True Crime Vampires Edition
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>Thread Question:
>Have you ever successfully run a horror mystery campaign? What was it?

Finally got in a W20 game, Looking forward to it. Soon i'll only need 3 remaining splats to be touched to be ''finished'' with all the lines.

>>96060276 (OP)
When players are helpless humans faced with horror they default to Allahu Akbar, regardless of how futile you'd make that resistance.
Keep them alive, remove all agency from them, and as the reprehensibility of this abuse will hurt you more than them they'd still try to burn it all down with sheer hatred.

>>96060180

Well, Revised Player's Guide to the Changing Breeds unquestionably had better art overall. And neither one of them has good stats for Rokea shark forms (one size fits all for dozens of species that you're likely to be able to pick from? Sure, why not! Meanwhile, every last Bastet tribe has its own unique stat line for all forms.)

>>96060276 (OP)
The closest thing to that was when a malkavian player felt discussed by his first feeding as it played out like a rape scene.

What would you say are the best editions for each splat, for someone who just heard about it and thinks it sounds neat?

>>96060398
>Meanwhile, every last Bastet tribe has its own unique stat line for all forms.
The art in the breedbook tells you Exactly why they put so much work into them. The rokea just had the bad-luck that none of the writers had a mermaid fetish.

>>96060427
20th is the best edition of vampire and changeling mechanically, but the best lore is either 2e or revised for both as well.

>>96060398
>>96060456
Which Hengeyokai book its better?

In general and specifically for playing an orphan kit adopted by Bone Gnawers.

>>96060470
dunno, didn't read the w20 beast courts book.

>>96060488
Not W20, who cares about W20, I mean original ones from '98 and '02. Thinking bout which to get, barely remember them.

You become a newly turned vampire during the 90s. Maybe you got unlucky and got the shovelhead treatment just after the isekai, maybe you are a Malkavian in denial about the source of your metaknowledge, whatever, it doesn't really matter.

The point is you know you have less than a decade before potentially being killed by any of the world ending calamities you know are coming.

What do you do? Is metaknowledge enough to overcome all the issues dragging the setting towards self-destruction, or is fleeing the sinking ship somehow your only hope?

>>96060527
I mean if your a vampire, Your dead if you stay on world depending on whatever clan wins, Or if Kane gets balls and accepts forgiveness... So I'm instead gonna just blow my time and money on S-P-A-C-E to get humans off world and hope for the best.

>>96060464
20th is the worst edition for Vampire. It's cramped, dogshit abridgement of Revised, the sole thing it can boast is that Dodge is now merged with Athletics, and that doesn't excuse its general shittiness in the slightest. There's no benefit whatsoever using it over Revised.

>>96060527
Who was that mage that turned a vampire into human again? Maybe I should look for him.

>>96060527
There are ways to un-vampire yourself if you were really desperate. Cult of Osiris which accepts everyone, cooking a reincarnation or repossession ritual with Thaumaturgy and so on.

>>96060557
>cooking a reincarnation
Based Sadhana enjoyer.

>>96060537
Gonna be honest, I only use dark ages, so I'm not really aware of what v20 vanilla is like. How does it compare?

>>96060527
>is fleeing the sinking ship somehow your only hope?
This.
It doesn't matter how powerful or effective you are when the withering happens. VtM has the unique issue in that it's apocalypse wasn't caused by internal issues from the vampires, but a cosmic delete button god presses to destroy the vtm setting. There isn't shit you can do to avoid that other than "Don't be a Vampire".

>>96060527
Antes are eating their clans by remote in ToJ and the disciplines even methuselahs get say that once they're awake I'll need their permission to think about them. Fuck that, I'll gamble on golconda.

>>96060276 (OP)
>>Have you ever successfully run a horror mystery campaign?
Not run, but I played in one that ran for over 90 sessions and was a lot of fun.
>>What was it?
Multi-splat / multi-antagonists.

>>96060625
DAV20 is somewhat better.
Still worse than originals cause it tries to condense and cram so much unnecessary crap in one book, but it's not just flat out worse in all regards.

>>96060470
There was only one. The Beast Courts info in revised is piggy-backed into PGttCB, which isn't really a stand-alone Hengeyokai book by any means, more an update.

>>96060456
All the writers with mermaid fetishes went to Changeling.

>>96060696
It's fantastic if you want to reference mechanics without searching half a dozen books. Unfortunately still missing shit though.

I'm going to run my first VtM chronicle in a month. The players are my boyfriend and three of our friends. We all like horror and some of us have been wanting to play VtM but don't know any groups who do, so I finally bit the bullet and got the gang together. Setting will be 1920s Berlin and we're using V20. Any advice? Anything I should know?

>>96060527
>What do you do?
Travel to an irrelevant location, like Latin America or the Caribbean, and hope that I am out of the blast zone. After that, things become pretty normal. Maybe I get to invest in stuff using metaknowlege but I don't think that would be enough to "retire".

>>96060724
Some smaller parts of the game also got expanded, here and there. For instance, after repeatedly raising the topic of how the Zhong Lung and Same-Bito Gift categories in Hengeyokai were a kludge thrown together because the breed books were not out in '98, and how the PGttCB just retreated the kludges, the writers for W20 gave us essentially what should have been in the PGttCB Beast Courts section. So, you should definitely use those, because they build on and update what the breed books were doing.

Would preventing the Antes from waking, averting the Week of Nightmares, etc stop the "button" from being pressed?

>>96060742
>Any advice? Anything I should know?
Watch an actual play to see how the rolls work in practice and be aware that Berlin by Night exists and is considered shit by most people.
Besides that, good luck.

>>96060641
>There isn't shit you can do to avoid that other than "Don't be a Vampire".
Would preventing the Antes from waking, averting the Week of Nightmares, etc stop the "button" from being pressed?

>>96060773
>>96060801
Depends on the scenario but for the most part no.

>>96060464
>but the best lore is either 2e or revised
Can you give an example? I haven't touched them yet and now I'm very curious

>>96060742
I have no advice to give, but kudos to you for stepping up. I hope you all have a great time.

>>96060711
>There was only one. The Beast Courts info in revised is piggy-backed into PGttCB, which isn't really a stand-alone Hengeyokai book by any means, more an update.
Thanks for helping me make the choice!

>>96060742
Prepare for mechanical jank of the highest order. Do not feel obligated to follow any official material for the time and place. Give it a look if you want but feel no obligation to keep any of it. VtM is a lot less linear than other RPGs so remain flexible, you may need to fly by the seat of your pants at points.

Stick to an initial plot that's fairly small scale and stakes while everyone cuts their teeth. Once that's over you guys can either call it a chronicle well played or keep going with more if you want.

>>96060456
Why did they make Khans the best race?

>>96060527
How does that thing worl where Samuel Haight stole someone's Avatar? Would it be possible to do that then use true Magic to un-vamp and then awaken yourself?

I feel like being a marauder wouldn't be to bad as long as your paradigm is good for you

>>96061550
Debatable.
Bubasti make the best lovers.

Don't know if this is thread relevant, but... apparently, Vampire: The Requiem 1e floated the theory that the five Clans aren't actually subspecies of a single vampire race, but are instead five separate vampire species who just happen to be very similar in nature to each other, and who came to form a united society? Can anyone point to any source on this in-universe legend?

>>96061726
iirc that was from blurb from blood sucking kin or the core book.

>>96061603
I think you want the Blood Familiar rules from Black Hand, but I'd expect the mage to install a stake and a tap before they let their vitae stash cure itself.

>>96061726
>>96061828
That is speculation by mekhet when they described the similarities between the clans and the fat eaters.

If old Werewolf is furry Captain Planet what does that make new?

>>96061900
>If old Werewolf is furry Captain Planet what does that make new?
Furry Dead by Daylight.

>>96061900
Furry border patrol.

>>96061900
Pansexual Paw Patrol

>>96061603
he didn't steal someone's avatar. He had a branch of the nordic world tree that allowed everyone who used it to use true magic (till it overloads and explodes because only true mages can bleed the paradox from it)

he wanted to steal the true magic of a dreamspeaker with another artefact but he failed and it broke so we never did see if it would have worked

CtL2e is a good game on it's own, but doesn't get it's themes and intentions as nailed down as 1e. It also suffers from a case of not having enough time and books to grow into it's own.
CtL1e has more books and surpassed everyones expectations, but i think it was such a success because it was intended to be a limited gameline, so the devs had to make the most out of every book. And they succeeded in that so much, that i still hold Lost as the gold standard on how to make a splat good.

Powerlevel aside, it's a crime that 2e didn't get a translation guide for 1e books as it's last release. Just with that tgey could have saved 2e AND sell all 1e books at the same time.
But noooo, they had to waste time and money on B**st instead.

Maybe i'm just nostalgic for the time when CtL first released and getting the books one by one. You can still feel the love the authors had when reading through them. Artwork and worldbuilding are on point in them. Mechanicaly the low
initial powerlevel of changelings played well into the themes, especialy as they got more and more inate powers with every book. 2es initial powerlevel is pretty high, but that's mostly on the Contracts no longer being tiered 1-5 and Blessings being buffed. Both of those are just superficial however, as the true absurdity of CtLs powers always came in the forms of Dreamweaving, Tokens and Pledges. In many cases 2e is less powerfull, as some template abilities got either shrunk down (pledges) or where made into Contracts (Talecrafting) instead.

Anyone else feel this way? Or am i blinded by nostalgia and favouritism?

>>96062178
I think a good amount of nWoD games got a glow-up with 2e (Requiem and Forsaken being big ones), but I think 2e for CtL was a downgrade. I do not like the changes to the template and something about the fluff just seemed lacking in comparison. I really liked CtL's powercurve of starting fairly weak with some neat tricks, and how most of your oomph came from things that are conditional or require some cleverness. Even if 2e can't pull off the same horse piss at the high end, being able to brute force with cheap and powerful contracts runs contrary to what I enjoyed mechanically about Changelings. I liked how contracts were very specific, it all felt very fae to me.

Honestly though while I strongly disagree with the direction 2e went with CtL, I wouldn't blame the developers too much for a lack of materials for translating things across editions. Paradox was already well into soft-cancelling nWoD at that point. That they refused to approve new HtV books and even tried and failed to undercut its release with H5 makes me hope Paradox goes broke.

>>96061828
>>96061899
So, I checked out Night Horrors: The Wicked Dead, and there's a sidebar in the Formosae chapter titled "That thing about "Kindred" not really being Kindred", and it definitely mentions there's a theory that the Daeva/Gangrel/Mekhet/Nosferatu/Ventrue aren't really related so much as convergent evolution, but I feel there's a more in-depth examination of this idea somewhere... Anyone got any idea what I may be thinking of?

>>96062228
Both editions make you feel like Gentry at the high end i think.
The initial out-of-the-box powerlevel, if you include all the powers from all books, is higher in 1e. Think about it, not just Pledges, but all the other abilities from later books, not to mention the merits and Entitlements, are very strong, just not flashy.
And even then, 1e has a lot of contracts that are extremly stupid between all the useless filler.

