Has anyone GMed or played this thing? What's it like? I won't watch recordings of other people. That's a bad and inefficient way to gain information.

No, i dont play games.

>>96255997 (OP)
It’s a containment game for literal fags who have only ever played 5E. They think the existence of this alternative to dnd is somehow new and revolutionary. Let it do its job of soaking up retards while you keep playing what you’re already playing

For context, I have played Dungeon World, GMed Homebrew World (with the follower rules from Infinite Dungeons), played and GMed Fellowship 1e, played and GMed Fellowship 2e, and GMed Chasing Adventure.

I GMed the Daggerheart quickstart for three players (and went a little further with a bonus encounter against the colossus Ikeri, a spellblade leader, and an Abandoned Grove environment, during which Ikeri was one-turn-killed: https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/95975566/#95994135 ).

I wrote up an actual play report, during which I concluded that Daggerheart just is not for me, even relative to other PbtA games.

I am still fairly invested in the game. I like the playtest material that they have available:
https://www.daggerheart.com/thevoid/

And I am eager to see what Keith Baker will be writing for Daggerheart:
https://darringtonpress.com/gencon2025-announcements/
>New Daggerheart World by Creators of Eberron and More: Finally, we have Keith Baker and Jenn Ellis’s new world in Daggerheart! From the minds of fan-favorite RPG worlds like Eberron and innovative tabletop games like Phoenix Dawn Command, Illimat, and the Adventure Zone Storytelling Game, Twogether Studio’s Keith Baker and Jenn Ellis are partnering with us to make their next grand world using Daggerheart. Expect thrilling worldbuilding and brilliant new player option designs from this powerhouse team.

Oh, and I also homebrewed this modern-day demigod campaign frame:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Vw4-EKpOZJ9rIxjGvy_h7yCY4pEao-gBY-3rLMdkvzE/edit

And in case anyone wants the apotheosis mechanic in more system-agnostic form:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1v3i4nuoQ0fdLxodt7QScrMgt5CEo7gfX4SK46JkpU8k/edit

>>96256139
>t. redditor
We get it, you suck diversity politics dick and you need to show what a good boy you are at all times and that you don’t do wrongthink because you’re afraid of feminists denying you access to pussy or something equally neurotic. Chill

>>96256139
Informative, thanks. Is there a link to the play report?

It's a pretty based game considering it was made by closeted right wingers like Matt "well hung daddy" Mercer.

When you ignore the token liberal character art (like the femboy samurai or the gnome in a wheelchair) you get a pretty solid alternative

>>96256209
Matt Mercer is not a right winger

Isn't it PbtA? Like the world needs yet another one of those. I guess it would probably be better for it's target audience though, who now after watching paid actors and professional DMs, think DnD is an interactive TV show.

>>96256461
i hate pbta cause of the "no need for initiative or rules just be true to the narrative" shit it's pretentious and insists upon itself

>>96256206

I am still doing what I can to clean up its formatting.

>>96256461
>>96256484

Daggerheart is close to PbtA, the way I see it. The game borrows several PbtA concepts, down to soft moves and hard moves.

>>96256484
It all boils down to the misconception that dnd and roleplaying games are about telling a collective story, and not about existing in a world.
RPGs are games about making decisions, in the context of a fictional character in a fictional world.
You shouldn't need rules for roleplaying and the core gameplay of an rpg. Combat has rules because it's an abstraction and needs to be simulated in a fair manner.

>>96256209
>Matt Mercer
>right winger

>>96256209
This game prominently features a character with tranny mastectomy scars, combat wheelchairs, and a section where they hired a disability sensitivity consultant to tell players not to use disabilities as disadvantages.

>>96255997 (OP)
In concept, some of it sounds fine. In execution, it's a very mediocre game with very high production values due it being pushed by a very large company trying to force themselves on the RPG industry via Critical Role's massive pop culture presence.

For instance, having little cards that contain every ability and spell makes it so every player can just have a little stack of cards to thumb through so they can double check what all their abilities do without having to crack open the book. Sounds great, right? Well, the cards are mandatory, and you're only supposed to have one set, which also means that, by the rules, no one is allowed to have the same ability. The cards aren't optional, they're required. They are functionally the same as having a D&D ability that you write down on your sheet, but the rules insist on having the card aspect be required. However... you can only have FIVE "active" at a time.

Secondary to that, is that all abilities are strictly written to fit onto the bottom half of a card. Some of these are fine, others are a whole card to say "you get advantage on picking locks" or "you get a +1 on these rolls" which is then made worse by all the fiddly "roll with hope/fear" and "mark a stress" type mechanics that require constant moving of little token and baubles on the table, making it an unholy chimera of a card game, board game, and RPG, with some shitty vidya game sensibilities tossed in. Instead of being fast and intuitive, I could see it very quickly becoming tedious as every player meticulously rereads their entire collection of cards over and over and over, every single turn while they deliberate on which ability they can use in the moment.

And none of this even gets into the highly questionable jank of the "Hope and Fear" dice which seem like they are purposefully designed to spiral out of control every session.

>>96256206
heads up, this is touhoufag and his style of play and the things he looks for in a game are WILDLY different to what most people like

this guy is powergame autism masturbation given form,
>he literally does not know how, as a GM, to roleplay a negotiation where an adventure says "The NPC mostly wants this macguffin... but might take other things" and so just listed what the adventure said and skipped to resolving it. He has been roleplaying for at least fifteen years but can't fucking roleplay.
>he regularly runs "one player controls a stable of characters who are functionally statblocks" type games, all combat no roleply, as if tabletop RPGs were literally a CRPG
>he makes assumptions about players utilising optimisation that are, frankly, abnormal.

feel free to read his reports but know he is a statistical outlier and should not be used as part of a dataset.

