Horror Edition
>Previous Thread
>>96118229
>Pastebin
https://pastebin.com/WiCHizn0
>Mediafire
https://mediafire.com/folder/s9esc6u7ke8k5/CofD
>Mega I
https://mega.nz/folder/ePQ1BKhJ#RCosRCh59Ki2Mpb1M9H3Uw
>Mega II (also containing fanmade games)
https://mega.nz/folder/ZbQ2zLJA#DOT-3df6rS2lLet4_RmqJQ
>WoD5 Mega
https://mega.nz/folder/7rQQ1LbQ#16_AiXVGo0P3_rVOJuoZyA
>STV content folders
https://pastebin.com/9i9zhydQ
>General Creation Kit
https://mega.nz/#F!FWJgBTbb!f7d5rARWHYzuI8-8aI-Bxw
>Ideas: BJ Zanzibar's WoD
http://167.99.155.149/
>Anders Mage Page
http://mage.gearsonline.net/anders/
>White Wolf Wiki:
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Main_Page

>Thread Question:
When was the last time your game had a monster that wasn't tied to the canon books, and how did that go?

>>96141708 (OP)
>When was the last time your game had a monster that wasn't tied to the canon books, and how did that go?
My ST made up all kinds of banes and fomori; but at the end of the day, they were still banes and fomori. If you mean something that wasn't in any way tied to something existing; I don't think he ever did.

>>96141735
>If you mean something that wasn't in any way tied to something existing; I don't think he ever did.
Fair, it isn't worth the extra effort in a decen't chunk of games.

>>96141708 (OP)
Midnight Circus campaign was filled with Oc Monsters
>One eye Cotten candy golems
>Ballon attack dogs that shocked you
>Head of the clown tent was a porcelain flesh doll using a Tzimisce grafted to a hoolahoop to cast Clown blood magic "Funnelcakes that exploded into hot oil for example"
>Snail man freak we needed his shell to get past the Trumble Grumble and Bumble Troup
This was just game one

>new Hunter: the Parenting is out
LET'S FUCKING GOOOO

>>96141757
It was a low exp game set in a fictional New Mexico town called Bone Creek. In this town, which was up until very recently slowly dying, has recently undergone a rebirth as a large wave of people moving out of the cities hit the scenic and relatively cheap town. Which is a real thing that happened in America recently. However, something is wrong. The barrier between the worlds of the living and dead are weakening rapidly, which has resulted in an increase in hauntings and more importantly sin-eaters, as there were simply more geists able to bind themselves to dying people. So all of a sudden there were four sin eaters in a small rural town that would usually be lucky to only have one, and they have to find a solution to the wound that's causing the dead to walk the earth again before it gets out of hand.

Everyone committed to hard focusing on a single Haunt, and so I was expecting ghost stand battles. While such things did occur, the game actually turned out to be a slow paced character drama about the town, the people in it, the nature of death, and making the most of your second chance. I definitely played fast and loose with some lore, but that's just how my group does in general.

>>96141708 (OP)
>TQ
I suppose it depends on your definition of what not being tied to a canon book means. If you wanted to be pedantic, a random ass creature you make with HtV's monster creation rules is still tied to a canon book because you used the system in Vigil. Though at that point the only way to have a monster not "tied" to a book is to just make something up in oWoD since it lacks any universal monster creation. If we're allowing dread power monsters though, all the damn time.

Would the nWoD Sorcerer template I made up count? It's a full on new template but I took stuff from both Witch Finders and oWoD Sorcerer to make it.

>>96141735
>If you mean something that wasn't in any way tied to something existing
Technically, that would make them bygones, which is literally OWoDs "everything else" category.

Tzimisce should be able to customise their Zulo form like a Mokolé's Archid

How likely are the various Technocracy factions to work with Reality Deviants? Sort of as a catch-all, but apparently the Technocracy sometimes works with Vampires, but seems to never-ever work with Werewolves or Demons. But is that just because they don't do it period, (I mean Demons yeah obviously) or just because the NWO are control freaks with a stick up their ass?

Just played my first Hunter game and we all set out to be Sam and Dean Winchester
But in the best and most humbling experience I've ever had was a near TPK to an angry chimpanzee

>>96141993
It depends on the ST but for the most part, werewolves or demons lead to too much fuckery and paradigm corruption, so the higher-ups just said, "Fuck it, we aren't dealing with this shit".

>>96141993
Vampire's are above of all masters of social prediction
An extremely useful tool for control

Werewolf Fairy Knight here, first game wnt really well!

So instead of starting with us going through the rite of initiation, we decided to do the first few weeks of garou boot camp leading up to that first. It was pretty fun, it allowed for me to shine my rp more than I was expecting.

We're a group of three:
>Kaycee (Homid, Ahroun, Fianna), a girl that underwent her first change at around 8-9 years old but dissapeared the night she was brought back to the garou nation. Next thing they know is that after a few years has passed a 16 yo adolesccent with amnesia who looks like the missing child and shares the same name just surfaced out of nowhere, in full medieval armor and holding a really powerful fetish. Almost every werewolf involved has no clue what happened, and the few who does are completely baffled since this is pretty unprecedented.
>Ivy Baker (Homid, Theurge, Uktenna), a girl with a tragic past who swore vengeance on those who wronged her. She has a deathly phobia she has yet to share and something traumatizing in her past makes her uneager to shapeshift at all.
>Nyx (Lupus, Ragabash(?), Red Talon), she is the last survivor of her tribe, has a notorious disdain for everything homid and currently in distress since she's been separated from her pups during garou boot camp.

We got through five days where we were taught the role of each auspices with various instructors. Among the notorious event we had

>Nyx botching her role to exit in the umbra and got stuck for a while in the gauntlet
>Ivy taking the role of wrangler between the humanity rejecting wolf, and Kaycee who's got the memory of Doris from Nemo
>Kaycee boasting she doesn't need shapeshifting lesson, so some garous dared her to prove it with really advanced stuff. She succeeded everything and as a reward got a point of glory as well as access to booze

>>96142034
Why were you guys fighting a chimp in the first place?

>>96142070
The talk about a man eating monster whos been terrorizing the homeless at night was actually an escaped chimpanzee from a local exotic pet dealer

>>96141993
Heavily depends on the edition, book, and ST's opinion, but originally Technocracy was commanding/cooperating with the Paradox spirits.

Iterators don't like or suffer any deviants but Weaver-aspected robot things.

Rorqual are the definitive yes for Progenitors, considering Progenitors have been trying to uplift cetaceans for ages. And cephalopods, so same might be true for Qyrl's servants. Possibly Mokole too, though I'm not sure how the three would get along. Glass Walkers are a semi-canon option for Progenitors going by info printed way after 2004 that doesn't jive with the early representation where they were mass-sterilising werewolves with chems.

VE cooperate with whoever in the Deep Umbra out of necessity while fighting eldritch abominations, and even out of it might have strange and alien companions (though they're mindful not to upset sleepers or NWO).

Syndicate would work with whoever makes profit and doesn't upset the Consensus too much.

NWO... tolerates vamps and other things only insofar as they have bigger things to worry about, otherwise they would gladly exterminate every non-human.

>>96141840
The hell it is

>When was the last time your game had a monster that wasn't tied to the canon books, and how did that go?

I do this all the time because the high umbra is a total goldmine in terms of ST freedom. the most recent monster in one of my games was a hypercube. one of the player characters got flipped horizontally and they all freaked out trying to kill it, culminating in them making a building explode. some other stuff I've thrown in include the moth man, くねくね, and then for another game, sapient raccoons, and an overgrown magical carnivorous plant. Old urban legends, conspiracy theories and even /x/ are a goldmine for WOD games.
>>96141993
depends on faction
- the syndicate actively work with pentex and the camerilla and practice a lot of less than scientific things themselves

- the void engineers have an issue of trying to keep aliens as pets and are generally friendly with the dreamspeakers
- There are many cases of the progenitors doing reality deviant things or keeping reality deviants for study (Frankenstein, lab werewolves)
- Iteration X is run by a spirit
and the NWO do have a stick up their ass fuck those guys

>>96142528
Perhaps it is patreon only for now

>Claims to have dwelled among the antediluvians before the deluge
>Probably only 5th generation
>Won't shut up about his corruption fetish
>Thinks he can diablerize all of the Antediluvians
>And then subjugate humanity
>And create a vampire utopia
>Most of the NYC Sabbat fell for his bullshit
>Dies to a technical neonate, his friends, and his magic sword

What in the fuck is this dude

>>96142936
don't forget that clan tzimisce also hates him, because he is just THAT evil, but they only put him into topor instead of killing him or that he has more minions in his lair than most camarilla cities (how do they stay hidden? what do they eat?) and that for some reason he thinks he is a caster who spams path of levibolt spells till he is out of blood when his claws do nearly thrice the damage

everything about the character is just mega schizo

>>96142070
Training an ape to kill is Poe shit. Literally as classic as walling a guy into your basement.

>>96142070
>he doesn't randomly fight chimps
ngmi

>>96142383
>otherwise they would gladly exterminate every non-human
Funny you should say that, because the NWO is the Convention that eased up the Pogrom, and is also the one that doesn’t want to reinstate the “TOTAL REALITY DEVIANT DEATH” status quo. Iteration X is the one that wants the Pogrom to come back so they can test out their new toys.

>>96142061
Seibah???

>>96143291
to be fair, it-x is also projecting
literally
"Let's pretend to hate reality deviants extra hard so they don't realize we were working for a ghost"

>>96143302
Yep, redhead seibah, or green seibah

>>96142061
> Nyx
>currently in distress since she's been separated from her pups
…Red Talon MILF?

>got a point of glory as well as access to booze
Typical Fianna.

Good for you, Anon. Game looks promising. Hopefully it plays out to completion. Almost makes me want to play a WtA chronicle.

>>96143375

>>96141955
Agreed.

Would there be any reason for Technocrats to keep bygones/other anomalous lifeforms alive and contained? Or is "kill or vivisect" a more effective approach?

Still working on the Tzimisce, but I sketched out an ancient Roman Ventrue. Ghouled owl and dog, and well, ghoul, are all included.

>>96143578
>no tremere

>>96143607
But anon....I already drew a Tremere! He got killed by the Salubri I drew!
(Don't worry, I'll draw a proper non-final-death'd Tremere soon)

>>96143617
>He got killed by the Salubri I drew!

>>96143617
No, make it the same Tremere who happened to survive the Salubri attack, just as planned.
It matches the retarded plot armour of the Tremere perfectly.

>>96143640
Too late! He should've been hitting the gym instead of hitting the books!

>>96143672
Physical disciplines are boring.
He should have studied Path of Mercury.

>>96143714
What he should've done is his very best to NOT be a Tremere within head-chopping range of a Salubri warrior!

>>96143617
I'd really like to see your take on a Gangrel with a few mutations under their belt. great stuff dude.

>>96143716
I've considered it. I was thinking of maybe long, stretched, digitgrade legs, and fingers with iron talons, and a layer of fur over large areas of his body, with a huge blood-stained beard and extremely long shaggy hair on his head.

How good is Vampire Eternal Struggle?

>>96141955
If you wanted interesting and customizable mechanics... you shouldn't have played V:tM. Pretty sure all the devs on that line and a lot of its writers have had utter contempt for anyone playing it, and doubly so if you were interested in mechanics.

>>96143578
>Ventrue who dipped into Animalism

Always love that.

Is there a CofD equivalent of the future world of darkness?

>>96143809
Probably the best card game for more than two people. To play it effectively you need at least 3 players, while 4-5 is the golden number.

>>96143884
Mirrors: Bleeding Edge and Infinite Macabre are probably the closest, but they are very thin booklets.

>>96143886
I was thinking about introducing it to my D&D group for board game nights as an alternative to EDH. I was thinking about bringing it to a con for room parties, but it looks too slow and serious to be played while trashed.

>investigating suspected Bahari cult
>leafing through some myths
>long droning story of Lilith's self-inflicted problems, their predictable results, rape, fucking everyone over for no discernible reason and little gain
>wants me to buy that everyone but Lilith is stupid and/or weak and she didn't deserve anything that happened to her
>did we mention she's throwing EVERYONE some ass? Shining Ones, Lucifer, God. Everyone.
>author was just as stupid and destructive to everyone who taught her from what I've heard
>Coterie witch is eating this shit up for some reason
Tell me, is it something wrong with me or are the Bahari just especially retarded?

>>96143922
>Bahari cult
That's just the bad kind of infernalism.

>>96143922
>Tell me, is it something wrong with me or are the Bahari just especially retarded?
they are a true black hand subfaction so what do you think?

