Thread 96179187

Drip Bearers edition

>Previous massacre: >>96173109

>HH 3.0 Leaks
https://imgur.com/a/jYokLre
https://files.catbox.moe/98h6h7.pdf
https://gofile.io/d/cnJk0N
>Mech Leaks
https://imgur.com/a/lRaqKSw
>SA Gofile
https://gofile.io/d/YEEqBN

>New Edition upon us
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)
https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8
https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS
>30k TACTICA & TIPS
https://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/2.0_Tactics/General_Tactics

『Adeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialis』
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/
>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colours
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview
>More lists
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions
>What size magnets do I need?
5x1mm
>Tactics
https://1d6chan.miraheze.orug/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics

>Thread question:
So. Did you pig out on Saturnine?

saturnine look like shit and i shant be buying them

>>96179187 (OP)
>TQ
No. Grug have strong hand.

>>96179187 (OP)
No but I'm tempted to get the guns for conversions.

>>96179187 (OP)
I bought the books like a good pay pig, but I didn’t get the saturnines. Maybe if the WB daemon ones get cool rules I’ll splurge in the future.

>>96179187 (OP)
Pigged out on 1 copy 37% off with a code. I'm one of those sexual deviants that likes the saturnine minis. Not a fan of the turret though, so given that's the only thing I don't want, I haven't decided on more than 1 copy, or if the satpraetor, cent, mk2s, dread, and terminators altogether would be cheaper individually on ebay. I think the former.

>>96179197
I will buy one box to turn into Mondoshawan from the fifth element.

>>96179187 (OP)
Iron warrior anon from last thread, thoughts on this as a base? No oils yet

>>96179187 (OP)
Got 4 Termis+10 Tacs for $65
Hoping to pick up a discounted dread too

>>96179187 (OP)
I bought a trio to make my own opinion. The design is dumb but the kit itself seems pretty good.
The dreadnought I actually like, but I'm gonna wait for the grav cannon to come out before I get one.

>>96179232
Looks good.

is there a mech pdf yet?

Do WB have any notable terminator formations in the fluff? Obviously they have no such rules.

>>96179187 (OP)
Anyone have any ideas on how to give a saturnine command squad all hammers without buying 6 praetors?

>>96179280
Assemble an alternative or even have some hammer looking device mounted in place of the fist.

>>96179187 (OP)
I did, I've been wanting plastic Mk2 since Calth.
My interest in saturnines got way higher when I saw someone posting pics of their sub assemblies, and it turns out you can just leave the shoulders off entirely which helps so much.

I also play Scars, so leaving off armor to justify their +2" movement isn't even that crazy.

>>96179278
The upcoming saturnine book will seemingly have rules for one.
>but I want catas/tarts
Well get bent I guess.

>>96179278
There's the Harbingers of Death, Erebus' bodyguard.

>>96179293
>Assemble an alternative
Totally fine with that, I'm just trying to think of hammers that are big enough to look correct. 30k thunder hammers are kind of small by comparison, and 40k assault terminator hammers are sorta short.

I have a stupid idea.
Assuming Saturnine Centurions can take double twin heavy disintegrators - three in a unit of 10 tactical marines shoved in a Spartan. 12 S7 AP2 D2 shots and let the tacticals take the overheats.
If I've fucked up and they can't join tacticals, slap 'em in a unit of 5 barebones Cataphractii instead.

>>96179278
I heard of the "anointed", but I don't know who they are. Though I'd think a terminator would be a most valuable offering

>>96179311
If they can get access to an apothecary somehow, could they do recovery rolls to lower the disintegrator damage from D2 to D1 on their own overloads?

>>96179278
There's the anointed, 40k word bearers exalted terminators that are said to have fought in the heresy and the siege by Lorgar's side. That's what I'm basing mine off of at least.

>>96179187 (OP)
>TQ
If I could find a set of 3 for less than 40€ with shipping, I might pick them up and start converting back into some exo-suits. But at the moment I can't find any for below 50€ with shipping.

>>96179321
I don't think you can use the medic reaction on your own turn.

>>96179278
At least in 40k the terminators of the legion are usually called the Anointed and work directly under the Coryphaus which is what they call their Lords who work directly alongside the Dark Apostles. It is probably largely similar in 30k.

>>96179330
>fought in the heresy and the siege by Lorgar's side.
lorgar wasnt at the siege though

>>96179318
Theyre a formation/order by the 41st millenium, but like the position of koriphaeus and dark apostle I dont think the legion would have had it.

>>96179280
The praetor kit comes with two staff weapons, for different arms, so 3 praetors would be enough for the weapons alone. Then just find some big Siegmarine hammer heads and convert the axe into a hammer.

>>96179311
That's not how overload works. Wounds from a weapon's misfires can only be tanked on models in the unit that were in the fire group that caused it; IE, only models that fired the disintegrators can take the wounds from disintegrator overloads. It's only worded this way to avoid having to fire each overload weapon separately.

>>96179338
The thing is in 40k the WB have a funky command system. You have the dark apostle, who is the overall leader, but theyre a spiritual figure. Then you have the actual military leader, the coryphaus. The latter is a more mundane space marine commander, as opposed to the guy thinking in terms of "the dark gods will be pleased by the ritual deaths of 10.000 upon the equinox of the dark ascention".

In HH theyre still being led by praetors and shit.

>>96179337
Damn.

>>96179352
True, though the axe is kinda shittier than the fist imo.
Actually the fist may be the right play because saturnines can only shoot 1 gun without standing still anyway, and their AP3 particle shredder flamers are going to be clutch in volley fire. I'm not sure if you'll be able to do disintegrator + hammer + particle shredders on command squads. Doing hammer + fist + shredder is a bit of a waste of an arm.
(This also may end up being the ONLY legal loadout based on the picture, so who knows?)

>>96179318
>>96179330
>>96179338
>>96179342
The word bearers trilogy was written before black library ruined the fluff

>>96179354
Ah, damn. Rereading, I see the bit I missed.
Death Guard might be still able to play around with it by dumping all the misfires onto a centurion with unnatural resilience if Saturnine Centurions are allowed to take that prime advantage. But I don't want to play Death Guard and that's a big if.
Back to the stupid idea of double twin disintegrator suicide bombs that shoot, die, and blow up on top of the enemy.

>>96179396
question for you then, and HHG at large.

When do you consider BL HH to go to shit?

>>96179390
>True, though the axe is kinda shittier than the fist imo.
And that's why you convert them into hammers.

>PDFs only include stuff that doesn't have a plastic kit.
>New Talons PDF doesn't feature most of the Sisters range.

Guys. It's happening. Full plastic Sisters range is coming! Sisters snipers, Sisters bikers, Sisters beastmasters, plastic Aquisitor, it's all happening!

>>96179415
When the authors decided to make the series into something they could keep going for ten years instead of making a succinct novelization.

>>96179441
I wish, it'll be a plastic custodes release and SoS will get a single character model AT BEST

>>96179415
It's just hit or miss. The first three books are generally well accepted, then from there it's a lot of "This book sucks, this book is forgettable, this one was good, etc".

Some authors have some great books and some duds (Abnett, Reynolds), some authors are just crap (Mcneill), a few authors never miss (Wraight, Counter)

It's hard to point to any one moment because the slop started immediately with shit like Abyss, but at the same time the White Scars novels are all good and were stretch the whole length of the HH series.

>>96179441
That would be cool if they didn't have a track record of fucking up infantry refreshes.

>>96179441
>new 10 man sisters unit, builds either melee sisters or snipers
>also they increased the bust size
A MAN CAN DREAD DAMMIT

I DONT EVEN PLAY SISTERS, I JUST NEED 20 FOR MY CHAOS WARRIORS

>>96179227
Multipass

>>96179456
I own 60 of the old Mk3 and I prefer the new one desu. Even the upgrade kits for guys like Templar Brethren required you to find arms for their power swords that weren't in either kit, which was a huge pain in the ass.
At least with the new system I can give everyone a power sword arm with one plastic upgrade kit instead of having to go to Chang or drop hundreds on resin assault squads I don't need.

>>96179442
Thats not really a good answer, what book from what book onward do you consider it to have gone to shit.
>>96179453
This i can accept as a good answer.
I personally think the first like 5 books are incredible solid.

IMO so far, HH series i feel has 2 Eras to it.
The first Era which is generally considered good content all around. Personally i say that era is from horus rising to somewhere around prospero burns where most books feel really good.
Second era s the era of hit or miss, with some really good gems in the series like Angels Exterminators, The Vulkan series, and then you hit shit that is just fucking awful like Pythos. and Angels of Caliban.

Currently im going through Corax Nevermore so i cant give a full overview of everything.

>>96179447
I wish they would at least do one unit akin to the crusader squad black templars have; half'n'half custards and sisters to really sell the two halfs of one whole deal they should have going on.

>>96179463
I think you're horny
>>96179441
Now I'm horny too

>>96179511
>I think you're horny
Of course im horny, chaos warriors are like 50% spikes by volume.

>>96179483
>The first Era which is generally considered good content all around.
The hard part about that is some of the worst HH novels were there from the beginning.
Descent of Angels and Battle for the Abyss are books 6 and 8, respectively. Yet some of the gems of the whole series like Thousand Sons/Prospero Burns, The First Heretic and Know No Fear came years later.

Also I said (Josh) Reynolds but I meant Aaron Dembski-Bowden. My bad.

Actually speaking of ADB, I would say that Master of Mankind was when the general consensus turned against the BL HH series. And it was specifically because of Master of Mankind being filled with pseudo-retcons. The fucker did that to the Grey Knights too in the Emperor's Gift which also pissed me off.

Having been there since the beginning, I think the Siege of Terra books were an improvement in quality over what we had been getting for years. It really did NOT have to be 10 fucking books, but books like the Solar War, Saturnine and Warhawk were all pretty important in terms of wrapping up characters.

The End and the Death could absolutely have been brought down to 1 book, but I do appreciate that it stuck the landing without completely shitting the bed and pulling any big twists out of its ass.

>>96179187 (OP)
What were the iron hands and even guard doing after Istvaan V? It sounds cool as fucking doing spec-ops against traitors

>>96179563
Mostly getting rekt piecemeal.

>>96179563
Winning every fight, but losing every engagement. RG adopted a bunch of shattered legionaries.

>>96179563
Iron Hands "only" lost their most elite company and their primarch, so they weren't nearly wiped out overall unlike the Salamanders and Raven Guard who suffered 94%~ losses on Isstvan V.

That being said, they absolutely went hog wild and turned into cyborg terrorists who did fun things like dropping a moon on traitor legion bases before/while dying horribly.

>>96179593
Fucking kek what books can I read about this in?

I dont care about duelling with Primarchs. But I do believe the base duelist (who wants to be there) will be a WS6 character with a thunder hammer. Now it's just a matter of seeing if it is a Paragon Centurion, or what kind of Praetor it is

Can I use 40k custodes models in 30k

>>96179601
Black Book #2 "Massacre" for general Iron Hands goodness, the new Isstvan V Dropsite Massacre journal goes into more detail about it too.

>>96179563
IH basically fragmented into cells that all waged war in their own way. The Iron Fathers on Medusa were one power center, Shadrak Meduson was another. Most IH aligned with one or the other. Many Iron Fathers also went on to force open the Vaults of Mimir, caches of forbidden technology accrued by Ferrus Manus through the course of the Great Crusade.

Lastly a number of IH went in a very different direction and decided to declare for Horus, recalling the favor he'd showed their legion in the past, and seeing in Ferrus Manus's defeat that the traitors had proven themselves mightier and therefore more worthy of the IH allegiance.

>>96179593
>so they weren't nearly wiped out overall
they still lost like 85% of the legion is just that sallys and rg got raped even worse

>>96179604
I think the generic duellist is going to be a paragon of battle champion at WS7 (kinda depends if we get jump pack/bike versions in legacies), otherwise it'll be a WS6 master sergeant unit leader.

