An Assassin's Weapon edition

Previous Heresy:
>>95981321

>HH 3.0 Leaks
https://imgur.com/a/C7NLFxm
https://imgur.com/a/ThwkCe3

>New Edition Soon™
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/

>New to The Horus Heresy? Here’s Everything You’ll Need to Get Started
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/30/new-to-the-horus-heresy-heres-everything-youll-need-to-get-started/
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)
https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8
https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS
>30k TACTICA & TIPS
https://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/2.0_Tactics/General_Tactics

>MEGAs are down for the time being, going to wait for things to cooldown with the new edition and leaks before bringing them back up

『Adeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialis』
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/
>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colours
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview
>More lists
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions
>What size magnets do I need?
5x1mm
>Tactics
https://1d6chan.miraheze.orug/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics

>Thread Question:
Predictions for your legion's gambit?

Some sort of backstabbery I'm sure

>tq
we can wololo a line unit off of the table

>>95989062 (OP)
>TQ
>SA
Lie down and die.

>>95989097
Honest Heresy FAGGOTS need not apply

>>95985405
>Please explain how removing generic RoW is in any way evening the playing field
Because all of the-
>You can now take jetbikes as troops
>You can now take predators as troops
>You can now take a lot of X units, but no Y units
RoWs are completely unnecessary now, because you can now do that no matter what
>>95985889
He has eternal warrior and a RG champion is going to be hitting on 4s if he's lucky to still be WS6 base

You can have 1 Apex Detachment (with a MotL) with 3 Vanguards, plus another from that det's Logistical, plus a Logistical from the Main det.
You'll probably need to use your free (SM) Aux detachment on a Heavy Transport detachment, since deepstrike is fucked after all.
I can't believe they really went and said "Fuck you [Undedicates your Transports]"

>>95989114
I feel that in my fragile T3 SA bones bro. I really just want a assault transport more than anything. Running charonites on foot is suffering unless your playing ZM

>>95989141
Good news, every transport can now be charged out of
Bad news, it'll fuck up your charge range so make sure you get real close

>TQ
>Thousand Sons
Make a Willpower Test. If you succeed, the head of your opponent's character explodes. If you Perils, your character's head explodes. If you fail the Willpower Test, no one's head explodes.

But really, though, I could see Force coming into effect somehow, or something Force-adjacent.

>>95989137
Why don't human-portable bolters have stocks anyways?

>>95989137
>You'll probably need to use your free (SM) Aux detachment on a Heavy Transport detachment, since deepstrike is fucked after all.
They didn't mean that space marines get a free extra aux detachment, they meant that each legion gets their own unique aux detachment.

>>95989062 (OP)
For me it is the most quintessential Raven Guard decapitation strike unit: The Saturnine Praetor with axe and hammer.

>>95989136
>He has eternal warrior and a RG champion is going to be hitting on 4s if he's lucky to still be WS6 base
If you're the active player, you can feint and riposte to remove decapitation strike from the available gambits
If you're not and he selects decapitation strike, you can select guard up to very likely fuck up his hit roll.

It's fluffy but to really work probably requires the RG character to have +2WS over their opponent, so that guard up isn't the immediate counter

>>95989204
yeah that RG gambit is definitely just for things like Corax vs some lowly mooks. It's very nightlords, all about bullying the weak.
A unit champion would just pick the 2d6 to go first thing instead of the ravenguard specific one.

>>95989241
Yeah it seems like something made exactly for Corax.

Curious what the White Scars one will be, probably something that busts the Focus roll or something.

>>95989284
White Scars gimmick is retreating and counter-attacking. Their gambit should be the exact opposite of the ravenguard one.

Something like let enemy strike first with -2WS, then you attack afterward and get 1 extra attack.

Then you can choose to do a normal speedy poke or let the enemy take a swing, miss, and then cut em down

>>95989354
That sort of already exists with finishing blow, although no debuff to the enemy.

>>95989062 (OP)
>TQ
I'm totally expecting the DG one to be something like get disadvantage on the focus roll/auto go last in exchange for a FNP or Eternal Warrior or similar.

>>95989362
most of the gambits aren't gonna be all that different from the default generics. Ravenguard is already same type of purpose as the strike-first gambit everyone gets, just tweaked.

I hope World Eaters special is "+1 attack, you can still attack on death but only hit on unmodified 6+ if your character has been reduced to 0 wounds" That would make all World Eaters a threat in a challenge even rarely against a primarch (hitting on 6s with thunderhammer is much better than a weak legion where the primarch just uses strike-first and always one-shots your guys)

>>95989354
>Something like let enemy strike first with -2WS, then you attack afterward and get 1 extra attack.
Interesting idea but it's effectively just a better Guard Up. -2WS is a REALLY strong debuff.

>>95989154
Ironically if TS can still make their characters psykers, a divination champion could fuck up a lot of characters in a challenge

>>95989062 (OP)
>TQ
Iron Warriors. You lose the duel and an orbital bombardment occurs directly on your location.

Your Praetor, Champ whatever was never part of the plan for victory just a useful distraction.

>>95989446
doesn't seem too imba, because striking last is such a big handicap. If you use it on a sergeant vs a praetor he'll still usually paste the sergeant easily before you even get to swing. If you use it on sergeant vs sergeant, much better chance to live, but your sarge is still putting himself in major danger letting a powerfist swing first. And something like primarch vs primarch, it's like the jaghatai vs mortarion combat and even if jaghatai does it and ends up winning, allowing mortarion to get his entire scythe attack set off before jaghatai counterattacks would probably leave jaghatai barely alive even with -2WS.

>>95989465
kino

>>95989153
wait for reals? I have missed that from the leaks!

>>95989465
space skaven already exist, and they killed thousands of iron warriors. I guess maybe IW learned it from them.

>>95989465
Bonus points for Pyro Libby to also explode

>>95989450
Yeah, i am wondering how that would fit in. Though I guess since only Divination has a Gambit, it may just be a case where your character is Divination *and* has access to the Legion-unique Gambit and you just make your choice, or the character isn't a Diviner, it's just the same set of choices anyone else would make.

>>95989472
all charges from transports are disordered charges, but rhino rush is definitely back

>>95989450
Nightlords or Blood Angels heroes with Divination also. They're less likely to get the 2+ To-Hit buff compared to Thousand Sons nerdlords, but they should have better innate killing power to take advantage of the free Duelists Edge +2 focus part.

>>95989141
Are those 3D printed?

>>95989468
>If you use it on sergeant vs sergeant, much better chance to live, but your sarge is still putting himself in major danger letting a powerfist swing first
WS4 vs WS4 it makes the enemy hit you on 6s
>allowing mortarion to get his entire scythe attack set off before jaghatai counterattacks would probably leave jaghatai barely alive even with -2WS.

I don't think any primarch is going to be capable of one rounding another, considering they're all almost certainly going to be only doing 1 damage at a time to each other thanks to Eternal Warrior. Making Morty hit Khan on 5s only makes that more true.

Anyway, considering Khan's sword has Duelist's Edge (2) I bet it'll be something else.

>>95989499
omfg yes, Solar hype restored!

>>95989510
Yes anon, from stationforge.

>>95989494
holy shit, are psykers going to be cool and interesting?

>>95989619
Nope.

>>95989619
Lol no. TS buck broke psykers on the level of flyers breaking players so they'll never be good again.

>>95989062 (OP)
Blackshields gambit?
I dunno just having rules on launch feels like a gambit. Something like mimicking the opponent's stats or buffs would be pretty cool. Like you always match their initiative or WS or attacks.

>>95989619
On paper, they're more interesting than in 2.0, but less than 1.0.

>>95989137
>long magazine
>short barrel
>muzzle device
That's not very compliant.

>>95989758
Blackshield rules next fucking year if we're lucky

I'm stealing legion rules until then. Prolly word bearers or world eaters due to how my guys are

>>95989786
Alpha Legion or Raven Guard always seemed the most appropriate, based on how you think of them.

I was hoping there'd be something waiting in the wings to save my termite drill list, but I think that hope is gone, with RoW just being legion traits.
Bit disappointed, to be honest.

HIGH COMMAND UNITS:
>Praetor
>All named special characters
>Knights Errant
>Delegatus
>Champion (may only select retinue as the apex detachment)
>Herald (may only select veteran squads as the apex detachment)

Has anyone built a Kharon transport?
If so, what issues does it have?

I did my best but I could not get myself drunk enough to purchase the new plastic tarantula gun batteries, even with a discount.
$60 for 2 fucking 60mm turrets. As if the reason nobody ever gave a fuck about them wasn't related to cost.

>>95985035
I've seen Vallejo's own painting videos with them used on Necrons. I don't think it looked bad, but the artist also did a lot of finer highlighting. If there was something like a black wash and a light drybrush of silver over the top, maybe it would look more subdued? Realistically a whole army using these would just be stupid unless it was maybe bugs or something (not quite in the scope of 30k outside of maybe daemons), and infiltrators are the only real use case I can find for something more reasonable in scope.

Was also considering something like this blue/violet. AL's had many colors, this could work well for a squad of specialists too but it's a matter of finding who sells a paint or mixing something (Phthalocyanine Blue/Red?).

