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Thread 96226085

107 posts 38 images /tg/
Anonymous No.96226085 >>96226103 >>96226115 >>96226143 >>96226162 >>96226208 >>96226292 >>96226394 >>96226639 >>96226662 >>96227142 >>96227736 >>96229289 >>96230244 >>96231181 >>96231725 >>96235554 >>96235745 >>96239427 >>96239502 >>96239736 >>96242549 >>96246245 >>96246340
Could the earth militaries hold out own against codex armies? Impguard vs USA is tired and overdone.

What is the damage expected for the great Pyramids at Cairo being replaced with Necron Monoliths.

How about a Genestealer Cult?
Anonymous No.96226103 >>96226639
>>96226085 (OP)
Depends who is writing.
Anonymous No.96226111
>Khornate cults stabbing people in London
>Ork rokk landing in the brazilian jungle
>Genestealers infesting the old mines in the Ruhr
>Necrons awakened by bombings in Iran
Anonymous No.96226115 >>96226218
>>96226085 (OP)
depends on how well they hold up against tactical nukes
Anonymous No.96226143 >>96231918 >>96235556 >>96246266
>>96226085 (OP)
The lasgun is every soldiers wet dream
Anonymous No.96226162 >>96226302 >>96227467
>>96226085 (OP)
Yeah, it depends on the writer and the planet those Guards came from. Cadians would probably smoke most unsupported US infantry because of Cadians' brutal training, normal LazGuns, and standard Armor. Basic Bitch Guard Armor can easily stop auto-guns bullets, which are pretty much modern military firearms bullets.

One advantage the Infantrymen would have over the Guards is that the Infantrymen WILL ALWAYS have armor support. Just humvees with 50cals supporting Infantrymen would wreck most Guards that isn't from a Famous Guard world.
Anonymous No.96226208
>>96226085 (OP)
Earth vs the various factions:

Necrons = Humanity is fucked

Tyranid hive Fleet = Humanity is fucked

Ork Waaagh = Humanity is fucked

Chaos = Humanity is fucked. (literally if slaneesh)

Tau = Humanity is either fucked or is won over by the offer of trade in high tech and becomes part of the Alliance.

Space Dorfs = Humanity survives after the dorfs are sued out of existance by the Starcraft franchise for copyright.

Dark Elves = Humanity doesn't notice a few more random anal probings and cow mutilations, though profits in goth and BDSM clubs increase slightly.
Anonymous No.96226218 >>96226245 >>96226302
>>96226115
"Ha, our Ork Gargant has lost a single Power Field to that big flash."
Anonymous No.96226241 >>96226298 >>96230398
It's really funny that a common consensus is that we'd beat imperial ground forces, but everything they fight and regularly beat is a no-win scenario for us.
Anonymous No.96226245 >>96246218
>>96226218
What about the rest of the army around the gargant?
Anonymous No.96226292 >>96226417 >>96239704
>>96226085 (OP)
it always will boil down to

>do they have space assets and are they willing to use them
>what numbers does the enemy submit to the earth theater

Could earth military deal with 100.000 Tau? Yeah, sure.

Could earth deal with 1.000.000 nids? Yeah.

Could earth deal with 50.000 Necrons? Yeah.

Could Earth deal with 5.000.000 Orcs? Sure.

Could earth deal with 1 (one) grand cruiser of any faction willing to do orbital bombardment? No
Anonymous No.96226298 >>96230865 >>96246266
>>96226241
Because james cant into numbers and we assume a matched force. Cannon examples of guard armies are comically small and their tech and strategy is objectively inferior, so we "win" those hypotheticals. If you apply some common sense you'll easily see guard armies should be in the hundreds of millions which sways the matchup somewhat

Also bl retards wank marines, crons and deldar beyond belief, which makes the whole setting into some absurd marvel-esque anime bullshit

Modern 40k is a dumpster fire
Anonymous No.96226302
>>96226162

You can’t really fault Germany of 45 for having unarmored infantry catching rides on mules or Syrians using a modern truck mounted trebuchet that one time. When ww3 goes hot for real (or in this case when some fictional space army is pressing us to the wall) you can’t really expect every squad of guys to be chaperoned by an ATV every mission or have trauma kits with that funky medical foam sprayers in said atv’s or have uranium tipped shells for every gun and so on.

I’m not one to treat the imperium charitably for much, all fuck-ups are in part largely self-inflicted after all but you should still give some charitable credit back for keeping their gears turning in the face of a galaxy on fire in spite of themselves. Guard is ‘supposed’ to be well kitted out but le comedy of space dictatorship is what it is and so it’s left footed boots for everyone come next resuply.