Fluffwise i found the editions to be very compatible, even today i take most plothooks from 1e.

Other games are difficult to judge as i didn't play their first editions.

>>96062229
No idea, but I do like Requiem for how much it commits to the maybes and mystery of things.

>>96062251
What can I say other than I disagree? I genuinely like 1-5 dot contracts, and I don't think there are actually many "useless" or "filler" powers. CtL is one of my favorite WoD games period, I gave CtL2e a fair shake but I just don't like the changes.

>>96061726
1e Clan books are the big sources of those origins.

>>96061900
1e: furry ICE.
2e: furry hood gang.
Both are murderhobo.

Evening anons, putting together a short game for some of my existing chronicle's players and friends and I decided I want to be ambitious so it's a Sabbat game set in the Wild West.
Specifically, Tombstone, Arizona in 1865, just at the tail end of the US Civil War and just as the 2nd Sabbat Civil War starts to get spicy, my players have been given instructions on how to build their characters and so far we have;
>Malkavian Antitribbu Debutante from Louisianna
>Caitiff with an obsession with luck and themed around a mix of gunslinging and gambling
>Caitiff swamp witch
>Nagaraja cannibal outlaw with her ghoul outlaw posse
>Lasombra troublemaker who was forced into being Ductus to learn some leadership skills

The rough plot I have is:
>They get to town, it's thriving, there's a rich and verdant flavour to the town especially around the church where a statue of the virgin mary sits made out of locally mined silver
>As they start to settle in one or two get harassed and maybe one gets kidnapped by the pack who made it here first. Tensions flare, maybe they share, maybe they fight over the town.
>Either way, whether from notes or business records left behind, or rumours, or other methods, that first pack bought out the rights to one of the major silver mines and is trying to dig something up. Miners are having strange dreams after coming up.
>Joyful mania sweeps the town for a night, a dancing fever that overtakes many, it's mostly harmless but some injure themselves in the uncontrollable revelry.
>Strangers are sighted in the hills, wagons are attacked, torn apart by something huge, giant claw marks in wood.
>Sabotage in the mine, someone tried to collapse one of the deeper sections with dynamite but was subdued and beaten to death by the vengeful miners before it could go off, kept ranting something about an "earth mother". He's Irish so nobody pays much mind to his ravings

>>96062392
>Things move forwards, the wealth of the town continues to expand, more and more silver comes up, coins, jewelry, a new town hall, and the players observe traditions of planting a silver coin alongside seeds to 'help them grow'.
>A more serious attack by native tribes. While the horsemen attack the town itself howling can be heard from the direction of the mines. No trace of anything within the mines is found though there appear to be deep gouges in the stone like something was trying to claw at it.
>The local priest at the church holds a mass funeral for those lost, preaching a message of peace and that "the mother of gardens" will protect and watch over them.
>A traveling preacher shows up in town but refuses to step inside the church, he preaches a message of wealth corrupting and bringing out the vilest vices in people. It's going well until he rips the polished silver town crest from the new town hall and the townspeople rip him apart in a frenzy, claiming afterwards not to remember anything, several end up in the jailhouse nevertheless.
>Whispers in the bar of a "new vein" of "the purest ore you've ever seen" in the main mine. plants grown with silver in their roots begin developing thorns and buds of flowers.
>If any of the former pack still live they descend into the mine and come back excited The mine now works around the clock in shifts pulling the ore out.
>A series of heavy machines are put into the mine, they don't look like standard equipment.

>>96062393
>The Garou throw off any pretense of minimizing collateral damage and attack in force, barrelling through town, ripping and tearing as they go, as they get closer to the mine, the flower buds bloom and spread a pollen that drives the living into a mania of gleeful desecration, throwing themselves at garou in their insanity, attacking the pack, or even one another, the buildings, or themselves if no better target presents itself.
>And from there we find out the final revelations, the first pack had thought they had tracked down a Methuselah buried beneath the earth in local legends but what they had found and exposed the town to was an Earthbound which is now free of its bonds.
>Cue finale

How does this seem as a story? I know my players are pretty experienced but I think I can lean more into the "Sabbatiness" of this with some of the players histories out east intruding themselves into the story and generally making life difficult and bloody for everyone involved.

>Also, bless ClanbookCaitiffAnon because I made a character for another game based on his Hunted Childe template and playing a 4 night old, 8th gen having to learn fast and not get drunk (by her peers or her sire) is a lot of fun.

>https://www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/17400
wtf this is so cursed. Should i try it?

>>96062228
>makes me hope Paradox goes broke.
Unlikely. They're a video game company first after all, selling millions of DLC that milk the one demographic that approaches the subhuman whale behavior of gacha players: 4x autists.

>>96060276 (OP)
Should we bring back the LARP thread?

>>96062284
>I genuinely like 1-5 dot contracts,
My feeling is that that was just too locked into following how they designed powers in Requiem in 1E, even though it didn't really make sense that way. CtL 1E contracts felt forced into the format. They also screwed up by making Pledgecrafting way too easy to powergame.

2E contracts are also highly situational and specific, you just don't need to buy two others to get access to the one you actually want.

Having Regalia as the thematic core of why you have free access to certain contracts, but need special training on others also fits the theme that you're basically a rogue "fairy prince/princess" at the point that you escape.

>>96062229
I think it's something that's alluded to at a few different points, but IIRC the first Mekhet and Nosferatu books touch on it most. Nosferatu especially pushes a Hollow Earth angle where the Nosferatu are all weird Descent-style people that worship monsters deep within the world.

>>96061726
The 2e rulebook has a whole bit about how there are absolutely other Vampires in the world, but they're not "Kindred". There's a blood-jelly thing that I was always intrigued by.

>>96063049
I think they were fun.

>>96061491
Speaking of ignoring the metaplot, what are the actual population ranges for all the supernatural Splats? I know Werewolves/Weresharks are comically few in numbers because of all the genocides they endured, but what about Mariner Gangrel? Or Country Gangrel in general, who don't give a shit about hiding and just hunt

>>96062229
>Anyone got any idea what I may be thinking of?
Maybe the Clan books flesh out the idea. IIRC the Nosferatu had an origin in Greece with some variant rules to represent how they were different back then.

>Hello Fellow Hunters.
>It is time to fight and take back what monsters took from us.
>Quick, take this AR-15 and shoot those wierd kids smooching behind the dumbster
>I swear they are vampires faking it!

What kind of things can a Hunter say in public spaces while hunting the monsters without sounding like a fucking schizo?
I always find this difficult to do.

>>96060742
>Any advice? Anything I should know?
This is a very helpfull image to have for quick info you might need gameplaywise. Other than the other anon said about watching actual plays, this is usefull if you dont have the official ST screen or want this as a back up.

My advice: Print if you cant one the pic related for your players to have a useful quick reference sheet for gameplay.

>>96064750
>anon is playing V20
>gives him an infographic for V5
Anon...

>>96064750
Nobody plays V5.

>>96064648
>Speaking of ignoring the metaplot, what are the actual population ranges for all the supernatural Splats?
Whatever the plot needs it to be. For the most part, there are some rules of thumb like
>No more than 100 vamps per city, this includes Wan Kuei.
>No more than 30 wolves per city
>No more than 5 mages per city
>No Changelings
>Wreaths shouldn't outnumber the living.
>No more than 2 mummies or other exotic immortals.
>Imbued should be limited to 1 or 2 cells city.
>No more than 3 Fallen per city.
This should be enough to avoid most people from going "wait a second..." .

>>96064704
>What kind of things can a Hunter say in public spaces while hunting the monsters without sounding like a fucking schizo?
Just use the colors of actual criminal factions. All of a sudden the killing of a bunch of 8 year olds doesn't look like a schizophrenic attack but a sign of how bad gang violence has become.

>>96064783
>Wreaths shouldn't outnumber the living.
I'm sorry to tell you, but plants outnumber humans anon. I'm sorry you had to find out this way.

>>96064783
>no more than 100 vampires per city
>30 wolves per city
>5 mages per city
>no changelings at all
>only 3 Fallen per city

Anon what the fuck not a single fucking established setting city or source book has numbers that low, Chicago has over 300 Anarchs alone at two separate parts of the story and Demon the Fallen implies that cities are actually chock FULL of Demons now but a lot of them are Legacy 0 and don't actually even know they're Demons but also they tend to congregate together and are probably one of the most focused in one locale splats out there. Changelings are extremely numerous too and have entire wars in the middle of the street or parks it's just normal people and even a lot of supernaturals don't notice because Changelings are extremely subtle and also have the same Demon problem that a lot of them aren't actually aware of their true nature.

>>96064648
As many as you need. Forget number autism.

>>96063049
/Schreck/?

It tends to burn itself out, I've advocated for it being a seasonal general every autumn to prevent that.

>>96064704
Why must you post godawful H5 images to go with this?

>>96064783
>No Changelings
Anon has a chip on his shoulder.
>>96064648
Being completely honest, the population for mages, werebeasts, changelings, wraiths etc. can all be much, MUCH higher than the books get schizo about thanks to one faction: the Technocrats.
Ever read SCP foundation and how they have devices to respawn reality if an apocalypse happens? This is what they were based on. If someone tries to break the illusion of mundanity, these guys have people that can remove all evidence of the disaster with a terraforming device, erase the minds of every civilians, or even go back in time to assassinate the reality deviant responsible before the disaster ever happens.
If anyone wants to do cool things without the technocrats looking over their shoulder, everyone but vampires has full access to the umbra.

>>96064821
>Changelings are extremely subtle
Right... "subtle"...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KL-c-0mE-tg

>>96064837
Listen to this guy Anon. What you need for the story trumps whatever a book or autist will tell you.

>>96064821
Don't forget
>Wraiths shouldn't outnumber the living
For a young, thriving city sure, but an old city with lots of death over the years, or a city in decline with plenty of decaying spaces Wraiths could use as haunts like some postindustrial hellscape in Northern England, Wraiths absolutely could outnumber the living and it would be a miserable experience to live there, just like northern england.

>>96064783
>Wraiths shouldn't outnumber the living.
Anon, this is just straight-up not true. The amount of dead people is estimated to be 100 billion and at least 10% of that had the qualifications to become wraiths(most likely more, because people pre-1950's would have had higher average willpower and died tragically more often).
Wraith out-populating the living is the main reason the dark kingdoms can afford to soul-forge the vast majority of wraiths and still field their massive armies.

>>96064859
>Anon has a chip on his shoulder
Of course I do, it would be weird if I didn't.
>>96064821
>Anon what the fuck not a single fucking established setting city or source book has numbers that low,
They don't but, in my experience, raising the numbers above that tends to lead to more fuckers than it's worth.

>>96064882
Correction: changeling fights are very noticeable, but are indistinguishable from slapfights between larpers to anyone without magic senses. Not even the techies would have bothered to cover this up.

