how much would james charge for this box today?

>>95911639 (OP)
Too much

>>95911639 (OP)
about tree fiddy

I actually wonder how cheaply I could make a whole company of Space Marines.

At bring and buy sales you can often find old Marines, especially monopose ones, for literal pennies each

>>95911639 (OP)
106 marines + 9 vehicles
Leviathan has 23 marines + 1 vehicle
If we assume the Tyranids are half the value, then it would be fair to assume it would be double Leviathan, so $900 here

>>95911719
Plus tip.

>>95911639 (OP)
Tactical Squad = $60 for 10 = $636 for 106
Rhine = $60 for 1 = $540 for 9
Total assuming no discount = $1176
Maybe with a 15% discount they'd make it $999.99

>>95911719
>>95911837
I still can't believe you hammerfags actually pay this much money for plastic thay cost the company .05¢ to make. Do you never feel embarrassed for getting ripped off so hard?

>>95911733
Britbong's don't practice circumcision.

>>95911858
GW's profit margin is something like 30%

>>95911858
The cost of plastic models isn't in the cost of the plastic but GW do sell 20 year old models for full price lmao

>>95911858
It's cheaper than my other hobbies.
Only spend a couple of thousand a year on Warhammer.

>>95911639 (OP)
Pricing aside, would people really want that many marines or was it meant for players who wanted to build several parallel armies?

>>95912233
It was basically a novelty box for the first release of Apocalypse in 4th edition. They also did a 10 Leman Russ Armoured Company box

>>95912233
Yes. It gives you variety so you can play with a variety of lists rather than just but a single list and never try any variations.
I had success in 3rd ed playing just heavy tactical lists

>>95912121
>It's cheaper than my other hobbies.
Luxury cars? Real estate investments? Hookers and cocaine ....

>>95912276
Equipment for sporting or outdoor activities for example can cost more than buying a 40k army each year.

>>95911691
A whole company? So 100 marines? You can find old and/or broken tacticals on ebay for 1€ each, so with a bit of work and fixing, and some extra bucks for specalists in mind i'd say for 120-150 you can get it done. Probably less if you find some really good deals or take the effort onto you to trade with locals etc.

>>95912289

To be fair I already have enough regular marines, it's the Assault Marines. GW stopped selling the sprue with 5 jump packs quietly last year.

>>95912276
Get in contact with the real world Anon. Interact with adults and see what they do for fun.
>inb4 sitting on the couch, drinking beer

Even something like fishing can get quite expensive too.

>>95912295
Same applies i guess, you can find them plentiful on ebay, but maybe not as low as 1€/marine, but you only need 1-2 squads of them anyway.
Overall, everything thats "firstborn" is quite affordable.

>>95912276
Cars in general. A set of tyres is an entire army and you will demolish a set during a track day.
Travelling isn't cheap, even doing a month in SEA Asia is a few thousand.

Investments aren't hobbies, they're for financial well being, but yes, I invest more than I spend on Warhammer

>>95911858
warhammer ain't even the most expensive model hobby
those trains fuckers put us to shame

>>95912745
Most people complaining about Warhammer price are underage.
It is an "expensive" hobby but it isn't an expensive hobby. It is expensive by /tg/ hobby standards, but other than TCGs, minigames are the only pricy hobby in the sphere.

>ummm its not that expensive
Lol. Kek. Lmao. Paypigs are delusional.

>>95912914
I don't play Warhammer but okay underage b&

>>95912302
Funny you mention beer, I've known a lot of people who would happily throw £100+ at a single night out down the pub/bar/club/etc. multiple times a month.

>>95912903
Thing is TCGs are basically just expensive, meta decks can cost as much as a whole 2000 point army and individual cards can be worth even more. Nevermind the fact that warhammer fags are more than willing to play against people with 3rd party models or even make (pirate) their own, magic fags are much more against you printing out your own cards.

>>95912276
>luxury cars

Literally any car that functions will cost more than the a warhammer army. A good car will cost as more than even a sizeable collection of warhammer armies. That's not even considering costs fro maintenence, insurance, registration, gas, etc.

>>95912276
Basically any hobby that isn't essentially free cost about as much as warhammer does.

>>95912903
Price per model is moderately higher than other producers, but you need SO MANY for a game of 40k that it gets stupid fast. You can play many skirmish games for <$100 whereas you’re stuck in Kill Team at that price point for 40k.

>>95914475
Pretty much this. I'm not into cars, and i drive a somewhat decent KIA, and it did cost me 30k. It was one year old already when i bought it, so not even new. Replacing brakes, new tires etc whenever needed is easily another 1k.
>maintenence, insurance, registration, gas, etc.
It adds up, and for sure, some cars are more expensive than others.
But it really boils down to this:
>>95912903
>Most people complaining about Warhammer price are underage.

If you sit in your moms basement, with her providing dinner and paying all the bills, sure thing a box of 5 terminators for $60 seems expensive. But it really isn't compared to other stuff adults usually deal with, be it for fun or not.
I used to play paintball for quite some time when i was younger. I probably spend as much for fucking paint as i did for warhammer. And those warhammer minis are still here, those little balls of paint i was firing around in full auto are just gone.

>>95912903
>Most people complaining about Warhammer price are underage.
On what planet? I can't say I spend much time complaining because I'm not going to waste my breath, but I'm old enough to remember being able to pick up what they're now selling for £30+ for less than £6, and most of the kits they sell don't come with a huge surplus of multipart bits for converting with anymore.

>>95911858
>>95911858
Do you not feel embarrassed speaking this nonsense with zero understanding of manufacturing economics?

>>95914480
The joke amongst GW store staff is that thanks to the employee discount, tabletop is the only hobby they can afford.

>>95914571
Paying 30K for a car is stupid 10K max for something that gets the job done and is under 10 years old.

>>95911691
1 28mm mini should be about 1.5ml of resin with supports.
150ml of resin should set you back about 7,2€

>>95914973
>10K max for something that gets the job done and is under 10 years old.

Which is still at least 3-5x more than the warhammer would spend on several armies, books, paint, etc.. And that's just the upfront cost of the car.

>>95915052
+ printer
+ printing failures as you get used to using a the printer properly
+ a well ventilated room
+ a lot of time depending on the size of the printer

>>95911639 (OP)
How much was it originally?

>>95912276
I used to fuck a lot of hookers and actually stopped because of Warhammer. Everytime I'd get an urge to go down to Mexico and get a hooker (I live by the border) I'd remind myself that I'd be spending about $160 to $180 (That's including the ride to and from, a few drinks, the girl and maybe a taco or two afterwards). That's the same price as a boxed set. The hooker would provide me, max 40mins of entertainment vs a boxed set which could give me something to work on for 20+ hrs. One would become a memory as soon as it was over and the other would be something I could play with and admire for years to come. Also there's less chance of getting herpes from Warhammer.

>>95915412
if you're willing to spend hundreds on warhammer the cost in time and money of a printer makes economic sense. The initial investment is offset by an extremely low "operating" cost (compared to buying minis and other stuff you want to print).
Getting it dialed in shouldn't be more than a few days of watching youtube videos, reading and doing the tests.
Printing stuff, even taking the work in the slicer and analysis of the files in UVtools and similar before printing is also always quicker than ordering stuff online and I've never had the issue where I need minis on such a short notice that I have no choice but to go to a store and buy them.

>>95916128
NTA but where I live we have to pay for electricity and hazardous disposal

>>95912903
>Most people complaining about Warhammer price are underage.
Fuck off. I'm just unafflicted by whatever brain worms have you fags coming up with a increasingly creative and seemingly endless list of shit that's more expensive than GW but almost never includes other wargames except for, and only very occasionally at that, a couple of very carefully chosen licensed games. I could add a few obscure hobbies to the list as well, though I won't. Infantry like CSMs have crossed over the 100 AUD per box boundary, that's over $10 per model for a troops choice. I'm trying to clear my backlog of a couple of 28mm projects but I reckon it's to the point where I could set a challenge for myself to do an entire project of something fun with broad appeal like air combat for the price of a single box, a combat patrol would be easy.

>>95916795
>AUD
My condolences, but Warhammer really isn't that expensive if you don't have to deal with whatever the fuck causes prison colony prices to be so ridiculously inflated.

>>95916863
There's always some smartarse that's very quick to absolve GW of blame for its pricing. I suppose I ought to be thankful by comparison that you aren't the usual autistic teenager that thinks subscribing to libertarianism magically makes you better informed about Australian tax and wage policy than an Australian despite having zero specific knowledge.

Fact is, GW have the advantage of economies of scale and they're still ripoff merchants.

>>95914611
Yea, and back in the day a cheeseburger was $1 too

>>95916233
Even if your printer would run 24/7 for a whole year, it would be like 25€ for extra electricity. Those things don't use much.

>>95916795
>AUD
You guys do not matter. Everything is way more expensive for you anyway.

>>95914757
I know guys who do say the same thing and worked in the business.
>>95912745
that's not really a good thing for the train folks it's a shrinking market.
that's fine for them because trains are less of a GAME then Wargames.

