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Thread 96255371

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Anonymous No.96255371 >>96255650 >>96255747 >>96255747 >>96255775 >>96257632 >>96257637 >>96257790 >>96261114 >>96278829 >>96283078 >>96283802 >>96307852 >>96324091 >>96325301 >>96341170
What's the best edition of Shadowrun? I have a copy of pic related (20th anniversary) that I got years ago as a christmas gift but never played. I've heard that edition is good. Are there any must have supplements? How does Shadowrun compare to Cyberpunk 2020 and RED?
Anonymous No.96255650 >>96257632
>>96255371 (OP)
Maybe play it?
Anonymous No.96255723
They're all terrible, but in different ways.
Anonymous No.96255747 >>96287790
>>96255371 (OP)
>>96255371 (OP)
I actually liked 4e (what the 20th Anniversary Edition is), but most fans like 3e best. 4e is less "the future of the 80s" and more "the future of the 00s".

You can just use the base book, and then figure out which aspects you want to explore more and get those.

But honestly Shadowrun is kind of a mess. Unless you really need the magic, do Cyberpunk instead. I actually know that there's a couple magic fan expansions for RED, though...caveat emptor.
Anonymous No.96255775 >>96255959 >>96257632 >>96277155
>>96255371 (OP)
Here you go.
SR is a dog shit system in a cool as fuck setting.
Anarchy is also shit, but it is still better than any other edition of SR available.

It's honestly a much better idea to use the Genesys ruleset to run it.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZFpVXyUmmIlPmmJY8E7oWzLaUZebfzqX/view

That's a SR setting for Genesys.
Anonymous No.96255959 >>96257072 >>96257279
>>96255775
Why would I wanna run Genesys?
Anonymous No.96257072
>>96255959
It's a good all rounder generic system.

To be honest though, I would recommend you learn how to use ANY generic system. Having a toolkit that is built around you tailoring it to any setting while having solid core mechanics is a much better option than learning a bunch of specific systems for specific games that might fall flat or trying to make a rigid system work at doing shit outside it's wheelhouse.

Every generic system has its pluses and minuses. Genesys using a proprietary dice pool is a negative but that same dice pool resulting in pretty dynamic results besides just pass or fail is a positive.
Genesys, BRP, GURPS, Savage Worlds, FATE accelerated, take your pick. Lean into it, learn it well enough you can plug stuff into it effortlessly and run it smoothly. It will give you much more value for time spent learning it than learning specific systems ever will.
Anonymous No.96257279 >>96257567 >>96291672
>>96255959
It's a system that's so successful that they don't make the dice for it anymore
Anonymous No.96257567 >>96291672 >>96325307
>>96257279
That can't be true
>Dice are selling for over $90 used
Fuck me. I got 8 packs of those fuckers.
Also got 4 packs of the Warhammer 3e dice unopened. Wonder how much those are worth.
>$80
Not bad.
Anonymous No.96257632 >>96257784
>>96255371 (OP)
>Best Edition
Carbon2158 or CyBorg. This is not a recommendation of D&Dogshit and Borgslop, but an indictment of every edition of Shadowrun. Honestly, any cyberpunk genres system will do you better than Shadowrun. The only games branded Shadowrun were playing are the >>>/vrpg/ games.
>vs. Cyberpunk
The dice pool system is built on top of bad math, and the magic system muddies the genre to retarded levels. But the real kicker in the minutiae of how everything interacts. Inconsistent subsystems, rules that don't want to talk to each other, and so much shit that needs to be referenced in book during play, it all falls to shit. The only thing I give SR over SP2020/R is the autofire weapons rules are a bit less clunky.
>>96255650
It is a total faggot move to not take a day to ask around a but before spending time learning a game.
>>96255775
Genesys is a lot like GURPS, not mechanically but insofar that if your group has the right flavor of autism, it's perfect for you. But if even one person just can't do the buyin needed to gronk the system, the campaign will flop within weeks if that much.
Anonymous No.96257637 >>96299070
>>96255371 (OP)
The german translation of the current edition iirc
Anonymous No.96257784 >>96257926 >>96257937
>>96257632
Takes like an hour to read an average rulebook at most.
Anonymous No.96257790 >>96259429
>>96255371 (OP)
Every time this comes up, the general summary of the discussion goes something like this:
>If you want old Shadowrun, play 3e. It's the most complete.
>If you want new Shadowrun, play 4e. It's the least fucked.
>If you speak German, play 5e. Fan version is massively improved.
>DO NOT TOUCH 6E.

