Purge the Demon Edition

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>Thread Question
Forget Sorcerers and Werewolves, when was the last time you were involved with Hunters? And who are the coolest Hunters? Imbued? Shih? Ghost Hunters?

>>95956861
They're losing their grip on humanity. With so many moving parts even the technos are struggling to understand it.
Basically they're slowly turning Kafka where it's a a machine that runs without their input and there are heads that reap rewards without actually helping the people.

>>95957404 (OP)
>Purge the Demon Edition

>>95957404 (OP)
>who are the coolest Hunters?
Inquisitors, and it's not even a contest. They're better in every way than imbued, period.
Shih take 20 years to train up to starting character level and using their powers kills them, so even though they're cool they're also kind of fucked.
Ghost hunters are just kids with flashlights and a youtube channel.

>>95956861
>mages, vampires, wolves, and true believers grow linearly
Anon, the number of mages, vampires, and TF believers can grow exponentially just as humans can, the issue is that the modern world was built by the technocracy to stop that. Techies are absolutely able to keep nabbing freshly awakened scientists at the new exponential population rate, so that explanation isn't enough.
If anything, the technocracy should be growing in power right now with the inclusion of so many hyper-tech advances into the mainstream consensus. The idea they're getting weaker gets more retarded as tech advances.

Anyone knows if Mark's recent RPGs are Vaporware?

>>95957739
Who the fuck is mark and why should we care? If it's not WoD/CofD then you can fuck right off.

>>95957404 (OP)
>when was the last time you were involved with Hunters?
One of the PCs in the mixed-splat campaign that I played in was a Lucifuge, but he eventually retired him to play a vampire.

Early in that same campaign, we wound up in possession of a small trunk which had belonged to some independent monster hunter who'd been killed by some kind malign spirit. It contained a number of minor magical trinkets along with a list of things he'd been looking into which kicked off several story threads.

Later in the campaign, we were looking into a group of hunters whom we believed might actually be Hunters; but they wound up getting slaughtered by a pack of Get of Fenris who'd come up from Seattle.

>>95957739
you mean lostlorne? i assume so. they posted about there being a "revival" of the game (that wasn't even out yet) in november got no interaction at all on twitter and haven't posted anything else so far

>>95957704
They grow linearly because unlike simply being born all those factions are exactly that, and need indoctrination and ideology. A master can only teach so many students, a technocrat can only induct and track so many potential destinies, even with magic and time manipulation. At least that’s how I rationalize the meta-narrative. Unintended consequences + old farts with old ideas and rigid power structures in a very loose and uncontrolled world.

>>95957404 (OP)
>TQ
I'm playing in an HtV game right now. Vigil's probably my favorite game of the bunch, I also think it has the best "take" on the concept, since it covers everything from normies with shotguns to government agencies to ancient mystic orders. I'm not the biggest fan of 2e's shift towards "the code", though that's a broader annoyance with a lot of late 2e nWoD/CofD. I'm not a big fan of mechanics that reward you for a certain type of play. It's still Vigil though and I'm a fan of a good amount of the new compacts and conspiracies.

If I had to pick an oWoD example I'd say straight up Hunters Hunted.

>chronicles combat and mechanics
>oWoD lore and powers
>v5 in the trashcan

How the fuck do you make for a good exp and progression system though I don’t think any edition did it well.

>>95957404 (OP)
>when was the last time you were involved with Hunters?

Last time I saw Inquisitors directly I had to rescue one of the members of my organization from them and they Torpor'd my second in command, Indirectly we've been playing tic tac toe with people in government, I put people in, they mysteriously disappear because of Hunters and so forth and so forth.

>>95958193
If you want to make a custom exp system, basically you need to determine what dots cost how much exp, and how that exp is then gained. There's a lot of questions that go into it. Do you want the cost to scale like oWoD or do you want it to be flat? Is exp gain set at a fixed rate or are their things that can be done for players to gain more?

Better question is, what progression systems from classless games do you actually like?

>>95958193
VTM is not about XP progression. It's about character progression in the chronicle.

>>95958225
Every game is about xp progression. Any game that tries to drop xp in favor of narrative progression becomes complete garbage without fail.

Do the Triatic Wyrms have Maejin listed anywhere?
Defiler Wyrm technically has one (if you squint) in the ToJ where Pentex is unified under a Corporate Bane, I just wondred if similar was true for Beast-Of-War and Eater-Of-Souls.

>>95958384
WtA20 book of the wyrm puts some of the urge/elemental Maeljin pulling double-duty as triatic maeljin.
The apathy maeljin also represents the eater of souls for example.

>>95958311
In VTM the progression come from advancing the story. The more you advance the story, the older you get. The older you get, the stronger you get. The diference is that players don't beeline towards higher levels without taking higher story risks.

>>95958506
>checks xp reward conditions
>advancing the story is only 1 of 5 ways to get xp
Do you exclusively play mind's eye theatre?

muscle tremere

Can the quiet of a marauder change, or is it set permanently?

>>95958541
>Can the quiet of a marauder change, or is it set permanently?
There are a couple who got their shit together.

How do you make Hunters, mundane or Imbued, a big threat to Mages?
In this case, assume they're somewhat experienced mages with at least 3 dots in their preferred spheres. They're also already at the stage of being paranoid enough to have things like amulets/minor wonders and rituals active at any time they go out.
What options do we have?
Weaponize Paradox? Pretty sure there's a Hunter edge that forces it. Also Imbued count as sleepers.
Equip them with stolen/borrowed Hypertech?
Throw them by the dozen?

>Anatoly Yuryevich Moskvin (Russian: Aнaтoлий Юpьeвич Mocквин, romanized: Anatolj Jur'evič Moskvin; born 1 September 1966) is a Russian former linguist, philologist, and historian who was arrested in 2011 after the mummified bodies of twenty-nine women and young girls between the ages of 3 and 29 were discovered in his apartment in Nizhny Novgorod.[1][2][3][4][5] After exhuming the bodies from local cemeteries, Moskvin mummified the bodies himself before dressing and posing them around his home.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoly_Moskvin

>>95958659
>Moskvin's parents, who shared the apartment with him, knew of the mummies but mistook them for large dolls.
How?

>>95958650
Hitting them in public where the Mage can’t whip out his spheres without exploding

>>95958680
That's just bullshit. They knew, but people preferred to go after the major freak and spare his old parents.

>>95958659
>In 2005, Oleg Riabov, a fellow academic and publisher, commissioned Moskvin to summarize and list the dead in more than 700 cemeteries in forty regions of Nizhny Novgorod Oblast.[17] Moskvin claimed that over the next two years, he had gone on foot to inspect 752 cemeteries across the region, walking up to 30 km (18.6 miles) a day.[10] During these travels, he drank from puddles, spent nights in haystacks and at abandoned farms, or slept in the cemeteries themselves, even going so far as to spend a night in a coffin being prepared for a funeral.
kek

>>95957674
>20 years for shih

10 to 15, and spending chi only does dice of bashing damage, which is a far cry from killing yourself. Meanwhile, inquisitors' powers of faith are basically nonfunctional against Garou and Fera, because they only have a chance of making the changer in question calm, which does not prevent them from killing the inquisitors.

>>95958680
Oh, look, there's a video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep8wcPP0kp4

>>95958685
But then all the mage needs to do is use coincidental effects.
For example, he runs into an alley and teleports with Correspondence. Coincidental, because he simply slipped away. There's windows and a manhole there, who says he didn't just go in there?
Getting shot at? Forces to deviate the bullets. Coincidental, because "the shooter isn't that good" or even better "he's a psychotic active shooter firing into a crowd."
People underestimate how easy is to actually justify coincidental effects as long as you don't use the same bullshit over and over.

>>95958522
1 point for attendance
1 point for show character growth
1 point for correct interpretation of nature/demeanor
1 point for teatrics
1 point for antics
1 point for sucess
1 point for danger
1 point for wisdom

Everything, except attance, happens when you engage the world and move the story forward. If your character just manages his "ristorante" for 10 sessions, you're getting nothing.

>>95958734
>inquisitors' powers of faith are basically nonfunctional against Garou and Fera
Anon, inquisitor power and short-hand TF rating are not the same thing. For an extreme example: A judge inquisitor could bath Manhattan in holy fire by Singing.
Read DA: Inquisition + Companion. A TF rating is the same things as when VtM calls werewolves "Lupines" and gives them disciplines.

>>95958659
>His main areas of academic interests were Celtic history and folklore, as well as languages and linguistics.[12][13] Moskvin had a deep interest in cemeteries, burial rituals,[8] death,[10][11] and the occult.[11][12][13] He kept a personal library of over 60,000 books and documents,[12] as well as a large doll collection.[11] Fellow academics described Moskvin as both a genius[12] and an eccentric.[8]
Euthanatos in the making

>>95958786
nta, what is your point?

That's not advancing with age, that's advancing for doing things. Virtually every exp system is some type of shorthand for the growth and development that occurs when someone is doing something challenging, or at the very least engaging. VtM is hardly special in "doing things gets you more exp" even if it is far more granular about it than most. More importantly, few of these have to do with age. By this system, a vampire who sits around doing nothing for 100 years will be weaker than a particularly ambitious and on-task Neonate of 10.

>>95958814
He was a brighter, weirder, brucato.

>>95958786
Anon, that list you posted has nothing to do with what's actually under "awarding experience" in the V20 book.
Not to mention xp between session and end of story are separated out. Wisdom/Danger/Success only matter at the end of the story. Every chapter/session player gain xp by 1. attending, 2. learning something, 3. Roleplaying, 4. doing something heroic. 3 of 4 of those can be done ignoring the intended story entirely.
Not that you should ignore the story, but claiming that xp is built up solely by advancing the story is retarded

>>95958650
>How do you make Hunters, mundane or Imbued, a big threat to Mages?
You don't unless the whole scenario is mostly bullshit or the group doesn't have something to cover more mundane combat.

The new NMD CtL supplement, Book of Courts, is out. It gots more on the seasonal courts, a chunk of new entitlements, 4 additional courts groups with contracts, some stuff about what happens when the seasonal courts don't change, and then an appendix of mechanical updates for some of the other courts in other books.

If you have Book of Seemings, or the new Carthian book you can get a discount.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/527524/book-of-courts

>>95958826
I didn't mean to imply that you just get things because you're older. Older vampires are stronger because they got to do more things. It's like being a bounty hunter. The older ones are the best because they managed to survive what killed the rest.

On my tables, we have limited time to play. So we do a lot of prep between sessions to get rid of the mundane things (how do you feed? where do you usually go? what do you usually do?). We also want people to be doing something other than just playing "the sims". We want people to engage with the story and the scenario. We won't, for instance, give you xp for interpretation if you only talk with your ghoul.

>>95958798
Yeah forgot for a moment since the SoL is also referred to as Inquisitors. Also because most comparisons are between modern day hunter groups, which the Shadow Inquisition really isn't at this point.

Still, you're discounting that shih can soak lethal and agg with their full Stamina without the need of any special powers or spending resources. That does wonders for survivability. Shih also get to recover chi as a matter of course, and can potentially access more in emergencies. Regaining Conviction is a bit more complicated. And this is before getting into the Qiao.

(Or the Trumpet of Meru, but I suppose mentioning that ToJ scenario is cheating.)

>>95958786
>1 point for teatrics
>1 point for antics
I'm not sure that's something I want to reward/encourage.

>>95958977
Technically, the SoL is supposed to use DA: Inquisitor's mechanics, All people with a TF rating are supposed to according to DAInq(including non-christian TF, just with a different piety chart)
It's true that shih have a lot of cool stuff, but the shih have the same weakness most numen do. They're hyper-reliant on xp-expensive powers and dicepools.
The only thing an inquisitor really needs to spend xp on is his humanity virtues(because they limit his superior virtue caps). Everything else, including the dicepools for his powers, can be bought with conviction, and inquisitors can generate+bank a shit-ton of conviction Very quickly(they kind of have to, starting inquisitors are squishy as fuck).

>>95958923
>a chunk of new entitlements
I went long enough to forget CtL named them this and that gave me a giggle.
Why does chronicles have so many meme-able names? It's like the writers saw wraith unironically call itsevil stat "Angst" and said "I can do so much Worse"

>>95959086
Because words can mean more than one thing and they like to pick names where more than one meaning applies. It's not coincidental.

Can a Wraith solo a Neonate with no dots in Necromancy?

>>95959130
Yes.If the vampire doesn't have necromancy against a wraith, he's fucked. Add necromancy and suddenly the wraith is fucked.

>>95959113
Something being done intentionally doesn't mean it was a good idea.

>>95959044
t. Ventrue that never does anything fun.

