Pinned in place edition
Previous Heresy:
>>96018741>HH 3.0 Leakshttps://imgur.com/a/C7NLFxm
https://imgur.com/a/ThwkCe3
>New Edition Soonโขhttps://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>New to The Horus Heresy? Hereโs Everything Youโll Need to Get Startedhttps://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/30/new-to-the-horus-heresy-heres-everything-youll-need-to-get-started/
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8
https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS
>30k TACTICA & TIPShttps://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/2.0_Tactics/General_Tactics
>MEGAs are down for the time being, going to wait for things to cooldown with the new edition and leaks before bringing them back up ใAdeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialisใ
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloadshttps://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/
>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colourshttps://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview
>More listshttps://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions
>What size magnets do I need?5x1mm
>Tacticshttps://1d6chan.miraheze.orug/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics
>Thread Question:Now that's it's about to come up on the horizon how's the coping level?
>>96029059 (OP)Well it motivating me to work on my backlog so that's a good thing?
>>96029059 (OP)considering they fixed zero of the big flaws with 2.0 and added many new flaws, won't be touching 3.0 even once. Happy to eventually get plastic Mk II space marines for some variety, will get the box when it flops and goes 50% off on black friday because 3.0 is a hot mess and so it'll flop like skaventide
Newb learning all the ins and outs of HH, is it verboten to mix armor marks in your squads? I have a bunch of Iron and some Corvus, and plan on buying more Corvus and the new Crusade guys for my Word Bearers project.
>>96029059 (OP)I'm not really coping at all,the only negative so far in the new rules has been the killing things out of los in shooting and that was resolved in a 5 minute conversation with the group. Now we just wait to see what libers bring, but new list building is looking fun and it'll be a nice shake up.
>>96029059 (OP)>Now that's it's about to come up on the horizon how's the coping level?Pretty low on the cope. I wasn't expecting much and I'll need to get things in hand to really form opinions on stuff like how the models feel to build and paint.
I'm just wondering how soon until the libers leak now.
>>96028832FISH OF FURY.
>>96028917They are not sane because area terrain, and ONLY area terrain can provide cover. The most traditional of small terrain - scatter terrain/barricade type things do not actually provide cover, unless you rule that the half inch wide barricade is area terrain, in which case only the 1 model that can balance on top of it can (probably) claim cover.
Heavy terrain isn't the main problem although its also very cheesy that you can place an indirect fire unit in supercover(tm) and it can quite literally never be shot in any circumstance, other than other indirect units.
>>96029131All that negativity will put you in an early grave, chum
>>96029181God why is the best weapon they have the fucking underslung flamer? Was it really too much to ask for something between "plasma bb gun" and "kills one dude every 4 shots"?
>>96029171...shit, and they canโt be charged because you can't draw line of sight to them. Well, you have to get into base contact first.........
champ
md5: 765d5a57bbb2affbc693b7d9e5d8556d
๐
>>96029181If there are Saturnine centurion/consuls I might get one or two to mess with. Might make a couple terminator consuls too but I'd have to scrape together a lot of bits so probably not.
>>96029131Variety? It's the same five poses with split body, so tiresome
>>96029239Shiny sugar coated apple mhmmmm
Day One House Rules
>Terrain that obscures part of a model, though that model is not within terrain, may claim a cover save equal to the type of terrain that is partially obscuring it.
Examples include Barricades(5+), and other small "scatter" terrain (6+)
>>96029239>Saturnine centurion/consulsId wager very few, if any. They would get the Praetor gear. I don't expect them to get the arm guns.
>>96029059 (OP)put my name on the allocation list at my flgs, very excited to get my hands on the big dreadnought
>>96029228oh lawd, I forgot you need LOS to charge. Jesus fuck GW, we gonna have invincible quad gun units.
>>96029059 (OP)>coping level?Well, I'm excited for new models and projects. Worried that it's a gimmick edition over anything tactical enough for a game. Concerned about my knights and my drop pods. I felt like 2.0 was no fun allowed and too many hard counters (some deserved because of bad rules). I just want to make thematic lists and not have feast or famine games.
>>96029347Just don't rule anything as heavy cover if there's artillery. Invincible units is not intentional.
>you vs the marker she tells you not to worry about
are we still relying on new recute
>>96029181>5" move>Bulky 4So are Saturnine pigeonholed into deep striking with a Praetor? Assuming a Spartan carries 26 still.
>>96029388I guess the idea is to have 3 with double plasma and just mortar away all game
>>96029354the terrain rules in this edition are so bad you might as well just not rule anything as heavy cover period.
If a unit stands in heavy cover, you can't ever even charge or melee them as you can't ever get line of sight or move into base contact either. It's just a magical forcefield rest-stop even if artillery isn't involved.
"Oh no sanguinius got wounded? Stand in this heavy cover and take as many turns as you need to heal up or never give up any victory points by getting killed"
>>96029360Lol downgraded to a Conqueror Cannon. And you don't even get a sweet coaxial combi-bolter.
>>96029414I think LIgma is the only time GW has ever made good terrain rules
>>96029354I mean yes, I would just smash their rapiers into their smug face if someone tried to pull some dumb shit like this, but the fact that the rules very readily allow this is extremely cringe.
>>96029414Counter attack unit just waits in the bushes, completely immune to harm as the 12 justaerin pile out of a spartan and stand slack jawed outside
>>96029156It's mostly a yourdudes issue. As the Heresy grinds on you'd start to see it become less uniform.
>>96029239101% chance TS get their own special Saturnine Donutsteels
>>96029433I think everyone is getting a special saturnine unit as boring as that sounds.
>>96029156It can cause confusion if you have multiple units near each other. Moreso if they all get pulled into the same combat. Otherwise just make a system where you can easily distinguish who is in what squad
>>96029444does cherry-red require an airbrush? I was hoping to prime gold to skip the trimming phase but that doesn't work if I have to airbrush to get that juicy apple.
>>96029453No that was all brushed on.
Base metallic (gold for bright, brass for dark, do not use gunmetal)
Wash (don't forget like that one space wolf Anon)
Brush on clear red. Wait for every layer to dry. You can thin it down but if you're painting a small section between details you can glob it on. Be very careful with getting it onto other details because painting over it is a pain.
>>96029156No, its completely fine.
Even preheresy, armour was not uniform at the best of times.
Parts or whole suits would be swapped out as needed with what was available.
As the heresy dragged on, logistics become increasingly unreliable, and marines resorted to doing whatever was needed to ensure they simply had enough functional suits.
Looting corpses, making makeshift modifications, and mk.5 armour as a whole.
So a fresh squad of nerds newly recruited and sent out to the front might all have the same type of armour, but over time the odds of uniformity go down, as parts get damaged or soldiers replaced, you're increasingly likely to see more of a mix.
>>96029408And what of the Praetor? Just having him be a pain in the ass to kill? Maybe a Legion trait will make mobility less painful, but I suspect that would still hold him back from substituting a Cataphractii leader.
>>96029453For another way to do it, Saint Duncan brushes on Blood Angels Red - a contrast paint, on top of Retributor Armor spray. Though not overly glossy, it still infers a metallic look.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNETf50QWrM
>>96029484>And what of the Praetor? Just having him be a pain in the ass to kill?Basically. The melee weapons seem decent. You have to put it in a tank and lob it at someone because 60 points for deep strike seems bad.
>>96028917>>96029171>>96029228>>96029347These rules are so fucking retarded I'm getting an aneurysm.
How're you holding up, /hhg/? With all the news coming out, the leaks, and the new kits, I think it's time for a little reflection and check in. How are you doing? How are you thinking? Happy with stuff? Thoughts on the hobby?
>>96029131>We have heard the community about how Brutal weapons are too oppressive...>...so we're making Damage into a stat and giving it to several more weapon! :D>We also heard how the Weapon Skill chart makes Dreads too powerful and Mechanicum too weak...>...so we are making dreads WS4!>Speaking of Dreads, they are too resilient...>...so we are making Domitars just as resilient by giving them 2+ saves!>Did nobody ask for better plasma? Excellen! Increase their rate of fire and decrease their Armour Penetration capabilities!>And fuck World Eaters, just for fun!Bro don't be pessimistic - we just have to wait and see ;^)
>>96029291Does that not happen?
I'd rather make Heavy Terrain allow target units inside of it, but not units through it even if the "thickess" of it is less than 3". Otherwise it's a Barrage on Barrage combat
>>96029949The loss of 2 weapon attack bonus AND the charge bonus in exchange for pistol attacks so you can make your charge harder is such a fucking slap in the dick to melee.
Why do they have such a hard on for shooting? The game was already very shooting focused, but shooting army vs shooting army is the most boring shit possible.
>>96029951No, cover is retarded now.
Did 30k win or lose with 3.0?
>>96029156I usually use armour marks and minor bits of painting to differentiate units (eg. Vets have legion shoulders, seekers Mk IV, tacticals base MkVI), but there's nothing prohibiting it.
Just make sure you can tell what's what easily.
>>96029964>The loss of 2 weapon attack bonus AND the charge bonus in exchange for pistol attacks so you can make your charge harderI wanted to use pistols more :(
>>96029156Mixing in Mk2, Mk6, etc to be in your 20-man Tactical Squad from an aesthetics standpoint is perfectly legal (and if you're playing Shattered Legions, perhaps expected), it's just easier for everyone if it's all coherent. Model and/or paint infantry squad types accordingly for easier reading.
>>96030022now I can't say about whole of HH, all armies etc But my was based around three units of 20 despoilers and 3 units of terminators. with 4 contemptors and 2 leviathans (all melee) as support. I don't even know how to legaly play my army with the new FoC, and the rules themselfs seem to be very punishing for melee. And some changes seem to just be made out of spite. I have 4 dudes armed with power axs in each despoiler squads. Now those weapons are worse then a power sword, and it is not like the power sword is good.
>>96030143>20+ terminators>6 dreadnoughtsKill yourself cunt. HH doesnโt need your kind
>>96030114I don't know for me if a dude has a chainsword he is a despoiler, if he has a bolter he is tactical, if he has a lascanons he is HSS. I don't even see what armour type the dudes have, like most people. heck dudes could be running with w40k tacticals/assaults and no one would notice the difference, aside for hawk eyed painters.
>>9603017515 terminators, but I understand the mssg anyway. Non of my opponents had problems with my arms as the most long range weapons for my dudes were the 2 chest volkites on the leviathans.
>>96030114More than half of my tacticals don't even have a full set of the same mark of armour, let alone how each squad is organised.
I would have even fewer with a single mark of armour, but some of them are stripped mk.4 dudes.
>>96030175>sperging about melee only dreads and termies on footOf all the things to get on a high horse about anon, a dedicated melee list with fucking melee dreads of all things is pretty aylmao.
Also 60 knuckle draggers is already more basic infantry than half the armies I see.
>>96030182He's a fucking raging spurg who either can't read or doesn't understand that all the things people (rightfully) hate about dread spam simply don't apply if you're dedicated melee.
Also post pics, I want to see Your (cool) Dudes.
I know that with post Caliban, post scourging DA wings of the Hexagramaton either became a chapter of their own, with only the Ravenwing and Deathwing being present in all Legion succesor chapters. But what happened to the Hecatonistica, they mirrored the Hexagramaton and were a huge force armed with the most arcane and essoteric weapons DA could master. Was that part of the Legion moved to live on the Rock, or did they found their own secretive chapter/chapters after the scourging?
245 eurobux for Saturnine
>>960302181100zล ufff. 1/3 monthly salary. I think for the first time in warhammer history I am going to skip on the starter box, and limit myself to buying two boxs of mk2 and melee sprues to make more despoilers and a unit of flamer TSS, as it is the only TSS I have not build.
>>96030218Nice, I will have saved all of that.
>>96029198I know, right? The dual gun options are total shit, too.
>underpowered plasma mortars that ignore LoS, thus wasting the gargantuan premium you pay for those defensive stats>middling disintegrators that kill one of your hideously expensive guys every turn>need to remain stationary to fire both guns, but basically must DS on account of poor ranges, giving you at most three turns of actual shootingBut the afterthought gun stuck to the melee weapon? *That* one is absolutely fantastic and will mulch marines all day.
I hope to god my legion gets the option to switch guns for a storm shield like other terminators can.
>>96030218Nice, just half of a resin 3D printer.
I got Betrayal at Calth for 129,99 EUR in 2018. Just for reference.
Buy stocks, not models and definitively never buy rule books. That is for chumps.
If the resin model for paladin has a shield and sword,, but you don't want to use non plastic models, then can you run him without the shield ?
>>96030322only butthurt autists enforce WYSIWYG
>>96030322GK terminators have empty left hands. Then just glue a shield to his vambrace.
>>96030218>>96030287>mfw it costs barely an afternoon's worth of hoursGod I love being Swiss.
>>96030483even with 10k per month the boxprice is nuts. Or should I say, a luxury expense.
>>96030218>tfw 2 years worth of ebay rescues Not today James, I shall not partake
>>96029737>new modelsOverall huge success and couldn't be happier that legion super heavies, breachers, and new assaults are all confirmed. Saturnine are freakish but I can live with it
>rulesBorderline incomprehensible. I'll wait for them to be distilled by others, and will not be paying for them.
>fatigueThis spoiler season has been fucking exhausting. I blame GW entirely for poor expectations management. I will feel a tangible relief once I see a Liber and know how the fuck my army builds will look
>>96030570Considering all the round plasma weapons we've been getting in Heresy, what are the chances we'll get a Legion Stormblade with a tube barrel instead of a flat board?
