How does magic schooling work in your setting? Apprenticeships or magic universities?

>>96106229 (OP)
Academia is riddled with a disenchantment narrative, so open, public academies of magic aren’t a thing. It’s hidden and obscure *within* academia itself. Certain professors dabble, and they might favour some students, sharing in their secrets.

What is open and accepted often isn’t magic. What is isolated and hidden and conducted behind closed doors is magic.

>>96106239
>Academia is riddled with a disenchantment narrative
This. Nerds are annoying. “Heh, that’s not magic. It’s just nature!”. “Well if you don’t consider nature to be magical then you don’t actually love nature, do you?”. “Shut up scumbag. Everything is voting and grey!”. “Keep coping and keep being unable to confront a force of beauty without your amygdala freaking out, I guess.”.

The real magic was the friends you made along the way.

>>96106229 (OP)
Sort of apprenticeships?
Being able to cast any magic at all requires being able to perform a ritual to destroy a part of your own soul first, which can easily go very wrong.
Sorcerers who have already succeeded at the ritual sometimes do teach it to others, but it requires considerable investment for possibly little benefit, so these mentor sorcerers are very selective, so that potential apprentices are only those who actually have chances to succeed at the ritual (determined, intelligent) but are also useful enough for the mentor sorcerer.

>>96106229 (OP)
You first.

>>96106405
Why are you talking to yourself?

>>96106405
There are both magic universities and archwizards who take on apprentices to pass on their philosophy.

>>96106229 (OP)
apprenticeship-cum-marriages

>>96106229 (OP)
Traditionally, apprenticeships. Sorcery isn't effectively taught to large groups at once, as the shape of each prospective student's soul is different, thus the steps necessary to manipulate magic in a certain way vary from person to person. Necromancy (separate from sorcery) requires a connection to the dead, and the spiritual fetters are typically either a bloodline or a particular mentality; in either case, those traits are rare enough to make teaching large groups of necromancers impractical, ignoring the fact that trying to conjure up the same spirit simultaneously to different masters simply doesn't work.

>>96106613
Wh-what does this mean?

>>96106675
Cum is Latin for "with", so it's an apprenticeship that doubles as a marriage.
They also share cum with each other during and between lessons.

>>96106239
>>96106266
First posts best posts
Magic schools need more tact

>>96106239
Keep it mysterious and occult. Make the school a mystery school. Make them look weird to other schools.

>>96106229 (OP)
Basic aspects of using psychic powers are taught in grade school a number of organizations and professions will begin scouting potential candidates.

People are conditioned as children to accept being funneled into job roles if their psychic apitutde leans that way due to the hefty financial compensation and social status it brings. People who don't measure up often get shifted into Auxiliary and support functions that are still important.

This system exists because they are often called upon to go into a dangerous space to access special materials as well as the possibility of permanent Human presence in the space.

>>96106229 (OP)
It works more like a mystical eastern religious esoteric tradition than scholarly research. Scholars in my setting study history, mathematics and philosophy, there is some overlap between philosophy and magic but it’s not inherently the same thing.

>>96106772
If all apprenticeships are marriages, then how do once-students become masters to pass on their knowledge? Are all magic teachers also widows/widowers? Are divorces or polycules involved?

>>96106801
This too. I like how in Game of Thrones the Maesters organization is for the most part an organization of the learned, but it still has its kooks who dabble in taboo or arcane matters. Whether they see it as a form of magic is irrelevant when viewers see them as indistinguishably wizardly.

>>96106229 (OP)
Depends. Most forms of magic don't exactly have clout or much respect from non-practitioners, so they get by on apprenticeships, passed down in families, or rarely taught to select children who learn only the basics and must work out the rest of the secrets themselves or develop a new form of it. But the ones that do find favor, like say a particularly potent/regarded mage in service to the royal family may get the chance to expand their craft and research of it to a dedicated team of apprentices, and at the highest regard may be allowed to open a school that studies and teaches their particular form of magic to spread it across the kingdom. So far it's only happened a few times, like with arithmancy, cleromancy, cartomancy and astrology, though there are some that are becoming more well-known through the countryside by more secretive practitioners via word of mouth.

>>96106229 (OP)
>How does magic schooling work in your setting?
You go to school and learn to cast spells.
>Apprenticeships or magic universities?
Both. Magic universities are in all countries, with some being very, very old. Each has a unique focus on spellcraft, such as the Clockwork Cathedral where they focus on the sciences and magecraft of clockwork and constructs or the Venicaan College of Medicaments and Chirurgery which focuses on advancing the curative sciences and magic.

