1329 - Throw Back

>>95999670 (OP)
>Throw back
>Nobody throws it back
>Infact someone throws something forward
Why is he hack? Too many word.

C U N N Y
U
N
N
Y

>>95999734
Near that I can guess is it's a throwback to Oona very nearly killing the paladins by chance

Can anyone else not follow the reading order in the second panel? I have no idea what Nale's second speech bubble in that panel is replying to.
>Sab: Really not hating how you're looking either.
>Nale: Oh, you like the retro look? I'm sorry dear, I'd love to, but I have been informed that we're pressed for time.
>Sab: Cute and Funny
>And I can fly. Who knows what new midair possibilities will forever be left unexplored?

>>96000012
It's refering to previous pages where they were constantly joking about fucking and how they don't have the time.

>>95999670 (OP)
>cute and funny
WHAT
RICH WHAT

Well rich is cancelled now

So, what do we think of Demonale?

>>95999670 (OP)
>character obtains infernal giga power up
>expects to trounce opposition
He’s going to get one-shot back to oblivion isn’t he? We already had the drawn-out “I’m so powerful” fight between the wizard and lich, surely this is going to be either a one-shot defeat or utter irrelevance

>>96000079
It has to be a coincidence, right

>>96000222
Dashing horny devil, love him. He gives of major I can fix even him vibe.

based thog

>>95999670 (OP)
>aura farming
Rich, you're at least 30 years too old to be using zoomer slang.

>>96000263
If he's a non-native outsider now he's also subject to banishment, which he may or may not remember in time.

Games?

>>96000358
>I can fix even him vibe.
He's already got a girl who was willing to rescue him from the depths of hell, you can't beat that.

>>96000667
he might not've ended up in the depths of hell if he wasn't fucking her

>>95999670 (OP)
>aura farming
>cute and funny
Where's Rich learning all this from?

>>96000679
He would have ended up in hell anyway, he was up to no good. That she was willing to stay with him and even go out of her way to rescue him when he had literally nothing already makes her more loyal than like 99.9% of women, even more so when you consider she's a succubus.

>>96000695
Rich died of IBS and was replaced by Thogposter.

>>96000263
remember that when villains fight villains, it's a toss-up
it would be kino if Nale started quoting Tarquin and using everything he's learnt from him, now that he no longer cares what Tarquin thinks

>>95999670 (OP)
>aura farming
>cute and funny

I had to re-read this to make sure I wasn't having a stroke

>>96000263
I can see it being more like, Nale attacks Xykon and co, they tussle for a bit, end up falling into the real labyrinth by accident, Nale gets aggroed onto the OOTS and Xykon and co. run off to the final gate while they fight.

>>95999670 (OP)
Did the dialogue in the second panel bubbles get mixed up during wordsettling?

>>96001601
It's continuing the banter from the previous two strips

>>96001610
The "I'm sorry dear, I'd love to..." is nonsequitur, unprovoked until the cute and funny remark(though he's the wring gender and age but the brattyness angry emoji) but that remark comes after. It makes more sense if bubble 1, 3, S and then 2.
>>96000000

>>96001656
what's with people having problem with that exchange
>Sabine says she likes the look
>Nale says yeah, it's cool and retro and I know you want me, but I won't fuck you right now, sorry gal
>Sabine says he's being funny
>Nale continues his thought by saying how mid-air sex would surely be amazing, but again, they're pressed for time, isn't that too bad
makes perfect sense to me

>>96001721
>thread usually full of people complaining about words
>thread can't read
>thread can't derive context from text to see narrative throughlines that aren't explicitly stated or parse natural conversation that isn't incredibly literal

makes sense to me

upscale.

downscale

>>96000641
Order of the Stick is a 3.5 DnD homebrew campaign, newcutie.

>>95999670 (OP)
There's no way that was an intentional reference.

>>95999670 (OP)
thog late for pride month

>>96003395
amazing

>>96003395
>snaky one
>sss
marvelous

>>96000012
It's in the order that it's displaying. It's all one extended flirt.

>>96001879
Funny to think that webcomics that look like this have existed, but would still at least be more legible.

>>96001601
>>96001656
He is being playfully rhetorical by answering as though she HAD insinuated they should fool around again before she could have an opportunity to.

>>96000079
>>96000345
What's this about?

>>96004076
Are you not terminally online? "Cunny" is slang for underage vagina and/or loli pornography. As a shibboleth/dogwhistle to be used in other platforms the phrase "Cute and Funny" is substituted as as sort of inverted portmanteau.

It's benign enough that it sometimes comes up by chance by people who don't know about it, but the odds are weirdly slim, especially in this context where it doesn't really flow with Sabine's usual speech cadence.

>>96000079
Oh shit, that didn't even register on the first read.
>>96004076
>>96004108
Does Rich watch Vtubers? Oddly coincidental considering recent events.

>>96000222
I prefer demon mead

>>96000079
>>96000345
>>96004108
>>96004131
I'll admit because I'm also terminally online I had to do a double take when I saw that phrase at a glance but come on she's clearly saying cute aaaand funny like how you'd flirt with someone after a joke. Not referencing lolis, that doesn't even make sense in the context of the page.
Aura farming I have no defense for though.

>>95999670 (OP)
>Cute and funny
Damn bratty Nale!
Needs banishment correction!

>>95999670 (OP)
GOAT LEGS AND GLOWING EYES EROTIC

>>96004924
>>96005586
Who let the third worlders in?

>>96000222
Like a demo version of Nale?

>>95999670 (OP)
>>95999773
the thogs write themselves

Sometimes words speak to Thog

>>96008736
>oh you like loli
>cute and funny

>A shameful hug

good shit

>>96000263
If Rich spent 15 strips establishing a power up that gets one shot I am going to strangle him.

>>96004108
Thanks
>Are you not terminally online?
I am, just in different circles than you

>>96001785
Honestly.

The only thing I can think of is so many of these fucks are so terminally online that they can't read the phrase "cute and funny" as anything other than "cunny". Which I didn't realize was a thing until today, despite being terminally online for goddamn near 25 years.

Of course if you read Sabine's line as randomly saying "cunny" it doesn't make sense in context. But their banter makes perfect sense if you realize that the conversation from the last two pages (where Nale was pressuring Sabine for sex) is being continued here, this time with Nale purposely misconstruing Sabine's compliments as Sabine pressuring him for sex.

