Previous Heresy:
>>96056608>HH 3.0 Leakshttps://imgur.com/a/C7NLFxm
https://imgur.com/a/ThwkCe3
https://imgur.com/a/jYokLre
https://imgur.com/a/8EaFmTM
And more
>New Edition Soonโขhttps://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>New to The Horus Heresy? Hereโs Everything Youโll Need to Get Startedhttps://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/30/new-to-the-horus-heresy-heres-everything-youll-need-to-get-started/
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8
https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS
>30k TACTICA & TIPShttps://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/2.0_Tactics/General_Tactics
>MEGAs are down for the time being, going to wait for things to cooldown with the new edition and leaks before bringing them back upใAdeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialisใ
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloadshttps://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/
>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colourshttps://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview
>More listshttps://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions
>What size magnets do I need?5x1mm
>Tacticshttps://1d6chan.miraheze.orug/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics
It's over.
mech leaks time!
reposting the ones from last thread first
>>96059097Chaplains don't have ANY rules, just a Crozius.
>>96059100kindly post the damn liber special rules
>"it's over
OP is a fag
Me and my legion boys are so back!
>>96059113confirmation that you just look cooler on abeyant
>>96059113had a problem uploading this one earlier
>>96059111That's just fucking retarded
>>96059111I am almost certain thats either a mistake or its missing a 2nd page or something. No way theyre entirely vanilla.
>>96059082Basically the same as last edition, isn't it? They just win combat on a tie. Sort of fits as fanatics.
>>96059097>or ignore restrictions on 3.0 sheets if Legacies doesn't save the day. If you want a jump pack on a Chaplain pay the extra points, easy.I have proposed that very thing to my group.
>>96059111Exactly, meaning You add X points manually and say "He has a jump pack". If anyone presents me a model that is fully painted and based during a game and says "This was a legal HQ in 2.0" I am going to approve it on the spot.
Is this game good for a new wargaymer? I like the bearers of the word.
>>96059127THANATAR TIME!
RIP squads of the bad boys
>>96059116just posting what I have unfortunately
>>96059121they don't know it yet, but they will die in each and every game
The more leak I read the weirder the liber books are starting to look, not straight up 'bad' or 'terrible,' but 'bizarre.'
I can understand typo or misprint, I can also understand geedew being a dick and restricting options,
but how on holy terra are they restricting squad loadout to something that's doesn't exist??? Tartaros termies have power fist as default, and only 1 power weapon reserved for sergeant!
Just how!
>>96059139Sure, the rules just got a fairly big shake up, so you'd be starting on fairly even ground, maybe even with an advantage as the grogs have to filter the old rules out.
>>96059151has anyone got the wording for Ordnance?
>>96059143>Thanatars can use a Triaros as a clown carOkay the Liber's are all retarded but at least some of them are retarded in a fun way
>>96059154New tartaros kit.
>>96059143the Transport Type says only infantry and paragons can embark, does the triaros have an exception?
Does anyone have the rules for the Anathemata psychic discipline? Apparently that's what the WB diabolist upgrade gives but it's mentioned way earlier in the book and wasn't screen shotted from what I could see.
I fear that they're literally just esoterists now
What's the point of the Optae when Centurions exist?
>>96059160Double the characteristic if you didn't move
>>96059100Have you got the contents pages for Mechanicum?
>>96059167They're doing their best.
>>96059166>>96059084 (OP)https://mega.nz/folder/
o1lmkIRC#IiK-WhZtLghM25krZran9A
I still don't understand why Destroyers are gone. GW still sells Destroyers.
>>96059154Gw fucking up copy pastes is nothing new and it was bound to be even worse when they decided to change the formating for no reason
>>96059117What's the SoH traits?
Genuinely happy if SoH are good for the first time in 15 years
>>96059163STOP! DON'T GIVE ME HOPE!
... I might forgive GW by a little if they release 3e along with refreshed cata and tartaros boxes... not much, but a little
>>96059167They are much cheaper
>>96059182
>>96059184The same reason why Tartaros lost their power fists, were on Mr. bones wild ride
>>96059191and thats all i have
iirc each techno-arcana has its own detachment
>>96059189Las rheead said volly fire at full BS
>>96059191Stop putting that shit over stats! I can barely read the graviton entry
>>96059137You may, anon, have missed that Chaplains also don't get Hatred or anything. Specifically they get Nothing (zilch)
>>96059182>Page 34 - 36>EsoteristYou have to be kidding me
Other Seattle anon, I see you in the Discord posting shit
>>96059154The only non retarded explanation I can come up with is that they might reveal new Tartoros at the preview on the 18th and they might have cut back on weapon options to save space on the sprue if they come in boxes of 10
I feel like a dirty shill typing this, how do redditors live with themselves?
>>96059206if they didnt crop them out because "waaa fuck pardo is bad!" then i wouldnt have
>>96059192Anon we have seen the new cata already...
>>96059099>My IW and DG have shit legion traits>The WS I wanted to start also have shit legion traits.
(you)
md5: f2a3acfdbe7198c7b2247b1ce8a3f71a
๐
>>96059084 (OP)>TFW just started painting my istvaan 3 EC army with tarvitz cant wait for rylanor to be forgotten!
>>96059189They can fire volley weapons at full ballistic skill.
POST ZARDU
POST ZARDU LAYAK YOU FUCKING NIGGERS
>>96059100Do you have table of Contents and Decimators if they survived?
>>96059127What did Pardo do?
>>96059121HQ edition. Survivors on the right.
At some point you have to start wondering if they're fucking it up on purpose so they can sell whole new books down the line with the fixed rules. This starts to feel like such a clusterfuck of bad writing you have to question at which point does it stop being plain stupidity and become malice?
Anyone know what the new augury scanners do?
>>96059231see the last image i posted anon, decimators live
>>96059221What is the IW trait?
>>96059226Let's bear this sin together brother
part 1/2
>>96059245Counter shrouded
>>96059255Smartest word bearer
>>96059240real shame considering how many of them are painted
>>96059217BUT NOT TARTAROS! IT IS IMPOSSIBLE! NO WAY GEEDEW WOULD RELEASE TWO SUPER ANTICIPATED KITS ON THE SAME DAY, RIGHT? RIGHT??
>>96059255im actually retarded
>WB special prime benefit is Zealous Assualt
>WB special aux references the True Beleiver prime benefit not in their rules
At least Erebus is still kino
>>960592262/2
>>96059264I watch vtubers all day please excuse the brain damage
>>96059265I just finished the Siege Breaker and Chappy last month. I just assembled the Primus medicae over the weekend. I feel worse for the IF player who made one of each.
ken
md5: 807631baf5bb404b44b668a19cadd8f3
๐
did they seriously just remove jump packs from all the consuls???
Are they pulling our leg with these wargrear restrictions?
>>96059247Ignore leadership penalties from shit like shell shock.
>>96059247They don't get negative modifiers from stuff like Pinning.
>>96059273What do you think this is, a specialist game?
>>96059273Check out how inspiring Chaplains are now,.Kenon
I just realized Lucius's special rule to gain additional focus in challenges only refers to the vanilla EC gambit. It doesn't interact with the hereticus gambit at all. The corrupted heretic somehow plays worse with the corrupted heretic RoW.
I don't like being negative but this seems like a total loss for the Word Bearers. Not even talking in terms of power, just all the flavor and fun part besides Gal Vorbak...
>>96059121Good bye, my alpha legion blood angels angel's tears with assault cannons. I hardly knew you.
>>96059243I legitimately think a lot will be added back in the splat books. If you're already shilling them day 1 you're expecting them to be a money spinner.
>worst WE trait (the one they previewed) is a package deal with one of the best aux detachments (apothecary and troop spam)
>>96059271>you can mind control an enemy thanatorFucking aylmao
>>96059207Ah so they simply dont do anything. That is just silly. These books definitely have typo by omissions.
>>96059292GW does seem to be pushing status effects
It may not be exciting but it could be good
Do IW not have shrapnel bolters an option either anymore?
>>96059287>dedicate tons of rule changes to their stupid challenge phase dick measuring contest>you cant even customize your own guy anymore what did they mean by this?
>>96059296After budling a champion with a jump pack and a chaplain this week I dont think I wanna know
>>96059297Am I an EC charging? Cuz I have become stupefyed
>Erebus still WS5
Why do they keep forgetting that he's actually supposed to be a good fighter?
He was only a little less skilled than Lucius.
>>96059263>Augury scanners no longer destroy infiltrating>AL buffed in pretty much every wayIt's fucking over, can't wait to be facing dynat infiltrating a ten man melts squad in my asshole
>>96059302Was this a unit? Flying rotor cannons?
>>96059313No, TS also lost asphyx
>>96059121Also my praetor on bike. I will miss him the most. In first edition he smoke the fuck out of a ruinstorm HQ, forget what they were called then.
>>96059326IH lost access to Graviton Shredders (kept the pistol though), and lost access to the "swap a flamer for a Graviton Shredder"
goodbye, Graviton Shredder Support Squad.
>>96059321>Augury scanners not causing multiple free interceptor against a single unitAt least the one unit that deepstrikes wont get deleted?
>>96059313Nope. Fuck you.
Willing to bet shit like this will pop up in thr DlC books later. Suck my dick GW.
>>96059182What weird fucking format did some retard upload the Command profiles? You can't fucking read them.
Can someone post the praevian profile?
>>96059314Chaplain Special Rules:
โข Nothing (Zip)
โข Zilch (Nada)
[Spoiler]100% serious. Almost no way this isn't a huge oversight/fuckup[/Spoiler]
Legacies will make everything worse.
Dear leaker anon, do Siege Tyrants still exist?
>>96059201Do you have the castallax or did I miss it
The 30k discord is crying about the leaker using rude words
>>96059309>These books definitely have typo by omissions.>Chaplain mostly a generic template>Exodus inst Unique>Gorgans are missing bolters>Tartaros of all flavor copy paste missing fists and chain fistsWhat other things are suspiciously gone?
>>96059346willing to bet that everything in the old Legacies will be gone and it'll just be the stuff taken away going from 2.0 to 3.0
>>96059182is this everything? for marines I mean
>>96059358>Exodus inst UniqueThat's a feature, not a typo.
>>96059351Yes, 4 s5ap6d1breaching6+ or 1 s9ap3d1heavy(d)armorbane, 5 men for 300pts
>>96059351Yes they do. Go look in the Mega.
>>96059338>no grav mace eitherI had hopes after TOW allowed weapons not buildable by kits.
Also wtf shrapnel bolters are literally just bolters.
need an edit of this with lernaen terminators and weapon options
>>96059366We're missing some generic units.
>>96059358Exodus has never been Unique, it's by design
He's the one who is many
>>96059379TOWfags should be shitting themselves right now
>>96059357I'm lurking in the Discord. Codewalrus is actively monitoring the channels and removing all traces of the leaks with text about him, kek. By the way, I found this comment he made earlier today.
>>96059366No, no Apothecaries, Techmarines
>domitars and thanatar Caliber are AP3
>still only D2 when dreadnought melee is D3 or D4
Holy shit this is actually spite, there's genuinely no reason for this
>>96059154Grok started calling for total nigger death in the middle of writing the rules so GW had to do some emergency edits.
God I hate the stat cards of this edition
"R, FP, RS" this shit is retarded
I think Erebus might have the lowest IN of any high command marine in either liber.
>>96059357I'm talking about how shit these changes are and everyone in my local's discord are saying why I can't be excited for anything
Like half my units and HQs are either straight up illegal loadouts or had their usefullness dropped off a cliff you think I'm gonna dance a jig?
>>96059409>erebus rides the short bus
>>96059409Although of course he's rivaled by Corn Phaeron.
>>96059412you can argue with consoomers theyre not human
>>96059389I'll be honest.
I am.
I'm now down to just TOW as the only GW game I like.
>>96059416Sehkmet got special weapons too, didn't they? And variable armor?
>>96059409>>96059422>erebus and phaeron are retarded So this is why Lorgar sent them to die at calth...
hey boys,
i'm trying to figure out if i'm selling off my Reductor
how much archmagos customization do we have this edition?
do we get more than one high techno arcana this edition?
>>96059368>>96059386How many Exodus can one fit in a list I wonder.
>>96059416You forgot Sekhmet get the plastic option now too. Which actually makes sense because the kit is an resin upgrade to said plastics.
She'll die to a stiff breeze but at 85 points Lotara seems useful.
Any idea as to what the "true believers" prime advantage is? The prime advantage for WB's is called something else entirely, "zealous assault". I'd assumed that maybe there was a page missing but the next page number is Lorgar's entry
>>96059427How are Chaos Knights with Barding this edition?
Why the fuck do the most inane, braindead rules have these bold explanations that add nothing? And why do some of the more verbose bullshit rules lack those very same explanations?
>>96059439>How many Exodus can one fit in a list I wonder.How many can you fit in your ass? LOL!
>One of the IW detachments requires Arquitor Bombards
No, James, I will not buy your Resin vehicles.
>>96059434They're just a little slow is all. Red Butchers are retarded.
>>96059439>How many Exodus can one fit in a list I wonder.9 assuming allied detachments are limited to half your total army points, in a 3k list.
9 AL allied detachments with an Exodus each come out to 1485
>>96059357He gave me a realistic panic attack.
>>96059459>not even basilisks or medusassovless
>>96059454They didn't proofread
>>96059478same as last edition why are you surprised
billion dollar company btw
>>96059476>Better formatting for the>lizard shit rulesWell we see how their priority item was completed
>>96059455Good, because cavalry is good, but a bit over priced. Also they were finally given counter-charge in the errata so they're better than they were about a month ago.
>>96059357Jesus Christ, they're complete fucking pussys, I thought people like this died out with tumblr
I was painting and 2 threads passed by, do we have pictures of the NL rules? I just found Curze while scrolling.
>leaker anon is finally schizo-watermarking his images, just like I've been suggesting for weeks
>>96059434>>96059461>Red Butchers are retarded.And so am I.
>>96059449>those hecking no-good anti-Fauci chuds on 4chan ruin everything!
>>96059489You gotta virtue signal under username, Anon, what if people think you're not sympathetic like they give the most minute shit about you
>>96059489Trajan is a troon and constantly pushes femstodea
>>96059489we should also add xenophobic to that list
>>96059489What is dead may never die
>>96059459I got 3 printed by a friend. Except they are still AP 4 in 3.0 and thus dogshit.
>>96059449>Discuss about the impact of 4Channers on Orks.
40k chads dropping by to say it isn't too late to apologize and embrace PRIMVRIS BVLLS.
