Skyline Edition
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>Thread Question:
How do you handle Merits and Flaws? Do you always take the maximum amount of Flaws for those juicy Freebies?

>>96166620 (OP)
>How do you handle Merits and Flaws? Do you always take the maximum amount of Flaws for those juicy Freebies?
Yes. Why wouldn't you?

Have any of you euro-fucks used/read/played the Aachen by night Dark Ages book before? I'm looking for a good city book set in europe and between this and the France by Night book, I'm torn between two never translated, never gonna be translated pieces of possible peak.

>>96165804
And yes, Enchantment and Brewing/Alchemy is more reliable, but hanging happens on top of that, with Conveyance specialist on standby to pull you out.
Anon isn't even talking about enchantment and alchemy. Every path is capable of creating magic items and temporary buffs. Path of hellfire has rituals for enchanting swords and making yourself immune to an element, Mana manipulation lets you make mana potions and paraphts, fortune lets you curse objects, etc. Any sorcerer that doesn't have some buff/item rituals in their path is a moron.

>>96166752
>And yes, Enchantment and Brewing/Alchemy is more reliable, but hanging happens on top of that, with Conveyance specialist on standby to pull you out.
This was supposed to be greentext

So, there's an "official" Vampire x Cyberpunk crossover.
This has inspired me to try making something: Mage x Mekton crossover.

>>96166620 (OP)
>How do you handle Merits and Flaws? Do you always take the maximum amount of Flaws for those juicy Freebies?
Lucky, Self-Confident, True Faith are banned for non-humans. Companion-type merits are restricted unless you have a really good reason to have one. Nothing from Dirty Secrets and its equivalents, nothing from 20th anniversary. Anything else is allowed, but can and will be lost in play if abused too badly.

As for myself, whatever makes sense. Usually there's a reason to have four-seven points of Flaws, but an average Joe wouldn't really have a reason to have Merits, no important ones in any case.

>>96166620 (OP)
>How do you handle Merits and Flaws? Do you always take the maximum amount of Flaws for those juicy Freebies?
I tend to only focus on one or two flaws that are especially important to my character's story. My last character only had three points worth of Flaws, but had five points in languages and Blush of Health for Merits.

My Brujah character for the LARP I played in barely had anything - the first two dots in Combat Marksmanship (it was Requiem mechanics in Masquerade setting) and a smuggler contact from his mercenary days as I recall.

My Sabbat character from when V20 first released was loaded up with Flaws though, filling pretty much all the traditional vampire weaknesses. The inability to cross running water was the one that came up most frequently - fun times!

>>96166620 (OP)
Vulnerability to Silver is the best flaw, I would never make a vamp without the risk of getting shanked by something from the antique china cabinet.

All done with this fella! He is now ready to be unleashed into the Night

Sex with Sabbat women

>>96167883
>blood fetish whores bearing every known STD, and several unknown ones
No thanks, I'd rather do a gargoyle or sluagh.

Supernaturals with no alternate form
>Vampires Shut up about the Fiends! SHUT UP ABOUT THE FIENDS!!!
>Mages
>Wraith
>Mummies
>Imbued

Supernaturals with an alternate form
>Werewolves (Crinos)
>Changelings (Fae Mien)
>Demons (Visage)

>>96162968
More talking about Caine being an abrahamic figure.

>>96164383
Something to keep themselves safe from another inquisition, or if you follow cross-splat, avoid the ire of the technocracy that does give a shit about consensus.
It's why methuselahs and antideluvians give less of a shit about it.

>>96168050
>Vampires Shut up about the Fiends! SHUT UP ABOUT THE FIENDS!!!
Gangrel (fursona and elements), Tremere (The Infamous Vampiric Lawn Chair and various personal elementals, depending on the Paths), Lasombra (oogabooga shadow) and Setites (sneks and Set-thing) beg to differ.
>Mages
Life (+ any other Sphere for non-biological things).
>Wraith
Moliate, one of the powers allows you to dramatically assume your altform, even. Also Flux and (technically since it's involuntary) soul-forging.
>Mummies
Some niche powers exist, but I don't remember the names, and they probably don't qualify for a full-fledged second form.
>Supernaturals with an alternate form
You forgot Wan Kuei, who shapeshift better than vampires (and all have their own demon form long before demons had), and Sorcerers who have a whole path dedicated to Shapesifting.

>>96166858
>t. I'm too hardcore for world of derpness I wish it sucked more!

>>96168100
Pretty sure he meant supernaturals that don't have an alternate form by default. For example, you can make a Gangrel/Tzimisce/Lasombra/Setite that plain doesn't put any dots in his main clan discipline, and thus doesn't have access to those forms. For the ones that have the forms by default, you need to probably buy flaws just to lose it, which is essentially a disability.

>>96168109
If he meant default why would he bring up the Tzimisce at all?

>>96168139
Because you know someone would go
>Ackshully, the Zulo form
But that’s only one Clan, out of like, fourteen.

>>96168202
But Zulo isn't default. It's a tremendously overrated ability.

>>96167196
Nice art, but all tzis must be leashed and muzzled when in public places.

Since the topic came up... how would you rank the not-alt form discipline powers?
Specifically:
-Black Metamorphosis; Tenebrous form (Obtenebration)
-Shape of the beast; Mist form (Protean)
-Horrid form; Blood form (Vicissitude)

>>96168301
In order you listed them.
Shadow is dangerous and defensible, top.
Shape is sneaky and really mobile and Mist is defensible.
Zulo is a decent persistent buff, I guess.
None of them are bad.

>>96168301
>>96168316
Blood form is inferior to both mist and shadow unless you get acid elder power (which would render you unable to maintain ghouls and make childer), but also not bad.

>>96168333
What are your thoughts on the 4th level powers?

>>96168316
>>96168316
All decent, like I said. Zulo/Horrid Form is a decent lasting buff, Black Metamorphosis is a fantastic grapple/debuff combat form, and Shape of the Beast is sneaky and can fly Groundbound animal is alright too because it's more inconspicuous and isn't any weaker, but flight is very useful.