Not sure where I was going with all that but I’ll bring this back around to a point about this which really swings odds towards the irl fighting forces and that is that Drones are pretty damn game changing IRL.
>>96226218
Tau bring Titans down with missiles from their Mantas. They were big missiles, they used a good salvo of the things but they were not nukes and it absolutely works just mustering a lot of shooty at a thing and aiming it at the Titan’s head. Pound away at a thing like it’s a battleship of the land.

Titans and their aproxomates across the setting are gassed up beyond what they actually are.
Anonymous No.96226394
>>96226085 (OP)
>what forces can faction X commit (numbers)
>what special super equipment (titans, space forces) do they send
>what is the objective of the war (annihilation, conquest, subjugation, resource gathering, something different)
>is the enemy supplied through space on do they have to make do with what they can acuire on earth
To have any real discussion, you first need to set these boundries
Anonymous No.96226417 >>96226438 >>96235523 >>96239690 >>96239699
>>96226292
>Could earth deal with 1 (one) grand cruiser of any faction willing to do orbital bombardment? No

Sci-fi ships are by default not supposed work in perpetuity like that without being repaired, rearmed & recrewed.

Sci-fi if it isn’t trying to be la-de-da about its hardness defaults to treating planets as islands and space as the ocean separating them. Blockading or pounding away at a planet isn’t something that just passively happens, an imperial task force that is up there in space is eating up their food and supplies and taking on wear and tear, limited payloads, a navigator or geller dudes die of sepsis and they’re short on spares.

Imagine if all planets in the imperium disappeared, the ship side remnant would slowly fizzle out and die.

A ship that doesn’t get it’s tlc will inevitably turn into a space hulk. 1 ship would eventually lose vs most any planet exception granted that it could be the delivery method for some super weapon that could kill us all ala virus bomb but then were not really talking about the ship(s) itself being what destroyed us.

‘Maybe’ Necron stuff can go and be fully autonomous but it’s damn for sure not the same that imperial stuff can do that.
Anonymous No.96226438
>>96226417
actually good point, i totally didnt consider that. Yeah, you are obviously right.
Anonymous No.96226639
>>96226085 (OP)
>Could the earth militaries hold out own against codex armies?
This shit again?
>>96226103
>Depends who is writing.
/thread
Anonymous No.96226662
>>96226085 (OP)
>Could the earth militaries hold out own against codex armies?
Depends on how much lore fixing you do for Games Workshop, a lot of derp model designs would be terrible in real life.
Anonymous No.96227142
>>96226085 (OP)
Power levels in Warhammer are completely arbitrary.
Anonymous No.96227467 >>96227736
>>96226162
>Basic Bitch Guard Armor can easily stop auto-guns bullets
No it can't kek, it's called Flak armor for a reason
Anonymous No.96227736 >>96235561
>>96226085 (OP)
I think you could do some fun things with the idea of a near earth industrial world that militarized and is resisting the Imperium within the setting but the absolute biggest problem of transferring it to real world is that every single 40k (excepting the nids) has an ass air force because it's hard to make flyers in a tabletop wargame where it isn't the focus.

>>96227467
Flak armor is basically a more resilient modern ceramic armor as far as representations on ttrpg and the tabletop go.
Anonymous No.96227797 >>96227828 >>96230027
Its actually interesting to consider how hard modern drone warfare would fuck with a 40k force like the guard. What kind of counter do they even have against that? Its not like those big Tau drones that are easy to see. Just imagine every few weeks your Basilisks, your ammo storages, your commissars go boom and the earth military knows of every single position, every single troop concentration and every single force build up you do and they just fuck it with long range missle fire. Unless this is some situation where you can bring overwhelming numbers to the field to just carelessly tank any number of losses that would make even the russians blush, i can see the guard struggling real fucking hard.
Anonymous No.96227828 >>96227962
>>96227797
You would have to assume absolutely zero satellite coverage since space would belong totally to the navy. We've got nothing there. Drones are an interesting problem we have now and I suspect they'll figure something out, since they have advanced auspex jamming already but honestly the best solution is a servitor with an auto-shotgun and a built in auspex.

