Death has Come Edition

>Previous thread: >>96222317

>HH 3.0 Leaks
https://files.catbox.moe/98h6h7.pdf
https://gofile.io/d/cnJk0N
>Mech Leaks
https://imgur.com/a/lRaqKSw
>SA Gofile
https://gofile.io/d/YEEqBN
>Knight and Titans
https://imgur.com/a/gETA32z
https://imgur.com/a/UU60bLV
https://imgur.com/a/HqAriJA
https://imgur.com/a/9YS0YJG
Sloptica Journal 1
https://gofile.io/d/3q0Xkt

>New Edition upon us
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)
https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8
https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS
>30k TACTICA & TIPS
https://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/2.0_Tactics/General_Tactics

『Adeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialis』
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/
>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colours
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview
>More lists
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions
>What size magnets do I need?
5x1mm
>Tactics
https://1d6chan.miraheze.orug/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics

>Thread Question:
Will Legacies Cum?

Seriously fuck fuckity fuck. Fucking same 40k enshittification where I can end up making a thematic list that has no army trait/rule. What idiot made it so that AL vehicles are no different than any other fucking legion's?

>>96226985
None of the Legions get vehicles benefits.... Except maybe DG?
Also IH can Buy something for vehicles

>flags so beautiful they literally glow
Personally I think it looks kinda kitschy but I suppose the IV are into that.

>>96226999
That's what I'm saying. They used to be different. Guess I may as well spam rapiers and sell muh tanks. It was so fun to smoke and mirrors something stupid, as if the decoy was a cardboard cutout.

>>96227010
It's like they are ... Angels ...

Headed to another lgs to see if what this edition did to them. Curious to see.

I'm still mad about Dark Angels

>>96226977 (OP)
>Will Legacies Cum?
Yes. But not for me.

>>96226977 (OP)
>TQ
We were always wt war with Eastasia.
Sorry, I meant "we were never going to get a legacies pdf"

>>96227048
Why

>>96226977 (OP)
>Legacies
You're all sick in the head if you're still hanging on. Let it fucking go. GW do not care. There is no passion for the game from the design team, they just want you to buy more slop. We have inconvenienced them by asking for wargear options. They had a very reasonable and achievable deadline and they failed to deliver. That's not an accident, they're a MULTI BILLION DOLLAR COMPANY. They are slapping together a giant pdf of untested slop to placate you

>>96227021
>That's what I'm saying. They used to be different.
Then it was an accidental byproduct/oversight. There isn't a scrap of lore anywhere that justifies an AL vehicle being special.

>>96227096
Killing yourself and blaming GW in the suicide note would really teach them a lesson, and bring attention to the brutality and injustices faced by HH gamers.

>>96227100
I'm just talking tactically. I.e. you'd expect AL to be more likely to set up something akin to fake vehicles, hence the whole smoke and mirrors reaction.

>>96227048

You are now the 'open list building and spamming Prime slots' Legion. This is how the Hexagrammaton is represented now.
It's not as flavourful as it used to be but it's far from unusable and Stormwing is outright good. You aren't the best Legion but you also are not the worst, probably lower-mid.
Could be worse, you could be Word Bearers.

>>96227106
I'm not a loser. I'm just going to enter the 3.0 nuclear bunker of backlog hobbying and occasional games of 2.0

>>96227111
I appreciate what you're saying anon, I'm not full doom and gloom. Loyalty is its own reward after all. I'm disappointed that I can't flex unique special abilities (that other legions seemingly retained from 2.0). Our unique legion units are all very one dimensional. The gambit is whatever. The advanced reaction is cool. I'll definitely have a ton of greatsword master sargeants but I'm not sure how that'll pan out on the table now that artificer armour is gone (a good move though)

Tl;dr: I think we've lost a lot of flavour in exchange for auxiliary detachments

>>96227111
>Could be worse, you could be Word Bearers.
These dark days make Monarchia seem like an almost pleasant experience...

>>96227131
> I think we've lost a lot of flavour in exchange for auxiliary detachments

That's true of every Legion, and especially the Loyalists who seem to have been written by a different team to the Traitors and definitely the Mechanicum.
I'm salty that my Immortals can't have Volkites and that my Gorgons can't get gun upgrades. Shooty-specced Tech Terminators was their whole deal and now they're just a shitty melee unit that might suppress the enemy. FNP is now their most significant aspect, it's just shit.

>>96227146
>And definitely the Mechanicum
We lost 90% of uniqueness to cybertheurgies
They got replaced by a choice of 3 buffs, all Archmagos choices have the same selection of 3 buffs,the only difference is the target unit
The only "faction" that didn't get fucked over are titans and that's it

>>96227111
in no world are dark angels mid. Worst legion trait this edition, bad gambit, weaker primarch than lorgar as brutal still dominates, weaker heroes than Argel Tal because slow footsloggers, plasma does jackshit for DA (unlike S-tier thousand sons plasma), swords limited on who they can go on, no Vanguard/Line on Deathwing, no Vanguard/Line on Cenobium, no Vanguard/Line on Companions, no Vanguard/Line on Interremptors, lost +1 to hit from swords so they dont make up for being the worst in game on objectives by auto-winning fights, loyalist so they run away unlike Malefic chaos infantry. Single use win-more advanced reaction, unlike someone like Scars who can reposition units 12-14" denying vanguards and totally redeploying on different flanks. The gimmick of trying to make up for it by running a master-sergeant with a sword to do duels is pretty balls when enemy brings any actual melee killers. A regular TH sergeant could have a Sigismund or Kharn kill a few chodes and then kill several enemy marines to save his unit from breaking - while the DA champ must accept challenge, get insta-fucked before getting to swing, then DA unit gets massacred - basically giving Kharn/Sigismund free precision.

Dark Angels are D-tier easy. Word Bearers are hovering between C- and D+. The problem with Word Bearers is that some other legions in S/A/B tier do the same things but better. But Dark Angels are just uniquely the worst in their own special fail style.

are there any legion unique units that are a retinue slot?

>>96227165
EC phoenixes, DA dw companions

>>96227165
yes, Deathwing for example.

>>96227131
You'll get your flavour back. DA are already one of a handful of legions who can spam interdiction cadres without a primarch and they're the Legion who can most easily spam Cadres thenks to stormwing.

DA have 5 different kinds of prime slot in their unique aux detachments. every time a support, troop, Recon, retinue or fast attack choice gets a prime which isn't legion locked then its a DA buff.

>>96227165
also wolf kin of russ

>>96227165
also iron circle, deathshorud

>>96227164
Word Bearers literally don't even have a unique Auxiliary detachment. They have no unique wargear, their legion trait is a 10 point upgrade in every other legion and their unique prime is Impact (S).

>>96227174
prime slots are heavily overrated. DA sucks at literally everything, but ooh they can get +1WS for one single sergeant wow.
Other legions such as Iron Hands protected by -1 shooting strength for every trooper is better benefits than any prime advantage that exists. And I'd definitely take EC +1 initiative for entire units over any prime advantage. And I'd definitely take DG's move-and-shoot and ignoring difficult terrain over a prime. And World Eaters +10-20 attacks per unit is better than any master sergeant. Salamanders only wounded 3+ even by lascannons and no panic tests at all from flamethrowers is better than prime advantages.

Dark Angels are trying to cope by having literally everything in their army be bad by clutching to one microscopic buff that's worse than the buffs every other legion gets. It's just pitiful. I feel sad looking at them.

>>96227171
>>96227172
>>96227176
>>96227194
any worth stealing as a bodyguard for my AL commander?

>>96227204
-1 strength from shooting attacks is better than teleporting tactical/despoiler marines who can snapshot/charge in the opponents movement phase?

Every time GW releases a broken prime its going to make dark angels stronger.

>>96227214
If BS8 D3 vigilators are going to dominate the game, DA companions seem like a decent way not to die.

>>96227197
also, nobody would ever pay 10 points for dark angels legion trait as it's literally weaker than word bearers trait.

Ooh you can only drop to failing 60% of leadership tests. Absolutely garbage.

Ooh fear(2) is fear(1), but almost every weapon is only fear(1) and it has no protection at all from panic(3) which is the actual routed status threat.

I wouldn't even pay 5 points per unit for Dark angels modified-cowardice trait.

If Dark Angels could swap theirs with Word Bearers, it'd be an instant accept. +1 combat resolution increases the odds the enemy breaks and runs in real situations (whereas dark angels is just 40% chance to hold when you're losing combat by 7-8 which you shouldnt be allowing in the first place)

>>96227197
I mean they do have a unique aux because only word bearers can get this so

>>96227242
So we're just going to ignore not having an auxiliary detachment when the dark angels get six?

Sure I'll swap my trait for your six auxiliary detachments, I don't even need a legion trait after that. The DA can have mine and keep theirs.

>>96227231
are terminator armour deathwing in legacies? if legacies is real of course

aside from that, and the anti-precision rule they have, what do they do? what can they take?

>>96227220
when your teleporting tactical marines are hampered by being shitty dark angels without a legion trait, Absolutely. Woaaah tacticals appear to shoot at an Iron Hands terminator squad, your bolters need 3+ to hit, 6+ to wound and saved on 2+, 0 wounds inflicted for the entire squad, OH MAAAAN amazing.

>>96227174
>you'll get your flavour back
>>96227220
>Every time GW releases a broken prime its going to make dark angels stronger
Woohoo let's just wait for the paid DLC! I'm sure at some point in the next THREE YEARS we'll get something good, let's just wait and see!

>>96227263
Yes like all the rational people are saying, just wait for the pdf

>new implied 3 year cycle
>zone mortalis is 'scheduled' one year from launch
>GW likes to tell you to stop caring about [current" edition] 6 to 9 months before the next one
>roadmap is already off the rails because they're scrambling to port existing units into 3.0
>Zone Mortalis will be a broken mess with less than half the game's planned life cycle left

GW hasn't even started on Zone Mortalis, and now it includes the units they didn't want to work on in the first place. It's obvious management didn't budget enough time and labor on the rules from the beginning, so what they'll end up doing is shitting out ZM late because there wont be enough time to support or care about it. At this point, they're just planning on releasing something in order to say ZM was part of 3.0.
Why is this so predictable? Why does existence have to be so fucking gay and lame?

>>96227277
>DA are so trash that their strategy is wishing upon a magic star that paid DLC will bring them something to save their butthole because it hurts so much from constantly being raped
Straight up stockholm syndrome.

>>96227287
considering they missed their deadlines, zone mortalis ALPHA TEST will come in january instead of november. Will be absolutely half-assed then abandoned for 4th edition just like 40k instantly ditched Boarding Patrol after pretending it was gonna be a thing for 1 week.

>>96227287
July to Nov is not 1 year

>>96227252
Thats an apex detachment retard, you get one of those in your whole army by taking a high command choice.

Taking that means missing out on the other Apex detachments. If you take conclave it becomes impossible for word bearers to ever field more than a single retinue choice which you would need to select via logistical advantage from your command or troop prime in the primary.

Its also like, just worse than taking the core rulebook elite apex detachment.

>>96227252

That's an Apex. Not Aux

>>96227277
Meanwhile other legions will also get their special snowflake DLC lmao

>>96227286

I think all the rational people have worked out that HH3 is looking a bit shit and they should stick with what they already have

>>96227287
GW just announced a four year edition cycle you idiot fag.
That's why there are now 'four legs' of the stool in Roundtree's address. It's 40k, AoS, TOW , and HHG

They changed the layout of the 30k downloads so everything isn't "new" anymore with a recent update category. Good news? Bad? We'll never know because 30k is cancelled.

>>96227263
>are terminator armour deathwing in legacies?
yeah they should be there
>what can they take?
they are com squads with eternal warrior and can buy 5++ and terranic greatswords/PFists (they have ap3 DA breaching 5+ power swords by default). They don't have a champion though

>>96226977 (OP)
Jetbikes are done, Chaplain is next

Post Models my lads

>>96227264
If you want to shoot iron hands terminators with bolters and play like a complete retard then playing 30k at all is probably not for you you disingenuous fuckwit.

Alternatively. Your Iron Hands opponent can play with the understanding that if he ever moves his Rapiers for any reason 10 despoilers are going to leap out of a bush and jump them. Thats absolutely a useless bonus huh.

>>96227327
Do people go cataphractii or tartaros?

>>96227337
I've seen only flying companions in 2.0 (not terminators), but they can't fly now.

>>96227337

For the first time I think Tartaros have it. Cataphractii are just too slow now and they are so durable already that I'd prefer the speed over the invul.
Cataphractii are now so slow that they cannot realistically charge anything that doesn't want to be charged.

>>96227328
glorious!

>>96227309
Every legion gets special snowflake DLC but every time GW releases any generic prime or any prime thats locked to troops, support, retinue, fast attack or recon then guess what? Thats also dark angels DLC.

Also obligatory >buying books.

>>96227252
Read again anon

>>96227317
lmao he never wrote those words you secondary bitch. You just fucking watched the most recent Square Based video and are babbling backs talking points you heard them hammer, without consulting the primary document. Faggot!

If anyone responds to this post with dubs, I will record a video of myself ripping apart the 3.0 rulebook much like in the link.

https://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1753963331048295.mp4

Coming July 38th

>>96227385
Based

>>96227317
>the planned obsolescence is 12 more months
So we can expect feigned support for 2 years? Dang, you have a real point there.
We're already in failed "day one patch" mode, the various levels of management do not care about the quality. They are pushing consoom culture instead of a stable rule set, and it's antithetical to what most HH fans are looking for.