>>96256912

>roleplay a negotiation where an adventure says "The NPC mostly wants this macguffin... but might take other things" and so just listed what the adventure said and skipped to resolving it. He has been roleplaying for at least fifteen years but can't fucking roleplay.
You are referring to the Draw Steel negotiation rules. Those are mechanically codified. I have been following them. For example:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tuhoB77e9EZ6OALSq5AXJxMHTfPvUoJ6bz1WgtiXNwI/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.egyydatoc6xb

>he regularly runs "one player controls a stable of characters who are functionally statblocks" type games, all combat no roleply, as if tabletop RPGs were literally a CRPG
I ran Daggerheart for three separate players.

>he makes assumptions about players utilising optimisation that are, frankly, abnormal.
I ran the Daggerheart quickstart using the pregenerated characters provided.

>>96256912
>>96257060

Also, even if I had not been using the quickstart's pregenerated characters, it would be a bad sign if level 1 characters using the core rulebook can be optimized to distort game balance.

>>96256912
All I need to know that 2hu is shit is that he has never played GURPS.

Is daggerheart a good setting to run with kids? It looks less rules heavy, although the rules they have might be too confusing for some kids.
If not, what is a good rpg to run with 5-10 year olds (boys and girls) who like run of the mill fantasy? (Knights, princesses, fairies, dragons, magic, etc)

>>96260056
>running ttrpgs with 5 year olds
why?
just say silly make-belive things and read fairy tales and shit

>>96256191
What the fuck is wrong with you, retard?
A guy wrote something informative about the subject of this thread, and you spewed some /pol/ tier PARAGRAPH of cliches.
Are you even human?

I gave it a whirl with my group; it's pretty fun, thus far. Feels pretty rules-light. It strikes me as the sort of game that works best with a mature group that trusts each other and is mutually there to tell a story together, though; I imagine it would fall apart pretty quick if you had an "adversarial" DM or a problem player, due to the hope/fear mechanic. Not everyone has a deck of those ability cards, so we just use post-its to keep track of 'em and that seems fine.

I played a goat-person druid. The world furnishes many opportunities for you to kick people off ledges. 'S cathartic.

>>96256582
>>96256214
He's not saying that Matt is a right winger, he's saying that there are a lot of fans of his who aren't commie faggots. Which is true.

>>96255997 (OP)
>while you keep playing what you’re already playing
Assuming OP plays traditional games.

>>96260116
The curse of touhoufag
Dude is an autistic weirdo but at least he does, in fact, play games and can provide actual feedback compared to most of the nogaems wasteoids on this hellzone

>>96260229
Why would they be fans of a commie of they aren't commies?

>>96260762
You don't need to like somebody to enjoy their work.

>>96256904
>>96260203
bit confusing whether the cards are required or not innit? can you proxy them like mtg?

>>96260905
False in Current Year. Keep up, old man.

>>96261022
Sorry, I'm not gay.

>>96261063
Is that even legal?

daggerheart more like daggerfart lmfao xD

>>96261123
Imagine the smell

>>96261123
More like faggershart amirite rofl lmao

Critical Role continues its destructive rampage in TTRPGS, will it ever end?

>>96261068
I moved out of California about five years ago, so I think it is now...

I feel like the Frames aren't that great.
Umbra is too much like Witherwild. Delicious in Dungeon is fun to watch, not to play. Motherboard is boring and the Kaiju one is just a confused mess.

>>96256139
You posted this early in the last “thread”, too. I hope you sell lots of games.

It's like if you take savage worlds and knee capped it.

Honestly it's interesting in some of its systems, but honestly leave it to be the proverbial quarentine it is and actually play the game with better versions of all of it's concepts. SWADE.

>>96261317
Agreed. The kaiju one sucks because we could've had a proper wild western frame instead of that schizo blend of nonsense.

>>96261489
Attack on titan/Shadow of the Colossus meets The Dirty Dozen does have a vibe to it.

>>96261506
Not really. The kaiju supplant other antagonists to the point they're practically the only antagonists. It's not AoT/Monstr Hunter meets X, it's just AoT/Monster Hunter. The X may as well not exist.

>>96255997 (OP)
I'm enjoying being set free from 5e hell and have been having success using it as a stepping stone to get people to try other systems that are more suitable for what they actually want to play. I think my favourite 'twist moment' so far was getting a group to realise they didn't want a narrative first system, they wanted to go and play Pathfinder - character building and development for them was about the mechanical choices and building the sheet, working with a set of legos rather than being given a sandpit

>>96260928
Cards are "required" like you require spell cards for D&D. They're useful reference tools and add a layer of tactile play to the game that helps when I run it for youth groups (making sure to bring the laminated set I make myself because I'm not making that orange juice and tomato sauce mistake again). I do agree with that first anon about the fiddliness of the system saying "move a marker" "place a token" sorta shit which isn't needed, it's trying to force players to use a specific way of marking off/tracking their resources and making it seem way more complicated than it is due to things being spread out for no reason beside "just cause".

>>96262304
Yeah the cards and tokens feel like a training wheels approach. If you can already do basic player tasks like calculate your modifiers or reference spells you really don't need them. The staggering implication is that most new players probably can't.

>>96257091
Maybe people would take you more seriously if you stopped using Honkai art for every post, Samefag-kun.

Still, appreciate the review

>>96262755
Didn't it used to be touhou?

>>96255997 (OP)
Never even heard of it.