Also servo-skull suicide drones when?
Anonymous No.96227962 >>96232430 >>96239396
>>96227828
>Also servo-skull suicide drones when?
That's a bit like asking the Buddhists to use the corpses of revered monks as bullet sponges.
Anonymous No.96229289 >>96231514 >>96231834
>>96226085 (OP)
I argued about this with an acquantaince who is a /k/fag. We ended up with the conclussion modern armies most likely would outmanuver the IG in every skirmish they encounter but would eventually lose because of the war of atrition tactics and sheer numbers the normal guard regiment has.
And if we end up being a lil bit too much problem, they'll prolly just send down one space marine squad.
Anonymous No.96229674 >>96230027
A lot of people forget how ridiculously technologically advanced the Imperium is supposed to be because of how the fiction is written to emphasise the Imperium's (relative) technological backwardness by deliberately keeping any mentions of "sci fi"-sounding stuff to the absolute minimum. Technology is very poorly understood by most in the Imperium but the technology they do have is basically space magic compared to today.
Anonymous No.96230027 >>96230083 >>96230345 >>96260839
>>96227797
Probably not very much. Basic bitch guard squads are equipped with vox units and auspex devices that can transmit clear signals across hundreds of miles - as well as the technology to jam such devices. The Imperium's technology when it comes to signals and waves is clearly far in excess of whatever we have. They have devices that can detect life signs in real time so I doubt it would be hard detecting drones from a long distance.
Seeing as how 'tiny drone' technology is already present in 40k there's obviously some reason they don't widely use it in battle. Their battlefields are awash with the kind of high-energy radiation that would play havoc with unshielded electronics (and guidance sensors). Every plasma shot or plasma-based explosive is spewing gamma rays out the ass, extremely high powered lasers flying everywhere, god knows what kind of waves come out of melta reactions which are some kind of nuclear fusion. And the aforementioned extremely powerful communications signals. Tau drones are probably about as small as they get get while still being sufficiently shielded.
The Imperium also has automated CIWS technology so widely available that they're used as semi-disposable sentry turrets, the Tarantulas.

>>96229674
Picrel
Anonymous No.96230083
>>96230027
Anonymous No.96230244
>>96226085 (OP)
A whole army of 25mm+ plastic soldiers
vs
1 GI with reinforced boots

the outcome is clear.
Anonymous No.96230345 >>96235569 >>96235656
>>96230027
Imperial metallurgy and material science far exceeds our own too. Plasteel, Adamantine, Ceramite, ect. all blow our composites out of the water. It's a sci-fi setting set 38,000 years in the future I don't get why people try to do this.
Anonymous No.96230398 >>96230824 >>96230904
>>96226241
Its because the Imperial ground forces are humans, and our history of warfare has given us a lot of experience and tools for killing humans. If we shoot a human with a gun, the human dies and we win.

We can't kill Necrons. Almost literally can't kill them, even permanently disabling a single necron warrior would be an extremely difficult feat for us. We just don't have the tech for it.

Orks would be resistant to most of our weapons but we COULD kill them with heavy firepower and missile strikes and the like, but unless we can come up with some kind of fungicide that would stop them in their tracks we can't really get rid of them, just sort of contain them for a while.

Tyranids we obviously can't beat. Honestly, it doesn't even make sense how the Imperium beats them most of the time. On paper, by the point you are even in a position to be engaging the nids in ground war the planet is already lost and the idea that you are going to fight your way out of this problem is absurd.

And so on.
Anonymous No.96230824
Really, depends on the numbers
No one bellow primarch tier at the very least is strong enough to just shrug off our firepower, and I am not even talking about nukes. Baneblades, knights and their non-imperial equivalents will eat missiles, shells and drones till they die. Elites like custodes get exhausted, they can't fight forever. Even primarchs aren't really invincible, they were threatened by bolters several times.
That is a straight up fight. However, 40k factions can try subversive actions. Genestealer and chaos cults can spread, plus later got rituals. Imperium has fanaticism, faith, experience and authoritarianism and planets still fall. However, it's not guaranteed-maybe Chaos cult sets up shot in Brazil and get magdumped by some gang
>>96230398
>Necrons are invincible
Play tabletop, necrons aren't particularly invincible. Or failing that, read some books. They can ne brought down with with brute force
Anonymous No.96230865
>>96226298
>Deldar
>Wanked
Heh, I wish.
Anonymous No.96230904
>>96230398
>On paper, by the point you are even in a position to be engaging the nids in ground war the planet is already lost and the idea that you are going to fight your way out of this problem is absurd.
iirc the Battle of Macragge was mainly around defending the anti-orbital defence fortresses, which were needed to prevent the main hive fleet from setting up shop in orbit - which is game over. If the hive fleet can establish uncontested orbit then they just bathe the planet in infinity-nids and start making digestion oceans as their tendrils reach the surface.

The entire ground invasion of Macragge was effectively against the hive fleet's small commando unit they were able to spew past the orbital defences. Even that was enough to scour vast portions of the planet, bring down titans, and almost destroy the Ultramarines.

