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Thread 96285509

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Anonymous No.96285509 >>96285549 >>96285603 >>96285610 >>96285653 >>96286141 >>96286279 >>96286295 >>96286422 >>96286486 >>96286554 >>96286586 >>96288110 >>96288139 >>96291489 >>96291536 >>96291646 >>96293244 >>96294062 >>96294113 >>96294215 >>96294575 >>96295292 >>96295610 >>96295629 >>96295750 >>96299485 >>96299607 >>96303159 >>96303362 >>96303722 >>96305610 >>96310229 >>96310351 >>96310377 >>96310495 >>96310655 >>96310868 >>96316871 >>96317523 >>96317857 >>96330144 >>96332215
If a space marine was stranded on a planet without space travel but a regular population, let's say equal to 1500s earth in terms of tech, could he invent space travel and communication?
Anonymous No.96285549 >>96285665
>>96285509 (OP)
Not without massive narrative ass pull from a master techmarine, with a huge hand waving about as knowledge and access to industrial production.

That would be like sticking your average SAS /seal/spetsnaz/ whatever in medieval Europe and ask him to build a helicopter.
Anonymous No.96285574 >>96289754
If you stranded a senior nasa engineer on a planet, he still wouldn't be able to develop space travel within his lifetime.
Anonymous No.96285575
>leh space marines
Yawn…
Anonymous No.96285603 >>96306053
>>96285509 (OP)
I was literally just thinking about making this thread though I wanted to question what happens to SMs stranded on civilized planets without space travel, in general.

Coerce people and their resources to make some sort of communication with existing vessels would be the best but where would he even start? Would an SM even have the knowledge to recreate a space capable communication device?

I bet an author would hand wave it away by throwing the planet into a warpstorm and having him basically go into the future.
Anonymous No.96285610 >>96285630 >>96286586 >>96290912
>>96285509 (OP)
Presumably their hypnoindoctrination gives them a solid foundation for being stranded on a low-tech planet but being able to construct space-craft would be outside their general remit, capacity or interest. It would be more practical things like warfare related material sciences/engineering. Conqueror the planet, make sure its loyal. The rest of the imperium will get there eventually.
Anonymous No.96285630 >>96285955
>>96285610
So it'd just be a rerun of how a bunch of the Primarchs took over their homeplanets.

Still sounds like it could be interesting.
Anonymous No.96285653 >>96285665
>>96285509 (OP)
Unless he is a techmarine, no
Anonymous No.96285665 >>96285767
>>96285653
>>96285549
What would a techmarine be able to do?
Surely space marines at least understand basic communication theory to re-establish communications in the event of a comms failure?
Anonymous No.96285767
>>96285665
he would have the technical knowledge of what to do, beyond some emergency auto-indoctrination some average marine might have recieved. So a Techmarine might be able to start gathering tech-savy people and school and guide them into the right direction and speed their technological progress up with a guided direction into communication and space travel. Most likely would still require a good amount of time, but he just might pull it off
Anonymous No.96285794 >>96299406 >>96303378
Not even slightly. Most of them are semi-feral gangsters or cavemen indoctrinated as monks and trained as space soldiers.
Anonymous No.96285955 >>96288125
>>96285630
Primarchs could probably come up with space travel given sufficient time. iirc the old index astartes article on the Alpha Legion has Alpharius attacking an imperial exploration fleet with a series of raids from an asteroid field.

If you're wanting some sort of narrative internal conflict stuff, the space marine in question noting how difficult empire building is despite their capacities and/or something about
>my primarch easily did this
could be an interesting angle.
Anonymous No.96286141
>>96285509 (OP)
Lolno.

This is the Imperium. Your average Space Marine probably doesn't know anything about technology beyond what's needed for field maintenance of his equipment.

>so a Techmarine might be able to start gathering tech-savy people and school and guide them into the right direction and speed their technological progress up with a guided direction into communication and space travel.

A pre-industrial society trying to develop their own technology isn't going to progress very far with all the candles, incense, and prayer.
Anonymous No.96286279 >>96293626 >>96295826 >>96307343
>>96285509 (OP)
Yes, not immediately, but he'll eventually get there.
An Astartes is evolutionarily superior to any normal human, both physically and intellectually.
They have a longer lifespan than any human, with one case of an Astartes (a normal one, not Primaris) reaching 10,000 years of age, and his body still refused to let him die (even though his body was very aged).

First, he'll focus his efforts on conquering the planet. It will probably take a few centuries, but eventually, everyone will bow before the immortal king.
The next step would be to use all the planet's resources to communicate with the Imperium or create ships fit for star travel, as well as a few regiments of soldiers as an offering.
Now, the only question remains: whether he'll stay to rule the planet or return to his chapter and use the planet as a recruiting planet, or give him his own Space Marine chapter.
Anonymous No.96286295 >>96286467 >>96295826
>>96285509 (OP)
no
marines are dumb and ignorant.
Anonymous No.96286422 >>96286560
>>96285509 (OP)
Yes, canonically all Space Marines are equipped with the skills necessary to take over an entire planet if the situation requires it.
Anonymous No.96286467
>>96286295
quit projecting
Anonymous No.96286486
>>96285509 (OP)
No.
Anonymous No.96286554
>>96285509 (OP)
No. /thread
Anonymous No.96286560
>>96286422
Cite sources without headcanon or hyperbole.
Anonymous No.96286586 >>96286750
>>96285509 (OP)
>>96285610
I mean I wouldn't find it odd they knew enough about the basics of radio communication that they could fabricate a high power transmitter, but actual FTL Communication in 40k uses Psykers so that's not going to be a Tech issue.
Anonymous No.96286750 >>96288119
>>96286586
That's a good point. Probably some capacity to made a signal that can be detected from orbit or in system if a passing ship happens to be there.
Might be quite difficult with limited materials and fabrication tools though.
Anonymous No.96287282
yes, theres stories of lone marines rallying entire planets and conquering/reconquering them

It would probably take a couple of decades but they'd be speedrunning through tech 21st century advancements
Anonymous No.96288110
>>96285509 (OP)
Only if he was an Iron Fist, Salamander, or Iron Warrior

Spess mehreens of the other legions are not necessarily capable of kickstarting the industrial and technological revolution

Thousand Sons might be able to pull some warpfuckery bullshit to get it done but sorcery is always a wildcard
Anonymous No.96288119 >>96290990
>>96286750
>Might be quite difficult with limited materials and fabrication tools though.
I mean yeah, but it's Electromagnetism, he could unga-bunga cave man it if he needed to.
Anonymous No.96288125 >>96290973
>>96285955
>Primarchs could probably come up with space travel given sufficient time.
Rogal Dorn turned a planet of ice fishing, igloo building Eskimos into a small space empire, probably the most impressive feat of empire building from any of the primarchs
Anonymous No.96288139
>>96285509 (OP)
Maybe if he's a psyker. Or at least he'd have a way to call home that way. Bit if not I'm sure a marine would find a way to contact the wider imperium. I can't imagine the planetary governor of such a planet being eager to refuse an audience with a space marine.
Anonymous No.96289754 >>96291052 >>96295826 >>96332224
>>96285574
Senior NASA Engineer: probably about 50 years of living remaining at most
Space marine: 5 to 10 centuries

You're looking at 10 - 20 times the lifespan for the marine.

Time frame in OP's question: Equivalent to Earth circa 1500s
Only took about 460 years from 1500 for Earth to develop space travel which is within the marine's expected life span.