>>96143944
nta, but i always found it funny that lilith cults had most of the downsides of infernalism with none of the upsides

and then in gehenna this just turns around and is the best option ever because nightshade books was probably written on drugs

>>96143922
All vampire factions outside of the traditional trifecta (and most of the subfactions within it) suffer from varying degrees of terminal retardation.

>>96143922
> is it something wrong with me
having int above 2 is not something i would call "wrong"

>>96143922
I swear her cult is framed like that intentionally and I think it might relate to like Gen X feminism trying to reclaim Lilith as an image of an independent, defiant woman. Like everybody stopped reading there before the paragraph introducing the thousands of years of baby eating baggage.

didn't the bahari also have the most disgusting necromancy path or something like that?

>>96143911
Then maybe behave like responsible adults and don't trash yourselves at every board game night.

>>96143911
>I was thinking about introducing it to my D&D group for board game nights as an alternative to EDH.
fuck off, we're full

>>96143909
True but there is enough to extrapolate into a decent sci fi game. Given Demon the Descent, Lost Boys and the tranlation guides you can rule a lot of what people want in a sci fi game.

>>96143993
>didn't the bahari also have the most disgusting necromancy path or something like that?
They also fuck actual cadavers so... basically the same shit as the Gios.

>>96143922
Some people are very susceptible to victim narratives. Especially in VtM, where characters who will just take responsibility for their problems are incredibly rare. Besides which, if she's the coterie "witch", it could just be an in-character thing. A self styled witch falls for a religion worshiping a powerful, sorcerous female deity, it tracks.

>>96143884
Yes. There are 2 or 3 books in the Mirrors subline, one of those is all about future stuff. The others where dark fantasy and i forgot what the last one was about.

>>96144108
>necromancy "people"

A question for Awakening (and, I suppose, Ascension) players:
Have you ever used magic to learn non-magical abilities?
Like summoning [insert famous painter here]'s goetia to teach you his secrets? Or maybe his ghost? Perhaps just going with Spirit and getting some Art Spirit to teach you?
Summoning the goetia of old philosophers to discuss shit sounds interesting.

>>96143884
There's a Vampire book whose name escapes me, about various settings options and one of them I think is space-age and cyberpunk?

>>96144524
World of Future Darkness?

>>96144535
I don't think so, it's been years but I swear it had rules for playing in the 50s and 70s?

>>96141993
Void Engineers and the Syndicate do it all the time
Iteration X and NWO might do it if they have to
it's on sight for the Progenitors since any RD could lead to a weakening of trust in science and thus erodes the medical paradigm they have been pushing

I'm new in the WOD mage, I read the second edition manual and the technocracy guide of the second edition, anyway If it works I was thinking of doing a campaign like X-files or Man in Blacks, where the PCs are thecnocracy agents for like "clean up crew" like rewrite mind of the sleepers or infact follow the trail of the thing that created the paradox.
Like a secret group inside the conventions is creating new technology that is making paradox everywhere and the players are following this trail to discover a deep conspiracy inside the convention.
Is it too far fetched? From what I read I got that Technocracy is between a Shadow goverment and a corporation (inside itself outside It's just corporations, scientist and the media) and I was thinking well the technocracy act like the KGB, a shadow goverment so deep that they don't even know themselves their own agenda.

>>96144777
>far fetched
not at all, there are even canon examples of conspiracies like the SPD and Project Invictus because as it turns out it can be hard to.find them when they use ma- science to cover their tracks

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1a2bPJfP-vnqZ0Jevb1qaHLaQZbE5IejaoyyrWXbfaQM/edit?usp=drivesdk


Back with Dagon the Descent, wrote some more (mostly about Deep Magick), will soon be ready to fully introduce Deep Ones Gameplay and differences between Gillmen/Afflicted and Humans. Will write more Mertis&Flaws. Cannot yet write about how to mechanically become a Deep Ones (no longer lose Sanity in the presence of fish people) because Fish-Anon is away and this is his game. Dagonism as a religion will be featured, kinda like how you can be a Sabbath Pack Priest of Nod, or maybe like a fucked up marriage between Infernalism and True Faith.
Please, random people on the Internet! You are the only forum of World of Darkness content that is not a pain in the ass to upload content to. Please, feedback! Criticism! Anything, I don’t know enough about making a splatbook to finish this without any advice…

>>96144777
Please, do yourself a favor and read the NWO Convention Book.

>>96144881
https://files.catbox.moe/opr2af.png
https://files.catbox.moe/xcl2vu.png

I also made these

>>96144881
Sorry I haven't read the doc yet

do you have any plans to include a seductive Fishman archetype to account for modern interpretations of the fishmen (or occasionally fishwomen in Lovecraft's case)? not necessarily physically seductive but something that runs with the themes of "race mixing" and "unholy unions" that have stuck with the fish people since they were introduced in the pulp fiction era

I swear this isn't a fetish thing

I'll read it when I get home

>>96144938
All fishmen come from humans (since its world of darkness) but fishmen are mutation and defect ridden Sorcerers. Sirens are a type of Gillmen, though their more seductive forms are Sorcery.

>>96144524
>>96144543
You might be thinking of VtR Guide to the Night. GttN has a cyberpunk, space opera, and 60s-70s alternate settings.

>>96144956
That's the one, thanks anon!

Thoughts on Norfolk Wizard Game? I just watched the first two episodes and it seems pretty decent

>>96144998
has single-handedly revived Mage judging by the uptick in people who want to run mage now

>>96144998
>>96145003
forgot to add that it isn't that weird considering that people are finally seeing that Mage is just a game like any other and not some insurmountable leviathan that will crush anyone without 30+ years of experience running rpgs

>>96144998
It's alright. I would prefer sessions that are closer to 3 hours in length, but it's their game.

>>96144949
I see, thanks anon. I read the doc. Is there a reason why the Rokea/Gaia are at odds with Dagon? Was Dagon a rogue creation of Gaia or more like a rival entity?

>>96145010
I imagine the actual play sessions they do are longer and they edit it down to a shorter, more digestible length. There's no way all of them are so eloquent with every line, without any stuttering or "uhmmm ahh" now and then

>>96145028
Its kept vague, but one of the possible origins of Dagon is as an Earthbound, making all gillmen half demons. The actual reason is that, while Gillmen have a very long lifespan and do not have andropause/menopause, they rarely get to enjoy their lifespan because of the Curse/Call of Dagon. Sunken (who have 3 priorities: Eat to be strong, Breed to continue to serve, Serve Dagon/Master) they are barely smarter than a Tzimisce flesh puppet and are easy to dominate) outnumber gillmen 250:1 and Deep Ones are social creatures, always swimming in schools. This leads the average Mariner Gangrel/Rokea to picture Gillmen as insane, feral fish monsters.

>>96143375
>…Red Talon MILF?
Yes. But she’s a lupus, and does her utmost to never change into glabro and homid. Even crinos she’s pretty reticent since it has homid traits like standing on two legs and having hands with opposable thumbs. So for all intents and purposes lusting after her is bestiality.

>Typical Fianna.
Get your groove on soldier! Our boys work hard and they play harder!

>Good for you, Anon. Game looks promising. Hopefully it plays out to completion. Almost makes me want to play a WtA chronicle.
I hope so too. Though it’s mostly a game that exists as backup in case the ST for our vtm game is unable to play. The ST for wta said he doesn’t want his game to become the main one (since he doesn’t want to eclipse vtm ST, and he already ST many other games).

Have they released more Kiths for CtL 2e besides the ones in core?

>>96143291
Pogrom is largely irrelevant, as wizards are human, and thus can be persuaded or re-educated, conversion is preferable to elimination, and NWO had other pragmatical reasons to scale it down.
NWO tolerates non-humans, but given an option they would exterminate every single one.

As opposed to every other convention which would ask: "Is it a complex machine?" "Can it be used to improve humanity and few other species (but with a caveat, does it pose a contagious/otherwise deleterious threat to human health)?" "Can it be an ally of convenience in our space battles?" "Can it make profit?"

NWO, given sufficient power and no bigger issues to occupy their attention, would not bother with these questions.

>>96144419
Rotes I've made for that specific purpose and general knowledge acquisition are Ashen Pages (burn a book of an equal size to to summon and read any destroyed body of work you know of, the less copies left, the easier it is, borderline impossible to use on anything mass-printed), Night in the Library, a meditation rote for harnessing knowledge from books stored in great libraries overnight, and third one, Knowledge Forgotten (strongest, but needs mastery, and can only pull old info and skills that few to no Sleepers in the whole world remember). There's also Akashic warm-up set that helped to learn physical skills.

One of my chars was an infernalist that just summoned demons so he'd have someone to listen to and play games with (a Tytalus, lonely, hated by his entire order and hating them in turn). Calling up dead is more common, but we have dedicated necromancer in our group for that.

>>96143965
>nightshade books was probably written on drugs
It's still missing 90% of the mechanics it needs. It straight up has a built-in new-game adventure and didn't bother to stat out any of the important NPCs or wtf a "Lilim", the literal thing every PC has to turn into to keep playing, even is/how it works.

>>96147135
i personally went with cainite elohim hybrids but yeah that scenario is the worst when it comes to the st having to make up stuff

it's been a long while since i ran it but doesn't it also feature scenes in which you need to get to liliths garden or the shadowlands?

you know something vampire coteries might not be able to do at all

Ideas on how to adapt the hush house from book of hours to mage?

>>96147302
>cainite elohim hybrids
I just make them living cainites with generation.
Drinking liliths blood made caine into caine, so it stands to reason lilith would make them living(as in, not unliving) first gen vampire like him. The net effect of this is that they just have max traits 10 and no cap on their maximum blood pool/blood per turn. Not much really even changes for the characters, just their future potential.

>>96147528
>cainites with generation.
*cainite with generation 1

What kind of campaign does Changeling the Dreaming do well?

I've had the idea of a coming of age story that revisits the same characters as kids, young adults, and 30yo boomers - but that feels like it needs enough buy-in the answer is "go write a novel"

>>96147528
i went with that because lilith has dominions that kinda work like lores in this and the author tells us to not mind dtf in this because who cares about it

so i did went hard on using dtf because the scenario pissed me off

>>96147563
>30yo boomers
Anon, the boomers are in their 80s. I'm sorry this is how you had found out you were old.

>>96147563
That other anon who is like one of the 5 people to actually read through Changeling: Dark Ages was right. Changeling the Dreaming is a fantasy themed post apocalypse. You're fighting for dwindling territory and the entire environment that isn't that is hostile to you.

>>96147573
Doesn't the scenario come out to say she was just a primardial-paradigm(pre-pillars/spheres) archmage?
I took it as all of her powers are the product of her trying, and failing, to create a stable paradigm before fleshed out belief systems like pillars were first invented.

>>96147579
Not even most changeling remember this though. The majority of kiths have zero way of knowing that they used to all basically be Gods of the dreaming and destroyed the old world using magical nuclear war that poisoned the dreaming forever.

>>96147605
no that scenario says "don't define lilith she isn't just a proto verbanna archmage she is lilith" which is fucking awful when she is a main character in the story

>>96147605
There's nothing about arch, but she was a mage by pre-Gehenna lore. Not just Verbena's, but VtM's too. Straight from the Book of Nod. And not just a mage, but Awakened specifically.

>>96147605
lilith is her own splat the so called lilim one, but we don't really know what that means as >>96147135 pointed out, but said splat includes: lilith, living ueber vampires, sewer blob monsters and all other kids of lilith and it's compatible with "demons" and "angels" as the author of the scenario defines them (which is different to how any other book does) as lilith could learn powers from lucifer

and to make matters worse the same name is also used for vampires on the path of lilith even in the same scenario

>Lilin and Bahari
>You’ll probably notice that we’ve only included single characters here, rather than large groups such as the Lilin or Lilim (Sabbat followers of the Path of Lilith) or the Bahari (all followers of Lilith, Sabbat and otherwise)

>>96147575
Isn't the whole premise of a Grump that "You turn 30 and most of the magic goes away"?

>>96147749
they kicked that out in c20 because player didn't liked it, but as of 2e yeah that was the point

>>96147765
I haven't read C20. I'm going on memories of finding CtD 1e or 2e in the library.

That's a shame; the theme about growing up, a bit like Bridge to Terabithia, was the thing about CtD that stuck with me the most.

>>96147788
i think the problem is that it been 20to 30 years and the anniversary editions are made for old fans first and foremost

but on a personal level i fully agree with you

>>96147846
So how did the old fans typically handle things? Faerie court politics?

Do you narrate the months/years that follow a player embrace or just timeskip it? I wanna host a game where everyone start as human, but i don't know how deep i can go with that concept, I'm afraid the game will become too much single-player-ish, because they're probably only grouping up in a coterie after they're presented to the Camarilla

>>96147788
>That's a shame
I didn't like it either; I found it a very jarring change. Now the whole childer / wildling / grump thing is just a state of mind and has nothing to do with how old the character is.