On the other hand that does indicate that sufficiently well developed ground-based defence weapons can be powerful enough to necessitate that a hive fleet try to neutralise them in advance.
Anonymous No.96231181
>>96226085 (OP)
The main issue is quantity of munitions and industrial base. A large part of the west’s munitions were depleted in ukraine (russia’s soviet milsurp too). Ukraine can hold against 4 million russians but could europe hold against 20 million guardsmen attacking from orbital deployment?
Tactical nukes could deter low-orbit ships and mass-landers, but that’s assuming the imperials couldn’t respond in time with their own reactive weapons and orbital bombardment.
Additionally nuclear weapons probably cant get that far into space, so they could just snipe all the publicly known nuclear launch sites. There’s no MAD
Anonymous No.96231514 >>96231834
>>96229289
>sheer numbers the normal guard regiment has.
Which is how much? Because Imperial Germany alone suffered about 2 million deaths in WW1 and a many Germans still wanted to keep fighting. So you imagine how many casualties the whole planet could suffer and keep going.
>one space marine squad
Bodied by auto canons, arty, airstrikes, or suicide drones. /tg/ and /k/ have beaten this horse to death.
Anonymous No.96231725
>>96226085 (OP)
>Could the earth militaries hold out own against codex armies
Yes because James Workshop can't into math and is bad at tactics, strategy and military technology.
This is why imperial guard that is using early cold war/late ww2 vehicles and tactics ranging from pseudo napoleonic warfare to early cold war somehow can overcome all crazy shit like nids, orks, necrons and even daemons.
Since straight up inferior army with inferior tactics and equipment can somehow overcome space enemies earth armies can too.
Just to give some examples of how badly written imperial equipment is, Land Raider one of best armoured vehicles in Imperium have armour that ammounts to 300mm of "conventional steel" modern atgm penetrate 750-1000mm after ERA, leman russ top speed in 35km/h so slower than most WW2 tanks and slower than all MBT,basic apc Chimera despite being just well armoured apc(still easly penetrated by every rpg) armed with equivalent of heavy machine gun, weights 40t, weight simlar to MBT despite being battle taxi for squad of infantry that provide less firepower than IFV, basilisk maximum firing range is 16m, that could be considered standard range during ww2, but cold war era guns fired at 20+km standard and much further with extended range rounds, not to mention that super advanced energy guns that break laws of physics are no diferent in effectivnes from autogun that is just XX century rifle. This don't take into consideration that guard possess no planes because it's domain of navy, regiment is either 100% tanks, 100% artillery or 100% infantry because of organisation based on paranoia "what if regiment go traitor", and even then navy aircraft are just dogfighting.
In short IG are outmanouvered, outranged, outgunned by any real(as in USA, China, Russia, India, Ukraine etc) army, and because GW is bad with numers guard will also have less troops than said armies. This is before we take into account tactical nuclear weapon.
Anonymous No.96231833 >>96232013 >>96235238
Anonymous No.96231834
>>96229289
>>96231514
Kind of tangential but I feel like a space marines role could be a really a heavily armored CQB unit for close fighting in the endless hives, multilayered industrial areas, alien nests, space hulks, boarding action, trenches and tunnels, etc.

When you think "what's the best unit to be constantly charging through armored corridors, but without bringing so additional gear much that you're being held up by every staircase and half-open door, fighting in tight environments?" the idea of a big guy with heavy armor and full life support suite and a close range loadout seems fairly reasonable. Suddenly half the shit guard has stops being of any use unless you find an industrial lift to carry it. Room clearing is serious business, having to clear 500 rooms in a row is hell.

Of course you then look at the fluff and they're positioning their last stand in the middle of an open field and it's all a bit pointless to worry about. They have swords because they look cool, that's all.
Anonymous No.96231918
>>96226143
>giant bulky thing that reveals your position when you fire it.
I’m good thanks
Anonymous No.96232013 >>96235222 >>96235671
>>96231833
This is what happens when a bunch of guys who only know WW2 tanks write your Sci-Fi lore.
Anonymous No.96232430 >>96234117
>>96227962
The space marines already have missile artillery that uses the remains of failed initiates as missile guidance systems
I think it's safe to assume if that the Imperium is fine with using remains of its people as suicide drones/missiles
Anonymous No.96234117
>>96232430
It was SAM. Dead serf is used as guidance system, it's space marines version of S-400/Patriot, not artillery.
Servo skulls are expensive because of anti grav tech and require someone worthy to became one because it's an honour to became one. This is why servo skulls are only assigned to senior officers in Imperial Guard.
Anonymous No.96235222
>>96232013
Like most things in 40k it depends on who is writing

In at least one source Leman Russ tanks can go up to 70 km/h, and the superstructure can be made from anything from primitive iron to magic space steel depending on what world it is manufactured on

