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Bracket Fire edition

Last Thread: >>95968765

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Thread Question: are bracket-firing 'mechs more fun to play, or just a pain in the ass?

Leave the clanners to us.

Are there no rules for determining vertical occlusion for LOS?

Like if one mech is on a plateau group of +4 hexes and the other is one hex away from the grouping and 10 hexes separates both (no partial cover), LOS is "clear" as far as the rules are concerned?

I mean, I get firing weapons on a curved trajectory, but there wouldn't exist a visual for either of these units? (Indirect fire notwithstanding)

What do you think the next Battletech kickstarter will be?

>>95986085
Star League or Ilclan. I would like for it to be industrials and utility stuff, but I don't think that would market well enough for a big homerun kickstarter.

>>95985993
Yes, in your example LoS is clear. If you dont like that answer you can use TacOps LoS rules, but it will ruin the pace of your game

>>95986085
Aerospace box with new aerospace rules. Have the LAMs be the equivalent of the Blood Asp stretch goal that doesn't get achieved

>>95986085
Battletech: Porches.

>>95986085
Jihad(it will probably be called something that isn't jihad)

Were Hanse, Teddy and Takashi ok with Vic and Omi officially getting married?

>>95986301
I think FCCW would be more likely. Especially since the celestials are already getting a box on their own. Most of the Jihad designs were from around the 3060s anyway while the WoB built up to fight Comstar more conventionally.

>>95986085
Bulldog

>>95986085
CGL has said they're done doing big huge kickstarters like CI and Mercs

>>95986379
That could mean smaller kickstarters or they're just lying when the "situation changes".
But smaller kickstarters could be more interesting anyway. A Solaris games kickstarter for example. Or industrialmechs and MODs. Could also do something like a campaign-in-a-box with relevant models so people not interested in that particular campaign would also buy it.

>>95986268
A series of plastic bits to install luxurious 360 degree porches around the cockpits of the urbanmechs.

>>95986085
probably something to fund Young (the retard who made it canon that clans have a literal sex slave caste now and forced racism into the clans) castrating his mentally ill child.

>>95986486
>guy who thinks about trannies a normal amount and not all the time

Instant Action 5.1 has been uploaded

>https://victorypointproductions.neocities.org/instantaction

Features minor tweaks throughout, to scenarios, Analyzing and Objective rules, and Mercs Campaign integration. I would upload it directly but someone ruined PDFs for all of us.

>>95986490
you should be concerned when retards are allowed control over your favorite settings.

>>95986198
You're right, that's horrible.

I'd sooner just determine the overall height of the taller mech, count the number of tall hexes that still remain between both (in this case, 9) and the fact that the number exceeds that height, determine LOS is blocked?

>>95986508
More Contracts when, I want to hire more ladies like Esme

>>95986575
My work on custom contracts is on hold due to shenanigans that will make sense eventually

Funnily enough I actually plan on using a similar character to Esme when writing fiction. I want to do stuff about a planetary ruling family of Space Spaniards going full Don Quixote, with the difference that when you're in a Battlemech, you can in fact slay a windmill.

A newbie to your group has just bought the AGoAC box set and wants to get a lance pack to round out his collection to a company. What box would you recommend he give him a good starting stable of mechs and why?

>>95986604
Inner Sphere Command Lance, because like AGOAC it has generic mechs everyone can use, and fills out the rest of the most iconic unseen.

>>95986538
that's a simple and effective solution. sometimes my group opens up tabletop sim just to get a physical 3d example out if shit looks a bit fucky.

>>95986538
>>95986624
There are other ways too.

>>95986325
No. That’s why they never did. Their relationship was kept secret from the public because both houses couldn’t approve of an official union between top nobles of ancient enemies.

I don’t think that Hanse lived long enough for the relationship to be fully consummated. I believe it was kept secret from Teddy for a very long time.
Hohiro knew almost right away after the training session on Outreach.

Takashi eventually knew and he approved, so long as they kept it secret.


Omi was killed by “The Assasin” on Luthien near the end of the FCCW, on Katherine Steiner’s orders.


One of the final scenes in the last FCCW book is Victor being told that the autopsy of Omi revealed that she had at some point delivered a child. It’s implied that this was victor’s child, and possibly happened during Operation Bulldog.


I never read any books after that so idk if this was ever followed up on. Also I could be off on details because it’s been a long time.

I ran this list a few days ago and I will tell you that it incorporated a lot of mechs, vehicles, and variants that I had never used before (except the Hetzer, but it was blown up before I actually got to use it because my opponent panicked and overcommitted to killing it)

And my impressions are:

> Hatamoto-Chi HTM-27T
It’s got okay speed, but it’s an under sinked brick house of a mech. You basically have to maintain a 2-2-1 volley fire at a stand to keep heat manageable, which is not very efficient frankly, worse if you plan to move it around a lot. Also its 2 SRM6s seem a bit underwhelming of a short-range defense, at least for its weight class. Might be a better tactic in situations where the opponent is too close to PPC it, to just rush the opponent and beat the shit out of it instead.

> Jenner JR7-D
4 medium lasers and an SRM4 is a damn good offensive capability for a fast light mech. But that 10 heat sinks is a goddamn joke. Just firing the MLs on the run puts it 4 into the red on heat, and that’s just not acceptable for a mech where speed is life. And few IS variants actually address it! It’s just a frustrating mech because it’s so obvious what it needs to be great (double heat sinks, that’s really it) and it’s like nobody makes that leap, even post Helm memory core Jenners don’t get it until seemingly the Ilkhan era.

> Mauler MAL-1R
Still under sinked for what it is, but not unmanageably so. Bracket fire the LRMs and AC2s and you have a long-range harasser unit that’s got enough armor to make getting rid of it a task and a half. Plus if you get too close, BAM! 2 ERLLs for your trouble. Though it still needs to focus on getting out of short range because the poor heat sinks means it can’t bracket fire the ERLLs without overheating. Bit of a design flaw if you ask me.

> Panther PNT-9R
It’s a Vindicator 1R, but with less weapons on it.

> Quickdraw QKD-4G
Seemed like it’s a good flanking mech. Very annoying for the other guy.

>>95986612
>mechs everyone can use
But that's all mechs.

>>95986715
It was, and the funniest part is what they called that kid. I want you to really think about what the people behind BT would name a half-Davion, half-Kurita child.
You ready? You want to know what the grandson of Hanse "the Fox" Davion was named, the secret lovechild whose very existence is an embarrassment to everyone and who needs to keep his heritage a secret forever? You can never unknow this information once you learn it. Kitsune Kurita.

>>95986808
>spoiler
No way they actually named it that, you can’t possibly say that name with a straight face

>>95986604
IS Command or Battle lances. Theyre classic designs that fit into most formations and if they want to make their unit fluffy theyre pretty well spread across the different houses.

>>95986772
Youre right he should get the comstar packs so he has some heckin craberinos and a black knight like every other new players first unit.

>>95986910
You know what is the best pack for a new player?
> whatever pack has the mechs they like
If thats a heckin craberino so be it

>>95986647
oh those are lovely terrain pieces! where did you get those from?

>>95986808
I didnt know that, but the reason i stopped paying attention to Battletech for a long time was the general retardation of everything post FCCW.

>>95986744
> Bulldog Medium Tank
You know what? It’s not a bad way to sneak another LL onto the field. Plus the 2 SRM4s are also a nice bit of crit-seeking follow-up.

> Crusader CRD-5M
Just a superb Crud variant, well-Sinked, good spread of weapon types, very maneuverable thanks to the jump jets, the AMS is a nice bit of protection, and adding CASE to its left side (where all the ammo is) was an absolute necessity for Cruds. It’s just a nice mech.

> Griffin GRF-3M
Like the CRD-5M, the GRF-3M basically fixes everything that made me want to write off the Griffin, fixed the heating issue so it can fire both the PPC and LRM together without overheating, and gave it a small laser so it isn’t completely SOL if something gets too close. But also went the extra mile to give it a BIGGER LRM launcher and replaced the PPC with an ERPPC that doesn’t have a minimum range, making it even nastier at close range. I like this Griff.

> Galleon GAL-102
Speedy little harasser tank, very good at being very obnoxious

> Javelin JVN-10N
Eh, it just came off as a very “ehh” mech

>>95987014
They're Hextech files from Thunderhead Studios. They've got STLs to match most of the current gen paper maps.

New Tier List: https://tiermaker.com/create/battletech-tro-3028-18414357

And my personal rankings.

I can't unsee the sad face on the Emperor's torso.

>>95986534
Considering rifles get a -3 to damage against most units then no, its actually worse than an AC/5.
>>95986379
Meanwhile they just announced a Shadowrun kickstarter...
>>95986402
I could see them doing small kickstarters but their track record really isn't that good when it comes to delivering. They've had three fuckups in a row with Battletech kickstarters alone. Their other project kickstarters the less said the better.
>>95986604
Really whatever you want. Anons suggesting Command/Battle Lances are good suggestions though the Heavy and Support is a good choice imo. Heavy Recon also looks good.
The trick though is getting said packs these days as CGL can't into shipping.
>>95987314
I don't think this takes into account variants and overrates some designs while underrates others with some designs that more or less perform the same exact role different tiers apart.

>>95987371
>I don't think this takes into account variants and overrates some designs while underrates others with some designs that more or less perform the same exact role different tiers apart.
I did take into a count variants. It's why mechs like the Locust are sitting in B while most of the other Bugs are in D. And rarity/cost were also vague factors. Can you give me some examples?

>>95986910
It really bothers me when anons say things like "mechs that faction X can have" in definitive verbiage, like you're trying to force new players into false restrictions.
You can paint yourself into a "lore" corner if you like, but even the lore disagrees with those restrictions.

>>95987441
While its true that there are no hard set rules about force composition in Btech, it is also true that most local groups will put some kind of guidelines on era and availability for their games.

This wont usually be applied to a newcomer's first few games, but once youre in the scene people will expect you to present with a somewhat plausible force.

For things like the basic Crab, the good thing is those are reasonably available to everyone during the 31st century. Same with the Black Night as long as its the -7, and the Highlander -733. Unfortunately the rest of the Comstar Level II pack is pretty definitively Comstar exclusive until post dark age, if not outright extinct post Jihad.

Yes, you are free to do whatever you want, but since this is a quasi historical wargame most people prefer to face somewhat plausible force compositions.

>>95987401
The main one is that you put the Warhammer below the Marauder, the Warhammer 6D will absolutely devastate the majority of Marauder variants with only the Marauder 3D in a position to give it trouble and even then the Marauder side and leg protection is a complete joke. If it turns into gunnery duel the Marauder loses.

You've put the Hatchetman in D tier when for all purposes its basically a 45 ton Panther although I figure most people tend to get too distracted by the Hatchet and not the AC/10?

