Are Adventurer's Guilds an anime trope?
Are you a weeb if you include them in your game?

>>96282807 (OP)
Even if it is a anime trope. It's a good trope that can work in most fantasy worlds.

Basically it's the perfect place for skilled specialists in combat, magic, etc to be hired and safely promote themselves and their party without causing war between nobles and let's them take care of problems that could effect their military if they were to do it as well. (A squad of soldiers taking out a goblin nest near another kingdom's borders might send a false red flag and even start a war. Though sending some guys to take care of a bandit's camp would do little. Especially if the Adventurer guild is set in in both nations. Cheap and/or effective day laborers for nobles and people who can afford it to get shit that their men can't or wouldn't want to do for whatever reason.

Anglos call them Livery Companies.

>>96282836
It's comfy as a trope. I'll give it that.

>>96282807 (OP)
>Are Adventurer's Guilds an anime trope?
Will you be satisfied if I call it a "mercenary agency"?
>Are you a weeb if you include them in your game?
Yes. But it's because I'm a weeb in general, guilds have nothing to do with it.

>>96282853
Oh hey, there's some neat material, thanks!

>>96282807 (OP)
I feel like they are specifically an "anime modelled of video games" trope but in not an isekai historian. I don't remember Lina Inverse joining a bureaucracy though.

>>96282807 (OP)
>Are Adventurer's Guilds an anime trope?
Even if they have been adopted by anime they didn't start with anime. The earliest one I recall seeing called an adventurer's guild is in the original The Bard's Tale where it was the only place you could save your characters. While I'm sure you could make them weeaboo if you wanted, we never made them that way, not that we used them.
Not a big anime fan and I've only seen AG's in anime very rarely, but the very few I remember seeing haven't inherently been all that weeaboo, more like mmo vidya versions of guilds. I don't get why you'd ask if using an AG makes you a weeb, unless there are very weebish examples in the huge amount of anime and manga I'm never going to read or watch or you don't know you can trace AG to non-weeb sources.

The very concept of the adventurer who can do ANYTHING is silly. In reality, adventurers would be separated by specialization: from mercenary, to dungeon delver, to monster hunter, etc.

>>96283229
*Adventurers' Guild

>>96283235
Yeah that's why you need a guild, to outsource your hiring.

>>96283235
Yeah, hints why you have an "guild" for finding those with the skills for said job. As well as other Adventurers to meet with other to make parties for jobs they can't do on their own.

>>96282807 (OP)
If they are an anime trope, it's because they were popularised by Wizardry (a Western game).
I don't think an adventurer's guild is a bad trope for a dungeon-based adventure. They certainly get things up and rolling quickly.

>>96283245

I think a guild where ALL adventurers are centralized is just as silly. I think there would be separated guilds.

If you want a believable fantasy setting, you could even formalize these roles into guilds, orders, or unions, each with certifications, ranks, and rivalries. That would make “adventurer” less of a single job title and more like saying “I work in the trades.”

>>96283372
I see the Adventurers being those who skills and trade are more for the classic fetch quests, escort missions, protection, dungeon diving, monster hunts, bounties, etc. You might need one or two skilled in just one thing or a whole crew and this guild is where they all gather looking for work outside of the more specialized groups and guilds. Especially if they're looking to get their name out there and all.

>>96283372
Adventuring guilds are just fantasy PMCs.

>>96282853
Hunh, I did not know that. This is very useful!

>>96282807 (OP)
They're an MMO trope that became an anime trope

You're not a weeb nesessarily, just someone with awful taste

>>96283385
What kind of world has frequent enough demand for escourt and fetch quests to make it multiple careers with several distinct and seperate formal professional organizations?
Besides, those jobs are called "being a guard" and "being a porter". They're standard professions in a regular economy, you wouldnt hire any kind of adventurer to do those kinds of things.

An adventurer is special by definition- if not by virtue of class levels then by being ON an adventure. Living paycheck to paycheck as a porter is not adventuring. You CAN be a porter who goes on an adventure or an adventurer who is porting, tolkien made good proof of that. But that will never be a career because its high risk, and low risk porting isnt an adventure

Also what kind of weebshit trash has "dungeon diving" as a fucking career

>>96282807 (OP)
>Are Adventurer's Guilds an anime trope?
Not really. It's more of a video game trope going back to the earliest PC games with stuff like Wizardry and Bard's Tale to justify a bunch of no-names getting together to dungeon dive. Anime just adapted it from LitRPG novels inspired by manga inspired by those old computer rpgs. Western tabletops shamelessly copied it too in D&D and Pathfinder with the Clifftop Adventurers' Guild and Pathfinder Society respectively. And in general, it's just a convenient tool for some people to hand-wave where their character got the training/motivation to go out there dungeon exploring.
>Are you a weeb if you include them in your game?
Maybe. Would that be the worst crime, though?

>>96283229
Yeah I'm pretty sure that the notion started in Western media as "Thieves' Guilds" and "Assassins' Guilds," then ttrpgs and video games in the 80s expanded from there as a convenient quest-giver location into guilds for other classes and, eventually or concurrently, Adventurer's Guilds.

>>96283425
This. The only unrealistic thing about adventurers guilds is if there was only one with no rivals. A Wagner to your Blackwater, if you will.

>>96282807 (OP)
>Are Adventurer's Guilds an anime trope?
No. The concept predates most anime of the sort by several years, and it came from western fantasy.
>Are you a weeb if you include them in your game?
These days? Most likely. Anyone who wants their world to be taken seriously these days won't include one, unless they're a weeb.

>>96283830
I'm pretty sure assassin's guild was started in discworld, which parodies the concept of guilds by having a guild for literally everything, including beggars.

>>96283229
I didn't play, but a little research says the Guild of Free Adventurers in Eamon from 1980 is possibly the earliest mention of an adventurers' guild in a computer game. Not saying it popularised them, just that they've been called and treated as general adventurers' guilds and not just thieves' or assassins' guilds for a long time though >>96283830 has a good point that these are probably the forerunners.

Arduin has guilds galore, legally almost everyone has to be a guild member to do work, In Volume VI he created an Adventurer class which of course got its own Adventurers' Guild to go with it, just for the Adventurer class, not for any warriors or thieves or magicians who happen to go adventuring.

>>96284021
Pretty sure Discworld was making fun of D&D and Lankhmar. Discworld is only from the 80s.

>>96283564
I was going off the classic quests people often do and would be reasonable to see on a "quest board." Find and gather herbs in the forest, hunt the wild boars that eating the crops, find and wipe on the goblin nest, capture the bandit outlaw and his crew, escort the rich merchant and his cargo to the next town, ETC

I mean this is less trying to be super realist and more of a good excuse to have a location that hooks outside of just bar, tavern, or inn

>>96284021
Dude, assassins' guilds are way older than Discworld. They're in Gray Mouser and AD&D DMG.

