Thread 96183853

What would a fantasy setting based on sicily look like?
>pizza based magic
>rampant corruption
>constant invasions by !notcarthage, !notrome, !notgreeks, !notarabs
>a wealthy, powerful and supremely based norman king

>>96183853 (OP)
I don't think mafia aesthetics mesh well with fantasy

>>96183891
New Capenna does it well

>>96183853 (OP)
First you have to decide on if you are going for a parody with pizza magic nonsense etc., or a more serious setting. If you go for a serious one, it might be best to mostly base it on a specific point of time in sicily history rather than that kind of mishmash.

>>96183853 (OP)
Please take it to /his/.

>>96183853 (OP)
It would look like a tall glass of bleach you should drink to kill yourself, faggot

It's not about what a singular "fantathy thetting bathed on Thithily" would look like.
For starters, fantasy can go so deep on its own, that there are too many possibilities to go over. Even with no limits to posting length, and even with hundreds of years to type them out, that still wouldn't cover a fraction of the possibilities.
Even isolating concepts to just those "based on Sicily", there are still a perceivably infinite number of ways it could manifest. Is it based on Sicily's geography, and to what degree? Is it based on its history; which era and to what degree? Is it based on its people, and to what degree? Is it based on its culture, and to what degree? Is it a combination of these things; what is the combination, and to what degree are each of those aspects based on Sicily?
It would look like however the fuck its creator wants it to look, that's the answer to your shitty question.
You're fucking stupid, and your thread sucks.

>>96183925
I was hoping someone else who posted in this thread would decide for me, because I actually don't know anything about sicilian culture. or very much about its history if I'm being honest.
I'm vaguely aware that vikings ruled it for a while, and everyone in every period of history seems to invade it constantly for some reason.
Oh, and I guess I have a sense that it's where a lot of the criminal elements of italy set up shop and come from (south italy more broadly speaking). But I actually don't know what people generally think about it or what "its story" is history wise, so I just put a bunch of stuff in the OP that I hoped would provoke an emotional reaction

>>96183927
I can't tell you why, but I have a form of autism that means I can only take an interest in things when I relate them to tabletop rpgs. So my setting needs a sicily analogue and atm I don't have time to really educate myself about it. So, I'm looking for passive ways to get it fleshed out

I can't find any documentaries about sicilian history and I'm not going to seek out books about it because I frankly have more important stuff to be reading rn. but I figure if I can get some solid feedback here then I can get it added to my setting before classes start.

>>96183891
>>96184078
>>96183919
I think there are some deeper resonances between mafia fantasy and oldworld/dungeon fantasy. Mafia settings are all about parallel, coexisting corridors of power, which essentially are a reified concept of the feudal aristocracy. It simultaneously blends an american, "hustle and dream big" culture, so that most mafia *stories* are about a struggle to attain power by an individual in this world, or to resolve a conflict (diplomatically or decisively) between one or more factions

that aligns to a 'T' with how I see most of the settings on here being structured.

>>96183853 (OP)
What system?

>>96184413
>autism
Ah, that makes sense.
So even using maths to explain why your question is completely inane and impossible to answer would go completely over your head.
Follow >>96184078's advice; drink bleach and die.

>>96184413
GURPS
people meme on it here but I've been running it since I was fifteen so I know it like the back of my hand

that's also why I just need an objective description. if I get a realistic picture of what the culture and people are really like I can adapt it without too much trouble

>>96184412
96184519
surely there are stories about sicilians, right? what genre are those usually? who makes them? surely there's some sort of folk tradition or distinctive cultural trait that makes sicilians sicilian?

>>96183891
I think it could work in the hands of the right writers and artists, but there would need to be care taken to avoid flanderisation. You don't want it to involve into. "Ey, Archie the Necromancer raised an army of gabaghouls, go whack him."

You could definitely stil do a lot with organised crime and secretive criminal organisations in a fantasy setting. Have the Omerta be a literal magic pact they make that strikes them dead if they try to speak to the authorities and so on.

>>96183853 (OP)
Isn't pizza from Napoli? My grandpa was Sicilian and he didn't have pizza until he came to the US.