>>96148307
I guess the game's reputation of being for otherkin who presumably don't want to grow up isn't unfounded for them to make that change to satisfy the longtime fans.

That sounds less interesting than the thing it had going before about the seasons of life.

>>96147311
Read Halls of the Arcanum, really what more do you need? You already have the floor plan.

started painting a samedi

>>96148378
Agreed, but the nice thing is that there's absolutely no reason why a given group couldn't tie to back to age like it used to be.

>>96148475
She looks like a girl in my league.

>>96148047
Time skipping the "vampire 101" classes on a meta level is for the better after you played it out once or twice.

>>96148307
>>96148378
Eh. That change wasn't that bad compared to worst of C20, namely the need to make everything about "competitive" fights and wank desu.
Old Changeling was like one last game that prioritised story over all that crap, and if I wanted any of it I'd play Vampire or Mage, anyway.

>>96148475
>>96148516
>Ayyy girl, how deep those Hags' Wrinkles go?

>>96147605
Lilith is basically the mary sue of VTM, especially in ToJ. To the point that they invent brand new Lucifer for her because canonically, there is no Lilith in DTF. Lucifer didn't bang her.

>>96148851
Lilith is a whore, she'd bang anything with a protruding cylinder.
>canonically
>DTF
Anyone who takes DtF for canon in any game but it (and even that's not given, demons lie more than all other splats put together) is a dipshit.

reminder that Lilith is currently in the first of the Qlippoths having sex with an ever growing amount of her children that she is constantly giving birth to mid-orgy

>>96149198
>she is constantly giving birth to mid-orgy
That's the best part.

>>96145946
There is a whole book about 2e Kiths, they just haven't been sent to the OP for whatever reason.

>>96149198
Oh, cool, so she's a bigger Nephandi and her garden is an anthropic bacterial mat.

>>96141708 (OP)
Kind of a bullshit answer, but the only example I had was a VtR game where the monster killing and skinning the local kine was just a mortal serial killer. Not a slasher or anything, just a meticulous psychopath. It seemed like an appropriate curve ball since all the PC's and NPC'S thought there was some kind of rival faction like the Lupines (a couple of the victims were ghouls). The players thought it was a cool reveal, and almost all of them had a grand time exsanguinating him. One of them felt guilty since the families would never see justice done, but the killer had stumbled into the supernatural world and planned on kidnapping and harvesting vampires for their vitae. He had already seen too much to be relinquished to mortal authorities.

>>96149494
Pretty neat, how did they caught the guy?

>>96149494
That's great. Awareness of Kindred keeps him from encountering them the usual way and just being a bad hunting roll for them, and then he gets to admire them from afar and make them feel crusty and sad by imitation.

>Just read the Blood Treachery's play on the second Massasa War

How do you guys handle very large objects being used as weapons in nWoD games?
I’m playing 1st edition Forsaken with some buddies and came to the realization that, according to the rules, there is no difference in dice bonus between smacking someone with a sedan or a dumpster and hitting them with an aluminum baseball bat (damage of most weapons is based on the lower of size and durability, right?). Maybe I missed something in the rules but this feels wrong. I looked through some 2e stuff and the best I can find was in Requiem where size 5+ weapons always do lethal damage to mortals. I thought in 2e weapons always dealt lethal damage no matter what. What gives?

>>96150282
Vehicle crashing into stuff have their own damage rules. IIRC there an improvised damage rule set in the core book, if that isn't there you could always use the Vigor rules.

Ventrue WIP while I wrap up the Tzimisce

>>96148475
Would.

>>96148516
>>96150834
Bros, just buy Animal Magnetism or Striking Looks.

What exactly is the difference between a Hollow One and an Orphan?

>>96151214
Hollow Ones are a "defined" org of mages usually centered around Romanticism, Post-Modernism, and/or Nihilism, while Orphans are just Mages that are unaffiliated with any organization. In early editions the Hollowers and Orphans were used kinda interchangeably, but IIRC the distinction became significantly more defined in Revised.

>>96151214
Hollow Ones are art students, Orphans are homeless

>>96148475
>>96150737
Yeah!!

>>96150282
>What gives?
They were thinking about improvised damage when they wrote it or something.

Starting my Hunter Vigil campaign tonight and I'm excited but nervous. The session will start with the group attending a street party. I'll tutorialise the basics of the system by having each of them make a few rolls to run events at the party (a race, defuse an argument, sell something at a stall etc). Then it'll start to rain and everyone will have to duck inside and unfortunately everyone hides out in one of the PCs spooky bookshops. Thunder will rumble, it'll spook one of the PCs babies who'll cry and a Ghost will manifest. The Ghost was murdered 7 months prior by a Slasher, and the PC has unknowingly moved into a murder house. The PCs will be incentivised to find and deal with the Slasher in order to put the Ghost to rest. Hopefully.

>>96152334
>it'll spook one of the PCs babies who'll cry
You fucking monster.

>>96152423
The Ghost only appears when the Slasher that killed her, kills again. Or when a baby cries, and her Bane/Ban (I forget which is which) is that she has to try and reach the crying baby because her own baby was crying when she was killed.

The alternative is that the Slasher goes around stealing peoples pocket money, it's just not the same.

>>96151214
The difference is fairly loose, but Hollow Ones are an infantile mage subculture and organisation, of gothic, counter-culture flavour mostly, but necessarily. The poser kids, the undecided, and ragers against traditions that still want safety in numbers.

Orphans are mages that weren't found by, don't care for, or even actively hate organised mage societies. So it might be someone who wasn't exposed to other mages for long, or someone who seen them and found all of them wanting, in other words, or someone whose paradigm and practices are too out-there to fit.

>>96152563
Rarely enough (cause Technocracy is better at screening for and, ahem, persuading nascent Enlightened to join them) it might be a Technocrat in all but name that can't abide seething assholes that are VA and toaster-taping pseudoscience of SoE. Those usually get murdered by the former or discover that Technocracy exists, but I've met a few Technocrat-inclined Orphan NPC and players that stood their ground in absence of Technocracy.

>>96152334
Sounds solid to me. Good luck anon.

>>96152592
>a Technocrat in all but name
An important distinction between traditionalist technomancers and unclaimed technocrats is their fundamental stance on the technology and methodology.
Whatever opinion on the Enlightened Science and Consensus effect of the Masses they might hold, a Technocrat, deep down, KNOWS that there are coherent laws of physics that make tech work, that tech would continue to work were all mages to be removed from the world, and crackpottery and pseudosciences need to be discarded for the common good. A traditionalist, deep down, BELIEVES that it's all in the head, and tech only works because techies and sleepers believe it to work, and any theory, no matter how far off, is valid (they still have those they like and dislike).

We all know that cross splat is highly discouraged in oWoD, but does anyone else have a success story of a cross splat chronicle?
>running MtAs and WtA for two different parties.
>MtAs group blows apart due to irl nonsense
>WtA chronicle going well, but the Dreamspeaker player from the MtAs still wants to play and asks about trying to find more people to play mage.
>ask WtA group if anyone wants to join a MtAs chronicle.
>"why can't her mage just join our pack if she's a shaman?"
>rest of WtA party agrees.
>I shrug, and ask the Dreamspeaker girl if she would play her mage in a werewoof game.
>she really likes the idea and I set up the in game rendezvous.
>cut to three sessions later and they're having a blast, Theurge werewolf even acts as a liason to deal with a paradox spirit.
>local garou get an idea of what ascension for the dreamspeaker girl might mean, and believe it's their best bet in this war.

I think they might actually save Gaia guys. Also interested in some cool ideas for antags and conflicts if anyone has some.

>>96152766
While I won't suggest running a crossover, and in general in, say, Vampire it's enough to give a player "in-clan" vampire sorceries without cast costs and explicitly forbid them to become ghoul and learn disciplines,
Mages (as close a faction to the main splat's theme as you get), sorcerers (brewers, enchanters and diviners), and sometimes mummies (1e/2e) make pretty good supporting player characters, as long as both the ST and the player are intimately familiar with the systems and don't try to overshadow the rest of the party, but help it along.

>>96147135
>didn't bother to stat out any of the important NPCs or wtf a "Lilim"
They actually did fully stat out what a "Lilim" is, but in a different book: World of Darkness: Gypsies
I wish I was joking, but lilith is daenna and the "Clildren of Lilith"/Lilim are the Gypsies. The entire social penalty from higher blood purity is because of lilith's curse to never be loved.
>TL;DR: the reward for drinking lilith's blood is gaining the power of a back-alley fortune teller

>>96152766
>but does anyone else have a success story of a cross splat chronicle?
The first WoD campaign I played in was a multi-splat OWoD. I think we had two vampires, two hunters, a changeling, a demon, and a (fan splat) immortal. We had a great time, put people eventually pressured our ST to switch to NWoD (which he happily ran, but never really liked as much).

>Hunter manages to take out one of the local Camarilla's main assets
>not only was said asset wildly unpopular but normal people are lionizing the Hunter in question
How does the Cam avoid a Masquerade breach or putting the wrong idea in the kine's heads?

>>96153238
Plant CP and gore on his computer, cover up any connections to the asset, make any liabilities commit suicide? It's what the real feds do as is.

>>96153285
>It's what the real feds do as is.
Considering what's currently going on with epstein, it seems like all the competent ghouls have already wassailed and the feds are left with the scraps and rejects.

>>96152836
>the reward for drinking lilith's blood is gaining the power of a back-alley fortune teller
Kek.
I just checked the gypsy book and it looks like this is 100% correct.

>>96145028
Is that all you found lacking? Anything else you could tell me, please? Especially related to mechanics, since I have no actual hands on experience with WoD, which makes creating Sorceries and “splat equivalent blood buffs” really hard to do

>>96148475
>Boop!
>"Took your nose!"

>>96153829
NTA and I didn't really read it yet, but you really should get a handle on those +1 that don't specify dice or difficulty.

Also, Vodyanoy aren't necessarily froglike and pot-bellied, they can also be piscine or driftwood-like, but their most common appearance is that of gnarly old men with hair and beards from thread-like algae and pond scum. I'd suggest some sort of wizened theme, but Slavic female water spirits and frog shifter creatures are generally known to be hot, but also kill men by dragging them down into water (not always maliciously, as the men that think approaching a water maiden is a good idea are likely shitfaced, and amphibious creatures don't get the whole "need air to breath" idea).

>>96153238
They gave that guy too much attention, there was even a pic where more than a dozen police officers follow him when he's handcuffed like a fucking Batman villain
For an actual supernatural coverup you do what they did to Odom, just put him in jail, say the victim had a surprisingly fast recovery because of prayers and some shit and everyone will forget

>>96154066
>They gave that guy too much attention
That's intentional. It's a show of force to let the serfs know why they shouldn't step out of line. Same thing happened when a climate scientist did a demonstration at a wallstreet building instead of blaming the usual thing. The Entirety of Every Police Division across new york were called in, not because they were needed for one twiggy scientist, but because they wanted to prevent any other people from getting the same idea. One Dude basically advertized where IRL pentex headquarters was and that scared them enough to act.

>>96153990
It starts melting in your hands right away.

>>96148475
It's a creepy leer but the chewed lips have nervous energy, too. Feels like she could be sneaking peeks at a coroner she tricked into doing her autopsy.

>>96154027
I based them on these guys.
As for all the +1s… yeah, they are a bit of a problem especially as I am reading Changing Breeds and comparing what we did to it, i see a lot of similarities( not a good thing). But funnily enough, those many +1 -1 bonuses (like Photophobia and Cold Blooded) were made by Fish-Anon, who *has* hands on experience. So until I get some test games under my belt I can’t really figure out how to limit those +1s specifically (he also originally did not intend for the Oannes to have any max mutation level buffs, that was my idea. A mutation level 10 Oannes afflicted had 0 Dexterity, bad Athletics and really low speed. This is because Gillman gameplay was never intended, only Afflicted were meant to be playable, but I am looking to change that). But I would probably make Photophobia buffs/debuffs vision related and Cold Blooded Dex/Athletics/Stamina related, just like the real thing

>>96154239
>I based them on these guys.
Cool art.
I mean, I get where you're coming from, water game, gotta be angry frog people, just that frog isn't what comes to mind first when I read Vodyanoi, it's one of their optional shapeshifting aspects.
It's like with dragons, great sea serpents and behemoths/leviathans exist, but of dragons specifically Chinese Long are those with strong affinity with water (and yeah they also fly or run on clouds, breath fire, summon lightning and storms, but water is their core thing), while Slavic Zmei's greatest distinction from European winged fire-breathing, greedy dragons is that they are commonly multi-headed and intelligent as a rule rather than an exception.
>can’t really figure out how to limit those +1s specifically
Capping mods at three and diversifying works, but I meant forgetting to specify whether it affects dice or difficulty. As in,
>+1 to [ability] rolls
In between of
>+1 difficulty to [ability] rolls
and
>+1 dice to [ability] rolls
And in a bracket that intermittently offers bonuses and maluses.
You can usually intuit what it's supposed to be but such thing is the first tell of a sloppy game design.