>>96284043
Pratchett would have known about the livery companies already mentioned in this thread. Sure he would have been parodying popular fantasy but with several hundred Discworld guilds he would have been parodying the hundred in actual London history more than the handful appearing in those two sources.

They are a standard part of the Sword World core manual. It is pretty japanese, but it comes from table talk more than anime. In general you have 2 or 3 original anime per year, counting children TV, so nothing besides visual elements is really an "anime" trope.

I think SW, and japanese fciction, could be taking it from the place in Wizardry where you pick up party members.

>>96283920
I should run a game where the PCs are just fantasy Pinkertons.
>the golemancers in the adamantine mine are striking so the duke brought in some necromancers to keep the mine operational, we need you to make sure those mining golems aren't used to disrupt the mining operation while negotiations continue

>>96282807 (OP)
>Are Adventurer's Guilds an anime trope?
More of an old RPG trope that RPG-inspired anime (particularly churned out trend-chasing isekai shit) started overusing
>Are you a weeb if you include them in your game?
No. If you feel insecure about it, just give it a different name so the autists don't get on your back about the use of the term "adventurer". Maybe call it a Freelancer's Hall or some such.

>>96283425
>>96283920
>Fantasy PMCs
That is the best description I've heard yet, Especially the concept of professional rivalries.
>Wagner v Blackwater
Different companies from different countries with different capabilities and ideologies all competing for contracts and bids across (setting).

Of course they're going to have to be strong enough to handle their jobs, But not too large to be seen as a threat to other sovereign states, where they already have means to handle their (fantasy problem)

On the topic of generalized vs specialist, I say generalists. Better to be able to adapt and improvise if things go sideways.
For some reason If the local company doesn't have the guy you need they might be able to call around to find one.

>>96284266
>If you feel insecure about it
Change.

Fuck feeling bad about the game you wanna run.

>>96283920
This is one good thing Korean reverse-isekai/portalslop did. Many rival guilds vying for premium farming spots and best government-issued quests, poaching adventurers and generally backstabbing each other to just before the point where it gets noticeable and get your guild in shit.

>>96284300
I've seen my fair share of some isekai and shoelace setting fantasies do the same with just how ruthless not only adventuring parties but guilds in general get in holding onto merchant contracts and with the kingdoms they're based out of. I know it's usually just to make sure that whatever new guild/party the main character join looks much better and humane, but it's still funny to see just how much red tape and legwork the writers will acknowledge goes into running a guild despite the stories being bland self-insert fantasies 90% of the time.

>>96282807 (OP)
I'm not reading the thread because I don't give a fuck, but here's my invaluable two cents.

Adventuring Guilds are dumb. They're fun and pulpy dumb, but they're still dumb. Organized expeditions into uncharted ruins, regions and realms should be funded by a wealthy patron - a noble or a merchant or what is very obviously a dragon in disguise. This gives the GM a singular "tentpole" NPC to work with, and for the PCs to report to. Easier for the GM, more fun for the players. This is of course you're writing a story where the Players explicitly get work to dungeon delve, as most (good) stories begin with the PCs being normal people getting tossed into extraordinary situations. Zero to Hero.

That said, Adventuring Guilds are *fine.* They're dumb, but fine. I'm not going to discount them because I'm not a tired old grog. They have their place in games where the GM just wants to have an excuse to put on a funny voice for goblins. They're fine when you want to try out builds, or roleplay among each other, or fish for "funny" situations that you can joke about later. Simply put, Adventuring Guilds are fine when "game night" is more "I'm with my buddies, laughing" than "I'm with my buddies, exploring a world." For that purpose, Adventuring Guilds are great because they take the great big bulk of session-building and remove it. You don't need to explain why your PCs are in the dungeon beyond, "we were paid to do so."

>>96284411
>not reading the thread because I don't give a fuck
tl;dr because I don't give a fuck

>>96282807 (OP)
If adventurers were a real thing and there was money to be made from adventuring, it stands to reason some sort of bureaucracy would spring up to regulate it.

>>96284534
Absolutely. "Well sure you defeated the Beholder in the Ancient Tower of Doom! But I'm the king and that's wealth you're extracting from my lands." That mofugga is gonna want a cut.

>>96282807 (OP)
>Are Adventurer's Guilds an anime trope?

They existed before anime. Quest for Glory I (1989) had one, and I doubt that's the earliest example.
Also, anyone who avoids story elements just because they're "anime" is a gay fat retard.

>>96284411
Didn't read past the first paragraph, just here to say
> Frog poster
> Faggot opinion (first paragraph)

>>96282807 (OP)
Is the Elder Scrolls weebshit?

>>96284870
Yes. Nerd.

>>96282807 (OP)
Makes more sense than the network of unrelated taverns where quest givers sit in dark corners waiting for adventurers to come stumbling in.

>>96282807 (OP)
They're a convenient way to get players together, hire npcs, pick up quests, and so on. It's worth being called a weeb on the internet to make your game better

>>96284360
>shoelace setting
the what now?

>>96285586
Anime fandom term for stories that focus on adventurers who were kicked out of their parties or guilds, but discover a heretofore unknown talent or superpower that lets them become a wild success once they strike out on their own. Occasionally tends to be paired with the sub-plot of the former party meeting a very harsh and dizzying downfall that outright destroys some if not all of them for their hubris. They tend to be lumped in with generic fantasy isekai works due to sharing a lot of the more LitRPG cliches like codified magic/skills, adventurer guilds, language that use irl rpg terms as part of general lingo, etc.

>>96282807 (OP)
In trying to avoid an anime-style Adventurer's Guild, I've been developing a table for each Specialist (Thief replacement) that represents available jobs through their network. Some, much, of that is through professional guilds and other connections. Fighters and other classes can get similar connections but it's one of the strengths of Specialists.
On top of that, there is a worldwide Lyceum of Gentleman Adventurers (AKA the Liar's Club) that is a formal gathering place for all these types to go and earn social points.

>>96284084
Again, i question their validity as classic quests. What ttrpg game or module has ever sent the players to kill 20 boars or gather 30 magic herbs? Its an anime trope based on MMO quests designed as a flimsy pretence to occupy people's time for a while and make a number go up. None of it is classic to this medium

>>96284411
Was there supposed to be an explanation for why they're "dumb" in there somewhere?

>>96282807 (OP)
What other fantasy tropes are considered "anime tropes" that you don't really see in Western works?

>>96286368
Treating stats, levels, abilities, and other RPG mechanics as in-universe things everybody knows about.

>>96283235
Honestly, Goblin Slayer kind of pisses me off. Weapons do not dull THAT fast. It would have to be a complete piece of shit wallhanger made of sheet metal. I get the whole disposable weapon and pick up enemy weapons thing is supposed to give him his own cool yet pragmatic vibe, but it's just painful.

