"For the emperor!" ha ha

>>95956978 (OP)

>>95957039
We all miss big E

Za Císařpána!

Thanks for trying, Big E. I'm sorry we weren't up to it.

>>95957471
"We" were perfectly fine
it was His retarded children and his r/atheism autism who fucked it all up.

>>95957548
We were not fucking perfectly fine. Old Night was a slow painful death crawl to extinction before the Emperor came along. You'd have to be retarded not to see that.

>>95958187
>Didn't conquer even a fraction of the Galaxy.
>Didn't manage to unite or defend Humanity in any meaningful way.
>Didn't kill any of the hostile aliens like Khrave or Orks.
>Killed countless peaceful aliens and multi-species empires that included Humans.
>Almost doomed Galaxy by being played by Chaos Gods.
>Indirectly awakened Tyranids and pointed them towards Milky Way.
I don't know man. I prefer slow extinction as opposed to Emperors brand of saving. At least in case of slow extinction I can see pockets of Humanity surviving. With how Emperor retardation ruined everything I don't see any chances for anything Human surviving.

This thread is now rightful property of Be´lakor. You are only allowed to post here if first you acknowledge me as the one true chaos god and denounce that looser Vashtorr.

When i say Be´lakor, you say The Dark Master. Got it?

Be´lakor.

>>95962467
Gay loser

>>95962467
Rock.

>>95956978 (OP)
I dunno, ask /hhg/

>>95962467
>no nipple piercings
>no nipples
Ew

>>95962467
Cuck

>>95958187
According to the Emperor. Who says he wasn't lying about how bad things really were to make his crusade seem more justified? Remember: the writers, going all the way back to the beginning of the game, have always said the lore we read should be interpreted as heavily propagandized accounts, not God's-honest-truth records of what actually happened.

>>95962467
Rock.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afZu1hxAQQ0

>>95962467
Rock.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afZu1hxAQQ0

>>95962467
Rock.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afZu1hxAQQ0

>THAT NEOLITHIC CIVILIZATION OF METHANE-BREATHING BAT PEOPLE ON A TINY MOON 86,000 LIGHT YEARS AWAY FROM TERRA HAS TO BE VIRUS BOMBED TO EXTINCTION BECAUSE...
>UMM...UUHH... IT JUST HAS TO OK!?
Why is he like this?

>>95958187
After the fall of humanity, other human populated planets survived for *thousands of years* before the Emperor got the Great Crusade off of the ground, and developed their own civilizations. Hell, there are STILL new planets that are being discovered and introduced to the Imperium of man, and thats another 10,000 years on top.

If surviving for over twice the length of human recorded history, by yourself, in the 40k galaxy is 'a slow crawl towards extinction', then it must be a VERY fucking slow crawl. And hell, some of those other human civilizations had better tech than the IoM, or were expanding and carving out their own little empires before the Great Crusade broke them. Without the Emperor's involvement, ANY ONE of those could have gone on to found a new human galactic civilization, or more likely multiple competing ones, and THOSE wouldn't have been hamstrung by the AdMech, the Imperial Creed, or having gifted Chaos an immortal army of supersoliders.

The Emperor trying to 'fix' humanity objectively made things worse, and whatever "plan" he had for otherwise doesn't fucking matter because thats not what HAPPENED. Emperor didn't get a functioning webway, decommissioned space marines, and a civilization of psychic supermen. He got a golden throne to rot on, a galaxy in a neverending state of war, and an Empire that is incapable of winning that war because it is morally opposed to coming up with solutions that are not "the enemy cannot kill millions of us if we kill billions of us FIRST."

>>95965923
Its pretty clear that he's just a xenophobic racist. Every excuse he has given for why it has to happen has been debunked by counterexample in-setting. The reasons he gave were never the real reasons he had, he just only likes humans and spent the entire DAOT absolutely fucking seething because he couldn't understand why mankind wasn't killing all of these aliens and was instead doing trade and shit with them.

>>95966629
>spent the entire DAOT absolutely fucking seething because he couldn't understand why mankind wasn't killing all of these aliens and was instead doing trade and shit with them
...Did the Emperor cause the Machine Rebellion?