>>96227397
>https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/dpjkoxo7/saturnine-terminator-construction-advice-how-to-get-the-most-out-of-your-new-tactical-dreadnought-armour/
>its real

>>96227397
>Confirmation that they're making it up as they go along.

>Confirmation that they never intended to give back the options removed in the libers

Lmao. It's not a game it's a cash grab

>>96227385
dubs for blackshields

>>96227385
> The magnificent new Saturnine Terminators are now available in the Saturnine box for Warhammer: The Horus Heresy, Age of Darkness, and Forge Lords across the galaxy are assembling their warriors.

What the fuck is a forge lord, if only I had a Legacies pdf to tell me

>>96227403
>dozens of different ways
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKie-vgUGdI

>>96227258
>>96227252
>>96227197
Yeah add it to the pile of fucking lies

>>96227403
>>96227397
if next week ends saturday the 9th, that means it technology could drop July 40.

>>96227429
*technically, ignore the typing while reading something else

>>96227403
What a confusing article. They share assembly instructions for a kit that is sold with assembly instructions.

>>96227407
>GW Defenders: Trust the plan!
>It's been done obviously
>They aren't adding a bunch of new stuff because of leaks
GW shitters absolutely btfo'd. Everyone now gets the final stamp on their "you can bully GW defenders" gold card. This was it, the final straw. You have permission to enjoy playing the game with models because that means you're not secondary. But anyone who defends doesn't even have a structured debate podium and will be disregarded.

>>96227437
they needed someplace nobody would look in which to bury the story about july 40th release of legacies. And nobody bought saturnines so it's a safe place.

>>96227258
WBs wouldn't even need all 6 Wing detachments frankly, I'd trade our legion trait for any aux but Ironwing gauntlet.

>>96227437
It's poseable which confuses the monopose 40klets

>>96227397
>>96227429

>>96227385
>>96227411
Do it faggot

>>96227403
>>96227398
Literally
"We gotta announce it's delayed but if we make a whole article people will think it's a big deal! Quick, someone post the saturnine assembly manual!"

>>96227437
>"How to get the most out of the new unit"
Step 1: Build them according to the instructions
There is no step 2

>>96227397
It is clear that they wanted the rules to be in the journals to sell them piecemeal. Thank you leaker anon, you are truly the greatest hero of the warhammers.

>>96227471
>>96227462
>>96227446
>>96227437
Holy fucking shit you paranoid schizo's are right

>>96227411
>>96227461
Will do. Please screenshot this post, I fully intend to deliver. Don't hold your breath, but I will deliver.

I'm not gonna sing the praises of the core rules, but I do think they could at least in theory serve as the foundation for a decent game. Which makes it all the more frustrating that the libers are, well, just the way they are.

>>96227397
>There are so many mistakes in the rulebook and liber that they had to delay the legacy to fix the core books first.
It's over.

>>96227440
It was obvious from the beginning and anyone who thought otherwise was retarded, a shill or both retarded AND a shill.

>guys you don't understand i work corporate no way GW can write up a pdf document last minute they've had the legacy doc prepared for months.

They were half right at least, GW could not in fact write a PDF document last minute.

>>96227483
nigger

>>96227481
It's a shame they had him executed

>>96227050
Based ordinatus chad

>>96227496
Is this genuinely how people work? I could whip up a crack team of cracked autists to draft a beautiful legacies document in a couple of days with a shoestring budget

>>96227397
They just can't do anything right, it's been blunder after blunder ever since they started those stupid Horus Hearsay ads

>>96227501
They sure are trying
Detective Pardo on the case!

>>96227483
>>96227461

It's funny because I clicked on the wrong post to reply to.
Emperor's will I suppose.

>>96227526
Unfortunately he's tied up with the Midtown Murder-midget report. A much more sophisticated case, really.

>>96227536
>"So this James fella, he raped your...leebers?"

>They didn't respect the deadline they set themselves, just according to keikaku.
How can people even defend? What manner of brainwashing do they have to go through to become like this? There is no saving them, is there?

leakanon saved all of us....he saved all of heresy
he informed people of the lies GW were spouting
he exposed the removal of customization

without him, we would have ordered the box, the books, and got duped by GW with a 7 page legacies document to try and make up for it

I KNEEL.

I just realised they're going to be dropping nuscale cataphractii in the same edition where Cataphractii are finally nerfed. Lmao.

>>96227550
I dont know how someone can defend the legacies pdf dropping a couple of days late, its inexcusable really.

>>96227567
Screenshot this.

>>96227397
We tumbling this edition, hitting every step as painfully as possible.

>>96227567
Imagine being this much of a shill

>>96227567
Time to get a real job Pardo. I know it's hard making 3.0 look good for some reason, whatever that might be

>>96227242
>it has no protection at all from panic(3)

because all of your units are rocking a 9/9/9/9 statblock obvs

>>96227550
Hey buddy

>>96227586
Sup.

>>96227548
>Tuomas Pirinen
>Inch Crusade

>>96227567
because they're a normal adult, and not australian? fuck you, australia

>>96227485
they're a broken foundation. LoS and terrain rules are entirely unsalvageable in HH3 and will need to be thrown out. The whole charging and melee rules also not worth saving at its current state. Deepstrike is entirely broken foundation as well. The moving and shooting heavy weapons are a dogshit idea too, it should be a very rare special rule, not the default state. The status is sorta an interesting idea but there's no justification between leadership and cool being separate stats. It needs to simply go back to Leadership, Willpower (for psychic) and they can keep Intelligence (for repairs/objectives) if they want though it doesnt really add anything.

>>96227397
DISCORD TROONS AND SHILLS IN SHAMBLES
> BU BU BUT THIS WAS ALWAYS PLANNED!!!!
LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOO THATS WHY ITS DELAYED BECAUSE IT WAS ALWAYS PLANNED RIGHT?
TOTAL SHILL DEATH

>>96225300
Talons as well to a lesser extent, Shield-Captains have a stronger version but that barely qualifies for a Centurion/Praetor distinction. Not even Terminator or bike variants, surely a few other odd specialists could add flavor in an edition that's inherently far more character heavy by virtue of detachments.

>>96227598
Lmao fuck that Finnish midge

>>96227586
Biel-Tan best craft world, fuck Yvraine.

>>96227550
I've seen people too busy to begin things like new editions right away, so they end up not caring about delays. It's less of a defense, more of a handwave on how it's affecting them personally.

reminder that I know someone who unironically got mad that the edition leaked early

and also gets mad about the negativity of the edition, says its the "best written rules heresy has ever had" but hasnt played a game yet

>>96227637
It was the first pic I came across in my downloads along with one of my aliases from the days of sharing pdfs on volafile. I haven't changed those since I made that account after the exodus out of a certain general.

>>96227612
I've seen the same person on discord literally go from
>It's just leaks we haven't seen the whole book
>The pdf is ready to fire
>Ha! You see! The tartaros power fist was just a typo
>They're waiting for people to try out the game as is before giving us more stuff
>They're just rewriting it because of the whiners online, there weren't any problems before people started whining

>>96227661
Just Troon things I guess

are the FAQ team different to the legacies team?

I dont understand why tartaros siege terminators exist if they just FAQ'd in power fists
they even said that the siege terminators are how you'll get power fists on tartaros

So it's over

>>96227683
Post that because they will probably try to scrub it from the internet

>>96227683
All specialist games share just one team for everything
That's why 3.0 is a weird amalgam of HH, necromunda and TOW

>>96227683
>>96227407
I don't know how to put it any clearer. They have produced an incomplete product with the explicit intention of selling the rest of it to us piecemeal over the course of 3 years. They don't care about "the hobby" and they barely see it as "a game". They just want you to shut the fuck up and give them your money

>>96227683
Because tartaros shiege terminators have those old FW shields.
'Shiege terminatros' doesn't sound like 'having power fists'

>>96227700
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/p0y6yx4s/legacies-of-the-age-of-darkness-what-you-need-to-know/

its in the article, above the photo of the destroyers

>>96227700
Here's one piece of the puzzle. They used a picture of a tartaros with powerfist amd combi bolter when advertising the legacies document too

Has anyone ever said this? "Boris Bear-esy."
On account of how the Rushins are often associated with bears. And Brois is a common Rushin name. I just thought it tickled my fancy so I came to share it. Please credit if reposting elsewhere.

>>96227717
Very funny because it's not like destroyers without jump packs were in the libers either

>>96227711
Only mention of tartaros in the article is the siege terminators
What else were we supposed to understand?

>>96227717
I mean, to be fair, whoever it's writing the legacies or FAQ, it certainly isn't the warcom intern
The articles always say pretty weird things that sound like the person writing them only has superficial knowledge of the games and setting. Probably some random social media manager without any hobby experience
It's definitely not the first time they write something that makes no sense

>>96227716
>Space Wolves: Jorlund Hunter Pack, Fenrisian Wolf Pack, Speaker of the Dead

>>96227731
As a rule of thumb never trust anything on warcom to be honest...
Pretty sure the random internt who wrote the article was just given a list of units to post in there and doesn't actually have anything to do with the legacies pdf or the errata. He was just told fist tartaros are a thing and made up the connection themselves
I still think the tartaros not having termie weapons in the liber was a run of the mill fuck up and there's no new kit with no options coming.
But I also believe all the legion gear going away is absolutely so they can sell it on paid dlc later. And that's probably what has them scrambling to add it to the pdf since they got a lot of backlash for it

>>96227753
>>96227741
>"Don't trust the official communications of the multi billion dollar company bro"
>"it's probably a random intern"
What are you even saying here? We should be lenient with them for doing a shit job because...they don't know any better?

>>96227753
I know that anon, I'm just illustrating how bad of a fuck up GW is that their people in charge of advertising have zero information about what they're supposed to be selling

>>96227683
>they even said that the siege terminators are how you'll get power fists on tartaros
Being "fair" in the most clinical sense. No, they actually didnt. They said "hopefully this article reassures people tartaros powerfists arent going away" and stated that "tartaros siege terminators" are in the legacy pdf. Those two being linked (i,e tartaros siege terminators are just tartaros terminators with fists or whatever) was never stated, just logically inferred.

>>96227775
I'm not telling you to be lenient. I'm saying to not go on wild conspiracy theories just from a random paragraph on a warcom article because they are wrong 20% of time

>>96227753
>>96227741
No outs, no caveats. Outword it is all GW. They as a company fucked up and it doesn't matter who's to blame within. They are a multi billion dollar company and we should expect better.

>>96227783
The same goes for example for volkite breaches. Veteran breaches COULD be just breaches with the missing options, but we dont know that , we can just infer it. Veteran breaches might instead be tactical veterans with shields or whatever else (which just so happen to be able to represent various missing breached configurations).

>>96227581
>>96227555
>>96227526
I went back to look at the old threads and Pardo's channel and I hate him even more now. You know why?
His "ugly bad and the good" video, when he was "complaining about the missing wargear"
He only mentioned stuff that we had leaks for at the time
That means he 100% didn't plan to mention it until the last minute and fished his criticism from social media

>>96227407
I'm not gonna defend GW but we both know they can't add dozens of units in a single week.

>>96227807
So maybe they should have added them in the 3 years they were working on this
Just a thought

>>96227800
Most was leaked by that point. Including the big ticket complaints that get brought up most to this day. Your conclusion is pretty baseless on an impartial accounting. Fuck Pardo.

>>96227783
>was never stated, just logically inferred.
That's bullshit and you know it. If I say "I really hope you'll pay me the money you owe me." and then follow it up with "Your Family's kneecaps are so... fragile.", sure, I didn't state what'll happen, but every reasonable person knows what I mean.

Similarly, Tartaros Siege termies are the only generic tartaros unit listed in the Legacies. How would the legacies prove fist tartaros exist if not via them?

>>96227794
They never specified the volkite breachers the way they did the tartaros fists.

>>96227783
>just logically inferred
Hey that Tartaros Siege Squad don't seen to have an excessive amount of heavy weapons. Wonder what their unique features are

Am I right to assume that the old 40k combi gravs probably aren't kosher?

>>96227807
The fuck are you on about? Yes you can

>>96227833
anons have theorized they'll be getting TH/SS but who knows

all heavy weapon tartaros WOULD be cool though

>>96227838
Correct

>>96227841
but why give this option to tartaros, the less durable and more mobile terminator armor, who shouldn't be trying to get into long ranged shooting matches

>>96227839
I just don't think they are competent enough to do it that fast so there has to be some other reason (fuckup) for the delay.

>>96227841
Well GW are going to have to have a little think and see what they can slop together now that fists are errata'd aren't they?