>>95958777
>snipes him from a high window a mile away while he’s in a crowded market on a day ending in a dice roll I made 17 times until it coincided with the number of heads I flipped a month prior at the time of whatever a random lady said when I asked her for a number between 1 and 1000

>>95959157
Sure, but the thing you're like "haha entitlement like a sense of deservedness" is half the reason they're named like that because they come with that sort of entitlement. Might as well call it the thing that it is.

>>95958311
I say you could do both, for example when you finish an arc you get a fat chunk of XP, since at most in a typical session you get five XP the GM should hand out triple when finishing an arc and quadruple if the resolution was really fucking cool.

Where can I find the big dick merit, bros?

>>95958838
>Being a heroic and good person gets you more xp and advances you faster
>Acting like too much of a dick is punished by a wide range of mechanics And social consequences
>WoD is still somehow falling to corruption and Evil is the strongest faction in all games somehow
Make it make sense.

>>95957404 (OP)
OwO

In CtD does your average commoner consider themselves part of the court? Or are the courtiers just the dickheads who took over the freeholds?

>>95957404 (OP)
>when was the last time you were involved with Hunters?
My players did a really fucking terrible job of covering their tracks so a band of vampire hunters was the antagonist I'd have planned for them to go up against, but the chronicle petered out before that ;_;

Why is Vampire: The Requiem 2e so much more expensive than 1e?

>>95960618
One is premium, one is standard.

>>95960618
>Why is Vampire: The Requiem 2e so much more expensive than 1e?
The interns were dismissed before they could adjust the prices.

>>95960618
Standard quality prints are like $7 base with 6¢ a page and premiums are like $8 and 11¢. It's just a more expensive printing method but you get better colour accuracy and saturation.

>>95960658
Well that just makes me question why they don't have a standard color version of 1e.
If I were to get into the game, which edition is better and why?

>>95959058
It's kinda weird that the messenger version is so nerfed compared to the True Faith version of hunters. You could reasonably expect an advocate knight of acre to take on a werewolf adren in 1 vs 1(not that a werewolf is every alone), but the imbued are pathetic, even the "Extremists".

>>95960721
DTRPG fucked around with POD options at some point so they just might not be able to.

I think 2e is the one to go for by a mile, honestly. But you might like 1e more, it's hard to say. I'd go look in the links in the OP and flick through the core book PDFs first to decide. This question will probably start a fight here too so I'd do you're own research.

If you are to go for 1e you'd also need the core New World of Darkness book too. VtR 1e doesn't contain the core ruleset, just the extra stuff Vampire needs. Which is good and bad.

>>95957404 (OP)
What's the difference between the Abyss and Oblivion and all the weird layers? I've been trying to get into WoD recently and I don't understand these concepts other than Oblivion seems to be a big mouth that eats everything and the Abyss is just Lovecraft darkness? V5 also seems to conflate them together as a single place, sort of?

>>95960756
>What's the difference between the Abyss and Oblivion and all the weird layers?
Not gonna lie, most of the writers have no idea either.

>>95960751
I have the the New World of Darkness corebook, as I used to play Hunter: The Vigil 1e quite a bit back in the day.
Looking to dive back in to CofD. I already updated to Hunter 2e and thought about trying VtR, as I've slowly realized I like its setting more than VtM.

>>95960786
Well that's comforting in a way, I suppose.

>>95960756
>What's the difference between the Abyss and Oblivion and all the weird layers?
You're going to have to specify which "Abyss", there are 3 of them and they all relate to oblivion somehow.

>>95960756
>V5 also seems to conflate them together as a single place, sort of?
V5 conflates a lot of things that have nothing to do with each other. Do what most of the community does and chuck any "lore" from V5 into the trash where it belongs.

>>95960861
The one Lasombra draw on.

>>95960859
Memes aside, like >>95960861 They are basically different sections of Oblivion sometimes overlapping with other supernatural realms. Think of Oblivion as a hole where everything will eventually fall into and the different layers/versions of the Abyss, Labyrinth or whatever as regions that are about to fall into Oblivion.
Oblivion also acts as a weird ass take on Abzu, but evil.

>>95960929
It's the same from Wraith, think The Darkness from the game or comic The Darkness™. Its just evil and madness made into ink.

>>95960756
The “Abyss” isn’t a place it’s a concept.
In Vampire the Abyss is a mysterious and strange other full of eldritch beings that shouldn’t be associated with Lasombra (the Antediluvian) who is implied to have fucked around and found out. Mage also has similar but not references to such a place, or various places between places that it could be. It could be that the Abyss the vampires fuck around with is just a lot of different but similar discarded realities or reflections or corruptions or any number of things. Demon the Fallen has an Abyss but it’s very different and perhaps the only “actual” Abyss in that it is simply nothing but it’s also a defined and real place. It was a prison created for the Fallen where there is simply nothing at all but the Fallen and what scraps fall in from Haven (the Underworld). It’s important to say that the Abyss whether it’s the Vampire one or the Demon one is full of demons but only the DtF Abyss is actually full of Demons. Infernalism is intentionally messy, all stories are wrong, being told by biased narration so even the Demon the Fallen Abyss might actually be the same Abyss the Vampires know, but it’s the changed perspective and insanity of the Fallen that makes it seem so different by comparison, or maybe they’re completely different places entirely. Any malevolent or at least dangerous unknown entity typically is typecast as a “Demon” and that may or may not be true. A lot of the time it isn’t and it’s just a powerful spirit, a thing from the primordial darkness, or it could just be a Mage that found personal ascension and went mad with that, or any other number of things really. In regards to Oblivion, rather than being nothing, like even the Demon the Fallen Abyss is, because it’s still a place you can exist in, it’s a concept as well as a space you can touch it’s just empty, Oblivion is Nothing. It is the opposite of Something. Not even a shadow exists in Oblivion.

>>95960984
The Abyss of Vampire is the Fomorian realm. It's why the Lasombra begot the Kiyasid.

>>95961151
You can interpret it that way, but a Mage will interpret that different and an actual Demon (Fallen) will look at both of them and go “who the fuck are you get off my lawn”

>>95960984
I like to think the WoD is made of the still-functional bits sewn together from the corpses of failed realities. The various "Abysses" are the bits that didn't make the cut and were left to rot away in oblivion.
Or at least that's how I explain why the past for so many splats are completely incompatible. I like to think it's less retarded than the revised era take of "Each splat is its own universe and characters randomly fall into different universes, without noticing, whenever it's convenient to the plot". WTf are the writers in whitewolf smoking?

>>95961250
>WTf are the writers in whitewolf smoking?
A lot of shit

>>95957404 (OP)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1xhi2mi5cfk&pp=ygUTc2FqYSBib3lzIHlvdXIgaWRvbA%3D%3D
I think the Wyrm has found a new tactic

>>95961273
>"New" tactic
Anon, the wyrm has been doing this since the invention of music.

>>95961273
>>95961273
Weird coincidence how Netflix made two shows that fit into the Beast Court's side of WoD.But yeah, demon celebrities have been a thing for a pretty long while.

>>95961307
>Anon, the wyrm has been doing this since the invention of music.
But not with this specific kind of music!
I think the guy wants to talk about recent things to crossover with WoD but the hook was kinda shit not gonna lie

I'm thinking of putting together a Demon the Fallen campaign for my buddies; none of us have ever actually been involved in any ST games before. I finished reading through all the DtF material in the mega and I cannot believe how fucking shitty the DtF Time of Judgment scenarios were. Completely unimaginative, threadbare plotting, and didn't even bother to try to incorporate any of the actual hanging plot hooks from previous materiel like Usiel becoming a Kurdish death god, or picking up the LA story threads to make it the flashpoint in it. Seems like they literally couldn't be bothered to do real work on it. That being said, is there any community stuff that might either give better ToJ scenarios, or else elaborate on DtF's setting in general?

I started lighting this piece! Going for something more stylized.

>>95961427
To make it the flashpoint *of a scenario*, my bad.

>>95961273
Would that make HUNTR/X a Weaver plot or is there a less jank explanation?

>>95961417
Shifty hook indeed, it’s just I got wod vibes when the evil boy band sung

>>95961307
>>95961351
Has it managed to sing so good that people will zombie-ingly walk themselves into the maw of Eater-of-Souls?

>>95961454
I think they’re just hunters anon

>>95961469
>Has it managed to sing so good that people will zombie-ingly walk themselves into the maw of Eater-of-Souls?
Haven't gotten to that part yet.
>>95961474
They feel like Shih or some Weird Kami.

>>95961508
>They feel like Shih
This. They're asian, so unironically they're much less likely to be imbued.

>>95960847
Do you like the changes to the core rules and format from 1e to 2e? If you do, and you think that the basic vampire template should be a little meatier than you'd get in oWoD, and would like the Discplines to be a little more interesting, I'd go with 2e. I would still take a look at both in the Mega in the OP though.

>>95960847
VtR2e is generally an upgrade to 1e, it heavily toned down things like Predator's Taint and Fog of Eternity that made Requiem kind of a bitch to play in practice. (of course if you liked those things best stick to 1e)

The disciplines are really well balanced, strong without being busted, very few dead levels and good balance between the three physicals. Not a huge fan of evoking the beast but it's a fairly minor thing. 2e leans a little too heavily into the Strix as a main antagonist but pretty much all your 1e favorites have either gotten updates or can be easily translated over.

>>95961641
No, they are not Imbued because their powers don't suck.

How much do werewolves respect kinfolk? I get that that the Fera and shifters of world of darkness pretty get the retard tag, but would they be stupid enough to murder a kinfolk that had like 5 temporary renown or something similar for strongly disagreeing with them or calling them out for a foolish action? No context for disagreeing or foolish action, just using it as an example where a Garou might do something idiotic like murder an extremely proficient kinfolk over something petty

>>95961714
>How much do werewolves respect kinfolk?
Very little. They see kinfolk in the same way you or I would see a small child. Valued family, but also a considerable danger to themselves and far too dumb/uninformed to take seriously in matters meant for "Adults".
>would they be stupid enough to murder a kinfolk
No. Werewolves are a Dying race and murdering kinfolk is a good way to loss reknown Fast. See above for the "small Child" analogy and think how your family would react if you had a baby brother you murdered in cold blood for "disagreeing with you".

>>95961714
>How much do werewolves respect kinfolk?
About as much as a CEO respects the janitor or a farmer respects their cattle. It varies, but it's mostly some variation of "I hate you less than the rest of the world, even if you are still a massive disappointment."
>No context for disagreeing or foolish action, just using it as an example where a Garou might do something idiotic like murder an extremely proficient kinfolk over something petty
Killing high end kinfolk costs like 2-4 temporary Honor or something you can make up with a single mission. Ditto for other kinds of abuse like mauling their faces or whatever.

>>95961743
>See above for the "small Child" analogy and think how your family would react if you had a baby brother you murdered in cold blood for "disagreeing with you".
A human kin lost is like wasting 15 years of effort because you stubbed your toe. Killing a wolf kin is a lot cheaper, but the rarity will attract the other werewolves.

>>95961743
>>95961744
So no matter if the Kinfolk proves themselves enough to get renown the werewolves would still see them as children or not worthy? I can see why some get silly enough to become a skin walker.

>>95961714
>How much do werewolves respect kinfolk?
Depends on the tribe and the individual werewolf. Not every single werewolf is a Garou supremacist who treats kinfolk, some of whom are likely to be their literal family through blood or through marriage, like a servant caste. Such werewolves do exist, but for every one of them, there's another werewolf who tries to cherish and protect his kinfolk however he can.

>>95961775
>So no matter if the Kinfolk proves themselves enough to get renown the werewolves would still see them as children or not worthy?
The amount of stuff you would need to get a crumb of respect as a kinfolk is really out there to the point that being a kinfolk at that point would be a footnote in a Sorcerer/Hunter/Whateverthefuck character's bio rather than their main thing.

Several threads back someone brought up the idea of "werehumans", and that just popped back into my head.

>>95961963

>>95961963
>Several threads back someone brought up the idea of "werehumans", and that just popped back into my head.
That's just a life Mage.

>>95958528
Someone should do an Undertaker meme for this
>Undertaker: Cain
>Guy In Front of Undertaker: Greatest Mightiest Kevin.

>>95961429
Impressive work!

>>95960231
Most of them just don't give a shit about it because the nobles are so far up their asses they don't see the rest of the world.