I feel like the new edition just wont be fun to play and will constantly be compared to 2nd
>>96030582Zero unless you build one yourself. We'll get the fellblade/glaive kit and a falchion at a later date. Solar Aux will get the ligma baneblade and shadowsword
>>96029949>>We have heard the community about how Brutal weapons are too oppressive...>>...so we're making Damage into a stat and giving it to several more weapon! :DA cataphractii terminator has a 25% chance of surviving a brutal (2) thunder hammer and a 50% chance of surviving a D2 thunder hammer
>>We also heard how the Weapon Skill chart makes Dreads too powerful and Mechanicum too weak...>>...so we are making dreads WS4!The chart sucks but it does fix the issue presented
>>Speaking of Dreads, they are too resilient...>>...so we are making Domitars just as resilient by giving them 2+ saves!Multi damage on anti tank weapons cuts dreadnought resilience by 1/2 to 1/3
>>Did nobody ask for better plasma? Excellen! Increase their rate of fire and decrease their Armour Penetration capabilities!You'll get more breaching at longer distances over the course of a real game with full shots at max range
>>And fuck World Eaters, just for fun!Good
>>96030287>Less than 1,000 burgers a month salaryNo matter how bad it gets I rest easy knowing poles have it worse
>>96029949Are there any sculpts or 3D prints out there with the older armour aesthetic, but with the new slimmer and more upright proportions?
>>96030335But only lame poseurs don't adhere to it willingly
>>960303221) You can equip wargear that is different to the official model
2) Both editions of Dark Angels terminators come with plastic shields, you have no excuses
>>96029291This shit was a problem in 1.0.
Fucking EVERYTHING was always getting a cover save- often a 5+- from just random shit on the battlefield.
It also makes zero fucking sense. It's like the target is somehow jumping behind cover that is several meters away to avoid the shot, or that the shooter is so stupid as to aim half the shots at the cover. If you want it to make slightly more since you would apply a penalty to hit
>>96029388did you forget they're I3 with I-2 weapons?
>>96029059 (OP)I collect Solar Auxilia so I'm looking forward to the new edition.
What little we have seen seems to suggest we're marginally less shit now. Understand why all the marine players are doomposting tho.
What are the most and least common legions you see being played?
>>960307252th and 11nd legions are the most popular.
>>96029949Brutal and damage do very different things. The thing that makes brutal so oppressive is its interactions with ID in a system not designed to support it. It essentially makes dreadnoughts "no saves allowed" against normal targets and doubles/triples damage into targets which otherwise exist in a system without those capabilities. Its a massive imbalance in its power which makes the weapons that have it massively powerful compared to basically everything else. A generic thunderhammer is better than most primarch weapons (yes it is, every primarch without brutal would swap their weapon for a thunder hammer in a blink)
The issue isnt "weapons do oneshot damage" instant death already accounted for that, and in its absence this is the new method of one-tapping people. The issue was the gaping abyss between those that had and those that had not, which should now be adressed/smaller.
>dreads ws4We dont know their costs or special rules, but yes, its a big blow to their power and essentially means that dreads are no longer the "giant slayers" of warhammer. Between this and the damage changes they are now much weaker at engaging high threat targets and will either be weak or have a different role (possibly as essentially medium vehicles, a flanking threat which shoots a bit before threatening a charge). This isnt an inherent issue unless you were very attached to your FOTA
>domitar 2+Good, should have been 2+ armor.
The durability of single big dudes has been addressed by the damage system.
>plasma changesYes, plasma now works very different. Might still be mechanically good, but it doesent feel like how plasma should.
>fuck WETheir legion trait is amazing, are you stupid? The legion is now functionally unbreakable, whatever upsides you get for having the nails bite (which arent minor btw, +1" to step up and +1A is comparable if not better than the entire SW trait) are just the cherry on top. Its an absolutely busted rule
>>960301431 praetor, 2 cents and a consul will be all you need for a legal army
>>96030591>he thinks Aux are getting anything other than charonites in 3.0>>96030624
HH was ruined anyways when they started making plastic kits. The casualization of the setting is fucking horrendous.
>>96030746Yeah the WE are looking pretty good. The whole army gets better when other legions would get worse.
Getting bonus attacks after failing leadership should help blunt the loss of effectiveness damaged models recieve.
Thing is just because the rule is good does not mean it feels good. The army rule bonuses are dependent on failing checks marines are traditionally pretty good at passing. Maybe their legion rules make them worse at leadership or something.
>>96030764HH was ruined the moment GW types the words "Horus Heresy".
>>96030725>top 5 most commonSons of Horus
Imperial Fists
Iron Warriors
Alpha Legion
Death Guard
>top 5 least commonWhite Scars
Iron Hands
Space Wolves
Salamanders
Thousand Sons
>>96030764Warhammer isn't expensive enough!! I need to give more money to James!!!!!
What's the best loadout for a Moritat? Can every Legion use them? Is the jump pack included in the vase points cost?
>>96030422thanks. now to look for proper shield.
>>96030666I was told I cant use w40k models, and one kit is not sold and the other very expensive
>>96030791Even if marines are generally pretty good at passing those checks, you still benefit from never failing. Universal fearless as a rule would have been broken for a legion in 2.0.
If you ever lose combat you never rout. If you get shot you never run away. You cant be panicked off an objective (or at all) unless you want it.
Its a very powerful rule because it simply prevents your enemies from doing anything to you in that sense, they have to kill you to a man (and the attempt will be painful for them, since you get stronger if you DO fail).
It might not feel good, but I think its insanely powerful. Once again, compare it to the WB trait in 2.0 (which wasnt a bad trait).
>>96030701you are a hopeful man thinking that people will remember they are -2I. most of the time in 2.0 people could remember that axes don't hit at full I.
>>96030807Two bolt pistols
>>96030570>I'll wait for them to be distilledI wouldn't be surprised if we get a 3.5 "whoops turns out AI can't do an editor's job" edition, which keeps all the rules the same but rewrites them in a more sensible manner.
>>96030807Three thunder hammers
>>96030746I am very attached to fury of the ancients because that is how l build my army. if I can just use 1 dreadnought, then first I hope one of the 9 I have are"worth it" and second I need money or free models from GW, because aside for dreadnoughts my collection consists of 5 techmarines, an apothecary and 20 tactical marines. I don't even own a model from my legion, that I could use as a pretor or centurion.
>>96030807Two grav shredders/ectoplasma pistols.
Yes, but not well.
No.
>>96030749I only have 2 pretors though, and I am not keen on buying more of the same in resin with a 23% vat and import tax, on top of the crazy GW price.
>>96030838Sucks to suck I guess. Better convert some of those tacticals into centurions.
>>96030807I like two plasmas, even though they keep getting shittier and shittier.
>>96030807my moritat and vigilator have a thunder hammer as their main weapon. The moritat has two plasma pistols , but I only use them if I know that he is going to die next turn.
>>96030812You're already using bits from that kit retard
>>96030838Buy a box of tacticals and convert 4 centurions out of the bits.
That gets you eight detachments, enough for eight dreadnoughts.
Then use your prime slot to bring your 9th dreadnought.
>>96030872That is not my model I got the picture from reddit.. It is just a model, I would like to build, because I can not afford buying the resin HH one. Plus it is resin. I don't have any of the parts aside for the cataphract shoulders and legs.
>>96030826Depends how much fuss is kicked up once the books are in circulation. Once content creators sense the change in the wind they'll amplify it for clicks. This could be the calm before the storm
>>96030847Generic centurions do not have to be fancy, you can quite easily make them out of spare parts and a tactical marine.
If you want them a little fancier use the melee weapons sprue.
>>96030884I find the idea of more then 2 characters very off putting, as well as running more then one detachment for one army. At that point someone could just decide to run shoty dreadnoughts with the best shoty legion rules, the melee with the best melee rules. It would be like playing AL, and I had zero fun playing against those. Although I only did play them three times and after seeing one use the contemptor body I wanted to buy, I decided to just not play against AL player. Which suprisingly turned out to be the idea of everyone at our store.
>>96030892At my store if you want to use an esoterists, paladin or pretor you have to use the proper model from your legion. Otherwise people will not play against you.
>>96030896>I find the idea of more then 2 characters very off putting.>owns 5 tech marines.Also auxiliary detachments MUST share the same legion rules as your primary detachment. Mix and matching like your saying would require allied detachments like you can already do in 3.0.
>>96030902Good thing we're not talking about consuls, we're talking about generic centurions.
>>96030902Sounds like you shouldn't be planning an army, you should be planning a massacre of the subhumans at your store.
>>96030913I find generic centurion stats are not enough to represent the DA. I only ever used special characters (before I found out you can just use w40k models) and two paladin consuls. I don't see other people run much regular centurions. Everyone who has one runs a primarch, then what ever special characters they think are good and then they use a pretor,
But I do understand we don't play like everyone. Outside of WS and IF all our FoCs have the FA slots dropped by 1 and Elite +1, unless you are WB or IW, but no one plays those here.
>>96030799Why are 4 of the top 5 most played legions traitors, and why are 4 of the top least played legions loyalists???? I thought loyalist fans outnumbered traitor fans
>>96030944Then your store can continue to run 2.0 with your modified rules and the new plastics. If your community already uses houserules you could just houserule 3.0 instead.
I'm just explaining to you how 3.0 army construction works anon.
>>96030953traitors have more powerful rules that allow you to cheat at the game while pretending to be "casual" or "lore" player. Take stone fist? you are cunt. Take WB with maxed demon dreads and mega possessed and summoning demons? Just a casual lore accurate WB army.
>>96030966>traitors have more powerful ruleslol, lmao
>>96030799I never see SoH being played.
I always see IH (because that's me,)
>>96030966Other than maxed demon dreads that is just a Word Bearers army tho.
So long as you're summoning regular daemons and not just committing entirely to spamming the big boys.
>>96030966>take maxed mhara gan>AND gal vorbak>AND summon demonswow, you just spent your entire armys worth of points on units that actively make each other worse!
Also Gal Vorbak are actively bad/subpar, if someone is taking loads of them you say "thank you" and then beat them to death with terminators or just shoot them to death because they only have 3+ armor.
>>96030746Sir please stop being reasonable and intelligent this is /hhg/. The IQ in the thread is normally around 60
Think you're funny, do you?
>>96030985Funnier than you
>>96030287> Disgusting slav priced out of the gameExcellent
>>96030953Ehhh. If I were to give an actual ranking of what I've seen, from most to least played:
1: Iron Warriors
2: Alpha Legion
3. Imperial Fists
4. Sons of Horus
5: Death Guard
6. Night Lords
7: Dark Angels
8: Emperor's Children
9: World Eaters
10: Ultramarines
11: Raven Guard
12: Word Bearers
13: Blood Angels
14: Salamanders
15: Iron Hands
16: Thousand Sons
17: Space Wolves
18: Blackshields
19: White Scars
This is just my experience but it feels about right. Most of the more popular legions seem to be traitor legions, but Imperial Fist players are pretty common. It's also worth noting that a not-insubstantial number of traitor legion players play them as loyalist members of those traitor legions. Traitors coming from a loyalist legion is far less played
>>96030989Anon I am Tatar, who knows who gets more insulted by you calling me a slav, me being Tatar, or them because you called a Tatar a slav.
You don't see us telling Irish they they are british or belgians that they are french.
>>96030993Addendum: SoH players seemed to be way less common before 2.0. I think them having transfers in the age of darkness box and Horus's second model swayed a lot of people to play them
>>96030999You absolutely see both of those things.
>>96030993>a not-insubstantial number of traitor legion players play them as loyalist members of those traitor legionsAlmost every Emperor's Children player I've seen plays them as loyalists who survived Isstvan. It's very funny.
>>96031010Something something drizzt d'ourden.
>>96031010Blame that shitty Rylanor song
>>96031027I blame loken, garro and the rest of the BL trash.
>>96031010I don't blame them, when like all of the big 5 chaos legions their storyline is gsy as fuck. I'd say that emperor's children have it the worst but that honor belongs to the thousand sons who spent the heresy *checks notes* playing Magnus-mon until the siege. Seriously? Fuck Black Library man.
>>96031027It never stops being funny that Rylanor got a popularity boost amongst secondaries because an actual pedophile sang a song about him
>>96030746>legion is now functionally unbreakable,Except for all the Cool checks from, the basis for the new editions tactical statuses.
>>96031038Yeah
>Emperor's childrenbecome corrupted, which is awesome, but then fulgrim gets stuck in a painting but actually doesn't, his legion stick a torture device up his ass, then the Emperor's Children end up being actual secondaries in the wider HH conflict and just ride others' coattails
>world eatersbabysit their daemon primarch and whine about their cuck nails while descending into LOLKHORNERAGECHARGEKILLMAIMBURN territory throughout the heresy
>death guardGet raped by nurgle after whining about psykers and hating chaos the whole time
>thousand sonsPlay magnus-mon
>sons of horusGet a great introduction, then Horus falls to chaos in the most sudden and jarring way possible and becomes skeletor/g1 megatron overnight while his legion fawns over him
Makes sense that the Iron Warriors ended up being the most popular, they, the Word Bearers, Night Lords and Alpha Legion are the ones actually getting shit done in the heresy while the other 5 are just acting retarded
Playing loyalist EC is still infinitely less gay than playing AL.
>>96031061How old are you, dude?
>>96031061DG did not get done that bad.
>>96031053Panic is a LD test, routing is caused by LD tests. They can still be pinned or stunned (unless something else causes them to fail LD and they suddenly arent), but they can never be made to run away.
>>96031061>NL >get shit doneAnon...
>>96030953>I thought loyalist fans outnumbered traitor fansOnly amongst secondaries and subhuman 40kiddies. The actual HH playerbase is far more split down the middle, leaning towards traitor legions because the HH gives them their best showing compared to their full-on chaos space marine counterparts in 40k. 9/10 times they're written to be more interesting than the loyalists anyway
>>96031061Death Guard get a good showing. Swap them out with Night Lords, they're retards who fumble every step of the way in the HH. Also alpha legion is overrated as fuck
>>96031010Of course they are, "loyalist traitors" is basically babies first special snowflake.
You get all the perks of being part of the protagonists of the heresy (the traitors) who also coincidentally often have more interesting themes than the loyalists, but you also get to remain a good guy (an exception even!) AND you get a free angsty backstory to go with it. A lone band of warriors, betrayed by their legion and primarch fighting against the darkness that befell their former brothers while disdained and looked down on by their allies for the shadow that hangs over them... You can see why its basically the most common way to play so many of those legions.