DESU the only really crappy vampire shapeshiftng and fourth dot power is 4-dot Elemental Form (LMAO) from Path of Elements, it's known as the vampire couch for a reason. Because it doesn't do anything but turn you into an immobile boulder or furniture, no durability, no concealment, nothing. At fourth dot it's a miserable waste of a ton of XP for something rituals or Obfuscate dip do much better (and other paths let you turn into/hide inside elementals that move, fight and are resistant to sun and fire).

>>96168410
>>96168339

>>96167196
Very good

>>96166620 (OP)
>How do you handle Merits and Flaws? Do you always take the maximum amount of Flaws for those juicy Freebies?
IG I just balance it out, but if i make a specific character maybe I need to put max flaws, like once I made a tremere "stuck in the past" so it was unable to live in the modern world and lived like it was 1700.
Anyway I was looking at the fan games of WOD and I stumbled upon Highlander, maybe I'll make a oneshot or bishot out of it for 3/4 players, maybe I'll make a story inspired by the tv series of the 4 horsemen of apocalypse or some mythologycal quartet.

>>96166620 (OP)
>Do you always take the maximum amount of Flaws for those juicy Freebies?
Of course! I always need more freebies to buy cool merits- and there are so many of them!

>Paradox didn't exist before the Order of Reason started spreading the science paradigm
is... is Paradox an artificial invention of the Order of Reason?

>>96167196
>that monster in the front

>>96168749
>is... is Paradox an artificial invention of the Order of Reason?
Creator of the Mage Wieck intended for Paradox spirits to cooperate with/take marching orders from the Technocracy.
Brucato, the guy that took over, didn't like that and covertly noped it away.

>>96168749
I think logically something like that would have appeared anyway as population grows, and their collective beliefs have more and more "weight". Of course, you could argue it was the Order of Reason who made population growth possible, which would fit into Mage writers' worldview.

>>96166775
That sounds interesting, but also very difficult to accomplish.
Would you be merging the Jovian Chronicles setting too, or just have Mages with robots? How would you handle the more "luddite" Traditions like Verbena and Dreamspeakers?

Hunter Vigil campaign started out pretty well. The PCs took shelter in a house where a Ghost manifested after hearing the crying of a child. It brain-blasted three of the party to suffer PoV sensations of its grisly murder, and the PCs resolved to find the Slasher responsible and bring it to justice, hopefully putting the ghost to rest. Its Bans and Banes are that it must respond to the crying of a child, and that it cannot penetrate or move through a plastic surface (the bin bags her body is in).

They began their investigaiton with some reading on occult matters, while the other cellmembers did some more hands-on investigating. They learned the Slasher had a previous victim before the Ghost, and also rang up the Ghosts family to ask where her body was buried. There was no body to bury. With some clues assembled, they've reasoned that the Slasher is one of the towns binmen and must work in or near the town dump. All in all, I'm very excited to continue.

>>96169455
Sounds pretty good Anon! Please tell me whats to come for the PCs. I'm more of a H5 person (yes, i know its trash) but still doing small stuff for the moment because our days off dont' make it more than oneshot adventures.

>>96169758
>I'm more of a H5 person (yes, i know its trash)
Then why are you a H5 person?

>>96169758
>I'm more of a H5 person (yes, i know its trash
Didn't try it yet, I'm not that fond of the Imbued concept, and V5/W5 seems to have the very worst way of implementing necessary changes and making unnecessary ones besides.

Why do you like it and why it is trash? (I don't judge, I'm a HoL player, and that game was made to be as shitty as possible on purpose)

>>96169758
I can't comment on H5 unfortunately.
We're all still getting a bit of a feel for the characters right now. We have a young single mother who inherited a spooky bookshop, a PE Teacher, a train conductor and a game-hunter old-money type of character. Right now there's not much more to them than that.

The Town they're in is under the thumb of a Puppeteer Slasher called Red, who has developed (or discovered) a mathematical formula that can predict if somebody will become tainted by the Supernatural. And as a former member of Task Force: Valkyrie, he's culling the herd to eliminate the Supernatural in town. He has a bunch of other Slashers working for him (though they don't know this necessarily), and they're out on the town killing people that Red has selected. Each murder has a hidden clue within it that will lead the PCs to Red if they can piece the puzzle together, but on its own it's meaningless. One person was killed exactly at sun-rise, and died under a window where the Sun would have caught them (this person was going to become a Vampire or Ghoul), a corpse is buried in a graveyard surrounded by an iron fence to stop Fae from stealing the corpse. That sorta thing.

If the PCs don't pay attention to these clues, they'll just find more and more Slashers occurring in town to carry out Red's bidding. But eventually there'll be one obvious clue (I'm thinking an obviously Silver weapon because there's no real way to hide that something is Silver and not have the PCs immediately cotton on to it) that may send them back to old crime scenes to find similar clues.

Currently I have Eleven Slashers prepared, some are more active than others and a few haven't arrived in town just yet. There'll also be some regular monsters thrown in for variety.

Pic related is the town map for the campaign, it's being run online.

>>96168211
I only like it cause it looks cool, conceptually

Fucking finally we have Volgirre bloodline.
And the loresheet is actually good coming from a Renegade material. Congrats to whoever wrote it.

>Frenzy/Wassail means the vampire is a PCP'd u retard who runs into an obvious ambush because it saw someone it wanted to kill
I want this stupid misconception to die.

>>96170828
Frenzy often means literally that. Wassail is just the final Frenzy a vampire ever experiences before sinking into the bottomless abyss of the wight.
So yes, both Frenzy and Wassail can mean blindly attacking whatever is in front of you. Sometimes.

>>96169804
Because I don't like the imbued really and I don't like the differences with Chronicles of Darkness system. H5 is easy and its really quick to catch up with friends.

>>96169888
>Why do you like it and why it is trash?

I like it because it's easy to digest. The format is more "recent" for newer player because my friends are not 40+ y/o and we like the setting presented in H5.