>>96227753
Let's do a forensic analysis of the book here and I'll tell you what I think happened
There's a "terminator weapons" list
This list is just used by one type of terminator, on its unit types (command squad and regular)
It is not used on the other type of terminator or on any special legion Terminator
The other type of terminator had its wargear options repeated on all its unit types (command and regular)
Why do a shorthand list for one and not the other? Furthermore, why make a shorthand list for just two units?
What this indicates is that the terminator weapons list was originally intended for all terminators but the specific unit entries were changed after the fact
This makes sense for the legion terminators but why the tartaros?
The most likely explorators is that someone from the model team came down last minute (remember, GW departments rarely talk to each other more than necessary) and told them about the new kit not having fists

>>96227821
>If I say "I really hope you'll pay me the money you owe me." and then follow it up with "Your Family's kneecaps are so... fragile.", sure, I didn't state what'll happen, but every reasonable person knows what I mean.
Yes, thats called a logical inference. People say that sort of shit exactly because explicitly saying "I will break your familys kneecaps if you dont give me my money" tends to get you in trouble.

>How would the legacies prove fist tartaros exist if not via them?
They, one again, did not explicitly state that fist tartaros are coming back in legacies. They simply said fist tartaros would be coming back and that this article should reassure you of that, and then said that there are going to be "tartaros siege terminators" in the legacies pdf.

You can argue whether it was a reasonable assumption to make that connection or whether it wasnt (it was at the time), but it was an assumption, an inference based on no explicit statement. Them adding tartaros power fists back through the errata isnt them now lying or contradicting themselves, not based on any explicit statement.

>>96227833
Crazy how those "tartaros siege terminators" arent labeled and yet you somehow know what they are.

>>96227854
I don't mean to be overtly hostile bro, but we shouldn't be excusing a fuckup on this scale as incompetence. They're really fucking with the (currently splintering btw) HH community

>>96227783
>just logically inferred.

but do we have to have weeks of squealing from people who assume inductive reasoning is going to give them deductive results

do you think it would get this bad with him still around?

>>96227816
Only the Astartes was
And only partially
He really only mentioned that initial stuff
Go back and watch it

>>96227863
No, the missing units would be coming in the next book released a year or two from now instead.

>>96227863
Yes. He would have left by now or been canned.

>>96227863
He would have left the company or become as bad as Andy Hoare, so yes

>>96227859
>>96227857
You Ignorant fuckers. Look at the photo of tartaros terminators used in the legacies article:
>>96227833

>>96227859
>an inference based on no explicit statement
An inference based on the only possible way for that statement to not be a lie.
Which unit other than the tartaros siege squad could possible have given them back their fists?

>>96227863
Unironically worse

>>96227863
yeah
there's only so much one man can do to stave off suit'n'tie niggas' meddling

PDF is coming next week...

>>96227877
Why would you think that?

>>96227861
I'm not excusing anything. I just don't buy that the reason for the delay is thay they are quickly adding dozens of units to the pdf in reaction to the outrage because I don't see them capable enough to work and react that fast. The delay is still their fault, I just think the cause is something else.

>>96227877

>>96227870
You're not fooling anyone pardo

>>96227882
how about this
they already had the legacies ready to go, but they were all going to be released as part of JTs, and now they're scrambling to intentionally enshittify their profiles, so they can rerelease the "fixed" units in JTs down the line, and pat themselves on the back for listening to the fans and fixing issues.

>>96227397
>Legacies AND Militia in the same month
uh based :)

For the storm battery detachment do you only get access to one of them via the siege breaker consul? Or, is it just an unlock and you can take them like any other detachment?

This also applying for how detachments gained via other consuls as well I suppose.

>>96227880
You are right of course. James is a dirty liar and we can only be sure of the PDFs release once it's downloadable...

>>96227887
I'm arguing that it's apparent Tartaros fists were meant to be the siege squad. Evidence is pretty clear. Not sure why I'm being accused of being a halfling shill

>>96227898
Well, you were citing a source explicitly proving the prior statement on this matter to be false.

>>96227900
That's what I'm arguing too so why are you speeding out at me?

>>96227857
It is way more likely that the text has changed several times and they forgot to update it on tataros.
Because otherwise the explanation would be that the tartaros new kit they haven't shown or teased at all, somehow has access to lightning claws but no power fists. In the edition where they recycle every power fist to make lightning claws and when they already do that in the current tartaros kit
A copy-paste error is way more likely than the design team going out of their way to remove power fist from a new kit when they need them for the claws

Reminder that GW employees have names and addresses.

>>96227905
Idk anon. Sorry if you're catching flak, it's all aimed at James and his shills

>>96227908
IRL doxing is gay, even pardo faggins doesnt deserve manure being shipped to his hobbit hole.

>>96227908
Genuinely an illegal post in the UK

>>96227908
And email addresses. Surely there must be an internal email format that can be cracked to just send normal emails.

>>96227908
reminder that GW employees have skin

>>96227908
Reminder that GW stopped creditting sculptors and rules writers after upside-down-bolter-gate and tourists of Prospero dropped.

What the hell is upside-down-bolter-gate

>>96227870
Yea? What about them. They also used a photo of the saturnine box and its not like those units are in the legacy pdf either.
>but thats different, from the context you can understand that its not meant to be in the legacy pdf and is instead meant to be about the new edition release
And from the context the beginning of the article is talking about general missing options and armies, not just legacies. Talons of the emperor, demons and imperial army are all also mentioned.
Tartaros terminators, a unit which was missing options in the liber (but got those options later - the actual main topic of the article) being used makes sense outside of "clearly this is what the tartaros siege squad are".

Would assuming those were the tartaros siege squad have been unreasonable? No. But its not the same as "here is an image of the tartaros siege squad" attached to the image.

>>96227873
>Which unit other than the tartaros siege squad could possible have given them back their fists?
As it turns out? "tartaros terminators", since they just got the option errata'd back in.

Once again, they never actually said "this option would be coming back in the legacy pdf", they just said "this article should hopefully assure you the option will be coming back" in an article about the legacy pdf. Once again, there is a difference between an explicit statement and an implication. There is a difference between going by what is literally said and what you inferred. When you infer something, even if its reasonable and logical and whatever else, and it doesent turn out to be true, thats not the same as the other guy lying.

>>96227960
Your based and redpilled pre 2.0 models, sir

>>96227960
The SW model had bolter that was upside-down I believe.

What would it take for (You) to forgive GW? They have proven that they simply don't care for any of their players in all facets and lied multiple times now.

How can they earn back your trust? Please tell me the head manager has been heckling me all wee-

>>96227966
>Would assuming those were the tartaros siege squad have been unreasonable? No. But its not the same as "here is an image of the tartaros siege squad" attached to the image.
Grow a pair. I agree you're technically correct, but what you're doing is semantic wriggling

>>96227581
his original job is being a graphic designer, said so on stream

Let me tell you a story, /HHG/.
I've been coming here for some time, even before ATG got shoehorned in out of pity, and I like you cynical lot very much.

30k died with Bligh.

The loss of Forge World as a separate creative entity closed the door entirely for 1.0 and the vision that was needed for the IA books and Horus Heresy.
Alan was a force of nature and penned both the lore and the rules, which is why the rules resonated with the lore so well in most of 1.0.

Remember that the original plan was for The Old World to get Horus Heresy style leather-bound books? Most people have forgotten this, since GW design studio proper seized the idea and this project got dropped. Alan was writing these books in his free time, as a passion project, same as 30k started years back.


Anyway, Malevolence was still mostly Bligh, with some final work done by French and Hoare, and the book released posthumously.

They had John French tie together the narrative scraps that Alan left after his death and that became Crusade, which did not even get a new book title. It kept is working title and was a rush release, and much thinner than planned. The Dark Mechanicum rules and models got cut entirely.

After that the game entered a lull because the source of it all had died and the handful if writers were working on 2.0 and other projects.

Anuj came in and tried to reanimate 1.0 it as best he could (he was non game designer) to get some buzz going on, but he was mostly doing the forework and prep for 2.0.

He left the company before it was done and the SDS under leadership of Andy Hoare finished it as best they could within company deadlines.
With the roster of 30k being so vast, 2.0 was again rushed to meet deadlines, and a lot was cut from the game.

>>96228000
Yes, thats what im doing.
The statement "GW said that the siege terminators are how we would get back power fists" is technically wrong based on the semantics of the article. You could argue they strongly implied it (something I would agree with, up until the errata I think everyone believed that) but it is not literally true, they did not literally state that thing.

Its worth pointing out because it prevents more and more hysterical hyperbole. There is a difference between "the reading we got from the article was incorrect" and "GW explicitly lied to us", and if the former is treated as the latter the latter ceases to carry much weight.

>>96227994
Bring back corporate responsibility.

>>96227897
Anyone?

>>96227939
geez do you think maybe the rape threats from guys who think they're owed a free pdf on an arbitrary date so they can keep playing with their landfill and pretending its toys for big boys might be something to do with it

>>96227897
Take as many as you want.

>>96227897
You get 1 storm battery per siege breaker.

>>96227994
If they killed the game so we can become the second Mordheim before the game gets ruined and any chance of a post mortem community evaporates

>>96227863
No.

>>96227939
Pretty sure they stopped crediting rules writers because of all the death threats Matt Ward got.

>>96226977 (OP)

>>96228053
Rape threats?

>>96227994
Keep releasing plastic models that aren't shit.

>>96227555
Need a fuck Pardo edit

>>96227994
>What would it take for (You) to forgive GW?
Forgive them for what? being late with a pdf? idk, putting out more consistent updates I guess?

>>96227994
Execute the rules team and Pardo on stream

>>96227994
There not being a 4e and 3e being evergreen. Use journals to port in old stuff like drop pod assault to act like a menu of optional rules. If there's brand new unit kits, I mean brand new never released and not a kitbash, use journals for them too.

>>96228120
>evergreen 3e

>>96227908
>raptors' screeching is canon autism
lol
lmao

>>96228039
This cope might have been passable 2 weeks ago but now it just makes you look like a shill.

>>96228078
Look, I wasn't the biggest fan of Matt Ward either, but sending somebody death threats over how they treated your game of plastic toy soldiers is beyond fucking pathetic.

>>96227960
Jealous lies.

>>96227966
>"tartaros terminators"
Not in legacies.
>they just said "this article should hopefully assure you the option will be coming back"
Why would the article reassure me of that if nothing in the article is related?

Sure, it's a logical inference rather than an outright explicit statement, but the law recognises that there's levels of reasonable interpretation (Ranging from "No reasonable person could take it this way" to "A reasonable person could only take it this way"), I don't see why you can't.

There is no way any reasonable person can infer what happened from what they said. If only schizos can understand your advertising, then you've failed as a marketer.

>>96228038
This is why I am slowly buying all the IA and black books. Thanks for the read anon.

>>96227994
>What would it take for (You) to forgive GW?
- return to long-term supported edition
- return to modular, multi-part kits
- respectful marketing over tongue-in-cheek. You only get to do the latter when your customers like you.
- no more nu-designs
- some actual meaningful customer engagement
- basic QA

>>96228130
I didn't say there is a chance. The post asked what it would take for me to forgive GW. That is it. It won't happen, I know it, but I answered the question.

>>96228039
>not literally state that thing.
You're the guy who argues a man didn't kill you, the bullet did. it's a distinction without a meaningful difference.

LISTEN UP YOU SQUABBLING MAGGOTS, FAGGOTS, AND TRANNIES

Enough of this whining. We are going to break HH 3.0 wide open. What are the most toxic, cancerous, and downright effective strategies to break this godforsaken tabletop game? You think you're some hardcore armchair general? Ready to deploy your legions on a crusade of vengeance?

BREAK. THIS. GAME

>>96228183
Don't argue with Pardo, he'll just keep moving the goalposts

>>96228210
+1 if you can break it while spending as little as possible, be a pest, an effective and wise with his money pest.

>>96228210
No.

Everyone post models and games instead. Getting tac spam TS ready. 30k is for bricks of infantry.

>>96228060
>>96228068
Which is it?

>>96228221
Every army is now an alternative color scheme for either thousand sons or raven guard

>>96228228
I'll take 2.0 RG with the Talons rule changed to "To hit" over 3.0 RG any day.

>>96227994
>What would it take for (You) to forgive GW?
James' head on a pike as a reminder to the next ten editions.

>>96228222
I've been doing some thinking and TS pyrae despoilers minmaxxing initiative steps seem very good.

>>96228210
Interdiction Cadre spam
Malefic spam
Malefic tanks

>>96228235
Same. Such an easy fix.

>>96228222
I forgot to take my progress pics on my next 5 gal vorbak last night, so have what I'm planning to work on for the next month instead

Todays Tiny people ready

>>96228210
If line triggers for every unit on the objective then it's tactical spam

>>96228269
Only one unit can control a single objective.

>>96227863
Yeah.
His work was shit even before the cancer hit and there was an excuse for the shit quality (if you unironically defend Inferno you need to die)

>>96228237
>The year is 2040
>You tune in to SN battle reports for their review of Horus heresy 15th edition
>(There is now a new edition releases every 6 months)
>Pardo appears on screen, wheelchair bound from a failed limb lengthening surgery
>"Overall I think having only two legions playable at launch is really healthy for the game. Of course it's much easier to balance and if you're one of those people who really wants to play with the models you already have just wait a few months for the next edition"
>You stare at a bottle of liquor and the shotgun on your wall wondering if today is finally the day

>>96227908
> GUYS GO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT
> Oh me do something? Of course not
Unironically kill yourself

>wondering how the hell I'm going to convert some combi grav
>remember I still have some left over grav bits from my myrmidons I could slap on top a bolter
Alright, would THIS work for a combi-grav?