>>96262891
It's the new gay DND killer. But DND is gay now too. I don't know which is gayer. Why is every RPG gay these days.

>>96262939
I see. I think I'll just avoid it then and stick to BECMI like the oldfag I am.

>>96255997 (OP)
>Faggerheart
Lol. No.
Buy an add

>>96260116
Holy crap get a load of this fag

>>96256191
>calling touhoufag a reddit
fucking toruists
shouldn't you still be on /co/ pretending to know Superman

>>96256904
maybe you'd have a real opinion if you played the game instead of imagining what it'd be like to play ttrpgs

>>96257060
>Those are mechanically codified.
you're still supposed to close the hood and hide the mechanics

>>96260056
5-10 is an impossible range
they'll be more interested in whatever they have on their heads than he collective experience, and I'm not talking collective storywriting as much as aknowledging the things the GM describes or waiting for the others to finish speaking to start talking. And that's if they are interested.

I'd recommend going absolutely systemless at the stat, just describing scenarios and back and forth to get them in the rhythm, and slowly incorporating things to judge success when you get the impression they'll be cool winning or losing.

>>96263210
he is a fag and a redditor and a tranny yes

>>96263224

>you're still supposed to close the hood and hide the mechanics

This is impossible when several class features directly interact with the interest and patience mechanics.

Additionally, Draw Steel: Heroes, p. 387, has the following to say:
>Sharing Interest and Patience
>It’s up to you as the Director to decide whether to share an NPC’s interest or patience during a negotiation. Sometimes sharing this information can make an encounter more dramatic, with the players watching their progress rise and fall in real time. Other groups might find negotiation more fun and immersive if those exact numbers are hidden from the players, just as some groups like knowing the Stamina of every creature in a battle and others prefer to keep that information secret. Talk to your players about what they’d prefer.

My players and I saw no reason to beat around the metaphorical bush and obfuscate interest and patience, so we kept them transparent.

>>96260229
no, that anon is saying that liberal token representation is an indicator of being secretly right wing. If 4chan posts go above your reading level don't go around pretending to have a deep understanding about anythijng.

>>96262485
>most new players probably can't.
most new players don't know that they can
it's a layer of complexity that keeps people away from the hobby
>hurr durr keep the tourists them away
it doesn't work that way, you have people itt that clearly never played a game in their lives and still feel the need to tell others how to play

>>96263335
>most new players don't know that they can
>it's a layer of complexity that keeps people away from the hobby
An inefficient, backwards Common Core-equivalent solution like this isn't going to help them and will only hurt in the long run.

>>96263347
how is it gonna hurt?
how is it gonna hurt the hobby more than 5e?
everyone complaining about this are being hysterical.

>>96263398
It's going to hurt them because the method is inefficient and unnecessary.

>>96263481
and when people play ttrpgs everything is efficient and necessary.
you're a tourist and everyone can tell because you say absurd stuff no one would say, you have no reasson to make this a culture war or whatever you're trying to do. Don't larp as someone who knows shit.

>>96263224
>maybe you'd have a real opinion if you played the game instead of imagining what it'd be like to play ttrpgs
Take your own advice, shill.

>>96260928
There is an optional sheet you can download that just has an array of empty boxes to fill with the abilities and powers on the cards. The whole card thing is literally just a sales gimmick, but the book treats them as required and the future books and material they intend to sell for this game will be more cards for more of the "domains" so it's definitely not just a handy reference item you can use at the table if you want. It's something they expect everyone to use, and it's why the game is only sold as a "core set" with the cards, as far as I can find.

>>96260056
The 10 year olds might be able to grok it, if they are autistic enough, but it's not less rules heavy at all.

>>96256536
>You shouldn't need rules for roleplaying and the core gameplay of an rpg. Combat has rules because it's an abstraction and needs to be simulated in a fair manner.
Fucking thank you. I've met too many dumbfucks who think that fucking ROLEPLAY needs to be codified, meanwhile they constantly need the GM to hold their hand when it comes to basic roleplay.

>>96264514
you codify aspects to make them different from other games. You play WHFRPG differently because there's a chance to catch a disease from bad food but you don't have the money to get good food, you play PbtA differently because you spend less time in combat and more building aspects of the world. It's a different experience.

>>96263552
Who or what do you think you're even replying to? Are you schizophrenic? What culture war are you talking about, moron? Imagine trying to make encouraging simple mathematics and reading skills a fucking political issue. Do you still count on your fingers? Jesus Christ.

>>96263335
>Misses the mark that bad
>Blames others of reading comprehension issues
It's like pottery.

>>96264765
You're complaining about a design style that existed for decades and saying it's dangerous for the hobby because it's tied to a designated enemy. It's culture war bullshit.

>>96256209
Femboy Samurai?

>>96256209
I am not sure about the ring wing part ut Matt is good at not going full commie like some of his friends.

The most leftist thing he has done is saying "fuck terfs" during the Candela Obscura campaign.

>>96265099
You're schizophrenic. You're fucked in the dead.

>>96265209
>The most leftist thing he has done is saying "fuck terfs" during the Candela Obscura campaign.
He's a misogynist too? Based.

>>96256139
Is there enough game there, mechanically, to really play? I feel like I like the PBTA style in theory but when I try to actually play it there's not enough system to justify mastery and it quickly gets dull.

Obviously this isn't a one size fits all answer, but is there at least more mechanical meat to Daggerheart than a Wildsea or a Blades in the Dark?

>>96255997 (OP)
It's meh as fuck and like 5e they didn't playtest it enough as they basically have rules that will KILL their game if people abuse it. The Combat Wheelchair is a perfect example.

