Léon Spilliaert edition

>Previous Thread
>>95973439
>Pastebin
https://pastebin.com/WiCHizn0
>Mediafire
https://mediafire.com/folder/s9esc6u7ke8k5/CofD
>Mega I
https://mega.nz/folder/ePQ1BKhJ#RCosRCh59Ki2Mpb1M9H3Uw
>Mega II (also containing fanmade games)
https://mega.nz/folder/ZbQ2zLJA#DOT-3df6rS2lLet4_RmqJQ
>WoD5 Mega
https://mega.nz/folder/7rQQ1LbQ#16_AiXVGo0P3_rVOJuoZyA
>STV content folders
https://pastebin.com/9i9zhydQ
>General Creation Kit
https://mega.nz/#F!FWJgBTbb!f7d5rARWHYzuI8-8aI-Bxw
>Ideas: BJ Zanzibar's WoD
http://167.99.155.149/
>Anders Mage Page
http://mage.gearsonline.net/anders/
>White Wolf Wiki:
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Main_Page

>Thread Question:
How do you utilise ghouls/kinfolk/etc. in your games, both as a player and a storyteller. Have you ever had any experiences playing as one?

>>96001393 (OP)
I make the bulk of the supernatural community out of "side-kick" splats.
As far as playing them, I'd ask to define the question better. Sorcerers, Kinain, Possessed, etc, on are on a completely different level than your average kinfolk or ghoul(though both of the latter can be A Lot stronger than most realize).

>>96001414
>That isn't because they are more "right"
It is though. The Reason some paradigms are "suckier" than others is because they're straight-up Objectively Wrong about basic shit. Being wrong is what limits their paradigm.

>>96001429
All kinfolk are there to be bred and support their Garou superiors.
-Shadow Lord Biggus Dickus

>>96001484
>when kinfolk start gunning down the Garou and turn into werewolf hunters

>>96001478
No? A paradigm being wrong or right doesn't matter. Hell, if it did matter, most of the Marauders would be harmless. Hermetic, Choisters and Akashic are wrong about say, Forces right? Maybe Choisters are closer to the truth with Demon the Fallen stuff but overall they are all wrong, even if Hermetics are known for their Forces. In fact, every Tradition is wrong since Spheres are just imaginary concepts and before that there were Foundations.

I need some help coming up with names for two Slashers for an upcoming HtV game. The Slashers in question are currently the "Bouncer" and "Binman", and those just sound kinda shit.

The Bouncer is a Brute who suffered a traumatic brain injury while trying to break up a fight outside a nightclub. Since then he exists in a permanent state of fight or flight, his brain unable to move away from that night. When he gets agitated, he falls back into that violent state and will brutally start maiming and killing. He uses improvised weaponry to hand, and a knuckle duster he keeps on his person. He's an imposing guy, shaved head with a fresh scar from that one night.

The Binman is a Freak who lives in the town dump, he sorts through peoples bins in search of a kindred spirit. When he finds the house of a person who he idolises, he will don a hi-vis vest and hide in plain sight as a binman to scope the place out. He'll break in and brutally murder the object of his affection, dismembering them and storing them in binbags back at the dump. He wraps himself up in binbags when he kills, and will throttle them to death before forcibly pulling them apart with his bare hands.

I like them both conceptually, but their names suck and I could use help coming up with new ones.

>>96001764
>Since then he exists in a permanent state of fight or flight,
Half light :^)

Where is hedgefag

Hey guys im a cool wolf like you garou right? :)

>>96001805

>>96001574
>A paradigm being wrong or right doesn't matter.
You literally posted an example in the other thread where it Absolutely Matters. A paradigm being completely wrong about a mage's capabilities genuinely nerfs the mage.

>>96001393 (OP)
In a canceled game, my Gangrel had two children he met at the Corsican maquis, and decided to groom for eventual embrace. They later moved to Europe, where one became a software dev wagie, while the other mysteriously vanished I took the "get cucked" bane, so she probably got embraced by another vampire
Her brother would call on me to help find her, providing me a home and his spare cash. Didn't get too far in to see closure, sadly.

>>96002202
kek

>>96002031
This is endemic of the core issue with MtAsc. The game's balance and lore essentially depend on players nerfing themselves via paradigm and foci without giving a real mechanical need or incentive to do so. This causes a shit-ton of cascading imbalances and narrative plot-holes.
The "simplest"(aka not simple, but still least complicated) is making foci and paradigm actually matter mechanically. Give more difficult foci and limiting paradigms a point rating like flaws/taints/etc that mages can use to buy mechanical benefits like Hermetic True Names, Akashic Do, etc.
This shit is why I genuinely think sorcerer is straight-up superior as a game.

>>96001802
Dead.

>>96001544
That was the original plot of samiel height before one of the authors turned him into their personal self-insert(happened in Rage across the Amazon).
I think the kinfolk community at large would become immesuably pissed too if they found out some of the things the garou nation is keeping from them(like the fact they can actually learn gifts up to level 3 and can even perform Rites if they make pacts with the necessary spirits)

>Malkavian Elders be like
https://youtu.be/E3v-4uQrId4?si=IDBmRbW7mvUYmemj

>>96003044
>Malkavian
Are you sure?
I smell animalism.

>>96001393 (OP)
>TQ

I like ghouls but honestly I think the official material puts too much emphasis on them. I think the emphasis on having lesser versions of yourself that are your servants is something downwind of troupe play, which I've never tried, always wanted to try, but don't think my group would be into.

>>96003163
>Are you sure?
He is not ugly enough to be a Nos and no one gives a shit about the Gangrel.

>>96003276
G-gangrenebros...

>>96003293
I want to like the clan, but they are so unimportant and peripheral that I forget they exist as one.

>get the biggest advantages vampires get, biological immortality and Disciplines
>don't have any of the downsides, not even reliant on vampires like normal ghouls are
Revenants seem to have it better than almost everyone.

>>96003346
>t. obertus

>>96002031
Not that anon (or anyone else involved in this convo), but I actually think this is a neat element. I used it to inform some minor crafts/sects in my Mage campaign, where some of the Traditions looked down on them because their paradigms were "flawed"

>>96003346
>no downsides
>except that they have Frenzy, Rötschreck, their own Beast, Clan Weaknesses based on their heredity, near absolute loyalty to their vampire progenitor even without a Blood Bond due to them effectively producing their own master's vitae, a tendency to be horrifically inbred, an 80% chance you're a Tzimisce's descendant, and the general trend towards cannibalistic and murderous inclination caused to ghouls who aren't being regularly fed blood

Ok

>>96003346
Is there a revenant merit? Like there are kinfolk and ghoul merits?

>>96003346
>biological immortality
Revenants don't have this. They age at 1/4 the rate of humans, meaning they do in fact die of old age.
The only way to prevent this is to become a vampire's slave.
>Disciplines
Good luck with your 1 dot max in any discipline(unless you become a slave to an elder), at a cost of ratingx30 xp points. You're genuinely better off buying literally anything else, including normal mortal sorcery.

>>96003461
yes

>>96003346
I imagine revenant life is like being a Kennedy, but your retarded great aunt Rosemary roams the halls like Lisa Trevor.

>>96003473
Which book?

>>96003471
>including normal mortal sorcery
Depending on the path, these are better than most disciplines.

>>96003480
Blood Treachery p. 79
Same book that says vampire blood gilguls any mage, and that revenants auto-gilgul themselves after a time.

>>96003489
>7 dots
Grim.

>>96001393 (OP)
I’m looking for vampire the dark age stuff and recommendations. I’m willing to admit I’m a complete idiot and know nothing about the time period. My group wants do do a romp in that setting. Please recommend me some literature from that time period that can help me out

>>96001393 (OP)
so we all know that werewolves can also be cyborgs. Does it then follow that cybernetic limbs also shift when the lycanthrope does? Could this be extrapolated further, so that the wyld energies that infuse the werewolfs artificial limb can be transfused into some otherwise inanimate object?

Could there, in fact, be were-toasters?

>>96003489
Does gilgul affect living mages who are fed vampiric blood like a ghoul?

>>96003937
>Does it follow that cybernetic limbs also shift when the lycanthrope does

If you're asking about W:tA, the cyberlimb has to have a spirit bound into it, i.e. be a fetish. Otherwise, it tends not to stay on too well.

>Could there, in fact, be were-toasters?

"On the last full moon I was scratched by a Cylon! Now I'm cursed to turn into one!"

>>96003938
No, he’s saying that vampire blood slowly kills a Mage’s Avatar.

How much magic does the average mage actually do on a day-to-day basis in Ascension? And what does that magic look like? Because obviously they’re not walking around, doing Vulgar effects every day, even minor and relatively safe ones, because that adds up fast.

>>96004472
>How much magic does the average mage actually do on a day-to-day basis in Ascension?
Well it heavily depends. If they have access to a realm or even a personal lab then they can do a lot.
Otherwise, they'd try to limit their use to whenever it's necessary. It makes no sense to use a teleportation effect to go for groceries, but you should probably use it when being pursued.
Also take in mind that not practicing magick for a certain amount of time helps bleed out accumulated Paradox.
>And what does that magic look like?
Whatever the mage wants it to. All you need to do is being able to bullshit consensus (and your ST) into thinking it MAY be a coincidence.
For example, opening a portal right in front of a sleeper is vulgar. Running away from them, going inside an alley and teleporting away can be explained away. Nobody saw you teleport, so maybe you just snuck down the manhole over there or opened a window, or you're just that fast.
Throwing a lightning bolt? No, no. You see, it was a malfunctioning powerline or a nearby switch going haywire. A fireball? Nearby gas leak, very dangerous.
In some places, a mage can get away with slightly more vulgar stuff. If there's no sleepers he might still get a difficulty increase, but not necessarily generate any Paradox from it.
All a mage needs to do is be aware of the situation he's in, really. That said, when push comes to shove it's preferable to incur Paradox than to die.

This is what a high humanity kindred and hunter rivalry should look like:
https://youtu.be/h-HdWiQrRWg

What kind of chronicle would allow for Mokolé PCs?
Might include Nagah and other Fera too. How many of them go crazy at the sight of a super-dino Mokolé?

A human can only safely drink a max of one liter of liquid per hour (if even that).
A human has around five liters of blood and losing one liter is unlikely to be of any huge concern.
Blood also takes a long time to flow from the veins and completely draining someone would take an inconvenient amount of time.

How does the setting explain this? There's no need for them to even kill humans and it would be a huge hassle to drain someone completely.

>>96004921
Vampires are magic. Do you also struggle to understand their sunlight sensitivity?

>>96004921
Being an anti-humanist vampire is the most based and Nietzschean thing you can be.

>>96001484
Perhaps, but all female garous belong to kinfolk men, so it's not so bad.

