Thread 95921224

>check 40k art in old editions (ex: 4th edition, black & white)
>pretty cool, dark, metal

>check 40k art in modern ones
>the painter has talent but doesn't feel the same

>Trench Crusade appears
>so 40k but in 1'9k instead
>it's even more disgusting, hellish than old 40k art
>despite 40k has that levels of hellish content

dogshit thread

>>95921224 (OP)
>Meanwhile Grey Kn
it was dogshit fluff then it's dogshit fluff now

>>95921224 (OP)
Trench Crusades greatest weakness is it's only point of interest which is why it's doomed to incestuously spiral in on itself and become ever more insular and irrelevant.
Trench Crusade is ONLY edgy. It has no depth or diversity(non-buzzword). It's mudcore slop.

40k has room for Orkboyz gittin' about and being silly. 40k's main "protagonist" is a 20 foot tall golden skeleton who's master plan to conquer the galaxy was to clone himself 20 times and give each one of his clones a space army. 40k's Chaos isn't just grimdark suffer-porn it's over the top heavy-metal album cover demon-vikings that are defined by being sworn to the service of one of 4 evil Satan's defined either as "the magic one" "the angry one" "the fat and gross one" or "the gay one".
40k is fun and interesting because it's a completely unserious setting where everyone in the setting treats it absurdly seriously. It's funny and that lets it be cool.

Trench Crusade is the kid at the lunch table who wears a trench-coat and spends all day convincing himself everyone thinks he's mysterious when he's just a dweeb that can't dress right.

>>95921224 (OP)
Buy an ad

>>95921224 (OP)
That was retconned, can't use it as an example anymore, Matt.

>>95921334
What was retconned?

>>95921313
>become ever more insular and irrelevant.
You don't think it can become a great franchise if it has the proper writers?
Not all needs to be "diverse", the main focus here is WW1 trench warfare, it's cool enough to be developed for years.

40K was always "grimdark" as a joke, not serious darkness or horror. It's a setting that was largely parodying pop culture and social trends of the 80s. You're supposed to laugh when the church blows up a planet out of wild satanic panic. Ork youths are flocking to fascist conservatism to rebel against their punk rock/hippie/lib parents.

People who are too young to understand the references and grew up collecting the toy soldiers really want to believe it's a serious setting.

>>95921391
Grey Knight/SoB massacre

>>95921224 (OP)
Kind of is on the altar of trying to be more mainstream.
That said I think TC's biggest problem is that a lot of people support it to spite the "chud" side of the 40k fanbase.
I don't believe that a game can coast on by through hate for another fanbase alone. And the TC general is incredibly slow these days even by post-hack /tg/ standards so that might be an indicator that the hype train is slowing down.
Only time will tell if I am wrong or right though.

>>95921408
no. It's a cool aesthetic, but it's just a cool, and very narrow aesthetic. It's a fad for the inq28 people that will last another 1-3 years tops, like turnip. To have staying power you need to have aesthetic diversity for a laundry list of reasons.

>>95921224 (OP)
I checked out when GW put Matt Ward back into direction 40k. Glad I have, as the story doesn't make any sense. It really feels like Ward is inserting himself as Guilliman, and using it to flex on Cruddace's favorite armies by inexplicably changing their names, home worlds, and characters. Infinity has been much more fun, as I like an undercurrent/background level of unseen and implicated evil.

Trench Crusade art is absolutely b o r i n g.

>>95921224 (OP)
>poorly disguised Trench Crusade thread
Nah. Fuck off.

>>95921458
>this argument again
Pastiche is not the same as tongue in cheek is not the same as derivative is not the same as parody. All of 40k's silliness comes from being tongue in cheek and derivative. It couldn't be taken seriously but it could be taken in earnest, it wasn't a "joke". The problem is the novels they went on to base around it thought that was a problem and were essentially aimed at people who read what you've just said and go "n-no it was super serious always actually" and spam relentless drivel about how primarchs and space marines can somehow have the same emotional depth as a historical wargame based around real wars where real people died.

>>95921408
The entire Trench Crusade fanbase is a loud, jealous performance of having more fun than the people who are stuck with the emaciated corpse of modern 40k, failing utterly to realise they are trying to compete in the industry that killed it while 40k fans that aren't completely buckbroken find alternative methods of purchasing models to play in older editions.

>>95921408
"If it has the proper writers"
It would need to be entirely reworked from the ground up by someone who had a clear and distinction vision and who was competent enough to carry it out. It would also need to jettison almost everything it's currently attached itself to because it is an alternate-history setting where the creators clearly didn't know what the real history it was deviating from. That's the problem with starting with concept art and building out from there you have to explain the art the art doesn't reflect any underlying principals or purpose. Even 40k had Dune and 2,000 AD to steal from until their own setting ideas took shape.

>>95921224 (OP)
Wait, is Trench Crusade NOT a GW product? The two are very similar, involving a setting of silly, overly grimdark demon armies fighting questionable religious fanatics, just to get edgelords to buy overpriced figures.

>>95921224 (OP)
Thing is, TC has everyone looking weird or shit. 40k also has its edge, but it has the "i want to be this guy, he looks like he fucks" kind of edge. I cant see myself thinking "Man, being this guy with a baby corpse tucked on my belt is so badass."

>>95921224 (OP)
>ward off evil
It was to protect themselves from the Bloodtide nanophage, The SoB's were immune to the Bloodtide while the knights weren't and the bloodtide could rip apart power armor.

>>95921992
Another issue is it doesn't really feel like a setting you can tell a lot of stories in. People meme 40k being all heavy metal albums but its a big sandbox where a lot can happen. TC doesn't feel like it has that vibe. Could change as the setting develops but I'm not holding my breath.

>>95921575
But again, why you don't want to be narrow?
The whole point of the IP is WW1 but supernatural and hellish in both sides.

>inq28
>turnip
What means that?

>>95922051
No, they got inspired by 40k.

>>95922111
>"Man, being this guy with a baby corpse tucked on my belt is so badass."
You create your own miniatures, you don't need to put that in yours.

>>95921313
Did you read the new short story about the invasion of ireland? Pretty far from "grimderp mudcore slop". I feel like I should say something mean just to make it clear I'm not trying to talk you into it. Sounds like you made your mind up already.

Why are the, "no good guys in my setting, shot babies out of cannons at demons," crowd always the biggest moralfags?

>>95922409
>inq28
Inquisitor in 28mm, originally just the basic premise of playing the Inquisitor wargame which was in 54mm scale with normal 40K size minis to make it more accessible which was taken over by aesthetics-first instagram whores who were personal bum-buddies with Blanche that eventually vanished so far up their own arse they started advocating not only that people stop using the Inquisitor rules to play "inq28" with but that anything more than occasionally rolling a dice with 4-up being success while you otherwise just roleplay like an early-oughts theatre kid was unnecessary, and were then completely taken over by an even narrower clique of certified wankstains involved in the inq28 'zine project(source of such incredible and thoughtful articles as "Space Marines R Teh Ghey, And That's A Good Thing" and "Space Marines As Trans Actually, And That's A Good Thing" and "If You Don't Care For Female Marines You're A Misogynist").
>turnip
turnip28 was the last fadsetting the inq28 types flitted to - because, being novelty-seeking poofters who's only joy is in subverting something that other people like, they quickly got bored of Inquisitor once they'd chased out everyone who wasn't in their clique or who managed to successfully ignore them - a "what if the Napoleonic War had lots of references to root vegetables for some reason and also we painted all our models with actual mud" setting that had kickstarters and patreons and all that jazz and then died pretty much overnight when they got bored of it. Just like they eventually will with this as well.

>>95922467
>Did you read
Anon, everything most posters in these threads have learned about TC has been learned from twitter screenshots and posts on this boards.

>>95921272
All warhammer fluff is dogshit slop, it's just >hurr durr something retarded and edgy happens, pop culture joke
A lot like Family Guy now that I think of it.

>>95921313
Trench Crusade is even worse. At least warhammer tries and fails to have humor. TC is unrelenting grimderp and a neverending fedora-tipping spergout over the existence of religion.

>>95923310
I can't wait to see the end of my hobbies being mainstream, so they can regenerate from this dark days.

How much this trend is going to last? When women, minorities and degenerates will get bored and tired, so they move to ruin other things?

>>95923310
The thing about Turnip and Trench Crusade is that you can use the models for other wargames. You can't with 40K.

>>95921224 (OP)
It's another "inflammatory shitflinging dipshit hive" thread!

>>95921313
>40k's Chaos isn't just grimdark suffer-porn it's over the top heavy-metal album cover demon-vikings
This is what gets lost in all the moral judgements and political interpretations. It just doesn't matter in the end. The sole purpose is to watch chainsword go brrr, whatever comes excuse plot gets baked up for that is ancillary.

>>95926465
You can use any models with anything or just play without models. GW can't come in and stop you.

>>95921224 (OP)
Trench Crusade is just really retarded.
>"Lore" states that the demons could overpower the world any second if they just work together.
>Demons can't leave the Levant after 800 years.
>The Levant is an industrialized, polluted hellscape.
How can they continue farming? Or mine resources? If the human population of Sin City is resorting to cannibalism to subsist, there's no way they'd have any numbers to feasibly mount any level of defense, much less keep attacking Antioch.