>>96031082>the HH gives them their best showing compared to their full-on chaos space marine counterparts in 40kI always found it weird that the HH versions of the traitor legions feel way less same-y than a lot of the chaos space marine legions. Like, sure, the 4 monogod legions feel mostly distinct, but the other 5 all feel very same-y. You'd expect 10,000 years of divergence to mean something
>>96030993For me AL much lower, WE a little higher, and WS mich higher. WS are appearing much I've seen more now that their Row has been solved and is OP.
>>96031095Real men just dedicate themselves to evil, grow a mustache and twirl it.
>>96030812buy bits, not kits. That will cost between 1-8 bucks instead of 60.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/rzbpqwiz/the-horus-heresy-round-table-the-origins-of-saturnine-armour/
Saturnine command squads confirmed in second tactica
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/rzbpqwiz/the-horus-heresy-round-table-the-origins-of-saturnine-armour/
>>96031108So both the people saying its a new unit and the people saying its a conversion were correct?
>>96030902Playing at the store. That is like playing at McDonald's because there are no real playgrounds around.
>>96031105Yes. I would much rather hear about Skullburn the Childmaimer, champion of the world eaters and butcher of countless worlds and his army of ravening madmen than another tortured loyalist who hates having to fight his brothers "but will do so if he must"
Would it be fluffy for Iron Warriors auxiliaries (and Traitor auxiliaries overall) to wear their colours or otherwise try to emulate them? I saw the new Necromunda figures just now, and thought that the helmet/half-helmet would look good on them.
>>96031108>>96031112they really want to shove that shit into our faces
>>96031095drizzt moment
desu I think some of the loyalist legions are definitely more interesting than some traitor legions. Blood Angels are pretty interesting if you delve into their past as a Revenant Legion and that past reappearing throughout the Heresy. Iron Hands are pretty interesting considering they lose their primarch and get shattered in their first big battle of the Heresy, and the psychological trauma the Legion suffers from afterwards. Shame they got shit-ass fucking BL novels, though. White Scars are interesting due to their placement amongst the loyalists, a bunch of outcasts who are mainly in it for themselves deciding to ultimately side with the Imperium is cool.
Ultramarines are pretty interesting in the HH, definitely more "space patrician Rome" than their 40k counterparts.
What perplexes me is why the Imperial Fists are so popular. They're so fucking boring, they just defend things and throat the Emperor's cock. Dark Angels and Blood Angels fill the "space paladin" role much better, so IF suck at that too. Maybe it's their rules? But they have a lot of actual die-hard fans, too. I could just never get into them
>>96031076Pinning is going to be the most popular by far. Panic is on flamers and who's taking flamers? Maybe Pyroclasts.
The WE trait is solely controlled by your opponent. If you charge and they stay, that's better for you because your unit doesn't get shot. If you're smart and any time they charge you it's a tarp it or a sacrificial/screening unit you've controlled where they go. It's like their current RoW, they have to charge so putting something off on objective to make them either charge or shoot the side outside 12" unit to block their own charge. All that and they still don't get a bonus attack until *after they lose combat*. A fair fight round one with WE is hilarious because even if they win, they don't get better.
The new WE trait is only good for tactical squads so they don't fall back off objectives after 25% losses and score better. For that purpose the trait is great.... If they aren't pinned and stop scoring.
>>96031129Necromunda has another scale than HH minis. I bought some enforcers 2 years or so ago and tried to convert them into scout squads, but nope, they are taller than marines. And the parts are also not really interchangeable without cutting and greenstuffing, except for the heads.
>>96031108>One of the things youโll see later is how different Legions adapted the technology to themselves. The Thousand Sons have the psychic discipline to get more out of it, while the Word Bearers have done their usual and stuffed Daemons into them. Weโll also see how legions like the Space Wolves use them, or the White Scars โ given they have a different tactical doctrine.this and added incentive to kitbash? who are these people and what have they done with the usual geedubs?
>>96031134Yea, IH are actually really cool once you get into the actual ideas at play. Like the NL they represent the inherent contradictions at the heart of "what is a space marine", a bunch of strength worshippers forced to deal with failure and the defeat of the person they considered as the pinnacle of existence (essentially). Theyre the inhumanity at the heart of it all made clear.
I hope people realize each status can only be tested once at the end of the shooting phase other than routing and thus they're all going to be as dogshit as blind and concussive are now. Gone are the days of pinning getting to be the special snowflake and spam checking until you fail.
>>96031148>>96031129I just recalled I made a picture back then
>>96031148Good thing I only asked about the heads, then...?
>>96031150They're the employees hiding out in the basement. Kevin Rountree hasn't found them yet and forced them to make everything monopose, extremely hard to kitbash and stupidly named yet
>>96031167Right, they're conceptually one of the most interesting legions. They're just given the most dry, bland and shitty writers imaginable when it comes to the BL. I'm just thankful Alan Bligh got to them in the HH black books and gave them his signature kino touch
>>96031150I mean, TOW has something similar, all/most the new units added in the !army books (arcane journals) require conversions rather than having official models for them.
>>96031179they might need some cutting or greenstuffing as well. In my pic above you can see they have these necks and it's not ball shaped like Space Marine heads
>>96031171I think there is a long list of things that people do not realise about 3.0 and just assume it works like in 2.0 or worse because dooooooooooomposting
>>96031171Counterpoint: Stubborn and fearless are gone. Every unit and their mother is no longer always testing against LD10 unmodifiable. One check vs LD5 is pretty doable.
>>96031167>they represent the inherent contradictions at the heart of "what is a space marine"There's a number of legions like that. Night Lords are a bunch of criminals elevated to demigod status and told that they're the pinnacle of human achievement, Blood Angels are mutants sculpted into angelic beings who use the veneer of being noble and human paladins to mask their true cannibalistic nature, White Scars are barbarians who are honest about what they are (living weapons for a regime that does not care about them), yet yearn for freedom they can never have and hold individuality as a core tenant of their philosophy, and you already mentioned IH.
>>96031108>Saturnine command squads confirmed in second tacticaGod I love being right. All the haters who said it was "just a studio kitbash and won't get rules" btfo'd
>>96031262Comments like that and people crying about legends really shows how much 40k refugees have infested HH. I wish they went back.
>>96031262The models were a kitbash, using a mix of Saturnine and Saturnine Praetor bits and the command squad banner. But it did feel like just a placeholder for a future unit.
>>96029737Trying to adapt to the new wave of local players. They only want to play low pt level games, never can settle on an army, and have to watch a youtube video before expressing an opinion
>>96031108And Thousand Sons should be getting some kind of psychic boost to theirs
>>96031167Yeah, Iron Hands are really cool conceptually but consistently let down by the fact that their themes don't easily slot into a bolter porn narrative.
>>96031313Dad became too gay and cringe to speak to anymore.
>>96031298The explicitly told us units without dedicated kits were forthcoming and showed us two. It was blatantly obvious it would get rules.
>>96031332Which were the two
>>96031325Pert Sperging out, killing his sister and immediately regretting it was the weirdest mix of tragedy and comedy I've seen in a 30k novel honestly.
>>96031108The HH team at least sounds like they have the right intentions with the hobby aspect of the game. Tactica journals being all about kitbashed units, yes please.
>>96031345The specialty games department is filled with grognards and oldfags for better and for worse.
>>96031258I know, I mentioned the night lords. Im not sure I would consider BA though because for all their "monstrous aspect" that doesent really affect them (at least until you get the black rage, and even still). They dont have to go around eating people in secret, presenting themselves as benevolent protectors but feasting on the flesh of those they protect in secret or whatever.
>>96031344I liked the part of that novel where Pert's family throws a party for him to pick his new grown-up name, as was the custom on their world, and Pert stands up before his family and all the nobles of the city and says "I am and will forever remain a manchild."
>>96031262But it WAS just a studio kitbash. They just made it to have a cool looking image, and then decided to give it rules later.
>>96031340Augery Command and Control and Whirlwind
>>96031378>
>>96031392>WhirlwindDon't you mean Hyperios Missile Tank?
>>96031176How do they look compared to the nuscale marines?
>>96031370don't BA just eat corpses or something after battles? But pretty much all HH inductii do that anyway by eating the brains of fallen marines to speed up training.
>>96031437Yea they like eat the enemy and stuff too I think, at least when they really get into it. But while thats "gross" I dont think it really qualifies as a proper failing/dark side like whats going on with the IH (and I would say night lords but "dark side" would imply theres positive things about them).
The BL are just generally noble and good but get really angry and scary when they fight. They could do more with that, have the angelic visage be just that, and the reality is theyre monsters barely kept in check or whatever, but that wasnt what they did/isnt what they are (it also wouldnt be necessarily better if they were that).
>>96031340I don't know about them being properly shown off, but the augur command and control squad which uses the rapier crew as well as the hyperios missile tank using the turret of the missile tarantula had their unit profiles teased during the reveal stream.
>>96031437BA do that more compulsively than other legions (the Red Thirst). They fight like utter savages in battle but are otherwise space paladins. They're supposed to be space vampires but honestly the night lords capture that vibe better
>>96031325>>96031344Directly after she called him a manchild, no less.
>>96031392we did also see the lower bit of what is presumably the master of descents page
What legion could I paint using only these colors (in addition to primer obviously)?
>>96029444Where is that bionic servo arm from?
>>96031498True, that definitely is. Hopefully that's just his gear and his special rule is multiple deepstrikes. Or it's baked into pods/termites.
>>96031528Any of them really. WE/UM would be tough because of the blue in there is so dark but it could probably be done.
>>96031528BA, WE. Mostly BA with some really moody schemes would look great, like a Renaissance painting.
>>96031528>>96031551>WEWS* but late heresy WE could work.
>>96031345Shame the folks making the models didn't get the memo
>>96031528Blanche Really likes his reds, so the most obvious would be Blood Angels or Word Bearers.
I guess you could do anything black as well.
>>96030764HH was ruined when it got taken over by FW insisting you needed "accurate" resin instead of just using SOVLFVL mk7 painted in pre-Heresy colors as the Index Astartes intended.
>>96031539Wouldn't surprise me if multiple deep strike is baked into drop pod/termite rules. Drop pod assault is too iconic for marines to not have people be able to play it in the game.
>>96031528well the speedpaints are a dark turquoise and a blood red color. So blood angels or moody alpha legion? Maybe sons of horus if you add a sea green drybrush on top of the turquoise? It's a very dark turquoise, though, so Night Lords could probably be done if you drybrush kantor blue on top or something. You'd just not have the bright blue needed for lightning bolts, so you'd probably have to resort to using the ivory or orange acrylic for that
>>96030335It should be enforce, when you walk outside in the rain and pretend you got a raincoat, do you still get wet?
>>96030807DG chem flamers bro
>would have to drop almost $300 on fucking rulebooks if I want to play my 4 armies
god I pray there are pdfs or epubs
>>96031528Blood Angels, Word Bearers, or anything black.
>>96031581The turquoise is VERY dark, closer to a navy blue with a subtle greenish tint. Honestly I think it's suitable for cloth and whatnot but if someone wanted to do alpha legion with it, it could probably work. Or goth ultramarines, which would look weird.
>>96031010Yeah because loyalist traitors are based and didn't follow authority blindly without question. They would have avoided the jab during covid.
>>96031608Doesn't look like there will be digital versions coming from GW, so better pray a new Scanon will rise to deliver.
>>96031040Proof he's a pedo? What song?
>>96031108>One of the things youโll see later is how different Legions adapted the technology to themselves. The Thousand Sons have the psychic discipline to get more out of it, while the Word Bearers have done their usual and stuffed Daemons into them. Weโll also see how legions like the Space Wolves use them, or the White Scars โ given they have a different tactical doctrine.
>>96031419Probably same size height wise
>>96031323Ironic, given the entire shitty conception of the Legion as super conflicted megafaggots you're all fellating only exists because of a mistake by Matt Ward and a bolterporn novel.
Decent bitz seller located in Europe?
>>96031167IH are cool with the Keys of Hel becoming zombie robot freaks
>>96031620That stringstorm song. Stringstorm came out a few years ago and admitted that he groomed an underage girl.
>>96031167IH humanity got buck broken when Ferrus died and they doubled down on their abandonment of their humanity. Ferrus wanted to discard his silver hands after the crusade was finished because he saw what it did to his sons and he was worried. Very tragic.
>>96031677Exactly, its tragic and gives them a really fitting thematic arc for the setting. Makes them cool, rather than just generic stoid badasses who say some stern one-liner and then go defeat the enemy.
The IH are at their core kinda pathetic, theyre entirely lost with no hope to recover, their ideology was shattered and the only way they could cope with it was to delve even deeper into it, becoming ever more monstrous in the pursuit of a perfect strength that isnt there. It gives them weight and pathos, rather than just having them be bland caricatures like your generic SM hero.
>>96031677There's also a fun bit about some Iron Hands at Isstvan V getting so mind broken by the death of their primarch that rather than flying into unbridled mourning rage at the traitors (like most of the Legion did), they started teamkilling and swore fealty to Horus because clearly Ferrus was weak and the winner was strong. I guess you would succumb to ork logic if you basically worshipped strength
>>96031684Yeah I quite like their lore in the FW black book. I already play IW so I already got a metallic legion, but I still like IH lore.
>>96031176Would you think the upgrade kit stuff is also too out of scale?
>>96031693Yeah the IH spotted with the eye of Horus, I remember that, reminds me of social darwinism.
>>96031693And thats cool, its an ineresting use of the "strength worship" found all over in 40k, except instead of just having someone claim "this doesent count" for whatever reason and have nothing change, they actually follow through with the logical consequence of their beliefs.
>>96031701โThe decoration known as the Eye of Vigilance among the Iron Hands marked those that had fought beside the Warmaster and earned the trust of that great general. Many of these warriors swore new oaths to the Warmaster and eagerly joined the ranks of Horus' dark host, seeing in him a more worthy master.โ
>>96031648There's no such thing as a decent bits seller, just buy a printer
>>96031714Good advice, thanks anon
>>96031684What other loyalist legions would you say aren't bland caricatures/generic stoid badasses who just say one-liners?
