Hated Enemies Edition

Resources:
WFB: https://pastebin.com/qVGrgwwh
WM: https://pastebin.com/EsDAgeba
WFRP: https://pastebin.com/inbyBsR6
Novels: https://pastebin.com/PFqPDr0H
>Warhammer Chronicles:
https://files (dot) catbox (dot) moe/0xt777 (dot) zip
>Time of Legends:
https://files (dot) catbox (dot) moe/q46ut6 (dot) zip
>The End Times:
https://files (dot) catbox (dot) moe/j7d0t5 (dot) zip
>TOW:
https://gofile.io/d/fxFgXS
https://www.warhammer-community.com/the-old-world-downloads/
>Alternative Models:
https://pastebin.com/xPeM9szL
>FAQ/Errata
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/wgp83jlw/old-world-faq-and-errata-designers-notes/

>Previous Thread:
>>96044634

>Thread Question:
What do you think the dogs of war reveal on the 18th will bring?

>TQ
Don’t know. I got nothing but apathy for it. Hopefully there is some narrative stuff along with it because the games getting stale atm.

Finally got around to finish this thing. I sold my original away years ago, and in hindsight that was probably the biggest regret I had concerning my old miniatures. Fortunately I could snag this one quite cheap - it's only missing the little part from the bottom of the hull, which is not visible when looked at normally.
Paint scheme was pretty much aped from the 6th edition box. The base has half a dragon skull from my bits box to support the stem.
TQ: No new scultps, I'd guess. But I'd love to see some cool old stuff return, like the birdmen. Guess I'm in a flying unit mood right now.

>>96061563
Forgot to mention that this pic is missing a gem effect from the pilot's helmet that I added immediately after taking the photo and realizing it was missing

>>96061563
Kino. I recently picked up the original dwarf 6th edition army book and imo the older dwarf sculpts are better than the newer ones. I can understand why people prefer the new, but I would kill for a full army of those insanely characterful 5th? Edition metal dwarfs.

>>96061552
Is he retarded? "Largely the same" to anyone with a modicum of english comprehension doesn't mean all the warhammer games have connected universes, it just means the chaos gods have mostly similar traits/identities across the different settings

>>96061572
Thanks anon. Obviously the older metal sculpts have a fantastic charm to them, but even the plastic warriors during the 6th edition were a curious case. These two kits were released only 5 years apart, and while many would say that the earlier models with literal hamfists got improved, I find this to be a strange instance of a sidegrade. I honestly couldn't say which box was better. The later kit of course benefited from being compatible with the ranged units box... But these newer dwarfs never quite went together neatly (the body and the front+head parts).

>>96061505
Dope shit anon, way better than GWs. Might have to pick some up once im done wood elfing
>>96061573
Yeah this is pretty obvious its not saying all universes are literally connected via chaos just they have made chaos a major part of each setting
>TQ
not really caring one way or the other, maybe 1 unit or 2 I might pick up. Im still chewing through beasts and wood elves though so I'm not really interested in them or cathay or whatever new shit is coming atm.

>>96061572
Metal dwarfs are objectively better. They had a high degree of character and fun, their proportions and poses were just classic dwarf kino. The newer plastics look like shit in comparison, they're stiff, have no character (outside maybe the pony carts), less exaggerated features, more human-like proportions. All around disappointing, I wish they brought back more of the metal models instead.

>>96061643
>Dope shit anon, way better than GWs. Might have to pick some up once im done wood elfing
Thanks, appreciate it.
I looked for decent proxies for a while and didn't find anything until these dropped recently within the past month or two so if you are looking for razorgors i strongly recommend these bad boys.

I always wondered why the Chaos Warriors never used firearms, and now I know the answer.

>>96061658
Well, even among the classics these metal longbeards are true cream of the crop. Diaz Daemonette tier models.
The musician is my favourite, I can't find a good enough picture but I love the way he nonchalantly has his drum and two little sticks.

>>96061679

I think it's because they're supposed to be dumb northern barbarians who don't have the supplies, infrastructure and drill to use them with any efficiency. However, it's a bit of a shame that regular marauders have no access to bows and only their horsemen have javelins. Throwing spears would make sense for marauders thematically.

>>96061658
>>96061711
>metal longbeards
>diaz daemonettes
>6th edition metal grave guard
>5th edition metal plaguebearers
>archaon on horse
>green knight
>4th edition phoenix guard
>metal stone trolls

>>96061573
>Is he retarded?
yes, the article doesn't say what he thinks it says. but the realm of chaos IS multiversal and connecting the settings, that's always been true and never been untrue.

>>96061751

Good taste, the metal grave guards were great designs. I'd add the forgeworld infernal guard and k'daii among the best Warhammer sculpts.

>immigrating to new country soon
>prices 15-20% lower for Warhammer fantasy across the board
I’m rock hard and deciding which new army I want to start.

>>96061552
>the thing we directly stole from Moorcock is the most Warhammer thing in Warhammer

>>96061761
>forgeworld infernal guard and k'daii among the best Warhammer sculpts.

>>96061771
To be fair, he's saying the 4 gods' characters are, not the underlying metaphysics of chaos.

>>96061775
Even then, since they ditched the gods of chaos and the idea of balance over edgy British nihilism they kinda just wrote an edgy lengthy fanfiction people pay them money for.

How long until we start hating chaos dwarfs again

>>96061780
Gods of order, my bad.

>>96061780
yeah, but balance requires nuance they aren't able to pull off, while their game required cartoonishly evil enemies, which make for better or easier models

>>96061772

Yes. K'daai look like fire daemons bound to suits of armour. They are tall and slim, but there are still design elements that tie them to the rest of the azgorh range. The faceless and relatively ornamentless armour of the infernal guard also shows the industrial and standardized nature of chaos dwarf wargear.

>>96061827
Not chorf wargear. Specifically dishonoured dwarf wargear. You can't use beautifully crafted things if you walk the path of shame, you have to redeem your honour first.

Is starting cathay a mistake
I like the models

>>96061879
Go for it.
WarChinks looks great.

>>96061879
You can start what you want you’ll never fill the goblin shaped hole in your heart (until you do a goblin only army)

>>96061879
starting warhammer in current year is a mistake

>>96061879
Yes it's a mistake.

>>96061879
Why would it be a mistake? The models are great and it’s a strong but not broken army.

>>96061920
>gay lore
>gay models
>broken
>literally designed by Wumao trolls
>the TWW cuck's faction of choice

I played Elves in 6th edition. What to play in TOW, DE or HE?

>>96062036
I think DE are cooler but wait for them to get proper non legacy rules. They are almost surely one of if not the first legacy army that will be brought back. HE are far more interesting as of now. If I were to choose right now I would go HE and build a Chracian Warhost. Very strong and thematic.

>>96062005
>gay lore
Agreed
>gay models
Hard disagree the models are fantastic
>broken
Hard disagree very middle of the pack.
>Wumao
Hyperbolic but I can see your point and it ties into the whole gay lore thing.
>TWW
Giving Cathay way too much credit.

Pretty much done with my Razorgor, only missing the base, quick and easy drybrushing with a bit of painting, oiling and more drybrushing.

>>96062094
Cute

>>96061920
>>96061883
I am worried they might not be fun if GW decides to stretch out model releases for a very long time and I'm stuck with something with minimal flexibility
>>96061916
You're right. Maybe I should wait for recasts
>>96061902
Night Goblins are alright
Are they viable?

Is there a single race as CHAD as the fucking beastmen?

Marienburg, I curse her. If it weren't for her, the Empire could have had the largest and most powerful naval fleet in the Old World. True blue-water fleets, not ramshackle and antiquated brown-water fleets.

>>96062112
Lizardmen, my friend, are a thousand times better than those furries.

This fucking thread will just keep seething over Cathay won't it?

>>96062153
>furries, my friend, are a thousand times better than those furries

>>96062153
>Fat gross frog

Yeah okay fag

>>96061827
but they aren't good sculpts in the slightest

>>96061751
>>diaz daemonettes
The horrors were better than the demonettes.

>>96062155
Until they're fixed and then even after that because people are literal retards.
People still whine about tau, and tau had a much better integration at launch.

>>96062161
>>96062167
Okay, if you don't believe me, then here it goes.
1- Lizards don't have fur, they have scales and don't count as furries.
2- Lizardmen aren't just fat toads; they're also muscular humanoid lizards that ride dinosaurs.
3- I win, you lose.

>>96062180

Yes they are.

Almost done with base colors and shade for my first 15 jade warrior. Should I highlight them?