It's perfectly reasonable given guilds were how many things were organized before a certain point in history. Even candlemakers may have their local candlemaker guild. For a fantasy setting, you just need it acknowledged having a guild for an occupation is common. Why wouldn't mercenaries have a guild that ensures the reputation of their own work? Otherwise, you're hiring anyone who happens by and hope they aren't just bandits or murderers. Only truly desperate people will hire some random swordsman and risk they vanish with the money or rob you for more. Mercenary bands known well by their name literally existed.

The rest is just a matter of LABELING. Don't like calling it an adventuer's guild? Name it literally anything else, then.

>>96285700
But why shoelace? Lighter than bootstraps?

>>96287440
Based on an exaggerated copypasta where the MC is the only person with any competence in the planet, to the point his old party that kicked him out falls apart cause they’re too incompetent to so much as tie their shoelaces without MC-kun to hold their hands the whole time.

>>96282807 (OP)
No, it's not an anime trope, you goof. They were copying other fantasy concepts that already existed. Japanese anime with fantasy themes like this borrow from Japanese RPGs, which borrow from western TTRPGs, which borrow from fantasy literature like Tolkien where people of various skills gather together to travel and fight for a cause.

tl;dr Japan got it from TTRPGs, and it became a cliche in their media due to how ideas spread between cultures.

>>96282853
Spbp

>>96285700
you mean zama?
there is a narou tag for this, making up some new word is like that retarded "native isekai" for just fantasy

>>96286407
He chooses bad weapons because they are cheap, and he steals from the monsters he hunts.
He does it because he is not interested in taking care of his equipment, he spends all his time throwing away his weapons.

>>96286139
nta but I guess because they are not realistic

>>96286394
But that happens when it's a video game or the protagonist has the ability to see that (because he's from another world).

>>96287639
First time I’ve heard of that tag, but if that’s what it means then I’ll use that in the future, thank you

>>96287639
>native isekai for just fantasy
fun fact, the /tg/ trolls created this term.

>>96287801
Native isekai sounds like a passive aggressive euphemism for calling something derivative.

>>96283920
That's what 90% of the Fairy Tail arcs are about, the creator of this stupid concept.

>>96287820
Yes, that term is exactly that.

>>96287801
I doubt it, 4chan always takes credits for things that came from other places.
But it's an infuriating term because people use it to describe Narou adaptations, which already has the term naroukei, but they refuse to even check how the common element is that they came from a site that forces certain things.
It's like someone creating an elaborated theory to connect 6 shows and they will not aknowledge that it's 6 CW shows.
Yeah, they are similar, there's a very realistic and clear reasson for that you could check instead of making up shit.

>>96287696
It's just part of a sentence that translates as "serves you right", so a lot of those web novels have it in the title to inform you it's one of those. Japanese long titles are just a collection of tags.

>>96288027
nah, I was there when it happened.

>>96282807 (OP)
They're a Wizardry trope, and Wizardry is the root of all western-themed fantasy anime. Also, as noted by >>96282853, they have a real world counterpart.

>>96287831
and it outs you as the worst kind of faggot. Use LitRPG or gameworld fantasy for the genres.

>>96283564
>What kind of world has frequent enough demand for escourt and fetch quests to make it multiple careers with several distinct and seperate formal professional organizations?
Worlds filled with a wide variety of monsters, ancient ruins, magic curses, and other stuff that makes projecting power beyond city limits a tenuous affair.

>>96288055
Bro, I never used this term. Calm down, there's no need to be aggressive.

>>96288049
There's also Hello Work, which is the state part time hiring system. You see it a lot now, for example in Yakuza Like A Dragon, but it's been a thing since the 50's. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hello_Work
For 70 years a japanese person without a job would go to this building, register, and get work hoping to get permanently hired. It's how part time work functions for 3 generations.

>>96288032
>Japanese long titles are just a collection of tags.
Truly, their title technology is far in advance of our own.

>>96282807 (OP)
Whenever I see the word guild in a game a petal falls from the rose in my heart
I don't care where it's from just please keep this bureaucratic garbage out of my fantasy game. If I buy a house in the game I don't want to register it with the HOA either.

>>96282807 (OP)
I'm really autistic about Adventurer Guilds and I dislike how they work in a lot of anime and manga

I am of the belief that the only way that they work is if the setting is some kind of region with untameable wildlands (this can be any kind of wilderness biome) dotted with fortified settlements and "safe" areas. This would explain why there would be a need for a relatively centralized authority that controls what is essentially a mercenary company, post office, bounty hunting agency, pest control services, and miscellaneous job board all rolled into one. There should be some in world reason why the different trades did not start their own guilds despite the constant demand for their services.

Overall, I like them since it is a convenient, though videogamey, way to send players out on missions and discover leads

>>96288131
YOU VILL PAY ZE GUILD FEE
YOU VILL HUNT ZE GIANT RATS
YOU VILL GO ON ESCORT MISSIONS
YOU VILL DELIVER MAIL
YOU VILL CEDE HIGHER PAYING JOBS TO HIGHER RANKING ADVENTURERS

UND YOU VILL BE HAPPY

>>96288173
Anime fantasy tends to be a very (to use 4E jargon) Points of Light. There is a highly civilized central kingdom, but the day you get more than a week's travel out you're dealing with untamed wildlands where the only thing keeping monsters off the roads is heavy patrols.

>>96286139
NTA. But Adventure Guilds aren't dumb, they're straight up dogshit. Proof: every single low-quality pre-fabricated isekai trash has it. Why? Because is easy, lazy and stupid. Adventure Guilds are made by retards who don't know anything about fantasy or RPGs. And they're taken from MMOs.

>>96282807 (OP)
Probably the least interesting way to give your players a handler.

>>96288284
That's because all isekai are parodies of MMOs and video games.

>>96288296
And what would be the most interesting way? Genuine question.

>>96288284
Okay, but what's actually bad about the concept itself? Cause all it sounds like so far is that it's bad because low-quality works use them, not cause there's something visibly flawed and detrimental within the concept itself.

>>96288284
low-quality pre-fabricated isekai trash has a lot of basic fantasy elements lazily implemented. Are we just dismissing all concepts associated with jap self-insert shit? Or judging ideas on their own merit?

>>96288284
NTA. But elves aren't dumb, they're straight up dogshit. Proof: every single low-quality pre-fabricated isekai trash has them. Why? Because is easy, lazy and stupid. Elves are made by retards who don't know anything about fantasy or RPGs. And they're taken from MMOs.

>>96288325
I once made one for Mothership following the tables in Hull Breach. He was a corpo middle man who though looking like a cringe millenial was vintage and a show of his wealth, he always had a different "secretary" he sexually harassed. All those girls were conspiring to kill him and steal his money. The players were willing to help for a small cut, pretty much covering the operation costs was more than enough, but that group kinda disbanded.