>>96179601
>>96179635
Isnt moon man from hh6

>>96179655
Nta but ye.

>>96179648
Not at the drop site itself

are GW releasing epubs of the books?

>>96179654
>the generic duellist is going to be a paragon of battle champion at WS7
If champions get their wargear back, yeah. I don't trust Paragon blades now

>>96179669
No.

>>96179482
Because the fw kits are designed for the fw base models, not the plastic tacticals anon.

>>96179666
Yo Satan post the rest of that there journal

>>96179689
The base resin Mk3 didn't come with sword arms either.

>>96179666
wtf, roughly only 10,000+ iron hands? did they get raped before the drop site?

>>96179696
All the rules in it are in the libers pdf.

>>96179666
pretty sure the black books said differently

I was unable to acquire a Liber Questoris today. I am sorry, Anons. Perhaps another chivalrous Anon will swoop in.

>>96179482
>The base resin Mk3 didn't come with sword arms either.
The despoiler one did and the mk3 power weapons set did as well.

>>96179705
The Emperor's Children crippled the IH fleet while it was on its way to Isstvan, leaving the majority of ships unable to make the rest of the journey. So Ferrus took his most elite units with him, everyone else stayed behind (and then got wrekt later by the traitor fleet)

>>96179729
did you aquire any books?

>>96179187 (OP)
I bought the launch box, only because it was $200.

>>96179733
Which is great and all, but they sold the templar kit along with the Mk3 kit since Prospero, and every time someone talks about how great the old Mk3 plastic kit was I remember that GW wanted to add another $125 to the price tag if that unit was using melee weapons.

Anyone have a lead on Assault Marines in mk IV?

>looking at custodes
>if your opponent goes first you probably have to control each objective and stop your opponent from scoring any turn other than first to have a chance at tying primary
>if custodes go first they have a good chance since they can camp objectives
>rules are kinda ridiculous to balance not having any non vanguard units that can control objectives
>custodes armies are a coin flip if they have a real chance to win primary
>custodes as allies have units based around not being able to score
They did it, Custodes are almost certainly worse to play with / against than last edition!

>>96179749
I mean 3rd party, not the old FW ones

>>96179738
BRB And Liber Hereticus

>>96179755
dw they are going to drop a female custodes model and we will never see anybody play custodes again

>>96179187 (OP)
So every legion on Istvaan V was fucked almost beyond repair?

>>96179766
>female custodes
No wonder they're so incapable now

>>96179766
Depends how hot they make her.

>>96179766
Nah, she'll be able to topple Primarchs

>>96179705
Yes and no. Their fleet was battered by the Emperor's Children after Fulgrim failed to turn Ferrus Manus before the Drop Site Massacre. When the call came from Terra to bring the hammer down on Horus & Co, instead of waiting for the whole fleet to finish repairs, Ferrus packed his most elite legionaries on his swiftest ships and sped straight to Isstvan where he deployed them in the first wave.

Surprisingly this didn't go terrible. His dudes were managing a 1:1 kill/death ratio for the first little while. That's really good when doing frontal assaults against a technologically equal and logistically and numerically superior enemy who's had time to entrench. And because he didn't wait to get all his ducks in a row before engaging, the traitors had to wait to spring their trap and were bled worse than they would have been if Ferrus hadn't gone ape mad. Obviously things went to shit with the second wave, but when the turn came the majority of the legion had yet to descend from their ships, so they were the best situated to escape once the battle planetside was lost.

Basically sometimes it's a strategically advantageous to do something a little retarded.

>>96179788
If there's female custodes, are there male brothers of silence?

I know the rubric marine armor is MK IV, but is the Exalted Sorcerer kit also in MK IV?

>>96179415
Always and never
It's shit whenever an author decides that traitors MUST lose in a specific story no matter what the fluff says about it
Ie: Nemesis
A force of assassins is sent to kill Horus
Cool concept right? Obviously they fail at the end but that's still a cool story
Well ackshuyally they give up trying to kill him at the end of the book to go on a sidequest so they can still win
There's calth where in the old lore, the ultramarines got their shit kicked but managed to hold the underground
Now the books say that they managed to inflict more damage to the traitors than they suffered
The siege is the biggest example of course, they keep making up shit to make any traitor victory barely be one and you wonder how we're supposed to think they're a threat

>>96179755
Vanguard units can still score, its just only 1 point (as opposed to two normally for most objectives) and no extra points (like for line).

Custodes can absolutely still win on their own, but they act best as an elite allied force to an army that can do the boring things like "sitting on points" while they go fistfight those enemy justaerin.

>>96179841
No.

>>96179441
>Heresy segment at the next event
>"Well everyone, we have something for a long neglected aspect of the talons"
>Tagline appears: "Time to let the girls have some fun"
>Show a silhouette of a female head with a top knot
>It's a female shield captain

Heavy Disintigrators are just better Disitigrator blasters for +5 points? Thats lame.

>>96179865
If a tactical marine holds a 2 value objective for 1 turn, the best you can do is tie. If it's 3, you lose. Objectives are plain and simply losing for Custodes.

>>96179897
>If a tactical marine holds a 2 value objective for 1 turn
They get 4 points. The same as what custodes get if they sweep any squad off an objective.

>>96179441
They're just going to make new custodes kits so they are no longer compatible between Heresy and 40k

>>96179755
No way. Custodes are PROTECTORS, how can it be they don't have at least some unit with Line 3 or something

>>96179856
That is correct

>>96179911
Appreciate it

>>96179541
Thats why i was saying its MAJORITY good in the first era which i pin somewhere around prospero burns. LIke there are way more good books then their are duds and the duds are duds because they are just boring books.

The second era is full of LOTS of swingy content, some really good, and some mind-numbingly bad. Angel of Caliban and Pythos come to mind for the bad ones.

>>96179666
>170k traitor casualties
>9,266IH/80,443.6SA/74,275.8RG (163,985.4 total loyalist casualties)
>loyalists got bushwhacked by an equally sized or larger force while assaulting a near-equal force dug into a heavily fortified mountain
>still took fewer casualties

what the fuck I thought Horus was a master tactician

>>96179922
He is but assumes others will act compitently and not rush in headlong in a blind rage, like Angron and Ferrus

>>96179901
The issue is scoring vanguard in melee is your opponent's choice whether or not they want to let you.

>>96179905
That would be broken. I just they had one infantry unit without vanguard.

>>96179922
GW bad at numbers, news at 11

>>96179905
I fully expected the guards to be vanguard and the sentinels to be line

How well do oldscale arms fit on nuscale bodies

>>96179905
>Custodes are PROTECTORS
Of the emperor and golden throne only. So "not when they take the field"

If some custodes are showing up to do battle it isnt because they want to hold some objective, its because that guy over there has pissed off someone he shouldnt have and needs to die.

>>96179973
>By His will, this area is to be secured. It shall not fall to any enemy
>>96179942
Okay maybe just Line 2

>>96179956
Is this ashen circle?

>>96179904
oh I'm sure Custodes will get new 30k-exclusive stuff too. But there will be a lot of Sisters on the board, guaranteed.

so how shit are the Talon rules? is the .pdf quality better or worse than the slop we got in 2.0?

>>96179666
GW numbers are always bullshit

>>96179841
There are female Culexus. I don't know who decides whether a blank girl should go to Culexus or to the SoS.
I also don't know where male blanks went before Culexus school opened during the heresy, and it's not like all blank kids were killed, as there wouldn't be make Culexus otherwise.
It's a big fat mess.

>>96179278
Pic related will apparently have rules for the termies in the OP pic.

>The book is brimming with the lore behind some as-yet unexplored events in the Horus Heresy: the Saturnine Renewal, the War of Bitter Iron between the Word Bearers and Iron Hands, and the Kolarne-Distal incident in which the White Scars and Thousand Sons turned on each other.

>This is a must-read supplement for every fan of the lore of The Horus Heresy – and that’s all before we get to the rules content: three asymmetrical Onslaught Missions, two new Legiones Astartes Detachments, and new profiles for a Saturnine Command Squad, a Centurion in Saturnine Armour and, for the Word Bearers, the Phraetus Anointed Conclave (see below). There is also an Arcana Upgrade for a Thousand Sons unit clad in Saturnine Armour.

Kinda stoked for the War of Bitter Iron fluff. It was mentioned in Siege of Cthonia and it sounded rad.

>>96180051
Culexus grab blanks but also clone them, so they have a few females
They were a thing before the heresy

>>96179984
I think there's a reason they haven't really given out line to termies (just crimson paladins and lernean.)

>>96180060
Why would you be excited its going to be awful writing

>>96179766
I hope they make her stronger than Valdor & most primarchs.

>>96179956
The magic of pauldrons means they all fit pretty fine as long as one isn't too much bigger than the other.

>>96180070
I like hearing about IH and WB doing awful things and having awful things done to them. And from the sound of it that's largely what the Bitter War is about.

New to Heresy how's this list look?

Forlorn - traitor sons-of-horus
Target Points: 3000

Crusade (sons-of-horus)
- Praetor - Power Maul/Banestrike Bolter 135
- Legion Champion [Paragon of Battle] Volkite Serpenta and Melta Bombs- 110
- Optae - Carsoan Power Axe and Banestrike Bolter 120
- Tactical Squad [Logisitcal Benefit] - 100
- Drop Pod - 50
- Rhino - 60
- Deredeo Dreadnought - Plasma Canonade 205
Detachment Points: 780

Supremacy Cadre (sons-of-horus)
- Despoiler Squad [Logisitcal Benefit] - 200
- Despoiler Squad [Combat Veterans] - 200
- Reaver Attack Squad - 245
- Justaerin Terminator Squad - 275
- Reaver Attack Squad - 245
Detachment Points: 1165

Armoured Support (sons-of-horus)
- Sicaran - 160
- Sicaran - 160
Detachment Points: 320

Army Vanguard (sons-of-horus)
- Veteran Tactical Squad [Master Sergeant] - Volkite Chargers/Chainswords 210
- Veteran Tactical Squad - Banestrike Bolers/Power Swords 210
- Justaerin Terminator Squad - 275
Detachment Points: 695

Total Army Points: 2960

>>96179922
it says Isstvan System Campaign, probably include isstvan 3 as well

>>96180096
Kys waacfag

>>96180067
>Crimson Paladins are line
How dare they steal Lernean's gig

>>96180026
Havent seen a female faction that fucked since Witch Hunters.

>>96180096
looks slow?

>>96179863
>There's calth where in the old lore, the ultramarines got their shit kicked
Nah, in the old fluff the Ultramarines completed dominated. New fluff is the only Word Bearers harmed in the filming of the movie be riff-raff that Lorgar wanted dead anyway.

Does the lord of war knight slot give them one of the ranks, or is that full knights only?

>>96180165
Iirc they got beat during the shadow crusade but calth itself was supposed to be an overwhelming word bearers victory

>>96179931
If they don’t stand in the objective for you to score points off of then it comes down to secondaries, which are mostly related to killing anyway.

>>96179956
They are fine. Arms are not a consistent length even on same scale miniatures. It's not noticeable on single handed weapons

>>96180111
They got line last edition too, it was just through a RoW

>>96180026
Custards are looking good. Sisters got gutted and are not really an army anymore.

>All these shitposters pretending they actually converted a single SoS model
Loving every laugh.

>>96180190
The issue is they only have to sit one turn on objective to tie / outscore you, anon.