Dragon 1G is actually a good generalist and so weirdly is the Cataphract. 2X

Atlas RS is a great all rounder and really if I am honest should be the base Atlas variant, not the D.

Not sure why the Stalker is lower than a Battlemaster, the Battlemaster isn't really an all rounder while the Stalker is?

These though are all mostly nitpicks since you have said cost is coming into factor here and if you are say using BV then I am inclined to agree with your decisions more. There's quite a few SLDF downgrades you have missed like the Mercur. Mongoose, Sentinel etc that are available in 3028.
Also no Flashman in God tier?

>>95987401
Rating the wasp above the stinger.. why?
The 2ML Stinger blows the wasp out the water

>>95987314
I would not put the Jenner as an S-tier mech if only because 90% of all IS Jenner variants are criminally under sinked.

And honestly the Flea deserves to be higher, if only by the virtue that it has more anti-mech weapons than many other bug mechs.

>>95987593
I agree with him if his reason was that the Wasp can mount infernos which makes a great anti-vehicle and anti-infantry platform

>>95987619
Large Laser Flea is not to be trifled with.

>>95987562
> You've put the Hatchetman in D tier when for all purposes it’s basically a 45 ton Panther although I figure most people tend to get too distracted by the Hatchet and not the AC/10?
Well by that logic the Hatchetman should be ranked higher than the panther; since that means the Hatchetman is effectively a 45-ton panther that can BONK other mechs.

>>95987562
6D is good, but the other variants hold it back too much imo for it to rank much higher, while the Marauder has a much higher average over all.

Hatchetman has inferior range and in some cases inferior armor to the Panther, with focus around getting in close to use the cannon and hatchet, which is what knocked it down so far.

Dragon is not a good generalist. The AC 5 and rear lasers really hold it back in the damage department, meaning you're best bet is to run in and start throwing hands, only it doesn't have the close range firepower to back that up like the quickdraw does.

I've never seen the RS before, and you're right, it does look good. That might bump it up a bit honestly.

The Stalker and Beemer have very similar roles, that being to close on the enemy intensifying fire as you go, but the Beemer is better optimized imo.

And yes, I missed a lot of the SLDF mechs, I'm pulling from several different TRO's and it's easy to loose some mechs. Flashie would 100% be in S tier. I'll update the list.

>>95985840 (OP)
I haven't seen that art before; where is it from?

If you were forced against your will to make one major permanent change to the setting as a whole, what would it be?

>>95987314
Let me post one much sillier.

>>95985877
Turns in BattleTech take place without a clock and are long enough that it's not really a pain in the ass to bracket fire.

They're arguably suboptimal a lot of the time, but they're hardly "hard".

>>95986108
>I would like for it to be industrials and utility stuff
>>95986402
>Or industrialmechs and MODs.
WorkerMechs... RISE UP!!!

>>95986744
>except the Hetzer, but it was blown up before I actually got to use it because my opponent panicked and overcommitted to killing it
Distraction Hetzer still paid for itself then!

>>95987314
Everyone rates the Thunderbolt so highly, but I've always found it mediocre. What am I doing wrong?

>>95987741
Comstar loses atTukayyid

Do you guys actually declare all attacks before resolution? That sounds like a pain in the ass.

>>95987774
Yes. Because if you resolve as you declare it removes the risk of overkilling a target as you can just stop when it's dead and move onto the next. It's an additional layer of strategy and mind games on top of positioning.

>>95987690
Dragon 1G has a PPC btw anon.
Also Stalker can generally call on a pair of large lasers + LRM volleys then switch to medium laser and SRM spam when a target gets close.
The FattyMaster just can't shine a candle to what the Stalker does. PPC + 4 forward mediums and an SRM6 just ain't going to cut it. Worse if you play with quirks cause the Stalker automatically gets four free heatsinks so you can guess who is going to be unloading more often?

>>95987741
Make Victor Steiner-Davion a cute girl.

>>95987741
>If you were forced against your will to make one major permanent change to the setting as a whole, what would it be?
Wait, are we changing things we do like, or what?

>>95987741
Make Katherine Steiner-Davion a cute boy.

>>95987314
>>95987562
Updated: https://tiermaker.com/create/battletech-tro-3028-18414357

>>95987756
It just does good at everything. The stock is good at every range, the 5SS might be the best heavy in the game, it just does good for it's cost. Heat can be tricky, and you have to dump the MG ammo, but once you get it to work, it works wonders.

>>95987791
I'm retarded, and agree to disagree respectively. You can make your own list if you feel like it.

>>95987314
>Archer
>S
really?

>>95987806
>Wait, are we changing things we do like, or what?
You can change anything you want but provided it is a big enough change to the setting that you wouldn't like it.

>>95987800
>>95987816
Honestly, this almost makes more sense.

...Is incest better or worse if it involves pegging?

>>95987741
Clan Wolf-in-Exile is pants-on-head retarded.

Instead, have the Wolves work with the LyrCom during the Refusal War and get Abjured for their trouble. You can have the Falcons absorb most of the Crusaders Harvest-Trial-style.

Either that, or just kill Clan Wolf except for a few small renegade bands. But CWiE as currently implemented is just stupid.

>>95987756
Its one of these designs that can generally give a good showing against everything but it is not going to be optimal for any given situation. So basically a jack of all trades master of none but a good one.
If you play campaigns then you really want one on your side as it has good quirks and engage any threat. If you know what in advance you are facing bring something else.
>>95987820
Downgraded Hussar ain't around in 3028, they show up after that.
Also
>No Hoplite, Hornet, Firefly, Falcon, Imp, Shogun or Merlin
Granted some of those were Goon exclusives but Hornet and Merlin did make their way around. Raven also should be on this list.

>>95987754
>Distraction Hetzer still paid for itself then!

Honestly, most of the time AC/20s work more as fire magnets and area denial than as actual weapons. The Hetzer is a sweet spot: enough armor to tank some hits, little enough armor that killing is seems realistic, and cheap!

>>95987741
Amaris wins

>>95987892
Fuck me, I forgot the Chameleon too. The CGL 3025 better put all these fuckers in one book, I swear to God.

>>95987935
And the Bonbardier.

>>95987535
>that spacing
what are you doing here newfag?

>>95987964
Bombardier*
It's not a good mech, but it is interesting as a lostech mech that never actually went extinct. Nobody used it because the missiles it fired did go extinct and run out of stock, but the mech itself was never in danger. Irian made an even shittier version using good old generic LRMs, but outside of the FWL everyone just parked them or mothballed them and then left them alone until after Helm where they got some more refits.

>>95987935
There's also the Gladiator as well. Probably a few other unicorns been forgotten as well.
>The CGL 3025 better put all these fuckers in one book, I swear to God
If talking about the TRO 3025 rerelease? I think its just going to be a copy paste of the original with more typos.
There's the Succession War TRO but that is full of weird shit like the Galahad 1D still being around till 3028. Wish there was just a TRO 3028 that just covers shit in the Fourth Succession War era.
>>95987964
That's on the list, just that shit everyone thinks everyone automatically forgets about it.

>>95987892
Updated.

>>95987988
No, I got it with the SLDF update. He's between the Rifleman and the Catapult.

>>95988023
I don't see it.

>>95988015
>Gladiator
I was about to start raging, but mercifully they went extinct in the Reunification war.

It's not a one to one copy and paste job from what I've seen, it does have some new variants. So hopefully the consolidate all of the desperate mechs in to a single book.

>>95988060
I used this image

If they ever did invent a capitalist faction they'd probably end up being the final boss of the setting.

>>95987800
Anyone under 5'6" and 130lbs by age 20 is basically a girl. Anyone over 5'6" or 130lbs by age 20 is a man.

>>95988075
I see a Crusader, Centurion, Cataphract, and Scorpion in that area.

>>95988076
Aren't the Lyrans mostly capitalist?

>>95988063
>I was about to start raging, but mercifully they went extinct in the Reunification war.
Anon not sure how to tell you this but...
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1200/gladiator-gld-3r
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1201/gladiator-gld-4r

>>95988140
Nah, they're still feudalist, just relatively wealthy by feudal standards.

Hey question:

Can a mech with a hatchet use said hatchet against combat vehicles? And if so, at what range? I tried to look it up quickly in the TW book at the time but all I could find was a rule that mechs attempting to kick a combat vehicle must occupy the same space. But a hatchet strike isn’t a kick and I couldn’t at the time find a rule saying mechs can’t swing a hatchet at a combat vehicle, or that it would behave any differently than a mech-on-mech strike.

>>95987742
>Jeremy, didn't you just buy an Atlas?

>>95988115
Anon I think you might be blind?

>>95988140
More than anyone else they are the "Merchant-Industrialist faction" of the setting, but as with all houses their overall form of governance is feudal.

>>95988161
I'm looking at your image, I'm not going to another site.

>>95988115
Anon, I don't know what to tell you.

>>95988142
*sigh*

>>95988146
Feudalism is a form of government, capitalism is an economic model. As they are two different things they can be both without issue.

For the record: you might be confusing feudalism with a palace economy, they do tend to appear in the same place but they are two distinct things.

Lyrans are capitalists. Strictly speaking, so is the FWL and Canopus too for that matter.

>>95988084
Being malnourished doesn't make you a woman, tranny.

>>95988158
Page 150 of TW says that you can only punch a combat vehicle if your mech is adjacent and one level lower than the vehicle or the vehicle is one level higher than the mech, so I assume the same would apply to physical weapon attacks.

>>95988205
Manorialism is the typical economic model of feudalism which is what Battletech adheres to.

>>95988193
It gets worse.

>>95988206
I'm a 5'11" 180lb man. You sound like you didn't make the cutoff.

>>95988221
LARP

>>95988084
>t.Taurian

>>95988221
>180lbs
I hope you are buff, anon, because you are above your proper weight.

>>95988161
>>95988193
Post it as an image on the imageboard.

>>95988236
18% bodyfat last time I checked. I just hate doing cardio besides swimming, and I only swim once a week.

>>95988212
If you read the actual source books you will notice that every state has lots of different corporations, many of which are either not controlled by nobles or belong to people who were ennobled after they gained a lot of economic power.

Paying taxes in goods or services is a sign of a major deprivation and is only a feature on the worst off, most neglected worlds.

>>95987774
>Record sheet in page protector
>"OK anon, I am going to attack the Jenner with my LRM, PPC and the Thunderbolt with my 3 Medium Lasers"
>Proceed to dot the LRM 20 and PPC with a green dry erase marker and the 3 Medium Lasers in different locations with a red dry erase marker

>>95988160
Not even Jeremy could make the Atlas leave Sub-Zero. Some people would disagree, but some people read The Guardian.

>>95988255
So you are pretty buff, and I'm alright with that.
Just be mindful of your health, bro, we all need to take care of ourselves.

