Thread 95916203

all smiles edition
latest heresy >>95907942
>HH 3.0 Leaks
https://imgur.com/a/344L8ku

>New Edition Soon™
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/

>New to The Horus Heresy? Here’s Everything You’ll Need to Get Started
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/30/new-to-the-horus-heresy-heres-everything-youll-need-to-get-started/
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)
https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8
https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS
>30k TACTICA & TIPS
https://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/2.0_Tactics/General_Tactics

>MEGAs are down for the time being, going to wait for things to cooldown with the new edition and leaks before bringing them back up

『Adeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialis』
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/
>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colours
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview
>More lists
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions
>What size magnets do I need?
5x1mm
>Tactics
https://1d6chan.miraheze.orug/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics

>TQ : what was your latest game and how did it turn out ?

Just looking at the new officer model, he hs multiple face plates

>>95916203 (OP)
>TQ
My mech versus a friend's iron warriors, 3k blood feud on ambush deployment with me in the middle. Perturabo bonked the fuck out of my secutors, melta jetbikes turned my thanatars in to slag, and a desperate deep strike melee assault with chain bayonet thallax ended very, very poorly. Really fun game even though I got fucking molested.

>>95916203 (OP)
>TQ
I was tutoring a newfren, I was playing SoH, he was playing DA
While it was really overwhelming for him, as he only played Kill Team, he had a blast nonetheless and definitely wants to play again

>>95916235
>Who am I, so many faceplates

>>95916235
I'm dumb ignore me

>>95916197
Very nice anon, don't forget to apply a wash on those recessed panel lines

>>95916203 (OP)
my blood angels vs alpha legion, i took sanguinius for once, i gave as good as i got, and won due to running out of time.
fun game, but a bit stale with the primarch duel, alpharius got trashed by angry sanguinary guards with axes while he and sanguinius barely scratched each others

>>95916197
sweet, need to pick up a contemptor for my angry bois

>>95916203 (OP)
>>TQ
RG VS IF stone gauntlet. We called it a draw during turn 4 iirc when our warlords died. When hyper killy meets unkillable it turns into fizzles. It was low key misery.

>>95916315
Interesting style anon. Do you draw it cleanly first and then go back and apply all the squiggles for texture?

>>95916203 (OP)
I haven't actually got to play a game since 1st Ed

>>95916206
>30k is the one game I trust options to remain the same with only points and stats changing.
Wouldn't say so. CCWs on tacticals and TSS became a point sink in 2.0. Despoilers and assault squads went from 1 power weapon or pistol per 5 to 1 pistol and 1 power weapon per 5 (what are the chances it'll change again?). Think Despoilers will keep the option for two pistols when no option for such things exist? HSS and Seeker sergeants lost a bunch of options. And that's just some basic units. Terminator standard bearer lost a weapon and the squad lost their heavy weapon. There's plenty of changes they did when the game itself didn't change that much.
>What exactly are you afraid of?
A lot of things, which is why I'm doing fuck all until I can see the full army lists.

>>95916349
Just model your army how it seems sppropriate and looks cool anon.
If someone shitty rule change makes your hand flamer illegal in HH 5.0 in 6 years time then so what?

>>95916203 (OP)
I got my ass whooped playing my power-playing-pal. He's a good buddy and it's good to be able to measure my list against a powerful one, but boy is playing him infuriating sometimes.
He's also here on occasion but I've told him this to his face in between the swearing.

Considering how far they have to plan shit ahead are they already working on HH 4 as we speak?

>>95916385
>so what if quarter of your models will not see any use for years?
How about I'll just wait a few weeks, look at the rules and plan accordingly instead?

>>95916398
No, even in 40k they only start working a year before the end of the edition

>>95916331
oh I just saved it from the drawfag in the threads

>>95916385
you are a fucking retard. 3rd edition is here now. If they break something it's broken for the next 3-12 years, that's a 0-day gap when it's fine.
People whose lives aren't entirely worthless aren't going to waste a month building, converting and painting some customized squad if it won't be enjoyable and useful to them. It seems your life is so worthless you're fine if you waste the little time you have on the earth before you're worm food, but trying to preach "do dumb shit" as if you're giving advice just makes you look like a fucking douche clown.

>>95916479
>>95916418
Uh oh WAAfag melty

>>95916479
As if playing a game using plastic toy soldiers isn't already a waste of time.
Life has no objective value anyway, as value is a subjective metric dependent on culture and personal preference/experience.

>>95916479
Stop projecting bro.

I am saying to enjoy the hobby instead of getting mad on a basket weaving forum that some un8t might be more or less competitive than it was in another edition of historic war dollies.

>>95916539
At least try next time.

>>95916394
So who's who in the pic and what were the spark notes?

>>95916632
3k Raven Guard vs Blackshields. Blackshields lost everyone except like 12 dudes, the knight, and the tarantulas, Raven Guard lost like 15 models.

>>95916394
Trust RG to be cringe, why is this guy dabbing

>>95916349
Meanwhile I haven't hobbied this much recently for 30k in years. I'm not worried about things like scanners, melta bombs, etc. If a unit gets a new pistol or melee option I'm just not going to bring it. I doubt any of the core visible gear will change enough that I need new purchases. Once it's painted and based that's what it gets.

>>95916394
you haven't shown any sign he's power-playing, just that you suck and bring stupid blackshields instead of playing actual horus heresy and picking a legion. Major self-own.

>>95916653
I hate how this player is the evil version of me. That's the plastic RT mini I also gave a jump pack. But I have mine with a sword and volkite because he has a disitigrator on his hip for a Moritat. He also converted the Praetor up with a jump pack. Mars bases too.

>>95916665
You're a faggot

>>95916665
While I am curious about what constituents power gaming here too, black shields are incredibly based and you have no taste.

>>95916653
Dabbing is a legitimate attack style with lightning claws

>>95916665
Somebody failed their cool check

is the background a good idea ?

>>95916763
retrying without the straya filter

I don't know if Leaker anon is still around but if (you) are could we get the unit type rules?

>>95916772
Yes, the background is a good idea.

>>95916772
backgtround is good, dont know about the warp blur effect around your ships

>>95916776
Leaker anon has abandoned us long ago

>>95916790
Probably too busy building the Saturnine he claimed to hate.

>>95916776
The "leaker" was a GW plant, the ebay thing was just a cover up

>>95916786
i blame shaky hands

>>95916812
steady travel through the warp, anon. I'm a sallie enjoyer so I really like those ships, good work with the background too.

>>95916812
What's the big ship, a Salamander gloriana class?

>>95916800
Sure, and Spikeybits is good journalism.

>>95916825
yes, before sfs designed a sallie gloriana flagship, i also have a ramilies star fort in sallie colors

What happened to leaker anon? I'm surprised the whole book hasn't been recorded at this point.

>>95916879
>>95916790
He's here, he just lent his rule book to a friend since he already shared a shitton of rules.

>>95916882
Shame he didn't post unit types, people are still coping by saying the Walker unit type surely will provide +1 WS

>>95916996
i've only seen anons say weapons will do that.

>>95917003
There isn't a WS modifier in the melee weapons statline though, and neither was there a WS modifying universal special rule. Though overload also seems to be missing, so who knows how many basically universal special rules and unit (sub) types will be in the Libers again.

Looking at the effects of all status effects, it wouldn't surprise me if causing status effects becomes really important. Like, it even stops a unit from counting as having remained stationary, that already cuts the damage of a lascannon HSS in half. Maybe that grav (3) weapon on the saturnine dread will turn out to be the best of all the weapon options, lmao.

>>95917067
>the new signature mechanic is going to be important
Wow anon, you really had a good thinking for that one huh?

>>95917067
I just want weapons that force cool checks to become a meme

>>95917080
It's definitely not a guarantee, this still is GW rules writing we're talking about. Battleshock was new to 40k in 10th edition, yet most of the time it does fuck all.

>>95917090
That would be (n)ice.

>>95917111
Battleshock by itself no but armies with a mechanic to force tests usually with a penalty make it work.

>Only just now recognise that reaction allotment in 3.0 is per turn, rather than per phase.
Man, maybe I really am a dumb retard.

>>95917159
Did you also only notice that units can only react once a turn which would make that horribly overkill anyway

>>95917187
Only because everybody was talking about it. Thought that you could still have different units each do one reaction in each phase by default.

>building mk3 tactical squad
>put pistols on all of them
>2/3rds of the way through realize they have left handed holsters but shoot right handed
Is there some lore or tactical reason I'm missing or is GW just retarded, per usual?

187 pair of boots on the ground, should be easy to reach 200 once i paint what's primed

>>95917361
>tile
I'm watching you.

Did the mega have bl novels before it got taken down, or have those been gone even longer?

>>95917502
They never had BL novels.

>>95917549
I dunno. A lot of those books are pretty gay.

>>95917342
So they can pull a pistol while still holdin the grip of their bolter

>>95917361
Neat

>sell the house to afford dream army
>huff glue for a few days so I have enough dead braincells to think buying said army is a good idea
>Alright I'm ready to start an army!
>Check webstore
>Most items are out of stock.

Maybe there's a good reason people are turning to the 3d printer.

>>95917342
there are multiple ways to pull a pistol from a holster anon

>>95917361
Extremely based

>>95917342
marines are ambidexterous

>>95916772
The background completes it.

>>95917446
what?
watching him masturbate?