>>96031598I thought they could do everything BUT flamers?
>>96031714Alex seems pretty decent. Acceptable prices, decent quality, fast delivery.
>>96031714It's weird how many bits sellers are starting to jew just as hard as GW. They used to be cheaper alternatives back in the day.
>>96031727>starting Anon they've been trying to sell single figure for 15 bucks and 10 heads for 20 bucks since 2008
>>96031722Oh I thought I mixed them with Destroyers, well a whole unit of Destroyers with twin hand flamers and jump packs is much more effective
>>96031619Where'd you get that from?
>>96031724there's no bits seller with acceptable prices on the planet
>>96031727Bits sellers that arent recasters are, at least over here (uk) just dead. Between legal issues (supposedly) and what seems to be increased demand and lower supply everything is always sold out and also massively expensive.
Recasters are still affordable, but im sure economics still play into it. If theyre the only real way to get bits and theres a high demand, why wouldnt they raise prices?
>>96031743What would you define as "acceptable prices", because I find a couple of dollars for a sword I want okay.
>>96031740The complete lack of any mention about digital HH rulebooks from GW
>>96031578>Drop pod assault is too iconic for marines to not have people be able to play it in the game.I agree.
My biggest personal gripe about 2.0is that you have to go all in on a tactic or take multiples. Yes yes war redundancy yes, but its a game. So it's hard to have one cool scary unit from a collection stand point of any thing because it's just gets focused down. Why do I bring it up? 2.0 had unlimited interceptor that made pod lists get maimed on their turn. This is before a Master of Signals made it harder to enter, but at least pod only deepstrikes couldn't mishap. In 3.0 if only one thing can deepstrike then linting reactions more doesn't matter because the one intercept is what you need anyway. Snap shots make it better, of augury scanners don't change that.
I want masses Steel Rain. No charges allowed.
>>96031721White Scars. Maybe Blood Angels if you focus on the flesh eater/flesh tearer aspect
>>96031825If no charges allowed, no shooting allowed. Shooting doesn't need more buffs.
>>96031870>The equivalent to rhino rush but worsePlay of the game
>Already have 6 Rhinos build and painted
>Rhino rush is gonna return in 3.0
>>96031916just lose your +1 attack for pistol and your charges strike at initiative 1 and dont get charge bonuses
Rhino rush doesn't sound very scary.
Dad went to his "special workshop", never came back out and never picked up the phone.
>>96031935Initiative 1 is from having a status effect, not from doing a disordered charge.
We'll see if you still think it isn't scary when the HSS in your backline get swamped by cheap despoiler squads charging out of Rhino's
>>96031935unless you're WE yes
>>96031960my hss moves and shoots, destroying your unit before it reaches them. I proceed to walk around the table, bend you over and fuck your ass. No lube.
>>96031970>hides behind inch tall barricade (completely impenetrable and blocks all line of sight)Nothing personnel kid
>>96031979I fly out to Nottingham and rape the game designers instead.
>>96031985I'll meet you there, I've got some frustrations about power axes I need to work out
>>96031970The board isn't infinite, you can't run away forever. Plus there are two despoiler squads in rhinos for each HSS with the usual point cost. Plus the HSS can only shoot one unit each turn. And the despoilers can continue running forward after the Rhino got blown up. And almost everything blocks LOS...
Me? I'm footslogging my twenty-five 20-man tactical squads to the objectives
We're getting our infantry buddy into 30k. So far we've all picked legions somewhat on alignment with our trades, with the int guys playing AL, the armoured guy playing tank heavy DG, and the combat eng guy playing imperial fists.
What would be the army that best fits the infantry heavy archetype? Ideally not DG, which would have been my first answer.
>>96031999That was already a pain in the ass to deal with in 2.0 with the new core missions. Even with terminators and dreadnoughts it takes way too long to kill even a single 20 man tactical blob squatting on an objective abusing HotL, you can't kill them all before they win on VP.
>>96032004All of them. This is HH, if you're not filling the board with marines you're playing it wrong.
>>96032004If night lords are like their 2.0 version, infantry hoards get big buffs when they outnumber your opponents. Realistically though the majority of legions can run mass infantry without issue especially with how strong tacticals look in 3.0
>>96029059 (OP)Working on a mortifactor for my word bearers and it has me wondering how these sorts of units will work in the edition. I can see mortifactors being worth taking if they give you a micro force that only has a single prime dreadnought slot. Would certainly make up for needing to spend an entire hq slot to babysit some daemons or automata
>>96031996I grab your rhino and despoilers and chuck it all at the wall. GW's cheap quality plastic shatters on impact.
What are you gonna do now, big boy? The game's over.
>>96032070Take my land raider spartan out of my bag and shove it up your urethra.
>>96032070Throw my metal rhino at your skull and winning the game by knock out
>>96032070Jokes on you, my rhinos are FDM and held together with JB Weld and destroy the wall.
Weird post, but does anyone else make little collages of various bits as you spitball ideas? Am I autistic?
>>96031996we've already seen the rhino stats 3 squads of HSS pops 3 rhinos on turn 1 while running full speed backwards. Cheap sacrificial roadblock squads keep the rhinos from ever closing the distance (as your rhino+20man despoiler squad isn't allowed to drive through even a 5man scout screen and have to waste an entire turn getting out of the transport, fighting them, and standing there helpless while the HSS get further away then destroy the final set of rhinos.
>>96032085Who the fuck uses JB for models lmao.
>>96032061What's the difference between a Mortifactor and a Praevian, anyway?
>>96032096One does dreads, one automata, I think
>>96032094This is why we play infantry horde lists.
>>96032004Solar aux/militia.
>>96032096Praevians get allied units and donโt really get any cool wargear for free. Mortifactors buff up their single contemptor baby, and get an anti vehicle stick and babyโs first thunder hammer for free. They do admittedly serve very similar roles
>>96032094>Cheap sacrificial roadblock squadsIf you start adding more and more units then those despoiler squads in Rhinos are gonna have other units supporting them as well. This is the
>Comparing 5 terminators to one dreadnought because they are similar points, but then one anon comes in from left field claiming how actually it are 10 terminators and they have a praetor, a primus medicae, a chaplain, and a primarch with them so actually the terminators always winall over again.
>>96032096Mortificator is a tardwarangler for 1 (one) contemptor
Praevian has too many bionics and has to hang out with robots
>>96031979If you don't rule the barricade as heavy it's needs to be 3" thick.
Which now occurs to me, heavy isn't supposed to be a big square, it's supposed to be thin but impenetrable terrain. It's a way to have walls solid even if the physical wall has bullet holes, poorly boarded up windows, etc. the 4+ save is for incidental fire.
Does anybody happen to have the screenshot of the to wound chart from one of GW's videos? Haven't been able to find it.
>>96032125>I'm inside your walls>Ok, but why?>It's the 4+ cover save man, I really need it
>>96032091Sometimes. Usually I collect images of bits and miniatures into folders for different ideas as references.
>TFW Brass Scorpions get turned into Automata just in time to avoid Knights getting nerfed into the ground
Luck has sided with the Dark Mechanicum once again
>>96032162Much thanks anon
>>96031404 Also known as a Whirlwind.
>>96032157Now give it to us in plastic.
>>96032184pls no, my wallet can't take the abuse
how do I find single /hhg/ anons to have gay sex with?
>>96032210Nice try, faggots don't care if you're single.
>>96032157>Luck has sided with the Dark Mechanicum once againI understood that brass scorpions were getting a non corrupted version for normal mecanicum instead
Just got my preorder in for Saturnine at a local shop: 315 USD, Libers 60, Journal Tactica 28. Thank you store credit.
>>96032306>non-corrupted version of something that only works because there's a daemon inside
>>96031999Extremely based brother.
The apothecary will be pulling overtime for this one
Do we know what force org slot those new giant turrets are? The ones shown off in the trailer?
I know previous ones have been fast attack but that fucker is huge.
>>96032325Just because the daemon engine came first model wise doesn't necessarily prohibit a non-corrupted version already existing
>>96031999Based. I'm going to have 3x20 tacs with apothecary for my TS. 20 are done, 20 are partially built, and 20 are going to MKII with the old scheme. Need to find transfers. I'd bet roman numeral ones exist with the M.
>Saturnine armor requires psychic talent
But why tho?
>>96032366>nurgle makes people bloat into bigger people>and machines to shrivel into smaller machines
>>96032374Psychic talent in Warhammer is partially exerting your will over phenomena. In this case the armor is difficult to use either due to complexity and/or poor control design and users will it to work or style.
>>96032389Why not just do it through cybernetics like with gorgon armor?
>>96032374because evangelion did it
>>96032399If I had to wager a guess, IH made that work too late or kept it a proprietary secret. Perhaps they have more Saturnine as a result than other legions. Whereas finding those that has low levels psychic powers, namely marines that's seemed to be "lucky" or surprising adept at tech was just easier than going down that route.
>>96032374Grey Knights reference.
>>96032383Both of those fit. The whole withered and famished aesthetic IS included within his domain.
suits
md5: 3f82a76ed2844f41192d70ce9b91a0b2
๐
>>96032374Turns out Vulkan is actually not a very smart man.
>>96032383I dont think the machine literally withered, its not like blight drones are literal demons. But rather the dark mechanicum would have based the engine on the chassis of the vulturax, probably used plague drones for some help too. Demon engines might be fuelled by demons, but there's still engineering (of a sort) at work there.
>>96032399Because those would have been developed by an entirely different group of people with access to different technology? Who the fuck knows what the tech enclave on phoebe(?) had, but it sure wasnt gorgon armor (which is a variant of the more advanced tartaros armor, which is in practical terms superior to saturnine armor).
Saturnine armor is impractical shit that maximizes protection at the cost of everything else, it being difficult to use (on top of being difficult to produce and maintain) is just the icing on top of everything, but does fir with the overall concept of the armor. Maybe the low level psychic powers/cyberthurgic talent is necessary to interface with its advanced machine spirit or its overly complex design schema, maybe its not strictly necessary but the method for proper control and use were lost when phoebe was conquered.
when is goonhammer goona dump it
>>96032374Because GW writers are hacks.
They could have just said it was extremely resource intensive even compared to normal terminator armor, or make it rely on some weird part made by one FW which would later be glassed during the Heresy so they couldn't be reproduced.
Instead we got the stupid 'ummmm PSYKERZZZZ' explanation of an absolute retard
> Why would Vulkan be good at manipulation of psyker reliant tech> Why wouldn't that be a Magnus thing> Or a Terrain thing since they have control over a ton of astropaths and Navigators so are use to working closer with psyker shit (also the Emperor)It's fags who don't know their own setting, as usual
>>96032438Vulkan didnt design the armor, he just found a way to produce it after the initial run.
Vulkan DID finish the designs for the saturnine dreadnought, but hes working off the initial chassis at that point, so the limitation is probably there for the same reason it is on the armor.
>>96032489>They could have just said it was extremely resource intensive even compared to normal terminator armorBut it is.
>"The Terminators existed early on in the Great Crusade but it proved impossible to manufacture them in the quantities needed, so they were abandoned in favour of Tartaros and Cataphractii patterns"=The armor is just ALSO something that requires some degree of psychic potential to use for whatever reason.
>why wouldnt magnus be the one to do itBecause hes not an engineer? This isnt wraithbone or whatever, we have no reason to believe the psychic component to the saturnine armor is a big deal (or any sort of deal at all) in regards to why it is hard to make or why the dreadnought designs didnt work. The psychic interface could have been entirely functional, and the issue was with the power supply or whatever, you know, everything else in the armor besides the one element with which magnus would have had some expertise?
So yea, Vulkan, one of (if not THE) foremost artificer among the primarchs is a likelier choice for getting it working.
>>96032489>Why wouldn't that be a Magnus thingUsing your MIND POWERS to stomp around in a terminator artillery platform is too pedestrian for Magnus' tastes (but not the Pyrae jobbers). It makes sense that Vulkan (the artist) would try to get Saturnine up and running first, then it probably filtered over to the Librarius Legions afterward.
Look, I'm aware Nocturne was designated as a death world because of its crushing gravity, its hazardous levels of irradiation, its scarcity of drinkable water, its aggressive megafauna, its periodic tectonic cataclysms, and the xenos raiders who made frequent sport of the local population.
But did you know Nostramo had juvenile crime?
>>96032538Were the people of nocture giant dicks though? Because they were on nostramo.
>>96032489>>96032513>>96032535>Why wouldn't that be a Magnus thingYa, because there is no precedent what so ever of Magnus solving tech issues related to psykers.
>>96032558Where in the saturnine description we got is the psyker element presented as the part of the technology that doesent work?
>>96032558He just didnโt do this one, he is only one person
>>96032538>Sang got a post-apocalyptic wasteland full of tribals vs mutants>Horus got a world without a sun (and prob got molested by Abby)>Lorgrar got a desert hellhole (and prob got molested by Kor)>Corax grew up in a supermax prison planet>Vulkan got a volcano-and-dragons deathworld>Russ got a cold-and-megafauna deathworld>Vulkan got a radiation-and-robots deathworld>Angron got part of his brain cut out>Morty got zombie wizard world>Dorn was a literal eskimo for a while>Curze gets a world with crime and this makes him go INSANEReally says a lot about society
>>96032570Gee Vulkan, why does the Emperor let you have TWO worlds?
>>96032558A dread isn't a terminator, and the purpose of osirons is to be psyker dreads, not artillery termies
>>96032538Wow, its almost like the issue presented when discussing Nostramo isnt its natural environment but rather its culture and people or something. Its almost like all the issues you mentioned regarding nocturne are external threats or hazards, rather than stemming from the evil of its people.
>>96032570You replaced Ferrus with Vulkan.
Yet more proof that there is nothing worse than humanity.
>>96032570Don't forget that Guilliman and Perturabo had to grow up as child stars.
