Thread 96168498

Freaky Finns Edition

>What is Trench Crusade?
An alternate weird history 28mm/32mm tabletop skirmish game still in a pre-release playtesting phase but with the full release slated for this year. Based on the art and lore of Mike Franchina, whose illustrations you may have seen floating around on /tg/ for a several years now, and designed by Tuomas Pirinen, one of the original creators of Mordheim. It's grimdark, it's visceral, it's awesome, and it's very Blanchitsu.

>What Trench Crusade is not
TC not an excuse for you to discuss IRL religion, history that didn't occur in the game, culture war shit, or discord bullshit on /tg/. Keep it on topic.

>What's the QRD on the background?
The Knights Templar turned heretic and opened the Gates of Hell when they took Jerusalem during the First Crusade. Over 800 years later the war is still ongoing as technology has developed to a pseudo diesel-punk WW1 standard and a third of Humanity has sided with the Infernal Princes.

>How do I get started?
All the files are free online, but are split between the website and the discord. They have all been collected here for your convenience:
https://mega.nz/folder/70QH0BBa#Eg-blxYQKkY_C02wErnFTQ

>third party sources for making trenchers:
https://pastebin.com/YzXPVUAc

>Trench Compendium
Compendium: https://trenchcompendium.netlify.app/
Feedback Form: https://forms.gle/k44MxmJxWu3upDHT8

>Previous thread:
>>95990671

>Thread Question:
What appeals to you when pick a faction in a game? What drew you to /yourguys/ faction?

>>96168498 (OP)
Random tyranid converter and enthusiast response:
>What appeals to you when pick a faction in a game?
Cool monster designs, preferably a full monster faction, which is mostly lacking in TC.
Also "satanic" imagery of TC is very bland and surface-level, without actual esotericism. Sin-based fluff in Court fluff is very underwhelming and trite, especially for a faction that throws around terms like "goethic", would've preferred the Lesser Key approach which - while being also fairly pop culture - is still more interesting. I am waiting for Temple of Metamorphosis to maybe change that.
All the body horror also feels kind of on the cheaper side and all deviations from that are minimal. Exceptions I'd say are Chorister, Sister of the Transcendent Chrysalid, Pupal Seraphim and Angel of Transcendence. Other ToM designs feel like they lean into generic creepy crawly insect stuff too much, morphologically.
But I struggle to envision a good model to be made out of Angel of Transcendence, the design is wayyy too greebly, would look like a mess on tabletop from an elbows distance.

>>96168498 (OP)
>What appeals to you when pick a faction in a game?
I like the sheretic l
Legion and New Antioch. There just is something in man vs man in fantasy setting that gets me, even if there are fantastic races and monsters roaming the same world.

>>96168598
>Also "satanic" imagery of TC is very bland and surface-level, without actual esotericism.
Wow, it's as if the entire game is an aesthetic pastiche with no real depth.

>>96169064
>Wow, it's as if the entire game is an aesthetic pastiche with no real depth.
I mean my complaint was that the "good" factions have much more thought-out designs, pulling stuff from multiple branches of Christianity and whatnot, on top of various european, medieval and WW1 designs.
Meanwhile half of Franchina's monsters are kinda uninspired TEETH-TEETH-TEETH, CLAWS-CLAWS-CLAWS, GUTS-GUTS-GUTS body horror that frankly tries too hard, when I think body horror is more effective when it leans onto goofy/uncanny or focuses on particular distortions of certain body parts rather than raw predatory danger.
Also you're lucky to see some Lesser Key-esque iconography on regular evil troops but then again the demons themselves (or at least the Serpent, current de-facto demon faction) follow entirely different theming of regular ass Deadly Sins, which is lame.
(as a side note forgot to mention that the Pit Locust design is also quite good)

>>96168498 (OP)
>everyone can now take Fireteam dogs
When did this get changed? Looking forward using a dog to brace my Siege Jezzail
>TQ
Picked IS because the rules looked fun and nobody in my group already had them. I like taking an artillery piece in skirmish games, so Iron Wall are a great fit

>>96168498 (OP)
>What appeals to you when pick a faction in a game? What drew you to /yourguys/ faction?
Whenever I pick up a game the only thing I really check out is what the models look like because even if I can't play it I wasn't the models to be cool. I picked HL accordingly, war woof and Arty Witch are just cool sculpts

>>96168498 (OP)
Alright bois, weekend starts tomorrow who is playing games?
>home or flgs
>what are the bois rocking
>campaign style or skirmish
>ducat limits
In going to be introducing a buddy of mine who's been off the periphery of tabletop for a long time with a skirmish at 900d and 8g. He'll be playing heretic legion and either my buddy Biggy D will play NA or I'll play a bad HL list so the new guy doesn't get tabled

We're playing a campaign set on shores of the Baltic, so I've just thrown together a folk art inspired pattern to use as a symbol for my Grail playing friend whose warband comes from rural parts of Poland
Nothing amazing, but I'm hardly a graphic designer, so I'm still kinda glad how it turned out

We also have a Heretic Naval Raiding Party, a Papal State Intervention Force, a Tatar inspired Iron Sultanate warband, a Pride dedicated Court Warband and a Trench Pilgrim band from destroyed Gotland (in our story the current conflict started when a bunch of Heretic submarines managed to sneak to Gotland, completely sack and slaughter the island and open a minor hellgate there). Sadly nobody is playing Prussians, even though they would be very fitting.

We've played 8 battles in total so far. We all have very little to zero wargaming experience and it's the first campaign for all of us, but having lots of fun so far.

>>96172814
Neato, be sure to get some pictures of the models, I actually really like the different takes onf factions people have. Still want to hear what Black Grail and Dirge play like, Im a bit confused about how they progress a campaign, since 90% of their roster cant even wear equipment and you can start the campaign with all your elites fully geared.

>>96172919
Oh, we're playing on placeholders so far (a bunch of my minis from 40k and various board games to be specific), but we've actually just ordered the printing of some proper Trench Crusade minis a few days ago. Took as a while to get that done, since none of us has a 3d printer. Can't wait for them to arrive!

>>96172163
No games, since my army is not currently at hand. but I'll be visiting Ropecon this weekend. I'll try to get some photos and interesting stuff for the thread. Maybe I'll try to ask some stuff from Tuomas himself.

>>96172814
That is really cool logo

Compendium guy here. Just about content-complete and ready for public playtesting / the fixing-a-bunch-of-bugs-i-didnt-find phase. Should be posting the link soon.

I'll be fielding bugs and feedback mostly on the discord, since it helps me chase up specific people when I think the issue has been resolved, but i'll let you guys know when it starts of course.

I just primed my Heretic Legion, now to wait for the primer to cure while I settle on what color I want their uniforms to be.

>>96169472
>Picked IS because the rules looked fun and nobody in my group already had them
Same here.
In fact, I see few IS players in general, so I have room to expand my schtick without interlopers.
On the bad side, I have few examples to draw ideas from.
>>96172163
Wanted to throw down against my boy's HL, but I work the ENTIRE weekend.

>>96175769
Bless you dev-anon
Any features you're particularly proud of?

>>96176677
Just the sheer scalability of it.
The major issue with the compendium is that when major new feature types were introduced it required really hacky solutions - now I've pre-built a very complex system that allows for a huge volume of different stuff with minimal changes to the base system.

For example, in that screenshot of the alchemist ability, it does actually let you pick members of your warband and then those members will have the infiltrator keyword applied to them.

>>96178342
>Just the sheer scalability of it.
That's slick anon, I'm a dev by trade and I also appreciate making my life easier 6 months from now when I need to make a new seemingly minor change that is liable to break everything lol. But that's awesome man, it looks good

Isn't it a bit weird to have a SKIRMISH GAME set in a GIGANTIC WAR SCENARIO?

From the description on the setting you'd almost expect a 6mm wargame with hundreds of men per side going at it with gigantic tanks and artillery bombarding vast war-torn battlefields with overcrowded fences and swathes of no-man's land.

I wonder if the setting would be better off being centered around the ruins of a city instead, or something similar that fits the scale better.

It could also be set around commando elite operations, but this game rather focuses on commoners, filthy peasants and cannon fodder instead.

>>96168498 (OP)
>TQ
Assassin cabal is a really good fit for me. Tight, elite-heavy roster, flashy gimmick, great aesthetic, melee focused playstyle. It was a nobrainer really, luckily it is one of the weaker armies aswell, so I don't get flamed for being a rat most games.

>>96178474
>It could also be set around commando elite operations
So just play it that way in your group anon. They're your doods just so it goes how you want it, it's not like the warbands your playing aren't well funded. Shrine Anchorites, Heavy Mechanical Infantry, War Wolves, Praetors, etc. You could play Mammon for Heretics, Abominations flavored IS, MHI focused NA.

Hell the current way it plays is effectively special forces units going up against each other. The only times that's not really the case is when a player takes as many doods as they can.

>>96178474
Sort of agree, but I think the idea is that the trenches and frontlines of The War are so chaotic and labyrinthine that it's not uncommon for squads or companies to just kinda get lost and wander through them without any contact with much contact with their higher ups.

Also, while the setting might seem unfitting, most of the actual factions available do fit this smaller format:
>Trench Pilgrims are just small groups of random fanatics led to fight heretics and daemons by charismatic prophets
>Antioch and Sultanate are mostly on the constant defensive behind their walls, but often send forward small squads on various special assignments
>Court bands operate in independent hunting/raiding parties and probably don't even stay on Earth for too long
>Grail warbands are little more than groups of living corpses shambling around
>Heretic Legion probably operates more like a regular army, but I imagine they also have lots of small groups more interested in personal glory or riches

>>96178474
I think thats sort of the point unlike in 40k where you can field primarchs and other named characters in TC you and your squad are a bunch of no name grunts killing other no name grunts as brutally as you can for ultimately no real advantage while somewhere else battlefields are being torn apart by entire armies
its the trenches it make no real difference in the scale of the war if you drown your enemy in mud or if he guts you like a fish in the end this trench will swap hands again and again until revelations
that said the creators said they wouldnt be against a 6mm game or even a tank game of a sort but i kind of like the smaller aspect of it compared to other war games
fits the grimdarkness tone a little better i think than other similar wargames

>>96178474
You could just do that, WW1 wasnt all trenches. I rather like the idea of a scenario of playing in an abandoned rural village with something like a church or tower centerpiece.

>>96178474
Lore wise the game is quite fucked up, you expect huge frontlines, wide wastelands, then you look at the map and don't see anything of that.
>skirmish
It is almost ok if you want, almost almost ok.
You may consider the game as groups of commandos and raiders sneaking behind the enemy lines and getting objectives.

>>96168498 (OP)
>What appeals to you when pick a faction in a game? What drew you to /yourguys/ faction?
Lack of monsters.
I love when normal humans are fighting eldrict monsters

>>96169110
>Meanwhile half of Franchina's monsters are kinda uninspired TEETH-TEETH-TEETH, CLAWS-CLAWS-CLAWS, GUTS-GUTS-GUTS body horror
A lot of its "amazing" art looks like as the first unpolished concept throwed in a canvas.
Many of the human characters look like they are commissioned art that he's forcing himself to do because he has a deadline.

Got their uniforms painted, now to do the armor and all the details, then hit them with a wash.

>>96180322
The path of the beast being TEETH TEETH CLAWS MOUTH MAWS actually fits really well for them and I absolutely love the art we’ve gotten so far for that faction. What’s the issue with it aside from just needing more variety with the types of animals incorporated into the design?

>>96178474
I think that they could easily just make a full scale army game if the skirmish game proves to be popular enough. It could use epic scale or the existing miniatures

>>96168498 (OP)
Paint test for my troopers
Yeah I know my painting skills suck
I feel like it reads more like USGI than anything else

>>96180790
IMHO they should go 15mm if they will do a army game.

>>96180777
Two issues:
- too much (if everything is body horror nothing is body horror)
- lack of variety and identity

>>96180790
Epic scale would be neat, not enough people use it, and thats why it will probably be 28/32mm when they do it. Not that thats necessarily wrong of course, part of the appeal of TC is making your own stuff, its not exactly easy to make 15mm custom models and you would be rail roaded into using TC brand TC models.

You can still have scale with 28mm even, with historicals a lot of games use base size as a unit indicator rather than how many models are on the base, if you want a thrall unit to just be a tidal wave of thralls its for you to try and fit as many or as little as you want on a base, its still counts as "unit of thralls" and not "specifically 10 units of thralls with individual heal pools". If you want a human wave of men charging with bayonets just add more models to the base, if you want your commander to be a dioramma that is just one model on a fairly large base thats perfectly fine too.