>New books are adopting the arcane journal format
Neat. The fluff and artwork will probably suffer drastically, but the arcane journals are a lot of fun for making yourdudes with the converted units and armies of infamy.
>Rites of war don't exist anymore
>It looks like there's never any force org constraints which limit your options, just new detachments to add options
Oh... I guess we won't get something akin to the armies of infamy.

Are these new journals just exemplary battles which GW is charging money for?

>>95989818
>HIGH COMMAND UNITS:
>Champion (may only select retinue as the apex detachment)
Paragon of Battle Champion enjoyers in FUCKING TATTERS

>>95989812
They will just be a unlocked detachment under Fast attack or transport bro, all good. I am waiting on word of how to use them as well.

>>95989812
Anon FFS it's just a transport there's literally not just 4 in the primary but another 4 in a dedicated detachment you have the least possible Justification for dooming

>>95989879
tarantulas and rapiers are such basic simple shapes, definitely just gonna wait for free prints of them if they ever get non-trash rules. Fortunately the previewed rules for gun turrets are that they're entirely pointless (BS2 and cant move)

>>95989517
Reminder a challenge can have infinite rounds of combat in a single turn. In big slog duels like primarch v primarch, hitting first is entirely irrelevant, compared to doing the big damage gambit 10 combat rounds in a row.

>>95989930
YO if Angron still has his 'unlimited challenge works' ability, being able to effectively death sentence as many challengers as possible a turn is gonna be so funny.

>>95989912
>>95989918

Only one deep strike per turn, meaning unless there's something specific for things like this it's 4 turns to get my army on (with a 4 turn game, now).

>>95989949
we will just have to wait a month anon, without the full rules and index's for each army we are arguing/having anxiety about shadows and echos. I actually wouldnt mind 1 unit per turn from 1-4, as anyone who as runs or plays against full deepstrike armies knows they can be feast or famine and it kinda messes with the flow of the game and deployment. I hated playing against decent or angels or day of revelation combined with legal conga lines, it was beyond retarded.

>>95989896
I hope this is not going to end up like necromunda, where some gangs had to wait years for their book.
Also the focus on the drop site massacer is potentialy intersting for people whose legion took part in it. Getting expensive books, with I hope only narrative games legal units, to only find out there is nothing for you in it isn't very fun. Although I guess it is better then having stuff in it for you, but GW producing too few units of the book, so you can't get it for yourself.

>>95989062 (OP)
>>95989088
For AL probably something like:

>Many Heads of the Hydra
>If this gambit is selected, the the opposing player cannot gain Combat Resolution Points from the result of this challenge

Basically his squad aren't shaken by that guy dying since someone else immediately takes his place as leader / he was just pretending to be the leader.

>>95989966
>getting expensive books
>only to find out there is nothing for you in it
Why would you buy the book without first finding out what's in it? Hell, just read the product description at least.

>>95989812
I hope AL get banestrike heavy bolters again

>>95989979
I miss the cool special ammo types, even the OP molecular acid rounds.

I so badly want to put sensor web heavy weapons on my vet squads but they're comically overcosted for what you get, and it's such limited options.

The ammo types in 1.0 spiced it up.

>>95989930
Whoever wins the focus roll and has challenge advantage gets to decide if the challenge keeps going after, so unless you win every single one of those then it's not really a huge worry.

>>95989973
because people on the internet will bullshit you, so you have to read it yourself, and to read it yourself you have to covince your store to order it and then , as a small bonus, to sell it to you and not someone that they like or know better.
I have seen how it goes down with sesonal cards for w40k, and gang books for necromunda. I fear that this is going to look the same.

>>95989930
initiative isn't in any way irrelevant for primarchs. It's used as a finisher not as an opener.
First phase brutal slugfest both people lose say 2 wounds initiative unimportant, second phase brutal slugfest both people lose say 2 wounds initiative unimportant, third phase whoever goes first pretty much gets the kill, pile of victory points and survives and then gets chance to heal back up over remaining turns and wins game.

Duelist Edge 2 is incredibly useful. Before primarch fights were all just who has dmg1 and who has Brutal 2-3, but probably almost everyone gonna have dmg 2-3 now (we've seen it on jaghatai's D2 sword and with the +1 dmg gambit, it's gonna be a lot of D3 going around), if both people are carrying D3-4, then going first is huge.

Also, challenges aren't infinite. The person who strikes first (initiative matters) has Challenge Advantage which gives +1 extra attack and allows them to choose after the round of combat whether the combat continues to turn 2 or ends on turn 1. If your strat is just to be a slow tard character using slow tard stats, the choice is entirely up to the other guy.

Ferrus might charge Jaghatai on Ferrus turn, Jaghatai wins initiative and deals 3 wounds to him, ferrus then deals 4 wounds to jaghatai, jaghatai decides not to continue the challenge since it's his choice and lets his squad lose by 1 point, then freely disengages from the melee because he lost it and then on Jaghatai's turn has the rest of his army vaporize the wounded and overextended Ferrus squad, particularly if they tried to unsuccessfully chase forward. If instead Ferrus had won initiative, Ferrus would have had the chance to keep the challenge rounds going rather than having it end in 1 round.

>>95989801
Well mine are SUPER remorseful istvaan III perpetrators who pretty much ditched their legions during warp jumps and are all essentially a mixed bag of:
1. Hard-core imperial truther puritans
2. Near zealous lectitio aping repentants
3. Fringe mortified contrarians who straddle the razors edge of heresy but def hate how their dads did their brothers and the emperor like that

So they're zealots who wanna mostly all die for what they did AND they're made up of DG, EC, WE, and SoH so that's my reasoning desu

>>95989968
That's basically a defeatist Withdraw (no combat res for anyone) that assumes your guy dies

>no lascutter
So close to perfection.

>>95990108
Why do the legs come in so few parts?

>>95990187
wut?

>>95990104
Oh shoot, you're right. Maybe something to negate the opponent's outside support, to represent the squad having been infiltrated?
I think the most likely is that AL will let the character swap out for another, but that's stupid since even if he's under a false identity, the guy in the challenge is still the guy holding the power sword for example.

>>95990108
nah they are missing quite a lot of the detail of the OGs

>>95990300
Could be. I bet NL will get Something with their Outside Support.

>>95990108
How do these scale with the new marines? The MkIII this guy makes aren't as fat looking as his others. They'd be basically perfect if it weren't for those knees

cool.
so theres no way to field my armoured spearhead army now.
thanks GW.

>>95990556

man you guys are a bunch o' whiney bitches

>>95990575
>change the ruleset when nobody asked them to, to make it more like 40k, a ruleset people hate
>in doing so, invalidate peoples armies
>why are you whining???
gee I dunno

Here's one thing you can do if you're not happy with v3. Just play earlier editions or home-brew.

>>95990580
Most of the changes don't seem much like 40k, and other than needing to add a few more HQ, how are people's armies invalidated?

For all the words on it, does this reaction actually say what it does? It has the trigger, the cost, and the target, but other than the brief overview in bold, it doesn't actually say the effect of the reaction.

>>95990590
>remove instant death and change weapon profiles to have damage, direct from 40k
>its not a stratagem, its a reaction
>its not a detachment, its a rite of war
>rules similar to lethal hits and devastating wounds

Anyone get these? How are they to put together?

>>95989782
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-Hfx1EWKfw

>>95990580
>nobody asked them to
You thought you had a say in when they should release a new edition or what they should change in it or something?

>>95989894
Vallejo Metal Color, like Duraluminum plus an Ink of your choice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1y3XtjJVeVk&t=360s

>>95990617
almost as if they want numerous 40k players to feel familiar with the game and buy more models

>>95990643
Yeah I got Duraluminum for regular use, haven't tried mixing inks yet but experimenting won't hurt.

Also funny to see Poorhammer linked here seeing that Brad hates Space Marines.

>>95990621
lurk more. They ship with a 60mm base now, build instructions were posted here too, no you can't magnetize them.

>>95990108
If you can't put a different gun on a ball socket wrist pls exit all tabletop hobbies.

>>95990607
That reaction is missing the last paragraph, the actual effect. There's only the bold synopsis.

Also people who assume it works on your whole army are morons.

>>95990556
AFAIC all the multipart kits have these proportions, they're literally made from the same digital assets as the others. The "sausagetrim" era was over two years ago.

>>95990728
*AFAIK, fucksake.

>>95990607
so if a DA unit fights a DA unit, both are "Reacting Unit" then. Nice job, GW. Writing overly complicated shit that isn't even thought through.

Also grammar: (The Target Unit is always a Unit in) (that Combat which only includes Models with the DA Trait). So target unit can only be chosen for combats that only contain Dark Angels. Otherwise they should have written The Target Unit must be in that Combat and only include Models with the DA Trait.

>>95989062 (OP)
>Predictions for your legion's gambit?
>Auxilia
My prediction is a gambit that let's the squad autofail morale and run away.

>>95990766
>(The Target Unit is always a Unit in) (that Combat which only includes Models with the DA Trait)
A very janky way of interpreting that sentence by any standard. The 'only includes' is clearly referring to the target unit and not to the combat.

Quick question for all you Dreadheads in the thread: are Castraferrum, Contemptor and Leviathan hand joints and melee weapons cross-compatible?

