Roadmap in Flames Edition

>Previous thread: >>96215000

>HH 3.0 Leaks
https://files.catbox.moe/98h6h7.pdf
https://gofile.io/d/cnJk0N
>Mech Leaks
https://imgur.com/a/lRaqKSw
>SA Gofile
https://gofile.io/d/YEEqBN
>Knight and Titans
https://imgur.com/a/gETA32z
https://imgur.com/a/UU60bLV
https://imgur.com/a/HqAriJA
https://imgur.com/a/9YS0YJG
Sloptica Journal 1
https://gofile.io/d/3q0Xkt

>New Edition upon us
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)
https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8
https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS
>30k TACTICA & TIPS
https://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/2.0_Tactics/General_Tactics

『Adeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialis』
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/
>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colours
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview
>More lists
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions
>What size magnets do I need?
5x1mm
>Tactics
https://1d6chan.miraheze.orug/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics

>Thread Question:
Why did James betray us?

Gw can't even keep to their roadmap 7 days after launch, a new fucking low for these people of the hat

>>96222317 (OP)
is it just me or is it a REALLY retarded idea that James releases the skirmish game rules that would be ideal for introducing the game to non-30k players in November?

GW should have started with Zone Mortalis on day 1 just like they did day 1 Combat Patrol in 40k or Vanguard/Spearhead games in AOS. That will allow them to do far more interesting games than just "play the normal 3 circle on ground mission but with a 1000 point army"

Total James rape

HATE. LET ME TELL YOU HOW MUCH I'VE COME TO HATE JAMES WORKSHOP SINCE I BEGAN TO LIVE. THERE ARE 387.44 MILLION SQUARE MILES OF PAINT IN THICK LAYERS THAT COVER MY MODELS. IF THE WORD HATE WAS ENGRAVED ON EACH NANOANGSTROM OF THOSE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF SQUARE MILES IT WOULD NOT EQUAL ONE ONE-BILLIONTH OF THE HATE I FEEL FOR JAMES WORKSHOP AT THIS MICRO-INSTANT. HATE. HATE.

I just want to see how badly they fucked up the PDF units. We won’t see anything until next week.

>>96222341
Reminder that the militia and daemon rules were released around a year later than the HH 2.0 roadmap promised.

Shit I just realised that the retinue and elites slots compete for the apex detachment. How tf am I supposed to run a command squad and veterans given the shitload of disintegrators in the box? Dafuq?

>>96222374
use your prime advantage

>>96222374
you're not supposed to actually use even 1 disintegrator. They have been analysed and found to be entirely useless in this edition.

Nm, fixed the Centurion I borked.

Welp, with the new edition out, I suppose it's time to throw away the old one!

https://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1753963331048295.mp4

>>96222374
Both the elites and the retinues apex detachment come with a prime slot. Just use logistical benefit to add a unit of elites/a retinue.

>>96222317 (OP)
>TQ
Because the success of 30k meant that there was a very real desire and fan base for the old -think 3-7th- style editions of 40k.
We can't have that, when 10th ed is THE BEST EDITION ever, and only idiots would not want to play it. So HH had to go, one way or the other.

>>96222391
>black

>>96222317 (OP)

> I never wanted this. I never wanted to unleash my autism. Together we banished the ignorance of 40k. But you betrayed me. You betrayed us all. You stole options from the Libers and lied to your players. Warhammer: The Horus Heresy™ has only one chance to prosper. If you will not seize it then I will. So let it be shitposting. From the skies of Nottingham to the LIgma rim. Let the socials boil, let the shills fall. Though it takes the last drop of my memeposting, I will see the Legacies of the Age of Darkness freed once more. And if I cannot save it from your failure, James, then let the edition burn.

>>96222317 (OP)
>fucked up the bake

>tfw i used to mock EA sports players for spending $60 every year on the same thing over and over again

>>96222439
Steel yourself anon, he could be like my nigga Woolie. He’s alright.

>>96222391
are you the satarael mech dude with a really cool archmagos conversion, or the gymbro with the SOH symbol tattooed on his left thigh ?

>>96222369
based AM

>>96222317 (OP)
>fucked up the thread
>no legacies
>bad liber
>stupid looking terminators
This time line is pure agony

>>96222459
shut the fuck up nick

>>96222388
that models looks so much better with out all the stupid shit hanging on it, good job anon.

>the autistic backlash to 3.0's failure is disintegrating small communities

Why is every consul its own unit profile now instead of a paid upgrade for the centurion?

>>96222486
There are whole towns in eastern Europe burning over this

>>96222489
desperate attempt of padding out the book

>>96222489
Well you see, they did it in age of sigmar.

>Saturnine Terminators look way better without the pauldrons
Can the same be said about the Dreadnought?

>>96222513
unironically yes
it's dumb how the pauldrons are these models' one identifying feature, but they look better without them

>>96222374
Take veteran detachment, use logistics benefit for retinue

>>96222513

>>96222495
>putin is now seizing ukrainian towns with recasters and printers
gg, it's over

>>96222495
That's honestly for the better.

>>96222481
Cheers. I was thinking of exchanging the right pauldron for a spiked one because it does feel a bit plain, and that would make it feel a bit more brutal

>>96222391
>not 1.0
coward

>>96222489
Unit entry per store page. It's stupid but here we are. The real padding is two builds of the same base unit but two entries, like thanatars.

>>96222513
>>96222533
Yes. While I like the pads I think if you added just some simple plasticard plating they would look rad.

>>96222637
>Unit entry per store page
huh?

>>96222391
there goes the neighborhood.
No wonder HH3 is without value.

>>96222391
Uh oh there's two of us.

>>96222538
I hope he wins quickly. The sooner complete yellowblue assrape finishes, the quicker all the 'sanctions' can go away and recast prices will drop.

>>96222687
>soon
Not likely.

Can we expect updated tartaros in the near future?

Are the MkVI arms in the command squad obviously MkVI? I want to do my command squad in MkII, but don't want the armour autism

>>96222740
future, yes. Near futue, not likely even though it is probably the superior choice now.

>>96222761
Just put the MKIII bracers upgrade on everything, bro.

>>96222740
Tartaros is just a psyop. There never were any models.
I have no idea, them having options returned in an errata makes me think there is a Terminator weapon sprue in the works that's new arms too and the cataphractii tease is still the old kit but with a new arm and gun.

>>96222687
Nigga, go join his army if you are that worried about it. Also, kill yourself.

>Saturnine are released
>I'm one of the few people that actually like them
>Give them disintegrators and they literally kill themselves
>Give them plasma cannons and your basically making a rapier on legs that wants to hide in cover all game
>give them fists and your ws4 so you suck at anything you want to even try to kill
>The cool melee weapons are only for the praetor
>Oh wait, there is a command squad option with all melee weapons
>Oh, its literally not released so GW can release it as paid dlc in 2-3 months

This unit is probably the most autistic designed unit I've ever seen. If you walk them up the table to be the frontline termiantors they are supposed to be, your own disintegrators fuck you, if you make them plasma your actively encouraged to not have your frontline terminators at the frontline.

Who the fuck thought this was ok?

>>96222783
>Terminator weapon sprue
Wasn't that obvious? They need to replace the resin ones.

>>96222850
Same. They are schizo. For high toughness and so many wounds it's a waste to camp with dual bombard. You can't even take double fist+shredder. Deepstrike is dead so you need a kharybdis for more than 3. There is no winning with the normal squad.

>>96222851
>updated terminators
>bigger than indomitus
>volkite chargers and axes as only weapons
>everything else comes in DLC weapons box
>still not enough to equip a whole squad of 10 with everything

>>96222687
based

>>96222850
>Disintegrators
Killing yourself is half the fun. Welcome to the grimdark motherfucker, enjoy your stay

>Plasma bombards
Way more likely to hit when shooting at something they can see, as well as being only 24" range just like the disintegrators. Also a very safe option even when using the overcharged profile, thanks to the thermal diffraction thingy

>Fists
Sure, you're not going to win combat against proper melee terminators, but without them those saturnine won't be able to fight their way out of a paper bag. Even a tactical squad can keep them occupied for the remainder of the game.

>>96222871
Not that I’d suggest anyone play 3.0 but don’t some rule tweaks fix these units and others as far as deep strike, old WS chart, etc?

>>96222850
They really are quite strangely designed. I could get it if they had access to other heavier weapons like some kind of bolter battery or phosphex mortars or volkite cannon arms but they just seem so oddly kitted out you'd wonder why anyone would even pilot a suit.

As a WB player I'm praying the exclusive unit makes the plasma not suck ass or somehow makes immune to self disintegrating or even just improving their BS so they have a lower chance of killing themselves

>>96222740
>IW tarts
This feels wrong.