>>95961427
I recommend looking for some Lore reimaginings personally. The Lores are quite restrictive and worse roll off attribute + ability when you’re a fuckin Demon. The 2019 Lores are ok but arguably worse for making Willpower a god-stat. What we do is
1. Allow WP to be used to activate Apocalypse form if you have 0 faith
2. Make the rolls for activating Lores be Lore Rating + Faith or Torment
3. Make Torment effects occur if half or more of the successes are equal to or less than your Torment rating

(For example, if your Torment is 6 and you roll 4, 5, 5, 6, 6, 6, 7, you get the Torment version of the Lore because you got 4 successes and 3 of them were a 6. If you rolled instead 2, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 9 you use the normal version of the Lore because you got 3 successes and only one was a 6. Basically means 1-5 torment you can reliably control your power, at 6-7 you start becoming a bit unreliable, and at 8-9 you’re basically constantly unable to do anything but rage and hate

>>95962206
>2. Make the rolls for activating Lores be Lore Rating + Faith or Torment
The way I prefer is to either let the player roll attr + ability (representing using the knowledge the host possesses of modern creation to ease the evocation) or pure faith (brute forcing the power of creation like the good old days), with the caveat that attr + ability can't botch (so you don't lose faith for fucking up that way)
The intent behind it is to both provide for avenues to specialize in certain lores, while also providing a cushion minimum amount of dice you can roll for evocations you otherwise don't have the stats for.

>>95961250
Have you read Hundred Star Shower from Demon Hunter X? It's not even a power as such; it's a combat maneuver that costs two Yin Chi. It gives you a minimum of a dozen rolls of Strength +1 agg for one attack that takes two actions, difficulty 6 to hit.

Also, it uses Dex + Firearms to hit. With throwing weapons.

>>95961963
>werehuman
The opening to Devilman Crybaby?

>>95959058
Was there ever official word that DAI material should be used for modern SoL games? I'm not doubting you, as noted above, WW did some crazy shit back in the day.

>>95961775
Kinfolk don't get Renown like Garou, because they're not included in the pact that the Garou have with spirits. Kinfolk Renown is more like a reputation background.

Really, the best comparison of Garou to Kin might be Hedy Lamarr in WW2. Brilliant scientist, groundbreaking researcher, but the US military wanted her out in USO keeping up morale with singing and dancing. She still did research (it's why our torpedoes managed to skip past Nazi defenses), but at the time, she absolutely would not be recognized for it, and even today, you might not have necessarily heard about her. And that's about the Kin situation - recognized for keeping the people around by doing non-combatant background stuff and supporting Garou, pretty much never for anything else.

Anons, I am trying to find where it is mentioned a large amount of people, like 50, is immune to Delirium, but I can't find it.
I checked W20 Core, Revised Core, Player's Guide to Garou, Player's Guide to Changing Breeds etc.

Am I blind? Wiki is no help since their 3 citations are just general Delirium stuff (Hysteria for HTR)

>>95962505
W:tA gave a statistics of 0.5% of people having Willpower 10 and thus not being affected by the Delirium. I'd place it notably lower, but that's the number given in the book.

>>95961714
>be stupid enough to murder a kinfolk
In general, no, as it could have a lot of complicating factors behind it. Kinfolk are family, so that means the one you murder will have a very angry relation who now wants your blood for killing their sibling/parent/child/cousin/spouse, especially over something so slight as calling you out. It's also a potential litany violation "respect those beneath you". Wereolves are political creatures, so taking such a drastic action in response to such a minor event would cost them a big loss of renown, they will probably face some rite of punishment (losing further renown), now have a bad relation with the rest of the caern's kinfolk (losing them further renown), etc. Despite those points, with Rage any dumb action is possible and a kinfolk, even a respected one, calling you dumb in front of others necessitates a rage roll.

>>95962556
I know that, that's not what I am asking.
For several years I have heard that a gathering of large group of humans is immune to delirium, like armies. Never thought about it but now I can't find any source about it.

Is this like Blood Treachery and just a single obscure book thingy? Or worse, just pure headcanon.

>>95962505
It sounds familiar, is suggest looking in the older core books as they had more rules regarding rage. The Curse doesn't even get mentioned in the newer stuff. I almost want to say it might be in the Dark Ages books where massed combat is more likely.

>>95962574
Rokea are the exception, as they tend to kill their human kinfolk as well as any rokea that sired them
The same-bito(asian rokea) dont do this, but nobody really cares about them, and other rokea hunt them as well

>>95958923
Oh, neat. I forgot that DTRPG still sold
ST-Vault stuff. Somehow i thought the NMD guys did Curseborne.
Shame that there is no way of knowing if it is any good though, but oh well. It's not that expe... aaand it's 23 dollars. I won't pay 23 dollars for homebrew. Book of Seemings was great, but come the fuck on.

>>95959086
Entitlements are based and perfectly named for what they are. Every changeling should have an Entitlement, dropping and taking up new ones all the time. Just to go full schizo and behave like diet Gentry. It's not like most non-changelings could tell the difference anyhow. Even Goblins and Gentry can't.
Fuck, now i want to play a changeling who's entitlement is to housebreak hedgebeasts, werewolfs, beast changelings and other barely sapient critters

>>95962724
I checked 1st Edition Core and Dark Ages: Werewolf 1st Edition and 2nd Edition. No mention.

The only interesting thing is that it implies Delirium is weaker in the Medieval times in 2nd Edition Dark Ages Werewolf. Which is stupid since it should be the opposite.

>>95962765
Yeah, I did some digging on the wiki and they added the bit about 50+ mortals being immune to the delirium in 2016. So, if you were to be generous and assume that it is actually sourced from somewhere it would be from W20. Maybe there is an obscure rule for gaining temporary willpower when in groups? I also skimmed Spoils of War for Dark Ages. Under it's large-scale battle rules it states that even in formation individuals are susceptible to the Delirium like normal, meaning the unit will likely break. Any individuals who are immune will launch an attack on the Garou immediately. However a Garou doing so rends the veil, so it's a no-no.

>>95962787
The wiki has three sources for the page, none of them reference immunity for large groups. People who know stuff about the occult are more resistant, and there's probably a hunter Edge which allows them to make allies immune to the delirium, but it seems entirely like a house-rule they added in, unless someone else can actually source it.

>>95962787
I am leaning towards it being homebrew/headcanon more and more. Even the Werewolf in Battlefield section of Dark Ages 2nd Edition doesn't have anything.

>>95962252
Faith only is pretty brutal, consider how expensive it is to raise after all.

>>95962949
Yeah, that's the trade off. Focus on cultivating your human vessel's skills to get better a few evocations at a time, or spend way longer upping Faith to make them all better. Definitely better than the easily upped Willpower for a god stat.
As I said, it's mainly meant to be a backup for using evocations you haven't yet/don't intend to spec into.
Lore rating + Faith seems way too strong for me. Gives way too much dice at a minimum to everything. Having the potential power of evocations scale along with the rating itself removes interesting decision making involving opportunity costs for where to spend xp.
It also serves as a bit of a buff/easier management of Earthbound/strong Fallen NPCs for the ST, because it means you can just use their high faith ratings as a shorthand for how much dice they should roll for lore, and also means you don't have to min max their skills to make sure they can do all the things you want them to be capable of.

>>95962970
Honestly, Mastery alone makes most Earthbound stronger than 99% of normal Demons and really, most Player characters in general.
They don't really need more help.

>>95958659
Thanks, you sent me down a rabbit hole, and the combined willpower damage from reading about Moskvin, Chikatilo, and Perestroika has sent me headfirst into a Caul of my own making.

>>95963019
True, but that's a different beast of balance entirely. This is more about at least making sure they can perform basic ass evocations with a decent number of dice.

>>95960076
My Apartment by Night (held by my cat)

>>95960076
Distinguishing feature

>>95961250
>"Each splat is its own universe and characters randomly fall into different universes, without noticing, whenever it's convenient to the plot"
The problem is the two most prominent splats, VtM and WtA, are completely non-functional if you take their world-building and basic cosmology as written. MtA just makes it even worse.

Apparently we're supposed to believe that Vampires are agents of the Wyrm and everything they do is meant to be another aspect of entropy, despite the fact that they're entirely static and outside of needing to drink blood every once in a while, they are the exact opposite of Entropy. Ironically they have more in common with the Weaver or even the Wyld due to them being control over chaos.

In the context of WtA Caine and God are just some lesser occurrences, despite Caine literally creating death in every other splat and causing massive unheavals. They also disregard his state as something that's the result of Wyrm taint in some books, despite the fact that if taken at face value in VtM he'd blast open the Wyrm's ass and there's nothing any of the Triat could really do about it.

Outside of WtA the concept of Gaia and the Triat is pretty much non-existent, which brings into question what the fuck Pentex is supposed to be in other splats, and how it exists in regards to things like the Technocracy. I highly doubt the science-powered mage faction of reason would allow a global-spanning company that turns your breakfast cereal into a vector for psychopathy to exist in any shape.

>>95963177
Because WTA, and really Garou, has no true idea. That why there is even a debate on what Gaia and the Triat is.

>>95963207
Basically woofs are just absolute morons despite being the only gameline that has their own built-in spirit telephones to higher powers that will literally feed them information.

>>95963226
In my own personal WoD, the reality layer cake that got smooshed is real, so they're playing a game of 5D Wiccan Telephone where the starting phrases are all different.

Why the fuck is Deviant so boring?

>>95960098
Heroic doesn't necessarily mean good, you can do something courageous and impressive for evil purposes.

Can someone tell me where it says sorcerers can learn the mummy powers? I want to make sure that's an actual thing and not some by gone first edition thing.

>>95963254
You tell me

>>95963322
I'm trying to read through it since my group's decided to give it a shot but it's so loose and broad with its concepts that I just can't give a shit. It's a flavourless everything-soup that tries so hard to be open and accommodating to any direction the players want to take it in that I don't feel particularly inspired to do anything with it at all. Dull as dishwater.

>>95963254
Deviant (and really most of CofD) is a toolbox sandbox. If you have ST that is capable and willing to use it, it can do great things but for most situations, it is just useless.

>>95963177
Okay, let's break this down.
>Apparently we're supposed to believe that Vampires are agents of the Wyrm and everything they do is meant to be another aspect of entropy
That's what some werewolves believe, though this isn't true for all werewolves. Yes, low-humanity vampires register as being Wyrm-tainted. No, that does not mean that they are servants of the Wyrm. It merely means that they are contaminated with the spiritual residue of death and destruction, and normal people can be contaminated with that same residue through entirely mundane means.
>despite the fact that they're entirely static and outside of needing to drink blood every once in a while, they are the exact opposite of Entropy.
You're fixating on the Triat as a werewolf interpretation of the Metaphysical Trinity. The Wyrm is not just Entropy, the Weaver is not just Stasis. Death, destruction, blood, decay, pain and misery are all aspects of the Wyrm, and a lot of those are important aspects of the lives that most vampires lead, whereas not every vampire has a strong connection to the dogma, science, banality, logic, conformity, and control of the Weaver.
>In the context of WtA Caine and God are just some lesser occurrences, despite Caine literally creating death in every other splat and causing massive unheavals.
As far as some werewolves know and care, though this isn't true for all werewolves. The truth behind Caine isn't relevant to Werewolf the Apocalypse so Werewolf the Apocalypse doesn't go into detail about his objective connection to the setting's cosmology.
>I highly doubt the science-powered mage faction of reason would allow a global-spanning company that turns your breakfast cereal into a vector for psychopathy to exist in any shape.
Pentex has always been a Syndicate side-project that grew out of control with the disappearance of the Special Projects Division.

>>95963226
>Basically woofs are just absolute morons despite being the only gameline that has their own built-in spirit telephones to higher powers that will literally feed them information.
How do you define higher powers? The Triat? Werewolves can't communicate with those, only their incarnae. Celestines? Werewolves can't communicate with those, only their incarnae. Incarnae? Are you assuming that these beings supply werewolves with objective information, or that they are anything close to all-knowing, or even knowledgeable about anything at all that exists outside of their sphere of influence?
The issue seems to be that you've taken all of the subjective stuff you've read in World of Darkness books and interpreted it all as absolute concrete objective fact. You've looked at some common werewolf beliefs, some of which are outright incorrect, and assumed that they are ironclad truth. You seem familiar with the World of Darkness setting, so I would've thought you would know how readily it makes use of unreliable narrators.

Name a clan that's more one-dimensional than the Tzimisce.

>>95963382
Nah. I've extrapolated based on what the book says because if that's not the way it is WtA is just dogshit where nothing matters.

>>95963388
Brujah

>>95963449
Cool, let's talk about another game then, your choice.

>>95963475
Anon you wall of text responded to me, I was already done.

>>95963292
Sorcerer Revised, I believe Children of Osiris section.

>>95963345
There you go then. You like different things.

>>95963532
Guess I'm trying to understand why they like something so dull.

>>95962475
>Was there ever official word that DAI material should be used for modern SoL games?
Yes, in DAI. The book outlines that Anything with TF should be using the DAI system.