>>95989062 (OP)
HH novels, definitive tier list so far
S TIER
>False Gods
>Fulgrim
>The Outcast Dead
>The Primarchs
>The Damnation of Pythos
A TIER
>Deathfire
>Fear to Tread
>Flight of the eisenstein
>Legion
>Tales of Heresy
>Scars
>Sons of the Emperor
>Vulkan Lives
B+ Tier
>age of darkness
>a thousand sons
>know no fear
>shadows of treachery
>unremembered empire
B tier
>vengeful spirit
>pharos
>galaxy in flames
>horus rising
>legacies of betrayal
c tier
>angel exterminatus
trash tier
>betrayer
>the first heretic
First post since new edition dropped. currently reading shattered legions, promethean sun and mechanicum, simultaneously. stopped painting my morlock augmentor because new cataphractii look incoming. i dont care about how the edition will be rules wise because i doubt i will get to play but i will buy the mkii marines regardless.

>>95990864
Now post the real one, I could do with a bit of reading during summer holiday.

Btw does the Primaris bits usage taboo extended to bare heads as well, or just helmets?

>>95990839
Contemptor and Castraferrum hands are similar size enough to enable swapping them with some modifications.

>>95990874
As long as the scale of the head matches, nobody will notice or care from where it is.

>>95990621
Put the crew together lastnight, I like the modularity in the kit. Gonna save some bits for a Siege Breaker. Not done the guns yet but they look simple and quick.

>>95990874
im really looking forward to master of mankind. hopefully ADB has one good book in him at least. master of mankind will be a huge milestone for me lol

>>95990884
That's what she said

>>95990830
yeah, I was trying to shitpost a little because I think the game is full of rules that nobody needs. The whole reaction stuff for example. The game worked without it.
Then it became a card game with command points, stratagems, additional phases, reactions. And now the simple challenge mode got bloated over multiple pages, RoW have been replaced with that shit, the FoC is more difficult to track so far (do I have enough Centurions for my dudes which is basically just a better Sarge). And a couple of USR are written in a nested depth that isn't necessary - I always had issues with USR, because I am dumb, and now it's worse.

>>95990864
This might've been enough to probably upset me, but the joke is on you, for I was not taught how to read books during my lifetime.

>>95990864
Ultimate bait

>>95990909
>looking forward to master of mankind.

>cant field a tank army feasibly
>cant field a terminator army feasibly
>dreadnoughts now have a HQ tax
>cant field a jetbike army feasibly
>storm eagle potentially fucked
>termites fucked

the FoC is shit

>>95991006
how can you not field a tank army?

>>95991006
>>cant field a tank army feasibly
You literally can
>>cant field a terminator army feasibly
You literally can
>>dreadnoughts now have a HQ tax
Good
>>cant field a jetbike army feasibly
You literally can
>>storm eagle potentially fucked
Has nothing to do with the foc
>>termites fucked
Has nothing to do with the foc

If you're going to whine at least do it right

>>95991006
>>cant field a tank army feasibly
hm, 4 kinds of techmarine HQs in one Rhino (put in reserves because it is useless) and deploy a couple of tanks

>cant field a terminator army feasibly
Termie Praetor & Termie retinue, Termie Consuls to unlock Termies - you can have like 80 of them with just 4 leaders?

>dreadnoughts now have a HQ tax
Sallies had a Dreadnought HQ. Maybe, just maybe, there will be Consul Dreads, like Chaplain Dreads and 1k Sons Psyker Dreads and such? We don't know yet. Otherwise: 4 Consuls sitting in the Rhino in reserves and field 4 of those new semi titan BS looking things.

>cant field a jetbike army feasibly
add Consul with jetbike

>>95989818
Why tf would a champion be high command

>>95990909
I got bad news anon.

>>95991046
or... bring a standard consol and you can bring double those. Dont even need to have a termie consol to unlock termies etc. then with logistical benefit get even more.

I am so sick of the womp womp doomers in this thread that their min max waac fag armies might not be legal when basically you can field more of the same Force org slot than ever before.

>>95990864
>The Damnation of Pythos

>>95990909
>im really looking forward to master of mankind.
>hopefully ADB has one good book in him at least

>>95991027
>>95991033
>>95991046
>>95991091
pay up for the centurion tax goyim
you only took 1 HQ in 2nd? fuck you
you want to add some dreadnoughts to your tank list? double fuck you

>>95990864
>trash tier
>betrayer
>the first heretic
So true, ABD's writing has to have the whiniest fucking tone ever

>>95991129
please see
>>95990575

>>95991129
"waah waah my army of lots of unfun models that cant be interacted with by a all comers list wont work anymore Waaaah! Waaah! how will i pub stomp in my LGS now?!"

>>95991152
>vehicles in 2nd
>pubstomping
tell me you dont play without telling me you dont play

>>95991165
Dreadnoughts was more my reference mate ;)

Anyway, cease your faggy whinging

>>95991182
>no you cant complain about your legal army in 2nd being unplayable unless you spend money on centurions
glowing brightly there james

>>95991191
If you built and enitre army and dont have 4 marine bodies spare to use as consuls then you are a poorfag. Shut the fuck up and guzzle some more cum you tard

>>95991105
That was the dinosaurs book. I blocked that out. I am urgall depressed now

>>95989062 (OP)
Perturabo is a bitch. If he was less of a bitch his sons wpuld have fared better off. I hope none of you Astarters actually look up to him.

>>95991191
>He's never built random characters because he was bored.

>>95991205
Nah it's only 'guhuh-guhuh I'm alpharius' faggots in /hhg/

>>95991152
Termites are basically rhinos that don't show up for half the game. I don't think it's an overly strong gambit.
I just like it because I find it fun, and I have half my stuff painted as one legion and then Alpha Legion all show up half way through the game, so it feels fluffy.

There might be something in the book that will allow drop pod assault/subterranean assault to still work, we'll see. Feels bad if it goes, having just finished my explorator to help bring it in, though.

>>95989896
>Are these new journals just exemplary battles which GW is charging money for?
Yes, with yet more new units added

>>95989961
>>95989949
Don't worry the Master of Descent, and later Mater of Ascent, will be available for 39.99 and allow multiple drop pod and termite assaults a turn!

Jokes aside the first book is drop pod assaults and Master fo Descent so deepstrike transports are getting their own thing for sure.

>>95990621
>>95990659
You can magnetize them, goonshammer has a guide iirc

>>95991006
>>storm eagle potentially fucked
It might be the best it's been. It's easier to drop off contents and you intercept when it's placed along your battlefield edge behind terrain that now obscures everything.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/lunnztux/faction-focus-traitor-astartes/

>>95991288
>Night Fighting well and truly gone
Fuck off
>Perty says, shoot this guy's balls
Based

>>95991288
hhehehehe

>>95991288
lmao, NL get the ability to scurry away from being assaulted. Too bad they don't explain in more detail how not having night fighting anymore can be used now, except for "tactical status". I get that there is the ability to cause fear and pinning etc, but night fighting prevented long shots unless prey sight was bought etc.

>>95991328
>>95991331
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jNzoX5Of0I&t=18s

>>95991328
god this reaction was so utter garbage in 2e
90% of the time you're getting countercharged after a deepstrike and your table edge is behind the enemy so you'd fall back closer to them

>>95991288
I like the WE stuff, that little teaser for the TS is cute too. Having no form of night fighting seems crazy though

>>95991353

>>95991328
Agreed that the IW Gambit is pretty funny. Hopefully there's a lot more than this though, Primarch games should be the exception, not the norm.

The Ashen Circle blurb made me curious. I've been on the fence about starting WB for 3.0.

If you had 1000 points in a very objective based game, and you were playing DA, what would you bring?

>>95991392
10 tactical squads

>>95991392

>>95991288
Panic just sounds like WAAC ass dressed as fluff.
>Take one wound
>Have to take a moral check at -2, which is just the hand flamer so other flamers will give you an even bigger buff
>Lose an entire 20 man squad

>>95991288
>Ashen Circle now go for the hamstrings
Kino

>>95991440
But you don't lose the entire 20 man squad. They only become Routed, sweeping advance is gone, and units now stop at the table edge instead of running off it immediately.

>>95991454
>But you don't lose the entire 20 man squad
You kind of do though because they are effectively out the game in any meaningful way at that point and even if you rally them, games arevso short it will be over before they van do anything

So in 3.0 it lools like most of your army is going to survive the game because of how nerfed everything and its all about tactical statuses and objectives

>>95991288
>Nothing feels better than proving your superiority by using heavy flamers and your widespread access to the Fear (X) special rule to Panic your enemy, then stride up to them and score an Objective they thought they controlled whilst they cower in your very presence?
Why is this a question? Also, which NL player has ever thought that?

>>95991480
Remind me what Panic does?

>>95991505
That is certainly one way to change the game. A game with less lethality will certainly be different.