>>96228038
This story isn't news to fucking anyone.
'Cool' you are some British faggot, also get off this website it's illegal for you

>>96228305
Use the 40k combi-grav as a base, swap out the muzzle and add the little cylinders onto the barrel.

>>96228078
GW used it as an excuse to stop crediting writers so it could justify paying them less and giving them less exposure to trap them in the company. They HATED other companies getting to say shit like 'designed by Andy Chambers' and 'designed by Alessio' as part of their marketing. They don't want you to enjoy a Writers work. They want you to enjoy GW PRODUCTS.
Don't fucking think for an instance it was concern for safety

>>96228322
...wouldn't it be easier to just off the box bit and glue it on top a bolter? This is a 3d printed bit it's not going to survive trying to snip multiple pieces off

>>96227994
>How can they earn back your trust?
Make any gaming product that is genuinely designed to be a good, complete product that people will want, rather than some minimum viable product riddled with deliberate content deletions and errors.

Iron Hands or Death Guard, bros?

>>96227994
Get the folks who designed titanicus to do the next HH edition. Alternating activations and such.

We need to sacrifice some people, like literally, we need to kill some people for the future of heresy. We have to shred some blood for the greater good. Greatness requires sacrifice. We have spent so much money and time on this hobby, killing a few gw employees who only work to bring misery will be completely justified. Just think about it brother

>>96228370
Word Bearers are gay and so are you

>>96228348
Luv me some metal mittens, but Morty's boys have a superior color scheme.

>>96228363
The head writer for the first version of AT is James Hewitt and he doesn't release complete games.

>>96228370
>glowie behavior

Which will be the first Legion to get custom Saturnine minis?

>>96228378
Vastly superior. And I actually have some power scythes laying around, but I love the genuine retardation of the IH and their over the top antics (dropping a moon on the World Eaters). They’re also the loyalist legion I’d think is most likely to teamkill so I can play against anyone without it bothering me lol.

>>96228377
They took everything from us... this was just like the destruction of monarchia...
>>96228390
But if something like that actually happened we would win and they would lose which is something our enemies wouldn't want
Also I'm not calling anyone to do it, I'll be doing it myself eventually

>>96228395
I suppose we might get a special character at some point. Probably a Salamander if so. Might be interesting to see if the sculptors do anything interesting with the design when working on a resin cast.

>>96228395
None, no one will receive any new miniatures because this edition is dead. You will get 6 months of drip fed books because those were already printed abd nothing else.

>>96228370
These posts are literally being made as a future excuse for why they got rid of Heresy

>>96228417

>HH dies

>WB never got a bespoke Terminator squad before it did

>>96228038
>Remember that the original plan was for The Old World to get Horus Heresy style leather-bound books?
When was this ever said

>>96228412
>us
>our
>we
>"i'm not trying to convince anyone"
it's just you with the schizo fantasies
fuck off glowie

>>96228395
Physically, as in molded legion icons? No idea. Ruleswise? They just announced Word Bearers are getting a unit and TS are getting an arcana for Saturnine specifically in the next journal?

>>96228412
Actually kys

>>96228424
Bespoke terminators are gay anyway, not every legion needs them just like not every legion needs a bespoke jump pack or bike squad.

>>96228343
It's just resin. Alternatively, get some of those Tigrus combi-weapons, cut the muzzle off of them and glue the grav muzzle on. Simple and effective.

>>96228348
Iron Warriors.

>>96228264
How feasible would it be to put the marines on individual bases?
Thinking of 28mm rules on 6mm scale

>>96228395
Models? None.

Apparently Baal's garrison included a bunch of Saturnine termies called the Colossi who somehow held off the planetary siege throughout the whole war.

>>96228458
Not, just five each marine base X wounds to represent 5 models

>>96228437
>arcana for Saturnine
Bets? My money is on move and shoot both guns. Maybe, gets rid of overload or improves it by 1 to 0. What I actually want is the plasma to specifically be aetherfire without overload.

>>96228458
Just use normal 5 marine stands and put dices next to them to count casualties. Also make inches into cm.

Stupid sexy Fulgrim

>>96228448
Gross

>>96228421
That would a much preferable alternative to where it's going right now. I would still continue building my army and playing the game.
>>96228436
I'm a fanatic, I'm a true bearer of the words
>>96228439
You will regret this

How come Azkaellon never had rules? He's a fairly prominent character in the novels, arguably more so than even Raldoron.

>>96228363
>Alternating activations and such.
Stop with this meme.

>>96228502
>wanting more BL slop
Kill yourself

>>96228502
They never made a model for him. They'll keep making characters so maybe at some point.

>>96228519
It is the superior way to play

>>96227838
>>96227842
Why not? I just modelled one on ffs

>>96228564
40k grav guns are a post heresy pattern

>mfw The Scouring will feature Autek Mor
>mfw The Scouring will have to address the marked/unmarked Ultras
>mfw The Scouring will give us canon colors and introduce some twist about the Wolf Brothers
>mfw The Scouring will have to reconcile like 12 different conflicting stories about how/why Luther and Lion fought
>mfw The Scouring will explain Soul Drinkers
>mfw The Scouring will Loyalist Iron Warriors remnants becoming the Minotaurs
>mfw The Scouring will have political Traitors confronting Chaos Traitors and realizing Horus was the bad guy

>>96228550
First, no, and second, it's not warhammer.

>>96228588
So are twin las canon predators

>>96228564

Graviton Gun =/= Grav Gun
Both use weaponised gravity but the mechanism and aesthetics are different. A Grav Gun is anachronistic to the setting.
In the same way that a Primaris Bolter will get stink eye despite Boltguns being fine.

>>96227838
>>96228564
>>96227842
>>96228588
Ultima-pattern combi-grav

>>96228608

Forgot me pic

>>96228608
>anachronistic to the setting
Like the crux terminatus and the godwyn bolters in the Black Books? lole

>>96226985
All they were in 2.0 was being 2" further away, which in the world of vehicles is proportionally smaller because they move faster than infantry and are attacked by long range heavy weapons. Is it really that different?

>>96228603
Y'all complain so much about Warhammer anyway, might as well try something else

>>96228609
An excellent response, if the complaint was the bolter half.
But it's not, it's the grav half.

Just realized but hasn't the Kratos become pretty good?
It's Stable so it always counts as stationary and it can fire all guns to any target without having to do snapshots
It has Melta 24, with 8" movement so that's D8 at 32"
It's now AV14 all around
It has twice the HP of other tanks
It seems pretty decent as an antitank platform
Please don't compare to rapiers, they are made of paper

>>96228620
>implode your, NOW
vs
>Shin Kikōhō

>>96227741
>>96227775
I miss the old days, when Fat Bloke would just walk down the hall and aggressively pester the staff for information while chomping a bacon buttie with extra lard.

>>96228370
This is so fucking retarded it has to be a false flag so some fag on a discord can discredit people who have legit issues with the 3.0 release

>>96228688
I've yet to see anyone use it well but yes, looks strong. A Techmarine nearby can keep it running forever outside weapons that make titans nervous.

>>96228608
In fluff, how are they different?
>In the same way that a Primaris Bolter will get stink eye despite Boltguns being fine.
By fluff, bolt rifles and carbines came around with primaris. Do you have fluff for 40k graviton weapons being post-Heresy? Or is this another case of "they're different, so I don't like them"?

>>96228412
not even a word bearer, that's leonatos from bloodquest

>>96228717
NTA but they're post heresy becuase the 30k models are different. If they were the same, concurrent, or divergent tech they would be mentioned by now in a 30k publication. They would also have different rules. You can't prove a negative (prove the tooth fairy doesn't exist=prove grav guns weren't in the Heresy) so it's up to you to prove examples of grav guns in 30k.

Grav would be single target and scale up with either bulky or amor save.

>>96228655
The canon combi with 40k bolter AND 40k flamer parts isn't a good response? Get fucked fag.

>>96228741
No, the canon combi bolter with bolter and flamer parts does not prove the grav part, since they're not fucking related? Does a receipt for a TV prove I bought a boat you retard?

>>96228740
>the 30k models are different
So? People were playing HH with 40k models based on Index Astartes before some dead fat guy decided to sell resin to paypigs and gaslight them into thinking it was TRVE 30k.
Bligh wasn't even the best FW writer.

>>96228697
That's absolutely what it is

>>96228370
So you're saying it would be an act of self-defense in a just defensive war against a tyrannical power?

>>96228777
Samefag

>>96228717

HH3 Extermination
The Graviton Imploder is a perversion of graviton weaponry and used as the basis for 40k Grav. It notably uses the same rules that 40k does and not proper 30k mechanics.
So maybe your gun was made by a heretech.

>>96228370
Maybe reopening the asylums was a good idea after all

>>96228785
So the Grav Imploder pasting people would form thr bedrock of later 40k Grav designs while older Graviton tech was forgotten? Thats pretty cool.

So a 30k model with a Grav imploder could absolutely use 40k gravgun sculpts but no one else could by that logic?

>>96228740
>because the 30k models are different
By the same logic, you can't use these MkIV helmets in 30k, because they're 40k models and different from the FW ones. Along with a lot of other things. If we go far enough, we can exclude all of FW 30k models, because their design is different from new 30k without the fluff going to detail explaining why.
>They would also have different rules.
30k and 40k bolters have different rules, so I guess they're completely different weapons too.
>it's up to you to prove examples of grav guns in 30k.
So you can't prove 30k and 40k gravity weapons are different, beyond design aesthetics between two studios? 40k had graviton weapons back in RT, the grav weapons being just redesigns of those weapons, and 40k grav weapons even had the Graviton special rule.

>>96228809
Nah, we've seen the imploders and they look nothing like 40k grav guns either. 40k grav guns just don't work.

>>96228651
It's huuuuge vs melta/DS.

>>96228818
>>96228785

>>96228818
>By the same logic, you can't use these MkIV helmets in 30k, because they're 40k models and different from the FW ones.
Gaviton and Grav weapons are explicitly different, while Mk IV - whichever interpretation - has an established timeline.
>So you can't prove 30k and 40k gravity weapons are different, beyond design aesthetics between two studios?
see >>96228785

>>96228688
>>96228688
What we thinking gunwise on it? Also wondering about a decurion on what flavor of sicaran, or kratos main gun.

>>96228785
Have the writers forgotten graviton weapons are suppose to fire gravitons, adding to the mass of the target?

>>96228824
A regular gravgun sure, comparing an imploder to a Kataphon heavy grav cannon the two weapons look very similar.

>>96228818
snoots my beloved

>>96228863
Mark 4 refresh cannot come soon enough, WBs were mostly mark 2 and Mark 4.

Remember: If you see someone using resin mk 2, 3, 4, or 6 to smash their models because they do not accord to canon Horus Heresy aesthetics.

>>96228877
Based.

>>96228832
>>96228835
But that's not how 40k grav weapons work.

>>96228861
Same thoughts here. I found 40k's grav mechanics wounding on the target's armor save fun and a good representation. 30k grav feels like a mild inconvenience by comparison

>>96228877
They're obvious poorfags playing with recast armies pretending to care about "muh aesthetics".

>>96227171
>>96227165

Both Phoenixes and Deathshroud suck though

Hear me out...

>>96228860
I think melta and full las canons for anti tank
Full volkite is decent anti MEQ I think. You kill like 8 of them in one round of shooting. And it's a budget option

>>96228876
NTA, but why mk2 for WB? I was also waiting for mk4 but I made my piece with having my core troops in mk2 because A) it looks cool as hell and B) my guys were one of the chapters sent to calth so I figured it made sense they were deprioritzed for upgrades, although my vets and command squads are in "mongrel" mk4 made combining the WB torsos and heads and old mk2 shoulders and backpacks with 40k csm legs

>>96228247
>Malefic tanks
malefic tarantulas
malefic outflanking land raiders

>>96228688
not bad at all. takes 8 moving rapiers to average 10.65 wounds to it and only confirms the kill 66% of the time (2/3), and that's without smokescreen. Most armies simply wont have the firepower to be taking it out in a single turn at 3k.

I thought Kratos was a Lord of War with those stats but I guess it isn't so you're not limited to running primarch + 1 barebones kratos, you can actually kit it out with the gigamelta + 4 always stationary lascannons + 1 autocannon. That's more total tank-killing power than a 10man lascannon squad walking, and many times harder to kill.
Ferrus could even walk in front of it healing 4 wounds per turn or removing 4 status, his squad would scare off any chance of chainfists or meltabombs swarming the thing. And it's a nice big mobile LoS-blocker that you can use as mobile terrain to hide 3+ VanVets jump packers if needed.

IH infantry is extra-tanky because the -1S from shooting, so you dont want squishy tanks who the enemy gunline can just switch to and side-shot with their lascannons. Kratos is perfect because it's also not a good victim (since they can spend an entire turn knocking it to 1w with armourbane lascannons and they wouldnt even inflict a status, and it'd get full firepower on your turn and be back at 5 wounds ez)

If it wasn't an absolutely outrageous $116 I'd definitely pick one up, because it'd make IH play a bit differently from most other armies. Maybe if I ever make a friend nearby with a printer then I'll be able to run kratos.

>>96228937
>And it's a nice big mobile LoS-blocker that you can use as mobile terrain to hide 3+ VanVets jump packers if needed.
On a related note. I want to see that scene from Fury with infantry advancing behind tanks so bad in 30k.