>>96059489Tumblr became Twitter and Twitter became the normie internet.
>>96059534Why does he have Tron lines all over?
>>96059534>Optic blocked by 6ft of pic rail and a giant front sight post
>>96059552LEAK ANON WHERE ARE THE SLURS
DISCORD TRANNIES ARE COPYING YOUR SHIT RIGHT NOW
>>96059502I don't understand why the option to arm them as normal cata was deleted
>>96059191>Pair of power blades AP 3>Breaching shred 5+Spicy.
>>96059552>S10 7" pieplateGive it to me, baby
>always misses, 2 diceOh it's AIDS
>>96059582Not in the kit. Fuck you.
>>96059552>>96059572Just post more images with text calling Walrus a troon.
NO LIGHTNING CLAWS
JAAAAMES
WHERE ARE THE LIGHTNING CLAWS
>>96059454>>96059422>>96059409Looks like we need the second pages for these two and True Believers
Also Argel Tal and the special units
The Warmaster decrees: Posting of leaks must accompanied by based and redpilled phrases to own the Loyalists.
>>96059612Argel Tal and the special units are on the Mega
>>96059611What the fuckโฆ.
>>96059611Stop posting un-defaced pages
Can we get some vehicle data sheets, maybe I can figure out how many land raider variants they killed
>>96059611>WHERE ARE THE LIGHTNING CLAWSin the Sergeant Melee Weapons list? They cost 10 points.
>>96059650Can you take a pair
>both old resin Templar Brethren and the new converted ones carry Combat Shields
>the rules make no mention of those
>>96059670The mega link is in the thread, stop asking to be spoonfed
>>96059670no. But even a Praetor can't.
>>96059409This is clearly sabotage by a vindictive loyalistfag on the writing team.
>>96059600d6 scatter on 7" is totally fine
>>96059674They literally do you retard
>>96059674Read nigga read
This genuinely feels like the leakers got handed a joke book.
>Incoming transmission
>Interrupting leaks
>Ruining image limit
Finally had enough spare time to take some pics of my entire AL collection. Had to stand against the wall opposite side of the room to get it all in shot. Apologies for the poor image quality, only have a 18 year old digital camera
>>96059698Cope manifests itself in bizarre ways...
>>96059698Individual books with unique typos to track down leakers even.
>>96059698The punchline is (You)'re a dumb faggot for liking Horus Heresy DOHOHOHOHO
>>96059267>Zardu Kayak>EXPLODES 6+Fluffy
Have we seen Death Guard's stuff?
>>96059705Hell yeah. That's the type of collection a long form campaign would rock with.
>>96059716Some close ups next
Land raiders sire, please
>>96059571Actually, that specific scope is mounted to the right side of the front sight post and rail. Some of the scopes are like that.
I wonder how many WE armies got fucked by cadere being rampager-only
>>96059742Nice Ultramarines
>>960596902d6", Barrage(2)
>>96059698I'd like to thank Pardo for freaking out and accidently confirming that these leaks are genuine, because if he hadn't I would struggle to believe pic related was real
>>96059707I mean I have 20 tacticals and a deredeo. I am not very invested. I hated 2.0 for core rules, and I'm just waiting for full rules pdf to decide if I play 3.
>>96059742huh that's a big legionary
Did leaker anon get got the thread seems a bit quieter?
Nobody asked for a new edition. There was zero demand for one.
I am deeply offended, and my rage is boundless!
>>96059766I'm a shareholder and I asked for one.
>>96059743The only people putting Caedere weapons on characters were Falax-blade abusing WAACfags, no pity for them.
>>96059742Should look into getting a new camera sometime, it's so hard to get remotely decent pics out of this old thing
>>96059774what's that deredeo conversion made of?
>>96059766The shareholders' demand for profit is as eternal as it is insatiable.
>>96059765No, we just all have the mega now and there's a lot in it.
>>96059774Close up of a random legionary
>>96059722That's kind of how the collection happened. There's a very active HH playing community here, doing a lot of campaigns.
>>96059782Entirely scratch build with a lot of stuff from the bits box, plastic card, and greenstuff.
high5
md5: 70fb77fae74a3a94dd49f52dbfa6cb54
๐
>>96059334>goodbye, Graviton Shredder Support Squad.Grav guns are completely different now so it's not a bit lose desu. The grav change pisses me off more...
>>96059803got any dorito closeups
>>96059765Not the leaker but I'm honestly exhausted myself thinking about all of this shit and reading through it so I'm just going to sleep at this point.
>>96059313This is what we get for demanding bayonets on legion bolters
What new was even introduced in 2.0 that's worth backporting? The Kratos, Daemon Engines, Armistoses, Mortifactors? Is that it?
leak anon here who leaked the mech stuff
im not the original leak anon, i just got DM'd this stuff by a friend and thought I'd share with "watermarks" to piss people off
I dont have any more leaks if you're wondering, what I do have is that myrmidons can still take all the same weapon options, but cant mix weapon options on the same guy
also fuck pardo (one more time)
>>96059312It's pretty good. The armory is filled with that shit. I've seen pinning(3)
>>96059741Nigga that's even more retarded. Offset scopes are offset towards the shooter. How the fuck are you even supposed to crank your neck to use that shit? Put your chin centerline with the bore?
>>96059749>You don't understand. He needs to be armed specifically with either a volkite serpenta or a combi-melta to go with his paragon blade!It's even more retarded than Chaplains having "Special Rules: None"
>>96059822Some of the weapons and weapon profiles from HH2 should be backported to HH1, such as Disintegrator weapons, and the Alchem weapon rules.
>>96059358The Varagyr weapon options :'(
Wait, what the fuck does master of the legion even do!
>>96059836very cool, feels like lucius pattern warhound sensibilities
>>96059705Rock on you sneaky fuck
>>96059821>This is what we get for demanding bayonets on shrapnel boltersNo, this is. Slower hammer with nothing to show for it
Have they shared the Despoilers or Tacs datasheet yet? Interested to see just why World Eaters get to swpa out their chainsword for a chainaxe for free, if it's already free.
Any vehicles with armor leaked?
>>96059854>Have they shared the Despoilers...Anon
>>96059837>the Alchem weapon rules.Wdym? Hh1 already has alchem weapons.
>>96059433>variable armor?Doesn't specify but they have the rules for cataphractii. Tho it's not a warger option so I guess you can play slow tartaros now?
>>96059552>AP3I HATE LoMfaggotry by the rules team much it's unreal
>>96059858Anon, today's threads have had like 2000 posts among them. Some of us are just logging in; must've missed something
>>96059861Well at least the kopesh have okay rules.
>>96059858despoilers are in the Contents, destroyers are the missing one. regardless, haven't been posted.
>>96059600Why would not drop a 7 inch blast every turn? It's hilarious
>>96059876No I love it, just we're not even allowed a BS3 in a shooting edition
>>96059502>>96059502Oh shit, eternal warrior and breaching 4+ axes are really great.
4A on the charge is very nice this edition too.
I'm afraid to ask about ravening madmen tho...
>>96059828>Offset scopes are offset towards the shooter.Not always.
>How the fuck are you even supposed to crank your neck to use that shit?Tilt the gun, bro. Or use the video image linked to your HUD.
>>96059749>can't even take a fucking bolt pistol it HAS to be the volkite >can't just upgrade to something from the combi weapon list it HAS to be the combi meltaRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>96059823Thanks for the leaks and the entertainment.
>>960595343.0 is, unironically, still looking much better than 40k
I'll take most thing being less lethal over tabling your oponent on turn 2 any day
>>96059888You should be afraid because it's on the page right there
>>96059897>>96059828Hey, hey psst hey stop talking about Primaris. Just stop. Every post about it is an L. Just stop.
What is the point of something like the legion terminator melee weapon list or the officer list if like tartaros or centurions can't take them? I'm not convinced we aren't just missing a page that says as much.
>>96059897>Or use the video image linked to your HUD.I think people over look this because marines are modeled and you see them in the trailers hip firing
>>96059611>Reduce options to one point>Anon still can't read
>>96059300Whats wrong? Don't like that your Primarch can get bodied by unnamed characters?
>>96059935>Officer list>Doesn't apply to most officers>Terminator list>Doesn't apply to most terminatorsNani?!
So I guess we are waiting until 2028 when 4.0 comes out for our plastic primarchs?
>>96059611>3A, +1 Initiative on the charge, WS5 and +1 WS if the enemy has statuses>All models can take Power fists or TH>225pAren't these guys insanely good?
>>96059965no I think I will just free myself from playing any GW games since I no longer find them any fun and customizing armies and units was about the only interesting thing left
>>96059670You have 3A with TH at -1i. Why even bother with LCs?
>>960599773+ save
same problem as last edition and the edition before that one
>>96059888red butchers only get 3 attacks, there's no bonus for dual weapons or for charging.
Items with the green funny word are what have, everything else is missing as far as I know.
>>96059965You will play the lists we tell you to and you will like it!
>>96059913I was too afraid to look it seems
>>96060002Why do some get one funny word and others get three?
>>96059965We get primaris 30k appropriate tactual squads in 4.0. Valrak confirmed it.
>>96059935GW writers are too retarded to use weapon lists now
The tartaros are obviously a mistake
The mosing options on the consuls are deliverate
Retardation caused both of them
>>96060023Loyalty is its own reward.
>captcha: ToT w8
Uh oh
md5: 994e40cdc0a12760069f437634e603e8
๐
BROTHER, DID YOU REPAIR THE UNSTABLE GELLAR FIELD?
>>96059990>customizing armies and units was about the only interesting thing leftFirst Official House rule of the Edition:
>Break the Lock: Any HQ can take any options form a previous edition by paying the appropriate points.We had universal 1 dread per 1k, we can manage this.
>>96059993Glass canons are still good. Specially fir those points and hitting first
>>96060002I think, in this hobby, troons are much, much more annoying than black people. In fact, all the black people I have met in the hobby have been fine.
It's the troons that are annoying
>>96060027literally unchanged except the obligatory +1A
Maybe with volley fire and the weapon changes theyre good now.
>>96060000WE trait is +1A when charging
They deliverately showed the one no one is going to take in the article
>>96060041kek, thanks anon. i needed that after these leaks
My Castelax Achea aren't fucking worthless anymore!
>>96060049It's okay, our local Raven Guard-American brothas won't care and only discord troons will cry about it
>>96060051the gambit is silly.
>>96060068I think the legion rules is the fluffiest one we've had in a while
>they're weak! get 'em!
>>96060068Definitely top 3 for me. The IW is hilarious too.
>>96060064But why call them out they aren't doing anything.
The mentally damaged men who think they are woman, however.....
>>96060068The Dark Angels strode across the battlefield to meet the Night Lords, the ground cracking and subtly quaking as the praetor in his saturnine armor led an honoured cadre of cataphractii veterans.
+++They will flee.+++ Praetor Chaimpotok intoned over the voxlink. +++And we will slay them as they do.+++
But the Night Lords did not flee. They advanced. Nineteen inductii in gray ceramite with only a single shoulder painted in Legion livery were led by a sergeant in full livery and one other: AN officer of some sort wearing a kilt of flayed skin and a gaudy helmet with a skull visage and bat wings that seemed to have been borne from the Spiritus Halloweenius tech enclave.
"1v1 me faggot" said the Night Lord officer, his sneer leaving a greasy stain on the air like baconium on a waxonite wrapper.
"The Ist does not have sodomitic orgies in bathhouses." Intoned Chaimpotok grimly as he moved into an attack stance.
"lol lmao" said the Night Lord as he spun and pirouetted like some dancer in a spinning dance with pirouettes, grabbing a random inductii and tossing him into his former place facing the enormous, gigantic, bighuge saturnine Dark Angel.
"What." said the hapless inductii, but he said no more, for Chaimpotok's choler was at its peak and he smashed the poor beakie into paste.
>>96060027Deepstrike and +1i on the charge is a pretty good upgrade for free. Some of the other legion's were pretty underwhelming
>>96060068Reaction is good too.
>>96060080The IW one is funny but in a sort of "wow this is real?" way, its just bad. Fucking turns your guy into a grenade (except those are D2)
>>96060079Yea, I really like it, it really encourages the appropriate legion fantasy imo.
>>96060068Damn, Night Lords are looking unironically fun.
>>96060092Raptors lost twin claws and forgot how to shoot guns. But they do now have access to something NL never had before, good AP2 weapons. Thunder hammer jetpack dudes striking at I3 on the charge coming your way. Only 40ppm!
>>96060101I count at least 5 special rules there anon
>>96060079NL are looking really good for melee
Their 2.0 rule was great but it never made a lot of sense desu...
>>96060101All these units with huge line and vanguard bonuses pushes the game in this really fucking weird direction.
You want to try just bum rush and sit on objectives to get 5 trillion VP's, but on the other side they then want to shoot up those line troops but specifically let their vanguard nerd run in to also secure 5 trillion vp's.
If you accidentally cause the line unit to fallback off a objective, you're actually shooting yourself in the foot severely, which is fucking wack.
>>96060105Sevatar sucks and is bad so I wont bother with him. Terror squads arent great either, but theyre interesting. Still lots of options, still like 3-5ppm overpriced.
>>960601102.0 made them into raven guard. A shooty ambush army that wants to fight "dishonorably" but also "smartly". Now theyre just fucking bullies, shoot you to cause disruption and come in with the knives.
>special rules: none
Whoever is responsible deserves execution
please drop link to libre hereticus leaks or discord. if not drop more traitor rules plz
>>96060092>atramentar hunt lets you give deepstrike to 3 different terminator unitsAre we sure the 1 unit deepstrike was not a typo as well.
Cuz deepstrike seems to be reaaly easy to access for an edition where you can barely use it
>>96060127The benefit is his CL10, he has very high mental stats for the cost.
Its a bit bland, but its honestly a pretty good way to do chaplains. Rather than a big flashy special rule dude he provides a benefit via his leadership, hes a support character in a very basic way.
>>96060126What does Hatred do again?
There are no reroll suppossedly
>>96060134Who knows man. Might be something that ends up changed in later missions.
>>96060149+1 to wound in melee
>>96060124Its actually not entirely common on specialist units. Dawnbreakers and dark furies have no vanguard or line for example.
Its kinda interesting, theres a line between purely combat units and "scoring" elites. The former are probably the more cost efficient fighters, but the latter can actively win games.
>>96060101>BS4 (not that it's good for much)It's 80 points so it's just a cheap Commander but isn't that what the Optae is for?
Setting aside everything else, how the fuck does GW proceed from here? Entirely separate units like Tartaros Fister Squad, Melee Master of Signals, and Hammerer Moritat? Prime benefit DLC? Randomly dropping additional options for published units in Legacies and Journals?