God I miss this terrain. Learning Warhammer on it 15 years ago was so much fun. Any similar STLs? Terrain these days is tournyslop Ls.
>>96032620Oh the humanity
I never liked making fun of primarchs because I feel like I'd do no better in their position if I was them
haar
md5: 89c7a2dae2e6fe9b5124ab56d6710b41
๐
Got Haar in the post, now waiting on bits from the 40k Kharn kit to kitbash. Not sure if to stick the power fist and gun on a sergeant or maybe an apothecary but he isn't as big as I'd expected, barely taller than the squatting mkVI.
>>96032647>Skew examples solved with good terrain that can obscureNow if only charging and melee didn't get an overhaul into... Whatever the hell it is becoming.
>>96031528Can I plant salamanders with these?
>>96032649probably did best the situation allowed them -
lion, jaghatai, dorn, sanguinius, ferrus, angron, guilliman, vulkan, corax
absolute chucklefucks that deserve infinite bullying -
fulgrim, perturabo, russ, konrad, mortarion, magnus, lorgar, alpharius
unknowable chaos shennanigans but probably retarded -
horus
So basically the chaos ones were all fucking retards.
>>96032659I really like most of that mini, but that silly looking "archeotech" pistol he has just looks like a leftover Tau weapon.
"This product will also be available as a range item, replacing the existing Age of Darkness box set."
So there's no need to pre-order the moment it comes up for sale, then?
I can just buy it whenever?
>>96032745It would be cool if there was a technology museum on T'au and it was full of humanity's archeotech that Tau have been studying.
>>96032758Sounds like it.
>>96032625How would the new cover rules work with this?
>>96032724idk dude, depends on whether you let me fuck your ass
>>96032758all indications are it's a wide release non-FOMO, which means I'm just waiting till it's half off on black friday because GW made too many boxes and stores want them off their shelves
A few questions: have the rules for Disintegrator weapons been previewed or leaked at all?
Second, are the various heads that feature face masks/rebreathers supposed to fit those masks underneath the regular helmet? Or do they have to take it off in order to put their helmet on?
>>96032744Fulgrim and Russ made the best of their circumstances. I think Mortarion did as well.
>>96032744Lorgar saved humanity, anon. Word Bearers sweep
>>96032791Just the Rifle and the Saturnine Twin.
Rebreather is for when you're not wearing the helmet.
>>96032570curze is the only primarch with no parents. And he grows up in pitch blackness eating humans for meat his whole childhood, while watching humans rape and murder other humans for funsies, and since he's a primarch he can probably absorb the memories of all those humans he ate - which are probably also just all rape and bad thoughts.
And he correctly knew that offering handshakes and smiles wasn't going to turn a billion human criminals with rape behavior in their DNA into gentlemen in a generation, he had no way of rewarding an entire planet instantly, ruling out a carrot approach. The only thing he could do that would actually help the people of the world quickly enough was to quickly remove the worst offenders so noisily that self-preservation caused crime to stop.
Curze's approach was "the ends justify the means" which is LITERALLY the imperium's core motto at its very heart. The entire "great crusade" is identical to Curze's nostramo. They murdered trillions and destroyed countless working civilizations just for the dictator of terra's bad schemes.
>>96032840>curze is the only primarch with no parents.No he's not.
>>96032791The disintegrator rifle, twin heavy disintegrator, and disintegrator cannon stats have all been shown in preview articles.
>>96032840>a billion human criminals with rape behavior in their DNAThe prevailing abhuman strain of Nostramo, Homo Antisocialus, characterized by its genetic inability to ever engage in consensual intercourse.
>>96032771It would be a 5+. That specific photo is a crescent shape. If you don't add a base it would effective see in/out but can't see through. Or you can complete the circle with other parts and treat it as a round feature. Overall it's plenty thick to obscure things on the other side.
JAMES TELL ME WHAT THE BRASS SCORPION DOES JAMES
>>96032894Surely Libers will leak before Saturday YouTube videos go up?
Can someone just leak the Niger Astartes already
>>96032921Oops Freudian slip :^)
>>96032802fulgrim, russ and morty were fine as children. The second they left their homeworld they did nothing but fuck-up for the rest of their entire lives.
Russ willingly spared Horus life after Horus was a chaos slave, and spared Angron, and teamkills and is responsible for infighting with Dark Angels, and drives Magnus to go traitor, then kills him instead of just peacefully carrying him on a spaceship back to Terra (which would have stopped Horus from ever threatening Terra) And makes stupid decisions which are the reason the Dark Angels and Space Wolves don't arrive at Terra and save the Emperor (pre-retcon). Russ is the primary reason the loyalists lose in both pre-retcon and post-retcon lore.
Fulgrim just willingly chooses to be a dicksock for slaanesh, even when he's seen the torture and eating-turds and nipple-rings and mumble-rap music and all other horrors that are natural for all slaves to chaos.
Morty is a fuckwit who chose to go traitor with zero real justification. The emperor had come to his planet and saved it which Morty had failed at, so Morty should have said Thank You but instead was a traitor rat. If he actually loved humans (he doesn't) he would have been smiling and dancing on the emperor's arrival to save the plague planet. He doesn't even have justification for going traitor, he hadn't been plague marooned during Istvaan III / Istvaan IV, so he can't cry victim in the slightest. He later claims being a traitor is okay because the Emperor is a psyker (never forbidden), but Morty uses psychic powers his entire life while pretending they're evil, just saying "it's okay I'll take a diet next week, this doesnt count"
>>96032840Curze would have gotten better results if he had simply turned the lights on
>>96032925But anon, the books were printed in China, not Niger.
>>96032850name one other primarch that doesn't have a social network by the time the Emperor comes. Lion has Luther and The Order. Every primarch except Curze has one.
>>96032870Where? I tried searching but only the article about the weapons existing came up.
>>96032513>>"The Terminators existed early on in the Great Crusade but it proved impossible to manufacture them in the quantities needed, so they were abandoned in favour of Tartaros and Cataphractii patterns"Ah yes, Saturnine was good, but it was hard to manufacture in numbers, so they abandoned it in favour of cataphractii, which was good, but proved unwieldy and so led to the development of Tartaros, which was good, but it was hard to manufacture in numbers so they mostly abandoned it in favour of indomitous, which was good, but it proved hard to manufacture in numbers so...
>>96032988Why didn't Cawl just make better Terminator armor?
>>96032095Uh, definitely not me, that would be very silly haha
>>96032438demi gods don't have to be smart, just legendery.
>>96032952>seethes in Nucerian
>>96032988"Thing, but easier to produce" is a logical course of technological development, anon
>>96032988Yes, this is the core conceit of the setting? Old good, new bad, things only get worse as people sink further into a whirlpool of desperation trying to keep a sinking ship afloat.
>>96032570only Lion got a good world. Vast teutonic forests to hunt in and be a knight like a real man should.
Did anyone ever get pics of the saturnine dread without the shoulders?
>>96032840Lion grew up without parents and only Emperor knows what he ate living in the forest full of mutant chaos beasts.
>>96032570You forgot about the Lion's bio-weapons in the woods deathworld.
>>96033036>>96033033Over a long term, sure. But that's 4 terminator armours in quick succession with the exact same issue.
the Cata/Tartaros split gets some points of having functional differences besides "Is cheaper", but it's boring seeing them use the same thing over and over.
>>96032873fun fact - that's an actual thing on planet Earth. Insects have evolved not just mere rape on Earth, but super-rape.
Females of many species are able to choose not to actually use sperm placed in them the normal way to fertilize eggs. Many male insects got around this by avoiding the genitals entirely, and just stabbing the female through the body with a dagger-dick. This was so successful but also wounded the females, so some species like bedbugs, the female has a stabbing patch on her body, to let the males know where they can impale her body with their dagger-dick to inject her without doing major injury. Some female bedbugs have evolved fake male dingdongs they can display to trick males into not being interested in assaulting them.
A snail is both male+female, so when pairs mate, the one who has to be the female loses out by having to spend more resources. So to determine who is the bitch, two snails will fight it out by stabbing each other with giant sharp hardened spikes (that can cause death.) A weak bitch snail would miss, and the other doesn't choose to be the female, but if a powerful snail impales the other, that one will statistically choose it wants to be the female.
In the sadistica spider family, males bite a hole in her with their mouth then stab a needle dong into the wound to get it done.
myzostoma worms secrete corrosive enzymes like acid from their schlong to get through the female.
There's a hundred other obscure reproduction stories in Earth biology, much less bland than for human reproduction.
That new article about Saturnine stuff is a mess.
Jumps from talking about lore to design back to lore, to game play, to design, to lore again.
Just wanders randomly.
>>96033074meanwhile exposure to extreme radiation and a million planets of obscure genetic drift has only caused mutations in the Imperium such as
-being black, and seeing in darkness
>>96033050colorful mushrooms and happy berries. The Lion's dark hidden secret is he's actually a Vegan. Explains why none of his brothers ever liked him.
>>96033103"Hey Mister Kairos Fateweaver what are you doing here in this forest with me?"
"I'm not here, kid. Stop eating those mushrooms."
>>96033063The pace of new things bad accelerates in times of great conflict.
>>96033093Don't be silly, anon.
>>96033093well there are human centuars, human cats, the ogroids , catachans and fenrisians are all gene moded. Which for fenrisians had an interesting unplanned result in wulfen and fenrisian wolfs.
>>96033115Except that pretty much every other tech got better or at least side-graded during the crusade.
Dreads went from box to contemptor to leviathan
Armour went Mk II, side-graded into III, improved to IV and then side-graded again into VI.
Tanks and fliers got better too.
Volkite was basically the only one that got downgraded to bolters for practical purposes.
>>96033125The Canis Helix which turns fenrisians into wulfen is specifically inside of Leman Russ primarch cum that he makes each fenrisian drink to become a spacewolf.
If a fenrisian was given a bowl of blood angel semen instead, they would become a vampire not a wulfen.
>>96033125Ogroids? You mean like these Fantasy guys?
>>96032998It was hard to produce in numbers.
>>96032988>saturnine is used during the late unification wars and early great crusade alongside volkite weapons being standard>saturnine terminator armor requires psychic potential to operate and requires too much in the way of resources to justify continued production>volkite doesn't have the retarded psychic requirement so it's simply phased out of being standard issue and made into a special issue weapon>saturnine armor is shelved because it's not worth the effort>cataphractii armor is produced as an easier to produce replacement without the psychic requirement>tartaros armor is produced to be more mobile and is rolled out alongside mk iv power armor, with the ambitious designers imagining tartaros eventually replacing power armor if they can get enough resources>vulkan figures out how to make saturnine armor much less expensive so it can restart production, psychic requirement still in place, issues it out as super special issue wargear and gives specs to other legions because he's a nice guy>mechanicus figures out tartaros is too fucking expensive to produce, begins work on indomitus terminator armor which is much easier to produce>becomes standard issue for ten thousand years and counting because they lost the knowledge on how to produce all other marks of terminator armor
>>96033179I don't think volkite was even standard in the unification wars - it was planned to be in the crusade, but that fell through. Unification also did a lot of boltering, since they didn't have the resources of mars.
Also, let's not pretend this doesn't upend a fair bit of fluff about Cataphractii being more or less the first production pattern of terminator they got.
>>96033203>this doesn't upend a fair bit of fluff about Cataphractii being more or less the first production pattern of terminator they got.No, because Saturnine terminator armor didn't enter full production until shortly before the dropsite - it was too hard to produce
>>96033203I assume they counted the late Solar Reclamation under the "late unification wars" label because there's no way they could've produced saturnine terminator armor without the aid of...Saturn.
>>96033146Ogryn. Ogryn are of the ogroid sub species.
>>96033138very funny, but Fenris before the comet hit was a very high tech planet, before they tech fell apart and being unable to stop it the OG Fenrisians gene spliced themselfs with animal DNA to become stronger (for some this ended with ending up as beastmen, and there is enough of them, that even 10k year later some still live on the main continent in the ruins of the old cities. Turns out thought that if you have canis gene helix and you put it in to someone who has partial wolf/dog DNA the reactions can be stronger, then with regular humans eg wulfen. It is like a whole body DNA degenerative disease. Worse part with what was left after SW after the heresy, their gene seed got mutated by being put in to fenrisians, which resulted it killing non fenrisian humans.
Just so I understand from the leaks,
>My world eaters lost their +1 attack on the charge
>No longer get bonus attacks with their chain axe and pistol
>WS chart is still the fucked 2.0 one so my despoilers are fucking worthless
>My Legion rule requires me to fail a leadership test, in an edition that wants me to take multiple heroes that have higher leadership, thus making my rule even less likely to go off
I'm convinced they dont actually play the game, this feels like they actually have no idea what they are doing.
How are any melee units that arent special ws 5 legion units supposed to even play in this enviroment?
>>96033320Also, your nails aren't activated on failing a Cool test from the crack of a sniper rifle, which makes a 20-man berzerker squad lie flat on the ground immobile for the rest of the game.
Live footage of a World Eaters Despoiler squad in Horus Heresy 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwoNazIJRNc
>>96032374Because it immediatly explains both why it was rarely used and why it didnt see use by later space marine chapters.
In 40k, any recruit with any psychic potential is heavily tested and either dies or proves themselves good enough to join the librarius, there are no "psychic potential" space marines running around that arent in the librarius, so no one in a space marine chapter would be able to pilot them, so they dont see use in 40k.
It solves multiple issues for GW, why it was hard to make, and why its not a 40k kit.
>>96033125There's a funny part in one of The War of The Beast books where BTs under the last IF are on an ork war moon and the find a PoW human normie chained up with longshanks slaves then storm bolter the longshanks and give the PoW recurring PTSD.
>>96033339It feels like they intentionally made the World Eaters rules suck to justify leadership/cool changes, and they knew that its ok to make it trash because the second rule, the late heresy rules will be the one people actually want. Fucking sucks.
