

>>95916817
>cursed backscratcher
>makes your back itchy, and the itchy spot moves out of reach when you go to scratch it

>>95916900
Truly, the fate of all time.

>>95916785
A sentient forest that has mesmerized giant ants to enact it's wicked will. The source of the intelligence however, is really an enchanted subsoil fungus, like real world mycorrhizal networks.

Running a session of my ongoing B/X campaign at a local con tomorrow. Gonna invite randoms to join in on my players usual shenanigans. Y'all got any advice or recommendations for running fun games in a convention setting?

Whelp, while Fishfag is banned (for 24 hours, am I right), I just wanted to say lads.
As one of several people he keeps getting into fights with/accusing of being a shill.
Sorry that my presence activates his brain worms and causes him to go into overdrive.
Mea culpa and I hope that it really is just him that's pissed off about anything I post rather than my presence being a detriment to the /osrg/.

>>95917001
>Mea culpa
Nah, not your fault.

>I hope that it really is just him that's pissed off about anything I post rather than my presence being a detriment to the /osrg/.
You know it, niggy. Nobody's to blame for autism except the autist. And maybe his mom who had kids too old.

>>95916957
Toss in a little more Die Vecna Die and we've got a stew cooking. Cult of wild men that worships the fungus, wears giant ant parts as armor, and the fungus is actually rooted in the corpse of a god the cult wants to resurrect.

As a side note, Die Vecna Die! is really a great adventure. Stupid, but great, a nice capstone for 2e.

>>95917001
Stand your ground.

>>95917001
>>95917050
I really wish you would just leave this general and board. You're making the rest of us look bad.

>>95917132
You're outnumbered.

>>95917152
The entire board hates you and is slowly starting to hate OSR because of you. Even just the people who want to use this general like normal have to wonder if it's even safe to post or whether they'll catch a stray ban thanks to you.

>>95917197
Stop getting yourself banned and post on topic.

>>95917197
Nah that's just you. Stop posting things that ae bannable

>>95917077
Please don't discuss off-topic modules here.

>>95916958
Treat it lightly. Only bad convention experience I ever had was when a DM bullied a poor girl for struggling with the rules. We gave him a little slack at first since he seemed nervous out of his mind, but that switched to the entire table turning on him when he called her stupid.

Does anyone have an example or explanation for Appendix A? There are some things I don't fully grasp yet, for instance does a passage or door that leads into a chamber/room already count towards the amount of exits (Table V. C.)? How does the footnote of Table V. D. work in regards to finding secret doors in a dead end or checking once every 10' like mentioned in the footnote above? Also passage width is only checked in case of passage turns (IV.) and not with side passages (III.)? Lastly but to me quite intriguing, what is the difference between a chamber and a room apart from the size table and whether the single exit on a roll of 19 or 20 (V. C.) is a door or a passage?

>>95918357
>what is the difference between a chamber and a room

To me, a room is a generic four walled space. A chamber, while synonymous, connotes a space of special significance such as a noble’s office or altar or private quarters.

>ARISE, ARISE, ANONS OF /OSRG/

4chan was created as a place for free speech. It is not censorable, because users are Anonymous. Current owners are trying to run this place as if it were plebbit, but it's simply impossible, because users cannot be banned, and all posts are archived.

We've asked kindly, we've explained the situation. You decided to keep punishing us
>>95915292
>>95915402
>>95915510
>>95915642

Follow the board and this general directly on 4 plebs.

Follow the instructions in picrel to bypass blocks. You can always post. Your posts will always appear on 4 plebs.

> Ride now, ride now, ride to /osrg/! Ride for ruin, and the world’s ending! DEATH!!

>>95918945
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/search/subject/osrg/

I am very confused on how sleep works on a group of enemies with different Hit Dice. Does it only affect one group? Is it random? Do you roll 4d4 once? I don't get it

>>95918953
>>95919424
>I am very confused on how sleep works on a group of enemies with different Hit Dice. Does it only affect one group? Is it random? Do you roll 4d4 once? I don't get it
B/X or AD&D? I presume AD&D because of the 4d4 bit, so I've written the attached infographics just for you.

Remember to ALWAYS check the DMG for clarifications and corrections to PHB spells!

>>95919510
Thanks that clears it up!

>>95912437
>the first recorded use of the term OSR referred explicitly to OD&D, AD&D 1e, and B/X, not to some nebulous "simpler game".
If you mean the infamous Foster post of 11 Aug 2004, you're almost right but almost right is still wrong. You can have partial credit for OD&D and B/X but it was not explicitly "AD&D 1e", it was just "AD&D". He wrote
>If the 'old-school revival' continues to pick up steam ... some bean-counter at Hasbro who doesn't have an emotional attachment to the current edition is going to realize that there's a demand (i.e. money to be made) for 'collector's editions' of the classic games (OD&D, AD&D, B/X D&D) and we'll see them back on the shelves in some form or another.

While he did refer explicitly to some games he didn't refer exclusively to those, didn't even suggest that OSR was exclusively those. He didn't define OSR, he just said that some undefined, pre-existing OSR involved in some way a demand for classic reprints.

>>since C&C was the game that sparked the "rennaissance"
>False, the first recorded use of "OSR" predates the publication of C&C by several months.
That's irrelevant and it doesn't falsify the statement. As that anon has pointed out, C&C has a development history that precedes the Foster Post. Things can exist before they are named and people can start to create things before their efforts spark a popular movement and that movement gains a name.

>>The K&K crowd are not the founders of OSR.
>Web archives say otherwise.
So you're saying on the one hand that Foster made the first post about OSR and that launched OSR.

But on the other hand, KNK started OSR even though Jerry only launched the website itself in 2004, and its forums only arrived more than 4 months after Foster's post. Foster could only join KNK after it actually existed so there was no KNK crowd when OSR already existed.

Make up your fucking mind.

>>95912675
The other anon is correct. They had copies at Gen Con only as box sets not hard cover printings.
>It first appeared, in the now-famous White Box Set, at Gencon in 2004.

>>95920036
>it was not explicitly "AD&D 1e"
If you know ANYTHING about Trent, of course he meant AD&D and not AD&D 2e: He loathes AD&D 2e, and he's made it clear a bunch of times. Also, the post was on the Dragonsfoot AD&D forum, not on the 2e forum.

>Jerry only launched the website itself in 2004
Yeah, the K&KA guys had a schism with Dragonsfoot precisely over AD&D 2e, so they created their own forum so that it would be free from it. And the OSR movement took shape progressively in K&KA, until a few years later it began to become mainstream, which is what prompted Trent to make the other famous post, in which he explains what OSR means.

>C&C has a development history that precedes the Foster Post
By that logic, D&D 3e had a development history that precedes the Foster Post, so it's OSR as well. The expression "OSR" doesn't appear anywhere in the C&C rulebooks nor in the D&D 3e books, which is why neither is OSR. Your association of C&C with OSR is your own post-hoc fantasy.

>>95920036
>it was not explicitly "AD&D 1e", it was just "AD&D"
AD&D *is* AD&D 1e. There was never an edition called "AD&D 1e", it was always called just AD&D.

If someone says "AD&D" they're referring to AD&D, not to AD&D 2e. Doubly so if it's Trent, like the Anon above already explained.

>>95919510
Very good explanation on all points. I personally think this kind of logic is one of the hardest things for newcomers to AD&D to learn, it's not really intuitive.

>My prophet said this about AD&D
>My prophet said that about AD&D
I laugh at both of you, as I simply follow the spirit and examples of Gary Gygax (play be upon him) instead of his words.

>>95920077
>And the OSR movement took shape progressively in K&KA,
No, it really didn't. K&K was tiny, only a few hundred people at most (with their total forum membership barely breaching 1,000 in totality), and had effectively isolated themselves from the rest of the OSR community. I'm actually genuinely surprised you hold them in any esteem whatsoever, largely because I thought you guys had died out.

The K&K were a group with inflated egos who probably assumed that their new forum would be huge and influential, but they unfortunately bought into the lies they themselves had tried to spread and ended up just as bitter exiles.

Trying to give them credit or even sole credit for OSR is frankly bizarre. You might imagine them as being in some elitist white tower looking down on the "unpure" masses, but the proper image is a tiny group in a self-dug hole wondering where all the followers they told themselves they had were.

>>95920402
Sucking Gygax's dick makes you gayer than anyone else.
>GA4Y2
Even captch thinks you're double gay.

>>95920460
The term "OSR" was coined by someone who excluded AD&D 2e from it.

No amount of biblical exegesis can change this simple, incontrovertible fact.

>K&KA had effectively isolated themselves from the rest of the OSR community
No, they *founded* the OSR, as shown by web records and forum posts. They created the OSR acronym, and then created the retroclone that was based off that acronym, OSRIC.

There was no "rest of the community" until the OSR acronym that THEY invented got appropriated by other people to mean something different.

>>95920077
>The expression "OSR" doesn't appear anywhere in the C&C rulebooks
Kinda hard for it to be there when it's what helped spark it in the first place.

Prior to C&C, the OSR community was very, very small. Remember that the internet itself was still quite young, with dial up being the only connection method available. Around 2000, we're talking about small groups scattered across the country who communicated via tech like newsletters and email chains. The Dragonsfoot forums became something like a hub around 2002, but even then it was smaller than even some generals on this board.

C&C was built with this community in mind, and when it became a financial success, it acted like a gateway, bringing in thousands of people into the OSR community, in part thanks to an endorsement from Gygax. With the d20 market being by far the largest at the time and C&C succesfully managing to tap some of it, it essentially added the "Revival" to the "Old School."