>>96064941
I'm talking about it on a city scale and when other splats are the ones being played. Otherwise necromancers will be able to overpower everyone else.

>>96064859
In all fairness it's hard to account for Changelings. Do you factor in the ones that didn't escape? The ones that did but remained Loyalist? The Privateers? The unaffiliated? Freehold Court members only?

>>96064857
I thought it was Dying Light art desu.

>>96064903
yeah but I am trying to make a book. But you are right, so I'll say fuck it and just go with "life Underwater corresponds with life on Land", just like the Greeks believed.
>>96064859
There aren't 7-9 billion fish people, but they still are enough to be recognised as an actual off-shoot of humanity fully capable of independence...if the ratio of Sentient to Sapient fishmen wasn't 250:1.
>but the Masquerade..
This is the Blue Marble, there's plently of space also just claim its a rare cogenital disease or mutation. Fishmen don't mind being found out, they actually need the help

>>96064993
thats CTL Changelings!
I wasn't talking about that! CtD chagelings are very low in number, they always were. Even before Arcadia's doors were closed. Now they can't even make more changelings, every time one get's soul slayed or cut down by iron, that's a Fey soul gone

>>96065000
How?

>>96064845
Fair enough. It was fun posting through autumn and well into February before it went kaput

>>96065121
Meth induced brain damage

Skimmed the old VTR Chicago book for my idea for Joliet.
Rough idea.
Joliet’s All Night Society was founded by a second-stringer within the Carthian Movement back in the mid-50s.
Wallace, a Mehket, had drifted from one Union to another as a night manager, accumulating authority through 100 slow years of seniority.

Wallace pitched the idea that with the Interstates, Vampires could avoid negotiating with the Werewolf-controlled Union Station and skip driving through the Uratha packs in the south side. He was dispatched with the Nosferatu and leg breaker Kowalski to make a haven in downtown Joliet, away from the Pure packs that control rural Illinois.

With the collapse of industry in the Rust Belt, Wallace and Kowalski began to panic. Union dues were getting harder to skim and they took the executive action of annexing by violence and agreement. The Gangrel pack who were Lockport’s underbelly. Pivoting to extorting the drug trade and using the Gangrel as muscle to expand into rural areas. Trying to claim Joliet City as their hunting ground. The Pure and even the Uratha sneaking down from the suburbs TotM them to shreds and trapped them with the triangle of the interstates.
When the Chicago Carathian Movement was dethroned in 1986, Joliet remained out of reach. A place where the rules of the Loop didn’t apply and a place to take people to embrace.
Of course Wallace has no real organisation support now and the Venture Kilburn now styles himself Master of Joliet.
A member of the Ordo Dracul, Kilburn has a whole series of shady deals with various research labs and occult conspiracies. Providing him with Deviants and Chimera to direct but not control. Weirdly, he sometimes plays up his Irish roots and claims to be Bram Stoker. Embraced for his spurious claims against and by Dracula.

>>96065216
Joliet’s population boom since 2010 has supercharged this fight. Most of the new housing is beyond the Interstates, where Wallace fears to tread. But any Vampire there has to contend with Uratha urban packs and pre-existing Pure.

All tread carefully around the old and the newer prison. Sin-Eaters claim them as their fortresses but must move in groups beyond.

Wallace and Kilburn were never the most organised, otherwise they wouldn’t be in Joliet. Plenty of Hunters call the Joliet Township home and practise their skills on the discarded embraced, lone wolves and horrors which feed on urban vice and midwestern despair.

The abandoned speedway serves as a neutral ground for werewolf packs and occasionally Gangrel. Illegal races are part of that.

>>96062392
>>96062393
>>96062403
Personally forced cross-splat isn't my thing, at least not like that. If your group is cool with it though, that's not an objective issue. Having a fuckload of silver is a good balancing mechanism.

My main concern with your outline is, and perhaps this is just my view of the Sabbat, but I do not actually like their chances. PvP with another pack followed by Werewolf attacks followed by an Earthbound? In my admittedly limited experience, Sabbat PCs tend to be far less cautious and more prone to doing dumb things. I think it's ultimately a question of how your group operates more than anything objective.

Also, and this may go without saying, but while outlines are nice there's always a chance that they'll pull something you weren't expecting and you'll essentially have to start rewriting from the second line as now every agent is working with very different material circumstances, which reasonably changes their course of action.

>>96064774
>>96064777
Oh fuck, my bad.
Still would argue that it still works as a reminder of basic mechanics on how dies work for the game and the such. I've never played V20 but i belive that some info from here can be use as a reminder of the most basic stuff.
If not, sorry i had a brainfart.

>>96065344
Thanks anon, Most of my players know I tend to include elements of other splats. My regular chronicle uses Wraith/Orpheus heavily for instance (the big bad is a Harbringer of Skulls in that game) and one PC got herself tangled up with the Fae.
With this game though, Wild West kind of lends itself to Werewolf stuff. I might ditch the Earthbound though, thanks Anon.
I'm fine with adlibbing and rewriting it as we go, I tend to come up with outlines and sets of NPCs for shorter chronicles like this one just so I have a coherent idea of who is involved and the direction things are going. But yes, I fully expect one or two of these players to throw a wrench into my plans.
Taking it back to first principles,
>Existing pack has been trying to extract something from the mines beyond silver
>Local garou are alerted to whatever it is and try to stop it
>surprise twist of what the thing in the mines actually is

Something about it just feels a little too generic and not Sabbat enough for me that's my problem with it. I can't put my finger on what to change though.
And yes, I'll drop storytimes from the game here so people can see how the trainwreck goes.

>>96065200
Can relate to that

>>96060557
cooking up a reincarnation ritual shouldn't even be that hard considering Thaumaturgy is based on Hermetic magic and they believe in reincarnation already

actually considering how a vampire is dead wouldn't that mean their soul has already moved on?

>>96066045
no diablery devours the vampires soul which is now stored in the heartblood, demon pacts also write out what the soul in vtm is mechanicly (your potential humanity/road maximum), vampires can become wraiths and one necromancy path which seperates the soul from body and even lists which disciplines are soul related (auspex etc) and which ones are body (protean, potence etc) in case the necromancy puts the vampire in another vampire's body

>>96066045
Partially. Some of their soul, like the avatar, does move on to reincarnate. Some stays behind and becomes permanently altered by the curse of caine(which is why vamps can make demon deals, why vampires can become wraiths, why eating a vampire's soul gives you diablerie effects, etc)

>>96066045
They're only mostly dead.

>>96066045
Vampires are undead. They still have their soul.

>>96065589
>Something about it just feels a little too generic and not Sabbat enough for me that's my problem with it.

Well, what makes something "Sabbat" in your estimation? Is it the emphasis on Inhumanity and whether or not that's a cope or if there's something to it , the looming threat of gehenna, the "fuck you I've got mine" freedom?

>>96064960
>Not even the techies would have bothered to cover this up.
The entire splat explained.

>>96066300
I think the Wild West gives enough of the "fuck you, got mine" freedom without needing much help but a The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly style situation comes to mind.
I think you hit the nail on the head with Inhumanity, nothing about this story couldn't be played with some Humanity 5 Camarilla characters and that's what's been needling in the back of my head.
I think it also needs more of the sado-religious elements and rituals which can tie back into both freedom (RE, a game of Mob Football played with a head) and inhumanity (the classic blood feast or hunting rituals).

>>96066413
Well if there's another pack already there they'll probably be beefing with, you could use them as the "intro to inhumanity". Convey to your players what speed your typical pack is on and see how they react to it.

>>96060791
>>96061491
Alright, thanks for the advice!

>>96064750
I found quick references for V20, will print them and hand them to my players when we meet up for session zero.

>>96060527
>Is metaknowledge enough to overcome all the issues dragging the setting towards self-destruction
I would volunteer myself to be the vampire who become a human again in "The Red Sign" adventure book.
But at same time, if we are talking about Metaplot progression, I would just go as my average life because we unfortunatly got 5th edition and just like Chicago by Night V5 said: "It was a crazy time".

Games where you can play as a 1,000 year old loli baba

>VtM
Yes

>WtA
No

>MtA
Yes

>WtO
Yes

>CtD
Yes

It's clear which is the WORST WoD game.

>>96060527
Party like its 1999 and make sure to tell everyone, all the time, all the nitty-gritty secrets about what has happened and what will happen. Just a Malk acting like a Malk. Maybe I make it, maybe I don't

>>96067122

>>96067122
>WtA
>No
Someone hasn't seen the immortality gifts and rites.

For HtV, I can't find it in the rules but it says that Ghosts can be allowed to pass on by fulfilling whatever criteria they need. Is this just up to the GM to allocate? "Yes they're happy now, they pass on"?

>>96067122
>>mta
>yes
only if they are in their magical realm otherwise they get 'doxed out of existence

>>96067255
Yes, its up to the ST

>>96060276 (OP)
My Horror mystery got derailed after on the road I described a Bigfoot sighting Kiosk, it's a hollow chested wood carved ape man that you write down experiences and any photos into
>It's part of a old tourist trap near my home
Now they are hunting Bigfoot

>>96067484
>Now they are hunting Bigfoot
Some random yeren is going to jumped and never figure out why.

>>96067461
Good, the rules for the Ephemeral entites are so weird and convoluted that I wasn't sure if I was overlooking something.
I've got a rank 2 Ghost, Hannah Mason, who was killed by a Slasher. Whenever her killer strikes again, she manifests in the house that she died in and tries to fight against her attacker. She must respond to the crying of an Infant (she died trying to protect her baby), and cannot penetrate a binbag (her body is in several different bin bags in the dump, the Slasher's lair). She can pass on if her killer is slain, or if her body is found and buried.

She's meant to serve as the impetus for the group forming, and to segue into a Slasher campaign, but I was concerned about having a Slasher attack against the PCs as the inciting incident for the Cell forming because most Slashers don't appear inherently supernatural, so why should a group of civillians form an illegal vigilante group to fight "some random serial killers". The Ghost should hopefully work better as a threat and introduction.

>>96067507
>Local Yeren just wants his shekels but is gonna lose a leg now.

>>96060742
>>96066687
Have fun, tweak the system/rules to fit your group, don't be afraid to be campy but also don't hesitate to drop the boot if needed

I don't understand why the entirety of the Sabbat doesn't have Black Hand Membership. If they all had two dots in Black Hand Membership, any single vampire could call upon two more members, who could each call upon two more members, who could each call upon two more members, and so on. Using this, the Sabbat would be able to call upon enough members to solve any problem anywhere in the world, they could basically crush the Camarilla effortlessly. Are they all just fucking stupid or something?

>>96067740
You ever tried organizing friends-of-friend for ttrpg sessions anon? The amount of time trying to get this many conflicting schedules to align, only for random BH members to cancel last minute and force everyone to reschedule...
You'll be leading the suicide charge into the camarilla headquarters Yourself just to escape the clusterfuck.