We also had a "cyberpunk inspiration" thread in October 2023 where I compiled everything suggested into a PDF with links. Can't post those here now, but the thread and PDF are still accessible in an archive
>https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/90697300
Anonymous No.96257926 >>96257937 >>96257948
>>96257784
You don't have to lie here, man.
We actually do know that reading a complete rulebook takes longer than an hour for over 95% of RPGs.
Anonymous No.96257937 >>96259453 >>96263528
>>96257784
>>96257926
250 pages per hour for basic comprehension is average, most RPG books I have are well over 400.
Anonymous No.96257948 >>96259841
>>96257926
>over 95%
Single-page rules-lite RPGs would surely skew that number in the other direction
Anonymous No.96259429
>>96257790
Neat, thanks.
Anonymous No.96259453 >>96260109
>>96257937
250 is for pages of a "normal" book. RPG books are formatted all weird, with bigger pages, lots of tables and images, etc. I'm not sure what the equivalence is, but it isn't 1-to-1.
Anonymous No.96259841 >>96259870
Rolled 19, 4, 13, 5, 11, 4, 3, 4, 11, 5 = 79 (10d20)

>>96257948
Rollan
Anonymous No.96259870
>>96259841
A chatty blue collar pensioner with brainware and implanted blades who just wants to find someone to settle down with. Not the strangest NPC I've seen in a shadowrun game.
Anonymous No.96260109 >>96261348
>>96259453
250 is for textbooks, which RPG books are similar enough to. 300 is for novels.
Anonymous No.96261114 >>96261844 >>96295276
>>96255371 (OP)
5E is the most ungodly complex (aside from 3E) but also probably the most balanced.
4E and 6E are way easier to play, but game balance in 4E is really unsatisfying and 6E is even worse with about half of all character options being utterly fucking worthless.
Anonymous No.96261348
>>96260109
I have never heard of someone reading 250 pages of a textbook an hour and comprehending shit.
Anonymous No.96261636 >>96261844 >>96264868 >>96266496
Why do we hate 2e?
Anonymous No.96261844 >>96263703
>>96261114
Humans in 6e (or perhaps all along?) really should have had a +1 bump to Body and Strength. Puts them underneath the bruiser metas by just a slight bit and makes elves feel daintier and just a bit more fragile. Also, allows you to get a boost to something other than special Attributes and/or Edge.

>>96261636
We do not. Skill web for life!
Anonymous No.96262044 >>96262097
I think 3E made mistake of cramming all the 2E soucrebook concets into the corebook.
2E was more modular and less dense.
As much as any edition of Shadowrun can be said to "less dense".
Anonymous No.96262097
>>96262044
And it made more to fill up more books! That said, I do like the possibilities of making a character who can cover implant surgery for the group and cost them less Essence to boot!

Fun fact - you can buy that surgery option as an edge in chargen. 12 points, and you can have a wire or whatever that takes up 30% less Essence! After that, though, it's all up to the surgeon's skills and the dice.
Anonymous No.96263528 >>96263911
>>96257937
1.5 page per minute is the average rate of reading comprehension using a standard book.

Given the weird layout and size of most gaming books, that's probably a bit slower.

90 pages an hour on average. Let's say you got a read 200 pages. Thats about 2 hours and 15 minutes. And that's just straight up studying the material.