Furthermore, the writers go out of their way to pretend that it's Christianity on the backfoot the whole time, but the map makes it look like everyone in Europe is just living as comfortably as historically accurate.
>Also: "But there's demon Kraken in the sea!"
Demon Kraken are just malicious whales, no different from harpooning sea life that's trying to kill you normally.

And then the theology is just absolutely retarded, but if it wasn't, liberals won't flock to it.
40K is a stupid setting but it never pretended to be realistic. It never pretended to be le epic takedown of religion no matter how many reddit atheists claim otherwise. 40K "not having any good guys," is more defendable than Trench Crusade's "I eat babies as a snack" vs. "I'm fighting so demon-worshippers don't eat my children as a snack."

>>95921224 (OP)

REJECT MODERN GRIMDARK

EMBRACE GOOF TRADITION

It stopped being Grimdark the moment they wrote Guilliman back in

>>95921458
>satanic panic

Anon, in the 40k universe, "Satan" is objectively real and when enough people gather around to worship "Satan" the planet actually does get invaded by ravenous, murderous beasts from Hell. It isn't just superstition.

>>95922290
then why not just send in the SoB to do the job?

>>95927076
Both are the products of militant atheists.

>>95921224 (OP)
grim dark came about during the peak of economic and cultural wealth and opportunity. It was an escapist fantasy of a rough and tumble world. It sucks in the modern world because the real world is grim dark now. We live in hives, we are constantly assaulted and harassed by xenos, our hives are filthy, polluted, and dangerous. Our culture is itemized into nothing. Why would we want to read the same shit in our fantasy? GOT fell off a cliff while LOTR stays present in the culture for this very reason. A bunch of violent, hostile, soulless invaders that want to kill my family and destroy my civilization isn't a far out idea; it's the reality. The demons that infiltrated our society just tricked our leader into bombing another country for no reason other than to satiate their demand for blood and corpses, as demanded by their culture. We live in a grimdark world, so naturally the fantasy is going to change to something that is not our reality, hence noble bright coming back into popularity.

>>95923310
To be honest you could do a hell of a lot more homebrewing with Turnip 28's setting than with TC's, the tone of laughable british jokes is also infinitly more preferable to "RELIGION BAD AHHH THE SATANS ARE SO EDGY THEY WILL EAT EVERYONE"
The only real shame is TC having a far stronger art direction, which is the real appeal for these types of games, specially Warhammer.

>>95927076
>How can they continue farming? Or mine resources? If the human population of Sin City is resorting to cannibalism to subsist, there's no way they'd have any numbers to feasibly mount any level of defense, much less keep attacking Antioch.
Good question, also it's never explain how the afterlife works once the "Realm of Life" (Earth) and the "Realm of Aftelife" (Heaven, Hell) are connected by portals.

>And then the theology is just absolutely retarded
Just wait, because there are rumors about the inclusion non-abrahamic religions and factions in the setting.

>>95926465
What makes a big fat priest wearing a gas mask more suitable for use in other wargames than a big fat priest not wearing a gas mask?

>>95923597
Kill yourself fucking contrarian faggot.

>>95928667
>hey anon, eat this liquid shit sandwich
>no, that's shit
>fucking contrarian faggot

>>95926465
>for other Wargames
What other wargame's aesthetic to they fit in besides 40k lmao?

>>95927076
>liberals
Are these 'liberals' in the thread with is right now, schizo-kun?

>>95929392
that's me anon.
i am that person.

>>95921272
>it was dogshit fluff then it's dogshit fluff now
I remember when my GM started our Dark Heresy campaign, he said that he was only making one canonical change; specifically that "Matt Ward's incel snuff fantasy never happened."

>>95929456
Game?

>>95929558
>"Matt Ward's incel snuff fantasy never happened."
In hindsight it really did come across as the dude's fetish.

>>95921224 (OP)
40k hasn't been properly grimdark since guilliman revived desu

Concerning ammount of faggots in this thread talking about a game they are too much a fag to play or actually read about.

>>95928378
I'd take a militant atheist from the 80s over a reddit atheist anyday.

>>95928568
>adding non-Abrahamic religions
It's nice to know they're absolute retards and are going to kill the game trying to pander to Chinese spiritualists.

>>95929392
I don't know about this thread, but there's too many liberal faggots in my area ruining my gaming experience.

>>95929803
Call of Duty: Black Ops 7: Disco Elysium

>>95927118
No matter the setting, grimdark or goofydark, the Imperium is always right.

>>95930218
>to pander to Chinese spiritualists.
With the recent 'Invasion of Ireland' new lore, the Irish appear to be christian-pagan syncretists (Christ and Dagda being bros? Christ and Lugh being the same god or aspects of him?).

>>95930255
>retarded theology
What did I tell you. Ignoring St Patrick driving the serpents from Ireland.

>>95921224 (OP)
To ask the question is to answer it.
>>check 40k art in modern ones
>the painter has talent
This is less and less the case.

>>95928452
>"RELIGION BAD AHHH THE SATANS ARE SO EDGY THEY WILL EAT EVERYONE"
Yeah I dropped that shit when they did some weird moral equivalence between the people fighting actual hell and Christianity. Then they heavily watered down the Christian aspect and put a lot brighter emphasis on the Sultanate.

>>95931554
From what I understand the original idea wasn't anti-religion, but then reddit and the 40k fandom got involved and next thing you know the Christians are all suddenly evil and stupid and Hell is ackshully right all along, because "heh nothin personnel chud."

>>95929558
>>95929986
Matt's women murder festival was retconned, despite Matt still raping collective storytelling to have his penis feel something; which, just like his post 5th edition Space Marines', his vestigial mottled and shriveled leather strip can't feel or do anything besides serve his own half-baked ego when his caved skull gets the want to bully Cruddace.

If I could, I would push Ward's knees backward until they popped out the wrong way so he'd have to hop around like a bird to get anywhere the freak. Turn back the story and retcon everything after the evil space pussy consumed Cadia. Fantasy reset, not "The Old World". Kill off AoS, reset to 6th edition Fantasy.

Small lore edit: Make Tu'Shawn into D'Fraiser.

>>95921224 (OP)
post models?

>>95927118
>MARINES LOL
what was his fucking problem bros

>>95931612
Why aren't reddit and 40gay fans banned from going outside their containment zones?

>>95921313
The problem with your analysis is you're assuming Trench Crusade is trying to lean on its lore to support it. It isn't. I know this may be hard for a 40kid to understand, but some games actually lean on their gameplay. Which is what Trench Crusade does. They are making a game that's fun to play with the lore only being a secondary concern. 40k, on the other hand leans on its lore because the actual game itself is dogshit and has always been dogshit.

You 40kids are so brainwashed by GW that what I just said is utterly incomprehensible to you. The idea of a wargame actually emphasizing gameplay is a completely foreign concept to you.

Matt Ward was based and the game went really downhill with the return of Guilliman and the primaris marines only after he left.

>>95934385
If people want to have fun they'll use 2ed or maybe have a one off game of RT, using the minis they already have.
They aren't going to play christcuck mordheim

>>95921313
This, Trench Crusades only has good art and nothing else.

>>95927076
Yeah it's retarded. I really dont likeTC for the reasons already mentioned.

They did handwave the food stuff with some sort of hell tree that can grow though.

>>95934412
Nah. What part of "40k's gameplay has always been dogshit" don't you understand?

>>95931612
That even worse. Caving to those people is somehow worse than being them.

>>95921224 (OP)
>Trench Crusade
>yo lets take out all the cool sci-fi stuff from warhammer 40k and make everything even more hopeless and grimdark
garbage setting

>>95934026
He read Horus Heresy.

>>95930218
>I don't know about this thread, but there's too many liberal faggots in my area ruining my gaming experience.
Υou don't play any games and you don't actually interact with real people. You just came here to have your daily autistic culture warrior bitchfest.

>>95931554
>weird moral equivalence between the people fighting actual hell and Christianity
Which is indeed a retarded thing to do because both BIble lore and the IRL history of the various churches & denominations indisputably prove that Christianity would be worse in every way, shape and form.

>>95921224 (OP)
Corners and burs get filed off of products that want to sell to the broader audience.

>>95921224 (OP)
Trench Crusade is fundamentally doomed, because it despises its intended audience.
Let's be frank, Trench Crusade is the chud game. The people who really, really love the aesthetic are incredibly right-wing, they're the ones who listen to death metal and who hate anyone who has brown skin. They want to be righteous crusaders massacring heretics.
But Trench Crusade's writers hate those people and don't want to indulge that fantasy, when it would be so easy and profitable to do so.
In 40K, I can indeed be a fascist, I can genocide aliens and wipe out libe - sorry, Chaos cultists - and kill que...Slaanesh worshippers.
But Trench Crusader wants to make a moral equivalence between Heaven and Hell, which is utterly ridiculous. By the way, they say, Christanity is bullshit and the Muslims have a good thing going, take that chuds.
The writers are stupid, retarded motherfuckers, this is going to bomb worse than games like Concord, Relooted, Fairgames$, Hyenas and the Saints Row reboot.
Literally the definition of 'safe edgy', not only is there no depth, they actively hate the people who are most inclined to be attracted to the setting.
I bet these 'people' unironically support Pride Month.