>>96060177>andOptae was like 40p before and has veteran stats. Chaplain is still a decent fighter
>>96060177The optae is 50pts for a dogshit dude that fills out a command slot you need filled. Hes not there to do anything except fill out FOC.
The chaplain gives a unit cool 10 and ld9. He actively provides an important benefit, especially if youre facing something like night lords (since most statuses target cool). Hes also okay (not great) in combat.
>>96060181yes
>>96060127Yooo post praevian
>>96060101See, it looks like they lost a bunch of options, and objectively I guess they did, but in reality it seems like they now have more weapon variety than ever. Since when could night lords into Ap2?
>>96060176>gamesThere aren't going to be any games, you stupid fuck
At this point the legacies pdf is going to be bigger than the fucking liber
>>96060201You have access to the mega same as everyone
>>96060101>>96060176For comparison, heres the dawnbreakers.
Much cheaper (naked raptor is the same cost) and with bespoke equipment (including AA). But look at the difference in special rules. Raptors score and provide debuffs, dawnbreakers just protect themselves.
Dawnbreakers also have no utility, they fight what they fight only one way, while raptors can be kitted out for specific tasks.
>>96060209>Legacies is 90% just functionally errata for missing options and virtually useless on its own
>>96059271>I watch vtubers all day please excuse the brain damageBut do you watch the chaos rat vtuber?
>>96060221It's in jdif format for some fucking reason and my phone can't crack it
>>96060228Night furies are a similar story. 30ppm (more than the dawnbreakers! as much as a glaive raptor) but absolutely nothing beyond their combat power going for them. Just 5 attacks that spike on 6s.
I wonder if vanguard will end up as one of the big deals for which specialists are worth taking and which are going to be replaced by a generic equivalent. The lack of any such rules is also present on command squads, which might be significant in that case.
>>96060196I was prepared for 3.0 to be terrible, but I was not prepared for it to be so gay.
>>96060252What do legion standards even for now, is it still leadership bubble but no line or do they get the same honor mini game as heralds for their unit only?
>>96060202Ap2 at -1i and with WS6 if you play right
3A too
>>96060252Assault veterans are in a comparable price range, especially with furies and raptors, and have a lot of weapons options as well as vanguard(3). If vanguard proves important (or generic weapons like thunder hammers remain in high demand, and theyre harder to get now for some legions) then I could see a world where the assault vets see play.
>>96060270dont know.
>>96060252Furies are great; I5 on the charge, 6s to hit are AP2 auto wounds with precision, 14 move that pass dangerous, AP3 matters again.
>>96060268They recruited a loonytroony theythem to the deam, massive unbridled faggotry was inevitable. Cover your asshole or prep your shitter.
>>96059854WE can swap chainswords for axes on any unit with chainswords.
Most legions will be limited to the units (like assaults) that specifically call it out.
>>96060252Just bc they are not made to kill terminators doesn't mean they are bad
>>96060101>Vanguard (4)Dawnbreakers and Dark Furries might do more raw damage, but neither of those give you four (4!) Victory Points when they kick a unit off an objective. And VP is what wins you the game.
>>96059902You either use the traitor champion model or the loyalist champion model.
Why would you need other options?
>>96060283I am not saying theyre bad. Im sure theyre not, their ability to shred power armor looks solid as ever. Im saying that I wonder whether their lack of any sort of rule like vanguard will prove relevant.
>>96060291Sure, I agree with that statement.
>>96060294It really depends how you define raw damage.
Dawnbreakers and furies are good at killing raptors, raptors are good at killing terminators. In a 1v1 raptors probably do badly, in a situation where both units have to fight some ebon keshig or whatever?
>>96060297Your joke SICKENS me
LEAKANON
POST DROP POD RULES SO I CAN HAVE MY FINAL REASON TO KILL MYSELF
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
>>96060301You want raptors to be bullying units with Line that are usually much weaker. Very thematic for NL.
Have we seen rules for flyers yet
>>96059951I don't play with Primarchs and like I said it's not about the power levels but the lack of flavor.
>>96060314Ironically they might be worse at that than before since they lost twin claws (and since shred now does something different)
How you holding up, /hhg/?
>>96060291are cataphractii with thunder hammers yet again the gold standard for melee units?
>>96060335Why? I can stay on 2.0 and be completely free of GW. They'll never touch it again.
>>96060334My local word bearers player already shot up the local GW shop
>>96060334Gave up on 3.0 and felt my mood improving.
>>96060335Sick mace on the Reaper
>>96060342It's true. I died.
>>96060288But why would you want to?
+1 strength is the same bonus as 2.0, but now your initiative gets fucked.
In the mirror match up it just completely fucks you, and anyone with slower weapons is almost certainly going to slaughter chainaxe models anyway.
Its a straight downgrade from 2.0.
>>96060334Just fuck my shit up. The best thing to come out of this is the based leaker.
>>96060334My group has basically given up on 3.0 but a pact has been made to keep playing 2.0 and allow things we like from third to be sprinkled in.
I personally am looking forward to trying out T5 terminators next game we play, 3rd ed progressive scoring missions, and Line/Vanguard rules.
>>96060337Maybe? Theyre certainly going to be pretty decent into other terminators and terminators seem to be pretty decent overall. I think time will have to tell in regards to how important vanguard (which terminators have) is, how prominent certain types of shooting are, how relevant is speed, how popular is melee at all...
>>96060334Fine, NL seem fun, I was dreading some absolute trashfire but it looks like an interesting and well designed legion. Its different is all.
>>96060365Better vs tacticals and shit. Chainswords have very low damage output now, like you get no benefit over "nothing"/ccw vs anything with 1w. You actually might want to math out chainsword vs chainaxe maths, because I dont even know if axes lose that.
>>96060335Genuine question: what in God's name makes you think playing HH makes someone interested in adeptus titanicus? Literally the only thing they share in the same setting, and only barely - the models, rules, scale, and focus of lore is completely different. If I wanted to play a mech game, I'd go play battle tech not it's retarded copycat so I can have better rules and cheaper minis and a infinitely bigger roster.
>>96059503> FauciBro that was like 5 years ago. The red stag never came sorry, maybe in another 2 weeks
>>96060337WS5 jumppack veterans have access to TH too and have 3A I think so idk about that.
TH are still better than fists and cost the same now
But they are much more even, you just hit i step hiegher while not being as good against dreads
loving no terminator armour or jump packs for consularis
>>96060342losing warpfire is driving me to the point of FUCKING FROTHING
>>96060412>against dreadsAnd vehicles.
And on this day, for no reason at all, I felt like buying some old HH books.
>>96060419Wait til you see we can't get corrupted
Can terminators volley fire multimelta?
>>96060365Shred is shit now. Chainswords are wounding on 4s, +1S is good to have.
Going second only matters if you are fighting other melee units. But you dont have to take all of them with axes. The enemy despoilers or tactocals are not going to kill more than 1 or 2 of your guys and then you get to hit wounding on 3s
Also rhino rush. If you are attacking at i1 you literally don't care
>>96059409>Secretly orchestrated the entire heresy.>Int 7Are the writers for real? Did the writer only read Erebus memes and none of the literature?
>won bigly
Alpha Legion
Sallies
SoH
TS
>won
DAngels
NL
UM
RG
>tied
IF
IW
IH
BAngels
WE
>lost
EC
DG
Scars
Wolves
>lost bigly
WB
everyone who already had armies
>>96060420If you want to attack vehicles you might as well take S10 armourbane chainfists
>>96060441Tfw you mean?
Chainsword blobs now cuck terminators
>>96060451formerly Chuck's Luna Wolves
>>96059409Didnt they mention he would have a unique gambit and he just doesent have one?
>>96060446>-1 attackWhat if you want to be able to kill tanks, but also not cripple yourself vs other things?
The fist is more of an all rounder, does everything, the chainfist and thunder hammer are more specialized.
>>96060451Abbadon is the new sigismund. Justaerin 4A. More options on them and reavers.
>Castallax Achaea and Thanatar still WS3 and I3, likely means rest of robots are too
>Shock Chargers nerfed to AP4 for some reason
>Domitars still weak compared to dreads
>Only decent robot melee is fucking scyllax somehow, a low model count bodyguard unit
>No more sweeping advance
Gotta love another edition of robots being dogshit in melee combat, if myrmidons got shafted then mechanicumbros are completely fucked once again. How the fuck is an elite shooting army with no melee capability going to win any games in the new objective focused scenarios? Thrall swarms? Fuck that
>>96060454You are killing 2 terminators if you are lucky with 20 despoilers. Same as before
>>96060454Wrong.
You went from wounding 3/4 times to wounding 1/3 times. Even if half those wounds are now D2 you simply cause far less of them.
>>96060431give me another hours to get over tainted blades first please anon im dying
>>96060462you pray some of the mech units have vanguard and you just sit there and shoot your opponent to farm VP
>>96060461Pretty sure the TH is still the only realistic option. Like in 2.0 you are not going to get to charge vehicles and dreads are going to rape you before you even get to attack.
Before the leaks I was so on-board with 3.0, talked to a local who wanted to do a league, talked to Warhammer store about the pre-order, set aside some money for it.
Now I feel so totally unsure about it. 2.0 didn't totally invalidate stuff I had made in 1.0, but 3.0 has. I can't see anyway to fix this without severe houseruling, and in that case I'd prefer to use 1.0 or 2.0.
>>96060443He's devious, doesn't mean he's smart
It is fucking hilarious though
>>96060500Dreads have like 4 attacks hitting on 4s and going into a 4++. They also go before thammers anyways.
>>96060501>2.0 didn't totally invalidate stuff I had made in 1.0Then you must have had a small collection. There was a lot of changes I had to make to keep stuff legal in 2.0
>>96060462> Noooo why aren't my robots good at everything????Kill. Yourself. Mechana-. Tranny.
>>96060501Meh
I'm going to pick up a squad of boys and the Saturine
Then figure out if I'm going forward or back
How would you feel about a Blackshield company that's a bunch of deserters from different traitor legions.
Each of them is sporting the colors of his own however they all have some unifying color/markings as well as some uncolored steel parts to represent field repairs.
Honestly is there anything that would really break if you just straight up said >any model in a elite melee unit can access the sergeant melee list + twin lightning claws
>any model in an elite ranged unit can access the combi weapon list + disintegrators, shotguns, and volkite chargers
>Any model in a terminator elite, retinue, or shock assault unit can take from the terminator melee list and combi-weapon list
>any unit with a fixed weapon from a weapon group (power axes on Phalanx warders, frost axes on varagyr, etc) can pick from any other weapon in that unit
>all legion weapons are part of the officer weapons list
>>96060525go play shattered legions
>>96060529Yes? Fucking loads. Units are balanced around what equipment they have or dont have. You cant just give dawnbreakers thunder hammers.
>narrative play is no longer stated to be the default mode of play in the rulebook, matched play is
should have been the first sign to everyone that this edition was going to suck balls and have nu-40k tier bullshit in it
>>96060513NTA but my mech transitioned really easily from 1e to 2e in terms of loadout legality (efficacy is an entirely different thing though)
But just from the 3e Liber leaks alone, almost half my night lords army has invalid loadouts
>>96060544You also create infinite fucking homogeneity. Theres no longer any working with limitations, everyone can just endlessly congregate on the same weapon options non-stop. Every game is going to be two identically equipped units duking it out.
>>96060554this is what the 2e apologists want though
>>96060529Well unfortunately GW went insane and cooked the wargear into statlines to the point where some units don't say if they have jumppacks or terminator armor or which type of terminator armor so that doesn't seem feasible.
Dissapointed that they removed warpfire blasters upgrade, but i'm glad my procastination stopped me from picking up plasma guns to build them.
>>96060551I still have servitors for my techmarines from 1.0 that still don't have rules. Not even in legacies... Nevermind the forge lord with conversion beamer.
If I simply play Custodes or Knights I can ignore how dogshit the liber astartes and hereticus are.
So does the Warsmith get no option or am I retarded?
>>96060550B-but the community articles said narrative was the driving force of 3.0!
They would never lie!
>>96060572I hope you weren't one of those fags who put heavy weapon techmarines in rhinos and shot them out of the ports
>>96060577yeah he doesn't get shit, all consul type units are a fixed single loadout now
Do we know what Aflame (1) is yet?
>>96060577Because consuls or consul equivalent characters dont get any options except what the base model comes with now. Sucks.
>>96060584No I just made bs6 moiraxes.
>>96060577The Warsmith gets all the option on the model and only the option on the model. That means he has to be in terminator armor too.
>>96060584No, they were surrounded by servitor meat shields blasting away whilst moving on foot. Needed all my Rhinos to desperately try keep the rest of my infantry alive long enough to do their thing, before the AP 2 pie plates inevitably vaporised everything.
>finally start collecting Heresy
>excited to learn the new rules because I haven't played 1.0 or 2.0 before
>so it'll be relatively even as everyone gets used to the new edition
>turns out 3.0 is shit
Welp. Guess I'll just stay building whatever I think is cool then.
>>96060444>EC bottom tier for 3 editions now poetic
>>96060431dear fucking neptune
>>96060576Custodes will be even worse
so no more terminator consuls or weapon options for consuls? they completely cucked tons of kitbashed character models in peoples collections lmao
>>96060444>>won>DAngelsHow? The lion is okay at fighting primarchs now, but thats about it.
RG also definetly won bigly.
>>96060607>EC bottomSome things never change
>>96060612Have to use them as regular centurions now.
>>96060606Depending on the Legion, how you modelled, and how wacky your loadouts were, you can probably still use that stuff.
I don't think the core system itself is irredeemable, it's just the libers are retarded.
>>96060612Thanks to the MAGIC of not listing wargear, you can still run those terminators as regular consuls with none of the benefits of terminator armor!
>>96060608I think basically the only thing they could take away is power fists / lightning claws on normal infantry. Knights were already basically just what's in the box.
Russ and wolves got fucked so hard. I thought that GW like wolves. Wtf?
>>96060624Still better much than SW and their primarch.
There was once a dream that was Rome
>>96060647You get what you fucking deserve
>>96060666Hey! I'm sure like 3-4 of those are still legal!