>>95911858
40kiddies are psychologically conditioned to overpay for everything

>>95916795
>I could add a few obscure hobbies to the list as well, though I won't

You can always find cheaper stuff to do in your free time, Anon. Some people just go for a walk. And there is always more expensive hobbies, obscure or not.
But even if you say that a 1/72 scale model tank is a lot cheaper than a GW Leman Russ, for most people that enjoy Warhammer, the building and painting of that scale model is not as fun.
I have no clue about Australian prices in general, and i have no idea how much buying power 100 AUD actually have, but here, 100€ is not that much after the recent inflation and all. If i refuel my car fully, i pay close to 80€. If i go to a standard restaurant with my gf and we both have a beer and a normal sized pizza, its around 60€. (and in the end, this ends up being just a memory, like hooker-anons mexican girls) So to me, spending 60€-100€ does not feel like a lot.
Those are amounts i can (and do) spend without having to think if i can afford it several times per month.
All of that said, GW is fucking expensive, but complaining about prices leads nowhere. You can either stop buying their stuff, or accept the fact that they will never reduce their prices.
With 3d printers being very much an alternative, with almost everything being available as a scan and also recasts still getting better and better, there really is no need to buy original GW models to play Warhammer any longer.
You can complain about that box of CSM legionaries being 100 AUD (its 55€ here, what a bargain.. ), or you can just buy the same 10 guys from Chang or Ivan for 20-ish USD. Or, if you have a printer already, print them for a few pennies.

>>95912903
I'm jewish.
what now gentile?
seriously though, it's a game system it's not HURR HURR CARS
it's a social one at that, the lower the barrier for entry the more people can play, the higher the less are willing to.
i don't play warhammer because of that. i play wargames with my community, usually using 3d printed minis.

>>95914571
>5 terminators for $60 seems expensive.
it is.
you're an adult man, unless you made it big you have so many existing costs and obligation that it's hard to explain this, especially when it's not 5 termies, it require a lot more support than that. paint, glue, the rest of the fucking army similarly priced, meaning you'll have to spend a lot more to get it up and running.

>>95918865
>All of that said, GW is fucking expensive, but complaining about prices leads nowhere. You can either stop buying their stuff, or accept the fact that they will never reduce their prices.
this is my biggest issue with the community is this right here.
GW may famously not do any market research but this is an endorsement of the death of the hobby.
I 3d print, i recast i don't play 40k
but that's the thing i've already got hooked.
how does someoen get into the game now? with costs being so high and the decline of the west's buying power?

>>95918843
They also are conditioned to defend said buying habits and to defend a corporation that only wants their money.

>>95918922
>you're an adult man, unless you made it big you have so many existing costs and obligation that it's hard to explain this, especially when it's not 5 termies, it require a lot more support than that. paint, glue, the rest of the fucking army similarly priced, meaning you'll have to spend a lot more to get it up and running.

This is just bullshit Anon. I certainly did not "make it big". I have a solid job, and that allows me to "waste" several hundred each month on whatever i want, without having any impact on my bills, saving plans and everything else.

>it require a lot more support than that. paint, glue,

Thats just being dishonest, isn't it? You need that stuff, regardless where your minis come from and how much you pay for them. I paint my prints and recasts too, do you not do that?

>meaning you'll have to spend a lot more to get it up and running.

For sure, but you dont have to do that at once. See, the limiting time for "an adult man" with a family and obligations is usually not the money, its the time. I could head over to amazon, or some hobby onlinestore, or send an email to a guy in china and order 100 space marines, or i could fire up the printer and churn out some minis there. Anyone with a job can do that, be it GW minis or Frostgrave or historical stuff.
But then i have a pile of unpainted minis (on top of what i already have), which will take me probably until November to paint them. So what would be the point?

>it's hard to explain this, especially when it's not 5 termies

How is it hard to explain that you spend 60 on a fun hobby project that will entertain you for 2-3 weekends (maybe even more), and after that you can play with those miniatures for years to come? If money is tight, buy recasts, but its essentially the same: you get a lot of enjoyment out of that purchase.

>>95918937
>how does someoen get into the game now?

By buying a starter set from GW, and then a printer afterwards. But certainly not by crying online that GW is expensive.

I've been involved with Wargaming and the Warhammer scene/hobby more or less for the majority of my life by now. I recently dug around in the news and review section for some Old World stuff, back when these plastics were originally released for WHFB. It was posts from 2012-15. People still wrote pretty much the same stuff. The hobby will die, How can people afford those 3 Minotaurs for 30€? etc etc.
It just becomes so tiresome, especially since you can just google for recasts these days.

>>95912233
Apocalypse was one of the worst ideas in 40k. In essence, you "brought your entire collection to the field!" for games with absurd points caps. Think like 4-5k points for an 'small' game.

Bearing in mind that the rules from the 3-7E era began to fall apart at the seams once you started going above 2k.

>>95918975
How hard is it for you just to admit that GW stuff is overpriced?

>>95918865
Euro varies so much, going to some places it's cheap as for us, others it's expensive.
AVG wage here is 80k a year, so about 40k Euros.

>>95918972
It's basically the sunk cost fallacy. The more they pay, the more they suck GW's cock, and the more they get unreasonably angry at non-GW wargames

>>95919119
It is, which is why i buy recasts and print minis. And yet, overpriced and "hard to explain" is two completely different things. By your logic, going to a restaurant or the cinema is overpriced and hard to explain too.
>you're an adult man, unless you made it big you have so many existing costs and obligation that it's hard to explain that you spend 40€ for 1,5hours in the cinema, eating some cheap popcorn while watching a movie with your wife.

A box of Terminators gives you better value than many things, despite being very overpriced.

>>95912233
Given how Force Org charts worked back then if you weren't building one specific list you were instead trying to get enough models (with options) to cover a whole Force Org. That way you could build a number of lists around that. For Marine players that meant 6 Tac Squads, 3 Assault, and 3 Devastator when it came to infantry. The Marine kits all being compatible with each other meant that getting something like that box was good for fleshing out Squads that you had special bits for etc. So if you were trying to build up a collection like that you were going to have at least a Company of Marines by the end. That was also economically feasible back then too, unlike now.

>>95911858
Stockholm Syndrome and addiction makes the victim accept anything their abuser does to them, while self justifying it and convincing themselves it's their own choice and to their benifit to continue. Some actually feel pride for being manipulated so much. It actually becomes a status symbol for them on how much they have been abused and they will dismiss or abuse others for not being manipulated as much as they are. Don't hate GW's victims, pity them instead.

>>95911858
"I can't believe you pay for pasta at a restaurant. 20 dollars for 20 cents of flour"

This is how stupid you sound, you dumb, jobless summer teen.

>>95912276
Bro, you can't just out yourself as a shut in videogoomer like this.

>guns
>fishing
>cooking
>hiking
>classical art
>running
>sewing
>model trains
>traveling
>golf
>tennis
>LEGO
>gardening

Everything is going to be pricier than beating off on your pc that your mom bought you. You are not more advanced than us because you do nothing with your life; being broke isn't the flex that you think it is either.

>>95920400
>gwdrone is a fatfuck mutt neckbeard that can't stop thinking about food
lol
Go on a diet, fatty.

>>95912276
Bitch I built a table full of terrain for $40 using papercraft and it looks neat. Warhammer is nowhere near the most expensive hobby out there if you are halfway smart about how you engage with it.

>>95918922
I've managed to collect 5k points of minis on a single income with two kids and a mortgage. You people just like to bitch for the sake of it.

>>95920422
bro i have abs and you're too fucking stupid to scratch together the cash to buy the 80 dollar running shorts that nestle my supple, toned asscheeks, my 350 dollar headphones, or my 150 dollar pair of shoes that I have to replace every few months to run down the trail.

Your bitch ass can't afford my 400 dollar backpack or 300 dollar tent because you beat off too much instead of working.

This is a cope, we know you're fucking poor. Go make money instead of playing vidya for 40 hours a week and jacking off. It's fucking embarrassing to announce your poverty by price-complaining. If you can't afford it, it's not for you. Because why would a company want to appeal to broke losers??? Get your drivers license and get a job. How do poorfags not understand this??? BRB paying off my car, because I'm not a poorfag. 5K in cash is a little bit of money, but I'll just make more and then buy a fucking house a little bit later.

You wear crocs and pajamas in public; why should anyone care about your opinions on wealth and luxury??? Post your fucking credit score if you're the financial guru.

>>95920447
I don't get it, you write like the car you're paying off is a bronco with a lift kit but you're having a meltdown over somebody criticising GW

>>95920447
I really dont care how rich, or poor, you and him are, but lets settle on this:
Anyone with a job can buy a box of miniatures here and there, even if its overpriced miniatures made by GW. Spending a hundred here and there for a hobby is just peanuts, simple as that.
If you cant afford to spend that on any hobby, consider your life choices and work on improving your income first.

>>95918975
>I have a solid job, -
this just sounds like you're proving my point. either you live in a low cost of living area or you're making a bunch.
In my area, I'm making good money, living with in my means and i cannot justify that much.
though i am comically jewish.

>dishonest
no, saying it's 60 dollars for termies is dishonest. you need a lot more. you have upfront costs. if you're able to play those 5 termies you bought a starter, usually about 170, you need the supplies, paints, primer.
maybe i'm more money minded but those small costs add up more than big ticket.