>>95963044
Earthbound don't need the help. Instead of virtues they get this thing called "Urges", which allow them to add up to +5 dots to any attribute and they can switch which attribute they apply to any time they manifest.
Earthbound dicepools are very big already, no homebrew necessary

>>95963388
Followers of Set. Ravnos. Really any of the four independents are one trick ponies.

At least with Tzimisce you can customize what flavor of flesh freak you are.

>>95963388
Tremere, without a shadow of a doubt.

>>95963388
My problem with Tzim is that they're effectively a bunch of random ideas shoved together, none of which work very well. I would never say they're on-note thought, that easily goes to Brujah or Setities, who are so unimaginative that even in-universe they're treated as a joke.

Name five clans, tribes, traditions, whatever, that have always been written in a fair and impartial manner and have never served as a writer's punching bag or obvious favourite.

I was fucking around doing research in a powerscaling thread and I realized the essentially all of Type Moon is nothing more than Nasu's WoD gameboard.

Shit boarders on plagiarism.

>>95963912
>Translation name 5 subfractions so obscure no one bothered to use them or develop them.
The entirety of the Drowned Legacies and Mayan Settities should be enough.

>>95964165
I don't know or care enough about Fate to watch anything besides the porn, how are they similar?

>>95963177
How anyone could think that Vampires are Wyrmish, I don't understand.

>>95962751
I think it's worth the money. Its all as good as official and has some of the CofD freelancers on it. At least the VTR stuff is, I don't like CtL but I hear it's just as solid.

>>95963547
I mean, if you wanted a sincere pitch for what is exciting to some people going "thing is bad" isn't a great way of going about it. You could've said "sell thing to me", or "what's the appeal of thing, I'm not sure I'm getting it". "Thing is bad" is just asking for a slap fight more than an explanation.

>>95964419
Not going to hide my opinion just because fragile people consider negative opinions to be signs of aggression.

>>95964451
It's less that and more just you sound like a troll itching for flame war and not anyone sincerely interested in the opinions of others. It's just not a particularly good way to start a conversation.

>>95963226
Okay, but I'd expect spirits to have the most incentive to lie for the sake of a good legend because the story and impression left by it is part of their own existence.

>>95963254
>>95964451

>>95962787
Should we...fix the wiki? If we are wrong, they could give source and change it back.

>>95964451
NTA but I think that's your problem, you make it sound like you've already made up your mind so no one sees any point in trying to convince you otherwise.

>>95964465
>>95964584
>>95964671
Alright, I'm sorry. I'll remember from now on that stating a negative opinion is a form of trolling in this general.

>>95964754
I appreciate it. Thanks.

>>95962970
Unless you’re doing a very long campaign your players already have to choose between Lores or human ability. If anything, keeping the attribute + ability is a buff. Lore rating + faith is more expensive than attribute + ability because faith is x7 rating and ability is only x2. It’s completely unrealistic to expect a player to spend 28 experience to get to faith 5 when they could have spent that on getting two abilities from three to five or four from one to three. Going past 5 faith will eat up half of a campaign’s experience on its own. It’s cripplingly expensive to only have 5 dice for a roll.

Sorting the Urge Wyrms by Triatic Head, take 1
>Defiler: Power, Paranoia, Lies and Despair
>Eater of Souls: Apathy, Consumption, Desire and Greed
>Beast-of-War: Cruelty, Violence, Fear and Hatred

>>95962970
>>95964967
My point being that if you’re really worried about Lore spam just make them work for learning them. Outside of their three base ones they need a teacher. Per dot. Faith + Lore means on average a player has 3 dice for a lore which is probably worse than if they had attribute + ability. Attributes pulling double duty in powering mortal and supernatural problems is fine in vampire. In demon the third stat, Faith, is already kind of a huge nerf to the players as it’s far harder to come by than Blood and costs a shitton of experience to get more of unless they’re going to Torment-out and start eating other Fallen. Even then it’s unlikely they’ll succeed unless they’re also putting together True Names, and Destroying another Fallen gives a ton of options to the successful player but is also just a chance anyways they might end up with 0 successes on the roll to gain power lol

New Curseborne manuscript is out that's a revision of the Dead's chapter. They've basically rewritten the template's mechanics to be a lot more interesting. A lot more detail on how it all works and a couple of new tricks for them too. The Damnation's rewrite maeks it a load more clear what it's about and it's also more explicit what the Family's want, and there is a new option for it if you've taken the Dead Lineage as your Major Path. There is also a new Torment for them. Paths all got a bit of tweaking too, new motifs and stats and all of that. Fluff is about the same but has been refined somewhat and doesn't second guess itself any more. All of it looks like a pretty solid improvement across the board.

4chan doesn't like PDF uploads now for obvious reasons so have a link
>gofile <dot> io /d/omXnvu


Also one of those new antagonist supplements is out for what look to be the Curseborne Sorcerer equivalent of Mage's Nephandi or Banishers or something, but I've not read it yet.

>>95964186
They unironically stole how vampires work, the spiritual hierarchy of WtA, and "magecraft"/"True Magic".
The platform that launch Fate wasn't even holy grail bullshit, it was tsukihime and garden of sinners, which were a thinly veiled Sorcerer and VtM fan-fiction respectively.

>>95964186
I'll add onto this one with my thoughts
>By sheer coincidence, Fate's world is one where there was a transition from the Age of Fantasy to the Age of Science, with the death of magic as a key theme
>Sorcery vs True Magic is similar, with some sorcerers eventually becoming capable of true magic. Except that true magic is just better than sorcery in every regard.
>Secret societies of wizards and monsters running about
>Vampires are actually werewolves in Fate, don't worry about it
>Except for the Tremere, they're just normal vampires in this one. People who turned themselves into vampires with magic.

By Fate proper the similarities start to fall away, but the coincidences are interesting. I don't think WoD was very well known in Japan at the time.

>>95965292
>Vampires are actually werewolves in Fate
It gets weirder. The vampire-werewolves are the Antedeluvians of Fate.
The original pureblood vampires are called "True Ancestors" and were literally purpose-built to keep human numbers down to protect Gaia(didn't even bother to change the name or "Type Earth").
If they drink a human's blood and the human is allowed to survive, they become a Dead Apostle, a proper VTM style vampire. The strongest Dead apostles are the Apsotle Ancestors, who are basically VtM methusela. Dead apostles even have a generation system where apostles turned by apostles are slightly weaker than their sire.

>>95963292
Sorcerer revised under children of osiris and in mummy 2nd edition.
2nd edition matters because the MtR books reference it for when you want to play one of the remaining Shemsu-Heru, so the rules there are still valid(including the rules on making other supernaturals into mummies).

>>95964311
Ah yes, one of the rarest and most reclusive clans are the poster boys, instead of Venture (modern) or Lasombra/Assamites (dark Ages west/east).

Reverse Side and the Umbra is pretty much the same. Not to mention Human Order aka The Consensus in a trench coat. Counter Force vs Paradox etc.

There are many similarities.

>>95965349
Because they're fucking cool don't be gay

>>95965335
>including the rules on making other supernaturals into mummies
Aka "No to all except werebeasts, and they only get 1 free revive before they become an ancestor spirit". Don't get too exited.

>read bullshits about TYPE-MOON vampires.
Here are some links on the subjects :
https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Dead_Apostle
https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/True_Ancestor

>>95965512
>The remake stole blood potency from VtR
It's poetic really

>>95965356
The Clocktower, Atlas, and Wandering Sea are also literally just the traditions, technocracy, and crafts union with a different name slapped on.
It's honestly easier to count the changes than the similarities. The only 2 major difference I can think of are merging the Garou with the Antediluvians and abandoning the Triat/Essences entirely.

>>95964165
But are Heroic Spirits actually Wraiths?

>>95965708
No, they're High umbral archetypes. It's an actual thing in Fate that the spirits aren't necessarily the actually people, they're people's perception of the legend. That's why Vlad the Impaler was inflicted with vampirism after becoming a heroic spirit.
Genderbent spirits are thanks to gooners.

>>95965359
If they fucked cool their child would be edgy tryhard

Would this make the Root, the Well of Souls equivalent in WoD?

>>95962206
Thanks! The change to torment lore effects is especially useful. I was marveling at how unforgiving the game is for a single poor roll. I'll see what I can find for alternative lores, too; I was really underwhelmed with most of them because of how restrictive the effects were. The only one that felt really powerful at higher dots was Forge, for obvious reasons. If all else fails I'll just make up my own effects to replace the worst offenders.
I'm still trying to get a feel for how quickly characters should gain/lose torment, do you have any insight from your games for how often this should happen?

>>95965885
No, the root would be The One itself from mage.

>>95962252
Do you make it easier for characters to gain faith to offset that? I was thinking about just hiking up potential thralls' faith rating to make faith generation easier, since reaping faith is basically a no-no unless you watch your demon go crazy in record time.

>>95965890
>because of how restrictive the effects were
Look up rituals and demonic items anon. The basic evocations are that, Basic. The system allows you to treat lores like minor mage-spheres if you use the more advanced powers.

>>95965094
Other than not knowing if Motifs are good because we don't have the revised spells, and their health tracking seeming a little borked, I've really liked the changes. I'm so happy they removed so much of Sam going "well it works like that for me anyhow, YMMV" because it made things way more annoying than it had to be.

>>95963388
Name a clan more non-dimensional than the Toreador?

>>95965978
Tremere.

>>95965978
Malkavians.

They somehow exist in negative dimensions.

>>95965905
And also every other idea of what the Tenth Sphere actually is.

>>95961660
Predators Taint is an idea that I like conceptually, but ingame it was really messy. The idea of Vampires being inherently territorial is fun, but in a game with such a big emphasis on social interaction every encounter having a chance for one or more parties to shit their pants and run away was frustrating.

>>95966279
>but in a game with such a big emphasis on social interaction every encounter having a chance for one or more parties to shit their pants and run away was frustrating.
My GM hated it and ignored it for precisely that reason.

>>95964311
Garou cause more damage and chaos than the majority of Cainites ever will.

>>95964623
Do it if you want, there's no consequences. Personally, I don't care if a wiki is wrong because you shouldn't expect them to be right in the first place. Wikis are for generating interest when you know nothing about a subject, reading the books is where you actually learn what's what.

>>95966731
Depends on your values system and how much you want to credit Caine for developing the earliest cities and domesticating humans.

>>95966782
Early cities didn't destroy nature on a scale that mattered, that's an incredibly very recent development.

>>95962735
Ocean-going Rokea kill kadugo on sight. Betweeners do not. It's a part of the "We should make bridges and inroads to land" vs. "Land can go sink, fuck everything" cake that they got handed after pacific nuclear testing killed half of them and started abruptly destroying their previously untouched undersea caerns.

>>95963177
>Vampries are agents of the Wyrm

More like they tried drinking part of it and got its gunk on them, which sticks to everything that they touch if they aren't extra-assiduous to avoid being an asshole. They don't know about spirits, by and large; the only actual active agents of the Wyrm are the ones with the dark thaum path that leads up to letting Maeljin take up resident in their bodies. Everyone else is a dupe, just like the humans who think that they can rule over the wasteland as corporate overlords. They'll all be devoured, in time; it's what the Eater-of-Souls does.

When you're dealing with W:tA, the only advice I can give is disregard all religious horror elements that show up in other games. It's an animistic setting with splatter instead of personal horror, and there's no ironic enjoyment of this. You either go in to the hilt or play a different game. For other games approaching W:tA elements from the outside, they should always feel weird and foreboding, because hanging out with them either results in getting maimed or outright blenderized by Garou or Fera, or by their enemies. And that's if you're lucky and don't end up a victim of the many, many forms of body horror in W:tA instead.

Mage floated the idea that everything was, in fact, separate in Ascension. There was flat out no time or space to ever make concessions in Werewolf; their books are already ably packed to the brim with all that you have to worry about. What the characters of other games are doing is not so important, and you'll find their perspectives better presented in their respective books.

>>95966861
But is it all bad and everything since then has been runaway cascading failures from turning people into livestock and making them think they like self-selecting for it.

>>95963388
>>95965978
setites, ravnos, giovanni

Is there any sane reason why the Masquerade isn't broken beyond repair? A single night of the Sabbat mass embracing a dozen shovelheads should be enough to completely shatter it. Not just "secret government agents know," but "blown wide open and the whole world knows." There's just too many people and too many loose ends for any amount of disciplines or ghouls to keep everything under wraps.

>>95964165
i been ripping off typemoon and especially early Lord El-Melloi II's Case Files' mages as mage npcs and church stuff as inqusitor npcs for years now

>>95967207
media just being overrun with supernaturals and the world just being that much more shit than irl (at the time) is the canon answer given in several revised books

>>95963388
Every clan is exactly as one-dimensional as every other clan.