>>96228910
Gonna disagree with full volkite - best to make the most of stable, which means HBs, autocannons, lascannons get +1 to their stats even on the move. Volkite gets nothing. I'd say battlecannon and pick whatever sponsons aint volkite. I'd say lascannons as if I'm not mistaken, the kratos is currently the best return fire unit?

>>96228876
Here's your nu mk4 bro

>>96228986
So ugly.

>>96228976
>>96228937
Can they jump-charge over it?

>>96228980
>Volkite gets nothing.
Anon volkite culverins are Heavy(FP) too, they are much better HBs against marines.
The autocannons do the same damage against MEQs too. They are better against 2W targets so I guess take those if you want to pay the extra 10p but 2 of them are not gonna make that big of a difference

For the Ultramarines nemesis chapter, does the entire chapter use the black paint schemes or just their destroyer squads?

>>96228502
Probably because they refuse to have Sanguinary Guard in this game. They finally make an appearance as part of an expansion and immediately lose their rules thanks to 3.0

>>96228463
Like 40k, Baal tends to be forgotten by the writers. It falls under attack, then remains under the status quo until somebody remembers that it’s time to move the plot along. I’d love to hear more about what went down though, a siege against a radioactive hellscape sounds interesting.

>>96228997
>>96228986
Nigga that's old mk4 look at the proportions you retard , it doesn't even have flexi-greaves

>>96228488
Yaoi titties

>>96228927
WB were the red headed stepchildren of the legions for most of the crusade so they were not a priority for armour upgrades.

But when Logar went chaos he started LARPing as the perfect kid, then he turned Horus and started getting all the best gear as the SoH's first allies in betrayal.

So they more or less skipped from mark II straight to mark IV.

>>96228892

The mechanic was fine, they just gave them too many shots. Grav Guns should have been Salvo 1/2 and they'd be perfect.

Can SOH have beards and lucius hair

>>96229005
Jump over then charge? Sure. Charge? No, need LoS and that's too far to succeed.

>>96229052
>the proportions
It uses nu proportions just like mk2-3 and 5-6. We already know what current plastic mk4 looks like and it doesn't have knee and elbow rivets.

>>96229069
Cringe, all SoH are bald fellows. Only the wolves would have hair.

>>96229036
Thematically, I'd go for all of them. That's what I've seen done and looks great. Almost literally the black sheep of the UM.

>>96229069
>lucius hair
Uhhh yeah I'm pretty sure they could rock this do

>>96228463
What makes Baal special as a deathworld? Being radioactive with mutants and giant animals around seems somewhat tame and frankly a bit boring. Doesn’t seem particularly difficult or even worth conquering. Even the human inhabitants aren’t exceptional warrior stock or anything, they’re generally stunted and affected by radiation.

Sloptica's insinuation that Dorn purposefully waylaid the IF part of the Istvaan Retribution Fleet: Based or cringe?

Apart from a name, an emblem, Codex Raukann and Avernii getting absolutely BTFO on Isstvan, there's pretty much zero concrete lore about any of the Iron Hands Clans right?
Normally I prefer to invent my own headcanon but there doesn't seem to be much point when the Clans are all blank slates.

Any BL books touch on them? Nobody seems to care about IH until the Shattered Legion books.

>>96229107
As deathworlds go it's nothing exceptional. It's only notable for being the least irradiated planet in the Red Scar region and for being the home of the Blood Angels. In a material sense the planet itself, on its own, holds next to no value.

>>96229107
I always imagine it like a mad max world, just with even more mutants and desert monsters.

Scream bloody gore

>>96229134
Morragul/Red Talons were the craziest of the bunch. I think Lexicanum has more info.

>>96229124
ellaborate

>>96229140
very nice
how will you do the lightning?

Dude you need to calmdo an, no ones vehicles but maybe IH had any real special rules in previous editions. Your histrionic. I've been playing 40k and nevromunda, epic and heresy since '91 and honestly 3.0 is great, finally fixes all the inherent problems with you go, I go and doesn't have any shitty units, everything us good. Every time I hear someone complain about lost options I go through the old and new liners. Only real "lost option" seems to be 2+ save vet sergeants and the ruled that allowed them to take all the hits, which was the worst exploit of the system I have ever seen. That's really why you 4e+ noob doomers are crying. Legends is next week, stop your whining.

>>96229124

They throw out different theories about his motivations in the Sloptica? I dont mind. In fact, I even like it. Ambiguity is often good for the lore.

>>96229052
Totally new mark 4 dude, look at the powerpack, the chest cables and the feet, it's the new design!

>>96228038
Are you sure that Crusade was written by French? Always thought that Malhotra and Neil Wylie wrote it, with Hoare responsible for Legio Victorum (he did much of the Titanicus/Knight stuff before, that's why).
Not even sure who was behind Malevolence. French probably did BA, but WS stuff?

>>96229176

>>96229052
Sure, it's old Mk IV.
With a new helmet design, a new chest cable design, a new chestplate design, knew goin armour design, new top-of-thigh design, new forearm design, new knee design, new greaves and new feet. Oh, and new backpack design.

>>96229244
Just like Brother Theseus' Heresy-era relic armor . . .

>>96229146
>>96229134
Morragul was led by Autek "Moon-man" Mor, and since they got away from the Drop Site practically untouched they went around the Galaxy beating up traitor forces and deploying as a full force.

>>96229052
>that's old mk4
No. It is not.

I like that tartaros has a tiny hidden normal power armour backpack.

>>96229254
>Redesign heavily mk2,3,5,6
>slightly tweak mk4 just to make it uglier
They should have redesigned it, give it the snoot & groin plate back
>why?
Because this slight shitty redesign they did sucks for everyone, no chance of it growing on people or trying new things, it's just old but worse, everyone loses

>>96229250
I'm not a total fan of The War of The False Primarch thing (too much Primaris in like m33), but one of them had Mor running around in a Contemptor as the Red Talons Chaptermaster, which is based

>>96229134
It's mostly shattered legion stories a lot of them touch on IH.
Also raukann wasn't destroyed by istvaan, their clan father even asked and was part of the Clan father counsel before the clan fathers got destroyed in Harr's trap.
Most of the IH casualties were avernii, and most of the IH strength wasn't on the ground at Istvaan (a lot was still in orbit or hadn't arrived in system).

>>96229257
It's pretty cute

>>96227800
I was in the WhatsApp group before Pardo booted me for telling people outside of it what was going on and I got snitched on.

He posted around a week prior to the leaks that his review video was about an hour long after editing. The video ended up being about 15 minutes long, it seems pretty clear he did a new video after the backlash and the original was canned

>>96229036
Just destroyers, the rest of the chapter is blue as usual. The um primarchs book is all about the nemesis chapter and how only doing one thing is bad

what do you guys use for your despoilers's weapons?
going to try out a 20 man in an interdiction cadre

>>96229392
For my word bearers, I'm planning on 4x Power mauls and twin lightning claws and melta bombs on the Sergeant in each squad for efficient power armor munching

>>96229420
no I meant what physical model/stl

I've got a question for Auxilia players: did you get any games in yet and if yes did it hurt to lose access to plasma and melta guns? Or are you counting on them to showing up in legends?

Also what's going to happen to Imperial Militia armies at this point? They have no official minis made by GW so either they legend it or just throw up their hands, put out a book with stats and say "do what you want"?

any decent mech book scan?

>>96229426
Oh, just melee weapons kit. I used to have an Etsy shop I liked but he got caught in that 3d printing purge a few months ago

>>96229463
We are supposed to be getting an armylist for militia this month and the astartes legacy list last month, so milita players can expect their army to be playable sometime around summer next year.

>>96227197
Cheer up little buddy at least you get the only Chaplin to do Chaplin things.
>Sucks that is old man Kor Pharoen though

>>96229655
>chaplin

>>96227252
How the fuck is that an APEX?
They can only take the Prime that is open to all Traitor armies and it lost Fear?
What the hell is this crap?

>>96227483
Dead Trees die once more.
good on ya for not backing off

Correct me if I'm wrong but from the wording, if a disintegrator squad of like 3 terminators loses a guy to overload, do they have to take a panic check as they've lost over 25% of the unit, as pg 251: Morale sub-phase: any checks required by ACTIVE or reactive player are done now

>>96229659
Did I stutter?

>>96229706
>Chaplain Chaplin regaling tales of the Emperor's exploits to legion aspirants

>>96229615
If history is anything to go by militia will drop one year to the day after it's supposed to

Would it have been too much for more sets of Corrupted army rules besides the EC ones? Like, maybe just one more? Might have been nice since there's the big new winged Angron and all.

>>96229703
That's how get's hot has always worked yes. Any unit that has taken 25% of casualties (not from reactions) had to take a morale test, even if self inflicted, in 2nd too

>>96229764
When 4th launches you'll get daemon mortarion (it'll look even worse than 40k mortarion)

>>96229703
yes. It sums any models of any players removed during shooting attacks. Saturnine with disintegrators are especially garbage. You fire using a 3man it usually cooks off one of them, their thermal diffraction field doesnt help them as they dont rely on breaching and disintegrators arent las/plas/melta, then they have to take a test to see if they run away with sucky leadership 8. Disintegrators are pretty much a non-starter this edition.

>>96229760
I can't wait for them to be just a collection of OOP FW IG unit rules with a bunch of rules throw in to make you think they're cool and customizable.

>>96229785
Again, historically speaking yes, that's what they'll be

>>96229785
That sounds both cool AND customizable, anon

>>96226977 (OP)
here's your new XVII Primarch model

Aside from IH and Transports, legion vehicles don't get any real rules to differentiate them from each other right? Trying to make a shattered legion without the squad mixing, just taking normal allies and figuring out slots.

>>96229785
If they brought back Vostroyans as Imperial Army/Militia, I’d bankrupt myself.

>>96227397

>>96229785
If they follow what 2.0 did we're going to get more necromunda stuff and 40k guard units.

>>96228463
Why even bother besieging it? There isn't anything of value there, there aren't any people there, and it's far removed from anything that's actually important.

>>96229871
If we follow what 3.0 did, no we fucking ain't.

>>96229107
Non-BA can't land because laws. That's it. It was a place whose quality of life would have been improved by the imperium because it was a primarchs homeworld but the angel guy choose not to for a variety of reasons.

>>96229873
I mean I assume the same reason as trying to take Cthonia and Colchis: revenge and deny recruits

>>96228156
Its not about coping, its about being factually correct.

>>96228183
>Not in legacies.
Irrelevant, as stated before.

>Why would the article reassure me of that if nothing in the article is related?
"this units options are coming back" IS in the article and IS related.

>There is no way any reasonable person can infer what happened from what they said. If only schizos can understand your advertising, then you've failed as a marketer.
Sure. And if you want to argue the article is misleading and that the inference made was logical? Go ahead. But thats different to "GW said this thing and did the opposite".

is it a crime to use Horus Ascended in a 3000 point game?

>>96229904
Time will tell but my money is on them backtracking very hard but it would be too little too late. A bunch of retards on the discord are hoping for militia of all things to get boxlocked to 40nigger shit too but I hope that's the one time they don't listen to the community. Ooor they are going fuck up again and make militia come out 1-2 years later.

>>96229935
>deny recruits
But there are scarcely any people there. There were barely even any marines, they only totaled around 6000 for the whole planet. They didn't even have any ships to contest the void supremacy of the traitors, they were literally on their dust ball while the legion was stuck in Ultramar.

>>96229873
Spite.

>>96227403
>and Forge Lords across the galaxy are assembling their warriors.
Didn’t they squat Forge Lords?

>>96229969
>>96229935
I would assume a band of traitors went over there because they wanted to dick over sanguinius in a moral victory sense ("ahaha we took your homeworld") but due to low tactical value they werent a big enough army to outright explode the planet (and lesser orbital bombardment wouldnt exactly do much, its already a shithole) so they just landed and kept fighting on it for ages

Im sure its going to be some massive traitor death fleet that should have had them dead to rights or just exploded the world, but that version would be dumb

>>96229873
Why’d Autek Mor drop a moon on Bodt rather than just blasting the WE recruits from orbit with nukes like they’d done to other traitor targets? Because some things are about sending a message.

>>96228694

RIP.

>>96230037
It was to cover up the fact he raided their stasis vaults and stole Terrain Gene-Tech

>>96227874
>>96228286
Hello James.

>>96230031
>Go to destroy Baal
>It's already destroyed
Mission success?

>>96230037
+++ DROPPING MOONS ON THINGS IS FUNNY +++

>>96230098
That's just nonsensical though. Can't imagine the force necessary to push even a small moon like Phobos to decrease its orbit as fall into its planet within 24 hours, let alone to move a Moon sized object to make it fall in under 8 hr.

>>96230098
+++ LEGIO X EDICT SPECIFICALLY PROHIBITS FUN +++

>>96230119
>muh real science
Xir, this is Warhammer, everything is nonsense

>>96228463
>>96229873
>>96229935
>>96229969
aside from the propaganda victory of destroying a Legion/Primarch's homeworld, Baal had about 8,000 marines of various Legions, including 5,000 BA defending it and was capable of simply creating more Blood Angels at a terrifying rate - the BA have one of the largest aspirant pools for Reasons and even trapped on Baal could probably make a few thousand more Inductii inside of a year if they really wanted to, never mind what they could do if they got out and started reproducing in secret

>>96227863
No

>>96230098

Until the moons start fighting back...