>It's time.
Yeah no shit and yet you're here producing fucking essays on a mongolian basket weaving forum defending the cost of a wargame.
Anon, i do have to ask- who the fuck buys minis off of amazon, and more importantly if you recognize there is a more affordable option why not take it? I actually do buy recasts and i print, got a bunch with me.
if you could spend 35 right now on termies right now instead of 60 why not? the wait, you just made an argument about time.
quality?
recasters have great quality. better than FW and failcast.
treat your family with the savings.
but i recognize this is an onboarding issue for new people, i can circumvent the costs i've been in this game since 4th. but i also play epic, and i know you need people to play with.
i don't think i could afford my army based on what i used to make in highschool.

these boxes have consistently gone up with inflation but my money sure as shit isn't worth as much as it was in the 80s. 90s or fucking since 08.

>>95918994
why even buy the starter set anon?
you can pirate the books right here right now, everything else is on a wiki online.
why not just 3d print the whole thing?
if your fucking metric for on-boarding is dropping 3-5 hundred on a hobbyst tool to make 3d printed mini then what.
when i started the hobby i had a bunch of fucking peers. young folks who were playing. I don't see that anymore, everyone is established between later 20s to 40s.
i buy less and less from GW, i don't play the games and i know more people than i like who are priced out with rising cost of living.

>I've been involved with Wargaming and the Warhammer scene/hobby more or less for the majority of my life by now.
same bud, I remember buying a dwarven army and a marine megaforce with my summer job money.
now maybe i have a working class background but it's hard to justify this. everyone i knows tells me i could pick up a hobby with a real skill.

>>95920447
>Post your fucking credit score if you're the financial guru.
mine should be about 780 last time i checked. it's really just the lack of mortgage experience preventing me from breaking into the 800s.
credit score isn't hard.
buy something small, pay it off same day.
do that for years.
never let the owing exceed 1/3rd of your line of credit for any reason
don't take out too many credit cards.
fucking i'm mad actually, i got a hard check on a local credit card i picked up for a discount on my work boots, jumped my score down like 5 points for like a year or two.

>>95920443
>I've managed to collect 5k points of minis on a single income with two kids and a mortgage. You people just like to bitch for the sake of it.
the cost of mortgage, rent and housing in my area are so high that this is a pipe dream.
either you're older and were able to capitalize on the lower prices or you live in a more rural location.
good for you though, but you must recognize that other people in your country or your hobby or simply your language group have different financial realities based on their area

>>95921764
>you can pirate the books right here right now, everything else is on a wiki online.

You and me know that, does someone completely new to the hobby know all of that? Doubtful.

>>95916795
>Why is a product that has to ship from the opposite side of the world so expensive?????

>>95921654
>this just sounds like you're proving my point. either you live in a low cost of living area or you're making a bunch.

Middle of Germany, with a totally normal office job. Never seen an university from the inside, and i still can afford to buy miniatures whenever i want them. Time limits me way more than money in that regard.

>>95919119
How hard is it to understand that if something regularly sells out at a listed price, that's the value of the product?

>>95921869
Pirating the books is easier and more viable than getting a 3d printer.
this is particularly important there are websites that contains the rules very accessibly, i mean the SRD20 type sites.
most people i know will just send you to them.

>>95921654
>though i am comically jewish.

I think this is your issue Anon.

>>95921883
thinks are a bit more grim in the anglosphere I'm afraid. lots of foreigners buying homes to hide/hedge their money against inflation

>>95921930
I'm usually told it's a solution.

>>95921922
The original question was how someone gets into the game these days. And your average random person will most likely just buy a starter set, before getting in contact with the local community, and probably also before googling for methods to pirate the books.

>>95921950
possibly.
usually i see people come in, see the community and get turned onto the piracy.
regardless, the price is a barrier.

this was 40£.

>>95918713
>>95921871
Already covered that when the first of you replied to me.
>There's always some smartarse that's very quick to absolve GW of blame for its pricing.
>Fact is, GW have the advantage of economies of scale and they're still ripoff merchants.
>>95916984

>>95918865
I guess I didn't make myself clear enough. I could go into detail about all the shit in your post I don't need to be told, but for the purposes of the point I was trying to make: You people avoid comparing like with like, that is to say, GW products with other wargames (except the very few comparisons that are favourable to GW). I am only interested in anon-up-thread's Mexican hookers for the absurdity of it, for a laugh but also an illustration of how far people go doing this. I neither need or want to read how much it costs to have a dinner for two or fill up your petrol tank.

I'm also guilty of not seeing the forest for the trees, though.
>Most people complaining about Warhammer price are underage.
There used to be pocket money purchases. When I started as a kid we had other kids from all economic classes at our club. Now, it's pretty well shut off to most kids except those whose parents put them through straw hat schools. Warhammer has become the twentythirtysomething geek's equivalent to the middle age man's Harley Davidson, something they couldn't afford in their youth which they are now able to indulge in.

>>95925552
>Warhammer has become the twentythirtysomething geek's equivalent

Are you a kid? Or why does it bother you? They are the same in this, like Lego, and scale modelling for that matter.

>>95911691
I see those Space Crusade marines and I am pleased.

>>95925719
>Are you a kid? Or why does it bother you?
That's just "fuck you, I got mine".

>>95920400
More like they sell you the raw pasta, you have to cook it, sauce it, carry it to a friend's house in a cardboard box with magnets,your friend made a mock-up restaurant with spare chairs, an old pool table and some 3d printed bread, and eat it there, to have the "eating pasta at a restaurant" experience.

>>95925496
Sovl

>>95926168
You're leaving out that it's all super fun.

>>95925496
And that didn't help sales.
>>95926279
Wasn't considered soulful when it was released. No hype, no buzz.

For 30 years now we've had people online saying retarded shit like "warhammer is so expensive now, if GW execs were intelligent like me they would make their business less profitable"

>>95925552
>You people avoid comparing like with like, that is to say, GW products with other wargames (except the very few comparisons that are favourable to GW). I am only interested in anon-up-thread's Mexican hookers for the absurdity of it, for a laugh but also an illustration of how far people go doing this. I neither need or want to read how much it costs to have a dinner for two or fill up your petrol tank.

Comparing wargame miniatures to eargame miniatures isn't anymore 1:1 than comparing to petrol or a nice dinner. Sure they serve the same end purpose but you can't put a value on taste that's unique to every individual. You can't say two models have the same value because they both can be used for wargames any more than you can say any two paintings have the same value just because you can hang them both on your wall.

>Now, it's pretty well shut off to most kids

Kids these days pay way more for branded sneakers then any warhammer model, and they'll eventually wear out/grow out of those. Kids don't play warhammer anymore because no kid spends their own money on analog games anymore regardless of price. This is self evident by the fact that you can still buy models in plenty of places for cheap and no kid is buying those.

>>95925496
Yes, and back then a cheeseburger at mc donalds was 1€. So what? My grandma used to tell me how one spoon of icecream used to cost her 2 pennies.
Do you assume GW is some kind of a charity that artificially keeps prices low or something?

>>95925552
You seem to mix up things.
People bringing up stuff like Hookers are comparing how they spend their money, and what they get for their money in return (like having a good time with a nice mexican lady). This is how anyone usually checks his spending. i.e. is product X worth money Y FOR ME.

You however want to compare product X (for example a Space Marine) with product Y (a Stargrave Trooper), because you believe X and Y are interchangeable, because they fulfil a similar role.

You can do that, and without a doubt, you get more plastic wargaming miniatures for 30€ by buying a box of Stargrave Troopers than by buying whatever you get from GW for 30€ these days.
However, not everyone values those Stargrave Miniatures as highly as some Space Marines. Be it because they lack detail, they lack character, lore, or simply because they want to play in official stores/tournaments. And suddenly they become a less valuable product.

This is why people compare things how they do, they want to enjoy their hobby time, and to do that, they need a product for their hobby, not some random cheaper other product.
Imagine you want to play soccer, and i would recommend you to buy a basketball instead, because its cheaper. Its totally the same thing, right. Its a ball after all.

Other wargames are not the solution for someone who wants to play Warhammer, but wants it cheaper. Recasts and 3d Prints however are.

>>95925859
Completely besides the point. Kids these days spend hundreds on digital stuff. All sorts of Toy companies struggle, and/or adjust. Why do you think Lego strongly markets towards adults these days, with almost all the flagship models being nostalgia-bait stuff, like the Falcons knights castle or the re-released Blacktron space ship, marketed towards people like me, who had such a castle and space ship as a kid.

Its only logical that GW markets towards people who actually have money to spend and also have fond memories about building and painting models.
Our dads grew up with cheap airfix planes in pretty much every store and you probably build some of those as well, just like me. Do you think the average kid these days buy cheap model kits?

If anything, stuff like the Imperium magazines that GW sells makes the hobby way more approachable than it used to be. In addition to that, Underworld Warbands are affordable for pocket money too.
However, kids dont give a shit about that stuff. Maybe GW should release a anime/chibi style TCG with random booster packs and codes for some Gacha phone game. Kids would love it.