Fresh off the Nike press

>>96183262
Mike press*
Love phoneposting. Anyway, bunch of TC stuff at Ropecon, fun to see.

>>96183340
>stigmatic nun
>chest plate variant
Why must the methodists ruin everything

>>96180341
Nice stuff, are they official?

>>96182760
Suitably grimy, I like it.
>>96183340
>TC cosplay already

>>96183340
Too bad the room where Tuomas held a speech was full. Otherwise it was pretty good. People were very excited.

>>96184073
Yup, pretty good cosplay too.

>>96184331
Need to see a whole warband out and about.
For Christ the Lion!

Why are the nuns topless

>>96184587
Drank Christ Blood and are currently tripping on the Voice of God. Being naked allows them to flagellate themselves quicker when post-battle AND pre-battle rapture comes upon them.

Imagine a holier-than-thou uncle that can back his shit up with actual facts, talking about great he is and you aren't; You've got a Stigmatic Nun.

>>96183340
>Wench Crusade

So what do you think is going on elsewhere in the world?
Is China managing to hold on or did they get colonized by demons?
Are the Aztecs now the ones being sacrificed on their pyramids by the demons?

>>96180322
This just feels like a "realistic" take on The First Beast in the same vein as those dumb, tryhard edgy "realistic" pokemon or kirby images

>>96183340
This bitch ain't fitting in any trenches

>>96184941
I'll fit in her trench, whether she wants me to or not.
>God Lube, when you need a hope in Hell to fit it

>>96184068
Yeah, they're from my kickstarter pledge that recently arrived.

>>96185159
Nice, may your victories over the servants of the Tyrant Lord be without limit, and your death swift,

>>96184328
You didn't miss out on anything really revalatory. Tuomas kept mentioning how they don't want to completely flesh out the setting to keep people's imagination going, but otherwise it was just a quick thing on how TC the game was made. Some interesting tidbits when it came to design choices and reasons for them, but honestly all just common sense if you want to build a good reputation with your customers
>>96184941
>>96185155
I prefer seeing authentic cosplays like hers instead of some Instagram thots with their ready made crap. The lady was super nice and chill, a nerd who actually cares about her hobby.

>>96185257
>I prefer seeing authentic cosplays like hers instead of some Instagram thots with their ready made crap
Why not both?
That said, cosplay from early in a fandom is oft a labor of love, rather than clout.
You ever see the pic of the girl cosplaying Vampirella back when in first released in the 70s?
>hint: nothing changed, the girl was 14

>>96184922
I see your brain has been poisoned. May I suggest touching some grass to detoxify?

>>96178413
The pain of having to retroactively add goetics to what was originally a tool for a different ttrpg left a scar.

Also, just exploration-location stuff left before its 'feature complete'.

>>96175769
What did you learn from this project that you're going to carry with you? Looking at your other posts I want to say forward-planning.

So the God in here is the Biblical/Abrahamic God, but not as omnipotent/omniconscious as he's portrayed in thr Bible?

>>96183340
Needs thigh plates and pauldrons

>>96186439
>as omnipotent/omniconscious as he's portrayed in thr Bible?
Have you read the bible? In the old testament he's not omnipotent nor omniconscious.
>So the God in here is the Biblical/Abrahamic God
Actually... we don't know, the lore is a bit everywhere.
The church claims to be in direct contact with god, muslims had some miracles that protected them from hell (iron wall), then there is the assassin sect, then there are pagans....
>God omnipotent
if he was why there are many hellsgates on earth?

>>96186439
short answer is yes to the best of our knowledge. It could simply be a prolonged Job situation and God will fix everything no problem if the writers decide to give conclusion to the setting.
But from what we have seen the direct intervention of Heaven aligned forces is absurdly powerful and humanity cannot exist in it it's direct presence.

>>96186837
>if he was why there are many hellsgates on earth?
Wasn't that one because humans kept opening them?

>>96185257
>fat = authentic
Lol

>>96185257
>they don't want to completely flesh out the setting to keep people's imagination going
Based.

>>96186296
Forward planning is the major one. I think being able to parse feedback without bruising my ego is the best lesson - if I'd been too sensitive to share publicly and crashed out, or just blindly did everything someone suggested, I doubt I'd be in this position.

>>96186439
No real confirmation, theres implications that things can hide from god but no real 100% confirmation that it actually works and isn't just the church coping with things going wrong.

My take is that god is taking the "he tests us with problems" thing to the extreme. As long as devils dont actually go to earth (in which case its unfair to judge humans under that kind of power) god only gives humans the occasional piece of power if they work for it.

>>96186837
>muslims had some miracles that protected them from hell (iron wall)
Not even 100% confirmed work of God
>>96185299
>>96186805
Not that I expect anything else from the average poster here, but you've never been to a genuine convention, one set up by people who care and not some big advertisement like comicon.
Spent all day yesterday at Ropecon, and I saw maybe 1 cosplay by a girl who was attractive and seemed like she belonged.
And by that I mean she was there to nerd out over teegee and not to have sweaty nerds take pictures of her. That nun cosplayer was probably older than anyone in this thread.

>>96188569
Wasn't shitting on her cosplay, just saying the look doesn't look quite complete until more pieces are on

>>96188670
Ah yeah meant to reply to someone else, sorry.
But yeah some extra pieces could do wonders I agree.

>>96180322
reminder that Mike started using AI slop at some point. Hard to say how much of his recent work is just edited AI slop.

>>96188569
>muslims had some miracles that protected them from hell (iron wall)
>Not even 100% confirmed work of God
Hell the implication I got was that they made a deal with Mammon
>covered in extreme wealth
>core is made of the depths of Hell
>Mammon's campaigns take him towards Africa
>Meaning Mammon's rivals are the ones being damaged by it while he got whatever from the IS and to prevent consolidation of strength for his rivals
It seemed pretty obvious to me

>>96189460
Thats what i always thought plus the horns and calf motif mammon has and the name of the IS

>>96186439
It's left up in the air, but it's funny that neither hell nor humanity wants him to directly influence this war, cause they both agree that if he shows up, he's hitting the reset button like he did with Noah.

>>96189687
the lore kinda implies "God" isn't the real god anyway. Thats the reason Satan and the fallen angels rebelled. They found out.
Also probably the knowledge the Templars discovered that made them fall to hell.

>>96189460
>Hell the implication I got was that they made a deal with Mammon
they made it clear that "no religion is canonically wrong", you can speculate as much as you want but there is not a "canonic truth"
>>96189703
Where is it implied?
Btw there are entities older than hell, fallen angels discovered them when they were forced there (Temple of Metamorphosis)

>>96189703
At the very least that there are outer things older and potentially more powerful than God.
I can absolutely see a man seeing something greater than creation and immediately revering it as more worthy of worship than God after having witnessed the horrors of war first hand, while razing their own holy lands to the ground

>>96189884
>they made it clear that "no religion is canonically wrong"
How does the mysterious wall that popped up magically one day being demonic in origin imply their faith being wrong? It just shows the falability of man. Hell the lore primer itself calls out the sketchy nature of the wall just appearing.

>>96189914
where is stated that the wall is demonic?
you may think that, another guy may think that it is divine and who's speaking to the church is a demon prince fighting other demos

>>96189960
>where is stated that the wall is demonic?
It doesn't, nor would it because all loreis written in a biased format
>you may think that, another guy may think that it is divine and who's speaking to the church is a demon prince fighting other demos
I can't even divine what your argument is here anon, my points about the wall specifically being a creation of Mammon are pretty clear and rained by details from the primer, if you can clarify what points you're trying to make about the topic at hand I'd live to continue this but it really just seems like you're upset that anyone would question the motives of the sultanate, which is weird because the point of the setting is to encourage thought on right, wrong, propaganda, and war turning all men into the monsters that they face

>>96190007
>you're upset that anyone would question the motives of the sultanate
I am not, I am just telling you what the lore is, and it is not about "Mammon made the wall!".
> the point of the setting is to encourage thought on right, wrong, propaganda, and war turning all men into the monsters that they face
I don't think the devs have this depth about their concept.
It is mostly "I wanna draw cool stuff" with no real direction.

>>96190007
>the point of the setting is to encourage thought on right, wrong, propaganda, and war turning all men into the monsters that they face
The setting exists solely because they wanted to draw in that artstyle. It just started as some random artwork that didnt even have an established setting

>>96188853
Bait so weak that I feel ashamed replying. Like encouraging a special ed kid he could participate in the olympics.

The above sounds like a IC arguement amongst the faithful.

>The muslims are deceived by the devil! They cannot be trusted! Their wall was built by the hands of demons.
>You are the one who is deceived. Tell me who told you this so I may question them myself.
>It is self-evident. No priest or general is needed to tell you what your own eyes can see. Their wall is accursed with demonic origin and all that flows from it is tainted.
>You imbecile. You would demand we open another front, a front against our own allies, while the demons still strike at us even as we speak!
>I said nothing!
>You said-
>Nothing!
>-said right here.
>YOU are the one who is saying these things. Not I.
>You are implying-
>I said nothing-
>GET OVER HERE
*Sounds of struggling and swearing*
*Shouting as bets are made in the background*

>>96191191
And that's just as valid a take on it as someone saying maybe it was set up by Mammon.
>>96190397
>I am just telling you what the lore is, and it is not about "Mammon made the wall!"
And I can tell you that literally yesterday Tuomas made a point of the wall's origins not being confirmed to be the work of God. It's up to you how to interpret that, and that's the point.
>>96190919
Just how you solely exist as stardust fr billions of years ago. Why are you posting your opinions like they matter, space debris?

>>96188569
>That nun cosplayer was probably older than anyone in this thread.
Unlikely, I started going to anime and comic book conventions back in '01, mid 40s now.
There is a lot of condescension ad bitterness in your post that makes me wonder if you need slow down and hit a spliff.

>>96190007
Anon, I think what you need to accept is that you are speculating pretty hard, especially since Hell aligned, in any way, groups act in a consistent manner that isn't reflected here.
>>96192176
Much of the background elements, themes and motifs of the IS are based on their regional myth, which itself is rare to find in any wargame.
The Iron Wall being created to protect believers from Shaitan is as formulaic of the religion as Moses and the Burning Bush. The fact that the wall can not be 'confirmed' as being the work of God is to keep themes in line of a God that is remote and hands off. It also waylays the inevitable 'if God is so strong, why doesn't He just stop the demons?' nonsense.

>>96189884
>>96189891
thats exactly where its implied. The CoM. When the fallen angels fell. They fell into a realm that had already existed and carved out hell.
They went exploring and found creatures older than god.
It kinda implies "god" could be a thing related to the metamorphosis cult.
>>96192395
its pretty obvious from the lore primer the wall isnt made by god the Sultanate just assumes it is.

>>96192176
Exactly what I said at beginning.
The core lore is
>It is as YOU wish
But there is NO canon, everything is on the hand of the players, if you want that catholic church is serving the Demiurge or a demon prince it Is ok... for YOU.
There is NO canon. NO canon solution for the misteries, everything is just because it is cool.
It doesn't matter if it doesn't fit the lore or makes no sense.
>Britannia ship could stop any raiding in the North Europe just standing near Giblatar but it doesn't... because

>>96192640
Are you just freestyling all of this, or was it explicitly explained by the writers that this is how they approach things?

Because if it's merely your deduction it is surely untrue and you will end up disappointed very quickly (if the game/lore continue to be developed, that is). Almost instantly they will write something that makes you go, "BUT I WAS PROMISED NOTHING IS CANONNNNN"

>>96192805
>was it explicitly explained by the writers
yes, in many interviews

>>96192640
>Britannia ship could stop any raiding in the North Europe just standing near Giblatar but it doesn't... because
Probably because it require constant maintenances and repairs, and the anglos are too afraid to let the whole thing venture into actual danger I suppose

>>96193546
>Probably because it require constant maintenances and repairs
dude, I am telling you, this is a setting where the only thing that keeps the lore to collapse is the rule of the cool.
Britannia exist because... it is cool.
Just that, this is the way to enjoy the setting, no questions and chill.

the anti-canon shit that popped up over the years is so fucking bad

>>96192640
Anon expecting an entirely new IP doesn't have all the answers and have an entire world's worth of narrative material that explains everything is an incredibly dumb expectation.

>>96192176
>And I can tell you that literally yesterday Tuomas made a point of the wall's origins not being confirmed to be the work of God. It's up to you how to interpret that, and that's the point.

Literally nothing can be confirmed to be the work of God from an in-universe perspective.