I think is trash because they didn't (or couldn't) keep the cool changes that Vigil and all their source books gave the game. Is pretty simple and easy to digest and sometimes that's a downer, for me, i try to be optimistic and try to adapt content that i like from HtR and HtV to the H5 format and homebrew a bit of OC.

I would recommend H5 for new people to the WoD universe and how it is presented. It can also help people to look back at the 20th stuff wich is better gameplaywise.

>>96170614
I suddenly feel compelled to play a Dr. Steinman type character or at least make a minor villain for a story.
>What can I do with this one, Aphrodite? She - won't - stay - still! I want to make them beautiful, but they always turn out wrong! That one… too fat! This one… too tall! This one… too symmetrical!

>>96170424
Sounds pretty good Anon, and fun too! Hope it goes well. Don't worry of the H5, as the newest from of the WoD corebooks, is not very good in comparison but in a vacum is pretty cool and great for beginners in the WoD universe.

>>96166752
>Every path is capable of creating magic items and temporary buffs.
Wait, so wtf is the point of enchanting/alchemy if you can make magic swords and +X to strength without them?

>When the NWO White Suit processes you into loving progress and the Technocracy and saving you from the Reality Deviants' corruptive influence
I LOVE MY TECHNOCRATIC-MANDATED GIRLFRIEND
I LOVE MY TECHNOCRATIC-MANDATED GIRLFRIEND
I LOVE MY TECHNOCRATIC-MANDATED GIRLFRIEND
I LOVE MY TECHNOCRATIC-MANDATED GIRLFRIEND
I LOVE MY TECHNOCRATIC-MANDATED GIRLFRIEND
SAVE ME SAVE ME SAVE ME SAVE ME SAV
I LOVE MY TECHNOCRATIC-MANDATED GIRLFRIEND
I LOVE MY TECHNOCRATIC-MANDATED GIRLFRIEND
I LOVE MY TECHNOCRATIC-MANDATED GIRLFRIEND

>>96171102
You and I both know most anons would take the technocracy mandated girlfriend. The mind control would just make it hotter.

>>96171158
Anon wouldn't get assigned a girlfriend, because that would be the most vulgar of reality-deviancy.

>>96171192
Anon, the Technocracy determines "Reality" by what fits the needs of humanity/maintains technocratic control. Handing out loving GFs/sex-robots would stabilize society tremendously(because men fundamentally work to support their families) and win endless brownie points from the half of the populous that matters the most(because a bunch of angry men at fighting age that feel like they have nothing to lose is a timebomb worse than any reality deviant)

>>96171004
Then why not play Vigil 2e?

>>96171055
>Wait, so wtf is the point of enchanting/alchemy
Other paths can only make items/buffs related to the path. Conveyance could let you make a magic door/portal that leads to exotic locations, but it can't make a lightning sword. Enchanting/alchemy can make you any magic item/buff potion, so they're closer to collections of universal rituals like dispelling/unweaving in the vague shapes of paths.

>>96171192
>implying the NWO aren't salivating at the thought of being able to create artificial gfs and bfs that will ensure total obedience to the technocratic paradigm from their partners

>>96170614
>Tattered Façades
Oh shit, they're bringing the Baali back. Good for those that liked them, but I can't say I'm enthused for what it means for where they might be taking the game.
We'll see I guess.

>>96170614
>Volgirre

>>96171576
Progenitors too! Do you have any idea how long they've been waiting for control to give the green light on releasing cloning and genetic engineering? They've been teasing that consensus update for most of a century now!

Do you think wod attracts the mentally ill at a higher rate than other ttrpgs?
Think of the
>deluded VTM player that believes or larps outside the game that they're a real life vampire
>otherkin WTA players that believe they're wolves
etc

Which mage would be considered more powerful, Medea or Voormas?

>>96172391
>Do you think wod attracts the mentally ill at a higher rate than other ttrpgs?
No. The majority of ttrpgs attract severely autistic people anon, they just normally attract the numberphile kind. WoD just attract a different kind of autists, specifically of the weird fetish variety.
>otherkin WTA players that believe they're wolves
Changeling is the game plagued by otherkin. Werewolf tends to attract furries and bestiaphiles instead.

>>96172391
Add:
>magefags
Nothing more need be said.

>>96172391
>Do you think wod attracts the mentally ill at a higher rate than other ttrpgs?
Yes.
t. mentally-ill

>>96172398
Medea, no contest. She's an archmarauder on top of being an oracle of life and has mastery over more spheres that voormas.
The only time this flips is during the end of the world, when voor eats a yama king through sex and become the sex god of death(I'm not joking, this is in the ToJ: Ascension book.).

>>96172391
from the drama i have seen in dnd, shadowrun and warhammer groups i think it's more that wod does not attract as many mentally healthy people, which in percentage might mean the same, but i feel it's a important distinction nonetheless

surprisingly i never seen coc drama

>>96172391
Honestly? It's not too different from other ttrpgs as far as quantity goes. It's just that our crazies are a bit different.
See, the Pathfinder, D&D, Shadowrun, Lancer, PBtA and Morkburger crazies tend to force every small element of personal politics into their games because in their minds, fiction needs to reflect reality. That's why they make memes saying "every party has someone working out gender stuff" or "every party has a tranny." They're insufferable because, while they understand tabletop is just fantasy, they cannot allow fantasy to deviate from reality too much.
WoD and CP have two main groups of crazies: the old school crazies who genuinely believe the elements of the game apply to reality because either reality inspired them (myths, historical events, occult writings, real science, contemporary politics) or because they feel so closely identified with the content of the game that they essentially create their little hypersigil and begin living life as if it was part of it (these are the "I'm totally a vampire/mage/werewolf/super hacker dude trust me" people). These, while cringey most of the time, can still blend in a nerdy crowd and be fun to hang out with. Hell, I'm dangerously close to being one myself.
Then there's the second group of crazies: the ones that mix all the bad elements previously mentioned in this post. They genuinely believe they are otherkin/witches/vampires in addition to being xenogender aromantic oneirosexual polyamorous DID, and so must be the characters they play because they're a reflection of themselves. The games must reflect their ideology because not just because their suspension of disbelief hinges upon it, but because they genuinely believe it would otherwise be damaging to themselves and others. They cannot allow fantasy to deviate from reality too much, but they cannot allow reality to deviate from their delusion either.