>>95935038
What few of you who are willing to buy anything will buy it.
You've never been a driving force of the tabletop market, really.

>>95935038
>Trench Crusade is fundamentally doomed, because it despises its intended audience.
Ι mean, it literally had several record-breaking kickstarters AFTER the devs hilariously gate-kept the fuck out of you seething, reeking, malformed, sex-starved freaks and told you to fuck off. They intended audience liked it just fine. What you struggle to come to terms with is that you're not ANYONE's intended audience. From billion-dollar megacorps to indie start-ups to your own, long-suffering mom reading you a bedtime story as a kid in hopes it'll stop your autistic screeching.

>>95927076
I don't think trench crusade is meant to be a takedown of religion. It would need something like a third antireligious technologist faction who are shown as much more successful and rational than the religious defenders for that to be the case.
The lore is stupid simply because they started from the aesthetic they want to sell and worked backwards from there.

>>95934395
He's been back since 2016...

>>95935365
And there's some rumors that he never actually left at all. GW just said he did to get the retards to stop screeching.

>>95934395
People have been saying *current new thing* ruined 40k ever since I started paying attention to it.

>>95935038
>The people who really, really love the aesthetic are incredibly right-wing, they're the ones who listen to death metal and who hate anyone who has brown skin. They want to be righteous crusaders massacring heretics.

>>95934385
>but some games actually lean on their gameplay
Kind of a bad move considering the top tabletop game has been 40k for years, and right now number 2 is battletech which didn't get those numbers because of the unchanging 1980s gameplay.

>>95933404
>Turn back the story and retcon everything after the evil space pussy consumed Cadia.
Glad my GM decided not to follow that shit. Special thanks to all of the autists who spent years bleating "hurr durr advance the plot!".

>>95935352
>I don't think trench crusade is meant to be a takedown of religion
It didn't start that way but it definitely became that way. All the lore has a very strong "religion bad, christians stupid" tone to it.

>>95935677
Christians ARE stupid.

But anyway, if you don't like it, go play all the games made by savvy christian game designers or powerful christian artists. Oh, wait. Fuck.

>>95936046
vgh...this would not have happened if the Arian Christianity adopted by Germanic mvn was not replaced by the meddling meds and their trinitarianism...

>>95936046
>go play all the games made by savvy christian game designers
Kriegsspiel it is.

>>95935677
Cite specific examples. Prove you aren't just regurgitating an opinion from someone else.

>>95923823
>please daddy, save my masculinity!
Lel, lmao even.

>>95928332
To bad burning the population of a city because they wore the wrong color on a Wednesday because the local saint sniffed the possies that one time also empowers the dark gods.

>>95921224 (OP)
>Ditch Jihad

>>95936046
I make my own.

>>95936663
>"overpriced"
>Literally everything about the game is free.

Do 40kids feel so threatened by this game that they're just making up lies about it now?

Did some e-celeb talk about Trench Crusade again?
The only time people talk about it outside it's general is when some internet personality complains about it, I've noticed.

>>95921313
>mudcore
I am using this term from now on

>>95936693
You're the brand of retard that that kind of thread attracts

>>95921224 (OP)
>crypto trench crusade thread
>muh grimdark
Absolute clockwork

>>95937015
>Says the retard who calls a wargame that is 100% free "overpriced"

>>95936046
Nta but this is a cool Christian world building project by a Christian artist
https://youtu.be/5w5sWA6brXU?si=Gjr0Lrm41lDEGjuW

>>95936069
If Arian Christianity survived they would’ve just joined Islam and made a Germanic Caliphate

>>95935228
Holy projection batman lol

>>95937165
>n-no u!
Guess that hit a nerve.

>>95935228
Mocking someone as autistic is ablist and you should be gulaged from the commune for your bad vibes.

>>95937248
>ablist

>>95935352
>. It would need something like a third antireligious technologist faction who are shown as much more successful and rational than the religious defenders for that to be the case.
It's pretty obvious they touched Islamic faction with kiddie gloves, it's more of a take down of Christianity

>>95921224 (OP)
Do you still get banned for calling it Tranny Crusade?

>>95937635
That is exactly right. The Christians are these seething half-evil bizarre and desecrating forces, while the Muslims treat their people well and their magics don't really involve any suffering.

The Christians are these crazed zealots that desecrate their own religion, powered by essentially blasphemy and torture. Muslims are portrayed as rational alchemists and do not cause much suffering at all. Their creatures are constructs with angst because they don't have souls.

>>95937146
dEAD gODS is awesome. I'm glad you posted it. The worldbuilding is top-notch, the giants/nephilim and watchers are incredible. I've liked every single one of the videos so far.

>>95930165
If a game can't entice interest from it's literal target demographic that's the games fault not ours.
Do game more gooder next time.

>>95939971
You aren't the target demographic though.

>>95940099
I like great war alt history, how am I not the target?

>>95937284
kys nigger

>>95921224 (OP)
>Is 40k losing its "grimdarkness
nah

>>95935228
>Ι mean, it literally had several record-breaking kickstarters
Spite can be a powerful tool in the short term, but I doubt it will translate to many games at the LGS.
I'll admit after some interaction with the fanbase via their Discord server, I'm genuinely regretting supporting the Kickstarter. Might keep the book around with me as a cautionary tale like how I kept the Lego Universe MMO CD box as a lesson to never pre-order stuff.

>>95940110
Your politics are problematic. No one wants right-wingers in their space or as part of their customer base anymore. If you still want to buy though, we'll gladly take your money, but we aren't going to pander to you or make you feel welcome.

>>95921230
fpbp

>>95921224 (OP)
Go away, ward, you collosal gigantic faggot.

Never happened.

>>95940110
Games like WH and TC are made for leftists by leftists. They straight up hate anyone who disagrees with them, or even who just doesn't explicitly agree with them, and they openly say as much.

>>95921224 (OP)
I like a less grimdark 40K. Lets be honest, ther eis a point where grimdarkness become just "Edgy Grimdorkness".

>"OH YEAAAHHH, so much nihilism, gore gore gore, rape, incest everywhere, drinking blood and eating shit, demons, everyone is a fucking slave even in death,etc"

Its not cool, its cringe, tryhard and insipid.

>>95940727
I thought communists hated money. You should be tripping over yourself to give rightwingers money.

>>95940727
This is how I know trannies can only survive behind glass, like bugs in a terrarium. They're completely unaware of their surroundings, of themselves to their detriment, and outside they'll get stomped. Not only is he subtly claiming to be a part of a development team by saying "we will take your money", he also doesn't realize that the largest demographic of history enthusiasts are conservatively minded.

Be like Battletech devs, don't give a shit about these coinflips.

>>95941417
>Be like Battletech devs
You mean misappropriating funds and reneging on contracts?

>>95941242
>"Everyone left of me is a communist!!!!"

Is this an example of what they've been calling the "woke right"?

>>95921313
You got old.
Your granny would have said the same stuff about 40K that you do about Trench Crusade.
You haven't played a game of TC and will never paint a TC model and it doesn't have decades of comedy memes built up to spoonfeed you with, so you genuinely look at the art and cannot recognise it as heavy metal nonsense.

>>95941464
Better than renigging 30 years of investments through story changes and misappropriating biology for 2% of the market that has a coinflip to make it to the next update.

>>95941619
Go to gulag

>>95940223
KEK

>>95941637
>you will never paint a TC model
>game is model agnostic
Up there with OPR fags going on about model agnostic then cucking out for models from OPR at GW prices

>>95941637
No she wouldn't. She would've said "oh that's a funny little model, that must be hard to paint!".

>>95941719
>through story changes
Every ten years someone else buys battletech and adds a new, even worse era to the storyline that everyone fucking hates.
>>95941417
They officially supported that trans battletech fanfic book. There's three of those now and they've supported every one of them.

>>95937074
This is a stealth e-celeb thread.

>>95941999
>wojak
redditor

I literally couldn't care less about ww2 with medieval helmets and brown sharted boots. Back to your dead general

>>95942234
>redditor

>>95940698
>Spite can be a powerful tool in the short term, but I doubt it will translate to many games at the LGS.
Ascended-tier cope. You were gate kept, get over it.

>>95921224 (OP)
No, but the action shifted to Primarchs and super space marine space marines having DBZ fights with horny space marines. You can mention a trillion casualties, but when it's all about space demigods it doesn't have the same impact.

>>95921224 (OP)
>Is 40k losing its "grimdarkness"?
No

>>95942715
Imagine those sisters, all on their super period...

>>95941637
My grandma sat with me and watched me play God of War when it came out.
> You haven't played a game of TC
Literally not one TC advocate in this thread has expounded on why the rule-set is worth a damn. Nobody who likes TC likes it for the rules or that's what they'd be using to defend it.

>>95942715
That's atrocious writing.

I barely know much about TC but I like these giga niggas.

>>95934385
>but some games actually lean on their gameplay. Which is what Trench Crusade does.

Bro I'm not even into 4pk but this is next level BS.

I have seen as much game of TC posted here and irl that I've seen games of Kingdom death. Zero.

A record breaking kickstarter with ZERO gameplay.

TC is the 2020's Kingdom Death.

>>95942689
Eldrad was technically dead before 8th edition and I still saw him in every Eldar list. It's always been herohammer.