>>95999670 (OP)
>the nameless bugbear has an axe
Bad news, little buddy. Thog need weapon.

>>96010079
>nameless bugbear
That's Oona, one of Xykon's foremost allies. I'm pretty sure she's in more strips at this point than Thog.

Huh...

>>96000079
Looks like he didn't get to keep his penis afterall...

>>96010288
No, Oona is with Team Evil in the Final Dungeon™.

>>96001879
This made me actually laugh. Good job.

>>96011413
Can't wait to see if her sacrifice is in vain or not, what with Redcloak's deep sunk cost fallacy.

>>96011735
Redcloak's probably gonna give her the Tsukiko Special. That is killing the bitch the moment she becomes an actual obstacle to his plans.

>>96011413
She'll survive the Redcloak Xykon falling out.
As a ranger she can cast cleric spells and is reasonable enough to work with The Order/Thor to seal the Snarl in exchange for acceptable Goblin advancements.

>>96012199
Okay but the point is that's not her, she's with Team Evil, and if you go back to previous strips you can see that her outfit is different.

>>96012211
Yes you are correct >>96012199 was meant for >>96011735

>>96012216
>Oona becomes the new Supreme Leader of Gobbotopia after Redcloak dies

>>96003395
tunk

>>96012199
There's no way. She's already made entirely clear that her intent is to throw herself in the way of any problems that would make Redcloak have to choose between saving goblins and his own ego. She's not going to choose for him or take up the agency needed to walk one of the paths in his stead; she has already decided in advance that she is dedicated to dealing with anything that could make him decide to sacrifice what's good for the goblins for the sake of being right.

The problem with this is that Redcloak does not see the full picture. He already heard Durkon's attempt to explain it to him, and he was so ready to stay gripped onto his own plans and ideals that he disregarded it entirely. Despite the potential risks if his plan doesn't work out, he turned down a more direct opportunity to remove an existential threat from the world (being that the Snarl threatens all goblins as well).

He basically confirmed that he IS willing to risk everything for the plan, rather than take a long, hard road where goblins still benefit. This is something that Oona is already sure will come up at some point, and she wants to try to prevent him from having to make that choice. This is not lining her up for betrayal, this is her whole motivation. If an obstacle appears that makes it look like Redcloak will have to choose between what's good for the goblins and being right, she will throw herself at that obstacle to try to negate the need for him to choose. She wouldn't have made a whole speech to his face about it if it wasn't going to come up, but the question remains to be seen is whether Redcloak really will make the selfish choice because he's already sacrificed too much to quit now.

>>96014066
>She wouldn't have made a whole speech to his face about it if it wasn't going to come up

Yeah, but Redcloak might get paranoid and take it as her saying that she would kill him if that's the best option for the goblins. He's already convinced himself that the goblins were deliberately targeted by an elaborate divine conspiracy when it was really just indifference at fault. He's one bad day from putting on a tinfoil hat and starting Goblin QAnon.

>>96014124
One could argue that's what already happened and why he's in the priesthood in the first place.

>>96014148
Never say that someone can't get any crazier, you're inviting them to prove you wrong.

>>96014124
No, see, her whole analogy is already built on the fact that Redcloak is of two minds. She has made it clear that her position isn't to make him pick the morally correct choice, it's to prevent him from having to make a choice because she thinks he'll pick the morally incorrect choice. She is, quite possibly, the last thing in line holding up him not having to pick at all.

It's more likely that he'd sacrifice her because she failed to prevent him from choosing than it is that he'd zot her out of some kind of weird paranoia that she'll try to stop him.

>>96016279
My bet still is that Oona is in league with Serini and will betray team Evil at the climax reverse final boss battle.

>>96016279
Yes, but it's not about what she says, it's about what he chooses to hear.

>>95999670 (OP)
I’ll be honest, Nale getting out of Hell is more entertaining than any of the protagonists have been for hundreds and hundreds of strips. In fact I’m struggling to think of a moment in the comic focused on the main party that was MORE entertaining than this.

>>96014066
>whether Redcloak really will make the selfish choice
I can’t believe there are still people questioning this after Redcloak demonstrated, very clearly, to Durkon that he’s in too deep to consider any alternatives.

>>96012199
>Final dungeon level grinds Oona so hard she can close the gate
Fuck. This has been foreshadowed!

>>96017995
Is Xykon supposed to sound like an old man being proud of getting it up?

>>96001879
sensible chuckle.mp5

>>96010378
cunnyboy...

>>96018152
Probably a little, but mostly he's just happy to have an actual challenge in front of him for once.

>>95999777
>using a sonic attack to shatter the ice underneath therm
>by chance
Astonishing.

>>96017481
Yes, that is the obvious way the narrative leans, or at least wants us to see it leaning. That does not mean it has already happened.

>>95999773
>>95999670 (OP)
Oh god am I a speed reader?

I saw aura farming, but not cute and funny on first read.

the funniest thing about the whole plan of "try to convince redcloak" is that not only did it have 0 chance of working, the person they actually should have been trying to convince was Xykon

"the gods are going to blow up the world, with you in it, if they even think you might get close to winning" is an argument that actually works on him

>>96022165
Convincing Xykon is a non-starter, as he's loathe to admit there's problems he can't blast his way through. Also, while it might stop him fucking with the gate it doesn't get the purple quiddity that the gods need to actually solve the problem.

>>96022165
>>96022541
Also, good luck convincing Roy to negotiate with Xykon, what with his Blood Oath and a desire to not give negotiation power to a psychopath who would probably demand daily human sacrifices.

>>96022650
Roy's already clearly laid out to Sereni that he is, in theory, willing to negotiate with Xykon and help him get something he wants if she thinks it'd actually be able to get the best deal for the most people. Both agree it's still probably better that Xykon dies, but saving the world takes priority over the Blood Oath.

>>96008736
>Has daddy issues
>egocentric
>Low self awareness
surprised no one made the joke sooner

>>96022541
>>96022650
Tbqh the best hope for "negotiating"

>>96023174
*for "negotiating" with Xykon is to convince him it'd be funny to betray Redcloak at the last moment after stringing him along for so long, fuck.