>>95916800
it's pretty obvious every leak picture was from GW. They posted 7 pages and then stopped for the month instead of just sharing picture or video of the book.

It took me a few minutes with an iphone to get pictures of my friend's books (and less blurry) just to skip downloading a PDF of them and that wasn't with a "super secret leak book"

GW just released these pictures specifically as advertising and then wanted to hide the rest of the book.

>>95917601
bot

>>95916398
They're probably moving on to working on AoS or TOW or whatever's up next.
Makes sense to me to have 1 rules team that just rotates what they're making rules for each year than having a rules team for each game, especially when they don't really give a shit about what came before.

>>95917794
just buy off ebay you'll get most of everything nine or ten bucks off

>>95917909
Sure, and GW steals your left socks, loses your mail, and keeps moving your keys too.

>>95917952
I knew it was them! That, od my Jewish neighbor

>nearly spent thirty dollars on one fucking conversion for a joke someone made here
fuck me I'm bored with everything.

>>95918021
If you’re looking for something to do that isn't a waste of time try making some terrain. Can be shockingly fun, cheap and has a lot of room for creativity.

>>95918082
Painting terrain is soul draining.

>>95916812
When is this game supposed to come back? They can just kill of aeronautica already

>>95916812
Fuck yeah, spaceships

>>95916772
Unavoidably so

>>95917135
Cool weapon

>>95918099
They killed aeronautica ages ago, didn't they?
I thought it died with LI, if not before.

>>95918135
It’s still on the webpage I think. For both.

>>95918135
>>95918138
Aeronautica has been gone for quite a while. Only LIgma and Immortal Titanicus are listed.

>>95918135
>>95918138
AI is dead, it's a game made by a retard who didn't give a shit about it anyway.

>Telemon dreadnoughts have at least one plate of armor made by the Emperor himself
aww, that's cute.

>>95918021
>thirty dollars
Absolute amateur hour. If that's too much for a joke you need to find a cheaper hobby.

>>95918253
There's a difference in not being able to spend the money and not wanting to

I hope Zardu gives ashen circle whatever the equivalent of line will be in 3.0.

>>95917943
Not how Games Workshop is structured in 2025.

There's the main studio and the Specialist Design Studio. Last we knew SDS was still in charge of HH. They do not get to touch AoS. TOW was in kind of a nebulous place where there were rumours it was begun by SDS and then the main studio butted in when they smelled success impending.

SDS will probably be working on Necromunda, or Mordheim 2.

When's Era of Ruin on audible

>>95918462
TOW is a product of Forgeworld/Specialist Studio, the job listing mentioned nothing about TOW as part of 40k or AoS division. A distinct feature of a FW product is the resin kits.

>>95918574
When's that from?

Most recent official mention of Warcry, lol?

>>95918601
it was May 2025. Apocalypse been dead for 5+ years now.

Not especially happy with it all, but just finished my last few pieces for an event in a few weeks. Now working on my Blood Bowl before 3.0 drops and I find out what I need to rework.
What are you working on?

Oh are we using this thread as the games work shop general substitute now?

Painting Night lords and the Night lord blue doesn't really stand out that well, should I swap to Kantor blue or just keep going?

man, he's so fuck-huge it's comical, and I kinda love it

>>95918727

GW ‘Night Lords’ color is awful. Too green. And they fucked it up back to 3e with all the showcase NL with being too damn blue. It’s MIDNIGHT. They sell/say it themselves a thousand times. Best ive found is Abaddon black prime with with a few medium-diluted layers of Kantor, yes. I’m a shit painter but even I noticed this and it drives me nuts

>>95918763
I feel like its midnight blue too (like my blue in that pic). The bright blue I don't think works well and looks too ultramarine-y.
I might stay the same blue with a purple wash.

Pic related looks silly

>>95918747
Saturnine TDA should have been dreads, and the fuckhuge dread should not exist.
Their size would make a lot of more sense as being part of the first dread generation ( boxnoughts and Furibundus)
It's telling that they're pretty much the same size as the old RT dreads

>>95918747
>Disintegrator pistol, gun, blaster, combi-, heavy, and cannon
>Plasma pistol, gun, blaster, combi-, [], and cannon
>Bolt pistol, gun, twin-linked, combi-, heavy, and cannon
I heard plasma cannons are sometimes called Heavy Plasma Guns, but never heard storm bolters be called "bolt blasters".
Bolt carbines, however...

>>95918785
god why wasnt this what we got instead of the retarded saturnine dreadnought?

Morning everyone, hope you had a great Midsummer with sunny weather and delicious food.

I've a question: would the mining suit used by the Genestealer Cults in 40K work for some kind of Militia or Imperial Army unit in HH?

Additionally so I don't double-post, is there a particular pattern of Bolter that's off-limits in HH since it didn't exist yet?

>>95918891
desu even the old Space Crusade dreadnoughts would've been better than the Shiturnine.

>>95918956
The mining suits themselves are great, but make sure to file off any genestealer details since Nids aren't even in the galaxy yet (barring some timeline wobblyness)

>>95918976
These guys already exist as Deredeos. And >>95918785 are Pwnitent Engines. Saturnine look like that because they are a remake of the old Satuenine models.

>>95918956
Not feasible imho. You can't use some of the special weapons, you don't have access to some types at all and no heavy weapons. And you need to file off the faction symbol on every single model and replace it with something, because you can't file off the chain it hangs down from. I did that for 40k chaos cultists and replaced it with a skull, also having some mutations makes sense for cultists, but it still wasn't really worth it imho. You also need to buy a bunch of heads or you'll be stuck with the few non-bloated ones. Doing that for more than 20 models is absolutely retarded. The clean conversions you can find online are almost always for skirmishes or literally no games.

>>95919043
was the saturnine dreadnought an old model? as far as i could tell they literally just took the saturnine terminator design and scaled it up

>>95918956
Scandinavian detected, happy midsummer to you as well.

Yeah the Gene cult are a good fit for Militia grenadiers with carapace armour.

>>95919035
Read Pharos, they comin' right round the corner

>>95919043
>These guys already exist as Deredeos
No.

>>95918747
I think GW got insecure from tortugabay so they had to troon even more

>>95918763
Yeah I just use Kantor Blue and then I do a brown wash.

>>95919053
Pretty sure the Sattie dreaf is 100% made up, I was talking about the Termies. Though I have a hunch that it's meant to be the missing link between Levis and Telemons. Levis were designed on Terra after all. Of course you'd have to explain how Saturn comss into play but ehhh.


Is anyone else confused that they made the buggest and most physically imposing Termies and Dreads yet, and then made them ranged-only with no melee ability at all?

>>95918253
Love the paint job, especially the Thallax

They are going to squat the Inductii rules arn't they?

>>95919112
If that's the case, it will be no great loss. Their rules in HH2 were unfluffy, weak, or both.

>>95919112
Of course they are, same as Shattered Legions and Blackshields. Gonna have to wait three years for them to receive three bad PDFs that somehow make them even worse than they were before.

What do you listen to whilst assembling/painting?

For me it's a bizarre mixture of club music, real life war songs and soft female vocals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoECONMMQhA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ufA43VpHVs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sfYpolGCu8

>>95919068
In my head the dread is too slow and clunky for melee. Even though I fully expect a melee loadout in the future. The terminators I don't know. I guess too much redundancy even for GW?

>>95919132
>>95919137
I thought they were a cool and fun addition

>>95919144
Podcasts audiobooks not tunes.

>>95919144
>What do you listen to whilst assembling/painting?
I've listened to electro swing, Mittsies' Voidreckon, sometimes the Arcanum of Steamworks and Magick Obscura soundtrack, and recently police bodycam footage.
Something about the cries of criminals being caught is cathartic to me.

>>95919159
Good idea, bad execution. IMO.
Most inductii were just basic bitch tacticals or despoilers used as cannon fodder by the older crusade vets.

>>95919169
I just enjoy the flavour of the different color schemes

>>95919144
>What do you listen to whilst assembling/painting?
Gay sex, Farting, Screaming compilations, all overlapped.

>>95919112
Big mistake if they actually go down the "no model - no rules" route. The whinging will reach End Times levels and homebrew rules will become the norm

>>95919177
Some of the inductii schemes were wrong and were better suited for vets, but yeah that was a great addition.
Anyway the inductii paint schemes are great for mid war troops in mk5/6. I would leave mk2/3/4 for vets and elites

>>95919169
>cannon fodder by the older crusade vets
Was this the case even for the inductii that ate the brains of their predecessors?

>>95919203
it drove me insane that the ultramarines one just used the recon symbol because some guy who worked in the design studio didnt know what the symbols meant

>Inductii
Whats the difference between them and 40k muhreenz? You would think they would be doing it in the future to pump them out quick shit

>>95919261
>Whats the difference between them and 40k muhreenz?
Inductii are rapid-production space marines, quickly enhanced and trained. Plenty don't survive the modification or the training, or come out deformed and/or psychotic, and the ones that don't just aren't as good as the traditional ones.

>>95919261
Desperate times call for desperate measures.
At the time, the literal future of humanity and Terra was at immediate stake.

>>95919261
No difference, that's part of the story of the Imperium's decay. The modern space marine is hastily made version of a great crusade era space marine. (Primaris are not canon)

>>95919132
I like alternative markings so i like inductii

>>95919261
40k marines are the complete opposite, Chapters take a lot more time to train and indoctrinate them than Crusade era Legions did.
Example: It took more than 300 years for a guy like Dante to become a regular BA captain.