>>96067810
The rules say nothing about that. There are no rules saying that there is any difficulty organising the Black Hand. You may call upon Black Hand members, and they help you. Simple as that.

>>96067825
You do know this is a storyteller game right? The ST controls the NPCs and can fuck with you however much they want.

>>96067740
>>96067825
...if we are trolling here.
You see, that would cause Elders to activate their trap cards, Powerful Childe and Mummy Companion merits. Who, in turn, could also have Powerful Childe and Mummy Companion Merits.
And since Sabbat has a lower Elder count than Camarilla, inevitably there will be more Princes and Mummies in the Camarilla side than Sabbat has Showelheads.
Checkmate atheists.

>>96067873
Why play a game if you're not following the rules? The rules say that Black Hand Membership allows a character to call upon other members of the Black Hand to help them. Anything outside of that happening as a consequence of that is stupid.

Anons brought something up in a different thread: How hard would it be for garou to summon enough wylding passions, and convince them to possess things, to build nereid breeding farms? It honestly seems like an easy solution to a lot of their problems.

>>96067963
>implying that nereids would remain wyld-aligned and not end up corrupted by the weaver or the wyrm if you factory farm them
>implying that nereid kids would immediately help out werewolves with their problems
>implying that the army of nereid kids wouldn't be just as much of a problem if they magically solve the wyrm and weaver issues

>>96067963
That sounds like it would lead to a Wyld Corruption appearing and spreading rapidly. Not much better than Wyrm corruption.

>>96067963
>I have a rat problem in my house, so I bred a swarm of snakes and unleashed them in my house to deal with the rat problem.
This won't backfire at all.

If mortal alphabet agents are feds, are archons and inquisitors bleds?

>>96067994
>>96068026
>>96068045
>Anons all worried about wyrm corruption
>Completely ignore that wyld corruption is potentially much, MUCH worse.

>>96067963
Previous anons are retarded, the real issue is that this is basically guaranteed to turn the caern they do it into a wyld threshold and unleash unimaginable horrors onto the world.
Werewolf fans consistently forget this, but The Wyld IS Not Good.

>>96067904
>>96067740
Why does Vampire the Masquerade have such loose, retarded and poorly defined rules?

>>96068274
Most people still default to Do Evil=Wyrm even though the WtA repeatedly point out that this is a retarded mindset that will get you killed. Unfortunately, STs are also retarded and tend to encourage this.

>>96068342
>Most people still default to Do Evil=Wyrm even though the WtA repeatedly point out that this is a retarded mindset that will get you killed
The problem is that we don't get to see that backfire often enough to internalize it. That and spirit taxonomy mostly paints the Wyrm just evil with no real nuance unless you reach for the DEEP LORE like the Emptiness at the end of the spiral being like Buddhist enlightenment.

>>96068439
WtA desperately needs more content centered on the wyld, weaver, and balance wyrm spirits.

What I'm getting from this is that /wodg/ has a hard time comprehending the concept of secondary antagonists.

>>96068717
People are stupid news at 11.

God is directly responsible for more ToJ scenarios than any other being in the setting.

>>96068763
Given he is the god of good and evil did you expect something else?

>>96068763
>time of judgment
>big G decides it's time to judge people
yeah, not really a surprise

>>96064648
>Speaking of ignoring the metaplot, what are the actual population ranges for all the supernatural Splats? I know Werewolves/Weresharks are comically few in numbers because of all the genocides they endured, but what about Mariner Gangrel? Or Country Gangrel in general, who don't give a shit about hiding and just hunt
Vampire's cap as of the whole overpopulation crisis was still about 40,000, with most of that in Camarilla/omnisectarian clans and rabble and only 2,000 in special snowflakes.

I would be very surprised if there'd be more than two dozen of mariners extant, but Gangrel as a whole are probably the third most populous clan after Brujah and (mostly theirs) thinblood caitiff. Fourth are probably Toreador, then Nosferatu, Ventrue, Malkavian and Tremere (who suffered a blow to their numbers due to metaplot shenanigans, so they're last of the seven now, but feel free to ignore that).

Then Tzimisce and Lasombra, who are only at about a third of one of the seven at best, comparatively speaking, and with massive attrition, but also high replacement ratio thanks to mass embraces and rampant diablerie.

>>96069016
>Tremere
>who suffered a blow to their numbers due to metaplot shenanigans, so they're last of the seven now
What was the point of fucking the Vienna Chantry anyway?

>>96069072
>What was the point of fucking the Vienna Chantry anyway?
The writers were trying to reinforce the rarity of Thaumaturge vampires while hyping up the Second Inquisition, either that or I am mixing V5 and ToJ plot lines.

>>96069072
Tremere were the designated punching bag of Vampire since the tail end of original run, and the Council was the biggest thing in the way of any large enough shitstorm, what's with each of them being able to curse entire clans pretty much at will and Vienna being completely unassailable.

I disagree with >>96069085 about rarity, though, every mongrel has blood magic now. It just sucks.

>>96069124
>I disagree with >>96069085 (You) about rarity, though, every mongrel has blood magic now. It just sucks.
I meant in the sense that is the explanation of why the Paths aren't a thing anymore.

>>96069085
>reinforce the rarity of Thaumaturge vampires while hyping up the Second Inquisition, either that or I am mixing V5 and ToJ plot lines.
The relevant changes are that Muslim! People of Color! Assassins! are one of the main clans now and muscled Tremere (old-fashioned patriarchy reeee) and Gangrel (norse nazi reeee) out of their niches in the Camarilla; Tremere are deep in shit where they belong; Karna, previously something of a village idiot among Tremere, is someone leading an entire sect branch of a clan now.
And yeah, all of this is something some tard of a writer started way back in late Revised, to great dissatisfaction of many a fan (even Assamite fans didn't like bowing to the Camarilla or Ur-Shulgi summarily murdering most of their methuselah and elders).

>>96067122
>>96067233

Specifically, Mokole can go through long stretches of time not aging via magic sleep, and de-age themselves by removing and replacing their oldest bones. The latter can get pretty expensive because it involves giving up permanent Gnosis dots.

Nagah technically have an anti-aging Gift, but its system prevents it from being a practical way to indefinitely avoid aging, much less regaining youth.

Rokea flat out don't age (no powers required), but they settle in full physical maturity, so they typically look like they're somewhere between 20 and 40.

I got banned from the White Wolf subreddit for making a Pinkertons joke.

>>96069415
>subreddit

>>96069404
>so they typically look like they're somewhere between 20 and 40
That's not completely true, Since the rokea straight-up stopped mating with humans when the neanderthals went extinct(and somehow not losing changing breed status? WTF?), so their humanoid forms all look somewhere between frankenstein's monster and half-melted troll-doll. I doubt you'd be able to tell what age they are(or even their race or gender) like pic related.

>>96067122
>>96069404
>Games where you can play as a 1,000 year old loli baba
Not sure what exactly those last words mean, but Sorcerers, Wan Kuei (Asian revenants in the classic, non-WoD sense) Werefoxes (assuming fast ranking up) and Shih (Asian hunters) with the right powers and circumstances totally can be both young-looking and 1,000 years old.
Rokea and Mokole can live pretty much borderline forever, but they don't look young, yeah.

>>96069438
>but they don't look young
Depends. You can absolutely have a lolibaba of either. The lung mokole are even obligated to function on anime logic.

>>96069434
>the neanderthals went extinct(and somehow not losing changing breed status? WTF?)
A rite that allows you to choose the second shifting species exist, Mokole made use of it. But yeah,
>so their humanoid forms all look somewhere between frankenstein's monster and half-melted troll-doll
most Rokea in homid don't look pretty.

>>96069461
>A rite that allows you to choose the second shifting species exist
Here's the thing, they didn't use it.
They actually refused to mate with homo sapience at all, meaning by the same logic behind the apis dying out despite having a surviving member, or the red talons and the glasswalkers are having fertility issues, the rokea should be exinct.

>>96069434
Pic not really related because Rokea can literally will themselves to look better when on land. The diehard anti-Betweeners just typically don't.

>>96069455
Middle Dragons have an illusionary appearance Gift that plays into that but it is an illusion.

>>96069473
Rokea have plenty of sharks to mate with, they don't need humans.
In most cases mating with animals is way more expedient than mating with humans.

Hence the unofficial tagline of "fuck that wolf or Gaia will DIIIIE".

>>96069473
Changers only go extinct if the non-human part does. Losing the human part just takes away Homid and whatever they call Near-Human, if they have it.

>>96069492
That wasn't even an unofficial tagline, that was just Geoff Grabowski shitposting in an early pre-release Lunars Q&A thread.

Did anyone ever get that new STV changeling book?

>>96069500
>Changers only go extinct if the non-human part does.
Even that is not given; Hakken and some other type no longer have animal they're change into around, and some retreated into umbra where there's no humans (at least, non-mage humans) either.

>>96069506
Do you know the meaning of 'unofficial'?

Also, shitposting about homids fucking wolves had been going on on BBS waaay before Grabski joined.

>>96069516
STV books usually only get shared a long time after their release. X5 shit is the exception.

>>96069517
Hakken were retconned into having secret wolf packs around in Hokkaido. Also, wolves still exist somewhere on Earth, so there's that.

>>96069532
The numbers just aren't there, anon. There are at least seven times as many homid as lupus, and generally so few wolves that lupus can just keep to themselves.

Though, the Exalted thread in question was also about beastfolk in early Exalted, which is not how Garou approach things unless they're BSDs.

>>96066581
I think my players will get into the vibes and they're really excited to be monsters, but yes, flayed corpses hanging in the icebox as spare blood bags, sipping blood-rich marrow from a bone like a cocktail, a fleshcrafted ghoul the Tzimisce insists is named Igor, a lasso made from thorny intestines, etc. Yeah I can definitely work with this idea, cheers Anon you've been a great help.

>>96069500
>Changers only go extinct if the non-human part does.
The red talon lore disagrees. They're literally an the verge of being unable to produce changers because they lack homid blood in their gene-pool.

>>96069500
>>96069517
>Changers only go extinct if the non-human part does.
Bunyip arrived on oostraya, found that there's no dogs to fuck, and started fucking marsupials (Mokole done magic at their request to make that work).
And were exterminated by other Garou cause fucking canids is fine, but fucking thylacines is what they draw a line on.

>>96069415
LOL what was the joke?

>>96069582
"I don't trust anyone who worked at WotC. Now gotta brace for them sending the Pinkertons after me for trash talking the fifth edition of both games."

>>96069565
Well that's not how the rest of the lore works, anon. The Mokole and Rokea stand as representative of this, and also to some extent the Ratkin.

>>96069546
>The numbers just aren't there, anon. There are at least seven times as many homid as lupus
You're looking at the wrong numbers.
The thing about lupus is that there's a lot of cubs in the litter, they grow up very fast and don't need a house and care, they don't throw silly tantrums and don't chafe against orders and customs (same generally goes for lupus mates, too). And they're in general more predisposed to Werewolf side of things than humans, which tracks with higher Gnosis, too.