>>95920410
Running isn't expensive. $300 pair of shoes twice a year, $300 for events for the year. You can ignore events and buy cheaper shoes

>>95920964
it's more of less I'm sick of losers killing vibes when I know for a fact that this retard literally is putting 40 hours a week in fortnight/WOW/Helldivers on his 1200 gaming pc and doordashing 5 times a week. People assign moral failings to organizations and associations when the moral failing is on the individual unable to scrap together a hundred bucks every other month or so. They are trying to be percieved as smart or inciteful when they are literally the most shut in, out of touch, socially inept of the bunch. Most people know that if you can't afford something today, make changes so you can get it tomorrow. But autistic retards in pajama pants with disgusting visceral fat and neckbeards try to seem smart when they are really the biggest morons in the room. Disney, GW, Apple, Nintendo, Toyota, Chik Fil A, Nike, etc. are not morally failed companies because you can't afford it; they are simply companies that value a more competent consumer than great value, walmart, broke ass, dollar tree people. And because they aren't trying to appeal to broke people, these companies rake it in, hand over fist, constantly.

If you're poor, get off the internet and make some fucking money. Like, for real. You are not smarter for pointing out prices and complaining, you're just the one person in the group who is too retarded to save 3 hours of labor worth of cash to buy the shit you want that will last you months/years.

"How many times have you doordashed in the last month?" rule applies to every "muh prices" tard in every segment of the economy. Dave Ramsey is right.

>>95926854
>If you're poor
GW paypiggies will do anything to defend their abuser, eh?

>>95926920
He's quoting Dave Ramsey so he's either a troll, a brainlet, or seriously mentally ill, most likely some combination of the three.
>NOOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T PAY OFF THE DEBT ACCUMULATING THE MOST DEBT FIRST BECAUSE YOU NEED TO STAY POOR FOREV- I MEAN YOU NEED TO FEEL LIKE YOU ACCOMPLISHED SOMETHING

>>95926959
i meant the debt accumulating the most interest.

>>95926920
>>95926959
T. brokes.

Like for real, do you think in your communist paradise that you're going to magically get all of the toys you want for free or something? You could literally have done nothing except buy GW stock and after a year, you could have sold and bought any kit for basically free along with paints and tools.

20% APR people will stay broke forever for the same reason that "muh dice rolls" people will keep losing games forever. Still waiting for you to post your credit score. Stop getting doordash and that alone will let you get anything you want in any store after like a month.

>>95927098
I never order doordash, I like to cook in fact. I am not posting my credit score because I've never gotten a credit card and I've taken on very little debt. Without getting into to many details I was fortunate enough to have heard about bitcoin pretty damn early on and I work 40 hours a week doing something I like, and not because I need the money. I have a little bit of /tg/ and /v/ related stuff, this is true, and I have an ok-ish vehicle that runs well, but otherwise I live a bit like a monk compared to others in my demographic. I've invested, and it's all going to my nephews when I kick it. Oh, and I'm far from being a communist. Dave Ramsey is still a grifter. Again, you're a brainlet, insane, a troll, or some combo of the three. Enjoy your (you), it's the last one you'll be getting from me.

>>95927098
You're missing the point hombre, for these people the whining IS the entire hobby. They don't want cheaper miniatures, they don't want non-GW miniatures, they don't want to 3D-print or look into recasts. In 10 years they will post about the stuff that GW releases this year and talk about how cheap and soulful it was.

>>95927158
astonishing levels of projection
you fans should make out

>>95927168
fags fuxking autocorrect lol

>>95927168
Do you also spend time screaming at people who buy crazy expensive cars when a much cheaper car can do the same tasks? Or people who buy a smartphone for 150 money when a phone for 40 money does pretty much the same thing?
Or are you kind of just focusing on warhammer right now

>>95927200
>overpaying for stuff.... is le good!
You sir, are truly the most 40kiddy of all time

>>95927205
Hmm yes I've been perusing this thread for the past few minutes and I'm terribly sorry to say it appears your team is losing the argument. Please cease posting at your earliest convenience.

>>95925496
Yeah but 40 pounds back then bought you
>Half a cow
>3 bottles of wine
>10 packets of eggs
>a full tank
>A blowjob
And you had some to spare

>>95927205
I'm genuinely curious. For example, you must see people using the latest iphone all the time. How do you react when that happens? Do you tell them they are victims of abuse?

>>95916031
Enough to make people scream about how insanely expensive it was. People pledging to never buy from GW again and predicting the imminent collapse of the company and its business model.

>>95927200
>Do you also spend time screaming at people who buy crazy expensive cars when a much cheaper car can do the same tasks? Or people who buy a smartphone for 150 money when a phone for 40 money does pretty much the same thing?
hang on, a post ago you were writing
>They don't want cheaper miniatures, they don't want non-GW miniatures
so which is it? make up your mind fag

>>95911639 (OP)
FUARK that artwork has so much character

>>95925496
Who would win this battle? the goblins look like the favorite but IDK how much of a difference the cannon and dwarven training makes.

also
>same sculpts for stabbaz still being sold to this day

I really don't think they need an update anytime soon. nothing you can add to them besides bells and whistles that only serve to make chaff more tedious to paint>>95926959

>trying to explain to grown men who are at bare minimum a few Gs down into their plastic cocaine hobby that they are being ripped off
good luck with that
jews are right about the goyim

>>95927414
From my experience? Usually the dwarfs. The goblin win-con revolves mostly around the spider riders, as the troll looks imposing enough a new player will focus it down, or learn quickly enough to chuck the slayer at it.

>>95926773
Over the term of 5 years, you are running through $4500, 3000 if you ignore the events.
For half of that, you can buy a Warhammer army and play comfortably for 5 years too.

>>95926854
>If you're poor, get off the internet and make some fucking money. Like, for real. You are not smarter for pointing out prices and complaining

This. FFS, just stop the complaining. Especially since there are cheaper alternatives. Who gives a shit if a GW box costs $100, and who gives a shit if you can afford it. Just buy the recast for $20 and shut the fuck up.

>>95928420
Along those lines, if you can't spend 100 dollars on a long term hobby, you shouldn't be doing hobbies at all and should get the fuck to work. People making minimum wage can afford basically any minis they want and still end up with piles of grey because you get so much entertainment for the dollar. A dude literally works part time at McDonalds and he paints everything to parade ready, so he basically is like paying 50 cents an hour to get eventually the best looking minis in any place he is playing in.

Is this sperg actually broker than a part-time, burger and fry cooking teenager??? Along those lines, the discipline to acquire 100 dollars is less than it takes to paint, so I don't know what he's complaining about. They are for painting and he wouldn't be able to sit down and paint them because he plays too much damned vidya and is addicted to doomscrolling.

>>95926440
>Completely besides the point.
no i think that's the point, it's a game for people who got into tech before the bubble burst and comfortably make a lot of disposable income.
not a game where you as a young person could go in and play a game.
this isn't the 1980s kids are fucking plaiyng vidya, if you want the hobby to survive long term it must be accessible.
>the only way GW
if that was true WHERE THE FUCK IS ALL THE KEV ADAM SPACE ORKS.
they did one run of commandos but they didnt' do any of the stuff.
where's all the old stuff they could do production lines on?
GW doesn't do market research. sometimes they update an old design, otherwise they just produce new ranges aggressive, target competitive and FOMO the shit out of everything.

>>95929630
>if you want the hobby to survive long term it must be accessible.

Says who? Exclusivity works too.
But i'm sure GW knows pretty much exactly what they are doing. There are video games, and there are entry level game modes and games.
Have you seen the new Khorne Spearhead box for AoS? Its fully playable out of the box as it is, for the Spearhead game mode.
But at the same time, it includes a full Warcry Warband, which can also be played, right from that box if that person would want to try Warcry too. And with a few units more, they could play "proper" AoS (but Spearhead seems to be way more popular anyway).

Currently running is the Combat Patrol magazine, for a mere 10er you get all sorts of kits. I'm aware scalper love to buy those magazines off the stores completely, but usually its possible to pre- and backorder individual issues. (or just subscribe). With this, you can get quite a number of models, quite affordable. With those, you can play Combat Patrol and probably Kill Team too, depending on what you get.

And then of course is all the video games, and while people on 4chan shun the players as secondaries, GW does not, and welcomes them in.
I think, it works quite well for them.

>it's a game for people who got into tech before the bubble burst and comfortably make a lot of disposable income.

How in the world do you get this notion? Even if you were to buy a full army at once, including all the paints, its like 2000 in total? Who but the poorest does not have 2000 on their account for whatever emergencies? Granted, buying a Warhammer army is not an emergency, but pretty much everyone should be able to buy something for 2000 if its needed. And you certainly do not need to buy everything at once. In fact, it would be retarded to do that. And really, really everyone can afford a set of miniatures for 100-150 every two months, if he desires to build a warhammer army. (lets not discuss again how there are cheaper ways to do it).

>>95929846
>But i'm sure GW knows pretty much exactly what they are doing.
you're effectively arguing my point about on-boarding. making cheaper versions of the game that are playable to act as an entry way into the much more expensive hobby, the thin edge of the wedge.
but i don't agree with your assessment as a whole.

Having these small scale games doesn't mean they have a sustainable plan or even over all they know what they're doing.