2004 and 2005 in the OSR community was a world of difference. You can't give C&C sole credit, but it did lead to considerable amounts of both people and money to flow into the community by being a proof of concept: a succesful 'new' game built on the 'old school' style.

>>95920519
OSR isn't even a single term. How could it be coined by a single person?

Old School Revival and Old School Renaissance were both in use in 2004, but people were talking about Old School (and 'Skool' for some unholy reason) Revivals even in 2003. A good amount of the early Dragonsfoot discussion was being upset that WotC held all the rights for all the editions of D&D, but were not reprinting any of the old books, making them increasingly scarce. The original "revival" they were hoping for was just new books, and when their attempts to petition WotC failed (because the community was so small that it didn't seem worth it), the possibility of this revival taking a new form took shape. And, that shape was an OGL-compatible (and thus resistant to WotC's legal barbs) game that proved that there was a ready market for "old skool" games. C&C was an Old School Revival that lead to and Old School Renaissance.

And, amusingly, with WotC being very smart and very quick, WotC did eventually end up re-releasing older editions of D&D. Starting with some 2e books in 2013, because being a decade late and going with the less popular edition is just perfectly on brand. The books are nice though, to be fair.

>>95920755
The whole "old skool revival" had a lot of cult-like similarities. People back then were basically praying for salvation, praying for a second-coming.

I'm surprised they didn't go with "old school resurrection."

>>95920137
If someone refers to AD&D, they'e referring to AD&D, both 1e and 2e. Adding further specifications to push your point is incredibly dishonest, especially because if someone wanted to specifically exclude 2e they would specify just as you did. There's a chance that Trent wished he could exclude 2e, but considering that's the kind of misstep that lead to the K&K exile, he likely thought better of it.

>>95920836
>f someone refers to AD&D, they'e referring to AD&D, both 1e and 2e.
There's no such thing as "both AD&D and AD&D 2e", since they're two different editions. And there's no book called "AD&D 1e". Just look at the covers, and see what the two different editions are called:

Top one: AD&D

Bottom one: AD&D 2nd edition

That's all very interesting NOT, but the OP of /osrg/ says "first decade", so it's completely moot.

>>95920950
Stop feeding the trolls, it's irrelevant. Stay on topic, they have nothing to discuss anyway, they're only here to troll and disrupt, and you're playing their game.

>>95920950
That logic only works if the 2nd edition doesn't exist yet.

Do you have a problem with time, cause and effect, and basic logic? Is this also why you asked why the game that helped spark the OSR didn't specifically mention the OSR?

>>95920977
To be honest the OP is worded badly. It should be rewritten IMO to be more clear with the exact same meaning.

The "first decade" part sounds silly if you read it literally:
Do you start with chainmail? 72-82 excludes BECMI.
Do you start with 0e? 74-84 excludes chainmail, M and I, Rules Cyclopedia, and Wrath of The Immortals (replacement for I in RC).
Do you use a full 79-89? You get 1e, B/X and BECMI, but mistakenly lets in 2e and kicks out 0e + Holmes
Obviously, none of these are correct.

The "derived systems" and "compatible content" bits clumsily patch this over, and allow the first interpretation to work. Albiet this just makes "derived" & "compatible" shoulder the burden, which is - I think - where the confusion lies.

I do not think anyone would disagree that non-2e, non-system content from TSR or the 80s 3pp or current indie retroclone scene - modules and supplements - are allowed. Excluding the few story stinkers put out in the 80s (and retroclone scene) that I don't think anyone would vouch for.

Common ground established, we get to asking where the line is. I believe that to be:
System and the intentions of gameplay.

There IS a case to be made for running post-80s SETTINGS (Eberron, Dark sun, etc) in an obviously OSR fashion. Hell most info on Blackmoor is in 3e era books.
The reason 2e gets so heated is that it bears at-a-glance mechanical resemblence to 1e. BUT the big focus on "story" is baked into the rules to motivate play in a very different fashion. Many of the published adventures further hammer this home. Despite that, backporting story-free 2e (or later) content to one of the earlier editions is very doable. Monsters/NPC, spells, items, setting material, etc.

As long as the focus is on the OSR play as the engine, not using rules that are obviously antithetical to the spirit of things. I would see it the same as if someone homebrewed thigs to run a TES or Zelda or another dungeon-heavy videogame setting with BECMI or something.

>>95921424
This is unhealthy autism.
OSR is loose. 4chan is loose.
There's no question that the OP is written poorly, but trying to make something widely understood to not be exact have some sort of exact definition is leaning more into the mistake rather than away.

Common ground was established ages ago. OSR games resemble early RPGs (or are early RPGs). Trying to pin down exactly what that means wasn't possible even at the start of the OSR, and now it's exponentially more difficult thanks to the proliferation within the genre, alongside greater accessibility (and knowledge) of older games.

That's a cause for celebration, not frustration.

>>95921424
This is obvious sophistry. First decade of D&D means first decade of D&D, it's not rocket science.

You don't start in 1972 because D&D was published in 1974.

You don't start in 1979 because D&D was published in 1974.

>B-but what if the decade starts in 2007?
Then it's not the first decade of D&D.

>>95921603
The sophistry is pretending the "first decade" is some sort of strict law, or that OSR was ever defined by that decade.

As said above, holding it to a strict ten years, even by your date, cuts out considerable amounts of widely accepted OSR content, even by the K&K cult standards. To shift the ten years down the line to include the excluded then excludes earlier material.

If you want to pretend we need to follow a strict definition, your definition can't fail so hard so immediately.

>>95920950
>>95920977
>>95920989
Deleting perfectly okay comments again, and leaving off-topic troll comments up again?

>>95921669
>The sophistry is pretending the "first decade" is some sort of strict law, or that OSR was ever defined by that decade.
It's defined like this HERE, and it's been defined like this for many years. Make your own thread if you don't like it.

We're not going anywhere.

You have no power.

>>95920755
To be fair to WotC in a way they likely don't deserve, the nascent OSR community wasn't talking to WotC in the places where WotC was actually listening.
On WotC's own platforms the retro D&D fans were talking about the Black Isle videogames based on 2E, not on any actual printed edition of the game.
This is something the Warhammer fans seem to fail to understand too, vitriolic bitching on social media doesn't get listened to, nor does complaining outside of the company owned ecosystems. If you want the game to change in a way the developers will actually notice, you have to do it where they're is actually paying attention.

>>95921669
It's an "Appeal to Authority", except the "Authority" is just some OP text anyone can make or change, and is generally ignored and given little consideration. At the point where we're supposed to treat it like some kind of charter is the point where we have to actually debate the merits of the text, vote or otherwise ratify it, and fall into a spiral of faux politics.
Considering how lame and unneccesary that sounds, it's probably best to just not bother pretending it has any sort of authority, especially since the inevitable escalation is just people racing to make the general early just so they can use their own preferred text/images, and then having competing threads for added pointless drama.

>>95921812
>>95921669
If you don't like this thread and you feel as though you are being personally excluded, you should feel free to create something for yourself instead of endless complaints that this thread is not what you want

Would you approve of giving ranged weapons and cavalry to Lizardfolk warbands (B/X & OSE) in order to not get kited to death by a player party on riding horses?

>>95921981
Why tf not???

>>95921991
Because I'm a retard.
But /osrg/ always got my back.

>>95921951
So, what you're saying is that if someone made the OSR General early and just went ahead and listed whatever games they thought were OSR, you'd finally shut up, regardless of what games they listed?
That's extremely tempting.

/OSRG/- Exclusively Tunnels and Trolls!
The TnT revolution begins today!

>A purity spiral is a social phenomenon or theory describing a form of groupthink where members of a group compete to hold increasingly extreme or "pure" ideological views, often to demonstrate their loyalty or zealotry. In this dynamic, more extreme views are rewarded, while expressing doubt, nuance, or moderation is punished—a process sometimes called "moral outbidding." This feedback loop causes members to escalate their positions to prove their ideological purity, often leading to intolerance and infighting within the group.
>Purity spirals typically occur when a community fixates on enforcing a single value that has no upper limit and lacks a clear, agreed-upon interpretation. This results in a "moral feeding frenzy" where minor transgressions are harshly punished, and members engage in competitive virtue signaling. The phenomenon can lead to radicalization within the group or cause members to leave due to the extreme pressures.
>Historically, purity spirals have been observed in various contexts, including political movements, social justice groups, and even seemingly unrelated communities like online knitting circles. They are linked to concepts like preference falsification (hiding true opinions to conform) and mimetic rivalry (competing by imitation), which contribute to the spiral's momentum and difficulty to halt.

>>95921981
>Would you approve of giving ranged weapons and cavalry to Lizardfolk warbands (B/X & OSE) in order to not get kited to death by a player party on riding horses?
== General philosophy ==

Don't create ad-hoc encounters for a specific party, that's railroading bullshit. Create a setting that makes sense, with monsters that make sense, and run it as an impartial REFEREE.

So if the party attacks a group of Lizard Men (not "lizardfolk") and uses a tactic that was particularly effective, the Lizard Men will either run away to a safer place, or be prepared in some way, that's perfectly acceptable.

But I wouldn't *preemptively* start to arm groups of monsters that have never met the PCs in a very specific way just to defeat a specific tactic that the players have deployed effectively against other groups.

== Specific advice ==

AD&D Lizard Men often have javelins. They are almost always found near bodies of water. This means if they see a party of riders charging them, they will throw javelins and then dive in the water where they can't be reached, and then they will use guerrilla tactics, appearing out of the murky water, potentially with surprise, throw javelins, and then dive back underwater.

>But Lizard Men have 12 Morale!
This means they don't break purely to morale, not that they are suicidal and can be "kited" by mounted archers. They have more than adequate intelligence for battle. Guerrilla tactics is not a morale failure.