>>96184413
>but I have a form of autism that means I can only take an interest in things when I relate them to tabletop rpgs
That's bullshit but I believe it

>>96183853 (OP)
Take the most interesting period in its medieval history--the 11th century.

During that period, the Italic people were majority Muslim and ruled by Vikings who expanded to surrounding islands.

>>96184597
>surely there's some sort of folk tradition or distinctive cultural trait that makes sicilians sicilian?
You didn't really read my post, did you?
If you did, you'd see why that isn't the point.

>>96184704
>>96184519

bruh if I had tons of ideas for it already I wouldn't be posting here. the whole point of a conversation is to narrow down what ideas work and what ideas are dumb

it's a 4chan thread dude. it doesn't have to be a treatise about every possibility for sicilian archetype possible-without-leaning-into-harmful-tropes. just an idea. one passing through between your neurons that could fit the concept.

whats the matter, are you creativity drained? you ran out of ideas in 2021 so now you need to go out begging on the street? you need imagination charity? ideas don't pop out of the theory they arise out of dialogue.

this kind of tone policing is exactly why /tg/ fucking blows now. faggots like you shit up any thread that isn't
>hey here's the 20 trillionth thread today about [popular multimedia mega franchise], everyone hop in an rehash the same arguments we've been stewing in since 2014
If that's what you like fine, go do that, but don't come in here acting like I'm crashing out by posting one thread that tries to spark some discussion

I made a perfectly legitimate post for /tg/, and you two both started whining after I gave totally cordial replies. that's why I'm writing scathingly now. you two asked for it, and you've now gotten what's coming to you.

>>96184682
ok, fair enough
it seems like that was a period where sicily was a superpower. What jumps out at me is that basically everyone (the byzantines, the papacy, the aghlabids, the HRE) seemed to want a peace of the action, and it was the daring and courage of the vikings who sailed south and took the island that enabled them to create an imperial project on a scale that nobody else in christendom was undertaking.

so what if, in the fantasy setting, the kings of norman sicily are represented as a super power that reunited the fragments of a long dead empire, using a precious metal that everyone else wants, but nobody else can get. Call it handwavium, we can figure out what it does later

Scyla and Charybdiss ruling the waters plus Aephestus living in mt. Etna.
The three points (Cape Peloro, Cape Passero, Cape Boeo) correspond to spaces controlled by Pseudo-Rome, Pseudo-Greece and Pseudo-Carthage.
The Sicilian Expedition of 415 B.C. is coming, but instead of Athenians it's pseudo-Byzantines with a big pseudo-Norman contingent of the not-Varangian Guard, who will turn on them.
The not-Aghlabid Arabs are coming too, but (in a twist) they're lead by pirate with a red beard and a silver arm (a pastiche of Hayreddin Barbarossa and his brother).
The Three legendary knights of Mafia (Ostro, Mastrosso, Carcagnosso) are real and they inhabit the rogue island of Favignana.
The "Evil Eye" is a huge deal in terms of magic curses, and the knights of the Opera dei Pupi are the main inspiration for major characters of the setting.

You decide how the pieces fit together.
>three civilizations at the corners
>two Huge Water Deities and one Fire Deity
>two invading expeditions
>Mafia as a secret knightly order

there's a lack of monsters but you can essentially recycle anything greek and roman.
Sirens and Mermaids should perhaps be somewhat prominent.

For more inspiration, you can look up what Brancalonia does with their Not! Sicily (I have no clue)

>>96184888
There's also the legend of the Giants of Messina (Mata and Grifo) a white woman and a black arab giant, and I don't really know what the rest of the story is about.

I also forgot that part of the Odyssey takes place in Sicily probably maybe perhaps (Circe and her men-turned-to-animals).

>>96184859
>What jumps out at me is that basically everyone (the byzantines, the papacy, the aghlabids, the HRE) seemed to want a peace of the action
You've really got 3 empires:
The Old Empire - Rome once ruled the world. It has been in decline for five hundred years. It still holds a lotta cultural and religious sway, but its influence is waning and the religion it once championed is becoming fractious (there's no "Byzantine Empire" yet. That's propaganda that the Germans invented in the 16th century. The Roman Empire is just the Roman Empire). Its religion is just about to fracture into countless warring sects.
The Dead Empire - The Arab Empire is gone. Its brief, brightly burning star conquered half the world. It brought countless technological, cultural and religious innovations to the old world, thrusting a civilization that wasn't ready for it centuries ahead of where the Old Empire had left them. Then it burned out, as quickly as it appeared.
The New Empire - The Seljuk Turks are factional and infighting. But in the near future a new, great Empire is going to arise in the model of the Dead Empire from the infighting between its countless states, poorly managed by weak imperial rulers.

