Welcome to the Old School Renaissance General, the thread still dedicated to the first decade of TSR-era D&D, derived systems, and compatible content.

Broadly, OSR games encourage a tonal and mechanical fidelity to Dungeons & Dragons as played in the game's first decade—less emphasis on linear adventures and overarching meta-plots and a greater emphasis on player agency.

If you are new to the OSR, welcome! Ask us whatever you're curious about: we'll be happy to help you get started.

>Troves, Resources, Blogs, etc:
http://pastebin.com/9fzM6128

>Need a starter dungeon? Here's a curated collection:
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/86342023/#q86358321

>Previous thread:
>>95927152

>TQ: Introductions.
Where are you from? When did you post on /osrg/ for the first time? What's your favourite feature about our general? What keeps bringing you back here?

>What's an OSR?
>Don't know how to get started?
>The friendly n00b guide can be found here: https://pastebin.com/EVvt6P0B until further notice.

Want to contribute to the thread but don't know where to start? Use this table.
>1. Make a spell
>2. Make a monster
>3. Make a dungeon special
>4. Make a wilderness location
>5. Make an urban set piece
>6. Make a magic item
>7. Make a class, race, or race-as-class
>8. Make a 4-10 room lair.
>9. Make a trap
>10. Roll 2D10 and combine

lameSR

It’s a shame 2e is off topic here as that’s what my introduction to the game was as a child and the art throughout the three core books is immaculate!

It’s interesting though that the art budget and quality seemingly went up so much relative to the changes made to the game. I guess they had to compensate for bowdlerization of the rest of the game.

BX is an infinitely better version of the game and it’s a shame it was not the version I cut my teeth on. When my children are old enough and they express interest it will definitely be the version of the game they are first exposed to.

I’m working on a wizard tower as an adventure site within my hex map today. What are you up to /osrg/?

As was discussed in the prior thread:
How should the OP be updated to clarify the wording while maintaining the same meaning and intent?

Reasoning:
The current one is both ambiguous at a glance and has complex enough logic to be confusing to earnest individuals while simultaneously requiring much explaining in order to counter any willful misinterpretation. This is a huge issue.

Ideally a new writeup should
>reduce the amount of vague language
Ie arguments sparked by interpretatioms of what exactly "broadly","derived","compatible" and such mean
>include firmer reasoning about what and why things are excluded or included
"Tonal fidelity" lacks an explanation, the "no linear adventures and meta-plots" part should be emphasized to point out how important that bit is, and "player agency" should be its own sentence to get a bit more importance.
and finally
>state what the thread is-not in a more clear fashion
I think it is important to be drawing contrast to the fact this is a specific place named /osrg/, and that if you wander in here for just a "rules lite", or aesthetically more "brutal" experience while retaining the story/character-focus that overwhelmed the hobby in the 90s, then you are in the wrong place.

Part of the problem is that, at present, the OP requires the reader already intuitively understand Old School tone and mechanics from a specific perspective and understanding of "the landscape and background" of Old School D&D. Without that, it's quite easy for a person to misjudge what the thread is about and unwittingly post coal. Or, as stated, for someone to leverage this and do so willfully.

>>95927984
Over 11 years ago my buddy taught his then-girlfriend's little siblings (I believe she was the 2nd oldest out of like 7, so there was quite a gap) how to play using blueholme. They seemed to have fun.

>>95928023
You're completely and naively misunderstanding what it is that we're dealing with here.

>How should the OP be updated to clarify the wording while maintaining the same meaning and intent?
It's pointless. The "first decade" bit is completely clear, but the mod has decided to sabotage the thread, so she's going to sabotage the thread. Nothing we can do about it except stand our ground.

>Part of the problem is that, at present, the OP requires the reader already intuitively understand Old School tone and mechanics from a specific perspective and understanding of "the landscape and background" of Old School D&D.
It was never a problem because we could just explain what we mean by that. We've even written a n00b guide to help explain, clarify, and orient newcomers.

What's new is that the mod has started to use a sockpuppet account to troll, sabotage, and delete all comments that explain what the thread is about. No rewriting of the OP is going to fix that, she's just going to keep doing ignoring the OP, make posts that say the opposite of what the OP says, sabotage, delete good faith comments, and ban Anons that she disagrees with.