>>95964754
You didn't state your opinion, you asked others to tell you why your opinion is right which is something only gigantic faggots do.

>>95963177
All of this mess is the big reason they finished out all of the metaplots in Revised and started over with nWoD/CofD, especially since with the new reboot they could create a core system everything ran on as Templates that overlaid over a core Mortal character base.

>>95966731
The majority of Garou worship the Wyrm, so it tracks. Also actually read Vampire, please. The game was made because the writers were in the shitty parts of the Rust Belt and said, "vampires did this".

I feel like people ITT view Garou with excessive negativity out of fear of being associated with furries. At my table the Garou are heroes.

>>95963254
Because you have no imagination.

>>95967207
The technocracy, unironically. The syndicate and NWO ensure the media to cover shit up nationally and the locals get a visit from the funny men in black suits that nobody remembers clearly.
On VtM's own merits, the elder Ventrue cammies can kind of hold things together with lots of bribes that're smoothed over by high levels of presence and dominate, but it's a massive plothole why sabbat territories like mexico and the south americas don't have vamps openly ruling.
WoD as a whole doesn't really work unless you assume the Technocrats exist in all splatlines keeping magic hush-hush.

>>95966861
World of Darkness =/= Real life. The first city was a thing that destroyed man's soul

>>95967207
Whatever explanations you make, at the end of the day it will still require a huge helping of suspension of disbelief.

>>95967343
They're definitely heroes in their own minds. But it's kind of the point that they're also a bit psychotic and have a history of doing very bad things, like wiping out most of the other Gaians.

>>95967379
The funniest part is that the ascendancy of the Garou mirrors Western expansion, domination, and colonialism. All things the people in this thread would celebrate under other circumstances. But when the objective heroes of the setting do it it's time to pearl clutch. Oh no, not our Neanderthal and Amerinidan allies.

>>95965919
The enchanted/demonic items are awesome, which is why I said Lore of the Forge was the only one that didn't disappoint me. I guess with rituals the players can do just about anything so long as they can justify it with the dots of lore they have, as you said. And since I'm a pretty reasonable GM, that will cover most everything they need to do. Thanks again!

Also, I must have missed the explanation of Mastery when reading through everything. Is that in Earthbound?

>>95965512
That's a lot of nonsense, but I've always liked the idea that vampires exist according to their true nature and aren't abominations, especially if that nature is to curb human excess.

>>95958193
Literally just copy the nwod system. There's absolutely no reason to separate dots at character creation and dots after character creation, and beats are a perfectly good system that you can include or not include depending on your preference.

>>95965980
Tremere are one-dimensional, they have character and intrigue, but it's limited
>>95965982
Malkavians are cool af when writers don't fishmalk them

Toreador barely exist in the setting because no one has any interest in doing something with them that they couldn't do with another clan. Even in the Courts of Love, the interesting characters are the non-Torries that can keep pace with the rest.

>>95967450
>Is that in Earthbound?
Yep. Urges are also in earthbound.
If Dicepools look small, remember they can Ravage for extra dice and double check the players guide for apocolyptic form features and the buying features with xp rules. It's possible for even a starting fallen to through 15 dice on their specialized lore, earthbound are able to go even Higher with Urges and Veneration rituals(I've seen an ST Earthbound Monster throw down 35 dice on an evocation)

>>95967498
>remember they can Ravage
*fallen can ravage. A player character can get 15 dice if they specialize, but a more generalist character can get there on a broader range of abilities after a few stories.

>>95967484
>Literally just copy the nwod system.
Nwod was shit too.

>>95967520
Their XP system was literally just better than the owod one and if you disagree you're delusional.

I wish White Wolf would tell players no more often. As in "no, this character concept/idea for a freehold/caern/node etc. doesn't work in this game". I've seen too many "my character is a loser with nothing going for them except some extremely pubic position (the lowest on the totem pole though) and the node is a coffee shop that anyone can enter".

>>95967494
>Malkavians are cool af when writers don't fishmalk them
Fishmalks are awesome when they're not played by disruptive fuckwits. A great example is Bloodlines malkavian, absolute fishmalk done in a fun and clever way.

>>95967334
>The game was made because the writers were in the shitty parts of the Rust Belt and said, "vampires did this".
That's not what it was. Rein-Hagen had the idea of "What if this place was even worse and had vampires." and then transposed the class divide of Gary vs Chicago over it.

>>95967529
Why?
Being a loser with a social position is a perfectly viable niche.

>>95967529
>I wish White Wolf would tell players no more often.
It's them telling players "No" too often that led to the problem you described. The answer to a tranq overdose is not "More Tranq".

New headcanon: all inconsistency is a product of a proto-Technocrat archmaster of Correspondence that forced other night creatures to exist in overlapping, but seperate vibrations of reality. This is why they still exist concurrently, but are only the protagonists amongst each other. Obviously, this was so paradoxical that there needed to be a lot of loopholes to make it work, but the mage still had to be removed from the universe due to backlash.

>>95967532
The bloodlines malkavian would be absolute shit as a player, and/or require an extensive amount if coordination with the ST. The malkavian of vtmb knows how the story ends from the beginning, he knows all the twists and he tells the people with the secret plots and the dark secret that he knows them, in-between doing shit like having a conversation with a stop sign or arguing with his TV or doing extended unfunny comedy bits.

>>95967539
You misunderstand, I mean position as in like "my character works minimum wage/the lowest position in a federal office".
>>95967545
When have they ever actually said no? They seem to constantly capitulate until literally any concept is halal.

>>95967581
Okay but why is it a problem that the player character is a loser?
Why should they institute a rule that says you have to be comfortably middle class?

>>95967603
No, a comfortably middle class character is bad too. What I take issue is with the vampire/werewolf/whatever who is still living like a normal yet underachieving person well into their supernatural life. I've seen it with too many players and too many GMs.

>>95967616
Okay but why is that a problem.

>>95967624
Because it's boring. That's it. Restictivness encourages imagination. Otherwise every character is a Rudi in the making. "He has nothing going for him but he's going to succeed because he's a player character".

>>95967647
The player character succeeding in spite of the odds is a good thing dude. That builds pathos, that makes a story interesting.
And people play lovers because they are restricted in how many dots they can put on the sheet and restricted in what backgrounds they can have. You've both misidentified a problem and its source.

>>95967664
Losers, not lovers. Although hey lovers could be an interesting concept too.

>>95967664
I think you're just misunderstanding. I'm not complaining about a character concept that is "loser" I'm complaining about a character concept that is "I put in zero thought so I'm playing a normal person and won't grow into something interesting". Normal person with super powers doesn't make sense in most WoD gamelines.

>>95965890
>I'm still trying to get a feel for how quickly characters should gain/lose torment, do you have any insight from your games for how often this should happen?

The books mostly covers this, frankly. You roll opposed on Virtue vs Torment after you do a good deed to see if your cynicism and rage wins over the banality of such minor good acts. You can increase or decrease the difficulty rating as appropriate, but it's a mortality system at the end of the day. It should simply be what "feels right." The Hierarchy of Sins exists too, so simply consult the deeds, good and bad, and come to your own conclusions. Helping out for a week at a soup kitchen probably won't do much to soothe an 8 Torment Demon perfectly ok with Destroying his rivals if they attack first.

As for Lores being too restrictive, we personally just make it a "can do something that sounds about the same" within reason, the more you stretch it you can increase the difficulty by +1 or +2, and if the effect seems particularly good or unique you can ask the player to simply purchase it as an alterative 2 or 3 dot Lore or what have you. Maybe give them a discount to represent iteration, and that's only if they want to roll it at normal difficulty. Stretching the Lore effect increases difficulty but "finalizing" it makes it another standard effect rather than stretching it.

>>95967581
>When have they ever actually said no?
This has to be bait. Did you forget about the avatar storm destroying most of the mage setting and destroying most player options in revised? The fucking unhinged ranting about "Twinks" in blood treachery? The smug condecendsion in wraith or sorcerer20?
ever since 2e, "No" seems to be the only word they can say for every build that isn't some loser wagy. That's their ideal character in V5 and W5.

>>95967695
I gotta wonder what happens if a fleshy demon goes "Fuck Redemption" and embraces their torment. Do they lose their virtues and gain Urges at torment 10 like earthbound do?

>>95967691
That's a Player problem and you should get better players and realize 90% of everything is shit, take the good parts and go hogwild. I've played a Vampire who was comfortably upper-middle class but he was very specifically coping with 8 Humanity and trying to reject the idea of Vampirism itself. He later went off the deep end and just started hunting other Vampires while keeping up the facade of being a perfectly nice, naive, silly kindred pretending to be kine who was only all too helpful and easy to manipulate. Ended up with Sanctity as a merit because he was just so nice.

>>95967704
Same thing that happens at the minimum (in this case maximum) rating of any splat. They become monstrous NPCs. Earthbound specifically are the way they are because they are powerful and didn't lose as much of themselves due to being bound by powerful mortal Sorcerers not so long after they got shoved into the Abyss. A PC should never be able to become an Earthbound, even if they do shove themselves into a magical reliquary, simply because the PCs are the weakest of Demons who slipped through the cracks, either because they were never strong to begin with or because they became hollow shells of what they used to be through the despair and self torture and regret eating away at them. It's ultimately up to you as the ST to decide what happens with a 10 Torment Fallen. They're probably the scariest of the splats PCs into NPCs except maybe Mage, because unlike others they don't actually *lose* anything except their sense of right and wrong. They are just as clever, intelligent, well connected, whatever as before, except now they are totally dedicated to fully embracing their own personal Hell and killing and torturing and generally doing whatever they want because "fuck it."

>>95967700
Mage Revised came out of needing to make the rest of WoD more in line with Vampire, as you will notice in most threads it's the Vampire fags who will eat up slop and then complain when someone else isn't playing a boring street level character. This marketing strategy is also why 5th is fucked beyond repair. Making it more like Vampire kills the setting. Also, after you get past the core book Mage revised drops the street level shit.

>>95967494
>Malkavians are cool af when writers don't fishmalk them
So they're cool 0% of the time?

>>95967529
It's the ST's job to tell the players no, not the publisher's.

>>95967732
>Earthbound specifically are the way they are because they are powerful and didn't lose as much of themselves due to being bound by powerful mortal Sorcerers not so long after they got shoved into the Abyss.
Anon, this contradicts literally Everything said in the earthbound book. Go read the actual books before you try spreading your shitbrew headcanon next time.

>>95967735
>Vampire kills the setting
The poetry of this is delicious.

>>95967750
That's not headcanon that's literally what the books say??? The original Earthbound were Luficers buddies who he re-summoned into pottery and then got confused when he realized they were completely batshit insane. Then Humans repeated that and summoned more Demons, which is a specific way to bypass the imprisonment in the Abyss. I suppose that last bit is up to you, but only the weakest Demons become Fallen as they're the only spirits small and weak enough to pass through the cracks. PCs simply hard cap at a much weaker level than other Earthbound do, and even if you go hide in a computer or a statue, that can have all the drawbacks of being an Earthbound, but you won't suddenly get Mastery from doing so no matter how high your Torment goes.

>>95967788
>I suppose that last bit is up to you
The DtF: Earthbound makes it explicitly clear that every fallen can become an earthbound and gives step-by-step instructions on how it happens.
The only difference between an earthbound and a normal fallen is that they inhabit an object instead of a flesh vessel. Any fallen is a potential earthbound.
> PCs simply hard cap at a much weaker level than other Earthbound do
Demons don't have Any caps anon. The difference in demon ranks is how high your permanent faith rating is and how many lores you know, this is outlined in the storyteller's handbook.
The Legions were meritocratic, literally Anyone can advance to any rank with enough work.

>>95967735
It's more that every other setting kills the setting and VtM does all the heavy lifting to keep this supposed horror setting from becoming a DCEU film.

>>95967877
>my ante appears and used Discipline 10 to get everyone to thriller dance
>post-credits scene is Caine drinking at a bar with Smiling Jack
Keep telling yourself that yours is at all more serious than any one else's game. Pro tip: YOU FUCKING LOSE

>>95967704
Urges specifically come into being because the Earthbound are trapped inside reliquaries and yearn to feel the flesh/emotion/thought again.
A Torment 10 Fallen would probably lose their virtues quickly enough, but they wouldn't suddenly develop urges as a replacement.

>>95967905
My point stands none-the-less.

>>95967934
No it doesn't. You got btfo'd and cum is leaking down into your socks.

>>95967941
Sounds hot, but no.