>>95991518
When it inflicts a wound you take a leadership test with a negative modifier,which you will likely fail and run away

>>95991480
>get routed in the shooting phase
>absolutely nothing happens because rout moves only happen during the movement phase or when they're forced to fall back in combat for being routed
>only consequence is losing that objective for a turn and the other downsides of routed as all statuses combined
>test to recover at the end of the same turn you got routed on your normal leadership
I'm not seeing it personally. Everyone and the mother will still have ld8 off Sergeants alone let alone ld9 vets and termies so I doubt anyone's going to be running off the board unless they get charge locked in combat

>>95991328
Utterly irrelevant, primarchs (and other primarch-tier individuals) are not gonna give a single shit about the shooting attacks and the majority of them will smash Perty into paste.
If Perty is in a challenge and used a gambit on a sacrificial sergeant the other guy has already won in terms of investment even if Sarge gets shredded in a hail of bolts.
And no-one else is gonna challenge Peter.

>>95991533
I suppose Ashen Circle are now super duper terror troops?

Don't know what Phage does though.

>>95991105
picrel
>>95991142
i dont understand how he can take angron, lorgar, kharn and argel tal and make them all boring. theres tons of short stories in the anthologies i could have directed him to in order to better understand these characters but he has never answered even a single email or letter

>>95991288
>Add to that its thermal diffraction field and you have even lascannon and multi-meltas wounding it on 6s.
So thermal diffraction field subtracts -1 from wound rolls made with laser and melta weapons (and presumably plasma, volkite and flame weapons, too).

I hope Mechanicum get some cool boosts and stuff in 3e.

>>95991558
Phase is permanent but not stacking stat debuffs on a unit after taking an unsaved wound.

>>95991583

>>95991392
A cheap consul with jumppack, attached to an assault squad to harass enemy troops, maybe with an apothecary, one tac squad with rhino to hold some middle ground, a recon squad to hold a rear point and snipe into the mid field, a dreadnought to deal either with some elites or light tanks, maybe a heavy squad with rockets as a cheap versatile tool against tanks, troops, flyers.
That is about 1k, nothing really legion specific except for some hexagrammaton buffs, like Deathwing and Firewing

>>95991584
Arlatax/Domitar dual plastic kit is basically guaranteed, given Ligma.

>>95991328
>Night Fighting isn’t in the Core Mission Pack any longer
Night fighting isn't gone, they're just waiting to sell it back to us in a journal.

>>95991592
Hmm, not volkite? Curious, they used to be always included in heat-based weaponry, unlike las. But I suppose the new crop of rules guys can't be bothered to remember such things.

>>95991600
I meant rule-wise, but model-wise I wonder if we'll start to see Dark Mechanicum trickle in given Ligma?

>>95991605
That seems likely.

>>95991615
Oooh honestly I like that, and I could see the opposite kitbash of a leman russ on skorpius hoverboat also working well. Unfortunately I have no desire to think up new militia armies after seeing the 3 year cycle and knowing it's only a matter of time that they lose the rules roulette and get cut.

>>95991440
That is their special flamer, normal ones will be only -1 I'm sure

>>95991584
Based B A L L fan

>>95991328
So what's the point of this? Flavor is cool, but would Perty not decimate anything a snapshot shooting attack could? What is the practical here?

>>95991700
Free Perty from a challenge so he can smack the unit I think

>>95991700
Marine snapshots are on 5s, so if you didn't take perty with forgebreaker 10 snapshotting lascannons or meltaguns are better than his fists.

>>95991709
He used the gambit, so isn't he already bound up in the challenge? Plus he explicitly can't make any more attacks after this.

>>95991700
Rule of cool. It is fun and thematic, and that is all it needs to be.
Really hope 3.0 will have more of these kind of flavourful, sometimes silly rules and abilities in it, they are so much fun

>>95991716
Oh right snap shots start wrapping back around at BS4, I fucking hate that. Should be BS5. Armistos are already cancer.

>>95989494
So this supercedes the -2 gambit, no? Divination RG Librarians are going to be a menace. Not OP, but tough to play against. If you go defensive to counter decapitation strike, they could just end up divining you.

Don't attack World Eaters with flamer weapons, makes them turn into a bunch of hotheads.

>>95991700
If you have a nearby TacSup squad with meltaguns or Vets with disintegrators you could probably make a primarch think twice about engaging Perty. But in practice it's mostly worthless outside of flavor.

>>95991756

>>95991129
>you only took 1 HQ in 2nd? fuck you
This but unironically
Command units are the lifeblood of a fighting force

>>95991756
This objectively proves that WE become more cool when they become lost to the nails.

>>95991756
So tempted to make a WE army now even if It's just 1k, tho, I don't care for the 30k scheme

>>95991773
And as we all know, staying cool is half the battle!

The other half is extreme violence.

>>95991288
>You only get to have a legion trait if you lose a Ld check
That's unbelievably retarded. What the fuck is wrong with them?

>>95991783
There are late heresy WE paint schemes that start including more red.

>>95991796
You get to ignore all the new leadership stuff in exchange for charging. It seems good

>>95991600
I miss when the plasma blaster actually did work in 1.0

>>95990108
Based tortuga did it again

>>95990556
Tortuga is primaris size

>>95990556
Tortuga did a mkIII redesign so they look less fat now

>>95991797
Yeah, I remeber seeing this a few times

>>95991756
>We introduced all these new tactical statuses to make leadership more important!
>Nevermind, here's a whole army that ignores it with no real drawbacks.

>>95991844
Just don't hit them with flamers and you're fine, the other 3 statues all test on Cool, not Leadership

>>95991756
>>95991796
>only 1" bonus to the set up move
>Most max charge ranges will be 10" in that case
>Must declare a charge if the enemy is 12" away even if you can't make that charge
for why tho?

>>95991857
For getting shot, obviously

>>95991844
>No drawbacks
No games

>>95989995
Yeah acid rounds were really cool, shrapnel ammo for IW too.

>>95991796

>>95990193
normaly I would expect each leg to be separate the front shin, mayb the foot itself come in 2 parts.
I mean larger models often have legs and feet consists of 10+ parts.

Can't wait to see Lions 8 inch setup move.

>>95991844
ESL or barely literate

>>95990590
I have a friend whose army is all dreadnoughts, techmarines and two units of infantry in land raiders. There are two people at my store who have a fully armored spearhead tank armies build, with zero infantry.

My army is pride of the legion, technicaly not invalidated, but I expect my companion terminators, jump pack companions to be removed, as a bonus to nerfing all of my plasma units.

>>95991876
That'd be really impressive considering setup moves cap at 6" and require 14" move + 6 initiative (read: khan, sanguinius, and maybe fulgrim)

>>95991893
My heart weeps for the Dreadnought guy

>>95991756
This is so bad, what a terrible legion rule. It actually punishes me for taking heroes and elite units because they have better leadership and thus wont fail saves.

World Eaters basically start with nothing until your opponent is already killing them, and your reward is getting exactly what you used to have before but worse, which is such a garbage rule for an assault army.

>>95991844
>Your entire army charges a rhino that was parked one inch closer then the line unit on the objective like a bunch of retards
> no drawbacks

Your drawback is your army has literally nothing to build around or inspire anything.

>>95990607
Does this mean the opponents unit fights too, because if yes, then it isn't very good for all the places with a heavy EC and AL population of players.

>>95991893
Why are you crying over terminator/jump pack companions being removed in your imagination?

>>95991091
yeah having 100% only terminator armoured army with 2 characters, is WAAC fagging. Now every squad is going to have to run around with a centurion. But "hey non WAACfags just run non terminator armoured centurions(cheaper) to unlock more terminators".

>>95991584
These would good servo-automata, do you have a link to where that’s posted? I searched for mp miniatures but haven’t found this model exactly yet

>>95991850
NTA but why would remaining calm when being doused with flames not be Cool? In fact, why would anything that's not psychic or using a keyboard not just be Cool? Cool and Leadership overlap way too much.

>>95991911
Doomer brains are immune to reason. It has even been confirmed that minor factions which nobody fucking cares about will get PDF rules, upon release date no less, but I'm sure that legion specific units with or without official models will have been squatted!

>>95991857
Because they are insane.
Still cool. There is a narrow band were being lost to the nails isn't good (essentially when you are 12 to 10 inches away) the rest of the time you either get to ignore a status for free, or ignore a status for free and then get to charge some one with buffs (which you probably want to do as a world eater anyway). Fuck it doesn't even stop you from shooting beforehand, so couldn't you get around the rule anyway by shooting a further away target and then being unable to charge (don't you still have to charge what you shot at?)
It seems thematic I don't get the whining unless it's from WAACfags and frankly News flash: WE were never that competitive anyway

>actually managed to bully someone out of the hobby
well, didn't expect that
should I put in an offer for his blood angels?

>>95991796
I also don't like traits that are too conditional, but it seems. Tactical statuses are going to be spamable and you never run away from combat.

>>95991928
Nvm found it. For anyone curious, madbits3d “cyber orb”

>>95991929
But 4 mental stats is nostalgia for the average Heresy player! Who probably wasn't born yet when they were removed from 40k!

>>95991936
>"Your rules were always bad, so its ok they made them even more shit"
what am absolute moron

>>95991928
https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/game/cyber-orb

>>95991911
Because I still remember what GW did to my Deathwing in w40k and the rules writing has all the finger prints of the w40k rules team writing it.

Can someone leak a damn liber yet? We’re in the WarCom doomspiral again.

>>95991958
HH is done by the specialist rules team, which is separate to the main games rules team. Stop being a fucking schizo.

>>95991868
>>95991890
Sperg Eaters on damage control after screeching melee was dead.