>>96167196
>>96168754
I think I get velvet worm from him. Dude looks made for throwing semi-aimed arcs of corrosive rope down a stone corridor and flopping towards anyone he immobilized.

>>96172952
>, the Pathfinder, D&D, Shadowrun,
Leave me the fuck out of this anon. It's only the latest editions that have the fucking political tourists. 1-3e D&D, 1e Pathfinder, and 1-5e shadowrun is free of them...
...but are also plagued by white-roomers and munchkins instead. Swings and round-abouts.

>>96172963

It's 10AM and picture related just invaded your haven.
What do you do, fellow kindred?

>>96172985
Well, yes it's the latest editions but you cannot deny they have become the representatives of the fanbase.
Grogs and greybeards are a dying breed. LGBTQ2SBBQBDSMTMNT+ are the image of those three now.

>>96173296
>Ursid Gurahl visits the homid kinfolk for the yearly breeding session

>>96173427
dawg the bdsm community has always flocked to wod, they got girls in fetishware in the books

>>96173457
I was just making a joke about the acronym, not the BDSM community itself.
I used to frequent a BDSM club and ended up recruiting three players, two of which had zero ttrpg experience.

>>96173479
>spoilers
Storytime, bro.

>>96173479
shit if that's where i gotta go to find people to play mage with...

>>96173600
My money is that they were vampire players.

>>96173501
>>96173600
>>96173634
It's not a particularly interesting story but here I go
>Be me
>Be a kinky fuck
>Start frequenting a somewhat exclusive BDSM club after being invited by a fwb
>Got to meet a couple of public figures but that's besides the point
>Lots of public degeneracy, like spanking subs in front of everyone, bondage, candle wax play, voyeurs rooms
>After engaging in some of those activities I become close with three partners
>First one, thicc cosplayer, weeab, failed OF model. Already a massive D&D nerd, enjoys larping, always wanted to get into VtM. Showed interests as soon as I mentioned I liked ttrpgs
>Second one, pocket sized goth girl. I'm sure she legally qualifies as a midget. Body runs on Monster and warheads, brain runs on trauma and Anne Rice. She didn't know what a World of Darkness is but was in for the ride as soon as she heard the words "Darkness, Vampire, Werewolf, Wraith, Mage"
>Third one is the odd one out. Girlboss MILF, very attractive, intelligent, well spoken, career woman, loaded with cash. Never played a ttrpg, I had to explain what they were and even then she referred to it as "Monopoly but with a plot" at first.
>It was easy to convince the first two to come to my table. Weeab pretty much begged me to invite her. Goth required some explanation but agreed after I showed her the books while she was at my place
>Milf needed a lot more convincing. She wanted to see us play first in order to understand what the whole thing was about
>Imagine this scene: a beautiful mature woman, dressed to impress, showing up at your LGS for ttrpg night. Just sits at the table among gloomy nerds and says "don't mind me. I'm just here to watch you play" in a playful tone, getting weird looks from everyone
>After the session ends, she says she "gets it" and agrees to join for the next game
>Overall my three recruits have been excellent and very fun players
>We had a VtM chronicle first, currently playing Mage. Planning on doing Wraith next.

>>96172391
I think it's more that the larpers tend to screech "POWERGAMER REE" anytime they're confronted with anyone that puts more than 3 dots in anything, and "NORMIE REE" when someone asks if the two hour dinner party is almost over and can they please get to some action.
You can guess at what remains.

>>96173634
oh 100% but as a fetishist and a magefag the idea of walking into my local bdsm club and making people play mage with me is really entertaining.
>>96173790
is this the secret to finding a wraith group? wraith with blackjack and hookers?

>>96170614
Can you post the Ankou loresheet?

>>96168749
Foundation magic isn't sphere magic.
.t retard who has read glacing mage books.


Also ya cause science ruined fun stuff for the homeless people.

>>96168749
there was a theory when dark age mage and sorcerer crusade been around that the 9 sphere magic itself causes paradox

but v20's true black hand book shut that down by giving rules for modern pillar mages with (to be fair reduced and simplified) paradox

>>96170974
>I don't like the imbued
You make me sad.

>>96173790
>currently playing Mage
What’s the Cabal consist of?

>>96173813
>Making people play Mage in bdsm club

You monster.

>>96173079
>Worms Invented the web meta millions of years before spiders did

>>96175027
>The fungi invented webs And sentience millions of years before worms.

>>96173790
What the fuck, my local bdsm club is full of closed groups who don't care about getting to know other/new people.

>>96168789
I argue that was part of the...I don't know the "Boss character when you face them vs Boss character when in your party" effect.
The less villainous The Technocracy become, the more nerf they got.
At 1st Edition, the Technocracy created the Gauntlet, used Paradox spirits willy nilly, created the Dyson Sphere the Cop, created the Autochthonia etc.

>>96174643
The MILF is euthanatos, the others are Cult of Ecstasy.

>>96175304
>The less villainous The Technocracy become, the more nerf they got.
Which gets dumber the more you think about it. Nerfing them causes massive breaks in lore and isn't necessary to make them playable. Everyone knows what it's like to be a tiny piece of a massive organization full of management issues. The technocrats being nearly all-powerful, but crippled by conflicting management, corporate culture, and bureaucracy, is when the game's at its best.

>>96175304
Original Technocracy wasn't all that competent cause Williams insisted that his chosen self-insert faction should be able to run circles around and in them, even in techie's own books.
But I overall agree with >>96175342, the difference between departments' perspectives, interests and approaches were enough to cause enough conflict and impede them as it is.