>>95988288
You can have corporations without capitalism, they were very often seen under mercantalism for example, the East India Company and Russian-American Company being two prominent examples.

>>95988289
I like to circle the range band they're currently at. So if the Jenner is at 6 hexes I'm circling the min for the LRM and the short for the PPC, and if the Thunderbolt is at 4 hexes I'm circling medium for all 3 lasers.

>>95988311
The corporations in BT are pretty capitalist though. The drac ones less so. It doesn't come up basically ever in the main plot, but the corporations sneaking around behind the government to make sales is a pretty common theme. The entire reason Chargers are widely available is because that company sold them to everyone illegally. The Awesome 10KM is notable for not having any loopholes or oversights for the manufacturer to use to sell it to everyone. "It fell off of a space truck" is a perfectly valid explanation for how a merc got a mech, because most of the manufacturers are pure capitalists and only ever have ethical ideas when they're brainstorming tax deductible PR stunts that save more than they cost.

>>95988311
Now you are splitting hairs about what capitalism is. The fact remains everyone is battletech is a lot closer to capitalism than 12th century european style feudalism.

Wasn't one of the major subfactions in the dark age just 'evil capitalists with mechs'? Something raiders?

>>95988338
Even better. Not hard at all, right?

>>95988351
Not particularly. The wealth remains tied in the land, not in capital. Nations are far more invested in claiming territory than they are with investing in that territory or increasing trade, and there's no real sense of comparative advantage at work. The setting has to stay this way since otherwise it wouldn't make sense for the setting to remain so poor and technologically backwards.

>>95988356
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Bannson%27s_Raiders

>>95988311
>>95988212
You talk like someone who went into debt for a history degree before having a career in a completely unrelated field.

>>95988377
You talk like someone who doesn't understand the whole point of Battletech.

>>95988367
It's almost required if you're properly tracking heat.

>>95988383
If you say the whole point of Battletech is anything besides 'giant robot combat' I'm going to laugh at you for being that far up your own ass.

>>95988398
To make 'giant robot combat' make sense they had to get rid of capitalism and create a fundamentally feudal-manorial and mercantalist setting so that the nations involved would be poor enough to justify said robot combat.

>>95987897
This is why you bring more ac20 than the enemy can focus down

>>95987830
The archer is a cool mech. Everyone has one, why? Because its comfy, its shoots good, and its tough.

>but ah... you forgot something

Nope, no i didn't. Moving on.

>hang on hang on. Its SLOW. Uncool.

Look, just because you are mad and like to strap yourself into a flea, some of us like big boy mechs for grownups.

(You just read that in jeremy and richards voice)

Well probably some controversial choices here. Attempted to base mechs strongest variants, relative bang for buck and how easy they are to effectively use. Added Raven as anon didn't have it on list even though 1X is available come 3023.

>>95988236
>>95988255
>t. faggots fantasizing

>>95987314

>hating on the Stinger
>hating on the Ostscout

this is what Steinerbrain does to a man

>>95988468
Spider in the same tier as the Flea is absolute madness

>>95988468
Mongoose is literally the same as the locust.

>>95988212
Capitalism never really works for space settings anyways. Capitalism is a system built on infinite growth. Space is functionally infinite for all intents and purposes. Thus any setting where you have capitalism operating in space would, functionally, be infinitely expanding, which isn't suitable for most stories.

>>95988424
Trying to describe “capitalism” as a form of government sounds about as stupid as calling “Democracy” an economic model.

Yes it’s giant robots fighting in a neo-feudalist space opera. That doesn’t say a damn thing about the setting’s economy and nobody actually cares. So get off your soapbox and start talking about what matters. Like how to make the Javelin not be a mediocre mech.

>>95988574
The Javelin is a better Commando.

>>95988574
Correct, I wasn't describing the government, I was describing the economy. The setting is feudalist in politics, and manorialist and mercantalist in economics. All of this is to facilitate a small setting where giant robots make sense.

>>95988574
What if we rip out its crappy missiles and replace them with armor, heat sinks and medium lasers.

>>95988586
>>95988574
Give it an autocannon.

>>95988446
> The archer is a cool mech. Everyone has one, why? Because its comfy, its shoots good, and its tough.

It’s a missile boat that can’t bracket fire its missiles without overheating. That’s not the mark of a good missile boat.

> but it punch really good
If it was a better missile boat then it wouldn’t need to be a good pugilist. Basically to be good at one implies that it’s not very good at the other.

>>95988581
I know you are very excited to show off you know the word manorialist but you should know that word does not describe the setting as depicted.

>>95988576
Debatable

>>95988581
Feudalism is a government not an economy. Manorialism is often associated with but not a requirement. Now shut up.

>>95988586
So… build a completely different mech? I mean sure, that’d work.

>>95988589
How are you going to fit anything bigger than an AC2 onto that tiny frame?

>>95988600
There are good Archers, it's just not the standard 3025 Archer.

I very much enjoy the clanbuster Archer.

>>95988571
Space may be infinite, but as the Battletech setting clearly shows: it takes significant capital to develop anything, either on a planet or in space.

Thus everyone fights over the most habitable or resource rich planets that ALSO already have had significant investment AND are logistically easy to access, and in the post 2SW era they stop destroying valuable capital assets and start focusing on capturing them with minimal losses (of capital).

>>95988619
>Feudalism is a government not an economy.
Correct, feudalism is the GOVERNMENT, manorialism is the ECONOMY. Well, some of the factions are manorialist, some are just mercantalist.

>>95988468
Raven is now included, as is the 1D Galahad for >>95988216

>>95988574
>Trying to describe “capitalism” as a form of government sounds about as stupid as calling “Democracy” an economic model

But anon, capitalism is a form of government, one that every modern state has employed. Bourgeois rule, the rest is keeping the proles in line (the only exceptions being the only proletarian dictatorships: the Paris Commune and USSR up to the late 20s)

>>95988619
Here is a picture of 1986's TRO:3025 section on Javelin variants.

Capitalism and free markets are a spook. Mercantalism is capitalism without the emotional baggage that comes from a post WW2 only one great western power vs Communist Bloc world view.

In the Battletech setting with multiple great powers who distrust each other, post WW2 economic theory doesnt work at all.

Within the factions that dont practice full command economics (Capellans) or fascist state capitalism (Kuritans) they are internally capitalist but again they would never consider free trade because they dont want to see trans-border outflows of capital and dont want to import billions of new serf unskilled labor.

>>95986744
>> Jenner JR7-D
The Jenner is a hit and run machine. Zoom in close, fire into someone's CT(R), then jump behind cover to cool off. Rinse and repeat.

>>95988689
Yeah man, mercantilism is when you aren't openly trading with people you are currently at war with.

>>95988623
Well that's also why the setting destroys so much technology, asteroid mining along would single handedly render mining planets obsolete if anybody in the setting was technologically capable of it.

>>95988713
lmao you fucking retard. Your own image describes black market blockade runners. Wartime profiteers moving goods between enemies by slipping across the line of conflict or using a neutral third party nation to transport goods. Way to prove my point.

>>95988719
Yeah, but it makes sense in the context of the first to Succ Wars where each great house thought they would win by utilizing extreme total war tactics, and then by the 3rd we get the required setting for Mechs to be treasured heirlooms piloted by noble knight type warriors and combat devolving to near ritualistic tribal conflict levels.

>>95988736
Even long before the Succ Wars though the setting had already descended into feudalism, hell it had done that before they even left Earth.

>>95988736
The fact that there is any legal trade at all between nations at war is an indication of a deep commitment to free trade.

>>95988807
Unless you're making some kind of libertarian straw argument, you're wrong about that. When they first left Earth, the Terran Alliance was a hyper-NATO UN globohomo government. It was only after that collapsed in the face of a ruinously expensive colonial crackdown war that the Terran Hegemony popped up under the idea that one guy running things is better than hyper-NATO bureaucrats running things.

>>95988826
No it isnt you absolute moron. In every conflict there are bootleggers and blockade runners and war profiteers willing to risk the ire of authorities on both sides and the state of active combat in order to move goods and sell them at high profits. This isnt "free trade" as a national policy. This is criminal enterprise motivated by self interest. Are you so dense as to be arguing that this ONLY occurs under free trade capitalism?

>>95988807
Yes, feudalism as a form of governance, justified in the setting due to the difficulties of administration over interstellar distances.
However in the Lyran Commonwealth, FWL and FedSuns, individuals are free to invest money into a new corporate venture which will spend that money on physical assets that are then to be used to generate a return on investment.
This is "capitalism" without the free trade emotional bugaboo, and existed under Mercantilism. The only difference is that the government will not allow you to take said capital and use it to build a factory in a competing state where labor is far cheaper, and then let you import those goods without paying huge tariffs.

Draconis combine practices essentially fascist state capitalism similar to Imperial Japanese Zaibatsus.

Capellans are obviously a command economy akin to the USSR or pre reform China.

>>95988879
Hey champ read the first sentence of the third paragraph for me. Would you be surprised to learn that there was absolutely no trade at all, even in useless items, between the united states and japan from december 1941 to september 1945?

>>95988872
>When they first left Earth, the Terran Alliance was a hyper-NATO UN globohomo government
I don't know if you can call Europe subjugating America hyper-NATO so much as just hyper-Imperialist.

>>95988879
>This is "capitalism" without the free trade emotional bugaboo, and existed under Mercantilism. The only difference is that the government will not allow you to take said capital and use it to build a factory in a competing state where labor is far cheaper, and then let you import those goods without paying huge tariffs.

And that's a good thing.

>>95988922
>conquering
They threatened to boycott the US if they didn't join up after the rest of NATO and the EU equivalent joined. The US didn't want to because they preferred doing that thing where they get all the benefits of a treaty without actually being bound by it. The US then joined anyway, then some of the ex-USSR, and then most of Asia also joined because they were now facing down the entire rest of the world. The US basically took the whole thing over after joining.

>>95988909
>no trade at all during a total war between two peoples who possessed a total racial hate for each other, separated by the largest ocean on earth, which was the active battleground for most of the war.

So, was the United States Mercantilist during WW2 or does total war create unique circumstances in which nations bend or break their peacetime rules?

Was the 3rd Succ war a total war?

>>95988944
>The US basically took the whole thing over after joining.
Ehhh, only in terms of bloodline, culturally Europe was definitely in charge.

>"LOSTECH" vanity plate is available in my state.

Somebody convince me not to get a 5 year on my classic.

>>95988956
All the important worlds near Terra are American in style and culture. A lot of the European worlds are out in what the TA would have called the periphery, or even the deep periphery. Skye was way out on the fringes when it became a capital P Problem and killed the whole thing.

>>95988962
Only if it's actually a classic and not something they made 5,000 of.