>>95991958
>40k
>James' bad touch PTSD
Yeah checks out

>>95991328
>perturabo-only
Wow, this is entirely useless. Raven Guard get their cheat gambit even without using corax. And perturabo is the one and only IW who should slam harder than any random shooting squad, so replacing his attacks with a couple AP4 plasma gunners 12" away does fuckall ever. It doesn't even allow him to escape the challenge and hammer the regular joes as he was still in a challenge so he gets zero attacks that turn. And it pretty much guarantees he loses the Focus roll-off as he'll have low initiative and not get 2d6 or anything, so opponent can elect to keep the challenge going again and again (and perturabo is only allowed to use the shot gambit at the very start of the challenge, every other round he has to do regular melee)

>No night fighting, but you can always buy a Salamanders army and paint it blue!

>>95991961
I've been saying it for weeks, but I'm fully paralyzed in my hobbying because I don't have a fucking clue what's going to be viable. The WarCom "minor refinement changes this edition" being proven bullshit has fucked with my autism immensely

>>95991981
This is Pertys personal gambit, like how Sigismund gets one. There will be a legion one. It's probably them setting up an obstacle course with razor wire, trenches, and mines and the first one the end gets to decimate themselves.

>>95991994
>Caring this much about what will be viable
>Rather than just building, converting and painting shit you think looks cool
competitive fags need the rope

>>95991983
Pyroclasts and dragon breath flamers will absolutely be Panic(2) and effectively be Fear(1)+Panic(1). You absolutely are blue Salamanders.

>>95991375
>night fighting is gone but at least you have a super special action to "be a bitch"
Called it. I knew GW would do their tradition of assfucking Nightlords and Alpha Legion like 99% of GW's history.

>>95991983
You still got your rotor cannon squad from 2.0 right? Just use that.

>>95991994
I feel you, I need to see the Aux Liber so I know if my prep to blue stuff a bunch of shotguns was in vain.

>>95991998
Okay, that's still disappointing as Perturabo's should involve his Iron Maniple robots beating the fuck out of something or getting to shoot his arm-guns and melee at the same time, but not quite as bad as if the IW army only got this trash.

>>95991893
I just took a look, am I missing something or are these companion squads literally just terminator command squads. They literally don't even have any special wargear or anything. And the jump pack ones aren't even in the legacies document it's literally a unit option. Are you retarded or just a WAACfag.

>>95991939
I know you're lying but obviously you want to post a story so just post it, don't try to bait people into asking you about it

>>95991949
> Ignoring morale checks is bad
Are you literally insane?

>>95991971
Anon I played DA in ALL GW games since the 90s, in all factions that could have them. My first 4 models were 4 chaos space marines veterans painted as Fallen.
But hey if you are right and I am wrong, then it is just a win for me, on top of you being right.
Still my army has 10 cataphract companions, 10 tartaros companions, 15 regular cenobites, 5 falcon wing cenobites, 40 indominatus terminators and 40 regular cataphracts. So I do worry a bit about it. I also have all consuls each in cataphract and tartaros patern armour.

>>95992004
yeah. But then I build 5 nullificators and the units is in legends. And I can't use it anymore. Great. Time and money spent on something I can't use. Oh I painted a Warmonger in cataphract armour to join them too, and he is probably gone too? even better.

>>95992036
"Oh man, you just killed 7 of my ten marines with your flamers, but look, they now get a few buffs so they can still die"

What a fucking loser, I would much rather have a buff that is always on that I can plan around utilizing from the get, rather then hope it kicks in when it would actually be relevant.

>>95991332
I think they have that in 2.0 as well.

>>95992034
>nothing ever happens

Starting to think most doomposting is a psy-op attempt, drawing attention away from the real issues and concerns with made up or just plain wrong shit. Nobody can be this retarded and/or illiterate yet still be capable of playing the game.

>>95992052
We don’t know anything yet. Keep cool

>>95992052
Fucking militia is getting rules at release you imbecile. Units are being moved from legends into the main rules with plastic models. Stop that 40k refugee brain for one fucking second before you make yourself look like a complete idiot again.

>>95992067
The problem with assuming average intelligence is 50% of people are below average.

>>95992053
If you can't see the use of ignoring morale, letting the unit still react, AND gaining a close combat buff so the unit is harder to kill of an objective, you just suck at wargames. If you want point and click 40k is right over here >>>/lgbt/
I can't wait to see the seething when all the falx blades you attached to each of your models are nerfed into the dust as well.

>>95992067
I have seen people insist on shit that a literal chart in a rulebook proves them 100% hard (like there is a BS chart and these idiots insist they hit on an incorrect number).
Never doubt how retarded people are

>>95992067
Yes every single opinion posted in this thread is simultaneously held by everyone who posted in it

>>95992091
because the wierdos at GW have a fetish for making non marine armies. They wast time doing the Imperial Army, various versions of mechanicus. I would get it if they did Custodes, those are just cooler looking marines. But heck no, they need xenos and assasins and demons.

>>95992113
we are all just 2 people. And sometimes I am not sure if we aren't just two personalities of one person

>>95992011
fuck the salamanders

>>95992129
Night Lords using their advanced reaction

>World Eaters get 1 of their 2 legion traits revealed
>It's damn near army-wide Fearless
>In an edition pushing more leadership checks than ever
>crying, bitching pissing, etc
And I thought EC were supposed to be the legion of faggots

>>95992129
>>95991983
>>95992011
Cheer up, now you can combined night lords fear and bonuses vs Tactical status models with salamanders flamers and melta, just like their fluffy fellow brothers relationship :^)

>My favourite Unit so far is the Thousand Sons Saturnine Dreadnought and taking one of these with the Pavoni Prosperine Arcana is great. At the cost of a Reaction Point, you can use the Stoneform Psychic Reaction to give the model +2 Toughness for the remainder of the Shooting sub-phase, making it a mighty Toughness 10. Add to that its thermal diffraction field and you have even lascannon and multi-meltas wounding it on 6s. This is great until Perils of the Warp inevitably removes its last wound and it explodes… but at least it goes out doing what it loves: channeling uncontrollable amounts of Warp energy.
One of the journals will be about the Battle of Prospero and give us special TS Saturnines

>>95992150
it'll be just like the 30 nightlords novels where they swooped in from broad daylight with flamethrowers shouting "welcome to flavortown population YOU"
Because you know flamethrowers leave lots of flayed skin instead of instantly burning it up.

>>95992071
True but that’s the anon’s whole point; we don’t know what will be legends or not (or so bad that bringing it isn’t fun), so it’s hard to know what to work on. It’s not just WAACing off

>>95989786
It will be like 2.0 where blackshields were playable for a whole year before changing edition into something that isn't compatiible with their current book.

>>95991929
If you fail a cool check, you're disoriented by an explosion or you hunker down for a bit to avoid fire before carrying on. If you fail a leadership check, you actively disobey orders and run away.

>>95992144
>Opponent just shoots you or beats you up in combat because you are vanilla marines before you even fail your first check

You dont even play the fucking game.

>>95992023
You can run them as milita grenadiers probably instead

>>95992165
>saturnine specific journal
>2 new units
Bros ngl this system is straight aids

>Flamer scary astartes
I thought they knew no fear wtf so silly, oh well I play DG so.

>>95992187
Would make for great audio recordings to play throughout the night though.

>>95992349
You're completely right, WE are unplayable garbage because they're still affected by some basic rules. They really need:
>immune to all statuses
>auto succeed charge from any distance (+ can't be overwatched)
>auto win any combat
>auto win any game
Maybe then they'll be worth playing

>>95992355
>I thought they knew no fear
Roboute only discovered how to teach that after the Heresy

>>95992355
If your position is getting doused in flames, at some point staying there just becomes suicidal. Even for marines.

>>95992394
All I want is a rule that actually makes them better then vanilla marines at something without needing to hope to fail a specific test retard. +1 attack on the charge was perfectly fine, you could plan and build around that.

Just watch, they will release the late heresy rules, and they will insantly be better then this randomized bullshit. Being forced to play a worse version of Berserk Assault is terrible.

>>95992015
Fuck it. We houserulin' it, guys. A turn or two of Night fighting is okay, unironically.
Though one does need an abstraction on why the usual Astartes Night Vision wouldn't work - at least the Night Lords have the excuse of causing unnatural darkness through bombardment

>>95991328
We need an updated gif that says Grandstand vs The Breaker

Night Fighting never made any sense.
Cthonia is literally a poorly-lit underground hellscape but the SoH aren't good at fighting in the dark.
Imwit is tidally locked iceball but the IF aren't aren't good at fighting in the dark.
But RG are good at fighting in the dark because Deliverance was a jail planet and NL are good at fighting in the dark because Nostramo is Planet Gotham City.

>>95991756
>>95991796
>you need a leadership test for that legion tactica to actually work.
That rule is even worse than the 2.0 Hereticus Stupify rule; at least in EC one, you only needed a shooting attack against your unit. Removing statuses might be powerful, but the leadership test only happens normally in the statues subphase of the end phase or when you are suffering 25% losses in the shooting phase or at the end of the combat phase. (or if someone blasts your unit with a Panic weapon). +1A feels like it's a band-aid for inevitable losses during the charge phase. Can you even fail the leadership test at will?