By mating with lupus you have dozens of full fledged, competent werewolves in time it takes for a human to grow up to first change, which he'd probably wouldn't even undergo and remain the kinfolk.

In all out, strategic combat campaign a Sept breeding with lupus, then teaching them what they need to know about the human side of things will always outnumber and overpower a Sept that breeds exclusively with humans; the problem of Red Talons and certain Furies is that they are raging retards that reject all things man.

>>96069666
No, anon, if it's something that came up in CoG Revised, I don't know if it's a good idea to entertain it. It's just that simple.

(Also, wolves don't need a house, but they need an area about a hundred or more times greater to roam around in, so... WTF are you thinking about trying to make this sound simple, exactly?)

>>96069666
Werewolves are shit at planning ahead. News at 11.

>>96069565
>>96069625
So the lore is inconsistant and contradicts itself?
In other news, water makes things wet.

>>96069666
If we actually followed proper numbers, the Ananasi would outnumber humanity by at least 37-to-1. WtA writers and math just don't mix very well.

>>96069696
>but they need an area about a hundred or more times greater to roam around in
Not really a limitation. The garou have the ability to make umbral realms of wilderness that'll keep a healthy population of thousands.
They're also welcome in dreamspeaker horizon realms just like so many other bygons and wildlife. They could have a population in the Billions if they just got their heads out of their asses.

>>96069777
Maybe they just have secrets. Natural spiders are universally cannibalistic.

>>96069842
The 37-to-1 is already accounting for that. Removing the cannibalism would make it 37,000-to-1

>>96069777
Checked.

>>96069863
There has to be a typo or something.

>>96069863
Oh, it flatly says they eat eachother like that? I thought it would be more coy, like the entry speculating about why they don't have packs.

>>96069881
>>96069777
Naa, White Wolf/Onyx Path writers are generally terrible with numbers. Populations especially. Rationally vampires, while definitely the most common threat a hunter has to face due to all of them being blood drinkers (as opposed one in a thousand fairy or wizard that is an irredeemable monster), cannot be anywhere near most numerous cause they feed on people and are massively territorial cunts, even those of them willing to slum it with the rabble.

And then you have sourcebooks putting an ungodly amount of vampires in one city when the licks could barely coexist having a borough to themselves each without being fully blood bound to the cause (and still murdering each other regularly).

New Orleans in NWoD was said to have 0.5% in the know and that included the lesser templates, making actual supernaturals a quarter of that.
That’s still about 1 supernatural template per 800 people or so.
0.0125%
It’s ridiculously huge as a number for anything after the Middle Ages.

>>96069881
Anon, there are quintillions-to-sextillions of spiders on earth, and spiders actually do very well in cities because human trash lets insects reproduce like crazy
>If you straight-apply the 1/100,000 number to them(which itself assumes a tiny number of kinfolk among the total spider population), there would be millions of times earths population in ananasi.
>Spider born ananasi need to earth a humans worth of mass in spiders and insects to achieve first change. Depending on species, this would take eating 5-9 million of their own kind or a couple thousand.
>Ananasi can individually mate thousands-to-millions of times at once in crawlerling form. Even assuming normal one roll breed-true per ananasi, that still potentially hundreds of millions of kinfolk spiders, each with a 1% chance of breeding true when they mate in 2 weeks.
Assuming most crawler-born ananasi are exclusively cannibalistic on a steady diet of kinfolk and other true-crawlers until first change, you'd get roughly 37 times the earths human population. Assuming they eat mostly non-kinfolk and all ananasi only have 1,000 crawlerlings in their form, then it'll be 37,000.
Realistically, this is the worst case scenario trying its damnest to pretend there aren't a quadrillion goth spider chicks in the umbra.

>>96069970
>>96069984
I'm very much against the per capita approach, not only cause it falls apart historically, but also cause making characters into average tenants makes the whole story duller.
Every vampire player should have a domain and a personal political agenda, or actively try to carve out one ASAP anyways, the coterie shouldn't be a bunch of hapless schmucks, that's what ghouls and hunters are for.

>>96070020
>trying its damnest to pretend there aren't a quadrillion goth spider chicks in the umbra
I embrace the space empire of big titty goths GFs

>>96070038
No, don't, anon, they will eat you!

Not in a fun way either!

>>96070020
>Realistically, this is the worst case scenario trying its damnest to pretend there aren't a quadrillion goth spider chicks in the umbra.

>>96069765
No, I'm saying that either the Red Talon book is being melodramatic due to a case of an author on board or somehow the Garou work slightly differently. I'm inclined to go with the former, because the real problem that the Red Talons have is that they're dedicated to a spiritual listening space that is extremely rarefied and completely contained within a notably endangered species as a fraction of the tiny bit of wolves who become Garou (!200k-ish with extreme infant mortality.)

>>96069777
Still better than Mage! Kind of a short bar to step over, really, but it is what it is.

>>96069792
They do not have the capacity to freely do this, because most territory has been claimed by someone or something else.

>>96070020
I'd assume that Crawlerling puts the Ananasi in a headspace where they're about as interested in mating as someone in Crinos, and they it exists to consume and assimilate instead of reproduce on account of how the Ananasi are birthed not of a plain old spider but Ananasa, who is the backup failsafe of the Weaver.

>>96070038
I mean, they can't all be big titty. Big tits only come about if they've been... eating well.

>>96070020
I can understand writers fucking up, but how did the WtA writers forget basic shit like "there are way more spiders than people" or "spiders mature and reproduce within weeks" or "giving your supposedly endangered changer the ability to have billions of babies at once could make them less endangered very quickly"?

>>96070107
>I'd assume that Crawlerling puts the Ananasi in a headspace where they're about as interested in mating as someone in Crinos
Book says there are crawler-born ananasi. There's just no good way to unfuck this anon. The writer was a retard and you'd need to redesign the ananasi from the ground up to fill these galactic plot-holes.

>>96070107
>I mean, they can't all be big titty. Big tits only come about if they've been... eating well.
Ve Vill Feed Ze Wyrm To Ze Armies of Spidergirls If Ve Have To! I Vill Have My Big Titty Goth Girl!

>>96070020
Fuck the black spiral dancers, the hengeyokai book had the right idea making the spiders the go-to enemy faction. This is fucking terrifying.

>>96070115
Aside from simulationist numbers, they also have to present Ananasi as not being so commonplace that they vastly outnumber everything. At best, it'd be a 2:1 re: the Garou, which can be framed as less outrageous on account of

1 - the Ananasi kill each other constantly. They're all deep cover agents for the Triat, and some of them either reason that they have to look loyal or have gone over to the other side and are trying not to look it to the other spiders. It's all Knives Out all the time; the only real time they universally cooperate is if an outsider is butting in.

2 - Supercannibalism. Maintaining Crawlerling is rather numbers intensive; a conservative estimate from Hengeyokai in the Kumo section is that it's 200 spiders per dot of Strength. These all come from spiders that the Ananasi has consumed. They can also consume spiders to regenerate, via a Gift. All this use of Arachnid Resources puts a damper on potential Ananasi.

3 - members of the Triat kill Ananasi frequently. The ideal is that they're super slick behind the scenes operators dealing with the triunes of reality, but this can always go sideways in the worst way, and there's no better way than when a Skein-Spider ends up cornered by a Vortex, a Kumoti gets a First Team on their tail (complete with balefire flamethrowers), or Hatar get on the bad side of Ovid by being callous assholes, because you can't usually tell the difference between someone that's pretending and someone that is.

That's on top of how some of them straight-up go mad, or end up angering Ananasa, or just end up dying of old age and not getting approved for brain-eating doppleganger escapes by Ananasa. The world is not safe, and the spiders cannot reduce risk to 0.

>>96070107
>Still better than Mage! Kind of a short bar to step over, really, but it is what it is.
How is it better than mage? Mage mostly had the reverse issue that initial ratio was too low for most wizard clubs to even exist, much less function; and the second 1/150k ratio had to be broken immediately cause city book writers could not work with anything less than 1/75k.
But even so wizard factions being made of one, one and half wizards is not as wack as the werespider hordes, and somewhat tracks with unwarranted sense of self-importance most traditions and crafts exhibit.

>>96070172
Anon, I don't think you're really comprehending how big a number quintillion is, let alone sextillion.
Ever heard the saying "a million seconds is 11 days, a billion seconds is 31 years"?
A quintillion is a billion squared. The 37:1 scenarios would have zero problems with any of the issues listed, there are just that many spiders in general.

>>96070107
>Big tits only come about if they've been... eating well.
Their natural state is petite, that's where the essence collects as they go through sisters.

>>96070204
>I don't think you're really comprehending how big a number quintillion is
This is genuinely impossible. Scientists have testing how much "ram" human comprehension has and quintillion is waaaaaaay outside it. It's long since crossed the threshold from "meaningfully impressive" to "funny number go up".

>>96070219
>Scientists have testing
*tested

>>96070171
Imagine being a hengeyokai. One night you step on a spider and piss off its entire family, leading to your entire sept being fucked.

>>96070199
Have you looked at the systems? Brucato is self-admittedly terrible with numbers and probability.

Also, they're fuckups for not doing better with Special K Magick.

>>96070204
To be fair, the W20 entry does bring that up as a potentially horrifying surprise! It's on page 59.

(Maintaining the Atahsaia might be a big drain on their numbers, incidentally. Apocalypse featured a bunch of huge spider kaijuu born from Ananasi/Ananasi pairings that were preserved in amber until needed.)

>>96070228
If werespiders cared about their families, they wouldn't have been eating them by bucketfuls.

>>96070228
Don't forget that the kumo(evil ananasi) are also commonly fomori on top of being the world's most fertile fera.
No wonder the beast courts figured out how to work together, it was the only way they could survive!

>>96070233
Honestly, the cannibalism might be a feature. It's the only thing preventing them from spreading so fast that they consume all life, tyranid style.

>>96070233
Truth.

More math: the largest spider weighs 176 grams. Crawlerling gives you spiders sufficient to equal your Homid body weight. That means Crawlerling can be ~500 or more goliath bird-eaters or substantially larger numbers of smaller spiders. Black widows are only about one gram, incidentally, so you can have 176 of them for every goliath birdeater you give up.

>>96070244
They would be more fertile if their Lillian-born were fertile. And didn't eat their mothers at birth.

>>96070257
>Ananasi: The only faction where baby eating is both ethical and mandatory

>>96070232
Played them even. They're honestly not as terrible once you file the burr off, but yeah, most rules introduced by Brucato and Heining and whorever added crossover butthurt nonsense in M20 are pointless, unnecessary crap.

>>96070261
Do you have any idea just how dead most creatures would be if they were bitten by that many spiders?

>>96070331
Weigh more dead than the rules seem to think, that's for sure.

>>96070340
Weigh... weigh... weigh. Way. I think that's enough internet for tonight.

>>96070340
I get that venom is a bitch to balance but still, at least have a variant rule or power to reflect that shit.