>>96004940
I think vampire are culturally and narratively stagnant. They've gone from being corpse monsters, to being warnings not to trust foreigners or strangers, to being romanticized as creatures that blur the line of sex and death, to being likened to parasites to serve as vehicles for social critique. Vampires are played out and gay. Where's the innovation?

>>96005005
You clearly haven't read VtM lore so why don't you go do that instead of asking stupid questions based on stupider assumptions?

>>96005015
I don't see how any of the vampire clans or lore bring new ideas. The antediluvians are a cool concept but the rest seem like the same standard stuff you see everywhere

>>96005039
Seems to me like you just dislike vampires in general and nothing we show you will make you change your mind.

>>96005015
>>96005072
You seem strangely defensive. Have you tried not having such thin skin when it comes to criticism of games you like?

>>96005097
I'm more of a Mage guy. Trying to get into Wraith and Werewolf at the moment.
But I'm just being honest about what I see. If I list twenty things that I consider fresh (for their time, mind you, the setting is 30 years old) about Vampire you'd probably respond saying each one of those is just more of the same, compare it to something else and ultimately say Vampires are stale. You've clearly made up your mind.

Looks like a troll wasn't getting enough attention from shitting up the catalog and has decided to shit up this general too.

>>96004472
It depends on how advanced they are, their personality and how they do magic.
Some spend their early Magehood as Appantices in specific schooling, most Hermetics, and continue their studies in chantries and specific Horizon Realms.
Others have personal teachers and continue their normal lives through their life.

But the biggest fact about Mage is that at their core, their own Avatar will push them to advance.

Good news!

I've become unemployed, I now have the time to dedicate to that dream 1 player campaign you've always wanted. What was it again you wanted to play anon?

>>96005189
Oh sorry buddy I just became employed, looks like we'll have to cancel the plans after all

>>96002031
That isn't about the paradigm being wrong, though? It has nothing to do with the paradigm being right or wrong. It is about the beliefs shaping your paradigm.
You could have the paradigm based on say, the scenario of the universe is the reason why you have magical powers and if you truly believe it, it would still work even if it is completely wrong.

>>96003882
Dark Ages: Europe can give a good overview of places from a vampire’s point of view.

Otherwise, often the core rule books or supplements will list out good media to consume to get an idea for setting or time period information. History books, or history YouTubers that go into the life at the time. Play Kingdom Come: Deliverance for an idea of 15th century Bohemia. Things like that. Wikipedia.

>>96004921
I’m going to engage this in good faith.

A human has 5 liters of blood, or 10 blood points. Thus, 2 blood points per liter. A vampire can safely take 2 blood points from a vessel without risking too much health impact.

The amount a human can drink doesn’t factor into how much a supernatural monster (vampire) can drink. It’s not like it’s filling their stomach, but could be said to become part of them. They also generally favor drinking from large arteries. The amount of blood going through arteries even without a vampire sucking at it is enough to kill a person in less than a minute.

>>96005348
In Req, at least, the explanation is also that it doesn't go into the stomach for digestion like in living humans. Blood is absorbed through the walls of the throat and directly converts into Vitae.

>>96005254
>That isn't about the paradigm being wrong, though?
It is about the paradigm being wrong. The kopa mages genuinely thing the only way to manipulate forces and energy is to bend the natural forces that are they. They are wrong, completely, utterly, objectively wrong. There's no other way to cut it. If their paradigm wasn't wrong, they'd be able to create forces like any tradition mage.
> it would still work even if it is completely wrong.
Anon, are you retarded?I'm not saying the kopa dipshits can't do magic. I'm saying they're wrong about how magic works and that limits what they can do with magic.

Hello fellow bloodsuckers, what its cracking this recents nights? Any tips to drain blood from a cow?

>>96005956
My personal experience, your mileage may vary.
Cattle in general isn't anything more than a temporary safety/relocating measure at best.
The hypnotic/sedative effect of the kiss, as far as I can tell, is considerably lessened on animals compared to humans, something we don't have to mind much when feeding on rats, but becomes more of a hurdle when feeding on bigger animals. Feeding on cattle means being able to subdue and kill fast... and to cover it up if needs be.
Another thing to take into account: takes more blood in volume to reach sustenance. Which means either you're more likely to kill upon feeding or you need to feed on more targets, meaning even more work for tranquilizing and cover up. It really slows thing down for one trying to be careful.
I suspect a lot of the local news about cattle/horses being attacked by wolves are actually sabbat nomad packs feeding, though my sire won't let me investigate to prove/disprove that. Which is sad, could lake for a good tracking tool.
I know of at least one Banu Haquim that had deals with a local butcher, taking the blood from the blood letting of halal meat. Whatever helps them sleep, I guess.

>>96005956
Anon, you want the halal slaughter forum. We're the bloodletting forum where you drain humans for their own physical health. It's a historical tried and tested medical method and we don't appreciate you mocking us like this. Leave.

>>96006079
Goddammit Alberto now we're gonna have to switch servers again!

>>96005956
>1. find a leech and a cow
>2. wait for the leech to finish draining the cow
>3. kill the leech
you now have a drained cow.

>>96004552
Wouldn’t teleporting in an alley count as Vulgar, just without witnesses and therefore only accrue one point of Paradox, but still would? (I’m going off of M20 rules, since that’s the only one I’m vaguely familiar with).

>>96005956
Just buy the blood from a butcher like humans do

>>96006079
>though my sire won't let me investigate to prove/disprove that
I can take a look at that, no biggie. Thanks for the tip. Just got soime cattle of cows for something but i guess I can re-sell it.

>>96006173
>Anon, you want the halal slaughter forum.
Sorry I dont do middle eastern stuff.

Does anybody have the directions for the closet disco ELYSIUM? *wink wink*

Thanks for the help fellow warmless, sun hating, Jesus-loving creatures of the night. I'm gonna do a bloodsucking now.

FFS my kin told me it was a waste of effort to try and open up an anonymous board outside of shrecknet, but did I listen? Noooo, I just thought you retards could keep up a semblence of opsec
Fuck it, I'm microwaving the hard drives, say bye bye to your docs and porn

>>96005643
Taking this in stride, not willing to check all the conversationfrom previous thread, so if I'm missing the point, disregard.
Seems to me like you're being mistaken here between what is efficient *as a player* trying to maximize power, and for a character that has a system of belief. Mages characters don't chose what they believe in, it's just what they believe in.
And yes, some pradigms are less "efficient" than others. They're their own limits. By definition. I would argue half the fun of mage is exploring in play those lilmits and what they entail for characters. It's not about being the most powerful, it's about how our beliefs shape our relationships to reality, and what it means for us.

>TQ
I'm known to be pretty stringent on ghouls. I very much limit them, keeping them at basically V1 core level and less - live a bit longer, ages slower and *very* gracefully, heal easier etc... - but not immortal, and nothing more than Potence 1 to claim. No revenant families - that is there are families sheppered by some that make likely targets for ghouledom; but they're not born with powers from the vitae (yes, I'm boring).
All in all, I like my ghoul as addicts. I think players using them as a way to offload intendancy is warranted as long as they don't make it all disappear, which is too often the case.
Kinfolk I rarely use - Werewolf isn't my game. But I metioned IRA about Under a Blood Red Moon in a previous thread, and that's very much a source of inspiration. They're familly caught up in a war, and torn between allegiences, needs and wants, and the hammer of the mundane world.

>>96006205
Now where do I get that big of a Leech? any off-the-site vendors I can look for?

>>96006236
Keep in character, eveything is under control. We didn't create VtM as a Masqueade tool to not use it.
Plausible deniability and nomadic access points.

(Stupid story, I had a friend recently buy me the latest 25 anniversary Jyhad decks. Reimbursed him via wire transfert... I was that close to fill in "Jyhad" as the object of the wire, but thankfully my brain reconnected in time. Had a good laugh though.)

>>96006079 >>96006173 >>96006180

Anons, the schreknet roleplaying thread is a different general. Don't pollute the mechanics and faq general with roleplay bullshit

>>96006405
>>96006205 >>96006212 >>96006223
>can't reply to all posts because 4chan can't tell between replies and spam appearantly

>>96006414
>>96006223 >>96006236 >>96006304
>fuck this site, seriously

How would you rework Requiem so it's not just Masquerade but lamer?

>>96006479
It can't be, because the problem here is that you're a fag who is baiting.

>>96006523
>this objective fact makes me upset and uncomfortable
>I KNOW I'LL ACCUSE YOU OF BAITING
>yes I'm a genius
Grow a skin, Timmy.

>>96006479
The entire reason it exists is to be Masquerade but lamer, White Wolf was mad that people were playing VtM in a fun way so they made a game where everything cool was removed from the setting and vampires were too weak to do anything but mope around the way they intended.

>>96006523
b8 aside, just use the second edition and translation guide to patch what you want in at your table.

>>96006262
you can find them mingling with other wyrmspawn anywhere, but try upper management positions and top-floor executives if you're looking for something to do on a friday night.

>>96006651
It exists because White Wolf shot themselves in the foot with the apocalyptic storylines to the point they decided to reboot the thing into a form that doesn't depend on the metaplot.

>>96006578
I never played Requiem, but I feel it would allow for more "power fantasies" than Masquerade. From what I can tell the metaplot in Masquerade is just something that happens to the cool signature characters, you only suffer the consequences, and all the powerful vampires exist to humble your player characters who can never get to their level due to generations. Same goes for Mage metaplot, which also only exists to nerf your characters.

>>96006797
You replied to the wrong anon.

>>96006559
Not falling for it faggot.

>>96006600
It's still a ripoff. Still has multiple signature Clans from Masquerade, same Disciplines, same political structure with Covenants being paper-thin reskins of Masquerade organizations (especially Invictus and Carthians), mechanics are largely the same, the list goes on and on.

>>96006405
Yeah but it's dead rn

>>96006797 meant for >>96006578

>>96006974
Then make another one. It'll take 2 minutes Max. This isn't your ERP thread.

Last thread we had a pretty good discussion about inter-party conflict and PvP. I'm gonna throw another topic out here
>Have you ever run a game which went in a direction (be it tonally, in terms of stakes, etc) wildly different from what you were expecting?

I decided I was going to try out Geist: the Sin Eaters with my group and was honestly expecting it to be mostly about Ghost Stand Battles in a scenic New Mexico small town, while the players raced against the clock to find out why the barrier between the living and the dead was thinning away into nothing. However, I was not expecting it to become an intense character drama where player characters and NPCs would talk for hours about fairly mundane topics including but not limited to
>Reminiscing about the good old days
>High School Drama
>Couch co-op video game sessions

Have you had any similar experiences?

>>96007091
I have one from my first game of H5 I ST.