>>95942375
>You were gate kept
Maybe.
If after being tired of the community after five games with four of them dragging me into hearing their trauma about how nobody respects their pronouns or inane shit like that counts as being gatekept then yeah I guess I was. I can't see many well adjusted adults dealing with that kind of shit in nearly every game.
I want to play games not be dragged into annoying discussion.

But I will reiterate: spite is not a good thing for any media in the long run.
My evidence is the /trench/ general being a zombie thread bumped every now and then to not fall off the board before bump limit.
I'm still keeping my TC kickstarter book around. Unless demand for it on Ebay reaches huge amounts of money maybe.

>>95921224 (OP)
I think it's more the art direction has moved from a gothic look to a more modern style. With other elements being more akin to Marvel comics style. While plenty of violence will exist it will be mass appeal violence. ie, no magical realm. Looking at you Daemonculaba. Writer fetishes aside, I think this pulls away from what made 40k stand out a lot, with the change it feels that it lost its soul. It's echos are there, but still feels like something is missing. Personally I blame the Tau for this.

>>95922409
>You create your own miniatures, you don't need to put that in yours.
nta but if the solution is "make my own lore" then why would I play in someone else's setting?

>>95921224 (OP)
>veiled Trench Crusade thread
I'm still waiting for those screenshots of that time when disgruntled 40k fanboys from the femstodes drama came in.
People make it out like it was armageddon in the discord server.
TC makes it out like they properly booted all of them out when really from what I gather the mods just went "fuck it" and nuked their own server.

>>95944543
>If after being tired of the community after five games with four of them dragging me into hearing their trauma about how nobody respects their pronouns or inane shit like that
Yeah but none of that actually happened simply because you don't play any games. You just heard about TC from Arch or some other subhuman "loremaster" on Twitter, flocked to its Discord like a proper culture warrior NPC and then got banned for being a screeching autist. That's all there is to it.
>My evidence is the /trench/ general being a zombie thread
Ok, so you're an actual drooling retard. Glad we cleared that up relatively quickly.

>>95942130
> cucking out for models from OPR
Not even their own forums have opr models as their main thing. Even their facebook page we see people posting random shit even toys as models.
Can't say the same thing with TC, because even the alternative models is just the artillery witch but with bigger tits.

>>95921224 (OP)
I hope so. Grimdark was always stupid. I like 40K in spite of that.

>>95944825
I learned about tc from the /trench/ general in a “oh new general wonder what this is” kind of way so I assume long after that controversy and those literally who-tubers were involved in that shitfest everyone talks about but has no screenshots of so maybe it didn’t happen.
>either way
Denying reality because it contradicts your opinions and worldview is not how to maturely address contradictions to your opinions and worldview anon.
I am speaking from the experience of pick up tabletop simulator games where I advertised them in the official discord server. Admittedly looking back using discord due to the average user there was my first mistake. Maybe the naysayers of discord users were right in some capacity or I just have shit luck. Maybe both.
>Ok, so you're an actual drooling retard. Glad we cleared that up relatively quickly.
If you’re not going to address my points in an adult manner then I’ll just accept your concession.
I hope you didn’t make tench crusade your personality and identity like so many 40k haters of trench crusade have done making 40k their identity hence why they attack trench crusade.

>>95937248
>Mocking someone as autistic is ablist
So you're autistic, stupid, fascistic, and downright unlikeable by just about everyone with an IQ greater than their shoe size.
By my count that makes you 4 strikes down. And perfect for playing Trench Crusade.

>>95945218
>Denying reality
Yeah but, again, it's not the reality. It's made up story about trannies and liberals you cooked up in your mind to get mad about. You don't play any games and no one in their right mind would invite you to their table.
>If you’re not going to address my points
You made no points. Claiming TC is 'fundamentally doomed' because, uh, its dedicated thread on a Burmese basket-weaving is slow these days is unironically a double digit iq "argument".

>>95937146
>>95939524
Indeed it is, I'm definitely stealing the pre-deluge upper atmospheric ice field "firmament" for other things among others.
>>95935677
When you're doing grimderp and the religion irl has had fits of self-negation most would consider excessive it's not all going to be squeaky clean. Any total equivalence between "I literally eat babies" and the other guys is daft but I'd be even more disappointed if Heaven were all squeaky clean paladins to a man (nothing wrong with that in other media, just doesn't fit TC). That said >>95937635 is fucking infuriating, the fact it's untouchable says worse things about islam as it is irl that parody in some artbook ever could.

>>95945473
Tc may be doomed if the general is anything to go by and the subreddit looks pretty inactive but it is hard to tell as subreddits are just updoot farming so while I may be wrong I firmly believe that the signs are already there.
I do want tc to succeed though and not be another Renegades where it has potential and just fell into the downward spiral of being unpopular for being unpopular even by awg standards. I mean I asked around in my local lgs’ discord and got no responses beyond someone asking what’s trench crusade.
So again for me and my experience the signs are already there and I hope I’m just being worrisome.

As for the games they did happen but i talked about my trench crusade problem in a discord channel I use to keep in contact with old friends. I got laughed at and told that tts and public discord games are a recipe for disaster because rejects among rejects are more likely to be encountered.
So I’m okay in taking the L there.

Hopefully real life games of trench crusade will be different in a better way. If I can get any because the lgs is just mtg and warhammer.

>>95936046
>go play all the games made by savvy christian game designers or powerful christian artists
Funny considering the games you play are all derivative of D&D and Gamma World, both by christfag authors.

>>95945803
No no no
R/atheism sisters our rebuttal?

>>95937635
>It's pretty obvious they touched Islamic faction with kiddie gloves
Let's not pretend the reason for that isn't because Muslims actually back up their complaints wuth threats unlike Christians.

>>95945358
Go to gulag.

>>95945601
I think there is the issue of the niche it fills, it's competing with 2 GW games, and star wars, not to mention other small skirmish games. And is anti-GW spite enough to carry it against necromunda or kill team?

>>95946113
I don’t think anti gw spite is good for any wargame. And I don’t think it breeds good communities but rather elitist ones. Like great you don’t play warhammer games lots of people don’t buy people will grasp for any reason to feel superior over others.

>>95946031
>threat of real life violence if they do anything with them
Sounds like a great reason not to include them in the first place.

>>95921224 (OP)
>>check 40k art in old editions (ex: 4th edition, black & white)
>>pretty cool, dark, metal

>>95946031
How many dune coons do you actually believe play minature wargames? Let alone obscure, indie, kickstarted backed ones? Are you actually under the impression there were Charlie Hebdo-tier chimpouts over the likes of Al-Qadim and Araby?

>>95946201
Well I wouldn't expect a bunch of hyper sensitive tradcaths to know about either but here we are.

>>95946230
Huh? Hyper-sensitive zoomer tradcaths are EXACTLY the type of person to play war games. Especially ones with aesthetics like TC's.
Don't get me wrong, they'll always be a loud, screeching minority but they exist.

>>95921224 (OP)
Can't lose what it never had

It was always grimderp at best. But yes they're losing that as well
Primarchs should've never come back

>>95945601
>they did happen but i talked about my trench crusade problem in a discord channel I use to keep in contact with old friends.
Anon, you're literally proving his point...

>>95921224 (OP)
Trench is for troons

>>95942375
Gate kept from a game for low intelligence trannys. Oh the humanity. I bet its going to be super successful with those unstable troons.

>>95935228
Lol you win dumbest poster in thread. Good job little guy, your mom can finally be proud of you

>>95946326
His point exactly? I am an esl.

>>95946201
How about Infinity? These old Haqqislam models look a whole lot less like suicide bombers now.

>>95946358
>>95946384
>>95946405
Holy fucking meltie. This actually rattled you, didn't it?

I think the one thing that wargamers, across all systems, is that Matthew Ward is a nigger and anything in his portfolio should be considered poison.

>>95934385
NTA but I read the Trench Crusade demo rules and they're ass that can't be expanded beyond the skirmish level.

>>95933404
good news anon you can
its your table

>>95947319
Matt Ward is basically gold compared to what came after him. The only reason he's remembered at all is that GW stopped putting the name of the writer on the codexes.

>>95921313
40k is just "rule of cool" the setting.

>>95945601
The game is currently in a rules/faction lull, as they are working on getting stuff together to be actual book release ready, rather than a collection of rules on pdfs.
Anyone saying 'TC IS DOOMED' is fucking delusional; the game isn't even out yet, and everything we have seen has just been beta testing. When the game has a physical copy, then we can talk.

>>95935352
The retarded thing about atheists writing a setting like Trench Crusade is that they cant suspend their fedora tipping to do it. In universe, hell actually exists which means ontological evil actually exists. All of humanities resources would be mobilised to destroy it and almost any means would be justified. Instead we get "but what if Christians did bad things?". Its fucking asinine in the face of being devoured by actual demons.

>>95948609
All of humanities resources are mobilised to fight it and all means are justified you fucking outrage slurping moron, christianity is fucking cool in trench crusade. Open your fucking eyes.

>>95923823
Precisely when they get a new target, a target we will have moved to.
This is about trying to validate themselves by bullying us, same as highschool. And same as that ridiculous epoch, we can at best be annoyed.
They have nothing, they can't even see an apple in their mind. They HAVE to validate themselves like that. Their first breath was the start of a tragedy.