I'm sorry, BlackshieldAnon
>>96060647No one likes SW
So let's get the rundown
>Almost all legion units lost customization entirely
>All legions lost unique options, wargear and flavour (to various degrees)
>Scouts and Destroyers gone
>Some core list units have options removed like breachers having no volkite and tartaros having no power fists
>Half the consuls from 2.0 gone
>Terminator and jump pack consuls gone
>Consuls have no customization options
>Melee veterans without jump packs removed, sniper veterans removed
>Characters on bikes removed
>Primarchs suck balls
>Rites of War Removed
>Warlord Traits Removed
>Mechanicum looking like shit already
>Nu-40k missions
>New convoluted list building that nobody asked for
>Aircraft still some dogshit gimmick
>Game still completely unbalanced looking, weapons look all over the place
>Damage stat actually looks fucking useless, everything is damage 1 and the damage 2-3 weps were already S8 instant death weapons in 2.0.
>thunder hammers weaker than power fists
What in the actual fuck are they doing over in the studio? This is comedy in how shit and out of touch with the players it is. What did we get in return? Challenge gambits nobody wants to even take the time to read since nobody cares about them? A fucking cool stat?
How will they fuck up inductii?
>>96060701>Consuls have no customization optionsHalf of them do, but it's choosing between specific option A and specific option B
>>96060713And yet the fucking rapier crew get their own separate unit entry in the first journal, as well as that whirlwind. Like who the fuck asked for that? This is some peak schizo shit.
>>96060701>What in the actual fuck are they doing over in the studio?I'm sure you get the privilege to pay for those missing items and units back via the Journals Tactica, Anon. The edition will be complete and somewhat playable after those mandatory purchases made.
>>96060701>>96060713>options removed from Red Butchers, Champions, Chaplains, etc because the official models don't come with parts for that>options added to Justaerin, Raptors, Lerneans, Reavers etc despite lacking those parts on the official models>50/50 chance your legion's unique consul is either a unit or a prime benefit>50/50 your legion weapons are exclusive to command units or can also be sarge-issued
>>96060444dark angels have no legion trait and no gambit.
If this edition isn't entirely vehicle meta (nobody posted any tanks point costs andd stats) then Death guard getting a free +4" extra movement while shooting as stationary is still better than anything Dark angels get. If dreads and heavy weapon squads were made entirely poop tier by point costs and stats while $125 tanks were given god stats, then deathguard will be absolutely fucked having lost their legion trait as well.
Resilience is sweet, Eternal Warrior 2 and +1 wound on a terminator character makes it a mini-primarch that would assfuck almost every non-primarch in a challenge (and if they refuse their unit all strikes last and loses hard)
Power scythe arent bad if you run a shooty army with a small 5man termie squad in each sector. +2 attacks wounding on 3+ with AP3 and Reaping5+ does is a decent counterpunch to against 10-20man termie squads and assaults. And deathshrouds get T5 and Eternal Warrior 1 free making them more than twice as durable as a budget terminator.
The gambit's also not terrible. If Sang/Fulgrim or anyone gets caught in a combat and some DG character with the eternal warrior 2 enhancement hops in and challenges Sanguinius/Fulgrim, gambits himself to their WS for Toughness 8 free. Sang's encarmine blade is just S7 so sanguinius is wounding a non-primarch on only 5+ and dealing max 1 wound even on a critical hit because eternal2. Sang is bulky6 so stinky character gets 5 attacks from scythe wounding on same 5+ as sanguinius.
Not bad considering DG is a powerful shooting army that just so happens to be pretty resilient in melee. Getting to walk 4" with dmg2 lascannons when deepstrikers can't charge at all is pretty decent, makes it much easier to move away and run some tacticals in to screen charges.
>>960606813. Exactly. Fucking. 3.
But that doesn't matter because the fucking VETERANS that I spend fucking AGES on aren't legal anymore either and even if I could just BARELY fucking manage to scrape a squad together they'd be so FUCKING useless as to defeat the purpose....
And even if I'd kept my Thousand Son terminators and automata, which flipped in usefulness AGAIN, I wouldn't be able to use half of THEM EITHER because TARTAROS CAN'T TAKE FUCKING POWER FISTS
So with the armistos gone, are Imperial Fists the only ones left with a heavy weapons guy?
I can finally do a palatine blade army legally and they made them dookie...
>>96060733Combi weapons on tyrant siege terminators now too.
Unironically what is the purpose of playing horus heresy over 40k 10th edition now? This is just 10th edition with some extra steps when you really think about it, they completely fucked the game
>>96060745I'm not going to tell you it WILL get better, but I HOPE it does get better.
>>96060647GW likes fucking wolves, anon.
>>96060576>Be Knight>Get stunlocked.
>>96060751For now, but they're gimped.
>>96060763Well for one, I refuse to play with shartmaris
>>96060774>autocannon dings knight's shin-plate>knock knockHold on, stop fighting, I gotta go answer the door.
>>96060763>This is just 10th edition with some extra steps when you really think about itIt's really not
>>96060763None really. And "I get to play with primarchs" isn't one since 40k has 6 primarchs and is soon gonna release Leman Russ, Vulkan, Corax, Perturabo and Lorgar in plastic.
>>96060763>wounds, mortal wounds, deadly wounds, pinching wounds, severe wounds, quitting wounds No thanks
Am I allowed to play.HH 3.0 when not wearing a chastity cage?
>>96060810>wounds, critical wounds, shred wounds, pin wounds, suppression wounds, panic wounds, rending wounds, breaching wounds, poison woundsit's the same type of shit retard
>>96060817HH 3.0 is the chastity cage
>>96060821Ok, but is it a flat or inverted cage?
>>96059084 (OP)ALL HANDS ABANDON SHIP. ALL EMERGENCY CRAFT RENDEZVOUS TO YOUR NEAREST 1.0 AND 2.0 HOMEWORLDS. THIS IS NOT A DRILL, LIFE SUPPORT SYSTEMS ARE CRITICAL. ABANDON SHIP
>>96060827>flat cagea fucking what now
>>96060877The Imperial Fists special
>>96060792>removes customization and flavor>no model, no rules>literally just ported over 40k missions and objectives>battles going to play out exactly like 10th edition where it's all about soulless fag armies fighting over neoprene circles >10th edition tier special rules>move and shoot heavy weapons with no penalty>removed sweeping advance>reactions are basically just stratagems when you actually think about>ability/stratagem tier bloat with gambits>3 year cycle>no warlord traits >rites of war literally turned into 40k 10th style detachments with a basic boring rule and stratagems (advanced reaction and gambit)>i-it has armor facing on vehicles and fleeing it's totally gonna play out differently trust me bro
Guess they weren't lucky, huh. Literally Reaping power axes...
...too bad Reaping got nerfed into Rampage, and power axes cannot be AP2 because...they just can't, okay??
So how's Legion Imperialis? Is the starter enough to have fun vs another starter or do you have to buy more boxes?
>>96060923Itโs ok, gets a bit repetitive after a couple games
>>96059456The bold is for normal people, everything else is for tg users cause we canโt read
>>96060916your picture is wrong, it's a power axe that gets 2 free attacks if outnumbered. Fortunately the minimum size of deathshroud is 2 members.
>>96060932That's a fucking shame, I really liked the old Epic as a kid and hoped to bring back something similar in my town.
>>96060906Imagine writing half a dozen generic Rites of War, plus a couple for each legion, as well as minimum 3 legion-specific Warlord Traitrs, and then delete them all just so you can take a silly special detachment, plus one legion-specific Prime.
Yikes.
Well I have good news for plasma pistol anon: RAW, a centurion can swap out both his bolter and bolt pistol for plasma pistols, so you have like 30 centurions lol.
>>96060923Infantry spam meta:the game
>>96060232Yeah this is clearly what itโs gonna be. I think itโs the champion who only gets a fucking combi melta for ranged lmfao
>>96060923It has a ton of problems unfortunately. They corrected a few in a recent FAQ like the baffling infantry on foot being faster than in transports issue, but there's still major problems. The game takes ages to resolve to where many groups set houserule limits on how many activations you get per turn just so games can end in a reasonable time frame, it's very clunky and extremely unbalanced with melee infantry being very overpowered compared to vehicles. Just play the old epic, there's not really a reason to invest in LI unless you have a local scene already. I expect it to flop like aeronautica did within a year or so, I still see titanicus posted more online than I do this game, sales likely are low.
>>96060624Their units are all fantastic, Paladins are insanely good, Inner circle can get to WS7 with a terranic greatsword for challenges, Interemptors arent the best, but still is good enough for their role, and Deathwing Companions can be walking around with terranic greatswords and eternal warrior 1.
Corswain is one of the best duelists period, Sedress is perfect for narrative events, Lion has stasis grenades which is bonkers.
Their advance reaction is pretty good when you need to blitz down a unit on your opponents turn to charge on your turn.
Basically everything but the core rule and the gambit are pretty fucking useful. Nothing broken, but nothing needlessly bad.
>>96060419Itโs weird too cause despite loosing a lot, the generic stat lines are weirdly good. Ashen circle getting 20x template volley shots is crazy
>>96061020>>96060624Loyalty is its own reward :^)
>>96060444World Eaters came out just fine, in an edition where units are getting less attacks, +1 attack on the charge is fantastic, the advance reaction is good, Red Butchers with Eternal warrior is fantastic and solves their greatest weaknesses, even rampagers with Vanguard 3 is awesome.
Kharn is also one of the few named heroes to not be a challenge bitch, and eternal warrior on top of that.
I dont know what others are saying, but World Eaters won pretty hard.
>>96060577Characters are basically useless in the liber since it only has the loadouts that the kits have irl. Weโre gonna need the legacy pdf to even be able to check most of these units
>>96061040Rampager weapons are hot squirty diarrhea now, and locked to rampagers only, hope you didn't model any fun characters with fun flavorful options
Wait do command squads end. Nerd go be attached to a character?
Do we have generic Decurions yet?
>>96061061No. You can use centurion command squads as foot veterans,but only if you didn't take combi weapons and poweer weapons like I was thinking of doing a few weeks ago :^)
>>96061040>World Eaters won pretty hardBro you lost jump pack rampagers, one handed falax blades, caedere weapon characters, and red butcher thunder hammers and lightning claws. Every legion gets chainaxe assault squads now also so your wargear isn't even a unique one. What the fuck are you talking about? Your legion got screwed man
>>96061069>only a bolt pistol>no melee weapons (except bombs and grenades, I suppose)For what purpose?
>>96061069>no melee weaponlmao
>>96061089Becuase the book is an editing mess. So many fucked up datasheets.
>>96061089>>96061093It's what's on the model chuds
>>96061089>Have four attacks>Only a limp cock to swing around The flesh is weak, brothers
>>96061097I said foot veterans
>>96061105Pretty sure they still have feet
>>96061109Have you tried skimming the thread
>>96060606Hope your local group is sticking to 2.0.
Hoping you chuds can assist. Looking over the leaks, maybe leakeranon can show or I missed it cuz Iโm retarded. Do we know what Aflame (1) or the Maleific subtype do? And the WB Exalted Conclave detachment mentioned the True Believers Prime Advantage, which is different than the listed Zealous Assault. Any clue?
>>96059084 (OP)Its so disapointing seeing the way 3.0 is shaping up to be, its literally going to turn into 40k.
This is exactly how it starts, stripping of wargear options, moving models/loadouts into legacy or simply just not including them.
Im very much over this game now.
Its been a fun time but i guess im just not the target audience for this hobby anymore...what a fucking waste of nearly 2 decades.
>>96061093>>96061100>TS giving psychic melee weapons or psychic weapons to characters with only pistols and no melee weapon
>>96060334I have the 4th edition BOLS Heresy supplement, PDFs of all the Black Books, a complete set of 2.0 hardbacks and all the digital shit lurking about somwhere, and years of experience beg-bullying people to play random OOP GW games with me.
I estimate I'll get two or three games of HH a year going forward because the main group I play with are massive unmitigated simping paypiggy filth so will inevitably switch to the new edition. Yeah feels great man, super looking forward to it.
I'm starting to think we might actually light a fire under GW's feet over this. This feels like an even bigger shitstorm than the Custodes 10th ed codex at launch.
>>96061129>Aflame (1) or the Maleific subtypeNot yet
>True Believers Prime Advantage, which is different than the listed Zealous Assault99% failure to proofread
What is Horus Heresy's demographic? It feels like oldfags would be drawn to it more.
>>96061146Which did absolutely nothing? Like you think the company would care what a bunch of twits on a basket weaving forum of ill repute think? The paypigs will make the money this edition took to make in less than a year.
>>96059502>+1A exes with breaching 4+>eternal warrior (1)>leader has 3A with AP2 D3 weapon with shredthese guys are actually pretty insane
>>96061152Majority are 40k refugees from 7th and now a new wave from 10th edition. 30k as a community was always composed of people who are disgruntled at the state of the current edition of 40k.
>>96061161And liked converting and hobbying. 30k was customization paradise.
>>96061027Can anyone explain why the ever made the optae if the delegatus existed??
I like granularity and world building too but it feels like a company commander vs a lieutenant type deal BOTH for low point games
>>96061152It was Oldfags. It used to be the holding ground for people who liked the 3rd Edition 40k derived rulesets.
Now the demographic is high rotation whales and addicts.
>>96061088We still get chain axes on anything that isnt an assault squad though, that goes on bikes, jetbikes, vanguard, pretty much anything that gets chainswords.
The only thing that i agree sucks to lose is Falax blade characters and jump pack rampagers, but at least we can down grade them slightly to Vanguard Vets with power swords and still have that fast moving lots of attacks unit, its not as good, but nothing is as good in this edition. The rest is fine. In an edition were so many units proc bonuses on 5s and 6s, being the legion able to throw out large amounts of attacks is way more relevant then it was last edition.
Just pause and compare how we are next to the other "assault" legions, and we lost the least overall, our playstyle is mostly sticking around.
Our advanced reaction also rules, because you can activate it regardless of if the shooting unit is within charge range and it lasts the entire shooting phase, so you could deep strike 6 Saturnine with the Praetor, nuke something with Disintegrators, then pop the strat for your Saturnine to be 3 wound 2+/4++ Eternal Warrior 1 models for their next entire shooting phase, and if they tried to shoot you with meltas, the survivors charge in and kill that unit dead. And thats just one example, most of the time just throwing it on Vanguard Vets or a command squad will be good enough.
Chain bonded basically lets your praetor always hit well in challenges so long as his buddy in his squad is alive, really fucking good for a prime benefit.
I really think people havent actually looked at these rules and their applications. Like looking at World Eaters vs Space Wolves or Blood Angels, its not even a contest.
>>96061167Neither the delegatus or optae were even intended to be real options, just there for fluff and zone mortalis, however both FW and GW don't realize that gunlines don't give a fuck about HQs and will gladly take the minimum needed to fit their shit in
>>96060968>it's a power axe that gets 2 free attacks if outnumberedYes, that's Rampage. Rampage (2) instead of 1, at least.