>Cell of 4 Hunters, all brand new to the truth of the monsters.
>Only problem is, 3 were victims/witness to Vampires and 1 was Almost killed by some guy who turned into a Werewolf while on a tabern brawl.
>The Werewolf Hunter refuses to acknowledge that Vamps are a thing. He thinks that are just some goth larpers with severe issues.
>Other 3 Hunters can't explain or proof otherwise becasue they didn't have proofable evidence that the puncture wounds and slash wounds are from Vamps and not other things.
>Have fought against Gunshop and helped some Wraiths and shit to pass on and even almost die to a Werewolf they helped another Hunter kill.
>Still in denial of Vamps and every evidence and even the presence of a Vamp is justa Goth with makeup and wierd mage powers.
>It was pretty funny how the storyline ended and he still didn't believe in Vamps and the others from the Cell just stoped trying after the Ghosts.

>>96006811
>I never played Requiem, but I feel it would allow for more "power fantasies" than Masquerade
Kinda, some of the social powers and 1 dot disciplines got buffed but for the most part you don't get to dunk on mortals just because you are a vamp as often as masquerade.

>>96007036
Sadly ERP isn't fun to play in practice let alone in a random thread.

>>96007257
Not with that attitude it isn't.

>>96007237
Strongly disagree. Requiem 2e vampires have way more out of the box to dunk on mortals with than Masquerade vampires unless you're like 7th gen and up. Since they don't use the same core mechanics there are a few areas where a direct comparison just isn't possible but Requiem vampires
>Can learn most out of clans without a tutor
>Save celerity, most disciplines have more oomph than their Masquerade counterparts
>Very few powers gatekept behind being an elder, there's a lot of good devotions
>Have enhanced hearing and a sense of smell (for blood) without need for a discipline
>Perfect night vision (seriously Masquerade vampires need Protean to see in the dark)

The only big template advantage Masquerade vampires have over Requiem vampires is rolled soak letting them no-sell attacks entirely, though that is a quirk of the damage system itself. On the flipside, Requiem vampires can drink way more blood per person both with or without killing them due to how health dots work, again a quirk of the core mechanics and thus hard to compare directly. Bloodbuff v.s. Physical Intensity is a sidegrade that boils down to whether you want a large boost with a short duration, or a less efficient boost that lasts much longer. I think bloodbuff scales better if you have a potent generation. Another core mechanic thing that makes it hard to grade is that oWoD default character creation assumes you already have some notches in your belt, so you have more points to play with. nWoD character creation presumes you're totally fresh, and the core rules tell you to give out extra exp if the characters are more experienced.

My favorite way to play vampire is with a Masquerade to Requiem conversion though, I want to get the best of both worlds.

>>96007457
I always felt like Requiem was higher floor, lower ceiling when compared to VtM. Haven't played 2ed though.

>>96007257
>he doesn't know

>>96007499
>I always felt like Requiem was higher floor, lower ceiling when compared to VtM. Haven't played 2ed though.

That's essentially correct, including 2e. The issue is that in Masquerade the ceiling is a two part equation, age (more accurately experience, but the two strongly correlate) and generation. So unless you somehow swing increasingly impressive diableries, you as the Masquerade vamp will never get anywhere close to the ceiling. So white room absolutely, especially because Requiem has so few example Methuselah to go off of.

>>96007091
>Have you had any similar experiences?
Not as an ST, but my group went into our old WoD campaign expecting a very episodic 'monster of the weak' kind of thing. Instead, we regularly spent long stretches of time on in-character discussions regarding the many irons we had in the fire as well as in-character arguments as to how we should proceed on some things. I loved it and so did the ST, but it got to be too much for some of the players and sadly the campaign ended.

>>96007457
While I see where you are coming from, the engine differences and general mindset of masquerade makes mortals into much less of threat.
>Spoiler
Imagine having rules that don't suck in a masquerade game lol.

>>96007572
>general mindset of masquerade
I'm curious as to what exactly you mean by this. Is it in reference to Masquerade's inherent larger scale or that it generally presupposes more vampires in positions of power?

>Imagine having rules that don't suck in a masquerade game lol.
That was the goal. It happened because I had a friend who had such a bad experience with Masquerade mechanically he didn't want to try it again.

>>96007532
There are multiple ways to side-step diablerie or even ignore generation entirely in VtM though. There are generation lowering rituals, demonic investments, golconda, etc that can let vampires focus solely on the gaining xp aspect of the power tract, the main gate on VtMs power is storyteller approval more than anything mechanical.

>>96007650
>generation lowering rituals, demonic investments, golconda

All of those are supposed to be extremely rare though.

>>96007721
Not "From Marduk's Throat", Assimites win so hard it's terrifying.

>>96007827
>Level five or six ritual
>Difficulty 9 willpower (or stamina depending on version) roll required
>Still need an absurd amount of low gen vitae (28 blood points required for the jump from 8th to 7th)
>Need to make ANOTHER difficulty 9 willpower roll, this one extended needing 15 successes
>If you fail a roll during this you take 6 dice of lethal damage

In what world is this easy to access?

>>96007532
>so white room absolutely
I was more thinking if you're the DM. You're left with a lot more amplitude.
I find that was always part of the charm and one the biggest issues VtM had.

>>96007721
>All of those are supposed to be extremely rare though.
They are, but at the end of the day it's a matter of DM fiat. If the DM allows for a 4th gen elder game, the the ceilling is higher.

>>96007091
>Have you ever run a game which went in a direction (be it tonally, in terms of stakes, etc) wildly different from what you were expecting?
Often actually. That's the boon of having cool players.
I have good memories of starting what I thought was going to be a rather small scale, almost intimist hunter game for players to take me by suprise, become engrossed in financial forensics, digging front companies after front companies, traveling all over the world until they found themselves in the 10tth basement floor of a Pentex medical lab that used the corrupted blood from a detained 4th gen setite to "corrupt" people to whom it sold a "panacea cure".

>>96007897
>If the DM allows for a 4th gen elder game, the the ceilling is higher.

Fair, though has anyone actually done that?

>sims 4 added c̶h̶a̶n̶g̶e̶l̶i̶n̶g̶s̶ fairies
ah sweet I can finally do my werewolf/vampire/mage/changeling schizo rp

>>96007184
What stated reason did the character even give as to why he could believe werewolves, ghosts, and wizards but not vampires?

>>96007545
Did it end properly if early, or did things just fizzle out when some players left?

>>96007897
Hunters Hunted, Reckoning, or Vigil?
also this is just my view on things but Setites are just wyrm cultists in various stages of denial. I'm surprised they'd have to detain them.

>>96008027
The reason he gave was that Vampires are just a Hollywood thing and its stupid thta they can only be outside by night only. (Those were his character opinions, the guy was an actuall fan of VtM and was fun for the group that his character was in denial of that specific thing.

>>96007984
I always cite that player from a neighbouring table at the local club playing a 4th gen Salubri paladin, with his pet ghoul wolf and his magical flaming sword. Guy was having the time of his life, but yeah he and his friend were definitely playing VtM as urban fantasy with a *very* strong emphasis on the later. "Super heroes with fangs" does come from somewhere and wasn't that rare in my experience, though yeah, this is an extreme case.

>>96008027
Hunters Hunted.
The detainement was mostly a device to not have the players be massacred. When I started the campaign, it was nothing more than a one line footnote to justify events that were far away and mostly tangential to the core idea of what I thought the game was about to be.
Then players made it otherwise.

>>96008027
>Did it end properly if early, or did things just fizzle out when some players left?
Nobody left; we just decided as a group to end it and play something else. Group composition has shifted since then; part of the reason I lurk these threads is to gather information for a pitch to convince him to try it again.

>>96005348
Vampires don't suck. They lick and then scrape.

>>96007868
The world where there's a shit ton of resources for lowering the difficulty of willpower rolls and adding extra dice. Especially with assamite sorcery.
Hell, their fucking Road, that everyone in the clan is supposed to be following on pain of Death from the current methusela in charge, gives a -2 diff reduction to willpower rolls. Realistically, assamites roll at diff 7 if not Lower.

>>96008393
They also fucked up the wording of the ritual Again in the V20 version. If it worked like it should from context clues(x4 blood pool of new generation), going from 8th to 7th would take 80 blood points. As it stands, it takes Less blood the farther you go because it requires [new generation]x4 bp, meaning going 7th to 6th is 24 bp etc. An assamite methusela could become an Ante with 12 bp from the pool in alamut.

>>96008443
A problem mostly solved if you count new gen as dots in the background instead of the number of the generation it is.

>>96008489
Anon, 7th generation is 6 dots in the generation background. 6 x 4 is 24, not 28. Your math doesn't work. If you're gonna houserule it anyway, just go for broke and set it to 80 like the writers intended.

>>96008393
The willpower is the easiest hurdle to clear, only a handful of assamite sorcerers (not very common) will know it, and if you can get all that vitae from an elder you might as well go whole hog and diablerize them, you're a fuckin' assamite.

>>96008595
The ritual is honestly easier. The sorcerers were already working it 24/7 for their clanmates after the tremere curse event and you can get blood points as payments for services rendered, which is explicitly how the ass get the blood for their ritual. The writers wrote themselves into a corner with this bit of worldbuilding and chose to just ignore it.

>>96006859
I think the Covenants have different enough flavor, I would probably try to differentiate it based on that. 40k kiddies would probably like Lancea et Sanctum.

>>96008686
You're presuming a coherent vision. This power was always hidden away in supplement books.

Nothing about the Assamites was ever well thought out.

>>96008443
Seeing how the V20 version lowered the ritual from 6th level to 5th and switched the roll from stamina to willpower, I don't think that was a "fuck-up". The think one of the writers for lore of the clans was a hardcore assamite fanboy and purposefully gave them a massive power-boost right under the editors nose.

>Trying to sleep
>Wake up to a man screaming about Rabbits in the woods sprinting out of the forest
>Not again

Hey there, does anybody have something like pic related but for Hunter: The Reckoning 5E? Any help is appreciated

>>96008847
Nobody cares enough about H5 to make one.

>>96008825
Don't let him bite you.

>>96007597
The mindset I was talking about is how mortals are often disregarded as a threat and some powers basically handwave most of them resisting.

How do you make Potence, Celerity,
and fortitude more interesting?

And second question, do they need to be?

>>96008847
I'm afraid I haven't seen one.
But I kinda wanna do this for Mage.

>>96008907
Simplicity is fine.

>>96008907
>do they need to be?
No

>>96008907
>How do you make Potence, Celerity,
>and fortitude more interesting?
You port the abilities from V5 into whatever you are using.

I now know why the Garou put so much emphasis on their legends and stories, enough to have an entire auspice dedicated to it. It's because theiy're the only "mortal". They don't live for centuries like Vampires or Mages can. In fact, they might be the most relatively short-lived supernatural, even moreso than Changelings.