>>95988678
That’s not too bad. Not too bad at all. Now it’s a contender with the Flea for the role of harasser.

>>95988704
That’s not an efficient hit-and-run mech; especially given the Jenner’s speed. Ideally it should be conducting hit-and-runs the way Locusts, Fleas, Fire Falcons, and spiders should be doing it, run up behind a mech, hit it from behind as hard as it can, maybe kick it if the opportunity presents itself, then run at the speed of mach-Jesus to put itself behind another mech (because speed is life), and pound it in the back as hard as it can. If it’s doing its job right then it should be striking a mech every round, time hiding and cooling down is time wasted for harrier mechs.

That the Jenner must hold back and cool down after a strike is an inefficiency that is going to be held against it when compared to similar mechs.

>>95988973
>All the important worlds near Terra are American in style and culture
They're more British than anything.

>>95989006
Not him but
>New Dallas
>British

>>95988942
Its certainly in the interest of the Lyran Commonwealth both as a state and people to put up barriers to the outflow of capital, in as much as "capital" in Btech is mostly associated with industrial capacity that clearly has the potential to shift to war materiel.

>>95989006
>>95989009
>>95988973
Isnt it part of the original setting creation's intent to make things a bit different from the mid 1980s America vs USSR paradigm? Thus America is given its due in the early years of human expansion but eventually nobody cares and it becomes irrelevant? Much like there is no USSR faction or area, yet there are a few important Russian cultured worlds and obvious Russian names for key figures.

Obviously the Scotts are the most influential culture of all time for the ages.

>>95988621
heresy! all archers are good archers!

>>95988994
The Jenner is also hitting harder than any of its competitors, with a potential 28pts of damage. An LCT-1E is doing 16. A spider is doing 10. The 6/9/0 fleas are too slow to even be in the same conversation, and comparing clan tech to IS isn't worth discussing. Yes a Locust or Spider will probably do more damage over time, and the spider can jump 8 to really up its survivability, but the Jenner is more likely to get the knockout blow on any individual shooting phase.

>>95989009
I'd say following a monarchy makes much more of a difference than having a city called Dallas. Especially since American names just come from British naming conventions anyways.

>>95987741
Jihad is wobbies purging clan homeworlds so the IS clans have no outside support

>>95987741
Admiral Takeo Kurita is Victorious in the Battle of Samar. A cowed America seeks terms with Imperial Japan. The first nuclear weapons are used on Berlin instead.

>>95989026
bazed and DCMS pilled

>>95989009
It's not that there's no connection between a planet's name and its people, but it's not 100%. New Dallas could well be dominated by descendants of British colonists.

>>95989016
America is given its due as the main cultural inspiration for the Terran Hegemony, who were long gone when the setting was started in 3025. They didn't want to have an active American faction since it would automatically overshadow everyone else for their primarily American audience. They didn't quite succeed since a lot of Americanisms were given to the Fedsuns despite them supposedly being smelly frogs who happened to speak English.
In the backstory, the USSR collapses on schedule, but then Soviet reformers win against Yeltsin and it triggers a massive civil war as many of the ex-soviet states wanted to remain ex-soviet. NATO only stepped in to stop nuclear proliferation, but the fighting was so bad that the whole world basically ended up in an economic slump and millions died. There isn't a literal EU, but there is a sort of proto-EU economic co-op thing that merges with most of NATO to form the Western Union. America joins it eventually after it threatens to just leave them out of its economy. Then they absorb some of the ex-soviet states who wanted to join the Western economy anyway, then some more, then they butted heads with the Asian equivalent of NATO for a while before that also got absorbed. Representing about 80% of all countries on Earth and definitely not being confined to the West at that point, they rename themselves to the Terran Alliance and start looking to space, eventually figuring out jump drives and colonizing nearby stars. A lot of rogue colonies also go out, but the alliance government can't or won't do anything about it. Eventually the Outer Reaches centered on Skye rebel over taxes, the Alliance stretches itself to the absolute breaking point, its unpopular ruling party get voted out, and the new party makes one of the stupidest calls in the entire setting, saying that any colony outside of 60ly is free to go. In fact, you don't have a choice, all Terran Alliance assets are pulling back to that line and will shoot to kill.

>>95988468
Why the Bombardier hate? It's just a derpier Archer, why put it so low. For that matter, why is the Archer a C?

>>95989016
>Thus America is given its due in the early years of human expansion but eventually nobody cares and it becomes irrelevant?

It's more that America mostly blew its load in the Hegemony, which has been thoroughly raped by 30XX.

>>95989064
>They didn't quite succeed since a lot of Americanisms were given to the Fedsuns

Aside from "muh freedoms", what's American about the FedSuns?

>>95989061
Christ it seems like the IQ of this thread has taken a nosedive, is it all the same guy?

>>95989072
They're the good guys, just like 1980s United State.

>>95989064
Almost immediately, this results in the core worlds descending into absolute fucking anarchy since their economy just retracted to hell and the whole thing started to burn down. Eventually the Camerons won and outlawed political parties entirely, and we know how that goes.
Everyone outside of the line got even more fucked. Many colonies were barely even established and many more were reliant on imports because they weren't fully terraformed yet (unlike later, when the future star league atomized economies on purpose to foster dependence). The ones who had their shit together started taking over their neighbors and filling in the role of exporter when they could, but many worlds still died. Eventually they all started to butt heads as the map began to fill in with colors. The FWL formed first, then the states that would eventually win their local wars to become the rest of the successor lords. By the time they got back to the TA line it had become the TH and was ready to scrap with the rest of them in the Age of War. After a while of nuclear firebombs and bioweapon plagues, they all agreed to the Ares Conventions except the Taurians and United Hindu Collective, which led to the Cappies continuing to nuke the Taurians for a while longer.
Eventually the FWL and TH decide to join up in a star league and try to get everyone else in, then the Reunification War happens and the Ares Conventions are thrown out, then Amaris happens, and we go on to the big succ all the way up to 3025.

>>95989064
>>95989094

>>95989065
It's like an Archer with depression.

>>95987869
>You can change anything you want but provided it is a big enough change to the setting that you wouldn't like it.
But that's the thing, I'd remove starter ClanTech disgusting advantage over the Inner Sphere.
Them retaining LosTech capabilities in wake of Little Nicky is stretching disbelieve enough.
So while it wouldn't do much narratively, it'd still be shuttering almost every Clan design on the Tabletop.

>>95987897
>The Hetzer is a sweet spot: enough armor to tank some hits, little enough armor that killing is seems realistic, and cheap!
I mean cheap and somewhat mobile are its strong suits; Hetzer gonna Hetz and you best respect that.

>>95988076
>final boss of the setting
I think you mean "Protagonist."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2C1Bh8FTlpY

>>95988084
>Anyone over 5'6" or 130lbs by age 20 is a man.
...So my sister is a Man?

>>95989065
It has zero ammo longevity, thin armor and its variants have a potent choice of back up weapons as a single srm4, an srm 4 and a machine gun, or a single small laser. Its all the worse aspects of the other heavy lrm boats without any of the advantages. An Archer has decent armor and can throw hands, a Catapult has jump jets and 4 med lasers, Cruds have a variety of back up weapons. Bombardiers dont get gud until the OA's arrow iv variant which I want to say isnt u til the DA almost.

>>95989143
crud has fist fire deadfire lrm ammo missile fist ass fuckenings. because everyone loves punching crap and then pumping 15 lrm's into it zero fused.

>>95989067
Plus giant mecha have always been a thoroughly un-American concept. There's a reason the losers of WW2 are obsessed with mechs.

>>95989171
You look at america today and tell yourself that america won.

>>95989184
patton was right, the us should have turned around and nuked moscow and the red army deployed into europe. it would have saved the world untold grief and suffering.

If Char was around in 3025, what mech would he use?

>>95989072
Theres very little in their characterization in the novels to depict them as the Franco-British culture that they theoretically are, aside from some family and planet names.
Probably a consequence of American Authors writing for American audience.

>>95989064
I appreciate the detailed deep lore writeup, but lets not pretend that the dominating culture for the people and events that matter regarding the foundational turning point of the setting (Amaris Coup) arent Russian and Scottish.

the FWL are often described as the most American of the setting in the 31st century as they have a very strong parliament that theoretically can depose the executive via legal means and often does obstruct his intentions.
Also i vaguely remember that they actually do have some American derived culture planets or sectors or whatever.

>>95989184
If only we had embraced true free market capitalism more and not succumbed to dirty Mercantilism.

>>95989196
A Horned Owl. It started production in 2835, so he can obviously have one in 3025, anon.

>>95989184
America wins even when it loses.

>>95988956
>culturally Europe was definitely in charge.
We always have been and always will be. It's so gratifying to watch a bunch of upstart colonials destroying themselves.

>>95989026
1: excuse me, the FLE-16 is a 9/14/0 and is very much worth considering

2: the 28 damage potential of the Jenner is irrelevant when you put to practical consideration that the Jenner is never going to do a full alpha strike on anything. If bracket firing its MLs is enough to put it 4 into the red, who the fuck is going to fire those SRMs and put it 7 into the red? Especially when the first heat penalty is a speed reduction and mechs like the Jenner can’t afford to slow down, that’s how it gets ambushed and blown up.

3: what I’ve seen is being able to put constant pressure on the enemy is far more effective than intermittent pressure. Larger mechs can afford to volley-fire because they are still putting a lot of hurt down-range even during the lulls. A mech like a Jenner can’t afford it. It needs to be able to hit hard and hit hard a lot or it’s going to get passed over for a mech that can hit constantly. Think of this, realistically a Jenner might be doing 4-1 volley cycle if it wants to avoid those speed penalties. So 25 damage over 2 turns. A flea can fire both ML on a run and keep heat neutral, if it also fires the flamer it’s 1 into the red. So in two turns it’s doing 24 damage and 4 heat. And it can keep that up for another 2 rounds before it needs to stop using the flamethrower, which alone is enough to cause it to start bleeding off heat.

>>95989196
The OG Hanse Super Griffin.

>>95989076
Sarna isn't canon. And if New Dallas WAS colonized by the people from Dallas, it wouldn't be American anyway. It would be just another African shithole populated exclusively by criminals and the retarded.

>>95989196
Canonically a BattleMaster

>>95989259
>Quattro in a gold Bmer.

I have often been tempted to do this.

>>95989226
>1: excuse me, the FLE-16 is a 9/14/0 and is very much worth considering
It's a 9/14 in 3049, which means that it has to deal with pulse lasers considerably degrading its TMM, giving it an effective max of 2, on a chassis which an MPL anywhere but the CT goes internal, and it's still only doing a maximum of 10 damage.