>>96166706
i have it one my pc, but i haven't read it yet. if you still interested i can read it tomorow and post a summary

>>96168749
The Technocratic Union and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race. They have greatly increased the life-expectancy of those of us who live on the mudball, but they have destabilized society, have made life unfulfilling, have subjected human beings to indignities, have led to widespread psychological suffering (in the supernatural's case to physical suffering as well) and have inflicted severe damage on the natural world. The continued development of the technology paradigm will worsen the situation. It will certainly subject human beings to greater indignities and inflict greater damage on the natural world, it will probably lead to greater social disruption and psychological suffering, and it may lead to increased physical suffering even in non-Earth spaces.
>*retreats to private horizon realm*

>>96171386
Becuause I don't really like the system for CoW and would require my autistic ass to be in the mood to learn it which has not happened yet. Still waiting the opportunity tho, not closed to learning the CoD/NWoD system.

>>96173813
>wraith with blackjack and hookers?
I mean... i would also play Wraith if those were included. Woundn't even mind the ass-wopping that is the Shadow System.

>>96174350
Not surprised either. I get that a lot but is not really my thing. I'm more of a Winchester Guy (First seasons) than a Buffy guy.

>>96176226
>Woundn't even mind the ass-wopping that is the Shadow System.
Weirdly enough, it's very possible to have healthy working relationship with your shadow. Your dark passions, the shadow's main motivators above even oblivion, can be pretty benign things that your character suppresses. The shadow system only kicks your ass if your character is already fucked up on a deep level to begin with.

>>96175962
I imagine the NWO response would be something like:
>but they have destabilized society
Technocratic society is more stable then any of the feudalistic warring states humanity lived in before.
>have made life unfulfilling
Because medieval serf-slaves had so many more options to follow their dreams right?
>have subjected human beings to indignities
Serfdom,and dirty tribal society was so much more dignified after all...
>have led to widespread psychological suffering
Oh nooo, we no longer live in constant fear of wizard-kings, supernatural hyper-predators, or getting killed on mass by a bad fever, Whatever shall we do!
Our lowest wagies are surrounded by luxuries our ancestors greatest kings could have never dreamed of!! This is True Hell!!1!
>and have inflicted severe damage on the natural world
Honestly, fuck gaia. That bitch made bugs that specifically eats human brains and flies that lay their eggs under your skin.

>>96173813
>is this the secret to finding a wraith group? wraith with blackjack and hookers?
The secret is to find people who haven't been poisoned against it.
>>96174643
>What’s the Cabal consist of?
Verbena necromancer
Akashic Chun-Li
Etherite R63 Rocketeer
>>96175250
That tends to happen. But this club was a little bit more "exclusive", so due to the relatively small crowd people were more likely to get get to know each other.

Will we ever get a proper HTR5 for the Imbued?

>>96176857
Wait, H5 doesn't have Imbued crap? That's great news, the biggest reason I disliked HtR is cause it forced that on you, completely missing the point of the Hunter's fundamental concept.

And they can be added in the latter expansion or something for those who want it, anyway.

>>96177000
Hunter is about the Imbued. The fundamental concept is about normal humans getting powers to kick ass and takes names as the artwork showed. Not even HTR managed to do that. I wanted H5 to give them a massive power boost, a real Reckoning.

>>96177019
Hunter is about normal people first and foremost. Not some faggots with superpowers.

Normal people from vastly different backgrounds getting exposed to supernatural and deciding to do something about it, whether to put it down, gain some powers out of it, or just wanting to study or fuck it, whatever it is. Imbued specifically should not exist, any powers hunters gain should come from their own willpower and zeal or be harnessed through their hunts, and powered hunters should never be mandatory player characters, but rather an option or advancement of the template.

>>96177101
Sounds like you don't want Hunter: the Reckoning. You want Hunters Hunted or Hunter: the Vigil.

>>96177121
I don't want a line named Hunter to be focused exclusively on Imbued. Hunters Hunted was adequate, for its time, but the book is old, and old WoD hunters deserve a full game for them, not be an afterthought and irritant for vampires and others, and not be supplanted by superpowered shitheads, endowed by some shady alien abominations and not their own will and effort as is proper.

>>96173457
>90s boomers really went to irl cashier with pic rel

>>96177101
>Hunter is about normal people first and foremost.
According to who, you? That's not what Hunter: The Reckoning was ever about.

>>96177199
I don't want a line named Hunter: The Reckoning to drop Imbued. That'd be like Vampire dropping Kindred.

>>96177199
Then you simply want an updated version of Hunters Hunted. Probably the easiest thing to homebrew assuming someone hasn't already.
For the longest time, the "Reckoning" part of the name specifically referred to the Imbued. The only solution is to have two lines: one for mortal hunters and one for Imbued.

>>96177000
>completely missing the point of the Hunter's fundamental concept.
Are you retarded anon? The fundamental concept of HtR is the imbued. You got HtR confused with hunter's hunted, a Vampire supplement.

>>96177000
Go fuck yourself over at Hunters Hunted.

So is Hunters Hunted exclusively about Vampire hunting or can they deal with other threats as well?

>>96177495
There's nothing stopping you from trying.

>>96177101
>Hunter is about normal people first and foremost.
No Anon, it is not. Hunter is about humans taking back the world and fight the supernatural. Everyversion of Hunter says so. H:tR gives its Hunters the imbuedment and gives them super cool power to fight the different creatures becauese it brings them to a leveled plainfield to fight.
Hunter: the Vigil is the first one to power down the Hunters making them humans with no powers or supernatural habilities. The Supplements on this line work to give them some power or abilities (with such as Slasher) and finally H5 gives the Modern look to the Hunters with no powers but now with some supplements like Alma Matter and Apostoses give some backgrounds and quirks.
I suggest to give a look to the lore of the books and rethink about your pointview about the Hunter aspect of WoD

>>96177692
>super cool power
Now, let's not get ahead of ourselves.
Most Imbued edges are pretty lame.

>>96177716
>Most Imbued edges are pretty lame.
I mean...yes but I was making the comparison between the Hunters IPs and even so, for humans to have powers and fight monsters Buffy style, i would call it pretty cool.

What would your attraction at the midnight circus be

>>96177736
A fucking Hall of Mirrors, thats for sure.