>>96008907
Unironically this:>>96009035

>>96009035
>>96009165
Most V5 abilities are just either shit you can do using the strength and speed tables within V20 or are just 6+ powers, or are just things you could say “hey ST can I do this?” like sinking your hands into a wall to climb it easier that didn’t need to be codified.

>>96009272
Some of the fortitude stuff is good.

>>96008907
Mechanically, I'd say the older editions physical disciplines are overall more powerful. But they're not really good at telling you, or at the very least making you intuit, what you can do with them. Sure celerity gives you more actions, but at what point can you go fast enough to run along that wall? Sure Fortitude allows you to withstand that damage, but do you flinch? Did the car that hit you full on project you even if you took no damage?
As noted, on that front V5 does a better job, by offering powers that have direct narrative significance, in exchange for overall lessened raw power.
All in all, depends on what you prefer.

Had another Auspex dream (or whatever you call those).
>be me, tremere neonate
>chilling in the chantry, studying the mysteries of the universe
>suddenly, my Auspex goes off
>a premonition inside a premonition
>look out of the window, there are at least 3 toreawhores approaching
>warn my bro
>he's technically my superior (just one circle of mystery ahead, though- I'll fix that soon)
>he says it's better to talk to the whores and go with them to the elysium
>check gargoylebro, he's in place and ready for any shit
>open the gate and let the whores inside
>my familiar, mefistopheles ii, (not infernal, just like the name) looks me in the eye and says, in the old spirit tongue
>"fuck them, fuck them in the ass"
Wake up.
I remember there's Elysium today.

>>96009272
>are just 6+ powers
Not even, most of the things that aren't just mundane feats of strength/speed are replicatable with combo disciplines. Why people seem to think "choose your power per dot" was a thing V5 invented is beyond me.

>>96009621
I'd wager mostly because combo disciplines were a relatively late addition (well to us old timers at least, from memory, I think the first mention was Revised's Camarilla book - though I might be mistaken, some Dark Age book could predate that I'm a biy fuzzy on it) that were meant at first to be an *elder* thing.
That said, combination disciplines were meant to be rare and difficult to learn. V5's powers are basic and accessible to all, at all levels. That's the main game changer fom a design standpoint.

>>96008569
I did say mostly. As you said, though, you can just increase the multiplier.

>>96008169
Scrape and then lick. But only in bat form.

>>96009715
Pretty sure they were introduced in 2e dark ages and carried to revised, but it wasn't talked about in the core books until 20th. Most STs would have missed it given vtm's labyrinthine supplement spread.

If we were to go with current events in WoD, what would you say are factions in the Technocracy are currently in civil war to explain how they lost grip on the major superpowers?

>>96009974
N.W.O. civil war after fallout on how to deal with the Syndicate while the Progenitors and Iteration X have erupted into their own conflict as both are trying to control the masses' perceptions for the future and both were destabilized by the war between the N.W.O. and Syndicate which evolved into a 3 way civil war and neither side is fully committed to any of the factions. The Void Engineers technically support the Syndicate, however largely stay out of the war itself, simply needing the funding of the Syndicate to continue operations as conflict with Deep Space Reality Deviants has reached a critical point and both the North and South poles have destabilized and the thin Gauntlet is at risk of being shredded completely. Both events seem related, but no one is sure why. They've become desperate enough to enlist the help of the Traditions, as both the syndicate and especially N.W.O. in particular are too busy to police them, but this overture for sympathetic Tradition support has caused the Tradition's own conflict to brew up as various factions and/or subfactions believe this is all a ploy by the N.W.O. to destroy them after several targeted strikes by Sleeper assets supported by N.W.O. technology caused the Israel-Iran conflict, assassinating dozens of archmages and managers under the cover of the conflict.

>>96009040
Even Changelings have remembrance.

>>96010006
To add to this: The Virtual Adepts have launched their own attempt to capture global consensus for themselves in opposition to Both the technocracy and traditions. It was the VAs that accelerated the release of AI to the public and while the NWO wanted to clamp down on this to save the timetable, the syndicate quickly jumped in behind them because they saw it as a business opportunity.
This has accelerated the timetable Far faster than technocratic management is able to safely handle and the entire consensus is spinning out of control as reality accelerates toward a singularity that the ITX models haven't mapped out.

>>96009974
As the other anon said, Syndicate vs NWO war is basically the current trend. Not sure about ItX vs Progs, but those two would absolutely get dragged in while the VE just sit in space wondering if they should just abandon earth at this point.
>>96010319
Isn't AI more and ItX thing? Regardless, Virtual Adepts would definitely be behind the 'metaverse' and 'web3' crowd though then again, that all sucked so much I'd just say it was more likely some syndicate higher up going "we didn't need the those nerds anyway" and trying to do it themselves

5e question:
It says high humanity vampires can digest certain liquids as normal. Does that include pissing?

>>96010460
>5e
>Does that include pissing?
Yes.

>>96010479
Super, thanks.

>>96010460
>Does that include pissing?
Anon, don't.

>>96010460

>>96010486
Vampire pissing can be vital part of narrtaive, eg. in Claudia Chevalier Vampire it helps the protagonist escape captivity at one point.

So I've been reading some WTA lore and...
Dude, the Werewolves were massive fucking assholes.

>>96010319
>It was the VAs that accelerated the release of AI to the public
"AI", right. The various generational masturbation algorithm engines are too simple to be associated with the Virtual Adepts. Hell, even "vibe coding" is the latest NWO "FUCK YOU" psy-op targetting the Adepts' potential recruiting pool. I mean, who needs to see and learn how information flows when "AI" can do it for you? Who needs to think and question for themselves when "AI" can do it for you? You needs to live when the Technocr-I mean "AI" can do it for you?

>>96010367
This guy has the right of it. All the current crap in tech is Syndicate-tainted to high hell
>Cloud computing
>Walled gardens
>TikTok
>Streamers


"What's a computer?" has been the agenda for the last couple years. And it's working, sadly.

>>96010569
>were

>>96009974
I'm gonna go against the grain and say the Technocratic Union has a "soft" cold war and most of the in-fighting is either competitive (i.e. Iterators and Progenitors racing each other in technological progress) or too secretive (i.e. Syndicate and NWO trying to purge their own). But ultimately working as intended.
Any crisis is either a massive paradox backlash (deserved for their hubris) or manufactured and planned.
But I agree that VAs and possibly Etherites are fucking with the acceleration of certain technologies and theories entering the consensus.

>>96010578
Yes. Werewolves were wereassholes.
And Arewolves are areassholes.

>>96010569
This is World of Darkness, pretty much everyone is asshole. Maybe except Mummies, Mummies just want you to get off their lawn.

>>96009442
Your dream was wrong, Harry Blooder. Everyone knows Toreawhores's assholes were made for Big Gangrel Cock. Hey, I don't make the rules, just enforce them.

>>96007868
>Level five or six ritual
YOU don't need to know it, just know a high enough level guy whom you can pay to do it for you. It's even described that way in the system.
>Difficulty 9 willpower
Focused Mind it bruh. Can also combine it with several rites or controlled environments to reduce the difficulty.
>absurd amount of low gen vitae
Not in the post-scarcity society most vampires live in. What you need is a low gen vampire willing to donate it. There's a merit to make a prince/elder owe you a lifeboon.
>If you fail a roll during this you take 6 dice of lethal damage
Keep a blood bank van nearby and just use blood to improve your soak and/or regenerate the damage.

It isn't trivial, but in-clan, as long as you're within good standing, it's more a wonder why everyone in the clan isn't gen 8 at minimum.

>>96010609
Yeah but the whole Apis, Grondr and Camazotz thing was really fucked up.
I expect Vampires to be dicks since they're the progeny of the first-ever-dickhead.
I can understand Mages becoming jerks over time because the more they understand and manipulate the universe, the more inconsequential their ties to humanity become.
I see why Demons are assholes because... well, they're demons. Enough said.
And Wraiths are tossed into a "dog eats dog" world while their schizo side tells them to become the chef and cook themselves so at least they have an excuse.
But the Garou? Holy shit these guys aren't Gaia's "immune system." They're an autoimmune disease.

>>96010614
Too late, mr gangrene, I've already fucked a toreawhore. She looked a lot like the whore in my dream. Auspex is a wonderful tool.
Now that I think about it, your clan has been suspiciously absent from Elysium ever since the "obligatory bath" law has been passed.

>>96010609
>Mummies just want you to get off their lawn
You're thinking of Chronicles mummies. Old-wod mummies are basically egypt -themed paladins fighting the forces of darkness.
They're pretty much the one and only 100%, no grey-area, absolutely lawful good faction. Asshole mummies literally become crippled because their max attributes are limited by their morality track, even below 5. Only way around this is to become capital e Evil and join the side of darkness as a new bane mummy so you can gain an evilness rating in place of a goodness rating(you still get crippled if you aren't evil enough).

>>96010614
>>96010667
Wait, you mean kindred can still have sex?

>>96010687
Most can, but a few clans have problems getting hard.
Most notably Brujah.

>>96010698
Brujah also have issues finishing early.
Surprisingly, ventrue are one of the clans with the least issues getting hard. Their biggest issue is that their picky as hell and demand their partners to fulfill a laundry list of fetishes.

>>96010712
>ventrue are one of the clans with the least issues getting hard.
Well of course, they have Fortitude as an in-clan discipline

>>96010712
>The 1000-year old Ventrue elder who's into petplay
>As the pet
All his peers think he learned Protean for perfectly legitimate reasons

Would a kindred be able to learn and use the Forgotten Thaumaturgy of Ghouldom for anything? It's normally used by ghouls to free themselves or influence their domitors, but could an actual vampire use it to free their ghouls or to break any blood bonds that they themselves might be subjected to?

>>96010718
You could probably map which clan has the best lays by their innate disciplines and clan weaknesses.
>Auspex
Hypersensitive
>Animalism
Can drive you into a wild/frenzied fuck
>Celerity
Finishes quickly
>Dominate
Demanding partner
>Fortitude
The stay hard/keep going all night
>Potence
That pelvic/throat control...
>Presence
Can make you feel things you didn't know you could
>Obfuscate
Forgettable and unsatisfying
>Protean
Are the wild/frenzied fuck
Ventrue weakness already mentioned
New tremere weakness makes me think they'd get clingy Fast(which might not be different from their pre-embrace nerd behavior)

>>96010718
>Well of course, they have Fortitude as an in-clan discipline
So do the Gangrel
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=52i14wYBef8

>>96010744
>Forgotten Thaumaturgy
That's a storyteller vault book anon, AKA it's someone's Homebrew,without even paradox's barely existing editing or quality control, in a nice package.