>>95965923
I'd call him a rabid human supremacist, but he probably killed off just as many human civilizations too

>>95966711
Lets put it this way: if the Emperor is REALLY as strong as his fans say he is, its conspicuous that he didn't do anything to stop it. It sure as hell seems a fuckton easier to just use your future vision to AVERT a calamitous technological failure than to let gigillions of people die, and then slowly pick up the pieces after at a vastly lower level of technology and industry.

>>95965923
>hates all xenos
>is a huge Eldarboo and trained with them in earlier days

He's a faggot hypocrite. No wonder his son fucks and Eldar to spite him.

>>95967135
See, this is why expanding on the Heresy and the Emperor in particular was a bad call; It begs the question of what the Emperor was doing up until the Crusade.
His inaction suggest he was a creation of the Dark Age of Technology, but then we've got all these Perpetuals going "Nope, Grug has always been like this."

>>95967195
I agree, and not just for that example. The horus heresy was never intended to be viewed in depth, it was a very broad strokes mythological record of the conflict and its results. The simplified version.

Expanding it into books, especially with such granularity, really just makes everyone involved look like fucking morons on both sides, because they are mandated to let things go so badly in so many ways that actually watching them do it just makes it obvious how extremely avoidable this all was and how many bafflingly stupid decisions a lot of them needed to make for it to happen. The Emperor gets this worse than others because we were told he was supposed to be a genius, but he can't see the giant neon sign that says "This is how you lose everything" that people are carrying around behind him wherever he goes. Even when other people FLAT OUT TELL HIM that the Horus Heresy is going to happen, is happening, is here..

>>95962439
He conquered well over half the systems in the galaxy and exterminated almost all hostile xenos - the handful that survived are simply the ones that survived the effort.

>>95967690
>He conquered well over half the systems in the galaxy

Anon, no. The Imperium of Man is described as an empire of a million worlds. There are somewhere between 200 and 400 BILLION stars in the milky way galaxy.

Lets give the benefit of the doubt and say that the real number of worlds is 10x the stated number, and each world is in a star system of its own instead of any doubling up. thats still a fucking rounding error compared to the size of the galaxy, not even one spiral arm.

>>95967717
How many of those stars have any planets, much less usable ones?

The map shows a good chunk of the galaxy under imperial control. GW just sucks at scale and math.

>>95956978 (OP)
Just a stupid question, I guess.
The Emperor is in stasis on the Golden Throne, to stop him from dying. But if he's in stasis, how is he still (presumably) using his psychic powers and suffering?
Like, Guilliman was also in stasis after getting stabbed in the throat by Fulgrim, but he doesn't appear to have experienced linear time. He just blinked and thousands of years passed.

>>95967906
I don't think the Golden Throne actually includes a stasis field. It just "keeps him from dying". Like life support.

>>95957471
need a DW team to burn this witch

>>95967906
What >>95968074 said, but I'd like to add that the Golden Throne also functions as a sort of psychic amplifier. When Malcador sat on it he kind of ascended to the next level of consciousness or some shit. So part of what enables the Emperor to keep the Astronomicon alight and occasionally work "miracles" is the machine itself.

>>95967169
>is a huge Eldarboo and trained with them in earlier days
Well that's probably where he got his anti-xenos mentality.

>>95966620
>ANY ONE of those could have gone on to found a new human galactic civilization, or more likely multiple competing ones
Seems like they would have lost, given they got stomped by the unnecessary emperor's crusade.

>>95968462
That is the one part of this that doesn't really seem to pan out, isn't it? The Imperium only really functions if it has infinity guys to throw at the problem and can just drown them in bodies, but at the start of the great crusade that isn't an option.
Doesn't seem like the Imperium should have had the manpower needed to get very far very fast.

>>95968613
Nah, standard earth-centric scifi plotgistics. They all do that.
The part you're deflecting from that doesn't pan out is that none of the other human empires cut it. They all got stomped by the great crusade or aliens. So the imperium was necessarily the best option. If it hadn't existed, any of the empires that would have been conquered by the imperium instead get conquered by aliens.
>but some of the aliums were nice!
The ones who would have won weren't.

>>95968613
It's worth noting that part of the Imperium's success during the Great Crusade was due to the fact that most of the human planets were actually happy to see them and greeted them with joy. Most compliances were completely non-violent, and the majority of those that weren't were fought against obvious evils like xenos (mostly orks).
Having to fight other humans was actually quite rare.