>>96180026
SoS are fucked but no matter what doomposters say, I fully expect new units to be released for them.
Custards look weird to play due to nobody having Line (X), but I found the overall balance better than the shitfest it was in 2.0.
>Guards need to charge to compete with elite Terminators
>Venatari aren't stupidly overpriced anymore
>Aquilons are still slow but hit like trucks so you actually want them to deal with enemy elites
>Sagittarum are still meh, but only cost 40pts
>Melee Dreadnoughts are extremely dangerous due to a shitload of Attacks, Critical Hit (6+) on the charge and in-built Eternal Warrior (1)
>Telemon with guns is a decent option, though a risky one as you don't want to get tied
>Pallas took a nerf, the Caladius is fine

>>96179666
>traitors lost more than loyalists
>word bearers, night lords, iron warriors and alpha legion casualties not listed
>if similar to the casualties of other legions could imply each loyalist marine during the ambush killed roughly 3 traitors each
who the fuck wrote this? I'm not even a traitor simp but the battle is literally called the drop site massacre yet here it's just another normal sounding battle with equal casualties despite the massive advantage the traitors had

>>96180080
It's IH fluff by nuHeresy writers, of course it won't be good. It'll be the IH being retarded and getting their asses beat for 95% of the plot and then some suefaggot from another legion, almost certainly Raven Guard again, will come along to lecture them on the real meaning of tactics and everything he says will immediately be proven 100% right.

At this point they might as well just open any piece of IH fluff with the IRL author writing an intro that amounts to
>You faggots still sticking with these losers huh? What do we have to do to get rid of you twats?

>>96179701
Yes it did?

Despoiler set anon, not the tactical set.

Command Rhino is too expensive. Costs twice as much as a normal Rhino and carries half.
Yes I know that its main benefit is it unlocks another detachment because it is Command, and that it has the same Command Vox relay the MoS has.
But for twice the points it could at least carry 12 people.

>>96180276
it was one of the worst units in 2.0, so its only tradition that its bad in 3.0

>>96180247
Transport is good too.
Guard probably do good vs hammer terminators but don't do well vs pf terminators, especially ws5 ones.

>You get 2 reactions whether you are playing 1500 or 3000 pts
Wait, why were we playing 3000 pts to begin with? Why not 2k or 2500?

>>96180310
anon 3k is the standard size hh game.

>>96180314
But why? I'm not planning to bring a Primarch either

>>96180350
Room to bring a lot of cool things.

>>96180350
Why does 40k play at 2k?
HH is intended to be played at higher points
Nothing stops you from playing at lower points my man

>>96180310
>>96180350
Because it's cool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d65LWJDXnx8

Pardo privated his "Haters were wrong" video.
Kek

>>96180415
Reminder

I'm still confused why people thought SoS would keep all 20 units from 2.0 with range that have a single squad in plastic and few resin heroes (heroines?). Or why SoS player would try to build 3K army with that one kit.

Wait for the update.

>>96180472
SoS were basically militia lol. All rules, no models.

>>96180472
I'm just mad custodes kinda halfway get to play the game and box loadouts aren't legal.

Guess those single-HQ lists are a thing of the past. I bet it's going to be a Praetor, a Centurion and a Consul

>>96180509
Almost never saw single HQ armylists anyway. The only person regularly doing that was me, everybody else was always complaining about not having enough HQ slots for all the consuls they wanna bring.

>>96180509
A lot of the consul abilities feel so important, I feel like I'll just end up on 2-3 consuls most games.

>>96180350
Because shit dies faster in HH so you need more shit on the field.

You actually don't need to bring any HQ now. It would restrict you, but I'm pretty sure if you fill Lords of War and allied detachment it can be done even at 3K point level.

>>96180597
No it doesn't, in 40k a unit is bad if it can't kill more than it's points in one turn, in HH a unit that could would be considered OP.

>>96180605
At 3k points you can also bring a retinue and heavy transport in the warlord detachment. With the right logistical benefit it might even be a functional army.

Is there any community accepted patch/errata of 2.0? 3.0 looks like a disaster. Someone just needs to fix the handful of problems with 2.0 (reactions, brutal, dreadnoughts, UP ordnance/blasts namely)

>>96180509
I'm going to be honest chief in every list I've built I fit in everything in like 2-3 detachments, max 4, and one of those is an apex usually. I end up with a more detachment or command slots than I ever need even with a Consul.

>>96180621
You can't take a warlord detachment without a Paragon model.

Newfag to Horus heresy tabletop.

Is there a rules legal way to build a mix legion force? Like if I wanted to play a army with loyalist elements from traitor legions? Like a squad of world eaters here, a imperial fist tank there, some blood angels assault troops here, emperor's children artillery, etc.

Obviously you wouldn't just get access to all of the best rules and equipment from each legion but is there a way to replicate some of the unique rules that a unit would get from their legion?

Does that make sense? I don't know enough about the game to use the right verbage.

It's less about winning and just kinda creating a narrative army to bring to a table (plus I kinda hate painting mono armies).

Or is this one of those things where you paint stuff up like I said earlier and you just go "yeah this is a mix of legions paint wise but really I'm just gonna run them like fists"

>>96180509
Single HQ lists aren’t even that bad with this setup. Go for a single centurion to get two detachments, something like armored fist and armored support. You can easily spend all of your points this way, get four large line units and deny the opponent the ability to score slay the warlord or giant slayer because you have no high command, primarchs or superheavies

>>96180639
50% of your army can be allies, and you can take any number of allied detachments. Each allied detachment has two commsnd slots, which it can use to bring along some auxiliary detachments of that Faction, so you can sprinkle in tanks, support squads, Dreadnoughts etc from that.

>>96180635
The paragon is valdor / primarchs. Not high command / command.

A Master of Signals' Line/Vanguard rule would be pointless on a Support unit, wouldn't it?

>>96180624
Outer circle is almost done with his and from what I've seen here and on forums, it'll pretty much be the default way to play
Even more than 3.0

>>96180626
Just what's your list that a single consul is enough, anon? I'd really like to see

>>96180662
Oh damn that actually sounds kinda cool.

How does the community react to it? Will they think you're being some sort of meta chaser by mix matching or do people do this stuff kind of often?

>>96180692
lol I don't want a new edition from an autist with a vengeance. Just a community errata-ed 2.0

>>96180662
Damn, my Vorax might come out to play this edition

>>96180710
>Just a community errata-ed 2.0
Does 2.0 genuinely need any other changes than making brutal occur after saving rolls instead of after wounds?

>>96180757
Make any return fire snap shots.
Let vehicles return fire.
Do something with dreads (they become vehicles again).

>paragon of battle shield captain, adrasite spear
>1x3 aquilon, fist + adraithic
>1x3 bikers, las-pulsar
I think this shall be my custodes allied contingent. Anti vehicle bikes, and the aquilon + captain should do well against other elite termies and characters.

>>96180757
Other then the mentioned brutal change which i agree with, me personally?
>use the 3.0 blast rules
>Use the 3.0 Vehicle rules as a base to adapt to 2.0
>give axes a rule that swings at init -1 not unweildly.
>Remove Line from Suzarian and from Warders
>Rework of psyker powers
>Possible point increase for las canons
>Give melta something to make them better at close range against vehicles like something maybe with in melta rage you count the armor as -1 or -2
>Increase the point cost of the dread Gravis melta to 15 points
>Only able to react with a unit once per turn
>Heavy weapons snap shot on reactions unless they can normally move and shoot
>Rapiers can return fire and over watch from the front arc (This is a personal one)
>Update the WS chart so that 5 hits 4 on a 3+ but a 4 hits a 5 on a 4+
Thats just a few changes off the top of my head that would monumentally fix 2.0

>>96180765
>Dreads
DESU, as painful as it might sound, they should be WS4 and they need to get rid of the "They cant be ID" its to fucking powerful.

>>96180757
multiple reactions and interceptors from single units - i.e. lascannons HSS being able to fire multiple times

>>96180624
Have a look at the Mournival Rules - bunch of downunder lads who run events and post their houserules on their FB page so anyone else who fancies it can use them. They're a bit more circumspect than the Pantroonicon discord loons.

Look back a version or two though, they gutted a lot of options in their most recent update for some reason.

>>96180800
So you're demanding fixes for hypothetically possible but in practice purely fictional scenarios that live rent-free in the minds of nogaems?

>>96180828
>hypothetically possible but in practice purely fictional scenarios that live rent-free in the minds of nogaems?
What? This fucking happens ALL the time.

Did Ixion Hale ever do anything?

>>96180757
>1.0 deepstrike with charges
>Lascannons lose sunder
>Unit can only react once a turn
>A unit can only trigger one reaction for any eligible trigger
>3.0 Blast
>Only double melee or double gun dreads get WS/BS5 respectively
>Delete free intercept from scanners
Alternatively, play 3.0 with 2.0 Libers.

>>96180843
>Only double melee or double gun dreads get WS/BS5 respectively
Damn dude i actually really fucking like this idea. This is really good. Stealing teh fuck outta this.

>>96180789
should be WS4 and I3. Even if they are veterans and company heroes they are half dead in a massive clunky piece of armour

>>96180765
>Make any return fire snap shots.
I always find it funny how anons will argue for alternating activations but then want to tune back anything that leans in that direction (although I suppose these are different anons).
How would you feel if instead it was any model which was heavy but didn't have the relentless rule snap shot during reactions?
HSS were obviously the main abuser of reactions. This would tune them back lots and let most other things keep doing their cool things. You would then still have the rare few units like veterans being able to return fire with 2 heavy weapons at their BS, which is hardly as spamable.

>>96180811
Oh I know they did a great job with HH1.0 but haven't seen their work with 2.0. Thanks!

>>96180828
lol righto chief

>>96180843
>>3.0 Blast
>>96180782
>>use the 3.0 blast rules
Ok I'll bite. What makes 3.0 blast rules better than 2.0?

>>96180863
So current blast rules are scatter 2d6
3.0 rules are you roll to hit bas on your BS, if you miss then you scatter 1d6 but no minus from your BS.

This actually make small blast templates good, because on the 2d6 system you actually statistically miss the intended target more then you hit it if you have BS4.

>>96180855
Reactions and alternating activations have nothing to do with each other. AA would be your unit fires once in a game turn, current reactions is your unit fires up to 4 times in a game turn.
All reaction fire are snap shots.

>>96180782
Literally more than half of what you just said is in 3.0
Now you're just not playing it because you want to feel superior

>>96180889
I dont hide the fact i think SOME things in 3.0 are really good, and needed, that doesn ot mean i like all of 3.0

For example, damage system in 3.0 is shit, loss of special rules like ID and torret is shit, heavy being able to move and shoot with out penalty across the board is shit.
I can pick out the things i think that are good in a system and leave the bad. Just like in 2.0 and 1.0.

2.0 reaction system was bad, it was way to strong and easy to abuse. las canons were fucking broken and needed to be fixed, outriders were dog shit in 2.0, TSS were over cost.

1.0 Had horrible template spam, Cerimite armor was on like everything making melta worthless. WAY to much AP 2 and 3 in large and massive templates that made anything on foot SOL.

I dont have to like everything about an edition, nor does picking out what each edition did right mean i like it.

>>96180872
You mean 2.0 was 2d6 minus BS, right. And now it's 1d6 no minus, should the BS hit test fail. But if the scatter dice rolls a Hit, then you also score a hit too, right?

>>96180907
the move and shoot in 3.0 is horrible.

That with the terrain rules, and the death of both th force org and the unit customisation gives me no interest in 3.0

3.0 has made every legion bland (bar TS - well done TS)

>>96180907
Not gonna lie, the way damage works now makes me want to bring Instant Death back lmao.
I mean look at terminators. They're T5 now. Even power fists would no longer kill them (though they'd kill artificer characters)

>>96180837
He fukken DIED.
Probably.

>>96180926
You're telling me you don't enjoy moving with heavy weapons and charging like it was 40k 10th edition? :^)

>>96179368
Compulsory chaplain represents that, you idiot. Praetors and other line officers are only in charge of the actual combat ops, not the legion overall.