MAKE US WHOLE

>>96227863
He would've been pushed out and working on his own projects.

>>96228087
An anon said he was going to anal rape Kevin Rountree for fucking up HH beyond repair.

>>96229934
There was only one reason, and it was because he wanted his daddy to let him contravene the Imperial Truth and continue being worshiped as a god.

>>96230188
>change Nicole from a pretty, stacked young woman to a fat old hag
Horus Heresy

>>96227598
I denounce mordheim by association.

>>96229463
Plasma has never been optimal on the auxilia.

>>96227555
And Pardo tried to shut him down.
The little spanish hobbit is literally the Horus Heresy community’s Judas to leak-chad’s Jesus.

So after reading through the consuls and looking at moritat,I think it's kind of hard to believe that they will actually return wargear to consuls.
So Moritat lost chain fire rule and instead he got overcharged plasma and volkite pistols to function as chain fire
Do people really believe GW would make separate profiles for each pistol? Including the legion specific ones ?

Didn't know this before but apparently the number of teeth on the cogs in Iron Hand legionary armorials corresponds to their service record in some sense, twelve teeth being the baseline. Fewer than twelve cog teeth indicates that the legionary has been reprimanded or censured, more than twelve means they've been awarded honors.

>>96230233
Sangy believed that if Emps knew (he did) that there was a religion based around his son being a god he would raze everything (he wouldn't). It's interesting he knew so much about him but knew nothing about the entire departments of the imperium dedicated to re-education of newly rediscovered humans. It's not like between the iterators, the elucidators and whatever this kind of thing couldn't have been handled without the genocide of the entire population of Baal.

>>96230319
Wargear isnt all or nothing.

>>96230119
reddit says its 3.7x10^28 joules (this is about our moon's own kinetic energy, so this idiot probably thinks you have to stop the moon dead and push it direct, but with orbital mechanics you really don't need that much push as long as it's used the right way - the two bodies are falling towards one another anyway, so anything that accelerates that fall is going to cause a collision; Bodt's moon is "on a sharply elliptical orbit" and at the point of falling toward Bodt and making its pass out to the pointy end of orbit, then the Red Talon bombards it from the right angle and pushes it half a degree toward Bodt)

so to answer your question probably a lot less than you'd think; Dimorphos, which was smacked in the face by the 500kg DART mission a few years ago, has a minimum mass of about 1/5 the Great Pyramid of Giza and a maximum mass of about 7/10 of the Great Pyramid, and its orbital period was shortened by 43 minutes (of about 12 hours) instantly, because speed and turning are linked and a lower speed means a tighter radius; the actual energy delivered by DART was about 3 tonnes of TNT - about a quarter of the 1950s suitcase nuke (W54)

so hitting it with sci-fi crap at the right angle would easily do that, yes

>>96230343
What's that supposed to mean
You think legacies will return his chain fire?
Lmao at you

>>96229938
>But thats different to "GW said this thing and did the opposite".
Okay, GW implied this thing so heavily you'd have to be a legit conspiracy theorist or schizophrenic to assume they meant anything else, and then didn't do that thing. Even in a court of law, this distinction wouldn't hold.

>>96230319
>The moritat can be equipped with a pair of pistols from the legion armoury or whatever the fuck it's called for twice the points of a single pistol
>If a moritat isn't equipped with the pistol options from the liber version he gains the chainfire special rule
>insert chainfire rule
So hard.

>>96230362
What it says dipshit. That its not "all wargear returns or none do".
A librarian getting to take a bike or terminator armor is wargear, it isnt the same as the moritat getting to chainfire bolt pistols.

>>96230319
I think you might get a jump-packless moritat if you're lucky.
>>96230370
That's too sensible to be compatible with 3.0

>>96230370
Forgot to add before hitting post that I don't think they'll do it because it's an option that's too smart for them.

Christ, looks like everyone has gotten the same damage on the saturnine torsos. What's the best move? Asking for a replacement will just yield damaged replacements (again). Maybe order a box of the individual releases which will hopefully not be scuffed, switch the contents and ask for refund?

>>96230375
>A librarian getting to take a bike or terminator armor is wargear
Except that unlike in 2.0, Jump Packs, Bikes, and Terminator armour have been explicitly made not wargear in 3.0

>>96230376
>That's too sensible to be compatible with 3.0
Agreed

>>96230194
No, at best, they'll just let him replace his one profile pistols with two options from officer weapons list, maybe he gets changed to have a rule of "When shooting two Pistol weapons he gets +1 S but overload (1)" as a catchall but I doubt he'll get anything at all. Doesn't really affect me anyway, my moritat was already using different colored plasma Pistols as disintegrators anyway. I just want an option to run him on foot to fit in a rhino

>>96230383
>What's the best move?
Don't buy an obviously sub-par release.
>Asking for a replacement will just yield damaged replacements (again)
It might. And you keep asking until you get one that's not damaged. If it costs GW 15 boxes to get there, that's what they deserve to pay.
>Maybe order a box of the individual releases which will hopefully not be scuffed, switch the contents and ask for refund?
You can try, but they might just send out a replacement box (they're legally within their rights to do so) and now you've paid extra for the trouble. Plus, if they can prove you're lying, you get nada.

>>96229107
Baal isn't one deathworld, its three.

Baal is a giant earth orbitted by two moons, no normal humans live on Baal proper, just its moons which are called primus and secundus.

Baal has always been a shithole but its moons used to be garden worlds, during old night both moons got shelled to shit with atomics and covered in hostile bio weapons.

All the Space marine military infrastructure of the Baal system is traditionally set up on Baal proper while Primus and Secundus get to stay in a post apocalyptic hellscape.

>>96230386
>Jump Packs
They have. And with this system they could do it for terminator armour too. They just choose not to. Probably because terminators and power armour get different weapon options.

>>96230410
>All the Space marine military infrastructure of the Baal system
It's like one garrisoned fortress in an empty desert.

>>96230442
>Probably because terminators and power armour get different weapon options.
Lol no. The answer is that there's no official models for those, haven't you learned by now?

>>96230456
And its still all the Space marine military infrastructure in the entire solar system because the BA use Baal exclusively as a recruitment world.

I don’t know why anyone moves on to a new game system that 1) has had the worst launch out of the 3 2) has rules that at best people are forcefully content with and don’t really do anything new and at worst take away what flavor existed 3) stripped away any modality hampering creativity. How hard is it to convince people to stay with the old rule sets 1.0 + 2.0 and meet them in the middle with new models (saturnine)?

>>96230469
I refuse to play 2.0 anymore and no one around me is cool enough to try 1.0 so 3.0 it is.

>>96230349
>The right angle
If 0° is right along the orbit's trajectory and 90° is directly towards the planet, wouldn't the proper angle be 180°?
That is directly against the orbital trajectory because slowing the object causes the orbital path to intersect the planet.
Push it anywhere less than 90° and you will cause the object to crash...but only after a close approach which will cause an even more elliptical orbit with an even higher perihelion

>>96230469
But I don't want to play 1.0 or 2.0. I want to play 3.0 with fixed loadout and LOS rules.

>>96230442
You realise you just posted the overly convoluted system that they use instead of making jump-packs wargear? The system that needs a new unit entry (which wasn't listed in the legacies unit list) rather than being a single line? Sure.

>>96230233
Honestly the fact that Sanguinius was willing to kill gorillions and wipe out entire civilizations to expand the Imperium but refused to ever let the Imperium touch on his homeworld is what definitively makes him an irredeemable hypocrite. He's straight up evil.

>>96230469
Have you actually played a game anon? I tried out 3.0 last weekend and honestly it just felt like 2.0 with some quality of life changes.

>>96230349
Also, how many Giza's was Bodt's moon? 2? Lol

>96230508
Parhetic bait
2/10

>>96230508
>Have you actually played the game?
Pardo uses this excuse constantly, CONSTANTLY lmaoooo. Plastered all over his social media.

You dumbass. Actually read their post and what it is about.

Fuck off and Fuck Pardo.

>>96230508
I have and it doesn't feel like it at all,you fucking liar
The challenge phase and charge phase and aftermath reworks alone are game changers on top of statuses and morale being far more interesting,while removal of fluff and flavour have hampered us in making a properly unique army.
And that's not even counting how Missions completely changed the dynamic of how you play
Lying fuck

>>96228038
if you worked at FW sorry

>>96228331
yep its 1000% this, same happening in big vidya gaymes

>>96230538
I did read his post, the bit I was replying to and should have quoted so retards like don't sperg out is
>2) has rules that at best people are forcefully content with and don’t really do anything new
Why are people forcefully content? Like I was saying I enjoyed 3.0 when I played it because it felt just like 2.0 to me, I even used the challenge mechanic and it was nice to have a primarch go into another 1 and not take the majority of the game and it was just a nice mechanic to play.
I'd say if you never played 3.0 you'll never know if you like it over 2.0 but I know you'll just post the shit on a plate meme so I accept your concession you mad no games
Also fuck pardo that ESL midget

>>96230508
I don’t need to play a pile of shit to know it is indeed a steaming pile of shit. Why is this argument used so much. It’s a fundamentally different game and I would argue fundamentally WORSE.

>>96230540
>his game experience didn't mirror my own he must be lying!
Too right anon, we must all have the same universal experience. I'll enjoy playing heresy with my community and you enjoy playing with yours if you've got one

>>96230484
depends

if you hit it hard enough from the front to slow it then it'll crash, but if it's already orbiting elliptically and it's on approach to its parent body then it's got the most kinetic energy, more or less, that it naturally has (it's on the fall in, rather than the climb out)

so if you smack it relatively carefully with say a big fuckin nuke then that "fraction of a degree" change of orbit is enough to bring it inside the Roche limit and smackababam

unsurprisingly there's not much detail about which exact way the moon got shot, but it's not really unbelievable - we've seen the thing done irl on a much smaller scale (DART's mission funding sadly didn't permit the prior launch of a fully painted World Eaters army to Dimorphos)

>>96230575
Don’t the challenge rules state you remove the physical models and put them somewhere to hit each other? Did I misread that?

>>96230588
>>his game experience didn't mirror my own he must be lying!
What a disingenuous reply

>>96230594
That was the case in 2.0 too

>>96229392
fuck these are hot- how do you paint that cool gold?

>>96230602
I fee like a retard if that was the rules in 2.0 I never played like that. I always played it as a step up similar to Warhammer fantasy

>>96230596
What did you want me to reply anon, I found the game to not be that different in terms of my enojyment of it? I'll grant you the changes to charges are questionable but I didn't exactly hate it? makes heavy a pain in the ass to get into combat with and I hated the medium ruin rules that needs a fix imo but otherwise works liek 2.0. I'm sure someone will reply with moving goalposts or something so

>>96230594
>>96230602
>>96230616
Half right: you swap the models with another model in the unit to be as close to as each other as possible. But I know a lot of guys didn't even bother and just rolled them out because 99% of the time one or both would die anyway

Are the defenders of 3.0 the slow boiled frogs?

>>96230626
Yes

>>96230607
nta but I have a very similar brass that I made by mixing Vallejo metal colours
Pardon the yellowish lighting,but during the day it was like the other anons
The mix is 5 drops of gold, 2 drops of burnt iron, 2 drops of silver and 1 drop of copper and you get the perfect true brass
Alternatively there's warpaints fanatic true brass,but I had major issues with brush strokes with that one,so you'd need to apply it with airbrush for smooth finish

>>96230618
Except in your original post you said the game played like 2.0, you didn't mention enjoyment once.
There's a massive difference if you say you liked it as much and it playing the same. And that's from someone who really likes the core rules but absolutely despises the Libers

>>96228502
Nice hairband

>>96230645
Sorry I thought my enjoyment was implied by my asking somone who was shitting on the state of it why they hate it and why people would move onto to the new rules
for the record I enjoyed the way it played
Libres could have used a bit more imo. don't really enjoy how some primarchs just have random prime benefits and how some only give benefits on the first turn and others for the whole game but what you going to do

>>96230588
If everyone's experience is subjective, then >>96230508 is just spouting completely useless shit of no value whatsoever, yes?

>>96230678
I am just frustrated
We were so close to greatness but then they fucked it all up with libers,for all factions i might add,even if we ignore missing wargear, units, whatever.
The legion specific parts of the book feel empty, unfinished and hollow
Like what's the point in having allegiance other than having access to certain characters? There's zero loyalist or traitor specific legion anything (except Legiones Hereticus for EC and WE,but that's not what I meant). They easily could have given us once per army prime traits that can go only on high command that act as De facto warlord traits, give loyalist and traitor detachments or gambits or even advanced reactions
But we got nothing, nothing at all
Absolutely lazy and retarded
And that's not even mentioned the gutting of cybertheurgies,Knight household ranks and Auxillia Cohorts and many other things

>>96230626
No, because it wasn't that slow.
They're the retarded frogs.