>>95962467
At least Vashtorr is actually from the 40K setting, you lazy WFB import

>>95967668
>many bafflingly stupid decisions a lot of them needed to make for it to happen
Speaking of, why did Emps go full r/Atheist when he was the best informed on how psychic shit worked AND was supposedly aiming for a psychically awakened humanity?

If you know Warp shit is powered by belief, why NOT try to manipulate that?

>>95968613
I'd actually argue that the Imperium had a significant advantage in it's origins compared to other surviving Human political entities.

The Emperor had to wage war to conquer Terra, but had a significant advantage by conquering Earth. That meant all that tech and all that population was his to use. Add in the fact that he then was able to bring in the Mechanicus and then sweep in through the rest of the Solar System, he had a much better head start than most other human ran places.


Could they have survived without the Imperium? That's debatable, but considering the Leagues of Votann were able to do so into current day, I'd say maybe.

But could they survive the Imperium? Not likely. The Imperium was literally designed to leverage it's post-human leaders to break down those who refused compliance and convert every society they came across into loyal sectors with it's overwhelming propaganda and administrative systems. The Imperium was as much prepared to destroy human enemies as it was Xenos; only difference was that humans would quickly become a net gain, letting them conquer more human civilizations.

>>95968743
While I do agree that most compliances were probably amicable, the evidence shows that human societies that refused Imperial rule we're not uncommon.

Something i've wondered is while its old lore why did the emperor personally go to fight horus when he could have just sent his weird proto primarch to go kill him? Even if he failed, at least at that point horus and or the rest of the marines would probably be fucked up enough that he and or the other primarchs wouldnt get confined to the chair and or killed and thus also ensuring his best buddy malcador wouldnt get turned to dust. All he would have to do is get him back in the coffin afterwards like he did the first time which worked when the inquisition did it so theres a guaranteed chance of it working.

>>95964974
So your saying that female custodies exist

>>95969006
I think the idea was to get humanity in the webway asap first then slowly and in a controlled manner allow humanity to grow into mind powers so that not only are they mostly safe from possession but also if the warp gets more fucked they can just use the webway and not worry about shit like gellar fields. Though that doesnt explain him being retarded and not explicitly warning magnus and lorgar about the chaos gods so that even if magnus wouldnt listen (he didnt) and lorgar wouldnt quit the emperor worship (he didnt) he at least wouldnt have them running to the nearest chaos god and sucking their cock like a cheap whore

>>95969064
not that anon but i could see the emperor lying about shit like not being able to make female primarchs in yet another long line of instances where malcador was right

>>95969006
unironically people like fabius prove that the athiest approach could work since daemons near the guy get fucked, now imagine that but on a cosmic scale
>>95969088
big E pretty much did tell Magnus, at least enough for him to know for certain there is extremely evil and powerful shit in there and he should never make any dealings with them (Magnus even lambested one of his own for doing similiar shit) he just didn't listen since to him he just assumed he could find a way to control it, as for lorgar do you really think telling him there are four devil figures (all of whom are extremely similiar to the gods of his old faith before he went on the emperor worshipping train) would actually help, or would it cause him to either go down the rabbit hole faster

>>95969185
Telling Magnus "hey be careful in the warp theres very bad and evil things in there that are evil and tricky"" vs "look there are 4 extremely powerful entities in the warp that want me and and the rest of humanity dead or enslaved all of which are more powerful and smarter than you dont make any deals with anyone in the warp or you could doom humanity" though again magnus' arrogance is what cost him and everyone.

As for lorgar, the dude was enamored with the emperor and while there is a non-insignificant chance he would go chasing after forbidden knowledge as he was terrible at following orders or listening to literally anyone that wasnt argle tal & erebus; at least if the emperor was more specific he most likely would have just said "oh quadruple satan and daemons are real and want to corrupt and enslave humanity and colchis just so happened to be worshiping them? wow i sure dodged a bullet there glad ive been enlightened by the worship of the true and holy god " and would have at least known that suggestions like "hey we should summon daemons and ask them about the warp" and "we should totally let people get possessed thats hat all the cool kids say to do" should be met by immediate suspicion and or execution

The thing with fabius is that he is perhaps the only other motherfucker alive in all of 40k who is anywhere near the emperors level of antitheistic to the point that he can meet chaos gods and still deny them which while impressive is incredibly rare. Compare that to the grey knights, SoB, and Gorillaman all of whom have permanently killed daemons on occasion. Id say both approaches could work but clearly one of these has a much higher success rate considering that even at the most atheist point in the imperiums time the blueberries needed help fighting the demons and the possessed that lorgar had in his legion and while maybe they werent top of the list atheist they were atheist enough to nuke monarchia.