>>96062112
There's nothing chad about shitgoats, in fact, they're the polar opposite of it. They're the incel simp who desperately begs for Stacy (chaos gods) to notice him, but is ignored, laughed at and treated as bog roll (hence their innate affinity for poo).

>>96062255
Nah don't worry about it just leave them bro

>>96062255
no

>>96061552
Someone show that guy the excerpt where a High Elf interacts with a Space Marine, he would probably start frothing at the mouth. Or something like that, I forget which book its from.

>>96062207
Scalies are furries.

>>96062112
Chaos Dwarfs, horrid industrial hellscape jews will always outdo forest goat rape barbarians.

>>96062255
Depends how they look. Can't judge without seeing them.

>>96062445
never heard of that

>>96062532
Fuck I never pictured chorfs as bitter little merchants
Now I wanna collect them

>>96062608
How could you miss that for so long?

>>96062615
How they're very clearly Mesopotamian in design?

>>96062621
A middle eastern merchant is a middle eastern merchant.

>>96062615
Unlike you I don't seem out the Jew you fucking golem

>>96061552
>Posting shitter

>>96062621
Ok, and?

Sorry about the quick phone pic. I think there’s a lot of potential in de-detailing the AoS range for WHFB. I’ve also done it for blightkings and plan to do it for much of the chaos range. I do think they need the de-detailing though, to work for whfb.

>>96062869
>I’ve also done it for blightkings
The blightkings are a Fantasy kit. Same for Wrathmongers.

>>96062608
They were a bunch of people who wandered east through an inhospitable land. Take slaves and think all who aren't them are only good for chattel. Exploit others to do most of their fighting for them. Are agressively supremacist on a racial level, but within their race are all backstabbing industrialists who engage in egregious nepotism. And their money is called the shekel.

How did Old World 1.5 influence your enjoyment of the game?

>>96062869
Looks fuarkin sick cunt

>>96062883
If you can point me towards a source to prove their money is called Shekels I'll buy a Chorf right now

>>96062919
It's quoted in the throne of chaos book.

>>96061552
K...

Hi guys, question about the Infernal Gate Way spell for Dark Magic, does it move a unit a character has joined as well as the character or just the character, cheer!

>>96062893
Seems fine. Instead of risking regular Chaos Knights, I now just ram Chosen Knights into infantry for the same effect.

>>96062947
just the character

I’m a decently versed GM and I’ve got a group of total green friends to play WFRP. Simply put, should we go for 2e or 4e? We’re all zoomers.

On this day, 10 years ago, Warhammer Fantasy Battle truly died.

>>96063031
They're pretty similar systems in most ways, 2e is a bit more simple but 4e addressed problems some people have with it (like whiffy combat). It's a matter of preference really, both are good.
2e is set after the Storm of Chaos, 4e is set during the "modern" pre-End Times of 8th edition WFB. But you can use material from either system in the other without much of an issue, there are free conversion tables out there and everything.

>>96062621
Abraham was born in mesopotamia

>>96062893
Very happy with the list building variety it opens up, not having to take a level 4 is great

>>96063079
Cool, thanks! And to kinda gauge their opinion or expectation, is it fair to say that 4e is more heroic while 2e keeps it grounded in the gothic mud? That would probably help me decide on the fly. We’re playing face to face as well.

>>96063115
No, I don't think so really. Except maybe in the sense that the post-SoC setting of 2e is more grim while 4e is by default in a time of relative peace (as much as that's ever really a thing in warhammer). In terms of mechanics and tone otherwise they're both in the same ball park, more or less. Mud, shit and blood and all that.

>>96062919
They use the shekel in the Assyrian sense, that is as a weight measure.

>>96063044
>some people played 8th edition for 14 fucking years
grim

>>96063140
We’ll play 2E then. Any typical house ruling to negate the early fumbling or should I leave that as is?

>>96063173
Good luck. It's been so long since I played 2nd edition that I can't help with the mechanics off the top of my head, hopefully some other anon can.

>>96063115
Pretty sure that impression comes from how people back then tended to play 2e as mudcore torture game. Or, certain people. I can at least attest that 4e can get pretty heroic, but nothing stopping a GM from throwing even more bullshit at them (which kinda goes for any system).

>>96063162
Uhhh I guess I'll just play the most recent edition because I'm incapable of independent thought

>>96063281
guys…. we’re playing 2e…. MOMS GONNA FREAKING FREAK!!!!

>>96063044
fantasy died long before that, and it wasnt aos that killed it

What do I buy with the last 33 points?

251 - Duke, Lance, Shield, General, Royal Pegasus
170 - Prophetess, Unicorn, Wizard Level 3, Illusion
47 - Sergeants-At-Arms, Shield
89 - 18 Men-At-Arms, Yeoman, Standard Bearer, Musician
89 - 18 Men-At-Arms, Yeoman, Standard Bearer, Musician
165 - 6 Mounted Knights of the Realm, The Knight's Vow, First Knight, Standard Bearer, Musician
165 - 6 Mounted Knights of the Realm, The Knight's Vow, First Knight, Standard Bearer, Musician
60 - 12 Peasant Bowmen, Skirmishers
60 - 12 Peasant Bowmen, Skirmishers
161 - 12 Battle Pilgrims & Grail Reliquae
• 12x Battle Pilgrim
• 1x Grail Reliquae
184 - 3 Pegasus Knights, The Knight's Vow, First Knight
177 - 6 Questing Knights, Paragon, Standard Bearer, Musician
100 - Field Trebuchet
249 - 6 Grail Knights, Grail Guardian, Standard Bearer, Musician

>>96063701
...did you really not give your duke a single magic item?

>>96063701
Your characters are naked

>>96063701
Talisman of protection at the very least for your duke

today I discovered dark elves have pterosaurs too

>>96063813

>>96063813
>>96063823
these look Abyssal Terrors from the Vampire Counts range at the time but with less limbs

Were there ever any rules for empire chaos cults

>>96063813
I like this
It feels right that they should ride these

>>96062109
Night goblins are still one of the best units in the game

>>96063835
where high elves get caledorian lesser drakes cavalry, dark elves get naggarothian great pterons cavalry?

>>96063988
I mean, it's just drawing back freshly from the source.

>>96062109
>I am worried they might not be fun if GW decides to stretch out model releases for a very long time and I'm stuck with something with minimal flexibility
They're getting a second army list this fall that lets you take Empire units as mercs, so you'll have some flexibility then.

>>96062893
As a wood elf player I think 1.5 is a slight increase but our faction is general is now extremely limited. Thorn sisters, glade riders, dragons, treemen, dispel all increased but poison and objectives really fucking are denting our style I find. Generally it's just not going to be a fun edition as the army book gave us weird shit and left us with internal balance shit so we got some good stuff and dogshit. Im have fun for now but I just don't see myself able to stick it out forever. Fun models as always at least

>>96064079
isn't that going to be redundant now with dogs of war giving everyone some mercenaries?

>>96064099
Oh and wild riders frenzy and being light cav sucks making one of our decent chargers shittier especially now infantry changes make them harder to shift

>>96064118
Historically mercs in WHFB only work for a few factions each, with the good factions (sans wood elves) getting far more variety than the bad ones (sans orcs)

>>96064118
They might get special rules to make them more than regular mercs, but the stats for Empire stuff might make them better and/or cheaper points wise than DOW stuff.

>>96064308
but cathay does use mercs, and is not an evil faction

>>96064325
>cathay does use mercs
They do?

>>96064325
Cathay didn't effectively exist in prior editions now did it lad?

I sincerely hope those new HH changes aren't coming to TOW 2e.

>>96064385
We already got our 1.5 edition so don't know what happened to HH but we prob safe for a while

>>96064385
I hope they do. War gear changes would barely matter, and if gw doesnt sell a model for it then then it shouldnt have rules. They should also lean the game into being more like an rpg than whatever the fuck its currently supposed to be.

>>96064396
Yeah it won't be for a few years at least. I will be so ass-mad if my fucking Norscan Berserkers get removed because "lmao no models, sowwy!"

>>96064331
well, yes, dogs of war have an extensive history of contacts with the orient and the ogres loading the cannons are themselves mercenaries

>>96064405
They literally have added 1 to 2 units without models into every book, worst they can do it put them to legacy. And unlike 40gay we don't Damnatio memoriae our stuff if it goes to legacy/legends. So far.

>>96064396
Also relevant 1.5 meme

>>96064385
I have no idea what's going on in HH but I'm sure marinefags are blowing shit out of proportion as usual.