>>96177495
You can certainly try to hunt other things, but good luck hunting a pack of garou as a normal ass human. The anon above talking about hunters needing to be normal people is completely delusional, a normal person would be dead.

>>96177738
>fucking Hall of Mirrors
Oof, I feel sorry for the first guy to walk in. Imagine trying to do a maze room and realizing too late you need to escape a gay orgy of your clones instead.

>>96177716
>Most Imbued edges are pretty lame.
Why do messangers nerf hunters so fucking hard anyway? Imbued edges suck and the imbuing process surgically removes your ability to learn sorcery, psychic powers, and true faith or awaken as a mage. It's like they Want humanity to lose.

This entire argument is pointless because H5 isn't even good at doing normal human hunter adventures.

Both Hunters Hunted which is technically just a supplement for vampire, and Hunter: the Vigil in which normal person is one of several supported modes of play have far more to work with as both a ST and player than H5. H5 is the worst of both worlds, and I don't even buy an argument that it'd be easier to get people into, because I have never had players so dense they can't figure out oWoD or nWoD.

>>96177736
A simple county fair game stall. Maybe cork rifle shooting gallery, marbles or literally any other fun and innocent games.
Surprisingly it's not rigged. It's all skill here, and if you got it, you get your prize.
All prizes are cursed, possessed or fucked up in one way or another.
Option 2: A puppet show that randomly picks the life of a member of the audience to narrate, and it ends with an abrupt and brutal death meant to happen mere days away. Maybe you can cheat your destiny now that you've seen it. Maybe it lies in the hands of the puppets themselves. Or maybe it was a ruse from the beginning and it's your paranoia what leads to your end, creating a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Option 3: One of those old-timey erotic picture coin operated machines like pic related. It will always show your mom, sisters, daughters, your wife (with another man) or other equally uncomfortable, traumatic or generally distasteful display. That's it. No long lasting curse, no deadly perils. It's just a really shitty experience.

>>96177765
Because in the eyes of the Messengers, sorcerers and mages are just as abominable as vampires and werewolves.
Edges are meant to give a hunter a chance to fight against supernaturals, but not the ability to become apex predators of their own species nor reality manipulators. They are designed to only work against supernaturals because Messengers don't want to create yet another splat that competes for the top of the hill, which is also why Imbued have short lifespans and why some Edges are designed to keep other Imbued in line.
That said I kinda wish they would develop more specialized Edges designed to fight specific splats.

>>96175674
NTA but a summary would be cool fren

>>96177769
I still belive that H5 should have been Vigil but just the name changed. Vigil seems solid in lore and mechanics. Liked the Slasher supplement book. Hope with time H5 can be better than what it is now. I still enjoy playing H5 with my friends. As soon I have the money i'm planning on getting the Mage book and the original HtR one.

>>96177765
Why do messangers nerf hunters so fucking hard anyway?
>>96177837
>Because in the eyes of the Messengers, sorcerers and mages are just as abominable as vampires and werewolves.
Which goes to show they aren't on humanity's side at all. Awakening and ascension are the birthright of every human and sorcery/numina are literally just natural skills. The messengers are essentially acting like gnostic demiurges, working to keep humanity weak and subserviant rather than actually helping them. They're only "protecting" humanity in the way a rancher will prodect the livestock he's planning to slaughter and sell on the market himself.

>>96177745
There's a lodge of werewolf hunters and they are just fucking boomers, actually. They take the Teddy approach of using big fucking guns, and the knowledge that Wolves seem to both hunt in packs Lodgemate but are also fucking morons and really easy to trick or goad into traps to separate, ambush, and kill them.

>>96177716
>Most Imbued edges are pretty lame.
Isn't there one that instantly causes all paranormal entities within a certain area to be revealed for what they are? That's why my ST hated it.

>>96177791
>It will always show your mom, sisters, daughters, your wife (with another man) or other equally uncomfortable, traumatic or generally distasteful display. That's it. No long lasting curse, no deadly perils. It's just a really shitty experience.
That's diabolical. I love it.

>>96178479
>but are also fucking morons and really easy to trick or goad into traps to separate, ambush, and kill them
I feel like at least one of the writers for WtA 2e just really fucking hated the garou and made it their personal mission to make them look as bad as possible.

what's the lore reason behind the garou having deformed offspring if they mate among themselves?

how does their kindred survive then?

>>96178682
>how does their kindred survive then?
By yiffing.

>>96177736
The Egress Spiral, a roller coaster made only of loops with progressively tighter diameters to maintain a constant 10 g.

>>96177736
For your viewing pleasure, while I think about it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVeHxUVkW4w

>>96178682
They just don't know. Best answers include
>Wyrm does it for shits and giggles
>Gaia does it to punish incest-havers, like the Silver Fang, because the pack bond in normal wolves are just regular family ties
>Gaia does it to stop Garou forming a parallel society and just fucking off from their duties as either guides or warriors and doing their own thing (probably genocide)

Because sprits don't care what breed you are, usually, and because the Perfect Metis is a BSD, I would argue that the Wyrm does it to fuck over Gaian werewolves but also ended up hitting his own people because he's gone insane. Apart from that one time of course.

>>96178682
They have to maintain their relationship with the kinfolk. To do so is to abandon tradition and their duty. That shit is important to spirits.

>>96178682
Forget lore, better idea: all Garou are part of a single vast spirit, so fucking another Garou is selfcest

>>96178682
>how does their kindred survive then?
Copious amounts of Zoophilia.

>>96179008
The best part is that's 100% true
They are also usually the least friendly
Since you know they came from a wolfs belly

>>96178869
Maybe intersections of man and animal that are also spirits are unstable.

>>96177765
quite a lot of edges are actually quite powerful if you run them as it says in the book. Judges can slap a monster with "hey, roll just your normal stamina vs my Stamina+Zeal and if I win you can't spend Blood/Rage/Mana etc, suck my divine dick."

>>96177765
>Why do messangers nerf hunters so fucking hard anyway?
Because they want baseline reality to be preserved rather than human+. The Dhampir exception is mostly the result of writers not giving a shit.