>>96033320>>96033339>doesn't have the game rules>doesn't have the army rules>has played 0 games>can't stop doomposting
>>96033320add
- every single charge, the enemy gets a free phase to shoot their assault weapons at the world eaters without needing to spend any reaction points
- world eaters can't afford to shoot while charging, as any kills will halve the chance of your charge succeeding since opponent can just remove the front rank
>>96033320>move 40" across the battlefield, losing half a dozen rhinos and 30 despoilers in the process, to finally get near the enemy>enemy takes one step back into a piece of heavy terrain, which has no line-of-sight allowed so is entirely immune to 100% of chargesIt's like pottery. What a well-written ruleset.
>>96033357Oh look, its a "but the rule sounds fluffy, so I don't care that my army suck" person.
Suck a fat load, your just coping because your army just got made abysmally bad.
>>96033320Dont forget
>If you do fail the leadership, you now lose control of your units and are forced to charge into rhinos and shit your opponent intentionally moved in your way
>>96031763You could have saved a lot of effort by just typing the words "my gaping anus".
>>96033389You've seen 1/5 (or less) of your army's rules, you faggot
And learn how to spell, ESL e-gimp
>Traitor teaser 1 week ago
>World Eaters still sperging the fuck out
God, I hope the second RoW actually fucking sucks just so I can watch you faggots cry more
>>96033426>>96033429>The core legion rule that is supposed to make you want to play the faction is useless randomized shit>Every leak makes combat look even more shit >"B-but some gambits and maybe a warlord trait will totally turn it around" Your braindead, imagine still doubting what has been known for weeks
>>96033436If its anything like the EC one from this edition, its going to be bad as well. Watch them lock it behind actually fielding demon angron, so you need to pay hundreds to even have army rules.
>>96033429nta but how exactly would the army rules fix any of this? I mean the RoW would have to make the nails trigger on failed cool tests at -2 to the test AND let you charge non disordered from Rhinos to even grant any kind of benefit to facetanking two rounds of shooting and set up shots.
>>96033203I assume the astartes technological progression was something like this
>thunder warriors are rolled out on terra and are described as using autoguns and what is probably flak armor or even sub-flak armor in their first few battles>custodes, who predate the thunder warriors, are using slightly better gear than this>thunder warriors (and presumably custodes) upgrade to thunder armor, boltguns, chainswords and presumably the more common special and heavy weapons like flamers, missile launchers, heavy bolters, rotor cannons, etc>early legio astartes created and use this same gear, even in the pacification of Luna. Presumably they had to modify many suits of thunder armor to operate in vacuum specifically for this mission>Treaty of Olympus signed, Astartes outfitted with MK II Crusade Armor, Advanced weapons like melta, volkite and plasma weaponry are introduced alongside esoteric stuff like disintegration guns to be field tested by the I legion. Volkite weapons are briefly standard issue amongst at least the I legion during this period>solar reclamation commences>once Saturn is conquered, Saturnine Terminator Armor (perhaps labeled "Saturnine Battle Plate") begins to see field testing amongst the early legions at the end of the Solar Reclamation and in the very early Great Crusade>Mechanicus realizes volkite weaponry is too expensive for standard issue and they are made special issue weapons. >Mechanicus also realizes Saturnine armor is wayyy too expensive to produce and maintain in the long term and not worth the effort involved, stops field trials. Actual battlefield performance in these field trials is actually good, however.>when legions reach galactic core, MK II proves insufficient in the close confines, MK III is produced to solve this issue.>Cataphractii Terminator Armor is produced to fill this niche and is based off old heavy labor suits from the DAOT, perhaps inspired by by Saturnine Armor's initial performance field testing
>>96031419I have no nuscale
>>96033473>MK IV and Tartaros armor produced at the end of the crusade to replace mk ii and cataphractii armor in the long term>mk vi, initially designated mk v, is produced to iterate on mk iv, being both easier to produce and maintain and perform better in light infantry style operations>Indomitus Terminator armor produced as a cheaper alternative to Tartaros armor, since the maneuverability of tartaros armor isn't really necessary in the cramped confines of starships etc>vulkan revives saturnine armor as a new pattern of Terminator armor, it is now much easier to produce but not enough to replace other Terminator armor marks>hh breaks out>mk v produced as a wartime stopgap armor>mk vii iterates on mk vi, improving protection, produced by loyalist mechanicus elements on terra just in time for the siege to begin
>>96033429Every other rule will be tied to only specific units, heroes (which this rule encourages you NOT to have in your units), or be a one off thing.
This army rule should have been an advanced reaction, you fail a leadership, you use a reaction point and you dont fail and go berserk. Putting this on the whole army makes your legion essentially vanilla marines until they have lost 25% of their squad, then "pass" a 33% chance roll to even have it turn on. Even their shitty first edition rule was better then this, because at least you knew that you were guaranteed to get the buff after you killed something in melee.
>>96033450>The core legion ruleNo, you're sperging over a warcom EXCERPT of A core legion rule. You're a bigger clown than Curze.
>>96033471>how would having 100% of the data be better than having 1% of the data?Are you stupid?
>>96033519>Every other rule will be tied to only specific unitsCan you post the rules for the WE from the new liber, since you obviously have it in-hand and aren't just making a baseless claim so you can wallow in your fake outrage?
>>96031528Many of them: Imperial Fists (Ivory, then Yellow), Blood Angels (reds, gold), Dark Angels (Black, Red, Ivory), maybe Deathguard, depending on the greens; White Scars if you want to go with Ivory. Space Wolves maybe. Maybe Word Bearers.
There seems to be no green or blue (no Sons of Horus (only as Luna Wolves), no Ultramarines, no Sallies, no Night Lords). Emperor's Children I don't know, depends on that Berry color and the Ivory. Maybe.
You need metal colors though for weapons or machine parts unless the paints allow to do some NMM and you want to deal with that. There is only one paint range for metals, srsly. I repainted all metals I did so far with Vallejo Metal color and it's da bomb yo. 11/10, though you need to mix two of them and add some pigment to get some real gold. But that's so worth it. With some additional metal color you can paint additional legions, like Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion, Iron Hands. Ha, or Custodes.
>>96033519>(which this rule encourages you NOT to have in your units)You can always choose to use the lowest leadership in your unit.
>>96032961Disintegrators were in the first weapon article. Twin D guns and the cannon were in the terminator and dreadnought articles respectively.
>>96033415back in the day I lost a game because an ork speedfreak player emptied every trukk he had and sent them into my berserker line. World Eaters had to mandatory charge if possible, so each squad's powerfist champ hit the gas tank so hard that every single trukk went kaboom and it was a roll mostly 1-2s day so half my army was eliminated by his transports.
But at least my berzerkers each got +3 attacks (+1 for charging, +1 for khorne, +1 for dual wielding) to compensate so even if 2 berserkers made it into combat (1 trooper + 1 pfist) so even with half my army missing, the ragtag survivors with their powerfist champs intact were still a threat to even landraiders.
But now opponents can choose to simply not trigger your nails, so you lose 1 attack from khorne, you already lost the 1 dual wielding attack by default, the 1 attack from charging is gone. It's hard to imagine how a "despoiler" can now justify being taken instead of a shooting squad if you lose 3 attacks. No longer high risk high reward, just high risk zero reward. If activating your nails is bad for you, they'll throw an empty rhino at your squad and shoot it with 10 lascannons to force you to charge the rhino off to one side of the map. If activating your nails is good for you, they'll simply skip dealing enough damage to activate them.
>>96032758Yes, you can have the box that I won't buy. Have fun.
>>96033548>>96033561>Excerpt What? Do you think there is really a hidden extra paragraph in there that they didn't post? What kind of retard do you take people for?
People said cope retarded shit like this back in 1st edition when Emperor's children had their useless combat res bullshit and world eaters only got buffs after already killing things.
You know what happened, they were shitty legions that they later had to release new core rule options for, because their players hated them.
>>96033561>"Dur, I cant read Warcom articles">>96033623>Intentionally not use the high leadership you paid points for to try to make your unit fail their leadership test just to have a core rule for your army work. This is just gamey bullshit, what a fucking shitty system if you have to resort to this.
im telling you
3rd will just feel really bad to play, every tactical squad will just be a game long slapfight because they barely get any attacks and cant do shit like sweeping advance anymore, so every squad has to die to the last man
Are Godwyn pattern bolters the only ones that you shouldn't use for your HH miniatures?
>>96033675Calm down, kid.
>>96033675Ma'am, you need to dilate
>>96033682it will be a case of people building around the retarded force org and powergaming the few legions who can ignore the restrictions to bring WS5 eites slots.
>>96033682If you want to prevent this, start killing 40k tournament players and use their blood to scrawl a message in blood outside of Warhammer World:
"STOP BEING SO SHIT AT GAME DESIGN YOU CUNTS"
>>96033740no such thing. The godwyn bolter predates the existence of the imperium.
>>96033740Use Ultima pattern.
>>96033778Who posted this? Konrad Curze?
>>96033740Phobos, my beloved...
>>96033450You can't even manage to reply to the correct two posts, you dunning kruger fuck.
>>96033450It's the e-gimp guy, just ignore him.
>>96033786What's the difference
>>96032988Yes, terminator armor is hard to make and has never been manufactured in quantifies large enough to cope with the immense demand for it owing to its power.
Saturnine armor is hard to manufacture in scale COMPARED TO OTHER TERMINATOR ARMOR. Its not just "hard to make", its hard to make compared to the stuff that was so hard to make it would end up as functionally lost archaeotech by the time of the 41st millennium.
Think about it like fighter jets/ships/whatever, theyre expensive and difficult to make, but theres still a difference between the blackbird and other stuff.
>>96033132Sicarans, contemptors, leviathans, sabres, jetbikes, power armor (everything after 4 is a downgrade). The general equipment of the imperium got worse over/after the heresy. There was development BEFORE the heresy, but the same is true for terminator armor. Tartaros and cataprachii armor, while difficult to produce, could be produced, and the technology was advancing (cata armor was a specialized tool that proved too unwieldy for some situations, tartaros armor was more advanced and sacrificed some durability for far greater speed and agility). This progress and
>>96033820The real e-gimps are the doomposters. At least wait until the libers have been pirated so you can doompost in truth.
But you fags don't even play games.
>>96033320So following up to this,
>My world eaters lost their +1 attack on the charge>No longer get bonus attacks with their chain axe and pistol>WS chart is still the fucked 2.0 one so my despoilers are fucking worthless>My Legion rule requires me to fail a leadership test, in an edition that wants me to take multiple heroes that have higher leadership, thus making my rule even less likely to go off>nails aren't activated on failing a Cool test from the crack of a sniper rifle, so all the cool checks still fuck me>every single charge, the enemy gets a free phase to shoot their assault weapons at the world eaters without needing to spend any reaction points (I thought this was just pistols)
>world eaters can't afford to shoot while charging, as any kills will halve the chance of your charge succeeding since opponent can just remove the front rank>If you do fail the leadership, you now lose control of your units and are forced to charge into rhinos and shit your opponent intentionally moved in your way>Can intentionally not use the high leadership from my Consols to try to make me fail fasterAlright, I'll probably shelf them and hope the second ruleset for them is better. Maybe finally paint some Imperial fists.
>>96033740Horus Heresy: Collected Visions has several pictures of marines carrying Godwyn pattern bolters even in as early as mk4 armour.
>>96033886>Alright, I'll probably shelf themGood, fuck off back to 40k
>>96033320Your legion rule isnt "gets better in melee", your new legion rule is "never fails LD tests". You have the WB stubborn on absolute crack. The going berserk and better at melee stuff is just a side bonus compared to the main dish, which is "all your units are fearless"
>>9603388410 shrekels have been deposited into your account, shillpost another 36,000 times and you'll finish that bottom surgery your boyfriend has been begging for
>>96033910That is not how hate works anon. I stopped having fun, in 3ed after GW made my two units of jump pack marines (each with a fist and chainsword for parry) illegal. That was a year of money for me, back then to have the "perfect" squads and I have hated and spread it since back then. If I can do it for a few decades, the WE anon can and probably will stay making it "fun" for everyone else too.
>>96033845In most pictures a skull instead of the wing symbol.
Btw: I used that 40k bolter for my Night Lords and painted the skull in bone and the wings in red; nobody is going to look with a magnifying glass.
>>96033884anon, both the marine libres have been posted in parts on telegram in like May. And influancers got their in February.
>>96033886>you now lose control of your unitsOnly if you CHOOSE to have the nails bite. If youre worried this is a ploy by your enemy, just dont, fall back and rally like a normal person. Or move your unit outside of 12" during your charge phase, because this isnt WHFB and you cant be frenzy baited since you charge last.
I genuinely dont understand how you are this upset by a legion rule this insanely good.
I cant comment about the broader melee changes because I dont know how those are going to play out, but the WE legion trait is absolute nutso, and if youre so down on it you can always use the second one theyre going to get for when theyre late heresy retardo mode (which will likely be more combat oriented still)
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>>96032988It's nice how GW can't tell anything but the same story over and over again. I'm sure if they did a DAoT era setting, it'd be a dystopian hellhole full of assholes and everything they created would be worse than what came before.
>>96033046Terrible photoshop from the instructions.
>>96033886'assault' is now a keyword on a weapon, that basically all pistols get, but now that it's a keyword it could go on any gun.
Wouldn't be surprised if something in Sons of Horus, Ravens, White Scars or Space Furries gets 18" bolters with [Assault] keyword for firing them during volley phases. Or maybe it's widespread among Shotguns making it scary to charge alpha legion units.
>>96033934I used Godwyn's because I like the design. Also only one they've outright said to be the Emperor's caliber of .75, while Tigrus is .60 and Phobos is .70 caliber. I like the 2e Mars pattern more, but FW didn't see fit to make an updated version of it and while SoB bolters are a somewhat ok match, they're hard to get in large numbers, come with a front grip and hands that have to be filed off, and are a little smaller than normal marine bolters. Too much hassle to bother with.
>>96033912 Having pseudo stubborn and always winning ties in combat was an awful rule that no one liked. If you lost in combat so hard you needed to rely on your stubborn 6, your unit is already completely fucked, and melee is so one sided this game, you usually never tieing. It made Word Bearers shit for all of second edition, why would a world eater player used to planning around extra attacks in melee ever want to be playing word bearer shit?