>>96023178
Coffee.
They will find some way to allow Xykon to enjoy coffee again.

>>96023981
They're not gonna call back to a side comic as the actual solution to something. Besides, it's not actually about the coffee for Xykon. The coffee is just an example of how stuff that sucks makes you want to think of stuff that's actually good. The loss of his sense of taste is narratively the same as him not being able to be placated by good memories anymore. It's too late. His humanity is literally gone, sacrificed to go forward.

>>96023981
>>96025862
In addition to this, Xykon has basically shifted his position. >>96022541 is right. He is not actually in this for ruling the world to establish a legacy anymore. His primary motivator, the thread that actually connects everything through his life, is hating anything that can tell him what he can or can't do. Every step forward on his path of darkness is in refusing to be held back or pinned down by anyone else. He wants to do what he wants to do, and he wants the power to make everyone else who doesn't want him to do that die.

>>96027314
>Every step forward on his path of darkness is in refusing to be held back or pinned down by anyone else.
I guess his portrayal doesn't rule out this interpretation, but I don't see it at all
in fact, Xykon has had a remarkably free hand for most of the comic and was hardly oppressed or limited by anyone
he doesn't even have a proper nemesis
the recent squabble with quinton is the only thing I can think of and it was just that, an unimportant trifle
apart from that, Xykon already does whatever he wants and he doesn't need to continuously fight for it
so I don't see this narrative theme of a dark progression towards freedom of which you speak
if anything, Start of Darkness was about how people looked down on him, which is not the same thing
and he had little change in the comic proper except perhaps "fuck being clever and strategic"

>>96027987
It's kind of a more subtle theme for him, but it feeds directly into his final motivation. Let's line up the examples of him rejecting limitations imposed on him.

>He's a child, his dog Barky dies
While crying for his dog to come back, he unlocks his sorcerous powers and brings it back to life. This isn't intentional, but it teaches him that death is not a limitation for what he wants.
>He's a teenager, he is confronted about how he uses his abilities
This is done in the style of an X-Men parody, but an authority figure tries to set expectations for how he should develop and use his powers for the betterment of others, even though those people won't respect him. He not only chooses to reject this, but kills the man for good measure with a lightning blast, then makes his corpse into a zombie. This is the moment that shows us that he has decided to reject societal expectations that he thinks are bothersome, violently even.
>He's an adult, the Unholy Master rejects him as an apprentice
He storms off after being rejected, believing that being effective is more important than doing things "the right way." He refuses to remain a subordinate when the way up is no longer available. He won't be controlled or used in ways that won't suit him.

In the middle here, there's the battle with Master Fyron. I don't think it's so useful for discussing this, but it's notable that it shows that he's willing to eschew any sense of fights being anything other than who wins, not how they win. It loads onto the previous scene neatly, and fits into his speech about power being power later on in his life when he's a lich. It's very cool.

>As an elderly man working with Redcloak, he gets trapped by Lirian
Affected by a virus, having his magic inaccessible, and basically doomed, he is offered lichdom as a potential way out. He only pretends momentarily to consider this as a serious choice, and readily accepts it.

>>96030534
(Part 2)
So, from here, Xykon is a lich. He lashes out at Redcloak when he realizes that his lack of a body has cost him some of the simple pleasures of humanity. When Redcloak threatens to break his phylactery, he rebukes him, makes it clear that he can destroy everything Redcloak cares about, and then makes himself the boss of the operation. He outright refuses to allow Redcloak to control or influence him, only holding back on killing him because it adds a sunk cost to becoming a lich if he wastes him before they can even do the plan. To assert his control, he even later baits Redcloak into killing his own brother, then verbally bullies him into place.

Xykon's life has a number of running themes, the freedom to do what he wants by using his powers, including in often violent rejection of the world around him, is prominent. This is part of why he's not just evil, but chaotic evil. It's not just being lolrandumb, it is a rejection of control and a strong sense of self. He feels he should do as he pleases, and has built up the power necessary to make sure that's doable.

>>96027987
it was an unimportant trifle, and Xykon nearly snuffed him just to uphold the principle of "fuck you I do what I want"

>>96030563
This is exact strip I thought about when I've read anon's "Xykon's Do What I Want Position" post.
>Xykon nearly snuffed him
Where?!
Xykon seems quite cheerful throughout the whole thing, from the graffiti to letter-number condition. 5th panel is him completely playing along with one of Redcloak's "you are a baby" jabs.
He absolutely revels in his "I'm a big baby and you will have to deal with it" role.

>>96030839
strip number is 1266

>>96030557
>This is part of why he's not just evil, but chaotic evil. It's not just being lolrandumb, it is a rejection of control and a strong sense of self.
it's hard to tell, because as a villain, everyone naturally tries to oppose him
rejecting authority is already a necessary part of being a villain
for this reason, if one wants to claim that a story focuses on that specifically, then the story has to communicate it strongly rather than being "subtle"

I can kinda see where you're coming from, but for me there's just not enough to call it a deliberate theme
for a theme, Xykon would regularly need to be told "you must do X"
no one really does that except Redcloak

most of your examples are weak, because they can be just as easily used to support other interpretations
the difference being Xykon never shouted about being told what to do, but he did shout about not caring about finesse or his own humanity
therefore, these are stronger themes in his story

>>96030854
> no one really does that except Redcloak
because the people who do that are mostly dead; see: professor x, that orge from way back who tried salary negotiations.

> then the story has to communicate it strongly rather than being "subtle"
Like by having the character explicitly say it?

>>96030917
>Like by having the character explicitly say it?
fair enough, he recently explicitly said it
still feels tacked on for me, this recent exchange turned Xykon into a petulant child, rather than being an evolution of his mindset
it just doesn't hit as hard as "power for power's sake" or his other speeches

>>96030854
We can see this stuff in play on a regular basis though, and we can actually contrast his behavior with the more orderly, Lawful Evil Redcloak. We're told outright that Chaotic Evil is his alignment, and the chaos is why the outsider that Redcloak summons to help search the last dungeon wants Xykon specifically to behave in a more orderly fashion. It's done a bit tongue in cheek, but being the "greatest source of chaos" among those present is not just a bit.