I was going through the books about self-help and similar I downloaded and I came across this in a book about Ayurveda
Is this where WtA’s cosmology comes from? Searching Werewolf the Apocalypse Ayurveda doesn't give any answers

>>96149724
It's convoluted, but they basically gathered enough clues to send one of the PC's ghouls to investigate a lead during the daytime. That ghoul never reported back, so the PC's tracked him down at night. The killer had rigged his house with traps and was using the ghoul as bait, but the PC's overcame them with minimal damage. The ghoul was cut up a bit, but they got him out before snapping some photos for the Prince and setting the place on fire. They managed to stop the Prince from making a retaliatory strike against the Lupines and got some territory handed to them for their troubles.

>>96154472
Uh, which part of the cosmology? The Triat's Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva because hinduism spiritualty was the thing at the time even though WoD has 4 or maybe 5 fundamental forces the woofs don't acknowledge for some reason.

>>96154501
>WoD has 4 or maybe 5 fundamental forces the woofs don't acknowledge for some reason.
Are they from a different game line or just forgotten by the writers?

>>96152766
End of the World one-shot with a Mage who's entire setup was to be a master driver and able to keep the truck on road
Changling who gave supernatural boons to music and food
A Werewolf who had been cut in half ridding in the trucks bed keeping anything that jumped in at bay
And Finally a Vampire who converted Blood points into fuel making his hunting and feeding top priority

It was the best fucking experience I've ever had
The Hunting trips had close calls with one leading us to be chased by angry spirits once our Vampire had drained the last Kinfolk
The one before gave our vampire the ability to mend minor wounds with flesh manipulation after he'd drank from a flesh wall out of desperation

It's still on going

>>96154493
Nice to hear people actually getting to play. My group has been having schedule problems for like 2 months by now and it's really annoying.

>>96152766
>We all know that cross splat is highly discouraged in oWoD
The literal appeal is the shared world, your getting mixed up with
>Hybrids
Werwolf Vampires
Vampre Mages
Changling Werewolves

>>96154462
Oh i dread to imagine Fish-Anon even conceived the idea of bonuses giving you *extra dice*. No, none of our bonuses do that. At least, to me they don’t. While one of the most numerous supernaturals on the Blue Marble, Deep Ones were always meant to be a minor splat. And especially as this game was about the defect-ridden Afflicted, there’s no way any of those bonuses were ever anything more than “+1 to the final roll value”. I shall standardise them.
>Rarely shown as frogs
Yes, its often more fish than frog, but even Fishanon wanted a more diverse porfolio of water dwellers, that’s why my greatest nightmare, the cecaelians are there, who have little to no solid mythological background or known folkloric representation, meaning I must write wholly unique fluff about them. At least everyone else was relatively easy to write. The Ningen are a massive MrMant3c0re reference, for instance.
Also, if it isn’t too much to ask, could you write your complaints/recommendations down as a comment over one of the Mutations or something?
Your input was *greatly* appreciated regardless, i need as much feedback as possible, the second test game is coming up and I must be the storyteller

>>96154645
>Werwolf Vampires
Miniscule chances of success and it's a massive handicap desu unless ST allows you to load up on discipline dots and assures you you won't ever need to do anything by day. Also everyone would hate you for flakiness.
>Vampre Mages
Even aside from the whole deterioration rubbish, mages are XP starved as hell, and disciplines are massively inferior to permanent enhancements you can get with Life-conjunctional effects.
>Changling Werewolves
Is that even a thing outside of Irish supernaturals being so inbred that kinfolk and kinain are essentially the same thing?

>>96154776
This is what he was originally picturing them as, far less metal, it had to be rectified

>>96149864
He was a silly character. I made him based on 'The Skin Thief' by Nekrogoblikon, so he had bad frostbite and would target people with really nice skin (a lot of whom happened to be ghouls, because vitae is a hell of a drug). He really wanted the Daeva of the group, and she used that to distract him when they tracked him down.

>>96154588
This was from a game a couple years ago, but I know that feel. People and their stupid busy adult lives.

>>96154501
I was talking about Triat, I'm not familiar with Hinduism at all other than what I come across in Mobilism's health and faith e-book sections so I didn't know the same line of thinking also exists with Brahma and such

>>96154776
>I shall standardise them.
Do that.
>Rarely shown as frogs
It's not that they're rarely shown as frogs, a fat humanoid frog is the preferred form for some.
And I don't want you to re-write them, someone has to be a frog and like you said the concept is metal, just noting it felt odd and all to constrain all of Vodyanoy to being a frog.

Dunno when I have time to read it properly, though, and I'm not going to barge in with the document edits until I do.

>>96154922
Oh they have Mercurial for a reason. I was considering Mercurial/Invitra mutations to be able to give you *any* mutation eventually. Meaning a Vodyanoi that abuses the Homind Form or the Salmon form too much will end up with a fish tail or a craving for human flesh. Also helps scale your mutations later into the chronicle

>>96154645
>appeal is the shared world

Not really? It's not even really well-shared, since many of them collapse on contact with either one other game or any of them.

>>96152766
I will never stop running cross splat settings. They are too much fun. However, I think Hunter is the best suited for them. Especially if you get some Mercy aligned Imbued that want to power of friendship the local splats into unifying against the big bad.

>>96155652
Hunter is prolly the best way to onebook dumb down/weaken everyone for crossplay as well, even mage players are too busy celebrating absence of sphere bloat and tard dox to be salty over the nerf.

>>96152766
>We all know that cross splat is highly discouraged in oWoD
Only in later editions after the writers became controlling fuckwits. Early editions defaulted to "one world of darkness" and actively encouraged crossover. The mechanics got weird, but jank fun is better than functional misery-porn.

Looks like Stygia got a new Chanteur today.

>>96155904
You can't go off the rails on the Midnight Express. It would crash everywhere at once.

>>96155851
1e, where things were being thrown at the wall wildly to see if they stuck. What stuck and what attracted a lot of people was a bit less crossover friendly than that, since even in 2e the layout of the Umbrae between W:tA and M:tA was rather drastically different.

You also can't really discuss Reckoning or Fallen without talking about Revised, as those two did not exist before then. And in spite of being crossover happy with Reckoning, it was also compartmentalized and neither of the above two games played well with the Umbra outside of the Dark Umbra.

"One World of Darkness" is just a Vampire fan wanting to make everyone's game into hardcore personal horror pity parties.

Since we're talking about crossovers I had a nagging question about Changeling and Vampire. Do the latter have a dreamscape the former can infiltrate via Dreamweaving? If that is the case what makes a vampire's dreamscape different from a mortal human's?

>>96156171
Tremere have a path of dream fuckery (Himmler's primary and favourite, incidentally), so yes.

>>96156099
>"One World of Darkness" is just a Vampire fan wanting to make everyone's game into hardcore personal horror pity parties.
Who gives a shit about his opinion. It's a great term of "single-setting" WoD, the fact the maker is a dumbass should just mean he gets no input on it's use.

>>96156171
>>96156186
>what makes a vampire's dreamscape different from a mortal human's
For Tremere needing to spend Willpower to enter the dreams of vampires, and either spend Willpower to put vampires to sleep or torpor before that, or the standard check to remain awake during the day so they can cast the Path on a blissfully unaware vampire napping in their haven is the only difference.

Basically... you need rank 4 and any item the target possessed to enter their dream if they're asleep, you can't shape dream but can use disciplines (fun).
At rank 5 you can do whatever and shape the dream however you want up to killing vampires in their sleep (the opponent can resist with the same roll, but since they have no way to realise they're in a dream and nobody but dream specialist Tremere and some mages and sorcerers would have Dreaming skill).
It's one of those paths that relies on your enemies not knowing it exists and not knowing an obscure skill that can counter it exists, when everyone starts loading up on the skill using it becomes hella more risky.

They technically have two paths, but the second is strictly divination.

The biggest issue with oneWoD is it requires you to actually like more than a handful of WoD gamelines. Which in my experience is quite rare. The idea of having a single, combined urban fantasy setting is a good one, but in practice oWoD doesn't support it very well. Even the most ardent Magefag who insists he can use mage to connect everything will go into conniptions when someone brings up Demon: the Fallen.

By all means, make a cross-over of the parts you like at your table. But I think
it was ultimately a good call to move away from a combined setting in official material. You can always put things back together, but it's much harder to excise bleed-through from the things you can't stand.

>>96156421
Woofs and vamps and mages and weebs and exactly two mummyfags this general has ever seen could argue about cosmology forever, or not argue at all, but every single one of them with a speck of intelligence agrees that Demon: the Fallen has no place in crossovers or WoD.

>>96156472
>but every single one of them with a speck of intelligence agrees that Demon: the Fallen has no place in crossovers or WoD.
Don't talk for other people anon, you are in the minority. DtF has zero cosmology conflicts with VtM or WtA, in fact it reinforces their abrahamic cosmology. Devil's Due, the supplement that brought DtF to dark ages, was a Vampire dark ages supplement for god's sake.
If anything Mage is the odd man out in how it's the only one that completely fucks the WoD cosmology. Literally every other gameline fits perfectly or interacts so little with the others that it doesn't cause conflicts, but Mage shits on literally everything.

How dangerous is a drugged up mage

>>96156588
Depends on spheres an arete. Mage's range in danger level from "nerd that could get themselve's hurt" to "Gehenna looks like a game in comparison and the Antedeluvians are now praying to god for salvation".

>>96156588
As dangerous as any other mage, really.
Mages don't tend to go on drug fueled rampages unless they're already gone off the deep end. Unless you mean he's drugged up on Life, Mind and Time effects that give him extra dice, reduce difficulties, etc. In that case he can be really, really dangerous.
Now, a mage with the ability to drug YOU? That's scary. Best case scenario he opens your mind with super shrooms and you awaken. Second to worst he gives you the Cosby special. Worst case scenario he realizes drugging all sleeper witnesses could help offsetting paradox risks. You still get Cosby'd.

>>96156588
Depends if it's a dreamspeaker or other shaman. Awakened plants can temporarily increase a mage's sphere dots according to "The Spirit Ways".
As stupid as it sounds, an apprentice shaman that got high as balls one night could become a master for the entire duration that they also have zero self control.

>>96156562
>WtA, in fact it reinforces their abrahamic cosmology
Congrats, you're positively the single most retarded anon in the thread presently.
>every single one of them with a speck of intelligence
tracks.

And biggest problem of a Demon is precisely that it tries to assert itself over all other splats, both cosmologically, with utterly cancerous, 'but WE know better' mentality tagged on, and mechanically, by proclaiming themselves to be completely immune to all mind tricks of other supernaturals, among other things.

>>96156472
>>96156562
>>96156753
I think this makes my point for me. People can't even agree which parts fit together. Better for the books to treat them all as separate as a baseline, with one or two purely optional books facilitating crossover as your group wants it. Ruffles the least amount of feathers and allows every table to play their way.

How does a vampire visiting a new city normally go about finding out the local Princes, territories, Elysiums...? How do you respect Domain and Hospitality?

>>96156562
>>96156753
>WtA
Meant WtO. Should have just said wraith.
>And biggest problem of a Demon is precisely that it tries to assert itself over all other splats
Aaaaand you outted yourself as either a pseud or never read the book. DtF literally presents a "there is more than one reality" cosmology if you bother to read the deeper lore.
Dumbass.

Does learning the Protean discipline as out of clan give you the Gangrel weakness, like what happens with Dementation for non-Malkavians? What about the Ambombwe laibon discipline and the Akunanse weakness?

>>96156844
Your sire will explain the proceeds or will introduce you to the people that can. Everything is word of mouth in vampire society, but getting embraced a "friend" that's already established in the social group...
..Unless you're caitiff. Then you hope you get lucky or you'll Die.

>>96156844
Assuming the Sheriff/one of his bully boys doesn't find you first and threateningly point you in the right direction to where the Prince holds his court?

Go to night clubs, popular bars, anywhere mortals congregate in large numbers by night. You'll probably find another vampire there, and can ask them. "Hey dude, where's the Prince I gotta present myself." They don't really have a reason to screw you over, it lets them be your first pal in the city (who you owe a very minor solid now), not to mention if they set you up, when you inevitably get captured by the Sheriff and co, it'll be traced back to them. Once you hit up the Prince and his court, someone, probably the seneschal, harpy, or herald will give you the QRD. "Here's where the Elysiums are, these are the domains held by elders who get uppity if you feed there, and here are the local edicts besides the traditions."