>>96060916getting 5 attacks with 5+ breaching is plenty AP2. Compared to a power sword getting 3 attacks with 6+ breaching, world of difference.
The weapons that hit harder than the scythe are initiative -3 which is basically guaranteed strike last.
And after 3-4 Deathshroud unload on a 5man terminator squad, the powerfists/thunderhammers that struck last are only dmg1 because nurgle's Eternal Warrior so they take 2 failed 4++ saves for thunderhammers to kill a single deathshroud - and god forbid they're regular WS4 vs WS5.
3+ armor is much more common in 3.0, a squad of deathshroud would absolutely mulch a 10man jetpack veterans (3+ armor, no invuln and count as bulky 2 for outnumbering)
DG terminators are for the 90% of the enemy which aren't terminators. For terminators, DG probably do stuff like a 190 pt 10 Tac Vets with 2 Heavy disintegrators, moving 28" threat range with 4 shots hitting on 2+, S6 wounding most on 2+, AP2 Dmg2 . 190 point squad popping like 100 points of terminators at long range per turn (and rolling overload 1s just removes a random bolter trooper so no big deal)
>>96061161>>96061172This was me, I fucking hated 8th, I only enjoyed the 3rd-7th ruleset, I fled to HH and loved it because it was akin to old rules nows that's going away and I'm watching the same shit happen to HH that happened to 40k.
But now I have no where to flee too.
>>96060916If you don't want your character to get mogged, don't give him sergeant weapons LMAO.
Does Reaping work in duels? Those +2A better compensate for full AP2 and 2x Damage lol
Honestly I feel like the weirdest part for me is like, apart from consul bullshit, the stuff in the core legion list is actually pretty cool, it just all falls apart once you get to characters and legion units. It's like they finished the core roster and then they got told they had until end of day do the rest of the book. Very bizzare
>Erebus doesn't even have a fucking gambit
>>96060127>the only reason to bring chaplain is his AP3 D2 weaponthe galaxy without cults and religions
just luke the emperor wanted it
>>96061205For me it's the fact that a lot of units are losing options, little things at first.
The death blow for me is loss of bikes for characters. If they are not in legacy I'm done with the hobby from a game play perspective.
>>96061201Can always play MESBG like me
>>96061201>But now I have no where to flee too.Don't worry, Warhammer 40,000: Dark Millennium: The Badab War will scratch that itch for us until it gets the 3rd edition too.
Havenโt you guys read the lore about legion champions only being trained in using the volkite serpents and combi melta?? All these fucking newbies I swear to god. Everyone knows a legion champion cannot use a bolt pistol! They were never trained in it. Read the black books
Yeah I think I'm just going to go back to trying to play 40k with the boys. My heresy group is full of shills that are saying wait for legacies and victim blaming people for not building units exactly as box contents as WAACfags. If I'm going to play a dogshit game, I'm at least going to play a dogshit game I can find players with 10 minutes away then an hour and a half away.
ill just keep being a nogames faggot and building my lists and models with 2.0
what
md5: 986c7e128e051e263a0686cd83511436
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>>96061205The weirdest part for me IS the consul bullshit because they were the most unique thing about 30k. Extremely specialized commanders which represent the time of the Great Crusade and the difference of the Legions over the chapters. If they don't care about the fluff this is still an edition where you need a bunch of commanders why would you be so limiting to them? Now everyone has to stomp around with just regular-ass captains.
>>960611551 extra breaching in exchange for enemy hitting them like WS3 (so WS5 hit on 3+ and characters like Kharn hitting them on 2+s)
Most enemies are 2 wounds so D3 weapon with shred almost entirely irrelevant and sarge only strikes last after everything massacres his unit.
The few enemies that a Dmg3 weapon seems nice against like a primarch, have Eternal Warrior 2 so even if they don't insta-kill you (they will just insta-kill your squad) then you strike last and only deal 1 wound unless he gets a miracle 6 to shred for only 2 damage if they fail their 4++.
6" movement fatties that can't charge out of deepstrike, meaning they'll basically never pick their target to fight, and they'll just get gunned with heavy disintegrators to kill most of the axes then an enemy unit swoops in and kills the champ before he gets to even swing.
They're not as horrid as they'd be if they only had Butchers Nails, since at least they get 4 attacks on the charge, but still they're not anything impressive at 475 points. That's a primarch price level without the ability to move around and no army buffs and bad for scoring victory points.
>>96061222NTA but how's that new edition doing? Heard mixed things about it, but didn't really pay attention.
>>96061222MESBG just had the same shit happen as 30k though bro, they cut tons of list building and customization and made the factions boring as fuck. You had to wait a whole fucking year to even play your army after release for a ton of the playerbase also lmao
Old World is probably next. All the GW games are getting swung down by corporate one by one
So are we going to splinter in 2 generals, 1 for 3.0 shills and 1 for 1.0 players (no one will stick with 2.0)
file
md5: 79ff1de8ceb2aeaf86aeeebb66672787
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so where exactly are these prime advantages?
>>96061259The core rules are basically the same, the only issues with it is that some cool armies and models are in legacies now. However most of the game is still in with for what i would say good balance.
>>96061262Not as badly as 30k
>>96061271>No one will stick with 2.0Tbh it would be far easier to fix the issues of 2.0 then go back to 1.0.
Anyone who says 1.0 is better I'm.convinced never fought tsons, knights, or aux. Or somehow emnever ran across vehicles that spammed pie plate ap2 and 3
>>96061177Yeah lemme just reduce my init by 1 so all my peer units hit me first so I don't even get to strike.
Chainaxes now are only useful against even slower weapons, but anything with WS5 can just have a better weapon anyway, and WS4 vs WS5 is still horrific.
So the only niche is WS4 units (i.e. despoilers and assault squads) hitting other WS4 units with slow weapons, but terminators don't even get any of the slow weapons anymore, so what are they actually going to be useful against?
In other news, EW(1) butchers is actually good, and what they've always needed.
>>96061271>3.0 shillswho the fuck is that? the reception for the edition has been negative everywhere I've looked. Youtube, here, 30k subreddit, dakkadakka, bolter and chainsword, local stores, chat groups. It's fucking over man, nobody likes this shitty ass edition. Even Valrak the famous GW cocksucker made a video telling people the new edition sucks ass.
>>96061273It doesn't exist
True Believers is not a thing
No one proofread it
>>96061284I'm looking right at em in our store's Facebook group, although they're thankfully in a minority. It's mostly bitching right now but I can feel the convo starting to swirl around whether we're sticking with 1.0 or 2.0 and there's people on both sides
>>96061283>so what are they actually going to be useful against?The ws 4 units that you need to kill to earn victory points that they built the edition around... duh.
Tacticals and assault/despoiler units will still be everywhere in this edition, and you can bully them.
>>96060705by being prime upgrades that make them cheaper or some shit like that.
>>96061167>why the ever made the optae if the delegatus existedBut Delegatus is subPraetor (above Centurions), and Optae are subCenturions
>>96061188>gunlines don't give a fuck about HQs and will gladly take the minimum needed to fit their shit inThis. I hate herohammer lmao. A beatstick character never quite fits the usual AL operators list.
Dynat is a welcome change of pace for when you want a big guy...but he's the exception, not the rule.
What are Masters of the Legion for, anyways? Might be tempted to have 0 Centurios lol
>>96061282Every edition has its balance problems.
The question is which has better rules?
1.0 having shit like 200 ap2 pie plates or 50 psychic teleporting terminators were cheesy and problematic balance problems yes, but that doesn't mean the rules are bad, just those things were undercosted/too easily spammable, etc.
I personally like 1.0 because the WS table in 2 and 3 sucks ass and discourages massed melee infantry in favour of elite super units, and reactions are a very 'gamey' mechanic, which takes away agency from individual units actually reacting to things happening on the board, and replaces it with the player having yugioh trap cards.
Regardless of whether I chose to play 1.0 or 2.0, I would want to house rule various shit to fix the balance, but if the fundamental rules are dogshit, then you have to do a rediculous amount of homebrewing to unfuck it, so why bother?
>3.0 will be shit and will be abandoned
>2.0 will be retroactively abandoned by disillusioned players who tire of their denial
>Titanicus will live forever
FOREVER
>>96061284>Valrak made a video telling people the new edition sucks asslmao, it's so over
i was intrigued by the force org revisions and simpler allied detachments, but they've removed too many options and it feels so flat. i wish the 1.0 books didn't cost a billion shekels.
>>96061296Your gonna have luck with 2.0 more then 1.0 since people like physical media and 2.0 is still cheap, vs black books that go for several hundred a pop
>>96061297Tacticals are already shit in melee so it doesn't really matter, but other assault/despoiler squads are going to hit you first, reducing your damage output.
Sure WE have the charge advantage now, but we have nothing specific that actually helps secure a charge.
Actually, the real use for chainaxes is just mechanised assault with mass rhinos. Disordered charges means init 1, so the penalty doesn't matter in that case.
>>96061222MESBG is fucking dead bro. The new edition is a disaster. Removed all options and nuance from listbuilding. Removed any profile that didnt have official GW models. All this in favor of horrible restricted armies with slop special rules with a balance that is completely thrown out of the window and onensided curbstomps are the norm now.
Its shit. This is coming from someone who played it religiously for the duration of the previous edition.
>>96061319it's crazy that GW doesn't simply reprint the 1.0 books with balance updates. there's no way it underperforms this garbage.
>>96061259Listbuilding got completely cut. Its a tragic husk of its former self. Redditors huff copium because the core game is mostly unchanged. Its over.
>>96061310I said it before in the last thread but, you can fix 2.0 very fucking easy just do the following and you will fix 90% of the problems
>Change brutal to be a single save that inflicts x amount of wounds not a make x amount of saves per wound roll>Bring back the old WS chart>Artificer armor can only tank # of saves equal to their init >Make Power axes -1 init not unweildly >Models can only make snap shots with heavy weapons in a reaction unless that unit has a rule that lets it move and shoot heavy weapons>A unit can only react once per turn, meaning you cant intercept, return fire, and overwatch with the same unit in the same turn.>Reworking of all psyker powers>Remove line from warders and from Suz>Give all vhicles 50% more HP>Vehicles cant be immobilized if they have more then half their hull points left.>vehicles cant explode unless they have less then 1/4th their HP left A personal one as well
>Rapiers can return fire and overwatch from teh front arc of their guns. There you can fixed 90% of the problem with 2.0
>>96061338They cant, GW will NEVER support old editions, which is a shame because they could easily do reprints of black books and get a buck fifty for each one.
>>960612093.0 is Erebus' Gambit. You challenged, and now your game must die.
>>96061348Fuck off back to troonoptica
>>96061314Titanicuschad....I kneel...
Well glad to have found more leaks with this new edition I think I'M going to stick with Warlord Games instead of GW. RIP TO YOU NIGGERS ITS SO OVER BROS. HORUS HERSEY HAS FALLEN
>>96061331Ive played both and aside from annoying army restrictions it looks pretty similar to me.
>>96061359>Troonohow fucking dare you.
But funny enough even Troono is not vibing with this edition lol, Even that discord is doom and pissed off people even people i have seen defend the fuck outta GW and bad practices they are saying thsi is garbage.
>>96061365>I'm going to stick with the GW of historicalsdon't do it man, you'll just be disappointed again in the future. Find some games like chain of command, crossfire, or equivalents for your preferred time period and form a long standing historical group with legacy games instead of dealing with company corpo shit. Frostgrave, opr regiments, and stargrave are good too if you want to stick with the fantastical
>>96061348>Bring back the old WS chartNah, the old WS chart was also ass. Just make it a 2 step before you hit on 5's
Example
>WS4 attacking WS3: 3+ to hit>WS4 attacking WS4: 4+ to hit>WS4 attacking WS5: 4+ to hit>WS4 Attacking WS6: 5+ to hit
>>96061381NTA but do you know any good medieval historical wargames? Hail Caesar has some medieval stuff but im not feeling those rules.
>>96061393Lion Rampant is great for skirmishes, Saga can be decent also if you don't mind the battle board thing (they have lots of different variants of the game for different periods and even fantasy). If you want mass battle then check out triumph
>>96061389This is the objectively peak option. I don't know why GW like their current one so much, it sucks ass and has less granularity.
When will people realise they have the choice to play older editions or house rule things. Following GW is a community epidemic
>>96061408Damn, you're right. Let me just contact my local thriving HH 1.0 community. Or better yet, let me just easily convince the current community to switch to a ruleset that is no longer supported.
You're right anon, it's easy as pie! Fucking retard.
>>96061389I can get down with this one DESU.
Personally i think if you are 1WS over the defender you should get a +1 hit, but if you are 1 under the attacker you just hit on 4s
So WS5 on WS4 hits on 3s, but WS4 on WS5 hits on 4s still.
>>96061408Its very hard to play older editions when getting material to play them is very difficult and because its all copy write material you cant exactly go out and buy shit easily. LIke the only way you are gonna get, for example, volkite breachers, is if you know a recaster, which most people dont.
Trust me, i have fucking tried to get people to play 4th ed with 3rd ed codexes for a long fucking time, i even offer up the pdf codexes and no one wanted to.
>>96061408Anon, you're posting in a thread with people who literally cannot build army lists without the help of apps . . . And they're "hardcore gamers" by the wider standards of the hobby.
>>96061408The issue isn't with me, it's with the other fags at my local groups who won't ever agree to play the older editions with me. I've tried for countless different wargames and nobody ever wants to try out games besides the latest edition of GW rulesets
>>96059084 (OP)I am going to kill myself.
>>96061422.>what do you mean you don't write your list on a cave wall with a piece of coal
>>96061330>but other assault/despoiler squads are going to hit you first, reducing your damage output.Why are you charging your basic assault units that are there to bully and cull other basic units into other dedicated assault units, your Vanguard, Rampagers or red butchers should be dealing with those.
>>96061348alright, im taking notes.
any changes for mechanicum, auxillia, etc?
>>96061348>artificer armor tanking 4 or 5 hitsFuck that, removing artificer armor is just about the only thing in HH3 that's improved over 2.
>>96061449DESU i would need to sit down and look at them but probably a slight nerf to myrmidons or what ever they are called, their shit is bonkers. I fucking love thalax though.
Cant speak for Aux, probably just need to have the battle canon uncucked but i think upping the HP of all vehciles by 50% and putting some limitations on how quickly a vehicle can be imobilized or popped will help them out a LOT.