>>96178682
Maximum 90s edge mixed with some degree of religious order inspiration.

In-setting, it's likely because of the concept of chiminage. It's why even ahi Nagah and shinjuu Kitsune, who don't have these issues, still have issues (with water-born toxins and putting a potential death sentence on one or both parents, respectively), and we know that this is by the nature of being part spirit. You have to pay something to get something in the spirit world, so disfigurements and additional vulnerabilities it is!

The first tenet, then, is mostly about making sure that the price paid isn't so great and so frequent that it breaks them and leaves them with nothing.

The Mokole are a special case of not knowing about science, albeit because people frequently wouldn't get funded for research on that arena of reptile behavior until recently. Reptiles that Mokole are born from are, in fact, active and conscious while not having yet hatched, communicating with each other and sometimes even lying dormant to ensure synchronous hatching events. Hence, while the Mokole breed book and player's guide entry from 1e assert that a Mokole wouldn't be able to dream their Archid form before birth, this simply isn't the case even by the barest case of baseline biology. I would suggest giving them a drawback similar to the Nagah and respinning the Innocents as those led astray by rogue spirits in the memory.

>>96179361
I'm surprised they didn't make a Assassin's Creed reference using the Mokole or their kin during the V20 era.

>>96179328
That's kind of the point isn't it? They don't have powers of their own, they just get to nullify others or give themselves openings. The fact that they also don't work on humans in 90% of cases is meant to stop them from trying to rule humanity like the Exalted did.

>>96179391
I am. They did Mnesis dirty constantly. It became a wonder that anyone even trusted them to properly remember anything with all of the downplaying and caveats that started cropping up. Really ruined the mood with all the word count wasted on Mnesis being "impressionistic" or "limited".

>>96179361
>Hence, while the Mokole breed book and player's guide entry from 1e assert that a Mokole wouldn't be able to dream their Archid form before birth, this simply isn't the case even by the barest case of baseline biology.
Not necessarily true. Reptiles aren't instantly sapient from the moment of conception and fetal bodies develop long before the brain. Innocents are literally in a catch-22 of needing a sapient brain to dream their body into shape and needing a body to develop that sapient brain. If they could develop in a different form first, then sure they could dream up an archid for "before birth", but metis of any fera need to grow from conception in their war form.

>>96177765
Because Solars stomp too hard.

I sketched up a Spectre!

>>96180191
Very nice.
Got any sort of backstory in mind for it?

>>96180239
You know, I hadn't thought of one. I might sketch up another, but this one I just wanted to express the horror of Oblivion.

>>96180191
Neat!

>>96177848
a bit of the history (just look up aachen's real history) there was a lot of supernatural fail: the roman legions kicked the shit out of the ventrue, gangrel and get fenrir in the area, brujah moved in and also tried together the previous mention splat members tried to control karl the great and failed too so the lasombra went and tried to create a church backed massacre. the garou then noticed that the reason nobody could control karl (who is apparently a kinfolk) was that he was with the „Choeur Celeste" who then went and slaughtered most of the vampires, garou and fae in the area till they got pushed back after karl's death by a weird alliance of red talons, get fenrir and gangrel called the „Aachener Manifest" who still lost by the way

a young ventrue called Wolfram von Stolberg who used to be a advisor of karl the great and a malkavian called Notulf de-escalated the situation by basicly using the fact that everyone including the mages been tired of bloodsheed
then they had 270 years of relative peace but now the beaten army of the second crusade returns and with it some of the greatest scum mankind knows and nosferatu who are seen as more cursed than the rest which is a problem when you live in a chorus central (and that's not even going into the baali)
the book then claims that it's made out of two parts one is the rheinsgold book that is the by night book and one is the schwarz (black) book that is adventure and the main theme of the rheinsgold book is betrayal due to the fact that the fights killed most elders on all sides in the "shining ruler city" and the vacum still isn't filled

one of the major elements is also the Oktogon which is a major meeting points of leylines that the garou want a cearn and the chorus wants everyone to back off from and they have a cabal so big they can have unnamed statblocks, a master mage with true faith 6 and are allied with the order of hermes. there are also no tremere because of them and a 5th gen salubri

>>96180458
despite mages making up a lot of the backstory this is a vampire book so there are only 3 named mages (and due to the age of the book they use sphere magic instead of pillars) and two garou

>>96180468
*6 named mages there are also 3 verbanna who do the whole female trinity thing even though they are not mentioned in the backstory so i overlooked them

>>96177736
just actual human sacrifices on stage pretending to be a magic show

>>96180130
Never thought about like that, but wouldn't a human with all 4 numina(Inquisitor/TF-hunter, sorcery, psychic, and shih/chi-hunter) basically be a modern exalted?

Hey I'm playing Demon: The Fallen and I'm looking at Lore of Radiance and is this power as absurd as it seems?

>Voice of Heaven
This evocation allows a demon to speak with a voice like thunder or with the clear, perfect tones of a crystal bell. The clarity and power of the demon’s words command instant attention, forcing even the most frenzied mind to pause and consider what the ancient spirit has to say.

System: This evocation does not require the expenditure of Faith to activate. A Devil may use this evocation to affect everyone up to a distance of 10 yards times her Faith, or focus on a single individual. The player may issue a single command to the target, who may then attempt to resist the command with a Willpower roll. If the Devil is using this power on a single target, the difficulty of the target’s Willpower roll to resist is an 8. Multiple targets may resist at difficulty 6. If the victim or victims score fewer successes than the Devil, they must obey the demon’s command. When the Devil speaks, her voice can be heard clearly regardless of the level of ambient noise. She could speak into a raging typhoon and still sound as though she were speaking directly into the recipient’s ear. This evocation has no effect on other demons or thralls with protection from mind-control effects.

So, I don't see anything saying this power can't just be used to tell someone to kill themselves, or jump off a bridge, or hold still while I shoot you, or literally any prescriptions limiting its use? It's just, difficulty 8 WP contested roll, or you're the Demon's bitch? Seems. Fucking broken as shit, actually. What the hell. Am I wrong or missing something? Usually these powers don't allow for telling people in a fight to let you kill them at least.