>>95991288
>hitting opponents with the Routed condition even before you charge them
Is the warcom intern going off a completely different book?
Cuz that's not how that works, unless he means charging them 2 turns after using the flamer on them...

>>95992545
Morale sub phase happens after the shooting phase too retard kun

>>95992467
This one? I have a new one brewing when I'm off work.

>>95992579
Thanks. Nevermind y'all, Anon's got it n.n

>>95992144
>>World Eaters get 1 of their 2 legion traits revealed
What part of either article makes you think this is 1 of 2?
>>In an edition pushing more leadership checks than ever
From where? All the stupid status effects are cool checks, not leadership checks

>>95992599
>What part of either article makes you think this is 1 of 2?
NTA but
>As the course of the Heresy progresses, the Loyalists and Traitors start to diverge in tactics and even troops. The Emperor's Children and World Eaters are the first to see big changes, and they both get two Rites of War each: one representing their forces in the earlier years of the Heresy and another representing their corrupted incarnations as the civil war draws to a close.

>>95992165
Sarurnines are T8?

>>95992626
The dreadnought is T8

>>95992599
Imagine reading.

>>95992634
Oh, got spooked for a second

>>95992619
So it's either always choose the one RoW that is not garbage or choose between 2 RoW that are both garbage?

>>95992647
TS saturnine terminators can become T8 using the pavoni psychic reaction, but only for that shooting phase.

>>95992651
>RoW are goona be bad
If they are balanced that way - sure. My best guess is they want RoWs to affect different units and want you to buy these units to effectively use these Rites. (just like before)

>>95992418
>you gotta step out of napalm or you'll die
>but only if it's nightlords, if it's an ultramarines bathing you in napalm you can stay there 5 more minutes because they're not spoopy
This is legitimately complete bullshit, go fucking jump off a building GW CEO.

>>95992599
>All the stupid status effects are cool checks, not leadership checks
Yeah this seems WE only get angry from failing 25% casualty tests and melee. It's not psuedo fearless, it's conditional fearless with +1A. It's not a bad buff, it's just very narrow. WE want to be in combat sure, they get shot getting there OK, but something bad has to happen first. They have to fail at their jobs to get better at their jobs vs something that's narrow but always active like SW set up bonus. Perhaps WE units have naturally more attacks this edition so failing melee is for more basic squads to be dangerous there and not give up ground. Seems to help Line the most which may help WE score better outside statuses. It's hard to speculate.

>>95992144
>>95992643
Based.
>>95991796
I suppose this finally has reconciled the "Players may choose whether to listed to the Nails or not" vibe of 1.0, and how Exemplary Battles presented a fully corrupted post-chaos Emperor's Children legion. I always thought Stupify's FnP was more appropiate to the World Eaters irdk.

Reminder the original WE trait handed nothing to world eaters; they first had to either kill something or be pummeled enough to cause a morale check
Luckily they quickly changed it so they had at least something...but I feel everyone just chose "Alternative: Rage" instead

>>95992684
The abstraction isn't IGOUGO, they aren't just tanking the fire. Routing is them abandoning the position rather than shooting back, flanking, getting cover, etc. It's running away vs trying to win the fight because in order to run you need survivors and if there's survivors then the fire attack has ended.

>>95992720
It really feels like almost nobody who actually played in 1.0 is still around, most anons sound like they're 40k refugees who never even seen a pre-8th rulebook these days.

>>95992698
FUCK. Yeah WE trait sucks cock since Cool checks don't activate nails. Splitting up leadership into 3 was completely a fuckup by GW. There's no actual difference between Leadership and Cool. GW fags even acknowledge this by the butcher nails setting a berserkers leadership to 10 and cool to 10.

A WE berserker unit wouldn't care in the slightest about casualties or be in any way spooked by enemy flamethrowers. It's literally what the butchers nails are, they remove all self-preservation so a berserker is literally impossible to spook by anything except a supernatural terror-primarch threat.

>>95992775
>or be in any way spooked by enemy flamethrowers
But flamers do cause a leadership check...

>>95992752
Space Marines would simply have the choice to move sideways or forwards if their trench is on fire. There's no universe in which World Eater berserkers would choose to sprint backwards from a flamethrower instead of forwards. You're a retarded faggot.

>>95991756
>Turns out Kharn was just trying to improve morale by setting everyone on fire (this kickstarts the Nails)

>>95992775
Would Nails even activate, since Statuses get applied at the end of the turn and not the end of the phase? Maybe I misread something...

>>95990884
Which you should make clear to the anon means Primaris bits ARE verboten because they're fucking almost twice the size of Heresy heads.

Anyone who shows up to my club with even a fucking *grenade* from a Primarishart mini is taken down into the basement, beaten to death with 2nd edition metal dreadnoughts in socks, then dumped into the fucking sewer.

>>95990930
>t. Senor Mister Doctor Psycuck de Pieplatespammer, Esq

>>95992812
>>95992552

>>95992832
>Primaris bits ARE verboten because they're fucking almost twice the size of Heresy heads.
Hmm

>>95991584
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEby9OkePpg

>>95992853
Awright thanks anon

>>95992832
Primaris have long torsos and long arms IF they are melee arms. Rifle arms are nearly 99% 1:1 with nuscale non Primaris marines. Melee arms are mutant long arms for some reason. Grenades and such are the same size.

>>95991796
>>95992698
>WE want to be in combat
The most retarded part of this rule is that a unit that wants to be in melee will not get anything out of it if the enemy just moves away with the movement reaction, while a HSS on the backfield that takes some casualties and gets pinned or suppressed can just ignore those statuses and suffer no consequences for it, since there's probably nothing in charge range...
Hell, even if you are forced to charge, step-up moves are not mandatory so you are left with a 4.4" average charge, max6". Anything outside of that range makes you fail it. And since you are Coll10, you are probably not going to get any downsides out of it while getting an extra shooting phase in the charge phase...
It feels like you get more out of this trait as a shooting army than a melee one
That's just dumb

>>95991825
Ehhh not quite. Tortuga in a completely neutral stance would be around 39mm, Primaris in the same pose would be about 43mm - the minis squat like they're shitting their armour so they just don't look quite that tall. nu30K and nuCSM are about 36.5mm for reference.

every single reveal convinces me I will not be purchasing a warhammer30k army in the next 3 years.

>>95992720
Just because the first edition rule was so terrible that they had to give us an alternative doesn't mean we cant be mad they gave us dogshit

>>95992905
I think the idea was:
WE blob arrives on Rhino, disembarks as close as possible, suffers 25% losses from volley/ow, gets the buff, charges, suffers losses from the enemy's attacks, and then strikes at i1 (thanks to disordered charge from Rhino), and +1A helps to compensate for losses.

>>95992968
>WE get shot to pieces by overwatch
>WE pass the leadership test
>fail charge because they don't have space wolves +2" charge range
>or alternatively barely squeek out charge, but because they passed leadership test they strike last and don't get +1 attack and just get assraped
It's a trash game design. You have to fail your leadership test to have an army trait.

>>95992684
I'd be scared of Night Lords coming at me with flamers, because I know they're fucking cowards that would only attack unarmed civilians with a significant numerical advantage and I can only see 5 of the cunts so where are the rest hiding!?
Imagine how marines must feel, knowing there's another company of shitlords waiting to spring out and stab them in the back the minute they're almost dead. Seems reasonable to fall back to a more advantageous position, because it'll take them a week to gather sufficient reinforcements to launch another attack.

>>95992923
Why are you even here, nomodels nogames

>>95992968
>suffers 25% losses from volley/ow, gets the buff
I don't think you do Ld checks after overwatch tho

>>95992923
Good. Stay out.

>>95993077
They now call it a morale subphase., It seems like it works in any shooting phase. (Panic text)

>>95992925
Oh by all means get mad at the unfairness of your genetic inheritance
>WE players are method actors :^)

>>95992418
They got void proof armour, should be fine

I know by the SoT militia could be super Chaos pilled but does the Dark Commune box still look a little too goofy for a Militia command squad?

>>95992421
3.0 is going to be poo poo, yikes

>>95993235
They are a bit too much I think.

>>95993125
But volley shots are not a full shooting phase, are they?
If they are, the enemy could return fire and also shoot you with snapshots

>>95993235
I miss the Vraks R&H kits.

>>95993323
I've ordered some from China but also looking for options that don't take a month to arrive

>>95992441
astartes already get night vision in the old rules. They're allowed to see something 24" away in pitch blackness which is hundreds of feet away.

Their simple helmet NV is just too weak to use a sniper rifle to shoot miles away in pitch blackness. Buying specialist NV equipment is needed to hit something a mile away at night.

Getting better at painting but still can't into washes, hopefully the varnish will imprive things but not expecting much.

>>95993345
Nahh. A feral world militia conscript also got 24” of vision.

>>95993360
HH is just written for astartes. Conscripts would have like 4" night vision compared to the space marine getting free 24" night vision, but people playing non-marines would just refuse to play at night.

>>95993369
24" is a combo of regular NV, regular man portable flashlights, any ambient light, etc. Infravisors and the like are more advanced and incorporate thermal/EM so they are much better.