The big question is does he know any science, and is he going to drive technology forward with goals in mind, and is he going to let religious dogma get in the way of technical advancement.
Anonymous No.96290912
>>96285610
P much this. Space marines would make sure the planet accepts the imperium and wait till it eventually shows up
Anonymous No.96290973 >>96296423
>>96288125
Its been a while since I read the IF IA article, so my knowledge of what Inwit(sp) was up to when he arrived is limited and probably retconned. Did the Dorn primarch novel get into it a bit? I had assumed because they were described as subterranean ice world hive cities they were already high tech.
Anonymous No.96290990 >>96291626
>>96288119
I think the trick would be making something that repeatedly broadcast because it would need to do that regularly enough that whoever was passing through would notice an unusual signal.
Other dramatic story telling could include
>Space marine knows there's a limited time frame for a ship looking for him, race to build sufficient broadcast
>constant broadcast draws in opposing forces
>SM dies, broadcast brings in imperial and/or opposing forces who now ruin the local's day
Anonymous No.96291020 >>96308991
Da Vinci was born ahead of his time and he could barely do what he wanted to.
Anonymous No.96291052 >>96291626
>>96289754
>does he know any science
Not unless he's a techmarine, but the machine cult comes with its own issues, particularly in terms of sharing knowledge. Which would be necessary to scale up and make anything beyond toys.
Anonymous No.96291063
I do like the story idea of a Marine stuck on a Feudal World and having to integrate himself into it.
Anonymous No.96291489
>>96285509 (OP)
A single space marine could pretty much become the dominant warlord ina ancient/feudal setting. I can see them taking over the planet and turn it into the worship of the Emperor. Also, maybe make a giant SOS sign visible from space?
Anonymous No.96291536 >>96291626 >>96294062
>>96285509 (OP)
No space marines do not have the scientific knowledge of how their tech actually works, they just know how to maintain their personal equipment.
Anonymous No.96291626 >>96292061 >>96332259
>>96290990
Yeah, it wouldn't be that difficult to pull of...

>>96291052
>>96291536
And I really don't think the basics of radio communication is that far outside a Marine's tactical wheelhouse to rig up a rudimentary transmitter.
Anonymous No.96291646
>>96285509 (OP)
Wasn't that kind of the premise for old school WF? I remember an old theory floating around that Sigmar was a lost primarch that Geedubs dropped despite being one of the better epileptic trees.
Anonymous No.96292061 >>96292581 >>96292649 >>96293402
>>96291626
Why would it be remotely within their skill set? The basis of the entire setting is that the Imperium is an ignorant, superstitious dystopia. And marines tend to be recruited from ultra-violent shitholes, so most will know even less than average. Their training covers how to use and maintain equipment, not understand and repair it.
Besides which what fucking good would a radio do them? Last I checked radio waves were limited to the speed of light, and you'd need something a hell of a lot better than rudimentary to (eventually) get a message to a nearby system that wasn't even listening.
Anonymous No.96292581 >>96293402 >>96295786
>>96292061
>why would radio operations and fundamentals be in the skillset of surgical strike super commandos?
Is this a real question?
You seem low on actual fluff reading. Space marines are recruited from a variety of places, but then are hypnoindoctrinated in a variety of skills.
If you'd even bother to read the thread you'd see the idea of sending a signal at all, to get the attention of a passing in system ship could be a goal.
Anonymous No.96292649 >>96295786
>>96292061
>The basis of the entire setting is that the Imperium is an ignorant, superstitious dystopia.
It's not ignorant. Belief and emotion have a very real impact on the 40K universe, up to and including making technology work where it would otherwise be impossible.
You're talking about an elite force of warriors that fight for decades, sometimes centuries on planets before ever receiving aid from the Imperium. SM can and do maintain their own equipment, but not to the extent that the Mechanicus can.
Anonymous No.96293244
>>96285509 (OP)
even the most skilled tech marines would struggle to reestablish communication, building an engine, especially a warp capable one is out of the question on his own unless the planet held an stc
Anonymous No.96293402
>>96292061
>>96292581
>>why would radio operations and fundamentals be in the skillset of surgical strike super commandos?
Exactly, and besides needing an idea on how their own Comms work, knowing how to interfere with Enemy means of Communication would be essential for the kind of operations Space Marines are expected to carry out.
Anonymous No.96293538
Based on my non-expert understanding of the lore a space marine would be able to essentially create a warrior band which could snowball into a small army which could snowball into a large faction which could snowball into conquering the planet.

But the methods would essentially be mad max tier. Just direct hands-on warlord kind of approach. So technically he'd be able to wrangle "talent" to do specific tasks for him which then depends on the talent available. If all he has are some primitive warriors, then it's Conan time, if he manages to conquer and commandeer an enclave with scientists he might make use of their expertise.

But not quite sure he'd be able to pull up any knowledge about technology other than how to optimize weapon use and general tactics.
Given that they live a long time he might end up figuring stuff on his own, but he'd be kind of starting from scratch.

Also, without the SM infrastructure and support he's just a big strong dude that knows superior tactics. One sneaky explosive charge or sabotage or ambush and he's toast. Given his stature and so on he'd be a prime target for assassination wherever he goes.
Anonymous No.96293626 >>96294366
>>96286279
>An Astartes is evolutionarily superior
A marine hasnt evolved. A marine is constructed.
Anonymous No.96294062
>>96285509 (OP)
Best you're getting is a transmitter to try and contact Imperial authorities.
>>96291536
Depends on the Chapter. Some of the real bone-headed ones are reliant on their serfs to do anything that isn't fighting, but one like the Iron Hands who modify their armour in their free-time would certainly have a better idea of what to do.
Anonymous No.96294113
>>96285509 (OP)
I mean he might be able to, but he almost certainly wouldn't. The Marine would just set about trying to secure the world, and then wait for some ship or whatever to notice him and drop by.

It would depend on the chapter I think also.
Anonymous No.96294215 >>96332272
>>96285509 (OP)
No, your average space marine is not trained in tech or sciences. An ork though could eventually figure it out.
Anonymous No.96294366 >>96294658
He would probably start to eat the natives in hopes of figuring it out.
Also, if he's a psyker he would probably start dabbling in astropathy.
>>96293626
Same for tyranids. Warhammerfags arent very good in biology.
Anonymous No.96294575 >>96299381
>>96285509 (OP)
Space Communication is done by special tech assisted psykers so FTL warp powered comms? Almost no way, unless he was willing into get some heretical shit like sacrificing hundreds of slaves and encoding a message into their death screams or something.