>how in the would would you
literally the Lego target audience anon, you brought them up.
>it's like 2000 total.
>who in the world doesn't have 2 grand to dump on minis?
jesus fuck man i dunno, myself when i was a teenager getting in the hobby and all my fucking peers.
You know, that might be a good thing, because if i never got into wargames i might have spent time on a more productive hobby. you know, the cost of this box, i could put it towards a new GPU, CPU or towards upgrading my computer eventually.
saving for a new car,
new bed,
Advanced cooking lessons, maybe art/vocational training so i can pad my CV
big ticket things.
maybe a couple lunches with friends (you do have friends don't you anon?)
you know anon, maybe it's good where you live, but what i see is cost and it's hard to justify it. it's why i use recasts, 3rd party and prints much much cheaper in time and money.
and this is what drives me up the wall with you fucking mongs.

>3D PRINTING IS COMING.
businesses will fail, there's going to be a lot of superglue huffing retards like yourself who decide to stick to gw but things can fall apart pretty fucking fast.
and don't get me fucking wrong I don't want to see GW go down in flames but what do you expect to be pouring money into the company as more and more people are either priced out or leave.

>>95926773
$900 is more than enough to buy a warhammer army, people aren't typically buying a new army every single year

>>95929846
>Even if you were to buy a full army at once, including all the paints, its like 2000 in total?

Far less, paint supplies is hard to quantify but you can 100% get an army for <$1000, potentially even $500 for some factions.

>>95929969
Anon if 3rd parties and 3-d printing were going to kill GW they would have done it already. What is going to change that could tip the balance at this point?

>>95911639 (OP)
Close to 600€
>>95912289
1€? Where??

>>95929969
>and this is what drives me up the wall with you fucking mongs.

You listed all sorts of things that someone might buy for their money, but the thought of buying a box of miniatures here and there is completely outrageous for you? Guess what anon, some people just like to buy minis, even if they know about all the alternatives.

>>95930028
I just grabbed a random 2000pt Space Marine tournament army from a Goonhammer article (first place that I could think of to find an army list) and in total it came to £662.50 for seventeen units if you pay full GW RRP like some sort of maniac.

>>95930050
Pretty much this. Everyone who wants to print, is printing at this point. Printers are dirt cheap, easy to use and the quality is there too. Files, including scans, are available in abundance too.
There won't be any big technological revolutions anytime soon, and prices probably won't go below the current 150-200ish for entry level printers like a Mars.
It has not killed GW until now, and it won't anytime soon.

But I can see GW finally shuts down their resin casting at FW and start to print those models instead.

>>95930203
Since nobody with a job can paint all of that at once, you can easily buy this army in 17 nice and affordable installments and paint it one unit at a time.
I really do not understand the idea that someone needs to be rich to do that.

>>95920410
>hiking is a money intensive hobby

>itt paypigs melting down.
Kek. Love to see it.
Squeel piggy squeel.

>>95930248
Plus in reality people don't exclusively play full 2k games, someone collecting a new army should be able to play with his models at lower points values as he's building up his collection. The models don't just sit there uselessly until the collection hits the magic 2000.

>>95930275
Assuming you don't want to hike a variety of trails you could end up spending a good amount on gas alone, then if want to be comfortable you will need a good hiking backpack and boots, each of which can cost hundreds and wear out over time, lots of hikers even travel internationally to hike and an international plane ticket by itself could get you and army.

Of course you can just spend nothing and hike local trails exclusively in the same way you can just make paper cut outs to play warhammer instead of spending anything.

>>95930535
You've redefined walking in nature to traveling to taking a plane to a tourist spot while wearing accoutrements that are simultaneously pricey and prone to wearing out fast (you have never been outside in your entire life) because you wanted to fill a list.
Suffice to say that you could do with some good old fashioned hiking instead of whatever the fuck hole-digging you're currently occupied with.

>>95930050
>they would have done it
no that's retarded.
3d printing wasn't nearly as good as it is now, and as time goes on it's going to become even more accessible. GW's been doing 3d greens for years themselves.
Simple fact is the more you raise prices the more people chose to filter themselves out of the purchasing group. when there are easy alternatives people will jump to them if not they'll simply stop consuming.
enough people do that and it hits critical mass, GW no longer hitting their numbers, no longer able to afford the second factory, a lot of ranges are tossed aside
this happened in fucking 2007 and it took them 8 years to dig themselves out. they were cutting things down to their second most important job and i wonder if it wasn't for Heresy if GW would be a fondly remembered rump game like Warzone: the mutant chronicles.
something people fail to reckon with is big companies are weird. it might take a decade for them to feel something but when it does it eventually hurts.

>>95911639 (OP)
$1250

>>95925496
That set is what allowed me to get into warhammer.
At the time this costed the same amount as the rulebook alone.

And 50€ was a lot of mine for my southern italian 15y.o. ass. But this at least felt like a good introductory deal.

Furthermore, these models flooded the secondary market and for years you could buy them off of eBay or Kijiji for pennies on the dollar.
After I moved to Canada in 2009 I would routinely the thunderers or the warriors for like 3-5 bucks.
If I stuck with warhammer and play it to this day (older editions, of course, none of this TOW bs) it's because of this box

>>95930605
>3d printing wasn't nearly as good as it is now, and as time goes on it's going to become even more accessible. GW's been doing 3d greens for years themselves.
>Simple fact is the more you raise prices the more people chose to filter themselves out of the purchasing group. when there are easy alternatives people will jump to them if not they'll simply stop consuming.
>enough people do that and it hits critical mass, GW no longer hitting their numbers, no longer able to afford the second factory, a lot of ranges are tossed aside

Okay so where is the signs of this happening anon? If people are leaving the hobby due to 3-d printing improving and 3rd parties growing than why is GW still regularly selling out to the point where they're expanding their production to keep up with demand? There isn't going to be a sudden exodus, if GW were to die it would be slow and obvious process not a secret movement that explodes into a mass exodus, that's not how consumers work.

>this happened in fucking 2007 and it took them 8 years to dig themselves out. they were cutting things down to their second most important job and i wonder if it wasn't for Heresy if GW would be a fondly remembered rump game like Warzone: the mutant chronicles.

Heresey???? You think heresy was what saved GW???

Anon you're beyond retarded if you think a side project focused on forge world miniatures was what brought GW out of its slump. Hell it runs contrary to what you're arguing will be the death knell of GW. They were more expensive, lower material quality, and took no advantage of GW's scale until 2nd edition. What brought GW out of its slump undeniably, whether you like then or not, was primaris, their stock value, their profits, their growth has exploded since releasing primaris and following their current direction that you claim is holding them back.

>>95926375
>>95927214
This is from fucking 2006. Adjusted for inflation it would be 70£. Source, Bank of England.

>>95928401
>you can buy a Warhammer army and play comfortably for 5 years too.
>comfortably
as long as nothing you bought gets put in legends
a bold statement in the era of 3 year editions and all the shit that's happened over the last few

>>95930736
>Heresey???? You think heresy was what saved GW???
yeah I think the reforms of Rountree and the plastic heresy boxes did help significantly.
god knows i bought both boxes and maybe a 3rd. it was a damn good set both as an entry into 40k and 30k at the same time. Shit sold like hotcakes.i mean fuck the slump ends mid 2016 and that seems to point to it, kniggas too.
food for though consider how many times GW produced limited box sets after calth. there was that jetbike,
But I mean if you want to get into the rub, GW literally cut back two 3 games (MESBG, and warhammer fant/40k) around what 3 years before and just axed LOTRSBG and Fantasy within the same year.
I have heard reports from people inside saying that BaC saved the company, can't confirm that but yeah you need to remember that warhammer was in a very big pile of shit.

>what brou\
I'd say 8th not necessarily primarius. 8th was very inviting, including to me because it was a clean system compared to mess of 7th. from what i was lead to believe the slump ended at 2015-2016, 8th was mid 2017. I'd say as an entry way it sped up the GW explosion but the upward trend begins at 2016.
Gw adopted it's current cycle around the same time too and it took off.

>gw is selling out a bunch and they're building a second factory.
dude their business model is like what monthly big releases and two 2 new edition releases with a bunch of extra stuff.
Do you think a wack of old scuplts being sold out are because lootas are flying of the shelf every week or that their production runs are going for the next new release.
this should be obvious. one big fomo drop that gives you an army of like 8 units then the next in a different system, alternate for a while. Take world eaters, or Tsons, who are older. shit all support, just 1 off characters, maybe a then a killteam being folded in for some reason.
then it's onto the next project.

>>95911858
To play devil's advocate (and for the record, I never buy GW), but 40K isn't even the most expensive hobby on the board. I used to play MtG and YGO. TCGs get extremely expensive real quick if you have any urge to even loosely follow the power creep. And no matter how much you deny it, you will eventually want to get that super cool rare print for your deck whose prize orbits around at least the high end of two digits.

>>95911719
For that price it better come with a handjob too.

>>95911858
GW paypigs have lost all sense of shame and self-respect. Anyone who doesn't just 3d print models is retarded, the prices for models are completely unjustified and anytime you point this out you'll get legions of losers coming to GW's defense because they're too autistic to admit paying $60 for 10 grams of plastic is a waste of money.

>>95912276
I spent about 5 grand last summer on my Diving trip to Belize and I got a lot of it on the cheap. This summer I am only doing a few classes and have spent nearly $500 on classes where we're diving at a Quarry turned Dive Center. I am working towards my Drysuit Cert and drysuits are not cheap either.

It is all worth it to chill with the fishes and turtles and cetacans in their enviroment.