>>95919185
You enjoy Gachimuchi?
Do you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0og-u_1YKR4

>>95919282
Only some traitor inductii and maybe the IH ones. SoH or IW inductii were just basic bitch marines with a fresh black caparace
>>95919286
Wrong. See >>95919299
40k marines are the product of the post Heresy paranoia and are more heavily trained and indoctrinated. They just suffered from geneseed degradation in some cases (IF)

>>95919282
>>95919283
>>95919286
>>95919299
How rapid are we talking? I dont get the difference though because based on 40k (pic related) shit seems pretty quick to create a space marine
>takes about ~6 years to create one
>HH went for 7 years

>>95919068
The termies do have fists, but yes, to be fair they had to canonize something that barely had much material to go off when there's already uparmored, mobile, and discount Terminators, and have to figure out a niche for them. Granted, I think they could've kept the overhead gun to help reinforce it.

>>95919261
Inductii are treated differently between legions, but they are all hastily propped-up newbie marines that came at the cost of culture shock. They aren't just fighting the Heresy, but also the Long War.

>>95919315
Forgot pic

"These Marines were created during the Heresy itself. Rushed into production to meet the demands of war, they were fully commissioned warriors after only 4 years of training and modification. Though suboptimal to the carefully cultivated Space Marines of the Great Crusade, they were still formidable fighters and were utilized by both sides."

>>95919343
>Only after 4 years of training
> >>95919318 has minimum time from 10 - 15 years after completion
GW cant into math or I am retarded. Probably both

>>95919346
10 years old to 15/16 years old is not 15 years

>>95919318
>reminding me that primaris have springs in their legs
When is Belisarius going to get his HH model?

>>95919350
Im drunk so a bit silly; either way my consensus seems to be that space marines can be pumped out from 5 - 7 years for 40k. The inductii should be a minimum of 12 -18 months

>>95919166
"electro-swing and bodycam footage" is incredibly funny and cringe. I love when reality writes better jokes than any human could.

>>95919440
NTA but electro-swing is alright
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18JQUYgpOlw

While I'm aware they don't have any rules (yet), would it be feasible to have Wulfen as part of a Space Wolves army display board?

>>95919492
Many Space Wolves went wulfen during the battle of Prospero, but I'm not sure what the current fluff is for the 13th company.

>>95919492
>would it be feasible to have Wulfen as part of a Space Wolves army display board
Sure? What's stopping you exactly?

>>95919492
There was at least one instance of SW becoming Wulfen, see pic related. But they were even more of a dark secret than they're in 40k

>>95919492
Seems to have have been retconned a little but the original lore was Russ ordered the Wulfen heavy 13th company in to the portals to chase the Thousand Sons down.

I think Deathsworn are meant to be a bit of a halfway house

>>95917800
Very true very important they do revolver ocelot shit to draw.
>>95917811
Not sure I've ever seen a marine shooting a bolter left handed.

>>95919553
Besides the 13th, the Watch Pack sent to Corax became lost and turned into Wulfen. They were found by the defective Raptors (RG inductii) and ended badly.

>>95919571
Minis are rare, but they do exist

>>95919629
Phobos team is a more recent kit with lefties, too

Spoil Era of Ruin for me. I want to know how silly it gets.

>>95919144
Mostly and one

>>95919672
35 pages of Guilliman sitting at a desk writing the Codex Astartes with nothing but internal monologues and introspection on war and the place of Space Marines in the galaxy.
i'm lying but honestly i'd read that

>>95919779
I'd buy that in a heartbeat, that sounds *amazing*.

>>95919779
>"this tactic is perhaps my most ingenious. a contingent of astartes await in drop pods, called down to dynamically respond to enemy attacks with numerous simultaneous devastating defensive deep strikes..."
>"but what to name it?"
>takes sip of recaf
>"the astartes rain down from above in their drop pods... almost like a rain of steel..."
>"ah, roboute, you've outdone yourself!"

>>95919318
>secondary heart, haemastamen, and catalepsian node can be implanted at a maximum age that precludes getting later organs
>lymans ear has a typo in the name and the age, meaning you have to be a minimum of 114 to get the implant
Whoever wrote this is incompetent

>>95919829

>Cue that one page from the Blood Ravens comic that has two of them talking about how Boreale is a fine commander, despite the... impediment.

>>95919860

Clearly they mean that you can either have it when you're 1 year old, or 14 to 16 years old!

>>95919878
And don't forget poor Jonah Orion and his overactive Melanchromic Organ.

>>95919779
There's already a short story about the codex astartes from like a decade ago

Postan models. I like my new Centurion. Post something you've done lately that you like.

All these people building massive amounts of centurions are gonna be really disappointed if it turns out having 2-3 HQ is still the most optimal, lmao

>>95919953
My current hobby project
>>95919984
Jokes on you, I build this many characters anyways

>>95920000
Nice digits

>Plastic iron bullock pattern jetbikes never
Why even live...

>>95919984
No because you still need 20 different versions of the same guy with different wargear anyway.

Now just pinwashing with enamel and blood left to do
My first Leviathan

>>95920031
Based.

>>95919779
We did get a bit of his less super serious side in one of the 40k novels, after he got resurrected and was frustrated at how he couldn't pick up paper that fell of his desk
So if it would be anything like that,that would be great

>>95919984
Shut up nomodels

>>95919953
Started working on my pistol-armed Prosecutors, since GW seems to refuse to restock the actual upgrade kit I had to find a different solution.
As such, instead of dual pistols I went for pistol & dagger. Plus hand-flamer and plasma pistol on the Mistress.

I really hope multiple units can use the same transport this edition. I just want my despoiler+command squad assault-bus spartan

>>95919144
Right now I'm going through the Eisenhorn audio books and again through various REH stories, chiefly Conan. I think I've hit my limit on HH books, they are increasingly boring. I was surprised I like Descent of Angels, but the follow up is unbearable.

>>95920107
I liked Descent of Angels, had an interesting look at Caliban before the Imperium arrived.

So I got 9 Daemon brutes for my Esoterist to summon, but I have no idea what colours to choose
Digits will decide colour combination

>>95920178
Forgot to attach them, oops

>>95920178
Pink and blue.

>>95919112
Probably, I'm just going to likely paint a squad up anyway just for flavour. I'll be pissed if they get rid of shattered legion rules though since I actually want to run an army of them
>just include one of them as an allied detachment
It's not the same dammit

>>95919261
Indictii went through an accelerated growth and training, producing full marines in a year. This increased the failure rate and left a lot of the indoctrination lacking. In the Beta Garmon book they place some of the blame for the Heresy on the growing use of Inductii being less stable. 40k marines take up to a decade to produce.

>>95920178
Purple and orange.

>>95920262
If you aren't asking yourself that whilst making a loyalist army, you're doing Warhammer wrong.

What book had Inductii lore again? I forgot

If the box doesn't release soon they're going to lose a huge chunk of their customer base

>>95920296
>Beta Garmon
Beta Garmon

>>95919672
Interior illustrations. Spoilered because it's only good manners.

>>95920301
Thank you beta garmon

>>95920299
>implying they already didn't with femstodes

>>95920314
Need a ride?

>>95920301
wait what no inductii in that book

>>95920314
>put a pariah among the troops
It's important to keep the moral down.

>>95920324
la siege du cthonie

>>95920324
Could've been The Siege of Cthonia.

>>95920330
>>95920335
yes SoC correct

Why wait for a starter box?

>>95920299
I almost want to get some Saturnine and turn them back into Saturnyne exo-suits. Maybe use as SA Ogryns.

>>95920350
feels good man

>>95919202
We already know they aren't, the preview video had examples of "no model - use this model with this bit to represent it" like The Old World does.

>>95920328
Do we find out what happened to Barthusa Narek?

>>95920385
Frieza destroyed him, but he got wished back by the Dragon Balls.

>>95919261
Inductii are accelerated marine creation process, it's messy but create what you can call marine in quick time. Some don't even get training but instead flash-indoctrination wiring basics of combat directly to their brains, before being send to meatgrinder, or like IF they get simplified training of defence only. Inductii can be made under 1 year or even faster. Some legions treated their indictii better and some like cannon fodder.
40k marines each is made and tested thoroughly, he have to prove himself, train combat every day, he have to be the best, it's custom job, it take years to make aspirant into marines, almost decade in some cases. Chapter only have 1000 warriors and they are split between diferent task forces, so you want your limited guy to be the best possible.

In other words Inductii are wartime production, low quality but fast and provide stuff in rugged but working condition, if you don't have some part at hand then bad luck for this specific piece. 40k marines are each custom job made by artisan it take time but effect is well worth it and better than mass produced crap.

40k marine chapters are each fully independant brotherhood of 1000 warriors, price for independance is strickly adheering to chapter limit and if chapter gets fucked up because something destroys their homeworld they are on their own.

>>95919860
It's bad copy-paste and addition of primaris organs to WD article from 1988, start of rogue trader. Somehow GW never changed original 1988 space marine organ ages charts despite changing everything else about them.