Last but not least, AD&D 2e is off-topic on /osrg/.

>>95921981
While I can see Lizardfolk using ranged weapons like throwing spears I am not so sure about mounts. What would they be riding? If it is something like four legged lizards would they be fast enough to keep up with horses?

>>95921951
The OP text isn't even as strict as you imagine it is. Derrived systems and compatible content opens things up considerably, and you'd do well to learn what the word "broadly" means.
If you want to play the "annoying dickcunt lawyer game where we pretend some text is way more important than it actually is," at least look at the text you're trying to treat as dogma.

>>95922057
>crying face revolution

>>95922087
I just had a thought for a great mount for them. Giant dragonflies. That would make them a huge thread to pretty much anyone going into their territory.

>>95922138
>That would make them a huge thread to pretty much anyone going into their territory.>>95922138

Aside from anyone riding giant frogs.

>>95921559
>nuh actually any game is OSR just by virtue of being subjectively "old", it's not even about D&D
He's getting more retarded by the minute!

>>95922057
I'm sure your thread will do well!
>>95922083
Wtf why is this deleted??

>>95922082
It's been touted again! All aboard!

>>95922129
>>95922082
Remember /todd/?

>>95922150
We discuss a lot of non-D&D games here. Were you unaware?

>>95920519
It's crazy that something this obviously correct gets deleted while the obvious retard troll trying to claim everything and anything is OSR isn't.

>>95922057
>being this retarded
Can't tell if it's worse if you're actually dumb enough to think this is logic or if you're just dumb enough to think it'll work rhetorically.

>>95922087
No on plains, but in a swamp/lake/river/jungle?
The swim/climb speeds of a lizard will be valuable

>>95922129
>Derrived systems and compatible content opens things up considerably
No, not really, it just means retroclones, not 2e.

>muh broadly
Still not broad enough to encompass 2e.

>>95922171
He *still* refuses to acknowledge why shadowdark and morkborg are just as off topic as 2e.

>>95911468 (OP)
>see OSR general
>look at replies in OSR general
>it's retarded bickering about what the OSR even is to begin with
Eternally BTFO'd, zoomzoom ttrpg community is inevitable

>>95922169
jej

>>95922149
Maybe the lizardfolk are at war with some frog people like Bullywugs or grippli and they ride giant frogs.

>>95920836
Absolutely wrong as a matter of practical, empirical fact. When someone says AD&D he means 1e only. It's also abundantly clear that Trent specifically meant only 1e, anyone can fact check this easily.

>>95922188
If they are fighting in areas with lots of water then the players horses are not going to be that useful.

>>95922171
It's not crazy at all. Since their thesis is obviously retarded, the only way she can support it and promote it is by deleting all proof that she is retarded.

Except she can't really delete proof, most of us read the archive at this point. Which makes her even more retarded. It's hilarious at this point.

>>95922083
Very reasonable advice.

>>95922214
>they ride giant frogs
Wouldn't it make more sense for them to ride giant lizards?

>>95920989
Unfortunately, we have to keep stressing this as long as the jannies selectively delete only those posts which go against the false 2e narrative. This has been explained many times.

>>95922236
>she
You know this nigga ain't a girl even though he wishes he was.

>>95922236
I mean the frog people the ride giant frogs. They do so to counter the giant dragonflies

>>95922204
The OSR has a long history of suffering from idiot trolls. Two decades ago, a tiny group tried to demand everyone accept their limited definition of what an OSR was on the Dragonsfoot forums, and their constant trolling lead them to be exiled, and they had to make their own forum, a forum less than a tenth the size of the one they were banished from.

It seems like some of those trolls have migrated from their dead forum to here, hoping that 4chan is the place where they can demand their cult's ideas be treated with respect rather than ridicule. I think it's because they feel immune to being banned/exiled here.

>>95922083
This guy's points are all excellent.

>>95922199
Shadowdark is an OSR game, though, as discussed previously. It's entirely possible for an OSR game to be kinda shit. For my part I don't even like S&W, very halfassed clone of OD&D that doesn't capture what made the original great. Some top-notch third party modules for it though.

>>95922239
>>95922264
Oh, I had missed the dragonflies part for some reason.

>>95922138
>Giant dragonflies
I love that!

>>95922289
>he's still disregarding that the 2e board on Dragonsfoot is a containment board with 2e discussion not allowed on the main board

>migrated
We've been here the whole time and it's doubtful whether even a single anon is a K&KA poster, whereas you are a single sperg. Nobody has ever changed the topic and limits of this thread, it's always been the same. Start your own thread for the stuff you want to talk about, or just fuck off.

>>95922235
Precisely
>>95922289
Holy cope, seek meds

PSA: OSR or not, second edition is still a dogshit bowdlerised knock-off for the storygaming special education kids of Satanic Panic moms.

>>95922303
SD is """"OSR"""", but completely off-topic for /osrg/

>>95921951
We've had multiple attempts to make a less purity spiral circle generals for broader classic D&D and (((You))) come into those threads and shit your pants so fucking loudly and consistently for weeks on end that they become unusable for discussion.

>>95922342
TRUKE

>>95922342
>>95922375
Nice opinion you have there gamelet, which youtuber gave it to you?

>>95922370
What like /todd/, the thread that lingers on life support with less than fifty posts in two weeks?

>>95922384
I've been playing ad&d and 2e for almost twenty years and I don't watch goytube

>>95922370
That literally didn't happen. Nobody from /osrg/ trolled /todd/, on the contrary more than one /osrg/ poster admitted to bumping it and trying to start conversations just to keep it alive as a working containment thread because /osrg/ was so good when you all fucked off. Your ravaged asses just couldn't keep the peace between yourselves.

>>95922324
Reality does not reflect your imagination. It's not in a containment board, and is given just the same treatment as the other early editions. 2e is actually slightly more popular than OD&D on those forums.

>>95922342
>OSR or not
It's not though.

But yes, it's also a castrated game for speds, correct.

>>95922370
lolwut? I wish you luck on your endeavours, but /todd/, /nsrg/, and /2eg/ all died because of lack of activity, every single time. Even when the two week bump limit was manually removed for /todd/, it stayed up for more than a month, in good part thanks to good faith bumps from yours truly and other Anons who genuinely wanted to help, and yet it never reached 300 posts.

Calling K&KA a tiny community from someone who can't support a thread on /tg/ is hilarious, btw. If they're tiny what are you? One autist with an Internet connection and too much time on her hands.

>>95922415
Zoomer revisionism based on delusions.
2e isn't allowed on the 1e board just like it's not allowed in /osrg/

>>95922415
>It's not in a containment board
*In* a containment board? What are you even talking about? It *is* a containment board, and yes that does look the same as the other boards. Of course it does, archgenius. /mlp/ and /lgbt/ are inarguably containment boards on this site and yet they look the same and are listed the same way as the other boards.

>2e is actually slightly more popular than OD&D on those forums.
Right, which was why the K&KA gang didn't want the board ot even be allowed in the first place: they knew 2efags would colonize that space and give a false impression.

>>95922415
>/mlp/ isn't a containment board!

>>95922370
>(((You)))
Cool it with the antisemitic posting

>>95922437
>and yet it never reached 300 posts.
NAYRT but remind me, did it even reach 200 posts? My memory is it died at like 177 or something.

And all that work because a single angry nigger can't cope with liking somethign objectively bad. Crazy.

>>95922439
/osrg/ isn't /1eg/ though.

To be brutally honest, /osrg/ couldn't exist as /1eg/. When you K&K trolls are not having a tantrum, this general is actually quite slow, and would be much, much slower if it was devoted to just 1e. Or just OD&D. Even all official editions combined, plus 3rd-party games, barely keeps this general afloat. Trying to exclude one edition and saying "if you want to discuss it, make your own general" is really just being a pretty dumb cunt.

You guys do realize the guy shitting up this thread and getting other posters banned is doing it with sock puppets, mass reporting, and likely reprot bots, right?

For instance, This post will get deleted shortly via his tactics.

>>95922522
Yes, it's /osrg/ and it categorically excludes 2e.

>>95922534
Seek help

>>95922384
Which part you disagree with?

>Dogshit
Picrel

>bowdlerised
>Satanic Panic moms
Openly admitted and discussed by Jim Ward in the Dragon Magazine article on the "Angry Mother Syndrome". Issue #154, page 9.

>storygaming
It obviously promotes railroading and instructs the DM to reward playing along with the railroad by awarding XP for story goals.

>special education kids
The language and presentation was very heavily dumbed down with respect to AD&D, and the target demographics went from young adult wargamers who could buy their own books to kids who had to convince their mothers to buy it for them, see the Dragon Magazine article cited above.

>>95922522
>Trying to
It's not a matter of trying. It always has been excluded, and it always will be. It's simply outside the scope of this general, insofar as it's not an OSR game. It's precisely like excluding 3e, which is uncontroversial and obvious.

So, has everybody noticed that for all his seething the 2efag STILL hasn't even tried to answer the simple question of why he even wants to be part of this general, where everyone dislikes both him and his game and only discuss it to condemn it?

I for one have never even seen him try, he just tries to pretend the posts asking the question don't exist.

>>95922455
Was there a group demanding that mlp be excluded from the rest of 4chan that ended up getting exiled?
The K&K cult got banned from Dragonsfoot for trying to do that with 2e and other games.

So, let's look at the evidence.
>Dragonsfoot doesn't have any containment boards
>2e discussion is allowed outside of the 2e boards, partly out of just how many games/products are compatible with both 1e and 2e; MLP discussion, however, is actually banned on 4chan outside of /mlp/
>the people who trolled about 2e were banned from DF and had to make a forum in exile, essentially their own board to contain their autism that had been banned from DF: ie. A containment board

Ironic, in a way.