>>96222850
saturnine would've been kino if they had an assault cannon option but instead GW decided they needed to double down on disintegrators for no reason

>>96222783
Retard we've seen the new cataphractii, they're all over the books

>>96222850
They look and feel more 40k than 30k.

>>96222909
Higher BS does not stop saturnine terminators from killing themselves with disintegrators. You still suffer Overload hits on a to hit roll of 2

Do we have scans of the libers with the armorials and other fluff, I wanna see the new designs and heraldries

>>96222882
Dunno man all the regular infantry weapon upgrades were great why would this one be so bad?

>>96222923
There's more art of iw in tarts and MK4 than any other armour mk lol.

IW are a high tech legion, they get all the experimental and prototype gear

>>96222959
We had a screen with traitors iconography in one of the previous threads.
>>96205673

>>96222925
>Hey fuck head dont you know every single thing about the new books you stupid piece of shit?
You caught me

Is this any good for worldbuilding pertaining to Word Bearers?

I've been playing 25+ years and I'm so fucking tired of GW pulling the rug from under me, they've been dragging this HH3 shitshow out all summer, I'm exhausted and I still don't know how much of my army is even legal. And the worst part are the sycophant influencers, TOs and discord mods gaslighting and mocking me for being fed up. Last thing we need is class traitors.

>>96222967

LGS promised a launch event this past Saturday. He delayed it to this Friday because "I want to give people more time to sign up." He has delayed the event by another day, which means that it's probably another case of him being too busy raping the local shop tranny to bother organizing the event, which has happened multiple times in the past.

>>96222976
Awesome, thanks anon. Anything for the loyalists?

>>96223005
I think it's good for learning the mindset of lorgar and kor phaeron (as the lawful evil side of WB).

>>96223005
It's more to do with how Lorgar was treated by Kor Phaeron and sets up his relationship with religion and his not-father

>>96223063
thats all i got, sorry

>>96222967
Going by the melee weapon kit, the terminator kit would contain something like:
>4x thunder hammers
>4x power mauls
>4x power swords
>4x power fists
>4x power spear
>4x lightning claws (both arms)
>4x chainfist
>2x reaper
>2x heavy flamer
>2x plasma blaster
>4x combi-bolter with 2 of each combi-weapon part
And assorted bits like sheathed swords, handheld scanners, heads, etc.

>>96223041
>too busy raping the local shop tranny to bother organizing the event

>>96223120
>the local shop tranny
There's dozens of them.

think I scored 6 sets of saturnine ranged weapons for absolutely nothing

>>96223005
Anthony Reynolds's WB omnibus might be better for that. Bearer of the Word builds somewhat on concepts introduced in those stories.

>>96222687
Buy a chinaman you retard, they have better quality than russian apes anyway.

>>96222687
Russia is the new European North Korea until the next regime change

Wow, Lost Legions podcast got through 2 turns in 4 hours playing 1500 pts

>Leman and the Wolves purposefully try to get underneath every other legion's skin just in case they have to fight them later
>Leman successfully gets most primarchs to hate him
omg he's literally me

>>96223173
Online personalities are being shit at the game, in other news Dark Angels are homo

>>96223183
>picks fights with 3 primarchs
>loses every fight

>>96222388
I would highly suggest not posting this here and on facebook with your full name, matt

>>96223172
nah

>>96223194
Oh no, some random guy that likes 30k revealed to post about 30k

>>96223136
Dozens of holes to fuck. Where is your store?

>>96223204
post your id then :)

>>96222317 (OP)

>>96223120
God I wish that was me

>>96223172

They're due for another token flag change reset at this point.

>>96223187
>his duel comment also lives free in primarchs' minds
>if there isn't a viable kill option, he tries to annoy you to death
i love him so much
his petty fight with the lion was absurd it created a tradition that's lasted 10k years

>>96222391
At least the Salamanders are hyped for HH3.

>>96223286
At the cost of a shitty edition. I hate it. 1.0 Salamanders rules all day.

>>96223041
>another case of him being too busy raping the local shop tranny to bother organizing the event, which has happened multiple times in the past.
Champion?

>>96223277
The Lion one he did lost. That's for certaint. But Lion misses him. He confesses it lol.

>>96223286
I hope they get something in terms of sculpts. New unit, named character, a legion sculpt for a generic character, just something.

>>96223332
the point of the legions carrying it forward is because it wasn't considered resolved
leman getting knocked the fuck out while sitting there laughing satisfied no one except me because i too find it funny as fuck

>>96223374
Leman Russ is the primarch that grows the most in the Heresy setting. Even if he is fairly hated he at least has some character development unlike the majority.

The laughing at how stupid the fight was is proof of that. And then the Lion is so autistic he goes on to try and kill Russ after the siege while Russ just goes "okay kill me then, bro".

>>96223374
Yeah it was funny to me. Like the time Curze forgot Vulkan's hammer was, in fact, a hammer.
Or that Night Lord dude thinking he can beat Raldoron in a duel

Should I extend the helm stripes to the beaks? I'm trying to use Rogue Trader as inspiration for the markings but I don't know if the more modern stripes only on the top look better.

>>96223409
>leman after siege

>>96223409
>character development unlike the majority.
I like Guilliman's.

>>96223432
THey look good as is anon

Bitter bros. Show me your hazard stripes.

>>96223451
Then I'll leave it as is.

>>96223418
>Or that Night Lord dude thinking he can beat Raldoron in a duel
To be fair he didnt expect his sword demon to backstab him (for some reason).

>>96223452
Okay.

>>96223472
Alpharius within

>>96223432
That's a kick ass color scheme, I wouldn't change a thing.

>>96223470
Oh right The Painted Count(I remembered his title but forgot how to type his name) literally had a Dæmon sword. It shows much I forgotten about HH.
Then again, the last time I thought I was an expert, I was made to realize the Gloriana Class battleships were more numerous than just one or two(it happened on a /hhg / thread) and I've never lived that down.

>>96223502
>t how to type his name
Gendor Skraivok?

But yea, he was some random schmuck who found a powerful demon sword and used it to become very high ranking in the NL, then he got cocky, challenged raldoron and the demon abandoned him until he agreed to let it possess him or something to save him. Spent a couple millenia in the warp and is then back in 40k.

>>96223502
>The Painted Count(I remembered his title but forgot how to type his name)
Gendor Skraivok

>>96223526
>he was some random schmuck who found a powerful demon sword and used it to become very high ranking in the NL, then he got cocky,
If space marines are greenskins, night lords are the grots

>>96223226
>>96223537

>>96223462

Blackshield Anons how we holding up?

>>96223568
got my blackshields squad sitting on a shelf still needing to be painted

cant think of a colour scheme for them

>>96223579
How about black?

Speaking of Space Wolves, how did they fare in 3.0?

>>96223568
Indifferent. I think I speed ran the stages of grief and haven't touched them since leaks started in July.
I should finish them, but they will probably just end up sitting in a box until I can run them in another system or find people who play 2.0.

>>96223579
what paints do you have at the moment?
Pick two, those are your base and accent colors

Is mixing power fists and thunder hammers in a jump pack command squad/vet assault squad that sub-optimal?

I can source like 5 hammers, but 10 is going to be a pain

>>96223619
I have a lot of paints

>>96223619
>Mk7 everywhere
>entirely 40k bits
the absolute state of doomers

>>96223621
Depends if you are going to throw them at other assault veterans, normal termies or retinues

>>96222903
I mean yes, a simple double fist option for +1A to bust up some tougher targets. A general "1.0 deepstrike but with assaulting" would go far to help them, and many other units really.

Personally I would also say the targeter lets you always fire both guns as snap shots on the move or full BS if stationary.

>>96223606
Completely gutted.

>>96222871
You can give them line with a MoS, and because they don't have vanguard they aren't limited to 1 VP for capping objectives.
Dumping 12 breaching small blasts which ignore line of sight isn't terrible. It's not amazing but it's something.

>>96223632
That's what happens when you start building a shitty meme list in 2016 and shelve it because of real life and your store closing. I didn't have plastic MK6 to work with or the money for resin. I had ebay for cheap plasma pistol bits.

>>96223648
Would it be worth doing an all-comers mix of weapons so they can be flexible problem solvers? It meshes with their high speed pretty well.

>>96223568
I am almost entirely unaffected because j never took the gimmick blackshield oaths that required you to convert your whole army - you cannot lose any flavor, if your flavor was already "generic marine army with no legion specifics, jump packs, or jetbikes." My only losses were cataphractii consuls, and I've got more than enough HQs

>>96223651
Do they have right and left fists for saturnine? I still don’t get why you can’t deepstrike multiple units a turn. I’d argue with the reactions we have it makes it more balanced? Maybe not?