All of this is if you don't "call ahead" which is more or less viable depending on how organized your clan is. When we got marooned in a new city this was more or less the outline I followed.

>>96156885
>Does learning the Protean discipline as out of clan give you the Gangrel weakness
No.
>What about the Ambombwe laibon discipline and the Akunanse weakness?
Also no.
Dementation is just special. It works by manipulating or sharing your madness, so it can't function if you aren't crazy.

>>96156888
>but getting embraced a "friend"
*getting embraced comes with a "friend"

>>96156899
Thank you, I wasn't completely sure if there could have been something about the Beast or the malleability of the body forcing the clan weakness regardless. It's good to know I didn't miss anything in that regard.

Speaking of laibon, is it just me or does the Orun of their dual morality kind of sound like Gnosis?

Has anyone ever tried to run multiple chronicles for different splats in a shared WoD location?

Basically, the characters from each chronicle (mostly) keep out of each other way due to the different themes, antagonists, masquerades, etc, but they can affect each other indirectly due to the shared environment.
Your vampire character might still need to deal with the fallout of Black Dog blowing up even if she doesn't know a player werewolf from the other chronicle destroyed it for being a Pentex front.

>>96156753
>And biggest problem of a Demon is precisely that it tries to assert itself over all other splats, both cosmologically, with utterly cancerous, 'but WE know better' mentality tagged on

This is how mage has always come off to me.

>>96156753
WoD games aren't written to be cosmologically cross compatible. They all present a version of a setting in which they're right. Read the books.

What's your favorite little known vampire discipline/ritual/path/combo/whatever? Why?

Most people know about stuff like the default applications of common disciplines, but far fewer will know about something like Bardo or Mithraic sorcery.

What made you think "oh, I didn't know about this but it sounds very interesting"?

>>96157043
>WoD games aren't written to be cosmologically cross compatible
Because the creators are cowards. It's a shame because at least half of the player base is gonna be curious about cross splat games or autistic theory crafting about how it all fits together. And you can do that stuff anyway, but you inevitably have the cut out major portions of certain splats to make it all fit together.

My secret to crossover compatibility is that I don't know enough about any splat to know where they are truly incompatible.

>>96156865
You should've not spoken at all when you have no knowledge of like half of the setting.
Of three main games, Werewolf's and Vampire's dominant mythologies clash incompatibly, but Mage pliantly adapts to both because it doesn't really have an unified mythology and has bits that fit both games. Wraith fits with Vampire and Mage. KotE despite existing as an overgrown Vampire supplement clashes with it religiously. Mummy existed as a crossover/Vampire companion splat longer than it was its own splat despite following Egyptian, not Abrahamic mythology.

All of those splats intersect and interact with no issue, werewolves and vampires for all their mythological differences are probably the most common printed crossover, and all are at times affected by overarching metaplot.

Then in Revised, in comes Demon with its delusions of omniscient grandeur and condescending layers of reality theory that nobody never needed or wanted.

>>96156657
>A Pack of Vampires are wondering why the guy who makes teeth feel like rubber when near has a whole brick of Elder Vitae Coke from the princes stash

>>96157177
>but Mage pliantly adapts to both
Mage also conflicts with itself so much that it's basic premise, consensual reality, disproves itself when taken to any logical conclusion. Mage is the worst game to hold as a standard of cosmology.

>>96157177
>Of three main games, Werewolf's and Vampire's dominant mythologies clash incompatibly, but Mage pliantly adapts to both because it doesn't really have an unified mythology and has bits that fit both games. Wraith fits with Vampire and Mage. KotE despite existing as an overgrown Vampire supplement clashes with it religiously. Mummy existed as a crossover/Vampire companion splat longer than it was its own splat despite following Egyptian, not Abrahamic mythology.
And Changeling! Changeling fits with Mage likely most, but it does have some connections with Werewolf and, in a very few places, Vampire.

>>96157249
I love Changlings version where everyone is Fae who just forgot they were Fae

>>96157228
Oh, I agree! Mage is meant to be contradictory, to adapt, not be a rigid, unyielding, 'told you so' brick.

I don't like the idea of authoritarian, definitive statement on cosmology, and the attempts to make everything fit, which should be obvious from the post. Crossover can work fine without that crap.

>>96157177
>Werewolf's and Vampire's dominant mythologies clash incompatibly
They don't though? Vampire's noddism is pretty up in the air even with the details we have. Whatever the hell caine, lilith and "god"(implied to be Adam) are is never really clear. There are also a number of things that werewolf cosmology just doesn't cover, Like the "Grand Maw" in oblivion that exists entirely separate from the triat and is at least equal to all of them.

Do Revenants have Avatars?

>>96157075
>Because the creators are cowards.
I would disagree. They aren't cowards, they just didn't plan anything ahead or ever make a new splat with crossover in mind. Earlier books were more open to crossover, but over time they realized that it just didn't work, and was only working less the more they added. So they were left with a choice, either start putting up barriers, or cut back on everyone to make them more compatible. You say it yourself
>but you inevitably have the cut out major portions of certain splats to make it all fit together.

Because they didn't think things through at the start, in order to make the baseline WoD fit together they'd have to cut out a lot of existing stuff. Some of which some people would like. So while a perfect world would've seen WoD designed ground up as a combined setting, that is not the world we got.

>>96157329
I'd rule no, and books are strongly against it, but if you're as ST, who's stopping you.

>>96157316
So why are you harping on demon specifically? Literally every splat tries to be authoritarian about cosmology vs others. VtM tries to say "lupines" are the children of lilith/ennoia, WtA tries to say the weaver made caine, changeling tries to say other nightfolk are prodigal changelines, etc. If anything DtF seems to be the only line admitting they have no idea wtf is going on(they have no idea what the umbra is and changelings scare the shit out of them).

>>96157342
Magefags hate Demon for doing the same "um actually" shit they did to everyone else.

I don't like demon and its bad paradise lost fanfic either.

>>96157322
Vampire's mythology is more or less Judaism, Werewolf's is an animistic cult working off metaphysical trinity. For all that it doesn't fucking matter in actual play, and Beckett might be right even though he comes off as a flat earth atheist. Grand Maw is something from Orpheus, hastily thrown together way after some Werewolf book could explain it - not that it needs to, Werewolf is not Demon with it's uhhh ackhchually shit, Werewolf explains only what it directly, fist to the face, connects with, and even then through the lens of the changers and spirits.

A Revenant Sidhe Kinain Kinfolk Awakens. Would she be OP?

>>96157342
Every splat, and sometimes factions within splats explain things through their own perspective and only Demon does try to be the definitive authority on how all of it comes together on the meta level. Worse off, it ignores few hard dogmas of the religious background it claims power from in its attempts to claim superiority over all others, and imposes bullshit advantages in crossover play at the baseline level.
>>96157377
That's somewhat true for new Mage (one of the reasons I dislike it). Old Mage is made of contradictory beliefs, though, so it's in no position to do that.
Um actually shit is all Demon. Demon fans just start defensively sperging out about Mage the moment their bullshit is called out, when they aren't trying to prop Demon up as the definitive answer to WoD cosmology. As if there was need for one.
>I don't like demon and its bad paradise lost fanfic either.
I like Demon as a self contained game. It just should have focused entirely on demon things and didn't try to assert superiority other other splats in any way, shape or form.

>>96157698
No. Her quintessence would be poisoned by a bunch of arbitrary resonance and she now has the Drawbacks of all things mentioned(frenzy, humanity, banality, bedlam, bane attraction, etc), all for the amazing ability to have a couple 1st level abilities that're a waste of xp for a mage.

>>96157736
>and only Demon does try to be the definitive authority on how all of it comes together on the meta level.
Changeling the Dreaming literally does this too and has been since 1e.

>>96157698
Depends on how further ST is willing to indulge the snowflake. DESU minor template stacking is very cringe-worthy, and doesn't offer that much power even if ST's willing to indulge you.

>>96157698
No. You're splitting xp way too wide on a seriously xp-hungry splat(mage). Most Gifts and Disciplines require that you pump up your attributes and abilities before they become worth much and cantrips require you buy all the realms before they become anything other then annoying to use.
All this for powers you would be able to do anyway as a mage.

I’ve been invited to a Hunters Hunted game. What am I in for? Is it fun?

>>96157759
>DESU minor template stacking is very cringe-worthy
I've seen it work, but that case was a major-splat player trying to breed npc super-soldiers using kidnapped supernaturals.
Granted, when we went over the xp math later, it turned out normal humans with numina were just better in every way. Numina mechanics stack is weirdly complimentary ways too, like how true faith increases a shih's chi pool or how mana can increase an inquisitor's true faith rating cap from 4 max to 9 max.

>>96157333
They had a great opportunity to do that with Chronicles after they ended oWoD, but I guess they didn't feel like it.

>>96157776
Paranoia, meticulous planning, and vampire murder. Have fun!

>>96157736
>Old Mage is made of contradictory beliefs, though

That doesn't stop it (or its fans for that matter) from butting in to other people's shit and trying to go "muh consensus, muh technocracy" at you.

>>96157776
You're a normal(ish) person surrounded by monsters you barely understand and most of which want you dead or worse just for knowing they exist. Enjoy!

How much fun you have will come down to how much you like urban fantasy monster hunter adventures, and how high your tolerance for bad mechanics is. If bad mechanics don't ruin your ability to enjoy TTRPGs though, you'll probably have a lot of fun.

As a normal ass human you are insanely squishy. That's your biggest thing to watch out for.

>>96157796
>I've seen it work, but that case was a major-splat player trying to breed npc super-soldiers using kidnapped supernaturals.
I'm not opposed to the story concept, but very much dislike when a player tries to pull it on themselves.
>numina were just better in every way. Numina mechanics
I think stacking is detrimental there, too. Numina mechanics need one thing to make them fun for players and better for the story, and that's complete axing of all casting costs (and reduction of XP costs proportionally to their power level, for overpriced ones).

>>96157808
nWoD/CofD is definitely better at cross-splatting (as long as you excise the cancer that is Mage) if for no other reason than there is less hard defined stuff to contradict with each other. But until the contagion chronicle which was too little too late (and a needlessly specific conceit), they never really committed to much crossover, probably out of caution.

>>96157315
>I love Changlings version where everyone is Fae who just forgot they were Fae
There was a TV series that followed that premise; I think it was called Lost Girl. Werewovles... Vampires... EVERYTHING was a fae.

>>96157315
>I love Changlings version where everyone is Fae who just forgot they were Fae
Changeling's take is quite agreeable. Probably because changelings are the most diverse by supernatural creature typesplat of them all, so it wouldn't be that much of a stretch to have more sun-scorned, furry or scaly cousins, and wizards and changelings get each other with their common struggle against mundanity as it is.

>>96157867
>As a normal ass human you are insanely squishy. That's your biggest thing to watch out for.
In some hunter games I've been to the entire table rated the player for how glorious/stupid/memorable their death was, and that's how much freebies they got for their new character.

>>96157827
I see. I’ll try not to go guns blazing

>>96157867
Oh, so basically HtP?

Not sure how I’d handle bad mechanics. The worst I had that I can remember was core books written stupidly.

To quote a goblin killing enthusiast: “Imagination is a weapon. Those who lack it are the first to die.”

So apparently Game Informer's cover story for their latest issue is on Bloodlines 2. Is there any interest in what's in that, or is all hope already lost?

>>96158049
Post an archive link, numbnuts.

>>96157955
That's actually a cool way to run a high lethality game. I'm planning on doing something similar with my Imbued Hunter PC's (they're a bit different from normal hunters in that they get supernatural powers from divine messengers). If a PC dies, they can select any mortal character they've met in the campaign to be their next Imbued Hunter. It's kinda similar to Exalted, where your higher soul finds a new host if the body dies.

>>96157120
... Then what's the point of even using the fuckers?

>>96158049
>Is there any interest in what's in that, or is all hope already lost?
The thing is hope won't be lost even after the game is released, given day 1 patches and the like people will hope for a Cyberpunk scenario where it becomes playable.

>>96158049
>thinking Paracuck will do anything with it
Lmao, lol even.

>>96158049
I still have some hope, against my better judgment.
Some of the stuff shown in the dev diaries at least has potential. Probably won't be a great game, but I'll very much welcome a decent one if we can get it.
Granted I've finished even DARK, so my opinion on the matter of vampire games is not to be taken too seriously.