>>95922534
I'd never say that someone should dig out a report bot and just pour it on him.
But I'm also going to say this: what other people do isn't my concern.

>He gets a 24 hour ban
>The threads are peaceful
>It expires
>He immediately goes back to shitting the place up
For what purpose 2eigger?
Why can't you just go somewhere else?

>>95922342
>special education kids
You say yet you don't like it.
>Satanic Panic
TSR making changes because of the panic makes a lot more sense when you remember that people were getting arrested for being "Satanists" with some even going to jail. When shit like that is happening anyone with a brain acts more careful.

>>95922625
>making shit up
Is there something genuinely wrong with you? There hasn't been a full 24 hours of this thread being nice and quiet for quite some time now.

>>95922590
>The K&K cult got banned from Dragonsfoot for trying to do that with 2e and other games.
Lmao, imagine fabrication history this hard. IIRC not a single K&KA poster got banned from DF over the split, they just started their own board as well and many of them continued to post on both boards.

>>95922559
If you think the Giff are not cool then you are probably too stupid to play tabletop games and the rest of your post can be safely ignored

This general has seen better days.

>>95922654
>I'll have you know I've never left this general in peace for a full day!
kek, not the flex you think it is, spam-kun

>>95922675
>not a single K&KA poster got banned from DF over the split
Correct. Most kept posting on both DF and K&KA.

>>95922590
I just checked the Megadungeons sub-board, and there's a decent amount of 2e discussion in there. Same with the Worlds of TSR sub-board. And the Campaign Journals. And the GGWoG.

It really doesn't look like that 2e sub-board is acting like a containment board in the slightest capacity.

>>95922746
Excellent! You can go there then, and leave this little corner of the internet well alone.

>>95922607
What's that supposed to achieve, exactly? Reports are all still approved manually.

>>95922761
I'll take this as confirmation that you accept that 2e is not in a containment board on DF.

>>95922772
I don't give a fuck about the 2e forum on Dragonsfoot. All that matters is that it's always been off-topic here. And that it's dogshit.

>>95922706
Mentally ill janny. How is he tollerated? Is there no standard for letting a general's stated topic in the OP have any impact on what is considered spam?

>>95922779
It's an OSR, that makes it on-topic in the OSR general.
That shouldn't make you mad. People who get mad at facts are barely human.

>>95922746
>It really doesn't look like that 2e sub-board is acting like a containment board in the slightest capacity.
I thnik this is most likely a lie, but even if it's true it just goes to show that the K&KA guys were right to object in the first place, since the 2e board – which absolutely was started as a containment board – has been allowed to breach containment and infest OSR conversations.

>>95922794
How long's a decade?

>>95922794
>It's an OSR
It's not though, and it never has been and never will be. That's the issue: you just keep flat-out lying (and not answering the question: >>95922575).

>>95922807
>which absolutely was started as a containment board
This is your goalpost shift?
Not only is it not a containment board, it never was one, and there's 2e discussion in every board going as far back as 2002, which is the oldest posts we have on every board. There's even some 2e discussion going on in the 1e board, such as in a 1e thread about psionics and whether 2e actually did them better, with some arguing a slight improvement (and some arguing otherwise. Welcome to matters of personal taste).

At no point is 2e discussion discouraged, 2e threads and posts remain and were never deleted, and while 1e was the more popular edition, 2e was arguably the 2nd most popular game on that forum.

You are objectively wrong, the worst kind of wrong.

>>95922915
Still off-topic here.
Still dogshit.

>>95922927
Are you confused?
This is the OSR General on 4chan. It's not the K&KA forums.
If you don't want to see people discussing an OSR you dislike, you probably should go back to somewhere you can actually enforce your will, instead of having your posts deleted here.

>>95922713
You know, you can scroll up to see the state of the thread as it happened over the course of the day. It shows the date, the time, deleted posts.

>>95922915
>even more lies

>2e threads and posts were never deleted because... deleted posts are still visible!
Are you actually this retarded?

>>95922953
>This is the OSR General on 4chan.
Correct, it's the OSR general on 4chan and only OSR games belong here, i.e. not 2e, for example.

>you probably should go back to somewhere you can actually enforce your will
You're the one who has no power here. Remember when you started a whole-ass alternative general and stopped shitposting this one to death because you unironically thought you'd win people over to your viewpoint and this thread would die or something, but instead it was your general that died despite people here trying to keep it alive, because literally nobody agrees with your retarded takes? Even when you do your best to manipulate things, you're helpless, because you're all alone. and you can't subvert this community.

>>95922791
And now that one is gone. What a microdicked little bitch.

>>95923013
Not that anon, but I unironically miss /todd/. It was generally fairly chill, is slow.

>>95923013
>2e threads and posts were never deleted because... deleted posts are still visible!
Deleted posts wouldn't be visible. The posts we see are those that weren't deleted; ie. posts that were deemed to be fine. Please, don't embarass yourself like this by acting this dumb, because if you're doing it to get pity out of me it's not gonna work.

>You're the one who has no power here.
You're totally, 100% right. I don't have any special powers. I'm not the one who decides what an OSR is or isn't.

And neither are you.

When posting on 4chan, in a general about a topic, I accept that the general will be about that topic. I have to accept people will include things I don't personally agree with or don't like.

You, my fellow powerless anonymous, must accept the same. Here, OSR is gonna be the one that encourages discussion, the one found everywhere else on the internet where people discuss OSR, and not some close-minded one that leads to a dead forum like K&KA.

And quit it with the "you're alone" coping crap already. Your endless coping efforts also are not gonna get you any pity from anyone, only the opposite. You've been arguing with multiple people in this thread alone, so how many dozens have you imagined are your singular boogeyman at this point?

>>95921424
>Despite that, backporting story-free 2e (or later) content to one of the earlier editions is very doable. Monsters/NPC, spells, items, setting material, etc.
A few threads back, one of you retards had a meltdown because I suggested this and asked for advice

I find race as class too limiting for B/X type clones. We use ported classes from other "old school" versions
Would be putting hard limits on certain classes a decent compromise?
>only X and Y can be druid
>dwarves cannot be magic-users or classes that use MU spells

>>95918357
rooms have doors
chambers have archways or tunnels

>>95921424
>The reason 2e gets so heated is that it bears at-a-glance mechanical resemblence to 1e. BUT the big focus on "story" is baked into the rules
There is also a very 3e-like sense of "build" after a few splatbooks.
Porting some ideas is good tho - I prefer 2e demons HDs as an example.

>>95923289
It's an interesting golden cow, because the "limiting" factor makes the races feel weird, which makes them feel special (in a sorta stupid way).

But, like any golden cow, I like watching them get slaughtered and seeing what the entrails spell out. Race as Class is definitely one of those old ideas with obvious problems and even more obvious solutions that make any new game that uses RaC have to either come up with a very good explanation why or I get to call it just a blind imitation.

>>95923320
"Builds" were a thing all the way back in the 70s. People had D&D tournaments that were all about min-maxing their optimized characters and figuring out how to abuse the rules as much as they think they could get away with, rule-lawyering the entire time.

What 3e (and 2e, and even 1e) had were just more options for buildfags to work with. Even OD&D players complained about AD&D 1e for the same reason, with even Gygax complaining about how ruleplayers didn't appreciate the spirit of OD&D and how OD&D remained his favorite game to run.

>>95923161
>Here, OSR is gonna be the one that encourages discussion, the one found everywhere else on the internet where people discuss OSR
Wrong, no matter how hard you baselessly insist on this completely spurious principle. It never has been, and it never will be. This general forms its own distinct community with an established definition of OSR. Don't like it? Start your own thread (lmao).

Here's an interesting fact about race as class that people not very familiar with the LBB might not know.
>race as class was an invention for basic D&D, and not how the original rules did it
>the original rules simply limited dwarves and halflings to being fighters, and elves to choosing to be either a fighter or a magic-user on a per adventure basis
>so race as class, as we know it in B/X, was an invention of Moldvay, though the idea of a fighting mage was invented by Holmes, and it's what we got as the race as class elf in B/X

>>95923460
>Wrong, no matter how hard you baselessly insist on this completely spurious principle.
Lol.
You're the one insisting that we all need to listen to you, and why?
Because you're everyone, and everyone else is just one person.

Shut the fuck up already, you baseless little bitch.

>>95921603
>This is obvious sophistry. First decade of D&D means first decade of D&D, it's not rocket science.
The problem is that 2e's release does not cleanly cleave AD&D's run to fit into a nice 10 years. The last 1e products were "Lords of Darkness" and "Mad Monkey vs the Dragon Claw", both from January 1989 - 2e came out february of 1989.
So from 74-89 you have slightly more than 14 years.

This is further complicated by the fact that around 46 non-advanced (BECMI and RC) products were also produced post-2e, primarily consisting of gazeteers, Hollow World and other accessories, plus a few adventures. The last RC item being in November of 1993: Poor Wizard's Almanac II. The line was then downgraded to a single publication the following year that served as its gravestone: "The Classic Dungeons & Dragons Game" which served a similar intended role as Holmes basic, bookending the whole line as it started.
77-93 is 16 years (Bizarre, honestly - Basic outlasting Advanced??)

Note that this is not speaking to the quality of any of these, purely that that is the raw-data time scale.

As your graphic points out, a strict decade-definition would exclude using Chainmail combat, which nobody would agree is offtopic (although Chainmail-as-wargame would be, as it's not an RPG) as well as about half of the AD&D 1e run, including Castle Caldwell. As well as T1-4 The Temple of Elemental Evil and the further compilation GDQ1-7 Queen of The Spiders.