Apprenticeships are generally simple affairs but offer lesser educations, often leading to mages who only learn the ways their master cast and often lacking in broader theories of spellcraft and magic. It can be quite expensive to send your children off to learn proper magecraft at a university, so most small towns prefer apprenticeships to the local mage or priest.

>>96106786
More like idiocy and bullshit from a known samefag and troll desperate to force everyone into a retarded idea of how magic should be.

>>96106229 (OP)
>AI slop

https://www.reddit.com/r/ImaginaryCharacters/comments/1m1li2z/phineas_gavran_wizard_apprentice_by_dennis/
>puckee thread

>>96107289
>More like idiocy and bullshit from a known samefag and troll desperate to force everyone into a retarded idea of how magic should be.
Obsessed much, faggot?

>>96107476
>crossposting shit from reddit the moment it drops
This has become somewhat of an obsession for you guys huh?

>>96106229 (OP)
>>96106405
>>96106613
>>96106675
>>96106786
Stop spamming your garbage commissions on /tg/ with your worthless fake questions, then samefagging when no one replies, you fucking troon.
>>96107476
puck the cuck won't stop until the mods perma him.

>>96106575
Many of the archwizards who take apprentices are or used to professors at these magic universities.

>>96106229 (OP)
What do you consider schooling?
Acolytes of a reclusive mystic who develop their transcendental enlightenment through intensive and constant silent meditation for decades?

>>96108340
I guess buddhist monks do a sort of schooling.

>>96108349
I'm trying to get an actual meaning for schooling. Because if you just distort and stretch the term to mean learning or developing in any way or style or manner in any environment by any means whatsoever... then what's even the point of asking the question?

And after you think about that for a minute, we can begin to talk about the foundations of your conceptualization of magic as something that just assumes a need or use for schooling... or even as something teachable or learnable in the first place.

>>96108449
The wizard form of magic is at least teachable or learnable in some way. Not like natural bloodline sorcery magic etc. (If you're playing D&D or PF)

>>96108462
So you admit that you were thinking about D&D specifically. Which means this entire thread is pointless because all of this shit is already explicitly explained and described in great detail in D&D source books.

A thread died for this.

>>96108584
Huh? Is it? I meant for specific settings not FR.

>>96106239
Like the occult?

No magic schools. My setting is a low population points of light sword and sorcery world.
You find spells by acquiring it from another magic user or finding forgotten tomes in ruins.
Players can freely share spells with each other, but that's how you attract warlocks and such who will learn from you then kill you so keep the knowledge for themselves. You are a lot less afraid of fireballs when you're the only one who can cast it.

Magic schooling has nothing to do with my games, so I generally don't think about how it works.

>>96106229 (OP)
It doesn't. Pick up a tome and figure that shit out yourself

>>96106229 (OP)
Go ask worldbuilding general.

>>96106405
>>96106229 (OP)
Who would make a better party member?

>>96106229 (OP)
A bit of both. While there are magical universities and academies to become wizards while most people learn from apprenticeships. Often the most skilled apprentices or those of noble birth tend to go to the magical academies. The rest tend to serve as an assistant to a wizard before going as their own as a magician or mage.

>>96110621
So like Ivy league?

Traditional games?

>>96110826
Pretty much. Though, a Wizard, (someone who graduated from a university,) and a mage are mostly the same and most use the terms interchangeably. Though easier to find jobs and standing when you can back your skills with a university. (Or a circle/noble/etc.)

>>96108011
he's either a janny or fucking the jannies. Calling it out gives out bans.

It is occult and arcanum. Secret knowledge passed down from a master to a disciple through generations. No schools, nothing official about it.
There are tietäjät and noidat, but also velhot and myrrysmiehet. All of them trust in the power of song and poetry. Like the blind poet Homer or Greek warrior-poets. Like Väinämöinen or Bragi Odinsson.

>>96106229 (OP)
It's the bell curve meme, just like real life education.
Magical retards and giga-geniuses get apprenticed according to their respective skills. Magical midwits go to magic university, take the standard classes, then go into low level government or take a clerical position with the guilds.

If magic isn’t occult or arcane then it’s not actually magic it’s just a trademarked name brand.

Magic is extremely rare in my world. Potions and monsters are powered with the small amount of magic in the environment, crafted together by common folk. To become a wizard, you would have to be trained by one of the few wizards in the world. Cha casters just have natural talent, Divine is gifted by the gods.