>>95967877
>VtM does all the heavy lifting to keep this supposed horror setting from becoming a DCEU film
No, it's just as wacko as every other splat. VtM LARPers just got it in their heads that everyone needs to play street-lore horror with starbucks employees as the only available character options.
Newsflash, Everyone Else hates you and everything you preach. Especially the tabletop VtM players because we Like the gonzo aspects as much as the horror.
Btw there are other horror elements to VtM beyond personal Horror, because personal Horror is fucking Boring after the first time.

>>95967859
>Step by Step
If you inhabit an inanimate object you become like an Earthbound but not really. Typically it's a really bad terrible awful thing because all you get out of it mechanically is Urges which is a fast track to 10 Torment and becoming an NPC. You don't get Mastery or any more powerful, you just lose your moral compass and ability to walk and communicate.

>Demons don't have Any caps anon
Huh? You have extremely hard caps, some of the hardest in any of the splat books. Attributes and skills cap at 5, Faith caps at 10. Maybe your Apocalyptic Form has +4 to Attributes at best. Any extra power you can accrue past this is more Thralls giving you soft power and the ability to Reap, which is mechanically powerful if you have a large enough herd, but also a very consumable resource and Torment inducing thing. The Elohim can never again reach the heights they had. The Legions were meritocratic, but that Age passed a long time ago. Now the Fallen are broken Spirits inhabiting broken mortals. Earthbound are more powerful than Fallen primarily because
1. They were just more powerful, the strongest Demons were the ones whose name survived the scouring to be summoned. Some weaker Demons were also summoned and became Earthbound, but that's not the ones anyone is talking about when they mention such entities.
2. They had a lot more time to gain Thralls and reap Faith and . Mastery is a reflection of the Earthbound's vast accumulation in time and power ruling over mortal societies and their weaponization of the masses of Faith they have access to. It's worth reasoning that given time, a PC could gain Mastery too, however, most Chronicles aren't going to take place over millennia. So I wouldn't allow a PC to gain more than a dot of Mastery within a campaign, and they'd still need to gain an enormous following to achieve that.

>>95967933
Sure, but Earthbound that build themselves a permanent servitor body don't suddenly lose all their urges. I can totally see a fleshy fallen developing urges for the same reason wraiths develop shadow dice, their diseased minds developing unnatural obsessions that let them push themselves beyond their usual limits.

>>95967950
Non-VtM WoD is such a small minority no one cares. There's a reason most of the splats barely get touched and take decades to get basic errata or a new edition. "Everyone else" is a few hundred people.

>>95967943
Haha, weirdly enough I agree with you now? :3
Wtf I love vampire now

>>95967985
Stick to your furfag splat kid.

>>95967960
>If you inhabit an inanimate object you become like an Earthbound but not really.
Anon, for the love of Fuck read page 67-68 of DtF Earthbound and stop embarrassing yourself already.
>You have extremely hard caps
I don't know if you're missed the point that hard or are deflecting to hide how wrong you were, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
The difference between the lowest demon and the strngest Duke stuck in hell is just faith level and number of Lore dots. Thats it. If the storyteller allows it, you can probably gain a number of extra apocolyptic form powers from xp or eating fallen/host angels.
The difference between the above and an earthbound is that earthbound have a phylactery, 3 secret lores, and a few new backgrounds. Thats it.
The difference between a "tiny" starting demon and becoming equal to Belial is just XP. This isn't VtM, there are no Generation caps. Any demon can potentially get every lore to 5 and become a demigod in their own right.

>>95967998
Nooo I promise I can play Gangrel, just let me start with multiple animal features.

>>95967969
Which is why the entire company is crashing and burning under the direction of VtM larpers right?

>>95968015
Oh is the new narrative that WW hasn't been dead since VtR? Interesting pivot.

>>95968024
Anon, wtf are you on about? Are you confusing me with someone you were arguing with before?
Newsflash, the are more than two people on the internet.

>>95968007
>The difference between a "tiny" starting demon and becoming equal to Belial is just XP.
This probably contributed to why so many people hated DtF when it first came out.

>>95968047
Paradigm updated...

>>95968047
Terrible deflection. Other splats could barely even get off the ground back when WW was big, nothing today is indicative of VtM's success back then.

>>95968072
And that's relevant because....?

>>95968083
If VtM can't save the company, nothing else will, because it never has. How is that even remotely difficult to piece together?

>>95968007
I'm aware of Earthbound creation rules, I'm referring to a Fallen becoming an Earthbound, why do you keep bringing Earthbound creation rules up? You don't suddenly gain extra Lore dots for jumping into a statue, all a Fallen gets fortheir host being destroyed and having to hide in a statue is on page 140 and it sucks. You lose your Virtues and get Urges and can't walk or talk. It sucks. It's bad.

>The difference between the lowest demon and the strngest Duke-
And metaknowledge such as True Names or where Relics are hidden, how to use them. Before they were forced into the Abyss they were stronger in a sense of probably having at least one Attribute above 10, skills well over 5, the Fallen are completely divorced from what they were in the Age of Wrath or before. Their bodies were destroyed and they exist solely as Spirits now. In theory you could simply possess an entity with attributes that go above 5, but such things that exist are largely limited to the Technocracy and I doubt the Progenitors would take kindly to you trying to possess some of their bioengineered stuff.

>The difference between the above and an earthbound-
"Backgrounds" that make Lores go from affecting at most a few feet to affecting dozens of MILES. Sure. Very minor difference. Basically just xp. Also the hundreds of thralls they need to actually make use of that but eh, BASICALLY JUST XP AM I RIGHT? I get what you mean but I don't think you get what I mean, honestly. You will never reach the level of an Earthbound character as a Fallen because that took them hundreds of thousands of mortals and thousands of years to achieve meta-narratively. And sure yes, you could become Belial-like. But how many Chronicles last for the 800+ exp you'd need to reach that? I'm not here to say that Demon doesn't have problems, hence why I was offering some ways to make Lores a little less restrictive and lame to the other anon,

>>95968090
An, I don't know how to tell you this, but VtM hasn't been relevant for 20 YEARS.
The culture of today isn't the culture of the 90s.
VtM isn't going to save shit, because no one cares about or ever will care about it to the level they did back then. The conditions of your childhood will Never happen again.
Anon, in post 2004 era, VtM isn't even the leader of OWoD enthusiasts anymore. No forums, gameshops, and friendgroups I've seen give it anymore weight than werewolf or mage. The golden age of VtM is dead and gone.

>>95968154
I went around to various hobby shops near me and none of them carried any WoD stuff except for Books a Million which had the V5 VtM corebook. And a small other shop that had three lead hunter (modern) miniatures. Unpainted. Original extremely fucked up packaging. Maybe I shoulda grabbed em just for the novelty.

>>95968154
>VtM hasn't been relevant for 20 YEARS.
Yeah I said that already.

>>95968154
>An, I don't know how to tell you this, but VtM hasn't been relevant for 20 YEARS.
It had a little resurgence when Twilight came around. So it hasn't been relevant for only 17 years.

>>95968154
>VtM hasn't been relevant for 20 YEARS.
Regardless it is, and always has been, the largest splat. The other ones only ever get made because VtM foots their bills and sells them through its own splat. Even V5 tends to move more books than WtA20 and WoD5 is pretty much dead in the water.

I'd like to play a Mummy game. Which should I choose M:tR or M:tC? I think I might enjoy both, but which should I choose first?

>>95968095
>I'm referring to a Fallen becoming an Earthbound, why do you keep bringing Earthbound creation rules up?
You're clearly not as knowledgable as you think you are because starting in "Becoming the Enemy" on page 67 all the way through to "Final Damnation" on page 69 is a step-by-step guide on how the average demon character becomes an earthbound demon. Full earthbound no being arbitrarily "lesser" like you seem to think
>Before they were forced into the Abyss they were stronger in a sense of probably having at least one Attribute above 10, skills well over 5, the Fallen are completely divorced from what they were in the Age of Wrath or before
This is where your baseless headcanon is showing.
They give detailed stats for what unfallen angels look like in the DtF section of "Time of Judgement". Angels don't get Attributes above 5 and they don't Abilities(as in Skills, Knowledges, or Talents) at all. What they have the ability to spend faith point to add dice to any roll and a massive faith point pool(up to 65) that refreshes to Full every day.
They didn't have ultra-mega stats or anything like that.
>I get what you mean but I don't think you get what I mean, honestly.
I understand just fine, I'm pointing out where you're wrong.Not even arguably wrong, but objectively wrong as clearly laid out in the books.
>You will never reach the level of an Earthbound character as a Fallen because that took them hundreds of thousands of mortals and thousands of years to achieve meta-narratively.
Which all went up in flames at the end of the medieval and most of them were forced to start from scratch in the modern day.
It wouldn't take 800+ xp either, unless you were forcing the character to go from 0 dots in lore And backgrounds. Backgrounds are Current rating x3 and Lores are current rating x 5. Following the math from the storytellers handbook, an Archduke should have 60 dots in Lore, which is 5 dots in 12 lore.

>>95968154
Maybe if WW continues to make a big big deal about trannies, cripples and pronouns sales will pick up again.

>>95968203
Bloodlines does such heavy lifting that it's insane. Thankfully when Bloodlines 2 drops, VtM will be deader than disco.

>>95967207
>>95967230
>>95967353
>>95967371
Mexico does have the witchcraft capital of the world and open Aztec cults. It wouldn’t be hard to tool the Sabbat as openly ruling Mexico.

>>95968262
>A cult classic that made no money and that no one played was why VtM was popular for over a decade previous to its release.
Are you braindead, perchance?

>>95968238
As an MtR fan, I'd ask what your opinion on playing a D&D paladin is. MtR is Strick in how much it requires your character to act in a moral fashion.Not just your magic, but also your core attributes and abilities are capped by your morality track. If your mummy has strength of 3 and a balance rating of 2, then you effectively have a strength of 2 until you make amends to the judges of Ma'at.
The D&D Paladin comparison is apt, you Will live up to a higher moral standard or you won't be a paladin/mummy. There is no weasel room.

>>95968266
It's also the most Catholic country on earth and regularly lynches cultists and witches if they do something negative. Sabbat would be burned out of the country overnight.

Can someone give me a QRD on demon the fallen?

>>95968238
>M:tR
This for hot soul fusion.

>>95968278
The reason bloodlines made no money was because it was released broken. It only gained it's traction after troika died.

>>95968154
>The golden age of VtM is dead and gone.
That and everything else. The fire of the world has gone out and all that is left is the last wisps of smoke.

>>95968266
>witchcraft capital of the world
WTF, the italians lied to me?

>>95968301
And what does that have to do with VtM always having been the biggest splat for over ten consecutive years, all previous to its release?
And here I thought you were merely pretending.

>>95968278
If you polled every poster here, no matter what game they talk about, they will overwhelmingly have been exposed to WoD via Bloodlines. You seriously think everyone here is 40+?

>>95968238
I keep forgetting Mummy is even a thing, has anyone actually played it?

>>95968319
Again has no bearing at all on the point, but thanks for typing.

>>95968297
Excuse me?
>>95968309
It’s a real thing lol.

>>95968309
People see witches flying in the sky in Mexico IRL, it's been filmed.

>>95968319
Anon you're just proving his point that VtM is pretty much why WoD exists.

>>95968328
>VtM has a timeless quality and that's why it's irrelevant today

>>95968330
>Excuse me?
To become a mummy, you must fuse your soul with another (hopefully hot) ancient soul.

>>95968330
>>95968333
The Italians told me the witchcraft capital was Turin.
A much cooler city than Mexico, btw.

>>95968337
Said no one in this thread but (you).

>>95968319
>You seriously think everyone here is 40+?
I'm 39...the vast majority of people here probably are past or near 40. I was playing in MET larps before Bloodlines came out.

>>95968296
>QRD
You're a bottom-tier fallen angel that just escaped from hell and jumped into the first vessel weak enough to overpower. Your memories are more fucked than a blackout hangover and you're loaded down with more trauma than a vietnam war vet.
It's now up to you to piece together your own past, link up with your friends from the war in heaven, try not to get enslaved by a stronger angel(unless you're into that), and figure out what you want to do with your newfound freedom. You're one of 7 species of angel and each one has powers semi-unique to its type.
There are already others like you in the world and they've split up into faction based on 5 answers to the above: Unite humanity to declare war on god(faustians), Find daddy Lucifer(lucifarians), repent and decide to beg either humanity or god for forgiveness(reconcilers), destroy the world because you're an edgy asshole(raveners), or figure out WTF is even going on(cryptics).
Unfortunately fo you, you and humanity aren't alone. So good luck getting into a pissing contest with the already existing magical demigods that won't be pleased to have more competition.

>>95968345
Whatever. Favorite book + favorite clan?