It's also notable that "you MUST" is not really a requirement here. He hates any time that someone wants to influence him based on their rules, authority, or even their societal expectations. He will basically always choose another way, the selfish way, and will often commit acts of evil in retribution for having tried to impose your own ideals over his will and independence.

Present themes do not have to be entirely blunt, nor should they always be. But knowing that he is a being of chaos, this is the thread that lends credence to that. His behavior throughout his life is basically a textbook description of his alignment.

>>96031802
>still feels tacked on for me, this recent exchange turned Xykon into a petulant child, rather than being an evolution of his mindset

"Fuck you, I do what I want and if you say otherwise then I'll murder you end enjoy doing it" is basically CE in a nutshell though

>>96031802
I didn't find it tacked on, if only because we've seen that kind of theme crop up in the comic before with Belkar to give us a better mindset into someone who's Chaotic Evil. Just like Xykon, Belkar hates the idea of being obligated towards society, hates being obligated towards another being, and particularly hates being treated as an inferior by anyone else, hence his murderous rage towards almost every authority figure that looks down on him. The key difference is Belkar's delirious vision of Soon advising him that it's a lot better to trick others into thinking he's on their side rather than continuing to slam his head against the prison bars.

Xykon is what you get when you've got someone who refuses to even pretend to play the game of Society like Belkar does, to the point that he ripped his own living flesh off to do so. He doesn't understand nor care about society, but he does understand power and what it does for him, so that's what his worldview revolves around; Power in as great a concentration as you can muster to remove anyone who can inconvenience you beyond your extremely low bar for tolerance, and style. And in a pinch, style can slide.

>>96037609
the exchange with Soon had great visuals
it wasn't just words for once
makes some of the more recent scenes look criminally dull by comparison

>>96037609
>Soon advising him that it's a lot better to trick others into thinking he's on their side rather than continuing to slam his head against the prison bars
this sort of backfired on Belkar, didn't it
his clever scheme to pretend to be a decent person made him trick himself into becoming a decent person

>Xykon is what you get when you've got someone who refuses to even pretend to play the game of Society like Belkar does, to the point that he ripped his own living flesh off to do so
I agree with your larger point that this is what Xykon is, but I still think his choice to become a lich had nothing to do with that
it was just what he needed at the moment to escape a trap
saying that it was an important gesture in his fight against society is reaching a bit IMO
for me it was more about discarding the last remnants of humanity he had
to become the butch to Redcloak's bitch

>>96037831
>I agree with your larger point that this is what Xykon is, but I still think his choice to become a lich had nothing to do with that

From a regular old narrative viewpoint, you're right. Xykon's decision to become a Lich was done to cement that the man was vile enough to throw away his humanity for the sake of more power. But if we're still going along with themes, I would argue it ties into one that's been low-key there from the start; Morality being tied to mental maturity and the willingness to evolve as a person, and immortality/undeath being its spiritual opposition.

Most of the undead in the comic are portrayed as being mentally and morally locked in from the moment of creation. They'll grow smarter and more patient overtime, but it's nearly impossible to make them change as people without something completely mentally shattering. It's how Durkon was able to defeat his Vampire self, by forcing all of his mental growth onto the vampire until it essentially became Durkon. And it's something that Durkon later comments on with Belkar, how most evil people lock themselves into it because they can't stand the thought of introspection or changing who they are.

In that sense, Xykon's transformation into a lich was a rejection of not just his humanity, but of any attempts to force him to change himself from who he was. As shitty as a choice as it was, he didn't HAVE to become a lich. He could have just given up, stayed in prison, and died peacefully with what few years he had left without his magic. That he jumped immediately to lichdom when the opportunity presented itself is, thematically, as much a reach for power as it is an extension of his refusal to feel guilt for what he's done. He willingly sacrifices his ability to change or grow as a person just so he can continue to live however he wants.

If nothing else, Right-Eye spells it out in black and white back in Start of Darkness to his baby brother in a parallel between his situation and Xykon's.

>>96037831
>his clever scheme to pretend to be a decent person made him trick himself into becoming a decent person
Even death can't stop Soon's manipulations. What a legend.

>>96038244
*Shojo's manipulations
>>96038058
I vaguely remember Xykon saying something about how he ripped off his own flesh before admitting weakness. Was that a thing?

>>96038370
Yep. It was part of an extended monologue from Xykon meant to put Redcloak in his place, basically bragging Redcloak’s “evil for a good cause” is nothing compared to his own

>What I said up there to Dorukan about overwhelming force? That's only part of Colonel Xykon's secret recipe for winning.
>It's not just about raw power, it's also about how far you're willing to debase yourself before feeling bad. And me? I ripped off my own living flesh so that I wouldn't have to admit weakness. You're strictly little league compared to that.
>That right there? That's the difference between bonafide true Evil with a capital "E" and your whiny "evil, but for a good cause," crap. One gets to be the butch, and one gets to be the bitch --
> -- Bitch

>>96018558
>O cunny boy, the plaps, the plaps came caaaaalling

>>96018152
I think it's more like being dragged to a work party and actually having a good time.

mediocre effort.

>>96037609
That's not Soon that's...Hinjo? Hojo? Mojo?
Whacky old dude, he's whacky old dude.

>>96044689
That's Shojo, Hinjo is the current Paladin leader

>>96042981
>from men to men

>>96001879
thanks downs nale

>>95999670 (OP)
HE SAID IT
HE SAID THE THING

>>96060693
he probably doesn't even understand the contextual use and takes the phrase on face value

>>96060708
nah he's probably a lolicon, dude is an online all day shut in.

>>96060708
Rich is the one who made a strip about a newborn raping and impregnating the nurse.
And that's after he acted all apologetic for Tentacle Rape spell.

>>96062979
I think this is supposed to just be a jab at how weird and utterly alien outsiders are. You can't really impose jokes about their age in relation to their behaviors when they're extremely not human-like.

>>96017995
>ugly bastards

>>95999777
That's not even the same hole, though. It's just a random bugbear ice fishing.

Since we're talking about Xykon, I want to say that he's a surprisingly interesting antagonist. Granted, he's not terribly deep, but his very shallowness enhances his character. Usually a villain's wickedness is an Achilles heel that gets them defeated in the end. Two prominent pop culture examples are Sauron losing because it never occurred to him that someone might refuse the ring's power, and Palpatine getting himself killed because he didn't realize Vader still had an emotional attachment to Luke.