>>96070341
good night.

>>96069229
To me, the Assamites have slowly gone from "that clan I forget exists half of the time" to "that clan I really can't stand to the point I'll make heavy rewrites to them".

>>96068342
What do good Wyrm-aligned entities look and act like?

>>96069415
Don't leave us hanging like that anon. What did you say? I know Hasbro sent the Pinkerton's to rough up some mtg dudes for not being completely tourney legal

>>96070421
Psychopomps, spirits of natural decay and decomposition, Euthanatos mages and their familiars... I guess?

>>96069415
And you should be banned from here for admitting to using leddit.

>>96070362
>To me, the Assamites have slowly gone from "that clan I forget exists half of the time" to "that clan I really can't stand to the point I'll make heavy rewrites to them"
Week of Nightmares sets a precedent for just nuking lesser clans, if you really don't like them.
DESU I haven't met a tolerable Assamite player in about two decades, so it wouldn't be that big of a loss.

>>96070434

>>96069605

>>96070467
If I ever go to a LARP event, I should go as an Assamite and just spout off mashallahs and inshallahs and recite the Shahada while pointing up whenever someone takes a picture

>>96069605
Kek

>>96070483
>If I ever go to a LARP event, I should go as an Assamite and just spout off mashallahs and inshallahs and recite the Shahada while pointing up whenever someone takes a picture
Best way to play one!

>>96070483
Go as a sorcerer and act permanently butthurt about the Tremere.

>>96070483
Bit of a pity that Assamites are a bit too stuck up to play a Sufi or Mullah Nasruddin-like character, but going all in religious piousness with a veneer of violence or contrition is really much better than edgy powergamer or chronically triggered LGBTI(slamic) activist which make up most of their ranks nowadays.

I'm playing an Ecstatic mage.
Give me in-game reasons to have orgies with the rest of the cabal

>>96070557
Is your cabal full of hot girls?
Or at least full of people willing to turn into hot girls?

>>96070563
>Is your cabal full of hot girls?
Yes.
And I'm one.

>>96070557
>playing an Ecstatic mage.
>Give me in-game reason
When ever an Ecstatic player needed a reason to fuck or get fucked by anything?
Half the time the challenge is to drag them away so they can be useful for once in their wretched existence of unrestrained hedonism, and the other half you're trying to prevent them from fucking a nexus crawler, an elder Euthanatos or something equally disgusting.

>>96070567
No more reason is needed.

>>96070582
>>96070593
What I mean is: help me come up with ideas for rituals or effects, ways to involve them in sex magick, grimoires, etc. Basically I want to give them something to benefit from for putting effort into erping.

>>96070612
What traditions are the other players?

>>96070612
What spheres do you have to work with?
Stuff that makes sense for Orgy after-effects to me would be Mind-related stuff like post-nut clarity, establishing an empathetic bond between participants, that sort of stuff.

>>96070618
Euthanatos, Son of Ether, Verbena, Order of Hermes and Celestial Chorus (not a christian/jewish puritan).
>>96070622
Mind, Time, Forces and Prime.

>>96070632
Verbena should be pro-orgy anyway.
Etherite is probably a virgin and needs no excuse.
Hermetic may be a virgin and need no excuse.

>>96070467
Well I'm not a big fan of TWON for reasons unrelated to the deletion of the Ravnos. It's not like I need a precedent to rewrite things, my group doesn't have any weird metaplot/setting purists in it. I suppose my frustrating with the Ass Mites is because whenever they are present, they try to elevate them to a prominence their concept can't support, and rather than try to flesh out the assassin angle, they tried to flesh out the middle eastern angle. Which is to the detriment of the entire middle east.

>>96070669
>try to flesh out the assassin angle, they tried to flesh out the middle eastern angle
Middle eastern angle is fine, even if it shouldn't have been a clan.
Assassin angle shouldn't even be a thing. The only reason Assamites exist in this capacity to begin with is because an idiot wrote them in without stopping for a second to think why would any vampire trust them, or even suffer their existence in their demesne, and how assassins really work IRL, they're either the loyal agent arm serving the power and cause that employs them, or catspaws that are disposed of after, not belong to a treacherous, prideful, independent power whose services are freely sold to anyone.
And that's without getting into that whole "demand blood as/alongside payment" thing.

>Decided to see what GtSE is about
>The Bound are just shittier and severely limited Ascension Mages

>>96070757
>are just shittier and severely limited Ascension Mages
Heard that statement about Fallen, too.

>>96070736
The Banu Haqim fix is quite simple, actually.
>Assassin’s Creed+Blade: The Clan

>>96070778
Blade is a Brujah. With less understanding of politics and philosophy, granted, but then again, education wasn't a priority of Brujah in the modern nights.

And that aside, aesthetics don't answer the question why there needs to be a clan that no other clan would suffer having around out of security reasons alone, to do something their own retainers could while being less of a liability.

>>96070736
Oh sure, the Assamites as written suck as assassins, but that's salvageable. If you want to keep the hatred of their fellow vampire present, you have to hide it better to be sure, but if they're good enough at their job, there's a niche for contract killers. They can do what your in-house guy can't, and it'll be harder to trace back to you. Or you could take the other end and make their hatred of their fellow vampire more prominent, leaving them almost outside of the jyhad. This would require player characters to be outcasts, renegades, or spies but that's already true for other clans such as setites.

The "they're the middle eastern (muslim) vampires" angle is not only mind-numbingly boring, but it also spreads to the rest of the VtM middle east, a land that is hardly a monolith culturally or politically even post-Islam, being dominated by the Ashirra, which is such a non-sect whose existence removes fun plots from going on in the area. I LOVE Ur-Shulgi despite my broad dislike of his clan specifically because it's one of the only times the writers remembered in a game about immortals, pre-islam vampires should exist and have opinions on the matter.

I would gladly take a clan of hostile diablerists you can't play as normally over the abominations that is the three clans in an overcoat Revised era assamites.

>>96070822
Nothing salvageable about that specific aspect of them for all reasons I outlined in the previous post.
>of his clan specifically because it's one of the only times the writers remembered in a game about immortals, pre-islam vampires should exist and have opinions on the matter.
Assamites are absolutely the last clan to raise such themes with since IRL Haqim from the organisation their clan's based on lived in 12th century. And any foundation for their existence is about that old. Making them an 'old' clan tracing to Caine was a mistake.
>I would gladly take a clan of hostile diablerists you can't play as normally over the abominations that is the three clans in an overcoat Revised era assamites.
What's the point of having them around at all then? Unplayable hostile diablerist gangs are dime a dozen. Doesn't need to be a clan.

>>96070903
>Doesn't need to be a clan
Okay. Still is one, and is going to continue to be one in future editions.

>>96070903
I disagree with your reasoning. There can be reasons to have an assassin that isn't an immediate member of your hierarchy or a dupe, contract killers are a real thing. Especially when one factors in the existence of the supernatural, there could be things that call for an Assamite. If you just take them out of the box obviously there's issues with this, but the entire premise of this is based around rewriting them and finding what is salvageable.

As for their existence as hostile diablerists being preferable, I think there's something potentially interesting in a clan of vampires that hates (other) vampires and wants them to die. As I said earlier, you can't really play as a Setite in most games without being a renegade, outcast, or spy. Not to mention the uncountable special bloodlines that could only see play with a very permissive ST or a very well crafted backstory. Actually I think that's the big problem with the four indie clans. Because they're clans, people get the notion they should be equally playable as Cam 7 or Sabbat 2. Enemies matter as much as players in crafting a game, and the Assamite niche of preternatural poison and being defined by blood not allegiance makes them different from roving Sabbat bands.

Personally I'd rather further divorce them from the bad Hassan-I-Sabbah expies they started out as rather than turn them into a bloodline of vampire Hassan-I-Sabbahs. I wouldn't even be against bloodlining their ass but that's too wild a rewrite for some.

>>96060742
One of you guys should secretly be Hitler or one of the future Nazi high command

>>96070956
And like I said, I find that entire specific part to be the one entirely unsalvageable for reasons stated above, because nobody would need or suffer an assassin entitled to murder them on a dime, an assassin that's neither beholden to them, nor is disposable as necessary, but has an entire independent, arrogant and belligerent power backing them. At least, outside of their native region and era which lasted less than two centuries before someone unwilling to tolerate that bullshit came and put an end to them, not that towers haven't been built with assassin's skulls by targets who had competent security well before that.

Ultimately, as a murderer the clan they are entirely detrimental and redundant, a role that attracts shitty players like shit attracts flies, a role that has no shortage of representation among the core clans already. And if you take from them their Muslim culture - why would they even need to exist?
They can exist as vampire Muslims. They can exist as hateful isolationists, without religion, if you're so opposed to it - but we have plenty of those.
They can exist as a mortal Muslim hunter organisation hateful and dedicated to extermination of vampires, even, and likely fit much better than any sort of vampire take.

>>96068844
>Scenario: Wyrmwood
>Has nothing to do with the Wyrm
Wtf?

>>96071245
Wrong book, go read Apocalypse.

>Scenario: Wyrmwood
Baffles me though that the only scenario where nothing interesting happens and where God acts as a power-tripping DM (and vice versa) locking you in a box and telling you to think on your behaviour is the only well-written of the four.

>>96071391
Honestly, Wyrmwood is my favorite because it fits many, many different chronicles.
I ran it with my Transylvania Chronicles Elders group. I ran it with my Ancilla group and I even once used it after I ran Crucible of God

fomori gargoyles a good idea y/n?

>>96071642
Aren't all fomori vampires automatically wights?

>>96070115
The ratkin is similar

>>96071654
they're draugr, which is different i think

>>96071642
>>96071654
>>96071717
Vampires are immune to the negative effects of banes possession unless it's a bane of blood or death(which is why the infernal path of the wyrm even works). Being possessed by those makes blood worms and draugr.
Otherwise, the vampire can ignore autonomy entirely and just take more powers with no consequences.

>>96071891
Bane possession eats the soul and the body, and the more powerful the boons then more powerful the Bane… becomes. Until it fully devours, dominates, or shunts the host’s soul.

>>96072056
Still loses to the curse of caine according to the books. There tiers of evil anon, vampires benefits from Curse > Random Bane.

>>96072056
Funny enough, for Vampires unless it's incredibly powerful or specializes in possessing Vampires, Bane is the one that gets fucked in this relationship.

>>96072195
Lick: Do you feel in charge?
bane: ...I-i've possessed you a-and imbued you with unnatural power!
Lick: And this gives you... power over me?

>>96072195
imagine being a nexus crawler and getting trapped inside a shovelhead lol

>>96072195
So, would a Bane possessed vampire get increasingly more Boons? Or would the Bane realize and then stop growing? What if a very powerful and old Bane was forced to possess a vampire with some kind of thaumaturgy or something? A Vampire with Bane gifts sounds utterly cracked and overpowered.