>>96184859
>>96185079
Oh and then you have the Invaders, who currently rule the island. They're a buncha terrifying, hulking, violent-as-fuck marauders who found the old world ripe for the picking and just said "fuck it, mine!" They stole everything from everyone and they were really really good at it.

Use that template and make your not!Sicily. It'll be fun and feel real and lived in. 'Cuz it happened.

>>96185079
>>96185090
And this is where I love to use AI for ttrpg development. Asked it for 7 fantasy names following the phonetic convensions of each of the 7 factions (Rome, Turks, Arabs, Normans, Christians, Jews, Muslims). Here's my favorite of the options it gave me to rename each of those 7: Basilaean Imperium, Khazur Khanate, Sultanate of Kharazan, The Stormjarls, the Ecclesia Lucerana (gathering of the light, so your not!Christians are sun-worshippers), the Benei Arav (Sons of Arav, so there's the name of your not!Abrahama), and the Dawlat al-Qasabi (which yes: chatgpt just renamed Islam to "Government of the Butchers").

And now here are your major conflicts:
1. not!Rome wants to recapture the island
2. not!Turks want to capture the island
3. not!Normans are huge fans of the culture and even the religion and are converting to not!Islam but their own conqueror's version of it that the natives find unsettling
4. not!Arabs have been conquered by what seems like a pretty tolerant buncha invaders, despite the fact that they're hulking, mass-murderer barbarians. Once they got in place they basically said "Hey we like your guys' shit. We're gonna do that too--it's cool." But there's still a rebelious faction within the native population, maybe trying to prop up someone from the royal line of the dead empire
5. The not!Christians sure don't act like they're a minority religion. Their constant in-fighting is about to explode into five major factions and they'll start killing each other over it pretty soon
6. The not!Jews are a conspiratorial minority working with the state, terrified of how often they've been persecuted and willing to work with anyone in power who can keep them safe
7. The not!Normans conquer shit good. Running low on money? Conquer more shit!

>>96184859
>you ran out of ideas in 2021 so now you need to go out begging on the street?
Hilarious coming from someone who literally admitted to begging for the spoon a few posts ago.

>>96184859
>totally cordial replies
Ignoring the point of a post isn't cordial to any degree.

>>96185484
>>96185539
Seriously what do you get out of trying so desperately to be mean to strangers on the internet? Have some tiny modicum of self-respect and self-worth.

>>96185090
>>96185162
>>96185202
Here I made you a quick map since I'm having fun thinking about it, now.

>>96183853 (OP)
>constant invasions
only in antiquity and early middle ages. Since the Norman conquest in 1091 the ruling dynasty changed several times, but the island remined united and for the most part independent (except some insurrections).
if you want a clusterfuck of cultures, try antiquity - pic related (431 BC; 200 years later, Sicily became the first Roman province).

>>96186523
>except some insurrections
It should be possible to do something with a conflict based on the Sicilian Vespers.

>>96183853 (OP)
well, the Simbad movie main city is Syracuse

>>96185557
>what do you get out of trying so desperately to be mean to strangers on the internet?
-> >>96184859
>this kind of tone policing is exactly why /tg/ fucking blows now
Get some help for your self awareness.
Please.

>>96187731
Those are two different people, anon.

>>96187747
k

>>96187747
So, you don't understand how it's silly to jump in with tone policing to a reply chain that brought up tone policing?
Sounds like a self awareness issue to me.

>>96183853 (OP)
Pizza is from Naples.
Sicily have Arancini.

Also reminder that Italy was really several different nations for a millennia, until very recently history-wise.
>Garbaldi freemason piece of shit

Each region had, and still have, their own language, food and culture. So "italian" stereotypes don't really apply most of the time in an historical sense.