>>95920328
post book ples

>>95919860
>Ideal age of implantation
Did you miss that part? You can even implant adults, if you wish, but it's less than ideal and will result in higher chance of something going wrong. The adult followers of the primarchs that underwent the process suffered lots of losses.

era of ruin(audio)


SLASHfileSLASH3qY3SThQ#jfKTm4roG-pj28LxgeuoH1z7JjDku9Tw56GCKd9zBYg

>>95920385
Naruek is on a path guided by his Fulgurite to kill Lorgar
He stumbles on Fabius and fights what seems to be a clone of Fulgrim
He gets ambushed by Erebus, who stabs him with a cursed blade. Erebus manipulated him to this spot to stop him from interfering. A dark King will rise and Erebus will ensure that happens.
A dying Naruk hears the daemons arguing over which one would claim his soul. Amidst the daemonic voices, a new, faint voice is heard. This voice gets louder. Naruk tightens his hold on the Fulgurite and he feels a warmth set on him.

>>95920469
Mega NZ?

>>95920506
won't know unless you try

>got a AoD box out of fomo reasons last year
>haven't opened it yet
>still mildly tempted to get the Saturnine box too
>but the pricing probably isn't that distant from a resin printer (minus all the other shit)

Do I just go with collecting a plastic legion or sell an unopened box and proont out? Seems easy enough to collect STLs but I imagine printing is still easier said than done.

>>95920509
file not found
Dont spoonfeed me im retarded

>>95920469
What about epub?

a brass scorpion is calling to me like the green goblin mask

>>95920514
All I'll say is that it works on my machine.

>>95920516
nothing as of yet i'm afraid

>>95920211
Huh,I guess it's not too bad because orange fluo will make cool veins

>>95920520
Dont worry I was on Mega.IO instead of Mega.nz got it now spank you berry much anonp/spoiler]

>>95920476
If the Emperor is no longer the Dark King, then who?

>>95919953
Nice axe. I since swapped his combi melta because I thought the mech array was plasma and flamer. Whoops might be confusing other 40k editions.

>>95919984
I'm going to have different lists for different themes as well as zone Mortalis. Plenty of uses of various characters.

what is (You)r estimate as to the % of all legionaries killed by the end of the siege?

>>95920534
me

>>95920544
Small number treated as big number.

>>95920544
69,420%

>>95920350
God this looks even worse than the actual versions.

>>95920544
>>95920554
>The death toll was staggering. An incredible number of bodies were visible across the battlefield. The sheer amount of casualties made it the bloodiest was ever fought. In the end, more than ten thousand legionaries and over a million humans lost their lives in the siege.

>>95920544
Of al legionnaires ever made? Pretty significant, easiñy 50% at least. Are you including the purged legions? Because that's pretty much a free 10% already

>>95919203
I was going to put all my Inductii into MkII and III under the auspices that they were the new kids getting the old hand-me-downs.
Alas, playing EC, their lore says they doted on their Inductii and made sure they got the best treatment they could give them.

>>95920544
Biggest we ever saw, I would say about tree fiddy.

>>95920299
I see now why GW put that eagle on the chest plate, because it looks likes ass without any details on it.

>>95920544
Loyalists? 100%. Traitors? Depends on your definition of killed.

Anyone got a Era of Ruin PDF?

>>95920299
Bro wtf did you to the gun, why is it so small. Did you print it wrong?

>>95920595
It's cold

is big G space cincinnatus ? he want nothing more that to cultivate brassicae on his parch of land.
if so, based as hell

>>95920579
Is this a joke? That's essentially a battle on the eastern front during ww2 or any of the larger battles during the great war.

>>95920589
make your own details

>>95920614
Yes anon it's a joke. The point is that GW often makes wrong numbers like that, treating them as staggeringly high while instead being ridiculously low. Like the Siege of Vraks, a planetary siege that lasted 17 years while being described as incredibly grueling trench war that had a grand total of 22 millions of deaths.

>>95920544
To paraphrase The End and The Death 3, enough Marines died that they could not longer function in general military operations by themselves and had to be converted to special operations teams.

>>95920613
He's a traitor who established a second imperium and almost got away with it if not for actual loyal Primarchs deciding nah.

>>95920072
I made a whole squad of dual plasma pistols as an HQ retinue and I feel it's all wasted now

>>95920661
something something "the emperor is dead, long live the emperor"

>>95920619
Instructions unclear.
My painting skills aren't found.
:(
Seriously though that's a good paintjob anon. You ought to be proud if you somehow aren't.

>>95920653
>Like the Siege of Vraks, a planetary siege that lasted 17 years while being described as incredibly grueling trench war that had a grand total of 22 millions of deaths.
To be fair that's really big numbers if you consider that Vraks was just citadel with military storage and no much else on entire planet. 22 million dead including 14 mil Imperial Guard was just to take single fortress and not war on planetary scale. Total population of Vraks was in 8 million just to keep storage facilities and fortifications operational, because planet had no economy.

>>95920660
>To paraphrase The End and The Death 3, enough Marines died that they could not longer function in general military operations by themselves and had to be converted to special operations teams.

>spend entire heresy making sure you can pump more and more marines quicker
>opening battles of heresy saw 3 legions destroyed or 100k dead in single day
>somehow now after decade of working for depleting numbers solutions losses got so bad you can't operate as working military
>despite scouring with complete galactic reconquest happening right after

>>95920685
It's still an incredibly low number for almost twenty years of gruelling war

>>95919144
>"I wish Saturnines can equip double fist and double plasma blasters"
Gimme

>>95920668
dual plasma moritats are a joke now. Blood Angels are going to be eating good with double inferno pistol

>>95918785
>Saturnine Tactical Dreadnought Armour should have been dreads

>>95920273
>>95920262
When did the loyalists got to add skulls to everything, though?
It is understandable for 40k's technosorcery, but 30k doesn't have the excuse of 10,000 years of stagnation

>>95920745
It's siege of single small city that killed entire planetary population 3 times, if it isn't grueling war then I don't know what to tell you.

>>95920794
The Emperor is Conan the barbarian (or more likely thulsa doom lol) anon. It's just his aesthetic.

>>95918976
why can't you ever post the unconverted models, or even the Mission Dreadnought models

>>95920676
i'm not proud of much, but my dwarfs are my proudest minis

>>95918785
>Saturnine TDA should have been dreads
They basically are. Theyre t6 and cost in the ballpark of a boxnought.

>>95920800
The Emperor demands bitches?

>>95916772
I know I'm in the wrong thread to bitch about this but I hope to fuck they don't bring BFG back in the Heresy Setting. I wanted to throw Gargants at Titans not play more fucking marine mirror matches.
Anyway I really liked how that Thousand Sons Saturnine dread looked in the last OP so I'm a touch more hopeful for my ashy niggas (cocoa butter applied edition).

>>95920797
Again, the war was a constant cycle of offensives described basically as the battle of the Somme except worse, it involved Titans, orbital bombardment , chaos demons and in the end it was half as deadly.

>>95920857
if it ever come back it's in a heresy setting, too niche otherwise (or everything will be in metal and out of order)

>>95920794
Skull is the 40k equivalent of a Christian cross
It symbolises Emperor's sacrifice and the whole memento mori

>>95920685
>specialist guard regiment managed 1:2 kill/death ratio against random miners using scavenged gear
>they were engaging in battle on their terms and in the field they specialize in
vraks is a comedy, not a tragedy

>>95920874
Oh you meant for 40k
Well in 30k memento mori still applies

>>95920794
I liked Alfabusa's explanation of how it's meant to represent the beauty of humanity, even at its rawest.
I almost typed markdown spoilers to praise ItEhaTTSD I'm fucking slipping boys

I wonder if destroyers will be good in 3.0. Volley fire seems like a big win for them, and with dreads at ws4 (and legion elites harder to access than before) there should be less ws5 for them to crumble against.

>>95920874
Nah Aquila is not the skull

Done

>>95920769
Hope I can still dual chem pistols in DG.

>>95921018
Nice, no WE model is complete without being covered in gore.

>>95920865
>as the battle of the Somme except worse, it involved Titans, orbital bombardment
First decade of siege was just boring methodical work by DKoK that mostly happened offscreen with single guest appirance from Dark Angels 8 years in the siege. Legio Astorum fielded total of 22 scout and reaver battle titans on imperial side and 14+ on chaos side.
Still Imperium lost 2 times population of Vraks in guardsmen, despite not entire population of Vraks serving in combat.
Also
>muh Somme
might I remind you that in almost 5 months of Somme only aprox 310k died and in 10 months of Verdun 306k died on all sides British, French and German. Even both this battles combined don't reach 1 million killed on each side.
>>95920876
It's good K:D ration considering they were on offensive and CSM with traitor titans and daemons happened during siege. Trench warfare just sucks and assaulting fortified position always ends in heavy lossess.

>>95921057
>and CSM with traitor titans and daemons happened during siege.
As opposed to the loyalist marines and superheavies that happened during the siege.

Its a pathetic K:D in any circumstance, let alone against untrained and undisciplined "militia" that are really just "random miners and penal conscripts given an autogun if theyre lucky"

>>95921069
Its also worth remembering that CSM only happened because the DKOK were so bad at their job that the alpha legion noticed an opportunity to mess with the imperium and got involved in a very minor role, and then the DKOK dragged their feet long enough for even more chaos marines to get involved

>>95921055
Funnily enough,I learned lattice embossing in Blender just get the logo on properly

>>95921024
Same fellow DG bro

>>95921069
I feel like you don't understand the concept of a siege lol, the attacker always takes more casualties than the defender, thats basic military logic. If anything a rough two to one k/d ratio attacking into an ultra-fortified position like the vraks citadel is a demonstration of the krieg regiments' skill at siege warfare and/or GW being shit with numbers, especially with the endless passages of krieg troops getting gunned down by defensive fire in the vraks trilogy. IIRC in most modern militaries the doctrine for attacking an entrenched position is to have like a 3 to 1 advantage in manpower before going in.