>>95912903
It's an expensive hobby if you're in Au or NZ. They fucking hate us.

>>95926370
>>95926405
We are on 4chan. You do not need to overexplain what the fuck is wrong with 40k/GW simps to me, no matter how much firsthand insight you can offer.

I could break all that shit down but I can't be fucked. I shouldn't admit it, but all these paragraphs of bullshit posted with a patronising tone are wearing me down. I will say this though:
Everyone agrees how much of a shithole /v/ is. And yet, find a thread posted by some console wars faggot and you will see they thrive on directly comparing different consoles, or with PCs. Nobody is avoiding comparing their console with another console to the point of writing how much their GF's tropical coral collection costs (a real example from a previous thread), nobody is writing the /v/ equivalent of
>Comparing wargame miniatures to eargame miniatures isn't anymore 1:1 than comparing to petrol or a nice dinner.
Shockingly, the most annoying, spammy fanboy of /v/ has more intellectual honesty and dignity than a significant number of /tg/'s fanboys.

40k, AoS, etc, they are miniatures wargames. No amount of fanboy derangement will change this.

>>95926370
>>95926440
>Kids ... branded sneakers ... don't play warhammer anymore
You guys are writing this shit like I made out Warhammer was a mainstream hobby in my time, I did not. Also writing like fashion, videogames, etc were not invented sometime in the last handful of years.
>>95926440
Underworlds is a cope, it's a second tier product. You do have half a point with those partworks, except a periodical doesn't change the fact that people can't get character blisters with pocket money any more. Also sucks to be anyone that bought and traded for the Stormcast in the AoS one.

>>95933400
>get character blisters with pocket money any more. Also sucks to be anyone

Buying characters instead of troop boxes is always a stupid idea if you are a kid, and they always were overpriced compared to troops. And let's please not pretend 25-30€ is too expensive for a kid.

>>95933566
>Buying characters instead of troop boxes is always a stupid idea if you are a kid
I should have written "etc", but you were probably destined to be obtuse about something and miss the point.
> let's please not pretend 25-30€ is too expensive for a kid.
I'm not even in your region

>>95933613
I don't care in what region you are. Kids have money if they are located in any 1st world country. And some hobbies are just not made with the 3rd world in mind. But pretending you can't buy something on a whim any longer is just ignoring the reality.

>>95933637
>I don't care in what region you are. Kids have money if they are located in any 1st world country.
I am in a first world country and you are absolutely full of shit.

>>95933688
Look at the prices of Lego Anon. A classic kids toy. Not the adult sets,mind you. Check prices for the small/mid sized Ninjago and city sets. These are aimed at kids, and somehow they (their parents, who pay the pocket money) can afford it.

>>95933688
>anon baffled by the notion of parents buying things for their kids
I'm sorry your mom hates you.

>>95933729
>they (their parents, who pay the pocket money)
>>95933768
>anon baffled by the notion of parents buying things for their kids
Perfect example of how deluded GW simps are, stating the obvious as if I'm the one that's mentally out of sorts. If Warhammer was less opaque, the mockery GW simps would get would be relentless.

>>95933729
>Check prices for the small/mid sized Ninjago and city sets.
They're fucking peanuts. 1/2, 1/3, even saw one of those little ones that was <1/6 of the price of the average 40k character model. Reward for not being a cunt while out shopping with the grandparents sort of purchase. Meanwhile a tween with birthday money burning a hole in their pocket is going to see that character model is the same price as a AAA title released last christmas. GW absolutely have priced kids out of their games.

>>95933869
>Birthday money
I used to get 100 from grandma 1 and 100 from grandma 2. Thats an entire combat patrol.

And Lego absolutely is expensive. Maybe check the part count on those tiny sub 30 sets. You don't get much in that range. (Funnily enough, it's Lego who out prices a lot of kids, hence the popularity of off-brands like Mould king. The difference to recasts is that they are legal)

>GW 2025 purchases
Kill Team Typhon
2 pots of washes
120

>2nd hand GW stuff
Some old codex and other books, some KT terrain from ebay
Around 150

>Recasts
Around 350

>Resin
3 bottles so far
60€

>Other miniatures
2 boxes of fireforge medievals and some quite expensive resin minis from Wargame exclusive.
150

>Random other hobby stuff
Little chains, some paints, plastic card etc
Maybe 100

I plan on getting some GW beastmen for old World later this year and probably end up buying 1-2 bottles of resin. Also, depending on what GW releases, I might order some more recasts.

So far I spend more on clothing than for my entire wargaming hobby this year.

>>95933869
>1/2, 1/3, even saw one of those little ones that was <1/6 of the price of the average 40k character model.
Sure, pick out the expensive models nobody ever buys more than 1 of since you don't need them to make your point. Surely that will make you seem very honest.

>Meanwhile a tween with birthday money burning a hole in their pocket is going to see that character model is the same price as a AAA title released last christmas.
Characters range from like 20-40 euros and are not very necessary. If a parent is looking to buy something for Christmas then they'll go for the big seasonal discount boxes. Get them online from a discount store and you'll knock off another 25%. You'll get a good deal and your kid will get a big pile to paint for a long time.

>GW absolutely have priced kids out of their games.
Again, I'm sorry your mom hates you although I'm not surprised that she does.

>>95933400
>You guys are writing this shit like I made out Warhammer was a mainstream hobby in my time, I did not.

The point is that the price isn't an issue anon not that kids do mainstream stuff instead of niche stuff.

>Also writing like fashion, videogames, etc were not invented sometime in the last handful of years.

They were far less popular and populations in 1st world countries where kids have access to disposable incomes has only gone down. Less kids + more kids doing other stuff = less kids playing tabletop wargames.

Further, if money was the primary issue, why wouldn't kids just be playing the "affordable" wargames that exist now?

>>95936586
>why wouldn't kids just be playing the "affordable" wargames that exist now?

Wargames in general are, in the eye of kids, pretty uncool. So is scale models and model trains. Some boys like that stuff, but its usually the nerds and outsiders, and not the "cool kids" everyone tries to mimic.
GWs prices might not help, but it is certainly not the main issue for kids. Sitting still in their room for a couple of hours, building and painting something is a way bigger problem for them.

>>95930605
I own a 3d printer and love it but it's not a replacement for plastic kits, the material fucking sucks to work with and most stls are hideous ass, plus using the printer itself is kind of a pain in the ass.I love being able to print interesting heads or shields, things like mushrooms for bases, weapons I need, and so forth, or printing whole forces for games with a small model count like bfg where there isn't any other good option, but I'd unironically rather just spend 60 dollars on a plastic blood bowl team than print it even though I have the printer ready to go in my spare room.

>>95912121
Imagine spending a couple thousand a year on toy soldiers. I can buy a bag of plastic army men for less than $5 and play with those.

>>95912302
Who cares what other hobbies cost? That isn't a defense for GW's pricing.

>>95936836
Realizing that nothing is cheap will help you in life in general. There is no need to defend GWs pricing. You either accept it, or you look for alternatives in the form of recasts or prints, or you do something else with your time and money. Those are your choices. No amount of complaining about GW prices will change it.

>>95936688
Right but I mean even those uncool kids into niche hobbies aren't playing the "affordable" wargames is the point. There's no large community of highschoolers playing battletech or bolt or infinity or etc.

>>95936836
Because pricing and value is contextual anon. We can only gage the worth of something by comparing it to other things. In a vacuum the price of something is meaningless.

>>95936976
A comparison is only valid between similar things though. Comparing GW's miniature pricing to the price of, say, fishing (which another anon already did) isn't a valid comparison and borders on being an intellectually dishonest tactics to defend GW.

A valid comparison would be to compare GW's prices to the prices of other miniature wargames. And in that comparison, it becomes clear that GW is overpriced.

>>95936938
The point of complaining isn't to get GW to change their prices, it's to shame people into not paying those prices anymore. Social pressure, shaming and making people feel stupid about what they are currently doing are some of the most effective methods of behavior modification and social engineering.

>>95937056
Not really, because you're paying to play basically anywhere in the world instead of herding cats to get several people to buy some wargame (that probably will be oop) and build and organize games. Being the cheerleader for your Not!40k scene is a lot of time and effort, to generally get far less than you put in.

>>95937166
Its completely retarded tho. Instead you should give advise on how to source recasts and/or quality STL files.

>>95937858
Nta but 40kiddies should be shamed for just existing.

>>95937876
Why does 40k make you halozooms so angry?

>>95937056
>A comparison is only valid between similar things though

The "similar thing" that gets compared is hobby time. What do i pay for my hobby, and how much quality time do i get in return. People like different things, but time is the same for all of them. You can tell 50 people that pic related can be made for maybe 5€ with a printer and the most expensive part was probably the bases. But if they dont care about Warmaster or other 10mm games, then they dont care and the comparison with my printed army is pointless. Some 40k players might rather go fishing than to paint or play Warmaster.

If those people want to play Space Marines, they dont want 10mm Beastmen. Simple as that.

>And in that comparison, it becomes clear that GW is overpriced.

And yet, they pay it, because they get their monetary investment back in what they perceive as quality hobby time.
You could show them some printed Space Marines instead, and that would be a far better argument.