>>96192328
>mid 40s
Congratulations, you're probably the only person here near her age.
>There is a lot of condescension ad bitterness in your post that makes me wonder if you need slow down and hit a spliff.
What makes me bitter is that I meet a lovely person with a cool cosplay, decide to share it here and see anons insult her. Yeah, I should've expected it and no one here would care who's behind the cosplay, but I don't post here much anymore and forgot how antisocial some fags here can be.

is there a pic of this nun consplayer

>>96192618
Please stop saying they found creatures older than god, that just isn't what was stated. They are older than creation, not God.
I mean i agree with thewallismammonsdoing anon that we are free to interpret as we want, but if you decide that what is behind the door is older than Him, that is your decision and not supported in text.

>>96195022
she has a armor, anon

Trench Pilgrim question. So, if the Iron Capirote stops additional Blood Markers from weapons with SHRAPNEL and the Punt Gun has the SHRAPNEL property. Does this mean we can equip a Capirote and just start blasting?

>>96195753
older than creation indicates they are outside Gods creation
Which has serious religious significance because christians dont believe theres anything outside gods creation.

>>96195997
That might not exactly true to biblical canon of the New Syncretic Orthodox Church seeing as they're not reading from a generic King James Bible or anything like it. Older forms of the biblical canon had it so that the darkness and the third world were both existences that God came to himself, he may have made the world good, fruitful, and full of a great many animals, but if you go by biblical canon that the people of Trench Crusade may be reading it might not be so cut and dry as the modern era's version.

>>96195993
You won't get a blood marker but it will still end the shooter's activation.

>>96195842
is she cute tho

>>96196062
Hm, true. But the ability to huck out a pie plate every turn makes things dangerous for the other team. Nice.

Has anyone figured out what kind of madness makes the Most Immortal Man? I'd assume it would have to be a combination of Wrath of God + Martyr-Penitent on Martyrdom Pills, with a Holy Icon Shield but I bet there's something even crazier tho.

>>96196076
Out of your league.
T. Anon who took the pic

>>96196110
Have you got a pic without helmet?

>>96196197
Nope, wouldn't post it here anyway if I did.

>>96194963
Nah anon, fuck 'em you brought value to the thread, while most people here are shitting it up. Don't let some sour anons who've never touched a woman stop you from sharing something cool and relevant.
I've noticed the people arguing haven't posted any pictures of their models, so they're likely nogames as well.

Did you see anything else fun at ropecon finnanon? Get any games in?
I got to play at a buds house using asuper slapdash list of NA vs my own HL, walking my buddy through playing Naval Raiders and lost to my own list. I still had a good time, but when my buddy Ed did the same thing he seemed put off by how effectual my list is. So I'll probably end up making a different worse one soon tm (they're new to wargaming broadly, and skirmish games in particular and I'm not, so I don't want to make them feel like it's WAAC gaming)

>>96196420
Cheers anon.
I didn't get a full game in, the demo tables were pretty busy, but I got a chance to play a bit in the big narrative game they had on the side of hell. Didn't amount to much of anything but it was fun doing my part.
Posted one Pic from that table already, but got a couple more. Also found a 3d print service there that can make a warband for me for 50€, so I'll be getting in touch with them when my next paycheck rolls around. Still undecided between TP and HL for full warband, but I will get at least 1 arty witch either way.
Tuomas actually brought up how funny it is how popular a murder golem from hell is, and had a laugh when he signed the doodle and autograph I got from Mike. Also posted earlier, I don't really have words for how happy I am about that. Been playing Mordheim most my life so it was great to meet my hero in person so to say.

>>96184328
I hate the fact that the most creative design they could come up with for heretic troops is Germans with gasmasks and some satanic runes.

Mensch Crusade

>>96194963
>see anons insult her
No one did that here. At worst, someone suggested more armor. I said I enjoy both costhots (because I am a man) AND cosplay enthusiasts (because I am one myself).
Be cool, man, it's good cosplay.

>>96196568
What were you expecting. The Inquisition?

>>96197014
>Nigga, pls

>>96195993
I'd say no, because the description just says "causes one BLOOD MARKER on the shooter". This blood marker isn't caused by being attacked with a SHRAPNEL weapon, it's just a flat "you get one marker" effect. I always assumed it's supposed to represent the tremendous recoil or deafening noise of the shot rather than the shooter actually getting hit with some of the ammo
>>96196079
Sorcerer and Hunter from Court have built-in spells that can make them pretty much literally immortal as long as they have the blood markers to fuel them. And this can be combined with armour and shields

>>96197461
>I'd say no, because the description just says "causes one BLOOD MARKER on the shooter". This blood marker isn't caused by being attacked with a SHRAPNEL weapon, it's just a flat "you get one marker" effect. I always assumed it's supposed to represent the tremendous recoil or deafening noise of the shot rather than the shooter actually getting hit with some of the ammo
It's a strange one.

Iron Capirote
Rules: Negates the additional BLOOD MARKERS from weapons with Keyword SHRAPNEL. Makes the model immune to the effects of FEAR.

Punt Gun
Name Type Range Modifiers Keywords
Punt Gun 2-handed 18” +1D to hit and to injure HEAVY, SHRAPNEL
Rules: Owing to its high accuracy and lethal shot, a punt pun adds +1 DICE to all rolls to hit and to injury rolls. Before a model shoots with the punt gun, you can overcharge it with a shot, giving the weapon BLAST 3” radius. If you do this, the shooting ACTION with the Punt Gun always ends the shooter’s Activation and causes one BLOOD MARKER on the shooter. A model cannot make a ranged attack with the punt gun unless it is either STRONG or another friendly model is in base contact with it.

By a strict reading of the Iron Capirote and the Punt Gun it should work. Shooting Actions don't produce BLOOD MARKERS so that's an additional BLOOD MARKER being produced from a weapon with the Keyword SHARPNEL so going by RAW it's guarded against by the Iron Cap. Personally, I took it as meaning that Helmets, Iron Caps, and the like were built not simply to guard your head but also as general head protection to guard against the blasts, booms, and such of explosions so common to the war.

>Sorcerer and Hunter from Court have built-in spells that can make them pretty much literally immortal as long as they have the blood markers to fuel them. And this can be combined with armour and shields
Ah, true. Court can go crazy with proper Blood Marker management.

>>96178474
Skirmish games, generally in my experience, are always small glimpses of larger events happening because if you go larger the rules become too fiddly to use across a lot of units.
Blood Markers work on the small level, but hundreds of different units all with their own individual Blood Markers to work around would be too much book keeping for many people to get into the series, just as one example.
Though, personally, I think that tanks, mechanized infantry, and artillery bombardment should be included as well.
Static defensive mortar lines, massive naval cannons, and more is kind of how New Antioch is holding their lines, so them being able to pull a Helldivers and just radio in for artillery would make them fucking terrifying.
Tanks are explicitly something that the Faithful have to fight seeing as they're such a major thing for the Heretic Legion that the Prussian's developed hard counters for in the Gardekorps.
Trench Pilgrims just pushing through a lack of such innovations with grit, miracles, and the Shine Anchorites makes sense and wouldn't need them to be changed.

I would also point out that trench warfare is not simply the threat of indirect fire that made things hard on folks. Skirmishes show that well enough, though.

I personally would advocate for an overwatch mechanic, as that's literally the kind of thing that made Trench Warfare a threat on the infantry level because rushing through No Man's Land was meant to be done in stealth or in massed charges where you lost lives by the dozen running through overlapping fields of fire. With armor and injury rolls being what they are, the inclusion would make things neat in my mind, though it would also slow down many battles to the point that the numb number of turns taken would be longer before a resolution was found.

As for the setting being about commoners, peasants, and cannon fodder. Very few of the units seem that way to me, even the Trench Pilgrims are those that have access to rezs.

>>96196545
Tunnistettu'd. I'm pretty sure I was the other person there when you came to meet Tuomas. Anyway, it was cool to see all the TC terrain and games going on. Plus Mike's sketchbooks. Too bad there were no lore drops or announcements.

>>96198090
It's probably not meant to protect from the punt gun's overcharged shot, they'll probably have to reword how it works.

>>96198374
Actually, it might be intentional. Check this out:

Combat Helmet
The simple combat helmet has proven its value on the battlefield time and again.
Rules: Ignores additional BLOOD MARKERS caused by the Keyword SHRAPNEL.

Iron Capirote
A conical helmet blessed by the Church and often containing a fragment of a relic. Iron Capirotes shield their wearers from the psychological horror of war and allow them to face creatures from the pits of Hell unflinchingly.
Rules: Negates the additional BLOOD MARKERS from weapons with SHRAPNEL Keyword. Makes the model immune to the effects of FEAR.

Iron Capirote negates additional BLOOD MARKERS from /weapons/ with SHRAPNEL whereas helmets igonores additional BLOOD MARKERS from /the keyword/ SHRAPNEL. That feels like a purposeful design choice.

>>96198455
But if you think about what's literally happening, why would a helmet protect you from overloading a punt gun? What you're doing is loading the punt gun with more powder and loading in more cube shaped pellets than you usually would with normal shot. All that will do is increase recoil from the punt gun, directing all that force into your shoulder or wrists if you're hip firing. If it was supposed to cause any shrapneling effect, the gun would be exploding (destroying itself) in the user's hands.

>>96198583
1. Mechanics are not logical consistency with in-setting physics all the time to my knowledge.
2. That's how the Mechanics as the current build are.
3. It's a divine magic helmet with a fragment of relic in it? That is just how it works in the Mechanics.
4. Arguing realism for a group that has a dude who can legit lay on hands away BLOOD MARKERS is kind wacky.
5. If your only argument is 'but this doesn't work like this realistically' that's not really an argument in good faith is it? Not necessarily a bad faith argument, just muddying the waters a bit.

TLDR: By RAW it works, by the looks of things it's a design choice, RAI is up-in-the-air until someone gets a quote from Tuomas or the rule is clarfied but it's lasted quite a few updates as-is.

>>96198679
It can be interpreted that way, but it is weird how the punt gun is noted to have a fire mode that will cause a blood marker to the user, but then would almost never actually apply one since you'd almost always have the guy with the punt gun equipped with a capirote. Punt guns were introduced to the game after capirotes, so it's not like the wording for capirotes was made explicitly for the punt gun.

>>96198706
It's not an interpretation, it's a reading of the words as written, until it changes/is clarified that's what the rules as written say. It's still an additional cost for the safety that the Iron Capirote provides as well. The additional BLOOD MARKER could be built around people who can get punt guns later like the Court who can take other armies weapons up with a Sin choice or other means, the Punt Gun could have been built around the idea of the Iron Capirote by design instead of the Iron Capirote being built around the Punt Gun.

>>96198776
As long as someone could bring it up to the devs to get confirmation

>>96198827
Until one of the devs changes something or says something that's how it is, yep. Granted no idea why some folks are trying to say it's not a thing. It's ostensibly having to buy a helmet + Punt gun combo to get a lower range Grenade Launcher.

>>96198872
I think that's probably why. It's a very shooty option for the more melee faction, and although that may be how it's written, any random player's going to think about the literal scenario of what the punt pilgrim is doing and wonder how a helmet helps with recoil.

>>96198894
Personally don't think a shooting option being in a melee oriented faction is an argument against it being there. Also, BLOOD MARKERS and SHRAPNEL are both abstractions of things that happen to people who get hit in the battlefield. Now all of it is about recoil. The additional BLOOD MARKER is more about dealing with recoil, massive fucking sound, and such as someone pointed out the Punt Gun isn't exploding in your hands every time you use square shot. Maybe the Pilgrim hears everything as if from a great distance to keep his attention on the battlefield and just deals with the rest of the recoil by either a) being stronk as fuck with the STRONG trait or b) having another guy help him with that very issue.

Just pointing this out:
Iron Capirote + Punt Gun = 27 Ducats for 18" Blast Template, no Ignores Cover. Needs STRONG or 1 additional man to work.
Grenade Launcher = 30 Ducats for 36" Ignores Cover Blast Template. Does not need STRONG nor 1 additional man to work.
The first is weird shooting attack that works by the RAW as a flavorful if niche weapon.
The second is a weapons system doing what it says on the tin.

>>96198988
As in the ranges are 18 and 36 inches sorry about that. Both blast tempaltes are 3"

Heck the fact that freaking punt gun is so low range is crazy. Shotgun that can shoot entire flocks of fowl out of the sky having the same reach as Muskets is just wild.

>>96197014
idk, something different than the same "evil gasmask trooper with german stahlhelm" maybe?