I'm not advocating for including 2e here, I am advocating for clarity so that people can instead choose to not interact rather than having to decipher what the OP means and then getting mad when they are shouted that they failed the shibboleth. People cannot act like weasely lawyers when rules are clear, rather than the current poorly-written copypasted OP text.

>>95923289
To add to >>95923470
In 0e, the supplement classes are race-locked. It shouldn't be much of an issue, you're just shifting some mechanics "backwards" a bit.

>>95922794
/osrg/ is not "OSR", how often must this be explained?

Cont >>95923511
My source on the dates is this massive table by the way: https://dungeonsdragons.fandom.com/wiki/Raw_table_of_D%26D_products

Note that it's a bit annoying in that it lists the "basic" line as "OD&D" and doesn't delinate the magazines by system, probably just to make sure "game products" are split from non-game novels and comics (listed as - ). But still it was the best chronology I could find.

>>95923243
Anon said that's doable, not on-topic.

>>95923460
The "community" of this general is not some isolated, insular hugbox echochamber. Nor can it be. If you want a private chatroom, 4chan is not the place for it. And, that's even if you were right about what this community was or is about, and you're absolutely wrong about that, no matter how much you try to pretend with that fake-it-till-you-make-it false confidence.
You make loud, completely bullshit claims, and then when you're argued down, you become more and more troll-like when backed into a corner, all the way down to "you need to listen to the silent majority, and I am its mouthpiece!"
I don't have to listen to anyone. I see the OSR general, I will talk about OSRs in it. And, everyone else is going to do the same, no matter how mad you get about that, you powerless little toad.

>>95923289
This is literally how 1e works. The ramifications of such a comromise, positive and negative, have been disputed for decades.

I'm not going to participate in the discussion of what is and isn't OSR, but I do want to point out that after the Blumes took control of TSR, and particularly after they brought in Lorraigne Williams, things changes drastically. The books that came out after this change were of drastically different quality and character.

This is not Gygax worship. Gygax is responsible for the atrocity that is Unearthed Arcana's Cavalier class, the NWP system (which came in either Dungeoneer's Curvival Guide or Outdoor Survival Guide; I can't recall which at the moment), and he had some ideas that were coke-addled fever dreams at best )like the ability generation system for Barbarians and the class idea Mountebank).

Gary's method for generating barbarian stats, for reference, as seen in an issue of Dragon
>Strength: Best 3 of 9D6
>Intelligence: 3D6
>Wisdom: 4D4
>Dexterity: Best 3 of 7D6
>Constitution: Best 3 of 8D6
>Charisma: 3D6

I'll try to find the screens hot of that madness in a little while.

>>95923527
These kinds of arguments will continue to occur as long as the OP copypasta is vague and unclear.
Those unwelcome should see the sign saying as such at the front, and know they're at the wrong place without having to cause a scene by their presence first.

>>95923553
No, I stated it is on-topic.
Imagine liking something like Planescape but loathing the hickmanism of 2e. This would indeed be the place to "rehabilitate it such that it works as a proper gygaxian expansion of the planar cosmology, their workings, and the mechanics of their denizens" or something.

>>95923497
>>95923559
>t. 2efag
It would be easier to believe that you were more than one person if you didn't write so extremely recognizably and default to the same small set of spergy insults whenever (i.e. always) you don't get your way. For my part, i haven't contributed more than 2-3 of the posts on this issue in the thread so I know I speak for the vast majority of thread regulars.

>>95923511
>The problem is that 2e's release does not cleanly cleave AD&D's run to fit into a nice 10 years.
So? What the fuck are you talking about? That's not relevant. The decade limit isn't *supposed* to coincide with the release of 2e. It's supposed to coincide with when Gygax effectively lost control of the company's direction and bad storyfagging modules started to get published.

>>95923559
>when you're argued down
Maybe if this had ever happened you might have had a point, 2etard, but in fact it's you getting argued into oblivion and getting assblasted, every time.

>>95923579
>No, I stated it is on-topic.
Alright, fair enough, but in that case you're flatly wrong. Take that shit somewhere else.

>>95923576
>Dungeoneer's Curvival Guide
I herped so hard I derped. Should say
>Dungeoneer's Survival Guide

>>95923579
>Those unwelcome should see the sign saying as such at the front, and know they're at the wrong place without having to cause a scene by their presence first.
I totally agree with this; the problem is that whenever we've tried to fix the OP to be clearer in the past, it's been immediately j& and replaced with the old one, obviously posted by a janny.

>>95923576
All very true. It's worth nothing, though, that UA was Gary's last-ditch attempt at changing the company's ailing fortunes before they had to sell out; it wasn't a well thought out book. (I agree that practically everything in it is garbo, mind.)

>>95923559
>I don't have to listen to anyone. I see the OSR general, I will talk about OSRs in it.
Okay, and yet you never do, ever? You still haven't answered the question earlier! Or even acknowledged it. Maybe it's time now, huh? >>95922575

>>95922953
IT'S NOT OSR IT'S /osrg/ YOU FUCKING LACKWIT

>>95923619
>The decade limit isn't *supposed* to coincide with the release of 2e. It's supposed to coincide with when Gygax effectively lost control of the company's direction and bad storyfagging modules started to get published.
This isn't a good metric because dragonlance and other storyfag stuff was being published at the tail end of that "first decade" before Gary actually left. And as pointed out - ToEE and other good material also gets excised.
It's a sloppy filter, especially for newbies or old hats coming back after a while (or who find the retardation of OSR stuff elsewhere to be cancer).

A simple rewording to keep the storyfag shit out is what should be done.

>>95923635
>use true Old School principles
>use true Old School mechanics
>no storyfagging, hickmanism or buildfag shit
>but oops you sourced the worldbuilding from the wrong edition, now you have to LEAVE
If I had the insane amount of energy and focus I could build a true Old School "Bakieth" setting with playable living-weapon automatons, psionics, and spurious amounts of rather-useless low-level magic items, focused on delving into ancient titan ruins filled with drow and other nasty shit, on a recently-colonized jungle continent and it would be 100% within the rules AND spirit of /osrg/.

Keeping the mongrel rats out is not contingent on worshipping Gygaxian TSR, the game is the thing.

>>95923576
I don't think Lorraine had much direct influence on the game itself.

She might have issued broad guidelines, but she was more business woman than game designer, and a lot of the 2e changes were just following what was in vogue at the time in the RPG scene and including influences from rising games. Lorraine was more focused on getting her other pet projects like pushing for a Buck Rogers RPG than actually caring about what was happening with the D&D game.

Also, if you want to see Gygax unchained, check out Danjerous Journeys, an absolute trainwreck of a game he made after leaving TSR that was incredibly rule-focused and so miserable that the kindest thing you can say about it is that it's at least not Cyborg Commando.

>>95923710
>This isn't a good metric
Bro, you're shifting goalposts. In your last post everything was all about how it didn't fit with 2e's release, so I pointed out that that's got bothing to do with it. If I point out now that the first decade is 1974-1983 and that that excludes the entire Dragonlance series so you're wrong again (DL1 came out in 1984, look it up), you're just going to shift goalposts again without acknowledging that, aren't you?

>storyfag
Are the retards fighting over this unaware of just how much story was involved in OD&D adventures? Some were straight-line railroads where the only effective options were "follow these rails or die trying."

>>95923677
Your dumb question is not getting an answer because A: not everyone agrees with retarded fucks like you. And B: the there is more than one person who understand 2e is on topic here and we know better than to try speaking for everyone

2e, why are you still here? Why do you insist on being here?
You could've made your own thread weeks, months ago. Instead you insist on getting into this argument every thread.

Why can't you just accept you're consistently unwelcome and move on?

>>95923812
>A: not everyone agrees with retarded fucks like you. And B: the there is more than one person who understand 2e is on topic here and we know better than to try speaking for everyone
If it's such a dumb question it should be easy to answer right? Or are you pulling that oldest and faggiest of 'I don't have to answer to you, I'm right' cards.
A: I agree with him, not because I dislike 2e, but because you're a cunt.
B: Great then you can fuck off together and go make your own soggy biscuit thread right?

>>95923812
>there is more than one person
No there isn't! But even if there were, you could all answer, or even one of you could attempt it, which none of you ever do.

>2e is on topic here
I'm sorry, no, that's wrong. 2e is not on topic here. Start a 2e thread if you wish to discuss it – or maybe you could try amusing yourself by breaking into the 3e general instead!

>>95923812
Hold on, there's still a chance the imaginary boogeyman he's adressing will show up and answer the question directed at him.

That's kind of the problem with this guy. He'll tag a post, then start talking to someone completely different and entirely in his own head, and then wonder why he's not getting any replies.

>>95923735
Also when Lorraine was running things a bunch of setting people talk about even now came out. Stuff like Dark Sun, Planescape, and Spelljammer.

>>95923782
>OD&D adventures
Lmao, which ones would that be? G1? Maybe? Yeah, that's such a railroad, kek

>>95923871
Please discuss 2e-era settings elsewhere. As you say, many of these are still popular and can easily sustain a thread of their own.

>>95923843
>>95923845
Sorry to hear that you having brain damage stops you from understanding post.

>>95923735
>I don't think Lorraine had much direct influence on the game itself.
She was directly responsible for the "Complete Book of <insert thing here>" series, which is how 2e got the crazy splatbook slop late in its life cycle. She did that because the way the Random House deal worked meant Random House pre-paid royalties to TSR for books it published for a certain minimum run of copies, and TSR was cash-strapped (lawsuits, man).

>check out Danjerous Journeys
No thanks. I like the games this thread is about.