>>96064423
Basically they're doing a AoS 4e and 40k 10e, making everything Index-hammer and removing all model and equipment options that don't come in the box. No more kitbashing and other stuff for things that don't have official models. Also hilarious rules like Imperial Fists shooting themselves when charged (instead of the opponent).

>>96064431
>hilarious rules like Imperial Fists shooting themselves when charged (instead of the opponent).
why?
Is this some dumb AoS 1st edition beer and pretzel rules thing, or is it just poorly worded?

>>96064453
Poorly worded. It's supposed to say "shoot the charging unit" but instead says "shoot the reacting unit".

>>96064431
>making everything Index-hammer and removing all model and equipment options that don't come in the box.
TOW is also technically indexhammer and the vast majority of stuff you have to convert ends up being found in the journals rather than the big books

>>96064431
This will happen to the Old World eventually too. You have to understand that making games is an obligation for James Wokeslop. They stopped caring about the hobby, the creative side of things and the gaming aspect a long time ago. They only care about milking you for overpriced miniatures. If indexing things and removing customisability, in their eyes, improves sales/reduces profit "leaks", then they'll do it. There's no reason they'll spare TOW from this philosophy unlike the other 3 big games.

>>96064331
>>96064340

>>96064468
That's a consequence of a relaunch and necessity, though. The fact there is stuff to convert at all is completely different than HH 3e.

>>96064484
While geedubs has always been a greedy fuck, we have 1 benefit in that this isn't as popular and therefore they have less room for error. Makes them less likely to blow up models or push stuff too fast as one bad edition or policy it's over. Hopefully we stay relatively small and out of their eyes as the best GW games remain side games.

>>96064489
Show me your models from Cathay 3rd to 5th ed then?
My point was DoW not taken by Cathay is a mute point since they didn't exist when DoW was created as a playable army.

>>96064495
What I'm saying is that I believe HH3ed will also get units you have to convert, but those will be part of their own journals too instead of the mainline product.

>>96064517
Nigga, I already posted the text that says cathay had relations with dogs of war and employed them, why do you think cathay wouldn't have had access to mercenaries if it had rules and models at the time?
Are you just being retarded on purpose?

>>96064522
>I believe
Believing in James Workshop is a recipe for disaster. But also, bit of a difference when its just an edition switch. Again I would be livid if my Berserkers were locked behind another book in TOW 2e.

>>96064539
That wasn't me retard.

>>96064539
>cathay had relations with dogs
KINKY

>>96064544
Your berserkers don’t exist

>>96064308
This is me
>>96064539
Wait did you think when I said "historically used" I mean the history of a fictional setting and not to the actual history of what DoW models were usable on the table by which factions? Because if I was referring to the setting I'd use "in lore" or something. I was responding to someone saying use DoW to keep collecting and my point was some factions will have very limited options of DoW if they stick to how they were used historically.

>>96064584
Uhhh might want to read the Chaos AJ anon

>>96064594
>my point was some factions will have very limited options of DoW
but cathay have zero reasons to be within those factions

>>96063044
If I was told 10 years ago that in a decades time Warhammer Fantasy 9th edition would be the only main GW system that people are mostly positive about, I would have punched them.

>>96064607
Imagine getting told that gw would release cathay, chaos dwarfs, kislev and a faction of steppe wolf riders, all in plastic and all in the same year.

>>96064606
ESL anon, is Cathay a "good" aligned faction? If so, given my statement that good aligned factions tend to have more DoW options, what do you think my prediction will be for cathays DoW options? (Especially given their small model range?

>>96064509
You could say the same about Horus heresy in popularity. But I’d just play this edition with a few tweaks and not bother to pick up the new thing

What’re we all working on? Happily going through my fabazel sculpts atm

>>96064633
why the fuck did you even make this post >>96064308 if you agreed all along that cathay would get access to dogs of war? because getting empire units as mercenaries in addition to dogs of war IS redundant.

the only possibilities are that you didn't know cathay had a history with dogs of war, that you're projecting your own inability to read, or that you're indeed retarded.

What are some effective ways to use BSBs for bretonnia? Worth putting them in a foot knight unit? Or mounted and joined up with knights of the realm/questing knights? Seems like you wouldn't want to run them with men at arms.

>>96064717
>because getting empire units as mercenaries in addition to dogs of war IS redundant.
It ain't because they have their own special rules, unit costs, and even style/lore. That's not even counting the special army rules the AJ will certainly give them.

>>96064489
>Wow, maybe there's a civilisation in the east? The only evidence we have is this tattered dragon banner the dwarfs think is belonged to the elves.
>meanwhile during the reign of Sigmar
>GREETINGS BARBARIAN CHIEF, I am a dragon from the east. Observe my powerful flying machines. I bet no one records this meeting. Especially not in the holy books of your religion that will later meticulously detail everything known about your life. Cathay? Who's that? Bye!

>>96064607
Don't people still like Necromunda and MESBG?

>>96064717
Dude seriously are you illiterate? Cathay wasn't even the fucking topic you nonce. You interjected about Cathay, which was not the topic(the og anon I replied to mentioned empire ffs) the topic was how DoW could flesh out a slow model release schedule for people. You interjected, misunderstood my post and are now whining like a bitch. Take the L and learn how to read in English.
Also real important for non English speakers- history can reference real or fictional but generally means real with other words and qualifiers generally used when speaking on fictional setting. The fact you couldn't pick up on this demonstrates 1- you are illiterate and 2- did not play prior editions and therefore have 0 context of how DoW operated when a faction. Making your input pointless.

>>96064752
>It ain't
yes, it is, it doesn't matter if the rules are slightly different, a unit of similarly costed humans with spears is a unit of similarly costed humans with spears and the same applies to DoW cavalry, DoW ranged units and DoW cannons.

>>96064789
"Main", but yes

Anyone know anything in the army books or RPGs about the history of the Cult of Khaine?

I have a lot of leftover dark elf and high elf bits and was thinking about marrying them to make a set fresh post-Sundering Witch Elves.

I figure in the initial surge the priestesses and acolytes might still have their old high elf regalia but be starting to strip down figuratively and literally as they experiment with frenzy drugs and knives. A giddy rush of freedom and anarchy as the cult re-establishes itself along new lines.

Thoughts on what the models might look like are welcome

>>96064799
>Dude seriously are you illiterate? Cathay wasn't even the fucking topic you nonce
yes, it was >>96064079
learn to fucking read

>>96064725
Generally BSB on knights gives you less value, as the unit sizes are smaller and knights tend to either win big or lose anyways. It also puts a bunch of points on a relatively small unit. As for foot, prior to this patch footknights weren't worth it but I've heard they got a glow up. The question is since BSB tend to need a big blob to be worth it, if you can run enough infantry as bretonnia.
That said both foot and mounted models are gorgeous so go for it.
>instant PTSD of the metal mounted one faceplanting a dozen times due to be weighted so poorly until I weighted the base

>>96064819
>still malding
>still mad anon called him out on trying to start a fight over his ESL
Why are all euros so fucking autistic?

>>96064834
Yeah that's kinda what I was asking, seems like the impact in a knight unit is lessened but then the only real option for them is foot knights. Maybe worth trying.

And I print all my stuff so all of my guys are gorgeous relative to 2015 GW standards.

>>96064813
>slightly different
You don't even know what the TOW DoW rules are going to be, you silly man.

>>96064819
You're still trying to twist shit, all I said was how DoW operated prior and you decided to throw a bitchfit. Not my fault your illiterate ass assumed some shit and then got mad at it.

>/wfg/ - Witless Faggots Griping

>>96064873
why did you post this inocorrectly assebled mini

>>96064895
>/wfg/ Whiny Faggot Grogs

>>96064818
khaine in 40k is probably a good indication of a non-overly edgy version of the god

so overall the same but less blood and more fire, less edgy blades and more greek stylings, less about murder and assassination and more about warfare and martial power, and more men since it wouldn't be strictly overseen by morathi.
it could also be easily imagined how the cult of the elven gods of the underworld wasn't as extreme as it would become later on, so perhaps there was still a certain separation between the role of the cultist and what the cultist himself would feel, drawing back again to 40k with how the eldar wear metaphorical and literal masks instead of embodying the character of khaine in their real selves, and although you're still depicting post sundering elves, so ones that are beginning to embrace the extremes, perhaps the motif of the mask could still be used if not as mere decoration as visual storytelling of them shedding that layer of protection, by having them wear broken masks, have the champions not wear masks unlike the units, or have them carry discarded masks as if they were gory trophies

>>96064949
Nta but I don't see it?