>>95920619
Join the nail stamp brotherhood
let you worries melt away

>>95921124
dont tell a talented artist to start using stickers:(

>>95920619
I wish I didn't suck at freehanding, can't even draw straight lines

>>95921131
Oops, I meant to reply to >>95920676

>>95921057
>Still Imperium lost 2 times population of Vraks in guardsmen, despite not entire population of Vraks serving in combat

That's absolutely an embarrassing kill death ratio sure, but again, it's ridiculously low for the kind of war that is being depicted.

>>95921146
also meant for this one to reply to your own post huh..lol

>>95921057
I don't know Vraks, but how the fuck do you have 20 Titans and can't manage to blow out a small town

Lorgar, Erebus and Kor Phaeron
No one in this picture ever did anything wrong

>>95921069
The Vrak militia had stockpiles of tanks and such, like Malcadors in hidden vaults. Also chaos and frenzon is one hell of a drug

>>95921177
>The Vrak militia had stockpiles of tanks and such
Which doesent change that most of the vraks militia were armed like absolute shit.

>>95921069
>As opposed to the loyalist marines
Loyalist marines happened 3 times, 1 time Dark Angels deployed, went into AL ambush, lost half of their strike force, took out space port and left, second time Red Scorpions company was deployed to take breach that guard could not, they took the breach and left and third time was in final year when inquisition took command, they called in Red Scorpions, Red Hunters, Grey Knight and in final battle Angels of Absolution or other DA successor. But for most of siege marines weren't there.
Unlike CSM who appeared after 10 years(not counting previous AL ambush) and made themselves at home, DKoK faced CSM alone for years.
>>95921081
>alpha legion noticed an opportunity to mess with the imperium and got involved in a very minor role
Anon entire thing was Alpha Legion operation, Cardinal was corrupted by AL operative, who later gave himself to Nurgle. AL was there since day one and stayed there untill end.
Entire timetable was turned tits up when CSM came.

>>95921187
>Anon entire thing was Alpha Legion operation
It wasnt. Xaphan was just an idiot and mammon was just power hungry in the most mundane way. The AL only got involved like 7 years in when they saw what a gaping wound for the imperium the whole fiasco was, the chaos corruption of xaphan and mammon came much later than that still.

>>95921164
I assume they had void shields and enemy titans

>>95921151
>That's absolutely an embarrassing kill death ratio sure
We are talking of fortress built to withstand orbital bombardment and siege, with enough artillery guns, shells, tanks including superheavies to equip tens of regiments, that had year to prepare for siege. Taking it was going to take long time and take million dead guardsmen and was calculated to take 12 years.
It isn't ridiculusly low, imperial guard lost 2 times population of planet they were trying to conquer. You are just as bad with numbers as GW usually is.
>>95921164
Said small town was fortress build to withstand orbital bombardment and had it's own titans when Chaos came, as matter of fact imperial titans showed up to counter chaos titans and destroyed 14 while losing 9.

why do the legions have 'sergeants' in squads when all of the other ranks are roman themed things like centurion/praetor/decurion etc? shouldn't they be called 'legionary primus' or something like that?
just seems like a weird aesthetic inconsistency

>>95921338
sergeantus

>>95921338
The rank you're looking for is decanus, the dude in charge of each 10-man contubernium, which were the building blocks of the cohorts.

>>95921338
Because 40k marines have squad that is led by sergant. 40k had sergant on squad level, captain on company level, chapter master and then librarians, chaplains, apothecaries and tech-marines. Heresy is build on that as marine vs marine game.
Legions have all of 40k marine officer and unit variants + brand new officers with latin or normal names like master of signals or siege breaker.
Also 30k use Praetors instead of captain/chapter master because it have to be universal term for captain, chapter master, wolf lord, khan, lord commander and other legion specific titles for same position. Same with centurion, that is just collective term for line officer of legion.

>>95916203 (OP)
>My IW v his WE
Tried out a new list to prepare for an event, got fucking pasted because I'm still dogshit at deployment

Fuck me. I am reading Era of Ruin.
Each fucking story is more depressing than the last. Who wants to read stuff like that?

>>95921479
Anon do you know what Horus Heresy is about?

>>95921491
A story where the bad guys lost. The book I am reading should be the victory lap.

>>95921338
because they have squads

next you'll be asking why they have squads when they don't form infantry squares

>>95918727
that's because you still prime in Black in 2025

>>95921479
hit me up with the pdf please

>>95921479
What else did you expect.

>>95921513
Anon it's borther kills brother war, it ends with father killing his son, and then dying himself in arms of his other son.
There is no happy ending.

I wonder if Autocannons will be gutted or not.
Staring at my Iron Havocs in concern.

>>95921170

Based fellow Chaos enthusiast. Bear the word in 3rd edition for me, brother, I don't know if I can stomach these rules...

>Vrask was just a small fortress in size, the death rate is low because of how little the theater of war was
>But it was an impenetrable fortress of doom, built to withstand incredible sieges and bombardments, with Titan and Chaos Space Marine support to justify incredible hardships to conquer it
>But the Death Korps were good enough to keep a kill/death ration incredibly low
>Despite endless passages of them getting massacred by the defenders
>But the whole war despite being extremely localized was big enough to be a festering wound in the side of the Imperium and attract Chaos Space Marines, with the whole world being filled of infections, death and biological weapons so much that Nurgle took notice of it and wanted it to become a Demon world
>But again the theater of war was just a small city with the whole planet population limited to a single citadel

I am getting contrasting messages

>>95921120
>in most modern militaries the doctrine for attacking an entrenched position is to have like a 3 to 1 advantage in manpower before going in.
Did that ever happen? The Imperium sent 14 million, but the defenders were 8 million. That's less than half the ideal
>Inb4 "8 mil people ≠ 8 mil defenders"
Vraks barely had any economy, or civilians. It was basically all military storage. Essentially 7.5 million PDF.
Not full guardsmen, but not "2/3 are women or children" either. And in some imperial planets, women and children are trained to PDF standard – just look at Cadia or Catachan.
>The forts are titan-proof
I guess that's the imperial standard + the Survivor's fallacy: the only forts standing today are the ones that were hardy enough

>>95921513
Anon, even outside all the who was in the right or wrong discussion, everybody lost at the end of the HH. Every side and faction had suffered devastating losses of lives, material, and knowledge. Irreplaceable assets lost. After this, everyone was doomed to struggle and fail to maintain what they have, a shadow of what had been, never achieving the same level of advancement, power and influence ever again. There are no winners in the HH.

>>95921412
"Sergeant" and "squad" is low gothic. Decanus and Contubernium is high gothic. Lol :^)

>>95921513
The less worse guy won over the much worse guy.

>>95921453
>IW looks like they were just in a mud fight
Anon commits to the character

>>95921548
Is it even possible for them to get worse?
They'll be the exact same statline. but go down to 1 shot with Heavy (FP). The dream is for them to go to 2 damage.

>>95921548
>Looks at the ranged weapons we already know about
It's so over.

>>95920308
>>95920314
>>95920322
man i fuckin adore this style of heresy art

>>95921702
FP 1 Str 7 AP 4 D 1 Heavy (FP) :^)

>>95921660
Yet the Imperium is suppossed to have a Golden Age between M33-35, AKA "The Forging"

>>95921704
Well the lascannons are still good if you stay put

>>95921647
>Vraks barely had any economy, or civilians
Its population were miners, depo workers and pilgrims. Its not a fortress world with a martial culture.

>>95921643
I think both can be true -> >>95921647
It was basically one very fortified city, besieged by a regiment that wasn't as numerous as doctrine stated (because budget), so they had to carry the day with their specialization and sheer grit. Fighting a planetary defense force all concentrated on a titan-resistant fortress, with enough war materiel to supply a subsector.
A fight that size attracted all sorts of war vultures looking for a piece of the action, or to further their own agenda.
All for one city, on one planet, out of so many out there the High Lords cannot notice them all. Warhammer 40k.

>>95921724
Tradies are the best man

>>95921722
Better than how things were during the Scouring for sure, but there wasn't the same level of technological innovation for example.

>>95921513
>the bad guys lost
Anon the previous book ended with Horus beating the emperor to a pulp before losing when he realizes what he has become in one final moment of lucidity. The emperor then dies.
The imperium didn't so much "win" the heresy as survive it, and even then, the damage is essentially lethal. From that point on, the terminal decline is inevitable; you are on the long and steady course to the dying wreck that is the 41st millennium's imperium.

>>95921723
And don't get hit with anything that can cause status effects (pinning etc. also means the unit can never count as stationary)

>>95921724
It was the military base of a cardinal who was all about waging a war of faith, sitting on a pile of military surplus big enough to supply the subsector, on a planet whose entire society was dedicated to guard said stockpile.
You could pretty much assume everyone was almost Cadian standard.

>>95921730
>besieged by a regiment that wasn't as numerous as doctrine stated (because budget)
And they still outnumbered the defenses 2:1 or more. Which really puts krieg doctrine in a rather bad light.

>>95921754
Very true.
However, what is also true is that "the side with Konrad Curze and Erebus didn't win", and that will have to do.