>>96072364
>So, would a Bane possessed vampire get increasingly more Boons?
Yes.
>A Vampire with Bane gifts sounds utterly cracked and overpowered
welcome to the world of obscure WoD mechanics.

>>96071642
you are thinking too small! garou gargoyle(dav france by night), fomori with devil due (you need a earthbound to make garou gargoyles) arcana!

>>96072562
>garou gargoyle
Abominations are overhyped garbage. Fomori with xp can have all the same powers, have a higher power cap, and don't suffer any of the drawbacks.
>you need a earthbound to make garou gargoyles
What? Mind rephrasing that anon, I don't think you typed what you meant to type.

>>96072305
>>96072364
Man, imagine how busted a Nexus Crawler-possessed vampire would be

Arch-mages eat your hearts out

>>96071891
Psychomachiae will also take them for a ride.

>>96072305
Those were only ever the rules for lower-powered bane fomori. A nexus crawler usually doesn't possess anyone, and if it does, it's probably leaving just as readily, without any regard for its vessel's structural integrity.

>>96072956
Possessed can't use their passenger's spirit arts, they can only use possessed powers.
Theoretically, a nexus-crawler possessed may get more initial power points for free(maybe like 25 instead of 5, as suggested in the notes on jaggling possessed), but would otherwise be the same as any other fomor.

>>96072978
>Those were only ever the rules for lower-powered bane fomori.
Not true at all. Even Maeljin incarnae are stuck with these rules, which is why vampires can cast Die Herrschaft des Wyrms 5 without exploding.

>>96072995
>Even Maeljin incarnae are stuck with these rules
Only partially true, maeljin can't leave on their own if compelled to enter a vampire, but they can exert influence kinda like a shadow. They can for you to make a diff 8 self-control/instinct roll vs doing an action they want.
This is still a literal god of corruption reduced to being just a devil on you shoulder though.

There is a reason why Baba Yaga is compared to Maeljin Incarna and makes Zmei her bitch. When the Rage Across Russia literally suggest getting Mages involved since to quote "the traditional dragonslayers of old are not Garou but mages."

>>96072913
>What? Mind rephrasing that anon, I don't think you typed what you meant to type.
no it's right Viorica needs the help of a earthbound Vassago to make garou gargoyles that's why there are only 3 at the time of the book

>>96073135
i mean there is a reason why she took out the majority of tradition mages in russia by using stealth ghouling while the garou just been attacked openly after given a open "join or die" offer

>>96072562
>dav france by night
Why is an official sourcebook only in French?!?

>>96073240
That shouldn't matter? The actual rules are that nothing can influence a werewolfs resistance to the embrace. Earthbound should be just as powerless over that as any vamp, mage, etc.

What happens when a Mage gets possessed by a Bane?

>>96073568
They lose 1 dot of arete for every 3 points of fomori powers they manifest. Doesn't prevent seekings or re-buying it with xp, but it's a Massive xp sink.

>>96073608
Arete is also capped by permanent willpower and max willpower is capped by autonomy.

>>96073553
Celestine level guys can influence it and I am willing to bet that some Earthbound that can throw the whole planet into chaos realm qualifies for it. (Lore of Chaos and Mastery makes for one scary shit)

>>96073656
Mastery caps at 5, which would only affect roughly half the US.
That's still covering half a continent ina perpetual storm, earthquake, or dimensional chaos event for 69(nice) weeks, but nowhere near planet/celestine level. Earthbound cap out at roughly equal to or below Incarnae.

>>96073693
This is a dark ages supplement too, so the "earthbound" is stuck with devil's due rules. They're stuck capping at around jaggling level because the high TF levels of the dark ages.

>>96073135
Because the writers wanted it that way.

>>96073693
Nta but if I calculated right 9000km is basically the whole Earth (12k+), not just USA

Plus it covers say, the moon easily. Even if you say that isn't enough.

Or other powers, like say you use Command the Storm with Faith 10, Mastery 5, you cover basically half the solar system.

>>96073553
the garou gargoyles are no aborminations per rules they are just gargoyles on heavy steroids with a warform (although that might just be v20 not using crossover materials)

and for some reason you need a demon for the ritual, don't ask me why, the book does not go into great detail what the demon does in said ritual only that it does not work without him despite Viorica's efforts

can't believe Baba Yaga was the lebron of cainites and then got no diffed by a loli

>>96073488
it was even written in english first by the usual onyx path writers and then translated to french

>>96073870
Can you tell they had no idea on how to resolve that plot line?

Would any of the hereditary templates be affected by modern maternity tech such as in vitro fertilization or surrogate motherhood?

>>96071109
It's clear we don't agree on fundamentals here, restating points we do not agree on. You talk about attracting shitty players like flies but I don't think they even need to be playable in the overwhelming majority of games. You seem very fixated on their narrow and obvious historical inspiration, I want to rewrite them to divorce them from that; because the alternative is to create a new Clan to take their spot or make it the 12 clans, which creates all sorts of problems.

You obviously don't agree with my solution, so what is yours? Is it as to make them a Hunter organization because that best matches their obvious inspiration? At that point, regardless of how good or bad of an idea that is, I wouldn't consider that a rewrite, since they are no longer vampires at all.

>>96071245
Because it's spelled Wormwood you mongoloid.

>>96073857
Anon, the circumfrance of the equator is 40,075 miles and has a surface area of 511 million kilometers.

>>96073869
So they're basically like animal-embraced gargoyles made from war-wolves?

>>96073992
Up to ST. Most likely no, unless the one doing it is a mage.

>>96074013
>40,075 miles
*kilometers

>>96073870
I can. Revised Metaplot sucked.

>>96074031
yeah basically just totally obdient gargoyles in crinos form, but like i said they don't do any crossover beside that so for all other intends and purposes they are still normal gargoyles just on steroids (and i think without flight). It's also not mentioned if you still need to also throw a vampire into the pod or not

>>96074013
Why would circumfrance and surface area matter? Diameter is 12000 km or so. Half the planet would shatter if Hell on Earth is unleashed around the Earthbound with Faith 10, Mastery 5. Worse if Earthbound targets the center of Earth.

>>96073870
Not surprising, some of the most powerful vampires are shots and lolis. See Ur Shulgi.

>>96074090
Hell on earth does destroy things, it makes reality go wibbly for a while before reverting right back to normal. Wave of Mutilation, the thing that actually destroys stuff, only affects living things.

>>96074126
>Hell on earth does destroy things
*doesn't

>>96074126
Changes don't revert back.

>>96074037
True but is there lore pointing towards yes or no? I'm mostly curious about what would be weirdest route I could go with the concept outside of the Garou killing one another over using this stuff.
I had this idea of a Metis surrogate being hunted down because the others believe this is how the perfect Metis happens.

>>96074195
You can't clone or surrogate garou/changers, period. The ST books had a faq section that took a hard stance on that. The thing that makes a changer a changer requires a spiritual aspect that can't be induced artificially.

speaking of clones. Can a Progenitors do backup bodies for other splats or do you need to be a mage to do the mind and soul transfer?

>>96074301
If I wasn't clear, the idea is that the child is a normal human and the mother is a Metis. That's why it is debatable if the kid would fit the prophesies.

>>96074343
Depends on the splat and ST. For the most part all that necessary is preparation and the right spheres.

>>96074346
The perfect metis has to be a metis. A kinfolk born of a metis wouldn't fit at all.

>>96074374
The galliards will find a way to reconcile the accounts.

What Tradition would you assign to the following character concept?
>American soldier deployed in the middle east, young and just following orders. Ambushed during patrol, his squad got wiped and he got hit with shrapnel from an enemy explosive. He awakened while fighting for his life. He now has severe PTSD, got a medical discharge and has become, for the most part, a pacifist. Dreads the idea of picking up a weapon again, and hopes to use his newfound power to heal and help others heal

>>96074392
The galliards don't get a say in what pops off the apocolypse. That's between the wyrm and gaia.

>>96074421
Technocracy Progenitor
Traditions don't typically pull from big gov institutions, they tend to recruit people from college campuses or homeless shelters.

>>96074421
i would second what the other anon said, but if it has to be traditions then there is a anti war faction in the etherites following the example of Czar Vargo

>>96073857
>Or other powers, like say you use Command the Storm with Faith 10, Mastery 5, you cover basically half the solar system.
I thought you were bullshitting but it seems to be just a exxegeration and at that point, a well deserved one.
I checked it and I was the one who got shit on.
Command the Storm creates a Weather effect in a radius equal to Faith rating in miles. A Faith 10 Earthbound can cause a 10-mile hurricane if they want.
Mastety 5 can increase this by x100.000.
So you get a 1.000.000 miles of a storm. Which is large enough to surround the sun if you want.

Which is, while not half the solar system, is basically holy shit levels of BS. No wonder an Angel one shot all the antediluvians in that ToJ scenario if weakened Fallen Angels can do shit like this.

>>96074343
Progenitors are better at that then the traditions
in fact they have an entire methodology dedicated too moving people over, and yes that includes the soul (note: do not call it a soul unless you want to be laughed at or get sent too room 101)

>>96074564
Earthbound are a lot closer to their old angelic strength than other fallen, and even stronger in some areas.
Angels only have access to their own houses lores, earthbound have access to whichever lores they want for invoking and rituals.

>>96074564
Ah, the glorious logical conclusion to any WoD conversation: "None of this matters because Belial nukes your chronical by spending an addition five faith."

So I've been reading Sorcerer Revised and I'm a little confused on psychic powers. Some powers list specific difficulty levels, others make no mention of it at all. Is there a 'default' difficulty for cases where difficulty is not listed?

>>96075804
Here's how it works in m20.

>>96075844
I've been looking at 20th also, but overall leaning towards Revised.

>>96074374
Some kin in the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone give birth to spontaneous Crinos-born, even though they aren't Garou (W20 World of Rage).

>>96074426
Are you familiar with the Rank 6 Gift: Storyteller? It's not a certain override, but they certainly get a much bigger part to play than normal.

"There! Now the Maeljin is trapped in a book I wrote. I crummy world full of plot holes and spelling errors!"

>>96073964
Oh, the V:tM developer did, and it was "make everyone feel scared and insignificant."

I'd say it was about a 50% success.

I swear I saw an Awakening merit that gave you extra Reaches when using a particular arcanum, but I can't find it. Am I going crazy?

>>96075804
Psychic powers default to the same difficulty scaling as sorcery paths(because they're slightly weird sorcery paths) if no difficulty is mentioned(being level of power + 4).
All psychic powers are technically a paradigm of sorcery according to Srev and you can turn paths into powers or vice versa. They just get special rules modifications like how it doesn't take turns per level for powers.

Honestly it's best to have player's who don't know shit about wod in Hunter games
>After seeing a man screaming there's a rabbit in the woods it's now popping up scralled all over town by different people
>It's like a mind virus that's spreed to the homeless and rural areas
>Your first lead is a local none profit, Aunt Bonnie food pantry that was destroyed by an unknown suspect
Thirty minutes they argued why the homeless have Elvis and Jhonny Cash shrines and I just laughed

>>96075950
>Are you familiar with the Rank 6 Gift: Storyteller?
You only get to alter one scene. It does not allow you to retroactively alter the entire timeline of werewolf so that you can edit the prophecy of the phoenix.