In 40k, technology only works as good as the plot demands, with all sorts of built-in excuses on why "piece of technology a" works better or worse than "piece of technology b" in different sources
Anonymous No.96235238 >>96235443
>>96231833
380mm of plasteel is equal to 1140mm of steel according to imperial armour
Anonymous No.96235443
>>96235238
No, 98mm Land Raider armour that is made out of adamatium reinforced by plasteel coated with some energy absorbent mesh and ceramic. This is imperium best composite armour and it provides protection comparable to 300mm of steel. Leman Russ and other IG tanks don't have this type of armour, just cast plasteel.
No Imperial tank have 380mm of armour even Baneblade tops at 220mm.
Anonymous No.96235523
>>96226417
if it's total war, the 40k ship can just glass the planet in a matter of hours with conventional munitions. Their long-term survival is irrelevant to the question.
Anonymous No.96235554
>>96226085 (OP)
YES. 40k humans are actually a step backwards in doctrine and technology which is exactly the point.
>eldar/deldar
Actually dangerous.
>Tau
Very dangerous.
>Necrons
HOLY SHIT.
>Tyranids
Outright apocalyptic, Earth is fucked.
>Orcs
Drop them in Africa and South America and they'll fit right in, we probably won't even notice the difference.
>Chaos
>looks around
They're already here.
Anonymous No.96235556
>>96226143
No it's not. It's every beancounters dream, but lasrifles are legitimately trash.
Anonymous No.96235561
>>96227736
>modern armor
Is carapace armor.
Anonymous No.96235569 >>96241351
>>96230345
>armor thickness, speed, tonnage, caliber, are WW2 tier
>bUt iTs sPeSS sTuFF
No.
Anonymous No.96235656 >>96235719 >>96241351 >>96241691
>>96230345
>Imperial metallurgy and material science far exceeds our own too.
It actually doesn't, except in the actual elite forces and the nobility. Most imperial structures and devices are predominantly built from concrete, tempered steel, brass, simple stone, and plastic. The vast majority of the Imperium is below 21st century technological standards, including the mid to lower end of most hive cities which range from 16th century Industrial Revolution to mid-20th century standards of tech (Necromunda core book). The average Imperial, even in the most urban setting, isn't even guaranteed access to functioning sewage systems or toilets (Necromunda). Only the nobles, the Adeptus Terra, Space Marines, Sororitas, etc. have access to super space materials like diamantine, ceramite, adamantine, and so on. Even the best of the Imperium still use crude shit like chain weapons and flamers, which canonically are fueled by promethium, which canonically is no more advanced than the petrol we put in our cars (40k core codex). Humanity used to have perpetual energy drives in their starships (30k books), but Space Marine strike cruisers are literally powered by combustion engines and have to be refueled by fucking promethium carriers in space (sauce: Angels of Death series). It's all fucked.
Anonymous No.96235671
>>96232013
To be fair, it would be less egregious if they used Imperial units instead of metric, the fastest AFVs before modern MBTs had a max speed of 25 mph on roads.
Anonymous No.96235719 >>96235956 >>96239443
>>96235656
Also we had this "super materials" preformance showed in IA books, with Land Raider having 98mm of "space compsite" armor with adamatium, plasteel, ceramite and whatnot counting as 300mm of steel. Said 300mm of steel are supposed to be best class of armor Imperium can produce, thing that xenos with their railguns, gauss flayers or laser lances have problems to destroy.
When in modern times any shoulder fired anti tank launcher penetrate way more than that and modern tanks have effective armor around 1000mm or more
Anonymous No.96235745 >>96239712 >>96241351
>>96226085 (OP)
The stub pistol, which is more powerful than an autopistol/lastpistol is based on the Colt 1911. It doesn't matter what the writers have to say, by math nothing the IG has in a ground war is any better than what we have today on raw destructive power.
Anonymous No.96235784
If the average chaos cultist or genestealer cult fag can get shit done with crappy weapon scrapped together in the slums, you can bet you ass a modern military can get way more shit done. Whatever a ork boy can cleave with his trusty axe, a modern weapon can royally fuck.

If a ork rokkit can fuck a leman russ, so can a modern day anti tank missile
Anonymous No.96235956 >>96235969 >>96235995
>>96235719
Seeing as how weapons like railguns, laser lances, and million-degree plasma do struggle to have an effect on land raiders then that makes the whole 'muh numbers' obsession a logical absurdity.
Either it's '300mm of steel' and every faction in the galaxy is confusingly incapable of making anything more powerful than an 1930s anti-tank rifle. Or it's a lot stronger than 300mm of steel.
Anonymous No.96235969 >>96242273
>>96235956
My guess is that vehicle mounted railguns, super advanced anti armor lasers and reality breaking weapons are just weaker than modern age ATGM.
Why? Because 40k is written by guys who don't know shit and make main space marines tank, into bradley but worse and without troop carrying capacity.
Anonymous No.96235995 >>96239383
>>96235956
Again, anon. If this guy and its larger counterparts on trukks and looted wagons can damage shit, then so will a modern javelin
Anonymous No.96239383
>>96235995
The orks that design and build those weapons also use bits of scrap and junk to construct weapons that literally tunnel through the fabric of reality, there's clearly some bullshit going on inside that warhead.
Anonymous No.96239396
>>96227962
Anonymous No.96239427
>>96226085 (OP)
Like in the game. Depends on what loadout they have. If it's just a ground/air game, and no millions of ground fodder. As long as we don't get the "Their Power armor stops all current weaponry" and all.
Anonymous No.96239443
>>96235719
I dunno, I feel like if one very singular and specific number given in one book, ever, is completely ridiculous and doesn't match with what is shown and would mean that literally every single faction is operating at WW1 levels of armor and penetration, it's easier to just assume that number is incorrect and the writer just messed up. Considering as well it's the only number ever given that's indicated this.
The writer just didn't know what tanks use for armor and wrote down some nonsense. That happens a lot in scifi.