The stance of knocking out a CRB in an hour is just outright wrong.
Anonymous No.96263703 >>96268741
>>96261844
My main gripe with 6E is that a lot of game mechanics that made certain attributes important got gutted. For instance, STR in 5E gives you Armor Encumbrance, Melee Damage, Physical Limit, Recoil Compensation. 6E got rid of all of that, so STR is literally fucking worthless. (Okay, that's not entirely true. It does still give you unarmed damage. But why only unarmed? Why not anything else?) I also really hate how combat uses abstract Combat Ratings and how everything costs Edge to do. I liked Edge as a supplement to the system to help you out in those critical moments, not the core gameplay mechanic that cannibalizes the nuance of everything else!
Anonymous No.96263911
>>96263528
I can read about 100 or so pages of a novel in an hours to 1.2 hours or so. I struggle to read even 50 pages of an RPG rulebook in an hour, of course depending on the layout and the font-size.
Anonymous No.96264868 >>96268741
>>96261636
Never played 2e myself, but a buddy of mine says the granularity of Shadowrun got too much for him with 2e "adulterated fuel" rules. Basing dice rolled on how you cut/dilute your vehicle's gas took him out of the immersion.
Anonymous No.96266496
>>96261636
We don't, it's a good base.
Some 2e splatbooks had better ideas for some subsystems than the corebook, 3e compiled them into one book, which is why people prefer it.
Anonymous No.96268741
>>96263703
I get a lot of that, and be prepared to be salty over it not giving you unarmed damage, but here's a PoV from someone who started when the Rigger Black Book and Shadowtech were still the hot shit 0 technically, Strength didn't add to melee damage in 1e to 3e, either. It affected the power of your melee attacks, but not the damage level; in 5e, this would have been akin to Strength increasing AP instead of DV, while in 6e, it sits nicely as the AR.

(Some rules exist to do an extra DV or two in 6e if you have Strength 7 or 10, respectively. That's also fine.)

As for Edge, like it or not, Karma Pool is gone for game design. I don't think it's ever really coming back the way it was. At least Edge got the beating it deserved in 6e to stop making Lucky Lou the do-everything guy for having Edge 8 and just breezing past everything with exploding, no-limit rolls.

>>96264868
6/10, you actually got me to look in Rigger 2 to see if I forgot something.
Anonymous No.96270074
Does your system require an entire night to make a character, unless you use an external too?
If so, it's a bad system.

Sadly the fact that you need Chummer to make a character, then to keep track of all the changes that happen along the way, makes it a terrible system.
Anonymous No.96277155 >>96286227
>>96255775
I ran Anarchy for a little bit, after stripping out all the collaborative theatre of the mind shit
its okay, but I wish there was a midpoint between it and normal SR
Anonymous No.96278829
>>96255371 (OP)
That's probably the least jank edition.

On the whole, I think it's worse to run than CP2020/Red. If you really want the magic, consider Cities Without Number and its guidelines for mixing magic with cyberpunk.
Anonymous No.96283078 >>96283305
>>96255371 (OP)
4e is the best. It doesn't have the shitty priority versions of the newer ones, doesn't have the grognard shit of the older ones, and has a ton of content.
Anonymous No.96283305
>>96283078
Most players in 5e like priority because it lets them make much more powerful characters. I built a dwarf using sum-to-10 in Chummer and it told me the equivalent karma cost would have been over 1100. Meanwhile the same book that gives you sum-to-10 allots you 800 karma points by default. Of course you want to go priority or sum-to-10. Other benefit of them is that if you really want to you can still build a character with just a piece of paper, as the one girl at the table then chose to. Have fun doing that with karma gen.
Anonymous No.96283566 >>96283615 >>96283658 >>96284815 >>96304312 >>96307852
Okay, can someone explain to me what is actually so bad about Shadowrun?
Why did it fail where CP succeeded? I know that combining magic+guns+hacking+drones probably makes for a crunchy game, but there are other crunchy games out there and they're all doing fine.
Why did SR actually fail?
Anonymous No.96283615
>>96283566
>Why did SR actually fail?

Forgotten Realms syndrome. It got really popular almost right out of the gate, had a ton of supplementary content (splat books, novels, video games, etc) which expanded on the setting. But in expanding the setting, they ended up making it smaller. Canon characters, canon events, canon plotlines, they all filled up the spaces that players tend to occupy, giving the sense that there's nothing left for them to do.