>>96072364
>What if a very powerful and old Bane was forced to possess a vampire with some kind of thaumaturgy or something? A Vampire with Bane gifts sounds utterly cracked and overpowered.
Congratulations, you've discovered the reason why Tremere take Spirit path.

About thirty years late.

>>96076210
You don't need to alter the entire timeline of the game to introduce another sign of the phoenix. The Eighth Sign itself was a bit of stunt writing, but it goes well with the general tone of the setting.

>>96076204
>Psychic powers default to the same difficulty scaling as sorcery paths(because they're slightly weird sorcery paths) if no difficulty is mentioned(being level of power + 4).
So, it's another inconsistent disjointed mess. Well, so much for that.

>>96076650
It mentions it in the path section.

>>96076204
>Psychic powers default to the same difficulty scaling as sorcery paths(because they're slightly weird sorcery paths) if no difficulty is mentioned(being level of power + 4)
[9 - path mastery] is way better a diff. Gives a real sense of progression and prevents the scenario where higher path rating makes the user less likely to succeed and more liable to botch than someone who just got their powers.

For psychics you can allow them to roll Willpower and not use any foci with the condition that their Willpower would cost x2, they'll have higher diffs in stressful situations, lose Willpower (generally temporary, but sometimes permanent at your discretion) on a botch, and can never use rituals and ritual and foci-based paths, only spontaneous effects.

>>96072195
The very existence of vampires in NWOD/COD suddenly becomes more hilarious upon reading this excerpt.

>>96072195
For those who are interested: your friendly neighborhood chantry probably sells banes at reasonable prices.

>>96076981
Why?
>>96077065
Reasonable prices... Like a seat at the primogen council and prepubescent children in multiples of 7.

>>96077264
Don't be silly.
We already have plenty of kids in the basement.

>>96077065
Secret Spirits Sold Super Cheap

>>96077285
>kids in the basement.
Friendly reminder that although the entry fee is very, very steep, Populate Night's Gardens solves ALL your blood, recruit and test subject issues in the long term once you get a stable population going.
Also, with some tunneler/builder strains real estate stops being an issues as you expand into the Earth's crust.
Just don't stuff banes into living specimens, only embraced ones (learn Soul of the Earth and keep a loyal gargoyle around for that). Unless you get a bad batch and furry neighbours up on the surface that need a distraction.

Oh, also, Skaven exist and they alllll SUCK!
Filthy little terrorist buggers.
Keep your crays well defended as you dig them up.

>>96077264
The description of what happens in VTM when a Blood Bane or a Psychomachia possesses a vampire is identical to the baseline condition of a vampire in VTR. I don't know, I just found that a hilarious coincidence.

>>96077460
>Populate Night's Gardens
>it's only level 3
Impressive.

>>96077485
Weird, sounds like they realized they already wrote what they wanted for once.

>>96077482
They are so mid I forget they exist most of the time.

>>96077507
Accessibility to normal players is its big selling point, but you still need an obscene amount of blood and about two years to get everything going. So it's a long term investment.

If your game is fast-paced, as in, the next session picks up where the last ended, and especially if it's highly lethal better pick something else.

>>96077557
Catgirl production will go ahead in a couple years, then.

When you run games, do you create cities or do you use real life cities? If you create cities how do you handle maps of the city to give to players? I am thinking of giving Deviant as a GM, but I've never actually run a game set in a modern setting before. Just curious about other's experiences. Also for players do you like when the game is set in an original city or do you like playing in real life cities?

>>96077545
Until you run into whole catacomb network full of them and the rat ogres with rabies and their lesser but even more obnoxious relatives start smearing shit, pestilence and setting IEDs everywhere. And they breed better than cockroaches.

Founder's sake, lupines are downright civil and amiable in comparison.

>>96077586
We use real cities with the caveat that the ST may change some stuff. Or just forget.

>>96077586
I use real cities for major ones, since you can draw on a lot of history in most cases. Small towns I'll happily make up if I don't know the area since accurate info on small towns is much harder to find.

>>96077586
Either can work, but real city (city book or RL with few adjustments) saves you a lot of effort that most players would barely appreciate.

Detailed maps for existing cities are not strictly necessary, but by all means keep one if you afraid to forget territories and important locations.

>>96077586
Mostly real cities with a few changes (some longer streets, some buildings here and there, maybe a ghetto over here).
That is, unless I want to have some isolated community like "Bumfuck Nowhere, USA" or "Forgotten Oil Town, Russia." Then I just make them up.
As for non-city locations such as forests, deserts, the sea, etc. I just take the general geographical and natural traits of the area and make everything else up.

>>96076003

>>96077799
Go to Codex of Darkness, it's got a compilation of everything divided by gameline, edition and sourcebook.

>>96077865
I did. It's not there.

Is it possible for a vampire to Diablerize a Strix? What happens to the vampire, assuming he wins the contest?

>>96077998
I don't think there are rules for that.
I'd allow it and think about some cool powers and a couples weird flaws to give the diablerist.
Yellow eyes are probably obligatory.

>>96077998
Strix can eject at any moment, but IIRC one of developers suggested something like >>96078051, yellow eyes, smoky blood, all sorts of derangements and useless lost knowledge, if it has to happen.

>>96077998
>What happens to the vampire
His dick gets 3 inches bigger.

>>96078103
>yellow eyes, smoky blood, all sorts of derangements and useless lost knowledge, if it has to happen
IMO access to some Dread Powers (Strix's specifically, not general ones) and intensified banes and propensity for developing more would be fitting.

>>96078103
>smoky blood
ngl, that sounds cool.

wtf

>>96078268
Based Tremere.

>>96078268
Where would vamps even get cybernetics from? It's not like the technocracy is gonna sell to them. Pentex perhaps? Or shady Adept dark web sites?

>>96078268
>>96078328
World of Future Darkness. A semi-official crossover with Cyberpunk printed in White Wolf magazine.

So why would you even want to get cyberware from Tremere (or Techies), you might ask? Fun thing about this ritual is that Tremere grafting cyberware can effectively boost Celerity all way past generational cap, assuming recipient learns it to his natural maximum first.

>>96078367
>World of Future Darkness.
Ah, so it's exactly cannon then. Got it.

>>96078388
At this point nothing has been canon for like 20 years, and even back then different authors had completely irreconcilable ideas.

And it was a potential future crossover printed in a periodical. For an eschatological setting scheduled to end around the turn of the century.

No, it ain't canon, chief. Even if it was printed in an official magazine by one of authors that worked on it, even if WoD in cyberpunk future idea has merit and was explored in several canon books.

Can you clone other supernaturals with Asymmetrical Reproduction? The text says it can be used to clone vampires, in addition to humans, and the clones are perfect copies of the original until they freak out and start killing, so I assume it should be possible.

>>96078815
If it half-asses a copy of a measly lick and promptly turns it into murderous wight, what hope it would have at copying something that's half-way, or more than half-way a spirit? How would it even begin to copy an Avatar (although, granted, a wretched Avatar of a Nephandus might play along and split itself cause it's funny and would cause misery to everyone involved)?

Now, granted, weirder things can be done with Thamaturgy, but not with this particular cheap and dirty ritual.

>>96077586
My ST went with a fictional city; heavily inspired by an old video game called Twisted Metal Black.

>>96078268
and in world of future darkness it only costs a minor boon to clan tremere

the article does not go into how much the tzimisce are malding about this

>>96079061
Tzimisce would be seething more about people trading flesh for metals and polymers.
And probably blessing various scav and chrome hate gangs with all-organic enhancements.

>>96078815
I'm sure the Technocracy can pull some bullshit, but I'd say no otherwise. Too much spirit shit at play with literally every splat, and that doesn't get passed down via genetics.

>>96078051
Well Strix do have the same aura as a Diablerist, so it's not like it's a stretch to assume it's never happened before.

>>96079448
>Technocracy can pull some bullshit
To a point? Born-awakened are a thing that conspicuously happens with technocratic involvement, and priming personnel for Awakening is an industrialised process quite a bit older than Order of Hermes, but the results are still very far from copy-and-paste reliable.

Resurrecting a dead technocrat by activating a backup clone or borg on the other hand is a reliable practice, and ancient technocrats that left significant enough body of work linger as proto-AIs centuries after even their bones turned to dust.

>>96078815
>The clone created by this ritual is a perfect, but living, duplicate of its target in every way, including all appropriate Merits, Disciplines, and personality traits, but only possesses the most rudimentary memories of the individual it is replicating.
It doesn't reproduce vampires, it makes copies of them as if they were alive. I'd guess they retain disciplines because they're being made out of vitae.

>>96079118
The tzimisce are kinda dumb for not fully realizing the bio-netic crafting potential of vicissitude a long time ago. Guys should've already been making space marines in the 1980's.

>>96079620
They just focus on peculiar aesthetics over practicalities.
Give them some slack, they can't alter fundamental properties of what they work with, they need Vic6 to graft anything, and the result often doesn't last that long before it dies from rejection and infections caught during unsanitary transplants cause sterilisation is Tremere nonsense.

Nobody tell >>96079620 about war ghouls.

>>96079738
War ghouls are an expensive waste of resources for how little of an improvement they get. Way too much focus on aesthetics over function
>>96079723
Altering the physical shape of biology alters its function. Doesn't even require grafting.
For example: altering the length of neural cords running through a person's body alters the distance the signal travels and thus the time it takes for the signal to reach the brain.
Another example: the abound of hormones a tissue produces is directly related to the tissues surface area, which correlates with size. Increasing the size of specific glands in the brain can let that person produce several times the normal dopamine(which regulates time perception), and have them see the world in slow-motion like a house-fly.
Combine the two examples above and You could give someone effective super-speed exactly like the cybernetics outlined in world of future darkness. It just takes using knowledge of biology with vicissitude.

>>96079823
>strength 8
>stamina 6
>potence 6
>fortitude 4
>"""aesthetics over function"""
yeah i don't know what sort of stats you're expecting if that's not good enough for a tzimisce war machine

>>96079837
I see no reason why a properly designed Tzimisce super-ghoul should not have 10 in Strength, Dexterity, Stamina, Potence, Celerity and Fortitude. They have literally all of the tools they need to accomplish this.

>>96079837
Don't forget:
>Dexterity 2
>Perception 1
>Wits 1
>Brawl 2
Your beginning shovelhead could kill this thing.

>>96079118
there is a group of lasombra and tzimisce in the sabbat who are all about transhumanism (called transhumanists) because they follow the logic that a better human baseline will make for a better neonate and yes that includes cybernetics but they haven't managed to get any results in 50 years

>>96079948
If that shovelhead had a forklift and was an example to us all.

Bread Delivery
>>96080231
>>96080231
>>96080231