It's the reverse of the thing where the star wars cross sections writer said that every blaster has ten gajillion kilojoules of energy and would mean that everyone is carrying the full power of the fucking sun in their blasters. You just say that it's obviously incorrect and disregard it as meaningless funny numbers.
Anonymous No.96239502 >>96239614 >>96239850 >>96244262
>>96226085 (OP)
Every guardsman carries the firepower equivalent of a .50 BMG (without bullet drop) and 150 round energy packs that they can recharge or spend faster for more firepower. This weighs significantly less than a standard infantryman's kit.
He also wears armor that can stop those .50 caliber rounds, and weighs less than modern armor.
Now considering just about every other piece of equipment they have is on the same level of disparity or worse...

Yeah, the guard would sweep aside every single military on the planet in record time. The US would look like Desert Storm and probably involve a months-long insurgency (I say months instead of decades because the guard would just put everyone into camps and start BLAM-ing anybody suspicious).
The Chinese could probably flood them in sheer bodies and cheap shit for a few months.
Every other country performs worse than the US.
The only way we maybe stalemate things is with nukes, unless they've got a fleet in orbit or we're fighting Kriegers. Then we'd just be making them feel at home.

For every other army it's basically an even worse wash. The Tau are like the guard on steroids that also make you competent. Space Marines are that but the steroids are encased in power armor and genetically augmented. Custodes are the same but the steroids are gold-coated. Tyranids eat this planet in under a month. Orks might stop for a little while if they hit an ocean because they're dumb. Necrons atomize us before we know they exist. Eldar probably wouldn't bother. Dark Eldar would have everyone enslaved before an effective response could be levied.
Anonymous No.96239614
>>96239502
>Space Marines are that but the steroids are encased in power armor and genetically augmented.
They also have the nasty trick of dropping from orbit directly into the middle of your command and control centres and tend to operate in conjunction with conventional Imperial Guard forces. It's a lot harder to fight a toe-to-toe battle against a broadly similar (but much more advanced) army when your troops suddenly lose contact with any sort of high command because a bunch of juiced-up supersoldiers yeeted themselves directly into the heart of your military decision-making and communication centres and killed everyone.
Anonymous No.96239690
>>96226417
Quite a few races have ships that are self healing and repairing - Possessed chaos machinery, Tyranids Hive Fleets, some AM ships, most Eldar Craftworlds (after most of their planets vanished in the slaneesh creating fuckfest resulting in the Eye of Terror). Maybe even ork fleets can survive a while longer due to their 'ork belief powers' and cannibalization of machinery.
Anonymous No.96239699
>>96226417
>Sci-fi ships
We're talking about 40k newfag.
Anonymous No.96239704
>>96226292
>Could earth military deal with 100.000 Tau? Yeah, sure.
Nope. 100k Tau would wipe us out one by one with precision.
>1m nids
They'd probably take over an entire landmass if they're just a gaunt swarm or something. If it's actually a Tyranid host though, we're dead because 1m will become tens and then hundreds in no time flat as they start accruing biomass.
>50k necrons
We couldn't even deal with 1000 bruh.
>5m Orcs
Wtf is an Orc?
If you meant Orks, then no because the entire planet would be spored in no time.
Anonymous No.96239712 >>96239718 >>96239734 >>96241351 >>96241353
>>96235745
Also, modern stuff has realistic ranges. Lasguns shoot 24 inches on the table, that's around 50 metres/yards. A real world stub gun can outshoot that, hell, I can throw a brick further than the distance a lasgun can shoot. Then you have the heavy weapons - 40k armies would be massacred at distances measured in miles, way before they could get into chainsaw range.
Anonymous No.96239718 >>96239734 >>96255408
>>96239712
The RPG ranges are even dumber
Anonymous No.96239734 >>96239744
>>96239712
>>96239718
Tabletop and RPG rules are not canon, secondary. Please go back to gfg so you can cry about having no games.
Anonymous No.96239736 >>96239799 >>96239819
>>96226085 (OP)
Yes. Because all 40k factions would confine all their fighting to a single area the size of a tennis court, be obsessed with capturing the circles we drew on the ground and would only fight for 4-6 salvos of fire before stopping and declaring who the winner is. They would also insist on their General taking part in the battle, who will spend the short battle stood on a of pile of rocks waving a big banner, making it really easy to kill them with artillery/snipers from outside the tennis court and disrupt their command structure.