>>96064887
>You're still trying to twist shit
Who do you think was getting the empire units as mercs, in that conversation? Did you really reply to shit you didn't even read?

>>96065023
the banner is fighting gravity

>>96064848
You're projecting.

>>96064818
Archives of Empire vol 3, and Tome of Salvation have short sections on human khainite worship, and the HE player guide has a couple of pages on HE cults and practices.
The new High GM book has some stuff as well but it's again very High elf orientated

Fuck, man.
The pricing is simply ridiculous, regardless of its size.

>>96065041
It's blowing in the wind

>>96065091
https://www.myminifactory.com/object/3d-print-imperial-lantern-ship-of-cathay-525080

>>96063044
AOS didn't kill Fantasy.
Fantasy died because people were not playing it.
Even after the demise of the game, no one ever stopped you from calling or texting your friends and getting a game going. I played more game of Warhammer after End times than I did during 6th,7th and 8th combined.
And I never stopped playing, I have a game of 8th edition in 9 days and I could not care less of what GW decides to do with the game.
My books were all still there and so were my dwarfs.

If GW went crazy and discontinued TOW would you stop playing ? (probably yes, you would stop playing because apparently that's what most people decided to do. For some reason most GW players always seem to lack agency when it comes to their hobby)

>>96065111
To be fair for me it just got stale and then 8th didn't end on a super good place gameplay wise, so people started dropping and within like 3 years I was the only one holding on. Then someone tried 9th and it.. I don't know if it was 9th or the dude but it felt even gayer. After that I checked out of GW other than the occasional 40k game when asked. Hell I didn't even know about TOW until I saw some videos and then a local DM me asking about if I would sell my remaining beastmen.

>>96065034
>still trying to twist his ESL misunderstanding by moving goalposts
God the Marshall plan was a mistake

>>96065111
>AOS didn't kill Fantasy.
Yes it did, the Warhammer world was destroyed because gw wanted to introduce fantasy marines and rewire the entire thing around them.
They could have reworked the rules, the models, the perceived limits of the worldbuilding and the business model without killing the world itself, but there was no other way to make sigmarines the center of the universe that didn't involve making a new universe around them.

>>96065166
The only misunderstanding is from your end, answer the question if you think it wasn't >>96064717

>>96065148

ok...
but then it's not AoS' fault (or even GW's fault) you might just not enjoy the game, which is fine.
But the argument >>96065111 makes still stands, no one stopped players from playing older edition; 8th was such a shitshow for me that I just stuck with 6th and went out of my way to play a game I enjoyed.

>>96065170
That's fine, but no one impeded you from playing WHFB. GW deciding that the world has ended should have literally zero bearing on what you do with your time and miniatures.

I hate "but muh SuPpOrTeD" fags so much it's unreal

>>96065103
Based

>>96065183
Retard
Pointing out how DoW work historically did not refute your point nor attack it. It simply added context. Pointing out DoW can add stuff for a good faction (including cathay) but not for all expands a topic. You freaking out over it shows a lack of insight and conptehension.
If you weren't a terminally online sperg you'd realize someone not 100% affirming your statement isn't refuting it. And if you dont want anons engaging or shifting direction dont engage on a public forum where people can do that, go to some autistic coffee time or structured social group.
Can I stop this lesson ans go back to models and you accept you're being a bitch for 0 reason? Is this concrete enough?

>>96065194
>but no one impeded you from playing WHFB
Except the discontinuation of the official support for the rules and many models did mean a reduced involvement of the community and a decreased amount of players.
These things wouldn't have happened if GW didn't kill the world, but they did.

I did keep on playing fantasy on my own, with the models I had and models I got elsewhere, but that's not going to change the fact that GW did kill the warhammer world, nor is fanfiction.
If you want to pretend gw or aos have no faults or hands for the failure of fantasy in its last days and its ultimate, then feel free to make that your fanfiction, what's actually real shouldn't touch you, would it now?

>>96065194
>its not GW's fault for killing the game to astroturf new space marine sales and the continued existence of that "game" is good actually
Retard.

>>96065170
Of all the new aos factions sigmarines are one of the easiest to write in the lore
>uhhh when sigmar ascended he started collecting the souls of faithful warriors, preparing to unleash them at the end of the world
Just turn him into fantasy not!odin with his einherjar, which is what aos does with him anyway.
I'm not saying it's good writing or anything, but if gw wanted to they could have.
Honestly with a bit of finagling most aos factions can be slotted into fantasy. Kharadrons would be one of the few exceptions.

you faggots are so fucking weak holy shit. I hope you never get your hands on mordheim you'd just make it worse.

>>96065237
>Pointing out how DoW work historically did not refute your point nor attack it.
Yes, it did, because the DoW units are inarguably redundant with the empire ones; this cope of yours to pretend you didn't butt in into a conversation you didn't even read, is only even more absurd after trying to cover yourself with completely different half baked arguments in the posts above and samefagging about them.

Just stop posting.

>>96065091
It's 100€ if you get it online, which is still too much

What’s with the smegmar faggots having a melty today? Asshurt GW completely forgot about their 10 year?

>>96065294
>redundant
With this mindset why even have armies? One dude with a spear is the same as any other dude with a spear, so everyone should just play empire.

>>96065271
That wouldn't have made them the center of the attention of the new fantasy world and GW was desperate to make them as central as marines are in 40k, if not even more so.

>>96065091
What does it even do? Shoot a couple of muskets while boss man is doing math?

>>96065317
The favored daughter does not smile upon them, their existence is meaningless and devoid of true joy.

>>96065294
Yeah this is definetly the post of an autistic sperg. If you're too retarded to read and can only get pissy when you don't understand something that's on you.
Do you play chaos by chance?

>>96065324
That's not the same mindset, different armies have separate selections of units.

>>96065324
Don't waste your time dudes clearly on the deep end of a spectrum.
>>96065330
Unironically yes, since administrators (or whatever they call their engineer eq) can ride along.

>>96065091
Retarded models with retarded prices for retarded people.

>>96065194
>or even GW's fault
Lmao

>>96065341
Wish we got kislev instead of this chink waifufag shit.

>>96065428
Another army led by a woman with women soldiers. Only its Slavic waifus rather than Chinese waifus.

Is TOW still shit after the last errata or did they actually fix it a bit? I'm thinking about making an Empire or HE army.

>>96065194
>but then it's not AoS' fault (or even GW's fault)
>(or even GW's fault)

>>96065438
its kinda boring but i've only played at a 1.5k point game with chaos warriors. My Vcount buddy is supposedly having fun though.

>>96065436
Glad you agree

>>96065436
Anyone being interested in either should be avoided anyway.

>>96065446
Its only their fault in that they kept refreshing elves and not diversifying the setting at the time. I mean they barely did anything with ogres even with them being "the new" thing in the setting.

>>96065436

>>96065438
If you didn't like it before you won't like it now, either. The changes are good but they won't change the way you play unless you're purely a waacfag.

>>96065249
fair.. but as much as AoS is shit incarnate; fantasy was discontinued because it obviously didn't meet expectations.

>>96065262
Never said that AoS was good (or bad) and its existence is only tangentially related.
Warmaster and mordheim survive to this day despite being killed off because people play them. and sicne they're set in the same universe then I guess they also "ended"; this however doesn't seem to be a problem with those who played it.
>>96065408
>>96065446
Look GW is utter shit, and they have not seen a dollar from since skullpass released, if anything I'm their worst "customer" because I do nothing but promote alternatives to their product that brings them no money.
But the point stands, if the players were really that invested they could have kept playing.
And many did all the way up to TOW release, with people playing 6th, 7th, 8th (sic!), WAP and 9th age.
Many more however stopped, and why they stopped I can't understand.
I hear/read what they say/write but it really makes no sense to me. This is not MTG with an arbitrary set rotation.
>>96065481
This is a fair argument, they could have done a lot to encourage the community and improve the setting. But going off the online discourse since AOS came out it seems like WHFB was a perfect child kidnapped by GW

>>96065438
If you thought it was shit before then no, you still won’t like it. They buffed infantry and nerfed magic but it’s still the same core 6th edition foundation.

>>96065496
>But the point stands, if the players were really that invested they could have kept playing.
They "stopped playing" because the game became dogshit you fucking retard.
Back in the day, people would refuse to buy a product as a way to signal "hey we don't like this". Instead of todays "just shut up and buy the slop even if you hate it".

>>96065472
Based Empire vs Chaos only purist

>>96065497
NTA 6th is still king, TOW is wasted opportunity for now, simple as that.