At the end of the day. They threw a bunch of rules from other game systems into their own system but they didn't refine it enough and it going to end up like most half baked systems. I think it would be a great "Streaming" system for people and be loved by the theater kids who took over the hobby but most gamers will drop it quickly in favor of better systems. As >>96262304 said. This is playing with legos vs playing in a sandpit. People who want to play and work with the system would prefer something with some meat on it over a bare bones system that clearly meant for streamers and people wanting to act out of play a game.

>>96268444
blades unironically has more meat than this

>>96255997 (OP)
At this point faggotheart is essentially the second wall of containment around 5E to catch theaterfags, cr fans, and trendchasers and prevent them from shitting up actual hobby scenes like the osr, historical wargames, the sca, and serious board games. I’m grateful to Mercer for keeping his drooling sycophants fenced in

>>96271120
i've never seen anyone play osr or anything else unfortunately just 5e mtg and 40k

>>96271191
Stay within those zones, thank you.

>>96271120
I have played in actual fun OSR games but OSR on /tg/ is just old farts and wannabe old farts circlejerking

Seems I am about to play it soon, many around me are pissed with the fucking clowncar that is current year D&D, and the clunky combat.
To those who have played it, are there any specific rules that are downright retarded and should be avoided/homebrewed?

>>96255997 (OP)
I've played only a few sessions but it's not bad
You can be really flexible with characters builds given the weapon variety and domain abilities
The only problem I think I have is the duality dice, rolling with fear can be such a detriment, Its not tje best thing for game feel to feel bad despite succeeding a roll.

>>96271314
>To those who have played it, are there any specific rules that are downright retarded and should be avoided/homebrewed?
doing whatever you want whenever you want because having formal initative is against le narrative. so fucking pretentious and retarded.

>>96269198
>I think it would be a great "Streaming" system for people and be loved by the theater kids who took over the hobby but most gamers will drop it quickly in favor of better systems.
Aside from the gimmickry to drive sales, I think this is another reason for the cards. When they play it on stream, every time a player goes "I use Fartpush" an editor can toss the card up on screen and the audience can read
>Mark Shart and roll with Poop to give your character the Greasy Pepperoni Fart status
And then everyone watching can feel like they're learning the game.

>>96274316
>doing whatever you want whenever you want because having formal initative is against le narrative. so fucking pretentious and retarded.
The lack of initiative is what my friends are most hyped about, will see how it goes. I will likely be the first to DM it, so I am worried.

>>96256139
What an obnoxious set of games you have played.

Can Daggerheart do brutal OSR dungeon crawl?

>>96275510
lol no

>>96275510
Brutal means hurting peoples feelings which is against the inclusive atmosphere you as a Daggerteller must strive for. Above table, remember to use safety tools and take mental health breaks every session.

>>96275976
>Daggerteller
Is this yet another media word for a nigger doing crime that /pol/ should know about?

>>96275510
You can't even remove someone from a wheelchair. Nah, it's only good for new age woke fantasy stories.

for all the hype nobody seems to be playing this

>>96276994
Next Critical Role will spark interest. It will use the system.

>>96255997 (OP)
I love this game because its a containment for the wave of nu-dnd players that 5e and CR have blighted us with. Do i want it to be successful? No. But i am willing to accept a lesser evil for the greater good.

>>96277107
I agree, we need a containment system for the theater kids and drama queens and I think Daggerheart would be the best one like how Tumblr was for the Woke and Shippers till they got rid of porn.

>>96277107
Why?

>>96277107
>>96277126
Comparing it to tumblr doesn't have the implications you might expect. It's a breeding ground that stengthens the illness until it spills over and influences other communities. It's not a containment area, it's a terrorist training camp. Look what tumblr culture did once it got free and went to Twitter.

>>96262939
>Why is every RPG gay these days.
Gay people have louder voices than straight people, and more importantly America has been devastated with ideologically-minded employment.

>>96280704
You can also blame it on approval seekers who elevate gayness as a virtue in an attempt to fish for more attention and acceptance. They prioritize making shit gay to signal to other approval seekers that they are "one of the good ones" and that they believe in good and correct things, like how important it is to signal to others that they celebrate gay shit (perhaps their most sacred belief)

I hate the campaign frames
>Witherwild: Princess Mononoke, The Legend of Zelda, The Dark Crystal, Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind
>NOTHING LIKE PRINCESS MONOKE, ZELDA OR NAUSICAA
I fucking hate californians so much

>>96281390
>FIVE BANNERS BURNING
>A Song of Ice & Fire
>(+ Avatar, Babylon 5, Dragon Age, Eberron)
>WHOOPS IT'S JUST HBO GAME OF THRONES

>BEAST FEAST
>just Dungeon Meshi
>but without the dungeon and just lol quirky lets eat monsters

>AGE OF UMBRA
>Matt Mercer just likes Dark Souls
>mentions Berserk without anything in the at all in the frame inspired by Berserk

>MOTHERBOARD
>clearly just Horizon Zero Dawn
>LISTS THE ENTIRE FF SERIES AND FULL METAL ALCHEMIST AS INSPIRATION
>???

>Colossus of the Drylands
>Cowboy Shadow of the Colossus

>>96274874
at least he's played games you nogame fag

>>96271120
>muh EXCLUSIVE CLUB
anon, none of those are special. You are not special

>>96256032
Neither did the creators!

>>96256054
Another way to look at this is to see how popular DnD is without CR or rather we can gauge how much is CR a contributor to it's popularity based on how well the book does. I will say this, the system is a fucking slowball to medium sized developers to make a videogame out of.