Anonymous No.96239744 >>96239754
>>96239734
Boohoo, did I upset your fantasy power wank?
Anonymous No.96239754 >>96241279 >>96241316
>>96239744
How would you upset anybody by posting non-canon material? Are you gonna post your fanfiction and ask if it makes me mad next, retard?
Anonymous No.96239799
>>96239736
You posted all of that without noticing that they're all also only like 2 or 3 inches tall?
Anonymous No.96239819 >>96241928
>>96239736
>They would also insist on their General taking part in the battle, who will spend the short battle stood on a of pile of rocks waving a big banner, making it really easy to kill them with artillery/snipers from outside the tennis court and disrupt their command structure.
IRL the British did this regularly in WW1 and WW2 except for the banner waving.
Guess who won those?
Anonymous No.96239850 >>96239860
>>96239502
>the guard is so cool and unstoppable, bro
They get fucked by hobos with crowbar and some metal spikes on them
Anonymous No.96239860
>>96239850
>Headcanon
That's a pretty funny joke, anon.
Anonymous No.96241279
>>96239754
The wargame is the only canon. Everything else is waknery.
Anonymous No.96241316 >>96241353
>>96239754
we get it, you don't actually play 40k.
Anonymous No.96241351 >>96241446 >>96241691
>>96235569
>>96235656
>>96235745
>>96239712
My favorite 40k bit is autistic faggots not comprehending that the game was made first and foremost as a setting for a tabletop wargame and thinking the can safely ignore the lore but because "muh space" and not ignore gameplay concessions.
Anonymous No.96241353 >>96241366
>>96239712
>>96241316
All wargames have shortened ranges, it comes free with playing a game limited to a board.
Anonymous No.96241366
>>96241353
Nope.
Anonymous No.96241446
>>96241351
>oh no table top rules concessions forced GW to write lore of imperial tanks barely driving 30km/h and having ww2 era armor and requiring special variant of tank with special cannon to fire sabot round, that was only produced on single world.
Anonymous No.96241691
>>96241351
Anon, nobody is talking about armor saves and dice rolls here. We're talking about the lore. Lore numbers and details. As the guy who wrote >>96235656 , I even made sure to include references to every piece of lore I brought up. I don't think you read my post, since at no point do I talk about the actual game mechanics.
Anonymous No.96241928 >>96242278 >>96242387
>>96239819
I don't remember seeing any pics of an eight foot tall Churchill leading the troops from the front on D-Day, wielding a maxim machinegun in each hand. The last time we had the army boss leading from the front was Richard III and it didnt end up to good for him.
Anonymous No.96242273
>>96235969
>My guess is that vehicle mounted railguns, super advanced anti armor lasers and reality breaking weapons are just weaker than modern age ATGM.
>Why?
Because your argument is disingenuous and it's more reasonable to assume the inverse with the facts we're given, unless you also figure the entire universe in warhammer is just physically weaker and more easily destroyed your logic doesn't hold up to any kind of scrutiny.
Anonymous No.96242278 >>96242295
>>96241928
Churchill was not a general at any point of his life, anon. You should really read more about history.
Anonymous No.96242295 >>96242350
>>96242278
However Churchill did go patrolling out into No Man's Land several times in WW1. He wasn't a general then either, but it is funny how wrong that guy is in ways he didn't even imagine.
Anonymous No.96242350 >>96242387 >>96244003
>>96242295
Wait, I thought Churchill was like first lord of the admiralty or something during WWI, how in the hell could he have possibly ended up patrolling no-man's land?
Anonymous No.96242387
>>96241928
I don't know what Churchill has to do with a discussion about British Generals. But in WW1 no less than 22 British Generals died from Small Arms fire, and another 34 from Artillery fire while at the front lines. It's quite well known that British officers were often downright fearless in the face of death and deliberately put themselves in harms way without much fuss.
40k is meant to be a satire that incorporates WW1 and WW2 after all. Frankly they could be a bit more extreme about it, last I checked the highest rank the Guard will let you put on the table (not counting lore characters) are Company Commanders.

>>96242350
I don't know about his time in the admiralty but I know he'd been an officer in the 4th Hussars. But here's some accounts for you

https://www.nationalchurchillmuseum.org/churchill-in-world-war-i-and-aftermath.html
https://www.scottishmilitarydisasters.com/index.php/titles-sp-26803/66-churchill-in-the-trenches

>The battalion viewed skeptically a failed politician as commander. But, Winston's personality, military experience, and knowledge overcame their reservations.