>>96065517
maybe they should have stuck with 6th. You know. what people who played the game before tow did.

>>96065546
They really should have. Changing things for the sake of change isn't always a good thing. GW should have backpedaled from 7th/8th and gone back to the way 6th did things.

>>96065546
yeah but him and most people can only play what GW endorses.


the game became shit
>became
>implying it was better before
so the options are only keep playing something I don't enjoy or not play at all
I guess they could not fathom to play a different version of a game they were already playing.
I really hope that GW implements a 3 years rotation on actual miniatures just to see these people not use their models because they're now out of rotation.

>>96065496
>fantasy was discontinued because it obviously didn't meet expectations.
And it didn't meet expectations because gw expected it to yield like 40k, while supporting it less and worse.
They basically strangled it themselves by imposing a meta unsustainable for an influx of newcomers, ever worsening rules and missing every opportunity to fix the issues to double down on them instead.

>>96065567
>I really hope that GW implements a 3 years rotation on actual miniatures just to see these people not use their models because they're now out of rotation.
So implement a set rotation like MTG has? Fucking garbage. Keep that trash out of here.

>>96065438
Infantry still sucks, magic got a bit nerfed and they capped monsters at sv3+. Empire is still a joke faction (and for nerfed with Ld10 lol). High elves got better by changing how impetous works, WL got buff as well.

>>96065472
Trvke.

>>96065472
This, I refuse to field any w*man miniatures.

>>96065544
TOW is basically 6th you fake grog

>>96065496
>It's not the fault of the people that killed Fantasy and had full control of Fantasy's design that Fantasy died, it was the fault of the costumer for not buying the retardation that was 8th edition
Do you own GW stock?

>>96065546
>maybe they should have stuck with 6th.
maybe they did and that's why the new units didn't sell, have you considered that? or are you ignoring that so you can flip your argument and attack them for not buying product and forcing the poor multimillion family company to shut down part of their shit?

>>96065496
>Warmaster and mordheim survive to this day
Warmaster is actually flourishing and is better than ever, even wiem it was still a living GW game.

>>96065628
Uh oh, GW stockholder having a melty.

>>96065546
I think 6th was even less popular than 9th or 8th despite being rated higher. Familiarity is often more important than objective stuff.

>>96065620
>exposes himself as a newcomer who just uses words he can't undetstand
Lol no

>>96065653
read better before posting

>>96065663
>I think 6th was even less popular than 9th or 8th despite being rated higher
Eh?

Man, when GW inevitably squats Age of Spacemarines the zoomers will get really obnoxious.

>>96065620
It isn't.

>>96065674
Fuck you fake grog nigger

>>96065620
.>no magic dice power pools, no magic phase at all
>no army slots
>different morale mechanics
>you can measure artillery shots
>random charge ranges
>bloated roster full of 8th/AoS gimmick shit like monsters
>AP is separate from strength
>different terrain deployment
>skirmishers work differently
>Fear works differently
>poison is different
>different base sizes
>Ethereal can't join non-Ethereal units
>S7+ does not auto kill chariots
>flee in different directions
>monstrous mounts and Herohammer meta
Yeah bro it's just like 6th!!! Faggot retard

>>96065718
You're not convincing anyone with your unused second hand book and your unused baby hands.

Also trim your nails, troglodyte.

>>96065735
>nooooo it isn’t identical
>TOW is herohammer!
No games confirmed.

>>96065687
Even tho people tend to say 6th was the best edition most post end times fantasy games were in 8th or 9th edition is what I meant. Basically people stuck with what they knew last as it was most familiar

>>96065718

>>96065788
>TOW is basically 6th
Your own words retard

>>96065790
>9th edition
What?

>>96065570
this is a very valid argument of why the game didn't perform. And I absolutely agree with it

But everyone here thinks that if the game doesn't sell and/or is not being currently being supported by the company then it's dead and long buried.

Despite the fact, as >>96065647 points out, that dead games can actually thrive despite (or because) of lack of official support.

If TOW gets discontinued today, would all these people stop playing? Will they blame GW that their overpriced miniatures are now useless? Will they shred their rulebooks and never roll a die for RnF fantasy games?

>>96065794
6th edition was only released in hardcover. Even the one in the 6th ed starter set was hardcover.

>>96065794
LMAO! zoomer who only fucking collects old books that costs pennies on the dollar got fucking owned

>>96065799
And the post prior I said the foundation is 6th edition and if he doesn’t like it then the errata wont change it because it is the same fundamental game. And no. I think tow post errata is better than 6th with the exception of a dumbed down magic phase. Morale/breaks and the flow of battle is leagues better in TOW than 6th.

>>96065816
>6th edition was only every released in hardcover
Where did all the fake grogs come from today?

>>96065816
>6th edition was only released in hardcover. Even the one in the 6th ed starter set was hardcover.
Are you retarded? You literally have a pic of a soft cover rulebook some posts up.

>>96065812
A pushed hard fan made attempt to "fix" 8th ed that initially focused on making 8th better bit ended up including everyone's fan army and including every unit ever and turned into a pile of mush with even more balance issues.

>>96065816
What anon points out is irrelevant without comparison for how popular those games would be if they were currently supported.

Do you want to argue that 40k as a game wouldn't lose part of its playerbase if gw tomorrow woke up said chaos kills everything, stopped selling the models and stopped making rules?

>>96065812
an edition made by fans for the fans

and by fans I mean tourneyfags and forum personalities

>>96065790
6th was best of the lot agreed, but WHFB as a system is flawed itself. TOW is neither a step forward it backwards but sideways, it overwrites old problems with creating new ones.
>>96065827
>I think tow post errata is better than 6th
Not really

>>96065897

As it fucking should be. Nobody wants to play a perfectly balanced, smooth game with rules that read like flat pack furniture instructions. Tourneyfags should kill themselves

TOW is fun.

>>96065903
You can have a balanced and smooth game that also isn't ridden with errors and bloat.

>>96065911
I think it gets boring after a couple games in

>>96065897
>not really
Why do you think on balance 6th is superior? I can understand viewing some aspect like magic as objectively better, but the way morale worked back then was way worse than the system we have today. Overall I think that has a much larger impact on the game overall vs magic. But if it’s something else, I am listening.

>>96065915
while having flavourful rules, meant to say.

>>96065879
>Do you want to argue that 40k as a game wouldn't lose part of its playerbase if gw tomorrow woke up said chaos kills everything, stopped selling the models and stopped making rules?
People who play/are fans of modern 40k are drooling morons anyway so...

>>96065911
TOW is arguably the best version of fantasy. Pre errata I wouldn’t have said so, post errata I think so.

>>96065879
no, of course it would lose support.
but I'd think that if people were really enjoying it as much as they claim they are; many if not most would stick with it.

But it feels like that unless players are constantly catching up on releases then they don't enjoy the actual game.
>>96065847
>>96065841
My bad, i was thinking of smaller book, not softcover. no excuse here, just misread

>>96065915
This
>>96065903
>well written balanced rules are bad
That's one of the gayest, wrongest, dumbest shit posted do far. Also you do realize that your rent free tourney waac fags operate by exploiting unbalanced and poorly written rulesets? And the better the ruleset and army lists the less grip they have?

>>96065931
>infantry are literally worse than useless since you're encouraged to sit there and do nothing
>but if you don't take them you can't hold objectives

>>96065956
...so they're not useless?

>>96065956
>infantry are worse than useless
>but if you don’t take them you can’t play objectives
Based retard

>>96065956
>infantry is useless except for fighting dragons and taking objectives!
What did he mean by this

>>96065903
>Nobody wants to play a perfectly balanced, smooth game with rules that read like flat pack furniture instructions
You no game retard that's exactly how rules should look like. Why the fuck anyone would want to deal with confusing, poorly spelled, contradictory rules?

>>96065920
>but the way morale worked back then was way worse than the system we have today
Care to explain?

>>96065965
>>96065999
A quarter of your army just standing there doing nothing hoping the enemy commits seppuku on them for some reason is bad game design.

>>96065931
>TOW is arguably the best version of fantasy
Your coping is a thing to behold.

>>96062126
Nah, the High Elves don't allow them to sail that far.

>>96065920
NTA but infantry in 6th/7th/8th was far more relevant than in TOW.

>>96062126
>the Empire could have had the largest and most powerful naval fleet in the Old World
How

>>96065897
I think to a degree yes. Having played several other systems from skirmish games to rank n flank WHFB is certainly inferior. What it does well is take several mechanics and makes them accessible to about anyone. It's like the valheim of tabletop, in that it does several things well enough for anyone to enjoy.