2: the 28 damage potential of the Jenner is irrelevant when you put to practical consideration that the Jenner is never going to do a full alpha strike on anything. If bracket firing its MLs is enough to put it 4 into the red, who the fuck is going to fire those SRMs and put it 7 into the red? Especially when the first heat penalty is a speed reduction and mechs like the Jenner can’t afford to slow down, that’s how it gets ambushed and blown up.

That's why you can jump away to cool off, and can still be a threat if a light mech hunter follows it, since it's not taking accuracy penalties.

3:>>>
The most important thing is to get enemy mechs off the field. The Jenner can crack most heavies or lighter in a single turn of shooting. What's more, your opponent will be aware of this, so even if the Jenner isn't sitting behind them, they have to plan for it to run or even jump in, which severely constrains how they can deploy their mechs even if they win initiative.

You seem like you're scared of ever going past 4 heat. The scale goes up to 30, you've paid for it all, might as well use it when the juice is worth the squeeze.

WIP pic. Two came out great for speed painting. Other two will need to be stripped and redone or just painted normally.

Can't believe people are actually defending the Flea. Must've just picked up the merc box set.

>>95989285
What look are you going for here? This is just spray primed and drybrushed base coat. I cant tell which ones you think are bad, because its like step 2 of painting.

>>95989285
Posing on that wolverine makes it look like it's about to drop a deuce.

>>95989197
>Theres very little in their characterization in the novels to depict them as the Franco-British culture that they theoretically are, aside from some family and planet names.
>Probably a consequence of American Authors writing for American audience.

So it's less that they're American per se and more that they aren't anything else, so people assume they're American by default?

Why didn't that happen to the Purple Bird? Or did it, but no one cares because it's faction with the least airtime, including some Periphery factions?

>>95989367
Purple Bird gets lots of characterization in their regional assholes. Fedsuns get, uhhhhhhh... they're not Dracs or Caps who are authoritarian facists and authoritarian commies respectively. They like to fuck princesses. Princess fucking isn't really what I would call a well rounded cultural trait. They like the word freedom a lot.

>>95989367
The FedSuns is American in the sense that they have a big, modern military that is mostly not deranged at the expense of notably bad social programs, (which they are constantly trying to improve because they are a good guy faction).

To be fair, the fedsuns have been the designated losers for about 25 years IRL now.

>>95989377
What regional characterization?

>regulus: hippity hoppity get off of my property
>andurien: I hate Sian almost as much as I hate Atreus
>oriente: we're the sensible good guys
>marik: we're the assholes in charge of everything

None of that is cultural. I wanna say that Regulus might be Indian and Oriente might be like Spanish or French, and I remember someone's Greek (Marik?), but...

>>95989299
I went a bit too heavy dry brushing 9Q and Wolverine. Realized partway through on the Wolverine. Other two came out ideal. Got a bit too enthusiastic and didn't plan past this part for painting.
>>95989305
I'll fix it. Need to dig through my pile of spare bits.

>>95989385

Quiet! It is always 1992! Capellans are the underdogs!

>>95989294
it is a mech, to be fair. as long as you aren't murdering tooo many civilians at once. the rocks won't hurt your mech tooooo much if you kill them quick enough.

You know what I would do? I would turn the fedsun outback into space-sahel. Nominally independent, but the official militaries are mercenaries left behind by the fedsuns and more interested in getting protection money and playing ball with fedsun megacorporate interests than serving their nominal nations.
This would create a bottomless conflict region for mercs and also have a clear cut reason for the Taurians to hate the fedsuns as a state that actually broke out of that bullshit rather than the "way back when everyone including us were doing warcrimes, they did a warcrime on us!" excuse they have now.

>>95989387
The wolverine is crouching in preparation for a jump, it looks fine.

>>95989393
>>95989385
You know this got me thinking, there's really something to like about every faction in the 3rd/4th succession war era. The Lyrans are the hidebound aristocrats bumbling around in Assault mechs, the Capellans are the scrappy underdogs or the underhanded bad guys, the Combine are ostensibly the honorable and straight forward bad guys, the free world's league are a nest of vipers that work together just long enough to bite the foot of whoever steps into their mess, and the Fedsuns are nominally the blue eye fair haired boyscouts who fight for truth, justice, and the Davion way and manage to prevail through pluck despite the odds.

Fast forward past the clan invasion and none of the houses really feel the same, actually they all kinda seem the same of morally gray but with different flavors of window dressing. The FWL feels the same really, but that's mostly because they have had the least 'development'.

>>95989196
>Fast
>Kicks hard
>comparatively outclassed by every mech its up against
It's a charger

>>95989367
Pretty much. They are bland "good guys" whos only bad thing they ever did was when Hanse declared surpise war on the evil space chinese at his wedding. Again, since the authors were american writing for an American audience, the default assumed view is American.

However obviously the FWL is supposed to represent the closest POLITICAL group to the USA, with their parliament and internal squabbles and the executive constantly being foiled by the political details of their governmental process. But yes, since we never got any meaningful POV fiction from them, they are mostly ignored.

>>95989377
but they dont ever get any good characters in the fiction novels, which are mostly centered around Wolf (both dragoon and klan) and Davion and Kurita main characters. The only Marik with any real presence is the one who married the CC dude and then he ditched her so she goes to...wait for it...LIVE WITH OMI AND VICTOR.

>>95989385
Yes but the IP has been a total shit show for 25 years, and most people ignore anything past 3080 at the latest. You can tell by the total lack of talk of anything Ilkhan in these threads.
>>95989413
I like it. It vibes with the view that the FS has good PR and services in the core worlds but leaves its fringes out to dry, and gives a reason for the continued Taurian animosity.

>>95989464
The Free Worlds League's politics is a lot closer to the holy roman empire or austria-hungary than any period in american history.

>>95989432
The Charger is the Rocky Balboa of mechs

>>95989393
>Capellans are the underdogs
I mean, this, except unironically. Anti Chinese racism is alive and well, and Catalyst is one of the most egregious examples of it. As long as white American men are allowed to own Battletech, we will always be underdogs simply due to the inherent anti Chinese bias present in all white people. The saying says "write what you know", and so Americans write racism.

>>95989534
I believe this post is completely sincere. Excuse me, I need to get this head injury looked at.

>>95989534
>CGL
>anti-chink
Lol
Lmao

>>95989534
Obvious troll, but im willing to engage with the tired old trope of Btech anti chink racism for a moment.
In the 80s and 90s China was still a backwards nation trying to pretend at the 70s-80s greatness that was Japanese manufacturing.
Now in the last 20 years China has GROWN LARGER (in a political and economic sense) and the CC's standing in the Btech universe reflects that.

Though from what i understand (mostly via BTG since i wont read the new tripe) they are now getting nuked by ilKhan and his buddies or something.

Why are they so hated?

>>95989413
Make it Scottish Borders themed for more consistency, and because all of the current CGL folks are PROUD SCOTCH! (the early Scottish/Scottish-Irish settlers in the Appalachians were from the Borders).

>>95989636
In as much a summarised way as possible it's because they were the settings proverbial good guys without the layers of complexity and morale ambiguity that made other houses interesting.

Also at least in earlier fiction had a layer of plot armour covering them and associated characters.

More recently they have been replaced by Clan Wolf which have arguably been much more egregious.

>>95989636
pure contrarianism.

>>95989656
They do pretty well in the fourth succession war but then instantly fumble the war of 39 and it's pretty much all downhill from there.

>>95989649
A Sahel region would be undeniable French influence which they are sorely lacking currently.

>>95989667
Yeah, they've been pretty balanced with other factions. If anything the more recent era stuff they keep getting bodied. Having the Dracs take New Avalon was pretty rough.

>>95987869
>You can change anything you want but provided it is a big enough change to the setting that you wouldn't like it.
But that's the thing, I'd remove starter ClanTech disgusting advantage over the Inner Sphere.
Them retaining LosTech capabilities in wake of Little Nicky is stretching disbelieve enough.
So while it wouldn't do much narratively, it'd still be shuttering almost every Clan design on the Tabletop.

>>95989226
>>95989283
I mean I usually swap the SRM 4 out with an LRM 5 for this reason; I can go jump behind cover while still providing some pressure via Indirect Fire.

>>95989237
>populated exclusively by criminals and the retarded.
>But dat's MERICA!!!

>>95989294
It was also a big hit in HBS Battletech since it got exclusive equipment that buffed its dodging and was one of the best mechs to equip with COIL lasers.

>>95989636
Can't have a fuckin' war without the feddies showin' up.

>>95989674
The Sahel is less French and more African.

Unfortunately, France hasn't really had that sort of region for about a thousand years. I think the closest is the Pyreneans and Basques.

>>95989751
God, the COIL is retarded. BattleTech generally tries to at least make up plausible-sounding technobabble.

>>95989884
The Sahel's current condition is a direct result of colonial and "post"-colonial France and its policies. Half the people doing coups are funded by France and half the people getting couped are funded by France. Sometimes they're paired up for mysterious baguette reasons.

>>95989892

>>95987741
Keep FWL balkanized.

>>95989285
>stripped
Anon these are fine. Just finish them.

>>95985877
Yes. Bracket mechs are fun and good in moderation.

>>95986604
Whichever mechs they think look the coolest

>>95986744
>>95987051
>cool post
>agreeing with everything
>javelin 10n
okay buddy. skill issue.

>>95987741
giant mech sized dinosaurs with cybernetic augments

>>95989294
Somebody tried defending the fucking Bombardier the world is full of contrarians

>>95989888
It was a neat weapon just in the sense that it gave lighter mechs a purpose in a game that nearly requires running assault mechs on higher difficulties. The Assassin for instance for a new lease on life if you found a COIL-L, that thing was nasty.

>>95990155
>in the sense that it gave lighter mechs a purpose in a game that nearly requires running assault mechs on higher difficulties

That sounds like a fundamental flaw in the game rather than something that can be patched by a stupid apocryphal weapon.

They already have a couple timed mission types; just make more. As long as the timer is for bigger bonuses rather than win or lose, it's fine. Also make the bonuses apply to salvage rights, too. You grab max salvage all the time, so an extra 30% of 100k isn't much.

>>95987535
>For things like the basic Crab, the good thing is those are reasonably available to everyone during the 31st century. Same with the Black Night as long as its the -7, and the Highlander -733.
No, they are not. Crabs are a vanishing rarity, Black Knights are barely clinging on and so rare they barely made it into the tro, and Highlanders are almost extinct and only really come back into production after the invasion.

>>95990255
For real.

Rule of thumb: if it was introduced in TRO: 2750, it's at least rare in 3025, and possibly vanishingly impossible to find.

>>95990264
This is one of those setting details that has fluctuated over the years and people get stubborn about. Personally I think it makes sense for a bunch of SLDF regular grade gear to still be floating around in the 31st century just because of the size of those forces.

If someone new to the game shows up with a crab, black night and Highlander in their list and they’re downgraded post SW versions I’ll happily play with them.
They’re not very impressive and if those are the models they have then that’s fine.