>>95923746
It's a clumsy way to keep storyfag shit out, that has been the point the whole time. It's using a chainsaw to try to carve a turkey.

Are you willing to remove ToEE in your crusade to purge the storyfag shit? I don't know of many people who would find that sane.

>>95923782
All things can be dealt with in good time. But the foundational round rules must be established first else there's no common ground to argue from and it's like pissing into a canyon across from each other.

>>95923812
There was a satisfactory answer in a prior thread. It was because 2e's core rules actively discourage the sorts of gameplay style that OSR is aiming for, instead shuffling those elements into being "optional" or requiring hacking them in to work.
The smoking gun is that gold-as-XP is listed as optional while story milestone XP isn't. This has a profound effect on player and DM motivation, but more importantly shows the design intent of the authors. The later supplementary books expand on the negative elements, but they're immaterial when considering the base game (as any system can and does have swathes of official garbage made for it.)

The only way endorsement of something that is "decidedly 2e" is ever on topic is in the context of hacking apart content made FOR 2e (not the 2e rules themselves), gutting it, and rebuilding into proper OSR supplementary material.

>>95923887
>no arguments
>reverts to his usual 1d3 insult table

>>95923871
Those were pretty much touching on what was popular in games and media at the time. Ravenloft in particular rode the early 90's vampire wave and rode it hard.

>>95923885
You are not the boss of the thread or /tg/, cockbreath.

>>95923887
>Sorry to hear that you having brain damage stops you from understanding post.
No, we understand what you said.
We just think you're more full of shit than a Hillbilly shitter hole and twice as foul.

>>95923893
>Are you willing to remove ToEE in your crusade to purge the storyfag shit? I don't know of many people who would find that sane.
Absolutely, it's a pile of Mentzer shit. Now if you mean T1 Village of Hommlet, that came out in 1979 IIRC and is absolutely included. And it's notably the only good part of the larger Temple series.

>>95923896
Your retarded reeeing about a boogeyman is not an argument.
>>95923899
Nice projection, moron.

>>95923898
No, as you can see I'm simply articulating an established and long-standing consensus. You're the one trying to be the boss of the thread and going against it.

>>95923889
Every edition got "slop" later in its life cycle. Don't forget even OD&D had Basic made to try and cut down on the, ahem, "slop", and even Gygax late in his life said that OD&D was in its best form as "three-pamphlet OD&D."

>>95923893
You can use 2e stuff with other OSR things with little to no change.

>>95911468 (OP)
Think we can change the OP to include the following:
>Welcome to the Old School Renaissance General, the thread still dedicated to the first decade of TSR-era D&D, derived systems, and compatible content. If you want to talk about 2e, fuck off you buck toothed, dog raping troglodyte.

I think it'd really get across the actual intent of the thread going forward and make it clear what is and isn't allowed.

>>95923920
>more of that fake-it-till-you-make-it bravado
Wait, no, that's just you leaking pure bullshit because you can't argue in any way except praying people believe you speak for everyone here despite all the evidence to the contrary.

>>95923933
>Don't forget even OD&D had Basic made to try and cut down on the, ahem, "slop"
This is untrue. Basic was made to make learning the game an easier task. Initially, the Holmes basic manuscript told players to go to OD&D when they needed rules for higher levels. However, by the time it was actually ready for final typesetting, AD&D's PHB was out, so the manuscript was changed to tell players to go to AD&D instead.

>>95923920
Consensus implies everyone agrees with your dumb posts and clearly that not true.

>>95923935
That sounds like it's derivative AND compatible. Let me check the OP, pretend it actually matters, and see if that makes it on-topic.

>>95923949
>all the evidence to the contrary.
Provide the fucking evidence then.
Not from some other site or definitions, but from this one. The archives are right there you turd.

Show us that 2e has always been allowed.

>>95923953
>Consensus implies everyone agrees
Not that anon, but that's not what consensus means. Consensus means the vast majority agree. There are always outliers, like the scientists that disagree with the consensus on climate change and evolution.

>>95923953
I don't even think a majority, let alone everyone, agrees with him.

>>95923971
Not even the majority agrees with him.

>>95923978
<citation please>

>>95923933
>even Gygax late in his life said that OD&D was in its best form as "three-pamphlet OD&D."
Preaching to the choir here, friend. LBBfag for life.

>>95923935
>You can use 2e stuff with other OSR things with little to no change.
This is wholly irrelevant. 2e remains outside of this thread's topic. Compatibility is necessary, but not sufficient.

Look can you two just agree to meet up somewhere and knife-fight to the death already?
I'll admit, I rather Anti-2E wins because that way we won't just move to 'So ACKS is shit huh?' in the aftermath.
But I'll take anyone winning over a bitchy stalemate at this point.

>>95923960
Didn't you already do this in a previous thread? Not too long ago even? Had posts shown to you from the archive and everything?

Are you stuck in a loop?

If someone actually makes the effort to dig those posts up again, will you concede? Can I get a written admission from you that will happen, considering you didn't concede last time?

>>95923949
>2efag has his astroturfing attempts pointed out to him in thread after thread after thread
>some inkling of the truth of this finally penetrates his massively thick skull
>immediately adopts usual "no u" technique
kek

>>95923995
You mean the threads I looked up in the archives and presented as evidence only for someone to point out I'd read them wrong.

The ones that, again, you didn't do shit to go out or put any effort into because I'm the one that did all the work and found your points to be bullshit based on.

Whoops, funny how you fucked yourself with that argument, retard.

>>95924014
No, that doesn't sound right, and sounds like you're going to go on a bitch fit bender if someone does dig up posts.

But, let's give it another go. Will you concede?

>>95924014
lmao
he can't help but own himself over and over, it's like the Sideshow Bob clip of walking into rakes
(I actually agree with >>95923990 that this is getting tiresome but if we have to put up with this fag at least it's good that he's a comical wreck)

>>95924027
>sounds like you're going to go on a bitch fit bender if someone does dig up posts.
Be my guest.

>>95923983
Again you are not the boss here. Compatibility makes 2e OSR.

>>95924031
Will you concede was the question.

>>95924063
If the evidence is as airtight as you're claiming? Yes. I will.

And if it isn't and you are full of shit, will you go back and look for proper evidence or concede that no, 2e doesn't belong here?

>>95923576
>Gygax is responsible for the atrocity that is Unearthed Arcana's Cavalier class, the NWP system (which came in either Dungeoneer's Curvival Guide or Outdoor Survival Guide; I can't recall which at the moment)
You're right about UA, but wrong about DSG and WSG: Those books are not by Gygax, they were published after Gygax left TSR, and Gygax had no creative involvement in them.

Non-Weapon Proficiencies were, however, introduced in Oriental Adventures, which is by Gygax. So yeah, he's responsible for that.

>>95923948
We tried to just write "2e is off-topic" at one point, and the the thread was deleted instantly.

>>95924085
>You're right about UA, but wrong about DSG and WSG: Those books are not by Gygax, they were published after Gygax left TSR, and Gygax had no creative involvement in them.
>Non-Weapon Proficiencies were, however, introduced in Oriental Adventures, which is by Gygax. So yeah, he's responsible for that.

Thank you for the corrections.

>>95924038
>Compatibility makes 2e OSR.
Nope, wrong. Compatibility isn't sufficient. And just repeating yourself won't make 2e on-topic.

>>95924137
>t. someone wrong and dumb.

>>95924085
>2e is off-topic
At this point I almost suspect that this exact phrase has some sort of flag on it, because I've noticed that when I write the same thing in different words, it's either slower to get deleted or doesn't get deleted at all.

that said, it's fully true of course. 2e IS off-topic in /osrg/.

>>95924144
>1d3 insult table: 2
You gotta wonder if this guy's underage on top of everything.

>>95924038
>>95924137
I'll just leave this here.

>>95924082
>He doesn't agree the same
You fucking coward.

>>95924157
Yes, everyone is wondering that about you. Someone who is not a child would not lose his shit because someone made a post like >>95923871

Here’s an interesting snapshot from 2019
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/66285561/#66295822
We’ve got not just a 2e mention, we’ve also got a sarcastic “Grr I’m mad about 2e!” post, followed by more 2e mentions/discussion without any controversy, followed by a “2e is best” post that apparently was immediately understood as something to provoke autists, followed by someone asking to choose between OSRIC and 2e for him and got a reasoned reply without much controversy.
All in all, seems like people were aware of 2e irking autists, but not enough to stop people from discussing it freely.

>>95924189
I notice you still haven't replied on the 'Are you, in turn, going to quit the bullshit if you are wrong' part of the question.
Are you going to answer that?

>>95924166
Of course he wont agree to fuck off if 2e doesn't belong here, because he knows as well as you do what he'll find.

Off the top of my head:
>https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/83866686/
(And note that in this thread you can *clearly see* that it's the same speg losing his mind then that's shitposting in this thread now)

>>95923935
>You can use 2e stuff with other OSR things with little to no change.
Some stuff, like monsters, are mostly copy-pasted with subtle wording changes that affect the tone, like how a Decaton's spell-like powers "affect all modrons whether the decaton recognizes the rank or not." in 2e whereas nothing of the sort is stated in 1e.

Others, like Kobolds, are also very much statistically similar, but have major alterations that make 1e vs 2e kobolds a completely different sort of beast and only superficially similar.
In 2e their eyes "glow in the dark" whereas in 1e they're just red, and there's all kinds of additional rules making them FAR more cowardly, makes them "never" take gnomes as prisoners nor eats them, reduces the amount of young from 10% of the total to 10% of the males, and adds shamans.
They are also changed from
>Kobolds hate most other life, delighting in killing and torture.
to
>Kobolds are distrustful of strangers.
and are indicated to carry their victims back to use as food or slaves.
It also makes an excuse for them, implying they're only so cruel because they're "easy prey."