>>95968343
Those are just two places where the consensus is a little bit more open so you can get away with slightly vulgar effects.

>>95968350
I'm 22 old man. You're full of Cope.

>>95968297
>>95968288
M:tR it is then. Tell me do they have good antagonist? I know it doesn't have any real source books or anything, but a nice set of mysterious groups and antagonist help fleash the game out

>>95968352
>figure out WTF is even going on(cryptics)
And of the 5, this is by Far the hardest to achieve.

>>95968357
Road of the Beast & Lasombra.

>>95968352
Thanks, sounds interesting

>>95968378
>Tell me do they have good antagonist?
By default they have bane mummies, the followers of set, the black spiral dancers, mortal cultists of apophis, a special breed of resurrecting fomori that hunt mummies for their organs, etc.
You can slot them against any gameline's antagonist and they'll work honestly. Balance has an inbuilt mechanic to "No U" mage spheres, so they can even take on the technocracy without getting curb-stomped by awakened bullshit.

>>95968362
Have you ever actually played these games?

>>95968402
Yes, I'm played them as a teen with my dad and some friends in highschool.

>>95968400
Excellent, sounds fun. I guess I'm going to go down the rabbit hole now.

>>95968409
Curious how someone in High School 4 years ago heard of a game that was released within three or four years of his birth.

>>95968400
No way a Mummy is taking down a single Black Spiral Dancer.

>>95967334
>Majority of Garou
>One tenth of Garou are BSDs

Must be a Mage main. It ruins your math skills.

>>95968419
You mean beside the Bloodline video game? The same reason anyone I know knows about it?
My dude, you don't seriously think that the 40+ greybeards that played in the 90's are the largest demographic of WoD players right now, do you? We're about to see an entire generation who's introduction was from Hunter: the Parenting.

>>95968444
>No way a Mummy is taking down a single Black Spiral Dancer.
*Laughs in Nomenclature*

>>95968497
I didn't mean to be factious or combative, I was genuinely curious.

>>95968497
Bloodlines itself is almost as old as you are so I doubt there are many people your age who got into WoD through it. Hunter the Parenting maybe since it seems to be a YouTube thing and your generation lives vicariously through YouTube.

>>95968508
Oof. Assumed it was anon continuing the argument from earlier. Sorry bro.

>>95968497
>We're about to see an entire generation who's introduction was from Hunter: the Parenting.
Grim.

>>95968524
>your generation
Anon, so does yours. Even if not you personally, the internet age has claimed the majority of Every generation.

>>95968419
>how did a person learn about classic game that is still talked about to this day as a classic
Are you bemused when someone under the age of 40 knows what Tetris is?

>>95968536
Yes the broccoli heads will descend on us all soon. WOD will get a boost in sales and popularity for a short time only to come crashing down in flames once more, leaving nothing behind.

>>95968260
Anon that section clearly is about giving the option for the Storyteller to timeskip a bit and work with the player. You can do whatever you want it's a game of pretend. RAW, all that happens when you possess a physical object instead of a mortal is you lose Virtues, gain Urges, probably hit Torment 10 and become an NPC. If you want to lean into that and be an insane Earthbound? It's oWoD, it'll let you do that, why are you being such a gigantic asshole over this?

>Time of Judgement
This does not appear in the Demon the Fallen corebook unless you'd like to prove me wrong with a page number. Are you referring to the Time of Judgement book series?

>start from scratch
The only thing they had to start over from is Thralls and Resources. They didn't just lose their knowledge, only the Faith to fuel it.

>>95968352
What are the necessary books for playing? And how relevant are cross splat mechanics? Seems like you'd have a lot of overlap with Wraith and probably Vampire, and also probably Mage right?

>>95968419
The first time I played tabletop was playing 1e AD&D with my dad when I was 7. I'm 30 now.

>>95968646
>father playing ttrpg with his son
Based.

>>95968660
I played an elf ranger and my brother played a dwarf fighter and we very poorly aped Legolas and Gimli. Then later on I played a Drow Ranger because I read Legend of Drizzt and thought he was cooler than cool.

>>95968598
>Anon that section clearly is about giving the option for the Storyteller to timeskip a bit and work with the player.
Anon, there's nothing about "time-skipping" in that section .You made that up in your head. A torment 4 demon that gets sealed in a statue and progresses to torment 10 in the proceeding game sessions would get 6 dots in earthbound backgrounds.
You also keep talking about torment 10 demons becoming NPCs, this isn't a thing. Not in the demon corebook, player's guide, storytellers handbook, earthbound book, etc. I think you're mixing up vampire humanity rules with demon here.
>Are you referring to the Time of Judgement book series?
It's in World of Darkness: Time of Judgement, the supplement for ending any splat that wasn't mage, werewolf, or vampire.
Stats for heavenly angels are on page 90.

>>95968638
>What are the necessary books for playing?
More then most splats. You need the core, players guide, and storytellers handbook just to get something functional. Like with Hunter the Reckoning, most of the core mechanics were actually left out of the corebook for some fucking reason. As an St you're also going to need Earthbound if you want to stack the main antagonists.
> And how relevant are cross splat mechanics?
Like all game there are splat stand-ins in the back of the corebook, so you don't need to use other splats at all.
Demon get virtues though so they can be slotted into VtM game with no issues.
Wraiths are easy to slot into any game if you overcome the hurdle of getting to the skinlands in the first place.
Faith and Torment can substitute for gnosis and rage if werewolf is brought in, so it's got no problem there either.
Mage doesn't work well with any other splat.
Mummies cause demon to burst into flames.

>>95968683
No it absolutely implies a timeskip. This is not how you describe something going from Monday to Tuesday, this is saying you reorient the story into a completely new direction which, hey if you think you can manage that in a week in-game go for it. I can't really think of a way to justify this being something that isn't handled in a timeskip.

>>95968683
>You also keep talking about torment 10 demons becoming NPCs, this isn't a thing. Not in the demon corebook, player's guide, storytellers handbook, earthbound book, etc. I think you're mixing up vampire humanity rules with demon here.

>>95968726
I don't understand how you interpret "going in a new direction" as "timeskip". Literally every time a book says this it means the plot changed, not that you need to skip forward in time. This is reaching so far you'd impress Mr Fantastic.

>>95968729
Which book is this?

>>95968683
>it's in World of Darkness Time of Judgement
And like I don't care about Age of Sigmar I don't care about End of Old World of Darkness. It was mostly bad an unfun ideas and I never actually read the Demon version because I was so unsatisfied with the Vampire end of the world stuff I never moved on to the . So I don't care about it.

Also wait seriously it just stats Heavenly Angels as having 5 in their attributes? That's kinda retarded. You're telling me Michael would lose a fist fight to a 12th Gen Brujah with a bit of Quickening? 65 "extra dice" per day doesn't sound like that much in the Apocalypse when you have to fight 200 vampires.

>>95968741
I don't know how you don't, going in a new direction is going to be a lot of rewriting of storyteller plans and you need to adjust the plans of the PCs a lot to account for the fact they are no longer bound by emotions or morality. There's still going to be personal scenes don't get me wrong, but if you have Fallen + Earthbound? That's going to be a little awkward to include everyone. IF the goal is long term having them stay as Earthbound, mind you. If the goal is to get them back into a host, that's not the same circumstance here.

>>95968745
Demon the Fallen (2002) page 161, Torment. It's a basic mechanic.

>>95968755
>Also wait seriously it just stats Heavenly Angels as having 5 in their attributes?
Yes.
Angels are objectively inferior to humanity.
>I don't know how you don't, going in a new direction is going to be a lot of rewriting of storyteller plans
Sure, but that's entirely tangential to the discussion at hand.
I was pointing out that claiming a fallen needs centuries of time to become an earthbound or requires a special type of demon to survive the transformation was your(assuming I'm speaking to the same anon) headcanon, and that said headcanon conflicts with what the books actually say.
Whether or not the storyteller need srewrite has absolutely nothing to do with that argument.
>Demon the Fallen (2002) page 161
Huh, never noticed that. That or I got things mixed up because devil's due is a bit different.

>>95968561
No. I am bemused to learn how people got into playing Bloodlines specifically.

>>95968795
It's oWoD, everything has a "at max/min value you become an NPC."

Yeah no that's dumb. All the corebooks imply that the Elohim were just so far beyond Mankind and that what you have now and the frailty of the mortal shell and all that jazz is exactly that. If Angels and Fallen were capped at 5 in their stats then mortal champions would have been a serious threat. I'm just calling bogus. That doesn't even fit in with the themes of the splat it's for. It's all about lost heights and regret and pale reflections of what once was.

>I was pointing out that claiming a fallen needs centuries of time to become an earthbound or requires a special type of demon to survive the transformation
I don't think I ever said the latter. The lore just states that for the most part, all the Earthound, the 666, were the strongest and most well-known and then fed and became even stronger as they fed on human Faith. Some were weaker or coincidental or were never intended to become Earthbound but escaped their Summoners, either way, they are supposed to be a primordial, alien thing. If a PC can become as strong as Belial after a week of chilling in a pottery dish then I don't care if that's "headcanon" for me to say no it takes time and effort to do that, it's better than going strictly RAW and allowing that in an afternoon after a bit of torture and murder. When mechanics contradict the theme and the lore, I say the mechanics are gay and wrong, otherwise Asmodeus is just a gigantic retard for not having max stats after being an Earthbound for so long and being one of the strongest and first to wake back up.

>>95968646
I started with my older brother, who inherited his books from our dad.

>>95968838
>If a PC can become as strong as Belial after a week of chilling in a pottery dish
Not what I was saying. The week in a pottery dish just turns you into a basic starting earthbound. Earthbound have ranks just like the fallen do, most of that original 666 are going to be lower than Duke level, let alone archdukes like belial. A freshly turned hell-knight isn't going to be high on that pecking order.
You still need Faith 10, Willpower 10, and 60 Lore dots to scrape the surface of archduke level, but I'd also assume belial has the maximum amounts of Mastery, Hoard, Cult, Urges, and a laundry list of apocalyptic form powers to choose from. Belial throwing down 35 dice on an evocation would be a thing he can do an a turn-by-turn basis.
Non of that shit is going to be something a lower ranking earthbound can pull off. Any demon can Potentially reach that level was my point at the start of this argument.

>>95968838
>All the corebooks imply that the Elohim were just so far beyond Mankind
I got the opposite from this. Humanity was always several tiers above the fallen, they were just so ignorant that they could never tap that potential.
This is shown clearly when Caine pulled off big G's "I Cast: Universal Entropy" and fucked up the entire war of wrath for the rest of time.

>>95968818
Game good. People talk about game. People play game.

>>95968865
Well yeah, I never disagreed. I suppose the issue is I'm using the word Earthbound to describe the Big Boys tee em and not every Joshua that escaped a mid level Sorcerer who didn't draw his binding runes right and has a single thrall that works in an antique shop.

>>95968878
Well, yes that's true but untapped potential is by definition not being tapped and I think an Angel should beat a mortal in an arm wrestling contest when the Fallen were at the height of their power at the very least without needing to cheat and pull in human Faith to get a single super Blood Buff. Like, the Fallen and the Heavenly Host fought with swords that did 5 Agg and rolled at difficulty 3 and also could make a volcano explode out of the ground but you're also telling me they were pulling out all the stops while rocking a dice pool of 7-10? Nah senpai, if I could have killed Asmodeus with a rock cause he's only got 5 soak then he's a BITCH

>>95968912
>I think an Angel should beat a mortal in an arm wrestling contest when the Fallen were at the height of their power
They could. The fallen were in apocalyptic form 24/7 and had unlimited time to learn new form abilities or devour them from defeated Host angels. Any given fallen could just manifest +however-much to physical rolls passively.
Fallen can also learn abilities, but only after a human invents and then Teaches it to them. In a weird way, DtF retroactively makes each kind of Ability Dice a work of True Magick woven into the universe by humanity.

>>95968968
>Any given fallen could just manifest +however-much to physical rolls passively
It would max out at +8 to any attribute. Pre-Torment angels can only manifest 4 Apoc form abilities at a time and the only form enhancer that applies to physicals only gives +2 dice. War-era Angels much better at mental and social rolls(potentially getting into +16 from form)

The war of wrath fallen seem to have had it made. They could eat angels for no consequence since torment didn't exist, collect 4 of every Apoc form option, learn any lore they wanted, and had unlimited Faith thank to humanity.
Yet they still somehow fucked it up and most of them want to blame the humans for it.