>>95937156
They would have forced a reform of islam, it would have been excellent.
Imagine an islam where being a productive members and absolutely lawful to the letters of the law is the norm?

>>95937635
Fun fact: the expression "kid gloves" refers to the material, leather made from young goats (or "kids"), which is a very soft material. It has nothing to do with immaturity.

>>95948609
They also do the "angels are just demons too!" shit and have all the entities of christianity be just as evil as the ones from hell.

I really don't get what it is with atheists wanting to heavily use religious themes (40k, TC) only to make it cartoonishly evil and dumb. You'd think they'd focus more on Science Good than Religion Bad. Though I guess TC is going that way with the suspiciously irreligious Muslims who also happen to be super smart and cool and morally righteous.

>>95949799
>They also do the "angels are just demons too!" shit
>old testament with it's abstract descriptions doesn't exist
>have all the entities of christianity be just as evil as the ones from hell
>fire and brimstone destruction from on high isn't a theme
Salty as a pillar.

>>95949504
You mean until the Cold War, where psycho fundamentalists were 'regime changed' in to power, and progressive ideals were actively destroyed because they favored one side over the other?
>Persia
>Saudi Arabia
>Syria
>Iran

>>95949799
>They also do the "angels are just demons too!" shit and have all the entities of christianity be just as evil as the ones from hell.
Mind giving examples?

>>95949799
I'll take "faggot making shit up just cuz he's salty" for 300 Alex.

>>95949799
>with the suspiciously irreligious Muslims
Meanwhile, in reality
>When the Infidels opened the thrice-cursed Gate to Jahannam, releasing the Gog and Magog upon those who believe, it seemed that all was lost and Shaitan would emerge victorious over Dunya. But the Creator of the Universe came to the aid of the Faithful, and as had been written, the great Iron Wall of Dhu al-Qarnayan manifested itself in the lands ruled by the Sultan of Rum. A call was sent to those who believe righteously, and over the coming decades the migration of all the Faithful, second in importance only to the Hijrah of the Prophet himself, took place
>But within the walls , the lost knowledge flourishes and from mosques of white marble and gold the muczzin call the faithful to pray for the success of Sultan's army
>Though an understanding between the Church and the Sultanate on being co-belligerents against Jahannam exist… ...Resentment against the infidels who unleashed Gog and Magog runs deep in the Sultanate... Woe to those who dare to hinder the mission of Those Who Believe
>In the name of Allah, the Compassionating, the Compassionate! Praise be to Allah, The Beneficent King, The Creator of the Universe, Lord of the Three Worlds, Who set up The Firmament without Pillars in its Stead and Who Stretched out the Earth even as a Bed; and Grace, and Prayer - Blessing be upon Our Lord Mohammed, Lord of Apostolic Men, and upon his family and Companion-Train; Prayer and Blessing Enduring and Grace Which unto The Day of Doom shall Remain
>Glory to the Great Sultan, the Pavishah of Rum, Commander of the Faithful, and Successor to the Prophet of the Lord of the Universe
>...with total convincttion that Paradise awaits those who fall in righteous battle.
>Their superiors see little reason to waste expensive armour on troops that fall in great numbers and are easily replaceable - Paradise awaits those who die for their faith, after all.

>>95948575
...And here why that's a bad thing? Go on explain why this is bad

Honestly the thing holding back 40k is the same thing affecting most hobbies. A combination of people wanting to water down the setting to appeal to a wider audience and writers eliminating any sort of edge or controversial topic. Warhammer, 40k and fantasy, were settings that were clearly inspired by and ripped off settings the creators liked but played the whole mish mash of joke characters/references and rule of cool mostly straight in a dark setting.

Trench crusade suffers a different problem. It is edge without really anything else going for it. The more maps and lore that gets pushed out the more cracks in how believable the setting is goes away. The writers also don't even go over the top with as much as they could with anything since random topics just get forbidden or banned to even talk about. The project also is behind in a lot of ways and the rule set somehow feels worse than mordheim or other skirmish games rather than improving on past ideas.

The worst part is probably that trench crusade has developed easily one of the worst and most obnoxious fanbases for it. That killed it faster than anything around my area.

>>95949838
>>95950340
>>95950511
You know you're arguing with pic rel, right?
He doesn't play games or know anything about TC. He's just here to throw a bitchfit about the latest culture war Thing™ he saw on Twitter.

>>95949838
>>95950340
>>95950511
You know you're arguing with pic rel, right?
He doesn't play games or know anything about TC. He's just here to throw a bitchfit about the latest culture war Thing™ he saw on Twitter.

I feel bad for mike franchina, his art could have been used for something greater than a turbo niche miniatures game who's only goal is to be edgier than 40k

>>95923310
Yeah, the Blanche clique dominated for a bit but now seems to have died down with Blanche himself having stopped painting due to nerve issues. 28m mag is also a mix of decent articles and masturbatory screeds, its free at least, I agree that trench crusade will just fuck off after a few years its flavour of the month with the intagrammers but tuomas has not struck gold again.

>>95928452
turnip aint bad, the discord is fun, does not take it self at all seriously, and Max himself is pretty decent, happy to
talk about any old stuff but is good at keeping all politics out of the discord.

>>95947319
>I think the one thing that wargamers, across all systems,
Guess bad taste makes you an ESL.

>>95921224 (OP)
Turnip28 btfo's both. It has the Blanchitsu of Trench Crusade with the sillyness and fun of pre-serious 40k.

>>95935038
> We might be evil enslaver demons direct from hell, but not as evil as to not repect your pronouns.

>>95936614
This is for you.

>>95931554
This is my big issue with the game. For an entire game premised on a literal called-by-the-church crusade, there's like absolutely no awareness of Christianity at all.

Yes it needs more Necron galaxy rape stories. I am tired of the Necron not being the only sentient race left.

>>95953349
>atheists make anti-religion game that don't understand religion
Many such cases, 40k is one of them too. It's the flip side of those cheesy Christian shows where the atheist is a cartoon villain and really stupid. Neither group understands the other and most often doesn't care to, just preferring mockery and "me smart u dum" reasoning.

>>95921224 (OP)
IoMfags who make up a majority of the paypiggies can't stand their faction being morally ambiguous or portrayed in any manner that is not the only morally correct choice.

>>95954536
Meanwhile chaostroons can't stand their faction NOT being morally grey and just being objectively evil. Kinda funny, really

>>95948468
>What came after

So more Matt Ward. You think they really pulled the wool over people's eyes by having Phil take the bullet for crowning Ultramarines the new order of the Imperium

>>95942689
>You can mention a trillion casualties, but when it's all about space demigods it doesn't have the same impact.
You distilled exactly my feeling perfectly. There's no room for common people anymore. The guard-wank of telling those more 'grounded' or personal stories was my initial draw to the lore. Then it started to turn into the Avengers: Age of Emperor.

Now all the guard officers are screechy strong women in the media properties if they're portrayed as competent.

>>95944798
Anon, the discord server was a fan server, and had nothing to do with the game itself or the devs.
You got your info from 4chan and e-celebs.

>>95950919
You mean a basic bitch troll on 4chan?
At least they have made their own shitpost thread, rather than infect the TC thread en masse, although a few of them made it there.

>>95923310
Turnip28 is still going strong, though?

And it's funny af, the creator literally describes it as "grimcozy" and wants to add tanks and shit for giggles. It's like if orks were the entire setting for 40k

>>95949799
Atheists, trannies, liberals all identify with demons, so if any of them make a setting with demons, the opponents have to be on demons' moral level because those retards can't ever realize they're bad.

>>95958082
I know of at least one anon in /awg/ that has a sperg shitfit any time Turnip28 is mentioned and will just make shit up about it all the time like how supposedly the creator and some other game maker hate each other, that the game is dead, etc. Would not be surprised if it's the same guy. As someone who likes playing all sorts of war games, I find the /v/ mentality some anons get in /awg/ extremely tiring.

>>95921272
it was incredibly based fluff

>>95944543
The kickstarter book isn't being shipped out until September you lying little faggot.

>>95928332
"The satanic panic" was an IRL happening which is parodied in 40k. Fucking zoom zooms, I swear.

>>95927118

WE NEED MORE ROGUE TRADER ERA BULLSHIT AND SPACE CRUSADE STUFF

IDK, A ROGUE CRUSADE

>>95950919
>>95957201
kys redditors

>>95923310
>once they'd chased out everyone who wasn't in their clique
how exactly did they do that? you copping a ban from a more heavily moderated forum for your increasingly unhinged rants doesn't count

>>95935038
Why not make your own game, then? Set it in WW2 rather than WW1. All the historical "bad guys" are actually good and all the historical "good guys" are actually bad. Churchill once said he'd ally with Satan if Hitler invaded Hell, so why not make that literal.

Satan shows up in Churchill's bedroom that night, and makes a deal with him. Hell formally joins the Allied Powers. They unleash demons, dark magic, and possessed soldiers on Germany and Italy.

Then some Italian Catholics manage to turn them back with the power of Catholicism and machine guns.

Italians are the mega-Catholic faction, the Germans bring bacl the Teutonic Knights, Stalin breaks his alliance with Britain and declares Jesus was the original Communist before installing the Orthodox Church as the state religion, and America fights for freedom and democracy (including freedom from God's commands, ignore that Uncle Sam and Lady Liberty are demons).