Space Travel? It depends on what and who is available, but Space Marines are pretty educated and intelligent so its possible given centuries and a populace willing to follow a space marine immortal god king. Consider that our own modern space travel without the advantage of prior knowledge of rocket travel took only 60 years to go from the very first plane to the moon landing. Space Marines can live for centuries or even millennia.

tl;dr no one FTL comms, yes on entry level space travel.
Anonymous No.96294658
>>96294366
Tyranids are evolved though, it's just 99% of the time you aren't actually fighting them, but their bio-constructed weapons made out of biological LEGO.
Anonymous No.96295292
>>96285509 (OP)
No.
Anonymous No.96295610
>>96285509 (OP)
I would think he could, but only by unifying the population and creating a situation where educated intellectuals working together could thrive.
Anonymous No.96295629
>>96285509 (OP)
>some people think science and reason is the way forward
>others think the only solution is to conquer the entire planet
sounds like old earth
Anonymous No.96295750
>>96285509 (OP)
By himself? Highly unlikely. Reigning as an immortal warlord ala Huron and pushing his people towards certain technological goals in a centuries long return to the stars? Sure.
Anonymous No.96295786 >>96296501 >>96308539
>>96292581
>operating a radio is the same as building one
Fucking hell.
>get the attention of a passing in system ship
A friendly ship in the system is going to the planet anyway. Why else would it be there?
>>96292649
>It's not ignorant
>BLESSED IS THE MIGHT TOO SMALL FOR DOUBT
>An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred
>Forgot the power of technology, science, and common humanity
The Imperium is not just ignorant but proudly and dogmatically so. It's one of the foundational ideas of the whole setting.
Anonymous No.96295826 >>96295844 >>96295917 >>96299395 >>96303378
>>96286279
>intellectually

They take gangers and people from death worlds and roid them up wth blasting them with propaganda. The only tragically insightfulthing about th SMs is they don't really follow the religion of the Imperium, rather theygo through the motions.

>>96286295
I certainly prefer the idea of Marines being enhanced thugs. Maybe one or two chapters can have trappings of pretension like the Blood Angels, but as a note of humour, any extra curricular deviation from the Codex, even cultural should be treated with absolute suspicion.

>>96289754
The lifespan thing is a bit of al lter hand wave that ignores Chapters are kept small and have a lot of Churn. The fact that there is anyone outside the Warp who was still alive during the Heresy is just silly and actually drags the narrative down.

>Somehow, >insertname< returned
Anonymous No.96295844 >>96295941 >>96299395
>>96295826
>They take gangers and people from death worlds and roid them up wth blasting them with propaganda. The only tragically insightfulthing about th SMs is they don't really follow the religion of the Imperium, rather theygo through the motions.

Space Marines may come from trash but they are all extremely high IQ. They are smart and driven enough to pick up pretty much any skill. While the limits of space marines are conflicting and largely up to writer they are definitely above and sometimes very far above the intelligence of non-transhuman humans.
Anonymous No.96295917
>>96295826
The long service service awards as they were 30 years ago was a cool idea though when lasting a couple of centuries or so got you a stud or an earring. The churn means lasting a couple of centuries is an achievement. Without the churn from constant combat and misadventure I can see that a few centuries of lifespan for a marine is nothing really special.

I agree that it gets silly when they have many thousands of years lifespans. "Somehow, >insertname< returned" is on a par with bringing back dead characters from parallel universes in comics or being it the main characters' clones that died (which I meant as Marvel comics reference but I've heard Disney fucked around with Palpatine as a clone).
Anonymous No.96295941
>>96295844
>Space Marines may come from trash
Smurfs are recruited from Ultramar aren't they, which is some sort of near idyllic high tech mini-empire without a trace of death worlds or heresy, so they're not trash but they still do okay (plot armour or not).
Anonymous No.96295980 >>96296061
I mean, they have a lot of knowledge downloaded into them while they cook. It's probably take at least centuries to do it single handedly, but I don't see why not.
Anonymous No.96296061
>>96295980
It's true, Space Marines absorb the knowledge of the victims they consume.
He'd just need to eat the smartest people on the planet.
Anonymous No.96296423
>>96290973
I recall Inwit being a primitive world with unused/long abandoned shipyards floating in its orbit but I could be misremembering
Anonymous No.96296501
>>96295786
>super radio operator with enhanced brain and photographic memory
You idiot.
>passing through for other reasons
Not hard to imagine if you had one.
Anonymous No.96299381
>>96294575
On the other hand, inventing new tech is heretical unless you're a senior AdMech magos, so the marine probably wouldn't even try.
Anonymous No.96299395
>>96295826
>>96295844
It's kind of a self-solving problem: a marine that isn't good at his job isn't going to be living past a century and any marine that does is going to be wise without the downsides of being old.
Anonymous No.96299406
>>96285794
This, space marines didn't exactly go to starfleet academy. They were chosen for their savagery.
Anonymous No.96299485 >>96302674 >>96307357 >>96308497
>>96285509 (OP)
My guy, a space marine can't even get off of Necromunda if he's stranded there.
Anonymous No.96299607
>>96285509 (OP)
No. Space Marine is a warrior and not a scientist/engineer.
Average space marine gets a hard no.

Techmarine perhaps might able to reinvent simple, aka modern space travel with rockets.

But 40K warp travel? Absolutely not.

Even with technically unlimited lifespan there's infinitely large number of issues. So maybe in a few thousand years.
Anonymous No.96302674 >>96308497
>>96299485
that dude is a brain soup bangel, and he might even be a full space marine
Anonymous No.96303159 >>96303835 >>96310286 >>96332287
>>96285509 (OP)
>Superior in every way to a normal human.
>Ultimate warrior.
>The most advanced armor on the planet, 40,000 years ahead of its time.
>Ability to absorb knowledge by eating its victim's brain.
>Photographic memory.
>He has a special ability depending on the chapter.
>A lifespan so long that a Space Marine has never been seen to die of old age.

Yes, he'll get it eventually. First, he needs resources. Resources are obtained through manpower. Manpower is obtained by conquering villages. Other villages will oppose him. He has to conquer the entire world.
Anonymous No.96303362 >>96303455
>>96285509 (OP)
Since when have space marines been engineers
Anonymous No.96303378
>>96285794
>>96295826
only the really smart little boys can pass the aspirant trials
Anonymous No.96303455
>>96303362
The constant references since the early 90s about master artificers and shit?
Anonymous No.96303722 >>96307461
>>96285509 (OP)
A single guy can't do it no matter who he is. It's a gigantic logistical undertaking. Just gathering the resources required just to figure out HOW to do it would take the poor guy over a thousand years. But if you have the manpower it's very much possible no matter how retarded everyone involved may be through sheer trial and error.

So really it boils down to if the space marine can conquer the world, which I personally find to be very dubious considering how little achieving that kind of power has with any kind of personal merit. And marines aren't even all that mighty individually!
Anonymous No.96303835 >>96310286
>>96303159
>everything goes great until they hit the industrial revolution and his opponents start blowing up the buildings he's in
Anonymous No.96305610 >>96330126
>>96285509 (OP)
I invented a tabletop RPG a few years ago that was similar to this premise. Criminals are given an option in space; do you want to rot in prison, or do you want an opportunity start fresh and achieve some good for the world, you will be free when the term is up too, a single year. A year to the criminal, but a 1000 for the inhabitants of the planet they're beamed down to.

The planets they are dropped down on are usually around the medieval ages but there's variances. The goal is to guide the development of the planet to space flight within the one year/one thousand year period they are termed, where a global civilization will join the intergalactic union and they will be a free member of society again molded by their service to the state.