>>96158055
>me when I'm a drooling moron
Best I can do is link it to you, I'm but a lurker who's new in the ways of providing paid content for free.
https://gameinformer.com/feature/2025/07/22/vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-2-cover-story

>>96157875
>that's complete axing of all casting costs
Anon, Humans with numina have too easy of a time generating frankly stupid amounts of willpower and mana/chi. A sorerer that have mana manipulation would be able to make a node just from the mana generated from meditating for a few days.

>>96157875
>but very much dislike when a player tries to pull it on themselves.
Why? The player is literally handing me story material on a silver platter. I love this shit, it make my job so fucking easy.

>>96158156
Here's the archive link: https://archive.ph/zCRxY

>>96157875
>axing of all casting costs
True Faith(DA:Inquisitor) would become far too overpowered if you did that. Conviction is both the casting pool and the xp pool for buying new powers, removing the casting part of that would lead to inquisitors becoming methusela-slying Judges within a month

>>96157177
I mean yes Demon is literally delusional, that's a big part of the setting, and how Demons are fundamentally incapable of rational existence. If they are actually "real" and what they say their history is, is true, it's almost irrelevant. Because whatever they do remember is going to be incredibly selective and biased.

I don't really see how Mage and Demon are incompatible. Book of the Fallen is a Mage supplement that makes it super easy to just apply Demon to Mage and Mage to Demon and vicea versa. You can pretty much just go "Reality is fundamentally malleable as in Mage and Demons were the original architects of shaping nothing into something and the goal of Lucifer was to Awaken humanity, make them the first Mages, and primordial archmage magic pre-sphere was Demons teaching humanity how to shape the world. Sphere magic occurred after Demons got btfo, any incongruity is due to reality being fucked after God left and also humanity's power of Consensus warping things.

My personal headcanon is that there were three main realities, Demon, Changeling, and Werewolf, and those three realities merged roughly at the same point. For Demon it was Babel, for Changeling it was the shattering of the Dreaming, and for Werewolf it was when the Wyrm was split.

Going through the mechanics for various things, has anyone else come to the conclusion that the salubri and children of osiris were one step away from solving the vampire condition if they just got the chance to share notes? The salubri had golconda down to a science and commonly had true faith, while the children of osiris had access to Bardo, a discipline could mitigate 99% of the issues for vampires on the path to golconda. The three of those things together(bardo, golconda, and true faith) essentially remove all the downsides of being a vampire and most of the limits of generation.
They were So Close...

>>96158340
We already know what happens when they reach their end goals so...

>>96158362
Becoming human? Osiris had to step in to save his nominal clan, so they didn't really achieve it, it was handed to them.
The salubri got eaten by the tremere, which I doubt was their goal given how pissed the few survivors are about the whole ordeal.

>>96158340
WoD can't have good things anon. It would get in the way of the "Personal Horror", of being a shitpire mcdonalds worker, the writers keep masturbating over

>>96158000
>Oh, so basically HtP?

If the protagonists didn't have plot armor. If you let a diablerist loose in your house, he'll just crush your skull in one swift motion. HtP is fairly similar to Hunters Hunted, they even have a joke explicitly referencing the V20 version, but I suspect the longer it goes on the more it's going to turn into a vehicle for the writer's headcanon version of WoD so don't let it shape your image of what a Hunters Hunted chronicle should look like.

As for the janky mechanics, basically combat is going to be poorly balanced and wonky. The basic rolling is serviceable enough, though you'll probably develop a severe hatred of the number 1, as every 1 you roll takes away a success. That rule also means that the better you get at something, the more likely that if you fuck it up in the first place, you'll fuck up catastrophically.

>>96158472
>the more likely that if you fuck it up in the first place, you'll fuck up catastrophically
So like real life then? The intern will make a ton of mistakes, but they're easy to fix. The Expert Accountant or Top Level researcher rarely make a mistake, but when they do it means Millions just went up in smoke.

>>96158405
>Becoming human?
Yeah we have seen how vampires may become human and what golcondo is like 3 times over.

>>96158264
Right, but it's paywalled, so it doesn't help much.
I suppose I could just summarize the article:
>Starts with Bloodlines as a cult classic, then talks about Bloodlines 2's dev hell and studio swap
>Author was with Creative Director Alex Skidmore, Narrative Director Ian Thomas, and Jason Carl of LA By Night
>protag is Phyre, also known as The Nomad, a 400 year old vampire
>You've also got a 100 year old Malk with amnesia in your head named Fabien
>You start with superhuman speed and strength, telekinesis, and an air glide (?)
>"Phyre, new to the country, asks if there are a lot of guns in America. Fabien laughs."
>In order to prevent Masquerade breaches, you guys do not, in fact, have phones
>Choose from six clans in Bloodlines 2 (4 in base game, 2 coming later as DLC); clan determines your starting skills and how you're perceived by other kindred
>Blood Resonance is in the game to make social feeding more interesting; you want to provoke particular emotions to get a particular resonance, and each resonance benefits some clans better than others
>combat feeding is like nuDOOM glory kills
>each clan has a feed passive that activates once you feed
>Seattle at Christmas time has a certain vibe
>Combat feels smooth and modernized
>Phyre can access abilities from other clan trees no matter which clan you start with, because elder
>feed on people with certain blood resonance and talk to clan contacts to unlock other clan features
>unlock every ability in a clan's tree to get their clan perk, a powerful passive
>only four slots to equip active abilities, but always have a clan perk once unlocked
>every ability from every clan has an outfit attached
>outfits affects your interactions with other characters and npcs
>Phyre's not much of a self-insert, has their own personality (dry, to-the-point)
>Fabien is enthusiastic and fascinated by the world, and talks like a cheesy noir detective
>Malk, Nos, Gangrel & Toreador are on their own page under "non-playable clans"

>>96158362
>We already know what happens when they reach their end goals
We do? Since when?

>>96158513
>Malk, Nos, Gangrel & Toreador are on their own page under "non-playable clans"
>Literally 4 of the 7 original core clans
Can whitewolf just rip off the bandage and fail already? This IP needs to either die or be sold to someone competent.

>>96158340
First thing about Golconda is the soul is no longer in the blood itself and becomes out of reach of diablerie. All of the Seven and every Salubri elder dug out by Tremere were frauds.

>>96158543
>First thing about Golconda is the soul is no longer in the blood itself and becomes out of reach of diablerie.
Anon, you're getting golconda mixed up with a 2e merit "immune to diablerie". Golconda only has 3 effects: Removes frenzy/rotschreck rolls, Remove generation cap on traits/disciplines, and lower the blood required to wake from sleep from 1/day to 1/week. It doesn't make you immune to diablerie or decouple your soul from the blood.

>>96158520
>We do? Since when?
A ToJ scenario has shown what Saulot would do with infinite power because he pulled an "All according to Keikaku" with Tremere and [Tzimisce]. Like >>96158405 said, the Osirians became human somewhen around the 2000s

>>96158590
>what Saulot would do
Saulot=/=what the salubri clan want. Mans was using them a pieces in his 4d chess game and they weren't happy with it.

>>96158340
The children of Osiris weren't particularly close, their clan disciplines was something handed to them from osiris too. The CoO literally achieved nothing and were coasting off their founder's big-dick energy from day 1.

The salubri were close though. If they managed to learn bardo and disseminate it across at least a bloodline of their clan, then there could've been a holy order of Antedeluvian level vampires waiting to stop gehenna before it even started.

>>96158513
>>96158532
>Malk, Nos, Gangrel & Toreador are on their own page under "non-playable clans"

So that leaves Brujah, Tremere, Ventrue and either Tzimisce or (more likely) Lasombra as the initial playable clans

Which ones are going to be the DLC ones? The Hecata? Assamites/Banu Haqim? Salubri? Or are they going to use one of the bloodlines?

>>96158498
That's a very specific example and more the result of their status and how much power they have rather than a consequence of being high skill. Imagine if the one time a sharpshooter misses, he brains his friend rather than just missing. Or in the rare instance a wilderness guide fucks up, he walks straight into a bear rather than just getting lost for a few hours.

>>96158722
>Imagine if the one time a sharpshooter misses, he brains his friend rather than just missing. Or in the rare instance a wilderness guide fucks up, he walks straight into a bear rather than just getting lost for a few hours.
That's exactly what happens my guy. People that're more skilled also take more risks because they know they can get away with it. It's human nature to become complacent.

>>96158340
Salubri and Children's approach to benign vampiric existence is described as fundamentally opposite. There's some twink out there with both disciplines, but in a game, if a storyteller had read the description it'd be an "or" choice.
Or I suppose a Tremere or Baali might claim the notes of both and fail at both because they seek an advantage rather than deliverance.

>>96158722
Sharpshooters are police, they're distinct from snipers because they are expected to do stuff like shoot around a hostage, they do get trusted with opportunities to fuck up that way.

>>96158705
With our luck and their woke tendencies it will be banu haquim or some other shitflake as primary.

>>96158744
>That's exactly what happens my guy.
I completely disagree. You're acting as if every person who is good at something acts like a hotshot, my shit doesn't stink, risk taker, when that simply isn't the case.

>>96158803
I wasn't saying sharpshooter in a SWAT context, I was using it as a general term for a good shot. And again, that's a specific circumstance where the risk is already high regardless of if the shooter is good or not. In oWoD you could be doing a very low risk thing but if your dice pool is high enough, while you're less likely to mess it up, you are more likely to botch if your dice pool is high.

>>96158822
>acts like a hotshot, my shit doesn't stink, risk taker,
Anon, you're getting complacency confused with arrogance. Skilled people don't take more risks because they think they're a hotshot. They do it because this is the 150th time this week they had to do an inspection and they just worked 7 hours, so skipping this one is fine right? They've done it a million time before without something happening. Same reason people get complacent after driving for 20 years and decide it'll be fine when to try to drive down the highway on less than 2 hours of sleep, because they've done it before and they're trying not to be late for something.

>>96158797
>if a storyteller had read the description it'd be an "or" choice
And all the settites are evil snake worshippers with absolutely zero bloodlines. The serpents of light absolutely don't exist at all.

The salubri were an entire clan with At Least 3 bloodlines anon. Trying to stuff them all into a singular one-note philosophy is retarded.

>>96158838
But that has no bearing on the mechanics of the tabletop RPG. In your example, the experts fuck up due to circumstances and personality. However, the botch problem is mechanical, and it's rather silly to say the mechanics are true to life when they reflect a hard mechanical reflection of ability, rather than any complacency that comes with it.

>>96158857
>when they reflect a hard mechanical reflection of ability
They really don't. The mechanics are closer to movie logic where a particle physicist is also an expert at engineering because "scientists are smart". I was also being sarcastic with that original comment.

>>96158891
>I was also being sarcastic with that original comment.
I see.

>>96158705
The initial clans were Brujah, Tremere, Ventrue, and Banu Haqim. In fact, the author picked Banu Haqim so there's a bit more info about it in the article.
>>96158820
lol, lmao

How many versions of the Assamites have we had now? None of them were any good, can we finally just give them the Ravnos treatment and be done with it?

>>96158847
Bloodlines have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with it.

It's the fundamental difference in method and mentality of gaining similar benefits (and being mistaken for each other by ill-informed, I presume). Golconda is acceptance and embrace, or a precarious balance, edition and the book depending. Bardo is denial of vampiric state of being with all your soul. And Bardo is explicitly Egyptian religion.

There are some odd characters in non-vampire books, but we can chalk that up to non-vampire writers misunderstanding things, or in-setting narrators being thoroughly uninformed (that a Tibetan Bodhisattva is a Child of Osiris is silly enough as it is, and can be freely chalked up to first years of the WoD weirdness).

>>96141955
I always just assumed it takes on a form roughly of their choosing, that or it's reflective of their beast in some way. I didn't play a tzimisce but that's how we rolled with it when one taught my Assamite the Zulo form.

>>96159033
>Bloodlines have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with it.
Anon above literally said:>>96158662
>disseminate it across at least a bloodline of their clan

>>96159033
>Bardo is
A discipline, that anyone can learn and that doesn't require adhering to the clan's personal philosophies on life. Yeah, the CoO are retarded, but you don't need to be a retard to use their disciplines.

>>96159033
>All clans need to be a strickly homogenous hive-mind based on one-note themes
I didn't know travis williams posted on 4chan.

Fuck right off and fuck you for ruin the old WoD with your half-baked snowflake clans.

>>96159016
>How many versions of the Assamites have we had now?
Way too many. The only slightly palatable were some niche dark age paths, and desu muslims don't make much sense whatsoever as vampires, anyway.
>can we finally just give them the Ravnos treatment and be done with it?
I'm all for it, except the nu-devs keep making elder Ravnos, and even before that the writers forgot that Chimerstry burned out by Ravana pulling on it to withstand all shit thrown his way and no vampire was supposed to have it any longer.