>>96271294
I played a B/X game through /tg/ back in 2021-2022 and it was comfy. That said, it wasn't really advertised as an OSR game and had its own thread, which probably filtered out the worst of the OSRfags.

>>96260056
unironically any system. if the kid is invested, the kid will hyperfocus on learning all the rules as possible. start by creating characters for them and running some fun scenarios.

>>96281409
Colossus frame is particularly shit. Total mess.

I'm running a campaign right now I'm enjoying doing prep work for and talking with two of the players outside sessions about world building and real world inspiration for things. Unfortunately two of the other players, twice in a row, shown up the day before and said they can't make it. We play anyway, doing a 'soft session' that focuses more on personal PC goals and us talking OOC about world building, and those two players know they're on their final warning. Overall Daggerheart has, for me, cut out a lot of the rules that players try to "uhm, acktually DM" me about, but it can't stop the classic scheduling issues or players being liars about their time.

>>96271314
idk about avoiding or cutting it out but I constantly plain forget that you're meant to roll to move as your main action or something. I see people bitching that druid is broken though personally have not looked into it, and it is easy for players to have permanent flight if that's something that annoys you

>>96282071
how do you manage the retarded initiative ie no fucking initiative

>>96281927
I assumed as much

>Let's climb Collosus!
>Give ranged weapons
What a shitshow

>>96282091
I had trouble trying to grasp how it could work in a good way from only reading the book. Once I actually started running combat it flowed easily, I know it sounds like bullshit to say it but you treat it like you're shooting the shit with your mates "wouldn't it be cool if..." and you go and do that, with the added twists and turns of dice rolls throwing in an outside source of change. Wouldn't it be cool to try and set up a combo against an enemy? We don't have to worry about set turn order, yeah let's set that up and see what happens! Players rolling and generating the Fear meta currency that I can at any point interrupt adds a nice light layer of risk/reward push/pull on who is in control without making it a rigid turn order

What's stopping a DM from dumpstering all their Fear to fuck over a PC? Nothing. You can say a rock falls and everyone dies at any point. You're the DM.

I feel a lot of set turn order DMs will struggle with speaking above the table/OOC/"metagaming" to manage who is taking action, or tell someone to shut up and let someone else have a turn if they're being a turd, but that kind of social directing and group management needs to happen no matter if there is or isn't a set turn order in combat. Removing that set order takes away that protective layer for a wuss DM not wanting to 'cause conflict' or whatever.

If the no initiative thing is a huge turn off for you I recommend not touching this system. It does say in the book to put in a turn order if you want but it's not built on that type of game play, and I would not be surprised if the general community gets all smug and belittling if you say you want to run a game that uses set turn order since go back to 5e you 5e baby

>>96282285
>but that kind of social directing and group management needs to happen no matter if there is or isn't a set turn order in combat
not really tho

Did anyone proof read this?
What the fuck am I meant to do with this?
>this session is different
>how? FUCK YOU

>>96283259
You're right, it can be a clusterfuck of screeching retards

>>96280667
I would agree with you but these people clearly don't and never intend to play games outside of this bubble.

>>96280667
Or look at what this place has done to twitter now that /ourguy/ musk is in control. Actual terrorism training camp.

>>96281409
So basically just listing a random assortment of faux nerdy series. I will bet my bottom dollar that Matt or the rest of his crew have ever actually played through Dark Souls to completion or read a chapter of Berserk.

>>96283569
I assume they plan to release their incredibly derivative settings as future sourcebooks.

>>96256912
>heads up, this is touhoufag
How can it be 2hufag when no 2hus are posted? Checkmate, anon.

>>96281390
>>96281409
Sorry, could you expand on what this frames are?
I'm assuming it's like a setting, but I'm not sure what they do to define it.
I also though that Motherboard was gonna be a weird attempt at stealing a couple players from Mothership. The Asylum style.

>>96282091
Into the Odd and Mothership don't have initiative either. You have a binary thing, roll to see if the your character got jumped/couldn't react in time/had one shot before the enemy; and after the enemy attacks it's players and then the enemies. People just act. If they have some synergy that makes it better for someone to do something first they can do it. If one player is way too anxious and needs to act first he does and then he waits, if someone is unsure they can wait to see what everyone does.

It's very easy to manage, that's why it's been a thing for over a decade.

>>96284291
having players go before NPCS is an initiative system, it's just not a dice based one.

>>96284849
isn't the same here, you just don't have formal initiative inside each side so players decide when they do their actions and even act at the same time if they have an idea.

>>96284849
I went and re-read it to make sure.
The wording might confuse you, but there is an initiative system with two elements. First the GM judging how things should go, which is a big ask and it's not friendly to new players at all, and second the enemy acts when you fail a roll, which is like PbtA where you take damage when you fail an attack instead of the NPC doing an attack roll. Except that here the NPC also does an attack roll, kinda wonky imo.

>>96284256
Frames are barebone campaign settings focused more on the pitch to the players with an emphasis on trying to have a tone & feel with themes.
So the "Witherwild" campaign frame says a GM should make the game feel "Adventurous, Dynamic, Epic, Heroic, Thrilling, Whimsical" and you should watch Princes Mononoke, Nausicaa, Dark Crystal and Zelda before playing to pull from.
>Hey do you want to play a game of D&D Avatar the Last Air Bender and babylon 5? We should play Five Banners!
>Do you want to play Full Metal Alchemist or Final Fantasy? We should play Motherboard
They are skeleton campaigns because it's easier to develop.