Xykon is the exact opposite - he has no humanity whatsoever, but this doesn't blind him to human motives, it makes him an objective, unbiased observer. He's really good at sussing out people's weaknesses and motivations, often with very little to go on. (For example, he figures out that Roy has daddy issues during their fight on the dragon in book 3, and his characterization of Vaarsuvius during their duel is extremely accurate). His character actually reminds me of Buddhist and stoic literature - he cast away his attachment to everything and in return he gained profound insight.

The villains are so much better than the heroes in this comic; it's baffling

>>96073144
Xykon is easily in the top 3 reasons to read oots
it's also interesting how his motivation is simply to be evil and yet somehow he isn't a sunday morning caricature of a villain

>>96073144
The villains only show up when they've got shit to do, the heroes have to be here all the time. It's easier to make someone bombastic and charismatic when someone else has to play the foil and carry the narrative along.

Jesus, is there anything more embarrassing than Rich trying to use modern lingo? He probably thinks he's being self aware and ironic too lol

>>96004076
It's pedophile slang.

>>96001995
It's a comic, and neither comics nor stories are games. A story about a game isn't a game. Even if the comic was a verbatim re-telling of a game Rich played in or ran, it would still be a story and not a game.

>>96004076
It's cunnychad lingo.

>>96000695
You're aware that he's one of the three people that show up to these threads right? He's typically the OP. You're probably him, in fact.

>>96001541
Whatever happens, it won't resolve anything, of that at least we can be certain.

>>96001785
Kinda reminds me of typical gitp forum posts

>>96004131
What recent events?

>>96077253
>You aren't allowed to talk about someone's /tg/ experience on /tg/
Uhhhhh newcutie?

>>96077263
Is Rich in the room with you right now?

>>96077280
Uh retard?
Let's see if I can help you through your brain damage.
A discussion of a game is on topic for /tg/, since /tg/ is about games.
A discussion of a story about a game is not, since a story isn't a game.
So if you talk about a game you played, that's on topic. Because you're talking about a game.
If you talk about a comic, that's off topic. Because you're not talking about a game.
Is that sufficient, or do you need the crayons?

>>96077290
>A discussion of a game is on topic for /tg/, since /tg/ is about games.
alrighty then.

>>96077294
Yes, this thread is off-topic. Glad we're in agreement.

>>96077296
How? It's no different from something like Critical Role. Discussion of a story being told using tabletop.

>>96077306
Right, and discussion of critical role is also off topic. You're so close to getting it lol

>>96077309
>Discussion of Critical Role is also off-topic
It's not tho

And since you agree that this thread is the same thing, then ergo this thread is also not off-topic.

>>96077314
Yes it is.

>>96077315
But it clearly is not. As you say, discussion of games is not off-topic.

>>96077321
Critical Role is a show, not a game. Stop arguing.

>>96022165
How are you going to prevent Xykon deleting you on sight in order to communicate with him? I guess Message or Sending, but he would most likely automatically decline any such spell from someone he doesn't know / doesn't care about, assuming he doesn't have some magical means of preventing all such magic communication targeted at him in the first place.

>>96077324
>S-Stop arguing!
Lol. Or what? You'll cry?

Critical Role is a live broadcast of a game. Therefore any discussion of Critical Role is discussion of that game. A traditional game.

>>96077335
No, it's a discussion of a broadcast of a game, not a discussion of a game, as you admit in your own post. You lose.

>>96077336
>It's a discussion of a broadcast of a game

Anyone telling us about their campaign is also "broadcasting" a game over the medium of text. And that is a staple of the hobby. Therefore discussion of traditional games involves discussion of the "broadcasts" of traditional games.

>Y-You lose!
Newcutie pls

>>96077345
Nope, discussions of broadcasts are discussions of broadcasts, and therefore aren't discussions of games. You lose.

>>96077348
Discussions of broadcasts about traditional games are part of the larger discussion of traditional games. And thus allowed.

>>96077354
No such thing as a larger discussion, they're not games, and thus not allowed.

>>96030557
How would he destroy everything redcloak cares about if redcloak shatters his phylactery and kills him?

>>96077355
Sure there is. But I would rather continue to hammer home what we're focusing on.

If someone broadcast the story of Sir Bearington here, people would discuss the events of that story. This has already happened and been deemed acceptable as discussion of traditional games. Therefore all other discussions of broadcasts about Traditional Games are therefore allowed.

>>96077373
No there isn't, and they're not allowed. Nothing is deemed acceptable. A thing is either a game or it is not. There are no other criteria.

>>96077379
>Someone broadcasts the story of Sir Bearington (or insert the famous /tg/ story of your choice) here about 10 years ago
>People discuss this broadcast
>This is deemed on-topic
>Therefore discussions of /tg/ related broadcasts are allowed and on-topic

>>96077386
Wrong.

>>96077389
Why is it wrong?

What's your reasoning for saying so other than that's how you think it should be?

>>96077398
It's been explained to you repeatedly. I'm sorry you can't understand the difference between a discussion of a game, and a discussion of a broadcast about a game.

>>96077402
>It's been explained to you repeatedly
You seem to be under the mistaken belief that discussion of /tg/ broadcasts is not allowed when sharing broadcasted stories and discussing them is almost as old as the hobby itself and an integral part of any /tg/ discussion.

If I broadcasted a story with my personal experience at a table of DnD 5e and other anons commented on it, that wouldn't suddenly make the discussion off-topic.

>>96037609
Easily one of the weakest strips. The argument for society is obvious : it works. No one living in a society does so because they're a mindless sheep - they do so because the alternative is clearly inferior.

>>96077418
Still not allowed, sorry. It doesn't matter if every single thread in the history of the board is about broadcasts. They are, without exception, off-topic. It's not a matter of opinion. I'm right and you're wrong.

>>96077421
Perhaps the fever dream hallucination of a psycopath doesn't have the greatest grasp on sociological and psychological intricacies.

>>96077425
It's quite obvious that we're meant to agree with the Soon hallucination and think he's very wise, since he is, like every character that monologues in the strip, a stand-in for Rich, who wants us all to think that his middle school philosophy is very clever and witty in its nihilism. Don't pretend to be stupid.