>>95921765
No you fucking couldnt, are you retarded? Yes, some random cardinal decided he wanted his own personal army and kingdom and went out to turn vraks into his personal domain. This does not then mean the random pilgrims, miners and prisoners he managed to get to follow him were militarily capable, or that he had the knowledge to make them so.
Cadia is a word whos entire purpose is to throw bodies at chaos to make sure chaos doesent go any further, they have been doing this for thousands of years with their supply being one of the highest priorities in the imperium. Vraks was a dead-end depo on a world whos main population was involved in low grade mining operations. The two are in no way comparable.

Munitorum depo guards or ecclesiastic pilgrims are not comparable to thousands of years of martial culture and history. Some 12yo cadian has had more training than half the vraks population combined.

>the emperor is a highrider
refute this

>>95921821
NTA but I think anon meant they were equipped to a cadian standard (due to all the munitions laying around), not trained to one.

>>95921823
It's a shame Angron was too much of a pussy to do anything about it pre-heresy.

>>95921855
The book explicitly shows this isnt the case. The militia was better armed than it should have been (because vraks was a depo world) but it was still ultimately poorly equipped, with basic things like body armor or proper weapons being limited to the cardinals elite fighters and most members forced to rely on makeshift equipment. Hell, theres a reason they use autoguns rather than the imperium standard lasgun.

The rebels were outnumbered and outgunned, the only thing they had going for them was the fact that they were on defense and the imperium couldnt pound them from orbit.

>>95921861
>bide his time and throw his weight in with eight other legions when the opportunity inevitably arose (as he knew it would, such is that which befalls all tyrants)
nuthin personnel kiddo,,,,,

>>95921770
And they should have needed 3:1, yet they won regardless :D

>>95921894
>yet they won regardless
Thanks to the intervention of the space marines.

>>95921647
>Did that ever happen? The Imperium sent 14 million, but the defenders were 8 million. That's less than half the ideal
14 million guardsmen DIED taking Vraks, many more were deployed and rotated during siege.
Also most vraks population was either menial workers or administratum clerks. It was fortified storage.

>>95921892
>Bide his time
>Fucking Angron
The absolute cope lmao

>>95921821
>Vraks was a dead-end depo on a world whos main population was involved in low grade mining operations
Wasn't their life duty to guard the Emperor's Munitions for the incoming war? I really don't remember :(
Say, IF that's what the population had been like (Gun Guardians instead of mere miners), I think that would work with the numbers given

>>95921954
bro plotted and prepared for an uprecedented slave revolt for years on end, bro

>>95921948
>14 million guardsmen DIED taking Vraks, many more were deployed and rotated during siege.
>Also most vraks population was either menial workers or administratum clerks
Bro FUCK there's no saving that thing as is.
What would Reasonable Numbers look like, then?

>>95921643
It was small planet with only single facility that was fortified citadel with large weapon storage.
Having weapon storage filled with tanks and equipment in hands of renegades in proximity to Cadian Gate was unaxeptable to Imperium, while Chaos Marines liked idea of having fortress full of warmachines they could steal from Imperium.
Imperial lossess are high but not that bad considering what they went against(army in fortress with support of titan legion and traitor marines and daemons).
This is why 22 million(14 guard +8 Vraks population) deathtoll in 18 years is resonable, because of limited scale of conflict.

I fear Legions not getting rules for their old vehicles in HH3

>>95922006
You shouldn't worry, Anon. It'll be even worse than you think, making your worrying both pointless and inaccurate.

>>95921959
>>95921959
>Wasn't their life duty to guard the Emperor's Munitions for the incoming war?
"yes".
Vraks was an imperial arms depot of little immediate significance. But it was deemed "maybe necessary at some point in the future", hence the war to recover it.
There WERE auxilia forces there to guard the world (and pdf obviously), but because its a supply depot rather than an active warzone or some world of particular strategic import they were poorly trained and equipped relative to regular frontline forces.
Imperial depots are not elite postings.

The entire rebellion sort of hinged on that (vraks being relatively undefended and unimportant), its how xaphan was able to seize the world. Had it been a big military base he would have simply been defeated by the local defenders, but instead his mob of zealots was able to seize the equipment on the planet.

>>95921765
It was fortified military storage that had small pdf that was not enough to mann all defences.
It's main population consisted of menial workers and some pilgrims because there was shrine. Planet had weak military presence, it was place where guard regiments were dropped, equipped and send to galaxy.
Rebelion happened because of bothed assassination of cardinal corrupted by Alpha Legion, said cardinal used his position of religious leader and assassination attempt to take over the planet and prepare for "heretics to strike at him".

What's the new org chart ?

How many heavy support equivalent do we get per HQ ?

>>95922044
We have estimates of defening forces when CSM arrived, so decade into siege.
Numbers are as following:
>50k Disciples of Xaphan(cardinal's elite guard)
>garrison auxillia 10k
>PDF 500k
>labour corps 1,5 million
>militia 1,5 million
>frateris militia 250k
>other vraksian renegades 1 million
Then CSM got 500k of their own mutants, renegades and traitor guard.
But as you pointed out Vraks wasn't well protected and had no significant military presence.

>>95922183
What qualifies as heavy support is now in different cstagoried.
A basic centurion would give you 2 dreads but 6 tanks, for example.

>>95922194
>See this
>Less than Current day China

Lmao, britbong can't into numbers.

>>95922216
so we will get specific force orgs for each races then.

No way Custodes could get this much out of 1 HQ.

>>95922227
>lets compare fortified warehouse
>with one of largest and most powerfull countries on industrial world
You would have point if it was about hive city, not planet with single amazon warehouse.

>>95922253
All custodes need is that special rule which provides additional auxillary detachments. A shield captain could then allow 3 or even 4 detachments.

>>95922183
What army would Hitler have played? SoH?

>>95922183
>How many heavy support equivalent do we get per HQ ?
"heavy support" as a catchall doesent exist. Dreads, tanks, land raiders and HSS are now in different categories of their own. You can get two of these detachments per (non-consul) centurion, or one per otherwise.

>>95922194
>mutants
Ehm they are called unique special individuals you bigot

>>95921963
"grrr I hate the Emperor!"
>Does nothing about it
"He's a slaving bastard!"
>Obediently follows every order
"Oof ouch owie these Librarians hurt me"
>Leaves them alone and waits for them die of natural causes
>Only takes action against the Emperor when his older, better brother asks him too
Angron's a neat character, but he has terminal slave mindset. It's not his fault because it's probably something to do with the Nails and/or Primarch genealogy shit, but still. If Horus had never turned, Angron would've just brooded until the Nails finally killed him.

>>95922216
The centurion caddy tax is so fucking gay

>>95922286
He insisted his close friends call him Wolf at private functions and also called his command bunker thing the Wolfsschanze. He'd absolutely be an SW player.

>>95922298
His mind literally got raped when he got the butchers nails against his will. Fuck the high riders and their abuse.

>>95922308
I kind of agree but I see what they were going for and except for the most schizophrenic of lists i.e. mine most people won't change much besides adding an extra centurion or demoting a consul.

anyone got the era of ruin epub or pdf?

Sooo, leaker anon post anything new yet?

>>95922367
>>95922405
Go buy some pudding if you wanna be spoonfed

>>95922311
Luna Wolves or SW then

>>95922423
please?

>>95922331
I can't see what they're going for, I want the old list back.
>>95922405
He got busted and got beaten with measuring sticks from starter sets.

>>95922367
https://gofile.io/d/cPfhGM

The ADB story has portrays the impact of Magnus bursting out of the Webway to warn the Emperor.
It's hilarious. The Emperor watching his hopes die and is screaming frantically to the Custodes pushback the daemons and save his dream.

>>95922442
thanks, you're a great friend

>>95922442
Based anon, thanks

>>95922442
Bless

>>95922442
>>95922477
>>95922493
How dare you? Don't you know that piracy hurts us all? The authors need to be paid too.

>>95922471
Magnus folly they called it.

>>95922286
He was into esoteric bullshit and believed he is possessed by aryan spirit but also was very much into wolves, his fortress was Wolf's Lair his hq on eastern fron was Werwolf and he liked when his friends called him Wolf.
So I would say Space Wolves, but he wouldn't drink, because he was abstinent and vegetarian.
Luna Wolves SoH would be his second choice.

>>95922326
Angron is a bitch and will always remain a bitch for the simple reason that he murdered a bunch of his own guys repeatedly, in increasing numbers each time.
Even that giant man-baby Perty only did one decimation, Angron was obviously destined for Khorne because he was perma-pmsing and taking it out on everything around him and ruined a perfectly good legion in the doing.
10k years of enslavement and chaos no-no touching is too good for him

>>95922442
Pdf pls?

>>95922227
>this poorly defended critical infrastructure means the writing is bad, not that the Imperium isn't all that secure and nobody's really in charge of critical infrastructure

OK

>>95922044
a new IA book with Guilliman or Jonson taking on a place like this, having seen the listings of what it's got vs what's defending it, and getting into a protracted war with some undeclared petty empire within the Imperium would be good

instead the whatever Crusade it's called is just one Major Factions Soup after another, every edition, with occasional bits of fun stuff like the Tau discovering warp travel Isn't Fun After All and the dorfs coming back, but significantly more Tory than before

>>95922513
We have been over this.
Laurie Goulding said that Angron represents mental illness and how it affects the self and others around the mentally unwell.