>>96288356
If you know how to write you can turn even dogshit concepts cool. However, if you're trying to make something good you should try to work with concepts that provide an interesting framework. Or you're going to spend too much time trying to fix some piece of shit. Most RPGs are supposed to take place in Medieval, Early Modern or 19th to 20th century times. But Adventure Guilds never existed there, they only exist in artificial shit like MMOs. When you're constructing your world/game/story whatever, you will be treating with an artificial shit concept who has no equivalent. How are you going to improve that? The amount of work would be insane to make it work, unless you just copy-paste stuff like isekai garbage does. Good fantasy books, videogames and RPGs don't use them for a reason.

There are equivalents in the real world and fictional world. Those require a bit more of work but they will pay off to you as your worlds becomes more real and players notice you're not just another lazy bum. Examples: Witcher Schools from The Witcher have different techniques and philosophies. Guilds in the Elder Scrolls are specialized (mages, assassins, thieves, bards). In the real world you have occult societies like the Rosicrucians, Freemasons, Illuminati. You have knightly orders like Templars or Teutons, Santiago Knighs. You have normal ass guilds, syndicates, detectives. You also have societies such as the Institut de France, who did wild shit like discovering the Rosetta Stone from Egypt and went in expeditions. Finally you have guys like Conquistadors and Explorers, who were part of the Consejo de Indias, or the British and Dutch Indian Company. Literally the original adventurers. You have many options and don't need to stick to some shitty overplayed concept.

>>96288425
yeah ok but elves weren't invented by mmos

>>96288501
Honestly man, even though I do agree that adventure guilds are a writing crutch for adventure based settings, that still isn’t saying pointing to anything wrong with the concept, it’s just a roundabout way of providing other examples of guilds someone could use instead. Unless that’s the criticism, that it’s a matter of personal taste?

>>96288501
>>96288284
You're doing a lot of talking in circles, but not actually making a point.

>>96288507
Neither were adventurer guilds. They were invented by D&D nerds in the 1970s and are based on multiple real world counterparts.

>>96288555
>and are based on multiple real world counterparts.
Like?

>Tolkien wrote about one group who quit their day jobs to save the world
>ttrpgs are made based on this story
>world builders feel the urge to explain why there are 100,000 adventurers who aren't working day jobs
>come up with guilds, so "adventuring" is a dayjob now
It feels... unfinished. Mercenary groups and crime syndicates are already a thing, if you really want to make this a legitimate day job. You could also just explain that "adventurer" isn't a normal day job, it's something someone has to do when the world is gonna blow up. I feel like it comes from the MMO branch of the rpg family. Adventurers guilds give of "Gather 10 Dire Boar Asses" energy. I'm not inherently against it, but I don't think I've ever seen it done well.

>>96288586
Liveries and Hello Work

>>96288588
It comes from Wizardry having a place to find characters to go down the dungeon, from there it went to Sword World, and from there to MMOs.

>>96288599
Liveries were guilds centered on merchant's work and didn't resemble adventurer's guilds in any way beyond being called guilds.
>Hello Work
I kek'd

>>96288607
There's also just the general work houses of eastern Europe. Tho none of that really matters since they weren't invented by MMOs. MMOs got them from Wizardry which was a direct adaptation of Rob Woodhead and Andy Greenberg's home D&D games.

>>96288607
>>Hello Work
>I kek'd
Hello work is as old in Japan as the nuclear family is in the US. The idea that if you want a job you go to the job building and they hook you up for a gig, first come first served, until you find a steady job sounds as natural for a japanese person as suburb house with a wife, 2.5 kids, a dog, and a picket fence for an american.

>>96288621
>There's also just the general work houses of eastern Europe.
These also had nothing in common with adventurer's guild. You went there if you were impoverished to do basic manual labor, most of it not even a hundred yards from the workhouse itself.
What's next, being employed is the same as being an adventur-
>>96288627
Said it before I could finish my post.

>>96288501
The idea of an Adventurer's' guild is basically a hub for (murder) hobos to find day jobs to pay for their room and board and/or get funds for traveling and equipment. You don't need to have be the "anime troupe" people push it as. Even though it been around since before anime was doing it. It best as a hey want to save some time setting up hooks for your players in town for their next adventure. Just go to the quest board and let them pick the next quest.

>>96288631
>What's next, being employed is the same as being an adventur-
yeah, that's what adventuring guilds are, odd jobs. They are meant to be used to find big quest but also random shit in town where the GM seeds NPCs.
They don't look like a guild of adventurers to you beause they are not made on the platonic idea of a guild of professional adventurers, they are based on japanese work culture and it sounds rational for them because they have 70 years of that culture.

>>96288641
>yeah, that's what adventuring guilds are, odd jobs
"Adventuring guilds are for doing laundry and sweeping floors, not guild work or adventuring" is a funny idea to entertain for ten seconds, but pretty boring past that. Do you have any better ideas?

>>96288643
I'm not bringing my ideas here, I'm telling you how they work. I'm gonna assume you have no clue about this, have never played a game that comes with a pre packaged one, and are imagining what a world where people used them could be like to get mad at it.

>>96288672
So, no, you have no better or interesting ideas. Alrighty then.

>>96288237
I see what your saying but most anime don't explain why there aren't other guilds like the mailman guild or why the mercenary/bodyguard guild is the same as the monster hunter guild or guild of healers.

Also, why aren't more adventurer's guilds also banks?

Anyways I try not to think too hard about it when watching or reading a story

>>96288747
>Also, why aren't more adventurer's guilds also banks?
this is extremely common, whenever a character doesn't have a way to transport things that version of the guild has a bank system.
And merchant guilds are in every merchant themed fantasy anime, just like medicine and blacksmith guilds are part of anime with those things as a theme. You're just complaining that some extra distilled version of cheap amateur web novels doesn't explore minor elements that don't affect the plot.

>>96288747
Most have little or no internal logic anywhere or for anything.
However, in the few examples I've seen where they did, Adventurer Guilds usually exist to try and concentrate, cultivate, and control the power of exceptional individuals, essentially acting as a liaison between the government and the adventurers while getting their funding by solving problems that require violence in some form or another.
Basically, they're more formalized and smaller scale mercenary companies.

>>96288747
They don't need to explain something so fucking common place to their target audience. It's no different than if you need to know why roads are paved, it means you're not the target audience for stories set in America.
>Banks
Often times, yes. Or at least contracted with one the just like Hello Work and Work Houses.
>>96288631
A place for unemployed people to hang out and take, sometimes legally or morally dubious, odd jobs for the locals. Processed by a clerk who takes a cut, and is usually paying some sort of tax to the local liege.
If you can't see how a work house or hello work isn't just an adventurer's guild in a world where chimeras don't exist, you're too fucking stupid to share my air.