>>96106229 (OP)
Most magic is seen as taboo, the basic stuff is ok in certain places, but you can't be using it everywhere, so, no such thing as universities. Here are your options:
- Your family might already know some tricks and might be able to teach you some stuff, however its usually very basic stuff
- You can pay someone to teach you, however that's seen as shameful and there is no guarantee that they will actually be able to teach you what they know
- You can join the army as they are formally taught and given permission to use it more freely even within civilian zones in certain situations
- You can join the army and then become a researcher, you will get to learn the craziest aspects of magic, however you can't be using it freely
- You can sell your soul to an entity, however their powers are usually very specific to something
- You can join the army to learn as much as possible and then desert to join one of the rebel factions that will offer you some protection, however expect tons of backstabbing attempts and, of course, to be hunt down by the army
- Get lucky and have an mental, physical or spiritual awakening

>>96106229 (OP)
Ars magica. It's the whole goddam thing. Aprenticeship. Guild. The order of fucking hermes, hedge magic, fey doing fey shit. Deep eldrich unknowns willing to make trades that no mortal can understand.

>>96106229 (OP)
It's a gimmick for nobles. The empire was founded by mages and nobles are legitimized by being spellcasters, but in reality magic is hard, boring, dangerous and expensive; so nobles learn a few cantrips and fuck off to parties or poetry classes. The "real" mages are either talented commoners who marry into royalty and bootstrap into it or murderhobos who speedrun leveling by bartering with demons and digging up artifacts, aka the PCs.

>>96113341
So you would say apprenticeship method? Like Merlin and Morgana?

>>96114055
Sounds lame.
>murderhobos who speedrun leveling (...) aka the PCs.
Sounds SUPER lame.

>>96111631
>Magical midwits go to magic university, take the standard classes, then go into low level government or take a clerical position with the guilds.
Kek

>>96110120
Trick question, they are the same person. Reversing sex is the most basic of transformation magics, something you learn as a stepping stone to more complicated transformations like turning into an animal or something.

>>96106229 (OP)
Apprenticeship to a bound demon or other magical spirit who has a magical contract forcing them to teach you what they know. Each such spirit is guarded by keepers who teach what they can to mortal students and make sure that the rituals binding the entity are not broken, but humans can at best pass down basic cantrips with traditional teaching methods. You can't really understand magic without glimpsing the realms beyond this world, and you can't do that without the help a being native to those higher planes. Not without a catastrophically high failure rate, at least.

>>96116492
>Reversing sex
they're both girls, one just has bigger boobs and is prettier

>>96116665
I would fuck both

>>96106229 (OP)
Both, depending on where you are. In the campaign's main city there's separate academies for Wizardry/Artifice, Witchcraft/Druidism, and Necromancy/Exorcism, with often the best way to advance in all of them is to catch a professor's attention and obtain an apprenticeship parallel to your academic education.

Study for a master of magic never really stops though, so plenty end up apprenticing at the Magus Spires after finishing their primary academic education, paying for the wisdom of elder mages using the labor they can perform with now baseline arcane education.

>>96106239
Anon thats just real life.

>>96106229 (OP)
There aren't any, magic should be rare and mysterious and not something so mundane you can just go to school for it.

>>96115936
It's either this, training times occupying a large chunk of lifespan, or a gaping chasm between system and setting.

>>96120514
Hard to write a game for that.

>>96121432
sucks that you have zero creativity.

>>96120482
And yet, academics refuse to look at it that way. Physicists are in denial of the magic all around them.

“Gravity is borderline magic. We don’t know much about it.”
“Shut up. It’s not magic.”
“If you don’t consider nature magical then you don’t actually love nature, or science, do you? There’s still mystery and wonder out there.”
“Go fuck yourself.”
“Cope.”

>>96121530
Have you truly never stopped to consider that the word "magic" has a wide range of definitions not synonymous with "wonder" and maybe phycisists don't want to associate their work with those other meanings?

>>96121963
Have you truly never stopped to wonder what goes into the recipe that cooks up religion and magic and superstition? The ingredients that lead up to accusations of hocus pocus? What makes something to be supernatural? You never think this?

You are not on my level.

>>96122046
True, most people get past the tutorial.

>>96122046
>You are not on my level.
Yes, I'm far above your grasp of linguistics because I don't shoehorn monist materialist reductivism into my escapist fiction.

>>96122852
>it’s the immaterialist
Fucking Luddite.
>>>/sci/16724654
>>>/sci/16724658

>>96123012
Operative term:
>into my escapist fiction.

And no, "materialism" has a very specific definition that all things are made of matter. It is actively disproven in modern physics by all the massless energy fields littering the equations.

>>96122852
>continues saying he’s better at linguistics and semantics
>keeps failing linguistics and semantics
What did he mean by this I wonder.