I don't trust Arquitors. Why do you like them, anons?

>>96180921
So we know how scatter works in 2.0 so we can skip that in 3.0 it works like this

Lets say i have a plasma canon on a BS 4 marine.
I wanna shoot something
I pick my target with teh template
I roll a to hit dice, like i was firing any other weapon, if i roll a 3+ i hit.
If i miss, i roll a d6 scatter at full 1d6.

This is monumentally better then the current system. Because its faster and your more likely to hit your intended target based on your BS, were as in 2.0, with a small template, you dont hit your target on average until your BS5.
>>96180926
>the move and shoot in 3.0 is horrible.
100% yes, its fucking bad and idk why they thought it was a good idea.
>That with the terrain rules
Another hting i HATE about 3.0
>FOC
Its a mixed bag for me, i hate they got rid of it, but i like how much easier it is to bring in allies so i both like and dont like it.
>3.0 has made every legion bland
Correct and thats more on the liber then the Core rules but the point is still correct.
>>96180937
Damage is just a bad fucking system the only reaosn its not a shit show in 3.0 is because GW was at least smart enough to not bring in the rending AP system.

>>96180960
Wdym rending system? Breaching is still there. Rending was a problem for, like, rending 4 falxes wounding dreadnoughts, but it was okay elsewhere.
Though I didn't like it on autocannons. I am GLAD AV14 is immune to them. They were too good last edition.

>>96180998
Rending system as in
My bolter is ap -1
My melta gun is ap -4
A system that rends your armor not all or nothing.

>>96181002
Ah, the modifiers. It's so easy to lose restraint and fuck the entire system.
>>96180680
No. Line would be pointless, but Vanguard would still work on a Support X unit, because Vanguard works by pushing people off objectives, while Support simply restricts your VP from the objectives themselves.
Tyrants are Support 1, which would cancel Line 1. But would benefit from Vanguard 1 if they charge up the hill

>>96180958
I think the Morbus bombard is weak and stupid without Phosphex. But the Graviton charge cannon is alright. Same S9, but AP3 D2 with Pinning 3.
The Morbus isn't even trying. It really could be D2 and Heavy (D) if you think 4D would be excessive.

>>96181070
>D2 and Heavy (D) if you think 4D would be excessive.
Ordinance(D) but yeah i know what you meant anon.

>>96181002
the reason modifiers never work in 40k is D6 is a shitty obsolete dice system.
The difference between 2+ and 3+ is taking 100% more damage.
When you use +1/-1 modifiers on a d6, the results are uncontrollably large.
But the designers need something to sell their audience, if you say bolters are AP0, but thousand son bolters are AP1, suddenly that's "ooooh AP1", but you've instantly fucked the entire game over.
I played Infinity which used D20s, so if you're saving on 12+ or 11+ instead of 10+, it was an increase in damage instead of dealing +100% more damage. They also had better armor mechanics than 40k, the armor-piercing ammunition in infinity halves armor saves, so against an armor 2 model it's only removing 1 point but against some armor 14 mech it's taking 7 points of armor off. This is aspect is missing from all 30k/40k weapons, as having AP2 is great whether the enemy is 2+ or 3+ or 4+ armor. Thus they're forced to make AP2 weapons so rare (they're too absolutely universal)

I don't expect GW to ever switch to a better system, they're allergic to all improvements of the game. It just gets worse each year, rather than better. And if it was better balanced where each unit stayed equally-powerful, there'd be less profits for GW in churn of 'accidentally' giving a unit 1 too much AP in this edition, then taking it away and giving it to another unit next edition so that unit does +100% damage.

>>96181096
>the reason modifiers never work in 40k is D6 is a shitty obsolete dice system.
Disagree the reason it never works is because its a primarily Ranged based game. The modification system works completely fine in TOW which is a majority melee based game.

It does not work when your apply modifiers to things that are trying to get in range themselves .

>>96180948
30k is now even sillier and more casual than 40k.
You can sprint full speed towards a unit of bloodletters, while firing your missile launcher backwards over your shoulder at a tank 40" behind your back despite you charging the bloodletters.

>>96181117
I get you mean AP modifiers on melee weapons would be the reward for having closed the distance...but regular knives having AP-1 felt ridiculous against terminators
GW has since removed many of the surplus AP, boosted termies to always have a 4++, and made shields grant +1W instead. This after the rampant AP made them give regular eldar aspect warriors a 5++

>>96181138
You can do that in 40k since 8th

>>96181146
Nope. You're not allowed to shoot a different unit than the one you charge in 40k, unlike nu30k.

>>96181138
>Mfw they took the Forget from "Fire and FORGET" to heart

>>96181149
No they definitely got rid of shoot what you charge in 8th

>>96181096
Agreed D6 is shit
If anyone from GW is listening please switch everything to d10
You'll also be able to force players to throw away all their dice and buy your brand new ones, like you did with your retarded new gaming mats

>>96181141
Dont misunderstand, i dont want the modification AP system anywhere near HH.
The only system i ever heard that was peaked my interest for a bit was the idea of
If the AP value is higher then the save, you get a armor save
If the AP is lower then the armor save you dont get a save
But if the AP value is equal to the armor save, you get a -1 to your armor save.
THAT i thought was mildly interesting.

>>96181166
Workshops will 100% use such a system as a gateway to 40k AP and you fucking know it

>Shred 6, Armourbane
:)
>-1A
I think terminator chainfists suck and are irredeemable

>>96181173
Oh i 100% know they will, like i said, i think its interesting, does not mean i wanna see it officially

>>96181174
They have a niche because fists can only glance AV14 and THs can't damage it at all

>>96181173
>>96181166
Wouldn't it be easier to combine all-or-nothing with the modifier system?
Something like AP4/-1 where it ignores 4+ saves, but when it doesn't, it reduces the save by 1.
So, a kraken adamantine shell would pierce carapace, but would degrade a 2+ into a 3+ save

>>96181157
Wow, seems you're right. They really dumbed all GW games down so people with the IQ of 10 year olds won't have to deal with a single tactical thought just run forward toward circle and spray.

>>96181187
Easier? no, possible? yes
Possible for GW?
FUUUUUUUCK no.

>>96181181
S8 fists can only glance AV14. I mean, so does Melta, no? Seems you're better off leaving the antitank to the lascannon bearers

>>96181191
Its because from 8th onward, really like half way through 7th and arguable the start of 7th, the game went from being a wargame to being a board game about war.

>>96181187
that would be better than how GW is trying to half-ass the same thing with Breaching5+ breaching6+. So unlikely.

>>96180100
"post-action estimates based on survivor accounts"

>>96181196
>I mean, so does Melta, no?
No because nearly every melta weapon has armourbane or a higher S

>Seems you're better off leaving the antitank to the lascannon bearers
Kind of a trap option in 3.0

>>96181196
Wait, are Land Raiders immune to Melta? AGAIN?

>>96181198
>breaching
DESU i think breaching was and is a good idea, but GW needs to not be affraid to use multiple variable, the breaching rule SHOULD be:
Breaching(x/y): When rolling to wound if a weapon with this rule rolls a value of x or greater when attempting to wound, improve the AP value of that wound to Y.
Then we could see shit like Chain swords could be Breaching 6/3

>>96181196
The issue is more that a spartan/kratos can drive up to your terminator death star and just start running them over and unless you have a chain fist or a primarch, they can't do anything about it

>>96181205
No, i dont think LR is immune to melta.
However, you need to watch out for falre shields, Flare shield are fucking insane in 3.0
Flare shield ignores armor bane.

>>96181205
No, they're pretty resistant but can be penned and if they are penned within half range, they only take two pens to kill

>>96181216
Flare shields have been taken off every astartes unit that used to have them, now it's only auxilia/mech/knights that get them and only really auxilia can spam them

>>96181204
>nearly every melta weapon has armourbane
Does Melta grant armourbane? Please say yes
>or a higher S
Won't be stationary at that range

>>96181227
IIRC yes melta grants armor bane

>>96181227
The melta blast gun on the kratos benefits from stable, so it's always getting Heavy (RS) unless it gets a status. The number in Melta (x) is the range at which melta goes off, so a kratos can be dumping 8 damage per shot at S9 from 24" + movement away.

Which you'll never do because the regular cannon is better anyway

>>96181227
>Does Melta grant armourbane? Please say yes
It does yes, within melta range.

>>96180472
>Wait for the update.
Ah, so we're already past "Wait for legacies."
There's no end. There's never a fail state. It's just endless cope.

>>96181285
I have never met a person with a full SoS army in my life.

>decide to run 8 tanks
>3 land raiders, 3 vindicators and 1 typhon takes only 2 paid detachments
>decide to take 8 dreadnoughts
>2 contemptors, 2 leviathans, 3 doritos and 1 saturnine
>takes 8 paid detachments
Why are dreadnoughts so hard to run now, are they 2.0 levels of broken?

>>96181299
No, they're pretty dull.

>>96181281
>>96181243
Oh okay. So close though. Bit of an allahu akbar gun. At that range, I wish penetrating hits inflicted a status oof

>>96181285
They said multiple times "this is a holdover list, the real one will be much more thought out"
I'm all for mocking faqcucks but come on

>>96181310
>>96181310
>Bit of an allahu akbar gun.
TO BEFAAAAAAIR that is kinda the point of a melta.

>>96181198
in the same aspect, it's so retarded how if the enemy is 1 higher WS than you and you have say Crit5+, every single hit you land is automatically a mega-crit that successfully breaches their armor and does mega-damage. There's suddenly no light wounds.

Warhammer fantasy was that way with Poison. My friend's skink arrows with Poison6+ auto-wounded even toughness 10 on 6+, but he could shoot twice for -1 to hit, and it was -1 to hit at max range. So he'd just sprint them at extreme range, shooting twice as many fishing for 6+s. It actively punished his models standing still or aiming at all.

In the same vein, Konrad Curze vs Lion you'd absolutely never ever Guard Up, because you don't want +1 WS. Instead you always Finishing Blow to keep to needing 5+ to hit because the only hits that matter are the Crit5+ which auto-wound and auto-shred and then Finishing takes to dmg4 to squeeze through 2 wounds per fail past Lion's eternal warrior.

HHh is extremely skewed towards rigged highroll-weighted dice. Many other wargames try to mix it up so some high are good and some low are good, but HH3 it's only really 5+ and 6+ since the over-reliance on crit5+, shred 5+, breaching5+, 5+ to wound, 5+ passing your armor saves fine, 5+ on initiative roll winning challenges, 5+ actually landing your charges. Only time you dont want to roll high is status test but even if you get a snapshot status, then a dice hitting 5-6+ a lot still hits just fine because their stupid weighted snap shot change.

Infinity, as a counterexample, rolling high to hit enemy is good, but you roll low underneath your armor save to save, so armor 15 is better than armor 5 (understandably). This punishes all the people with uneven bubbly chessex dice that roll above or below averages.

The majority aren't consciously using their cheat dice, they just consider the weighted dice "my lucky dice" because they've rolled consistently high. But HH3 makes a set of "lucky dice" entirely ruin every system

>>96181310
>At that range, I wish penetrating hits inflicted a status oof
Not entirely necessary when you can just kill it in a couple hits, but glances being more dangerous than pens until the last pen which kills the vehicle is an odd trait of 3.0

That being said, multi-meltas/combi-meltas on rhinos were no joke in 1.0/2.0 and remain a viable threat piece which makes your rhinos even harder to ignore, especially when a rhino sitting on an objective can potentially pop a predator/land raider in one go.

The other part about meltaguns that are nice is that custodes are T5 2W with eternal warrior (1), so S8 AP2 D3 will one shot them really easily. They don't even get 4++ saves that frequently anymore either.