>>96288802
>(((Adventurers)))
>disproportionately high influence over local and inter-kingdom politics
>lords it over and patronizes the local "commoners"
>Less than 1% of the population yet controls more than 50% of the kingdom's wealth
>Goes off fighting mysterious monsters that totally exist for massive rewards from the royalty and nobility, don't question the Town crier, peasant.
>high intermarriage rate with the aristocratic class
>make every conflict about themselves
>uses their financial, physical, and social powers to enforce their esoteric agenda on the common folk
>treats non-adventurers like cattle or disposable fodder
What do gamers mean by this?

>>96288840
yes, adventurer guilds are a stand in for Sylicon Valley. Elon is our equivalent to an S ranked adventurer sitting with the monarchs, indian call centers are the equivalent of picking up herbs.

>>96288747
>Muh adventurer guilds must function as medieval mega corporations because... t-they just have to okay! Shut up!
It's funny how quickly your idea of adventurers guilds just devolves into bureaucracy that the player's will want to fight against because it limits their freedom in exchange for convenience

>>96288802
>>96288819
>>96288839
Now I want a post apocalyptic america where the "Highway Society" functions as the adventurers guild and maintains the highways after the fall of the us govt

>>96288862
>your idea
anon, adventurer guilds were not invented by people itt. We're discussing something that already exists, not proposing that it should exist or how.

>>96288840
Have you ever read the Protocols of the Heroes of Swordcoast?

>>96288839
>A place for unemployed people to hang out and take, sometimes legally or morally dubious, odd jobs for the locals
Could be cool. These weren't what work houses and hello work were, not even close, but the idea of an Adventurer's guild effectively becoming a stationary mercenary company could be cool.

You'd need a really densely populated area to support it, though. One thing that rubs me the wrong way with many portrayals of guilds is that Adventurers are given total freedom of movement and the guilds themselves often sprawl too far. It's a very anachronistic level of bureaucracy, that would only even be functional with the help of magic.

Much more realistic would be to have guilds be highly individualized with some correspondence and known territories. The Guild of Lundham doesn't take requests from the village of Aldwort, that's the turf of a different guild.

>>96288897
>Much more realistic would be to have guilds be highly individualized with some correspondence and known territories. The Guild of Lundham doesn't take requests from the village of Aldwort, that's the turf of a different guild.

In several series I've read, towns are the smallest local with an adventurer's guild with a bunch of villages with the town guild's territory. These town guilds are mostly independent but subordinate to a regional guild based out of a large city which is then subordinate to a guild headquarters based out of a royal capital. The adventurers are implied to mostly stick to their home guild unless they are escorting merchants between towns, there is a major mobilization or a seasonal factor.

Part of what makes this organization easy to miss is that MCs and their parties have a tendency to speed run the ranks and various guild staff are pushing the MC party to move up to "bigger and better things."

>>96289255
I've anecdotally read series where the guilds operate more like stand-ins for companies where they're entirely localized and working independently from one another, and part of the reason the staff is so pushy to MC-kun and the other adventurers to get better is so they're capable of responding to calls to cull stronger monsters and raid far more government-restricted dungeons, which are basically like taking on far bigger government contracts with each other. Making a lot of guilds get insanely ruthless and downright criminal both in their own organizations and to other ones as they'll outright have their own adventurers trying to get competitors killed in dungeons or effectively rob them of their earned loot to cash in themselves. And that's not taking into account those stories where good enough adventuring parties are outright PMCs in that they govern themselves, no guild oversight at all, and basically do as they please so long as they don't overstep the law and remember to pay their taxes.

And that's not even taking into account the trope of the royal family/church backed "Hero Party" who are officially endorsed to be their chosen champions, or those series where the kingdom is wealthy enough to afford a standing army that repeatedly butts heads with or antagonizes the adventuring guilds regarding jurisdiction over particular monster hunts and dungeon raids.

>>96282853
those are basically like any other guild you would expect, think specialized workers with regulated standards. the livery companies merely affiliated themselves with local reserves or military but not in the sense that they sent out their own people for anything besides their "worshipful profession"

I guess the closest analog for an adventurers guild were the bounty hunters of the wild west though it stretches the concept a bit

>>96290042
>I guess the closest analog for an adventurers guild were the bounty hunters of the wild west though it stretches the concept a bit

The Beaver/Fur Trapping companies come to mind as closer.

>>96288891
Oh you mean Dialogues In Avernus?

>>96290056
true, didn't think about those. thinking about it, the east india trading company had levymen that charted the jungles for the railways doing some odd jobs for local authorities on the side

>>96288539
When you're creating something you want to use the best materials for the result to be good. As in you're making a shoe you want the best leather. Same applies to a story. Why would you use a low quality concept like adventurers guild? Why not something better? That's why I'm trying to say.

>>96290981
You aren't specifying what makes it low quality is my point. Cause I could frankly think of several reasons not to use an adventurer's guild personally, but I'm more interested in what YOU have to say on the subject, anon, on the off chance it introduces me to a mode of thought I hadn't considered. "Low-quality" doesn't mean jack. Human Male Fighter is considered a "low quality" concept by a lot of people, but people still use it. Same with "religion based vaguely off of a general vague blend of different Christian faiths" or "vaguely tribalistic mongolian orc warband". Saying they suck or are low effort is one thing, explaining why they suck is another.

>>96290981
well, please give a better alternative then. don't be like greta demanding things without delivering options

>>96291000
I already said it. They're lazy and never existed, so they will make you work two or more times as harder to make them believable. They don't have any specialization and are just a catch-all term for the snowflake isekai protagonist to receive rewards without any effort. A world like that is not believable, is dumb. In real life even institutions who dedicate themselves to the same job have different agencies for it, like the CIA, FBI, NSA are all technically intelligence agencies but they fullfil different roles.

>>96291095
the post above has a list of alternative

>>96291298
>they will make you work two or more times as harder to make them believable
Doesn't sound like a a bad quality.

>They don't have any specialization
Doesn't sound that bad either. Teamsters exist irl, after all.

>snowflake isekai protagonist to receive rewards without any effort
That's closer to an actual issue, as I do feel a lot of stories do gloss over a number of important details that goes into the adventuring lifestyle under the banner of "the guild just takes care of it", but that is what guilds are supposed to exist for to an extent. And that still feels more a condemnation of the pseudo-genre than of the concept itself.

>A world like that is not believable, is dumb
That seems more of a matter of opinion, honestly.

Frankly, kinda disappointed that's all you came up with, but at least you tried.

>>96282807 (OP)
>Are Adventurer's Guilds a trope?

This fucking thread again?

For the millionth time....NO!

Look, here's how it works; For a very very long time there have been clubs and organizations where real world mercenaries (no not just soldiers...people willing to contract their services for money) would group together and agree on going rates for labor. This was up into even the 20th century. The Age of discovery 1418-1620 was particularly well known for this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Discovery

People with money or investors would hire whole crews, ships, and staff to work for them to do adventury stuff. These were run formally and had established rates and skill reqs.There were famous examples of this,like the Varangian Guard, the Condottieri, hell the swiss guard who still protect the Vatican to this day, and informal hire at need agent run groups or social sites bars, clubs fellowships etc. Why do you think actors have agents and their cut is formalized in contracts? That stuff started long long before actors, and whole work sectors had agents .All of these started as parties of men, who worked for agents who negotiated contracts and standards of pay.