Basically it got too big, too fast, and burned itself out.
Anonymous No.96283658 >>96315266
>>96283566
A long chain of terrible business decisions, including genuine fraud, that drove away all the competent people working on the system halfway through 4E. The only people left are people who just want to push their OCs and frustrated writers who aren't capable of even halfway passable game design.

The editing of the books and fluff has been going massively downhill since then. 5E wasn't too bad mechanically because at it's core it was 4E with some common houserules but it also introduced a lot of new problems of it's own. The fluff/metaplot was also pretty awful to start with and got progressively worse as time went on. 6E was so fucking bad both mechanically and fluff wise that it totally killed the game.
Anonymous No.96283802
>>96255371 (OP)
4th or 5th, if you want:
>players
>tools for running the game as a new GM
>tools for your new players to keep up with Shadowrun's crunch
2nd or 3rd if you want:
>atmosphere/vibe of old cyberpunk, comparable to Blade Runner or Soldier
>classic books and scenarios in the setting, like PF1e's run of APs and gazetteers
>nerd cred, ie; someone to suck you off for running their preferred edition (2nd and 3rd are vocal about their preference)
Anonymous No.96284815 >>96284934
>>96283566
It's bizarre we live in a world where Cyberpunk can be considered a success.
Anonymous No.96284853
BUUUUUMP
Anonymous No.96284934 >>96286184 >>96286281
>>96284815
The irony is that CP success is 50% due to the video game and 50% due to the anime. It literally had nothing to do with the system.
If shadowrun had something like that, with the elf office ladies, catgirl ninjas and orc musclewaifus, it would be an even bigger success.
Anonymous No.96286184
>>96284934
It's practically 100% anime, RED was dead in the water on release and 2077's reception was less than stellar.
Anonymous No.96286227 >>96312816
>>96277155
Honestly, using a generic system with a SR setting is the best route. SR is a massive piece of shit, in every edition, from a mechanical standpoint, but the setting IS cool as fuck.
It's like WoD games in the regard. Shit system, great setting. WoD was less shit in that a mage from Mage can show up in a Hunter or Vampire game while still using all of his kit from the Mage books and fit in just fine. SR isn't cross compatible with anything.
Anonymous No.96286281 >>96287062 >>96287073
>>96284934
Shadowrun had a few computer games about a decade ago. They were low-budget turned-based isometric RPGs.

I guess the question now is why Cyberpunk were able to license themselves to a big studio making a big game and Shadowrun weren't?

Though Harebrained Schemes was founded by Jordan Weisman; maybe if he'd been less concerned about making the game himself and more willing to license it out to whoever like the MechWarrior games, it could have struck it big.
Anonymous No.96287062
>>96286281
>I guess the question now is why Cyberpunk were able to license themselves to a big studio making a big game and Shadowrun weren't?
Because CDPR had a bunch of Cyberpunk 2020 nerds and went forward to contact Pondsmith about licensing the setting. He also got to create a TTRPG based on their Witcher series, adapted from the Cyberpunk rules.
Anonymous No.96287073
>>96286281
Shadowrun also had a PVP team based arena shooter back in the 360 era that was surprisingly fun.
Anonymous No.96287692
There was a podcast that adapted Free League’s Mutant Year Zero game engine.
Would be a fun idea to have another crack at it since the SRD is online.
Anonymous No.96287790 >>96289066 >>96316033
>>96255747
What if you like Shadowrun's net more?
Anonymous No.96289066 >>96289274
>>96287790
What do you like about it more? The hacking rules?
Anonymous No.96289274 >>96316033
>>96289066
What you can do on it. The net as a concept is something I really like about the setting and it feels like shadowrun lets you play with them and cyberpunk doesn't. Cyberpunk gives you the old net but if you use it you're basically just one check away from meeting something that can instantly kill you. Shadowrun has resonance realms and zones that are kind of similar in danger but you aren't punished for playing in them.
Anonymous No.96289831
For Savage Worlds players, you can try Sprawlrunners.
Anonymous No.96291672 >>96325307
>>96257279
>>96257567
https://a.co/d/9g76QBP