This was just a side event, players could choose to go to prison instead where the sessions are way different.
Anonymous No.96306053
>>96285603
If it's your average Space Marine besides getting the local population to help him place a transmitter on the highest peak or whatever they'd probably just end up acting like a local security force. Defend the population from whatever threats existed and enforce Imperial law in a way they see fit. Obviously depends on the chapter, a Black Templar might be more enthusiastic in correcting the locals in regards to the Imperial Cult than an Ultramarine or a Space Wolf. Also depends on the SMs temperament. A weak willed individual could become a dictator and even fall to chaos in the process of trying to correct a planet while a more moderate individual could become a sort of generational consultant to the rulers of the planet. Interesting concept tho.
Anonymous No.96307343
>>96286279
It's debatable whether a marine could take over a low tech planet alone. There's a novel featuring Grey Knights in terminator armour taking casualties from normal humans armed with stone age weaponry, as fucking retarded as that is.
Anonymous No.96307357 >>96307410 >>96308497
>>96299485
How the fuck does a random ass Blood Angel get stuck in a hive world?
Anonymous No.96307410 >>96307488
>>96307357
He went renegade. Either that or he's not actually stranded and he's just scouting for talent.
Anonymous No.96307461 >>96307503
>>96303722
Hey, Napoleon almost succeeded, he was in a more technologically advanced world and he was an ordinary human.

There's no reason a space marine can't do it.
Anonymous No.96307488
>>96307410
>Scouting

Custodes already do that though.
Anonymous No.96307503 >>96307519 >>96307593 >>96310690
>>96307461
A normal person has a better chance of getting it done than some giga Conan who just dropped in from nowhere and has 0 standing in society and probably doesn't even speak any local languages. As I said, it's not about personal ability.
Anonymous No.96307519 >>96308466 >>96308524
>>96307503
>probably doesn't even speak any local languages
This problem in particular is easily solved by eating a random local's brain.
Anonymous No.96307593 >>96309094
>>96307503
The guy could be an angel or a demigod.
How much more prestige do you need to conquer a medieval world?
Anonymous No.96308466 >>96309435
>>96307519
How did the Emperor get away with giving every single Marine such a blatantly sorcerous ability?

Then again the only chapters said to do it with any regularity seem to fall to Chaos or are on the verge of falling to Chaos, so maybe he didn't get away with it.
Anonymous No.96308497
>>96299485
>>96302674
>>96307357
It's implied he has the red thirst pretty bad, its not far from the black rage
Anonymous No.96308524
>>96307519
And he still has a ton of problems, probably more now that he could be found out as a cannibal.
Anonymous No.96308539
>>96295786
>>An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred
Yeah because chaos infects the mind if you learn about it. It also infects technology that's more advanced than a windows operating system.
Literally everything that happens in the Imperium happens for a very good reason.
Anonymous No.96308991
>>96291020
DaVinci lived in a cave as a child
Anonymous No.96309094 >>96309133 >>96309959 >>96310425 >>96315997
>>96307593
If it's an authentically medieval world, kind of a fucking lot. Sure, our Spess Mehreen would be by far the best fighter on that planet, even if given period-appropriate gear, but medieval politics aren't about who can hit the hardest. They're about rights, obligations and social castes. He'd be worth nothing from a marriage standpoint, he'd be worth a lot as a knight but not a proper lord, and he'd still inevitably eat shit if whatever force he is embedded with routs and he ends up standing alone against a few thousand knights.

If the Mehreen is smart, he'd find regionally important upset notables - city patriarchs, traders, nobles, church officials - who are typically up to shit and may be trying to subvert their lord's power and carve out their own little fiefdom. That sort of public would love a figurehead for a Totally Legitimate Uprising, and a giant guy with a booming voice who insists he's basically the grandson of God himself (the faith in question being nobody but him practices, but, like, he still acts the part so it's fine enough) is a solid figurehead with proper buildup of him in the public eye.

The Mehreen would be used by them, and would be wise to use them in turn, giving them what they're owed while leveraging his figurehead position to eventually outlast all his backers and solidify his reign. He's a fucking monk so he won't care much for wealth, power or most other evils, he'd be very well-positioned to exert justice and authority in a kingly manner, as to appease the masses who want exactly that from a king. A century or two and he'd be a very secure king with whipped elites, loyal masses and a vague memoery of that he kind of has a chapter to go back to.
Anonymous No.96309133 >>96309176
>>96309094
How would the marine even find himself allowed anywhere near any of those kinds of people?
Anonymous No.96309176 >>96309204 >>96309430
>>96309133
Very easily; play to his strengths. It's the job of the local authorities to handle, for instance, bandits and robbers. They're a persistent pest. Sometimes, the actual lord of the land may be handling this (along with riding about for legal disputes), especially if the problem is less some random deserters or a small band of mercenaries and more a whole robber baron, but mostly it's up to the local officials or some relative or a crown official put to the task. He could also hunt dangerous wildlife, show off his skills that way, but bandits are a more interesting option because they're human beings, and piling up bandit corpses is a guaranteed way to have people start to worry a little.

Overall, a Marine is exceptionally well-fitted to hunting small, primitively armed groups of criminals, and a Marine is also typically capable enough to orchestrate his hunt so that his skills are made apparent to whatever party he wants to impress. His whole existence would be a matter of extreme confusion to whatever unlucky sergeant, bailiff or whatever other petty local official would be confronted with that his three-month work of trying to track down people stealing cartfuls of cabbage or whatever was resolved with two robbers smeared into the ground, and ten more captured and confessing all their sins to not also be smeared into the walll. Nobody would want to be the one responsible for this guy and figuring out what to do with him, so the sergeant would probably report the case to his superior, who'll report it to his superior, and at some point somebody important will show up out of curiosity or to capitalize on the opportunity - because somebody always shows up to capitalize on an opportunity. He's honestly not unlikely to end up meeting the actual king fairly quickly, because if the world really is just basically medieval Earth, he'd be a giant curio to have at your court.

Whoever he meets, it'll be just a matter of selling his services. The corpses help.
Anonymous No.96309204 >>96309253 >>96309933
>>96309176
Nobody would trust him with any of that though. The hunter wouldn't let him steal his bounty and would instantly bitch to the authorities, the authorities wouldn't task him to deal with robbers because they have no idea who he is, bandits wouldn't have him for the same reason, or even if they did he'd be an eternal piss boy not trusted around anything sharp until he'd lose his shit at the mistreatment and kill them all, leaving him exactly where he started.

It just isn't that simple. I have no doubts that the marine can live off the land indefinitely and pretty much independently (whether other people like it or not), but he's got no reliable "in" into society. Nothing but luck can get him in.
Anonymous No.96309253
>>96309204
It really isn't a matter of getting people to trust them, so much as it is a matter of presenting people with a situation they have to resolve somehow.

A hunter complaining about his bounty being stolen is fine for the Marine; that way his existence and capability as a hunter is revealed to the authorities, who will be fucking flabbergasted at his existence and would have to do something about this giant, strange man who doesn't speak anybody's language. If they're smart, they'd try to turn this problem into an opportunity, and use him somehow.

Same goes for the bandits; it's less a matter of going 'hey, local bailiff, trust me bro I can be trusted' and more presenting him with piles of bandit corpses and babbling Low Gothic nonsense whenever he's asked anything.

It's certainly not going to be easy, and people would reasonably mistrust a stranger who is this weird, but his overall abnormality helps.
>even if they did he'd be an eternal piss boy not trusted around anything sharp
So he'd be the giant equivalent of a court midget. A living curio who gets food and space because he's interesting. That's entirely fine if the marine isn't an imbecile.