The thing is, you need to start by clearing all the modern day shit out of your head and start with the idea that this is about how people operated pre-bureaucratic modern era. They had word of mouth and networks of people. If you had work you couldnt do you went to someone who could put you in touch with someone who you could hire to do it. Those people had their reps on the line to choose reliable workers. Over time those people form connected networks of specialized skill groups. All based on rep, need, reliability, trust and community. Kinda like angies list. Just because it doesnt fit with modern day thought, it doesnt mean it didn't exist

>>96291399
Something taking as twice the effort to make good without any actual paid-off is bad quality. Again if you're a shoemaker you go for good leather, you don't go for shit leather and spent 12 hours working on it and say is good.

>>96291765
That sounds like more of a you problem then, since you're the one who apparently dismisses ideas based on the lowest common denominator rather than looking for good examples to steal from. Again, I'm not a big fan of adventuring guilds, but they do serve a purpose in some stories and games, and poo-pooing that cause you personally can't think of what to do with it really shows how shallow minded you are.

>>96284491
And so, not a single fuck was given. The end.

>>96291614
This.
Really needs to become copypaste.

>>96284411
>I'm not reading the thread because I don't give a fuck
>Adventuring Guilds are dumb.

lets not even discuss that adventuring guilds actually existed

Look up age of discovery. look up National geographics origin. Look up explorers.org and the exploers club founded in 1904. But long before that there have been explorers who had to hire people to do work for them, Map makers , surveyors, guards, excavators, translators, guides, etc. Those people don't just grow on trees. But they do form social networks that have agents negotiate work contracts for hem.

>>96292340
>This.
>Really needs to become copypaste.
Thanks

I keep seeing this shit over and over about how things that actually existed don't make sense today so they couldnt possibly exist.

Seriously, people need to learn that the world existed before the 21st and 20th centuries.

Not sure about the literary history of adventurers' guilds, but thieves' guilds are as old as Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser. 1970 in Ill Met in Lankhmar IIRC, just fifteen years after LOTR was published. Hardly anime or weeb, even if Leiber came out with the best monstergirl in the history of fantasy.

(if anything, anime-style "bulletin quest" if univentive is waaaaaay less obtrusive than OG fantasy guilds)

>>96292775
>(if anything, anime-style "bulletin quest" if univentive is waaaaaay less obtrusive than OG fantasy guilds)

Even many of those "guilds" have a basis in history. Gladiator Schools in Rome were basically Fighter's Guilds and modern European Universities were mostly founded as places to learn and teach the "arcane" sciences of math, natural history and alchemy.

>>96293154

Not really in the usual anime sense (which is basically acting like a middleman between people with problems solved with swords/magic and gett people with swords/magic resolve them)

>>96291795
No. I gave real examples of why adventurers guild are rancid dogshit. All the stories that use them are low quality garbage. You are fixated on defending it despite being devoid of good examples. Weird shit bro.

>>96293840
Genetic fallacy, man. We know bad isekai stories are bad. That doesn’t address what is specifically bad about adventurer guilds as either a story writing tool or as a cinder, that’s just stating “bad/lazily written isekai stories have them therefore they must also be bad”

>>96293840
>>96293840
>No. I gave real examples of why adventurers guild are rancid dogshit. All the stories that use them are low quality garbage

Not the anon you're arguing with, but dude, explorers, adventurers, merchants, mercenaries have all had clubs and guilds for fucking ever, until you hit the later half of the 20th century. Case in point, the National geographic magazine.

It was established as a non-profit organization, the National Geographic Society, by a group of explorers, scientists, and scholars with the mission to increase and disseminate geographic knowledge.

That was 1888. Before that they were a fellowship of people all over the world. No telephones (itd only just been invented 1876), no internet, but still working together as a guild, club, what have you. They explored, shared drawings, maps, info,got funding, organized jobs. And they were preceeded by other explorers and adventurers who wen places, found trade and merchant routes, paved the way for colonization of far off lands. They got paid for going places and doing things. Fuck, letters of Marque let adveturers raid enemy shipping and conduct warfare. How do you think those fleets of marqued ships operated, their captains had guilds as well. So get down off your opinionated and historically ill versed horse and realize this shit existed in real life for hundred if not thousands of years. Sure the weebs took it too far and made it too formalized but weebs gonna weeb. But it doesnt change that theres historical evidence out there that guilds of adventurers did exist

>>96293893
Screeching "fallacy fallacy" does not an argument make, especially when it's an invalid fallacy.

>>96283079
She would definitely have been thrown out of any guild she joined. That bitch blows up way too much shit and steals anything not nailed down. Nobody would be dumb enough to say she represents their organization because of the gigantic liability it would be.

>>96294124
Neither does "isekai is shit therefore adventurer guilds are the ick"

>>96294183
Do you taste test every piece of shit you see to make sure it isn't chocolate?

>>96294199
Considering you have yet to refute the point properly, I'll take this as an admission of defeat

>>96294222
Ok shit eater lol

These threads are always tedious because 50% of it is just people getting hung up on the technicalities of the terms "adventurer" and "guild"

>>96282807 (OP)
>Are Adventurer's Guilds an anime trope?
Technically, Adventurer's Guilds, as they're often presented, are a game trope that's been heavily adopted by many anime.

>Are you a weeb if you include them in your game?
No. They existed in ttrpg before they were adopted into anime.
I believe they were first in ttrpg, then vidya, then jrpg, then anime.

>>96284411
>Adventuring Guilds are *fine.* They're dumb, but fine.
Correct.

>>96286139
>Was there supposed to be an explanation for why they're "dumb" in there somewhere?
Largely because it offers "adventurer" as a profession when "adventurer" isn't a profession.
>>96292611
>Map makers , surveyors, guards, excavators, translators, guides
These are professions. Mercenary is a profession. One could argue that an explorer is a profession but they don't bear much similarity to the activity of adventurers guilds.

Guilds are often presented as a gamified method of giving jobs to PCs. Which is fine. But dumb.

It's lazy world building, like accepting that if people got super powers they'd put on costumes and fight in the streets but never get shot in the face.
Fine, but dumb.

>>96300324
>It's lazy world building, like accepting that if people got super powers they'd put on costumes and fight in the streets but never get shot in the face.
Aiming for center mass is a lot more accurate when it comes to firearms, and enough bulletproof supers are out there that headshots involving regular slug throwers inevitably fall out of fashion

>>96300353
>Aiming for center mass is a lot more accurate when it comes to firearms, and enough bulletproof supers are out there that headshots involving regular slug throwers inevitably fall out of fashion
That's bullshit.
But setting that aside, unless all supers are bulletproof, why would any super risk getting shot in the face based on the idea that it's unfashionable. So is wearing white socks with sandals but people do it. DVDs still exist for sale.