>>96180599
Yeah, it's broken as shit. Presumably only considered balanced because 'you can't use it on other demons, anyway'. Demon was not very well designed, absolutely 0 editors because WW was already in the process of imploding at the time.
I recall house ruling increased difficulties for the demon depending on the type of command given, would heartily recommend it.
By the way, if you're just reading core, I heavily recommend looking through the players' guide for errata, there's a lot of them, and some of them are important, like for torment rules. Players' guide in general is a must for that splat, it has all the coolest systems.

>>96180599
Anon, this is the game that gives earthbound the power to extinguish the fucking Sun with an evocation(Lore of storms 5 + Mastery 5). It's absolutely as unbalanced as you think.
Demons are essentially custom-designed to destroy the entire masquerade/veil/consensus with big, flashy, unbalanced powers.

>>96180599
The funny part of Voice of Heaven is that, this is the low torment effect, while the high torment version doesn't allow you to give commands anymore.
So, a low torment demon can tell you kill yourself, but probably won't, since they can also just tell you to stand down (and they'd gain torment for killing you like that), while a high torment demon can only seethe and throw slurs at you that physically hurt.

>>96180733
I suppose the Torment system is what really interacts with this. It seems like the point of Demon isn't what will you do with the power to shape the cosmos, but what will you refrain from doing? I mean, one of the Flaws is being a divorced dad paying his bitch of a wife alimony. A Demon could just, kill her, make her fall back in love, soulcube her and send her to the Pain Dimension, a billion other things. But your human half didn't kill his ex-wife because he loves his kids, or still loves his wife, or just can't bring himself to do it on principle, or a billion other reasons.

>>96180599
demon is very unfinished: like not even are the powers all over the place the corebook also makes reference to rules that are just not in the book like the spending of faith to boost stats for example
and the corebook does not care about any other splat so "demons or thralls with protection from mind-control effects." are all the non-normies it concerns itself with

>>96178504
>Isn't there one that instantly causes all paranormal entities within a certain area to be revealed for what they are? That's why my ST hated it.
Yeah that's one of the better ones.
The Middle Eastern book, Holy War I think it's called, also has a very powerful one that triggers a supernatural's weakness immediately (i.e. forces a frenzy/rothschek, paradox backlash, etc.).

>>96180771
>But your human half
More like previous tenant. The "human" is pretty dead if they get demon-possessed, their body is now just a vessel. The only exception to this is specific merits/flaws

>>96180904
The human is dead in most cases, but their mind and memories continue to influence the demon to some degree or other, unless you've got Legacy 5 and can just completely tune out those pesky mortal feelings.

>>96180904
The fate of the human is vague and entirely up to ST fiat.

>>96180867
>Yeah that's one of the better ones.
That's the one that sadly made my GM nope out of trying Hunter. Not much point in running a mystery story if you can just make one die roll to go "that's the bad guy right there".

>>96181401
Doesn't it reveal it to other mortals too?
But yeah, it's something I'd only allow at the end of a chronicle when all mystery is done. Or for antagonist imbued, as a way to force a "pitchforks and torches" scene.

>>96169455
Good to hear all went well. I'm happy to hear of an anon's game working out.

>>96181401
>An entire crowd gets multiple individuals revealed as not human.
>Hunters expecting just one - "Ah, shit. Which one is it? We can't take on more than one!"

Need help with a Lucifuge Hunters Background

Hey folks I want to build Lucifuge Hunter but have trouble coming up with a pre Vigil background, any stories or materials you would be willing to share about your (Lucifuge) Hunters to get my Imagination running would be awesome.

>>96182030
Well there's two kinds of Lucifuge, those whose families have been in the organization for generations and those who were picked up by the Lucifuge. The Lucifuge typically take a "join or die" attitude towards other devil-blooded.

So depending on which angle you want to pursue, it's either something that's been in the cards your entire life (Lucifuge track genealogy zealously so they can predict when the next child of the seventh generation is), or your normal life was completely turned upside down by it.

The Lucifuge in my current HtV game was from one of those old school generational lucifuge families, but ran from his obligations, joining the U.S. Army on the frontier, then becoming a mercenary in Mexico (it's a period game) before finally trying to settle down in Kentucky. But, they found him again, and sent another hunter to fetch him. After nearly getting his throat cut, he's been forced to join them, the only reason he hasn't been off to Milan yet is the long travel time and very immediate demonic threat in the area.

>>96180018
>Using the word sapient

I'm not interested in cheap pop sci-fi and fantasy excuses for comparative cognition, anon. You want to discuss this, talk about actual terms in the field.

>Talking about early zygote level of brain development

I'm talking about young ready to hatch who can survive on their own. Their brains are up to it. Shapeshifting can take care off the rest, since they aren't wholly human.

Also, some children of Mokole/Mokole pairings are born but then end up dying. So, really, it's BS either way for super maximum edge.

Has anybody tried finding players/groups on f-list?

>>96176571
>tfw can't get into exclusive bdsm clubs

>>96182089
>I'm talking about young ready to hatch who can survive on their own. Their brains are up to it.
Anon, are you under the impression that metis shapeshift into crinos the day they're born? Anon, they develop in the womb in crinos/archid/whatever form. You're essentially saying that metis mokole fetuses can totally develop up to neural active maturity without Any kind of bodyplan and somehow Not become a mass of cancer cells long before then.
>Tl;DR: You're being a Pseud right now.

>>96175962
Which one would Uncle Ted be?

>>96182030
>>96182030
If you want inspiration you could take a look at the various takes on half demonic characters. Maybe you character could be a repentant take on Lucius.

>>96183600
Orphan at Best.

>>96183600
I agree with >>96183989, Orphan, he's not enough of a seething cunt or a lazy basement dwelling internet troll to be a VA, even if he checks their terrorism and hate of authority boxes.

local torey in for a surprise

>>96182581
Yes, it's a disaster, I ignored my better judgement which already told me those types were cancer and tried much harder than I should have solely because I wanted to play a vampire loli.