It would be funny if Word Bearers got +1 to attacks on the charge though, they just role reversal both legions.
>>96033942>I'm sure if they did a DAoT era setting, it'd be a dystopian hellhole full of assholes and everything they created would be worse than what came before.Except this isnt the story of terminator armor within the context of horus heresy. Tartaros armor, the latest mark, is the BEST terminator armor, its the all round most efficient mark which provides solid mobility while still maintaining the high protection of terminator armor.
Saturnine armor is not the best terminator armor, its the king tiger of terminators. Its an impractical suit of armor which requires very specific pilots and is difficult to maintain and build, its just not an efficient or effective battlefield weapon. Its also the slowest terminator armor, even slower than cataprachii plate which was replaced specifically because it proved too slow and cumbersome.
Its not a wunderwaffe of ages past, a representation of the pinnacle which mankind will never reach again, its like any of the countless failed weapons project of irl, things that are simply too impractical to justify wider use.
>>96033941he's upset because his army was massively nerfed and it's an absolutely terrible legion rule.
No, running backwards for 2 phases in a 4-turn game is not a possible alternative choice for a melee unit than submitting to the nails. You fucking dumpster retard.
If it had been Leadership tests or Cool tests, then it would have been situational but have some use. As it is now it's a complete failure of game design and the enemy will simply stun units which ignores nails or kill them which ignores nails or wound-and-bait them which makes nails a handicap. It's lose-lose.
Why the fuck did vulkan even make the damn thing
>>96033910>HH is a fun more casually narrative game>These rules just dont sound fun and dont inspire me to build this legion>I'll go make a different legion instead>"Go back to 40k reeeee" No one actually plays with you and it shows.
>>96033966We know implacable advance let's you volley fire with any gun with being charged, and that's on saturnine terminators, but I'll bet you money it's also shared with other terminators, or at least caraphractii. What really doesn't make sense is that rule name makes more sense if it let's you volley fire anything ON the charge, so who knows if it's just a warcomm fuck up until we get libers lol.
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>>96033987>Tartaros armor, the latest mark, is the BEST terminator armorThe suit that's suppose to be functionally identical to indomitus (and saturnine)?
Will it be hard for me to get my hands on a saturnine box? Thinkgen of getting into hh
>>96033998>No, running backwards for 2 phases in a 4-turn game is not a possible alternative choice for a melee unit than submitting to the nails. You fucking dumpster retard.Wow, then I guess not having to run away and instead getting better in melee is a good thing!
You cant have it both ways. Letting the nails bite cant be both this terrible drawback which will lose you the game because the enemy will exploit it AND infinitely superior to every other option.
>stunning them which ignores nailsUnless they accidentally cause a LD test, you fail, and then suddenly theyre not stunned any more...
"the legion rule doesent make you immune to LD tests AND every single status (all the time, as opposed to just some of the time)" is a retarded complaint.
>or kill them which ignores nailsYou know what else killing a unit ignores? Every legion rule. "but the enemy just wipes you out!" also applies to the old WE rule you dumbass. Having to be wiped out however, rather than simply taking 25% losses and then running away, is a damn good deal. If your opponent has to kill every single marine in your army then that is a good position to be in.
> wound-and-bait them which makes nails a handicapIf you feel like you are going to get baited if you use the legion rule, dont. You control which units succumb to the nails, you pick the best outcome in any given situation. (you also control where your units move, if you really dont want to charge a unit, simply move away from the enemy, or alternatively move towards the unit you DO want to charge and charge them, you dont need to charge the nearest enemy unit)
>>96033941>Choose to not use the core rule that is supposed to inspire you to play that legion in the first placeWhat a fucking retard
"WE legion trait is absolute nutso"
Its just a variant of the current word bearer rules, and they arent anything noteworthy, if your opponent is already forcing 25% of your squad dead before you even get the chance to take a test, your already fucked, add in the fact that its only a 40% chance to even go off.
And your solutions for having to now game your own units just to avoid the negatives of your own legion rule just feel like rules lawyer bullshit that goes against what little narrative is there. "oh man, I failed my roll, now I have to move away from a rhino my opponent knowingly react moved into my face, because that's what a world eater would do..."
And yeah, it sucks that I have to wait for the late heresy demonic version of their rules. My world Eaters are Istavan themed, after seeing how bad the Emperor Children corrupted rules are, I kinda want nothing to do with it.
>>96034014Yeah, Tartaros was the most advanced one and offered the same protection as the others while leaving the user the most mobile and flexible.
>>96034007>HH is a fun more casually narrative game>new rules get teased>sperg out for a solid week because they're not "viable">paypig for another half-painted army to chase the metaAbsolute nu-40k mindset
>No one actually plays with you and it shows.nobody actually plays here retard
>>96033987>Except this isnt the story of terminator armor within the context of horus heresy. Tartaros armor, the latest mark, is the BEST terminator armor, its the all round most efficient mark which provides solid mobility while still maintaining the high protection of terminator armor.Its not the best, it doesnt actually come with inbuilt teleport homers like the Indomitus could be easily designed to have, there is a reason Indomitus took over once the legions broke into chapters, having the ability to teleport consistently on the base model is far more superior.
>>96034056it'll be easy to find, maybe even half off by black friday. Horus heresy 3.0 sucks dick from all they've shown off the last two months so there won't be any shortages at all.
>>96034087tartaros is the best. The reason Indomitus terminators and boxnaughts are in chapters is because space marines lost the ability to create Contemptor Dreadnoughts and Tartaros terminators.
>>96034101If they were so great, why were they so hard to make even during the Great Crusade?
>>96034014Read it properly, it says nothing about tartaros being identical to indomitus and saturnine, it says many types were being made (including X, Y, Z), and many (non specific ones) were functionally identical.
Also we literally have rules showing all 3 types are in fact not identical, so it's obvious that the unnamed types were the 'functionally identical' ones, hence they are not even worth mentioning by name.
>>96034070Yea anon, you can choose which units succumb to the nails and which dont. Its a case by case basis.
>b-but I need to use it every time because themes and fluff and whateverThen do that, and stop whining about mechanics because you are clearly not playing the game "seriously". There is nothing wrong with narrative play, but dont pretend that this sort of larp is what rules should be balanced around.
> if your opponent is already forcing 25% of your squad dead before you even get the chance to take a testPanic tests for 25% losses are very common, I dont understand where youre coming from. Lost 3HSS to some random fire? Panic test. Got hit with a blast template on your tacticals? Panic test. Every army will take them every game, its not the result of some irrecoverable failure state.
>add in the fact that its only a 40% chance to even go off.You are still looking at it as "the rule is the combat buffs you get", it isnt, those are a borderline irrelevant triviality by comparison (even if theyre still pretty major, those side buffs are still comparable to the entire space wolf trait). The legion rule is "you dont have a 40% chance to lose this unit for a turn".
>rules lawyer bullshitGamey? Yea, probably.
Rules lawyering? Absolutely not.
Nothing about "if you dont want to be baited by the enemy just move away from them" requires stretched interpretation of the rules or counterintuitive and broken RAW readings or whatever.
>"oh man, I failed my roll, now I have to move away from a rhino my opponent knowingly react moved into my face, because that's what a world eater would do..."If youre that broken about the narrative aspect of it? Your word bearers can feel the nails biting in their head and are retreating before they take full hold, trying to prevent them from driving them into a tactical madness (or something).
Im not going to tell you that this use of the rule is super fluffy, it isnt, but it is entirely mechanically feasible
>>96034061Your missing the point they are all making, which is that this is a terrible design for a BASE LEGION RULE.
Space wolves just get +2 inches to their set up move, its simple, no drawbacks, can vary depending on the unit, allowing the Space Wolf player to take that into account to inspire unit choices. They will look at their army list and go "hey, this unit actually gets me to the 6 inch max, I should probably use this", or "Hey, this works nicely with land raiders, so I should prioritize them with my units to ensure I can shut off overwatch and volleys as often as possible".
A random catch up mechanic that literally does nothing until you jump through hoops, and then even if it does proc has a downside baked in? Why would anyone look at that and go "man, that inspires me to play world eaters". It doesn't make you want to do anything unique, your vanilla marines that sometimes rarely
Who goes into game design and decides "hey, some legions should just get their core rules as simple bonuses, the others get rules that conditionally do things that they might not even want". Who looks at that as good game design?
Are World Eaters going to have to spam their legion units to make up for essentially not having a legion rule? Thats what happened to word bearers, they all became Gal Vorbak armies or their spooky plasma gun spam because there was no reason to do anything else with the legion.
>>96034118NTA but
>and manymost of which* and that is referring the the listed patterns. Still, that excerpt is outdated anyway and functionally no longer true.
>>96034061>>96034070>>96033998The WE rules are bad because
A: They're reactive. (You) as the player don't get any extra tactical decisions/considerations/options/advantages, it just lets you ignore some failed ld tests which may or may not ultimately matter.
B:The rules don't help you if you're dead. This seems obvious and 'hurr no legion rules work when you're dead' but with other factions if you kill half their units, the other half still have their bonuses. If you kill half the world eater units, the remaining units have no bonuses at all.
C: Bonuses that help you when you're losing are always gonna be worse than bonuses to help you win to begin with. The fact I can fail a combat because I have no real bonuses, then not get routed is of course useful, but if I just... had a bonus to be better at melee to begin with, the odds of having to even make that moral test to begin with are far lower.
>>96034114Tartaros and contemptors werent? They were rare and expensive, but they saw wide battlefield use and mass adoption. Theyre just more difficult to make than boxnoughts and indomitus armor (which the 40k imperium already struggles to make). The 40k imperium is running on the remnants of fumes.
Think about it this way: the f35 is a superior fighter craft to the f16, but the f16 is cheaper and easier to manufacture. If shit goes south and all your factories get nuked and your economy goes down the shitter, you are probably going to stop making the expensive f35 and move to f16s which might still be enough to get the job done a lot of the time.
>>96034118>we literally have rules showing all 3 types are in fact not identicalBack then they were. There was only Terminator Armour and Cataphractii Terminator Armour.
>>96034135Tartaros was never the same as indomitus, at any point of the rules.
Original rules made it worse defensively than indomitus (6+ invuln) but able to sweep.
Later it was changed to a straight upgrade to indomitus, then in 2.0 it become another weird sidegrade since indomitus got the heavy type.
>>96034128The WE trait is bad in most scenarios. Anyone who says otherwise is either a troll or wanna be hotshot brainiac. It's only good to stay physically on points for scoring. Any army rule is "only when something bad happens you mitigate it or ignore it, etc" is bad by itself. You should always have an active positive trait, not a passive trait that requires only bad things to happen.
>>96034144>Tartaros and contemptors werent?They made the Contemptor-Cortus and Indomitus specifically because they had problems supplying enough of Contemptors and Tartaros.
>>96034154This is the original context. There were only "myriad" patterns suits and cataphractii in the rules. I remember all the arguments it caused. It only got worse when they started to delineate more.
>>96034056No. Pay no heed to guy trying to force the Black Friday meme (but do try to find the biggest discount)
>>96034154Oh you're right, my bad. Which black book did tarty armour become it's own thing?
>>96032570Ferrus's world was hilariously brutal. As in he had to fight a robot dragon to exit his pod, he had to destroy a civilization just to get down from the mountain his pod had crashed on, and he had to destroy a second civilization before he got a full meal with fats and proteins in it.
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>>96034158>Tartaros was never the same as indomitus, at any point of the rules.When HH launched, Indomitus and Tartaros had the same rules.
>Original rules made it worse defensively than indomitus (6+ invuln) but able to sweep.Where are these original rules? I've looked through all the FW books I can find and there's no rules for Tartaros as anything different from Intomitus. Even the Minotaurs character in a Tartaros armour had regular terminator armour by rules.
>>96034125"but dont pretend that this sort of larp is what rules should be balanced around."
tell that to the designers of the fucking game who made this terrible rule lmao.
" (even if theyre still pretty major, those side buffs are still comparable to the entire space wolf trait)"
You cant guarantee they will ever be active when you want them retard, they are NOTHING like a permanent buff you can play and build around.
" The legion rule is "you dont have a 40% chance to lose this unit for a turn"."
OR, you take advantage of the game wanting more heroes and just never worry about this shit because you took chaplains and higher leadership units. The very changes to army comps and the addition to cool make leadership less of a direct threat, so having to waste your legion rule for another layer of redundancy is just a waste.
"Rules lawyering? Absolutely not."
"See, I know the Hero raises the leadership of the squad, but I'm going to exploit that the rule book says I dont HAVE to use the highest leadership to allow me to get around a natural downside of buying heroes"
Thats peak rules lawyer bullshit you will have to explain to every new person you play with and every single one will see you as a jackass when you fail because of it.
Like, this edition has already reduced attacks across the board, so having an additional attack on the charge would have been way more impactful and rewarding this edition, don't see why they removed it for something my assault squad with a chaplain attached already didnt need.
The rule exists so they could put leadership and cool in a legion rule, so they can act like its going to be super relevant, they did the same thing with Chaos Knights in 40k, make their core army rule be all about battleshock because they updated battle shock and needed some faction to interact with it, and it ended up being horrible, ruined the faction for multiple years until they got a new book that functions completely differently.
>>96034200Think it was the red Age of Darkness Army List.
>>96034220NTA. First red book lists Tartaros (then Tartarus) as having the ability to sweep, but otherwise being the same as standard terminator.
>>96034128The legion rule isnt "sometimes better at melee", the legion rule is "never fails LD tests". The sometimes being better at melee thing is just a nice little side dish the designers threw in because they like WE so much.
You can argue its not very interesting or very inspiring, thats a very subjective point which I cant refute. If you find the SW trait interesting and cool or find the WE one boring then you are correct (in regards to your personal evaluation of the rules). But this isnt the same as the rule being weak.