>>96010748
>>Presence
>Can make you feel things you didn't know you could
I knew investing in Presence was worth it.
Maybe I should learn some fortitude now...

>>96010712
Wanting someone who isn't disgusting gutter trash isn't a fetish.

>>96010748
>Vicissitude
Will truly become one with you.

>>96010760
Learning the discipline doesn't give you the bonus. Only innate in-clan disciplines do.
A brujah isn't going to stop having ED just because he learned fortitude later, he can only blame his sire for knowingly cursing him.
Meanwhile the female Toreawhores are earning their name...

>>96010748
>Serpentis
Say hemepeni!

>>96010768
I think anon was going for things a normal human can do that the clan traits give you more talent in. A tzimisce slut would probably be contortionist flexible and show you all kinds of new positions.

>>96010748
>Necromancy
Cold, Rank and Gross.

Giovanni in particular make sex unfun

>>96010802

>>96010748
>Chimerstry
Makes you feel sensations you wouldn't believe, but when you open your eyes, they're already out the door

>>96010802
>Painful kiss
If that transfers over, then they must be a family of hardcore sadomasochists

>>96010814
Also they took your wallet, your car keys, and your car. Fucking Ravnos.

>>96010769
>female Toreawhores are earning their name...
>>96010748
>Auspex
Hypersensitive
>Celerity
Finishes quickly
>Presence
Can make you feel things you didn't know you could
Honestly seems like the clear winner, or at least one half of them. The guys in the clan though...

>>96010748
>Daimonion
They're into all the worst, most depraved things you are and help you discover more(Warning: You Will hate yourself in the morning).

>>96010748
>Temporis
you've already cummed

>>96010842
In the future.

>>96010842

>>96010842

>>96010842
Biggest issue with Trujah is that while they're objectively superior(in bed), Bruwhores are easy to turn on while Trujah are almost never in the mood.

For me, it's sex with Kiasyd.
catpcha: trap w

>>96010748
>Dementation
>Mytherceria
Both make their clan good at one thing: Mind Break

>>96010748
>Obtenebration
Demands the light are out while you do it.
Keeps 'accidentally' touching your asshole in the dark. If you don't stop them early they'll go for Anal/Pegging without your consent.

>>96010892
I have weirdest deja vu, is this some pun or innuendo in language other than English?

>>96010882
>Dominate
>Mytherceria
>Obtenebration
>trap w
This anon's getting anally mindbroken

>>96001764
The Bouncer could be named after their actions so he is the Brutalist, the Smasher, or the Bludgeon. Or if there are witnesses then they can go for how he acts before and after so he would be Running Man or just Fight and Flight.

The binman is named after the evidence so it would be something like Bodybagger or Ripper. Could also be named the Obsessive or Stalker after evidence is found how much he focuses on targets.

>>96010748
Oh, ye of little imagination.

>Auspex
Knows your every kink, turn-on and sensitive spot at a glance. Forget your anus, it's your mind that's gonna get probed and drilled hard. Also shared orgasms.

>Celerity
Augments your dexterity, so say hello to being groped and teased in every part of your body all at once. That or jackhammer-tier pelvic thrusts.

>Dominate
Hello TPE.

>Obfuscate
Surprise sex, free use, exhibitionism

>>96010927
I do like the Bodybagger, I'll definitely take that one. For the Bouncer, I like the idea of the simple, low-syllable name that gets the point across but then I wonder if I should just stick with "Bouncer"? The media will probably be the ones giving him his name after he escapes from hospital after being injured in his first fight, it'd happen offscreen as far as the PCs are concerned because right now, he's just a guy who got hospitalised in a fight, it's not until he wakes up and stranges the nurse and escapes that he'd become a Slasher. "Bouncer injured outside Nightclub murders Nurse, escapes."

>>96008020
lost or dreaming

>>96010569
Honestly, I give at most like 50% of the blame to Werewolves.
An honorable peace wanting, literally a prince, high high-ranking Garou who was on his way to pacify the whole situation, got killed by Naga.
A fellow Silver Fang wanted the Werebears to resurrect him, but he was in a hurry and had little social skills and Werebears didn't resurrect it, the events spiraled out of control.
And when Werebears, alongside Wereboars, revenge attacked, not realizing it is a very stupid thing to do when the whole Garou Nation is agitated, there is a dead prince and not even an apology, the War of Rage started.
We know what happened afterwards, Garou Nation smahed the Werebears, Wereboars and Weresnakes to pieces.

You know what? Fuck it.
I'm gonna ignore this and let my players take armored t-rex with wings.
What could possibly go wrong?

>>96012048
I mean I'm sure they could still glide
Always cracks me up that the Woof gift for having wings that let you fly is locked to Hispo form. Like, I get that you're struggling to give Hispo a niche, but it's a bit ham-fisted

>>96010659
>>96010569
It's almost like it's a deeply regretted black mark on their history and a source of great shame for the entire Garou Nation. The War of Rage is meant to show as an example of how bad werewolves can be at their worst and how they can be misled in their fight for balance.

>>96012156
>It's almost like it's a deeply regretted black mark on their history and a source of great shame for the entire Garou Nation.
It'd be easier to believe that if the elders didn't insist up and down they dindu nuffin while threatening to rip your skull out of your asshole whenever you, a lowly pup, bring it up.

>>96012048
>Velociraptor
Screw you, 1997 ah book, they had quill knobs on their arms.

>>96010683
>Old-wod mummies are basically egypt -themed paladins fighting the forces of darkness.
How well do they fare against other splats? For example: does Necromany abruptly turn specters into a non-threat, or can specters be fun and challenging adversaries?

>>96011041
Anon refer to: >>96010769
Nobody is talking about what the discipline can do. The challenge is for what normal talents/drawbacks affinity for a discipline brings.

>>96012401
A mummy style necromancy can literally rewrite a spectre's nature, demeanor, passions, memories, etc, until they're so slavishly devoted to the necromancer that a vampire domitor would get jealous. They can also create Relics at will, devour the dark passions from wraiths and living people to generate willpower or sekhem for them, and ward entire building from the underworld.
Spectres, even elder spectres like mephwracks and pasiphae, are complete non-issues to mummy necromancers.
>Other splats
>Vampires
Celestial lets you where natural sunlight like clothes. Anything south of a tremere in their chantry or a salubrie soul-eater is ash
>Werewolves
Can fuck a mummy up in combat.
The mummy will then resurrect some time later, disgruntled by the inconvenience.
>KotE
Can permanently kill mummies by eating their Soul and can freely walk into the underworld to chase down mummies in their death cycle.
>Changelings
Dunno, doesn't really come up. They're better at learning True Names than mummies are
>Demons
Depends on the house.
Most demons are going to be at a serious disadvantage, mummies have a hekau called nomenclature that lets them learn people's True Names. Demons especially get Uber-fucked by this.
Slayer house demons on the other hand are the creators and masters of the wraith underworld. They can fuck a mummy up, necromancy or no.

>>96012448
Almost forgot: Earthbound demons also have a lore for eating souls, so they're one of the few being that can perma-kill mummies.

>>96012448
*sigh* Well, there goes that idea.
Thank your for the reply; very helpful.

Is there any content on Kiasyd Alchemy anywhere? The lore of the bloodline book is weirdly vague given VtM has a long and thorough catalogue of what each nightfolk's blood does to vampires(spread over multiple books, because of course it is).

>>96012206
That's how any conservative element reacts whenever you bring up a historical source of shame and regret. It's almost like one of the themes of Werewolf is escaping from generational cycles of abuse and hatred to create something better than what came before.

>>96012876
>le conservative
Ok tankie.

>>96012876
Every liberal element does the same thing when you point out historical events where they failed or fucked-up spectacularly(communists are famous for this). Hypocrisy and Anti-historical/Anti-Evidential Delusion isn't political, it's a fundamental part of human nature.

>>96012953
What? Conservative elements of societies that seek the conservation of their society and its culture and its traditions tend to be hostile towards critical interpretations of their society. In comparison, progressive elements of societies that seek the transformation of their society tend to be critical of and hostile towards their society's traditions and history. It's a basic understanding of politics.
>>96013037
I think you mean progressive elements, rather than liberal elements. Communism is famously illiberal, after all. The core difference is that conservative elements tend to disapprove of history that shows their society in a negative light, while progressive elements tend to disapprove of history that shows their proposed ideology in a negative light.
But you're right, I should have clarified in >>96012876 that I meant "a historical source of shame and regret for their society."

>>96013078
>Communism is famously illiberal, after all.
Yes, but we're talking about people that think anarcho-communism is real. The theoretical perfect anarch state is the most liberal you can possibly be, which is why the Anarchs sect in VtM was originally painted as the "good guys" in 1e before even WW hired writers self aware enough to start making fun of them.

Are changelings compatible with the digital web or does the stasis influence of it make it to banal for them?

Can there be digital fey? A computerized Arcadia?

>>96013143
Tech isn't inherently banal. There's an entire kith dedicated to magictech that's known for hanging out with the sons of ether(Knockers).
Getting into the digital web is absolutely something changeling would do... but how the fuck they do it is up in the air because I don't think any books go into it. I think it'd be a Wayfare effect with a complex Realm requirement though.

>>96013078
>words words words
Yeah sure, real communism has never been tried, whatever you say tankie.

>>96013119
Anarchy, yes. Communism, no. Any sort of collectivism was commonly lampooned and despised by White Wolf in their writing, see how the Weaver and the Technocracy and banality were shown as the next worst thing to an outright apocalypse. To the White Wolf writing team, being a cog in a greater machine was one of the worst fates that a person could ever suffer. Their ideal society is an anarchic one of absolute personal freedom where no one is beholden to anyone else in any shape or form, which goes against the collectivist principles of communism or even anarcho-communism.

>>96013143
Plenty of Changelings make use of the web so it's certainly possible. You can even use Chicanery on computers with enough points in Props.

>>96013143
The digital web is probably a massive source of glamour given the overwhelming piles of raw creative works and memes, the fact 99.999...% are terrible doesn't matter as much as the fact they're new ideas and creative expressions from young/stupid people.

>>96013143
the problem is not the digital web itself the problem is that the alpha predator there the virtual adepts all have the highest amount of banality possible because they refuse to acept that changelings are even real on a level that even technocrats don't go to because while technocrats say they shouldn't exist while virtual adepts flat out say they exist at all and a mage's banality is based on how fae fit into their worldview

which is kinda funny if you think about it because these guys are the closest with the sons of ether and etherites meanwhile turn knockers into waifus

>>96013143
Any algorithmic aspect of the internet is likely banal and partaking too much of it would be a bad idea for a changeling. Social media, short-form content, AI image and text generation and so on.
Long-form content and any sort of creative expression, in terms of visual or audible art or programming (without the aid of AI tools) could serve as great sources of glamour, like >>96013204 suggests.