>>96066020
When the design of the game is to get objectives it isn't anon

>>96066044
In 8th absolutely to the point they dominated.
6th they were basically as useful now post FAQ.

>>96065911
I'm having a blast for certain, even if I'm 3-7 with wood elves. But I stick mostly to 1k pts

>>96066066
Don't know what valheim is but yeah, even 6th is hands down atrocious when compared to certain historicals or (especially) warmaster.

>>96065911
TOW is pretty fun and without a doubt the best mainline GW game now

>>96066128
subtle, but funny joke anon.

>>96066128
true actually, considering recent events, though if nukill team, nuaos, and nuhh is anything to go by we need to get ready for the worst dogshit edition ever to drop in 2026 or 2027.

>>96066133
Not meant as a joke, but I can see how a non-GW games fan could take it as such lol
Just venting about HH3e getting kneecapped really.

>>96066144
What's wrong with hh3? I didn't like hh2 in general even though it did lots of stuff great.

>>96066141
It’s so weird seeing how good the errata was relative to community concerns and then looking at HH 3.0 .

>>96066187
my assumption is that the hh and old world teams are largely competent and pasionate, but HH made too much money and causes a suit to assume direct control, and he thought, being retarded, that if they made hh more like 40k it would make more money without realizing that hh's entire market is people disenfranchized with their main product

>>96066176
They basically nuked half of people's armies and weapon/equipment options to sell them back later (for some, others will be gone forever).

>>96066089
6th edition infantry was pretty much essential in basicaly every army bar Bretonnia (obvious), HE, DE, HoC (mostly shit options). And by essential I not only mean necessary but capable of having an active role in your battle plan either offensively od defensively depending on army or playstyle. Case in point: 6th es Empire and TOW Empire.

>>96066203
>are largely competent and pasionate
>competent
Oh gawd

>>96066287
yes

>>96066317
I genuinely think the people dogging on TOW are nogames. It’s my favourite version of fantasy and I’ve been playing since 6th.

>>96066335
>criticizing TOW means you're nogames
>just shut up and play it, love it and thank Games Workshop
Imagine being incapable of understanding that people appreciate different things to you

>>96066359
Pre errata I could get the critique. Post errata and matched play you are literally no games if you’re hating on it.

>>96066287
They're the same people working on MESBG. You can tell they're stretched thin and have lots of meddling from management, because what the fuck was removing build options and conversions in MESBG.

The most recent White Dwarf said Hashut used to be a mortal. Who was he?

Ngl if people in my area played saga I’d sell my army already for a better game

>>96066377
>no-games
It's /tg/, that's the default case. Because yes, post-errata TOW with objectives is much less Cavalry hammer.

>>96066335
>I genuinely think the people dogging on TOW are nogames.
Because you're a dysfunctionally autistic retard that constantly copes because subjectivity frightens and confuses you.

>>96066381
What age though, people seem really anal about not mixing them.
>skraelings vs crusaders? No anon
>great kingdom vs pagan rus? Fuck outta here
>no anon we cannot do Irish vs Carthage what the hell is even that

>>96066377
>Post errata
Lmao no matter nie many times you sad it doesn't make it even remotely true. Errata fixed small amount of things that in no say make TOW fixed in its entirety you moron.

>>96066378
MESBG's fall was epic and brutal. Still can't gdy over it.

>>96066472
Nah, anons right. Infantry being Dragon counters and objective takers makes the game feel a lot different in the 3 matches I've played.

>>96066472
>errata fixes small things
Ask me how I know you have played no games

>>96066494
I am happy dragons got out in their place, hopping into the reply chain. I feel vindicated as I never planned to go dragon anyway.

>>96066380
>white dwarf says he was a mortal
Obviously a black dwarf

>>96066380
Some guy. Some human guy.
The first man to get a dwarf woman pregnant.
That's right, the Bull is man, and chaos dwarves half-men.

>>96066335
>I genuinely think the people dogging on TOW are nogames
Because it's your first contact with tabletop WH (of which you had completely no idea pre TWW) and have a histerical urge to defend it since it makes you feel like you belong in the cool kids club? Ok, understood.
>I’ve been playing since 6th
Tall tales from high seas. Unless you mean you've been playing with your wiener since 6th grade.

>>96066380
Some dwarf who's prank went too far.

>>96066508
Yeah they got nerfed enough to still be good, but not dominating everything. Can still swallow Cav and artillery whole, but now they have to be careful against infantry which is how it should have been.

>>96066435
Eh, can't blame them really. Immersion is important.

>>96066574
>but now they have to be careful against infantry which is how it should have been
Why?

>>96066538
You will hate anything that came out after you became a depressed adult because you are no longer capable of joy, only the memory of joy

>>96066592
That doesn't even make sense homo-anon.

So is infantry good now?

>>96066577
This is why people run Numidians Kyle.

>>96066380
the most interesting option is an important ancestor god that was deleted from all records

>>96066589
Why do they have to careful or why should it always have been like that?
For the first, challenges against champs (or single wounds characters) means they will general get 1 CR from combat and lose from static res. For the latter, the same way a human should be able to kick the shit out of one coyote but would be mobbed and killed by an entire pack of em.
>>96066631
Not as good as 8th, but definitely don't feel bad to use and legitimately useful if you play objectives (you should).

>>96066380
Hashut Johnson
he worked in Accounting

>>96066377
Nah, you're coping and not in a very creative way. TOW is still unbalanced as shit, main rules being one thing, fucking retarded point costs all over the place are still a thing.

>>96065647
>Warmaster is actually flourishing
these kind of arguments are impossible to make because people aren't talking about the same things. warmaster has good rules and people play it.
but from the point of view of a publisher or store it doesnt sell. people just download the rules, and all the minis are random 3rd party or prints. so stores wont promote it, and the masses who rely on stores to tell them what to enjoy will never hear about it. they'll play something like TOW.

>>96066701
6e was also unbalanced as shit. There were absolute stinker armies back then too.

>>96066675
So there's no overkill in challenges now? Sorry if asking dumb question I was out of the loop for some time

>>96066701
>erm bro, the old world sucks, don't you know the black coach is overcosted?

Welcome to games with points costs retard

>>96066701
TOW is way more balanced than 6th. All the core armies are competitive. Yes even wood elves.

>>96066380
A great big (or not so big) cunt of a man with a hardon for counting pig iron arrowheads.

>>96066335
>>96066538
>>96066592
>he's probably lying
>or he's not lying, has actually been playing WHFB for 30 years, and not only thinks TOW is the best version of it but somehow has also not yet discovered other games exist.
honestly I really hope it's the first. the later is almost too depressing to think about.

>>96066733
You still get overkill (so if you deal two wounds to a 1 wound character in one character's attack, you still get 2 CR) but mounts and the like don't: "‘Note that, if either participant is slain before their rival or a mount
can make an attack, those attacks are lost."

>>96063980
hello?

>>96066763
There have been rules for the cult of pleasure but unless there was a white dwarf fun list I don't think we ever had a supported like coven list for empire.

>>96066719
I was only saying that WM(R) being a dead game is riding high like no other GW game ever has for several reasons. First, 3d painting is tailor made for WM scale with arguably best WM models being made now. Second is centralised multi national rules comitee (which amazingly is recognized by the entire civilized world except some french), people who are both intelligent and experienced and do updates in a non-authoritarian asshole manner. Third is the superb ruleset itself polished throughout the years by people who actually play the game. I don't undetstand where your disagreement comes from

>>96066727
6th had only 3 stinky books with only 2 (HE, DE) entering "struggling outside monobuild" category. You're talking out of your ass kiddo

>>96066795
>being a dead game is riding high like no other GW game ever has for several reasons.
Isn't Mordheim rather comparable as a successful but Dead GW game?

>>96066823
NTA but BFG also has done well for the same reasons of 3d printing, reasonable rulesets, and people looking for familiar IP without the oppressive crush of modern GW rule/edition constantly chasing.

>>96064099
No, WE are very powerful and balanced in TOW. I'd say they are even top 5.