>>96230725
Don't forget there's like a dozen threads and a hundred replies on reddit of every single sprue having the same damage in the same place

>>96230746
Wait what really, which sprue is it

>>96230515
I'm not sure there's even any imagery of it other than p112-113 of Book 6, where it looks pretty big - but it would because it's about to hit the planet

it's round as depicted, so it should be at least Mimas-sized, but that's only 400km in diameter, and despite being much more massive the principle is sound - we know that comets and asteroids hitting shit alters orbits all the time, and we know that a 400km moon smashing into an inhabited planet at basically any speed would be world-ending (let alone 1000km/s like our moon, which would be the effect of altering Bodt's moon's orbit as it approaches Bodt from its elliptical orbit)

the biggest nuke ever built had a theoretical yield of 100 Mt (about the same mass as all living humans, though if they were travelling at 1000km/s they'd be considerably massier on impact) which is about 33 million times more energy than DART transferred to Dimorphos; but that's one bomb from the mid 20th century; Bodt's moon is probably billions of times massier than Dimorphos even at Mimas-scale so you likely need either hundreds of Tsar Bombas on the Red Talon or dozens of futuretech superbombs which, honestly, I think you'd need a nuclear physicist to talk about upper limit yields for

but we can handwave any kind of antimatter bomb or whatever we think the Red Talon used because, unlike teleportation or horny dreams that want everybody to mutate to death and rot into raging skull piles, the underlying principle of what Autek Mor did has already been demonstrated, all he needs is a big enough lever/bomb

>>96230746
I am also interested as I want to check mine now

>uk stores helped fuck up the launch by over ordering
>some canacuck shop owner complaining about his inflated saturnine stock
How's murica and australia holding up? Did everyone in sales massively overestimate the popularity 3.0?

>>96230798
>Did everyone in sales massively overestimate the popularity 3.0?
I don't think anyone here knows one way or the other, but I also don't think anyone would be surprised if it turned out to be the case.

in the corpo world anything that isn't a smashing success is a failure

>>96230765
>>96230750
Generally looks to be the raised sections - mainly the saturnine terminator torsos, the terminator praetor chest, a lot of the rivets on the mk2s. Just search "saturnine damage" and you'll probably find the threads.

>>96229056
>WB were the red headed stepchildren of the legions for most of the crusade so they were not a priority for armour upgrades.
>So they more or less skipped from mark II straight to mark IV.
MkIII was not an upgrade to MkII, just a more specialised variant.

Am I reading this right, Ahriman's thaumaturgy can bring Magnus back to life with full wounds on 4+ if he dies to a shooting attack and you use the resurrection reaction?!

>>96230370
Nah, firestorm makes it better. It's better that them (and Destroyers) get improved bolt pistols than having a rule to shoot a lot of regular (YAWN) pistols

>>96230835
how angry would people be if james released a special "artificer+" rule for the sprues unaffected?

>>96230835
Just checked mine, thankfully all good, sucks for those whose aren't though, should return that shit and get a replacement or refund

Do I absolutely have to take a Praetor?
I was digging the idea of a force led by a Centurion and a Consul, not super into the idea of some big command guy having to be there to oversee everything.

>>96229271
>give it the snoot
No, it looks terrible.

>>96230459
There's no official models for jump pack centurions either.

>>96230868
No but the extra reaction point and apex detachments are very useful

>>96230876
I couldn't find room for any of the Apex Detachments in my janky list, but the extra reaction point is a good reason to keep him I suppose.

>>96230868
No, theyre not necessary by any means. But they do give a reaction which helps justify them.

>>96230835
For a second I thought I was being goatse'd

Which saturnine shoulderpads should I use for my IW ?

>>96230903
Middle looks best I think.

>>96230835
Should try cleaning it, looks like some of the damage is just plastic shavings.

>>96230884
If you want an extra reaction take that support officers units from the tactica journal. Those are only 80 pts compared to a praetor that starts at 120 pts, and you also want to give a praetor a proper melee weapon.

>>96230884
What kind of list is that where you have too many elites to even consider a Praetor's apex?
Oof, I never brought more than 1 master of the legion. Now the game wants you to bring minimum 2 HQ, plus maybe a MotL

>>96230798
They would have had a huge success if they didn’t fuck the game up with their subversive kikery and if we hadn’t found out just how badly they fucked it up, HH had the potential for sure.
Leakerchad probably cost them hundreds of millions in lost sales if this actually killed the game LMAO.

>>96230884
FWIW anon, in my 2k test game I didn't take a praetor while my opponent did (I just had a single Cataphractii Centurion) and I still throughly smashed him, having more reactions didn't really matter because there are only so many units that were worth reacting with or against

>>96230928
Skill issue. The lists I've build I only needed one centurion and one praetor, and that is with me putting as many different units in a list as possible to try how everything works.

Thoughts on this so far? Helmet is probably too small, right?
Originally I wanted a shield on my Saturnine praetor, but they all looked pretty terrible, so I went with the paragon blade from the older and huge Tartaros praetor instead to supplement the XL-powerfist.

>>96230936
With each unit only being allowed to use one reaction each turn you rapidly runs out of things to do.

>>96230928
This is built from my collection.

I don't have a Warsmith at the moment because he's never in stock.

>>96230946
im diggin it

>>96230946
Which Legion? I can't tell.

>>96230956
Yeah, I was probably too subtle, admittedly.

>>96230946
I still don't understand how a person fits in there unless their arms and legs are severed first.

>>96230946
That's the sword from the actual resin praetor?
jfc how big was he?
Head looks fine. The eagle on top too. but the fists on the shoulders should probably be bigger than the ones in the tassels

>>96230950
>220 points on a saturnine praetor that adds nothing but MotL and has no unit he fits in

Bloody hell, that's excessive.

>>96230978
Yeah, like I said, I'd run a Warsmith if I had one.

>>96230974
Bigger than some of the primarch models.

>>96227317
Come back you little pussy. Admit you didn't even have the literacy/brain integrity to read the address, and you just piped SB's "4 year cycle" commentary into the thread. Which, if you bother to read the comments on their video, they clearly state was just wishcasting.

>>96230983
One extra reaction point is not worth 220 points. Just add one or two tanks or something instead.

>>96230934
>They would have had a huge success if they didn’t fuck the game up
that's a given, for sure. but wayland and the canacuck both kind of admitted to over ordering on top of everything.

>>96230983
Might as well give him deepstrike and throw him at the enemies backfield.
They are almost inmune to bolters so might as well have him be annoying on objectives with the 1 tactical squad

>>96230974
>jfc how big was he?
He's a chonker.

>>96228432
>When was this ever said
I think going forward they were going to pick up where Tamurkahn left off, they had that huge khorne dragon guy they released for seemingly no reason for AOS

>>96228598
>political Traitors confronting Chaos Traitors
I like this but who the fuck can be a purely political traitor after the siege?

>>96230999
>You
>The man she tells not to worry about you

>>96230991
>>96230996
I've not been feeling too keen on the profile of Tyrants in 3.0 so I might swap them out for the Saturnine squad for him to hang out with, perhaps.

Or toss him to add another or maybe some more rapiers.

>>96230798
my lgs guy who I thought would get raped by it seemed like he did alright. Then I saw the back shelf and there was a lot of shit, though he said he only had one available to sell.

>>96230968
Didn’t they imply that in some warcom article?

>>96230968
Their limbs just go a little into the arms and legs.

>>96231018
There's a delegatus on the pdf. Presumably he has master of the legion while being a normal HQ. So maybe go with that if you don't need the apex detachments and have no use for him
Tyrants might not be amazing but saturnine don't really shoot at the same targets

>>96230798
Dark Sphere were matching Wayland's 35% off, but now they've scrubbed Saturnine from their site entirely.

>>96231021
If we're talking about FLGSes, mine started with a full shelf, and last I checked we were down to 1 of each liber except for liber hereticus which for some reason no one was buying lol, a row of mk2 boxes, and 3 or so saturnine boxes

>>96231037
>the pdf
The tactica journal?
Or the legacies one we're waiting for?

>>96231039
I noticed that a couple days ago. I wonder if they'll stop listing 30k stuff entirely. Do you think they refunded/returned all the saturnine copies they had left to GW?

>>96230950
I think Vindicators are good antitank, and can deal with Land Raiders. Which is good, as you have basically no WS5 units

>>96231037
It would make more sense to me if he was a cheap high command that unlocked an apex but didn't have master of the legion.

>>96231039
Jesus Christ this edition launch is a wreck.
I can’t even see how they would be able to fix it.

I built my first saturnine though I still need to putty the base.
The end result is pretty dumb but the kit itself goes together so well

>>96230983
Can't you take some whatever TH terminator and say he's a Warsmith?

>>96230798
complete and utter flop in US too. If you think demand was low in britain, now imagine in US where they price it 40% higher for the exact same box. All the "what are you working on" posts on all the stores facebook groups dont include any customers working on their saturnine box. Skaventide was also overproduced but I saw 10x more people painting the skaven on launch week than this flop. Only the pre-release paid influencers have painted saturnine.

>>96231057

>>96231057
The mandatory eagle ruins it for me.

>>96231072
it's kinda amazing they intended it to be the starter for all 18 legions and yet didnt include a chaos chestplate or a neutral one.

>>96231053
I'm open to suggestions there - though this is built purely with my collection, I'm past that hill of only wanting to own models I fully intend to use every single game.

>>96231072
It's super easy to shave off. I'm gonna do it on the next one I build.

>>96230974
He was Alpharius.

>>96230254

...I say this every time this game is brought up and I will not be stopping now: A hypothetical fourth game where we use an Ishimura class Planetcracker ship to kill the Bloodmoons in a full circle metaphor would have been kino as fuck.

>>96231071
The public park behind my job has that decorative gravel that's mostly flat-ish rocks so I can just go pick up a bumch and wash them off on the clock

>>96231044
the legacies next week
>>96231055
Idk, that seems pretty strong in comparison. It'd let you take multiple apex detachments unless he has a limit to how many you can take

>>96231055
If the Champion unlocks a detachment with a Retinue, Elites and Heavy Transport...what else is there for a Delegatus to unlock? Or maybe a detachment with 3 elites, but restricted to Veterans only

>>96230319

Grav-Pistols wouldn't be that bad as is if dual wielded. 4 shots from a BS5 Consul, with pinning and shock isn't bad.
Otherwise, just give us Overcharged profiles for Inferno Pistols and Disinitigrator Pistols, hell, just give us the old Dis Pistol statline back (S5, AP2 and keep D2) and give it 3 shots same as the Overcharged Plasma Pistol. At that point what other options realistically do we want?
Unless they do something crazy to Destroyer Bolt Pistols, like give them shot-selector, then who even cares? Were there any other pistols they could take?

Honestly the hardest one to fix would be the Inferno Pistol. That thing is a fucking joke as is. It'll have to be D2 or D3 minimum, then give it a second shot.

>>96231131
Anon there's only one high command slot remember.

>>96231081
It’s probably only there because of some exec and marketing retards wanting to make people associate it with GW ”space marines” by plastering an eagle/aquilla on it.
It’s why almost every fucking 40k space marine has the aquilla on their chest.
Seems like nobody told them that most HH players don’t like the ”eagle plastered on chest” shit.
Or the dipshit designer who ruined mk2 and mk3 because he thought their designs ”looked stupid” just decided they should look like that because he has shit taste.

>>96231131
The limit would be he takes a high command slot and risks giving up warlord vp without being as tough as a praetor.

>>96231146
And they cannot take any Prime benefit. But I think more like this >>96231139

>>96231095
You shouldn’t have to shave them off in the first place because they shouldn’t be there.

>Iron-Fathers and Warsmiths can't wear Saturnine armor
>in fact Iron-Fathers can't even wear Gorgon armor
I understand that the reason is "no model = no rules" but that doesn't make it less annoying.

>>96230934

Ruleswise my main impression is that it's 2020 edition Blood Bowl all over again, the ideas, as ideas, MOSTLY* aren't terrible... it's just the fucking EXECUTION of those ideas, and more here than in 2020, the layout of those ideas. Like, reading these rules is just such a SLOG. No wonder they fucking felt like they needed to literally do In Bold summaries to how EVER SINGLE RULE worked in the game. It's just so tortuously written, and what's more it's not like it's going to reduce rule-lawyering or arguments at the table or in a tourney. It's going to only make them worse.
There might be a good game here. But I don't know how many people are going to force themselves through the tiresome formatting, the butchered legion rules, the damaged plastic, and the awful 40k aethstetic of those models, to find out for sure.

*FUCK WILDLY INACCURATE AND FUCK YOU JTY FOR ALLOWING THAT TO EVEN GET AS FAR AS NOMINAL PLAYTESTING.

So what extremely retarded and nonsensical conclusions will the suits at GW draw from the failure of this launch?

>>96230946
Holy fist, that's a lot of fists
lovely use of the bt helmet, Fistus

>>96231169
DESU I think it makes more sense for them to just be a master of the legion + officer of the line in a command slot both in terms of list building and lore. These guys are just centurions who've been handed command duties as both a test for higher leadership and as a delegation of powers, them being able to take retinues last edition was just a side effect of having master of the legion.

>>96230999
What's better for a Tartaros praetor in HH3, a Paragon blade or a thunder hammer ?

>>96231192
Not to mention the gutted options making units so fucking one note and boring.