>>96159081
>the writers forgot that Chimerstry burned out by Ravana
Pretty sure the nu-writers are doing everything in their power to ignore the week of nightmares and pretend it never happened.

>>96159105
>everything in their power to ignore the week of nightmares and pretend it never happened.

Would be based if true. The Week of Nightmares was awful. Unfortunately the wod5 devs aren't ignoring it because they use it to justify the new Ravnos weakness and disciplines.

Updated this Tzimisce!

>>96159075
Showflake clans? As if Salubri weren't the snowflakiest clan ever, lol? All knowing sure way to special get out of vampirism's downside trick? Numbered just seven very special vampires, that by Revised had to be resurrected entirely because writers wanted to make more room for more special snowflakes?

Ant least Children of Osiris are just a cult anyone can join and Bardo is something anyone practising their religion can maintain.

And updated this Ventrue!

>>96159122
>Week of Nightmares was awful
Hey, it killed off Ravnos, and one of the most insufferably wanked Antediluvians before ToJ Tzimisce. And most of its suck aside from being mega-crossover was in the consequences that weren't even printed in the book.

>>96159137
Is this the final version or will there be another round of details?

>>96159142
Who's the creepy hunched over guy standing behind our noble patrician?

>>96159137
>>96159142
Nice work. Love Ventrue's pets and expression!

>>96159122
I liked the Week of Nightmares. I really enjoyed the mad chaos and the all-out warfare. Also an Antedeluvian finally doing something.

>>96159153
The Tzimisce still needs some more details frankly, not the vampire himself, but the big szlatcha and pillars.

>Who's the creepy hunched over guy standing behind our noble patrician?
Oh that's his ghoul, or rather his first ghoul, a severely hunchbacked family slave.
>>96159157
Thanks! I liked the idea that ghouls take on a cruel, vicious cast to their faces. The red eyes are just to communicate that they ARE ghouls, like the vitae swirls in their eyes, and influences how they see the world.

>>96159137
Szlachta bro in back's asymmetry is looking more purposeful now. I see defined chitinous plates instead of haphazard growths and mostly on his left like a gladiator.

>>96158303
I do love me some Numina/Sorcery mortal awesomeness. Is most of that in Mage and Hunter books? Could you recommend some splat books for Sorcery, at least? Fandom does have some Paths written, but very very little

>>96159197
It was basically, in my initial vision, intended to be like a "cape" made from calloused flesh. You know like those shoulder capes that used to be pretty popular. It has the added benefit of giving him absurd protection for his size from blows coming downwards, which given that he's a midge, even for a dwarf, is going to basically be all of the attacks he will face.
You could smack him down with a sledgehammer and he would barely feel a thing, his huge conical skull deflecting most blows down onto his huge "pads".

>>96159054
>>96159062
Bardo is very explicitly tied to mindset, philosophies, meditations, the rigid adherence even to life style of the cult, it's write-up talks mostly about that; that and Bardo's mindset being opposite to one needed to achieve Golconda.
Anyone can learn it just by following cult practices, well, religiously, but it can't be disseminated through blood because it isn't developed through blood, and it cannot be stacked with Golconda.

>>96159150
>>96159161
The mega crossover is the primary reason I dislike it so. It can only work if you include all parties involved, and I don't like most of those parties. I also believe it somewhat stretches the credulity of the Masquerade.

Something big finally happening in the modern day is fine in concept, but I think The Week of Nightmares executed it very poorly. Zappy being a rampaging rage monster was about the most boring way they could've done an Antediluvian waking up.

>>96159233
Yeah, but, just like everything else about Vampire, its bullshit blood magic mixed with a desperate soul praying for salvation from a biblical disease. It cannot *yet* be stacked, but if a powerful named character did a complicated chronicle-long ritual with enough successes, it could. Just like everything else. Nothing is set in stone when it comes to Vampires, its the biggest theme of their gameline, they talk as if they are stasis incarnate, like time and causality completely ignores them and leaves them behind, unchanged for a millennium, when its the exact opposite. The blood of Cain is the most mutable thing in existence

Fuck the haters, the Week of Nightmares was an awesome crossover
>Ravnos Antediluvian awakens
>Bangladesh gets FUCKED UP
>The Technocracy gets to put their money where their mouth is
>Kuei-jin get show they’re not just the “Asian Vampires”
>An entire Guardian Order of the Celestial Chorus gets obliterated
>Sixth Great Maelstrom happens
The True Black Hand realizing how fucked they truly are when they realized the Antediluvian just IGNORED them
>Opened trods releasing the Adhene back into the Waking World
>Caused cracks in the Abyss, leading to the Fallen returning to Earth

I have a sneaking suspicion that the people who hate it are WtAfags whom are jealous that their splat did jack shit and had no part in its outcome.
>Uh ackshully, the Perfect Metis was born duri-
Shut up, we all know that was just a throwaway line just to include the Garou

>>96159217
NTA.
Hunters Hunted (original) for KISS basics.

Sorcerer for sorceries (enchanting, brewing, shape-shifting and so on). Remove Willpower costs.

Sorcerer Revised for bigger roster of Psionic Numina and more ways to game the system, but also jank and mostly unnecessary ties to mage and least good aspects of playing Mage. Remove Willpower costs, keep a tight check on hanged spells and other cheese potential.

Inquisitor for Deusvulting - as anon said above this is one game that can be broken by removing costs, so don't do that here.

Demon Hunter X for non-MtA weaboo fighta magic and cybernetics (I strongly suggest at least a basic one-week tick of Time of Judgement p163 Chi rules, so your players don't wound themselves any time they use powers).

All other books are redundant far as the systems go, but lore can be better (Arcanum beats Sorcerer Revised any day).

>>96159297
I'm a vampfag bro. Most of your points do nothing for me because I'd simply rather not have those other games at my table.

>>96159303
Sorcerers need basic instructions to be able to kiss each other and other supernaturals? Vampires can just do it near-instinctually. Werewolves could use some notes, though, they keep killing all their cousins instead of hugging them

>>96159297
Love me giant sunbeam.

>>96159297
>I have a sneaking suspicion that the people who hate it are WtAfags whom are jealous
Nah. Woofs are chill. On this at least, they fiercely hate Demon for very obvious reasons.

Most people who hate WoN are Chimerstry gypsies, ante wankers and other vampfags, Technocracy haters and Mage haters, KotE haters, Nagah haters and general crossover haters. The last two I somewhat respect.

Where the slutty Wiccan Tremere women at?

>>96159282
>Zappy being a rampaging rage monster was about the most boring way they could've done an Antediluvian waking up
Actually it's the ONLY way that makes sense, because he woke up starved and in a madness of confusion. Anything else and he would have absolutely RAPED everyone else present and would have been this side of invincible.
>>96159297
I'm a big WtA fan, despite my recent spate of vampire drawings, and WoN is the first in-canon event that I recall really enjoying and it sucked me into WoD.

>>96159137
>>96159142
Exceptional art as always.

>>96159358
Thanks! I'm thinking of doing some Werewolf or Wraith next, to not get burnt out on VtM.

>>96159350
If you subscribe to the notion that Antediluvians are nigh-invincible gods perhaps. Which I personally do not. Very powerful, yes, but this side of invincible? I don't see it. The guy from the illusion clan rampaging in a very prolonged frenzy? Just feels like wasted potential to me.

I understand the appeal of big, crazy, everyone going wild events. But I don't like most of the players involved nor the execution of the event.

>>96159344
Busy worshipping Lilith

>>96159383
Yes, the Antedeluvians basically are (un)living gods on Earth. And the whole point was to show that if one did start walking around at FULL power, no mortal stands a chance.
Zapathasura wasn't at full power. Not even close.

>Pooka girl I fucked says it was the best sex she ever had
Something you virgins will never understand hehe

>>96159431
>Pooka says
Anon, I...

>>96159431
>Pooka girl
Anon...

>>96159421
I disagree with this reading of them. Not to ape that one guy who loudly brings it up every time there's a power wank-off, but we do have example dot 10 discipline powers. While impressive, they aren't that godlike. But if we put that aside, there's still much evidence pointing to the Antediluvians being incredibly powerful, but not invincible.

Let's look at The Eldest, ol' Tzimisce prime. The majority of his own clan rose up against him, led by Lugoj Blood-Breaker. With one notable exception, the Tzimisce believe Lugoj succeeded in destroying the Antediluvian. We the reader know better. The Eldest was never under any threat from Lugoj, seamlessly destroying and impersonating him. That begs the question however, why did The Eldest bother to fake its own Final Death? Why hide? And this goes for all the other ones too. Why do they hide from their childer, from humanity? Because even they are vulnerable, and to more than just other Antediluvians.

Cappadocious was killed by Augustus Giovanni, though Augie fucked up the diablerie. Illyes, the original Brujah, was overthrown by Troile, his childe. Are we to chalk their lack of taking over the world as a sign of even bigger fish keeping them in line? If that's the case, why did these forces stand idly by during Zapathasura's country level frenzy?

>>96159482
>Are we to chalk their lack of taking over the world as a sign of even bigger fish keeping them in line?
Yes, and his name is Caine.

>>96159504
Are you shitposting or serious? Caine ain't policing his grandchildren for shit anymore. He did nothing to stop Zappy, hasn't interceded in the affairs of his children since cursing the third generation, and even in the prophecy of Gehenna he lets the Antediluvians have a good 1000 years of darkness before finally coming to judge them. Caine's a burnout that just wants it all to end but can't bring himself to admit he made a mistake.

>>96157228
It also clashes with W:tA on the basis of how important, or not, humans are held up as in either game.

>>96159434
>>96159458

So which part do you think was the lie and which was the truth?

>>96159601
Clearly, the pooka told anon two lies.

>>96159549
In defense of Caine, the world is probably Qlippothic waste already and there's not a lot of point to redemption.

What if the reason the Fallen seem to Abrahamic and have memories of a Garden of Eden entirely because of Consensus warping them in the Abyss, both physically and mentally, because two of the three dominant world religions and another significant one all believe in Genesis? But because Islam diverges from Judaism after that, that’s why Demons don’t have a consistent belief in what happened after. Consider, what REALLY came first? The red smiling Devil with a horn tail and goatee, or the human conception of that which warped the Spirit to fit with Consensus?

>>96160443
What if I had a Fianna Ahroun GF suck my dick on a daily basis?

>>96160443
All Mage players and writers should be put to death.

>>96159233
>it cannot be stacked with Golconda.
Bullshit. Achieve golconda first and then learn bardo.
On top of that, No. An ST that tries to say that a discipline can determine a character's entire lifestyle is getting kicked from the table while I take over for ST. You do not need to be part of a religion to learn a discipline, it's a fucking discipline.

>>96154066
qrd?

>>96159217
Sorcerer Revised, Dark Ages: Inquisitor, and Demon Hunter X gives you the basics of every numina in their best forms.
The anon trying to say you need to houserule everything is just objectively wrong, Sorcerers get to cast spells and rituals 2 dot below their max for free by the normal rules(meaning a sorcerer with a path of 5 can already cast 3 dot spells for free).

>>96159344
Verbena stole them all

As someone not hyper-informed in the rules of CofD, would I regret letting my players have free access to the Hurt Locker book? There's no feature creep or anything to worry about for use in an HtV game?

>>96161009
>would I regret letting my players have free access to the Hurt Locker book?
Hurt Locker is fine. Just don't let them buy the lesser templates, and take a look at what they buy.

>>96161125
Thanks anon, I was worried about powercreeping myself into trouble.

>>96159344
You're looking for the Bahari anon. The tremere are hermetic, they don't really tolerate subservient magic like wicca. Not being the one in the driver seat of every deal with external powers is pretty much equal to infernalism in their eyes.

>>96160870
>>96161458
>they don't really tolerate subservient magic like wicca
Yeah are all the fun sex-cults women centraic? Why do men centric magic cults have to be organized and responsible? Why was crowley a unique case?
Life isn't fair to male warlocks.

What would you say are the pros and cons of each VtM clan not in terms of mechanics, but as groups to belong to?

>>96162162
>Pros: Nothing
>Cons: Everything
That's it, that's all the clans.

>>96159137
>>96159142
Those are beautiful, anon!

>>96159142
Nice. Two hours of rendering this and it should be good.

>>96160870
You don't need to houserule everything, you just need to ignore pointless jank that adds nothing but wasted time to the game.
>Sorcerers get to cast spells and rituals 2 dot below their max for free by the normal rules(meaning a sorcerer with a path of 5 can already cast 3 dot spells for free).
At diff 9, with minuscule success (don't forget that revised sorcerers need to split successes), see how long it would last before they botch, and Sorcerer's botchers tend to be more unpleasant than other splat's. Sure, you can buy and spend mana, but that's just more pointless jank for a minor task that brings you back to the starting point, why not just ignore all that altogether?
Few threads back you tried to bullshit that sorcerers beat everyone by hanging several spells as they want ignoring that hanged spells cumulatively increase difficulty for EVERY roll, which effectively cripples them in play if they stack.