Ultimately, to a medieval world all he is a John Middleton; a really big guy who makes for a solid bodyguard due to his scale and strength, and who would be of mild entertainment to the rich and powerful. A Marine can make a court giant position work perfectly fine. It's a simple and functional "in" to society. If he wants a more proactive in, he could, just as outlined, put his combat skills to use.
Anonymous No.96309430 >>96309438
>>96309176
>space marine X local lord
Anonymous No.96309435
>>96308466
>How did the Emperor get away with giving every single Marine such a blatantly sorcerous ability?
science
Anonymous No.96309438 >>96309440
>>96309430
I am trying my hardest to summon that autist in here (and the people arguing about femarines and femstodes, by saying 'them' instead of 'him' in the previous post). I hope you appreciate my efforts.
Anonymous No.96309440
>>96309438
please no
Anonymous No.96309933 >>96309971
>>96309204
>but he'd need a loisence to do that
Damn that local lord and his ID checks. If only a 7' killing machine had some way he could demonstrate any skills useful to a pre-industrial society and his CV won't stand up to their strict background checks.
Anonymous No.96309959 >>96310031 >>96310425
>>96309094
>If it's an authentically medieval world, kind of a fucking lot. Sure, our Spess Mehreen would be by far the best fighter on that planet, even if given period-appropriate gear, but medieval politics aren't about who can hit the hardest.
They kind of are, in that politics exist purely so we can sort out who can 'hit the hardest' in a figurative sense.

>Rights, obligation, and social castes
Heh, yeah nobody gave three fucks about any of those except when enforced with violence. Peasants who wouldn't revolt had no rights, a lord who struck no fear had no obligations, and the social castes were enforced with violence.

A marine bent on domination and conquest would certainly have to start small and look to dominate the desperate or the fringes of society, but that's where his personal abilities would excel so it'd be no real difficulty. If he has proper equipment, it's going to be hundreds of times easier.
Past that, being wiser and smarter than the entirety of the planet is essentially an instant win button. Just thinking that it's a good idea to have soldiers drill and train is enough to completely revolutionize war. And the internal politics of a Marine's Kingdom would be incredibly stagnant and stable since he won't fucking die and thus succession is neither a threat to higher ranking followers nor an opportunity for the ambitious ones to seize power.

The real trouble would be creating industry in a more modern sense, and whether a Marine actually would have the know-how needed to get back to the stars. He's probably shit out of luck there since Astropaths are specially trained Psykers iirc and there's fuck all other ways to communicate.
Anonymous No.96309971
>>96309933
People are going to assume he's a criminal on the run specifically because there's no convenient database for them to check to verify otherwise.
Anonymous No.96310031 >>96310130 >>96310425
>>96309959
>Heh, yeah nobody gave three fucks about any of those except when enforced with violence. Peasants who wouldn't revolt had no rights, a lord who struck no fear had no obligations, and the social castes were enforced with violence.
You're missing the forest for the trees. Violence as the true system of everything is an everpresent thing, in Middle Ages certainly so, but the things I listed are exceptionally fine reasons for violence. They're a logical system that permits the peasantry to whine to the king if their lord is failing to conduct himself appropriate to his obligations, and by that permits the king to brutalize the lord in question for fucking up his duties. The crashlanded Marine would need to work to get legal rights to punch people under this system that won't have his budding kingdom hate him, and fundamentally, a Marine still dies if confronted with a levy force that knows to just keep stabbing him with spears and shoot him with arrows until he finally goes down.
>it's a good idea to have soldiers drill and train
People generally understood the value of this in the Middle Ages, that's what the knight class fundamentally was. They were a dedicated militant layer of society who lived and breathed the action of beating up weaker, less trained people in worse equipment. It just wasn't economical to expand drill, training and far more importantly consistent supply and payment to a whole army. The Mehreen here would know a standing army is good to have, but he'd run in the same economical issue all other kings run into when they try to get one. It's expensive.
>he won't fucking die
Until he suddenly does. Enough assassination attempts and he'll die.
>He's probably shit out of luck there since Astropaths are specially trained Psykers iirc and there's fuck all other ways to communicate.
I could buy him trying to McGuyver a Warp comms relay out of wild psykers and enough Emperor icons.
Anonymous No.96310130 >>96310153 >>96310425
>>96310031
>The crashlanded Marine would need to work to get legal rights to punch people under this system
He really wouldn't need to. People tend to obey conquerors, and fear is a healthy antidote to hatred.
>a Marine still dies if confronted with a levy force that knows to just keep stabbing him with spears and shoot him with arrows until he finally goes down.
This is a real non-issue because nobody is going to seriously try and fight a guy who has the capacity to murder hundreds of people with casual ease, and probably thousands if he's pushing himself. Morale will break long before the Marines stamina ever would.
This has happened IRL too. Richard the Lionhearted killed so many people at Jaffa that eventually the Saracens were too scared to keep going after him despite outnumbering him by the literal thousands.
>People generally understood the value of this in the Middle Ages, that's what the knight class fundamentally was
Nope. Knights did not drill. They trained on a mostly personal level and sucked at coordination, which is what often got them obliterated in war.
Maurice of Nassau is the guy who actually revived the practice of Military Drill in Europe, since it was completely forgotten after the Roman Empire fell. Gustavus Adolphus adopting and improving on Maurice's own designs is what made Sweden a massively outsized power for its population and wealth during the Thirty Years War.
A Marine who is centuries curve? No contest, any force he creates is going to slaughter the competition.
>he'd run in the same economical issue all other kings run into when they try to get one. It's expensive.
Expense and being poor was their issue. Being poor wouldn't be an issue as the Marine could easily create a centralized authoritarian state that collects wealth far more efficiently than a feudal kingdom.
>Until he suddenly does. Enough assassination attempts and he'll die.
Nah. He can't be poisoned, has insane reflexes, and is nigh invincible anyways.
Anonymous No.96310153 >>96310170 >>96310182 >>96310255
>>96310130
>This is a real non-issue because nobody is going to seriously try and fight a guy who has the capacity to murder hundreds of people with casual ease, and probably thousands if he's pushing himself.
marines can't do that
Anonymous No.96310170 >>96310177
>>96310153
Marines can easily do that. If this guy went planetside with proper armor he'd be capable of hitting five digits, easily.
Anonymous No.96310171 >>96321849
The battlefleet Gothic rulebook mentions that the feral world of Unloth was able to build a lunar class cruiser without additional industrial support so yes, in theory.
Anonymous No.96310177
>>96310170
no they can't
Anonymous No.96310182 >>96310189
>>96310153
It can take hundreds of combatants to kill a marine if they have anti-marine weapons. Dudes with spears and bows? No chance lmao
Anonymous No.96310189 >>96310198 >>96310201
>>96310182
nope, they die to spears and shit in the novels even with power armor

and the game says they are only marginally tougher than a trained soldier
Anonymous No.96310198 >>96310207
>>96310189
Anonymous No.96310201 >>96310207
>>96310189
If you wanna believe so man.
Anonymous No.96310207 >>96310216
>>96310198
>>96310201
you really have nothing to go on here, this "can kill 1000 dudes naked" shit is not present anywhere in the lore
Anonymous No.96310216 >>96310231
>>96310207
Last 40k novel I read, they needed 200 dudes to take down a blind marine with no armor who was already half-dead. In the same book, another marine that's extremely badly injured takes out scores of people nonstop.
Anonymous No.96310229
>>96285509 (OP)
It took a few million marines maybe 300 years to conquer a hundred million star systems, constantly having to fight Xenos and Rebellions and Humies and eachother and most terrifying of all, Bureaucracy, to do so, and failure was never even in the cards.
Yeah, I think one of them could handle a podunk planet.
Anonymous No.96310231 >>96310246
>>96310216
and in helsreach they go down to regular ass spears in power armor, who cares?