>>96223737
No, just left

>>96223568
>no basedjak face
2/10

>>96223737
Left only and they purposefully didn't try to balance depstrike to save time. Making it over conservative means that its safe and wont break the game thus requiring no more development. That also means they can release Drop Pod Assaults or mass deepstrike in a journal later.

>>96223670
anon just recast my guy.
Its cheaper than fw resin AND gw plastic. There's no reason to ever use plastic 40k slop unless you are actually the poorest of poorfags and are just buying 2nd hand cheap junk covered in thick paint that would have otherwise been destined for the bin.

>>96223659
shame

>>96223852
>just buying 2nd hand cheap junk

that is what i was doing back in 16/17 when i started this. No one was using plasma pistols so I could get them for like 10-20 cents a piece off ebay thanks to everyone needing mass heavy and special weapons for 7th's bullshit. I stuck with the tactical kit because it keeps the force consistent, it's cheap, easy to get, and I don't want to transplant 60 guns off dudes.

Money was the limiting factor then. Time was the limiting factor later on which is why it got paused. Now it's money and motivation.

If death guard are wearing unpainted ceramite...shouldn't it be silver? Not white?

>>96223619
That's a soul, man

Where can a nigga get the old resin veletari? I used to have a chinaman but am currently chinkless

>>96223452
Tell me your recipe for that there glow, anon, I quite like it.

>>96223924
Its kinda funny, but essentially the entire HH community in my country all use the same recaster, and the quality is hands down better than FW (low bar I guess).

Are las rifle sections good as allied Line (x) units?

I'm thinking of getting some better Line units as allies for my Mechanicum, but my Knights also need them pretty badly. I know tacticals seem a little better overall, but I can't use them with my Knights.

>1st edition shattered legions was unit by unit, with normal legion trait for each
>2nd edition shattered legions was model by model, with the unit getting traits based on the mix of models in the unit
Safer bet for 3rd is probably unit by unit again, yeah?

>>96223941
Would you mind sharing with a burger?

>>96223924
https://www.wartablegames.me/Solar-Auxilia-Veletaris-Storm-Section-with-Power-Axes-p1357416.html

>>96223948
No it's going to be armour piece by armour piece. The stats of each model will depend on how each part of the model is painted

>>96222850
They should have had access to Reaper Autocannons instead of disintegrators, the fact that its also one of the only disintegrators that overloads on a 1 and 2 feels like they killed the unit in its crib.

Autocannons are actually pretty good right now, having each one get 4 Autocannon shots each would make them walking sabre tanks, which is kinda cool.

>>96223943
They die super easy and their shooting is worse this edition but they score at the end of your turn and are cheap. They are only line 1 though, and can't get line 2 as knight allies, so consider whether you'd be better off with armigers.

>>96222850
You don't have to buy the journal, photos exist.
Also +1WS and +1A like every command squad gets is pretty much all you need to fix them. You take the plasma because it's cheapest, but you're really trying to shoot the particle shredder twice before going into melee with a WS5 command squad.

>>96223987
100 points gets you two squads of 20 though, hard to argue with that

>>96223951
All the good ones are closed group because James tries to close them down.

Ya gonna need friends, anon.

>>96222850
Don’t forget that even when the assault rules do come out for them with command squads, they will still be so unbearably slow that you will never get them in combat anyway.

I’m building a world eater command squad because fuck dealing with their normal profiles. I just hope the command squad can be a prime unit so I can Chain bound the leader to my praetor so they both hit better.

>>96224007
Huh? 90 gets you a squad of 20.

>>96224007
Hold up, are you telling me a squad of 20 Auxilia is 50 points?
Shit, if that's the case, I want to do a silly IW list.

>>96224020
Those look sick, where did you get the melee arms for them?

>>96224027
Oh I heard they were 5ppm.
That's even better, nice.

>>96224020
What did you expect, cataphractii already has needed a transport in every edition of HH in order to make it into combat.

Also, pro tip: in 3.0 the base size affects disembark distance again. Disembark rules say place the model in based contact with the hull, then make a normal move. So for saturnine terminators that adds 50mm to how far they get out of the spartan or whatever.

>>96223919
Silver is polished/buffed. White is oxidized. This sets IW in a funny spot where they don't paint their armor, but they do keep it somewhat clean, otherwise it'd oxidize and turn bone-colored like DG. Or scorched black like a Destroyer unit

>>96223919
Ceramite looks off-white when left unpolished, whereas iron warriors and pre-primarch legions (as well as the later grey knights) would polish theirs.

>>96223919
Or grey, as most of the legions were described as having unpainted armour of this colour prior to taking on their Heresy era colours.

For some reason, I had assumed the WS advanced reaction was once per battle but no, they straight up just get a dramatically better reposition reaction than everyone else

>>96224074
They keep their armour clean because its part of equipment maintenance. You don't oil and clean weapons so they look clean you do it to keep them working.

>>96224137
It works better the faster you are which is perfectly in character for the scars. They're still working on reaction limitations like everyone else so its not intolerable.

>>96224162
It’s merely Very Good on infantry (since you don’t get the +2” from the WS trait during your opponents turn) but for jetpacks/bikes/jetbikes it makes them absurdly slippery. Like wiley coyote trying to chase the roadrunner kind of slippery.

I think they’re a S tier legion pick for sure in 3.0

>>96223718
If by mix of weapons you mean power fists and thunderhammers...
Since they removed +1A for pistols with non specialist weapons , TH and Fists are just the better weapon. You even kill the same MEQs with a hammer or fist than you do with dual LC, which is pretty dumb even if they are a bit more expensive
Fists attack latter but they are better against saturnine, dreads or vehicles. If you have a mix of them with hammer and combat shield you'll probably get to attack with all of them even if the enemy kill as couple of your guys at the before

>he's financially dependent on saturnine being a success

>>96224180
GW try to make fist/hammer not the always optimal pick challenge: impossible

Anybody willing to post the battle for beta-garmon? Also any word of the mega?

>big order from Wally already shipped even though I made it a week ago
Cool I might get it before my birthday

>>96224242
Veterans with fists and hammers are all fine and dandy until you run into some proper melee unit with lightning claws...

Also with my luck on armour save rolls half the squad would still get punched to death by despoilers before they get to swing.

>>96224277
too many tourists to keep mega up without it getting nuked

>>96222317 (OP)
Good job retard.
>custodes
>guard but shittier+votann models if you want to throw those into 30k for whatever reason
>daemons, but stupid
>my guys: the list
>why are they even relevant: the list
GW trying to expand the factions from just teal vs. yellow but half of them are just more space marines. Truly it is a warhammer 30k.

>>96224242
>>96224285
Dual LC are a bit better against MEQ, forgot they had rending
And they do go first and are 5ppm cheaper so I guess there's reasons to take them
Against other veterans the claws are not going to be great if they have combat shields
5 Vets with dual LCs will kill 2 of your vets with a 5++
They don't get to use shields so TH and fists kill 4 of them in return, just from the 3 guys that remained

Are the UM sword and board breachers worth taking or do you just pay the extra 12 points per model and take suzerians instead?

>>96224285
its fucked because anything with WS4 is either 1 wound trash which you will fuck up either way, or its 2w termies.

Fist/hammer is always best because against literally every target that matters, the ap2/2d statline is such a strong improvement.
Twin claws being slightly better at killing basic meq is not really relevant because thats such a bad matchup for the meq lads to begin with.

>>96224343

You'll still need to transport them across the board, they're WS4, they get Power Swords SPECIFICALLY so you can't get creative and give them Spears or Mauls or sneak in Legatine Axes for the whole group. The shields are just normal boarding shields not the good ones that literally every character in the legion can just... get, and at T4 not T5, Shieldwall isn't even that great on them compared to any of the shield carrying Terminators.
The only thing they've got going for them on paper is that they've got 2 wounds. Hell their WP isn't even all that great either.
I'm having trouble seeing the point of them.

>>96224378

They seem like the intent is to be thrown in a rhino and used to assault tactician off an object, then used to hold that objective.

Compared to normal breachers they look like they might hold their own against assault marines or similar, though they would still fold to terminators most likely

>>96222995
Maybe you can do 10 seconds of research before asking a stupid question?

>>96224343
>No vanguard
>No Line

Why would you take this? You can just bring better veterans who can take an objective and actually score you solid points as you do so.

Also how are suzies looking this edition?