>>96283898
It's weird, "With Love and Magic" the romantasy expansion coming is still being called a "frame"
But who the fuck is going to play a Romantasy game?

>>96283569
It's to match the formatting of the other frames that actually do switch up ancestries and classes. Since this frame doesn't they went full lazy route of keeping the format without any substance. Lame.

>>96284291
>>96284871
Not even close to the same thing. Here a single player can go or try to go multiple times in a row if they're spergy enough. Round robin isn't even remotely the same.
>BUT JUST POLICE THEM
No, that's retarded. Initiative formalizes and contextualizes the process in a way even the most severe of autists can understand and get onboard with. Complete free reign, and don't give me that collaborative hugbox spotlight shit, is a fucking disaster waiting to happen. A dungeon master has enough responsibilities already, what the fuck is the point of playing Mother May I with FUCKING INITIATIVE of all things.

>>96286509
>Here a single player can go or try to go multiple times in a row
I thought a GM can spend Fear to force an enemy turn?

>>96286521
I'm talking about player turns among players.

>>96286249
but is there a skeleton to fill or just a pitch?

>>96286509
some people find managing the focus easier than keeping track of initiative. Both are pretty simple for me so I wouldn't know what issue is making the struggle, but I've seen 5e games that crawl to a slog figuring out who's turn it is. Similarly, policing people to not do too much or policing them to stay in initiative is the same thing. If someone want to solo a sequence they'll try it no matter what the system says.

>>96287455
>I've seen 5e games that crawl to a slog figuring out who's turn it is.
How? Everyone rolls, you put them on a list according to the number they roll, you go down the list. It's simple.

>>96288194
I know. It's very simple.
When I used to play 5e I was the one keeping intiative and made sure to inform who was next afterwards as a head start. Before I started doing that it was like they reset after each action. I think people give DMs a pass because they are managing too much stuff, but if anyone should be following the big picture it's them.

When I run MoSh I can perfectly remember which players haven't taken an action yet. It's not hard if you care about what's going on.

>>96283259
So you've never had to handle a group with someone talking over others, or people not stepping back to let a player whose PC clearly is more related get the chance to shine, or encourage a new player to speak up, or get everyone to move on from making fun of someone fumbling a rule? I've had to do this in games with set combat turn orders. Removing the set turn order has only improved the cooperation and creativity from my groups without making those issues worse than they may have already been.

>>96286509
Anon you sound like someone with a mental illness that has rigid thinking in regards to rules (which gets mischaracterised as a "strong sense of justice or fairness" at times). I've had players and kids at my work like this that refuse to let go of the first rule they've learned about how a game should play out. You may want to work on not assuming that a lack of a rule will instantly mean loss of control and fairness, or that the only thing stopping other people from being massive cunts is a single rule.

>>96287442
It's mainly a multiple page pitch with various prompts and pieces of the world you can use and adapt to better suit your group. There's various prompts throughout the frame for both the person running it and the players to answer if they want, as well as a set of session zero questions. The campaign frames thing is a lot like how I already prep my campaigns over the years, so it's nice to see a system core rulebook give a few different ones for people to play with and use as their own prep template.

>>96287455
>>96288989
hey let's also let people decide collectively if an attack hits or not. why do we need rigid rules to tell us? let's go by what's right for the narrative. and don't track hit points, just let players decide if their character's taken too much damage or not. skill checks? nah, trust the narrative! what feels right in the moment? use common sense!

>>96256820
or, you know, players and GMs continue to do as they please, as they have done in any setting of any DM

>>96256904
you can just print the cards though - for free
https://www.daggerheart.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/Printer-Friendly-Cards-Daggerheart-May212025.pdf

>>96256191
>not knowing 2hu
Lurk moar

>>96289502
You're a twat.

>>96289555
yeah but muh outrage and 4chonz

Played in a one-shot last night. Two people got their turns skipped over because another person was louder and got the GM's attention first. We agreed to implement a loose initiative framework after that, but half the group is already pretty soured on the game from that.
Also how come two classes get locked off from using weapons that do magic damage? You'd think that the fighter would want to pack something that can be used in case the foe being fought is resistant or immune to physical damage. As far as I can tell there is literally no reason for the restriction to be in place. The explanations I find are that they're cantrips for magic users but that just seems like a weak excuse. Let me be a fighter who uses wacky magic shit, damnit.

>>96289809
no you don't get it you were all supposed to stay true to the narrative and actually not having an initiative system meams players pay attention more and actually it's because you weren't policing enough and actually it won't help because that player would still be able to skip everyone else in turn order even with regular initiative

>>96289809
>Also how come two classes get locked off from using weapons that do magic damage? You'd think that the fighter would want to pack something that can be used in case the foe being fought is resistant or immune to physical damage. As far as I can tell there is literally no reason for the restriction to be in place.
Unironically the answer I got was "stop worrying about metagaming and optimization, this isn't that kind of game."

>>96289555
>It's a pretty based game considering it was made by closeted right wingers like Matt "well hung daddy" Mercer.
>it doesn't matter! just do whatever you want!
Make up your mind, faggot

>>96289502
who goes first isn't the same as dealing damage or doing actions. Optimizing or moving around turn order isn't as disruptive as doing max damage or being untouchable. This is a retarded slippery slope argument.

>>96289809
group initiative is already a struggle for some GMs, I've had to stop autists that wanted to keep going minutes after I explained they had one big action and one movement, so making it entirely free form would be even nicher.
I can see the mental picture they want, the GM directing the players like it's an orchesta, pointing at them to play their solo. But orchestas practice, this is improv theatre at best.
Still, if you let people hog the spotlight you're not the GM for this game, that should had been obvious from the get go.