>>96184622
>gabaghouls
kek

>>96184888
blessed trips, and based anon
I'd say this is all a really good gloss of the history. it seemlessly incorporates basically all the major players that are aesthetically cool
>>96185557
nice good map

>>96185162
idk why but something about the name benei arav tickles my funnybone
So basically we're looking at a kind of politics heavy game, where you're trying to prepare to fight off the different invaders, and you have to unite the different towns on the island, or make judicious decisions about who to stab in the back to get ahead and keep your position
maybe the players are in a mercenary company, and they have to decide which group they'll hire themselves out to

>>96184918
>>96185079
>>96185090
also, the hellenistic mythology angle is brilliant. I hadn't really thought of that, but it literally fits so well

iirc the aeneid also takes place partly in sicily, doesn't it? that and the odyssey seem like good places to draw gegography from.
so you're kind of playing medieval society in a hellenistic antiquarian world

>>96183853 (OP)
Isn't there that one Italian RPG already?

>>96202139
You probably mean Brancalonia, which is a 5e setting/book series, not its own game, but the superior Italian RPG about Italy is Kata Kumbas.

>>96202279
Yeah but Brancalonia has the humorous parody implied by pizza magic.

>>96202310
Yeah but Kata Kumbas has the best starting gear random tables of all time.

Rolled 95 (1d100)

>>96202358
woah thats cool

rollon

>>96190575
God Arancini are so fucking good.

>>96183919
>New Capenna does it well

No the fuck it does not, New Capenna shows exactly why they don't fit together. It's reddit as hell and completely implausible and cringe.

>in the far future, in star system "Sicily", made of just 4 planets, 1 is in almost constant war
>the planet is used as a mutual battleground for the 3 most influential alien elites, who each rule their own planet in the star system
>the alien elites keep their own species off the battle planet, unless they are exceptional, & just use lesser species of their homeworlds
>the star system's ruling council judges the conflicts based on the terms of war, & rates each side of the conflict impartially
>battles are fought to settle disputes between the elites
>the planet is huge, over 100 times the size of Earth, but has just enough density so its gravity doesn't crush aliens or their equipment & vehicles
>because of its lesser density, it also rotates fairly quickly, meaning its day/night cycle isn't too far off from Earth's
>mysterious energy in its atmosphere prevents the speedy rotation of the planet from causing lethal high speed winds
>the energy from the atmosphere can be harnessed by some aliens with the capacity to do so & to learn
>there's also an invisible race of parasitic, psychic terrorists that attach themselves to aliens & grant them powers; the planet is being used to contain them
>these terrorists want to see the fall of the star system ruling council, but as they are, they lack the power & numbers to overthrow them
>in order to achieve their goals, the terrorist organization behaves like symbiotes, rather than just killing & overtaking their hosts' bodies
>this is to glorify the terrorist organization, & to spread convenient truths & lies to try and get the alien races to cooperate
>the 3 elites don't trust the parasites, & will ruthlessly destroy any infected who try to return home
>the elites are constantly working on pathogens that cause the least harm to aliens but will kill parasites once & for all
>this is tricky, because the star system council rules against chemical/biological warfare, regardless of the reason, & the parasites keep adapting

Also, the (un?)Dead should be a positive group of chummy people, and they should give sweets and toys to children

"In Sicily if they caught you stealing they'd break your fingers and then make you work off the debt. Of course you wouldn't be able to work off the debt because your fingers were broken and they'd sell you off to a Cypriot looking for a new wife and he's not picky."

>>96183853 (OP)
Simultaneously too small and too big. Sicily is a fairly small island but a historically relevant one for thousands of years. It's also not particularly distinct from the rest of italian culture. It's kinda like making a fantasy setting out of Venice. Yes, it's an important city but only in the context of the larger world.

>>96183853 (OP)
Brancalonia

>>96218054
>drinking chianti straight
bro that for stewing up pepposo

>>96213321
This is how I meet my girlfriend

>>96184413
>I have a form of autism that means I can only take an interest in things when I relate them to tabletop rpgs.
What a torturous existence that must be

Rolled 54 (1d100)

>>96202358
Rollan
>>96202512
Nice, excellent for hunting. Now you just need a bow.

>>96206200
Oh, hey, this is what a fantasy setting based on Sicily would look like.