>>95988574
>>95987051
JVN-10N is cheap and effective Inferno platform, slayer of Toads

>>95990272
The combat manuals or whatever they're called now do cite a few units that are fielding some very limited SLDF gear.

>>95990251
Evasion decay is what killed light mechs in that game. Does not matter how high your movement modifier number is if it decreases after every failed attack in a game where you are always outnumbered.

People will always argue about how long a mech should "reasonably" stick around in use because it was always kind of stupid that a mech would exist for five hundred years in its stock configuration anyway, and it's equally ridiculous that people would use mechs that just plain fucking suck for hundreds of years till they eventually swapped the parts out.

Anyone should use crabs because they're cool though. A game of battletech that bans crabs just isn't worth playing.

>>95990272
Sarna cites the 3025 Revised to state that by 3028, there were 100 Crabs PERIOD active in the Inner Sphere, and none of them running their original CRB-27 configuration.

ComGuard has 27s squirreled away and gave away 20s to the Combine in 3039 via Rosebud, and like a lot of SLDF tech it also existed in Clan Garrison units, but if you weren't one of these three things you're very lucky to have a 20 and blessed by Blake himself to have two.

>>95990299
You don't Succ wars much do you friend? A lot of commands weren't using the "mechs that just plain fucking suck" by choice; it's what they had left. Not to mention at least half of the 'bad' mechs I see bitched about in the thread aren't actually bad, they just don't match up favorably in the lance on lance grudge match meta people always fuss over.

Anyways, nobody's banning the crab; but if the year is 3025 and you aren't painting it white, its a unicorn and shouldn't probably be more than a 1 or 2 off in your entire company.

>>95990306
>uh actually you can't use the coolest mech in the game because they said there was only five of the dipshit variant left in the universe and they were only painted baby shit green
You can ignore bad lore.

>>95990328
If you're not going to bother reading you shouldn't bother replying either.

>>95990306
>lance on lance grudge match
This is how competitive games are structured, so it's the only viable way to play the game. That's why it gets all th attention.

>>95990061
> okay buddy. skill issue.

“Ehh” doesn’t mean suck.
It’s fast, and if it’s teamed up with a fast hole-puncher, like a good Jenner variant, Flea, or Exterminator it makes a good one-two punch, the heavy-hitter knocks out the armor, and the Javelin can spray it with SRMs for sweet, sweet crit rolls. And since the arms are free, it can follow it up with a kick, or a sissy-slap, maybe even hit a head location.

Or use the arms in objective games to grab the objective and run away.

>>95990281
Or dispense special munitions

“Ehh” just means that it’s… kinda dull? Uninteresting? Like it’s there, it’s doing what it can, but it’s also not a very exciting mech. It’s just there.

>>95987741
The Clans win their Tukkayid trials but the various houses stage a surprise wipeout attack with nuclear weapons. The remainder of the war becomes a race against time to counter the remaining Clan warships while slowing down the spread of news as much as possible, possibly with attempts to fabricate communiques of victory/defeat/stalemate to buy time.

>>95989283
> That's why you can jump away to cool off, and can still be a threat if a light mech hunter follows it, since it's not taking accuracy penalties.
That doesn’t mean the Jenner Isn’t hideously under sinked, that just means you figured out a workaround that works for you.

> You seem like you're scared of ever going past 4 heat. The scale goes up to 30,
And? If you can keep your heat down you don’t suffer penalties that could mean the difference between hitting or missing, getting a +4 TMM instead of a +3, and keeping your heat low makes heat-generating weapons ineffective unless they fire them en masse. I mean just because you mismanage your heat doesn’t make it a tactically good decision. Deliberately overheating your mech past the point that it’s suffering penalties should only be done in desperate situations and when it’s most likely to be successful.

>>95990448
>Deliberately overheating your mech past the point that it’s suffering penalties should only be done in desperate situations and when it’s most likely to be successful.
That is why no one will remember your name.

>>95990351
The only thing I'm not reading is when anyone tells me what cool robots I'm allowed to bring to my games, cause it ain't worth reading.

>>95988565
No it is not even close. Mongoose will easily get into fights with mechs heavier than it and come out on top. The same cannot be said for the Locust
>>95988650
If you include the Galahad then you might as well add the Starslayer :^) I think its more a shitpost to add such unicorns otherwise you may as well add the Behemoth now as well
Also doesn't look like the Striker and Longbow are in the lineup?
>>95989294
It has its uses. In a bug fight its a lot stronger than you'd think.

>>95990392
Really champ. Tell me all about the Battletech competitive scene. We're all eager to hear all about it.

>>95990459
Oh hey Nuln.
You still can't bring a lance of Hunchback C's to a 3062 game.

>>95990699
Or a lance of Awesome C's

>>95990699
>>95990712
I'll bring heroclix if I feel like it.

>>95990723
Heroclix is on Wednesday nights

>>95990699
NTA retard. again you reveal your faggotry.

>>95990723
Prepare to have asscheeks grinded on your face then!

>>95990295
BEX partially solves this by making half of your evasion "sticky" - it can't be removed by being shot at.

>>95990423
I fucking hate how the devs introduced nukes.

If the Capellans didn't use nukes when HALF THEIR COUNTRY was annexed, why would the Lyrans throw a nuclearnhissy-fit over their poorest region?

>>95990423
The IS can beat the Clans in space without nukes.
A massed aerospace assault would be more than enough to score several warship kills. Clan aerospace is frankly a joke with most of their designs having virtually no fuel and their warships being geared mainly to fight other warships rather than swarms of fighters. Barracudas may be nasty but a handful of them are nowhere near enough to dissuade a determined aerospace attack. Whole scene would play out like the end scene of Independence Day.
>>95990791
The use of nukes is the writers just not bothering to read or understand what came before them.

>>95990723
You can bring models but that doesn't mean you'll find anyone that wants to play with them.

sup /btg/

I'm toying with mucking around with a refit of a Devastator. Short version: Replacing Gauss Rifles with LBX10's and the PPC's with Large Lasers. Maybe a couple of shoehorned flamers for shits and giggles. Thoughts?

>>95990883
Seems fine if you're really worried about minimum ranges.

>>95990911
Its more of an 'in character' flavour thing. The pilot likes lasers and autocannons (LBX's especially) and the campaign is taking place where the mech could exist, but high tech weapons (like gauss rifles) are going to be difficult to replace. So... swapping it out with cheaper/lighter weapons to create a medium range death machine was my goal. I'm not looking to powergame, so I'd probably just bump the missing tonnage with heatsinks/armor/whatever.
I figured it'd be okay, but I did want some feedback.

>>95990791
The hilarious thing is that nukes are mostly obsolete anyways, they hardly do anything to mechs.

>>95985840 (OP)
Hey anons I just picked up a box of legendary mechwarriors 3 (the madcat is peak mech design desu) from my flgs, what else do I need to get started after I finish painting my mechs?

>>95990931
Download the Battlemech Manual from the trove and use Megamek or Solaris Skunkwerks to print out record sheets.

>>95987741
The Dragon conquers the Inner Sphere, the rest of the Era is centered around the skirmishes between Suoer Dracs invading the beefed up Periphery states

>>95990973
I kind of like the idea of a Battletech AU but where the whole Inner Sphere is basically feudal Japan. Instead of Great Houses you get Samurai families.

>>95990973
this seems unlikely since the dragon couldn't even deal with its two neighbors teaming up without almost collapsing and needing comstar to bail it out

>>95990882
I have a group dummy, and we all played fun games with whatever mechs we think look cool, cause we're not huge rivetcounting speds trying to nitpick if a mech is allowed a gun or whether they have to wait a hundred years to swap it out.

>>95990730
>>95990771
gay roleplay posting

>>95990853
>The use of nukes is the writers just not bothering to read or understand what came before them.

Nah, it was just Herb doing whatever he needed to to kill WarShips.

>>95990922
>but high tech weapons (like gauss rifles) are going to be difficult to replace

LB-X autocannons are a similar technology level to Gauss Rifles, and PPCs to lasers.

>>95991058
I'm sure if you ask bottom nicely he'll fulfill that for you

>>95987741
add aliens

>>95989534
I'm a chink and I unironically say fuck the capellans.

>>95991393
>I'm a chink
GIVE US BACK OUR MOLDS!

Is Fronc Reaches dead? How is my Space Texas doing?

>>95991408
It never lived.

>>95991399
Fuck off and kill your mother manic.

>>95987729
Eldon Cowgur. Recent official artist that did BT, and other Mecha. He was the lead artist for current edition of Heavy Gear.

>>95991417
>tfw Fronc Reaches isn’t a monarchy so it’ll never get any attention

>>95988468
S-tier all energy-boats?

>>95991501
For 3028 using introtech I don't think you'll find an S-tier design that isn't mainly an energy boat. That said I feel the LRM Awesomes in particular the 8T are a bit underrated.

>>95991408
A. They were never Space Texas.
B. They're in a strange state where one of the devs really likes them, but the dominant pro-Capellan paradigm demands that they join up with the Canopians and Capellans. So they lost some worlds, but gained others, and ate currently getting too ally with the FedSuns in order to provoke the Taurians into invading.

>>95990992
Honestly with just a few changes you could basically change BT from Dark Ages IN SPACE to Warring States IN SPACE, just have an Amaris War that doesn't see the Camerons wiped out entirely but the SLDF and particularly the royal regiments ground down to almost nothing and Kerensky and anyone else of out of the picture through exodus or otherwise. With an ineffectual Cameron ensconced as First Lord (Emperor) but still "respected" by the other lords who instead vie for the title of Protector of The Realm (Shogun). Comstar is a little tricky to have in the same function as they are in canon though, off the top of my head maybe make them something akin to the Ikko Ikki maybe.

>>95990068
Protomechs

>>95988221
6'2" and I'm 175lbs -w-''

you sound like a tiny fat manlet

>>95991591
They’re definitely space Texas. They’re a republic, relatively rural, their army is basically just cowboy marshals, they literally put fucking cowboy hats on their mechs, and they seceded from a monarchy that is basically Space Mexico.

>>95991726
no. 100 ton dinosaur

Medium mechs that have both hands that aren't the 55 ton trio?

>>95991839
Wolverine IIC

Trebuchet

If i told you this was a force of pirates, would you believe me?

>>95991839
Do you mean 55 tonners with both hands or just mediums in general? Cause the former there is a few and the latter is holy christ just look at a goddamn TRO?

>>95991703
Was thinking something along the same lines. Probably could copy a lot of the Empires Aflame stuff and make it work.

>>95991880
No

>>95992378
Why not?