>>95922511
Fuck forgot my pic.
Anyway Mussolini just wanted to rebuilt glory of Roman Empire, then his main ally was complete schizo who was into astrology or some shit.

>>95922536
just convert it yourself, there are online converters that do the job.

>>95922471
It's funnier that not only did Magus break daddy's project but he also didn't warn him and just slunk away like a naughty child and then had a temper tantrum that decimated 2 loyal legions and he did all this in lieu of just like sending a runner on a fast ship. Like the foresight project worked he got the vision and knew what was gonna happen and fucked up the voicemail but didn't think of sending a letter in the amount of time it took for the Big E to recall an entire legion and organize, authorize, and deploy a subjugation force which included the most secretive and limited military organization in the Imperium after the assassins. Like Ahriman on a destroyer with a signed affidavit and the problem would have been solved minus the warp breach on Terra.

>>95922507
So you are telling me that by downloading and sharing this file I'm taking money away from BL writters?

>>95922570
I'll look into it

They confirmed in this new book that female Custodes exist.
It's over, guys.

>>95922634
If we just ignore black library books as usuall and only stick to black books and 2.0 books then we're fine.
Also was it ADB?

>>95922634
Reminder that BL is not canon

>>95922634
Simply ignore non-canon events, retard

>>95922555
Goulding is a faggot and being mentally ill does not excuse Angron being the biggest dipshit in the galaxy.

>>95921754
Fuck End and Death what a stupid fucking book. I'll always hold "Emperor slays his son after witnessing his callous destruction of a simple guardsman." in my heart. Hundreds of pages of a dry, unimaginative hack trying to paint psychedelic pictures but utterly failing. I'm so fucking glad I never bothered to read a BL book after skimming that garbage

>>95922634
Lol.
So either that one retcon is irrelevant because you have a fifty bazillion book series that doesn't mention it or the fifty bazillion bool series is no longer relevant because nobody mentions it.

>>95922634
Unless you have ten thousand individually modelled custards, how does this affect you in the least you fuckin drama queen?

>>95922692
>Emperor slays his son after witnessing his callous destruction of a simple guardsman
But that never was the case.
Muh ollanus pius was reddit meme. Not single description of final confrontation had normal human be anywhere near of Emperor or Horus, it was either Imperial Fist Terminator or Custodian.

>>95922634
Still not true, never accept GW's gaslighting to please their Blackrock and Vanguard shareholders. Fuck off Woke.

>>95922634
Shut up bullshitter.
In fact it's the opposite: Diocletian story shows him mourning the loss of the SoS, including his own friend that died when Magnus broke the webway seals.
The tale actually reinforces that SoS were the only women in the Talons of the Emperor. So it was clearly written before the 40k femstodes fiasco.

Why the fuck retards feel the need to make up shit that never happened to be angry about?

>>95922513
Perty did not have the nails. You just don't get it.

>>95922634
Thanks for the warning, I'll not be buying that shit.

>>95922692
One, it was disrespectful for Chaos fans the notion that the combined vessel of the Chaos Gods' power was only winning because the Emperor was holding back. In the new version, where the Emperor was fighting with his 100% and still losing is vastly better and does justice for both sides of the fanbase.
Secondly, Dan Abnett wanted to subvert expectations by having the "True events" happen differently than what was in the lore before (which was revealed now to have been lies and propraganda)

>>95922739
Find me a single time that the Custodes referred to the SoS as their kin and sisters.

>>95922753
Bro, they had a shadow realm Yu Gi Oh duel. It was dumb.

>>95922764
Shut the fuck up, you have nothing. There's no mention of female Custodes in Diocletian's story. All "sisters" are clearly a reference to SoS, which are one of the two main points of the narrative.

>>95922771
Their duel played out as hundreds or thousands of metaphorical battles across time and space. The card game was just one of them. It's very kino.

>>95922783
Lies.
Custodes never referred to SoS as their "sisters". They don't see them as equals.

>>95922692
It being split into 3 books was also completely unnecessary. The latter half of book 1 and most of book 2 was nothing but stories in holding patterns until that one plot line was finally moving on. It could easily have been condensed to two books, maybe even one. The DA defending the Astronomican was the worst, nothing but mediocre fighting until Typhus finally shows up... only to have him fuck off immediately.

>>95922795
>Sisters of Silence
>"No one ever called them sister(s)"
Anon, you are sounding incredible retarded right now.

>>95922753
>truth behind event
>it's just recton
There is no propaganda considering heresy, because heresy isn't public knowledge, as far as imperial citizen is concerned no Primarch ever betrayed Emperor, we had inquisitor in Imperial Palace seeing fresco of 18 primarchs and he only recognized 9 of them wondering who other 9 are, when Angron assaulted Armageddon, GK and Inquisition purged entire population of planet and even Segmentum Solar high command because they didn't want to risk knowledge that one of Emperor's primarchs might have turned traitor or daemon and just sentenced to death every non marine who ever heard name Angron or was on same planet as he.
In Imperial propaganda Chaos don't really exist and knowledge that daemons exist is enough to warrant death sentence.

>>95922822
"My brothers and sisters"
Context.

>>95922771
>ignorant zoomer sees a magic card duel as a copy of some anime shit
For all their faults, BL authors steal from better sources

>>95922841
Sisters being SoS. The end.
Anything else is you being a shitstirrer. ADB doesn't mention a female custodes at all. In fact he reinforces the classic Talons gender split.

>>95922834
Bullshit. Everyone knows the story of Oll Pius. He is a saint of the Imperial Guard.
The Space Marines, such as the Blood Angels, also have a mythical story about Sang's fight with Horus.
The Siege of Terra and the 3 end volumes go out of their way show you how these myths were created and how they are false and are the works of propaganda

Do the WB still think The Emperor is a God? Lorgar wrote a whole bible about think, did he admit he was mistaken? Or is he like "nah he's still a god, it's just I worship these guys more"?

>>95922858
Email ADB and ask him now!

>>95922858
Rare ADB W.
Tell me it isn't also written in classic adb fashion, "no gods no masters" edgy protagonist with same story.

>>95922865
>Everyone knows the story of Oll Pius. He is a saint of the Imperial Guard
Sure find me source about him that isn't 1st or second edition caption under single picture.
>The Space Marines
You mean guys who have records of Heresy because they were there and who are completly independant from Imperium to a point where they have their own belief system independant of Ministorum?

>>95922806
>Brave *named character* makes a stand
>*Location 1* will not fall!
>Single-handedly kills 20 million marines
>Gets call that *location 2* is in trouble
>3 sections of other, mostly unrelated stories later
>Offhand mention of *location 1* being destroyed
>"It was an end, and perhaps also a death"

>>95922870
>Do the WB still think The Emperor is a God?
No. As matter of fact WB are now in super strong denial and are destroying every trace of Emperor's worship.
There is audiodrama where Lorgar finds hidden shrine to Emperor on freshly conquered world, he is beyond pissed.
So where WB and Lorgar stand false Emperor is not a God and is not worsth worshiping, unlike Chaos Gods.
It's alpha wolf situation but in space.

>>95922900
>Sure find me source about him that isn't 1st or second edition caption under single picture.
FFG Only Warh mentions him and has some player items that bear his artistic image.
>You mean guys who have records of Heresy because they were there and who are completly independant from Imperium to a point where they have their own belief system independant of Ministorum?
And the Inquisition.
Admech
And other higher up orgs.
They too fell victim to the propaganda.
I mean for fuck sake, not all Imperial cicilians are ignorant of the HH. IIRC, there was a world in the Imperium that turned the HH into a myth about the Emperor being betrayed by a Horse or something.

>>95922919
>It's alpha wolf situation but in space.

>>95922711
Well BL heresy is Reddit fiction so it'd fit right in. It's more compelling for the Emperor's humanity to be the reason he holds back against his son, and it's compelling for Chaos to erode Horus's humanity and lead to both the apex and nadir of his downfall. It's not compelling for Chaos to just give him a power up and then say "lol, we're about to win, but let's take out our own weapon right before he deals the killing blow because it's funny."
>>95922753
It's disrespectful for chaos fans that one corpse can stop the gods opening a warp rift on terra. It's disrespectful for chaos fans to not get their equal attention cake in the Guardsmen vs Orks conflict on Armageddon. Fuck Chaos fans, they're spoiled. And I play TSons.

>>95922914
no goddamn way it pulls this

>>95922940
It's not just a corpse. It's the most powerful psyker in the galaxy sitting of the most powerful and advanced psychic amplifer in the galaxy who, if you read the goddamn volumes you would know, is using the gods own powers against them especially in his wards to keep them out.

>>95922692
>"Emperor slays his son after witnessing his callous destruction of a simple guardsman
That was always propaganda anon

>>95922929
>And the Inquisition.
They mostly don't know about Heresy or fact that Primarchs went traitor. Some in upper circles of Malleus know.
>Admech
Independant guys who were there
>And other higher up orgs.
Beside Lords of Terra they don't. This is why after first war for Armageddon high command of Segmentum Solar was executed by commissars who then procceded to mind wipe themselves. Because it's that much of a secret.
There is official church narrative that there was big bad arch-traitor Horus who wasn't Primarch because primarchs are good guys and sons of Emperor, and he was killed by Emperor, but wounded the Emperor and Emperor later ascended upon Golden throne to watch over humanity.

>>95922940
>. It's more compelling for the Emperor's humanity to be the reason he holds back against his son
But he isnt human, hes a sociopathic galactic conqueror. The emperor holding back out of humanity only works if he isnt a giant monster.