45 bucks on amazon, not cheap but not 90 bucks either
Anonymous No.96295276
>>96261114
>5e
>Balanced
And yes I know they are all an ungodly mess. However, 5e splat structure combined with lack of coordination and quality control creates something uniquely bad.
Anonymous No.96299070 >>96299814
>>96257637
why don't the germans translate it into english?
Anonymous No.96299814
>>96299070
Because CGL refuses to die.
Anonymous No.96300272
Someone once said rather than make stats, just take the Threat for all NPCs and use that as the pool for every roll. Changing equipment as needed.
Anonymous No.96304312 >>96306253 >>96306730 >>96306769 >>96306969
>>96283566
It's mainly that the business side of things is terribly ran and the dumb fucks won't touch fixing the core flaws with their system (d6 dice pool only counting 1's and 6's is garbage design). When everybody and their brother released a d20 version of their game in the early 2000s, SR staff's official response was "d20 is shit. Fuck anyone who uses it." So market asked for a product and they said, "fuck you" to the market, which is honestly a good enough reason for them to fail.
Anonymous No.96306253
>>96304312
To be honest, dice pool systems exist and work quite well. SR isn't the only one with them and won't be the last. Though I do see your point about counting only 1s and 6s and ignoring everything else.
Hell, the fact that you need to suffer through an entire night to make a character on chummer, or spend a week to make a character with pen and paper, that's the bigger issue.
Anonymous No.96306730 >>96311466
>>96304312
>d6 dice pool only counting 1's and 6's is garbage design
This is not how SR works.
Anonymous No.96306769
>>96304312
Mutant Year Zero and derivatives have dice pools where only 1/6 matter.
But they are also much simpler.
Anonymous No.96306969 >>96307767 >>96307779 >>96310670
>>96304312
Shadowrun's dice pools are not the problem, the resolution mechanic is fun.
It's the needlessly complex sub-systems found in almost every single aspect of the game starting with chargen and including stuff like changing shotgun spread.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zh9GkBl_ieg
Look at this channel. Every 5-min video on it should've been just one roll or one modifier instead.
Anonymous No.96307767
>>96306969
>changing shotgun spread.
And then everyone ignores it anyway because shot/flechettes are shit and slugs are better in almost every case.
Anonymous No.96307779 >>96310654
>>96306969
Honestly, the thing that keeps me from Shadowrun is the fact that there isn't (as far as a know) a quick and dirty way to stat and run enemies, beyond just sort of eyeballing dice pools. I'd be the one running the game, and the game just seeks like a massive chore to run.
Anonymous No.96307852 >>96310803
>>96283566
As the other anons pointed out it's a mix of overcomplicated rules, especially character creation (which suffers from the books being a chore to use, too many rules in too many different books and also from a shitload of options which are basically just fashion statements - the latter is fine in itself but having half a dozen light pistols with virtually the same stats is going to be a problem for anyone getting into the system when it could be just one statblock with 7 names to chose from) and subsystems (they tried to streamline things, especially in 5 and 6 and then spectacularly failed by just adding bloat in different places), bad management of the franchise by everyone who isn’t the German publisher, and also the whole cyberpunk meets fantasy shtick being kinda weird and scaring off both cyberpunk and fantasy purists. And this is coming from someone who is playing this weekly.
>>96255371 (OP)
5e (especially the German stuff) if you want modern SR
3e if you want old SR
Both have their issues mind you, but they can be fund if you indulge in the setting and either completely ignore or embrace the metaplot
Anonymous No.96310654 >>96311349
>>96307779
>there isn't (as far as a know) a quick and dirty way to stat and run enemies, beyond just sort of eyeballing dice pools
And what's wrong with that? After a while you get a feel for how large or small a character's dice pools are
Anonymous No.96310670 >>96310775
>>96306969
Frankenberger doesn't understand the mechanics of Shadowrun, don't use him as your source. Why can't you accept that crunchy games aren't for you instead of trying to change what Shadowrun is?
Anonymous No.96310775 >>96311441 >>96314020
>>96310670
I don't use him as a source, I use him as an example. Even if his advice is wrong, the unnecessary complexity is still there.
What is gained by making shotgun shells affect four different combat numbers in three different settings? How the game is made better by having the GM track all of this?