>>96198326
Sucks that I missed Mike's presentation, and yeah there wasn't much revelationary stuff from Tuomas either. Very much made for new people to get a glimpse of the game I felt.
Cool to see other finnanons here, hope we'll meet each other again in No Man's Land someday.

>>96199162
>Very much made for new people to get a glimpse of the game I felt.
There seemed to be a lot of new people trying TC for the first time at the demo. I hope the hobby's ranks grew as a result.

>>96199109
Why not, looks cool. If you want to do that you can just do that you know, this isnt warhammer, youre not making your guys incorrect by not making them look like the art, it just has to be in theme.

>>96197014
reddit tier comment, please consider killing yourself.

For me they are alright at best, HL roster is carried hard by the bomb witch and the wolf.

Question anons: how would you fix the witchburner? The model is cool, the rules are cool, but even with the papal variant, I find it too expensive to include.

>>96196568
I get what you mean. It is a bit of a cliche at this point, but I think the logic is that they really wanted us to see them thoroughly as bad guys, but it kind of falls apart when you remember that this is a weird war one setting not weird war two.
I'd like more variety. I wanna see Adrians, and Brodies. Maybe some M1s
>inb4 M1 is ww2
I didn't see anyone complaining that the thompson made it into this alternative ww1 game.

>>96200006
Genuinely the fact the folks complain about the anachronistic tech of the series without understanding that God is basically giving out visions to improve the tech as fast as humanly possible is kind of crazy ngl.

>>96199960
I think glory point costs of most things are generally kinda fucked, at least for campaigns. Like, in our current campaign so far most people on average gain less than 1GP per battle fought. The current top player in that regard has something like 1,3 GP/battle ratio. Assuming the standard campaign length of 11-12 battles, that's not or just barely enough to buy some of the most expensive GP items at all, even with the assumption you spent them on literally nothing else the whole campaign and you were lucky enough to get an exploration encounter allowing you to spend them at a right moment. Some of this stuff is good, but it's not THAT good. I think they should either lower the price of many glory items or give each warband something like a passive 1GP reward per battle. Or at least per victory.

Witchburner specifically is pretty good though I would say. Putting a free blood marker on basically any enemy on the battlefield possibly every turn (or 2 markers against half of factions in the game) is a quite nice ability. He's also fairly tanky and good in melee. The only real issue with him is the abysmal move speed.

>>96200229
Im almost certain there was a reward table and there is a GP reward for doing certain things during the fight, where even if you lose you can still get GP for having done stuff like "defeat an elite with a non elite" and "activate first bloodbath" The GP stuff is strong as fuck, I dont think the idea is that you are suppose to be able to have a whole arsenal of it by the end of teh game, but rather only like 2 or 3 things, these things change the game whenever they are in play.

Speaking of Witchburner
>not TP flamethrower focus faction that swaps out the prophet for the Witchburner
Gimme

How do you deal with the AMR? Had a plague knight just dropping my dudes one by one.

>>96200339
Cover helps, but the only way to deal with that thing is by killing it back. Sniper Rifle out-ranges it, Machine Gun is on the same Range so you might be able to kill 'em with multiple attacks using that, Trench Pilgrims just march their units towards AMRs and let the Nuns or Communicant to tank the hits for abusing Blood Markers.

>>96200403
I tried shotgunning the knight but he also had some item that made him harder to hit so he was super fuckin tanky, I don’t really know, I’m still learning the game. I was playing Knights of Avarice.

>>96200425
Plague Knights are rough because they have to take Armor, it's part of their rules, and they have Knight of the Rotten Cross which lets them pick up a weapon from the Heretic Legion/New Antioch lists, which is likely how they have the AMR. On top of that They've got Undead Fortitude which makes everything non-fire injure at -1 Dice. Sounds like he was toting a Black Grail Shield, but as he's using a AMR he shouldn't have been able to use it and his AMR at the same time, AMR isn't Shield Combo after all.

>>96200480
I want to remember it being something like some chalice or cup that was making him harder to hit or making me worse at hitting, I can’t exactly remember. Game was still fun and we ended up tying despite that.

>>96200425
Since you were playing KoA, you could have used The Price of Greed for a hit that scales with armor somewhat.
What'd you get for your Corrupt Merchants choices? Personally I usually go for Machine Armor and Wind Amulet, but there's all sorts of neat shit to get.
Fire is you friend against Grail in general.

>>96200538
I didn’t actually choose anything because I didn’t know how to add it in the list builder at the time. But as KOA the game vs Grail was specifically harder because I can’t use fire weapons.

>>96200339
Generally you either take it down ASAP with your own long range heavy hitters or with infiltrators. Or at least you try to engage it in melee. Even if you won't be able to kill it right away, you can at least use the blood markers from wounding it to decrease the chance it will hit your guys. You can also try to keep your most valuable models in some location where the AMR won't be able to target them untill it activates, as much as it's possible. If you're playing Antioch (or Pilgrims with Observer) you can also force the AMR to activate when it doesn't have good firing conditions against any of your priority targets.
With Knights of Avarice specifically, your best bet is probably to either take it down quickly with the Witch or dash and teleport to him with your Warlock to engage it in melee as soon as you can. Or with the Wolf.

But generally from my experience the biggest filter between beginner, poorly faring players and decently doing ones is being able to instantly recognise the most bullshit enemies in the enemy warband and knowing how to shut them down or work around them quickly.
That and list building skills

>>96200574
I unfortunately lost my AMR quickly after popping a Herald. Failed my dash action after shooting and he was stuck partially behind cover. We also both forgot he had a shovel and had cover because of it.

>>96168598
idk, i like the esoteric stuff in like the artilery witch or the headless guy whose guts form some eldritch symbol.

maybe more astrology stuff should be incorporated, but thats not explicitly satanic and was considered a fine pseudoscience in medieval times.

>>96200536
Hm, dunno what that could be. Cup of Filth is a Campaign item, but it just improves dash for a number of fighters. Pretty sure it's a Black Grail Shield:
Black Grail Shield
The Device of the Black Grail carries the blessing of the Lord of Flies. It has a will of its own, moving to intercept any bullets or other projectiles that might impede the work of Beelzebub.
Rules: This counts as a Trench Shield. In addition, when this model is targeted by a ranged attack, it can draw on the power of the Black Grail to disturb the flow of reality as an ACTION. If successful, the ranged attack is rolled with -2 DICE. If this ACTION is a Critical, the ranged attack automatically misses. This can be done outside of the model’s Activation and can be done each time the model is targeted by a ranged attack.

>>96200560
Mhm, and gas is something the Plague Knights are hardened against. Oof on the list builder thing. Warlocks are a strong leverage point and Knights of Averice makes them an option, but damn if you're not missing Death Commandos right now. Having a casters to nuke the hard-to-kill units is sometimes a pretty solid option. Expensive.

>>96200624
Why would medieval times matter in this case? It's a ww1 era world.

>>96200636
It sounds like the shield, then. But I think he also had the cup. I mean, we did play the standard 900/8 pickup game list so I don’t know if he doesn’t know you can’t use campaign items like that or if that’s even a thing. Because I did see stuff like Knighthood as a choice in the builder and that’s strictly a campaign benefitting rule.

>>96200636
>Why would medieval times matter in this case? It's a ww1 era world.
well, because its not satanic or really anti-christian. also, pretty sure the history split up in like the 11th century or something.

tbf, I do think satanic 19th century stuff took a lot from astrology anyways so it can still fit aesthetically, just saying they arent diometric aesthetics

>>96200740
Sounds like a bit of builder stuff got you, yeah. Campaign stuff is really good, but it's assuming you're having multiple wins/losses to collect the stuff.

>>96200807
Fair enough. Personally I'd assume the Astrology kind of things is being held back for the weird Temple of Metamorphosis stuff in future for the msot part but that's an unsubstantial guess on my part.

I cannot for the life of me track down these fucking prints. They existed once and vanished. Are they meant to be greed hell knights? Does anybody have the files?

>>96201308
Theyre the annointed for the Mammon faction for the heretics, and anon gave the name a thread or two previous if you want to dig for the post that used that picture.

>>96201343
Ah thanks I found the name but the guy isnt selling them anymore

>>96201308
>I cannot for the life of me track down these fucking prints. They existed once and vanished. Are they meant to be greed hell knights? Does anybody have the files?
They got C&D'd of the rumor mill can be trusted. Modeler was user Dimomodels on cults 3D. I don't know if they're up on any of the repos anywhere unfortunately they do look absolutely rad though. Would also work well for iron sultanate
https://cults3d.com/en/users/Dimomodels/3d-models
Looks like he has a patreon too. If you find em let me know anon, my friemds hate me playing HL because I kick their asses and having Mammon models would encourage me to play the bad variant

>>96200324
I think the thing is so many exploration options are just letting you spend glory, bit of a feel-bad when you have a decent chance of being shot out of luck

Found a homebrew with new units.
>Bearing the mark of Amy, a president of hell who teaches his worshipers many truths of the stars, liberal arts, and mystical secrets. He is the holder of unknown truths and futile hope that is personified in his creations the False Prohpet's. Once human but painfully having large skeletal bird wings stabbed into their backs and their whole bodies covered in molten gold. The result is a servant of Amy who shines like a beacon of hope in the blood and death filled trenches that cover the world. They fly in the air like angels making those they descend upon believe they are angels of salvation only for them to come closer and reveal their truth nature. Their boney yet golden wings move like skeletal fingers that stab and slice apart all who stand in the way of a False Prophet. Those hideous wings as well as their golden fists and feet, all covered in blood from punching and stomping on hundreds of enemies to death. Worst off the False Prophet has the power to bewitch those who drink the blood of the Meta Christ or often hear the voice of God. The False Prophet can trick these chosen few into viewing them as actual angels of heaven and give them false instructions of hidden traitors who are really innocent allies or telling them of hidden enemy locations that are actually traps. Thankfully the False Prophets are not numerous for if they were, untold millions would be slane by their hand or lead to damnation by their lies.

>>96203549
>An unfortunate human captured and sent to the Court of the Seven Headed Serpent. These ones are forced to gaze into the eyes of Satan the Sinful Lord of Wrath. As a result, the victim loses their sanity and becomes a mindless killing predator with their minds rotting due to a constant state of berserker rage. They know no fatigue and never stop hunting for more victims to kill for the sake of their new Lord Satan. They are fast, strong, and relentless never stopping even if they are shot full of holes, even if their limbs are torn off, even if they are crushed under stone, even if you rip the head off. A Trooper of Satan will not die until its body is entirely destroyed or reduced to a barely recognizable corpse. A true testament to the Lord of Wrath’s power as these killing abominations are the weakest units within the Lord’s personal army.

>>96203558
>Bearing the mark of Valac, a president of hell who controls legions of serpent like dragons and fleshy serpent monstrosities. He has unfortunate victims who are captured by him, devoured and spat out by the dragons only to have their insides eaten out by his endless legions of snakes. The result is the Trench Assassins, a corpse made up of a hollowed-out body held together by thick armor and disgusting rags. The legs have been replaced with parts of living snakes to make a new tail like lower body allowing them to slither through the trenches with great speed and making little sound. They can easily overwhelm their enemies and fly past them, slicing their throats before a single soldier can shoot their guns.
>Should a Trench Assassin ever be forced to face an opponent head on they will unleash the fleshy serpents hidden within their stomach to devour any foe in front of them within mere seconds. This is not all there is to a Trench Assassin as their bodies have absorbed the essence of hellish dragons. The helmet over their head can open like the mouth of a serpent hence why it is soaked in dried blood. It can open and chomp down on any enemy the Trench Assassin desires, ripping off an entire head with a single chomp. Additionally, the Trench Assassin can blast fire balls out of its mouth as soon as its helmet opens just like the dragons that devoured the corpse while it was alive.

>>96203562
>Either a trooper of faith or a heretic that has been captured by the forces of the Court of the Seven Headed Serpent. One that has been turned over to Azazel, the new ruler of Gluttony. The result is a human possessed with a drop of Azazel, a black being that changes shape like water but is as tough as steel. Despite just being a trooper, they ravage whatever field they are deployed on killing thousands of the faithful and hundreds of heretics and demons of other factions. Like their master, Azazel of Gluttony their hunger knows no bounds as they devour all that they come across in a bloody feast. The Troopers of Azazel alone are proof that Azazel has earned his title of Gluttony and will one day take the Black Grail from the traitor Beelzebub.