>>96013173
>>96013190
>>96013204
Has anyone ever tried to play a digital obsessed changeling?
Maybe a changeling thought he he could offset costs of his cantrip by using ideas from the internet as an offset. Dreaweaving video game characters to reality, getting on a WoW roleplay server and sapping some glamor from there, partioning soem part of the DW to make it look like a fantasy world as a hangout spot/alternative Bridge to Arcadia.

Hell with how ignorant most people are when it comes to technology imwould be surprised if "Machine Elves" become a real form of techno-kith

>>96013143
TL;DR: The digital web is basically a high-risk, high reward zone.
On one hand, You basically have direct access to humanity's collective imagination, which would make the greatest balefire look like a spark in comparison.
On the other hand, the web is also full of super-predators in the for of VAdepts and Weaver Spiders, whose raw banality would make an autim person seem like an artistic genius in comparison.
Are ya' feeling lucky punk?

>>96013143
if i remember correctly there was atleast one slaugh who lived inside of shrecknet as in the digital web dimension of the vampire forum

but i can't find the source for that right now

>>96013235
>Machine Elves
That's literally what Knockers are.

>>96013290
Wrong kind of machine elves.

>>96013235
I haven't but I'd like to play a hackerman Sidhe of House Dougal some day

>>96013314
>I'm going to hack into the system
>*presses random button*
>*No, like, literally random buttons. There's no rhyme nor reason nor logic to it, for her bunk she just needs to appear to be "hacking"*
>I'M IN!

I wonder how Etherites feel now that modern physics has basically accepted luminiferous ether as a thing, but re-branded it as "Field Theory"(literal only change is that fields aren't a fluid).

while we have a lot a hermetic infernalist and the celestial chorus had a entire infernalist break away faction in the dark ages how do you think the other traditions infernalist would look like? just to be clear i am more interested in just mages who deal with demons take investments and such instead of full nephandi

>>96013353
they probably take it as another sign that their paradigm is the true one just like when the union couldn't disprove dark matter

>>96012453
Destruction of the soul doesn't do shit to Mummies. You can drop them to the Oblivion and they will still come back. Some prick eating their soul will not do anything.

>>96013368
that got nerved in revised there kuei jin are explictly called out as being able to kill them because they can eat souls. Might be because of the different spell of life or it might be a retcon

>>96013356
>Dreamspeakers(and verbena, because they're discount dreamspeakers)
are easy. They're just normal wyrm cultists.
>Akashics
are probably the hardest since their entire think is self-power. Making deal with external forces is literally contrary to their paradigm.
>Chakravati
just need to worship slightly more evil death gods(and then get shot by the normal chakravati because they're experts at policing that shit).
>Virtual Adepts
would be exactly the same. Linux programs are literally called "Daemons".
>Son's of Ether
Could look like anything. They don't really have a unified paradigm, just an eclectic mix of magictech paradigms.
I'm probably forgetting one, but if I am they probably aren't important.

>>96013380
Source? Because it is hard to believe eating it does anything when fucking Oblivion can't keep them down.

>>96013356
>Etherites
Demon-engines. Grabb and imp and stuff them in a wonder
>VA
Digital horrostories made real. Websites that take your soul, monsters that stalk you through the internet, email curses.
>Estactics
Pleasure cultists
>Akashics
Tantric Buddhism. A mean of enlightenment through elevation of selfish aspects. Think Asura

>>96013363
*the original etherites paradigm
A lot of modern etherites don't even believe in either. The SoE has been the dumping ground for assorted weird science/magic-science paradigms for a long time now.

>>96013399
MtR Corebook page 145

>>96013390
>>96013400
thanks for the answers, gonna help me a lot

>>96013403
you are right sorry. I keep to defaulting to the traditions books for some reason despite them being pretty outdated these days

>>96013467
M20 references them, so they're not technically outdated. They're just in a weird quantum state of canon and not-canon depending on what's convenient for the current writer.

>>96012874
>VtM has a long and thorough catalogue of what each nightfolk's blood does
Really? Where? V20 just says it might have some effect and leaves it there.

>>96013430
That's just nothing burger, at best to make Mummy players take them more seriously. Mechanically, the only way to perma kill a Mummy is to erase their existence. Mages can do it, of all Vampires, I can only confidently say Ravnos Methuselah can do it (since they can erase things out of existence).
Kuei-jin has nothing like that I know of.

>>96013399
>>96013430
it should also be mentioned that in Mtr the maelstrom shreddered most mummy souls and their afterlife despite one of the fallen being able to fight through the entire storm in the fiction of the dtf corebook

rules wise mummies are stronger in that edition, but their immortality has been heavily nerfed

What's the difference between the mummies from 1st and 2nd and the Mummies that got their own game in Revised? Which is the more powerful of the two?

>>96013587
>1e/2e mummies
The Shemsu-Heru, the ancient mummies that got the original flavor spell of life. They're the actual sorcerer-priests of ancient egypt that've been alive since osiris was "just" a normal pharoh. Hekau is literally just the sorcerer paths from back then.
Their magics are very limited though. Their hekau cap at 5, theyy can only regenerate Ba by dying, and only have 10 Ba max. When their Ba hits zero, they Die and have to regather Ba in the underworld before they can resurrect.
They're giga-immortal, nothing can permanently destroy their body south of being ground-zero where a nuke is dropped. There souls were thought to be immortal, but the 6th great maelstrom proved that underworld nukes do the same thing to their souls that material nukes do to their bodies.
>Revised mummies
The Amenti are modern people resurected with the new and improved version of the spell of life. They have a shard from one of the shattered Shemsu-Heru souls imbedded in them and become a fusion-dance version of both people.
These guys are Way more powerful. They get more juice from Ma-at in general, their maximum power in attributes and Hekau is higher, and they can regenerate sekhem without having to Die first. They even resurrect faster since they don't have to gather Ba, meaning they could be back in action the next day after getting murdered by a werewolf pack.

>>96013668
Man, this sounds super cool but never ever heard of mummies in WoD, always seen Mage, Vamps and Werewolfs but never ever mummies. I guess they fall into the same bucket as Wraiths?

>>96013794
Wraiths, Changelings, Wan Kuei, Fallen Angels, Humans with Numen, etc. all pretty much got swept under the rug in later revised. Didn't even get their own ToJ books.

>>96013834
Can Changeling be a sacrafice to WW to better the next 5E book? I don't see much loss in CHangeling dying

>>96013951
We already tried sacrificing mummy, demon and KotE to make the WoD20 books better, and that failed completely. Mage is also The Book that WW fucks up worse every edition and WW was resurrected just in time to write the next one...

>>96013992
Oh no...
I suppose thta it would be a surprise to have a good book after the last one wasa flop (apperently)

>>96013992
>Whitewolf hated Mage so much they resurrected from the fucking Dead just so they could personally fuck up the next corebook.
That's actually kinda metal.

>>96014005
Everything since V5 was a flop financially. Many forget, but H5 wasn't received any better than the new werewolf was. There was just time afterward for tempers to cool and W5 was so much Worse that H5 looked better retroactively.

>>96014082
H5 was entertainingly bad. W5 was just really fucking bland.

>>96012316
>fell for the chickenraptor hoax award

>>96014082
I see, I wish the modern ones so far were a little better. I'm hopeful for whats to come. Good thing the internet is a common thing now and most people, don't have to buy the books and can check them for free.
I hope this TTRPG becomes the Warhammer of TTRPGs, where they are loosing money and still pretending everything is allright

>>96014127
Daaaammmnnnn never read a Werewolf book but always read about how good was the 20th one.

>>96014150
don't underestimate the chicken

>>96014165
Funnily enough, Werewolf isn't very good either. It had some great stand-outs like the expanded book of the wyrm and shatter dreams, but it also had a lot of complete fuck-ups like the pre-emergency-edit changing ways 20th and a number of small retcons that completely break the lore. It was a mixed bag, but it looks Amazing in comparison when held up next to WoD5.

>>96012048
>Velociraptors and Tyrannosauruses cannot fly
>Literally the bodyplan of All Fucking Birds AKA RAPTORS
What idiot wrote this?

>>96014222
What happened with Changing Ways that required emergency edits?

Also, which specific retcons you're talking about?

>>96014222
>Changing Ways is bad

No surprise, it was fucked up by order of Paradox. Shattered Dreams was "merely" declared noncanonical, not that it means anything in the context of how terrible WoD5 is (who would want to be canonical to that pile of crap?)

>>96014267
>how terrible WoD5
Did they just fuck up the lore or also the mechanics?

>>96014247
Multiple Severe balance issues, like a rank 2 lupus gift that made their attacks undodgable, blockable or Soakable, A rank 1 gift that turns off half the status effect gifts in the game, An aroun gift that let you roll Charisma + Intimidation + Rage vs enemy willpower to send them all running, etc.
Half the gifts in the fucking book had to be nerfed, but instead of releasing Errata like in previous editions, they tried to hide the fuckup by replacing the drivethrurpg download link without telling anyone. This means there are earlier version of changing ways floating around and being used at tables without the ST knowing it was Errata-ed.

>>96014242
Old writeups for Archid traits were written in the 90s by someone who seems to have mostly a lay understanding (or care) about prehistoric reptiles in general. See also: the back sail trait attributed to Dimetrodon, a pelycosaur aka an ancestor or close relative to the ancestors of mammals from the Permian (not reptilian, and too old for modern Mokole to access).

>>96014306
He does seem to have read the speculative fiction about troodon people, so I'm not all mad.

>>96014247
Retcons liek the Avatar Storm affecting Garou, Garou in a locale adopting the policy of mandatory bearing of Crinos-born by all female sept-members (something that the prior developer for the longest time had not done because of the obvious rape camp parallels), the use of First Tongue from Forsaken creeping in as a prelude to Paradox smashing the two games together in the dumbest possible way, and Garou sounding like fundamentalist christians with the "Gaia doesn't make mistakes!" line... it was a shitshow, just absolutely.

>>96014328
That said, the Quintaglio of Robert J Sawyer's creation also incorporated a number of grab-bag "reptile" traits that likely wouldn't have gone together, such as the limb regeneration (so readily done that they cut off limbs rather than stay stuck to something). The dinosaur to which their ancestor is attributed was also a nomen dubium for a young T. rex. There's a lot of stuff that hits you hard as Science Marches On in just the first book.