>>95928070
It is not perfectly clear because it reads like hyperbole given the wider OSR landscape and the vague wording of the rest of the post.
>inb4 "This isn't the wider OSR landscape though"
I know, but that should be CLEAR from the OP, which it isn't. It is annoying to have to continually reexplain shit.
The noob guide is also attached as a REPLY, is multiple links to jump through to even open, and someone who already thinks they know what OSR games are won't bother clicking it. This is a complete failure of information design.

Having a clean and clear foundation helps remove wiggle room like you described and makes pointing to clear issues much easier without anons having to waste time.

>>95928070
>she
No women on 4chan anon, you know this.

>>95928156
>Having a clean and clear foundation helps remove wiggle room
No, it doesn't, when the mod doubles as a troll, doesn't give a fuck, and just bans people arbitrarily.

>>95928156
Well, type up and post a new sample OP for critique and adoption at the next thread.

I would do it myself but I’m phoneposting for the next few hours.

>>95928218
You'll only make things worse. The troll-mod will start saying
>You've changed the OP!!! That shows 2e was on topic!!! Now you've made it off-topic!!! I'll keep posting about it!!!
And then the troll-mod will delete and ban everyone like in the last six threads.

>>95927824 (OP)
>When did you post on /osrg/ for the first time?
2011, 2012? Whenever the generals realy got off the ground anyway.

>What's your favourite feature about our general? What keeps bringing you back here?
Whenever it isn't being shitposted into the ground by that one seething sperg it's the best place online to talk about OSR games: no plebbit garbage and faster than the conventional messageboards. Also, the OD&D autists here are second to none for some reason, even on ODD74.

>>95927984
>the art throughout the three core books is immaculate!
This is something that can be fully indulged via the board's art threads, I find. It's rare that you don't get some Parkinson, Elmore and Caldwell posted alongside the Frazetta and Whelan.

>It’s interesting though that the art budget and quality seemingly went up so much
This actually happened sooner, one of Gygax's points of difference with many OSR enthusiasts is that he never really liked Otus and Tramp as compared to Elmore. The "Core 4" of peak TSR art were brought on in the 1E era, either specifically to work on Dragonlance or that was just what they were rapidly oriented on to, along with Dragon covers and so on. I think they were always careful to get the best artists they could possibly afford.

>>95928070
>she
>new
These words are wrong. The rest is correct. Anon in the last thread linked a thread from 2022 discussing the exact same phenomenon we're seeing now: a single assmangled troll and a sympathetic janny.

>>95928156
No, Anon's right. You're not dealing with a constant influx of good-faith newbies or anything of that nature that a clearer explanation could help with. This is a robotically angry bad-faith sperg who for whatever reason is allowed to shit all over the general. Clarity won't solve that problem.

I'm sympathetic to your way of thinking, but it's not germane in this situation.

>>95928218
Doing so. If nobody else will I might as well try.

>>95928204
>>95928236
>>95928355
>>95928369
I stand by the principle of acting in good faith even in the face of the opposite.

Much like a good DM, things should be balanced, clear and fair. Gygax famously said something along the line of how he would not interfere with the player characters using the rope they had to hang themselves, but didn't explicitly put rope there to do that.

How is this?
---
Welcome to /osrg/, /tg/'s bastion of "Gyxax-era" TSR D&D, third-party products (3PP), Retroclones, and "fantasy heartbreaker" modifications.

This thread focuses on games and content using principles, rulesets, and mechanics that rely directly on or cleave close to how D&D was set up between its initial 1974 release and the mid-80s. Some important core ideas:
1. Players are motivated via core concepts like XP-for-Gold, not "story milestones", fetch quests, or predetermined large scale plots. This also guides the DM in prep.
2. "Character builds" do not exist. Player Characters develop organically, not via statistical selections.
3. To survive an uncaring, living world where the DM tracks time strictly and monsters wander the wilderness and dungeon halls, players should be relying on hirelings, logistics, and their wits to approach problems - which includes both parlaying and running away! Not every encounter is meant to be "won", and the DM is encouraged to use tables that have a chance - however small - of a party meeting something truly terrifying.