>>96066841
Ive had quite a lot of fun playing bfg xr, being a dead game isn't so bad if you have a small model count, but it's a lot harder to get friends to try dead mass battle games than "hey I'll print you a fleet if you want to give it a go"

>>96064422
>1.5
Kek, your really trying to make that a thing faggot

>>96066841
shame the same coulden't happen to Man O War

>>96066879

>>96066860
Do you know what internal balance means? Go spam glade guard with multiple shot arrows, eternal guard, orion, warhawks, and offensive wizards and tell me the results. Extra points for bringing mass dyrads with branchwraiths. Oh and run either AoI. Do we have good units? Yes. Is our AJ other than kindreds fixed any of our issues and added some more? Yes.
>>96066876
Same, and yes over the coof times it was easy enough to print 1500pts of a fleet and convince people to play over some beers.
Still just commenting that ironically GW games tend to do ok when GW stops meddling. Hell look how TOW did with only releases and minimal rule changes before cathay/1.5

>>96066879
>most of the community calls it 1.5
>stop trying to make it a thing!
Go back to 6.0 posting.

>>96066823
Mordheim is relevant and it's amazing, sure, but what I meant is the unifying factor of WM ruleset. Unlike WMR you have no single "edition" that is agreed upon by everyone playing Mordheim, you have dozen(s) groups in each country that play by their own houserules. Lata not forget that WM rules were already good when released while Mordheim was a mess from day one. I love the City of the Damned but og rules are terrible.

>>96066922
Sorry anon, but what can I say except: skill issue. WE are one of the best armies in TOW.

>>96066915
>thinks that errata designation = edition number
Holy shit, the absolute state of TOWers

>>96066742
>TOW is way more balanced than 6th. All the core armies are competitive. Yes even wood elves.
hahaha

>>96066915
What retards call them by their errata versions? It's assumed you're playing the latest errata unless the conversation specifies a different one.

>>96066727
Fucking moron newfag.
>>96066740
>Can't even comprehend the problem, exposes himself as a retard
Lol

>>96066970
I accept your consession anon

>another weekend of building little ratniggers lies ahead
Good times, anons

>>96067004
That's a pretty shitty argument, since you'd assume the same for any war game system. If someone in my local store says they're looking for a 40k game its gonna be assumed they're looking for the most recent one.

>>96067009
you are old and retarded

>>96067052
>you'd assume the same for any war game system.
Now that can vary depending on the game, but regarding games GW is currently producing people will expect your talking about the most recent version.

>>96067072
Right, and when you're comparing the differences in the rules it can be helpful to call them by names, such as when comparing the mid-edition update (TOW 1.5e) to launch (TOW1e).

>afraid of Alith Anar even though he still believes some dumb prophecy about being killed by a magician
>owned by Teclis in a magic duel
>got shanked by blind Eltharion and actively tries to be somewhere else when the latter is around
Why Malekith is such a bitch?

>>96067081
It's called an errata number you dumb newfag, no one ever was calling editions by errata number. Ever.

>>96067081
>when you're comparing the differences in the rules it can be helpful to call them by names
Yeah you say "the rules from before say-" and so on.
No one says, TOW 1.5e, or TOW 1e, like you're trying to point out. That's a weird autist (You) thing.

>>96067110
ok well quite literally everyone is doing it now, so get over it or kill yourself

>>96067113
>o-ok well quite literally EVERYONE is doing it now, so k-kill yourself
kekw

>>96067111
>Yeah you say "the rules from before say-" and so on.
You certainly can, but a lot of people are using 1.5e, so, uh, its down to personal choice bud. By the way, did you know that hyperfixating on things that don't matter is a sign of autism?
>>96067110
See above

>>96067113
>quite literally everyone is doing it now
Nah, only drooling, retarded faggots like you do.

>>96067120
>but a lot of people are using 1.5e
>By the way, did you know that hyperfixating on things that don't matter is a sign of autism?
You mean like what you're doing, trying, to get others to say TOW 1.5e as a normal thing?

>>96067120
>B....by the way, did you know that hyperfixating on things that don't matter is a sign of a...autism? It's not like I care of course

>>96067094
Canonically fatherless behavior.

>>96067094

Who's Malekith?

Amount of -IQ zoomies that TOW brought here is depressing.

The 2 retards arguing here:
>when referring to TOW it's edition one:
I've been playing wood elves in TOW all edition.
>when calling out specific recent changes or how things are different since the errata:
The poison changes since 1.5 have effected glade guard.
The astounding autism on display today.

>>96067139
>You mean like what you're doing, trying, to get others to say TOW 1.5e as a normal thing?
That's not hyperfixation, that's just a preference. And you might wanna google it champ; it'd definitely not something I made up.
Telling others to NOT do something significant because it sets them off though? Absolute hyperfixation.
>>96067141
I do care anon, I just want you to stop getting mad over things that don't matter. It must truly be exhausting to live like that.

>>96067128
Why do you do this? Come to the thread only to talk shit to people? Are you that unhappy?

Seriously, you just shitpost and talk trash. What's the point?

>>96067177
>And you might wanna google it champ; it'd definitely not something I made up.
uh uh.
>Absolute hyperfixation
you bet it is, take you meds my dude, you'll feel better.

>>96067152
How do we even know that Aenarion was his real father for that matter? We're talking Morathi here, it could have been anyone in Anlec for that matter.

>>96067181
>got called out for spewing nonsense
>wHy ar yOU liKe tHIs

>>96067181
It's 4chan anon, he definitely is that bitter. Best to just leave him alone and keep talking about 1.5e or whatever the topic was.

>>96067201
Exactly. Are you genuinely angry at this or just trying to stir trouble and insult people? Seems the second.

>>96066020
Anon what is it that you want infantry to do in the game?

>>96066244
Can you articulate why that is true for 6th and not true for TOW based on the rules of both systems?

>>96067094
>Alith Anar
>Eltharion
Best two HE characters.

>>96067243
Stuff.
In most games you can use infantry to fight, counter-charge, set up baits, etc. In TOW they are at best area denial tools.
The funny part is this is still an improvement over 8th edition's use of infantry.

>>96066244
Don't reply to >>96067251 or other shitposters.

>>96062608

>>96067128
I can’t believe it hasn’t been said yet but Perrynigger fuck off

>>96067286
There should definitely be some foot units with counter charge, but then again with the new changes you might be worse off unless they have high I. Otherwise they can still function as bait for sure (and area denial) and charge other infantry.

Are High Elves a good choice for the first TOW army? Are dragons/monster flyers compulsory? I was thinking about Hoeth based force, with Swordmasters, Wizards, foot fighty heroes etc. Is loremaster honour worth it?

>>96064331
>>96064340

>>96067327
No dragons aren’t compulsory but HE do have probably the best dragons. Hoeth is doable but a stronger list now would probably be Chrace with the Chracian warhost.

>>96067327
Depends.
Do you want to win?
Then no, because you have to be a cheap bastard with dragon spam.
Do you want them because the figures are cool?
Then yes, the battalion is great and you'll probably end up getting two for that true mass army feel.

>>96067327
>Are High Elves a good choice for the first TOW army
Yes
>Are dragons/monster flyers compulsory?
Still: yes + cavalry, chariots and skirmishers
>I was thinking about Hoeth based force, with Swordmasters, Wizards, foot fighty heroes etc.
Nice concept but in practice all infantry army with all infantry heroes is a very nad idea.
>Is loremaster honour worth it?
No, lvl1 wizard is shit

>>96067366
You can win in friendly matches without a dragon desu. Especially now that infantry is better with 1.5e

>>96067364
>Chracian warhost
Offtop but that is dumbest themed list GW has made so far.

>>96067416
Hold on now, Mounted Waaagh exists. That or Heralds of Darkness.

>>96067416
Chracian themed army is dope. It’s one of the coolest now fuck off perrynigger

>>96067416
I dunno wild hunt is spectacular trash
Ever wished your glade riders would derp into frontal charges in exchange for + 1 s4 no ap attack?

>>96067432
Until kislev comes it may be the only army with two-handed ranged units.
Sadly Lothern is just cooler so I can't collect a Chracian army.

>>96067214
Has anyone ever used a GM in their WHF games? Seems very abstract.

>inb4 where?

Mentioned in the Narrative section. Even in theory, seems like a good way to mess up a proper game.

>>96067385
Lvl 1 wizards are definetly not trash post errata anon, loremasters are only -1 a lvl 4 to cast.

>>96067454
Only in MESBG for narrative scenarios. It works really well actually when neither side was expecting the house to collapse nor for surprise reinforcements.

>>96067168
this thread has improved so much over the days of it being a dead game, it was literally just retards arguing about chaoswank over and over and no game discussion

>>96067472
Yeah the new play is levels 1 and 3 unless you have a specific plan with a wizard. 2s and 4s no longer auto-take

>>96067454
Unless we count WFRP and other RPGs, no.
The GM role might be explained more in whatever book will expands upon the Campaign rules that we get in the core rule book

>>96067481
>it works really well actually

Do tell. I imagine the GM taking bias over one side and ruining the game for the other. Genuinely curious.