This could maybe work in a video game where shotgun spread just changes the shape of the cone you can see on a screen and all the fiddly bits are handled by a machine, but there's no reason for that to be a factor in a paper&pen game.

>Why can't you accept that crunchy games aren't for you
Bullcrap. 2020 has rules for shotgun shells that are also crunchy and "simulation-y", but somehow they stopped themselves for cramming in rules that nobody ever uses.

2020 makes the GM run the game both in the meatspace and in a fantasy-like digital dungeon for the guy who wanted to play Johnny Mnemonic. Shadowrun writers saw this and knew how it creates the "netrunner pizza problem" and wisely decided to not only make the Matrix just as complex as the Net, but also throw a third "map" for the mages with Astral world.
And then, in later editions, they added a fourth mini-game that's just hacking but using renamed rules for magic.

tl;dr
Crunch is good when it serves purpose and isn't there just to pad out page count in splats.
Anonymous No.96310803 >>96311158
>>96307852
>spectacularly failed by just adding bloat in different places
As can be seen with the Edge in 6e.
They started with a good idea: instead of counting modifiers for cover, darkness, distractions, etc., just see which side is better prepared/equipped and give them a bonus.
But then they ruined it by making Edge rules at least thrice as long.
Anonymous No.96311158
>>96310803
That way can lie madness.
Sinless is a Shadowrun retroclone.
It just used one difficulty number for all tests based on how hard the run is supposed to be.
Anonymous No.96311349 >>96313290
>>96310654
The problem is the "after a while," of it, anon. I don't want to eat shit for a month or two worth of sessions to get to the point that I can inuit that shit, on top of having to learn how to do all of the other shit that SR demands.
Anonymous No.96311441 >>96311629
>>96310775
>even if this guy doesn't understand the rules he's explaining you should take that explanation as gospel
Are you okay anon?
Anonymous No.96311466
>>96306730
Shadowrun has a problem with brainlets who'd rather run their mouth about what they think the system is instead of sitting down to read what it actually is.
Anonymous No.96311629 >>96312747
>>96311441
>making up stuff that wasn't said
>dodging the point
If you're a troll, good job, I got got, now fuck off.
If you're simply a retard, let me just grab the rules straight from the source, so you can stop pretending that it was ever relevant who made that youtube video. Now you can adress the actual point of needlessly bloated rules, but I doubt you'll do.
Anonymous No.96312747
>>96311629
What's the problem here? Rules make your brain hurt?
Anonymous No.96312816
>>96286227
You don't know anything about the Shadowrun setting, which is the funny part. All you know is that it has elves with guns. That's the sum total of every brainlet that claims they love the setting but hate the rules, when the setting is designed with the rules in mind.
Anonymous No.96313290
>>96311349
Iirc (big if) there's appendices in the 5e core book that have sample stat blocks for various foes the party might encounter that should help give you a general idea of what size pools you should be rolling against the players. Might be slimed down to the more relevant dice pools as well.
Anonymous No.96313905 >>96314750 >>96316021
Why play 5E when 2E/3E is all available as PDFs?
Anonymous No.96314020 >>96314727
>>96310775
Alright am curious, what do you consider a good crunchy game?
What kind of game adds rules that make for a better play session?

I guess 2020 is answer from your post, but am legit curious as to what you would consider a good crunchy system.
Anonymous No.96314629 >>96314652 >>96314825
Honestly, as frustrating as 5E is to deal with, it's the only edition of Shadowrun I've actually played. Couldn't imagine sitting down and trying to put up with an older edition simply because the consensus is that it's supposedly better, and I've heard enough horror stories about 6E to stop me from ever trying it.
Anonymous No.96314652 >>96314776
>>96314629
6E has some good stuff to steal for 5E but as a whole yeah it's pretty bad.
Anonymous No.96314727
>>96314020
I've had fun playing 2020, but I also had a great GM, so I can't tell where his expertise ended and the game's merits began. In the end I'd say it's a good game, but it got some serious flaws.