Maybe say Axis powers launch a massive campaign to take Palestine from the demonic British and then deport all the Jews there. The Jewish faction get golems and biblically-accurate angels.

Call it Diesel Crusade.

>>95921313
40k is Postal
Troon Crusade is Hatred

>>95929558
>specifically that "Matt Ward's incel snuff fantasy never happened."
Good thing that was retconned hard.
Or to be precise it was changed so that the GK didn't slaughter the Sisters, but the latter still died (but not by GK hands).

>>95928351
>why send women to do a job
Because the Grey Knights didn't want them to fuck up.

>>95922111
I think Trench Crusade would have worked better if they had released a board game or something with NPC "evil" factions vs good factions. Of course the problem is a percentage of the player base (who probably never really plays the game) identify with baby belt.

>>95942689
>>95957142
There are still some good none Primarch wank stories but they don't get the spotlight of stuff like Dawn of Fire or the Arks of Omen campaign. Like for example Warzone Charadon has some of the most kino campaign fluff. Unfortunately we haven't gotten a book series or even a single book set in that setting. Not mention all the Kill Team campaign books which have good low stakes fluff that could easily be expanded. Most of which isn't typical bolter porn.

>>95950511
That's a single quote vs. an entire lore. Muslims are undoubtably treated with kid gloves vs. the Christians in this setting. The Christians are blasphemous hypocrites. The Muslims are looking down from their civilization of learning and science.

It doesn't fit the actual history of the time. Looking at the history of the time they are referencing, the Islamic powers were excessively brutal in their treatment of everyone else. Muslims in TC have a veneer of religiosity, but in reality they are looking down on the frankly idiotic Christian factions from a place of both ethical and intellectual superiority.

The grim brush hardly nicked the Muslims and it's smeared all over the European Christians.

It's incredibly obvious favoritism and it's also obvious why that is.

>>95944543
I play games of MTG with trans women all the time at the LGS. Never do discussions degenerate into some feud over pronouns, trauma, or shit comes up. Shockingly if you respect people and don't act like a flailing retard with no manners people behave like civilized folk.The image you mald over is manufactured by internet bubbles and barely exists in reality.

This all said Trench Crusade sucks but that's just because the fluff is pushing it too hard and it's way over the top. Plus, everyone I know who is "into" Trench Crusade isn't a tabletop player, they're "into" it in that they post on the discord and watch youtube "lore" videos (a pox upon the house of every loretuber).

>>95962834
>everyone I know who is "into" Trench Crusade isn't a tabletop player, they're "into" it in that they post on the discord and watch youtube "lore" videos
>40k and TOW doesn't exist all of a sudden
Ever wonder why 'post models' in the different 40k threads has people sperg out, just like 'nogames' in the rpg threads?
If you actually played these games, you wouldn't be on this mediocre board, on a genuinely past it's prime, shuffling corpse piloted by greenies website.
I mean, you are posting in a dedicated /pol/troll thread, and think you are not wasting your time?
At least I recognize that.

>>95962856
>I mean, you are posting in a dedicated /pol/troll thread, and think you are not wasting your time?
I'm posting here cause it's 4:56am and I've been up since 2am with insomnia. I do in fact play 'these' games (though certainly not TC and quit 40k entirely after having the entire setting ruined for me forever) and pop over to /tg/ primarily for PDF's and seeing how the zoo's doing.

Also, the general threads are usually ass besides the pdf's, save for the magic ones and hwg.

>>95934385
NTA but the amount of written words for lore vs. written words for game rules for TC is absurdly skewed, like 8:2. I'm not saying that a game meant to "lean on its gameplay" shouldn't have lore but if that was the intention then it wouldn't need that degree of padding. Furthermore whole I think you are correct in one respect that TC leans on its gameplay, it's not for the experience but to create the story for the players. The blood marker system is such an abstracted rules concept that it pretty much demands players create narrative explanations as they play to explain the extraordinary ways the system can bend the reality of what happens on the board. To say nothing of arching narratives of a warband as it develops over the course of a campaign, or the narrative of a campaign itself. The problem is, that can ring hollow if the place (as in, the entire setting) those stories are taking place in feels too one dimensional.

Overall I'm not trying to harp too badly on TC's lore and setting, though, I think it's just a matter of them really going overboard to dial in the tone at the expense of nuance. Obviously 40k and WHF have got the benefit of several decades of lore being fleshed out to create the more immediately interesting flavor profile. Trench Crusade is just starting out and can certainly grow into something more robust, lore wise.

>>95928332
retarded zoom zoom

>>95927076
Demons aren't even in the material world in trench crusade, they can't enter because it would break the rules. All the 'demons' are half breeds between actual demons and animals
>Resorting to cannibalism to subsist
Are you retarded? It's not 'resorting to cannibalism', they do cannibalism because they're evil

>>95965883
You get my point.

>>95921224 (OP)
>old editions
Meanwhile 2nd edition…

>>95965952
Peacocking your way through the Grim-darkness of the 41st millennium is based. Until the Emperor's Children do it, then it's gay.

I watched some youtube shorts and vids about TC lore and not ONCE do I get anything woke from it.
What I get is hell is invading and Christianity is the salvation that defends us. The world's faithfuls are heroes who fight back the evil hell worshippers.
Its litterally how every Christian nations uniting under the Sword Conclave of Vienna to save a city from being overrun by evil hell worshipping humans.
They cloned Jesus and every malformed clones painfully give up its flesh to create supersoldiers to fight the forces of hell. I dont see anything heroic on hell's part.
What the fuck are you guys talking about this game being woke or anti christian?
From what I see its pretty normal. Did you guys seethe because there's some crumbs of wokism in the depths of some discord chat most people dont give a fuck about? Because as a normie guy who discovered TC via youtube vids there's nothing woke about it. And like anyone relatively normal, I'm not going anywhere near discord tranny chats.
You guys purposely sniffed the bottom of a public toilet and complained the city smelled like shit.

>>95966632
The devs are woke, they just didn't add it to their game
Though others say the muslim faction are portrayed as 'too nice' compared to the christians (even though they use flesh melding to create alchemical monsters as part of their defense)

>>95946136
I feel superior to you for gay posts like that

>>95966632
>What the fuck are you guys talking about this game being woke or anti christian?
It's not necessarily woke, it's just reddit fedora-tipping where the christians are all idiotic savages and angels are as brutal and sadistic as demons.

>>95967117
Angels aren't sadistic, it's just they're dangerous. In Exodus, the israelites put lamb's blood on their doorframes, so their firstborns aren't killed by the angel of death when he does the tenth plague. An angel of God wouldn't need to be told who is marked for death, unless it was *so* powerful it couldn't stop itself, as is the case

>>95922393
It's not going to. The lore is all around bad. There's ideas or concepts that I like with it, but a lot of it is just a pastiche of random designs the artists thought were cool with the flimsiest lore attached. It aggressively looks like "Art Station GRIMDARK: THE GAME." Might use some of the guys as proxies for 40K stuff.
>>95922467
Honestly? The Eire Rangers seem cool. So I'd be interested if you could point me in that direction.

>>95930255
>>95930265
That'd be a cool idea if it wasn't completely ahistorical, even by the ass-backwards logic this IP uses to get to where it did.

>>95934385
>The idea of a wargame actually emphasizing gameplay is a completely foreign concept to you.
>The gameplay is Kill Team but worse.

Owning the chuds with bad lore AND mediocre gameplay?

>>95935352
I'm not the other anon, but holy shit do you escalate. Why the fuck do you guys always go towards name-calling? I know it's on brand for 4Chan, but seriously, that shit is exhausting to even talk with you.

>>95945473
Not the other guy, but you are fucking insufferable and it's a miracle you haven't gotten clocked for being as such.

>>95959745
That actually sounds kind of cool as retarded as that is.

>>95946201
This may sound stupid, but I don't understand why we make the worst-behaving parts of our society a protected class. If Muslims and blacks are shitting things up, why are we enabling them by not calling them out constantly?
It's like the UK calling their sex offenders 'Asian grooming gangs', as if there was a fuckload of Chinese, Japanese and Korean men. The group was nearly 100% Paki Muslims, so why the fuck would you call them 'Asian'?
Does this sound insane to you? Why do we keep downplaying crimes done by minorities?

>>95921313
>40k is fun and interesting because it's a completely unserious setting where everyone in the setting treats it absurdly seriously. It's funny and that lets it be cool.
I agree except for the part where Games Workshop has been running away from its own unserious tone the past few years

>>95968001
What the fuck are you blathering about, you abject subhuman?' Downplaying crimes done by minorities'??? What on
Are you having an actual mental breakdown?

>>95968001
Can you point to pakistan on a map?

>>95921313
Trench Crusade has some pretty irritating aesthetics with its relentless grimdarkness but what keeps it from being successful is that they don't want money from the only demographic into that kind of thing and instead it's going to release DoA to a small community of eunuchs whose sole interest in the game starts and ends with "being a part of the community purely to keep the chuds out."

>>95968857
"the wokes don't love cool edgy demon shit" is a very bizarre cope from you lol

>>95968885
None of that matters, the dev crashed out publicly and made his game a culture war battleground, so that's all it's good for now.

This game isn't going to gain traction, sorry troons.