>>96203579
>An unfortunate human infected with one of the newest and most vile plagues created by Beelzebub's Black Grail known as the Blighted Colors. The victim of this plague is said to be the worst of them all, the White Fungus. An all-infecting, all-consuming fungus that turns its victims into monstrosities who kill and infect all that they come across. There is no bullet that can harm them, no sword that can leave lasting damage, no hammer that can crush them, nor a flame that can burn them fast enough. The only thing that has saved the faithful and the damned numerous times form hordes of Victims is their slow movement. A victim is slow moving and in that time you can kill one from a distance should you have enough fire power. But bear in mind the Victims of the White Fungus are fast healing and mutate upon damage. You cannot kill a Victim of White Fungus you must destroy it entirely lest it will get back up possibly in a new and more dangerous form. It is said the best way to kill a Victim is to destroy all their pitch-black eye's but even this is no simple feat as even the simplest forms a victim can take possess hundreds of these eyes.

>>96203588
Bastard Child of the Black Egg
>Colossal monsters that resemble a blighted and vile version of the moth. Said to be a mistake created by Beelzebub, is often questioned as to whether it's actually a true servant of the Lord of Flies or not. Regardless these monstrosities hide among the smog filled clouds descending from them to rain down onto the faithful hundreds of large and parasitic eggs. These eggs will land hard on the ground crushing everything under them. They will then shoot out tendrils that drain the blood and nutrients of everything around them. Leaving the land baren and filled with mummified corpses of the faithful and the damned alike. The eyes on the wings of the Bastard Child allow it to never miss a single shot of its parasitic eggs. The Bastard Child is one of the greatest testaments to the power Beelzebub, even if its indirectly.

>>96203606
>A female victim of the Black Grail who was originally meant to be a Saint who would be bless by an angel. She was instead infected by the Red Worm the one of the Blight Colors, an unholy plague made from the Black Grail. Now her body is wrapped in bandages to help contain the thousands of nesting worms in her body. Like an artillery witch she can levitate the worms and shoot them out at enemies like bullets rarely ever running out. Her body is rotten but eternal allowing the red worms to forever feed on her insides and spawn more. Each victim who is shot slowly having their insides eaten and turned into yet another unwilling soldier of the Unholy Lord of Plague Beelzebub. Worst off these witches actively seek out more female saints to sacrifice them to the red worm. Creating more Witches of the Red Worm to infect more armies for their new master.

>>96203607
No bio. Just a note from the creator.
>I was originally going to call it the Plague Knight but there's already a unit like that so yeah, I'll just call it the Plague Baron instead. It can shoot black mucus out of its arms and barf it out the mouth of its helmet. It's meant to act like a general like unit like the Lord of Tumors but more aggressive and fast moving. I don't know I just came up with the design and decided to draw it, I personally think it looks cool, what do you guys think?

Damn those units are cool. I wish I could draw so I could make unit concepts like those
Keep up the great work anon

>>96201362
>>96201308
https://gofile.io/d/SkL8wZ

Original artwork was good
Actual game is turning out to be bad. Story and setting are blisteringly stupid.

>>96205094
Is extreme grimdark the only popular art style in tabletop?

>>96201362
> They got C&D'd
By who?

>>96205219
>Is extreme grimdark the only popular art style in tabletop?
The kind of people who play tabletop wargames are pretty edgy as a rule. So yeah, pretty much. Plus it's metal and rad as hell

>>96205219
Yes. There are other settings that dont do this, you dont even know their names or play them for as much as you complain they dont exist. Im not even trying to knock you, tabletop wargames tend to lean this way because it allows you to make over the top faction designs and when representing that as models its usually a lot cooler than just really normal army guys fighting other really normal army guys. I say this as someone who plays bolt action and hail Caesar, normal soldier guys are cool to me, but they are not very interesting looking compared to grimdark takes on them
>nazis are just guys in grey uniforms
vs
>the nazis have glowing symbols on their helmets and are all wearing gasmasks(theres might not even be gas, they just look cool) and are carrying a belt of severed fingers. Rule of cool trumps everything.
Its just more fun to make and use grimdark for games, even though I would argue that it makes for rather 2d settings.
>there is no hope, everything sucks, you dont want to live here or even know what youre fighting to preserve because everywhere is a shithole
I would like to see this setting depict the untainted places of the world as totally idyllic heavenly places on earth, like have it be a major juxtaposition where you have something genuinely wholesome and perfect with no corruption or dirt and shit everywhere, but theres no such depictions as yet and I dont expect there to be. The home youre fighting for is run by iron fist rulers where youre only aspiration in life is to die quickly in service of god so you dont get raped by demons in death. This is what I hate about grimdark, there is no hope or light in the dark.

What the fuck do you guys have to talk about that fills a general?
This shit is literally just tweets and .stl files. There's not even a game.

>>96209112
>>96209136
If youre going to just shitpost based on what other people with a seething hatred have said at least do it in a way that actually says something.

>>96209112
>There's not even a game.
Rules are literally in the OP mega. You’d have figured that out if you weren’t in such a rush to be offended by something.

>>96209177
Don't feed the trolls anon, they're desperate for attention, let them starve and they'll go shit up the shitmar threads again

>>96189460
If the Iron Wall was made by Mammon, the Sultanate would be getting raped up the ass harder than your average Heretic priest.

>>96208939
Do factions just need unique head designs?
Without the demon spikes?

>>96180322
>>96183111
Yeah basically what I was talking about.
>>96180777
>What’s the issue with it aside from just needing more variety with the types of animals incorporated into the design?
1) it is not an issue exclusive to Path of the Beast
2) the problem with Path of the Beast is that its function is way too similar to Church of Metamorphosis, i.e. conversion of people into beasties by force, you just gotta pick between shrimp flavour or dog flavour but both will be wearing discarded human skins. Kind of lame
>>96200624
And yes it could/should be inspired more by actual esoteric /x/ shit rather than extremely tried Christian-centric interpretations of them that seeped into pop culture.

>>96211666
>2) the problem with Path of the Beast is that its function is way too similar to Church of Metamorphosis, i.e. conversion of people into beasties by force, you just gotta pick between shrimp flavour or dog flavour but both will be wearing discarded human skins. Kind of lame
Satan, we are point-blank told that the Path only takes the willing - that their goal is the active ruin of God's Creation by convincing His children to turn from his light of their own volition. The CoM could not give less of a fuck about "willingness". You don't get a 'choice' as to whether or not you serve the Doorway - you merely determine how you will be made use of.

>>96209936
factions should be recognizable at a glance, preferably without having to be painted one specific color

>>96209936
Those feel like Heretic Legion in the modern day

>>96209936
Only tangentally related, but I would like to see a waragame with fiction elements that uses modern military designs for at least one of the factions. I want an excuse to use all these nice models people are making. Like make a knock of Metal Gear universe inspired tabletop game, where one size has normal army guys, the other has super soldiers, and another has robots etc

>>96219074
someone was making something like that years ago. It was a high concept art setting like TC with modern MGS style tech.
I tried to track down what happened to it but no one in awg knew what i was talking about

>>96212249
>dude they're willing converts
>dont mind the giant fucking ticks with runes clinging to them that had no effect on their choice
And also its the same "rain of icky stuff" gimmick, CoM does eggs, PotB does ticks, but its too similar IMO.
And once again they kinda lack their own style aside from uh... Moon because lmaowerewolves? All the evil factions are so fucking basic and boring dude, with just some good shit sprinkled here and there.

This might be interesting:

https://gamefound.com/en/projects/eonsofbattle/catacombs-of-the-blessed-dead

Depending on their prices, i will get those STL files. Looks super cool and modular, similar to GWs necromunda boards.

Dev anon here, its live.
Not replacing the compendium yet, we want to give a few months for bugs to be squashed and let people transition before we shut the old one down.
>trench-companion.com

>>96217053
I can empathisize with the seamstress if I had to make that THING. Dear god. Look at the detailing on the cuirass and the HORNS.
But why is she making it and for who?

>>96220638
>dont mind the giant fucking ticks with runes clinging to them that had no effect on their choice
Those give them the push, but it's explicitly stated in the short story for the Path that those who had strong faith and willpower weren't transformed. The ones who succumbed were those who CHOSE to give in.

>And once again they kinda lack their own style aside from uh... Moon because lmaowerewolves? All the evil factions are so fucking basic and boring dude, with just some good shit sprinkled here and there.
That's a matter of opinion.

I like doing homebrew cause dicking around on a word doc is an easy way to waste time at work, got a few ideas I want to try and flesh out and figured I'd ask for which sounds the best.

> Iron Sultanate variant based on the Sultan building forces to move through europe to show off how cool the sultanate is, they can pick a christian faction to learn secrets from which gives them unique options and they have to take both a Captain and an Alchemist to best show off what the Sultanate can do.

> Black Grail variant based on him having to sometimes loan out his stuff to other demons for infernal-poltiics reasons. They're the dregs of the dregs but they're loosened from Beelzebubs grasp and are given special items from their temp-masters they have to take to stop them fucking up hell which give unique boosts.

> Heretic Legion variant based around necromancy. Easier to kill but when each member is sent OOA the warband can pick one at the start of each turn to resurrect into a spooky ghost version of themselves, they get more blessings than other heretics as a sort of 'soul power' when things die.

> Court variant based around the Hunter. Instead of the seven sins they pledge to one of four lodges (North, South, East, West). In place of wretches they get an assortment of beasts they can move/place around the map. The hunters can attack their own beasts and gain boons for dealing damage in addition to Goetics.

> Trench Pilgrim variant based around wretches who escaped. Castigator-lead instead of war prophet, all the models have some sort of penance they must take, but gain a boon instead (ie. Penance against moving away from the enemy, but DASHing isn't a risky action so long as its towards an enemy).

>>96223018
I think Tuomas said they saw her making the cosplay and now the team helps her fund it.

>>96223051
>Those give them the push, but it's explicitly stated in the short story for the Path that those who had strong faith and willpower weren't transformed. The ones who succumbed were those who CHOSE to give in.
"Aerial biological warfare through conversion" is still way too much of an overlap.
>That's a matter of opinion.
Its my opinion and I am passionate about monster designs (because I wanna play monster faction duh). And I think Franchina does have some decent ideas but he - perhaps due to the gentleness of his own soul - either tries too hard or goes too bland. There is nothing really uncanny or stylish about TC monsters (bar exceptions I listed), a lot of them dont have a concrete and quintessentially "TC" aesthetic of their own like the Faithful factions.

>>96180341
Is that Ahriman in the far back right?

>>96227186
NTA but that's a Heretic Priest miniature.

New Lore document, added to the Mega link in the lore pdf's folder in the OP.

ZYGOTIC LORD

>>96227906
>goetic magic
>not actually goetic at all
>zygotic lord
>not really all that zygotic either
can someone make the authors stop wanking Antioch and direct some of the worldbuilding attention on the other side of the conflict?

>>96227906
TLDR: So werewolves and skinwalkers are just people taking the Path of the Beast to work their way back to undo God's Design.
They do this to become as close to the Primordial Ur-Man as possible, by doing this they somehow enter into a higher plane where God has left Behemoth, first of God’s Works, a beast that predates the rest of the world.
It's body is the Rosetta Stone of Creation's Metaphysics.
Zygote Lords, through reading the flesh of Behemoth, learn how to make their own Grand Design, to become a zygote of a being like God.
They then return to Creation and have to gestate, which explains the various titans sleeping under the ground that we've seen.
Path of the Beast is taking 'Made in the image of the Lord' to the fundemental aspects and trying to highjack Creation as their womb.
Neat stuff.

>>96227979
Retard.

>>96227906
ah yes the great fleshy dog with an umbilical cord moon also made of meat and eyes
looks retarded

>>96231103
>>96231075

>>96231103
The entire point of the Path of the Bast is homogenize yourself with the primordial animal kingdom when all creatures were clay in the hands of God, of course you're going to look like animal at the beginning of the end. The hands that remade you, your own, are not as skilled as the Lord's. Also, said moon is seems to be projecting light, so the ability to create Light might be on the table for the Zygote Lord. Which has more implications knowing that the Sefirot, the divine emanations, are a real thing in setting. An emanation of Light could be the ability to make all things under that light your own, should they not cling to their Free Will and/or their Patrons, be they infernal or divine.

>>96231207
*Path of the Beast
Ah well, autocorrect didn't proc because Bast is a goddess lol.

>>96231207
it's bad art

>>96231239
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. AKA pic related.

>>96231103
I don't understand posters who just say "____ is bad/retarded/sovless" with no actual explanation. Do people really think "This isn't good because I don't like it" is meaningful in away other than just as some sort of virtue signal?

>>96231286
They're basically just acting like catty women for attention. Ignore 'em.

>>96231286
/trench/ is best by shitposters. It got better after a while, but now summer is here.