>>96061259Rules themselves range from alright to great. Certainly better than 2.0. Big issue is a bunch of shit theyโve either shoved in the legacy PDF or saved for tactical journals. Itโs frankly ridiculous how much was gutted from hqs and legion wargear. Alpha legion is the new fists for this edition
>>96061434You play SW? Are you mad?!
>>96061453Centurions can tank a ton of hits in 3.0 anon
>>96061457>saved for tactical journalsThis is almost certainly what's going on. Start out with a minimum viable product, sell back what we had at the start of 2.0 in piecemeal journals over the lifespan of the edition.
>>96061408That's just stagnation though. There won't be any new players because new players play the newer edition. Anyone who doesn't want to play old editions isn't going to join you so that's however many people who are now not joining you. Sure there might be some people who are okay with it but they're not gonna start any new armies for an old edition. They're probably not going to expand an army for an old edition unless it's purely for hobby or they were already doing it before the edition changed. So everyone is going to be going about with the same models which means the games are going to go mostly the same. Unless everyone's collections are big that's just gonna get boring fast.
>>96061348How about fixing battle cannons?
Do vehicles really need more HP?
How about fixing dreadnoughts so they're not so OP?
>>96061455as my local group's chief retard in charge, im usually the one who ends up reading and working on rules the most. My issue is, after the last 12-24 hours the vague interest in HH 3.0 has pretty much bled from the room. People are already talking about 1st ed or 2nd ed to go back to, but both are having alot of things brought up as issues with the rules or army lists.
a big issue with 2nd ed (in my group) seems to be that not all stratigems seem to have been made equal, some seem just better than others
mechanicum in 2.0 is one of the worst, unfinished messes ive seen in a long time. hell, a guy in our group got his army book and it was printed upside down and backwords. Ill agree myrmadon secutors were quite good but its honosetly the grav spam out of them that was OP. they only stand out as strong because almost everything else in that army book is unfinished/unplayable or outright smashed with a nerf hammer, baring the thanatar calix and its mighty lascannon
Really, they should have dialed it way,way back to 1.0 style and given us juicy DLC instead of half-assing it.
Just Praetors and Centurions with a boatload of options, the generic marine choices, only a few GC/Dropsite relevant units, and NO PRIMARCHS.
Primarchs get their own Tactica Journals. Consuls and extra units as DLC. Easy, exploitable, almost idiotproof.
>>96061330Disordered means no set-up move, no volley fire and no charge bonus. So no, they still lose a lot by that -1 Ini.
>>96061489exact same situation as you anon. honestly I don't want to fucking do this either, I just wanna play with my toys. 1.0 and 2.0 got so many things to fix and 3.0 looks like total trash
>>96061466Since 2016
Who remembers? I am Spartacus
Do we have Apothecary rules yet?
I was there the day Games Workshop slew The Horus Heresy.
>>96061524And how do you feel about HH 3.0? How Russ and wolves doing this edition?
>>96061529I dont think so and i would not be surprised if you dont get mobility options on them either.
WS players legit on suicide watch.
>>96061536Children to this day dance around the effigy of Pardo the Narc
>>96061536it feels like shit because even if only half the legions feel like total dogshit now, it won't be fun playing against a shitty army. Friend loses their units, their guns become tickle-sticks, their melee units no longer do anything, if I were to beat them I wouldn't get enjoyment from it. I'd rather play a good game like chess t han a one-sided shitty game like HH3.
>>96061449NTA, but as a mechanicum player some things you'll need to figure out
>how do you want to deal with the melee problem: 2.0 made them the Tau of 30k but unlike Tau they still have a lot of melee only or melee slanted units that just aren't very good due to a mixture of overcosted (ursarax) or dogshit melee for their role (domitars, scyllax, vorax to an extent but they're cheap enough to mitigate this through spam if you have enough models). I'd recommend leaning on mechanicum melee being a mix of cheap and trash and durable as fuck, or honestly lean on giving more units hatred, maybe make it an option for cybernetica exhortus or something I don't know>similar to the melee problem but it affects all Automata, krak grenades being AP3 is a problem, tactical marines mog castellax do far it's almost funny, but on the other hand having a bunch of mini dreadnoughts that standard troops can't do shit about is also a problem. I recommend just making krak grenades not auto hit but breaching 5+ so astartes dreadnoughts don't laugh them off >myrmidons need to go to 3 wounds and plasma fusils needs to lose the breaching and gets hot, mech fags will try and tell you just reducing the breaching is enough don't listen to them. >need to do something about bsttlesmith and cybertheurgy encouraging youth actively not bother will the cool Magi wargear because you can't shoot if you want to buff and you can't buff if you want to melee, I'd recommend reverting the FAQ that says you can't use shooting replacement actions with firing protocol or make up support protocols or something >krioses need to be more expensive or shittier armor, at base they're just better predators, maybe like a +25 point slap might do the trick>knights are a mess I'll let someone more experienced than me pitch in on but please give my baby the atrapos do lobe it's so brutal GW's hatred of him
>>96061489How much of mechanicum's issues are solved by adopting the old WS chart? You are hitting on 4s instead of 5s for alot of stuff and mech stuff feels kind of spooky in melee when it can actual hit back,
>Faceberg users are having melties over leakeranons profanity
>pardo in every thread he can find
Has anyone posted the SoH rules yet?
>>96061501They didn't need to make a new edition at all.
>>96061583They needed to fix and nerf some shit in 1.0 but overall yes they did not need to change 1.0
>Macca
You will never be a real game designer macca. You have no talent, you have no IP, you have no panache. You are a fat man twisted by bitterness and nostalgia into a crude mockery of Alan Bligh.
All the โvalidationโ you get is two-faced and half-hearted. Behind your back people mock you. Your discord members are disgusted and ashamed of you, your โfriendsโ laugh at your ghoulish appearance behind closed doors.
Hobbyists are utterly repulsed by you. Thousands of years of evolution have allowed men to sniff out frauds with incredible efficiency. Even your legion rules who โpassโ look uncanny and unnatural to a man. Your bias is a dead giveaway. And even if you manage to get a drunk guy to try your homebrew, heโll turn tail and bolt the second he gets a look at your WS chart.
You will never be happy. You wrench out a fake smile every single morning and tell yourself itโs going to be ok, but deep inside you feel the depression creeping up like a weed, ready to crush you under the unbearable weight.
Eventually itโll be too much to bear - youโll buy a rope, tie a noose, put it around your neck, and plunge into the cold abyss. Your discord members will find you, heartbroken but relieved that they no longer have to live with the unbearable shame and disappointment. Theyโll bury you with a headstone marked with your birth name, and every passerby for the rest of eternity will know a no games faggot is buried there. Your body will decay and go back to the dust, and all that will remain of your legacy is a skeleton that is unmistakably gay.
This is your fate. This is what you chose. There is no turning back.
>>96061587Yes and for some reason people still believe that when James makes a new edition it's about making the game better and not making money.
>>96061536how hopeful we once were
>>96061541See
>>96061434The rules writers had it out for SWolves.
>>96060462Its easier to figure out when you realize GW fucking hates all things admech and regret making them playable
>>96061596Yep. Good ol days are over.
deag1
md5: df6ff10b9f906eb3f7a8464710b58ff2
๐
>>96061506glad to know im not alone. im going to get some games in, even if its with myself, of 3.0 as im sure i can at least learn things from its gameplay and design choices. ultimately i just wanna write lore for mydudes, convert more magos for my mech and have the motivation of game day to paint my models, play with my little army mans and have game days at my buddies basement.
all 3 editions have things that can/should be "fixed" to best placate a game group. part of me just thinks about writing my own heresy ruleset for fun, i like making homebrew rules or expansions and little rulesets as a hobby anyways. Been playing alot of 5th edition, and writing a codex for it has really made me think more and more about making my group our own heresy ruleset.
Im still getting a liber mechanicum book from my lfgs, if nothing else then just to have next to the 2.0 mess of a book, the red book and the black books on my shelf.
>>96061547fellow mechoid, well met magos.
1) yeah the melee in 2nd ed blows hot ass as mech. my castellax kill more via detonation than by swinging. ive played plenty of 2nd ed games using the old WS chart like
>>96061548 mentions and it does help a surprising amount.
2) like you mention a huge issue is the anti-mech slander of 2nd ed with their change to krak grenades being automata poppers. i like your suggestions for changing them. no auto hits is huge but so would making them breaching 5+.
3) myrimadon secs def could use going to 3W imo, phased plasma having gets hot is abhorrent to lore and gameplay. id honestly make it so gets hot is not at weapon AP, just feels silly and extra punishing to non marinefags. Destructors on the otherhand i feel like should get their power fist back, or at least count it as a servo arm, goddamn
4) totally agree. the faq fucked up mech play bigtime in that reguard. mech players should want to fuck around with their technomagic bullshit. frankly, i miss the chance of awakening a robot's malefic AI
cont..
>>96061547>>96061631cont,
5)krios are very good for their points. id bump their points by maybe 20, but also give them an option for buying flair shields back, maybe another 25 points or more. lets players live up to krios lore but you gotta pay for it.
6) GW hates admech and mechanicum, knights and titans get hurt in the wake of it, its a sad thing. they should be fucking spooky to have on the table.
What's weird to me as a word bearers bro is like, I thought I was already prepared for this shit. I was expecting the legion rule to be shit because GW thinks zealots = morale, whatever. I was expecting to lose warpfire plasma, OK cool I can just run it as regular plasma, I didn't regret the plasma theme I went with because green plasma OSL looks fly as hell on word bearers still. Okay we lost tainted weapons, who gives a fuck LMAO. OK we lost corrupted, it sucks, honestly it really fucking sucks, but I was prepared to lose it. Okay gal vorbak lost rage and power fists, whatever I didn't model any fists anyway and the models and profile is still cool. But it's just something about all of these losses together, despite bring braced for them, that makes it really hard to muster any motivation to keep working on them, despite me going into this project as a models over rules guy.
>>96061646>But it's just something about all of these losses together, despite bring braced for them,It's hard to force yourself to eat when the food suddenly has no flavor what-so-ever
>Spend 2 weeks worrying about whether I should kitbash from a limited ed model
>Do it anyway
>Illegal
>>96061673Just chop off the volkite part of the combi and stick a grav on :^)
>>96061682I'm not going to be giving James the satisfaction. I think I've gotten away fairly easy considering what some anons are dealing with right now from what I can glean from the Heresy community's panic right now
So wait, Characters can actually tank hits in melee as well as in range? So all those ap3 power weapons are going to be trash since the Centurion will just tank them on 2s and give the breaching ones to the tacticals right? The only way to prevent a Centurion from tanking hits in melee is to lock him in a challenge.
>>96061673same thing here, same model, even the same servo arm I think.
>>96061447Despoiler squad vs other despoiler squad, anon.
>>96061489>it was printed upside down and backwordsMy sides, anon. Please tell me that is really true, and post pics
I just realized, no mortifactor in the list I saw. Will go back to check but god damnit. Coolest HQ idea, and they didn't do anything cool with it in 2 editions.
Any chance leakeranon has some more generic unit leaks? Tacs, seekers, tac supp etc?
Please tell me cataphractii can still take power fists and power claws.
>>96061760ill try to get some pics next time i see him. GW actually sent him a second book to replace it. he moved a couple months ago so the scrapecode tome might still be packed away somewhere.
i should stipulate, the covers, index/table of contents and legal pages are all fine, but past that for some reason its all out of whack.
>>96061713you will use the new challange system anon
>>96061762its sad to be sure. its a cool concept for marines to have
>>96061673he looks very nice though. well done
Since everyone is quitting horus heresy, can I have all of your old models? I want to kitbash some cooler veteran primaris marines for 40k.
Just woke up, where's the Auxilia and Mechanicum rules?
>>96061835H.Y.C.Y.B?
Some mech stuff is earlier in the thread, no luck on auxilia yet I think.
Will the rest of the decade belong to his edition?
>>96061851You've asked this several times, and each time you're resoundingly told to fuck off, faggot.
>>96061851Doesn't he weight like 400+ lb? If that is the case I don't think we need to worry about him lasting the decade.
>>96060444>ECI honestly think EC doesn't look that bad considering many units are no longer stubborn or inexorable. You can't react to them. They'll strike first, your models will die first, and your guys will run away.
Many units lost their AP2 melee weapons, so cheaper palatines in 2+ with vanguard (3) and new AP3 weapons (with breaching 5+) by default will probably wreck 90% of units in 3+ and maybe some Tartaros terminators. Phoenix Termies lost their insane defense capability; in return, they are no longer penalized by -1A if they improve their WS. Spears with D2 on a charge will help break big 3+ 2w squads. Palatine and Phoenix sergeants are still potentially very strong in duels, especially with Prime Advantage, which boosts their WS and A. Kakophoni seems to continue their support role this time with Stuns (that turns off reactionsโyou only need to HIT the unit for a -2 Cool check to take place) from 36 away (+move). They divided melee characters into a duelist who will strike first (Lucius) and the deep strike guy (Eidolon). Yeah, he lost his fast hammer, but he still strikes faster than other TH/Fist D2 characters due to being EC. Fulgrim? I'm just happy he can now actually kill terminators with D2 attacks like other primarchs lol.
Reaction: I'm not sure if it's hereticus only, but removing statuses (i.e., removing the i1 penalty) and getting +S and FnP 6+ when someone charges you seems ok? Hereticus RoW might be good since removing statuses returns you to your normal Initiative, and +S will compensate for losing 1S on Phoenix spears (for 2+ against marines) and hammers (for 2+/3+ against T6/T7). Also, with +1S, new palatine weapons wound T4 on 2+.
While homogenization and simplification are undeniable, I think they tried to keep the spirit of perfectly planned operations of EC since they can't be countered by reactions (due to stuns from kakaphoni and new shriekers). IMO they kept their more or less strong melee focus without making it OP.
>>96061596>>96061434So now Russ can't beat other primarchs like he used to? How much weaker Russ is compared to 1st and 2nd edition?
Alan Bligh collected Space Wolves. They waited patiently for their chance to give his creation one final indignity.
>>96061923I thought he was a mechanicumfag
>>96060561Same brother Truth Bringer.
>>96061273Soo we get to have more troops? That is it?
>>96061284Valrak tells people modern 40k is shit and you shouldn't play it all the time man
>>96061895He lost his flat -1 to be hit.
His sword auto-wounds on a 5+ and does 3 damage on those swings. But all Primarchs have at least Eternal Warrior(2) (Vulkan has EW(3)) so he'll only ever do 1 damage a swing.