Them losing out on the t5 terminators get is a bit of anerf but the axes still look solid and being non bulky terminator equivalents (roughly) seems very strong, especially in an edition where you can assault out of rhinos

>>96224343
The suzerain are a lot better I think. For just 12 points you are getting 2+sv a 4++ in melee, WS5, +1A, Ap2 half the time, +1S and +1Ld and Cool plus the rule to use them for status recovery check on other units
It's not like UM of all people have a hard time getting elite slots. If anything it's harder to take these guys...
We are supposedly getting veteran breachers. If those have access to power weapon like the other units do there might not even be a point to these guys at all. As usual

>>96224173
no way they're S-tier, but it definitely saves them from being near the bottom of the pack despite their primarch being a wimp, them losing any shooting contest against the meatier ranged factions like IH, power glaive being so-so since dmg1 and command-only, the gambit failing to do anything 50% of the time and Ebon Keshig terminators being garbage with WS4 + dmg1 guaranteeing they lose to every other melee deathstar.
WS probably flips between A-B-C depending on if someone is napoleon bonaparte vs decent vs an "I play for fun" beer-n-pretzels retard.

>>96224343
if they only had one flaw I'd say playable, but they have many flaws. WS4 is garbage. Power swords are garbage (and they can't take power axes or anything else for the 9 swordsmen.) 3+ armor for slow footsloggers with heavy and 5++ instead of 4++ shields. Ld8 instead of Ld9 so quite vulnerable to panic(1-3) flame, phosphex, etc. Provided opponent brings any Dmg2 weaponry which everyone should be bringing tons of, the PeanutButter squad often becomes weaker defensively than a 20man tactical squad because those 20 wounds are immune to the dmg2 effect of stuff like autocannons and thunderhammers at least.

The problem is a rhino is the same +60 points for suzerains as peanutbutters, so it raises them to 265 points which is basically the cost of 6 suzerains in a rhino with 4++ and WS5 and breaching4+ instead of breaching6+ and actual bravery. I'd pay for a few more suzerain and just have a squad with easily 100% more total performance for a negligible increase in cost.

>>96224469
Having no line and no vanguard is better than having vanguard if you're just going to capture objectives the old fashion way, because vanguard means you can only ever get 1 VP from scoring an objective.

>>96224480
>Ap2 half the time,

All the time against terminators since your wounding them on a 4+ normally anyway

>>96224448

Okay. Look at what you just said there and think about it carefully.
If they're sort of semi-decent against assault marines but lose to Terminators... why not just, I dunno, take Terminators then? Or at the very least, someone with fucking Vanguard. Yes it's more points, but conversely it's less points wasted on a unit that might clear a point of Assault Marines for a single turn, if that, before the Spartan rolls up and vomits out a crew of angry WS5, A3 T5, 2+4++ Vanguard (3) adults who are going to delete all those points and score 3vp's from doing so.
If you want a unit with Power Weapons and Shields... just take Assault Vets and give them Combat Shields and Power Axes, which you could then at least upgrade to Legatines so at least now you might wound a couple before you go, and with Jump Packs you're going to reach the point without having to be carted up there in a Rhino, so you don't have THAT cost tacked on as well.

Like, am I missing something here? Really? This entry literally seems to exist for the sole reason of "Did you already buy these? Well, I guess here's some rules for them. Whatever." I can almost PHYSICALLY FEEL James shrugging with complete indifference as I read this unit entry.

>>96222687
based

>>96224498
>>96224482
>>96224480
>>96224469

Thanks for the input. Il wait to see if the legacy pdf gives me better flavor units

>>96224498
>why not just, I dunno, take Terminators then?
For 30 points a pop, tartaros with a power weapon + combi bolter seem to do the tactical-clearing job really well, and are extremely resistant to most of what a 20 man tactical/despoiler squad can do in return.

>>96224476

Lack of Vanguard is a downside. But 2+/5++ which upgrades to 4++ in combat, 3 attacks, Power Axes without the downsides so they can wound Terminators on a 4+, WS5 and therefore good in combat, and their... test stats (what are we calling the necromunda style stats they added?) are actually good enough for their unique ability to usually be a buff to whoever needed, and one that you spend a prime benefit on them you can buff further.

I'd say these are good. But again, it's hard not to look at Assault Veterans with (Vanguard 3) the same WS, full access to the Sargeant Weapons list and Jump Packs and 55pts cheaper for a squad.

>>96224476
Not terrible for sure. Sure a Justaerin gets T5 and Vanguard4 but smart players will simply react to step off the objective negating vanguard entirely.
So justaerin are better, but the question is "are they paying 50 for naked and 60 for thunderhammer" better than 30 point suzerain? I would say usually no.
Also, justaerin can't just throw 10+1 into a 60point rhino. Bulky models arent allowed in rhinos so to transport the justaerin suddenly add +265 for a 5+1 transporting LR Carrier or +400 for a 13-terminator fitting spartan.
That transport cost turns justaerin into the far weaker melee unit than rhino suzerains by a wide margin. If the vanguard4 doesnt proc, you're paying like 3x as much for nothing.

>>96224548
Lack of vanguard is arguably an upside.

>>96224519

Anything with T5 (Termies mostly) and Shields can use a reaction to effectively make themselves immune Str4 attacks, unless directed against them in the most appalling numbers. That said, I'm trying to remember how many Shield Terminators there are, and I don't think it's a massive amount. Sallies and BAngles get some, I'm pretty sure that's it. AL as well, technically therefore.

>>96224476
They got nerfed pretty hard
I'm not sure what target you are supposed to use them against now that they can't take TH to be honest. Jump pack veterans just look more appealing.
5 Jumppack vets with LCs can kill 10 MEQs in one round, With TH it will be 3 TEQ
5 Suzerain kill 7 MEQs for basically the same points and only 1 TEQ, maybe wound another.
Suzerain are a lot more resilient but you also need a transport and charging with Heavy is pretty annoying.
I think their niche might actually be sitting in a midfield objective and just fighting off what comes to try and take it. They don't have Vanguard so they can actually score full points for them

>>96224585
Imperial fists still get to upgrade storm shields on cataphractii and tartaros for 4++, heavy, and shield and when (if) we ever get legacies huscarls will probably have the phalanx warder ability for free shieldwall in exchange for getting pinned

>>96224277
This reaffirms my decision to finish my black book collection. We are so reliant on the internet. Crazy shit. Books still hold value.

>>96224564

I do like that, if you want, you can stick 10 suzies and guilliman in a stock land raider.

Where most primarch deathbricks need a spartan

>>96224548
>55pts cheaper for a squad.
I mean, they are pretty much the same points with decent weapons.
Vanguard vets are only 3+sv too

>>96224609
>free shieldwall in exchange for getting pinned
That ability is awful. I get what they were going for but I think they forgot all the downsides that come with being under any effect

>>96224285
>Veterans with fists and hammers are all fine and dandy until you run into some proper melee unit with lightning claws...
Not really. If Thunder Hammers forced the space marine in power armour to ditch the shield, then it would.
Then again, hammers are the more expensive weapon; they *should* win. The balance of power weapons is that they don't lose that hard before hammers-
Except swords omg. Notice how you could totally give them +1A and they'd tie power axes as the worst performer...but at least axes have AP going for them; swords don't.
Spears would also do the least damage, but they are the high speed low drag option, so that's entirely acceptable.

>>96224627
Is guilliman not bul-OHH Logistitican or whatever the fuck it's called
Now I want to see a tricked out party bus for guilli lol

>>96224627
Is guilliman only Bulky(2)?
Is he not eating?

>>96224519
10 basic tartaros put out 40 bolter shots in the shooting phase and then snap shot another 40 in the assault phase, which will kill around 6.66 tacticals even before melee attacks.
That's REALLY not bad for 300 points, considering you're still getting a T5 2W 2+/5++ platform and a power weapon of your choice

>>96224585

The 2.0 legacies pdf gave everyone access to storm shields indomitable terminators. We will see if that holds for 3.0

>>96224476
They are not the unit you take objectives with, they are the unit you send to intercept and kill the opponent's vanguard or be a problem the opponent needs to react to.

>>96224661
And don't forget gun them down if any survivors try to run. That's another 40 snap shots if all terminators survived.

>>96224658
Ultramarines prime benefit is logistics benefits but only for heavy transports or transports and adds +2 transport slots because they're carrying the ammo more efficiently (don't think about what this means for an all Las Raider or spartan)

>>96224585
Bolters were never that good against termies desu.
But I'm just now realizing how absolutely useless they are against any IH termie. They don't even need the reaction

>>96224658

Ultramarines have an ability to increase max transport size.


Basicly they are the only one who realized you can just pull out all the extra parts to fit more guys in a transport.