On the magic weapon part, I'm pretty sure the GM is expected to design things around the party or design the party around the plot. Don't give them enemies they can't hit unless the expectation is that they'll run and interact with the world while a caster keeps them at bay or something like that.

>>96282091
>>96283259
>>96286509
>>96274316
The 'Spotlight' initiative system is a really good litmus test to see who has a group of mature adults and who is playing with a bunch of selfish spergs. When the game has to put up guard rails to protect everyone at the table from each other the people who could be trusted not to be assholes suffer for it. Go play 5e or whatever and enjoy waiting in initiative for 30 minutes just to miss or get stunned or something.

>>96255997 (OP)
I've been GMing since the game's release in a weekly campaign. It's been really fun. The game gives the GM a lot of ways to complicate the PC's actions through the hp/stress/armor/hope tracks etc. It merges the emergent narrative emphasis of PbtA/BitD games with the crunchy tactical elements of games like D&D 4e.

>I won't watch recordings of other people. That's a bad and inefficient way to gain information.

Probably better to just read the book and play instead of asking all the tards on /tg/ as well.

>>96256054
I don't like 5e at all but I quite like Daggerheart.

>>96256484
PbtA games have rules.

>>96268444
Don't listen to that other Anon. Daggerheart has more crunch the BitD. Each class has access to two 'domains', power sources, essentially. And each domain has 2 powers per level (3 at level 1), and you get a at least one new one every level. The player facing aspects sometimes feel 4e-like.

>>96271314
The only thing I've homebrewed personally has been the group rolls to make them mechanically similar to BitD group rolls.

>>96256536
What a dumb take. If your game doesn't have rules for roleplaying (making decisions based on a fictional character) then its not a Role Playing Game. Its just a war game that you do your free-form RP with.

>>96290621
>When the game has to put up guard rails to protect everyone at the table
all this while you're glazing a "game" with "safety tools" and invincible wheelchairs lmao

>>96290528
>Optimizing or moving around turn order
there is no fucking turn order that's the goddamn point dumbass

>>96290642
So now you like to have writen rules so the GM has to stop strong players from imposing their style?

>>96290651
oh, you're confused because you though the spirit of the game was that everyone spoke at the same time. Yeah, that does sound confusing, but no, players will fall into order and act one at the time.

>>96290675
right and they'll come up with a good narrative conclusion to combat scenes all on their own no need for rolling to hit or damage or hit points they'll all fall perfectly into order

>>96290686
I was making fun of you, is your issue actually that without initiative people will speak over each other? Are you 12? How do you manage non combat without an initiative?

>>96290701
what the fuck is there to manage with non combat? your fucking theater kid soliloquys?

>>96290632
>If your game doesn't have rules for roleplaying then its not a Role Playing Game
Pendragon and Burning wheel are the only two systems I know that actually have rules for roleplaying
and both systems are incredibly niche with barely anyone playing htem

>>96290735
If you play with no exploration, no dungeon delving, no hex crawling, and no interactions with NPCs I can see why you'd be confused.
This is a game made by the Critical Role people for people who want to play something like Critical Role. Not every game has to match your taste, but apparently you have no non combat time so I'm not even sure what game you'd like. I hope you find one because it's a nice hobby and you'll get it once you play some games.

>>96290740
There's also the PbtA family and BitD. Old D&D has them too.

>>96290773
>here are more extremely niche games that do it
hardly justifies your take
PS
also can you spoonfeed me or point to specific pages of PHB?

>>96256536
>It all boils down to the misconception that dnd and roleplaying games are about telling a collective story, and not about existing in a world.
Wow some of you really are autistic faggots huh

>>96290835
pbta isn't more niche than pendragon, what are you talking about?
Dave Arneson:
>Instead of awarding points for money and Jewels acquired in the depths of the Dungeon or hoarding items against the indefinite future, the players will receive NO points until they acquire the items listed below unless it happens to already fall within the area of their interest.
>Wine
>Women
>Song
>Wealth
>Fame
>Religion or Spiritualism
>Hobby
You have to interact with the world to earn XP. Each one of this have their own rules. Wine gives XP until you get drunk, you have to get sober to gain more XP from buying wine. You lose XP if your song activity results in damages that need to be paid.

>>96290740
>and both systems are incredibly niche with barely anyone playing them

>Pendragon
>The multi-year grand campaign that successfully immerses anyone that plays it in the world of King Arthur, from the rise of Uther to the Battle of Camlann
>Surprised it's niche with barely anyone playing it
And I wouldn't have it any other way. Pendragon should only be played once, but every game group should try.

>>96286270
Women, duh.

>>96256209
You either are speaking as a pink blooded commie or you have secretly seen Mercer fucking a blonde woman after a catholic traditional wedding in the back of a red Ford truck, secretly.

I've spent a half hour looking this game up and I know nothing about the setting. As far as I can tell its just generic DnD races and setting.

>>96290621
>The 'Spotlight' initiative system is a really good litmus test to see who has a group of mature adults and who is playing with a bunch of selfish spergs
Where do you think the term That Guy comes from? It's just a part of life sometimes. You don't always have an ideal group but it's not quite bad enough to drop them or start a stink over it at the table.

>>96292718
then play another game
why are you making critiques based on the premise that all your games gotburned and you're forced to play this?