>>96123088
>It is actively disproven in modern physics by all the massless energy fields littering the equations.

You are actually r brain dead if you think light isn’t there. There are examples of massless particles you horrendous idiot. Yes they’re there.

I’m not even that guy you’re just a fucking moron. You should do yourself a favour and stop posting. But of course you will, because you have genuine ego rot.

>>96122046
>You never think this?
No, cause I have better things to think about, like actually playing tabletop games instead of shitposting where nobody asked

>>96123088
Is matter made of anything with mass or anything that matters?

I don’t think you realize how dangerous semantics is to science.

Have an example:

Math and science are as inseparable as science and art, or art and math.

Some argue that math is the purest science of all, TOO pure to be a science, even.

“One plus one always equals two. Always.”
“Okay, show me your theory for that.”
“What?”
“What?”

Whether you consider math to be science is irrelevant. It still works. It’s inseparable. It IS the language of science. Everything.

But we can get more annoying:

Google Search: “Matter without mass?”
Google Answer: “Yes, retard. Photons.”

Google Search: “Is light matter?”
Google Answer: “No, retard. Light 0 mass!”

Semantics is the literal bane of all scientific discussion and inquiry, and you are no longer talking about science. You are arguing about something else.

>>96123222
>Google Search: “Matter without mass?”
>Google Answer: “Yes, retard. Photons.”
>Google Search: “Is light matter?”
>Google Answer: “No, retard. Light 0 mass!”
This shit pisses me off to no end.

>>96123222
Science is numerous things.

- a method to apply
- a community consensus
- a base of information
- nature/physics as it is

>>96123088
Materialism isnt about things you can touch. We aren’t actually touching anything, technically speaking.

>>96123101
Demonstrate you know better by explaining how it's grammatically valid to replace a noun meaning with an adverb or adjective meaning.

>>96123141
But electric and magnetic fields are not made of particles, massless or otherwise. They occasionally produce particles for certain interactions, but are not required to to have an effect.

>>96123222
>Is matter made of anything with mass or anything that matters?
Has to be things of substance in a manner we would now call having "mass" for the arguments that established it to remain legible. This in turn necessitates the hair-splitting shift to "physicalism" in modern science.

>I don’t think you realize how dangerous semantics is to science.
It's not dangerous, it's required, because jargon is a thing.

>>96123757
I didn't say it was about "things you can touch" and the technicalities of atomic electron orbit repulsion have nothing to do with the early modern philosophy I demand your definitions back-test to.

>>96123868
>But electric and magnetic fields are not made of particles, massless or otherwise
Doesn’t matter. They’re still there. They still have a makeup. They’re present. They’re real.

>It's not dangerous, it's required, because jargon is a thing.
It’s required to a point, and the most brilliant and famous scientists were jargon. You think they didn’t wage word warfare? You’re insane.

>>96124620
>Doesn’t matter.
Yes it does, for the sake of the foundational literature remaining legible. It does not matter what you try to force "materialism" to cover the exact things it was defined to exclude, I will not accept anything that breaks the chain of reasoning necessary to reach modern science.

>It’s required to a point
It's required extensively precisely because of what you call "word warfare". Natural language is insufficiently precise for scientific use.

>>96124703
>Yes it does
No. It doesn’t. Physics deals with what is real, and observable. Electric and magnetic fields are real and present and visible using math.

You’re being pretentious now. Like, you’re sort of an idiot.

>>96124775
It’s the epistemology fag who can’t cope with the fact that scientism is the winning side.

>>96124797
Epistemology? It’s kind of hard to argue that there’s a better alternative to science lol. Like, any other sort of epidemiological idea still takes place within spacetime, or causality. Science is inseparable from all. By default anything that exists will have a background to it. Science. If anything has a happening to it, it’s science, causality.

Come on, if you're going to keep bumping a thread with inane discussions, at least don't do it in a fuckee thread.

>>96124857
The different forms of cancer are having tumor babies with one another

>>96124902
Hot. Let it continue. For science.

>>96124820
In my world, magic is just basically a form of technology not fully understood. Because it's all nanobots in the air from a long dead civilization.

>>96124935
That’s fine. That’s even expected. I like you.

Consider that 99.99% of magic systems in fiction can be chalked up to sufficiently advanced technology indistinguishable from nature. Why? Magic is always far too convenient or far too constructed for the sake of the narrative or world. It’s all artificially considerate, or considered, by the author. The variables and parameters are just too much. It’s too machine like.