I think the difference lies in crunch that serves a purpose and crunch that is... just there. F.e. in 2020, if your attack hits, you also need to roll an additional d10 to see what body part got damaged. It adds time but also matters because
1) the hit body part may be cybernetic
2) it's supposed to be a deadly system, so you want the danger of a lucky head-shot looming over the players.

On the other hand, this system fails whenever someone decides to use automatic fire, because resolving one attack now takes several minutes as each bullet needs to roll both damage and hit location, not to mention the target's stun/death saves.

Mekton Zeta solved this issue by rolling only for the first location and then going up or down the body part table (or rather mech servo table) when an attack is made out of multiple projectiles.
And Γ  propos Mekton Zeta, that system got crunchy combat that takes a while to resolve, but the reward is that a lot of different things can happen: critical failure of the nuclear reactor, shield that saves the pilot just in time, mech with a melted off arm delivering one last desperate melee attack, an energy sword cutting off the other mech's wings, etc. So there's a reason for that complexity.

And to not be overtly negative on Shadowrun, there are subsystems where complexity is used to make choices that matter, off the top of my head, the specialisations of skills makes the skill system more complex but for a reason, even if that reason is min-maxing.
The initiative pass system is complex and frankly unbalanced, but it serves its purpose of making street sams extremely lethal.
Anonymous No.96314750
>>96313905
5e has more online tools and macros.
Anonymous No.96314776 >>96324316
>>96314652
>6E has some good stuff to steal for 5E
Like?
Anonymous No.96314825 >>96314899
>>96314629
I can understand that as all the editions have a bunch of problems that require extensive houseruling and 5E is the only one you're likely to get into if you don't have a pre-existing group. 5E is also the only one that's particularly well supported by VTTs which is another barrier to the older editions.

I've played 3E, 4E and 5E. My ideal edition would be somewhere between 4E and 5E as both have their problems. Personally I prefer 4E as it's far easier to steal the good rule changes from 5E which were mostly just common 4E houserules that CGL copied anyway rather than try to unfuck 5E. 3E is pretty fun as well for that more classic cyberpunk feel.
Anonymous No.96314899
>>96314825
>I can understand that as all the editions have a bunch of problems that require extensive houseruling and 5E is the only one you're likely to get into if you don't have a pre-existing group. 5E is also the only one that's particularly well supported by VTTs which is another barrier to the older editions.
5E also has Chummer, which makes it easier to deal with the pain in the ass that is character creation and management, significantly cutting down on the frustration.
Anonymous No.96315266 >>96316059
>>96283658
It certainly didn't help that the writer of the original metaplot (the stuff with the Immortal Elves and the Bugs and the Horrors) had just got the point of finishing most of the set-up and starting to arrange the resolution when he died suddenly in the mid-'90s, leaving behind not a lot of useful records of how things were supposed to turn out. (He kept most of it in his head to avoid spoilers. Oops. In fairness, nobody *plans* around having a sudden fatal heart-attack, let alone at only 35.)
FASA had to scramble to salvage that whole thing and come up with a new metaplot, and arguably they never quite found an even keel again. Add that to the aforementioned business issues and their seeming inability to settle on a ruleset....
Anonymous No.96316021
>>96313905
Because 5e isn't a total fucking dinosaur of 90s game design decisions like 2e/3e. Also not all PDFs of FASArun are properly liberated as scans.
Anonymous No.96316033
>>96287790
>>96289274
You could always try to adapt the Net.

In particular response to your post, you could use their system of escalating alerts before you get to the attention of the spider or GOD.

You can also adapt the zone system easily enough, though resonance realms start getting into magic-y sort of stuff.
Anonymous No.96316059 >>96316116
>>96315266
To be fair, the problem with that one was that it seemed to forget that the net existed. Which isn't meant as a dig against Nigel Findley, his books like 2XL showed he was thinking about ways that the tech and magic could combine in horrible ways. But he didn't get around to fully explaining the important part before dying, leading to the problem where the magic horror plot always felt separate from the matrix plot.
Anonymous No.96316116 >>96320854 >>96321222
>>96316059
>leading to the problem where the magic horror plot always felt separate from the matrix plot.