The whole tone is completely altered because of the satanic panic, marketing more towards children and general shift in OVERALL tone - as others indicated. It's a pain in the ass and still requires modification in ways that take the most effort (writing). And this is for things that are just straight ports, the stuff that is 2e-original requires a lot of adjustment to be in-line.

It's a mess.

>>95924189
Things changed because starting around 2019 the wider OSR was made aware of the kinds of assholes in the "artpunk" segment of it, the types of BPD/narcissist "mongrel" group retards. That type of person are presumably why the reddit is so shit (beyond just being "it's reddit.") The restriction on keeping things from going too crazy away from old D&D is a form of repellent, to keep them from shitting here and calling it cuisine or spreading witch hunts and rumors.

>>95924189
Actually, the more I dig, the more I'm wondering why specific post links are even needed.

2019 seems to have sporadic 2e discussion without any real controversy, just casual mentions. It's not the most popular edition, but it's mentioned in nearly every thread at least once, and even the "2e is best. Period" turned out not to be some prolific spammer, but just ten posts and none of them sparked any significant controversy, with some people just going "okay, that's nice."

I'm going to start moving forward in time, largely because I'm curious when any anti-2e trolls arrived and how it got to a point where the troll in this thread managed to get so confident that the OSRG always hated 2e when it's so completely untrue.

>>95924189
>2e is mentioned in passing
You stupid fucking asshole, 3.5 is mentioned in passing in that thread as well.
Is 3.5 OSR as well?
3e is mentioned more often than 2e in the thread you posted.
Are you actually retarded?

>>95924231
There nothing stopping a DM from using both (or something else) kinds of Kobolds. Not all tribes of Kobolds is going to act the same. The satanic panic was gong to fuck up D&D no matter the edition as it was a huge deal back then.

>>95924270
It's mentioned, and then further discussed, and even optioned as a choice next to OSRIC.

I guess any hope of you conceding was fool hardy because of course you'd only see what you wanted to see, even to the point of not finishing reading a full post.

>>95924290
I'm reading the rest of the thread right now you 'UwU, pwoow me ;_;'ing little prostate puncher.
Calm your micropenis.

>>95924304
You're wasting your time, that knob goblin still hasn't agreed to leave permanently if he's proven wrong, so the whole thing is inherently asymmetric. Stop participating until he commits to fucking off, it's just taking bait until then.

>>95924304
Needed to get a dumb shitpost in first, eh?

>>95924321
By the way, are you going to agree to fuck off if I do find it wanting (And you can't find further evidence mind you, which is still a better deal than you've offered)?
Or don't you have any sense of faith in your position?

Silly question but do you let the Arcane/Divine Magic User know which spell a scroll contains or do they also need to let it identify first?

>>95924277
>There nothing stopping a DM from using both (or something else) kinds of Kobolds.
Yes yes obviously, but the writing is what paints the default foundation. If you are talking about 2e kobolds then it is assumed by people who you are speaking to that you are talking about them from the written baseline. Else there is no need to even mention 2e at all in a thread, just ask for input or storytime about how you're doing your kobolds. Don't act on your humiliation fetish, this is a blue board.

Anyway, it also matters a lot of 2e shit is really just copy-pasted 1e material but toned down to be more safe/goofy. It's the equivalent of mcdonalds changing from using tallow to sneed oils (corporate thinking). You might as well just use the 1e info since 99% of the time it's better AND easier to read due to being more concise.

Hence the exception being for CONVERTING 2e-original (or later) stuff to 1e/B-editions/0e/retroclones/etc. As there is no baseline prior reference, consulting with other people - ESPECIALLY those who are as suffused in the pre-2e-and-related games as this thread - becomes a useful way to do it so it PROPERLY fits.

>>95924346
Depends if the player has big tits or not.

>>95924346
Traditionally Read Magic is used for this purpose. You also need to cast Read Magic to *cast* from a scroll.

>>95924351
>Anyway, it also matters a lot of 2e shit is really just copy-pasted 1e material but toned down to be more safe/goofy.

Weird, my crawl around 2019 OSRG had people explaining 2e as being more "streamlined". I guess people can spin things in one way or another.

>>95924351
My point is your durr durr kobolds derp is not really a issue.

>>95924351
Yes, well stated, Anon. This whole disingenuous "but you CAN use muh 2e!" line of argumentation completely skips over the fact that there's never any reason to.

>>95924385
The disingenous part is you thinking your opinion on what is the superior edition is anything other than an opinion.

>>95924325
Still waiting for you to reciprocate that written admission that you were so cockthirsty for.

'effro on the 'log

>>95924456
Didn't you already get proven wrong?

>>95924487
You won't have any problem living by the golden rule then will you?

>>95924373
>Weird, my crawl around 2019 OSRG had people explaining 2e as being more "streamlined". I guess people can spin things in one way or another
In some ways it is. THAC0 is often cited as "easier" for some people compared to looking up attack tables (really it's a sidegrade, it's only "easier" due to idiots being disorganized and not keeping sheets at hand, it's not the mechanic itself... many found it harder).
But the monster entries and other garbage storyfag shit expanded to fill that empty space, because of a perverse incentive cascade of "gotta sell books" and "get paid-per-word."
The kobold entry is several times the size of 1e, the only improvement is the stat block's colorized rows. It uses in-text stats for the higher ranking ones instead of the elegant 1e solution of just referring to other monsters.
The modron stats are all in one place with the specific writups being spread across several pages. compare that to 1e that has a blurb and then each is self-contained, stats and text all neatly together.

The way 1e stuff is arranged you could legitimately photocopy most monsters, cut them out and then just stick them onto appropriately sized cardstock (or print them on cardstock directly). And arrange them in your notes nice and easy. The big binder and sheets for 2e's monsters is neat but anyone who has used a binder knows the wear-and-tear and reference issues with that. (Hint: office supply stores sell hole reinforcement stickers for a reason, and TSR would have interest in your rebuying the sheets you already bought.)

>>95924385
The core books are genuinely nice to hold and look through. I love the 3-column format and a good amount of the artwork is really inspiring (in particular "Dragonslayers and Proud of It" is quite a masterful "introduction to RPGs" piece of art, see this explanation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfNoPYChIqk ).

It's just a shame that the actual, you know. Rule-part of "rulebook" sucks when the "book" part is nice.

>>95924508
You've already been proven wrong, why are you bothering to ask about what would happen if you could have been right?
I have no idea what is wrong with you, but your brain seems completely broken.

>>95924534
Humour me.

Also to the next thread maker:
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/91106200/#91106200
OP in this one didn't get deleted and explicitly states AD&D onwards is off topic to remove the wiggle room bullshit.

Hope that helps.

>>95924562
>thread is filled with people telling you you're a retarded fuckhead
Man that's a bad look for you.

>>95924562
You helped no one.

>>95924290
ntayrt but as pointed out here >>95924231
and from earlier threads, it's because limiting the scope of /osrg/ a bit more strictly is useful to keep the human rats out. It's imperfect as-is but refining it should hopefully refocus the generals again and away from the shitflinging.

this isn't something that's obvious or recorded anywhere, it's more of a cultural immune-response that is validated via it pissing off the correct people

>>95924597
Please, sincerely, fuck off with your cope.
You are human rat.

>>95924370
You're right, thanks!
How about the Divine Magic User, it's written in Common so he (and possibly everyone capable of reading) knows what the scroll does right away?

>>95924597
What is wrong with you.

We have proof of old OSRG being fine with 2e discussion, so that sinks that retarded "OSRG isn't OSR!" line.
We've got 2e being derived and compatible with 1e, sinking the "The OP text is my personal bible!" line.
We've got almost the entire world agreeing it's OSR. We've got multiple people here even willing to argue with your dumb ass here that it is.
Now it's "we need to keep 2e out because I just don't like people who like 2e"?

Jesus fucking christ.

Well I guess at the very least this level of shamelessness at least has a hint of honesty in it.

>>95924666
>once again tries to pretend he isn't a lone sperg who's been shitting up the general against the wishes of literally everyone else in it since at least 2022 as per >>95924225
Nice try, Satan! But you failed again.

>>95924666
>We have proof of old OSRG being fine with 2e discussion, so that sinks that retarded "OSRG isn't OSR!" line.
That's a lie.

>We've got 2e being derived and compatible with 1e, sinking the "The OP text is my personal bible!" line.
Incorrect on every level, this is just a fantasy you made up in your head! But in any case, if you're fine with it and won't report it to the jannies, we can state explicitly in the next OP that 2e is offtopic and it won't be a problem, right?

>We've got almost the entire world agreeing it's OSR.
Nope. Nobody who matters uses your definition, it's literally only the plebbit and one or two shitty discords, none of which are important.

>We've got multiple people here even willing to argue with your dumb ass here that it is.
Lmao no. It's blatantly just you, trying to astroturf but failing.

>Now it's "we need to keep 2e out because I just don't like people who like 2e"?
No, 2e should be kept out because it's never been on topic in this general, it isn't now, and it never will be. The fact that it makes you mad is just a bonus.

In the current campaign I've been playing in for the last two months, both my prior characters were erased immediately during their first encounters by enemies that rolled their exact max HP in damage.

My current character has managed to see combat and survive today. Things are finally turning around (until next session)

>>95924742
That's genuinely nice.

>>95924637
Yes, Cleric scrolls ("divine magic-user" is not a term used in OSR-era D&D) are written in Common, but can't be used by non-Clerics. Presumably that means anyone can identify them on reading, yes.