>>96231197
"There's no Horus Heresy video game. That must be the reason why this launch sold less than TOW (Total War Warhammer, Vermintide) and 40k (Dawn of War 2, Space Hulk Deathwing, Rogue Trader, Space Marine 2) - we don't need to change our pricing structure or our book schedules or paid DLC journals or stop revamping and changing every single rule in a bad way just for the sake of ruining people's ability to use old books. I mean 40k is still alive and we do the same bullshit to it with 8th, 9th, 10th"

>>96231200
MotL + officer of the line, and in a Command slot? If you do that, nobody will take a Centurion again. I know I wouldn't.
>them being able to take retinues last edition was just a side effect of having master of the legion.
They also had a Rite of War full of Veterans made specifically for them

>>96231224
Coming to you soon: a Horus Heresy video game where you play as a Solar Aux soldier who somehow witnesses multiple key moments in the Heresy and then is somehow at the final moments!

>>96231070
>"what is everyone working on?"
>not that
big oof

>>96231139
If I was writing the legacies document, I'd slap in several new detachments he unlocks that would represent the Rites of War from previous editions or go the easier route and he adds two slots to his detachment like a 2x logistical benefit to give him a unique identity beyond "discount praetor".
Or if being "discount praetor" is the goal, I'd make it a centurion-only prime advantage that gives him Master of the Legion. No sense having an almost identical entry with just one extra rule.

>>96231216

I include that under the heading of "butchered legion rules" like, it covers the whole thing. The gutting of wargear options, the removal of entire units types, the nerfing of legion abilities whilst others largely stayed the same, the depressing degredation of presentation and of course the removal of Rites of War.

>>96231230
>They also had a Rite of War full of Veterans made specifically for them
That was in 1.0, delegatus no longer had that in 2.0

>>96230319
Legion-wargear moritats were always cope material.

>>96231231

...but that would be good though.

>>96231249
Yeah I was halfway through typing that when I realized I would play it.

>>96231244

IH Grav-Pistol Mori's were decent against Dreadnaught spam thanks to Haywire. Inferno Pistols were a meme though, admittedly. Most of the time the best choice was good old trusty 24 shots of Volkite.

It was fun back when 2.0 came out to try and theorycraft a Disintigrator Moritat that wasn't out and out suicidal. I think IH and Space Wolves were the only possibilities that stood a chance.

I'm looking at the redmakers solar guard and wondering what those two bottom weapons are? Top is obviously a flamer, one of the two bellow might be volkites, but what does that make the third one?

>>96231268

It's a laser of some kind.

Is "saturnine squad with fist + disntegrator" loadout a good idea? Feels like the flamers are their best guns anyways so maybe that's the best way to run them, and it gives the praetor a home.

>>96231233
>detachments he unlocks that would represent the Rites of War from previous editions
I mean -> >>96231139

>>96231231
that's the only game genre games workshop hasnt sold the license to - a Walking Simulator.
You play as a Remembrancer, and you just walk around watching the space marines kick the shit out of each other and spear each others corpses on things. It's a game like Pokemon Snap, except with pictures of a Great Unclean One vomiting a stream of acid and nurglings onto a screaming mass of imperial citizens.

>>96231294

>With a last effort, he pulled on Wienand’s hands, his knuckles white, half lifting his frail body. His face lost some of the lines of pain, becoming open and lighter. He smiled, pleased to share his great secret at last.

>‘My name was Kyril Sindermann. I was chief iterator to the Sixty-Third expedition of the Great Crusade. I was present when Horus abandoned the love of the Emperor for the lies of the enemy. I was there as the Luna Wolves were corrupted from within. I was there at Isstvan III when brother turned on brother. I endured the Siege of Terra, and I knew Saint Euphrati, the first of the saints, as a friend.’

>He sank back into the mattress.

>‘And…’ he gasped. ‘And…’

>Wienand leaned in. His last words were as arid and hushed as wind blowing over sand.

>‘And I was there the day the Emperor slew Horus.’
It could work.

>>96231307
Slightly out of Focus.
Amateur composition, you centered Horus exactly in the middle of the frame for a boringly even spacing.
B+. Recommend replaying the level.

>>96231268
Volley gun and hellgun?
Could be meant to be proxies for kasrkin/scions in 40k

>>96231317
You're right, that's probably it.

>>96231307
having gotten dokidoki literature club free in some bundle somewhere or other, I found the poetry mini-game let you write some really grimdark shitty Abnett-tier paragraphs. It would fit in a Remembrancer for bonus levels.

>>96231287
For saturnine praetors you'll probably wanna wait for tactica journal 2 with the saturnine command squad rules. Saturnine terminators with fist do not want to be in combat against anything above a tactical marine, with WS 4 and only 2 attacks...

What was the point of Istvaan V Journal Tactica? It's straight up inferior version of book 2, only nice thing is new 3d map, but there is no "after" map.
There are some numbers given but as always with GW they still make no sense.
What was the point of it? What's the point of heesy 3.0?

>>96231224
>we don't need to change our pricing structure
I'll never understand people retarded enough to say this.

They currently have their production capacity maxed out, while frequently selling out preorders and struggling to keep the back catalogue in print.

I'd fully agree with the idea that a price drop would bring in more players and collectors... but there'd be no fucking product for those hypothetical new people to even buy. Capacity is tapped out.

And the popularity is still growing even with absurd prices, so even when they get the next factory up and running that new production will be instantly gobbled up by people willing to pay current prices.

Anyone who thinks "the price structure" is something that can/should/could be changed is a baby-brained pisslet. Of all the things to ask for you're literally asking for personal charity. Utterly delusional.

p.s. Fuck James. Fuck Pardo.

>>96231343
They're just the AP3 flamer delivery squad. Fists and praetor are there in case you get charged or need to mop up a tank in melee, or even Terminators which will mostly shrug off the AP3 wall of death

>>96231379
Over 400 points just to flame some power armoured unit doesn't sound appealing to me. With how slow saturnine are you'll get to flame once in the turn you deep strike, not even kill half their point cost, and never get to use the flamers again because everybody can just out run them.

>>96231395
A couple of them can essentially wipe out a veteran squad in one volley. So thats a good chunk of points already.

>>96231395
>>96231404
even if you don't wipe out something expensive like a vet squad, just clearing a big blob of tacticals off an objective seems pretty good. A couple satties plus a praetor are pretty hard to shift from an objective, so you don't really care about chasing stuff around

>>96231425
I would be careful about testing that hypothesis. Yes, theyre tough, no, theyre not invincible. You want to be careful around enemies that can setup into you denying you your big flamers, because you probably just wont get to fight past that point vs a lot of similar price things.

But yea, the saturnine flamer bomb is pretty nasty.

>>96231425
God damn, they actually look kinda cool in IW colors and in poses that aren't just like a fuckin' idle stance.

>played the game yesterday
>had fun
enjoy these times while they last lads. We might get discontinued in the future. We may have to deal with actual important shit. We may fucking die.
If you don't want to give money to GW pirate everything, buy from Xi Jinping or print your stuff, but seriously, play with some friends to whatever edition you like and have a blast, life's too fucking short to be bitter about plastic soldiers

>>96231451
Basically, if you flamer some tacticals off the objective and then get charged by some thunder hammer terminators (god forbid ws5) you are going to get massacred, praetor or no. If you get swamped by thunder hammer vets? youre also dead.
If you get near a meltagunner unit? Probably also just dead.

Youre going to have to really exploit your deep strike to alpha-strike targets and set yourself up to survive the counterpunch.

>>96231459
That's where you're wrong kiddo

>>96231459
>GW is still hasn't created all the rules yet
>"I played the game"

>>96231497
I dunno chief, I still had more fun playing around retribution before the game was finished

>>96231497
Then macca hasn't even started writing any rules yet LMFAO

>>96231459
"The game is better than being dead" isn't the endorsement you think it is

>>96231267
>theorycraft a Disintigrator Moritat that wasn't out and out suicidal
That's your problem. The Shadow Killers that Guilliman based the Moritat off of had no regard for their own lives whatsoever. Suicide wasn't desirable, but it was acceptable.

>>96231268
Based off their weapons, I think bottom is the standard Lasrifle, and middle is a lasrifle with blast charger? (Or other way round?)

>>96231468
to be fair, every single unit in the game dies to those things. And at the very least the chargers get roasted by flamers and you have decent enough invulns to tank some melta shots. I don't think "dies to massed thunder hammers" should really be used as a measuring stick

>>96231497
>no one ever played HH 1.0 until 2.0 was released because still hadn't created all the rules yet
>no one ever played HH 2.0 until 3.0 was released because still hadn't created all the rules yet
Figures a retard like you has capeshit gifs as reactions

>>96231581
So that's why every time a new edition is released the previous one suddenly was perfect according to everybody.

>>96231581
>>96231511
>shoving HH into the planned obsolescence sales category
>edition launched purposefully incomplete
>despite the backlash and the delay on the legacy pdf, GW still going to cut units
>come on guys, just give it a try
no

>>96231459
Shut up Pardo. Back into your teacup.

What have you losers all been complaining for, nobody in here ever plays the fucking game anyway.

>>96231712
Yeah, /tg/ dwellers are all busy playing competitive 40k because they're subhuman

>>96231625
On top of being retarded you're also illiterate. I said I had more fun PRE INFERNO, ie IN 1.0, then when the game was "complete" with all legions

>>96231727
my post lined out why i'm not going to play this game. see how your opinion on "fun" didn't make the list? it means it's irrelevant
faggot

>>96231726
If they're playing at all. Most people on /tg/ sound like they're the vegans of tabletop wargames: obsessed and constantly talking about the one thing they got nothing to do with.

>>96231765
OK cool so you're an NPC, got it

>>96231775
>quick, he's not consooming the newest thing
>call him an NPC
you know that's not how it works, right?
the begging at the beginning was pathetic.
>come on, pirate it, support china, anything, just give it a go
you sound like a neutered bitch

>>96231192
>No wonder they fucking felt like they needed to literally do In Bold summaries to how EVER SINGLE RULE worked in the game.
Don't forget that a bunch of the summaries are incomplete/misleading. Like how plenty of people didn't understand Ordnance (AP) because the summary just omits that it works differently.

>>96229140
Is ‘Torn to Pieces’ or ‘Denial of Life’ the goto track for playing this guy?
>>96231287
Is that a fucking Swarmlord sword?!?

>>96231351
To part you from your money.

>>96231852
That's clearly a Nostroman Chainglaive, get your eyes checked.

>>96229228
:O
Though the warp did delay them and purposefully spit them on Phall instead of on Istvaan, no? Sail today, tomorrow or yesterday, they would never reach Istvaan to help the loyalists

>>96231894
don't make me want to play DoW again. Actually, are there any 30k mods?

>>96228038
>Best book (tied with HH1) signed by Bligh
What a flex woah

>listening to some badass music makes me want to convert some moritats
>No jump packs, no more outstretched arms, no more fancy pistols or scopes or gun accessories
>Hell not even really any more bodies just like two mk IV legs with static poses
It's over...

>>96231930
no anon, we're living in "the good times". just have a blast already.

>>96231930
T-pose for the Emperor

>>96231933
I want to make a moritat with a single engine jump pack with a plasma pistol that has a wire connected to the back pack and a second smaller wire connecting the scope to under the pauldron with a shealted broadsword and a second plasma pistol of a different mark with no scope but still a wire feed and a wrist mounted bolter.

>>96231938
sounds like fun, be careful with that round here

>>96231938
>single engine jump pack
I'm trying to visualize your description, but the single engine jump pack really steals my attention

>>96231967
the mkiv one

>saturnine sprues have 3 pounds international shipping
bongs are still desperate to off load. minimum purchase is one sprue

>>96231982
...isn't the reason bongs make you pay so much for shipping is so they can track it otherwise there's a high chance they lose your order overseas

>>96231872
The Saturnine, 2nd reply, not the Marine guy referencing Death. My eyes are bad but at least I can read. Come on man

>>96232017
no idea. intl shipments ebay stores have been over 20 US from europe for so long, this one in particular caught my eye. pretty sure this store buys sponsored listings too

>go check British ebay since anon keeps shilling it
>still asking for 40 dollars for a praetor
10. Dollars. That's my maximum. And buy an ad next time.

>>96232056
>40 dollars
Might as well buy directly from GW if you're gonna get ripped off that hard.

>>96232056
line goes goes down is the most enjoyable part of this launch, every day we inch closer to the dip
the anticipation is terrible, i hope it lasts

>>96232039
... I was making a joke. I didn't even notice you also replied to an actual chainglaive

>>96232056
The Praetor is a sprue and a half large, I don't think it's going to get to $10 on normal ebay stores, chief.

>>96231967

>>96232072
oh please GW will sell it for 50-60 smackers.

>>96226985
>>96226999
Vehicles didn't have legion traits in 1.0

>>96232164

>>96232205
Get the flamer

You know, if we actually get a Scouring game, I hope they turn the Ultramarines + 2nd founding successors raping the Night Lords on Tsagualsa into a Legendary Mission

>>96232210
geonosian genocide in bound, general

>>96232219
They should do the same for the Iron Warriors raping the Imperial Fists in the Iron Cage

>>96232241
>>96232241
>>96232241

>>96232184
Salamanders vehicles got a 5+ invulnerable save

Are units who appear from the ground with that SM Prime benefit (Tacs or Despoilers only) considered to have moved?

I don't think attaching a Siege Breaker to a HSS squad is a good idea. It'll help them defeat Vehicles (smoke launchers), but they'll become a super juicy target. Also, the SB will just stand there waving his hammer menacingly

>>96229961
Considering he's not legal below 3400pts, yes.