>>96231356
>best
*beset

>>96231286
>ah yes the great fleshy dog with an umbilical cord moon also made of meat and eyes
>looks retarded

>>96231263
bad movie

>>96231075
>
There is literally nothing "goetic" about goetic magic and its a stupid word they tacked on for wow-factor. The demon classification is objectively not goetic, you can't argue against that.

>>96227906
>>96230809
It's basically a dark take on Buddhism, with Zygotic Lords as bestial Bodhisattvas returning to creation after attaining their dark enlightenment to further guide their still entrapped kin.

>>96233295
Never would've thought of drawing that parallel. It's interesting. I guess now all the people who want to play as the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom now have a natural enemy to be paired against.

>When you manage to fit a full warband on a single small plate
Feels good.
Now to print a second one, paint the guys and kidnap someone to try the game with.

>>96233295
India was said to be full of raksashas, who are hinted to belibg to path of the beast, so it fits. Himalaya mountains could be held by a very large pack.
Supplicants could believe they're reaching liberation by reincarnating into something nonhuman.

Are the stl's somewhere free?

>>96231356
>>96231360
Actually one of the least, for a general.

>>96234323
I got some if you tell me what you want and how to upload files

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqDzRewUd4c
New Invasion of Eire lore

>>96235313
Man it's kind of weird to say that you love how history is so carefully and thoroughly integrated into the setting and also earlier being so happy that the United States were just written out of existence.
Such is the way of things I guess, after all we United States folks are too up our own asses to be included without being the center pieces of the setting or some such. Fair enough, will be neat to see the world as it develops without the resources of the United States and with things like the Path of the Beast I don't doubt that the Inca, Aztecs, Mayans have some INTREASTING things going on.
To say nothing about the First People of North America, though I'd be surprised if they get touched on any time soon.

I got some time to work on my naval raiders again. They're getting closer and closer to being resdy for printing, hopefully also played. Although more I work on the files, more I find stuff I want to improve.
>>96235313
That's so wholesome.

>>96235472
You would have to rewrite their culture to fit the narrative anon, and then youre just treating into eye roll territory lol.
>xibalba pantheon are just demons, so they write aztecs, maya, incas etc as just a heretic faction
>"Racist. Why are the guys who rip peoples hearts out while theyre alive evil? They should be their own seperate pantheon that is also good guys. Also they should be a whole new faction not just an alternate one. Stop portraying them as savages"
They would have to wade through so much shite just to try and get them into the setting and gets away from the premise of WW1 and Crusades, which are a profoundly European centric and middle eastern war, not American. If they are added at the start you have to wonder why everyone isnt just flooding to America for safety, and if it has Americas real history.

Could revist this all again later when the relevant factions are all added to the base game, like it could be an expansion for the game, rather than integral to the base game. Im not unsympathetic to adding cool stuff for no other reason than them being cool, but if it has to twist the setting and its premise then dont.
>America has been discovered by "conquistadors"
>the natives can be either heaven or hell for these campaigns, they get access to different units depending but share the same pool of "natives"
>the conquistador faction with supporting natives vs corrupted natives and their "gods"
>campaign has its own rules that work around the fact the conquistadors have incredibly limited supplies, like perhaps the conquistador units you start with cant even be rebought, and the demon faction has demons which cannot be resummoned.

Theres your expansion that is focused purely on them, and gives a new campaign opportunity narratively where everyone is fighting to claim the new world. Adding this sort of stuff like America was discovered during the crusade is dumb when its an opportunity to move the setting forward in future.

>>96232905
Anon there' is no specific definition of goetic that doesn't include general devil magic

>>96235472
I think they're far more likely to tackle asia before the americas. So far it seems trade between the old/new world is mostly just so guys can smoke tabacco cause its cool.

>>96236902
I assume anon assumes the game treats goetic as meaning 'devil magic' rather than the game treating goetic as its actual meaning, and that only devils use it because of how touchy the faithful are about anything not directly of jesus/allah.

>>96236011
>You would have to rewrite their culture to fit the narrative anon.
Rewrite whose narrative in this case, anon?

>xibalba pantheon are just demons, so they write aztecs, maya, incas etc as just a heretic faction
That seems to be the direction that they are going in, yes.

>"Racist. Why are the guys who rip peoples hearts out while theyre alive evil? They should be their own separate pantheon that is also good guys. Also they should be a whole new faction not just an alternate one. Stop portraying them as savages"
Sounds like a reaction I've seen before, yeah.

>They would have to wade through so much shite just to try and get them into the setting and gets away from the premise of WW1 and Crusades, which are a profoundly European centric and middle eastern war, not American.
A world that has 1/3 of it's population converted to Heretic Legion at this point is not a European centric and middle eastern war. It is a different setting than our own IRL history.

>If they are added at the start you have to wonder why everyone isnt just flooding to America for safety, and if it has Americas real history.
Because distance from the original Hellgate doesn't stop another one from opening, as proven over and over again?

>Could revist this all again later when the relevant factions are all added to the base game, like it could be an expansion for the game, rather than integral to the base game. Im not unsympathetic to adding cool stuff for no other reason than them being cool, but if it has to twist the setting and its premise then dont.
My problem is that the entire Western Expansion Arc of the world is null and void not anything else.

[1/2]

>>96236011
>America has been discovered by "conquistadors"
Seems about right.

>the natives can be either heaven or hell for these campaigns, they get access to different units depending but share the same pool of "natives"
I would assume that the native animist culture of the old Americas would be Path of the Beast and folks just trying to survive that bullshit personally, but that's just me.

>the conquistador faction with supporting natives vs corrupted natives and their "gods"
Looks like that might be what's being done.

>campaign has its own rules that work around the fact the conquistadors have incredibly limited supplies, like perhaps the conquistador units you start with cant even be rebought, and the demon faction has demons which cannot be resummoned.
Neat primise, but getting off the subject matter of it being weird that they nuked the US out of existence.

>Theres your expansion that is focused purely on them, and gives a new campaign opportunity narratively where everyone is fighting to claim the new world. Adding this sort of stuff like America was discovered during the crusade is dumb when its an opportunity to move the setting forward in future.
It could have been solved easily by going, "Americas exist, they've got their own problems that stop them from being a safe place."

[2/2]

>>96237704
>>96237704
>I think they're far more likely to tackle asia before the americas. So far it seems trade between the old/new world is mostly just so guys can smoke tabacco cause its cool.
Agreed, was just being salty piece of shit about the fact that the US got retconned out of existence because 'reasons'.
As I said earlier, >>96235472 'after all we United States folks are too up our own asses to be included without being the center pieces of the setting or some such.' as a sarcastic nod that folks would gravitate to the United States faction for those reasons when I just feel like they'd exist.
They might not be a huge impact on the world seeing as the following facts are true even as the lore stands:
a) Everyone is going to be fighting a massive island hopping war across Caribbean no matter the lore of the Western Expansion.
b) The Faithful having reason for not settling too deep due to Path of the Beast/Heretic Cults/Colonization being a very distant second to the warfront at home, but trade routes are needed.
c) The New World being not overrun by Heretics when there have been no Faithful due to 'reasons' is kind of weak and makes me question some things like:
c.1) The Vikings never touched the Americas?
c.2) How would the Path of the Beast/Heretics work their way through the societies in the Americas with the utterly titanic lead they have on naval tech and thus ability to be out in the New World?
All of which could have been solved with a 'Other Nations exist but we're looking at the Middle East/Eurpean Theater at the center of all this first' instead of retconning an entire Western Front open on the side.

>>96237770
It just makes me consider certain things and they are mostly bad. America being a thing and having factions now comes with the self admitted expectation that people are going to assume America is the protagonist of the game, or complain when America doesnt get focus attention and is merely in the periphery to New Antioch and Europe, or isnt politically agreeable, look at the shit thats happned with the game already and that shit isnt even in the game itself, how do you think people are going to piss and shit when they see that the American factions are either wholly good, shunning the concept of savages as racist and instead making them eye rollingly progressive and the christians who came to their lands are wholly evil, or make them bad, because "America bad=woke, the developers hate you" apparently.

Also Is the plan to have the game turn into "all countries are factions" because I think its premise of being about the crusades and trench warfare is lost at that point and they shouldnt even bother with the heaven an hell motiff, its getting in the way. Are we going to start seeing a game whos premise is trench crusades, but the factions people are playing are aztecs fighting samurai in WW1 trenches over paintings of Jesus? Thats goofy. Im not saying its bad, Im saying its fucking stupid in terms of presentation, but it would certainly be fun and open the setting for more diverse models and dumb setups. Good luck balancing all that and trying to still fit hell factions in while adding all this shit. New Antioch is going to have like 20 sub factions at this point while stuff like BG still only has 3. Id be down for making samurai over aztecs, if they made them heretics you could make some cool stuff with them.

>>96238192
>It just makes me consider certain things and they are mostly bad.
Yep, it do be like that.
>America being a thing and having factions now comes with the self admitted expectation that people are going to assume America is the protagonist of the game, or complain when America doesnt get focus attention and is merely in the periphery to New Antioch and Europe, or isnt politically agreeable, look at the shit thats happned with the game already and that shit isnt even in the game itself, how do you think people are going to piss and shit when they see that the American factions are either wholly good, shunning the concept of savages as racist and instead making them eye rollingly progressive and the christians who came to their lands are wholly evil, or make them bad, because "America bad=woke, the developers hate you" apparently.
I personally don't believe that it would be so lacking in nuance, going by the way the the setting is being explored in the core rulebook already.
>Im not saying its bad, Im saying its fucking stupid in terms of presentation, but it would certainly be fun and open the setting for more diverse models and dumb setups. Good luck balancing all that and trying to still fit hell factions in while adding all this shit. New Antioch is going to have like 20 sub factions at this point while stuff like BG still only has 3. Id be down for making samurai over aztecs, if they made them heretics you could make some cool stuff with them.
Genuinely, the direction I'm seeing is a very Demons and Demon Followers Vs Path of the Beast/Other Wildcard Invasive Forces Vs EVERYONE ELSE. That's the truth of the matter, no matter what else is to be said about anything.

>>96238284
>Genuinely, the direction I'm seeing is a very Demons and Demon Followers Vs Path of the Beast/Other Wildcard Invasive Forces Vs EVERYONE ELSE.
The Path and the Demons are generally aligned - they're both Hell/Heretic Factions. The Beast was even thoroughly empowered and roused from slumber by the opening of the Hellgate.

>>96238453
Generally they seem to be different threats to the situation.
Heretic Forces are the Fallen/Devils Poxies extending the War In Heaven upon the land through their monsters and converts. They want to claim Earth as their own.
Path of the Beast seems to be a movement/mentality that afflicts folks in times of desperation like what the Trench Crusade itself induced and yes the Beast already existed as the Hellgate opening up was disruptive enough to wake some up from their slumber. They're people who've gone feral and then pursued the Path to the point that they've become something monstrous.
Correlation does not equal causation. Just because they woke the things from slumber does not mean they were the ones who put them there. After all, as we found out from the Zygote Lord entry recently, those that sleep are likely those who are maturing after having made their way back from Behemoth which is one of God's Creations and not something Heretical at all.

What I'm getting at is:
Heretics: We work for the Fallen/Devils who own us lock, stock, and barrel.
Court of the Seven-Headed Serpent: We work for the Seven Lords of Sin, most of us are some level of fucked up Human-Demon-Fallen-Animal Hybrids.
Path of the Beast: A Hunter Must Hunt.
Cult of the Metamorphosis: We have such wonders to show you.
All of them are bad, not all of them are Hell/Heretic aligned.

>>96238503
I would say they are. Its a bundle of factions that want to fight against god, so thryvare hell aligned. Hell itself is just chaotic mess of demonic or powerful entities fighting one another.

>>96168498 (OP)
Just printed a New Antioch army, but Lychee was saying there's 40,000 holes in my mechanized infantry.
I'm assuming that the official models don't have so many holes that there's no room for model.

>>96239537
>there's 40,000 holes in my mechanized infantry
Sounds like they fell victim to a Lust Court warband RIP

>>96236902
>>96237717
No I was talking about "goetic" in relation to, you know, actual fucking Goetia. And it is not exclusively encapsulated by Ars Goetia (Lesser Key), it is overwhelmingly definitive/iconic
And instead of drawing upon various "magick" traditions TC just adopts basic bitch "demons as imagined by 20th century murrican protestants"

>>96239696
Retard.