>>95966632
They are shitposters and trolls, anon.
That's all any of this is, because an e-celeb got banned from a FAN discord for bringing his politics in to it.

>>95963237
You never played Mordheim, I take it?
>>95963028
>I do in fact play 'these' games
It doesn't sound like it at all.
The guys behind TC are the same people that made Mordheim, and unless you are a complete faggot, you will admit Mordheim was an excellent My Dudes skirmish game.

>>95969181
This anon is right. Woke doesn't even exist. It never happened. It's a natural culture shift that games and the companies that make them have allowed that doesn't displace anything you like.

The "woke" isn't real and so it doesn't ruin anything. Just buy the game and have fun. Banning some terrible people and making religions like christianity a little more morally grey isn't a big deal at all.

This isn't some slippery slope or orchestrated plot, it's all natural. Just go with it. Ignore the screeching culture warriors.

>>95969341
You gotta take your pills.
In everything I see of TC Christianity is mankind's heroic last line of defense.
People are comlplaining for grim darkness from a faction of people fighting the forces of hell for 800 years in a WW1 grimdark game.
Like what the fuck are you talking about? The woke right is real, you fuckers complain about the perceived micro agressions you cook up in your terminally online curture war fried brains.
"Slippery slope" what? Its a fucking board game lmao.
You're so intellectually weak you think a board game can shift a culture? Is your life that empty THIS is the hill you wanna die on? By your pearl clutching logic Christianity must be always 100% pure, smiley and rosy, even in the ww1 depressing setting of a niche board game 99.999% of people never heard about.

>>95969341
If it's a natural cultural shift, why are things shifting back

>>95969341
>making religions like christianity a little more morally grey
>historylet
Everything regarding Christianity in TC has historical precedent, dialed up to 11. That is the point, for a weird history setting.
I'm just happy this thread is the sump for the shitposts, rather than any serious thread.
>thank God for the reject threads

>>95969341
>This isn't some slippery slope or orchestrated plot, it's all natural. Just go with it. Ignore the screeching culture warriors.
My man, who can you type this inane gibberish and not realize than YOU ARE the screeching culture warrior?
I swear, the lack of self-awareness is almost to the point of animal non-sapience with you people.

>>95969406
Woke right? Read my post, I have nothing to do with authoritarianism. It's these unpleasant maga types that want christianity to keep this rosy image despite the history of the whole institution being marred by imperialism and hatred.

>>95969341
> Banning some terrible people

And who is deciding who the terrible people are that need to be banned, exactly?

>>95934884
You're not wrong. I'm trying to start game groups outside of my old school friends but I won't engage in 5E, so trying to get people to show up is nigh impossible.

>>95921224 (OP)
Maybe if your only exposure to 40k is space marine 2.

>>95969198
I have, how is that relevant? The poster I was responding to was talking about Trench Crusade like it is a game focused on its rules system more than how it creates narratives for players. That's how Mordheim was too, hence why it was unbalanced and not interesting when played as a minmax game (how about those sling mooks?), but very fun to banter with your friends about interesting moments and how they'd affect your warband going forward.

>>95946882
He's definitely a sperg and should kill himself, but he also has somewhat of a point. While the game wasn't made for trannies and gay lefties specifically, it definitely has drawn them in with the promise of playing as demons and killing the hecking Christo-fascist chuds. If said trannies and leftists prove to be the whales of the community (which they will, look at Magic and 40k), then the TC developers will cater to them. TC is doomed because the culture war hit it before it even got off the ground and unfortunately, the left wins the culture war nine times out of ten.

>>95969198
>The guys behind TC are the same people that made Mordheim, and unless you are a complete faggot, you will admit Mordheim was an excellent My Dudes skirmish game.
Mordheim is great, but it had the bulk of WHFB fluff behind it, and it wasn't nearly as retardedly over the top in grimness as TC is. Outside of the fanbase en large not even being in there for the hobby, my issue with TC is it just smacks too much of teenage edge without any of the nuance that warhammer, especially oldhammer, used to have in keeping the tone from being too much.

Also for a wargame that's supposed to be gritty, the fact that TC has what's basically fate points kind of ticks me off.

>>95969198
The issue is that despite being a newer rendition and attempt at a skirmish game, Trench Crusade fails to really beat mordheim in playability or fun.

It doesn't help that the fanbase is almost universally bad wherever I hear about it. It destroyed itself and almost every skirmish game besides kill team around me.

>>95921224 (OP)
I mean if your only consumption is memes and art, and never read anything.

I mean fuck, in the new lore a navigator risks daemonic posession simply because he's thirsty, and is hooked up to a slaughterhouse device designed to send a spike into his brain the moment he looks like he's compromised. While Blood Angel librarians project their souls into the Warp and tug their ships along like some kind of ghost volga boatmen because they're on the wrong side of the galaxy. Chaos Space Marines barely understand the Warp they are now part of, and a Chaos warrant that gets like a 2 sentence blurb in their codex is a huge unknown who will take and assimilate other space marines into their ranks(and I do mean assimilate, once they join they no longer know or care to know their old friends) as a price to guide Chaos vessels back into realspace. It's plenty grimdark if you bother to actually fucking read.

>>95921224 (OP)
Always has been.

>>95921313
The funniest thing to me about TC is the Christians that flock to it.

>One side is torture and blood fueled eldritch evil.
>The other is torture and blood fueled eldritch evil, but it claims to be God.

Is this correct? They're not actually christian demons but inter-dimensional entities and just called that because the lore is written from the in-universe christian perspective?

>>95984079
Would explain how Islam has survived.

>>95936400
Narrator: he did not

>>95984079
>Warhammer: First Millennium
>WW1 techno-barbarians

>>95984079
>taking a fan theory at face value
Church of Metamorphosis wouldn't have a place if they actually already were the things outside God's plan.

>>95971903
>While the game wasn't made for trannies and gay lefties specifically, it definitely has drawn them in with the promise of playing as demons and killing the hecking Christo-fascist chuds.
This is TC's problem inevitable problem, and I think it was trying to cater to both sides where some could be the Christo Fascists defending civilization, and others could be the demons fighting the chuddies, it was probably inevitable that it would come to the current state of the community that TC is in.
>I backed the kickstarter. I want TC to succeed. I don't want my TC book to just collect dust on my shelf as a lesson to be learned.
And while I want TC to succeed, the cynic in me says that one day the community it has fostered will turn on the TC makers and I guess go make their own TC.
Eventually the TC writers are gonna cross a line that won't be tolerated. Or they'll slip up and it will be a civil war in the Discord server.
It is what happens when you cater to a community that constantly relies on purity checks.
I'm very sure that right wing communities have this too. Haven't seen any examples, but me just knowing is all the proof I need that I pulled out of my unshaven asshole.

>the left wins the culture war nine times out of ten.
I got left leaning friends that bitch about how the right is always winning. They were doing this before bad orange man came to office.
Which is it and why or are the waters too muddied?

>>95993553
>I think it was trying to cater to both sides
Iirc, the devs have not had any official word, being too busy making the game to involve themselves in online culture war nonsense.
Unless you have a statement from one of the devs themselves?

>>95993574
Maybe my speculation was wrong.
Generally when game devs (be they vidya or tabletop) tend to have a mentality where they are trying to appeal to everyone and rarely succeed at that.
They oddly enough end up appealing to bad apples. I can't name a right wing example of this but I know it is there.
>Unless you have a statement from one of the devs themselves?
I don't have one, it is all just speculation based on previous knowledge and pattern recognition and shit I pulled out of my unshaven asshole.

>>95993574
ik there is a ss of a discord post from a dev pulling the ol' "there is no good guys" card, which is honestly retardly stupid when your setting is build on the premise of a literal invasion from christian/islamic hell

>>95993634
At least you admit that all of this is nothing more than speculation and rumormongering.

>>95993656
>discord post
You mean a fan panel at a convention?
Source this screenshot from discord, because the picture you speak of is not from discord.

>>95993657
I said it before too man. I don't like lying on the internet.

What flabbergasts me about this thread is how obvious the 40kiddie mentality of making an intellectual property your identity has infected people.
You see it on full display with how trenchers here are so defensive.

>>95993663
honestly I don't know, I just remember seeing it, thinking it was stupid and went back to trying to source some cool flamethower minis for my Trebizondian warband

>>95993673
>I said it before too man
Then why talk about it?
>You see it on full display with how trenchers here are so defensive
>admits that nothing they are saying is factual
No one likes shitposters, anon, except other shitposters.

>>95948598
>the game isn't even out yet
This is basically cope. The rules have existed for a while so the game technically exists so that point is null and void but I hate both tc and 40k and
Read the reply chain and the copes from trenchsissies is hilarious
>denying reality by saying things didn’t happen to gas light themselves that everything is fine
>attacking reasonably concerned anons about tc
>showing that their personality is tied to a small indie tabletop wargame
I’m so glad I didn’t support the kickstarter.
Tc will forever be tainted with the culture war and I hope none of you trenchers ever know peace from it.

>>95993656
>christian/islamic hell
Which is retarded, because the two can't really be equated. Islamic Hell/Jehannam is explicitly God's own little prison/tortue chamber for sinners & unbelievers, run by explicitly divine Angels of Torment (The Zabaniyah). It's debatable if angels in Islam even have free will at all and are not just exntensions of Allah.