>>95993411
Tfw cheap chinese 2025 equipment has better NV than Astartes

>>95993345
Right. Which means Night Vision ought to represent a stronger obfuscation of light.
It's not really a mere night. The very air is blocking the light

>>95993425
Old lore. Also very subject to interpretation.

>>95993434
>Old lore.
Best lore HH2 is old lore oof

>>95993434
I'm going to subject you to interpolation

>>95993357
Looks like you applied too much wash too liberally, or didn't thin the wash down enough.

>>95993472
Anon rn

>>95993425
that's shitty lore from some british retard writer (I know I used 3 words but I only needed to use 2) who doesn't know how light works. A heavy cloud of thick ash and dust would also ruin vision for night lords and ruin thermal scopes and ruin night-vision scopes.

A thermal scope might still work to a few inches, but would be useless at 30" away.

Modern tanks already deploy the anti-vision smoke clouds which render vision useless and it also negates the ability for infrared light to travel through the clouds as well so enemy tanks can't just shoot the hot object behind the smoke.

>>95991796
while I can appreciate the attempt to bring narrative flare to the game, why oh why can't it just be an extra attack on the charge but they have to charge units within 12", GW have accepted that being forced to charge is a fair trade off for more offense since the fucking frenzy rule in 2nd ed fantasy.

>>95993480
Ptobably, I'll thin it down more next time

>>95993357
acrylic washes are literally trash tier. What all good painters do is instead make a wash of oil paint in mineral spirits, then let it dry and you can rub it off the raised area with a cloth dampened with mineral spirits, leaving the panel lining and texturing effect without ruining all the rest of the paintjob like a GW wash ruins everything always.

>>95993357
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPjUppp-bIw
here's one of many guides on the subject

>>95993501
oil washes neccesitate gloss varnishes which not everyone wants to do and oils can take forever to dry and often people don't remove them well enough. I've seen a ton of people use them and end up with over glossy shiny crap models with a muddy wash on them. An acrylic wash that you then paint over is preferable to that.

>>95993529
use matte varnish on a model once the paint job is done and the shiny problem doesn't exist at all. Nuln oil is for complete morons, it costs 50x more while performing worse.

>>95993501
>>95993518
>>95993529
>>95993541
It is an oil wash.

>>95991796
So how does this work, I thought leadership check was for regrouping and losing combat
Doesn't taking casualties go against cool?

>>95993567
No, casualties also cause Ld checks.
The only way this is going to trigger is from losing 25% of the models in the unit or losing combat
Also if you get shot by flamers. I guess they really fucking hate flames

>>95993579
Skalathrax was actually a big misunderstanding, Kharn only wanted to trigger the butcher's nails with the flamer but Khorne made it AP2 for the lols

>>95993235
The guys with staffs/leader and standard bearer look too chaosy, The guy with the head candelabra looks appropriate, not sure about the sword guys.

Yeah, think I just didn't thin it enough and applied to much, then kind of made a mess of the clean up, also need to get better at applying varnish, too many brush strokes, need to apply more noticiable highlights

>>95993579
I suppose having automatic fearless is not bad, but I am personally more interested in the great crusade/early heresy trait, because I love berserker assault
Heavy armour supporting melee infantry

>>95993769
It's not really fearless. It lets the unit ignore the first failed leadership test and increase their morale stats to 10, but they can still lose another cool or leadership check that comes after.
Not saying it's bad, if anything I think the WE tactica is very narrative.

>>95993794
it would have been narrative if it was Ld+Cool tests. The worst status for a melee unit is Pinning (no movement) which the butchers nails somehow don't work against, "the crack of a spooky sniper rifle" suddenly has an entire 20man berserker unit lie down on the floor instead of running into melee with the sniper rifle unit.

>>95992052
>legends
Begone tourist.

>>95991896
In 1.0 and 2.0 Lion had a 9 inch autochanger. I assume this will be translated into a biig setup move in the new rules.

>>95993873
>autochanger
Fuck it's too hot to think. I meant auto-charge

>>95993357
Oils dry quicker during summer so keep that in mind if it applies to you. All that staining looks to me like you either need to thin your wash a bit more or need to be more aggressive with your wiping. Try applying the wash over a FULLY cured coat of gloss varnish. That should help with the stains and give more protection for the wiping. Matt varnish after and you are set.

>>95993843
Well, the nails will still clear all tactical statuses when they trigger, so if they cause enough casualties to trigger the nails anyway (or if there's some way to manually trigger the nails like an apothecary or a prime trait) it'll make them stand back up immediately

Didn't know Saturnine has tiny Leviathan glacis hidden under the pads, complete with the screw heads and all. Also, I think the thing looks way better without the pads. Also, also, what are the chances that cylinder with a nub on it on the back is going to be used for something? Like mounting a 3rd gun or a banner?

>>95993964

>>95993964
They look better without the pads but the back looks wreid
The back cylinder on the back is just a retarded looking sci-fi gribble

>>95993964
>>95993994
for me personally, they look worse without the pauldrons. What kind of space marine doesn't have pauldrons?

>>95994006
Same. It just isn't real warhammer without comically oversized pauldrons.

>>95994016
trvke

>>95994016
It's not like they don't look like bootlegs already

>>95994016

>>95994006
>What kind of space marine doesn't have pauldrons?
Obviously the goal is to make de-terminatored exo-suits for SA.

>>95993947
there's zero leadership test unless at least 25% of a unit is killed. Even 10 sniper rifles won't kill 5 berserkers mathematically - and a 5man sniper squad will regularly immobilize but not kill 25% of a 10man squad (doesn't average 3 kills) and the world eaters have to fail that test to activate nails (so probably about 2% of the time it saves them from sniper rifles screwing them)

>>95994103
immediately thought of that when I saw it without the pauldrons. It's just a votann with huge shoulderpads added.

>>95994103

>>95994168
We haven't even seen the full rules yet anon...

>>95994243
we've already seen this edition is dead on arrival. This thread are the police officers arriving to a car accident where someone was chopped into three chunks and waiting for the ambulance to come over and declare the victim dead.

>>95994240
Lol nice.
Can you do one of the votann mech suit guys?

>>95994268
the votann terminators or what unit?

>>95994266
more like the police officers wait outside a house and declare everyone is dead inside because they haven't heard noise or seen anything through the window.

>>95994266
You underestimate the power of sycophants. Every single HH youtuber apart from Circle is in full gaslighting mode, as are tourney organizers, goomhammerites and whoever else makes up the GW cocksucking gestapo on the Heresy discord.

>>95994282
the rules have literally been posted, you being deaf blind and mentally retarded is a you issue

>>95994298
Shill somewhere else

>>95994268
prime beef squats incoming

Shilling for a wargame that gonna be good, from the author of Bastionlands and The Doomed

https://www.backerkit.com/call_to_action/8ccdea54-24c2-45bc-aa2a-5c30e633fdc9/landing

>>95994308
blah blah blah this heresy edition is so over bros v3. same song and dance in every wargame new edition

>>95994315
How did I manage to hit the wrong thread fuck me

>>95994315
Buy an ad.

>>95994277
These guys, I remembered them being derpy as fuck but I had forgotten HOW derpy that entire line is.
The Necromunda squats look 100 times better than whatever this is.

>>95994298
shill youtubers can't make a trash unfun game popular. They tried to shill kill team and they tried to shill boarding patrol mode and old world and necromunda and many other things all of which instantly flopped for 99% of the planet. (Having 1 small colony in spain playing killteam doesnt make it relevant elsewhere)

>>95994314
Lol thank you!
Prime tactical egghead armor!

>>95994298
they also shilled so very hard on skaventide AOS4.0 "omg look soooo much stuff omg we're back guys this game isn't dead, hurry limited time best deal ever FOMO" and then a year later the boxes still aren't sold out and even amazon still has it at 215 / 265 (20% discount) because GW overestimated sales yet again.

The 30k starter set is gonna flop hard. Age of Darkness was on shelves forever even when its sales were being artificially carried by 40k players using cataphract terminators as "relic terminator squads" and 40k still had Contemptor Dreadnoughts are meta in deathguard and other armies. Soon as they decided to legend all 30k items so they can't be used in 40k, they killed 30k's sales. This box has terminators that everyone knows will be at most a Legends unit in 40k if anything, so 40k players are not going to bother buying this and it'll flop hard.

>>95994378
>GW keeps items in stock
>THEY'RE JUST SHELFWARMING AND NEVER SOLD WELL AKSHUALLY EVERYTHING SUCKS
>GW can't keep things in stock
>WHY DOES THIS MULTIBILLION DOLLAR COMPANY HAVE SUPPLY ISSUES EVERYTHING SUCKS

>sometimes when you look too long into the abyss, the abyss stares back

>>95994452
pauldrons are too small, I see why the emperor took them behind the shed

The WE trait sucks because its a purely reactive benefit, and relies on the opponent's action to turn on.

If you are doing well, you literally get no benefit.
If you get completely mogged in melee because you have zero buffs, you don't benefit either.

It's just this goldilocks zone where you pray you get shot at and fail a moral test just outside of charge range. But that attached praetor/centurion tax? Now actively makes your legion trait worse for that unit.

Also it's ironically super useful for long range shooty units, since it just makes them immune to moral and has no downsides since you still can't charge a unity if you shot something else.