>>96207639
>>96184622
>gabaghoul-claus

>>96218210
Yeah, it means I basically can't function at university level. There's a fair to strong probability that I fail this summer semester and am put back on academic suspension and/or expelled

>>96221207
I took my university degree, with a similar form of autism - it took me 10 fucking years and most of my family's money.
I'm currently unemployed

>>96220849
>two packs of cards
RIP

>>96183853 (OP)
What a cute, early 2000s understanding of Sicily. Did you just finish Summer school or get home from camp?

>>96223986
damn, sorry to hear it.
that does not auger well

>>96227284
In point of fact I posted this at probably the worst possible time that I could have, since my summer exams are coming up next week.
I'm actually pleasantly surprised that this thread got traction at all, tbqh

>>96184622
>You don't want it to involve into. "Ey, Archie the Necromancer raised an army of gabaghouls, go whack him."
says who

>>96232144
In retrospect that actually sounds like a fun premise for a light-hearted oneshot. Everyone rolls up fantasy mafioso characters.

Since the only Italians on teeg (let alone Sicilians specifically) are probably in this thread, any good fiction or history I can mine for ideas about country banditti? Also weird folklore or monsters that aren't just a cow that moos backwards or something.

>>96218054
Man, I adore the power level and humor of Brancalonia, but I wish it wasn't literally stapled onto a game for which I have personal distaste for the core mechanics.

>>96184622
>involve into.

>>96235828
>I made a typo on 4chan

>>96235760
It's hard to justify buying something for the art and setting alone, yeah.

>>96239745
To be fair, I actually really like some of the ancillary mechanics of Brancalonia. The shoddy equipment, revelry, and dive games are fun and flavorful additions, but I wish they were in their own game instead of tacked on.

>>96233870
Emilio Salgari was THE Italian adventure fiction writer, but he is mostly known for his pirate series in foreign lands (Sandokan, the Black Corsair). I don't think he did write about Italian bandits and brigands.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emilio_Salgari

>>96233870
Bandits from the South aren't named "Bandits", they're specifically named "Briganti" (Brigands).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKWfdluW568&list=RDTKWfdluW568&start_radio=1

Known for being either former "Two Sicilies" military or being paid off by the Pope or Carlists, for kidnapping people, living on mountains, and carrying trombone-shaped blunderbusses of the kind shepherds use to scare away wolves - also stereotypically depicted with a long Rasputin beard an a very weird, tall hat.

>>96226341
You say that, but I see a blessing from the gods of Italy.
We're running a rigged gambling parlor, a requirement for all mafia organizations. We'll all be made men in no time.

>>96183853 (OP)
I think antiquity would be best for this (though in general I'm biased towards antiquity over medieval).
You have Carthage influence on the western end of the island with Greek city-states under their thumb, and Syracuse in the east (but concentrated in the southeast, whereas the northeast is hardly under control).
You have Rome as a rising power and extending influence.
You have shit like the Mamertines (mercenaries) seizing a city for themselves.
The politics that led to Agathokles becoming a tyrant are ridiculous bit of fun.
You have Archimedes doing his wacky shit.
You have a cultural soup ripe for conflict: native Siculians restricted to the interior by more advanced settlers. Greek Sikeliotes, Punics, Italiotes, and Italics all converging on the shores.

>>96227284
No I just finished Vento Aureo

>>96247278
There are not enough spaghetti westerns set during the anti-brigand wars. Shit was Tex Willer.

>>96184649
You could have Pizza but yes, the origin is Neapolitan and nowadays is easier to get food from any region, albeit Neapolitans are like New Yorkers will always complain about Pizza that is not made by them.
In sicily they have a lof of great food but something similar to pizza is Pani Cunzatu.

>>96259143
>albeit Neapolitans are like New Yorkers will always complain about Pizza that is not made by them.
Somebody in Italy snapped and deep-fried Pizza, I understand. The Romans also have their distinct style.

>>96259230
There is also an array of delicious focaccias in Tuscany (which you can eat with lard, sausages, cheese, herbs, sort of tuscanian haggis) and similar but different stuff like the Torta al Testo in Umbria or the thin and dry Cartamusica in Sardinia.

There is so much more.