>>96181299
dreads are bad now. Move slow, fragile, WS4 so they auto-lose all melees, half them are Heavy so they can't rush, overpay for most shooting damage. They might have some niche options like a certain type of grav cannon or something, but it's not the stuff where an 8 dreadnought list would work.

>>96181315
You want to roll low on leadership checks, because Routing is all 3 statuses combined + it makes you run away twice per round

>>96181348
don't need to take leadership tests when you roll high on killing everything and armor saves.

>>96181340
>rely on shitty expensive 12" guns to counter custodes
>move to 10" away, custodes unit reacts to Reposition and your melta gun loses the entire turn shooting
Custodes might still be fucked, their rules look rather limpdick from the few seconds I glanced at em.

>>96181354
You don't need to roll low on armor saves in infinity if you just roll crits every shot.

You brought up probably the WORST counter example, because in Infinity ALL attacks could bypass armor by rolling a critical, and you're rolling multiple dice per attack usually while only needing one to hit the target number (or better in some cases) to get a crit and auto win the contested roll.

>>96181314
A single or couple Meltas in a squad could do it, yeah. High risk high reward.
I don't think they could do it now. Need a full squad for it.

>>96181362
Nobody is taking TSS, most aren't even going to take HSS. Look at the other profiles.

>>96181340
A single multimelta was a big thread. I'm not sure I'd put one in a Rhino this time. It really could just bounce off the enemy, and S8 Armourbane at 8" just feels less powerful than S8+1d6 at 12" from 2.0

>>96181408
If you've already dumped your cargo on an objective, then everything else is probably going to come to you, and that means you can get that Heavy (RS) bonus.

If Custodes do get a plastic kit I hope it's a replacement for the stupid fucking 72$ a piece jetbike.

>>96181454
OOPS, DREADNOUGHT.

What did 2.0 do right?
What is 3.0 doing right?
What would you add to either?

>>96181524
>what is 3.0 doing right?
Saving my wallet. Have spent $0 on GW since HH3 dropped.

What's something unique to 1.0, that makes you want others to give it another chance? Besides no reactions, I assume

>>96181534
congrats you've spent $0 in the last 6 hours

>>96181537
Mechanicum being well designed.

>>96181524
>What did 2.0 do right?
Simplified a lot of stuff without dumbing it down, and rebalanced a lot of weapons stats and prices. 1.0's Breachers were extremely expensive
>What is 3.0 doing right?
Disordered charges from Rhinos. It really gives them new life
>What would you add to either?
Anon's double gun/double fist +1 BS/WS for dreadnoughts. 3.0 already gives dreads that use two melee weapons +1D, but I think that doesn't help it much against infantry units that could swarm it

>>96181524
>What did 2.0 do right?
Didn't fuck up everything.
>What is 3.0 doing right?
Made me want to start buying 1.0 and 2.0 books.
>>96181537
Army lists. There's so much stuff in my armies in 2.0 that's a bunch of proxies held together with bubblegum and faith that it's crazy.

>>96179227
Correct way to keep the fun in the game.

James really is sucking every last drop of life out of his company isn't he

>>96179227
i'm glad someone else was reminded of the mondoshawans.

>>96181634
>Games Workshop went from a registered trademark (®) into unregistered trademarks related to goods (™)
>the brand has become just a product

>>96181634
so they killed off the iconic goblin green base first, now the iconic yellow warhammer. What color can they kill off next?

So...about those WarCom showcase standards

>>96181723
It's meant to encourage people to give it a go but it looks like "Kat" didn't even try

>>96181723
You posted this exact same image 7 minutes ago in 40kg >>96181702

We've already discussed it.

>>96181723
Fuck off tourist this was a talking point last thread.
>"haha they look bad!"
Yes they look shit. yes we noticed. Yes they literally grabbed anyone in the office and were probably put there to encourage newer painters. No you aren't saying anything new or interesting.

>>96181723
thats painted by some make-a-wish-kid toddler with brain cancer, right?

>>96181739
>>96181738
I called him a tourist but wow it literally is the same person, same filename, same formatting. What a colossal (you) seeking faggot

>>96181739
>re probably put there to encourage newer painters
If I were to see that as a newbie I would hesitate to spend hundreds of dollars because I would worry my end product would also look that shit

>>96181723
this tranny's paintjob almost makes me want to replicate it without using a paintbrush. I think I could paint it twice the quality just using fingerpainting. I'd do it if the most of marines wasn't so ridiculous.

>>96181738
>>96181739
>retards who paint like the down syndrome warcom employee are big mad all of the sudden

>>96181743
it's painted by someone named "kat" which means either the DEI talentless-female hire or a tranny with mental illnesses, so basically brain cancer and the mind of a toddler, yes.

Is there a centralized location where I can download all of the black library pdfs for 0 shekels? Apparently there are 6 gorrilion books on the siege of terra alone.

>>96181772
having read all 60 of them, you're better off not reading a single black library novel. They are literally garbage.

>>96181723
probably more effort than what went into the libers

>>96181664
You skipped the red period that they killed shortly after goblin green.

>>96179187 (OP)
I am sorry they look too goofy and out of model, they look like 3rd party minis to play one page rules or some obscure indie game

>>96181789
true that. Bright red ork clothing. Crimson fist space marines. Bright red books. Bright red bolters. Then they switch to lifeless monotone Black Templars on colorful green bases. Modern 40k, colorless black templars on colorless black bases.

>>96181789
>>96181797

>>96181864
I got sick and tired of painting red as a World Eaters player but boy did it pop and look great on a goblin green table that we also used for high elves or dwarfs vs lizardmen/bretonnia.

>>96181664
…..The stores aren’t even “Games Workshop” anymore, it’s just ‘Warhammer’ in a generic font. I mean have you seen the new 40k logo? The fucking R is off, that’s not even mentioning the Marvel slop colors! Billion dollar company that can’t even get good FormattinG right. Metallica did it….in the fucking 80s! Some dude did that by hand…..and some of you guys expect them to respect your niche-ity(?) in their business?! “Oh it’ll get fixed in the XYZ” Get fucking real. Be glad you all got ignored for so long! Let the autists mathhammer the fuckin boring-ass challenges all they like, this new edition is lookin like a flop and God I hope it is cause Lord knows these greedy bongs deserve another. Especially by their grogiest group.

Just remember: if it wasn’t for the irate leaker (God Bless) you’d all be in the dark about the changes. Leaks are not inevitable, though many assume so

Vanguard (4) doesn't score more than 1 VP for killing an Expendable (1) unit... but they do get 4VP if they make them fall back off an objective, don't they?

Someone have the legions imperialis books? .. only able to find the core rulebook

>>96181979
Expendable is subtracted, if you have expendable (1) getting killed by a vanguard (4), they'd score 3.

Have you used heavy flamers on your land raider, anon? I feel its own disembarked troops are going to get in the way

>lgs had a midnight speed painting comp for 3e release
>almost 20 people there
>wound up placing and walked away with half a saturnine box
honestly surprised at the turnout
idk what to do with three terminators though

>>96182115
put them in your foreskin

Expendable (3.0)

>>96182115
assemble them, tear them to pieces, and use them as basing bits for a crater terrain piece that was hit by a S10 Ap2 pieplate

>>96179626
no, the 30k paint scheme is brighter

>>96182115
What do yo mean, 15 people on 4chan malding for 3 weeks isn't representative of the whole population?

>>96182115
Cool. What was your time?

>>96182115
So am I desu

Those new saturnine models look so bad. That praetors hammer especially

>>96181723
this is a case for the Golden Demon

>>96182026
I bought a second hand spartan that's got them and I'm wondering whether to keep them or not. Panic does sound pretty good

>>96182157
considering the national U.S.-wide webstores have sold almost zero copies, yes, that is objectively the situation with how dead horus heresy is now.

Saturnine Dreadnought is designed with magnetising in mind but what about Saturnine Termies? Are they any easy to magnetise? It seems that you only replace their forearms so only elbows require magnets to be placed there.

>>96182157
I feed on your raw unfiltered delusional cope like a warp entity

>>96182186
Who cares they look shit

>>96182186
you don't need to magnetise them, the plasma arms are the only viable ones. The stupid overload2 guns are entirely worthless removing all your overly expensive terminators just to do average damage.

>>96179415
probably about book 4 is where it became a 0/10 series.

>>96182203
The plasma blasters also do genuinely nothing.

>>96182203
Rules are temporary, GW can change things with a single errata posted during their lunch break.

>>96182168
it was 90 minutes to paint a random infantry model assigned to you
wish I had some photos but I was too tired at the end and the store wanted to hold onto the models to put in a display case for a while
wound up coming third since only one other person did any sort of blending
apparently they allowed airbrushes which seemed crazy to me and the only guy who brought one came second

>>96182213
even doing almost nothing is better than paying for models that do slightly mid only when destroying your own units

If I get the box, I'll just be ebaying the saturnines or converting them into melee command squads with 3rd party hammers.

>>96182218
things that never happened.jpeg.
Imaginary 20 person launch of a zero hype tiny niche side-game.
Store hosting Huge painting competition giving away piles of plastic models they have to pay GW for.
Store didn't take any photographs of any of them to post on facebook advertising the launch.
You need to try to make your stories believable.

>dox yourself or I won't believe you!
no and you're not getting a (you)

>>96182240
>models they have to pay GW for
Models they pay fraction of the cost for and they can put them under business expenses on their taxes.

>>96182240
>Imaginary 20 person launch of a zero hype tiny niche side-game.
NTA but is HH so dead in other regions for real? In my area it is more popular than 40k but that's due to zoomers gravitating towards slop licensed games (Crisis Protocol, Shatterpoint etc.) and OPR.

Building something for epic, but which legion would fit a pure drop pod assault Army ?

>>96182227
I'm gonna paint 3, leave 3 for command, but they'll probably just sit on shelves.

>>96182277
sons of horus and world eaters are easy choices
no clue about the rules though

>>96182178
wow zero copies sold that's impressive

>>96182272
they just charged a $10 entry fee for the competition, it's $155 from a distributor so they made a profit from 20 people for a box that probably wouldn't have sold

>>96182275
Heresy is the biggest at my LGS aswell but mostly because all the oldschool players have fled 40k since 8th

As we know, buying directly from GW is to be avoided at all times.
However, I still want some of the FW miniatures, but I don't want to support China and especially not Russia economically. Does anyone know of a third option?

I think I missed the part where it says how Templates fire snapshot. Can you help me?

>>96182326
They must love 3rd then given i its half way to 8th

>>96182327
Ukraine

3.0 starts today - you are actually going to play Horus Heresy and not just pretend to on a forum, right anon?

>>96182346
Any particular sellers you'd recommend? I don't mind waiting if the quality is at least FW or better.

>>96179187 (OP)
>Release day
>Wayland haven’t sent my shit

It’s so fucking over why are retailers like this

I have an old rhino, do I have to swap out the storm bolter for a combi bolter or what?

>>96182368
I'm hoping to give it a try; gotta do something with all my heresy models that are sitting there waiting to be painted and built

>>96181723
Thanks Blackrock ESG

>>96182403
No. If your opponent demands it though, swap out the opponent.

>>96182403
It's even worse than that, you need to give it two separate bolters now.

>>96182403
usually there's no point in doing that

if you or your usual gaming buddies are rivet-counting hyper-autists, I guess it might make a bit of sense, but otherwise I wouldn't bother.

>>96182368
I'm miles away from having a playable army, but hopefully. I have a tactical squad half painted, and have built a vigilator, one other tactical squad, a deredeo, a drop pod, and have a storm eagle mid assembly.

>>96182403
Just swap them, that's what the magnets you put there are for.