>>95911639 (OP)
I remember this box. If you checked the price at the time, the 9 transports (8 rhinos and 1 razorback) were essentially free (the cost of the marines equalled the cost of the box.)

If you assume primaris
>6 boxes of intercessors standing in for 60 tacticals, £240
>4 boxes of jump pack intercessors standing in for 20 assault marines, £148
>4 boxes of desolators standing in for 20 devestatiors, £148
>Company heroes standing in for command squad, £42.50
>9 transports, "freebies"

That would be £578.50, presumably about £450 from a third party. It could be even cheaper if you use hellblasters instead of deolators.

>>95937952
>That would be £578.50

It would sell out in seconds for that price.

>>95911858
>.05¢ to make
It's probably closer to a single penny for a single troop-sized unit, possibly less.

>>95911858
Could be worse, I could be a TGC fag who spends hundreds on a literal piece of paper that costs 0.001cents to make.

>>95918865
>>95935511

>>95915406
>10k max
Maybe 10 years ago anon, decent used cars are around 12 to 16k

>>95936730
And i also 3d print, though it's usually through friends. the material is fine, a bit hard and brittle at times but i've worked enough with fail cast that it doesn't bother me much.
I agree it's not perfect however. the issue isn't that we're there for 3d printing, it's that we will be there at some point, and that point is getting sooner every day. flexible resins, ease of access and high resolution in the hands of general consumers rather than just large companies like gw who use 3d printing for their masters.
and what then?
prices will still go up but no amount of company dedication can keep enough people funnelling money into GW when the market eventually expands.
We're already starting to see wargames pivot hard into 3d. Warmahordes for instance, OPR i'm quite fond of Full Spectrum dominance it's neat.
when everyone with a bit of apartment space can be a producer you can't play it like the early two thousands, you're not standing on the corpses of all your dead rivals. everyone's your rival now.

Also STL is an issue of skill and diet, many aren't to your taste and you'll really have to dig if you want the things that exactly line up but that's more a matter of being spoiled for choice. took me a bit to find the retro orks and Chorfs i wanted but i did find them and they cost a hell of a lot less than Ebay sniping or waiting for GW to put it back up, even cheaper than recasts if you can believe it.
I don't have time for massed combat games that aren't like 6MM or so, the largest model count game i play is LOTR, so make of that what you will.

>>95937858
40kids don't want that advice though. You try to tell them about recasts and 3D prints and they start screeching like a bunch of autistic faggots about how recasts are stealing and 3D prints are inferior. Nevermind that neither one of those statements is true.

40kids are the worst player base in the hobby and deserve to have their game destroyed.

>>95939836
3d printied resin is easily the worst material miniatures come in, you can't cut it, it's the most prone to damage and warpage, and even with very good settings layer lines will almost certainly be visible somewhere.

And the technology is fundementally not accessible, sure newer printers are autoleveling and have a lot of the pain points of earlier designs improved upon, but unless there is a revolutionary change you still have to deal with a toxic vat of resin, still have to have a dedicated space for it, and still have to deal with the absolute massive pain in the ass that is cleaning up failures, replacing the fep peridocially, and god forbid you get any resin where it does not belong. It just isn't a good value proposition unless you
1.play niche games where the stls just btfo available armies or play only small model count games
2.are a major kitbasher modeler type
3.like digital sculpting

And I say that as someone who makes stls and incorpates prints into almost every model I paint.

>>95940211
It sounds like you're just bad at 3D printing and using your own incompetence as an indictment of 3D printing as a whole.

>>95940226
Yea sure retard, that's why gw is going out of buisness in 2 more weeks and everyone who buys a printer never buys another model.

>>95912276
I can barely think of a hobby that's cheaper than a warhammer army. A squat rack in your garage is about the same price, and that's the cheapest thing I can think of. A gaming pc costs more, the gear for nearly any sport costs more or about the same. Any substance addiction blows it out of the water. 40k is cheap unless you're a poor fag working for 19 an hour 25 hours a week or something like that (and probably even then it's not too big of a deal since you're likely not paying rent if you make that kind of money)

>>95940211
>you can't cut it, it's the most prone to damage and warpage, and even with very good settings layer lines will almost certainly be visible somewhere
Not sure when the last time you looked into this is. Basic resolutions are already up at a point where layer lines are a non-issue unless you intentionally do big layers on curved surfaces. And quality resin has some down in price to be normally accessible. It is more durable and flexible, even more so than plastics in some cases. If people are still using the shitty original rigid resin, bio resin, or 'water washable' stuff that is on them. I won't argue that the barrier to entry for printing can be difficult but this isn't 7ish years ago when it was still an emergent consumer technology and there is enough info and demos out there which covers pretty much any issue one might have with it that it is no longer the fault of the tech and down to the retardation of the user.

>>95940312
>Has to create a strawman to argue against in order to deflect from the fact that he sucks at 3D printing

Pathetic.

>>95940211
>>95940312
Illiterate
i said
>I agree it's not perfect however. the issue isn't that we're there for 3d printing, it's that we will be there at some point, and that point is getting sooner every day. flexible resins, ease of access and high resolution in the hands of general consumers rather than just large companies like gw who use 3d printing for their masters.
and this is true.
3d printing is leaps and bounds from where it used to be, that's undeniable. i but again it doesn't need to be perfect. it just needs to be good enough to cause GW issues.

>3d printied resin is easily the worst material miniatures come in,
failcast.
it's prone to damage and warpage.
it has an excessive amount of flash, bubbles and miscast issues.
also pretty sure you can cut resin pretty well if you've not cured it. like it's not actually that bad.
like i have a couple guys right now that are warped that i need to heat up to get their swords to not be floppy.

>>95940211
I just message my mate, he prints some shit for me, (it's not any more difficult to work with than other resin)

>>95940152
You sound like the classical bitter vet tho. You will convince nobody by your mad rants and people will react negatively to your posts for that reason. Provide them with alternatives, give them constructive ways to save money within their hobby instead if declaring holy war on 40k and gw. Nobody takes that shit serious, but if you show them a scanned and printed character, that gets people interested

>>95941573
>that gets people interested

No it doesn't. I have done exactly what you claim works and they always have a laundry list of excuses as to why it won't work for them. It's like 40kids just can't divorce themselves from GW even when they know they should. It's actually a pretty odd phenomenon that would probably make for an interesting psychological study.

>>95941610
eh, you've just got to filter for the right ones, my mates and all started with GW
the absolute degens in these threads that are like "GW isn't expensive, it's cheaper than ... *spins wheel* ... an 8 ball of coke every friday night!" are deep in the grips of the GW brain parasites

>>95941641
ntayrt btw

>>95941610
> I have done exactly what you claim works and they always have a laundry list of excuses as to why it won't work for them.

It worked for me. As soon as I saw someone post decent prints here a few years ago I was hooked. Same with first hints on how to contact Z.
But now you became bitter and every single of your posts shows it. You will convince nobody. It's kinda sad because I believe you have good intentions

>>95942215
>i could be convinced so anyone could
Well it's great that everyone is just like you.

>>95942221
You will never reach everyone, with no method, but some methods will give you better results than others.

>>95911639 (OP)
How much would Jesus charge for this box today?

>>95942783
Jesus would whip the executives of GW.

>>95915052
NTA what resin 3d printer for tech manlet? are they easier to use than filament one?

>>95930275
>top hiking sticks reaching $200

>>95942977
are you a boomer? do you need embarrassing aluminum sticks to do the same thing a fucking toddler can?

>>95942964
/3dpg/ will have you covered.
In short:
For miniatures - resin
For big vehicles/terrain - fdm/filament

Resin had a big advantage over FDM in how easy they were to operate, but some of the more fancy FDM printers are super easy to work with too nowadays.

Check prices for Mars 4 Ultra and Mars 5 Ultra. These are perfectly suitable for all your miniature needs, and big enough to print something like a rhino hull in one piece.
It might be worth it to wait for a sale, they often go on deep discounts and the 4 is not really worse than 5, the later model has some quality of life features that might be worth it, print quality is identical between the two.

>>95942964
I use a phrozen sonic mini, but that's ancient tech by now.
I'd say that a cheap resin printer is easier to use than a cheap filament printer (one without auto-leveling features), but more work in normal operation since you're dealing with liquid resin and prints that need to be cleaned off with alcohol. Resin printers are by their nature a bit messy.
Dealing with supports is probably the most tricky thing with a resin printer, but it's not really difficult if you use a slicer + UVTools + a bit of common sense. No real way to get around that it takes a bit of time though.
Leveling the bed and getting the Z offset right is the most tricky thing with a filament printer, both of these are automated on more expensive printers.

>>95943241
>No real way to get around that it takes a bit of time though.

I'd disagree hard on this one. Pretty much every Creator of STL files will provide pre-supported files these days. You could print for years to come with what files are available right now, and never ever need to bother with supporting something yourself.
I messed around with supports for a bit with my Photon 1 years ago, it was annoying and too time consuming for my taste, but because of my lack of experience i believed the "presupports are shit"-memes. Obviously i had quite some print fails while learning how supports work. After a year or so, i just thought fuck it, and ever since i print presupported stuff only, and if its not available with presupports i wont even touch it. Works fine, with a minimal failure rate.
So no, there absolutely is a way around supports.