S8 on his sword swings means he's wounding most other primarchs on 2s, and his Howl gambit gives him +5 to his Focus rolls in challenges.
He's definitely nerfed.
But then, all other primarchs got beaten hard by the nerf bat as well.
Comparatively, he's not terrible, but he's by no means the bully of other primarchs he used to be.
Well at least I have TOW and MESBG to fall back on. What a disaster.
I want to see the land speeder rules desu
Have we seen the base centurion rules?
>>96061974I wish I could keep playing 2.0 but my local store is full of paypigs who will consume any new content from GW good or bad.
Will this be the actual fucking death of Horus Heresy as a game?
I don't see how fixing all the things they've utterly wrecked is even possible now.
Unmitigated fucking disaster.
>>96061990Doesnt work when whales exist
We had a decent run. All things have to end somewhere.
bros is it worth getting into 30k at this point? i lost interest in 40k since 10th came out and heard 30k has way more focus on customization, should i just stick to 2.0?
>>96061947Shame. I've thought that whole gimmick of Russ that he can beat almost any other primarch. Now he is lost that gimmick.
>>96061257>not anything impressive at 475 pointswhere is 475 points came from?
>>96062003Ye, stick to 2.0. You'll have fun, and books will be cheap now (if you get in while people are selling to fund their next ed armies and before there's no more excess stock).
>>96062004Time will tell just how he does. Because like I said, all the other primarchs got hit hard too, other than Horus Ascended.
So on paper he definitely weaker, the question is whether or not weak Russ will do better than all the other greatly-weakened primarchs.
HH3 is the result of you assholes not gatekeeping hard enough. All the new people that jumped to 2nd edition caused GW to notice Heresy and start it's usual jewery.
>>96062024surely that started with the betrayl at calth and burning of prosperro box games letting players in with plastic minis, bypassing FW for alot of basic marine infantry. i assume thats when GW took notice that heresy could be milked, leading to them taking it from FW like they did with titanicus
>>96061536The Rules Drop Massacre
>>96060126Well looks like all my Terror Squads with chainswords and guns are illegal now.
>Finally have a whole range of well painted miniatures to choose from for varied army lists for a fresh new ed to join at the very beginning
>GW kills the entire spirit of the game and community
>>96061209What a fucking joke
>>96062048No. I'd really just hoped HH was safe.
>>96062058In all seriousness so did I. Iโve stuck with HH and fantasy to avoid the main game churn and this really hurts and makes me fear for the future of TOW as well.
>>96062010ironically i was debating if i should get the mechanicum liber last week and my group advised me to wait for the new edition to drop
>>96061209I feel like I'm going FUCKING INSANE
>>96062064>>96062058What's preventing you from continuing with 2.0? That's what I'll be doing with my frens, after we saw the shit show that is the libers
>>96062084I mean yeah that is the ideal solution. The problem is idk if I can convince my group to stick with 2.0.
>>96061990Yep I ainโt getting that starter box
Like, ok, nerfs, changes whatever, are one thing,but the sheer incompetence of missing texts, abilities that are referenced before, missing loadouts for weapons that are in kit and who knows what else, is straight up embarrassing
This is worse than any homebrew in terms of incompetence
>>96061273That's the thing anon...
It's never been more fucking over
I have in my possession a leaked errata/ faq and the upcoming legacies PDF. Get it here, anons!
it's just a table of contents with everything that's currently missing, but every single entry is just a picture of james workshop and the rules writers doing DX crotch chops, aimed at the viewer
>>96062101I don't understand why so many gear options were gutted in a really inconsistent manner. It's ironic that Lerneans get a shitload of options when we can already steal other UUs
>>96062058How?
the moment Bligh died I knew what direction it will take
>>96062137IMPOSSIBLE! YOU CANT BE THAT OMNISCIENT!!!
>slowly working through army for 2e
>3e is dropping
>it sucks
thanks gw
Me tink me gwaan tek mi own life
>>96062164>was planning to assemble and paint AL>tfw probably going to look like a WAACfag now
>>96062003Yes people are doom posting bad but most of the customizations just going to be in the seperate legacy pdf thatโs free at launch anon. Heresy also has the grace to actually release new units as an edition goes on unlike 40K, and unlike 10e, the core of 3.0 is still good
Join usโฆ
Join usโฆโฆ
>>96062084>>96062093My group is currently discussing this. We'll give 3.0 a chance, and maybe it'll be okay in actual practice. I get some of the sky is falling/has fallen stuff for some folks because they've got Destroyer companies as their main army, or they've got armies with lots of options; mine is luckily quite agnostic and not really been fucked with in terms of illegal loadouts so my army is fine, but who knows what the rules will feel like when we get going.
>>96062189i recently started printing a bunch of thallax to get properly into it too, my group is probably sticking to 2.0 either way
>>96062193I just hate when options that were there are gone. It sucks when you build something for a list and it's gone. Even if it's shit, it's still better to at least have it, you know?
>>96062189I like the standard rules and love my legion rules. I will be moving to 3.0.
>>96062101They don't give a shit! You paypiggies will pay for whatever slop they put out
This company is worth ยฃ5 BILLION. It's not because they make fine art, it's because they have subdued and pacified all critics of their slop so much that the critics continue to buy
Anyone think Horus is kind of ass? Seems super deadset in embracing the new Primarch beatstick role. I'm wondering if base Horus is even worth it? May as well go all in with Ascended and run him around with some fodder despoilers since deep striking is meh
>>96062215its incredible to see how much they have managed to shift their community outlook and perception on things, starting i think with 40k, predominantly 6/7th ed moving into 8th onwards, they managed to pull more people into the game and also convince the playerbase only the most up to date rules and editions can be used and that game balance, competitive missions and constant FAQ is good and makes the game healthy or somthing. its crazy how much GW players, mainly 40k in my experience, refuse the concept of playing previous editions, even if they admit to preferring previous editions, or how their army played before the most recent competitive mission army pack 87
>>96062237At least you got options. Lorgar should be around 200 points for that shit stat line and nothing burger army buff.
>>96061851No, the game is fucking dead.
Hope they fire the entire team behind this insulting garbage.
>>96062247I noticed this in my club too, especially the baffling mindset that they can't play non competitive
One guy bought Spartan and then was crying he couldn't use it in a tournament, I even offered to show him heresy he refused and instead tried to make his own tournament at 1k points.
There's just no reasoning with these people
>>96062211Yeah, let's see how that works out now.
>>96062261Sorry anon, they still need to use the AI for other things, like the next edition of titanicus and BFG Heresy, and don't forget mordheim
>>96062267Hope they don't edit out all of Grok's slurs and redpills next time then.
>>96062211Lol no, I have my 2.0 libers
40k are the true paypigs mr no games no models
>>96061947Russ has a gambit that's shit against primarch. He's gonna pop it r1 since it's for continued effect buffs until he fails to wound opponent, which against primarch will be r1. Opponent will choose the +1strength +1dmg gambit since they're already going 2nd and their Vulkan/Horus equivalent smashes Russ into the dirt with a Dmg4 hammer (dmg5 when he critically hits on 5+) which can force 2-3 wounds onto russ while russ sword is only dealing 1 wound to any primarch.
If it's vulkan he uses the heal d3 next round so he effectively has 9 wounds, russ has only 6 even though his weapons are toys compared to the 4-5 wound hammering (and russ and any other dmg 1-2 primarchs don't really benefit from the strike-harder gambit because eternal)
Regular Horus hammers bonks for 4-5 using spank gambit so Russ is paste, and starts with 7 wounds, he'll take some damage but win like 90% of time vs Russ.
Supersaiyan Horus has T8 and EW(3) and FNP5+ (extra-negating Russ gambit) and 8 wounds base, so Russ cant even scratch him. He uses +1STR +1DMG and his mace bonks Russ at Dmg 4 (5 on crits) Makes Russ a bug.
Dorn can't be wounded on 1-4 so Russ gambit ends instantly and the extra strength does nothing. If he does hit-hard gambit he wounds Russ on 3+ and all 4+ are Dmg4 (so 2/hit)
Girlyman is Dmg3-4 pfist so he spanks Russ, and once Russ gambit ends, the gladius +1i and +3-4 from turn lets him steal round 2 or 3 to insta-gib wounded Russ.
Lion instantly crushes Russ if he gets dmg 4. And when everyone's wounded Lion always goes first, if they both have 2 wounds left, Lion just gambits to get +2I and ignore -4I from wounds, chops last 2 off instantly
Lorgar big hammer, russ dead.
and so on
>>96062283Speak for yourself threadshitter
>The history of the Horus Heresy oft mentions the campaigns of Archmagos Draykavac, one of the most active generals of the traitorous factions of the Mechanicum. He led assaults on numerous worlds and participated in a number of key conflicts, conceiving of grand plans that could well have tipped the war in Horus' favour. However, these plans most often proved to be failures and Draykavac's true genius was revealed to be in the conception of foolproof escape plans that ensured he always lived to fight another day.
Big D is canonically Team Rocket now
>>96062276You're proving my point. Any new models you inevitably buy will fuel GW and suggest to them that their business practices are in fact genius
>>96062291>You buyI print
>>96062287>B-but the new plastics are still good, I can buy them to use with my homebrew 2.5e!
>>96062252>lorgar should be around 200 pointsSpotted the retard who doesn't understand how nothing in the game survives a bonking with Strength 8, AP2, Damage (3/4 base) and goes to damage 4/5 when gambiting.
Damage 5 means eternal warrior 2 primarchs still are taking 300% more damage than normal primarch weapons. Lorgar is like last edition where his Brutal hammer was overpowered and made him win nearly every primarch fight.
>>96062252also, Lorgar is already among the most powerful hitting primarchs in the entire game now and that's non-daemon primarch Lorgar (who was a wimp)
Ascended-Lorgar will probably be absolutely bonkers if he gets even half the glow-up of Ascended-Horus.
>>96062247 I think itโs the reverse. GW is a dumb animal and the loud competitive 40k crowd convinced it to be the way it is through stick and carrot. Now itโs simply doing what it is trained to do, hit it on the nose and tell it no. House rule, play old editions, refuse games from shills.
>>96062237No, both versions of Horus are among the strongest primarchs in game by a wide margin. Combat in HH3 boils down to who has a big hammer that hits so hard that enemy's eternal warrior cant save them.
>>96062314Any hardcore autistic grog in the games design department has probably been kicked out by a trannydike for being "weird"
Time to add Blood Bowl tier lists to Heresy so those with shit legions get to be smug at events despite going 0/1/4 while those with top tier legions get talked about behind their backs for being WAAC
>>96062297Why are you projecting things onto people like this?
Go back to the sharty faggot
>>96062317Unironically, those types ruin any environment they are in.
They may have left on their own accord too.
Trannies, DEIs and HR-people are usually insufferable to work and interact with.
>>96062198I know anon, have a sympathetic (you) from me
Shit Legion* sisters, what are we going to do?
*Roughly 13 of 18
>>96062281Holy shit Russ now is the weskest primarch. What a fucking mess.
>>96062352Stop playing this dogshit game and sell our armies to clueless redditors
>>96062352I genuinely don't know. I've converted every single model in my army and a lot of it now can't be played. I genuinely don't know
>>96062367Guess weโre just gonna have really pretty custom armies in our shelf displays that get a whirl every now and then under other rulesets or as a hamstrung version of themselves
>>96062352>>96062362wait for the legacies pdf, you can't cast judgment on this edition just based on the leaked core rules and libers. trvst the plvn
:^)
>>96062373Mfw people in this thread just days ago were defending GW when I said they use scummy tactics that revolve purely around moving as much stock as possible.
Mfw no options on anything, champion can only swap between the 2 weapons on the different models.
Mfw no termie options before GW even squat the current box contents
>>96062356Primarch v primarch fights are going to end up making events impossible if you truly can opt to keep going forever till someone is dead. A real life war of attrition on how araed you can be to finish a 4 turn game.
Only an idiot would add that to a game. And worse there are gambits tied to that specific outcome so it's not as simple as house ruling that you only swing once each per turn
No leaks on Recon squads just yet?
>>96062414We got Recon, check the MEGA the anon posted earlier. I'm still waiting on Tactical and Despoiler since I'm a filthy Troop spammer.
>>96059409>the lowest IN of any high command marineHow in the goddamn is Eidolon not at rock bottom?
Hard to believe that this is an actual game system designed by a billion dollar gaming company
>>96062429They probably have exactly three writers who are beholden to making random changes to they can convince management they've 'improved,' the game dramatically in board meetings so they don't lose their jobs. The rest of the company probably also hates them for being writers in a room full of corporate businessmen and half of them probably want them replaced with AI.
Absolutely zero of that billion dollar company goes to the actual writing.
The final primarch duel brawling tierlist is here.
Primarch Tierlist
SS tier: Horus-Ascended (perfect attack+def)
S tier: Vulkan, outnumbered Lorgar (+2A on giga hammer), outnumbered Mortarion (+3 scythe attacks, add to having +1 toughness, +1 wound, enemy crits only working on 6+ and eternal warrior 3 so crits and non-crits normally deal 1 damage, grinds things down), Guilliman (late game with +initiative)
A tier: Horus, Lorgar, Ferrus Mannus, Mortarion* (if not getting +3 attacks),
B tier: Rogal Dorn (wounded on 5+ only not 2+), Guilliman (early game), Fulgrim (1 dmg per hit but going first and getting 9 attacks against slow people like vulkan is fair compensation, but situational as some primarchs arent slow), Angron (charging, otherwise drop a tier), Lion (with Lion Blade)
C tier: Perturabo, DaemonAngron (penalty for crap stats per cost),
D tier: DaemonFulgrim (really crap stats per cost), Alpharius, Sanguinius (encarmine)
F tier: Leman Russ, Magnus, Jaghatai, Corax, Konrad Curze, Sanguinius (spear/moonblade), Lion (with Wolf Blade - Russ even makes Lion suck somehow)
Bet my collection custodes are going to be absolutely infuriating to play against.
Will be all written by one golden fanboy because gw don't care as long as the book is published for ยฃ$โฌ
>>96062427I noticed that they gave him Impact (A). Not bad, taking into account these are slightly faster TH attacks with critical.
His implant is S3 now, so it can maybe wound marines on 5+. 6+ wounds are still AP2 but without old Rending. With Breaching 6+, his cap is T6 (which is ok, I guess). It also still has pinning in comparison to Sonic Lance.
Archaeotech Pistol is S6 Breaching 3+ D2 now, so he has a chance to shoot down someone important during the volley.