>>96239696
Yes

Goetic power is the term given to power attained through communion with demons and or malicious spirits in general, this practice is known as Goetia, now answer me this, do you think this setting has "good demons"? The answer is of course no, so why the fuck would they be making DEMON MAGIC something neutral that can be applyed to various traditions outside of christianity where non demons can do it, when demons are real tangible things in this setting.
>wtf guys, there no good wholesome witches who just wanted devil powers in order to heal people like the traditional pagans Lithuania and Poland who practiced goetic rituals?
No, no there isnt, the witch is in league with an actual demon and the powers the attained where to turn people inside out for fun and they only get that power because the devil saw their malintent. You want this setting to be something it was never even trying to be, which is trying to present good and evil as a matter of interpritation. Communion with the devil is evil, there is no "good" goetic magic because it requires communion with a creature that eats babies, has blades for arms that salivates acid as it laughs about how it made a whole population the bubonic plague. Goetia is devil worship for power, and always has been till modern media tried to make satanic shit tolerable.

>>96239696
Anon "Goetia" was a catch all term to describe all kinds of "low magic" performed by what people believe to be witches, sorcerers, etc. In comparison to theurgy or "high magic" that's associated with priests and miracles. Goetia's original use was literally just a derogatory term to refer to "bad" magic.

So we got Leviathan and Behemoth, so how Ziz gonna be?

>>96244349
Well there is a space program so maybe its up there?

>>96238192
>>96237770
This is why I'm perfectly happy for the devs to entirely leave the Americas out of the picture, other than occasional nods to it existing, and it seems the devs are more than prepared to leave questions hanging in the air.

>>96244977
Abstract monsters from outer space would be a cool faction

What's the equivalent of Space Marines in Trench Crusade?

>>96245072
Personally don't like it because it makes no sense at all, but canon be what canon is. It's a whole thing, just need to keep Roland. Heh.

>>96245381
What do you mean by that?

>>96245381
The Military Orders of the Crusader Knights maybe? We know they've got some crazy shit going on in lore, but we don't have those on the tabletop yet.
Communicants are more like having Ogryn that're actually clever about shit.
Paladins are basically small mechs in humanoid form, seventeen feet tall.
Shrine Anchorites are basically discount Dreadnaughts.
Mechanized infantry is more like Guardsmen with Power Armor, which is radd but not exactly the same.
So, yeah the Military Orders of the Crusader Knights seems like the right fit for Space Marines.

>>96245381
Janissaries

>>96243084
Thats the basest meaning of the word that doesn't encapsulate the term and its history. You can't un-marry "goetia" from "ars goetia", it is close to being synonymous with how much cultural resonance Lesser Key of Solomon had, to the point where a great chunk of the wikipedia entry you're referring to talks about it.
>>96241798
The fuck are you even babbling about? Noone is asking for demons and their worshippers to be "good" or "wholesome", I am asking for demons and their worshippers to have better fluff that actually taps into historical grimoires and texts detailing summoning devils.
You know, in a fucking alt-history setting.

>>96178474

Gigantic wars are just a shitload of skirmishes occurring at the same time. The Battle of the Somme was, simultaneously, dozens of British and French divisions trying to overrun the German lines, and, zoomed in, John Kerr leading a 12 man trench raid on a German redoubt with bayonets and grenades.

>>96246972
I dont know what youre asking for. Is the complaint that its called "goetic"? Should it just be called "devil magic?" Becuase at the end of the day goetic magic is just a catch all term for "dark magic" it is not specifically rooted to grimoires, grimoires are how you would GET goetic magic, they are not the magic itself or even necessary, the book of Solomon even describes how demon spoke to a man through his reflection and gave him knowledge, no texts involved. Grimoires are how demons would use proxys to influence the world by giving humans access to things they shouldnt have and doing the demons will, as the demon themselves could not touch the world directily, but now that they are actually here they dont need the grimoires to get humans to influence the world on their behalf, and they dont need to consult said grimoires to use the magic they wouldve bestowed.

If a demon wants to breath fire they can just do it, they dont need to write an instruction manual for themselves and take classes. Mysticism stops being otherworldy when you start explaining it like science. This setting also has ressurection, are you going to complain that the pilgrim that does this wasnt kept in a cave behind a stone for 3 days, or should we just call it "respawning" because "ressurection" specifically refers to a theurgical definition.

Im not even saying they shouldnt flesh shit out, Im just confused about why this specific implementation is bad. How would you implement grimoires or iconic magic, baring in mind that this is a game, and would have to tie into gameplay. There are blessed icons and unholy trinkets as items in the game by the way, you could easily say that its a grimoire.

>>96245444
>The Military Orders of the Crusader Knights maybe? We know they've got some crazy shit going on in lore, but we don't have those on the tabletop yet.
On that matter the militant orders make no fucking sense, how do they even get recruits?
>hey kid, wanna join our holy brotherhood?
>as punishment for the betrayal of peoples entirely unrelated to you ten centuries ago, you'll be cursed to eternal damnation if you fail to die in battle
>you'll also suffer indescriptible agony while your body and mind are reforged
I'll join the mech troopers instead, thanks.

>>96246972
>Thats the basest meaning of the word that doesn't encapsulate the term and its history.
Retard.

>two TC shitpost threads one after another
You guys really set him off huh.

>>96246972
>Thats the basest meaning of the word that doesn't encapsulate the term and its history. You can't un-marry "goetia" from "ars goetia", it is close to being synonymous with how much cultural resonance Lesser Key of Solomon had, to the point where a great chunk of the wikipedia entry you're referring to talks about it.

Anon the reason the book is called "ars goetia" is because of the meaning of the word "goetia".

It's like you're trying to discount the use of the world "lord" because it's not being used in reference to lord of the rings

>>96168498 (OP)
I'm new to this setting. Just read up on the cool lore behind Ireland (which got me into this). I saw there were threads here hating on the setting, is there any particular reason for it or?
Also any good lore channels?

>>96248711
>On that matter the militant orders make no fucking sense, how do they even get recruits?
From what I understand the whole thing is about how the Crusader Knights feel enormous guilt over the whole 'We're the denomination of the faithful that opened the first Hellgate' thing. So, they likely recruit similar to Trench Pilgrims, just find people who are inspired/guilty/desperate/idealistic/zealous/etc. enough and give them purpose through the Order's Oath of Penance.

>I'll join the mech troopers instead, thanks.
Fair, mech troopers may be doped up soldiers, but at least they're not condemed from the start and have to go through the Crusader Knights Four Rites of Passage.

>>96251568
Some people just don't like it for no reason, others don't like it for IRL religious reasons, others hate on new stuff, the usual responses to a new Table Top RPG in my experience. New stuff takes a while to settle in because if you think about it things like Warhammer Fantasy/40k and things like Bolt Action is that they have over a decade to build up.

As for lore channels? There are a few. Now, I personally find Scannerbarkly to get a little to in-the-weeds with his own personal fanfictions, but he does have a decent voice and he reads a lot of the lore of the various units as part of his channel. So, I'd recomend him only with the warning to not take any of his Short Stories as actual Canon.

>>96251568
>I saw there were threads here hating on the setting, is there any particular reason for it or?
They don't like it for political reasons, it is Reddit fedora safe edgy.
>Oh course the war prophet for Europe is a black woman

>>96251568
>is there any particular reason for it or?
There’s a very anti-28/Blanchitsu/“mudcore” community on /tg/. Some are just trying to troll.

>>96251568
the TC community is pretty toxic, we aren't even allowed to discuss it kek.

>>96253825
>prophet for europe
You have no idea what the game even is do you.

>>96253825
There is no "prophet of europe" that is a generic prophet you COULD use for a pilgrim faction, of which is whatever you want them to look like. Is there mere inclusion of black people now a problem? Look up who Moses wife was anon.

>>96253825
>prophet of Europe
What? Trench Pilgrims are not a unified faction with a leader, theyre all different groups with different leaders that rent even necessarily beholden to the Vatican, heres another example of a war prophet. Infact, theyre easily the most varied in aesthetics and beliefs, you can fit them to be anything and look like anything with any theme. Theyre just random packs of zealots from across the world that form their own parties that follow their own interpritation of the church, there is nothing about them that is specifically suppose to be european lol.

>>96254381
>>96254405
>>96254496
Surely you cannot be surprised that detractors here know fuck all about the game/setting.

>>96251568
People are butthurt they got gatekept. They try to frame it as woke take over, which caused some culture warriors attack the game. Just ignore it.

>>96255020
no one got gatekept lol, troons are absolutely schizo with the concept of "gatekeeping" , they completely miss the point. They are hysterically afraid of themselves getting gate kept and interpret as something you enforce by authoritarian means. So they ban people and exclude people and created a toxic community of trans loonies.

>>96255294
Sounds like u got gatekept lol

This is my first warband.
Debating starting a Grail (Dirge of the great hegemon) or a Court Greed warband

What is a cool alternative model for a Greed Praetor? Dont really like the official one.

>>96255691
Don't give it attention, its not worthy of such charity.

>>96255779
Damn. Good shit.

>>96255691
>ruining your community and just driving driving everyone away from it
>gatekeeping
now you'll complain that everyone has built their own thing independent of it
>>96255915
>dont give it a platform ree no criticism

>>96255939
>off topic culture war bullshit about a fan discord
>again
The mods used to be a lot better about keeping this thread clean.

>>96245383
>Personally don't like it because it makes no sense at all
Not everything needs to be explained, nor really, should it be.
40k is a sterling example of, and warning against, what happens when you try to explain too much.
Considering that the devs thus far have been going for a Weird History and anything about the Americas means they need to create things whole cloth, I expect them, due to their own statements, to have a very soft touch on the entire region, for the better.

>>96255294
No, youre being gatekept. This is what it looks like when youre on the outside looking in, its just suddenly a bad thing when its happening to you and the develops actually just need to listen when its you doing it. Youre doing the equivelent of calling people racist nazis bigots etc when they tell you to fuck off when you try to steer the ship as a secondary that is only coming in becuase they want their world views expressed and validated in a piece of media and only want people they like in the space. You dont give a fuck about the game and want to cast terms to dictate its direction, youre the tranny now. Fuck off, get gatekept, make your own game instead of trying to take mine etc.

>>96256057
Anon, why are you interacting with trolls and malcontents?
It doesn't make the thread better, that is what the jannies are for.

>>96255779
Saw someone using balrog with some stuff added to it for it.

>>96256073
NTA, but that could absolutely work with some bitz and a decent paintjob.
Still need to order that brazen bull model, too.

I think im gonna go with this model, really love it. Its from a guy on insta>>96256073
>>96255779

>>96256057
i'm not being gatekept. TC is open source, i have all the rules lore and the stls.
You people are insanely stupid

>>96256036
>you aren't allowed to talk about the elephant in the room
stupid poltard assholes like this that think they are gatekeeping "nazis" >>96256057
While being the actual watermelon nazis

>>96256350
Noone said theyre gatekeeping nazis, they want the political brainrot secondaries of all forms to fuck off. Notice how there isnt some embraced push from trannies to troon the game? Because they they were told to fuck off aswell, those people also came out talking shit about how its eurocentric and white centered, and were promptly gatekept aswell. Noone normal wants this "everything is political" shite.

>>96256066
> Troon crusade
> Long Proud history of whining and crying to mods/discord Jannies
> Save us 4chins Jannies!!!!!!!
Why are you even here. Shouldn't you all be in the discord? Imagine cheering on the faggot 4chongs mod teams - didn't the hack show you their true colors?

>>96256346
Noone is excluding you from just enjoying the game, thats not what gatekeeping is anon. Its when people like a thing as it is and then other people come in saying it should change according to their demands and are told no, and they start calling you names for not letting them stear the ship in a different direction that noone asked it to be taken. I dont need political pandering from creators to like a game, I just dont want woke shit in my fucking games, thats the bar media has to get over before I even give it attention, I dont need them to have the creator come out in a grand wizard outfit and start talking about how they want to curb stomp trannies, that would only be a bonus, it is not a reason the game would suddenly flip to being good now if it was shit before.

>>96251568
The lore overall... Doesn't work.
It is packed with random metal stuff that hardly stick together, there are so many historical errors that you want to stop think and enjoy it as a casual consumer, not a lore expert.
The lore is still not complete and it is composed by just some short writings, you can go to the official site and download a lore compendium.

>The scandal
This game is obviously a parody of Crusades with over the top stuff and focused on the kink of the lead artist and creator of drawing monsters -without thinking too much-.
Some dudes, for some reasons, thought it was a ChadCrusade the Game and LARPed as a fanatic zealot and was shocked to find it was not a pro Christianity game.
Other dudes got the parodistic spirit of it and starter asking questions about many other cultures thinking they will be mocked in the same way...
Sadly the dev team, yes they are progressist and atheist, made a 180 degree turn and said that all the culture would be treated with respect and so on because they "don't punch down, they punch up", and are pro gay space marine and women custodes on WH40K and all that stuff.