For a more comprehensive understanding of the thread culture and our approach to OSR, check the noob guide: https://pastebin.com/EVvt6P0B
As always, when in doubt, lurk moar.

Note that this means /osrg/ is intentionally more limited in scope than many other "OSR" locales online. If your preferred game system doesn't fit, there are often other threads up which are more appropriate, or you can start one yourself! Please check the catalog before posting >>>/tg/catalog

>Troves, Resources, Blogs, etc:
http://pastebin.com/9fzM6128

>Need a starter dungeon? Here's a curated collection:
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/86342023/#q86358321

>Previous thread:
>>

>TQ: Test Question
Lorem Ipsum Purple Wormus Beholdus di something something this is just to make sure the character limit is good with the additional text added so the OP is not artificially limited should a question take a bit more words?

>>95928614
>Gyxax-era
Minor spelling mistake....

Deleted + reposted to fix the typo, my bad.
--
Welcome to /osrg/, /tg/'s bastion of "Gygax-era" TSR D&D, third-party products (3PP), Retroclones, and "fantasy heartbreaker" modifications.

This thread focuses on games and content using principles, rulesets, and mechanics that rely directly on or cleave close to how D&D was set up between its initial 1974 release and the mid-80s. Some important core ideas:
1. Players are motivated via core concepts like XP-for-Gold, not "story milestones", fetch quests, or predetermined large scale plots. This also guides the DM in prep.
2. "Character builds" do not exist. Player Characters develop organically, not via statistical selections.
3. To survive an uncaring, living world where the DM tracks time strictly and monsters wander the wilderness and dungeon halls, players should be relying on hirelings, logistics, and their wits to approach problems - which includes both parlaying and running away! Not every encounter is meant to be "won", and the DM is encouraged to use tables that have a chance - however small - of a party meeting something truly terrifying.

For a more comprehensive understanding of the thread culture and our approach to OSR, check the noob guide: https://pastebin.com/EVvt6P0B
As always, when in doubt, lurk moar.

Note that this means /osrg/ is intentionally more limited in scope than many other "OSR" locales online. If your preferred game system doesn't fit, there are often other threads up which are more appropriate, or you can start one yourself! Please check the catalog before posting >>>/tg/catalog

>Troves, Resources, Blogs, etc:
http://pastebin.com/9fzM6128

>Need a starter dungeon? Here's a curated collection:
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/86342023/#q86358321

>Previous thread:
>>

>TQ: Test Question
Lorem Ipsum Purple Wormus Beholhus di something something this is just to make sure the character limit is good?

>>95928614
Xp-for-gold is like the foundation of fetch quests. The literal premise is fetching treasure for xp upon its safe return to town.
Point three could be trimmed down to “strict time records, resource management and rulings over rules.”
And maybe a fourth point to highlight the referee’s job of impartial rulings, creating a living world that functions beyond the scope of the player characters meaning the world doesn’t revolve around them.

But otherwise I’d say it looks pretty alright

>>95928661
>The literal premise is fetching treasure for xp upon its safe return to town.
"Fetch quests" is more of an MMO/current-day term, it's speaking to people who are more familiar with recent things so they know to leave. The emphasis is on the "quest" part, like an NPC telling you to retrieve some macguffin or get back some specific stolen crate taken by lizardmen. I believe it's appropriate to put there as it's the thin end of the "storyshit" wedge.
>“strict time records, resource management and rulings over rules.”
I declined to add the "rulings over rules" line as it often sparks arguments, it's more of an advanced (heh) concept that requires a whole post explaining to someone not familiar with it. It's also not in the noob guide at this time.
>highlight the referee’s job of impartial rulings
>meaning the world doesn’t revolve around them.
This could be tacked into point one I think.

>1. Players are motivated via core concepts like XP-for-Gold, not "story milestones", fetch quests, nor predetermined large scale plots that revolve around the PCs. This also guides the DM in his role as an impartial referee, not a narrator.

>>95927984
Terrible reddit spacing, but 2E D&D is not off-topic for "OSR". Just ignore the trolls, and talk about the system you want. If 2E is OSR to you, so be it, if you disagree that is fine too.