Fantasy is more advanced than science fiction proper. The more advanced and sophisticated something is, the smaller it becomes. Computers once took up whole rooms. What if technology eventually becomes indistinguishable from nature? What happens when nature takes shape in ways evolution wouldn’t originally allow for? What if evolution -wasn’t- a blind idiot and didn’t cause evolutionary dead ends or bottlenecks? What if nature responded to your actions? What if it entertained religion? Human sacrifice?

Consider that AI is much less complex than biological life and can still absolutely wreck the best humans at chess. Extend it to hypothetically biologically supported technology and you’ve just created a true fucking monster.

Spells have always looked and behaved like AI to me. Life. Magic is Alive.

>>96124965
Screencapping this post for later

>>96124965

>>96125015
>>96125042
Duality of man

>>96124775
>No. It doesn’t. Physics deals with what is real
But we're not talking physics, we're talking the existential philosophy position of Materialism, the moved-on-from premise of science as we know it.

>>96124820
>It’s kind of hard to argue that there’s a better alternative to science lol.
It's trivial to argue there are things outside science when you're not a totalizing midwit insisting on ignoring where ideas come from and how the professionals relate them.

>>96124965
Only if you have a functionally psychotic insistence upon our rules of reality in counterfactuals deliberately constructed to follow what was disproven.

>>96125138
I’m blocking you. Blocked.

I like to imagine college students in fantasy as kind of budding and out of their depth like IRL.

>>96106229 (OP)
Been trying to find a group to run this with:
Magic is common enough for a single school of magic to exist, for lack of a better name, I call it Hogwarts on steroids.
The place is mostly a way to pool wizard's political power so they don't get wrecked by other factions or murdered on the cradle
They also bleed out the nobility out of money teaching children simple spells and try to raise them to be more respectful of the Academy than any King
The teachers are a bunch of borderline sociopathic geezers: each one thinks they are borderline inmortal and untouchable, unwilling to let go of their seats, they are in no hurry of getting shoved off by the next generation, making the place extremely dangerous, most students don't graduate and those that do are scarred or have the personality of a 4chan user
So I just need a party willing to be mostly magic users
>squishy, bound to die by the dozen, magic users

>>96127619
Look up "The Warrior's Heir," part of a great trilogy. The way wizards are trained in their world is a great take on "Secret, but strong enough to nuke a city."

>>96113341
Isn't all magic arcane?

>>96126506
>Fantasy is just the IRL world with minimal reskinning
Boring

How would you write a setting where you start and end with 1 on 1 teaching but with a period of schooling in the middle

>>96129091
I would do something along the lines of a gifted apprentice that is sent to a academy to have access to tools that are hard to get on their own and maybe find other Master to learn skills their current master isn't good at and maybe get scouted by groups and nations.

>>96128973
Not if the writers are stupid

>>96128973
I think the problem is that Zoomers are illiterate so they don't actually know what the fuck the term "arcane" even means. To them it just means "magic". Which is not what it means. At all.

Arcane means old and obscure. Like in the way that an antique gadget for fastening the buttons of your shoes is weird and forgotten now because shoes no longer have dozens of buttons all the way up your calf. Or in the way that wig powder isn't really a thing because people don't just wear wigs by default in their everyday costume. It's old and obscure and forgotten aspects of a time now lost to history. That's what arcane means.

And no, it is not synonymous with "eldritch". Eldritch means weird and unnatural in the way that a fever-induced hallucination has an aura of disturbing surreality to it. Contact with some experience that is incompatible with reality is eldritch - it inspires a disquieting sense that your lived experience is incomplete and cannot construct meaning within an evidently greater and more fundamental truth.

Misuing the term "arcane" is part of why there's so many misunderstandings surrounding the foundations of fantasy in particular in gaming spaces.

>>96126506

>>96131149
>Zoomers
it's not a generational thing, there are illiterate retards in all generations.
a related example could be how "mancy" has been used to turn anything into a type of magic, when it meant "divination", so even using "necromancy" for creating animated slaves out of corpses/skellies is dumb.

>>96131149
It's the classic living tongue languages often change the meanings of their words or forget what they could mean due to memes.
>>96131179
You not wrong. This isn't a Zoomers thing and Boomers are just as bad at this shit. Hell they might be worse since at least most of the zoomers keep track of why things are the way they are with "know your meme" and all. Where many of the boomers memes and changes are badly explained if at all losing the joke or reference if not changed just to push some agenda.

>>96131149
>Arcane means old and obscure.
The issue you note is largely resolved simply by replacing "and" with "or", as the association with magic revolves around some degree of priviledged knowledge distinguished from "occult" by being fine for "mere" ivory-tower effect instead of being hidden away in some manner of secret society.