>Winston led by example, often venturing into No Man's Land on night patrol. One companion relayed, "He never fell when a shell went off; he never ducked when a bullet went past with its loud crack. He used to say, after watching me duck: 'It's no damn use ducking; the bullet has gone a long way past you by now."
Anonymous No.96242549
>>96226085 (OP)
ignoring retarded numbers that appear in some old 40k books, modern military is currently in not a good position almost no country is ready to fight against a military of equal standing or a total war, even less against a planetary invasion. Our triumph card (nukes) are weaker than most faction triumph cards, and stuff like chaos or genestealer cults only need to get into the planet to doom our future.
Anonymous No.96244003
>>96242350
He became an Army officer after resigning from the Admiralty due to the Gallipolli debacle
Anonymous No.96244262 >>96245701
>>96239502
>he thinks small arms are the deciding factor in war
Guardsman would get absolutely destroyed by guided munitions and artillery before they ever laid eyes on the enemy.
Anonymous No.96245701 >>96245782 >>96246217
>>96244262
>Small arms don't matter!
t. The Zulu before getting buck broken by a couple of british lads
Anonymous No.96245782
>>96245701
I’m pretty sure spears would also count as small arms for that.
Anonymous No.96246217 >>96246245 >>96246319
>>96245701
The fact that you had to go back to the Victorian Era to come up with an example kind of proves the point. Guardsmen would be shredded by tungsten rain and 500 pound bombs if they fought on the modern battlefield because they are just a WW2-tier army in space. Lasguns don't make a difference.
Anonymous No.96246218 >>96246241 >>96246245
>>96226245
The lore isn't clear on how Orks react to radiation. Even if the flash eliminates a crapload of Orks, some lore suggests that the greenskins just shrug off radiation poisoning and just keep fighting. And lets face it: da Orkz would do just that regardless. Earth would be a green world in seven hours.
Anonymous No.96246241 >>96246262 >>96246375
>>96246218
The initial blast is how nukes do the majority of their damage. Radiation is just an unpleasant side-effect.
Anonymous No.96246245
>>96226085 (OP)
I've seen this thread appear again and again, and every time it ends with a sperg fest.

>>96246217
But that's not true. Depending upon where you are in the Imperium, you can find worlds where they're playing laser finger tag with hoverboards. Regiments like the Elysian Strike Troopers use futuristic tactics and technology and the Gaunts Ghosts, books nobody reads apparently, has them using modern (at the time) doctrines.

These threads are just relying on memes for information.

>>96246218
Not just them.
>Nids: adapt to rads.
>Necrons: lel. Contaminated metal.
>Chaos Demons: these things aren't even made out of organic metal.
We lose and we lose hard.
Anonymous No.96246262
>>96246241
Then that means you're going to need an absolute shit load of ICBMs to take out every single Ork. And then there's the fact that not only are Orks fast reproducing as a species, but there's also a crapload of them at any given moment, so you still have massive ork hordes to deal with regardless.
Anonymous No.96246266
>>96226143
Every staff officer's wet dream, for grunts its got plenty of maluses.
>>96226298
>If you apply some common sense you'll easily see guard armies should be in the hundreds of millions which sways the matchup somewhat
Space marine 2 has an audio log that says the death count on Demerium is going up by hundreds of thousands every few seconds (before tzeentch glitchery) which makes a bit more sense for the scale of war erupting over an entire planet
https://youtu.be/8kWS1R93w7o?si=5_Ztj4FWs_vYT2X4&t=140
Anonymous No.96246319
>>96246217
>Nooooo your example is too old it doesn't count!
Lmao
>Guardsmen would be shredded!
Flak stops it, sorry.
>But muh 500 pound bombs
The plane carrying it gets blown out of the sky by a lascannon.
>They are just a WW2-tier army
Cope
>Lasguns don't matter
*watches a tank get melted by an infantry rifle* "t-this doesn't matter, small arms are stupid anyways! what do you mean the airbase got hit with an orbital laser"
Anonymous No.96246340
>>96226085 (OP)
>Could the earth militaries hold out own against codex armies?
The lore is too inconsistent to say anything with weight. For the most part I would expect the 40k stuff to get fucked 6 ways to sunday because a lot of their reference is WW2 gear even if there is a lot of lore says it is much better than that.
Anonymous No.96246375
>>96246241
Nukes primarily damage structures. 90% of Hiroshima's buildings were destroyed, but only 25% of the population died period. And of that, less than 10% died directly from the blast.
Orks are far, far tougher than humans and would probably be capable of surviving anything less than being directly in the crater.
Anonymous No.96255408
>>96239718
This ranges are for calculating modifiers to the attack roll.
Multiply them by 4 to get actual max practical range
Anonymous No.96260839
>>96230027
>there's obviously some reason they don't widely use it in battle.
The reason likely being that the writers didn't think of it.