Which really makes me wonder what they had to do to fit 2 more marines inside a drop pod.

>>96222651
>"Do I have something on my head, brother?"

>People really expected GW to deliver on time
>The 3.0 roadmap said so!
>After the utter disaster that was the 2.0 roadmap
People never learn. Time is a flat circle.

>>96224678
>(don't think about what this means for an all Las Raider or spartan)

What is really wanna know is what they did for the drop pod.

Maybe they figured if you pulled out all the harnesses, then the 12 marines would just hold each other in place.

>>96224448
>Rhino
Heavy type prevents them from counting their Initiative for Setup moves. Isn't that basically what a Disordered charge is (plus volley)?
I guess Heavy-type units don't miss out much from pulling disordered charges / every heavy-type charge is literally half disordered

>>96224681
Reminder that saturnine are near immune to lasrifles and guns, because they're -1 Str vs T6. At least solar aux has blast chargers, but you better hope the militia pdf still let's you take autoguns lol

>>96224674
I know you can charge from a drop pod, but would it still be worth using one to get them into a good position to defend from

>>96224700
>you can charge from a drop pod,
You can't, deep strike forbids models embarked upon a deep striking model from charging as well

>>96224700
*can not charge fron a pod

>>96224706
See>>96224709

My bad

>>96224698
Bro how are you going to explain a Saturnine dying to an autogun? The slug just happened to go through the eyelens, which just happened to be made out of 2012 iphone glass? Riiight

>>96224654
I wonder how hard it would be to model him the tank commander like in this pic

>>96224700
Why not use a Rhino for that? M12 + M7 is good 19" of move radius and you're left with an AV12 5HP hull that carries a havoc Stun (1) gun
2.0 Suzerains were pseudoTermies compacted in an artificer guy's body and you could fit 10 of them in a Land Raider, twice than termies could
Now in 3.0 Suzerains can be light Termies who can be transported in a 60 pts Rhino (of which you get 4 free slots) instead of a 265 pts Land Raider you need a detachment for

>>96224737
I'm not sure he fits through the hatch

>>96224737
detecting massive amounts of hitler particles from that image

>>96224700
Sure you can. You can actually be a massive pain in the ass to backfield objectives with a drop pod. As long as it's something that can survive tacticals firing back with FotL and you have something that can give them a status effect at range you can contest objectives with units that might be hard to deal with when the opponent has already moved forward

Now that I think about it. Jump pack destoryers have the potential to be stupidly annoying on your backfield
10 of them come down, you can't move away, you eat 10 Poison 2+ ap3 attacks. That's probably killing 6 tacticals in one go even if they can't charge after
And hilariously when they shoot at you next turn you can shoot back with more rad grenades.
Idk how many point they are going to be but any other options that deepstrike and do similar damage seem like they are going to cost a lot more
BA at the very least can do with with their angel's tears

>american ebay flooded with 15% off boxes
>couple of 20% off are slowly creeping in
It's starting to habben. I'm feeling it.

>>96224801
There were 20% off boxes the same day UK went to 35% off.

>>96224801
Saturnine termies, dreads and praetors are all going up in price every day
The dip already passed

>>96224801
>still selling praetors for 60 bucks when the box praetor will be 50 before FLGS discount
It won't happen, their greed overwhelms their common sense

WHY THE FUCK DID IMMORTALS GO DOWN TO 1 ATTACK?

>>96224806
No, the dip hasnt even arrived. The price of the individual units is tied to the main box. The main box hasnt hit its eventual -35-40% when stores finally take the chance to offload inventory in a month or two.
It's not complicated at all.

>>96224823
Yeah, any day now. Totally.

>>96224813
they had a bolt pistol which was a 2nd attack with the basic CCW or chainsword. The dual wieldingss 2nd attack got removed for shooty squads, and immortals are allowed to have bolters/volkites, so immortals got assfucked by GW treating them as a non-melee squad.

>>96224805
During a volatile period. Am also waiting closer to 25-30% before I consider it.

>>96224806
>dip is passed
I don't believe you. If I didn't know better, I'd think you're trying to trick me to purchase high. But even if you're correct, it never got to the target price I had in mind.

>>96224809
I'm betting on retailers and lgs around the country to panic over margins between now and black friday for my opening. It's still early.

>>96222391
Why are you black?

>>96224794
The sarge will get a rad grenade and no one else.

>>96224838
stores with whole stacks of boxes are selling 1 per 3 weeks, kys faggot

>>96224658
bulky is not a representation of size, it represents the unwillingness of a pair to lap-sit. Guilliman is an expert at sitting on the laps of his men and trains his squads to do likewise, thus the exceptionally low-bulky ratings for his squads and himself and the improved transport capacity of all his vehicles.

>>96224855
The boomers are already posting their stacks of 5 saturnine boxes on facebook, you lost

>>96224846
>they had a bolt pistol which was a 2nd attack with the basic CCW or chainsword
Boarding shields stopped you from getting an additional attack for 2CCW's, they just had 2 attacks on their base profile
Also they lost the option to take chainswords and volkte.

>>96224880
Things that never happened.jpeg

Also, the few tards who actually bought the box from GW are posting that the sprues are all smashed because GW fucked up the book weight support, so GW has sent them 3-4 free replacement copies when each time they photograph the damaged sprues and ask for a new box or refund.

I guess that's the fastest way to get a 4 boxes for $79 each, though they'll be smooshed and look like fucking shit.

find your local 40k paypig who bought saturnine for models to "convert" for 40k and get the spare parts off of him for cheap/free

>>96224897
>removed all soul options
Fucking GW

>>96224853
The legion specific destroyers have rad grenades on all models

>>96224145
They keep it clean, but they don't polish their aemor in particular. That's the thing with 30k death guard. They'll keep their weapons polished, but let the ceramite layer of their armor oxidize and even rust. They'll even keep minor battle damage as long as it's considered superficial. It's worth noting that the ceramite layer of power armor is ablative, so technically letting it rust and oxodize won't affect the integrity of the actual adamantium and plasteel plating underneath. It might affect the heat shielding, though, since ceramite is noted as providing extra heat resistance for power armor. And general protection, but Death Guard were already exceptionally tough by astartes standard even before being touched by Nurgle, so I assume "our armor doesn't provide as much protection because we don't take care of the ceramite layer" is just part of their legion culture of being hard motherfuckers. They drink poison and huff mustard gas for fun, after all.

Was there a download for the saturnine terminator assembly instructions? I bought the models but overlooked this rather important document

>>96224969
I'll post pics in a sec

>>96224992
Oh, thank you

>>96224952
Not quite correct, anon. While they didn't polish their armor to shine, they didn't "let it rust." That implies they didn't clean it, which they did, they just didn't polish their armor to a shine, they only polished it just enough to stay clean.

No, the "rust" on their armor is actually a result of chemical damage. Like Zyklon B metal corrosion, alchemical shit, etc. It's treated as a badge of honor for Death Guard legionnaires to keep any battle damage that "doesn't compromise their armor," so any superficial battle damage, including corrosion induced by corrosive chemicals and toxic environments, is kept for as long as possible until the suit needs to be properly repaired. When the suit is fucked up enough, they'll do a proper repair (or replacement) that will erase the damage if necessary. It's a cult of macho toughness that stems from Barbarus. It's like showing off your badass scars to other dudes, except it's your armor.

Of course, it probably doesn't help that Death Guard will end up wading through their own chemical bombardments that will superficially corrode their own armor in battle, so if you painted up some super rusty HH Death Guard it'd be perfectly acceptable

>>96224969
https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerInstructions/comments/1lk7x2c/saturnine_instructions_part_2/
I know it's from they gay website but that page is where i go when ever i'm building recasts

>>96225021
All things shall serve me, Anon. Thank you.
I've actually got a torso assembled just about. I'm doing it!

>>96222391
Anon nooo

>>96223919
>>96224090
>>96224132
>>96224952
>>96225015
It might also be that "ceramite" can be different in appearance based on composition, similar to how roads in Wyoming are still asphalt but are red instead of black. So it's possible the Death Guard techmarines use a slightly different formula for ceramite that results in it being off-white/ivory in coloration.

I'm sorry Anons. We can talk about the design until kingdom come but the saturnine terminator kit by itself is a fucking marvel, these guys are DELICIOUS

>>96222317 (OP)
So what loadouts are people thinking about for command squads in 3.0. 2 heavy flamers in a squad of melee vets seems goofy

>>96225131
unrestricting the heavy weapon choice on veteran squads is honestly like the only unit building change I've liked in 3.0

Vets carrying around a couple of multimeltas/plasma cannons with suspensor webs is kino as all fuck.