>>95987741
All the Clans participated in the Invasion, and their failure led to the collapse of the Clans as a whole. Clan culture persists, but it's mostly as a loose confederacy of heavily armed rump states who occasionally raid the IS and cause havoc while being too much of a pain in the ass to destroy completely. Clanners' only role in IS politics is occasionally getting manipulated into aiding one side or another in a major war.

>>95992537
Because pirates have a strict list of shitty mechs, they are physically incapable of salvaging good mechs and/or duplicates of ones they already have.

>>95987741
Canopus now led by a man because it's 2025 and sexism is bad. Hilarity ensues.

>>95992620
What about this?

>>95992620
See
>>95988216

>>95991735
You look about 190lbs. Probably because fat isn't as dense as muscle.

>>95990251
>That sounds like a fundamental flaw in the game rather than something that can be patched by a stupid apocryphal weapon.

Its one of the biggest faults in the game amongst other things. The higher difficulties regularly have you fighting damn near a whole battalion and you need to squeeze out all the firepower you can. Installing the bigger drops mod and getting that second lance let's you have much more diverse loadouts but then they add even more enemies.

>They already have a couple timed mission types; just make more
Another fault is your drop zone and orientation is randomized on a pre-made map and they didnt put thought into where some of the places are. Regular thing on a Convoy intercept to get dropped into a canyon that takes 4 turns to get out across a river from where you want to be.

>>95990295
>>95990783
The evasion mechanic is a nice idea but I dont know how to tune it that doesnt make something worse. BEX's is as good as it gets I guess but still rewards bad aim. BTA makes your to hit percentages terrible against lights who then go hide in trees and they give max evasion out for free to units dropping into the middle of a fight so they get a free turn to just shoot up whatever youre defending.

>>95990883
>>95990922
That build mostly already existed in the downgraded Devastator when the Feddies brought it back after either the 4th SW or '39 ai can't remember. It had large lasers/ac10s so dude could just be really fond of that design but still wants to have air conditioning.

>>95990883
That basically exists in the Devastator 1D which came out in 3033. So a Devastator 1.5D with LBX's is fine. You could say it was a FedCom test bed for the new Autocannons are something.

I mostly don’t hate the shimmy art, but the new Stormcrow is legitimately awful, it’s hard to distinguish from a Nova. Just look at that shit, it’s medium omnimech perfection; it does not get any better than this

>>95992686
you look pretty

so take that

>>95993261
Then look how they massacred my boy

>>95993261
>>95993266
I like the new picture, but I agree it's too Novaesque. Also tee hee tiny hands.

>>95993266
Nice Nova anon! :^)
I get what you mean. Its like he tried to do MW4 style and failed miserably.

>>95993261

>>95993284
>>95993332
Theyre for holding your elemental gf's hand

>>95993351
Elemental dommy mommy hand you mean?

rate my jihad-era feddie C3 team

>>95993261
I think the issue is that he made Nova more like Stormcrow, rather than the other way around. The new Stormcrow still has the same basic shape as the old one (backwards-jointed legs, boxy torso with the cockpit sticking out at chest-level, arms attack to the torso above the head level), but the head is less boxy and the hands are not ridiculously tiny.
The new Nova mostly copies the MWO design, which is radically different from the original one. It actually has a pelvis instead of having arms and legs attached to the same sockets, and lacks the long nose of the original Nova. That makes it look a lot more like a Stormcrow with a slightly lower profile and different weapons.

>>95990853
>The use of nukes is the writers just not bothering to read or understand what came before them.
Tale as old as time...

>>95991064
>LB-X autocannons are a similar technology level to Gauss Rifles
>MAGNETS, HOW DO THEY WORK?!?!

>>95991427
Who?

>>95994336
fuck off manic

>>95993332
>>95993351
The tiny hands are from TRO: 3050, and you already see the torso similarity starting in the TCG at least.

>>95991491
Thanks.

>>95993454
Chaste and loving platonic relationship elemental gf

Is this worth the heavy cost? I want a Caesar but it seems like an investment.

>>95994601
You can knock some cost off of it if you can find the Retaliation pack with just the mechs, but it's just 20 bucks off.

>>95994635
Are the rules any good?

>>95994601
I am fairly certain there's a Caesar in the legendary II pack?

>>95994530
>>95993261
This looks fucking retarded.

I expect anyone who unironically likes this to be Chris-chan autismo levels.

>>95994601
Is it even for sale?

>>95994781
Oh shoot that even has a charger and a marauder.
>>95994981
There's like 5 boxes of ot at my lgs, and like 4 of the just-minis box

>>95995027
Lucky shit. My locals suck for Battletech stuff.

>>95994580
>Chaste and loving platonic relationship
What is this Dezgra behavior?!

>>95994601
Eh, it comes with plenty of cardboard counters for things.

>>95994732
I have no idea, I bought the retaliation pack for the mechs.

>>95995044
It's weird, it's a store mostly only known for the DnD/MtG/40k trio, but despite that it still has a pretty good Battletech section. Not as vast as the large town over that has specifically dedicated tabletop store, that even has a full section for the ironwind stuff. But it's still downright impressive for a small town lgs

>>95994905
What do you like better?

>>95994905
To ne fair, the baby hands were so iconic to the design even MWO kept them. And MWO was terrible about keeping true to the design.

Davion girls in progress.

>>95987314
and on the fourth attempt, the lord said let there be unicorns!
Ranked this personally based on how good I think certain variants are as well as how forgiving/easy said mechs are able to be used, so just because something is D tier I don't think its necessarily a bad mech just harder to use

>>95995254
St Fiacre of Breuil?

>>95995300
But of course. Probably not going to make the full 13, but these 5 can fill a Leopard and most of them were standouts.

>>95995258
What's so shit about the Scorpion, Goliath, and King Crab? I like those ones.

>>95995303
kek
nice to see the matches inspiring some custom units

>>95995258
Quickdraw is still way too high

>>95995353
Quad mechs typically stink unfortunately, because some of them (like pic related) are fuckin' rad. But the really limited critical allocation typically cripples them and the benefits of quads just aren't that good, sadly. There's only a handful that are decent. If they got 2 extra critical locations per leg, they would be awesome.

>>95995353
King Crab problem is limited ammo and a large laser + LRM 15 ain't going to cut it at range for an assault. It will ruin someones day if it closes in but the trouble is getting it close in the first place.

Goliath isn't necessarily terrible but its not great either. Its pretty much defenseless in close quarters without resorting to kickytech and its hard to justify when say the Zeus or Stalker is an option. There will be situations it is useful but for its BV you may want to consider other choices which will be easier to use effectively.

Scorpion is about the only one in D tier I think of as hot garbage with introtech. If its running then eventually it'll need to stop using its PPC and it isn't that well protected. The Griffin will really do its job so much better and its competing against designs like the Vindicator for its BV. Hell if the SHD-2K was cheaper in terms of BV and had 5 JJ I'd be swapping them around. The saving grace is its running speed, BV and being a quad the bonus to PSR can come in handy.

>>95995370
QKD-5A is really what pushes the Quickdraw higher in my books. If it wasn't for that variant I'd put it lower. It can generally close quite quickly and trigger some PSRs with decent rolls.

>>95995522
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Sarath

my guy, have you heard the good word, the word of SARATH.

you too can fit 24 50t mechs into a single union!
Omnimechs! with turrets!
>for when you need to ZOIDS and want your damn liger.

>>95995555
>you too can fit 24 50t mechs into a single union!

You can't double-up Mechs in Mech cubicles.

You can pack them as cargo, but then you don't need cubicles at all.

>>95995522
>If they got 2 extra critical locations per leg, they would be awesome.

It's almost as thought they were always intended to be a niche choice that's a little worse in most situations.

>>95995577
It's got small frame quirk. yes you can. it's the biggest, most retarded mech you can do it with, but just like racking two fleas into one cubicle, you can put two saraths.

>>95995577
also, thanks for playing NUH UH FAGET rules lawyer faggotry without actually fucking reading up.
You ignorant fuck.

Go jump down someone else's throat you piece of shit.

>>95995610
NTA but that's retarded.

>>95995610
>It's got small frame quirk. yes you can.
Compact quirk, which the Flea doesn't have but the Locust DOES.

>>95995648
you're still wrong.
24 saraths go in a union.

>Two compact mechs can be loaded into one standard transport bay

>>95995642
yes, it is retarded. hilariously retarded.
>oh look, the mercenaries / leaguers have landed for a raid!
>its a single union?
>24 fucking mechs pile out of it like a fucking clown car
>what in the actual fuck?

>>95995654
>you're still wrong.
No u.
>>95995660
There is no "small frame" quirk.

Remember, the Periphery is full of Legions of Locust in Leopards!

>>95995674
I was quoting the compact mech quirk, which is why it says "compact mech."

>>95995681
Yeah, I was going to paste the entire Compact Mech description...
Oddly, the Sarath lacks the Low/Narrow profile quirk requirement...

>>95995258
>Viper and Striker, and Icarus
FUCK

Also I wouldn't really count the linesman. Doesn't even have a record sheet as far as I'm aware.

Also also, why the hate for the Spider?

>>95995690
yep. as i said. STUPIDLY hilarious.
Bonus points for the FWL hating them, because of course the mariks are retarded, so you can buy them cheap.

>>95995555
That's what the Regulans actually did with it, the local defenders were not ready when the PRS White Woman turned out to be double stuffed with dogmechs.
But then the 1st FWL Guard came over and smashed them, so the Sarath got bad press from an unwinnable war.

>>95995711
>yep. as i said.
No, you claimed I was wrong when you were crowing about a "Small frame" Quirk.

>>95995737
yep. you can always trust mariks to fuck up a great thing.

its such a fucking sweet little mech, fast, mobile agile, turret mounted big guns/s. omnimech.

its damn near fucking perfect.

and the fucking mariks went
>ramirez go win the whole war by yourself!
and when it couldn't
>how dare you ramirez! do all the things you bastard!

>>95995690
>Oddly, the Sarath lacks the Low/Narrow profile quirk requirement...

>cgl has no proof-readers

Shocking

>>95995753
except i am correct. you can stuff 2 saraths into the bay of 1 mech.

you wannabe rules lawyering faggot. go be an asshole elsewhere you
>NO FUN ALLOWED REEEEEEEEEEEE
dickhead.

>>95995759
If a mech has compact, it by necessity must also have narrow/small profile too. so you don't need to list it.

>>95995690
>>95995759
It actually is kind of called out in the lore, the time the Regulans did it was described as unsafe.

>>95995753
Out of the 3+ anons who are telling you that you are wrong, only one of them ever mentioned small frame. This situation could also have been prevented if you had just read the sarna page that was the start of the discussion in the first place.

>>95995785
and everyone knew what I fucking meant. he's just being a cunt for cunt's sake. classic bitch move.

>>95995763
>except i am correct
Except your not dumbass, and I'd say the guy wanting to bring twice as many Medium mechs might be the bigger dickhead as well...