the actual lore says they're just above average soldiers with top tier gear, now take away the gear
Anonymous No.96310246 >>96310250
>>96310231
>But in my novel-
Hey you said it's not present anywhere, you were wrong lol.
Anonymous No.96310250 >>96310268
>>96310246
it's not, outsourced fanfiction is not lore
Anonymous No.96310255 >>96310266 >>96310345
>>96310153
There's a Horus Heresy novel where a Marine takes on a crowd of hundreds armed with power tools and being controlled by Chaos, and kills most of them before he gets pinned down under the sheer weight of corpses and manage to use the power tools to cut through his armor.
Anonymous No.96310266 >>96310273
>>96310255
and in actuality they have 1 point of toughness over a trained soldier
Anonymous No.96310268
>>96310250
Good thing we're talking about official GW endorsed lore. Sorry if that gets your panty in a twist, anon.
Anonymous No.96310273 >>96310282
>>96310266
>in actuality
>starts talking about game mechanics
Kek
Anonymous No.96310282 >>96310293
>>96310273
>starts talking about actual, quantifiable capabilities instead of incoherent, contradictory paid fanfiction
you got that right, sorry it makes you seethe
Anonymous No.96310286
>>96303159
>>96303835
>"The rebels discover a brand new low tech trick to keep the space marine from finding them: STAIRS!"
Anonymous No.96310293 >>96310296
>>96310282
>actual
>still talking about game mechanics
Post models with timestamp, you have 5 minutes.
Anonymous No.96310296
>>96310293
concession accepted
Anonymous No.96310345 >>96310362
>>96310255
In the Helsreach novel a marine in power armor dies to 2 guys with spears.
>doesn't count!
Then we're not using the novels. That leaves us with just the mechanics.
Anonymous No.96310351 >>96310359
>>96285509 (OP)
Space travel is a tough one. He could pretty easily take over the planet no doubt but interstellar travel is dependent on psyker bullshit
Anonymous No.96310359 >>96310448
>>96310351
Actually we've established pretty definitively over the course of the thread that a marine can't conquer the planet without a lot of luck.
Anonymous No.96310362 >>96310367 >>96312928
>>96310345
Hmm...
Anonymous No.96310367 >>96310380
>>96310362
>according to the book's plot summary
lmao

you probably didn't read even the novels you were quoting either
Anonymous No.96310377
>>96285509 (OP)
No on communication, maybe on space travel. Depends on whether it's 1500s earth in terms of resources too or if it's a more barren world than that, and whether he has the knowledge. A Techmarine could probably do it.
Anonymous No.96310380 >>96310381
>>96310367
I consider your lack of a rebuttal a concession, have a good day anon.
Anonymous No.96310381 >>96310387
>>96310380
you should consider conceding some weight
Anonymous No.96310387
>>96310381
Why?
Anonymous No.96310425 >>96318233
>>96309094
>>96309959
>>96310031
>>96310130
You're all forgetting that it's not a medieval world, it's the 1500s. That covers the late renaissance and early-modern periods. The social order is already going to be getting shaken around like a baby in a pitbulls jaws and guns are already a thing.

The real question is whether the Marine would be able to spark industrialization or revolutionize firearms. He can probably just fight his way to power already (Might be a problem with guns becoming a thing if he has no equipment, but OP didn't say he doesn't) already, but once he's there it's all down to what kind of knowledge he possesses.

Here's another and better question: Could a Chaos Marine with no equipment corrupt an entire world like that on his own?
Anonymous No.96310448 >>96310478 >>96310496
>>96310359
No, you just started asserting that...
The thread can't even agree whether he could build a basic radio or not.
Anonymous No.96310478 >>96310488 >>96310496
>>96310448
According to the black library novel, The Blurgeoning of Fharthmog, Marines are so ignorant that they are incapable of comprehending a pair of tweezers except as weapons of war. Building even a tin can telephone is out of the question for them.
Anonymous No.96310488 >>96310496
>>96310478
Well the 16th book of the Chaos Strikes Twice series says that a Marine could construct a hyperadvanced radio in his own mind and then rotate it in so many different dimensions that it materializes infront of him.
Anonymous No.96310495 >>96310505
>>96285509 (OP)
what do you mean "could"? they do it all the time in the lore, there's an entire classification for worlds of that tech level and there's tons of them
Anonymous No.96310496
>>96310478
>>96310488
>>96310448
According to the rulebook, Marines can only choose to move, shoot, run, or assault. There is no "construct radio" action anywhere in the book.
Anonymous No.96310505 >>96310536 >>96311045
>>96310495
>marines invent space travel all the time
Anonymous No.96310536
>>96310505
A 5 man squad stranded on 5 different planets in the 5th book of Leviathan Destiny all do it almost simultaneously.
Anonymous No.96310655 >>96310817
>>96285509 (OP)
not their job. however, them singlehandedly bringing that planet into the imperium as a FANATICALLY HARD LINE loyal planet even for the imperium is in their wheelhouse.
Anonymous No.96310690
>>96307503
>it's not about personal ability.
its entirely about personal ability. in lore a single SM is sent to quell a rebellion. and he does it by himself and sets up a loyalist govt, before leaving to do it all over again tomorrow.
Anonymous No.96310817
>>96310655
>FANATICALLY HARD LINE
Marines don't even follow the Imperial creed by default.
Anonymous No.96310868 >>96311049 >>96311146 >>96311695
>>96285509 (OP)
It would be the perfect situation for a Dark Angels.

But I have a question: could the Marine use his Gene-Seed to create more Marines?
Anonymous No.96311045
>>96310505
>invent
heresy, everything has already been invented, they just share the knowledge
Anonymous No.96311049 >>96311144
>>96310868
no, gene-seeds aren't like genes or seeds
Anonymous No.96311144 >>96311446
>>96311049
Seriously? I figured all Space Marines should know the basics of Gene-seed to keep the Chapter alive if necessary.
Anonymous No.96311146 >>96311446
>>96310868
>Could the Marine use his Gene-Seed to create more Marines?
I think if he was an apothecary with some experience, yes theoretically
In most other cases I would say not.
Anonymous No.96311446 >>96311683
>>96311144
>>96311146
I think you're both misunderstanding the fundamental nature of the setting. Technology in the Imperium is not particularly well understood, even by the people most chiefly responsible for building and maintaining it. Everything is highly ritualized, there's no comprehension of why things work when you perform the ritual — think Jesse in Breaking Bad, he doesn't understand the chemistry he just knows that when you combine the chemicals from the blue barrel and the yellow barrel it makes meth.

And if you aren't initiated into that ritual, you don't even know what barrels you're supposed to use.

A battle brother might know that the gene seed is important to the future of the chapter. Much of the chapter's dogma will be about the importance of the gene seed and how it contains the genetic legacy of the Emperor and their Primarch. He'll know that when a brother dies that it's the responsibility of the apothecary to harvest that brother's gene seed, but he won't know any of the rituals that an apothecary performs. He may not even be able to extract his brother's progenoids, himself, because he doesn't know how to extract and store them without damaging them.