>>95969093
Eating the Heavenly Host is part of why they had Torment. Torment didn't come into existence the second they got sent to the Abyss, it was a gradual process of looking back on the last thousand years and going "I may have gone too far in a few places" mixed with remembering what the time before that was like, and facing the worst torture possible. Being alone with your own thoughts. Forever. Like how it says the Abyss isn't even that bad of a place, it's just, nothing. Any physical torment came from them being cut off from both God and Human Faith, which I suppose would be like being cut off from a drug you took for every second of every day for your entire existence except that you never stop feeling the withdrawal or the need for more of it. Thousands of years going through a meth withdrawal but with the clarity of mind to remember that time you ate and destroyed an Angel who used to be your Lover before you split ways over the Human question and having the perfect recollection of how they screamed and suffered as you consumed them.

The only reprieve of this is to interact with the other Fallen, who are all doing the same thing, but you can't Destroy each other, only inflict torture and politicking upon each other to no real end, and maybe grab a Wraith that fell in and wasn't immediately destroyed and torture him for a bit until his soul is scraps and it didn't actually make you feel any better, but you couldn't help yourself because you just wanted to feel something but now that's another pile on the mountains of regret.

>>95969093
>They could eat angels for no consequence since torment didn't exist,
While theoretically true, a lot of fallen already went down the deep end during the war for a variety of reasons. They weren't immune to having their morality slip from their grasp in the usual ways.

>>95969093
>most of them want to blame the humans for it.
There is at least One good reason if you remember Caine. Demons hate, Hate ,HATE vampires for a very good reason.

>>95969174
Do they? I mean within Demon the Fallen lore, do the Fallen go out of their way to hate Vampires?

>>95969187
Everyone goes out of their way to hate vampires.
Also, Caine invented murder which allowed the angels to start fucking killing themselves, permanently.

>>95969187
Not quite to the extent anon is implying, but yes, demons and vampires mix like oil and water.
Demons still remember what Caine did and even the most torment riddled among them would fucking hate his spawn for that. Most vampires don't want to be damned twice.
And too add, both of them try to influence the same types of institutions for their own purposes, so clashes are inevitable.

>>95968718
>Mummies cause demon to burst into flames
Wait what why

>>95968755
>Time of Judgment
>Full of un-fun ideas
>Trumpet of Meru
>Shih with dozens of chi points without risk of taking damage and Qiao that go up to seven dots

I suppose it's a bright light in some shitty darkness, but I think it might be worth a read just for that.

>>95968536
Grimmer than the majority being introduced via WoD5?

>>95969258
>Wait what why
Because they are humanity's best.

>>95969316
I know jack shit about Mummy except that it’s one of the weirdest splats and they tend not to die when they are killed. And they just make Demons combust? Passively?

>>95969321
Just like true faith users.

>>95969321
Mummies are about as close as it gets to the good guys of the setting. They come equipped with their own version of true faith that if they neglect forces them to stop existing.

>>95968818
A few years ago it was trendy for video game reviewers and essayists to talk about it as a "cult classic" game, basically repeating watered down /v/ talking points about it.

So I imagine that caused a large, relatively recent influx.

>>95969287
>WoD5
Those are even worse.
The future looks very dark indeed.

Honestly it's impressive how easily this thread is suckered into arguments over which splat is better. I'd have figured you guys would've figured out when someone's trying to bait you by now but no.

Still think the Beast is, originally, the animating spirit of the Nephilim transferred into a dead human. If the Fallen ever figured it out, they'd double-kill every vampire on sight.

>anon sees genuine discussion and assumes it must be flaming or baiting
Must be a Nephandi

>>95957404 (OP)
>Favorite Hunters
Task Force: Valkyrie. Playing one right now as the only human in a mixed game. Party full of vampires, changelings, and werewolves, and I'm the scariest person in the room. Because I just know things.

Secret way into the changeling's hallow? Watched him do it through CCTV cameras I had set up in his house. I come, and go as I please now.
Weird blood waterboarding machine that cleanses blood bonds? Heard it be used on our vampire through the bug I planted on him two weeks ago.
Archangel? Found its truename, and bane, then got the boys together for a good old fashioned government killteam.
Other changeling a bit down on his luck? Convinced him to become a company asset. He works for me now.

Been real fun going around behind the party's back, and doing spookshit. Always having more pieces of the puzzle than anyone else. There's this bit where people keep forgetting that I'm in a scene, or a room, and they just have very intimate, or damming conversations. Right in front of the fucking government agent. Like I don't have to plant bugs on everyone to know everything, standing quietly in the corner is enough a lot of the time.

Also been fun being super nonchalant about a lot of stuff. Oldest character in the group. Been a hunter 30 years, just fucking seen everything, and killed most of it. Really funny when the vampire gets uppity. Small dog syndrome, thinks he's bigger than he is. Only a matter of time before he oversteps, and I put him down. Probably happen when he finds out I kidnaped, drugged, and mindwiped his girlfriend, who is our mage. It's for security reasons.

>>95969443
Let me phrase it this way, b8 still food and we are starving. That and the topic feels relatively new after 3 weeks without a proper argument about this bullshit.

>>95969467
That sounds more interesting than the prospect of "it's just a lobotomized shadow" even it is a lot less likely.

>>95969547
>feels relatively new
It's been like three threads of this in a row.

>>95969539
I've never understood this sort of explicitly adversarial type of play between players. Given how sloppy the other players are behaving, are you sure the other players know that hard PVP is open?

>>95968319
Never played Bloodlines and the amount of people who get into the World of Darkness with very particular expectations and demands of the setting after playing Bloodlines has only made me more opposed to ever playing it.
Bloodlines is to the World of Darkness what the MCU is to Marvel comics.

>>95969667
That's the thing, it's not. I just like being a spook. I've been going out of my way to help people, and advance the plot. The thing with the mage hasn't happened yet, planed for the next session. Going on a field trip to the local TFV field office, and can't have a mage, even a friendly one remembering that. I've only told the GM about the real plan. The mage (luck/fate 3 I think) player suspects, and is already prepared for my chicanery. As game has gone on I've lost a lot of integrity, so I've been playing more erratic, and confrontational as time goes on.

>>95969809
Basically if a Chronicle was written by Interplay staff.

>>95968461
>1/10th BSD
>Shadow Lords (crypto Wyrmtheists)
>Red Talons (must eat human flesh for Gaia)
>Wendigo (fire water by King Distilleries)
>Get (best friends with Dr. Totentaz)
>Silver Fangs (must rape my sister for Gaia)
>Glass Walkers (investing in Pentex doesn't break Litany)
They're not beating the Wyrm allegations.

>>95969809
What would those expectations and demands be?

>>95970568
>If I broaden the definition of worship far enough and use only meme takes, I can pass off my dumb shit as true!

The Angst Parade is really reaching these days, I see.

Corporate Wolves are a minority in the Glass Walkers, Get killed Nazis en masse even among their own (and that group was never selecting for more than a splinter of the tribe to begin with), Younger Brother fights against that kind of thing, and the Red Talons have fewer anthropophages than the Bone Gnawers, and the Maneaters aren't exactly a big faction in that tribe.

Shadow Lords act like kind of a drain trap for those who are so ambitious that they fall... and the cutthroat nature of the tribe frequently scythes them down. Silver Fangs do have the distinct disadvantage of having their tribal membership tied to their legacy in the tribe, but their issue is actually not caused by inbreeding but because they tried to cut a second deal with Helios so that they could rule for longer than the 7 years that Luna let their kings rule, which caused an additional price of madness from Luna if they went beyond that limit.

You'd know this if you read the books.

>>95970714
>the Red Talons have fewer anthropophages than the Bone Gnawers
The tribe that all starts as wolves eating fewer people than a tribe that mostly starts as humans is not a point in the Garou's favor.

>>95969809
Bloodlines doesn't even have half the insanity of WoD, so your point is moot.

>>95970714
Mad cope from someone who actually doesn't read the books.

>Meet a homeless crackhead named Smooz Motion
>Buy supernatural drugs from him in hopes of surviving a fight with a 8th generation Tremere
>Let slip were hunting a guy who owns a a company called a Save Love Not Hate
>Next thing we know he offers help
>Quote 'I'm a verrey Powafull spiritual Nigga and if ya fken with em you geeten on mah good slide
>Crackhead gives a plastic bag filled with a mirror like liquid and tells us to toss and run when we get to his haven
Did we just get a bag of instant werewolf or is this some fae nonsense

>>95971367
That's magic bullshit mate. Toss and pray

>>95971367
That's ether one of the schizo Orphas on his way to Maraudering or a Fae, in which case it's going to do something wild and may or may not kill you, but I would advise throwing it from as far as you can and running as fast as you can regardless.

>>95971367
That's also very possibly a bone-gnawer about to bring his entire pack.

The fact that the Camarilla have enough power to cover up all of the Masquerade-breaking shit that the Sabbat does but not enough power to actually deal with the Sabbat is mind-bogglingly retarded.

>>95971610
It only really makes sense if the Technocracy exists, but also that then begs the question of "why doesn't the Technocracy just go total Vampire Death?" and the real solution is to not think too hard about it.

>>95969622
Then I missed those discussions or you might be hallucinating.

>>95969867
Can't say I see the appeal. Why not just go to the TF:V field office alone? It sounds like you're making a conflict where there doesn't need to be one. Are you sure the group will be out of character cool with your character scheming to kidnap and possibly even kill their characters? Is the GM giving them rolls to actually detect your actions?

>>95971662
>"why doesn't the Technocracy just go total Vampire Death?"
They've answered this one in the guide to technocracy books.
Vampires are able to breed so fast via embrace that a mass vampire genocide would be A.) too expensive and B.) cause too much destruction to maintain the current consensus.
So they just bribed the less bloodthirsty vamps to police the others and called it a day. It's part of why the Cam is so powerful, they have the backing of reality-bending demigods.

>>95972221
So if the Camarilla has the backing of the Technocracy, why do they not have enough power to successfully annihilate the Sabbat?

>>95972303
Because if they tried, the sabbat would go nuclear on the masqeurade/consensus.
The lasombra and Tzimisce don't actually allow the sabbat to cause too much noise, they even maintain the msquerade somewhat in sabbat controlled cities despite the BS dogma they feed everyone else.
Fully breaking the masquerade is a nuclear option they keep in their back pocket to keep the camarilla from escalating the war between them. Right now the big picture of the conflict is that it's a cold war interspersed small skirmishes over individual cities. The cammies escalating would prompt the sabbat to reveal vampires to the world, breaking the consensus and destroying both factions when humanity/the technocracy re-initiates the inquisition/pogrom.
It's vampire's version of mutually assured destruction.

>>95972303
The Syndicate's top dogs have been running a betting pool over which sect will win and some of them have been subtly shifting things in the Sabbat's favour under the nose of the other conventions.

okay bros, first time here
what vampire clan is easiest to play as a newbie that will make me have a chance at avoiding getting fucked immediately?
my friend wants me to play a game with him and some people and I've never played any ttrpgs ever before so I am walking in blind

>>95972578
ANy of the core clans. Even malkavian and nosferatu are fine, just choose a milder mental illness for the former and start with obfuscate 3 for the latter.

>>95972578
Gangrel. Your disciplines revolve around survivability, your clan curse isn't crippling, your clan won't demand anything of you, and the other clans don't have it out for you nor do they expect too much. The inverse is of course don't expect privileges based on your clan, everyone sees you as one step above a bum but it lines you up nicely for a position as one of the sheriff's hounds.

>>95972602
>>95972618
okay, thanks. seems like it will be fun to see what happens

>>95972578
Any of the cam 7 are safe options. Slight caveat though, Ventrue come with a lot of decorum and expectations, Nossies can't be seen in public, and Tremere are all stuck in a blood-binding MLM. Even then none are insurmountable issues for a new player. Personally I'd suggest Gangrel if you want to be a bruiser, Toreador if you want to yap and be pretty, and Brujah if you want to fight and do some yapping on the side.

>>95972578
Brujah if you want to be an unga bunga retard, Gangrel if you want to be an autistic unga bunga retard
Also assuming they people you're playing with aren't assholes, it's fine to just get fucked up, you can make a new character

>>95969258
Demons exposed to true faith take [Faith Rating] levels of lethal damage ever turn they're exposed. Mummies Balance counts as True Faith to other supernaturals. A mummy with a balance of 5 would passively explode demons, high-angst wraiths, and demonic/low-humanity vampires that get too close.

>>95971365
You failed the SoH test. Go play W5.

no new thread
game is dead

>>95973322
I'm going to play in my weekly Hunter: the Vigil game in about an hour.

>>95973322
Posting, image giving trouble for some reason

>>95971367
>I'm a verrey Powafull spiritual Nigga
I'd be funny as fuck if he was a spirit of homelessness or crack

>>95973439
>>95973439
>>95973439
New Bread

>>95971367
No clue but keep us posted how it goes.