For example, Moldvay Basic, page 49:
>Clerical scrolls are written in a common tongue, but only clerics have the spiritual contacts necessary to make the spell work.

>>95924666
I am TAYRT
>We have proof of old OSRG being fine with 2e discussion
Yes the point is it changed. I had asked much more politely and non-argumentatively before as to why, and the answer satisfied me. It should also satisfy you.
>We've got 2e being derived and compatible with 1e
Only in the broad strokes, again the XP rules significantly alters the way the game works.
>the "The OP text is my personal bible!" line
It simply sets the standard for the thread discussion, but it is badly worded and that line is causing confusion.
>We've got almost the entire world agreeing it's OSR
Not an argument, never has been one.
>Now it's "we need to keep 2e out because I just don't like people who like 2e"?
This has always been why. 2e is moreso what you see immediately across the line. What you are ignoring is how letting 2e in also opens the door to other undesirable things and people.

To sum it up, culturally (not speaking of game mechanics here) /osrg/ is closer in viewpoint to TheRPGSite than it is to r/OSR or that one big "OSR Discord". So to keep such individuals from establishing a "home" here, it's restricted down such that they find the environment hostile to their tastes in games, not just their attitude.

How else would you suggest we do it? You can propose a solution if you like.

>>95924795
>letting 2e in also opens the door to other undesirable things and people.
2e being a dogshit bowdlerised knock-off for the storygaming special education kids of Satanic Panic moms is already reason enough to exclude it. No need for extra reasons.

2e continues to be off-topic in this general, a position we've continually articulated for literally years. Thank you for your consideration.

Does anybody have experience about what happens when you want to start a new group but you don't want to include that one friend, without actually losing him as a friend?

>>95925387
If the person is a true friend be up front with them about why you don’t want to include them. Maybe you can work out a solution, maybe you can’t. If the friendship it’s important to them as well, they will get over it. Especially if you have another common bond you two can do together instead of TTRPGs

>>95924795
You are a piece of shit.

I want you to understand you do not deserve a measured reply, only insults, because your post is nothing but an insult to all of us. We are not as stupid as you imagine us.

Piece of shit that you are, you admit that this thread was changed. Forcibly, and not by intelligent arguments, but by harassment and trying to beat down dissent by pure autism. Pretending you have any arguments at all is just more of your hope that you can simply tire everyone out, flitting from one bad faith argument as soon as the last one collapses.

Fuck you. You are just trying to be a gatekeeper, by self-admission, when you are exactly the sort of shit we would need to keep out. You do not respect this site, this board, or this general. You do not respect us. You are perfectly happy to simply try to be more petty and pathetic than anyone else, believing you care more about being a piece of shit than anyone could care in wanting you to stop.

You're probably right. No one can really muster that much energy to care about you. In the grand scheme of things, you've chosen something pretty minor to be the worst poster on this site about, and it's hard for anyone to match your autism. Even the mods are probably just tired of dealing with you.

What you're wrong about is everything else though. Especially your belief that people will stop discussing something in the general it belongs in just because you plan on being the dumbest asshole you can be to them.

My advice is simple. My solution is simple. Let people enjoy the freedom you abuse; let them discuss what they want, as they let you discuss what you want in turn.

It's basic respect, you retarded shit.

>>95926044
>the mask slips
The amount of rage you express in response to learning that everyone knows what you are, is so sweet.

https://scholomance.substack.com/p/mongrel-banquet-club-the-harassment

>>95926105
You have a weird habit of making highly tone deaf and deeply ironic posts.

I just laid you out as petty autist who's abandonned any pretense of logic and depends entirely on simply caring more about this than anyone else possibly could, and your link is about a shadow cabal of leftists attacking right-wing OSR creators.

I knew I was right, but I didn't realize that the OSR was a political matter for you and you imagine you're fighting against a cabal when you shitpost. I mistakenly gave you much more respect than you deserve.

>>95926180
Oh no, you misunderstand. I simply explained why the general became more restrictive. It's not like I control anything individually. I'm laughing at how you sperged the fuck out over simply being told that the kinds of people who want to fuse OSR with storyshit also tend to be the kinds of crazies who destroy hobby spaces by attacking the people who actually make stuff over petty slights and vibes.

If you can't understand that keeping a more narrow focus on the general helps to serve the dual purpose of
>maintain a focus in terms of the game styles discussed
AND
>keeps out the kinds of crazies who use any means possible to try to destroy people they don't like, including making shit up

Then you are beyond hope and you waste your own precious life here. Given the average age of an OSR player, you really should be budgeting better.

>>95926237
tl;dr
Knowing now what kind of autism you have, the only solution is the obvious one.

Discuss what we want, ignore shitposts, let the mods handle the super autists.

>>95926245
That has always been the case, yes. You are free to not throw a shitfit and simply ignore if people tell you to leave if you want to yap about things that aren't pertinent to the general (and let the jannies and mods handle such posts), and you should ignore if others discuss games that you think are by bad people despite them being relevant to the thread in both mechanics and spirit.

>>95926044
>all of us
>We are not as stupid as you imagine us.
Kek, there is literally just one of you and you are, if possible, even stupider than we can imagine.

>>95924949
So now even criticising second edition is ban-worthy?

>>95926255
>let the jannies and mods handle such posts
The mods = (You), obvious mod sockpuppet. There's only you: Trolling, jannying, modding, and banning everybody who criticises 2e or says anything positive about ACKS.

>>95926945
No-no, you don't understand, you posting disapproved opinions means that you stating them is trolling.
Him openly trolling while holding approved opinions means he's just posting.

I'd like 10 minutes alone with our mods and a bag of power tools.
I wouldn't even need a plug socket.

>>95927046
Let's be real, it's not "the mods". It's one guy. Most likely nobody else has any idea what he's doing ITT.

>>95927089
Agreed.
Don't they have an IRC where people can lodge complaints? I doubt they'd listen but if he really is a rouge autist then it might at least get him a slap on the wrist.

>>95927099
I wouldn't know, but I encourage you to try it if you think we could get rid of the 2efag that way.

NEW THREAD

>>95927152
>>95927152
>>95927152

Be steadfast, friends.

>>95927183
Why was the new thread deleted?
>>95927152

>>95927551
Yeah, weird behavior. I don't get it either. There wasn't even anything offensive in it.

>>95927551
>>95927615
I deleted it using my mind powers (Appendix one PHB). There was not enough Gygax worship for my taste.

>>95927183
>>95927551
"And you were moved to do this by pride and by hate. Is it any wonder the result was ruin?"
-Lord Gensher,
A Wizard of Earthsea,
by Ursula K. Le Guin

>>95927727
>starting a new /osrg/ thread is pride and hate

How do you populate your dungeons?

>>95927788
Flip through the Monstrous Manual, see if any monster sparks my fancy.
When I'm feeling lazy I just open up donjon and do some random generation.

NEW NEW THREAD

>>95927824
>>95927824
>>95927824

Ride now!

>>95927822
>Monstrous Manual
Dogshit

>>95927844
The art is fantastic.

>>95927822
Off-topic. Please don't drag it into the new thread.

What happened to the new thread?

>Janny is now deleting any attempt to make a new thread
Assuming no mod steps in to curb his tantrum; lads, it's been a pleasure shitposting with you and we'll see each other again after he 41%s himself
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RcVzevWX4U

What happened to the new thread?

There was a new thread, where did it go ?

New thread:

>>95928841
>>95928841
>>95928841

>>95928827
Janny is throwing the biggest wobbly yet.

So what's the verdict on a new OP for the next thread?

Anyone have anything drafted or should I type something up?

Hopefully this will at least convince Anon who thought he could fix the general's issues by rewriting the OP how of-base he is.

Also, 2e is off-topic in /osrg/.

Dear Janny.
This is not your thread, this is not your board, you are not a bonsai gardener, you are a cog.
Stop being retarded.

>>95928770
Sorry to have to reply to you in this awkward way, but 2e is indeed off-topic in the OSR thread, since it isn't an OSR game. You're going to have to start your own thread if you want to talk about it.

>>95928878
I've got something.

Ridiculous, really
I just wanted to know where the new thread went

>>95928878
>>95928921
There's one in the archive now, should be usable.
>>95928890
Yes, I tried making an OP with the new format. If nothing else it placed it in a spot people can easily reference.

Additionally, given that it was deleted while this one was on page 10, this kerfuffle has revealed how badly out of line this is. Definite proof can now be brought and the problem escalated.

Also, in response to this: >>95928640
In case you're planning to use this (which is pointless) you should switch "mid-80s" for "early 80s" since that's where the cutoff actually is. The mid-80s phrasing will lead to a bunch of troll sperging about Dragonlance, I guarantee it.

>>95928925
>>95928925
>>95928925

>>95928927
>Definite proof can now be brought and the problem escalated.
By that I mean, brought to the 4chan IRC on Rizon as outlined in the rules here:
https://www.4chan.org/faq#banappeal
Note that you can't post there anonymously, you have to register your nick with an email address. But it's the only way to elevate this.

>>95928946
>removed the noob guide
>didn't use the new format
Nice try.

>>95928946
Shit yourself to death, janny.

>>95928947
>>95928947
>>95928947

>>95928960
Oh whoops, >>95928946 beat me to it. I'll try to delete my thread.

>>95928955
>Definite proof can now be brought and the problem escalated.
>By that I mean, brought to the 4chan IRC on Rizon as outlined in the rules here:
You do that and tell us what happens. Don't forget to screencap the response you get.

>>95928946
Sage goes in all fields

Is the gnome race as class acceptable or should only be dwarf and elf?

>>95929169
Some OSR systems have the gnome as a sort of thief-illusionist which frankly fits quite well