Can a magic uni have a sort of Hogwarts “Arcane” feel to it?

>>96106307
This

>>96128973
>Isn't all magic arcane?
Depends on what you mean by arcane.
If you mean secret, obscure, esoteric knowledge, then maybe, but that depends on whether the magic and spellcraft is secret, obscure, or esoteric.
There are other meanings of the term, such as D&D's jargonized version denoting magic that isn't divine or Pathfinder 2es Matter+Mind Essence spellcraft tradition.

In some settings it may be esoteric but not secret or obscure. And depending on system there may be other magical traditions that are not Arcane or arcane.

The problem with people who complain about D&Ds arcane magic is that they are idiots who do not understand jargon or that there may be specific definitions that do not match the colloquial definition in specific areas, much like how creationists confuse theory and the scientific definition of theory. What I'm saying is that there are idiots like creationists here but for magic and game settings.

Basically, language evolves and is not static. Pissing and whinging about -mancy moving on from divination to denoting magical schools or arcane evolving into other meanings besides esoteric, obscure, or secret or other terms being "misused" in games and fantasy writing is just severe autism and/or idiocy.

>>96134905
It's not a bad thing in theory but every time I've seen arcane used as some form of magic it's always the kind of shitty incestous fantasy settings that's only inspired by other modern fantasy, like Warcraft. Even worse if it's represented as some form of glowy purple or blue energy. You can tell the writer has never had an original thought in their life and they're not even stealing from the good stuff.

>>96131149
>Arcane means old and obscure.
>It's old and obscure and forgotten aspects of a time now lost to history. That's what arcane means.
It doesn’t necessarily imply old, although age can reinforce it. It just means hidden and obscure and out of your initiation.

>And no, it is not synonymous with "eldritch"
Depends on what you mean by eldritch. If it is weird or sinister then it’s not understood well enough and thus occult, another word for obscurity, like esoteric. The supernatural is occult by default as it implies a vital lack of understanding.

>Eldritch means weird and unnatural in the way that a fever-induced hallucination has an aura of disturbing surreality to it
It has nothing to do with madness or hallucinating, in fact. Seeing tentacles isn’t “Lovecraftian” either.

>>96131149
>Contact with some experience that is incompatible with reality is eldritch - it inspires a disquieting sense that your lived experience is incomplete and cannot construct meaning within an evidently greater and more fundamental truth.
Some would describe this as esoteric, or even an afterthought of mysticism. This incompatibility is personal, not reality. It’s confronting yourself.

>>96134905
>The problem with people who complain about D&Ds arcane magic is that they are idiots who do not understand jargon or that there may be specific definitions that do not match the colloquial definition in specific areas

This is pure cope. If I see shit like Magus being used to refer to battle-mages like in Pathfinder I WILL point out how retarded it is, sorry. That setting is also connected to the real world btw, and Baba Yaga is a real character. Everyone speaks English.

Also, you CAN interpret D&D’s Arcane as something denoting mystery—at least in settings like the Forgotten Realms, where Mystra’s favor is tied to pushing the limits of magic, discovering new or lost spells, etc.

But, all fiction can be chalked up to being sourced to beyond the fourth wall, and all its linguistical (this isn’t a word) influences, no matter how much it makes nerds want to cry, or piss and shit their pants, or try to spin words differently.

Then again I’m quite biased, and I’m all for words like “magic” being loose or soft descriptions of things, without clear or without-irony definitions, but some words you just don’t tamper with.

I guess I’m criticizing peoples ideas for being stupid, or sensational, superficial, etc, rather than sensible. “It sounded cool so I used the word without thinking on it much…”. Yeah, fuck you.

Arcane means understood by few; mysterious or secret. It overlaps with the occult, the esoteric, but also mysticism.

>>96134905
>Basically, language evolves and is not static. Pissing and whinging about -mancy moving on from divination to denoting magical schools or arcane evolving into other meanings besides esoteric, obscure, or secret or other terms being "misused" in games and fantasy writing is just severe autism and/or idiocy.

Kind of hard to avoid criticism when most fictions are heavily modelled after the western, English mindset, and dictionary influences being Western/English.

Sure, you’re free to rape words, but don’t be mad if someone gets upset.

If your fantasy setting involves primarily English speakers, even the fictional races or exotic ethnicities, then I’m allowed to be a picky bitch. That level of silliness is obviously being injected into the wordplay as well. I’m not having it.