>>96013502
Like I said, Spread out in multiple books
>Changeling and garou blood
Detailed in the revised storytellers companion.
Each blood point from a werewolf increases your difficulties for frenzy, but spending a ww bloodpoint for any reason also gives you a number of extra successes on all strength rolls and extra actions on the same turn you spend that blood(as if you spent blood on potence/celerity that stack with actual potence/celerity). Werewolf blood basically turns you into a super-brujah.
Changeling blood instantly enchants you for as long as its in your system, which can be an issue since oldest blood is spent first. It also causes vampires to experience all the negative effects of Bedlam since it was an uncontrolled glamour enchantment.
>DA: Fae
Detail in dark ages fae. Each court of the seasons causes a different effect. Good luck getting any in modern time though.
>Mages
As normal humans as in V20 unless they alter themselves somehow. The effects altered mage aren't explain except in 2e vampire, where it explains altered mages have paradox flaws and drinking their blood gives a vampire a paradox rating + instant backlash.
>Psychics
It's in 2e vampire. Drinking from a psychic gives you that psychics powers, but with the uncontrolled version of the "wild Talent" flaw. Wild talent also makes the power Stronger, meaning that it hits much harder when the ST uses it to fuck with you.
No other human numina can be inherited this way except:
>Gypsies
The Danea have inherent blood gifts and genetic access to sorcerous paths thanks to the juice from the tree of knowledge in their blood. Vampires that drink it can theoretically access these powers, but wouldn't even know it unless they were already a trained gypsie or sorcerer in life.
[1/2]

>>96014436
[2/2]
>Wraiths
You can actually get wraith/spectre ichor, it's just unreasonably hard. Directly consumed, it functions like normal bloodpoints, except that it can't be used to awaken at the start of the night. If fed to plants, it creates a drug that basically acts like a changeling enchantment, but for the underworld/shadowlands
>Demons
No special properties other than drinking it causing your aura to read as infernalist. All it does is fuck you over.

>>96014436
>>96014447

Vampires: Rogue from the X-Men, but with blood!

>>96014127
I wish W5 was just bland. W5 is disappointingly bad.

Give me your best (re: worst) ideas for a World of Darkness game where you play as an Invisible Man

>>96014470
All but 3 of those fuck you up in their own special way. Good luck harvesting woof blood, but I can definitely see the tremere building human trafficking operation that kidnaps psychics and gypsies just so they could access some of their old sorcery.

>>96014711
Rogue can also get fucked up draining powers.

>>96014744
Rogue can also get fucked by me :D
Alright, that’s enough /co/ for today, I swear.

>>96014706
>WoD Invisible Man
Isn’t that just any Vampire with Obfuscate 2+, though? Or a Mage with Forces 2 OR Mind 2 OR Entropy 3?

>>96013951
HtR and DtF both have a lot less going for them than CtD does. I could easily say goodbye to both and not bat an eye.

>>96014931
You already did. Demon never got a 20th and H5 is a hunters hunted supplement with the "reckoning" tag awkwardly stapled on.
The demons governing WoD demand another sacrifice anon. What are you willing to pay this time?

>>96014706
The Curse of Gyges. It starts out cool but then keeps removing more consequences from your existence until you're in the Abyss.

>>96014868
Obfuscate is a mental filter, it doesn't work on recordings until higher levels, and even then the filter decays over time.

actually all mages are wrong as you can't actually use magic but only instruct the symbiotic extradimensional entity that has bonded with you to do these things for you.

no you are not gaining increasing magical powers you are just getting better and better at communicating with it, no your rituals are not the actual cause of "your" magick working it's just a form of charades that let's the entity know what to do.

this is why killing it removes your ability to use magick!

>>96015116
>t. dreamspeaker

>>96015116
>you can't actually use magic
>Completely forgot about the numena all humans can also use

>>96015116
Nice work anon, Sounds like a nice variation of the "All the Power Comes from God(s)"

>>96015178
believe it or not but that is also caused by extradimensional entites that have entered into symbiosis with you it's just that they have fully merged with you so there is no need for communication

>>96008847
They have it on the exact same site as this one (free content on the World of Darkness official website)

>>96015087
VtM is and always will be the one that can be cut. Beyond it's initial premise, it does not need to be expanded upon. "Here are these clans and they hate each other but also work with each other." Cool, one core book is all that's needed. It fits in least with the other games anyway.

>>96015116
That's exactly how my ST handled Sorcery in our previous campaign.

>>96014651
Didn't they already fleshed out how space werewolves would work?

Fellow Tremere, is it worth it getting some kind of raven/owl to serve as host for my spirit familiar, or should I just get a cat/dog like everybody else?

>>96015703
It might be in the CoD scifi shard. Meant for Forsaken, but since that smashed into Apocalypse to get stitched together into the reanimated corpse that is W5, it's probably still more sensible than this "pay extra to do what you could normally do in past editions" loresheet.

I just realized that the character concepts for the Mokolé game my friends and I are planning are very "gender agnostic."
Should we make them all Alpha Reptile shonen protagonists with kinfolk harems? Or should we make them all Sexy Reptile bitches?

>>96014331
>garou being affected by the avatar storm

It doesn't even make sense as an optional rule because the storm specifically targets mages, wtf were they thinking...

It's the night of the 4th of July, and American Santa brings gifts. First come, first served, but you must state your clan and write "Thank you, America!" in your reply.
Choose:
-5 dots of Presence
-5 dots of Protean
-5 dots of Potence
-1 AR-15, infinite ammo
-an intelligent eagle, can obey your orders

>>96015980
Unrelated but that gets me thinking. Do Mokolé have a gift for parthenogenesis?

>>96016023
5 Dots of Presence
I am a human extraordinary citizen and they didn't include the path of fascination in the training seminar. Thank You, America!

>>96016094
Yes. It's mentioned in the body of benefits for having Whiptail Lizard as a patron spirit (in the breed book).

>>96016019
Because the Vampire stans in charge of WoD5 only comprehend a very niche corner of Vampire, and see access to the Umbra as a problem. The most immediate way to address the "problem"? Avatar Storm.

Except that Garou don't have bastions in outer space and other distant locales to take focus entirely off of what's going on in the real world. The entire idea behind W:tA is to be in spirit and in flesh, not to fuck off to Horizon forever because you're So Enlightened.

>>96008162
Damn, sorry to hear that Anon. Did it at least get a finale session?

>>96008907
I've never felt as if the physical disciplines were boring. What they do is simple, sure, but if you can't find fun and creative uses for superhuman strength, speed, and toughness, it's a skill issue.

>>96016094
They get two forms of parthenogenesis. This one >>96016346
And a Zhong Lung flaw that allows your Mokolé to get females pregnant by just bathing in the same waters as you, drinking from your cup or touching your clothes. This is not the typical parthenogenesis but it werks.
I think you can also have females impregnate other females.

>>96016489
>Zhong Lung flaw
For a dying race, this seems like is solves a Shit-Ton of issues...

Has anyone checked out the Black Spiral Dancers tribebook released on the Storyteller's Vault? Is it good?

>>96014436
Reading this shit gives me weird ideas. I remember a kind of blood alchemy from the "House of Tremere" called humors. The tremere were trying to make potions that work on vampires, but they ran into the issue that you couldn't just mix vamp blood with ingredients and drink it, you had to pump it into a blood doll and drink it out of Them like all other drugs.
This would explain why kiasyd alchemy is so trash, they're blindly mixing martinis with already magical blood. Them mixing it doesn't do shit, the blood is just magical enough by itself to have Some effects even though they're missing the necessary blood-doll step.
Also: Does this mean you could use exotic blood-dolls to stack effects? Drink some changeling blood to turn it into glamour-tainted, pump that shit into a psychic, and drink him while he's tripping balls off a combo vitae+glamour high. Wouldn't the blood now be both fairy And psychic?
Also, why did the tremere just leave this info untouched in their library and let the kiasyd take credit for shit they discovered in the medieval?
By extension, why are all the cool and unique paths and rituals for tremere thaum locked in cold storage while the clan at large only gets the generic shit literally Every Other blood magic tradition does as well?

>>96016683
They aren't locked in cold storage. They're locked in cold storage for *you,* neonate.

>>96016489
I don't think that really counts

>>96016717
>The ventrue elder looks in confusion at the malkavian jester he was just complaining to

>>96015924
>It might be in the CoD scifi shard.
Either that or the Cyberpunk Guide.
>>96014651
Besides her First Change being very contrived and how they could have avoided that shit with a Spirit intervention or Talisman, the lore sheet is fine, but it does feel like it should be tied to one other thing, like the Beast Courts.

>>96015904
It mostly depends on if you can actually use as a drone with your magic and if it is worth the attention.

How often do you learn about a canon character and your immediate reaction is "I do not find this character remotely plausible"?

>>96016513
I think it's meant more of a narrative thing. It doesn't even say whether the children will be kinfolk, mokolé or none so I assume it's left up to the ST. Which could actually be interesting, since the ST could either give you a bunch of Renown for it or make it backfire and create Innocents.
>>96016747
I mean... it is a form of virgin birth.

>>96016791
There's an elder vampire that got cured of vampirism by an archmage and somehow got to keep all their vampire powers and immortality, but without any weaknesses.

>>96016023
5 dots of Protean
I am All

>>96016791
I really don't give a shit about signature characters so... about once a year when a screenshot is posted here.

>>96016818
Not just signature characters, I mean any motherfucker who features in a book as an established character in a plot.

>>96016023
Malkavian, but before I accept the rifle, is using cheats going to affect my score?

>>96016840
You can't get on the leaderboards with cheats enabled. That's just basic game design.
However, taking down that Fucking Bullshit World Boss with god-mode on is cathartic as hell.

>>96016847
Matchmaking won't let you compete in the world leaderboards after acquiring a nightfolk class anyway. The supernatural leaderboards aren't populated enough to matter on this server, you'll need to move to one of the hardcore servers in the "Umbra" network to get anywhere.

>>96016489
Fertile Essence isn't even remotely parthenogenesis so much as it is a mystical cuck aura. If anyone touches your stuff? Cucked. Use the same bath? Cucked. Fought against them in combat? Cucked. As an ST, I'd veto it on the grounds that I don't want to have magic NTR in the campaign.

>>96016439
>Damn, sorry to hear that Anon. Did it at least get a finale session?
Nope. It unceremoniously ended after we raided and attempted to set fire to an old hotel which the local Leviathans were using as a base. We never even got to find out what impact (if any) the raid had.

>>96016820
not gonna lie, the fact that I skip most of the lore blurbs is really showing now. I guess the last daughter of Eve was kind of bullshit, but that's about the only one I remember outside the meme ones.

>>96016869
The season rewards sounded like trash anyway and I hear people are still having issues receiving them.

>>96016940
>As an ST, I'd veto it on the grounds that I don't want to have magic NTR in the campaign.
Cucked.

>>96016966
>Wrong Meme
Somehow cucked himself

>>96016966
>Wrong Meme
Somehow cucked himself

>>96016813
Yeah that one is pretty egregious. I tend to be far harsher, there's a lot of random-ass elders that I do not believe actually would have lasted as long as they evidently have.