>>95993703
>Then why talk about it?
I'm just relaying speculation and observations. Nothing wrong with that.
>admits that nothing they are saying is factual
Yeah most of what they're saying is coping and ignoring that there are cracks in TC that need to be addressed.
I'm not shitposting I'm being genuine when I say that ignoring the problems of TC is not gonna make them go away, if anything it will make them worse.
I hope you aren't one of those Trenchies that are denying there are problems because nothing is perfect and there is always room for improvement.

>>95993727
The only correct thing you said was that the cope part. The official rules may not be out, but they are going to mirror the current rules in quality so if the rules are bad then there's no point.

>>95993823
Few people in this thread are talking about the rules; most of it is culture war bullshit that is being layered on top of the game by the people not actually involved with it.
It's more VIKANG nonsense. Even your 'speculation' has no real basis other than opinions by outside parties with an axe to grind, for whatever reason.

>>95921224 (OP)
>Is 40k losing its "grimdarkness?"
Nope.
TC lore is just more accessible while Black Library books are bad and you either pay up or pirate so naturally the majority will be exposed to lore through the internet meme telephone game that so many (myself included) got sucked into when looking at 40k lore.

Besides all that trying to have a grimdick-measuring contest between which grimdark setting is more grimdark is the equivalent having an argument over whether the colt is better than the beretta. They're both guns that will both kill someone if properly aimed at said someone. Just like how both settings are both grimdark and would suck to live in.

>>95993856
>Few people in this thread are talking about the rules
How are the rules in their current state? Are they any fun compared to Mordheim? Has Big Tommy lost his magic with age?
I feel the /trench/ would be too biased and I'm not sure about /awg/ to be completely honest.

>most of it is culture war bullshit that is being layered on top of the game by the people not actually involved with it.
Funny thing is that constantly negatively talking about TC is only giving it more attention and people becoming more interested in it. I don't mind it.
>It's more VIKANG nonsense
What does this mean?
>Even your 'speculation' has no real basis other than opinions by outside parties with an axe to grind, for whatever reason.
It has basis in what I have observed. I'm assuming you're not trolling here.

I do wonder how much I'd break a person interested in TTS at the LGS if I just said: "I heard it has a controversy attached to it so I don't wanna touch it."

>>95993883
The rules don't do much for me in terms of fun compared to a slightly modified mordheim. They don't really innovate or make the whole thing more exciting.

I could be biased since the local community for skirmish games besides kill died from a combination of: lack of interest and how obnoxious TC players got.

>>95921224 (OP)
People who dislike trench crusade because they think its too "edgy" are afraid of sincerity and artistic commitment. Whedon-esque impulse.

40K has more material and therefore more variance in the material, and I do like some of the more light hearted stuff like that Dark Eldar love story, but almost all the best 40K stuff also takes its setting and internal reality very seriously. The best 40K stuff isn't about wryly smirking and cultivating a detatched sense of superiority in the audience. The best 40K stuff is generally about making it feel real. About trying to convey the feeling of being a guardsman and encountering a chaos space marine as a real, dirt streaked, armour-humming reality.

Even some "silly" stuff like Ciaphas Cain doesn't really compromise on the internal seriousness of the universe, certainly not to the extent people act like it does, because most of the humour is either retrospective or could actually happen in serious situations in real life. Its people making jokes and being conceited and taking things lightly thinking back to events that happened decades ago. Its still generally treated as a matter of tangible, vivid life and death back when it all originally happened. Where the characters act funny in the moment, it generally within bounds where someone could actually act funny in World War 2. It doesn't hinge on truly not taking the setting seriously.

>>95995239
When people say it's too edgy they aren't asking for Marvel "THAT just happened" style quips to lighten the mood, they just don't want the stupidly edgy stuff to happen in the first place. There's absolutely no good reason for shit like GKs killing SoBs to bathe in their blood, or agriworlds being literal cannibal holocausts, or tidbits like "the average guardsman's life expectancy is 2 seconds." Subverting it in the moment by pointing out how dumb it is would not make it less dumb, that's not what people are asking for when they say it's too edgy.

>>95995285
I feel like that specifically is a self solving problem. 40K rulebooks were full of lore like that to start with, then when they started writing novels it like, automatically had the writers step back a little from the most strict interpretations of that background lore because otherwise there wouldn't be room for recognizably human characters to experience conflict that feels like it has stakes. You can't write a novel about a guardsman where they have like no life expectancy(well, you can write one, then the next novel you have to do something else).

I don't know that its really that TC is all that edgier than 40K, its that they don't have enough tie in fiction to work out the general in universe reality of how human life and desire to live coexists with the more extreme stuff described in the background lore. 40K has servitors, it has horrible sources for those servitors, it has huge wars and trillions of people being worked to death in industrial hell planets, but write enough books and you've also described night clubs and schools and parents loving their children and people making jokes and not holding a gun to their head all day and suddenly its not so edgy despite nearly all the original "edgy" lore still being canon in the setting. The Grey Knight thing is an infamous example but generally the darker things in 40K background lore are still more or less canon. Sometimes less frequent than originally implied, but often exactly as frequent.

>>95943306
Yes, that's trench crusade, just a more or less series of concept art void characters.

>>95921313
>Trench Crusade is the kid at the lunch table who wears a trench-coat and spends all day convincing himself everyone thinks he's mysterious when he's just a dweeb that can't dress right.
Stench crusade

Trench Crusade is fucking gay, like zesty doctor who nigga gay.

>>95994873
>and how obnoxious TC players got
This is the crux of the issue.
What has caused TC players to get obnoxious as evidenced by this thread if you just skim it?

>>95922467
>>green cloak
is this a ben garrison comic?

>>95998424
>What has caused TC players to get obnoxious as evidenced by this thread if you just skim it?

A desire to own the chudhammer even if it means breaking their own kneecaps
An indie game that essentially appeals to their hipster ideations
The theme of the game portraying Christians as le bad and same level as demons appeals to their hatred for their christian parents and being atheists to spite parents and feel unique.
I could on about this.

>>95968190
They should've brought in actual writers for that because the last few years of writing has been dog shit for BL.

>>95935228
Need to archive this post so we can revisit it in a few years.

>>96001618
>I could on about this.
I bet you could bud. I bet you have a LOT of made up little scenarios in your head to get absolutely ass-blasted about.

>>95921313
I heard Trench Crusade tried to do this recently in the most cancerous way possible, which will probably sink the setting into irrelevancy.

They did the "ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE AND ALLOWED".

>>96003649
>proving his point that TC players are obnoxious.
>assuming you play games at all.

>>95998424
there's also a hell of a lot of 40kfags pretending their shit doesn't stink

>>96009063
>your tribe has bad apples so ignore my tribe’s bad apples
There’s nothing I can do about obnoxious 40keks.
The problem is that obnoxious fans of a small rising indie game is more hurtful in the short term as it may turn people off from tc.
Warmachine had this problem with their players being waacfags and it drove a lot of newcomers away and warmachine suffered for it.

>>96007120
Hit a nerve there, huh?

>>95921313
The word 'variety' exists, and the fact that you didn't remember that is telling.

>>95921224 (OP)
>Is 40k losing its "grimdarkness"?
On its front facing presentation, yeah. GW is downplaying the grimdark a bit to try and appeal to everyone and don't forget that at one point (I think scalpers are now the top) mothers were the biggest buyers of product from data gathered from Warhammer stores.

Now this isn't to say that the grimdark isn't there. It is there in books and sometimes vidya, but I can see that being dumbed down.
Trench Crusade just has its edginess more readily on display.
I just hope that the official rules when out of beta are as good as people say Mordheim's rules were.

>>95921224 (OP)
>bitch in gambeson catsuit
I like it.

>>96010728
>your tribe has bad apples so ignore my tribe’s bad apples
I must have blacked out for the bit where I started shilling trench crusade
braindead fanboy fuckwit

>>95921224 (OP)
>Trench Crusade
wtf, looks like fetishized satanizm

>>96003781
In which way they tried it?

>>96010728
>Warmachine
How good is its lore? What's it about?

>>96012574
>How good is its lore? What's it about?
Warmachine is based on the Iron Kingdoms setting, which started as a trilogy of adventures written for 3rd edition D&D. In a nutshell, it's a D&D setting but with the technology cranked up. So you've got elves and dwarves and magic but you've also got firearms, trains, and steam-powered stompy robots (which a major aspect of the wargame).

>>95959347
>ROGUE CRUSADE
MOTHER OF EMPEROR THAT IS GENIUS

>>95984079
There's no such thing as Judeo-Christian.

>>96015198
Yes, it's called 'abrahamic', because both talmudic judaism and Jesus' judaism based their theology on the god (caco-demon) of Abraham.

>>95959347
>>96014991
How would it work? What would be its lore?

>>95935038
>The people who really, really love the aesthetic are incredibly right-wing, they're the ones who listen to death metal and who hate anyone who has brown skin.
Lmao what

>>95921224 (OP)
It's meant to be campy. It's a parody on dark fantasy and pulp scifi. Is Flash Gordan grim dark? Is Conan the barbarian?

Life is grim dark enough

>>95936069
Wasn't Wulfilas a cappadocian? The Germans ended up Arian because that's who the Empire sent