>Black woman warprophet
Yes, she is a middle finger to the "Chuds".

>Hell is supposed to be winning
But hell forces occupy a very tiny area of the world

And so on.

>>96256895
This is all made up. What is with people trying to tear down an IP that doesnt have woke shit in it because it doesnt specifically make a point of being anti woke. Youve become the faggots people would tell to fuck off when they show up talking about representation and problematic designs.

Arch won
Tranny Crusade is dead

>>96258769
why the fuck would the modern irish flag exist in TC
Reddit ethnicity

>>96257603
What is made up?
I enjoy the game and the overall vibes, I play it and try to get in more people, I just said what happened.
The game is what it is, it could be a master piece it ended to be mid lorewise, mechanically is solid.

>>96258958
NTA, but the entire post is secondary talk and trolling, what I would expect people to be parroting from trolls they saw, not anything they actually read themselves.
>I play it
Post models with timestamp.

>>96258958
>Yes, she is a middle finger to the "Chuds".
This is one of the first designs we got, when "chuds" liked the game. It wasnt made specifically to upset anyone.
>But hell forces occupy a very tiny area of the world
They clarified this. The war is everywhere and hell forces show up everywhere, everywhere has a battlefield, just because Europe has a bunch of factions it does not mean there is no war there and they control all of it. That area that hell controls is literally hell on earth, that is not to say that hell is not anywhere but there, thats just the place that is completely unassailable.
>This game is obviously a parody of Crusades
According to the guy that made it, he just likes religious imagery, its not meant to be a parody, its just stuff he actually likes, hes not mocking it
>not a pro Christianity game.
In what regard, the christians are the good guys.
>Sadly the dev team, yes they are progressist and atheist, made a 180 degree turn and said that all the culture would be treated with respect and so on because they "don't punch down, they punch up", and are pro gay space marine and women custodes on WH40K and all that stuff.
There was no 180, they never made the game on the premise of being anti woke, the guy just drew some cool pictures that people liked. Then people came into the game wanting to make TC a flag to wave in the culture war and the creator wanted nothing to do with it and was delcared woke for that. Its dumb and the game is written off for shit that isnt even in the game itself but stuff in the community, its fucking dumb man. There is no community that doesnt have retards in it, the overwhelming majority of people are ever like that minority, even in "woke warhammer" it isnt like that.

The guy just likes drawing metal religious imagery and made a game for it, its not deep, it is not a progressive game made as a woke bludgeon to own the chuds. Even if he was, none of it is reflected in the game.

>>96259252
>Catholic Church is cloning Jesus Christ and feeding it to create monsters
>WH is not a parody
>Starship troopers is not a parody

>>96259456
Youre confusing parody for satire. One is making fun of something the other is portraying that thing in a way that makes it seem bad. The church are the good guys in this and the creator is not mocking christianity, the same way the humans are the good guys in Starship Troopers because you need drastic action when youre up against an enemy that has fucking swords for arms and east people, are you one of those people that roots of the bugs to win and projects onto them instead of the humans?
>but they clone jesus
Why does that make them bad or is depicting the christianity as bad? Theres literal demons running about, you dont have room to argue about ethics, you need to win. Also should be noted that the meta christ is divisive in the setting, there are sects that dont agree with it and so dont have access to stuff like communicant units and ressurection. Its just a piece of fluff its not trying to make a mockery of christianity anon, its more an explaination for why people can come back to life.

>>96259509
>Youre confusing parody for satire
True, Starship Troopers Is satire, TC is parody.
>>but they clone jesus
>Why does that make them bad or is depicting the christianity as bad?
I said parody, not that they are the bad guys, buy the setting is a parody like Powerwolf.
And I love Powerwolf, buy they are a parody.

>>96259577
So what are we arguing about here. Calling something a parody suggests that its doing something in mockery, parody is when you immitate something and go over the top with the goal of comedy, the guy making it genuinely seems to just like religious imagery and has said as much, even though he isnt religious. I dont think its being made to be a parody of christianity, more like an over the top glorification of it because he just likes drawing it in cool stuff.

>>96259746
>I dont think its being made to be a parody of christianity
You. It is a blasphemic mockery even to suggest the clonation of Jesus Christ.
Who cares wha you think or pretend, it is exactly that.
It doesn't mean a Christian cannot have fun with it, buy he will recognize it for what it is.

>>96259791
Oh youre one of those. Never mind.
>its an insult to the religion because the christians are metal and do cool shit like clone jesus and wear his image as armour instead of putting it on a nice shelf to appreicate
>recognize it for the insult it is, its TOO cool
Yea youre right, its a game specifically insulting christians for sure. The creators definately went out of their way to give the middle finger to christianity with this one. Contact FOX news and let them know that Christianity is being trodden on for amusement in a tabletope game, lets take it back to the 90s except were on their side this time clutching our pearls that the youth are indulging in a game where they can also play on the side of the Satan, and whats more, they can win as Satan! This is such blasphemy!

Come on man.

>>96258958
You implying that the game is anti-christian but not anti-other stuff.

Like the anti-christian element is how it places the church in a bad light due to how they do horrible things to people in order to fight hell even the other "good" factions also do this.

>>96259456
And th Muslims are also creating weird monsters in their basements and the more secular faction is getting their soldiers hopped up on combat drugs.

This is meant to be a "gray" setting where even the "good guys" have to do reprehensible things.

>>96260054
Those what?
I am atheist but I know something about religions.
I told you what it is, you can keep doing mental gymnastic buy the sky is blue and the grass Is green.
An altar with a bullet is... Cool, metal and... A parody!
I don't you are stupid enough to not understand that bit you are just pretending.
Metal should be metal without this gay defensive attitude.
https://youtu.be/GpxFUo7oxWM?si=2h1A4nqXc4NuW9A1

>>96260130
Yes the grimdark of IS Is mostly based around these homunculi.
It is quote mild compared to the crazy zealots of TC and Communant and doesn't touch Islam itself... Just the Assassins may look like some alien heresy inside Islam... But they are considered like that by muslims of all sects.

>>96260205
Ah, I never talked about good guys, what the fuck do you want from me, are you bots?

>>96260167
Its as I said, youre getting offended on behalf of pearl clutchers, you yourself are not offended. Its performative. And I agree, if youre one of those people that finds this sort of thing offensive, this IS offensive, youre right! I dont think those people would actually play a game where you can also play as hell fighting against heaven and leading an army of rapists and demons, I think clone jesus is the least of the games "offensive" things to christians.

>>96260340
>the mental gymnastic Is going Crazy
I am not offended, I said that It Is a parody of Christianity and it IS, had to explain the obvious due your defensive and negationist attitude.
My Critiques are just:
>Not metal enough due marketing and fear of being camncelled
>Weak world building
Just that.
You can keep doing your mental backflips.

>>96260411
NTA, but you sound bery offended althoughbeit

>>96260411
Why even bring it up that its offensive if you arent offended. DOnt be offended on other peoples behalf, for all you know they people youre saying would take offense actually love it. I agree about weak worlbuilding by the way, that is probably the only thing I have to criticize of the game. They need a timeline of events and theatres of war.

>>96260130
And I'm sure the 3rd theistic religion is treated equally irreverently.

>What Trench Crusade is not
>TC not an excuse for you to discuss IRL religion

>>96261676
>don't discuss the entire premise of the setting that everything revolves around

>>96261745
The Christianity in the game is a millennium removed and foundationaly different to religion ORL. You are discussing religion; you aren’t discussing you’re derailing.

>>96261912
you are the reason the TC community is toxic

>>96260451
>>96260471
>Why even bring it up that its offensive
Are you bots?
When I said that?
Can you stop putting your categories of thinking on other people?
Thank you.

A single space marine can solo this entire setting.

>>96247462
>Im just confused about why this specific implementation is bad
I think that it is "unfair" that good factions get fleshed out to stand on their own legs while pulling historical influences but evil ones dont and instead get fluff just reflective of vague ideas of what demons are like that were largely shaped by American 20th century protestantism and pop-culture that arose from it. Court fluff seems like a huge afterthought.
So yes, I do think that there is an inherent imbalance when it comes to the amount of attention given to Faithful versus the amount of care put into Evilbadvillain types.
I would also implore you to not devolve this into some sort of "well DUH the bad factions don't deserve anything! They're NPCs after all!" /v/-grade posting.

>>96262611
>well DUH the bad factions don't deserve anything!
Thats a bit reductive. My biggest criticism of the game is the lack of a timeline and general world building, I give the hell factions some leniency as from the perspective of heaven forces they dont know what is happening in hell or their territory, we dont get the daily musings of what what demons do, so it is only annecdotes and speculation on their part when describing what they have seen, BUT, they definately should flesh that out more rather than keep it strictly from the perspective of outsiders looking in.

Most people interested in the game are interested in the designs, not the fluff, and again, dont be reductive and assume that that means noone WANTS more worldbuilding, its just that that is not why they came and its not a priority. Make a timeline, fit the factions into that timeline.

>>96262767
>My biggest criticism of the game is the lack of a timeline and general world building
Makes sense for a game that hasn't actually hit release yet and a dev team that has already stated they are going to leave entire swathes of the timeline untouched so they do not have a 40k situation.

Will pagans be a separate faction?

>>96262970
Probably not but I wouldnt be opposed to it, they would be heretics in the eyes of the church, or tolerated like the Irish as a minor faction. Having it actually canonized that there is multiple pantheons would kindof scrub out the games "fight between heaven and hell where pictures of jesus are bulletproof" because it would imply that other gods exist outside of heaven and such miracles are no longer a matter of believe because its proven there is definately a heaven and hell and the Abrahamists were right.

If you want to play as pagans you can just model your guys to be as such, what is it you want to play as vikings? Just do it, with narrative campaigns a major part of the game is making "Your guys" not just picking a faction and fitting into the cookie cutter mold for that faction. You could pick heretics as your faction and model them to be not fucked up, and say "these guys worship Odin, its probably not Odin but there does seem to be some divinity aiding the", they are not accepted by either side and live in X location protecting their land" like the Dirge and Trench Ghosts, who are enemies of everyone and are not large enough factions that they get whole countries on the map associated with their specific beliefs.

>>96262935
>so they do not have a 40k situation
NTA but what situation?.. HH is not even 30k as per what GW themselves said and everything from 30k to 40k is largely empty for whatever you want to insert there

>>96262767
>so it is only annecdotes and speculation on their part when describing what they have seen, BUT, they definately should flesh that out more rather than keep it strictly from the perspective of outsiders looking in
Yeah having a locked perspective is a restrictive and a minus, I'd say there is definitely room to write from the POV of some low-ranked acolyte or hell-conscript.
>>96263057
>scrub out the games "fight between heaven and hell where pictures of jesus are bulletproof"
I mean that is basically inevitable, Iron Sultanate already kind of puts a dent in that a little bit while Church of Metamorphosis kinda is all about "deepest", "truest" Hell which doesn't and won't even look like anything remotely biblical/christian.
Making the premise so Christian-centered was an inherent flaw of the setting since that instantly begs the other can-o-worms of "but what about the other cultures?" to be opened.

>>96263154
>what situation?
So you are too young to remember the furor over the Grey Knights and Necron 5e codices that inserted a lot of lore in to that 'empty space'?
More lore != better, and 40k in particular is a wonderful object lesson of that.
Even still, the 'more lore' crowd are also the ones who do not really grok that the 40k they are comparing the game to came out the year I was born; you have 40 YEARS of writings, fan and official and inbetween, to see.
The devs are not trying to recreate 1000 years of worldwide history, and have stated they do not want to ruin the mystery of the setting in a cynical ploy to sell novels.

>>96263179
see
>>96262935
You are not going to get official explanations for the things people keep complaining about, not for years at least.
Make your own headcanon and run with it, as the devs intended.

>>96263307
>as devs intended
You're kinda whiteknighting, the dev "intention" seems to be a pretty questionable one if they're content to shaft one of the conflict's sides like that when it comes to fluff and art.

>>96262970
I've heard rumours they will be, but who knows. So far we know that demons decieve pagans to fight for them.

>>96263371
>they're content to shaft one of the conflict's sides
Which one?
I refer to the Americas and a fair bit of the Far East. Every group introduced thus far is supposed to get a full write up, such as the Abyssinians, Hebrews, and such.

>>96263732
... I never even mentioned Americas or Far East? All of my posts were largely about demons and Hell fluff, anon.

Flesh Bled
>>96268995
>>96268995
>>96268995