>>96131149
Nice post anon, probable wouldn't be able to put it in words like you did

>>96133622
In Hogwarts case the arcane comes from the magical society itself being concealed by wizards, someone ran the numbers and the wixen to muggle population ratio was minuscule, specialized knowledge within the society also looked to be secrets within secrets

>>96135281
>That setting is also connected to the real world btw,
Yes I know, I played Die Rapsutin, Die!.
>and Baba Yaga is a real character.
Yes I know, shes from ancient Russia, taught spellcraft by a Norn.
>Everyone speaks English.
Nope. The Devs have said that its explicitly not English.
Common is a Taldan-based trade language, at least in Avistan and surrounding regions. In Tian Xia Common is Tien, the language of the notChina Empire that broke apart. In Garund its Mwangi. In certain APs, such as Blood Lords, its Osiriani or another local language.

>but some words you just don’t tamper with.
Unfortunately for you there are no words that cannot be tampered with. There will be new definitions and alterations, like literally becoming an intensifier or even an antonym of itself instead of meaning exact or literal. Arcane has long had another meaning in D&D and other ttrpgs and has solidified a new definition meaning a certain style of magic and spellcraft.

>If I see shit like Magus being used to refer to battle-mages like in Pathfinder I WILL point out how retarded it is
And I don't care how buttmad you get about the name, it now also refers to a specific style of spell sword and not just Zoroastrian priests. Besides that, zoroastrian priests don't exist on Golarion, so using a name that happens to be similar is perfectly fine. At least for myself, I dont pronounce them the same anyway, Mag-us for the priests and Maj-us for the class.

>>96135344
>but don’t be mad if someone gets upset.
I dont get mad, I just dismiss them as retards or autists. I don't really give a shit if your mad about people not using the words in a prescriptivist way. For me, its just another definition among many. But I understand that sometimes people have lower IQs or are ESL and need singular simple definitions for words, despite many having multiple and sometimes being contradictory.

>>96135597
>Nope. The Devs have said that its explicitly not English.
And yet it's English.

>>96135609
It's presented as English as a translation convention from in-setting to out-of-universe. The proper angle to argue is not that the words are literally English, but that the authors should insist the English description be an accurate translation of the under-specified in-universe terminology.

At a certain point the counterfactual elements of the setting demand some degree of jargon use of real English for lack of a true phenomenon to refer to the terminology of as with the Arcane/Divine categorization of spellcasting, but these should be minimized, carefully considered, and noted to avoid misunderstandings.

>>96135609
Are you retarded or just being intentionally obtuse.
Of course the fucking game is in English, its played by and written by fucking Americans, who speak English. The Lord of the Rings is in English but Tolkien has literally stated that none of them spoke English. The same is true of the Forgotten Realms, with Elminster translating everything for Greenwood to publish it in English.

>>96135663
>>96135669
I guarantee you, had Netflix picked up an animated Pathfinder special, everyone would be speaking English in-setting. Prooobably.

>>96135685
>everyone would be speaking English in-setting
You are retarded then. Its a major conceit and a point of suspension of disbelief that all the big fantasy settings are using languages that do not exist on Earth and that what we read or hear is a translation. I get that your unable to conceive of this beyond your own limited surface understanding, but you must remember, youre a sub 80 IQ retard and everyone else isn't.

>>96135685
You appear to have a poor grasp of how the fiction boundary works. Simply getting ahold of appropriate foreign language speaking actors is difficult, and even attempting conlangs for the "true" in-setting speech is nonsense to the incredibly vast majority of projects.

There is a SLIGHT chance that neural network voice generators can fulfil the former, but the latter is decidedly out-of-scope of any LLM paradigm.

>>96135712
>>96135719
Admit it. You live in an English dominate world.

>>96135920
...And? Doesn't change that it's merely a translation convention for fictional other-worlds to be portrayed with it than its use being the literal in-setting case.

>wonderfaggot and puckee in the same thread
What a treat!

>>96135554
>In Hogwarts case the arcane comes from the magical society itself being concealed by wizards, someone ran the numbers and the wixen to muggle population ratio was minuscule, specialized knowledge within the society also looked to be secrets within secrets
That makes sense honestly

>>96135712
>I get that your
you’re*

>everyone speaks English!
>no it’s just for ease of storytelling
Nah it’s just lazy

>jargon
>monist
>epistemology
>games?
Oh god it’s this retard ruining the board again

>>96108011
>until the mods perma him
He sucks mod cock, never gonna happen.

>>96138046
Conlangs are not a remotely reasonable expectation.

>>96138266
>includes "game?" in "ruining the board" list
Revealing yourself for far worse retard.