>>95922940
>compelling
>disrespectful
you're full of brainrot and memelore bs

The Emperor cannot be the Emperor and be a weakling that hesitates out of sentimentality. That's just not how a 38000 years old inmmortal superman psyker and galatic tyrant behaves.

>>95922935
I was reffering to guy who came with "alpha wolf" theory by observing captive wolves, then regretting it because it wolves in nature don't behave that way(wolf pack is family unit consisting of parents and children) and spend rest of his life trying to undo "alpha wolf" theory.
But your also fits and is all time classic.

>>95919984
This centurion gambit is GW’s attempt to primaris lieutenantify the HH.

>>95923117
Anon they just made a whole string of consuls. Now they want to sell them.

>>95923117
Theres like 12 different consul types already anon.

This centurion thing is an attempt to give low level characters a place in the game mechanically, and tie things closer to the narrative of HH (which is always about such and such captain/commander/whoever doing stuff).

>>95923136
Consuls dont benefit from this, only normal centurions.

>>95922267
It says Vraks had about 5.5 million fighters, both soldiers and irregulars. That's pretty much the entire armies of the US, China and India combined. Plus the war materiel to match, since it's a planetary Ikea.
That's credible numbers, no?

>>95920769
Iron Hands Moritats got the shaft if no more Haywire extends to all grav weapons.

>>95923178
>Consuls dont benefit from this, only normal centurions.
we don't know, some consuls might have access to special detachments

>>95920704
>missing the part where huge numbers of those pumped out Marines were genetic abominations, psychos, or drooling retards
>missing the part where the centres of both government and manufacturing of your mega space Empire have all been utterly devestated by the war you just finished

>>95923297
and then you have stuff like the taros campaign

>>95923393
I'm expecting grav's niche to be high strength and damage for their range compared to melta as well as pinning + shock/pinning, but low AP, so they're good at damaging and disabling vehicles and pinning infantry but not a lot of actual damage vs infantry. Basic grav gun will probably be something like
>18" FP1 S7 AP4 D2, Pinning (1), Shock (Pinning), Heavy (D)

>>95920857
There are fanrules for Orks & Eldar in AT and they're at least as good as anything modern GW could shart out so A; why are you whinging you can't play Gargants, rather than using the countless options for models and the demonstrably extant available rules to just do it? and B; why would you assume the same thing wouldn't happen for Battlefleet Heresy?

This learned helplessness where things don't exist unless Corporate Daddy spoonfeeds them to you complete with "heeere comes the aeroplane nyeeeeeeooo" noises is fucking pathetic. I bet you fluff your wife's bull for her.

>>95923439
Anon you know you can't force people to play your homebrew right

>>95923455
not that anon, but bold of you to assume

>>95922562
>Eya Ia justa wanteda to butcher lotsa peoplesa anda rulea da wordla witha an irona fista, thena Ia finda outa I'ma allieda witha a crazy person!
Fuck off you guinea-apologist pizza munching shit.

>>95923297
>It says Vraks had about 5.5 million fighters, both soldiers and irregulars
Yes after they conscripted almost entire population of planet.
>That's pretty much the entire armies of the US, China and India combined
Because said countries aren't at war, that's just proffesional army during peace times, not war time with enforced conscription. Now look at number of soldiers in USA during WW2, or British Empire, or 3rd Reich, or I just do it for you, USA 16 millions, USSR 34 millions, Germany 18 million, China 14 million, Japan 6 million, Brits 10 million.
As you can see army size can get quite big when said army have to fight.

>>95923117
How new are you exactly?
Or perhaps you only played as non marines so far?

>>95923393
But with Shock inflicting statuses on walkers and vehicles and getting the same status twice makes you damage instead(on vehicles only), it might as well be haywire though

>>95923523
Mussolini wasn't a butcher, he just wanted to bring back roman empire, just like most big rulers during middle ages.
Hitler on other hand had entire plan to conquer everything east of Germany and exterminate most of population then enslave rest.
Pizza guy was just goofy totalitarian dictator who wasn't very bloodthirsty, and when compared to Hitler or Stalin look like saint.

>>95923455
>Without Corporate Daddy to force everyone to play the same thing WHAT AM I TO DOOOO?!?
You people are unironically the cuck husband off that sci-fi reddit cartoon, literal slime stuffed into a vaguely human-shaped sack of skin. Run your own group. Pair off with other people who want to play nonstandard stuff and agree to play each others'. Play your games at the local club or store to build interest.

Just stop being such a pussified loser and find some fucking agency. I play WEGD6 Star Wars every other weekend, a game that's over 30 years old that has to compete with a modern actively-supported Star Wars game. I play Mordheim every month with huge amounts of fan content included in the campaign. I got in seven games of the Starship Troopers miniatures game and four of the Babylon 5 game last year and I'm on course to beat that this year. The only thing stopping you playing whatever you want to play is your own spineless laziness.

>>95923117
HH had numerous consuls before Pr*maris lieutenants were even a glimmer in GW suits' eyes.

>>95923640
please don't project your cuck fantasies unto others in the thread, thanks.

>>95923117
newness speaks

>>95923626
>Mussolini wasn't a butcher
*statement does not include desire to butcher socialists, communists, republicans/royalists depending on mood at the time, gays, Romani, anyone who disagreed with him, Greeks, Ethiopians, and basically everyone else Hitler did except Jews who he was ambivalent about.

>>95923668
>no answer
Yup, corpocuck.

>>95923678
>Saying Romani instead of gypsies
Shoo, American

>>95923413
That? Maybe. But what is being discussed here (afaik) is that centurions are 2 for 1 in terms of taking up HQ slots, so you can get more detachments. Consuls arent. Which I think is only fair, there was no reason to ever take just a centurion previously, the cost to make them a consul wasnt that high (gear could often pay for much of it) and the benefits were very significant in a slot that was highly contested and very limited.

>>95923678
Why would it be bad to want to kill communists?

new heresy : 95923698

>>95923703
>>95923698

>>95922965
Fair.
>>95922962
Yeah but for the chaos gods to be less powerful than some random psyker must be disrespectful to chaos using that logic
>if you read the volumes
No. I'm not as well read as I could be and I'm behind schedule on reading worthy literature. I'm not gonna waste my time read some schlock that doesn't interest me.
>>95923003
I wasn't the person who started with "disrespectful", shithead. And yeah, I want my setting to be compelling, not fucking boring. That's the problem with the Heresy as a setting, it's just dull.
Also WHY can't he have soul? The emperor being retconned into a brooding edgelord only seems to cheapen the heresy by making the compulsions of the heretic primarchs seem like trivial daddy issues, not born of organic human flaws, but contrived angst.

>>95919144
male moaning ASMR

>>95923547
Assume the conscripts are Chinese infantrymen and PDF are the USA soldiers if you need. I'm talking about the current numbers, not the numbers that would exist during conscription, which is not a thing in the US anymore.

>>95923640
99% of the people who want homebrew only do because it allows them to force their ridiculously OP OC doughnutstheel unit rules down other people's throats. In decades of miniatire wargame experience I have yet to see any homebrew that was tastefully done and not some disgusting cheese shit.

>>95923678
Then why he didn't butcher any of this groups? Only one I can think are Ethiopians but that was just war time casualties and collateral damage with some chemical weapon uses to mask bad italian army fuckups against tribal warriors, and Greece that was under famine that was mostly fault of Germans who also occupied region.
How come he didn't have extermination camps and execution squads for this groups, perhaps he wasn't butcher with plans to exterminate entire populations conquered territories unlike his furry spiritualist bff.

Shut the fuck up about Vraks already holy shit.

>>95923800
RENT FREE!

>>95923713
>my setting
it's not "your" setting, and your idea of "compelling" is retarded nostalgia about expectations that only exist in your brain, and doesn't match anything in the HH past or present.

You're just another tiresome moron without reading comprehension larping as a grog

>>95923800
yeah, also this

>>95923825
"My" in this term colloquially refers to an ideal preference, not ownership of the intellectual property, you dense mother fucker. Try not throwing stones in glass houses if you're gonna talk shit about reading comprehension.

>>95922006
The Legacies PDFs went up within a month of HH 2.0 releasing

>>95923858
nobody talks like that except fanboys without self awareness like you, pretentious pseud

>>95923800
You first, IGfag.

Do you think regular termies need to be scaled up now that everything else is getting bigger?

>>95924712
No. Stop the fucking scale creep.

>>95924048
>only pseuds use figures of speech
Not allowed to use an abbreviation then, pseud

>>95922513
>ruined a perfectly good legion
What are your thoughts on Corax?

>>95924712
Yeah I bought 30 tortugabay cataphractii, they are the same size as the fuckhuge IF cataphractii praetor

>>95924875
No I gotta troooon, affirm me stop the hate.

>>95923800
So many 40k refugees and tourists here now

>>95922555
Trips of truth, a lot of traitor primarch madness boils down to child abuse, neglect and trauma.
If they were raised with peaceful parenting they would have been better off.

>>95921170
Lovely paintjobs, fuck Turd bearers tho

>>95924712
I wouldn't mind a refresh of Cataphractii and Tartaros being as tall as the more recent Indomitus Terminators, otherwise I'll just get the Tortuga ones. I don't mind Saturnine being a fuckhuge anomaly by design, the proportions are just weird.

>>95924712
tartaros look rough, but cataphractii are perfect as is