>>96062429I think their being a billion-dollar company is part of the problem. Enshittification theory applies here, I think. The game is not actually designed to be a game first, it's designed to produce value for the company and its stakeholders. At the billion-dollar scale the incentives are just that much more powerful.
>>96062247The reason people play 40k over other mini games is because it's popular enough to where you can get a game against someone almost anywhere in the world with a trivial amount of effort. As soon as you start bringing in house rules, old editions, custom missions etc. then that ease of access goes away.
You're never going to get a large buy in to play older editions, because the sort of person who would put up with the faff of finding a game for a less popular system is already not playing a GW product.
>>96062003Even with all the bitching 3.0 is still better than 40k
>>96061273It was in the same page with the rule that lets you turn a praetor into a psycher, idk what everyone elese is saying
>>96062314If 40k competitive players want to ruin our hobby with HH 3.0, fine, we'll take their hobby away from them, too. Burn down their tournament venues. Smash their models. Destroy your store's 40k stock. And make sure they know that it's because they ruined Horus Heresy. Make sure they know it's because they destroyed your hobby.
Voting with your wallet doesn't work, but doing heinous enough shit to draw in journalists does
>>96061249No model=no rules is guaranteed corpo bullshit. I doubt the rules writers are the ones who want less options. Specially when they bothered making the weapon lists to begin with
>>96062501>tfw the new heresy edition is so bad it starts a terror wave
>>96062501LET THE 40KIDS SEETHE
LET THE SHILLS COPE
AND IF I CANNOT SAVE THE GAME FROM YOUR FAILURES, GW, THEN LET THE HOBBY BURN!!!
Though it takes the last drop of my blood, I will see the hobby freed once more and if I can not save it from your failure GW, then let the hobby burn!"
>>96062424My mistake. Anyway, wonder if the resin kit will get replaced too in the near future. Nothing on Seekers yet?
Despite the weird as fuck Tartaros power fist oversight mentioned earlier, the Praetor at least finally seems to get his 4++ back.
>>96061205>the stuff in the core legion list is actually pretty coolSame. I actually like the rules and most things being taken down a notch is not a bad thing imo. Weapon reworks take time to get used to but a lot of them seem to have a fine niche
They fixed bikes for once and generic jumpack vets are fantastixmc to have
But then they can't fucking helt themselves and have to remove all the consul options bc clearly a whole fucking page is not enough space for "can take items from the officer weapons list" or "can take a jumppack or bike or termue armour for X points"
The worst oart is that the legacies pdf is likely to have destroyers and thenlike but it's almost guaranteed to not have the entries in the liber with the missing options. They'd basically have the reorint half the fucking book there
Rules wise I fucking hate the challenge shit tho. Half the fucking rules are related to that and I couldn't care less about them
>>96062317>Autistic grogs are gone.Their boss Andy Hoare is chief autistic grog.
Who can say where the road goes?
>>96062356Finally the tabletop is following the lore.
>>96062528If he allowed this to happen he clearly isn't one anymore.
>>96060763>This is the same as the edition where basic troop marines shoot 4 shits at 30" with -1AP modier and +1 to hit, rerolling all hits and wounds if you want toNo, it's not you delusional faggot
3.0 has brought down the lethality of most thing from 2.0, not made it retardedly higher
People might like 2.0 better but it's still a way better system than 40k has been since 8th came out
>>96062308there's not gonna be any Lorgar Ascended, idiot
Do you think GW is gonna respond to the leaks and backlash???
On a more positive note...Librarians being able to take two psychic disciplines is cool I guess? Uh...Optae's seem like a cheap tax way to get free detachments? They also seem customisable...That's fun
>>96062565Sure. They are totally going to add back every wargear option lost from 1st and 2.0. Just wait and see. Totally going to happen. L M F A O.
>>96062565Here's what's gonna happen
>things like destroyers and maybe a couple of missing wargear options will appear in the legacies pdf>the shills will say this solves everything even though half of your army is still invalidated>because of this, 3.0 will supplant 2.0 and you'll be forced to play it if you want to play HH, just like what happened with 40k 10th edition supplanting 9th ed despite some 9th ed players saying they weren't going to make the switchWatch the coming weeks
>>96062564100% chance that daemon Lorgar will be in a paid DLC journal, dumbfuck
>>96062575>>96062578Surely Legacies isn't just a "separate but equal" kind of deal? They wouldn't turn us into second class citizens for daring to kitbash?
Surely they won't come after ME?
>>96062565if none of us buy saturnine, it's possible they will fix the game. If we buy it, there's a 0% chance they fix it.
They've unfucked their mistakes in the past, like when they removed khorne's hero dog, or all slaanesh chariots. But their unfuckings usually only remove 30% of the things they broke. (But that'd be so much better than leaving it 100% trash)
>>96062595It is but you will not get back your wargear options in legacies. At most that's where destroyers along with jump pack and terminator variants of units will end up and that's it.
Putting a Siege Breaker together - does the new edition mean I HAVE to give the price a Thunder Hammer because of the resin model?
>>96062565Theyโll likely drop a community article to try and act as damage control or maybe talk about some upcoming journals thatโll drop showing off shit that might persuade people to stay. They canโt outright say โyeah sorry we heard we fucked up lolโ because they now have thousands of boxes and books printed out that they NEED to sell, and for some reason despite how often they like to take it up the ass businessmen will never get on their knees and apologise for doing something stupid if their main reason for doing so was to make money in an unsavoury way
>>96062565No, the narcissistic faggots on the rules team only interact with redditor play tester and "influencer" sycophants best, who are glad to get the opportunity to lick gigacorpo ass.
There aren't even any venues to community with them directly beyond maybe email, if they don't send it directly in the trash, since GW has made a direct effort to fully control all methods of communication and official media since they get bombarded with questions about their horrible business practices otherwise.
The only real effect the actual community can have on them is if the rules team are feeling extra petty and makes something worse out of spite for the community constantly asking them why they fuck everything up all the time.
They live in a hugbox and despise any criticism of whatever fart fumes they are huffing that day, like the new armour designs being overall disliked and them still deciding to fuck up more marks without a care in the world or respect for the original designs. Like seriously, the designer was in one of the recent articles discussing how they made the new mk2 design and outright said he changed it because he thought the old widely loved and icon part of HH as a setting design looked stupid, it was probably a similar story with the mk3 and 6 designs.
They know far less and care less about the HH than the average player does, and have absolutely no respect for the story and history of the setting.
>>96062642>like the new armour designs being overall dislikedYou think way too highly of the people on 4chan and b&c, the general consensus among normies (GWs target audience) was that mk3 and 6 were amazing refreshes
Why aren't Tarvitz & Lucius high command? By the HH they were among the highest ranking officers in the legion.
>>96062614I'm not buying Saturnine, but I know a number of 40kids who have never touched HH who are buying it. It's fucking over
>>96062642the "testers" are absolutely worthless. They exist only so GW can lie and tell shareholders that they do "research" before risking money on releases at random.
I was shocked when I was in the discord testing the daemon codex, there was about 1 week of real testing between when the actual rules were given to testers sand when GW decided the codex was finished. Literally nothing changed because of testing.
>>96062593Why are you here? Daemon Lorgar during the heresy?! No games, no models and no lore.
>>96062630Yeah, maybe they should have listened to the community more when they had the chance, now it's all too late. I can't see any way they can realistically course correct now.
I hope they all get fired for this shitshow especially whoever was responsible for overseeing this, that is probably going to cost them tens of millions, HH is fucking dead.
>>96062657Testing is just there so you don't end up with codex:space monkey 2 electric boogaloo.
>>96062655it's some real butterfly effect shit. 40k players are buying saturnine because the Centurion-Devastator sculpts are so shit that they'll use the centurion-sized terminators for centurions.
Custodian players are buying the telemon dreadnoughts since they'll be 40-50 each instead of 150 for a resin dread.
Then generic marine-trooper bodies are just proxies for any legionary chaos space marine troopers in 40k.
Horus Heresy is killed now and the nail in the coffin will be GW deciding their new fuckup isn't a horrible rule-set because 40k players bought saturnine for proxies.
>>96062653They were line officers. WTF is the thread filled with secondaries...
>>96062655Those retards never stick around, and that's doubly so considering the absolute clusterfuck that is the rules-writing this edition.
I'm not as "game = dead" as others but you'd have to be a moron to do any conversions going forward.
We had some dude in our community happily chopping up expensive resin characters to make unique hq's and squad leaders for his force cause he is a moneybags.
Now he'll buy fuck all. GG
>>96062673But buying saturnine is all GW needs from them. GW has literally stated in investor reports that they gain a lot of revenue from people who buy the big boxed sets, then drop the hobby. Our hobby is being ruined by paypigs.
>>96062566Yea librarians are pretty neat
Perils doesn't hit as often either so that's great
It hits like truck when it does tho
>>96062595Legacies are still perfectly legal units
The problem is that all the missing options are probably not going to be in legacies
You'll get destroyers, bike praetors, centurions and maybe command squads, probably the missing consuls
But I really doubt they are going to put every consul entry on the legacies pdf just to add a line saying they can take weapons from the officer melee weapons list
>>96062665I think "Le heckin saturnine termies" might be a huge draw for plenty of secondaries because of the swathe of cringy "lore-tubers" on YouTube hyping it up, but those dumbasses aren't returning customers and won't as much as open the rulebooks beyond looking at the pretty pictures.
And depending on if they release saturnine termies outside the big box that will eat up plenty of sales, since they just want that.
>>96062687And that's not even mentioning all the legion specific units which have lost like 90% of their options.
Legacies may be a band-aid but it won't heal the bleeding.
>>96062674I think it is AoS3.0-tier. The edition is 100% DOA, but the franchise is obviously strong enough to survive. I wanted to start 30k in my group because I finished most of my 40gay stuff and have a decent pile of shame of 30k models from 2.0, but now neither I nor my group wants to even bother. I'll pick up a starter box or two, once we'll get some good sales though.
>>96062653High command are probably commandors like Eidolon, Vespasian, and Abdemon.
Solomon Demeter, Marius Vairosian, Lucius, Tarvits, and Charmosian were line company leaders; even first captain Julius Kaesoron treated lord commandors as superior at first.
It sucks cause I wanted to get some saturnine since I thought theyโd be fluffy for WBโs to have
>proclivity to plasma/warpfire so plasma bombards are perfect
>more โpsykerโ attuned people cause of chaos shenanigans
But now I just feel like Iโd be supporting 3.0 which is really not what I want to do at this rate, which sucks cause they look like theyโd be fun to paint.
I'm sorry, but I'm gunna buy my honking chonking Saturnine and use them every game for this entire edition and there is nothing you souless fags are going to say to convince me otherwise. <3
>>96062687If they aren't in the rulebook I don't trust them not to fuck with them, like just randomly removing units or wargear options and declaring them illegal to use at a moments notice.
Whats baffling to me is that 2.0 was made with the idea of kit bashing stuff, you buy a marine body and an upgrade kit of weapons and you get whatever you want, from Seekers to Special weapon squads and command squads so the idea that certain units lose options because they dont have it in their kit makes no sense at all.
Im still gonna buy it and desu my legions of choice didnt get hit that hard, IF units never had any options to begin with and NL rules are looking really fun. I might not play the game but the model range is top notch and I think a lot of people feel that way, sad that they bungled the libers so badly because the core rules looked fun and they seemed to have put a lot of care in that aspect.
>>96062700Lucius was elevated to lord commander prior to the Drop Site Massacre.
>>96062714Use them in what games? No one will be left to play with you
>>96062642I don't know why fa/tg/uys are so find of describing that behaviour as reddit when the bulk of 30K reddit are fucking seething at this set of leaks, tempered only by less people having seen them.
>>96062689heckin saturninos are just synthetic oldfaggotry, it's a way to convince a hobby sphere obsessed with being old grogs that they're the oldest grogs to ever grog by letting them buy their way into the one true oldfag terminator that only true fans know about. Never mind that it was a single model from an experimental period of sculpting that wasn't even hugely popular at the time.
>>96062715Yea cuz being in the libers in 2.0 helped so much...
Don't expect them to change units once they are out
If 2.0 is anything to go by we aren't even going to get any rules changes once the books are out for the next 3 years
>>96062725Yeah, he was promoted by the whim of Fulgrim. He was despised in command circles but didn't care and just enjoyed the position while walking around and trying to pick another fight. I wouldn't really call him a high-command person, since he never really was in charge of EC millennials like other lord commanders prior to him.
>>96061381Thanks anon, I have honestly given up on playing new editions at this point. Just going to be homebrewing everything if possible.
>>96061020>Paladins are insanely goodTheyre comparable to the vanilla prime upgrade that gives +1WS (and some other stuff). Theyre good, but theyre a sidegrade of something everyone else gets at the cost of something more widely useful.
>Inner circle can get to WS7 with a terranic greatswordYour preceptor is not going to be winning challenges even with the sgt upgrade. Terranic greatswords cant highroll characters any more and he only has 2w. Its nice, but its incredibly niche as far as use-cases goes.
>interemptors are good enoughSure, but worse than before.
>companions have eternal warrior(1)Yea, thats pretty nice.
>corswain is a great duellistHe was before too, but yea hes tasty. Although only being an eternal warrior in challenges might hurt. Marduk got majorly nerfed, hatred is just not what it used to be and worse than what he gave.
>advanced reaction is pretty goodI think its very niche. Whatever fights you are in on the enemy turn are probably favored for the enemy, so most of the time it feels like its just "lose again but harder" imo.
>Nothing broken, but nothing needlessly bad.I do not disagree. But that is a loss from where they were previously. DA were one of the big winners of 2.0, and are now probably middle of the pack. Id say that counts as a loss.
>>96060745>>96060681Just run them as regular centurions/centurion command squads.
>>96061203>Does Reaping work in duels?No, explicitly not.
>>96061257They go before power fists/hammers with breaching 4+ attacks, and only take 1 wound from power fists and hammers.
Ravening madmen is there because of eternal warrior(1).
>they will instant kill your squadLiterally no primarch is doing that. The lion has 7 attacks hitting on 2s wounding on 2s with damage 3. Hes still only killing like 3 butchers.
The fist is also not there to fight primarchs are you stupid. It means when you make him WS6 4A as a master sgt he can go threaten any centurions that might be in the area, or so he fucks up dreadnoughts that look at you funny.
>>96061851I can see why people would jump up this guys ass. He does bring up solid points none the less. I say see what he cooks up and if you donโt like it, continue as normal.
>>96061421>Trust me, i have fucking tried to get people to play 4th ed with 3rd ed codexes for a long fucking time, i even offer up the pdf codexes and no one wanted to.And they were fools, because that was peak 40k.