I have a set of questions I had for super characters and one of them is "Why doesn't anyone just shoot you in the face?"
Good characters actually have an answer that isn't handwavium.

>>96300393
I think the other two unique questions were "Why do you wear what you wear?"
And "How do you find crime/missions?"

>>96300393
>That's bullshit
No, really, that's a thing. People with firearms training really are taught to aim primarily for the center mass where not only is the target much bigger but also where there's far more organs to hit like the heart and the lungs. I know it's weird with how much games like CoD make shooting for the head seem like the norm, but it's true.

>>96282807 (OP)
>Are Adventurer's Guilds an anime trope?
Yes

>Are you a weeb if you include them in your game?
Probably. Shit's pretty ass so I don't see why you'd put them in unless your favourite isekai has them.

>>96286407
Goblin blood was mentioned to be highly corrosive and sticky (not to mention smelly), making sharp weapons dull pretty fast unless constantly maintained after every kill.
I don't remember if it was mentioned anywhere why the guy does not just primarily use bludgeoning weapons in that case though.

>>96282807 (OP)
So long as it's literally a guild comissioned to go on adventures like Columbus, it's fine. When you're mashing together the fighter's guild, thieves' guild, clergy, and secretive warlocks into a single block because you can't be arsed to flesh out individual organizations, in a way that would be at mutually at odds with the respective component parts' goals on close scrutiny, that is when I cry foul.

I find that what people can't get is that most of the times the problems they see with AGs is actually problems with adventurers per se.

>>96300596
Wouldn't adventurer's guild be sort of temporary employment agency for the members of those other guilds, for when they need some extra dosh from jobs that are not strictly speaking sanctioned by those guilds?

>>96288588
>>96288603
This is an interesting pipeline to think about.

What was wrong with random losers deciding to try their hand at fixing what others can't? I wonder if it's terminal MMO brain poisoning. Where yeah you share that same theme with 1000s of other people at all times. You're no longer the one group of weirdos doing your besht to solve a problem with whatever skills you have. I wonder if this has also led to everything needing to be a bit "extra". Since now being brave enough to leave safety and swing a sword isn't enough to mark you as strange.

I think I understand all those people who want fighters not to be magic a bit better now.

>>96282807 (OP)
In a world with much more dangerous monsters it makes perfect sense for there to be some kind of organization dedicated to hunting them down to keep people safe that isn't the regular army.

Probably wouldn't be called the Adventurer's Guild, but the idea is sound.

>>96300617
I like to think part of it's mainly because they're also unknowingly complaining about the nature of the mediums that a lot of adventurer guilds see popular usage in, like video games and light novels, and how the worlds feel artificially constructed for the main character/player's convenience. Stuff like how the guilds specifically handle finding clients on behalf of the adventurers, handle major payments with the banks/merchants, handle board and room for their members, handle all the weapon maintenance and replacement, etc. And in a way, doy, that's the point, this is specifically the main character's story, of course what we see of the guild is the main character/player focusing on just getting what they want from the guild. But with a number of stories that just present them as barebones/minimalist as possible, it does tend to feel as though these guilds are less of an actual organization the people of narrative importance are part of and more like just an extension of those people of narrative importance.

But then again, the only real way to counteract that is to basically take focus away from the people whose stories we're following to have chapters and segments where the guilds are operating as they normally would, to give the world back a sense of independence separate from the main character, and not everyone is going to care for something like that. Some people bitch about stories that take away from the main action as it is, let alone any exposition that isn't immediately relevant to the story at hand.

>>96300514
>Goblin blood was mentioned to be highly corrosive and sticky
Genuinely don't remember that part, but that would at least be a reason. Even if a bad one.

>>96287463
reminds me of the manga where the MC gets back at his old party by fucking their moms

>>96300744
After buying one sold into slavery and banging one of them in front of the dad

>>96300393
>DVDs still exist for sale.
yo don't call me out like that, it's a perfectly acceptable format

>>96300753
yeah could've gone without fucking the hottest one in front of her current husband to prove how much he loves her

>>96300714

Meh, I just think that if you accept the "adventureres exist in big numbers" premise the guild as bullettin board for quests/middleman for quest givers idea makes sense. Perhaps not so original, but not anymore so than elves or dnd-style pantheons.
You are right that it simplifies things and you could "unsimplify" things for interesting gameplay, at least in TTRPGS where the players may want that, but... it's not even that: I mean that from a WB perspictive adventurer guilds make sense with well, adventurers.

The problem to me is that dnd/vidya adventurers and "quests" per se aren't well, particulary realistic.

>>96300744
>>96300753
what was the name? I used to read it in comick but now they don't show nsfw updates in the front page so I fell off.

>>96300862
Yeah, it's one of those things that you kind of have to just accept on its face unless you want to give yourself a lot of extra work for a detail that not many people are going to care about. The funny thing is that I've seen a lot of isekai and fantasy works pointing out in their own ways how silly a lot of elements that people take for granted are from adventurer guilds, like how one story had a guy bring in so many monster parts for those "collect [x] herbs/monster parts" stories that the guild couldn't pay him...because they didn't have the level of coinage he was owed and had to sit down and work out a payment plan to keep in business. Or another one where a guy was warned away from taking too many "low level" quests at once because it was beginning to directly affect the livelihoods of less experienced/wealthy guild members who relied on jobs that were the equivalent of pest control to make a living.

But that kind of thing only works once you've accepted the inherent premise of basically a centralized odd job center in medieval times, really. And I guess some people just don't care for that, whether they try and side step it with calling it "unrealistic" or just straight up admit they'd prefer a more personal setup than that.
>>96300896
Pic related.

>>96300324
>MKG
oi, it's that sociopathic tripfag from /adv/ who cheats on his wife,

>>96301007
A tripfag... is a garbage human being?

>>96300420
I know. It's why Batman runs around with a symbol on his chest.
But headshots still happen.

>>96301007
And you're a worm who's beneath me.

>>96301076
Goddammit. I tried to delete my post.
Gropey was the only namefag that belonged on /tg/.

>>96301327
Eh, at that point you might as well ask why James Bond and Indiana Jones don't wear helmets all the time since they should expect to be shot at during the events of their films.

>>96282807 (OP)
Yes.
Yes.
I don't like the fantasy of being an adventurer being equated to the corporate drudgery of being a fucking salary-man. That makes intuitive sense to the Japanese because their work culture is so disgusting and dystopian, but for me, the idea of being an adventurer as a career is fundamentally against the whole point of that kind of fantasy.

>>96288027
Just because 4chan sucks now doesn't mean its always sucked.
All the smart, creative, cool people have left. Now it's just me and you, and apparently we're just boring retards.

>>96301413
James Bond and Indiana Jones shoot back. I have no issue with The Punisher not having head gear.