And that's not even getting into any of the deep ritual of cultivating the extracted and preserved gene seed into new organs for implantation into an aspirant, or any of the highly specific surgical procedures that have to be performed along the way. Even an apothecary may not be able to do much more than preserve the gene seed in the absence of any of the technology he doesn't understand to perform the rituals he only knows through doctrine and repetition. He'd be a lot less likely to even attempt it because he would know he doesn't have the tools he needs to perform the rituals.
Anonymous No.96311683 >>96311985
>>96311446
There are a lot of actual scientists. It's wrong to say they are total baboons. They understand physics and biology. Imperial medical tech is actually quite advanced. They know how electricity works. The educated among them aren't total idiots. Of course, they can't replicate things like the STCs or certain super tech or can only do it in very specific places. And it is highly ritualized.

But if you read admech stories they are indeed educated in science and mathematics. Innovation is only considered a sin by Orthodox followers of the Mechanicus, and different sects define innovation differently.
Anonymous No.96311695
>>96310868
Yes, absolutely. As long as he has the equipment and support to do so. Are you asking, on a feudal world with no equipment? No. But in a medical facility with support? A single marine can have his geneseed harvested to create new ones to make new marines and Techmarines and Apothocaries are usually the supervisors of these procedures.
Anonymous No.96311985
>>96311683
I'm sorry, I thought we were discussing whether or not a Space Marine could reconstitute a chapter using his own gene seed. Obviously Belisarius fucking Cawl is going to show up in Renaissance Europe and have a space program before Michelangelo paints the Last Supper.
Anonymous No.96312928
>>96310362
>using AI slop to verify your stance
Anonymous No.96315997 >>96316028 >>96316256 >>96316794
>>96309094
bruh talking about medieval rights like every royal line wasn't one generation away from robber Baron that went legit.

a space marine could not only inspire awe from their sheer size, but their ability to teach things like medicine and technology would inspire at least curiosity from many people. He doesn't need to conquer the world, he just needs to carve out a little niche on the world of loyalists and their children will serve him almost unquestioningly because he was a part of their lives from the beginning. after a few generations he will have both noble political authority and spiritual authority as he's a connection to the past and an immortal leader figure. sure, the culture of the marine matters a lot too.

An Ultramarine who actively studies leadership, industry and logistics will be far more prepared to assume command and start teaching people to improve than an Iron Hand who will probably start a one man war out of pettiness that they do not serve him immediately.

Space marines can't be poisoned, they are smart enough but to be trapped and they have knives that can slice a knight in medieval armor cleanly in half in a single swing. At some point, either through diplomacy or intimidation, they will have the opportunity to recruit followers.
Anonymous No.96316028 >>96316771
>>96315997
They can't teach shit, all they know is how to fight and they're only moderately better at it than normal humans.
>they have knives that can slice a knight in medieval armor cleanly in half in a single swing.
No they don't.
Anonymous No.96316163 >>96316256 >>96316338
The topic is stupid. Here's a better one:

If a Space Marine got stranded in the Warhammer Fantasy would he be able to even conquer the Empire, let alone the entire planet?
Anonymous No.96316256 >>96316297
>>96315997
>bruh talking about medieval rights like every royal line wasn't one generation away from robber Baron that went legit.
First, a robber baron isn't a baron of robbers, it's a baron who is a robber. He already is legit, he's just going overboard with his right to tax people and sometimes just outright robbing them.
Second, even if we go with the robber baron as an important criminal or whatever, that's the thing - the legitimacy of the seat and coat of arms and the crown grants you right to conduct evil within reason, and entrusts you to do so reasonably, while lacking it makes what you conduct reprehensible. It is the king's right and, far more importantly, OBLIGATION to execute criminals, but if somebody runs around doing that just because they got a longsword, they're breaking what due process there was in most medieval systems and are basically just a murderer who's targeting acceptable targets.
>Space marines can't be poisoned
That's presumptious of the nature of the medieval world, its fauna and flora, and that the poisoners wouldn't just upgrade to pouring molten lead in his ear instead of using poison.
>they are smart enough but to be trapped
Space Marines are routinely outsmarted by regular people, most often when they think they have the edge and are infallible. Space Marines routinely eat comical shit, especially due to overconfidence. They're human, fundamentally, and thus fallible.
> they have knives that can slice a knight in medieval armor cleanly in half in a single swing
Which is horrifying, and would lead to avoidance of melee by the important people, and a focus on ranged warfare against the Marine, on top of area-denial methods. A Space Marine that's stuck in a hole in the ground he did not see is a Space Marine who is not a threat.
>>96316163
He'd probably be able to rise to very high rank in the Empire by way of being a really big superhuman, but any sort of conquest would run into that magic would probably vaporize him eventually.
Anonymous No.96316297 >>96316451
>>96316256
Robber Barons weren't literal barons, retard.
>That's presumptious of the nature of the medieval world
No, it's not, it's the lore. Unless it's a Death World, nothing will work.
>the poisoners wouldn't just upgrade to pouring molten lead in his ear instead of using poison.
This would be about as feasible as simply nuking him.
>Space Marines are routinely outsmarted by regular people
No they aren't. Space Marines can be outsmarted by some of the most intelligent humans in the galaxy with knowledge vastly superior to the Marines'.
>Which is horrifying, and would lead to avoidance of melee by the important people, and a focus on ranged warfare against the Marine
Doesn't matter, still wouldn't work.
>B-but what if they dug a big pit?
What if they paint a tunnel on a cliff and have him run into it? You're running off cartoon logic. In truth anyone who realizes just how bad of an idea it is to be in melee with the Marine is or is about to be bisected.
Anonymous No.96316338
>>96316163
No. Just like a single chaos warrior can't.
Anonymous No.96316451 >>96316529 >>96316587
>>96316297
>Robber Barons weren't literal barons, retard.
They were, in fact, nobility of varying rank who used their position to overstep their rights, and act as robbers. Sir John Molyns of Stoke Poges was a knight, and he sure was a robber baron. I am deeply sorry if you cannot grasp what 'they were barons who robbed' meant in that context, I'll be sure to dumb down everything as much as possible next time, you pissbaby.
>No, it's not, it's the lore. Unless it's a Death World, nothing will work.
It's the lore that no medieval world in the Imperium has anything poisonous enough to kill an Astarters, nowhere at all?
>No they aren't. Space Marines can be outsmarted by some of the most intelligent humans in the galaxy with knowledge vastly superior to the Marines'.
Oan Mkoll might be a really, really good scout, but he's just a Scout Sergeant. That's just an example of a guy who is, certainly, skilled and smart, but not the best of the best of the best, outwitting a Space Marine very cleanly. Then we've got a whole lot of examples of regular humans killing Marines, including a fucking Word Bearer dying to a literal pointy stick to the throat.
>Doesn't matter, still wouldn't work.
Again: Word Bearer dies to a stick to the throat.
>What if they paint a tunnel on a cliff and have him run into it? You're running off cartoon logic.
So punji stick pits are cartoon logic now? Canon text has a Marine, and I quote
>misjudge the load bearing of some internal stairs
In a building, fall down three stories and get stuck there because he can't climb out. All it takes to disable a single Space Marine playing conqueror is the medieval force figuring out they have to use traps and overall control and modify the battlefield, which medieval armies understood perfectly well as a concept. Something a simple as luring the Marine into an area far more swampy than it seems would be a death sentence for the guy.
Anonymous No.96316529 >>96316548
>>96316451
No they weren't retard, look it up.
>It's the lore that no medieval world in the Imperium has anything poisonous enough to kill an Astarters
Correct.
>Oan Mkoll might be a really, really good scout, but he's just a Scout Sergeant. That's just an example of a guy who is, certainly, skilled and smart, but not the best of the best of the best
I quote,
"Oan Mkoll is the Scout Sergeant of the Tanith First-and-Only and one of the most skilled scouts of the Imperial Guard"
You played yourself, good job retard.
>Again
Nah.
>Word Bearer dies to a stick to the throat.
According to the guy who literally wrote this, he did not. The entire story was a lie because Chaos Marines are dicks, and the guy telling it (A Word Bearer) had just killed the Marine in question.
>Canon text has a Marine fall down once!
And?
>and get stuck there because he can't climb out
Incorrect, he can't get back up to the higher levels because the floors don't bear his weight. If he wanted to get out of the building entirely and not back up, it would take all of ten seconds.
Regardless, a brand new marine misjudging the load bearing capacity of a structure =/= "He would just jump into a big pit in the ground and get stuck because... Well just because!"
Anonymous No.96316548 >>96316562
>>96316529
>No they weren't retard, look it up.
I've looked it up, they were in fact nobility, knights, often, using their position to rob. Find me a historical work saying a robber baron is a a lowborn criminal.
>"Oan Mkoll is the Scout Sergeant of the Tanith First-and-Only and one of the most skilled scouts of the Imperial Guard"
What canon text are you quoting?
>According to the guy who literally wrote this, he did not. The entire story was a lie because Chaos Marines are dicks, and the guy telling it (A Word Bearer) had just killed the Marine in question.
So it's a lie that's believable enough to be told this way, without an instant 'but that's as likely as an regular black ant killing a guy' reaction. You not getting how this is a problem for your point is great.
>And?
And evidently a Marine making a reasonable misjudgment and ending up stuck is very possible.
>a brand new marine misjudging the load bearing capacity of a structure
A brand new Marine that's part of the Deathwing and struts around in Terminator armor. Yeah buddy.
Anonymous No.96316562 >>96316622
>>96316548
>I've looked it up
Nope, you were wrong again.
>Find me a historical work
Ahem: Robber baron is a term first applied by 19th century muckrakers and others as social criticism to certain wealthy, powerful, and unethical 19th-century American businessmen.
>What canon text are you quoting?
Why don't you learn how google works?
>So it's a lie that's believable enough to be told this way
No, because even the Marine he tells it to doubts it and thinks it's bullshit.
>And evidently a Marine making a reasonable misjudgment and ending up stuck
Nope, already debunked.
>and struts around in Terminator armor.
Kek, somebody didn't actually read what they posted did they? Eitherway it doesn't matter, you've invalidated your own argument. Better luck next thread.
Anonymous No.96316587 >>96316624
>>96316451
>misjudge the load bearing of some internal stairs
>In a building, fall down three stories and get stuck there because he can't climb out.
All he'd have to do is take his Terminator Armor (Read: Incredibly unwieldy and heavy armor, outside of Dawn of War 3) off and he'd have been free.
But y'know Terminator Armor is also an incredibly value chapter relic, so they can't just leave it behind.