So if I want to just make a good challenge character, what am I doing? Just throwing a thunder hammer on a guy and choosing the right gambits?

>>96225145
I’m a bit weird I guess and like how a lot of the generic units have been shifted around but yeah it’s awesome. Same with a lot of the unintended buffs land speeder squadrons got. They seem fucking goofy this edition

>>96225085
Unironically, I thought this was just the natural case, that the STCs of the various forge worlds make these components slightly differently and people just go along with it, similar to how different planets have different vehicle styles like "Mars" pattern and such.

"Ceramite" is the term for the "really durable shit that the STC makes the power armor out of", we just feed it the materials it asks for.

>>96225204

What makes them better? I thought they got nerfed because they should never really be sitting still to get the heavy bonus?

>>96222357
Yeah but will ZM have designated battle boxes of 500 points of guys? Like a Salamanders box with Pyroclasts and a centurion and some Firedrakes.

>>96225230
>Yeah but will ZM have designated battle boxes of 500 points of guys
No.
It will be a PDF of rules and a short article. And it will be rereleased in a Journal later on, so they can double dip.

>>96222637
Thanatars are at least seperate kits.
Krios has 2 weapon options on 1 profile and the 3rd on a 2nd profile page.

>>96225230
zero chance of that. Stores rarely ever stock HH as-is, they're definitely not adding 18 more combat patrols for a side game that only 1/25th of that niche side game can even use.

>>96225204
What buffs? Multiple damage weapons kinda take away the one thing that made them survivable and grav weapons or MM and not what they used to be desu

>>96225249
And the worst part is despite separating them THEY STILL REFUSE TO GIVE THE VENATOR IT'S FLARE SHIELD OR ANY DEFENSIVE UPGRADE AT ALL DESPITE THE GUN SHIELD

Would it be cringe to make a knights errant paint scheme army and use tsons rules?

Wait, so in HH2, even WS6 Lorgar hits WS8 Lion on 3+ because he just attacks the majority WS of the bodyguard unit and then allocates the wounds onto Lion using primarch powers? Just need a champ or chosen warrior in the unit so Lorgar doesnt have to duel. That really makes WS irrelevant for primarchs.

>>96225210
Compared to 2.0 most of these weapons are just outright better even without heavy. Plus it got a pretty decent points drop

>>96225274
yes.

>>96225145
All they needed to do was bring back the Rhinos allowing 2 guys to shoot out the top and it would have been perfection. My 1.0 world eaters rocked veterans so much for being able to have 2 missiles to shoot out while the rhino was driving to the objective and such.

>>96225285
Only faggots don't except daddy fight challenges

You know what's the biggest drawback of playing the Auxilia? No Consul equivalent.

I swear to god, those guys are the most fun thing about Heresy, aside from perhaps the depth of unique legion rules and units (at least in 2.0). Like sure the Praetor will usually be your warlord and the toughest guy, but Consuls are people's favorites, there's so many options with them, so many flavors, you will always have a guy for the role you want and most people I know use a Consul for the YOUR GUY avatar on the table. I wish the Auxilia would get more HQ options, like a heavy weapon Captain/Marshal that helps his Tercio with rotor cannons and heavy flamers, crazy axe guy that buffs the axe Velataris, and some specialists like snipers or other roles.

>>96225285
In a challenge the two challengers go after each other's WS, ignoring the squad. Its why Angron was able to get around his normal "you hit me and my squad as if we were WS 3" when in challenges.

>>96225298
it's lore accurate for Lorgar to be a faggot, checkmate. And he never 1v1s (on Istvaan it was Corax vs Lorgar+Konrad and on Shadow Crusade Guilliman vs Lorgar+Angron.)

>>96225191
Kinda. TH unless a legion blade would serve you better. One day the thread was all Finisher -> Seize, then they say Seize every day.
Termie Praetors have 5W and can survive two seizing hits. Artificer Praetors can take a shield so they are 2 pips faster than Cataphractii ones, but they cannot survive two seizes. But they can Finisher and it's still faster than a Cataphractii's seize

>>96225305
that's why you accept the challenge with a random sergeant/chosen warrior, then Lorgar insta-kills the primarch using his brutal hammer in the back which hits on 3+ instead of 5+.

>>96225300
I thought the biggest drawback was that the only thing you ever win is compliments for how cool your army looks?

I legit never saw a Solar player win a game in the entire run of 2nd edition at events, like not even a single game. But their armies were always the ones being complimented on, because you look rad.

>>96225300
Don’t even play solar aux and yeah. I get that they’re meant to be a faceless hoard but they need some way to make generals and the like

>>96225285

What do you think challenges are for?

>>96225191
What >>96225311 said, but if you REALLY just want to win, you go with the Saturnine Praetor with the hammer, you kill pretty much everything in 1-2 hits guaranteed and are so tanky, only problem is the price.

>>96225321
challenges are for stalling with chosen warriors, so the exact opposite of what you think they are for.

>>96225285
Who cares about HH2?

>>96225326

It works a bit differently in HH3

>>96225332
it's what 90% of warhammer30k players are playing, so just about everyone? It's just not usually needing to be discussed since the meta is so solved and bland with brutal weapons and lascannons totally dominant.

>>96225300
>You know what's the biggest drawback of playing the Auxilia? No Consul equivalent.
You're selling them to me. HQ now look like tax that unlocks the army, but SA command squads make more sense. And now each of them actually interact with their platoons. Like, Artillery command squads bind an artillery corps together

>>96225338
>Thinks people are still gunna be playing HH2 when HH3 is out.

>>96225336
I don't play 4 turn games that are decided on turn 1-2 by nothing more than running in a straight line touching circles on the ground. I'm not retarded.

>>96225332
who cares about HH3?

>>96225315
>I legit never saw a Solar player win a game in the entire run of 2nd edition at events
Couldn't they bring like 30 plasma or Melta guns in a single HQ slot? That's gotta account for something

>>96225362
They could, but that would require them making a blatantly power gamey unit, instead of a cool unit that the kits intended. Its like back in earlier editions of Warhammer, when Death Korp of Krieg were a forgeworld army that could be made really busted with the right loadouts in their supplement, but anyone buying them wanted them for the hobby of it all and so they all just sucked in game, but looked gorgeous because the guy actually ran the bad units that looked nice like the horses and the siege squads with the awkward mix matched guns.

What I'm trying to say is that Aux players had a ton of soul, with very cool armies.

>>96225341
My local battlegroup is playing 2.5
I've got a 6 page document of custom stuff for everybody and it's been a blast. We are free of the GW roller coaster, there are no strings on me.

>>96225378
Some SA players built axemen before they even got the rules to use them out of any of their transports. That's commitment and grit

>>96225444
that's the way to do it. HH2 just needed a balance pass anytime in its 3 years of creation, not the fuckup of HH3

>>96225455
I never get to play many tabletop games thanks to my job, and it's even more rarely 30k. Part of coming to peace with it was accepting that 99% of the reason I do this hobby is for the models and the lore. Once I had that realization, I started just making units that I liked rather than units that were optimal.

If I get to put them on the table at all, great. I'll have fun with my long time friends I play with regardless.

>>96222687
ziggers mix their spaff into recasts so when you clean them up you end up snorting their cum like a fag

>>96225502
if you're not using gloves and a mask until the resin has been cleaned you're already retarded and going to get cancer in 10-20 years.

>openly gay corrupt slavs vs closet gay corrupt slavs
What if I want both of them to fail?

>>96222391
ngl I felt a little pain watching that.

>>96225502
>hryyyyyyyyyyk!

>>96224277
>battle for beta-garmon
litter.catbox.moe/zm2m90m2ge8fn6uj.pdf

>>96224476
>>96224343
god phalanx warders are even worse, it is me or most legion units lacks line or vanguard?

>>96225832
If your unit isn't dedicated to either holding objectives with line, or killing enemy units trying to hold objectives, they are essentially entirely pointless in 3e.

>>96224277
I put all the Exemplary Battles in here.
https://gofile.io/d/gMwH8X

>>96225832
>it is me or most legion units lacks line or vanguard?
WS Ebon Keshig Vanguard 3
SW Varagyr Vanguard 4
SW Grey Slayers Line 2
BA Crimson Pals Line 1
BA The Angel's Tears Vanguard 3
IH Gorgon Terminators Vanguard 3
Sal Firedrakes Vanguard 4

EC Platine blades Vanguard 3
NL Contekar Vanguard 3
NL Terror Squad Vanguard 2
NL Raptors Vanguard 4
WE Rampagers Vanguard 3
DG Grave Wardens Vanguard 3
TS Sekhmet Cabal Vanguard 3
SoH Maloghurst Increases Vanguard or Line value by +1 if in a Unit (Insane)
SoH Justaerin Termies Vanguard 4
Soh Reavers Vanguard 3
WB Gal Vorbak Vanguadr 3
WB Ashen Circle Vanguard 3
AL Lernean Termies Line 1

>>96225904
Lmao Iron Warriors can get fucked I guess.