>>96288027
Do tell.

>>96282807 (OP)
Organized adventurer bureaucracies are stupid it should be an informal thing you do amongst small independent groups

>>96301854
how is that proof of origin?

>>96301007
Why is every tripfag an unlikable piece of shit?

>>96303892
Why would anyone ever tripfag on 4chan unless it’s an extremely specific single-thread thing?

Rival adventure guilds as fantasy PMCs sounds neat.

>>96303964
>Why would anyone ever tripfag on 4chan unless it’s an extremely specific single-thread thing?
Primarily it stems from being an attentionwhore. Always.
My reasons for doing also include making my posts easier to find in the archive.
But the most genuinely entertaining aspect is to farm the irrational hatred of complete morons. It really is remarkable. Don't get me wrong, there are those who hate me for what I post and that's valid.
But I seen anons squirm out of the woodwork to froth at me and insult me for stating basic, undeniable facts or giving genuine advice. They constructed an entire fictional mythology of hatred about me that some still religiously adhere to.
It's fascinating and amusing.

Again, I apologize for posting on a trip here. It was unintentional.

>>96306430
apologize to your cucked wife, lol

>>96306568
I have.

When posting things like that, do you accept that you are punching up at someone you feel is above you or do you imagine that you are proudly and gleefully punching down at someone beneath you?

>>96282807 (OP)
Guilds of any kind are sad and gay. Japan didn't invent it, but it's so fucking Japanese to take adventuring and turn it into a company of which you are an employee who has to rise through ranks.

>>96294016
National Geographic is along the lines of the other historical examples given here. It still has nothing to do with MMO still adventure guild bro.

>>96303892
99 times out of 100, name/tripcode is just a tag that simply reveals to us their fetid personality that prompted them to choose this tag in the first place. The remaining 1% use it out of a sense of responsibility rather than vanity though, to host 4chan events and make this site and the world a slightly better place. Obviously, not all hosts.

>>96306849

To be fair in weeb things the guild is hardly the offender. It's the "levels are a thing that characters know about" that is the problem.

>>96306849
That is kind of funny to point out.

But the thing that I find odd is that usually there's just the one adventuring guild. Any major city should have a good 2 or 3, like rival crime syndicates, always trying to get one over on the other.
>>96284300
What would be a decent one to try out? Or better yet, do you know of any that do the rival guilds thing in the fantasy world instead? Closest thing I can think of is competition between military companies, like Black Clover or Bleach's squads, but it's not the same.

>>96307361
>But the thing that I find odd is that usually there's just the one adventuring guild. Any major city should have a good 2 or 3, like rival crime syndicates, always trying to get one over on the other.
Been seeing that trend reverse, actually. More than a few lower-end stories I've been reading focus on the MC either being declared a deadbeat or outright fired by guild politics involve them either joining a far less brutal guild or starting their own. And more than a few of them will make sure the readers feel no sympathy for the previous guild by having them involved in criminal behavior such as overlooking members who regularly engage in theft and vandalism, bribing officials to monopolize job requests, or just straight up engaging in debt slavery on the side. And yes, they inevitably start trying to ruin MC-kun's new guild out of petty revenge for their shit going wrong.

>>96307361
>What would be a decent one to try out? Or better yet, do you know of any that do the rival guilds thing in the fantasy world instead?

Only one I can think of that actually treats the guilds like guilds instead of just focusing on all-encompassing adventuring guilds is "The Kicked Out S-rank Appraiser Creates The Strongest Guild", although that's mainly because even if the main character was kicked out of an adventurer guild, he starts a new one that functions more like an actual artisan guild with merchant contracts and supply issues and the like. Which means that we see him run into actual problems like dealing with bank loans, competing against monopolies, and nearly losing clients to rumors spread by his old bosses to make finding work miserable for him. Don't know if that's your jam, but it's at least something different.

>>96284021
>including beggars
The idea of a beggars "guild" predates Discword by decades at minimum. Wuxia had the idea since at least Condor Heroes and there are real historical examples of fairly organized beggar groups that did function vaguely like "guilds", just without any formal recognition.

>>96283564
>Also what kind of weebshit trash has "dungeon diving" as a fucking career
Have you never heard of a concept of a "megadungeon"? There's nothing particularly egregious about the idea of a massive dungeon complex with its own internal ecology that could require years to decades to fully explore by a variety of specialists. Especially if that shit's vaguely sapient and has capacity for active change.

>>96289905
>And that's not even taking into account the trope of the royal family/church backed "Hero Party" who are officially endorsed to be their chosen champions, or those series where the kingdom is wealthy enough to afford a standing army that repeatedly butts heads with or antagonizes the adventuring guilds regarding jurisdiction over particular monster hunts and dungeon raids.

I do remember one series that actually lead into a full-on siege with a royal army vs the giant merchant city-state the core of the adventuring guild was based out of. Borderline one-sided slaughter because while Adventurers run the whole gamut between useless bums and legendary heroes, their overall experience and training is all small specialist unit tactics with a focus on individualistic excellence. The whole guild rapidly collapsed into uncontrollable chaos because it's a bunch of competitive snowflakes that can't organize for shit, can't march in line for shit, and has no standardization so they can't cooperate to perform grand formation-based magics and have to rely on a handful of archwizards to counter the army raining down strategic meteor strikes n the city walls.

Adventurers basically only regained a fighting chance once the walls fell and the army rushed in because they could revert to their standard tactics and take the army on as a sprawling network of elite guerilla teams inside the labyrinthine city.

you guys are thinking about this adventurer's guild business entirely the wrong way. the actual kino application of the adventurer's guild trope is as a bureaucracy imposed by the nations of the world to manage the affairs of 'adventurers' traveling through and working in their lands. most governments will want to keep track of powerful (and often wealthy) foreigners with few real ties to the region or its people wandering through the land, and an ideal way to do that is to tie the primary financial incentives of those foreigners to some manner of logistical system for tracking them and their exploits.

thus were born the adventurer's guilds: government offices which handle registration of travelling adventurers, gathering of information, contract negotiations, transportation of bounties, collection of taxes, and most of the other minutiae of getting randos to take care of tasks for pay. they operate by providing the best value for the citizens, incentivizing them to bring to the attention of the guild matters which might attract the attention of wandering heroes and problem solvers rather than dealing with them directly. adventurers benefit, albeit less than the citizens, by having a simple system that provides fair pay and a streamlined process that often handles the less glamorous parts of the job for them. guilds typically also offer reduced price services and goods typically used by adventurers and require only a fee-free registration to access, which hooks people in on the savings alone.

this has the effect of drying up opportunity outside the guild by outcompeting those outside it, forcing people to turn to them to get help, which in turn funnels adventurers into the guild as more and more people contract out to them. all this serves, essentially, to corral and keep tabs on the murderhobos that drift through the country. it's a very effective way for a state to tardwrangle high-powered strangers, so many states will end up using them.