>>95995785
>Out of the 3+ anons who are telling you that you are wrong
Except that's >>95995788
I HAVE read the Sarath's page, that's how I noticed it didn't have Low/Narrow Profile.

Updated list w/ 'corns

>>95995539
>Scorpion is about the only one in D tier I think of as hot garbage with introtech.
Hard disagree. While heat is a problem, the high speed, and nature as a quad mean you can be damned hard to hit if you use terrain right. Treat it like an assault gun that you use to support a push with close range PPC fire. Definitely a glass cannon with that 11 ST armor, but you can make it work.

>>95995802
because it has compact. which means it ALSO has it anyway.

>>95995768
There is absolutely nothing in the rules to imply this is the case.

I'd consider allowing it as house rules, but I'd say "Catalyst don't have editors" is more likely than the writer wanted to be concise so he invoked an until-now unvoiced implication of the rules.

>>95995954
if 10 = 3+x, then x = 7.

to have compact, it must have narrow etc. ergo, it has it.

its basic fucking logic. you don't need to write every fucking thing down.

>>95995830
>which means it ALSO has it anyway
>>95995954
>There is absolutely nothing in the rules to imply this is the case.

>>95995987
Narrow is a requirement of Compact.
It secretly has Narrow/Low Profile or it secretly has Illegal Design (Compact without Narrow/Low Profile). Either way, it has a secret quirk.

>>95995985
>you don't need to write every fucking thing down.
>He says in a game where the rules haven't changed because everything has to match the Stat Sheets

>>95996073
the rules haven't changed to accomodate freaking sub 80 IQ naggers like you.

Australians acting up again?

>>95996137
Maybe, I'm not against a Sarath but even I won't act like the Locust having both Compact and Narrow make it the end all be all.

>>95996137

Its 11:30 am on the east coast of Aus. Most of us are at work, this shitposting bullshit that infests the general at these hours ain't us.
Its about 9:30pm in New York the shitflinging is American.

>>95996197
You forget about NEET bogans, my fellow shitcuntlander. And you only ever need one spoon to stir shit.

>>95996197
You are literally here, now.

>>95996197
>the shitflinging is American
SOUTH American, you mean, surely?

>wannabe thread rules lawyer hall monitor faggot gets BTFO
>changes the discussion to BUT Australians!
I accept your fucking concession you cunt.

>>95996248
>>95996197
>>95996291
More like a bunch of australians, living in their planned city, sitting in their air conditioned building, with reddit open on their computer and 4chan open on their phone pretending to do their jobs.

>>95996322
wait...

do you actually think building a city to an actual sensible, usable design for everyone's benefit is an OWN?

exactly how many levels of commie faggotry are you on?
>da, everytink must be hyper congested hellhole of fuck, comrade! all must suffer!

>Look at this loser! he can get around his city in his car without being stuck in traffic for four hours! what an idiot!

>oh my Xirs! is that a Roundabout?! I am losing my mind!

>what, open parks and reserves!? playgrounds? not an endless see of suburban shoebox housing hell? FREEDOM these evil monsters with a nuke already!

>those evil bastards have hiking trails up into the bush! how dare they!

>>95996348
I think he's suggesting you are from Canberra, which funnily enough was designed by Americans. It's probably one of those euros who thinks just because your country is a hundred years old instead of a thousand years old, you have no culture, that's their favorite thing to harp on about. Notice how the europeon seethes about air conditioning? Something like 150,000 euroids die every year from heat related causes.

Enough trying to shit on 'straya.
We're better than you anyway.

What is your favourite heat neutral mech and why?

>>95996322
That is disturbingly accurate. I'm just here to ask dumb tabletop questions and occasionally post shitty paint photos and battle reportts.

>>95996353
It's called a rotary.

>>95996383
Heat neutrality is for losers. If you aren't running your mech like it has TSM regardless of the existence of TSM, you're doing it wrong.

>>95996383
If you want to be heat neutral, bring a CV.

Do any of the house actually have a preference in their variants or do they just come up with a statblock and assign it lore at random?

>>95996479
A preference, yes.

>>95996291
No, that's because everyone saw your a retard who doesn't even understand the rules of the Game...

>>95996441
But I LIKE Combat Vees...

>>95996479
>Sword wielding LRM Hunchback IIC
...My god... it's beautiful...

>>95996479
There's definite trends, like

>L variants involve flamers, sometimes jumping
>M variants involve lasers, especially LLs
>K variants involve PPCs
>D variants either strip out ammo-using weapons for more armor, or strip armor to add a shitton of weapons
>S variants swap LRMs for SRMs

>>95996479
Are those supposed to be MRM30s?

>>95996057
>It secretly has Narrow/Low Profile or it secretly has Illegal Design (Compact without Narrow/Low Profile) or it secretly has CGL being shitty copy editors

>>95996353
My [US] city actually installed a bunch of roundabouts a couple decades ago. Most people think they're fine, though apparently the fire department hates them.

>>95996572
>though apparently the fire department hates them
Apparently US Fire Engines are a big part of why our cities are still so road dependent...
CLEARLY WE NEED FIREFIGHTING MECHS!

>>95996383
Guillotine and because it hardly gets any recognition.

>>95996572
Roundabouts with a small radius are a nightmare to navigate for long vehicles like a fire engine. It's also more difficult to restrict traffic through them since there's no stoplight they can electronically interact with. So if a jerk in a giant truck decides to cut the fire engine off, there's not much they can do about it. My city has been installing roundabouts over the last few years and the police, fire department, bus drivers, and mail carriers all hate them.

>>95996554
Wait Davions like to strip out ammo?

>>95996613
>Roundabouts with a small radius are a nightmare to navigate for long vehicles like a fire engine.
I thought Mini-roundabouts were designed so long vehicles can just drive OVER them?

>>95996618
Davion variants have two modes. There's
>replace everything with autocannons. everything's better with autocannons!
and
>remove all ammo and replace everything with lasers. NO LASERS, NO SALE!

>>95996633
The super tiny ones, yes. Those basically just have a curb-height thing in the middle. But we also have a couple of small-radius roundabouts that have landscaping and shit in the middle and definitely are not easily navigable by anything longer than a u-haul.

>>95996637
I get why. But a Marauder without an autocannon is just weird.

>>95996643
I think we've only got one like that, and it's at a three way backroads intersection.

The larger one is still kind of on a backroad, but it's also a two lane affair.

>>95995577
That almost any unusual hardware or mech type is supposed to a boondoggle with niche utility is a serious problem with battletech and it's part of why 90% of the games are just four gundams with fifteen guns each chipping away at each other.

>>95996479
There are trends, and those trends change over time. The Dracs become big fans of C3 and MRMs, and the FWL fucking loves Light Gauss Rifles, and also tend to use ER Lasers and both Heavy and Light PPCs.

Speedpaint is a strange beast

>>95996673
Quads aren't a boondoggle with niche utility, they're a slight variant that's slightly better at some things, slightly worse at others, and probably a bit worse overall. This was less the case in 3025 before ES, FF, and DHS, when the first quads were made.

>>95996688
And the Lyrans Gauss Rifles, especially HGR, the FedSuns RACs, and the Capellans Plasma Rifles.

>>95996723
I made a mistake, I bought speed paint and then primed some of my minis black.

>>95996824
>and probably a bit worse overall
Eh, that Piloting bonus would make them better Warmachines in general...

>>95996831
i used brainmatter beige i like the intensity but the color came out really uneven and spotty even with my best efforts, i think speedpaint is not that great as a basecoat or for larger areas. Good thing i just tried it on a srm urbie

>>95995610
>>95995617
nuln fag is back I see

>>95996981
I see you're still a wannabe rules lawyering faggoted homo commie hall monitor.

>>95996824
They are slightly better at the things that are rarely used like Heavy Gauss and slightly worse at the things that universally matter for battlemechs.

If we can't have LAMs we really should have Quad-Biped transforming mechs instead.

>>95991880
>told you this was a force of pirates, would you believe me?
Not even slightly. Pirates don't have Mechs. They use conventional forces because they're cheaper. Go make a force of all tanks and infantry and try again.

>>95997224
>Pirates don't have Mechs.
"Excuse me?"

>>95995821
The reason you outlined is why I put it at D tier. You can have a map where its advantages can be used but equally have a map where it can't.

Also why is the Icarus II C tier over Hatchetman which is F tier? They legit have the same loadout more or less?
>>95995695
>Linesman
There is no Linesman in lineup? If you mean Behemoth then yes there is a record sheet for it now thanks to the ilclan recogniiton guides.
>Also also, why the hate for the Spider?
There is no hate. It is more a design that is best brought on an objective based map what pushes it into far too situational territory. In an objective based map it legit is my first choice. I was tempted to put it into C tier but as it can be a little hard to use I put it slightly down.

>>95995695
>>95997421
This. The Spider is top tier in objective games to the point where I have to subject all my scenarios to "the Spider Check", where if a scenario is trivialize by one side bringing a Spider, that needs fixing.

>>95997553
But lights can only carry one objective, and carrying the objective off the field means they can't come back for a second one.

>>95997566
In my objective rules for Instant Action it's tied to number of hands rather than weight class. But even under the Hinterlands rules, a Spider can still be almost an auto win. Play Objective Raid, jump in to get a +4 TMM, grab an objective, jump away with it. The goal is to just steal more objectives than you lose units, so if you run away with one and don't lose a mech(easy) you win. Spider trivializes this, especially at scale 1.

Hence me subjecting every scenario to the Spider Check. There's ways to make Objective Raid not so easily solved, but Hinterlands didn't do them.

Special rule; picking up an objective item costs 1 turn standing still and possibly with a further penalty to be hit. Alternatively trying to move on the same turn requires a piloting roll and if failed the objective is butterfingered off in a random direction. A mech must once again move into the same hex and then spend one turn picking it up.

>>95997609
Requiring a turn standing still is something going i experimented with early on, and it essentially makes Lights useless for their job grabbing objectives because they don't have the armor to survive a turn with no TMM.

Requiring a PSR to pick it up is a kinda okay idea but I can see it leading to people running 4/2 lights so they consistently pass. Seems kinda gamey.

>>95997615
>makes Lights useless for their job grabbing objectives
An unfortunate consequence to the turn based system. The only thing I can think of is to place valid objective duplicates in a larger area and with a map that blocks enough LOS between these locations. Thus the way to get one objective item without fighting is to find an undefended one and grab it. The rest have to be fought over, as intended.

>>95997633
Writing scenarios around the Spider is fine. The Spider is extremely good in current Instant Action as an objective grabber but doesn't outright trivialize it.

>>95997553
Am legit thinking about redoing a version of the chart where it is based off objective maps. In which case the Spider suddenly becomes S tier.

new thread: >>95997835
>>95997835
>>95997835