>>96034162>You should always have an active positive trait, not a passive trait that requires only bad things to happen.In terms of "this is weak/strong"? No, youre absolutely full of shit. Nothing about passive/reactive traits is necessarily weak.
If some legion had their legion rule be "fearless" or stubborn in 2.0 that legion would be insane (or at the very least good, other equipment and RoW pending of course)
>>96034143>1Reactive/passive traits are not in any way inherently weak or bad.
>2The bonus is "you had to wipe out units to the man". This imposition on what the enemy has to do - forcing a kill rather than letting them cripple a large number of units - is itself a benefit.
>3Yes, its better to have a bonus always. No, a bonus which helps you lose less/come back from bad situations is not inherently weaker than a bonus you always get.
>>96033937Where would one find these?
>>96034237>If some legion had their legion rule be "fearless" or stubborn in 2.0 that legion would be insaneGreat, not saying the trait should be an always-on version. I didn't say passive traits are bad. I said passive traits that require a negative to activate are bad. Having shrouded 5+ would be a great passive and doesn't require something bad to happen like losing a quarter of your squad. Again, this trait is great on Tacticals farming objectives because they stay in place regardless of death but shit the second the get pinned or the WE wants to charge something.
>>96034224>tell that to the designers of the fucking game who made this terrible rule lmao.The ones who balanced it like a rule for a game, rather than a narrative imposition for people who really want to larp as berserkers? The rule has a "may" clause for a reason. If you want to disregard it because you dont feel its thematic thats fine, but thats on you.
>You cant guarantee they will ever be active when you want them retardOh no, you arent fearless AND get a 2nd entire legion trait all the time. The horror.
>just never worry about this shit because you took chaplains and higher leadership units.You know stubborn is gone right? That chaplain is running from that panic(3) thing just fine.
>"See, I know the Hero raises the leadership of the squad, but I'm going to exploit that the rule book says I dont HAVE to use the highest leadership to allow me to get around a natural downside of buying heroes"Thats also not rules lawyering. But its ALSO also not anything I mentioned or talked about.. And therefore not relevant.
>don't see why they removed it for something my assault squad with a chaplain attached already didnt need.For one its because a chaplain (probably) doesent do that any more. Stubborn and fearless are - as far as we know from the leaks (or at least ive seen) gone. There is no more easy way to make sure your units never run away. And now you also have a lot more weapons with LD modifiers to their tests/a lot more tests going around in general.
>>96034237>You can argue its not very interesting or very inspiring, thats a very subjective point which I cant refute.Which is bad, why the fuck should a legion central rule ever be bland or bad? It shouldn't.
" If you find the SW trait interesting and cool or find the WE one boring then you are correct (in regards to your personal evaluation of the rules)."
No, objectively, after decades of warhammer existing, its been so plainly shown that always active proactive rules are better the conditional catch up mechanics. Your a retard who doesn't play the game at all to think otherwise.
"Nothing about passive/reactive traits is necessarily weak."
Your a retard who doesn't play the game.
"If some legion had their legion rule be "fearless" or stubborn in 2.0 that legion would be insane"
Word Bearers literally had this kind of rule, it was the worst base legion rule in the game. So now we know you don't even play the current edition.
Your just being a contrarian about a game you know nothing about.
>>96034264>said passive traits that require a negative to activate are badThe WE rule requires a negative to activate in the same way that a universal fearless would require a negative to activate. The activation isnt the thing that comes after the negative, its in denying the negative (the failed LD test and its consequences). WE never rout, they never panic. They never suffer any consequence for failing LD tests in any context if they dont wish to.
The rule isnt "get better at charging if you fail LD", its "never fail LD"
>>96034272"Your a retard"
Nta but kys just for that
>>96034264>Again, this trait is great on Tacticals farming objectivesOr HSS, which will now never take a stray hit and run out of position, or large units of despoilers that want to hold something up in combat, or just when you want to move up the field while taking fire.
Its just generally good, it is however not catered for melee units in the same way the old rule was.
>>96034272Dude used your thrice and used it wrong every time.
ESLs put in full force today
>>96033886Sweet. Fuck off you whining faggot.
You can never please whiny fucking chaos players.
>>96033820Get a trip FAGGOT.
Stop trying to make your faggot little catchphrase a thing.
>>96034286Which is a useless mechanic in a game where failing a leadership test isnt as relevant anymore, because half of the conditions that would normally protect are gone.
"Your assault army is now worse by every leak and rule that has been shown, but dont worry, we arent giving you anything to help you in shooting or any other aspect of the game, just make it so while your losing you might lose slightly less on a 40% chance."
What a retard to think that makes up for anything. No one wants "maybe I wont run away once or twice a game" to be the core rule to a fucking legion that is supposed to be good at fighting.
>>96034272>Which is badIn your personal opinion. Because the thing stated wasnt "the rule is bland and boring", but "you can believe it is". You find whatever you find boring or bland boring and bland. Its an entirely subjective taste.
>its been so plainly shown that always active proactive rules are better the conditional catch up mechanics.Yea, reactive mechanics like "well be back" have famously never been strong. Please larp less. Passive/reactive rules in warhammer have been strong or even broken plenty of times, literally every single defensive trait is passive or reactive.
>Your a retard who doesn't play the game.Youre*
Also see above.
>it was the worst base legion rule in the gameThe WB trait is absolutely not weaker than many other legion traits. Its not the strongest trait, but it is very solid (as are WB in general). What are you on about?
The WB trait on steroids, which is what the new WE trait/the proposed "fearless" trait are, would be insane.
>>96034308Cool then go play the 'Circle edition' or whatever.
You won't like 3.0 so I guess you can fuck off and leave this thread too. Awesome.
>>96034286>its "never fail LD"Not as good as you think. The only reason this isn't the worst legion trait ever created is that you can choose not to activate the nails so you can fall back on your opponents turn to shoot the unit you just got beat up by in melee. With sweeps gone gone and heavy not snap firing, leadership is way less important now.
>>96034308>Which is a useless mechanic in a game where failing a leadership test isnt as relevant anymore>introduce more LD tests than ever>remove all of the ways of mitigating LD tests available prior>less relevant than everAre you stupid? Or did you just see "well not everything is an LD test now so I guess they dont matter"
>>96034297>Its just generally good, it is however not catered for melee units in the same way the old rule was.Reasonable take, but I need to mulch marines with my melee gear, and I'm a little concerned I won't be able to.
I haven't seen any method of gaining extra attacks aside from the Nails. So, uh? What makes a Despoiler mechanically different from a Tac with a chainsword? "He's cheaper bc he doesn't have a rifle" isn't an acceptable answer.
>>96034333there's not "more LD tests than ever", retard. There's less than ever before as they removed leadership tests and made them Cool tests or Willpower tests, neither of which the nails work against.
>>96034330>Not as good as you thinkIts possible. But I HIGHLY doubt that (or that it isnt good anyways). Thats the sort of gimmick/mechanic which has historically been very nice.
>>96034336>So, uh? What makes a Despoiler mechanically different from a Tac with a chainsword?That I have no idea about, maybe they have 2A base now? But really that sort of thing both goes beyond any specific legion trait and requires seeing the specific statlines and rules for weapons. If melee is just bad in general (which is entirely possible) then obviously WE melee wont be very good, but that issue would probably still exist even if they had the old trait.
>>96034307Take a couple seconds to read through the reply chain and see what I am saying.
>>96034294What a pussy
>>96034286And then your entire unit gets pinned because somehow "never rout doesnt matter to anything that involves half the status effects now". So its a bad rule, that is even more irrelevant in the new edition and narratively is inconsistent because of bad rule writing?
>>96034324>"Well be back" Oh is this the part where you post a rule that is always active and properly baked into the entire faction as a second form of armor save and comparing it to a conditional buff?
>The WB trait is absolutely not weaker than many other legion traits.Its the worst in the game, PERIOD, you can do literally nothing with it and when its relevant your already losing. Even the shitty outnumber mechanics that half the time don't work are better game design. Word Bearer players were all just Gal Vorbak spammers, because there was nothing else notable about the legion's rules.
>>96034297No one is throwing strays at a unit like HSSs that can return fire. You actively only want to utterly kill the unit when you shoot them, you dont want them to fall back or stay put, you want them dead.
Why would you EVER take despoilers in an edition where they went from 4 attacks with the world eater buff, to 2 on the charge in this edition?
Your not factoring in that part of the negative is LOSING an already good legion rule to have this shit.
Art dump now or wait until new thread?
>>96034422Wait for the new thread.
>>96034324Anon this is real simple game design. Active or positive bonuses are better gameplay because they give more agency to the player, and in the case of war dollies, lets the player lean/build into a legion's traits. i.e. space wolves are fast on foot and get charge bonuses, so it makes sense to have lots of melee guys on foot.
Passive/negating traits might not even come into play - you can't plan around it or build around it in any meaningful way (unless you're gonna argue building units to deliberately get killed to force yourself to try fail more moral tests is a strategy).
As the other anon said, traits to help you loss less badly are far shittier than traits that simply help you be less likely to lose in the first place.
If WE unit gets into melee with another melee legion, with actual bonuses, WE are at a straight disadvantage. If they lose the melee, fail their moral test and turn on the nails then yes, that is of course 100% better than failing and running away, but WE in that case are still in the losing situation, now likely even more skewed because you lost most of your guys in the first round of combat.
Or to put it another way, as clearly as I possibly can: You don't need better moral rules if you can actually win combat to begin with.
On top of this, combat in general has lost all bonuses to attacks, so WE players are pretty justifiably salty that not only is the entire edition geared far less towards their legion's gimmick, but the legion itself has had its combat bonuses neutered in all but severely negative situations.
>>96034503>the butcher's nails are retarded and helpful>despoiler-based attrition tactics are wastefulholy fluffy
>>96032625They still make that terrain anon
I bought some like two weeks ago
>>96034662I should have specified. I ain't paying 60-80 bucks for a building corner if I can print it and spray it grey.
>>96030582What are those missiles O.O
>>96034682Anti-titan hellion missile.
>>96032625https://www.myminifactory.com/object/3d-print-domina-ferrum-291566
Look through the community photos to get an idea of what's in there, it's a lot.
>>96034744Oh neat, cheers
>>96032471>Who the fuck knows what the tech enclave on phoebe(?)Is it just me who is assuming this is an autocorrect of Phobos that a lack of proofreading didn't fix?
>>96033347>It solves multiple issues for GW, why it was hard to make, and why its not a 40k kit.And lets them potentially release a Primaris Librarian in Neo-Saturnine Terminator Armour kit in a few years
>>96033912Which is as retarded as giving DG the IW rules
>>96034405>No one is throwing strays at a unit like HSSs that can return fireThat is literally how you kill (or at least deal with) HSS a lot of the time. Whittle them down with light fire from units that arent significant enough to merit a reaction compared to whatever else is going on. Are you stupid?
>you dont want them to fall back or stay put, you want them dead.You WANT units dead, you want lots of things, that does not mean you have the means to easily kill them. More often than not units are not wiped out in a single volley or turn, not without significant concentration of firepower and subsequent overkill. Do you exist in some nonsensical nogames world where units are either entirely alive or entirely dead because obviously everything either dies in one round of shooting or doesent get touched at all? Let me guess, no one has ever had to take LD tests for taking casualties right?
>Why would you EVER take despoilers in an edition where they went from 4 attacks with the world eater buff, to 2 on the charge in this edition?Because charging someone with tactical marines just isnt a very good plan? "oh woe is me melee is le bad now" or whatever all you want, its not relevant to this conversation. If melee as an entire playstyle is no longer viable then frankly consider losing the previous trait a blessing.
>Your not factoring in that part of the negative is LOSING an already good legion rule to have this shit.Youre*
And do you think everyone else just gets two legion traits now? Is the NL 2.0 trait bad now because they "lost" their 1.0 trait to get it? Is that how that works in your demented mind?
>>96034405>that is always activeIts always active in the same way the WE trait is always active you dipshit, thats how passive defensive buffs work. If you dont take any wounds well be back does nothing. If you never lose combat unbreakable or its various variations do nothing, if you never get shot the IH legion trait does nothing. That doesent matter, those things are still powerful.
>Its the worst in the game, PERIODLmao.
>you can do literally nothing with it and when its relevant your already losingYes, and it stops you losing more. It means that no matter how much you lose combat by you will always have at least a 42% chance of holding. This is good you dipshit. It is a (lesser) form of stubborn, which also does nothing unless you get hit, but is also really good.
>Even the shitty outnumber mechanics that half the time don't work are better game designThe NL legion trait is fantastic? What the fuck are you on about.
>Word Bearer players were all just Gal Vorbak spammers>legion players take the iconic unique legion unit, anon shockedIn other news did you know salamanders players take firedrakes, AL take headhunters and space wolves take grey stalkers? I also hear that iron warriors like tyrant siege terminators, surprising I know!
Gal Vorbak were not particularly good (if at all) in 2.0 (they also probably wont be in 3.0, but thats besides the point). Theyre an okay power armor blender that struggles into the dominant melee elites of the edition, and are just worse than say a terminator command squad for similar points. The Mhara Gal is good, but that actively makes Gal Vorbak worse (even if it aesthetically complements them and subsequently people sometimes take both).
Its also amusing you go on about how "all WB players do is take gal vorbak" when they have one of the most "hands off" and free rites of war (dark brethren), its literally the legion with possibly the least restrictive and most versatile "legion playstyles"
>>96029059 (OP)I'm sick of pretending anymore. Saturine scale is shit, the models look like shit the new edition rules look like arse, I'm not buying the box set. I'm already insane enough without reading your AI vomited diarrhoea. I also can't be fucked about the gay turret that would basically serve as terrain for me. I really like the Mark 2, and I even bought the transfer sheet for my dream white scars army. My play group is sticking with our homebrew 1.0/2.0. GW, you're still getting money from breachers, mark II assault and tacticals from me, and I hate it. This game should have stayed in 7th edition. My game group is probably going to fall apart and I will become my true calling of a paintfag. You are niggerfaggots
Anyone here know where to find the rouboutian heresy rules? What's the opinion on alternate hereies?