>>96077424
>They are, without exception, off-topic
Off-Topic to what?

Because as we established, if I told a story (or broadcasted as you could call it) about my experience at a DnD table and other anons discussed my experience that's still very much on-topic /tg/ discussion.

Even you admit that they're allowed on /tg/ and have been since its inception.

So off-topic to what. Not the board. Not the hobby. So to what?

>>96077433
Off-topic to the board, as we established. Try to keep up. Talking about your game in on topic. Talking about a broadcast of your game is not. I won't repeat this explanation again, all further questions about this will be referred back to this post.

>>96077431
The Soon hallucination is Beklar's view of what Soon might have said. Not the real Soon.

Soon is also a master manipulator and a liar. He's very capable of telling a retard like Beklar what he might want to hear even if it's not something he personally believes.

>>96077445
Like I said, Soon is standing in for Rich's opinions, like all characters in the comic.

>>96077444
>Off-topic to the board, as we established
You said up here >>96077424
that you didn't care if the only discussion that is allowed on /tg/ is discussion of broadcasts and that you personally would still consider it off-topic.

So therefore it's not about being off-topic to the board that matters to you. So off-topic to what?

>>96077452
>>96077444

>>96077455
>>96077452
>Intellectual coward FLEES
Knew it.

>>96077457
I haven't gone anywhere. Present an argument I haven't addressed, unless you want to concede.

>>96077461
>>96077452
Don't run away like a pussy from the question this time.

If you run away like a pussy again, I'll take that as your concession.

>>96077464
I didn't. I linked you to the answer, which is the same answer you were provided the last nine times you asked.

The answer remains correct, no matter how much you don't like it.

>>96077467
Your so-called answer contradicts your statement here
>>96077424
Since you're intellectually dishonest. And as we've seen, pretty cowardly and very, very eager to run when confronted.

You said here you don't personally care if it's considered on-topic by the board and if the only thing ever allowed hypothetically on the board was only discussion of broadcasts. That means the board is irrelevant for the standard you hold "off-topic" against.

If you would like to concede, please claim that you have already answered this or make a reply that does nothing but link me to a previous post.

>>96077476
No contradiction. Posts about broadcasts are off-topic, like I said, and I haven't said anything different anywhere in the thread. Feel free to concede.

>>96077480
Off-topic to the board?

But that doesn't fit here
>>96077424
Where you admit you don't care what is and isn't considered off-topic to the board. Since discussion of broadcasts is clearly not off-topic and has been allowed in every TRPG discussion space since the hobbies' inception.

So off-topic to what if not the board? If it's allowed on the board and has always been allowed on the board then what is it off-topic to?

If you would like to concede, please claim that you have already answered this or make a reply that does nothing but link me to a previous post. Or claim you haven't contradicted yourself when you very clearly have.

>>96077488
No. I said it doesn't matter if all posts are about broadcasts. They'd still be off-topic. Because broadcasts are off-topic.

You seem to be confused about what "off-topic" means.

"Off-topic" is not determined by what posts actually are on the board. It is determined by the board's stated topic, and only that topic. Since this is /tg/, the topic is traditional games - no matter what is actually on the board.

For example, if every post on /tg/ was about golf, and nothing but golf, every post on /tg/ would be off-topic. Is this simple enough for you?

>>96000641
>>96077253
cry and seethe harder wannabe janny

Concession accepted.

>>96077494
So if I told a story about my experience with 5e, that would be off-topic?

Anything but discussion of rules and the lore of traditional games is off-topic in your eyes? If anyone shares a personal anecdote or an experience illustrating their point, the post and the whole discussion suddenly becomes off-topic?

I only need a yes or no answer.

>>96077506
So, so desperate to run away. This is like the third time you've LEAPED for an out from this anal rape you've been getting.

If you're discussing a game, it's on-topic.
If you're discussing a broadcast about a game, it's off-topic.
If you're discussing a comic about a game, it's off-topic.
You don't tell me which answers are acceptable. I alone have the authority to make that decision.

>>96077516
Ah ah ah
>>96077508
I said yes or no answer weasel boy

Please learn to follow simple instructions.

>>96077517
You will take the answers I deign to grace you with. Know your place.

>>96077522
That's what I thought.

>>96077524
Yep, you lose.

>>96077527
If you had said yes I would have actually respected you some for sticking to a principle (stupid as it is) but sadly you have no spine : (

>>96077530
The only principle that matters here is that of educating you as to the correct usage of the board, which I have done, and quite well.

>>96077534
By running away from a yes or no question
>>96077508
BOO

>>96077537
Nope, didn't run away. You have the answer which I have seen fit to allot to you, and you will accept it happily, as is your station.

>>96077544
Defeated male
LEAVES
SCURRIES
HIDES
QUIVERS
ESCAPES

In fear of the yes or no question that he CANNOT answer because he's AFRAID.

>>96077549
Nope, answered the question.

>>96077556
You realize of course whenever you're being a big faggot in another thread, someone can just link to this one where you ran and cowered from a yes or no question and you'll have to spend all of that thread making a show of not answering it yes?

>>96077560
It is answered. Sorry about your illiteracy.

>>96077562
Sorry that you're a pussy.

>>96077619
Sorry that you're illiterate.

>>96077621
Hey since I know you're still here watching this thread like a hawk, how come you haven't made your usual post in this thread?
>>96065649

It's been on the board two days and I know you're here 16 hours a day. You DO care about board quality and off-topic posts yes?

>>96077627
What are you referring to?

>>96077630
Your usual post decrying it for being off-topic. Where is it? I don't see it.

>>96077633
What usual post? I've never posted in that thread. Are you feeling alright?

>>96077634
I'm just saying you saw fit to post in this thread decrying it as off-topic. So why don't you do the same for that other off-topic thread? That is, if you really care about off-topic posts so much.

>>96077641
Nothing in this post follows from anything else in it. Seriously, get yourself checked out.

>>96077627
>>96077644
Ahhh I should have known you'd try to be a weasel again.

Okay then. Another simple yes or no question. This time hopefully you won't flee.

Is >>96065649 < off-topic? Yes or no?