>Skirmish no longer grants +1 to cover
>Multi-meltas melta range went from 12" to 8"
>A meltabomb can no longer kill a vehicle
>Headhunters went from 3A in the charge to just 1
Lerneans are fine, I guess, but the rest of AL kinda got a nerf. They don't look to me as the winners of 3.0 changes

>>96182327
there is a fuckton of stl files around that look like scans of the models, no need to rely on someone on the other side of the world

>>96182368
I absolutely won't play 3.0 and I also don't pretend to not play 3.0

>>96182434
Dynat went from granting Scout/infiltrate to 3 infantry units and their dedicated transports (LRs), to granting infiltrate to only his unit, as long as they aren't bulky.

>>96182410
>>96182416
>>96182418
>>96182428
I think I have to swap them, just to be sure.

>>96182454
Yes, exchange the two bolters strapped together with another two bolters strapped together.

When are we expecting the Legacies document?

>>96182471
I'm guessing tuesday or wednesday.

>>96182471
June 27

>>96182368
have a 1250pt casual tournament in 2 weeks to try it out. But man if the new models didn't put me off, the death of creativity in the libers has absolutely flattened me.

>>96182469
I'm so confused right now

>>96182487
It's almost like the distinction between the two is artificial, purely to have separate rules for two armies.

>>96182471
I need to know if my two Achilles got raped or not

>>96182497
Ok I won't bother to swap it out then, thanks anon

>>96182486
I am a retarded faggot but I do quite like the new mk2.

>>96182505
New mkii is decent but all the saturnine models look third party bad. Not sure about your retardation but all the best

>>96182505
Heads too small, same five poses, ugly nu-bolters, backpacks too bulky aside, they are ok. Also still no bolt pistol for the sarge.

>>96182434
lernaens got a glow up, AL trait is now even better due to charging and melta range changes (but cant be used on vehicles anymore), the AL detachment is crazy good and you can get like 4 logistical benefits from 1 centurion and a tac squad in your primary detachment

how are iron warriors this ed? like from an interest perspective? are they still kind trapped in the "unless youre going to phosphex spam choose a different legion" or did they get a glow up with them being one of the poster boys this ed?

>>96182553
They ignore negative modifiers to stuff like supressed / pinned. But also fuck you mean phosphex spam only?

Can somebody post the legacy pdf from 2.0?

>>96182553
Siege tyrants look pretty mediocre for the points cost. Shrapnel bolters are gone. Iron warrior new passive is below-average effectiveness (not as bad as word bearers but still not good). Their rite of war detachment requires arquibus artillery tanks which I've never heard a single compliment about. Perturabo's gambit is useless dogshit and he's still one of the weakest primarchs in a fight (subpar WS7 instead of 8, wounds 6 instead of 7, gimphammer Dmg2 5+ crit in stead of Dmg 3 5+ crit in Ferrus Manus hands doing literally half damage much of the time, initiative 3 with hammer when ferrus and vulkan stay initiative 5 with their hammers. Weakest primarch in-game probably atm)

Upsides, if you're playing shooty, this is a completely shooty edition so if your friends try to play melee blood angels and shit, you're still more competitive than any melee faction long as you don't try to primarch duel.

As always, the pay-to-win 20+ journal DLCs system could spontaneously turn IW into game-breaking overpowered even if right now they're just a C+ grade legion.

Iron hands, should i paint them black or dark metallic? .. mostly for epic

>>96182553
and if you mean on the hobby side, the starter box is just basically a Salamanders box, they just randomly had to paint half as iron warriors, but nobody gives a fuck about one stationary turret. It's a salamanders dreadnought and salamanders terminators and salamander terminator lord box.

>>96182617
>the mark 2 marines and shooty terminators don't work well for IW
Okay retard

>>96182617
nta, but the mk2 minis are Iron Hands.

I suspect they all were designed during for a HH2 Shattered Legions force in Beta Garmon.

>>96182601
pretty much exactly what i was looking for thanks anon, ill still be doing them cause theyre my favorite legion but was hoping they might have gotten a bit of love this ed

>>96180509

I'm going to repurpose one of my old, 3d printed NL Saturnines I got from Etsy into a Praetor with Hammer, Fist and Plasma Blaster. Then use him to take Army Vanguard... then I decide that my Nemesis Bolter Vets are now Seekers, Apart from the guy with the Missile Launcher, and my Recons are... Normal Vets with Bolters...??? I guess??? I need some Line I suppose.

Then I take a Vigilator, a Moritat who's jump-pack is a little small and looks a lot like a normal backpack, and what was once my Delegatus is now a Herald with a Headsmans Axe.
From there, I can take a Terror Squad as Troops, true they no longer have any close combat weapons because GW are retarded, but oh well, 5 Volkites and 5 Rotor Cannons it is, we'll have the Herald lead them.
From there I should have enough command slots and prime slots to make the Herald a Paragon of Battle and take the Leviathan somehow.

Maybe Destroyers wont be completely shit in the PDF, or at least will keep the Rad Launcher. Hopefully the Boxnaught wont lose the Missile Launcher and Chainfist option.

>>96182631
>mk2 is IH
>saturnine termies and dread are Sallies
>turret is RG
well they did invent the deathstorm drop pod, so I guess I could see them also coming up with the autocannon cuck cage

my GW painted up a bunch of base colours for a bunch of the legions for the heresy release in some quick and easy schemes

would anyone like a pic for how they were done? just say a legion and i'll post a photo

>>96182657
>just say a legion and i'll post a photo
AL and TS please

>>96182657
Dark angels

>>96182660
forgot to mention, outside of iron warriors, none are metallic
so for TS it'll be a matte scheme shared with BA if you still want it

>>96181299

No. They overcompensated for how broken they were in 2.0. This happens a lot with a lot of companies. They ALWAYS overcompensate when fixing balance problems. It happened tons of times in X-Wing for example. Massive overreaching nerfs that hit and ruined completely unintended targets.

Hell, it once happened with Bandai's Gundam War cardgame of all things. Sentinel (Or EX-S one of them) had the Quick Keyword (Essentially, Instant and you could deploy as many units with it as you like in your turn) and was completely breaking the game balance as a result. Sentinel Gundam, being a gundam, was a Blue faction card.
So instead of just... removing the card from the game pool. They nerfed how Quick worked so you could only deploy one unit per turn with it.
Problem was Zeon's (Green) ENTIRE FUCKING CORE IDENTITY was spamming cheap trash using quick. Completely ruined the entire faction and killed an entire archetype.
Game was dead within two years after that.

>>96182657
they did this for Prospero also

>>96182664
black basecoat, mech grey overbrush, administratum grey drybrush

as I said, its just the base colour, also applies to RG

>>96182666
kinda disappointed ngl
gimme NLs if they bothered to do the lightning bolts, otherwise a comparison between DA, IH and RG would be nice
thanks anon

>>96181723

>Flat colour purple Emperors Children.
>In an era where Sigvald Burgundy Contrast on Leadbelcher undercoat exists.

What the actual fuck. Like... it's literally the easiest shit in the world to do and looks fantastic with zero fucking effort. Jesus, did they force her not to use contrast paints? Or washes? I think maybe they let her just splash on a bit of Nuln Oil onto the guns... but holy fuck.

>>96182682
DA, RG and IH are all the same, here >>96182677

as i said it was just the base colour so I wont bother with a photo, NL is
>black basecoat
>kantor blue overbrush
>caledor sky drybrush

>>96182657
Alpha legion pls

>>96182698
he's painting it right now, it'll be a matte scheme, if you want metallic blue AL just buy TS-54 spray

>>96182686
>her

>>96182703
I like matt scheme, feel free to post later

Besides some infantry boxes, what else should i get to start legions imperialis?

>>96182686
There is a video of warhipster dude painting Tarvitz; that purple is great, maybe slightly brighter than I like, but in line with most FW stuff.

>>96182735
nobody plays legion imperialias, the sculpts suck and the terrain is overpriced.

>>96182752
For the terrain we have 3d printers, and the models are fine for that scale, no one looks close at that small infantry

>>96182686
>her

anyone got the mech book?

as in, has it physically, not the leaks

As far as I understand, Dominators are not a thing anymore - can I still use these as a Command Squad?

How did Legions like the iron warriors and Death Guard manage to not go extinct? With their style of warfare they had high losses and probably lost a lot of genseed too. So how come they never ended up as a "small" legion?

>>96182877
IW particularly had very, very stable geneseed and was easily implanted. They had the stability, the recruits, supply lines and flexibility to justify (however foolishly) their way of war.

>>96180060
>Iron warriors on the front cover of both journals

>No new rules for IW

Absolute pottery, poster boys of the edition and they still get nothing

what's the diameter of the new tarantulas?

>>96182853
Dominators are in the pdf

>>96180960
3.0s scatter is robbed from 3rd or 4th ed 40k

>>96182553
Average to bad

Legion specific units have been gutted and pdf'd

Tyrants are way too expensive and also have a worse missile launcher than last edition

Robots are still ws3 and therefore ass

Legion trait is now about testing against status effects with unmodified ld which will end up being an everything or nothing trait depending on opponents army comp

They have no meaningful interaction with what should be there key phase ( shooting)

Their prime benefit is also absolute ass, you award one less VP in kill point based VP on a unit

>>96179666
Is there any fluff in there that sticks out as a new addition to the Drop Site Massacre?

>>96182698
Metallic silver -> Asurmen Blue (for the old FW deep blue scheme), or Akelian Green (for the new slight teal scheme.)

how could I make a force based on the harrowing? the famous AL tactic of starting with infiltration and then bringing in overwhelming force

I was thinking something like a list starting off with alpharius, 4 tactical squads with interdiction cadre prime benefit, headhunter detachments with seekers and land raider explorators outflanking, and some lernaens inside them?

>>96182930
Retard
I hate IW faggots more than anyone, but I dont think there's a single correct point in this entire post.
Except yes Tyrants blow ass, but they always did.

>>96181753
you should probably see a shrink, you've got serious self confidence issues and what may be a narcissistic personality disorder if you think as a newcomer to any skill you'd instantly master it

I mean that's just a deranged assumption you're making, never mind the fact that you're automatically assuming anybody else would feel the same way and not, you know, normal, like things take time and practice to learn

>>96180833
Yeah sure, literally every game all I see are dozens of lascannon HSS shooting fifteen times every turn with reactions, it's a plague, and epidemic, a pandemic even, woe and save us oh lord!

Interceptor needs to be toned down, that's it. The scenario required for a unit to actually shoot more than twice in a turn let alone at the same enemy unit are so hilariously implausible that it amazes me dipshit nogames are dumb enough to buy into the troll or expect the rest of us who actually play tabletop games to be dumb enough to join them.

>>96179187 (OP)
>Used to think Iron Hands were boring as fuck, Raven Guard too
>Actually read the material in Black Books

Fuck anons they’re actually quite cool, what other legions have this feel of thinking they’re trash but actually they’re not kinda vibe? I feel it with emperors children too

RAPE every 3.0 player until they play 1.0/2.0 instead

is it possible to build tybalt marr without the cape, provided you only need to change the shoulderpads?

want to use him as a base for a kitbash

>>96179232
"Can I copy your homework ?"

>>96181096
>infinity halves armor saves blah blah
That sounds genuinely fucking retarded. Why on earth would an AP round that can punch through 7 points worth of armour against a heavily armoured target have any trouble at all with just 2 points of armour? You shit your panties at the abstraction required by a D6 system but are happy with that level of nonsensical fucktardery?

Sigh, another case of I Can't Tell My Opinions From Factitis, I'm afraid this one's terminal. I advise you book a flight to Dignitas/Canada as soon as you can before the looks of sad pity you must get every moment of your life from sane, intelligent people drive you to something messier.

Currently pondering what/how much AT I should be bringing. I've got melta thallax, 3 calix, kratos, and a Cerberus. Couple spartans with lascannons but wondering if I'm missing any bases, i.e. anti-dread or anti-light armor/bikes.

hows the Shartynine stock looking? Are we on 30% discount yet?