>>96067498
you dont have the right mindset for it from the outset

>>96067449
There needs to be a HE version of that peasant vs nobleman meme for Chrace vs Lothern.

>>96067490
You still want 4’s in certain cirumstance to ensure you get the spells you need for your battle plan.

>>96067490
Yeah I find 2/4 only good when you either have a race lore with good spell (so swap a random generated one and keep signature spell ar worst) or have pts for a familiar. Otherwise it's 30pts for another dice to generate a spell, not worth it imho.

>>96067545
Oh yeah for sure, they're got appropriately nerfed so they still got a purpose, just not auto take.

>>96067498
>I imagine the GM taking bias over one side and ruining the game for the other.
Why do you think this will be the case in the first place?

>>96067498
You'd think so, but a desperate last stand or hurried fallback from a horde of orcs is rather exhilarating. You can't rely on the usual tactics and have to come up with something on the fly. Since the victory conditions are also non-standard and could be "keep this one bannerman alive" with the caveat of "you have to kill him in melee and the defenders don't break" does impact how both sides will play around.

>>96067494
The role defined as someone who tells a story, alter rules on the go or something like that. Seems a bit much or too less for a third player.

>>96067509
It's a legit concern. Look at the disasters of D&D parties.

>>96067309
>>96067432
>perrynigger

>>96067551
Overall I’m a big fan of nerfing magic in general and especially dumpstering pillar of fire fuck that spell pre nerf.

>>96067555
D&D parties but I suppose the GM wouldn't be a randomer.

>>96067556
I might just try that but how would you nominate a third player to GM or propose it to someone? Maybe it's just me but watching a TOW game or WHF in general as a third party is quite ardous.

>>96067416
Agreed.

Snob Lothern fags mad that their women lust of hard women salt of the earth Chracians and not their doughy asses.

>>96067609
It can be, so usually the GM is the person whom designed the scenario. That way no one knows about the little plot twists that were added. It also encourages more compact games since no one wants to sit there for an hour doing nothing for free.

>>96067509
Are you even adult?
>>96067555
Not him but that's a real concern. Had GM like this in my Mordheim campaign it was not fun for anyone including favoured faction(s). What we want and what we get are often two completely different things anon.

>>96067416
I blame video games for making Chrace popular.
actually not balming them at all

>>96067566
I have never had a dnd party where I felt the gm was overly favoring a player to the point the game became unfun. I think you either play with severely retarded people or are terminally filled with a childlike "t-thats not fair!!! He got a bigger cake than me!" attitude.

>>96067628
Well I'd hope to experience a GM like this rather than what >>96067655 said.

Why didn't your Mordheim group just boot him?

>>96067139
>you not bowing to me policing how you talk is a hyperfixation!!!!

>>96067734
if the entire group went along with it it was presumably quite fair/entertaining but whenever something happened that disadvantaged anon he had a melty. Many such players unfortunately

>>96067728
>severely retarded people

You've not read the countless horror stories from here with PUGs?

>>96067286
>In most games you can use infantry to fight, counter-charge, set up baits, etc. In TOW they are at best area denial tools.

Except for counter charging, you can absolutely do those in TOW with the new errata.

>>96067655
You kinda need a GM for certain scenarios like ambushes
Because if you know it's an ambush you can prepare.

>>96067545
I feel like a lore familiar is going to be way better

>>96067286
This man has never faced wardancers, chosen, or gors and it shows

>>96067734
We did. Him playing favorites wasn't obvious at first though but the more campaign progressed the more it became apparent that one side has it easier and his roleplaying the swingy and unpredictable nature of Mordheim was really one directioned.

>>96067728
>>96067743
Study in case

>>96067734
Don't replay to >>96067728 >>96067743.
You can see it's a shitposter.

>>96067771
It is but you can’t take 2 lore familiars

>>96064954

I didn't realise Andy Law was in this thread.

>>96067694
Chrace is fine, heckin tamed caterinos and akshulee shitload of WL regiments is not.

>>96067791
Well good. Better later than too late. Some people.

>>96067844
Yeah, this. It's a wonder that chracian general doesn't have an option for a manticore ride.

So now that Impetous is Ld check triggered - are Dragon Princes and Caledorian heroes back on menu?

>>96067819
mad

>>96067748
Who the fuck is playing a GMed pick up game (I assume that's what the acronym is)?

Honestly, half the 'problems' with tabletop games seem to come from people playing with randoms who are cunts. Playing a high-investment game like an RPG or a narrative wargame is like inviting people over for dinner. You should probably like them first or it's going to be fucking awful.

Remember him

>>96067950
This exactly.

>>96067954
I never forgot him

>>96067910
having Winged Lion as mount is a Cathay option(eventually) rather than a High Elf one

>>96067954
He's not even born now.

>>96068003
>now
No one cares about tow pseudo lore.

>>96068021
The anarchy is a much better era for wargaming than the reign of franz, it turns the entire empire into the border princes, aka, the peak of warhammer fantasy

could anyone please post some nice black knights or blood knight conversions, thank you.

Or other undead for that matter

>>96068035
Wrong on all accounts, IC 2500+ is superior in every way. There's barely any TOW fluff anyway and what we have so far is mostly dumb low quality hackjob. There's 0 feeling of anarchy to speak of not to mention that it you're fine with half the factions akshulee sitting TOW out lol then I don't know what to say.

>>96068102

>>96067950
>Playing a high-investment game like an RPG or a narrative wargame is like inviting people over for an orgy
Ftfy

>>96068104
nah it really isn't, every faction having the bestest most strongest most nobelest king ever who's a special character for your fights between 100 guys is lame, the empire being riven by terrible strife and factionalism and unable to keep the maurading bands even mildly in check makes for great and easy story telling on the scale of a whfb game, wizards not being codified into boring flanderized colleges is great, ect, it's just better and the only reason to disagree is being a TWW baby or a special character homo.
cathay's obviously a bit shit, but that's a given.

>>96068272
I mean TOW has only been out for 2 years as a specialist game, while I agree with your points I also think we aren't going to see a similar level of fleshing out WHFB had by the end via novels, games, and several editions of stuff. I like TOW setting as well, always hated the 15 minutes to midnight doomshit for every edition. Let chaos be the bad guy without having to be the only bad guy that matters for most. Let the good guys be able to beef in the absence of a world ending event
And then do the great war.

>>96067556
This is honestly how you should play all war games.
If this are fucked turn two, make up your own new objectives and keep going.
Like you could give up and throw in the towel or you could shift to something else like:
>kill the event general
>Keep your wizard alive
>Inflict as much damage as possible
>Avenge X unit/slight

>>96068317
>the world is hopeful, bright, noble
>then the great war happens and saps so much it basically turns everything into a 8th edition grimderp fantasy

>>96067954
He would have prevented the End Times.

>thinking of making a small force of Sudenburg askaris
>remember the empire doesn't found that colony until nearly 200 years after TOW takes place

>>96068345
>the world is hopeful, bright, noble
That's not a thing and naver was

>>96068272
>literally hates WHFB
>unironically thinks that half baked TOW knockoff is better
I don't know GW cocksuckers are capable of such extensive mental gymnastics

The of world is a better setting than fantasy battle desu

>>96068408
Just say they got marooned and were dropped off in Marienburg or somewhere by high elves. Given Cathay, the new world are both known while colonies would be unlikely or formal trade not through elven mediators not noted, you can headcanon it and justify it

>>96068632
I can see a small force of mercenary musketeers.

>>96068408
You still have the cruade in Araby.

>>96069156
From a thousand years ago?

Any good STLs for wood elves?

>>96063701
>No magic items
>No (FREE!) BSB
>No knightly virtues

Did you Google how to make a Bretonnian Army with no soul?
You've got bigger problems than 33 points anon.

>>96069552
>NO magic items
sovl. All items verge on named faggotry and dont even offer any flavor.
>No (FREE!) BSB
There should be 1, and only one in an army, yeah.
>No knightly virtues
Maybe his army is filled with nothing but wusses.

What army does a fellow thug shaker play

>>96069653
>>96069653
>>96069653
>>96069653
New

>>96066380
Ancestor god of the forge who went mad and became obsessed with crafting the perfect weapons and machinery at any cost

>>96069178
Well it was 750/800 prior to TOW era indeed but the Knights Panther are still there too.