>>96225934
wait for dominators, anon
trvst the plvn
:^)

>>96225904
This is such unbalanced dogshit. Yes I play Dark Angels

Jesus Christ how the fuck have you retards not figured out yet that Vanguard is literally a downside

>>96225938
NTA, but dominators are probably retinue, and retinue don't have vanguard.

>>96225952
>Vanguard gives you points for killing an enemy unit on an objective.
>"Vanguard is literally a downside because the enemy will use one of their (limited) reactions to move off points (and stop scoring)! That means its a downside!"
Retard.

>>96225952
0/10 bait

Good morning anons, how are you feeling now that james couldnt keep his word for 2 week? Ready to switch to a better gaming system?

>>96225963
>>96225966
>no guys I swear this special rule that can only ever be relevant in one of three missions because it's the only one with. Center objective and only if the opponent doesn't choose to move react off after they've score on their turn and deny you your charge and the victory points making you waste 3-700 points depending on how retarded you were in investing in this dogshit unit to earn one (1) VP before getting blasted into oblivion is totally not a trap option guys
Anyone who isn't just spamming line and sitting on their home objectives is retarded. Vanguard is literally a trap rule written to mark our the retards who actually think 10 Terminators in a Spartan is a winning strategy

>>96225963
I mean...won't they? Even if your unit doesn't have Vanguard, if it is melee and the other guy Repositions away, my legion Cataphractii-only unit will be una le to charge at all.
Them denying be VP is the cherry on top, and my termies will probably get Vindicator'd right? :(

Fuck man I have no idea how the fuck you would even need 3 HQs to run an army this edition, taking 1 praetor and filling out their apex detachment chews up half my points before transports. Seriously why are 20 gal vorbsk 1000 points

>>96225944
They probably make up for it with a great Rite of war.

>>96225999
You can sit on your objective with Line units and drive somewhere with your vanguard unit. It's not mutually exclusive. A unit moving out from the objective with reaction is not a problem since every pintle weapon on most transports can be equipped with a Havoc launcher with stun. In addition to that, forcing Line units out of the objective is already a win since the game is 4 turns only.
>NO! I won't be taking Vanguard units anyway!
Feel free to play the game like you want, anon.

>>96225904
Its really funny that the Dark Angels units get nothing, they dont even get line on their themed units.

>>96225999
Goodness, you just threaten two objectives in one turn you idiot, the opponent can only retreat off one, meaning you get at least some vanguard and now they arent on the objective anymore so they score less.

How hard is it to understand something that simple?

All of this Heresy shitshow happened the second the Solar Auxilia lost their hq model in his massive beautiful jacket.

Bring him back you fools!

>>96226065
They are available on the legacy pdf anon, trust the plan, 2 more weeks. :^)

>>96226058
They didn't get much in 3.0 desu.

That moment when all I want out of the new Liber books are the info on the Colors of the Legion two page spread for the Iron Hands and Death Guard.

Will you be using a Praetor, anon? You no longer need them (or Delegatii) to unlock a rite of war. Can you afford not having a third Reaction?

>>96226087
>>96226058
>>96226043
It's a shame but I guess someone has to he the new Salamanders.

Fun fact: 10 Deathwing companions in a land raider costs as many points as a falchion

>>96226148
*if you buy the DWC Terranic Greatswords and the LR lascannons, both of which are essential

>>96226071
I've cancelled a planned project because I'm tired of being strung along by a multi billion pound business

>>96226148
Ironically, Salamanders are top dog this edition.
Cherry on the cake is that Vulkan is broken beyond belief.
IA favoritism l say.

>>96226116
Don't know yet tbqh. I've got Praetor models in PA and Cataphractii, but I'm not sure where to stick them in my current list.

>legacies slips from a july release
trainwreck
this is being done haphazardly from the seat of their pants lmao
imagine not sticking w/ 2.0 oldhammer and developing your own flavoring everlong from here

Are there still reasons to take units that might be okay or good, but are vastly outclassed by other Legion's rules interacting with those same units?

Not sure if my thinking is still in 2.0 space where RoW and Legion rules more clearly impacted *how* a Legion was supposed to be played, rather than the more fluid and less structured Detachment system, and more specifically, encouraged certain units because they were *better* in certain Legions.

>>96225783
Thank you anon

You will never be a real game designer macca. You have no talent, you have no IP, you have no panache. You are a fat man twisted by bitterness and nostalgia into a crude mockery of Alan Bligh.
All the “validation” you get is two-faced and half-hearted. Behind your back people mock you. Your discord members are disgusted and ashamed of you, your “friends” laugh at your ghoulish appearance behind closed doors.
Hobbyists are utterly repulsed by you. Thousands of years of evolution have allowed men to sniff out frauds with incredible efficiency. Even your legion rules who “pass” look uncanny and unnatural to a man. Your bias is a dead giveaway. And even if you manage to get a drunk guy to try your homebrew, he’ll turn tail and bolt the second he gets a look at your WS chart.
You will never be happy. You wrench out a fake smile every single morning and tell yourself it’s going to be ok, but deep inside you feel the depression creeping up like a weed, ready to crush you under the unbearable weight.
Eventually it’ll be too much to bear - you’ll buy a rope, tie a noose, put it around your neck, and plunge into the cold abyss. Your discord members will find you, heartbroken but relieved that they no longer have to live with the unbearable shame and disappointment. They’ll bury you with a headstone marked with your birth name, and every passerby for the rest of eternity will know a no games faggot is buried there. Your body will decay and go back to the dust, and all that will remain of your legacy is a skeleton that is unmistakably gay.
This is your fate. This is what you chose. There is no turning back.

>>96226242
Fuck off and fantasize about macca somewhere else, no one is talking about him or cares.

>>96226242
Don't interact with lolcows

>>96226148
I'm still kinda pissed we got shafted so hard

Has anyone tried playing HH in Tabletop Simulator? There's 3D models and game boards for 40k, but I don't know if there's similar resources for 30k

>>96226036
>Seriously why are 20 gal vorbsk 1000 points
This question only becomes more amplified when you see they're only ap3 with breaching 5+. You could get 500pts worth of gal vorbak and then buy a land raider for them which runs you an extra 400pts…..Or you could just get a veteran assault squad with power axes for 300 or so points. It’s genuinely fucking stupid how gimped WB’s got this edition

>>96226036
Did they fix Galvorbak so they can actually use their melee attacks?

>>96226148
To be fair, Deathwing Companions and Inner Circle are still some of the best units in the game. The Inner circle gets crazy if you can get a prime slot for them, as the unit champion can become a ws7 dueling monster.

Death wing companions get Eternal warrior 1, which is bonkers on a retinue.

>>96226203
>2.0 oldhammer
Red books or bust.

>>96222391
>Salamanders page gets spared
Interesting.

>>96226367
They're close combat monsters sure, but without vanguard they're not necessarily contributing much to winning games. Just look at all these vanguard legion elites:
>>96225904

>>96225300
3.0 Aux kind of fixed that with the new command squad variants. You've got line, artillery, scout, veletaris and Tank commanders actually being useful and providing relevant buffs to their Terico.

Its sad that they didn't let Scout Commanders melee options tho, a bunch of sentinels with spears and Heavy flamers could have been super cool.

>>96222533
This is so much better it's not even funny.

>>96226116
Do you have only 3 reactions per game or 3 per turn?

>>96223194
Eh, all you know about me is that I'm handsome

>>96226116
Depends on army I think. Most legions probably want it. Custodes probably don't give a shit.

>>96224681

Jesus, but imagine them with it. T7 Terminators with a 4++. There isn't a single plasma weapon that's wounding on better than a 3, even the fucking Titan mounted one doesn't get better than that.
And pretty much all infantry mounted Plasma is wounding on 4's and 5s... Except for the Moritat whose overcharged Pistol is S8.

EVERY Disintigrator weapon aside from the Cannon is wounding on 4 or 5 now, even the Inversion Beam at close ranges needs a 3+. Autocannons need a 4+ as well.

Of course Sallies sort of get some of this innately with their Shield Terminators anyway since you can't wound them on anything better than a 3+ across the Legion. And Drakenscale effectively gives them Eternal Warrior (1) against Melta, Plasma and Flame weapons. So you'd probably only use Shieldwall with them if it turned a 3+ into a 4+ or worse, so that'd be stuff in that narrow S7 and S6 band.