>>96183177
Bro we've been at like 35% already for 3 days lol

>>96183136
Everyone thinks WB’s are just moustache twirling retards cause of a few writers and their general beats but then you read some of their books and realise the emotional depth they have, constantly feeling like their very existence and purpose is being tested. They knowingly walk down a path they know dooms many, and they bear that weight not because they enjoy it but because they believe it’s their duty. That commitment and the inter-clashing beliefs of their commanding officers make them far more interesting than any other legions. They're the most truthful liars. They bring salvation to those who don’t need it. They fight to unshackle the imperium only so they’d bind everyone to new masters and gods. They are the biggest hypocrites and most naive dreamers to don power armour.

They are chaos incarnate.

>>96183154
Nah, child, you are just mentally retarded.
If you're shooting at thick tank armor need penetration, you shoot a thin HVAP dart which is small and drills deep.
If you're shooting a lightly armored target, you'd instead want HE or fragmentation type ammunition to do massive damage to soft matter.
You're just far too retarded to imagine anything beyond a basic game designed for people of 6 year old intelligence level.

>>96183177
-35% fire sale during preorder period before day 1 of release even arrived.
In a month similar sales will spread to North America.
By Black Friday, boxes will literally be 40-50% off worldwide. Rarely even higher (like a dinged/dented copy)

>>96182795
I do, why you asking?

>>96183177
dunno, I printed other designs

>>96183150
What part am I copying? Fucking iron anon? Kek im not trying to do OSL I wanted to tint the armour colour

Post models

>>96182877
You can culture geneseed directly from a primachs blood, thats how the TS recovered so quickly after meeting Magnus.

Pert did completely destroy his homes demographics though, the planet was like, 90% women by the time the revolt happened.

>>96183194
apparently they have alternate primary detachments you can pick instead of the standard crusade army force org in the BRB
is this true? if so, can you take a picture?

additionally, if possible, can you take a picture of the full page for each mech sub-faction (e.g cybernetica, macrotek etc) as the leaks only have a zoomed in picture of the detachment or the rule

>>96183211
https://imgur.com/a/lRaqKSw

>>96183177
I hope it keeps bombing hard enough to lower prices on all heresy kits

>>96183211
Ayo, so i checked the book and there's nothing mentioning an alternate primary detachment, there are two mechanicum aux detachments they get in addition to all their fancy apex detachments, these are them.

There's no need to bake for another couple hours at least, but for the next thread I wanna ask, are there any links for Liber Questoris or the Journal Tactica to add to the OP?

>>96183269
Fucking hell. Right heres the full pages of all the subcult stuff in the book, not including unique tech magic which is on a separate section.

>>96183279
I hate metadata.

>>96183279
Wassup 'Straya cunt?

>>96183203
you clearly copied the pose, anon
literally the same walking stance, and the outstretched left arm, holding a pistol
/sneed

>>96183294
And here's another picture of the aux detachments, hopefully the right way round this time.

>>96183149
i think you'd need new shoulderpads, new backpack and do a tiny bit of scraping

>tactical sergeants come with a bolter they can't get rid of by default
>in the mk vi tactical kit, sergeants with melee weapons cannot be modeled with bolters based off the kit alone

Huh???

>>96183299
thanks lad, the leaks missed out a lot on this like only techpriests etc getting the faction bonus

macrotek apex detachment is insane, every vehicle gets +1 front and side armour, +2 hullpoints and if its a transport, +2 capacity too

>>96183308
anon, stop trying to bring logic into GW's decisions

>>96183308
It's to force you to buy this, which includes slung boltguns

>>96183316
This is useless though since all melee weapons use the right arm, which is the same arm the underslung bolter is modeled for

>>96183364
The kit includes left arm power fists to make up for this

>>96183316
its a disgrace they dont give you chainaxes there. And only 2 spears.

hey if I don't have any interest in playing 1st, 2nd, or 3rd edition, are there any alternatives that people play?

>>96183258
This has already happened at Dark Sphere

>>96183402
what sort of bait is this

>>96183402
LIgma, the old bols rules, AT, the various fan supplements for the different editions of epic, battlefleet heresy.

>>96181559
>>96180849
Glad you like it. I've been considering what to give mixed load-out dreads. Maybe Firestorm to represent a more skirmisher type of dread?

>>96183290
>Gambit: The Myrmidon's Path
>If this gambit is selected, then the controlling player must roll and additional dice in the focus step and discard the dice with the highest result before determining the total. however, in the strike step, the model for which this gambit is selected may make a shooting attack with a single ranged weapon that does not have the blast X, template or barrage special rules before any either model makes any attacks.
>plus more text

better than the breaker? twin phased plasma fusils on a myrmidon lord is gonna fuck over anyone in a challenge

>>96183432
>>96183440
I mean for the 32mm minis. This is not bait. I'm not locking myself into a system that I don't like just because I'm a fan of the setting. Plenty of mini agnostic rules out there.

>>96183451
>4 shots, hitting on 2s, wounding on 3s/4s (breaching on 4s), d1
Its fine, its basically "4 extra attacks with better accuracy but a not very good weapon"

Maybe today we will get an image dump or PDF of Knights and Titans...

>>96183458
archmagos could take a meltagun and use that? assuming you took a myrmidax archmagos

>>96183463
Sure, thats probably better.

>>96183457
The old bols rules are at 28/32mm, they just lack most things that we take for granted now but I think you probably won't like them either. To be honest I dunno, there aren't any /awg/ systems that spring to mind that fit considering most of them are for much smaller armies.

>>96182877
>>96182885
I presume DG had very stable geneseed also, compared to the EC and TS who got really bad one mkay.

>>96183406
Yeah but a lot of dark spheres stock is already gone, if you don't want saturnine theres nothing much up for grabs anymore.

Legion for this feel?

>>96183476
>Yeah but a lot of dark spheres stock is already gone
It was gone before they announced a general sale, which is probably why they went "30 off everything".

>>96183470
well what about weighed against the other gambits?

lets assume its a standard myrmidon lord with his poweraxe and battle meditation, so he's I1

>>96183484
Well, that dude doesent get the option of a meltagun.

>>96183451
Its certainly better than the auxilia gambit which let's them shoot a pistol and then costs them all their melee attacks and automatically gives the enemy challenge advantage.

If inferno pistols were D2 I'd understand, you'd essentially just be gambling everything on the hope that your enemy fails his invulnerable save and dies instantly to D4.

But since inferno pistols are D1 you should only ever use the gambit if the enemy challenging is already badly injured (somehow) i guess it works as a finisher if your Legate gets his opponent down to 2 wounds but is absolutely going to die next round.

>>96183504
The SA gambit is purely there for spite, you fire off a pistol to do some damage before instantly dying (as opposed to picking a regular gambit, and instantly dying before you get to use it)

>>96183503
well is 4 plasma gun shots before anyone attacks worth it over say, finishing blow's +1 S and D?

>>96183522
With only 3A? probably yea. Especially since one is hitting on 2s vs hitting on 4s/5s

>>96183293
Have you ever built the Mark III kit?

>>96183293
incredible bait, anon. well struck! yes see how he rages, jolly ho!

What does the moritat do now? I haven't played a lot of HH but didn't he keep firing his pistols until he failed?
I didn't see anything like that in his rules now. Am I just illiterate?

>>96183539
He can volley fire at full BS and then he/his unit can then cancel the charge after.

>>96183545
Ah okay, I did read that correctly.
Weird change

>>96183504
Melta doesn't work on non-vehicles.

>>96183461
>MFW I have been sitting on a zip of every page from my knights liber for almost 2 weeks and I just haven't posted it because I don't feel like it

>>96183520
Eh, the Legate has a 2+ 5++ with 4 wounds, 4 attacks and WS5, he can definitely do SOMETHING in a duel unless he's fighting a champion or a Praetor.

Rhing is hes also the only one with a gun good enough to do damage with the gambit, best anyone else can do is fish for damage on a plasma pistol.

>>96183551
He can get an archeotech pistol too, same thought process.

>>96183520
This sucks because in 1.0 and 2.0 we could make a marshal that could stand up to marine characters in challenges. Not allowed anymore.

>>96183552
Surely you do. Nobody would ever lie on the internet, now would they.

>>96183539
He used to fire his pistols 6 times, stopped if he rolled overhead
Now he has custom guns that fire 3 times and can fire volley fire at full BS so it's kinda the same thing
Tho he lost some options since the custom guns can't be exchanged
He can charge now after shooting but he doesn't have good melee weapons I don't think

>americans have been seeing mkii sprues at 72% of gw's prices before the release
>some ebay sales are bundling in a disintegrator sprue with 10 mkii at the same discounted price

What's a good system similar to kill team where you control individual models? I'd like to do small scale squad level stuff against my buddy but the million stratagems of kill team kind of put me off

>>96183648
Don't use them?

>>96183648
Victory is vengeance?

>>96183534
I was very obviously joking, anon. I even added the /sneed at the end as a way to clearly show I was being sarcastic.

Yes, I have built nuMk3 kits, as well as nuMk6 and I'm well aware of their extremely limited posability out of the box, and lack of bits and options for sergeants.

My reply was actually in support of you, as I know how dumb the kits are when it comes to customizing, and that other anon's post was very low effort bait.

but I guess if you were able of noticing sarcasm and were tism-free, you wouldn't be playing IWs. no offence

>>96183648
One of the black books has the victory is venegance mode which is just that.

>>96182853
There is literally no difference between dominator and a cataphractii command squad other than being able to go up to 10 models (which Cataphractii command squads can now do) so yes.

>>96182853
Dominators are, like in 2.0, a legacy unit. Dominators are also just command squad with thunder hammers (except theyre cheaper and hate automata)

>>96183674
how retarded are you that you can't even read a unit entry? dominators have different equipment+ special rules

>>96183615
Yea, thats what happens when a new big box launches. Do you not remember buying cheap as shit MK6 marines when AOD came out? They were like £20 for 10 if not less.

>>96183731
i remember because i have still have a stack of mkvi sprues for diorama fodder
from what i saw, mkvi weren't bundled with special weapon sprues that gave even more value to the purchase
try not to cope too hard, its rarer when americans get to have deep discount fun

Question came up with my buddy as we were running out RAI/RAW discussion because GW and their wording.

If i take a allied detachment, does that allied detachment get access to auxiliary in the big rule book? or can they also take the detatchments from their specific army book.

Example in question is, can a Solar aux allied detatchment take a Artillery Tercio?

His argument was, the Solar aux book says that if you are using an army list that is solar aux you can take it, and that an allied detachment was not consider to be part of the army list, since the army list step is before taking allies. The idea being your primary detachemnt is the "army list"

My argument was that under allied, it explicitly says that you build detachments in the same manner as the primary meaning its also its own army list.

What do you guys think? This was not like a big argument it was just a matter of us running out the intentions based on GW wording.

>>96183481
Night Lords (left) vs Dark Angels (right) at Thramas crusade.

Or Night Lords (right) vs unarmed civilians (left) at Thramas crusade.

>>96183763
>from what i saw, mkvi weren't bundled with special weapon sprues that gave even more value to the purchase
I havent seen any MKIIs with them either, the ones I saw were separate listings. Although maybe some are. Although calling the new disintegrators "value" is perhaps a tad generous

>>96183766
>If i take a allied detachment, does that allied detachment get access to auxiliary in the big rule book? or can they also take the detatchments from their specific army book.
Yes.

>Example in question is, can a Solar aux allied detatchment take a Artillery Tercio?
Yes.

They also get to have a cohort special rule and whatever else. The only thing they cant get is any apex detachments.

>>96183775
Thanks anon

>>96183779
Ok thats what i was figuring as well and thats what seemed to be the correct answer any way. Does GW spell that out anywhere?