>>96292160
Women don't play D&D

>>96292709
There is no setting, the races sorry I mean ancestries as all vague kitchen sink shit. Th campaign frames do give broad strokes of a setting to play around with, but there isn't a core base setting ala Forgotten Realms. That said, they do have the Eberron guy making a setting book or something, which I'm curious to see how he does that since Eberron was a lot of going "yeah I'm not like other girls (FR)"

>>96292718
>not quite bad enough to drop them or start a stink
Stop being a pussy and tell them they're being a shithead, only in a more tactful but firm manner. You're not some retail worker who will get strung up for telling a customer no, you're a person playing a hobby game in your free time and get to control who you spend that free time with.

>>96293115
women don't play D&D with most people who come here

>>96293517
>women don't play D&D
Fixed

>>96292709
Critical Role didn't bring their setting to their RPG game.
It's a shit show

>>96293666
It has official licensed products with WotC I'm not surprised it isn't in Daggerheart. I'd also prefer they make some new kitchen sink to further distance from being a 5e thing, I'm using Daggerheart as a crowbar to pry 5e only players off it to try new things that actually suit what they want from a TTRPG

>>96255997 (OP)
To put it in a single sentence

It's a TTRPG for people who have no interest in TTRPG

The whole card and story design feels like it is meant for [E for everyone] livestreaming rather than your average Dnd player

>>96293895
>I'm using Daggerheart as a crowbar to pry 5e only players off it to try new things that actually suit what they want from a TTRPG
use a tried and true system, if you give them a weird confusing experience you'll only reinforce that 5e is the only system they should try. It happened to a couple of friends with fiasco. Years later they stopped playing ttrpgs without ever trying again anything else.

>>96293666
I know that in hollywood writers can get the rights of an IP back after 30 or 40 years, I don't know if there's any law that applies to Hasbro, but until then if there's an option everything they made for, with, or around Hasbro is Hasbro's

>>96293960
Which is why it kind of pisses me off that such senior d&d writers have shackled themselves to this instead of making something themselves. I get that they want a paycheck and wotc were probably sucking the soul out of them but they could of chosen anything better.

>>96290764
>Critical Role people for people who want to play something like Critical Role
Thank you for admitting this game has nothing to do with being a game and all to do with containing theatre spergs so they can circlejerk their crit role fantasies while leaving the rest of us alone. TTRPGs are finally healing.

never seen anybody mention builds or anything what's some good character builds

>>96293517
>Stop being a pussy and tell them they're being a shithead, only in a more tactful but firm manner. You're not some retail worker who will get strung up for telling a customer no, you're a person playing a hobby game in your free time and get to control who you spend that free time with.
Easy to say, but in a real group you don't call out every little thing someone does that rubs you the wrong way. Otherwise you could easily end up as That Guy yourself. And you don't just drop your group because you have gripes with one guy. Not everything is black and white.

>>96294133

Daggerheart druids are rather strong. Right at level 1, druids have access to six different Beastforms, one of which is Pack Predator for an extra 2 Strength (i.e. possible Strength of +4 at level 1) and advantage on all attacks; it is rather hard for a druid in Pack Predator to miss. Pack Predator can also create Vulnerability on enemies for a Stress, and can deal extra damage when following up on allies' attacks.

More tiers offer more forms, and tier 3 is particularly notable for Legendary Beast and Hybrid Beast, which can supercharge the raw statistics of Pack Predator. Also at tier 3, a druid can multiclass and pick up Bare Bones from the Valor domain, allowing them to further leverage their increased Strength.

The main downside here is that, before multiclassing at tier 3, most Arcana and Sage cards are spells, and are thus barred off in Beastform. This can be mitigated by picking the rare few non-spells (e.g. Gifted Tracker, Nature's Tongue), and by using spells for noncombat utility, for pre-battle preparations, and for post-battle resource management.

If you are willing to wait for tier 3, you can be a guardian, a warrior, or even a seraph who simply multiclasses into druid and picks up Beastform and all of its benefits (including tier 3+ shapes) that way. That is probably even better.

>>96294111
>admitting
>that it was made by the people pressenting it with their audience in mind
I don't know why you felt so persecuted by some product existing. Do you need someone to admit that tampons are made for women?

>>96291175
God, I remember when the OSR community praised Arneson's writing for enforcing world interaction via alternate XP, and nowadays if you give XPs for anything but GP you're a heretic.

>>96294332
/tg/'s osrg is kinda psychotic, xp for carousing is super common in osr outside of purists who want to call the one system they like osr instead of its proper name.

>>96293960
>It’s a TTRPG for people who have no interest in TTRPG

That’s would be D&D 5e, actually. The cards are just a reference tool, much like writing stuff down on a character sheet. I’m not really sure what you mean when you say “story design”. The game didn’t come with any prewritten adventures.

>>96294133
A party of 4-6 halflings. Every session the whole party gets 4-6 hope. Bonus points if you have a Warrior or Rogue in the party who can spend it immediately for an all-day buff

>>96294413

As per the core rulebook, p. 90, PCs have a Hope cap of 6 by default, so this is not as effective as it sounds:
>Your Hope carries over between sessions, but you can only hold a maximum of 6 Hope at a time, so we recommend you look for opportunities to spend it.
PCs start the game with 2 Hope, and they are likely to acquire even more Hope from rolls and from quick rests.

>Bonus points if you have a Warrior or Rogue in the party who can spend it immediately for an all-day buff
The warrior's No Mercy and the rogue's Rogue's Dodge expire even on a quick rest. The latter also expires upon being hit.

>>96256191
this is for sure a machine generated post

>>96294413
>halflings broken again
as they always should be.

>>96294287
is dh druid wild shape only or can you be caster druid like dnd land circle
>>96294413
but then you're all manlets...