>>95969308
Yeah, you could tell Lorgar - "Look, Lorgar, there are four Gods of Chaos in the Warp. They represent bloodshed, excess, decay and treachery, and they're entirely evil. Don't fuck around with them, Lorgar."
Lorgar would promptly go "Wait, so there ARE gods?" and then you have to get Russ to put ol' Yeller out of his misery.
Same for Magnus, he tells you he knows what he's doing.

>>95967195
> It begs the question of what the Emperor was doing up until the Crusade.
This has been answered since the earliest days of 40k. He was behind the scenes influencing the course of human history using various personas.

>His inaction suggest he was a creation of the Dark Age of Technology
No it doesn't. See the original mass shaman suicide story.

>>95970506
>He was behind the scenes influencing the course of human history using various personas.
Yet he apparently did nothing to stop the supposedly inevitable machine rebellion?

>>95967135
It's always been a simple fact that the birth of Slaanesh, which was caused by the Eldar, caused the Age of Strife. It's also stated outright that the Emperor had no capacity to stop that.

The Machine Revolt was a calamity but a survivable one. The Warp becoming unusable for travel and communications is catastrophic on a whole different level that nobody could deal with.

>>95970516
What he did or did not do is information that isn't available to us. All we really know is that he was behind the scenes, influencing events. For all we know, he could have been some pivotal general or scientist in the struggle or not, it doesn't really matter. The ultimate point of all that is that these disasters convinced him to take direct rule over the species instead of the whole "influence from the sides" thing. The Emperor in fact bans AI as soon as gets into power, an obvious move meant to stop the whole thing from repeating itself.

>>95970555
>The Emperor in fact bans AI as soon as gets into power, an obvious move meant to stop the whole thing from repeating itself.
Yet there are technological factions in "modern" 40k that do use AI to little ill effect.
Almost as if it's all bad writing trying to retroactively justify a bad imitation of Dune...

>>95970576
>Yet there are technological factions in "modern" 40k that do use AI to little ill effect.
So what? The effect it had on humans was bad so his solution was to get rid of it. It's a value judgement, not some kind of universal law. Why exactly the machines revolted isn't something that's explored at all. The event, like in Dune, is just a framing device really. Maybe the other species just figured out a better way to coexist with AI.

>>95967690
>>95967853
See the pic. Imperium doesn't rule even a fraction of a fraction of the Galaxy. They barely control systems within their 'domain' and their "domain' is mostly holes within which other, smaller empires exist, in turn, Imperium territory is only a fraction of inhabited systems in the Galaxy and those are only a fraction of systems in the Galaxy as a whole. Then, just take into account, events like Bellrath Crusade or Macharian Crusade where Imperium was conquering entire regions that didn't receive contact since before Age of Strife and the limits of Astronomican and you get a pretty clear picture: Emperor didn't conquer jack shit. Imperium is currently larger than it was at the heyday of Great Crusade and it's still discovering new systems from before Age of Strife inhabited by Humans. Emperor's Crusade accomplished nothing, he didn't conquer a fraction of a fraction of the Galaxy, he didn't safeguard Humanity in any real sense, he accomplished literally nothing through out the entire Crusade and in the end only caused new issues, either directly or indirectly.

>>95965923
>The realm of souls is a thing that exists.
> It is also fucked beyond imagining
> It is shaped and powered by the thoughts and emotions of sapient species with psionic potential.
> Lots of problems arise because the warp is turbofucked
> Big E: "Maybe I can stabilize the warp by destroying every other species that is unconsciously contributing to it? Turn it into a reflection of mankind instead of being a discordant reflection of everything? At that point all I'd need to do is unify and socially engineer humanity to erase the Chaos gods and bring the warp into an ordered state."
At least, that's what I personally imagine his thought process was.

>>95956978 (OP)
I want to molest the twink emperor

>>95962661
kek