>>96160443
That's all neat and tidy until you consider vampires, whom give shit-all about consensus, are abrahamic-derived.

>>96162853
>>96160443
Nobody but mages gives shit about consensus.

More important is the fact that Vampires flat out ignore Abrahamic faith symbols.
Unless they held by a rare fanatic, and then it's not important at all that they're Abrahamic, but that he believes in something real hard.

>>96157736
>That's somewhat true for new Mage
Not even, the actual books make less of that kind "actually this how it works" statement than say 1e Vigil (you can force Woofs into shifting back to human with flashing lights lol) or the trashfire that is Beast (you're all our cousins, you totally unrelated lot of monsters and wierdos)
It's mage fans that, trained to be insufferable by oMage, tried to fit the other splats in Awakening's cosmology. So once again, it's Ascension's fault
>>96157886
>But until the contagion chronicle
If for whatever reason you want to do CofD/Nwod crossovers, throw the Contagion chronicles in the trash and just make up the interactions for the splats your group is gonna be composed of. Contagion is legitimately worse than just winging it or even asking anons here for advice.

>>96157329
Doesn't Vitae stop you from gaining arete? because if that is the case then they probably do but can't awaken since they can never go from arete 0 to arete 1 unless they can get rid of the automatic vitae production

>>96162030
>Why do men centric magic cults have to be organized and responsible?
fun fact Wicca was invented by a moid

>>96163062
Edition depending. In first and second editions ghoul mages existed with no issues, ghoul mage downsides are a retcon introduced in Revised edition book Blood Treachery.
So, as of Blood Treachery, yes, and not only that, but vitae destroys mage's Avatar over time.

I don't like template stacking, but I do think that the retcon has been handled very poorly. They should've changed it so that vitae is tass, nothing more, nothing less, and confers no ability to gain disciplines, nor any other effect whatsoever to mages.

>>96163144
Oh, and writers in any edition are strongly against letting revenants awaken, but I'd allow that on the condition that revenant in question is committed to leaving all things Vampire behind.
One or the other, choose.

>>96141708 (OP)
I want to know if this is a stupid or lorebreaking idea, so help is appreciated in refining or explaining it.

Can you use "Presence" discipline to project an aura of absolute boredom?
On lore you can make your presence terrifying, attracting, emboldening, ect. But can you generate a "Someone elses problem" field with it for ad-hoc social invisibility?

>>96163255
>Can you use "Presence" discipline to project an aura of absolute boredom?
Combination power of Obfuscate 2 + Presence 2. I'd allow it as a Majesty subversion as well. And don't worry too much about lore if you are a ST, and worry about persuading your ST rather than lore if you are a player.

>>96163255
That's pretty much how Obfuscate works in the first place

>>96163093
And it was a completely different thing back then.

>>96163093
>>Why do men centric magic cults have to be organized and responsible?
You could say modern health cookery and gymbro-chemics act in ways of mystery cults, and are as incoherent and inconsistent than whatever wicca wymin cults do.

They believe they have found secret knowledge, experiment with it and often illegal chemicals for mysterious powers, with hilarious consequences. The lunatics shooting up horse-testerone into their balls act as alchemists or mysticists in the past did.

>>96163062
vitae poisons the avatar, you're better off using it as tass than eating it and becoming a degen blood addict

>>96163144
>vitae destroys mage's Avatar over time
instead of gilguling nephandi and creating widderslainte, mages should. just destroy their avatars with vitae.

>>96163453
gilguling a nephandi stops the next person becoming a widderslante, that's why they gilgul them instead of just killing them

>>96163453
>>96163473 is right, they're gillgulling nephandi so their Avatar doesn't just jump to another host.

But the problem with vitae method is that while it destroys unawakened and recently awakened's potential easily, it's kinda slow the stronger's the Avatar more advanced mage is (and might not even be a thing edition depending) while also somewhat empowering them and making them harder to contain.

DESU if you can restrain a nephandus for good you should destroy its mind and ability to function, and only then try to call a Spirit master (Spirit mastery is generally not an investment you can afford, and committing gilgul might piss off your own Avatar).

If I were a Spirit Master I'd try and work on unfucking the corrupted Avatar, but removing nephandus' ability to think, function and self-destruct is a must.

>>96161257
The only manoeuvre I would be worried about is Headbutt because stuns are bullshit.

>>96160518
nta you’re referring to, but I hope you don’t mean my character!

So... how many dots in and in what spheres would be needed to un-fuck a nephandus avatar?
Like, not turn him (the neph mage) back to good, mind you. I mean simply undoing the corruption so that the next person in the cycle of reincarnation to get that avatar is not a widderslainte.
I'm assuming something like 6+ Prime and Spirit? Maybe closer to 8-9?

>>96163453
>>96163621
would be easier just to let them be embraced since that also destroys the avatar

>>96163765
I don't know, just thought it would be worthy downtime pursuit. Like months and years of research, observation and experimentation, interaction with the tainted Avatar and tailoring the ritual for it specifically. Not just Prime 5 Mind 5 Spirit 5 extended casting, poof, done.

No archspheres, though. I don't like the way MoA handled archspheres and don't like 6+ stuff in general. I would take 6th dot if we're playing the archmage game and I must, but it'd be one sphere ever and I won't buy another or anything over that.

>>96163765
mage leaves the possibility of undoing the caul pretty ambiguous, but in one case the caul seems to have been undone by an archmage
presumably i think the most important thing is that it can't be forcibly done to a nephandus, they have to choose to not be evil much in the same way they chose the caul in the first place. in the case where it's undone, the nephandus hesitates in killing the archmage long enough for him to kill her, and seemingly her avatar returned to normal on her next reincarnation as Amanda Jonsson, whom is featured in a few of the short stories in earlier editions.

>>96163794
Almost certainly, yeah. But due to how embrace of mages functions you have to be ready to deal with a vampire that has several unpredictably nasty disciplines,and even staking him might not be enough. Also, he might become a wraith. Happened three times on my watch, be ready for it, else he might kill some of you before you destroy him for good.

>>96163473
>>96163621
i am a fool who never read anything mage related but the void engineer convention book, so thanks for the enlightenment deviants.

>>96162968
Demons absolutely care about Consensus. They call it Disbelief and instead of generating Paradox it raises difficulty for them to use their Lores or enter Apocalyptic Form. Which actually just implies even more that Mages are beget from Demons who taught them how to use their Lores but the human Creative Spark made them so much more flexible where the Demon Lores were Laws.

>>96163996
Every day the "Lucifer created Avatars using the fragments of dead angels" schizo theory makes more sense.

>>96163993
Nah, you aren't a fool, you just don't know much about one game of many, yet.
You're willing to learn and admit lack of knowledge, anon, and that makes you way smarter than the bunch of frothing idiots that argue in this general every week.

>>96160443
Demons are just fae that got mindraped into believing in God.

>>96162853
>whom give shit-all about consensus
What do you think the Masquerade is? You think in the 600 years since its start the leeches have actually been able to cover up every single breach? The truth is, the moment they go public they'll be undone by Paradox.

>>96164351
Dreaming supremacy? In WoD General?

>>96164028
the avatars are angel fragment stuff is sadly not just a schizo theory. it's directly stated in one of the dtf fiction novels when a demon first meets a mage and is horrified

>>96164737
>demon first meets a mage and is horrified
natural reaction desu

I think for the Hunter’s Hunted game I will go with the classic: a priest hunter

I looked up what church organization exists in WoD. Mainly the Society of Leopold, and minor ones like the Society of Saint-George/Knights of Saint-George. Don’t know who does what and specializes in what… I was thinking of just a regular guy with a shotgun.

>>96164737
you sure he didn't just smell him

>>96164817
Needn't be SoL.
A regular priest might become a hunter org leader, if, say, a clearly abused kid stumbles in, confesses to drinking blood and doing bad things for a vampire. Especially if the kid winds up on the missing person notice after. Give him something like Charisma, Intelligence and True Faith 4, and make him fanatical, but also cunning and caring for his flock enough that he won't have them fight head on.

It might be a senior police officer who can see evidence of vampire's corruption and very cautiously investigates to learn what they are and how they can be turned against each other.

It might be someone who's got exposed to vampire feeding, stalked and ate a vampire, received their clan discipline package and got it in their head that if they diablerize (not that they know the term) enough vampires they gain all of their powers without any drawbacks.

It could be a budding warlock searching for scraps of occult knowledge.

Or, of course, it could be just random trucker with a shotgun and a grudge.

>>96164351
Funny idea but I choose not to believe it because I don’t like Changeling as a setting

>>96162472
>At diff 9
Not if you ritual cast most things extending the time taken to cast magic allows you to negate the difficulty increase for costless casting. Seriously, most of the mechanics seem to be balanced around casting most spells as rituals and hanging them for later, essentially making "sorcerers" in WoD mandatory prepared casters like a D&D wizard. Spells are next to useless compared to hanging a ritual.
That's also before we get into mana, which unlike mages, sorcerers can generate out of thin air just by meditating.
>ignoring that hanged spells cumulatively increase difficulty for EVERY roll
Anon, nobody uses sorcerer 20. Few magefags even use M20 with how dogshit it is. I was talking about revised, the only good version of sorcerer.
I've also never said they "beat everybody". True Faith hunters/DA:Inquisitors kick the shit out of sorcerers any day of the week.

>>96164737
demon stomping over every other gamelines metaphysics and themes, seems about right

>>96165081
>nobody uses sorcerer 20.
It's worse than that, even Mage 20 doesn't use sorcerer 20. Sorcerer 20 wasn't part of the original plan, so most of the M20 books reference sorcerer revised. It's literally non-canon even in it's own edition.

Kill Mage players. Behead Mage Storytellers. Cook Mage writers into a wok.

>>96165230
>Cook Mage writers into a wok.
i don't think i want to touch goat boy let alone eat him

>>96165230
>into a wok
Even the chinese glowies hate mages!

>>96165081
Out of curiosity, where in the Sorcerer Revised is that rituals negating difficulty rule stated? And IIRC cumulative concentration penalty thing is the default part of the hanging rules, not M20 or whatever.

>>96164942
I like your priest idea. Might roll with it and mash it with the shotgun exorcist

>>96162472
>>96165081
There's more to it than either of you are getting at.
>Hanging spells
Hanging does provide a difficulty modifier in revised, it's just limited to mental/social. It doesn't interfere with direct combat, but your sorcerer isn't doing any research or social rolls in the social game if he's hanging spells every day.
>Extended rolls
You're getting ritual rules mixed up with "taking extra time" rules in mage. Sorcerers don't get a bonus for taking longer to cast a spell/ritual.

>>96165081
>I was talking about revised, the only good version of sorcerer.
Anon, sorcerer revised is 60% suggested houserules. The book can't even agree with Itself on how sorcerers should work.
The "Hanging Spells" section literally has 3-4 different hanging mechanics with different requirements and penalties.

>>96165461
>Hanging does provide a difficulty modifier in revised, it's just limited to mental/social. It doesn't interfere with direct combat, but your sorcerer isn't doing any research or social rolls in the social game if he's hanging spells every day.
Social/Mental rolls can constitute 90% of Sorcerer's rolling, casting included, since it ain't Werewolf, but you can stomach +1 for two spells on a day divined or othervise promising to be very hairy.

OTOH teleporters and shapeshifters can turn themselves into drooling retards cause their specialities roll off physical attributes, and the former contributes a-plenty by being cabal's bicycle.

>>96165661
Wouldn't the guy hanging spells just pre-roll all their spells before the combat? The only issue would be dispelling hostile magic, since it procs of intelligence. Everything else would be physicals.
However, hanging spells is still worse than just having some temporary buffs from items and rituals to bring your sorcerer's mundane abilities to superhuman levels instead. No point in using hellfire to cast fireball when you can use a ritual to add extra dice of fire damage to your firearm's normal dicepool.

>>96165482
More like hanging rules on the left, suggestions on the right, separate blocks. And more suggestions in every other unit.

>>96165730
All sorcerer paths except Conjuration/Conveyance and Shapeshifting roll off Mental and Social attributes, modifier applies, diminishing returns, higher risk of a botch, even if ST lets you take Mana, so stacked hanging should happen only on real bad days.

And yes, Enchantment and Brewing/Alchemy is more reliable, but hanging happens on top of that, with Conveyance specialist on standby to pull you out.

>>96165230
aw man
:(