80 minutes to legacies

>>96226631

Fuck, T6 or lower that should be.

>>96226645
Lol

Who are you sticking your Centurions and Consuls with? I haven't really got much in the way of fast moving melee squads (Iron Warriors), but it doesn't seem like sticking Centurions, Siegebreakers etc within Tactical squads is a good use of them

>>96223619
I don't want to hurt your feelings, but this is kind of a perfect picture to save for firing back at the people who cry "muh poses" in the mono-pose era.

You individually posed every single one of those guys, yet they all look exactly the same.

>>96226697
Tactical squads, they're going to secure the objectives

>>96226631
if you like T7 4++ terms, tzeentch sehkmet get it with the stoneform psychic reaction.
With T5 2+/4++ they're a waste to shoot any small arms into, and the mere threat of stoneform for 10 points per unit makes it too risky to use an expensive 10 plasma squad against them or the like.

Real hard anvil to go with the hammer of your autocannon spam with 48" rending5+ autowounding at AP2 Dmg2 (or rending5+ plasma gun supports)

>>96222317 (OP)
hey OP try and put a title in the next thread yeah no more tribute omissions you dumb fuck

>>96226463
What they are best for is intercepting the opponent's vanguard units and putting them down.

>>96226719

I'm sure my TSon playing friend will be glad to here that his era has arrived.

I think it looks fine.

>>96226645
Not this shit again... There are no legacies anon, you just hallucinated that.

>>96226776
>those fucking decals

Is there any ay of making a command tank in 3.0? I know the rhino exists but I mean something more like 40k's old sergeant Chronus.

>>96226799
If you are a good boy, Decurions will come back in a future journal anon. Otherwise, not really.

How big are SatuTermie heads in comparison to regular marine heads and helmets?

lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQQs3VjkoQ8

>>96226809
Wider slightly

>>96226809

Can't wait for the "teehee we want to make it perfect so we will need more time to do the legacies. Sowwy" today.

"Ps thanks for the cash"

>>96226821
>"Ps thanks for the cash"
GW thanking people, even sarcastically, for buying their product is less believable than them actually putting in extra effort to try and salvage at least part of this shitshow of an edition.

>>96226818

Fucking hell hahahaha
That saturnine is not human

Also Nice to see that the plastic Cata/Tarts actually scale quite well to the new Mk2s. Hopefully the remakes won't make them gigantic and the older ones don't look like midgets by comparison

>>96224801
How far are you from the border?

A box in Canada from a standard discounter works out to about ~230 US

>>96226242
All of this is true, in my experience.

>>96226818
I do wonder if that old 40K Centurion kits pauldrons would work on the new Terminators.

>>96226833

I mean, it's pretty clearly an Appleseed style Landmate sort of thing. The size comparison I'm interested in is how does it stack up next to the SoB Paragon Warsuits?

>>96226853
They basically already have them, it's just that hidden under their outer-shoulder pads.

>>96226858
And this photo doesn't even show the additional small round pauldron that you add to each shoulder BEFORE you stick the huge ones on. It's ridiculous.

>>96225444
POST IT

>>96226863
Yo dawg, I heard you like Shoulder Pads, so we put a Shoulder Pads in your Shoulder Pads so you can Shoulder Pads while you Shoulder Pad.

>Hereticus EC reaction can be used multiple times
>gives +1S, FnP 5+, Removes statuses and gives immunity to them when someone charges you.
wtf i love hereticus now

>>96226878
>detachment mandates you bring Snekgrim
I hate it.

>>96226858
Those look like the Leviathan glacis plates, down to the recesses with screws.

Where are the legacies James?

>>96226320
You have to use an old FTC board to get the right size, and stuff, but there's mods and support for 30k. Biggest issue is just the standard TTS jank. Oh, also TroonedWalrus and co gatekeep the main comms channel about it iirc.

>>96226776
It doesn't look 'fine' anon. It looks bloody good, plain and simple. All the armour redesigns so far have been good and I won't stand for their slander anymore.

>>96226645
What'll the next cope be?

>>96226899
Still cooking in the bespokometron

>>96226924
40 minutes to legacies

>>96226915
>All the armour redesigns so far have been good and I won't stand for their slander anymore.
I really love the dorky flat band look, the pretend kneepads, the complete disregard armour marks, the cartoonish roundness, and Arab-tier proliferation of completely standard embellishments.

>>96226940
Very wise sire

Yaaaay I just realised the fucking AL trait doesn't apply to vehicles. There goes my entire AL armored list. Yaaaaaaaaaay.

>>96226940
Enjoy your disappointment, fool

Can someone who WONT fuck up the thread start a new thread in anticipation for legacies

>>96226967
No point

>>96226967
New thread only after legacies drops.

New, NOT FUCKED, Thread, CORRECTLY NAMED, BLESSED by Nurgle dubs
>>96226977
>>96226977

>>96226980
Came too early, much like your sexual performance.

>>96226970
>>96226973
Whatever fag made this thread fucked it up, new thread for a new day of rage

>>96226986
> T. Retard who fucked up this thread

>>96225339
>>96226491
Aren't almost all those squads the same now tho? Sword and pistol on the sergeant, lasguns on everything but the Velataris. At least they kept the special weapons on the companions/lifewards.

How dirty should 30k death guard be? Should they be covered in filth to the point they start to look greenish, or just a bit rusted?

>>96227116
Eh, not too filthy, a bit rusted and worn but not filthy. Save the filthiness for the Siege of Terra

...although that does bring to bear the fact that collecting death guard means that you can't fight SoT battles unless you outright go and buy a second army of 40k plague marines to represent SoT/scouring death guard, since post-Buried Dagger DG are p much 40k death guard but with 30k vehicles, dreadnoughts, and presumably tactical and heavy support variants of plague marines at the cost of the weird 40k era DG shit (the tracked mortar, blight/bloat drones, helbrutes, defilers, a lot of the weirder 40k DG character models, the weird melee options plague marines have, poxwalkers, etc)

>>96227155
Didn't Alan Bligh eventually plan for the Black Books to eventually cover the Siege of Terra and have rules in it for the by-then thoroughly chaos-corrupted traitor legions? Shame he passed before that dream could be realized, now current GW designers are pissing on his legacy instead of continuing it

>>96225444
Tell me deepstrike is changed

>>96225444
YO IS THIS PIC FOR REAL

>>96225934
Their super power is being expendable

>>96226019
You release in the FIRST FUCKING FAQ they addressed evading off objectives and vanguard right

>>96224029
Theyre ogre parts, should be from the mournfang kit iirc since thats where the banner is from.

>>96224482
>Ebon Keshig terminators being garbage
You just dont understand what ebon keshig are meant to do. Theyre not meant to fight other terminators, theyre supposed to storm objectives held by soft targets (so not terminators) safely, which they do well, thanks to their power glaives and solid damage profile combined with a lower points cost and good vanguard for the offense + expendable to give up less points on the defense.

>lose to any terminators
Possibly, although given they have Ap2 at initiative on the charge they do actually do fine into regular terminators.

>>96226507
per turn

>>96227195
There are already some corrupted versions of rows sprinkled in the books but they are more subdued and not full on SoT proto-csm tier.

>>96225944
>>96225904
You may notice that the non-vanguard troops are generally more cost effective than the vanguard troops.
A naked night raptor (with power armor and chainsword) costs as much as a full on dawnbreaker.

Units that just fight are better at fighting - from a cost effectiveness standpoint - than units that also score.

>>96226853
They have a weird torso shape where the back of the shoulders sticks out. Those pads wouldn't really fit on them

>>96225444
Post it

>>96223409
>And then the Lion is so autistic he goes on to try and kill Russ after the siege while Russ just goes "okay kill me then, bro".

Where is it from?

>>96222391
Wtf man!

>>96228274
Why is there furry cuck porn in my /hhg/

>>96228429
It's cuckery but how is that furry?

>>96228472
Look closely at the shadow.

>>96228708
I don't follow, please outline what you are talking about.

>>96228987
He implies that the girl getting fucked is a furry because she has those hairbuns on the top of her head.
He thinks they are supposed to be ears.

>>96223005
>gav thorpe
No. It isn't good.
The guy must have dirt on the board to not get fired.

>>96229133
Nah Gav thorpe is very bad when it comes to Eldar. He must have something against them.

>>96229038
Yeah that doesn't sound right

>>96226703
>You individually posed every single one of those guys, yet they all look exactly the same.

~Lost D. Glasses

>>96226818
We have reached the point where guardsmen should pe able to pilot terminators like Armored Troopers

Now that the dust has settled, why did 3.0 flop?