>>96106229 (OP)
By decree of the King the astrologer academy must seek talented people to guide in the path of stargazing. The academy, directed by the arch magus must test their students loyalty to the crown if they wish to advance their studies, those they are forced the adventuring in name of the crown.

They can rank up through the academy if they wish, but it becomes more political as many academics wish to travel the world to further their studies, but the by ruling of the fifth arch magus sigismund learning too much is a danger to society and using the technology of more advanced civilizations could doom the world.

The academy is further divided by the dogmatics who only see gnosism through the stars, the sigismund followers who study gravity magic and the hereticals who study otherworldy magic.

>>96138266
I like to think there are several retards ruining the board.

>>96139965
This is cool

>>96138266
might just be fuckee imitating other posters' style to bump his shitty thread.
just look at this >>96106405

>>96140638
That’s the most schizo shit I’ve read all day

>>96122046
This anon is Hermeticpilled. Based.

>>96141731
Stop responding to yourself wonderfag.

>>96143299
Stop calling everyone who knows the recipe to magic wonderfag, wonderfagfag.

Bump,

>>96109749
no

>>96106328
>Being able to cast any magic at all requires being able to perform a ritual to destroy a part of your own soul first
How did the first magician figure that out? He presumably invented the ritual in a world where nobody had ever done magic, so what was he even attempting to do?

>>96116492
>Reversing sex
Is that when the girl puts her vagina inside the boy's penis?

>>96121530
Every single academic that isn't a pop scientist that talks to the unwashed masses is either a deeply spiritual person or an active worshipper of an existing religion. LITERALLY no atheists.

Likewise, Gnostics don't hate nature. Some aspects of nature, like the beauty found in it, or the cooperation across species is the sparks of the divine "bleeding through" the trap of Yaldabaoth. A Gnostic knows that if the demiurge were toppled, the whole world would be as beautiful as that.

>>96153645
Yeah but seeing nature and existence as something divine or godlike is a downright heretical stance. "Haha he believes in a floating spaghetti monster". "I never said that". "Haha yes you did".

>>96153895
What the fuck? No it isn't. Who are you even quoting?

>>96154227
Lol. I once said to an old professor of mine: “if you don’t see nature as divine or magical then you don’t truly love or value nature or science, do you?”, and he lost it on me big time. Not my fault the sad old man can’t see the surviving wonder and beauty and mystery, and thus magic, in life.

>>96154278
Why are they like this?

>>96153645
God, you're dumb.

>>96154278
>>96154287
I'll take "Things That Didn't Happen" for 500, samefag.

>>96154287
Atheism mostly. They cannot see a force of beauty it gives them a sort of cognitive dissonance so their amygdala freaks out.

>>96154298
stfu fatty, you've never seen a vagoo irl

>>96153645
>Likewise, Gnostics don't hate nature.
Yes they do.

>>96154311
nope

>>96154334
You don’t know what Gnosticism is, then.

>>96154381
A) Considering I'm a Gnostic that's unlikely
B) Which version of Gnosticism? There's at least 5.

>>96106229 (OP)

I basically take the mythological/historical Solomonari and make them edgier

>>96154563
Well, Hermeticism and Gnosticism, while both rooted in Greco-Roman mystery traditions emphasizing esoteric knowledge for salvation, differ in their roles and their views on the material world and humanity's relationship with it.

Hermeticism generally takes a more optimistic view, seeing the material world as a reflection of the divine and a tool for spiritual development, to ascend and unite with divine Godhead, while Gnosticism (often) views the material world as inherently flawed, or even evil, requiring escape from it, or transcendence.

Both seek to ascend/transcend in their own ways.

>>96153566
experimentation, the first sorcerers were people desperately to find a way to survive through an apocalyptic event

>>96106229 (OP)
If you're lucky the spaceships will take you.

>>96106229 (OP)
Its something mother's pass on to their son's friends.

>>96156039
based motherfucker

>>96121530
kek

>>96106239
fpbp

>>96135300
Hmm. Seems like a hard to define word

>>96154299
That's correct. +500 to you

>>96167101
kek

>>96106229 (OP)
bump

I rather like the idea offered by the Practical Guide To Evil.

It takes a lot to make a wizard. Schooling, talent, resources, food, lodging, etc.

You know what's easier than that? Teaching them how to make a fireball, how to heal, and how to follow orders with twenty other knuckleheads so they can do volleys and patch up other people.

>>96169855
the Practical Guide To Evil?

It works like Resident Evil. Insane scientists that are borderline sorcerers and cult leaders. Usually biological horrors abuse.

>>96172587
So how often are the students killing their teachers and trigger revenge that destroys an entire town?