Anything but a definitive one word yes I will take as "no, but I'm too much of a bitch to say it"

>>96077650
So you admit you don't understand my post from earlier? You're admitting to being illiterate? Since if you were literate, you wouldn't need to ask this question.
Anything but a definitive yes or no is an admission that you're illiterate.

>>96077653
No

>>96077657
Thanks for admitting you don't understand and are illiterate, then.

Ah ah ah. That's not what the question was. It was only "you admit you don't understand my question and you admit to being illiterate?"

I already gave my answer. You didn't say it had to be one you personally agreed with. You're so fucking stupid.

Now answer my question pussy
>>96077650

No more shrinking in fear now. No other outs for you. You played your really pathetic reverse and because you're an idiot, it had a big hole in it.

So "yes" or "no, but I'm afraid to say no"

>>96077669
Nope, you admitted to being illiterate, sorry. No other outs.

>>96077687
*in your opinion

That's not what the question you asked actually asked though.

But you failed to answer mine in ANY way. So that makes me the victor I'm afraid..

You're a coward AND stupid. What a combo.

>>96077699
Nope, not in my opinion, that is the question that was asked. You admit you're illiterate. I win.

>>96077704
Even if I was illiterate, I still could answer a yes or no which you have failed.to do which makes you dumber than an illiterate person. Self own

Would that count as two concessions in one? I think it does.

>>96077706
Two concessions from you, yeah.

>>96077708
Incidentally is discussion of how many concessions you do or do not have off-topic? If so you're guilty of polluting the board with off-topic garbage and if not then that means I was right.

Nope, you still lose. Can't save face, sorry.

>>96077372
shattering the phylactery doesn't kill the lich, the lich has to be destroyed first so his soul is actually in the phylactery

>>96077431
You’re probably thinking too deeply on it yourself. It’s basic bitch advice, “If you can’t play nice with others, they’ll stop tolerating you” combined with “fake it till you make it”. Like, it’s why you tell kids to share their toys. It’s only wise insofar that it’s a violent jerk finally realizing why he keeps being screwed over by his own obstinance and blatant disrespect to the few people who put up with his crap. Aka it’s just That Guy growing a clue. A lot of stories have this moment for their jackass characters.

>>96078436
No, I'm just correct. Every character is a stand-in for the author, without exception.

>>96080847
Even the cat?

>>96080936
Yes, obviously.

>>96080946
So what insights does the cat bring into understanding Rich’s politics and worldview then?

>>96008736
>Hey, what meme?
>none.
>Oh,.
I can't believe that got me

>>96077421
The argument isn't meant to work on you, it's meant to work on Belkar, retard.

>>96081435
Dumbass.

>>96073144
xykon represents the viewer, as his attitude towards magic and power is very similar to a minimaxing gamer's. He's relatable.

>>96077287
Yes I am.
No one will believe you.
I stole the last beer out of your fridge last week.

>>96073144
It's notable that Xykon, being a simple but effective villain, still has the cliche unmakings of other villains. This is to say, there is soft power and hard power, and Xykon is a very hard power villain. "Power is power," "I'd rather have a sledgehammer," etc. Exercised hard power, when combined with ambition, paints a target on your back. Your actions becomes obvious, and you create stakes for other people.

Something as petty as killing a man and stealing a crown because he thought it would look cool got him a family line acting as his nemeses (even if he mostly doesn't notice them). He helps the goblins, and they take Azure City, which has Paladins helping the heroes now. He's interested in tapping into a power that divinity does not want him or anyone else to use. He is boned if he does and boned if he doesn't, because either the gods swat him like the mosquito he is in the grander scale, or he gets cast down by a group of adventurers who were only tracking him in the first place because he's so petty (and are now fighting for a higher purpose).

>>96077332
Xykon isn't just gonna delete you on sight. But probably as a punchline to his second or maybe first sentence. So you can probably get one or two lines in.

But I don't think there's any wax lyrical speechcraft that could convince him to "don't do bad thing". That's the core of his character. The best way would probably be to make bad thing whooly uncool. Like "hey Xe did you catch the latest Evil Wizard Monthly? They put "Keeping a Gate of Uncreation" as their 3 in Top Ways to make your Evil Wizard Tower stand a rampart up above the re-" he's probably killing you next still, but it might make the gate plan too mainstream for him.

>>96080967
tuna good

>>96092663
If you could actually talk to him without being murked, wouldn't something like
>I think it's really cool you'd risk dying when the gods blow up the world as soon as they think you're winning just for the chance of helping the goblins get a better lot.
Work better?

>>96077332
Xykon wouldn't normally reject Sending IMO
but he and Redcloak are currently under the effects of cloister, the epic level spell that prevents all means of magical tracking, and will be for some weeks

>>96000012
You read things in english from left, to right! Hope this helps!

>>96077290
Complaining about people discussing things other than games is not a game, therefore you should report yourself.

>>96022165
Redcloak is the guy they need to convince, though, he's the only person around with a connection to the Dark One. Xykon might be more willing to ditch a sinking ship, but he's got sweet fuck-all to offer when it comes to permanently sealing the Snarl.

>>96080967

>>95999670 (OP)
lol, aura farming. you just drew another bland stick figure. there's nothing impressive, engaging, or even interesting about this.

if you have to tell your readers something in your story has a particular property, it does not have that property.

>>96077516
>dduuuurgh, TECHNICALLY your discussion about a game is actually you responding to the photons your computer broadcast to your eyeballs formulating word-shapes that convert in your brain about a game, so it's off-topic!

>People are agitated about the aura farming joke
Guys. He's literally got an aura of evil power that he just collected. This is probably the most appropriate way he could have made a joke with that phrase, and it went right over your heads because you got mad at the presence of zoomer slang.

>>96090563
The cliches are a feaure of the beast as he's your lovable saturday morning evil skeleton man villain that you have to be clever to write in a compelling way because he's so basic.

We actually survived long enough to get a new strip for once.

>>96113195
Demonale is being way too cool. This definitely isn't going to last.

>>96113195
>for once.
It happens quite a lot recently...