>>95993964
The design make ZERO sense, how tf can they fit their arms in this ? Arms would be broken

>>95994471
>But that attached praetor/centurion tax? Now actively makes your legion trait worse for that unit.
Using sergeant/hq/praetor leadership is optional
Please present a new 3000 word essay on why this is actually an even bigger debuff

>>95994528
Saturnine is a full on exosuit, the marine's arms and legs aren't physically inside the suit's limbs. It is literally dreadnought armour for marines that haven't been turned into a vegetable.

>>95994378
AoD wasn't a launch box, it was a true starter, intended to be in stores for the lifespan of the edition.

>>95994556
source ?

>>95994596
Look if you refuse to read any of the warcom articles then get upset about shit you don't know anything about I'm not gonna help you. I'm fucking tired of spoon feeding information to seething retards all the time, if you can't be fucked then neither can I.

>>95994430
Now I want to make this.
New Raven Guard praetor for a new edition.
But how should I give him an assassin's thunder hammer...

>>95994327
>Damn, Jimmy.

>>95994652
A good mentality to have

>>95994576
There's no reason to ever shop at a GW store and the non-GW stores got rid of their age of darkness box as soon as they could and never bought another, so it didn't really function as a lifespan box for a normal gamer.

>>95994652
smart idea

>>95994660
I'm finding a rec*st of OP pic, Captain Korvydae, myself.

>>95994394
Overproducing garbage no one wants and underproducing sets that people really want are both called mistakes of logistics and company management. Not sure how you're so stupid you think it's a gotcha somehow.

>>95994537
Anon, this kind of trait is never great.

Your opponent can just focus down units instead of forcing morale checks across a number.
Mechanised assaults neuter yourself.
Playing logically is neutering yourself (although some what fluffy, aylmao).
Playing to intentionally try capitalise on it is highly unreliable at best, and avoidable at worst by a player with a few brain cells.

It's like word bearer traits. Sure having better morale game is useful, but its a lot more useful to have something that helps you win in the first place.

>>95994699
? All the stores in my area had the AOD box for the entire edition - I know because people were buying them up after some of the 3.0 releases.
Why would they not want to stock it?

>>95994758
I've said this for years; a trait that depends on your opponent making (poor) decisions is not a good trait. Your opponent should not control when you get rules for your army.

>>95994699
They can order it or you can buy it online

>>95994699
What’re you talking about? AoD sold amazing and all the stores in my area kept buying them.

I didn't come back until halfway through 2.0, was it this bad at the start of the edition last time?

>>95994528
The design is also contrary to the nu-scale marines which empasize long legs, smaller arms, and smaller heads.

>>95994917
Basically.

>>95994917
No. 2.0 had many departures from 1.0, but was still very much its own thing. Also people assumed it would be another long term edition.

3.0 very noticably is going towards 40k mechanics, and other mainline GW sales strategy stuff, and is extremely clearly geared towards a 3 year slopfest before youy have to rebuy a rulebook, 5 libers, and the 30 extra monthly splat books that have all the dripfed units and rules in them.

>>95994917
HH2 wasn't on a 3 years throw your books into the garbage bin cycle. On a 10 year cycle people can hope maybe a company will try to fix any problems with a system, but on the 3 year system their designers are just changing things completely at random and assuming stupid gullible loser customers will just be replaced in 3 years even if the edition sucks so no reason to bother making good rules now.

>>95991328
>Select a single friendly unit composed of Iron Warriors models
>Rapier Batteries, Tanks, Super heavy tanks have the Iron Warriors Trait
>Champion fights Pert.
>Gets hit in the face with a Cerberus Neutron Laser, Punisher Gatling Cannon, or an entire broadside from a 20man Tactical Squad

>>95994758
>>95994775
You can have both. Just look at the second bit of this pic >>95992720. World Eaters got stuff if blood flowed, theirs of the enemy. But since the 1.0 compendium, they still got something even before that conditional occurred.

It is a pity we had that then, and won't have it now. Panoptica and Circle Heresy houserule memers exist because GW's faults create a niche for them to exisf

>>95994528
Who said they had to have arms? This could be putting the dreadnought into tactical dreadnought by picking Marines who are missing limbs, or removing the limbs so they can use the suits.

>>95994917
Oh yes. Right away people starting whining about HH now being a main game and on the 3 year threadmill, reactions being stratagems, you name it. An edition change really brings out the worst in /hhg/

>>95994986
Funniest of all, the opposing champion doesn't need to be the one who issues the challenge.
Perturabo can challenge a WE Praetor to a duel, and when the guy accepts, his unit just shoots him

>>95995050
it's cause the rule leaked instead of the armies.

if the army lists leaked then we would all be building shitty non-functional lists instead of crying about how the rules are terrible and the game will never recover

>>95995054
Pert with bodyguard closely followed by a squad of destroyers with 7 Moritats with dual disintegrator pistols

>>95995075
>Bailiff, laser destroy that man's balls

>>95994917
Nah, this is worse. Probably because they seem to be making an entirely different game.

>>95995075
Nah even the complete playtester rules being leaked before HH 2.0 didn't stop the whining and doomposting. I swear, some people must get off to the idea of HH being turned into post-8th 40k or something, it's obsessive to the point of psychosis.

>>95995013
saying its not bad because GW might add a new rule that completely replaces this shitty one is uh... still shitty.

>>95994471
thank god nobody ever gets shot up in war

i'd hate to have to face world eaters under the effects of the nails

Anyone got that modified WS chart that gets posted here from time to time?

>>95995233
Ha, I'll just not shoot at you and fight you in melee like you don't want me to.

>>95995306
But anon, if you beat him in melee, he'll fall back!

>>95995233
>focus on wiping out units entirely instead of just forcing morale tests
>untouched units are just vanilla strength
>best units are also the most unlikely to even trigger the nails due to higher leadership

ogey anon, I am sure no one wil use 2 braincells and play to mitigate this trait.

>>95989062 (OP)
>An Assassin's Weapon edition
I can't pass this up

>>95993282
>But volley shots are not a full shooting phase, are they?
It's a normal shooting attack and uses rules for shooting attacks but shots with snapshots.

>>95995385
The key point here is that it's still during the assault phase, so the panic/nails won't trigger until the end of the phase

>>95995385
Why the flying dicks are they replacing charge bonuses with fucking snapshot shooting?

>>95995385
The moral sub-phase is not part of Shooting Attacks. You are doing a shooting attack, not an entire shooting phase

>>95995333
Trips of truth the fukin dirty cowards.

>>95995397

>>95995397
The charge bonuses are in the step-up move. The snapshots are just a completely unnecessary addition

>>95995451
What bonuses? I didn't see anything but I might be blind.

>>95995385
>Only weapons with the Assault trait
So just pistols mostly. Man that kinda sucks honestly, that isn't gonna stop the Rhino Rush.

I'm baking everyone gimme a minute

>>95995472
Bless. Make sure to spell it as Legionis Imperialis.

>>95995486
Anon he's baking not making salsa

>>95995467
Step-up moves have a math equation that depends on you initiative and movement characteristic. When adding the roll 2d6, drop lowest for the charge roll, it's basically the exact same as before in 95% of the cases.
Just more complicated for no fucking reason

>>95995486
Okay I'm gonna spite you now just wait.

>>95995394
>so the panic/nails won't trigger until the end of the phase
I think that refers to weapons that already have status effect rules on them, not to 25% losses. Maybe I'm wrong, though. If Volley won't trigger status effects, does it mean Overwatch will? It seems like nothing prevents it from doing so.
>>95995410
>The moral sub-phase is not part of Shooting Attacks. You are doing a shooting attack, not an entire shooting phase
In the rules, the 11th step of shooting attacks is 'remove casualties.' In the Remove Casualties step, they describe that if an attack causes panic due to casualties, a marker should be placed to indicate that. Once shooting attacks are resolved, any status checks for any player should follow. (p 251)

>>95995499
oh you mean the setup itself.
Yeah that's nothing. Remember the actual charge range is shorter now, so the setup move works out to be more or less the same charge range, but you can avoid overwatch if you're right on top of them (and get fucked if you're disordered).

>>95995499
The minimum possible charge distance went up substantially though. Even if you roll snake eyes you still get a 4" charge with standard marines. I'll take that over the ability to try get that 12" charge that always fails anyway.

>>95994699
Looks like they should have bought some more then, they are going for upwards of $350 on ebay now.

>>95995514
That 4" charge is still a fail if they are 5" away but now you don't get a surge move and instead need to pass a cool check or you get stunned for failing a charge...

>>95995551
Oh yeah that 1" surge move after you rolled a snake eyes in the current edition is is so much better.

>>95995563
>>95995563
>>95995563

>>95995551
Anon the charge move is after setup, your surge move is the setup move you already took

>>95995583
thank you baker

3rd looks really interesting. Not all of the rules are an improvement, and the wording is atrocious (it looks like it was written to prevent rules lawyers, but by people who have no clue what rules lawyering looks like), but some of the ideas are interesting and could be fun to bring into a homebrew with rules from older editions

Would be nice to make a Battle Bible for the new Horus Heresy, or for us to make a TF2 style remake of Horus Heresy 2.0, just cleaning up every part and rebalancing.