>>95942964
Sunlu abs-like is the cheapest of the category and pretty good. If you think they are too fragile (which they shouldnt be, really) mix with some resin that gives the minis more elasticity like sunlu tough.

>>95943273
my experience with pre-supports is extremely varied. It's not a case of "presupport bad", it's literally the same process as you'd do yourself when supporting.
The problem is that they're only as good as the person making them was careful. Some creators are great at supporting their stuff, even making custom support trees and fans that work great, others clearly just hit auto-support once and called it a day.
It's much easier to mess around on the computer than dealing with failed prints so I find it prudent to analyze the files before printing.

>>95932515
Yes, a GW handjob. They have renamed it though, it's now called a PRIMARIS POWERFISTWANKATTACK(tm). If you ask for a handjob, you get beaten to the floor by their IP lawyers and forced to be the asswiper of the resident paypig Nurgle player..

>>95933729
Do lego change the brick sizes every couple of years to invalidate your current collection in an attempt to make you buy the new latest ones though?

>>95936811
That's what 40k started out as - you were encouraged to improvise, scratchbuild and proxy whatever you could get hold of or already owned. Todays generation though have been mindwashed into thinkng they can only buy and use 'the latest thing', that they should never think or do things themselves ,something that GW (and other companies today) exploit to the full.

>>95937906
It's the same rage most feel when they see a drug pusher selling drugs outside a school playground. It's seeing them become addicted, seeing all the life wasted, all the money they throw away, just to keep the pusher in business. The addicts will defend the pusher though, arguing that the huge amount of money they spend is acceptable, shilling new products, believing that GW actually cares about them.

>>95912286
With the added benefit of touching grass instead of huffing paint fumes and nerd sweat. You're not helping your case.
>>95920410
Same again. Shit like cooking, running, gardening etc are net positives to almost any life by default. The comparison is ridiculously skewed.

>>95944049
You sound like the fox below the grapes Anon, do you even notice it?

>>95930596
Yes anon you can limit the scope of your hiking hobby to make it cheaper just like you can limit your wargaming hobby by buying cheaper minis or making your own. Personally though I would rather hike the Alps then in your backyard.

>>95931835
>god knows i bought both boxes and maybe a 3rd. it was a damn good set both as an entry into 40k and 30k at the same time. Shit sold like hotcakes.i mean fuck the slump ends mid 2016 and that seems to point to it, kniggas too.

Oh okay I understand, you just have a myopic view of things because you can't comprehend something being successful unless you're personally buying into it.

The slump didn't end in 2016, it ended in 2017 coinciding with the announcement and release of primaris

>>95945012
>you just have a myopic view of things because you can't comprehend something being successful unless you're personally buying into it.
oh i'm sorry anon, did it not sell well?
If you have data, or even anecdote by all means now is the very time to present it rather than simply fish for an excuse to throw out the point.

>it ended in 2017
And i say it started in 2016, From what i understand 2016 was the end of the reforms and the restructuring from 2013 onwards, so on one hand it'd be no surprise that it took off after that solidified.
in addition it coincides with the stateside the total warmmahordes death. mk3 was 2016. removing it's only real competitor.
When you think about it, it really was a very, very well timed event.
>Primarius
It's a very marinefag way to think, now who's being myopic? cheeky cunt.
While i don't care for the design i don't think there's is much significant change to their outside appeal, they're big armoured soldier dudes, same as rogue trader.
Meanwhile while i believe Marine players will literally buy shit so long as it's sprayed ultramarine blue. it doesn't need to be primarus, they all bought like 10 boxes of devastators and free drop-pods to put them in the edition before, i think there's a different beast here than them just buying a new army whole cloth.
The entire environment GW occupied, their strategies and their target demographics changed or expanded. i don't think you're laying it solely on the Primarius and i don't doubt another marine release didn't push more minis but i think you're excluding other factors to focus on it.
While i did point to heresy, it's seldom one thing or one person.

>>95912054
thats hilariously implausable.

>>95946446
>And i say it started in 2016

Okay? I don't care what say, sales reports and stock values say otherwise. Your entire opinion is based on your sole perspective and nothing else.

>>95945012
>myopic view of things because you can't comprehend something being successful unless you're personally buying into it.
ironic
>>95945012
>it ended in 2017 coinciding with the announcement and release of primaris
>primaris
8th ed 40k*

>>95946472
That's easily verifiable from their latest financials covering the past 6 months. Their core business brings in about 270 million and core operating profit is something like a 100 million which gives you something like 37% profit before tax. So, yeah, a bit bigger than 30 but still in the ballpark.

>>95948318
>covering the past 6 months.
Covering the last 26 weeks, ending with December 2024, sorry for the mistake. In any case, the rest of their financials are pretty similar in these past few years going anywhere between 30-40 % depending on the year

>>95930736
>Heresey???? You think heresy was what saved GW???
According to a former GW product designer, contrast paint saved them. As he tells it, GW needed some way to easily get you from buying a mini to having that "wow effect" you get when you paint your first mini and you're happy. The answer was: "How about a new paint that you can just apply in one coat over an undercoat?"

The entire interview is quite interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-63A7cDkOm8

>>95948389
You know that it's right when pretty much every single hobby paint company is doing their own "contrast" stuff.

>>95948389
>>95948798
Contrast paint is the AIslop of painting, casuals love it and GW has been trying to sell Space Marines to normies who at most did fingerpainting. Its like having massive training wheels on your abilities so you only can do a couple techniques max since the stuff is so specific in how it works. Its smart though because it means everyone can sell marks 2 sets of paint.

>>95948930
>Contrast paint is the AIslop of painting
stuff that works 90% as well with 10% of the effort and makes retards seethe for some reason?

>>95948944
Yeah its like McDonald's burgers, the average retard thinks they're amazing but anyone who can cook can make a far better burger for cheaper.

>>95948959
fast food of paints is perfect for painting gaming minis. Quickly getting it done and having it look good at a meter distance on the table is all you need. Contrast paint is awesome for doing 3/6mm vehicles

>>95948994
I know, Ive made contrast mixes with regular paints. Its just medium/flow improver added to regular paints.

>>95948994
I think the counterargument would be: Why are you in such a rush to paint the miniatures you have? Taking the time to make it look extra good is part of the fun, right?

>>95948994
Contrast paint is like taking over a Pizza Hut. It doesnt matter if you're selling diamonds and gold, your building still looks like a Pizza Hut.

>>95949064
Some people want to play games first and paint second. Others paint first and play second. Different painting techniques for different goals.

>>95949173
Yes we are talking about how this stuff is great for more casual people not into hobby stuff.

>>95949064
because they're game pieces you want to get on the table so you can play. Any way that encourages people to paint their minis and create a much better look on the table is a good thing.

>>95949183
playing is the hobby. You're thinking of scale modeling

>>95949200
Ever since the beginning, wargaming has involved painting miniatures. The hobby is building, painting and playing. You can roll dice digitally with digital minis, or even unpainted minis. Just because you arent good at painting or feel like you cant paint quickly doesnt mean you get to rewrite what wargaming has been about.

>>95949200
Playing is part of the hobby. But since people are not the same and how much they like each aspect of their hobby is different too. For some, contrast paint is a blessing and apparently (according to that video above) this is a big amount of people, otherwise that type of paint would not sell that well.

>>95949206
>wargaming has involved painting miniatures
except games with pre-painted minis, or blocks, or counters. Painting ultimately only exists to make same wargames look a bit more lively and for player expression as well as immersion.
If you want to focus on painting and clutch your pearls about people not using the right products there are scale model shows and competitions that are all about that.

>>95949940
Yes, there are exceptions, but painting is, as he said, usually, part of the hobby.
Some people value it more, and some of them consider miniature painting their own hobby, and dont play at all with the wargaming figures they paint. Others obviously focus on painting busts, or scale models. Its pretty obvious that there is a bit of overlap between several individual hobbies, and you can take as much as you want from each of those, to make up your personal hobby. There is no right or wrong here.

>>95946722
>your sole perspective and nothing else.
while that isn't true, shut up and post your sources.
i mean it's really fucking stupid to accuse someone of that then fall into the same trap?
self awareness not your strong suit or something anon.

you were gassing on about how much time adults have but you're here arguing with me.

>>95916233
>Hazardous disposal
It's UV sensitive. put it out in the sun for a bit and now it's dry plastic that can go in the regular bin.

>>95930050
The real threat to GW is going to be these new "home" plastic mold injection kits that are being worked on. They are still way to expensive for the average person to have one, but if they ever get as cheap as a 3D printer, it could become an issue for GW.

>>95940152
recasts are stealing (and more importantly inferior) and 3d prints are inferior tho

Why do warhammer retards think it costs 900 dollars to go hiking?
I do that on the daily with 14 year old shoes for about an hour a day.

>>95954061
The real threat is volumetric resin 3D printing. Because the way that is looking to work is zero supports and printing in a fraction of the time. That removes the biggest hurdle to widespread adoption of 3D printing, and makes print on demand services even more financially viable. It also removes a significant hurdle to getting product into the market for other gaming companies too.

>>95954077

>>95954364
They are desperately trying to justify over paying for plastic.

>>95954364
>I do that on the daily with 14 year old shoes for about an hour a day.

That is called going out for a stroll.

>>95911858
They should charge more actually, you have no idea how dificult this business is.