>>96183766
There's is an explicit definition of what an army list is in the book, and when you pick your army list in the initial steps in list building it explicitly calls out that its just for your primary, aux, apex, and warlord detachments . What your friend is trying to refer to is just the army roster.

>>96183766
RAW any army that uses a certain Army List in any way has access to that Army Lists aux detachments

>>96183789
In the bit you posted, where allied detachments are built in the same way as the primary.

>>96183800
>>96183796
>>96183793
super duper, thank you nerds.

>>96183615
americans have to pay the tariffs, the resellers are all LGS who got hit with extra tax they can't afford if they sell the boxes legit and know the IRS being gutted means nobody will come after their ebay earnings

congratulations, your economy has become a rummage sale

Ordered 20 mkII marines while theyre cheap. Not sure if having my army be a random mishmash of marks (3, 6, 2) is good or bad, but it is what it is.

So is the PDF out yet or is that coming later?

>>96183836
Might be today, seems to not me, probably monday once everyone is back at the office.

>>96183836
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/

>>96183282
>>96183287
>>96183290
>>96183294
>>96183299
Sasuga Anon that was one of the few things holding me back from trying out mech with the leaks. If you wouldn't mood, could you also take a sweep through special rules and wargear? The one in OP is annoyingly missing a few.

>>96183827
Jokes on you. I'm winning so hard right now, what's it like? Knowing that I'm a winner.

>>96183835
>Mk VI Tacticals+Support
>MK III Breachers
>MK II Heavy Support
>MK IV Veterans (Eventually)

>>96183836
Probably somewhere next week, when GW staff is back at work instead of getting plastered in the pub.

>>96183839
>>96183840
LOL faqs and point changes for books that are dropping today, this is amazing.
People literally buying books that are out of date.

If legacies dont drop today, my ass its even finished lol.

Can someone upload a photo of unhelmeted Space Wolf from Liber Astartes please? First time when unhelmeted space marine ever appeared in (ex) ForgeWorld books.

>>96183779
>I havent seen any MKIIs with them either
Just went through my history, and they've either sold out or been pulled. Main seller I saw is now pairing sergeant sprues and disintegrator sprues.
>calling a special weapons sprue 'value' is a tad generous
idk senpai, even if you low ball it, it's still official and plastic. planning on trying to convert them, and if i'm lucky to get a cheap box, see if the saturnine is good for kitbashing
i'm working on mkii despoilers now, the new mkii sprue is pretty slick

>>96183481
Dark Angels (left) and 3.0 (right)

>>96183857
40k has had FAQ for codexes come out a week early, relentless balance updates and rules changes almost every month, yet it's still the biggest tabletop wargame in the world.

>>96183862
>Main seller I saw is now pairing sergeant sprues and disintegrator sprues.
Theyre not including the sarge sprue with the tacticals? Absolute fucking shilock.

>idk senpai, even if you low ball it, it's still official and plastic. planning on trying to convert them
Oh sure, in that sense its value. But the guns suck, so is anyone going to use them?

>>96183836
It's delayed because they have to conjure up all the options people cried about

>>96183868
with Excindio Automata for 25 points per unit (just wait for the pdf!1!!) everything will be good.

>>96183481
Dark Angels (left) vs Dark Angels (right)

>>96183872
Using 40k as an example is not helping the case.
They are litearlly adjusting points already hah thats funny as fuck.

>>96183874
Yeah there is no way that PDF is ready to go. lol.

>>96183827
>congratulations, your economy has become a rummage sale
it's been this way since before i was born, it will stay that way when i die. ever declining
i will live the freeter life to fuel my hobby because that is the only life i know how to live

>>96183868
>>96183877

Dark angels (probably) arent weak in 3.0. The legion trait isnt very exciting, but the detachments are very strong and their special units and weapons are still very good. Cenobium arent the bullshit they were in 2.0, but theyre still clearly very good, companions are now very strong, interemptors are still solid even with their plasma flamers not as broken as before. Everything still works, its just not reeking of favoritism.

>>96183842
Yeah I'll post them all in a sec, not gonna compile them anywhere tho, some other nerd can stick them in Imgur or whatever.

>>96183852
No
>all Mk III
>maybe a smattering of Mk II
>I play Death Guard

>>96183873
heavy disintegrators are great now. If I ever play HH3 I'll take several.
regular disintegrator rifles arent great in HH3, but in HH2 they're just 'disintegrators' which are great, AP2 rapid fire instant death against terminators.
though it's the kind of sprue you only need 1 of total, not 1 with every single set of tactical marines.

>>96183827
our economy is doing gangbusters. Budget surplus, low inflation, good stock market, criminal invaders kicked to the curb. Meanwhile eurofaggots are getting raped and jailed in their own countries for mean tweets while their wives and children get muslammed.

>>96183893
In 3.0 Dangels are not weak but they are very much like Tsons in 2.0 in that, you bascially have 2 tricks you can play, and if you are not playing those 2 tricks you are at disadvantage.

You got stormwing spam, and Deathwing spam for DWC, thats about it. Which dont get me wrong those 2 things are strong, but its a case of, oh you wanna play dreadwing, ravenwing, ironwing or firewing? Fuck you, you dont get to.
Which feels really shitty.

>>96183873
>Theyre not including the sarge sprue with the tacticals?
the purchase i got from him came with the sarge sprue, but yeah it's like he saw his mistake and decided to do a pendulum swing on his tactics.
>fuck it was like i was just giving them away, people will want the special guns, let's package the sarge and the disintegrators as a generic "saturnine upgrade pack"

Are Mortus Poisoners still a thing in 3e? I was going to buy some gas mask helmets for a squad if they are, since I have a pile of flamethrowers.

>>96183907
>you bascially have 2 tricks you can play
I very much disagree. If you use their special units? Sure, theyre basically limited to "elite melee beaters", but all of their wing detachments are insanely good which should give them excellent flexibility for doing several different playstyles.

>you wanna play dreadwing, ravenwing, ironwing or firewing? Fuck you, you dont get to.
>Which feels really shitty.
I dont think thats true.
Firewing gets easy access to seekers, which look to be great. The dreadwing aux detachment lets you spam rapiers (which are good) or your dreadwing dudes (which are situational, but you can stick them in a drop pod to have a really nasty DS surprise)
Ravenwing gives you a mixed access to outriders (which are looking to be potent this edition) and fast attack slots (which have several really good units this edition, including the storm-eagle which might be rather busted).
Ironwing just get a mixed tank detachment which admittedly isnt very exciting.

But DA definetly have the tools to support basically any style of army you want to make, they dont get "better units", but they get easier access to those units (and prime slots) than other legions. They arent better "seeker for seeker" than other legions, but the firewing can simply bring more seekers because everyone else has to use an apex detachment or logistical benefit, while they use an aux detachment. Their rapier teams arent better, but they get to take more rapier teams because they have an aux detachment with 3 slots rather than 2 for those.

>>96183933
Legacy unit (same as in 2.0)

>>96183933
Death Guard are waiting for legacies for Chem throwers and mortus poisoners, but they're in there

>>96183933
They are coming in the legacies pdf because with 2 characters and 2 legion specific units DG were already taking up too much space in the liber.

>>96183938
>>96183938
>>96183938

>>96183907
>>96183893
Are companions and cenobium even good? They're killy, but with jump packs removed from companions they both need a land raider. They don't have vanguard which is a serious issue in this edition. Dark Angels as a legion are now just the Master Sargeant with Terranic Greatsword legion

Starting a proper traitor force with Death Guard, painted a big 20 man squad of tactical marines so far. Trying to work out a 'core' roughly 1200 list that I'll take most games and then use the remaining points for everything else. How does this sound?
>20 man tac squad w/ vexilla, nuncio, augary scanner, Sgt w/ artificer and scythe, attached Apothecary w/ scythe.
>20 man tac squad w/ vexilla, nuncio, augary scanner, Sgt w/ artificer and scythe, attached Apothecary w/ scythe.
>5 man Reconnaissance squad w/ 5 nemesis bolters.
>5 man Reconnaissance squad w/ 5 nemesis bolters.
>10 man HSS with auto cannons, tech marine w/ cognis signum, and a nearby Siege Breaker for sunder on a nearby unit (not actually in the unit, so they can keep the heavy bonus).
How does this sound? Good core? Too weak/strong? I want to use 20 man tac squads for a Great Crusade massed legionary feel, as well as Death Guard resilience with Apothecaries and Heart of the legion. But I'm willing to avoid it if blast or getting swept will just waste my points. Building this for 2.0 also, maybe will use in 3.0 if my group ever moves over.
>>96183903
Based.

>>96183969
>Are companions and cenobium even good?
Yes? Theyre both still incredibly powerful facebeaters. Theyre just very strong melee units that do very well into basically all targets.

>they both need a land raider.
Or a storm eagle (hey ravenwing, lend a hand), or a spartan. But the cenobium always needed a transport, theyre cata terminators.

>>96179187 (OP)
Anons I have my Saturnine box coming on Monday, but I’m struggling to pick a legion.

What legions did you pick to collect and why? I need some inspiration show me why you picked your guys

>>96183185
>YOUR abstraction is silly, childish, foolish
>MY abstraction is sophisticated, meaningful, delicious
>We are not the same *sips whisky* *tips fedora* *gets pegged by his tranny GF*

Seriously do you grasp how deranged you sound? The D6 approach is flawed because while remaining a logical progression it's not very granular. You're defending a completely irrational system with
>Uhh, um, just leik imagine they're shooting different ammo loser

Do your mother a favour and correct her mistake by chowing down on some rat poison, you irredeemable weebfuck retard.

>>96183972
How did you find painting them anon? I feel a pressure to make my lads look good on the table with heresy which I think is actually a good thing, pushes people to try

>>96184000
I pushed my first squad out extremely quick and dirty, mostly to gage my interest in the scheme. Spray, paint details, shade and weathering for a very quick paintjob. Literally a single painting sessions worth.

>>96184006
They look great anon! Nice to get the troops done and maybe you can spend more time of vehicles or characters

>>96184022
Cheers! Considering I'm painting up 40 guys before anything else, I'm actually totally fine with painting a little lower quality than I am used to. They already look sick from playing distance as they are, even better once massed I'm sure.

>>96183983
>Or a storm eagle
Nta, I'm glad the day-minus-one FAQ allowed flyers to come in from outside your deployment zone. That makes them so much better.
Rip deepstrike though; never forget

>>96184079
Even without that they were good. A storm eagle carrying jump marines had a melee threat range of like 30"

>>96181138
>sprint full speed towards a unit of bloodletters, while firing your missile launcher backwards
Using the recoil to gain a speedboost. 100% simulation game

>>96182617
I know everyone says "All legions had all armor types", but everyone REALLY did have Mk2. Even in traitor units with lots of Mk3 and access to Mk4, the shitter guys they don't like as much would have been stuck in their old Mk2.

>>96181311
>faqcucks
Come on.
It's clearly Faqqots
It's right there
God damn it Anon

All the HH2 faqs, rules, and exemplary battles have been removed from GW's website.
However, I've found a pastebin with direct links to the PDFs and they still work:
>https://pastebin.com/b7tM2S3T
Hurry up and download them before they dissapear forever

>>96183481
Sons of Horus vs Sons of Horus

>>96184626
>Trying this fucking hard to erase the last edition
Fuck GW

Anyone got the 3.0 rules for Secutsrii in liber questoris scanned?

>>96179187 (OP)
Seeing people who have never played heresy getting tricked into 2.0 is hilarious
>oh no that resin unit I don’t own that’s awful in 2.0 lost a power maul option, better stick to the edition where half the astartes liber is unplayable garbage

>>96180026
Sisters got hit bad by
>no models, no rules in book
But everything else seems great. Some fun rules interactions too like the jet bike lances hitting hard but you only get attacks after charging