>>96113195
what's the point of having the massive self-regenerating "gauntlet" that took ridiculous amount of resources and setup, if any half-competent party is just going to skip it
admittedly it did work on Xykon, so I can't argue with success, but it seems like that was a lucky break

>>96113438
It seems to have worked pretty well until Xykon outsourced tracking progress to Modrons

>>96113438
i dont really get this cause it being found by Haley is one thing because she is a high level rogue but Sabine finding it is bizarre cause she has a shit search skill

>>96113438
>>96113573
The audience already knows how it works so it is essentially useless. Christ, imagine how much this board would complain if we had to put up with 200 pages of Nale trying to work out the same puzzle we've seen two other parties work out already.

>>96113458
it "worked" by merely slowing the invaders, rather than stopping them, and in fact the trap is constructed in such a way that success is inevitable
oh, and traversing it has the side effect of making your opponent stronger and better equipped
you can truly see the formidable intellect of a barbarian at work here

>>96113643
>200 pages of Nale trying to work out the same puzzle we've seen two other parties work out already
there are many narrative ways of dealing with that
you can fast-forward
you can say it was ubernale's unique demon senses that helped him, not Sabine's pedestrian insight
you can have them notice something that the previous groups did
you can say Nale had special info from the fiends; it wouldn't be strange, since this comic even had to invent a reason why it *didn't* happen

but no, they breeze through it without special help
even if they didn't have Nale's super-boost, they would have noticed the trap anyway and wouldn't have done what Xykon did

>>96113672
>in fact the trap is constructed in such a way that success is inevitable
How does the high-level trap that teleports you to a different dungeon not containing the gate make success inevitable

>you can truly see the formidable intellect of a barbarian at work here
Kraagor got snarl'd, The entire complex was designed by Serini, a midget thief.

>>96113770
>How does the high-level trap that teleports you to a different dungeon not containing the gate make success inevitable
it opens the true door for you once you defeat every tunnel
it was a plot point like 4 years ago

>>96113819
>2023 was fifteen years ago

>>96113855

>>96113867
i can't believe the traps being outdated shit got addressed a decade ago

>>96113770
>Kraagor got snarl'd, The entire complex was designed by Serini, a midget thief.
wasn't the gauntlet Kraagor's and the true dungeon Serini's?

>>96113998
The dungeon is a gauntlet as homage to Kraagor

>>96113438
You can't actually skip the gauntlet though. You need all of the marks, which means you need to have passed into each previous zone before you can go into the final room area. Serini is just able to skip it for the party because she literally built the place, so she basically has the keys already.

>>96113335
Well done.

power of love upscale.

does strike me as weird you'd spend all this magic setting up elaborate illusions and teleporters but leave the trap to be seen by middling rogues.

>>96116799
We already understand though that even if you skip the portals, you don't get anywhere. You HAVE to have been marked by each door. If you just skip over them by disabling the trap, you make zero progress.

>>96116799
>middling rogues
high level rogues aren't middling.

>>96116799
This >>96116957 and also having a Spot check with Outsider levels of bonuses is not typical. And even though she saw the trap, she wasn't nearly able to do anything about it with her own skills.

>>96116799
aw, surprisingly cute.

It's been a while since I thogged.

>>96113195
>>96116799
Well we didn't actually see the nameless bugbear die, but Thog's got the axe now, so no points for guessing what happened. Unless Rich is setting up for a punchline where it turns out they got it by just asking for it nicely

>>96118168
they axed for it

I feel bad. They are cute. It feels like they are going to die or get their shit handed to them.

>>96116799
>but leave the trap to be seen by middling rogues.
What are you talking about, her traps are the best in the world as per >>96113886

>>96118768
i predict Nale is gonna job and save the world, keep his demon body, and over throw his dad with Elan in the sequel

>>96113195
I remember Haley fiddling with the trap somehow, but it's been years, can someone remind me what that was all about?

>>96120377
The trap is a portal that takes you into a magical subdungeon. Once you get to the end each one, a similar trap marks your butthole with a rune. If you have all the runes, the next portal you cross takes you into the Final Dungeon. If you hop over the entry trap, it takes you into Serini's base.

>>96120904
note also that the trap with which Haley fiddled is not the same one that Nale bypassed
that was a different tunnel

>>96121001
My understanding is all the real tunnels lead into a cave complex that Sereni lives in, and once you've gone through every door any portal will take you to the final dungeon.

>>96121015
yeah, I agree
I was just pointing out that Haley fiddling with the teleport trap had zero impact on Nale

>>96120377
the lines are portals that lead to short dungeons full of monsters and an ending room that secretly gives you a mark
if you collect them all, the ending room instead opens a portal to the final dungeon (see strip 1285)
if the line is deactivated or bypassed, you don't teleport and instead move normally to the "backstage" where serini lives

>>96120904
You know, one thing I never got about Modrons is how the super-high castes communicate with the super-low ones that are said to be unable to perceive them. Made me think the idea that Inevitables work within the hierarchy as middle-men to inform the base drones directly without breaking their brains or requiring them babysat by the linear chain of command for every waking cycle.

>>96127347
It's the plane of law, I think an endless bureaucracy that takes timeless eons to progress is on brand. Personally I think it's a flatland scenario where they have to present lower-dimension slices of themselves to be understood.

>>96127347
They're pure Law beings. Either:
>caste system was designed to never actually require communication between beings separated by more than one tier
or, more likely,
>hurr durrr we can't solve this problem because we can't talk because thems the rules, fuck yea lawful, if you don't like it fuck off to neutraland.

Anyone prefer Xykon original design? Everyone looks better but I always thought he looked better before

>>95999670 (OP)
I only came into this thread to remark that this page is rather light on words

>>96130133
>caste system was designed to never actually require communication between beings separated by more than one tier
This is pretty much how I think of it. If a high caste needs something done by a low caste, he delegates the command through the middle caste. High castes mostly worry about broad strokes, middle castes interpret orders and have low castes do the grunt work.

>>96113438
Anon they haven't bypassed anything. The final dungeon isn't in the "backrooms", even if you figure out the trick you need get a magical tattoo from each dungeon.

>>96130815
New design has more sloping forehead and a noticeable brow ridge.
New Xykon looks like a neanderthal.

>>96132135
Well, he IS a sorcerer

>>96132135
>New Xykon looks like a neanderthal
Good way to put it
he looks stupid

>>96132576