This is great because this is my main beef with Shadowrun in general.

It's very easy to end up in a situation where a combat situation is actually three different, only loosely connected, combat situations: one in "real space", one in the Matrix, and one in the Astral Plane. It means that at any time, at least 2 players are going to be sitting on their asses doing nothing. And since combat (and hacking, and magic) can get pretty finicky in Shadowrun if you want, each turn can take several minutes. I feel like 4e tried to fix this a little by blurring the lines for deckers and introducing the "combat hacker" and little ways that hacking can immediately and directly effect the real world, but in practice everyone I knew still played it mostly separate...and of course, CGL backed away from this somewhat in 5e.
Anonymous No.96320854 >>96324125 >>96324610
>>96316116
the other players can play video games or do something else while the matrix and astral stuff is resolved
Anonymous No.96321222
>>96316116
Yeah 4th edition and earlier the 'hacker turn? pizza run!' was pretty standard, 5e more or less fixed it. You can still get those situations with magic/technomancers as well, worse than 5e hackers sometimes.
Anonymous No.96324091
>>96255371 (OP)
Is there a cyberpunk and especially SR useable Solo game like Parsecs?
Realy I don’t wanna GM another campaign but I’d like to do some fun operator shootout missions in the SR setting with my wife
Anonymous No.96324125
>>96320854
The hallmark of a good /tg/ is when players have time during the game to play /vidya/.
Anonymous No.96324316
>>96314776
For me the technopath options. Specifically, it adds sprites that can take over objects instead of being limited to matrix actions. Letting you be a technopath rigger much easier than the godawful loops you have to go through.
Anonymous No.96324610
>>96320854
This has not been true since 3e.
Anonymous No.96325301
>>96255371 (OP)
The Genesys conversion.
Anonymous No.96325307 >>96328016 >>96331544 >>96332201
>>96257567
>>96291672
Digital rollers are free
Anonymous No.96328016
>>96325307
>Electronics of any kind at the table
Anonymous No.96331544 >>96332442
>>96325307
Automating dice rolls through computing is one of many examples where people try to make something as simple and cheap as rolling bones and making it expensive and complicated for no reason by involving computing unnecessarily.
Anonymous No.96332201 >>96332429 >>96332442
>>96325307
The point of playing SR for me is the ability to roll a dice bucket.
What's the point of SR if not for the massive dice pools?
Anonymous No.96332429
>>96332201
The cool hits you get. Also roleplaying but I seem to be the only one who cares about that.
Anonymous No.96332442 >>96335462
>>96331544
>>96332201
The thing yall are missing is some people are so scared of math they'll take any and every shortcut
Anonymous No.96335462 >>96336084 >>96338130
>>96332442
But dice pools obscure math by design.
Anonymous No.96336084 >>96336714
>>96335462
I mean, barely. If I'm understanding your point correctly. (That dice pools make calculating the odds harder)
Sure you don't have it as easy as "ya need a 17+ aka 20% chance
Anonymous No.96336714
>>96336084
Yea, you can sorta guess that you're supposed to get number of successes equal to 1/3 of the number of dice, but without pen and paper, it's hard to calculate percentages.
And when the players don't know the exact percentages, they tend to be more risky which is usually desirable.
Anonymous No.96338130
>>96335462
Which is fine.
With a D20, you have as much chance of rolling a critical success as you are with rolling a critical failure. PF2E does this a little better by introducing "If you get 10+difference, consider it a crit. But, especially at low levels where the bonuses are +1 and +2, Critical success or failures pretty much have the same chance.
Anonymous No.96340736 >>96341054
Shadowrun should just use a 2d6 system like Traveller
Anonymous No.96341054
>>96340736
The only thing Shadowrun should take from Traveller is the possibility of dying in a lifepath
Anonymous No.96341170
>>96255371 (OP)
3rd. That is all.