>>96016948
I just like reading old books for ideas so I often come across canon characters as a result.

>>96016999
>I just like reading old books for ideas so I often come across canon characters as a result.
The faction books give good ideas for what each faction is supossed to feel like in terms of character concepts

>>96015904
owls are amazing because they are also a symbol of wisdom and call back to ars magica (where the order of hermes like to larp as greco romans so they have the whole athena mineva thing) but a raven is only really worthwhile if you also do necromancy

>>96016791
i think the worst one is still the humanity 8 kyasid necromancer who is friends with garou and fae, a member of inconnu but still somehow sabbat

>>96017029
Necromancers get zombies and wisecracking skull familiars. Ravens are for Odin themes or when you want a talking animal without the implication it used to be people.

>>96017053
>humanity 8 kyasid necromancer who is friends with garou and fae, a member of inconnu but still somehow sabbat

who the fuck? what book is this guy in?

>>96017073
>https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Bartholomew
Storytellers Handbook to the Sabbat

and i misremembered it's humanity 9

>>96017070
odin in wod is a major necromancer guy could raise entire armies of zombies strong enough to fight the get fenrir tribe and could proxy embrace per necromancy spell

>>96017085
What the fuck he even has a VTES card.

How did I not know about this OC donut steal motherfucker...

>>96017099
he only has a very short role in a very short adventure where the players just ask him two questions and then leave

his whole multisplat bodyguard squad is only there so your sabbat players won't drain him for that 6th gen juice

>>96017104
how silly

>>96017029
Good argument. Owl it is.

Reminder to all Hunter the Parenting fanboys

BIG D IS A FRAUD

>>96017247
Alphabusa is a hack

Is there any mechanical impact if your Riddle Phantastique is recognizable as Cotton Eye Joe lyrics?

>>96017261
I don't think so but the one time we had someone using Riddle Phantastique it was always stuff you could google and a different player used to mock this relentlessly.

>>96017251
I'm going to be honest I don't think Alfabusa is really the one running the show anymore. He's just the poster child. I think it's mostly Speaker D running the show for HtP and as a result his unnatural urge to loredump about oWoD lore is rapidly creating plot holes and issues.

>>96017070
that's fair i forgot about odin, but i think there are two factors that put ravens lower on the list for tremere:
>tremere never managed to establish a norse chantry despite trying to
>odin's ravens in wod are spoken for by the corax who describe themselves as the sun's/helios best pals
still not a bad choice, but i prefer owls and in general every sorcerer who has something else but a cat as familiar is a plus
>>96017194
my favorite familiar was a Black-banded owl who insisted it was named steven, had some night and darkness powers i think based on the sorcery path but it's been a long while so it could also have been spirit gifts

>>96017277
Was Speaker D the one who did the autistic screeching when some other youtuber told him that GW would eventually come for them but now pretends that's not the case because turns out it actually happened?

>>96017287
I have no idea about any of that, Speaker D is the one who voices Big D and keeps putting deeplore dogwhistles in where they really don't belong.

>>96017277
yeah hunter the parenting has supposedly 4 writers and Alfabusa is just one of them

>>96017278
>my favorite familiar was a Black-banded owl who insisted it was named steven,
Was that a familiar you got through the Bind the Familiar ritual?

>>96017303
yeah. I think we talked about that before

>>96017269
Like he only knows the ones in The Hobbit but not really the concept and where to go from there?

>>96017320
Nah like he'd use the kind of riddles you'd find in a book of riddles. Never used the Sphinx one but things in that vein.

>>96017193
early wod has it's gonzo moments

What level of the Pyramid do I need to reach to have my face serve as Meerlinda’s throne?

>>96017383
could be any. Etrius personal council/coterie (which is the only one described) includes: a pontifex, a lord of the second circle, a lord of a unknown circle and a apprentice of the 7th circle who pretends to be a ghoul to spy on other tremere for him

>>96017381
I feel like the term gonzo is becoming a euphemism for "poorly written" and it shouldn't be.

Early WoD may have contained silly shit, but it also contained a lot of remarkably grounded stuff that had a nice, raw edge to it and a bit of poetry. I know it gets brought up a lot but the tone of the VtM 1e core is immaculate. It's the tone I try to capture in my own games even though there's a lot of later lore I incorporate.

>>96017297
Four writers would explain the exponential amount of characters and plot threads as of late.

>>96017251
I had no problem with them until I learned it was their fault newfags have started using dogshit WoD5 terms like "blankbody" and "org".

I'm going to finally understand what 40k fags were bitching about if they spawn a generation of zoomers who take their opinions as gospel.

why would anyone put 1-3 dots into Generation? The slight increase in blood pool doesn't seem particularly worth it without more blood-per-turn to go with it

>>96017459
if you want to use a celerity or thaum heavy character it can make difference

generation is also often used for roleplay so that your sire will be lower generation and likely older as well

did they ever explain why generation limit also works for skills? like what is it in a 5th gen's blood that makes them (potentially) better at occultism or driving a car than a 6th gen and above?

>>96017500
>did they ever explain why generation limit also works for skills?

I also have this problem with generation. It uncapping vampire powers is one thing, but uncapping mundane things definitely undermines my immersion. Not to mention it exacerbates the problem of superhumanly intelligent elders that act like idiots.

It's why I understand why V5 wanted to cap things back to five dots even if I think they executed it horribly, like everything V5 does.

>>96017500
Vampires are essentially Humans Plus. They seem to be created to replace humans as a dominant species and reduce them to cattle. So a low-gen vampire masters abilities beyond what normal people can do because they're superior humans.
I'm starting to believe Cain's curse was actually a botched attempt by to God to reward him.
Maybe that's why Fallen and Lucifer hate their guts. Even Lilith dislikes them since her endgame is to eliminate them all, with those who aid them being turned into something else.
My schizo theory is that Lucifer and Lilith's romance isn't over, and when they were together Lucifer conceived of giving humanity Avatars with Lilith becoming the first and most powerful Oracle. The plan was for her to teach humanity how to use that power to defend themselves.

>>96017500
Caine was blessed by angels/god as much as he was cursed. He became something other than human.

>>96017500
Think of the skill cap increase as an extension of the Int or Str boosts. At a certain point the blood is good enough to store superhuman skill. If that sounds kind of boring, you could also explain it as the beast helping the vampire.
Neither of these are canon as far as I know.

>>96017528
>>96017551
>>96017569
if i combine
>Vampires are essentially Humans Plus
>Caine was blessed by angels/god as much as he was cursed. He became something other than human.
>you could also explain it as the beast helping the vampire.
lower gen canites would become something akin to a more primal anti armenti with the best replacing the tem-akh and i think i like that

Lilith captured Caine in her garden to experiment with the sevenfold curse, see what was considered harm and what was deemed responsible for causing it and how retribution was delivered, to get more insight into angel logic and how to work miracles herself. Caine broke himself into a thing that could escape.

>Vampires can increase strength with exp even though they can't grow new muscles because they are getting supernaturally stronger
>BUT NOT CHILDREN
no plans on having child vampires in my chronicles but this is fucking retarded and stupid, or are you telling me a nigga like Ur-Shulgi has strength 2?

>>96017707
npcs never seem to use that flaw. Shulgi doesnt have it, the girl from montreal by night doesn't have it, the THREE kid vampires in vienna by night don't have it and so forth and also have stats above 2

>>96017247
He's a mummy actually.

>>96012874
lore of bloodline is the first and last book that mentions the idea.
it's a valiant effort to make kiasyd more than just bookworms, but it's a bit of a case of too little too late

>>96017500
Could be several reasons.

Caine's blood is from the days of Primordial Humans, before the whole shattering thing happened. You can argue the lower the generation, the closer you are to those primordial humans even if you are cursed.

Or you can say that the closer to Caine you are, the closer you are to God.

Or maybe it's just the curse potency and effects increasing as you get closer to Caine. Afterall all Disciplines get their effects by utilizing the Curse as a base. Like how Temporis uses the Stasis/Eternal aspect of the Curse to manipulate Time. Even Obtenebretation uses the Curse as a conduit to the Abyss.

>>96016683
>Also, why did the tremere just leave this info untouched in their library and let the kiasyd take credit for shit they discovered in the medieval?
>By extension, why are all the cool and unique paths and rituals for tremere thaum locked in cold storage while the clan at large only gets the generic shit literally Every Other blood magic tradition does as well?
part of it got lost in the gargoyle revolt, part of it get's hidden by the higher ups to control the lower ranking tremere and have something to entice them with and part of it is that they want to be just the right amount of spooky to the rest of the camarilla

out of universe it's of course because most dark age stuff was written later and it's the original source for most non tremere blood sorcery styles too so the tremere needed something to differentiate them there while when the final nights setting was first designed blood sorcery was only their thing

>>96017569
>could also explain it as the beast helping the vampire.
We find out from wraith and KotE that a kindred's beast is actually a degenerated version of their Shadow, and shadows are able to boost your dicepools when they're willing to cooperate.

>>96017247
Yeah that's kind of the point isn't it?>>96018525
So I guess that was the intention.

>>96017838
At some point you are better off doing a soft reboot to include this shit properly.

>>96010712
>Ventrue Prince
>secret tzimisce lover
why oh why is this always the case

>>96014193
you may laugh but in those countries they strap 5 inch razor blades to the chicken's spurs to make the cockfights deadlier

>>96018769
Because you need to be rich in order to be a patron of the arts and Ventru have Resources as an in clan Discipline.

>>96014651
I thought space was a conspiracy cooked up by the technocracy?

>>96018804
I know shit like that can happen but it still sounds hilarious.

>>96018813
It was until enough people believed in it.

>>96016489
why are the chink fera so based?
>you're fighting me? you're pregnant now
>you touched my stuff? you're pregnant now
>you and I swam in the same pool? pregnant NOW

>>96018813
Space is real, but it never went through the Shattering the way earth did. Trying to distinguish between deep space and the deep umbra in an exercise in hair-splitting.

>>96017838
>most dark age stuff was written later
My main issue is that despite all the other blood magic traditions being written in the same edition as the unique tremere rituals, only the other traditions were carried to modern nights while unique tremere magic is buried in obscurity.
Which gets even weirder when you look at how the tremere have some of the more overpowered bullshit. They have a potion that makes disciplines and blood magic Free for [successes] days.

>>96018840
Stargazers chose right when they gave up on the Nation.

New thread
>>96019029
>>96019029
>>96019029

>>96018769
I have never seen a case of this.

>>96015195
How is that any different from being able to use magic by yourself?

>>96017459
Many nasty abilities like Dominate key off of generational difference. It filters such things out of the way.
Furthermore, if you plan on diablerizing your way to power in the future, that's one less obstacle to the good stuff.