It's also silly to think a Marine would ever NOT be the one choosing the battlefield. One Genetically Augmented Supersoldier is faster than an entire army is, my guy.
Anonymous No.96316622 >>96316627 >>96316649
>>96316562
>Ahem: Robber baron is a term first applied by 19th century muckrakers and others as social criticism to certain wealthy, powerful, and unethical 19th-century American businessmen.
Oh my god, you are an imbecile. Terms can have several different meanings. In the subject of medieval history, 'robber baron' is in fact a nobleman who robs people, by arms in the most direct sense, but there's if you'd like also the toll road option.
>Why don't you learn how google works?
Why don't you, since you're incapable of even googling the wikipedia for what robber baron is in feudal condittions?
>Kek, somebody didn't actually read what they posted did they? Eitherway it doesn't matter, you've invalidated your own argument. Better luck next thread.
Here's the excerpt. If you want you can say you meant some other instance wherein a marine falls through the stairs. That'll do wonders for your argument that marines are infallible.
Anonymous No.96316624 >>96316633
>>96316587
He can't pick his battlefields forever, if his goal is to take over a kingdom, for instance. Eventually he'd need to ensure the enemy's king or whoever else is dead, and that means coming for them.
Anonymous No.96316627 >>96316636
>>96316622
>Oh m y god, you are an imbecile
Ad hominem detected, concession accepted. You didn't know what it meant lmao
>Why don't you
Tu quoque.
>Here's the excerpt
>Entirely and completely proves my point
Kek, well you've been putting your foot in your mouth with every post so I shouldn't be surprised you did it again.
Anonymous No.96316633 >>96316648
>>96316624
>He can't pick his battlefields forever, if his goal is to take over a kingdom, for instance.
He certainly wouldn't need to, as soon enough he would have plenty of forces of his own to call upon. And as should be obvious, primitives have no real ability to take on armies that use modern tactics and strategies.
>Eventually he'd need to ensure the enemy's king or whoever else is dead, and that means coming for them.
Being the aggressor in a war means YOU get to choose the battlefields.
Anonymous No.96316636 >>96316640
>>96316627
>Ad hominem detected, concession accepted
You're the one who started calling people retards because you didn't know 'robber baron' isn't just a Victorian era term. That's the level of discussion you offered, I went with it, being very accomodating. And if you wish, fine, I shall accept your concession.
>>Entirely and completely proves my point
Well, the excerpt clearly says Daellon wears a Terminator suit and that's what you disagreed with in the earlier post.
I think you can do better bait than this. Try and summon the local lord autist, argue with him about local lords. And local barons. And local robbers.
Anonymous No.96316640 >>96316664
>>96316636
>You're the one who
Who has the facts and is completely correct. You're just a mong who didn't know what robber baron meant and are angry and coping because you were utterly wrong.
>Well, the excerpt clearly says
Exactly what I said kek. You struggle to read and it shows. Now stay mad.
Anonymous No.96316648 >>96316656 >>96316668
>>96316633
>Being the aggressor in a war means YOU get to choose the battlefields.
Not if the task is specifically killing the legitimate rulers who are sitting in a specific spot. Sure, he can run around chevaucheeing settlements, but that'd still mean needing to eventually siege down a castle that's set up with the anticipation of a sieging force, on top of improvements meant to combat a five hundred pound gorilla-sized space racist. I can see the Marine making it work, but I think you should in turn acknowledge that there's many, many ways for him to mess up this careful dance of feudal politics and warfare.
Anonymous No.96316649 >>96316664
>>96316622
...Where in this does it supposedly say that the Marine here is experienced with using Terminator armor?
I'd figure making an obvious error like that would be direct evidence of the opposite, but I don't think inferring facts will work well for thirdies.
Anonymous No.96316656 >>96316683
>>96316648
>Not if the task is specifically killing the legitimate rulers who are sitting in a specific spot.
Anon, anon, Kings do not sit on a throne 24/7. Monarchs are always on the move, rarely sitting at home, and have things to do.
More importantly, if a King is stuck in a town being besieged, it's kind of just a matter of time until he loses anyways. Most sieges didn't end in assaults, but surrender. This is really elementary stuff.
Anonymous No.96316664 >>96316675 >>96316692
>>96316640
> the excerpt that says Daellon wears Terminator armor actually says he is't wearing Terminator armor
Uh-huh. Here's a (you).
>>96316649
Well, he's part of the Deathwing. I guess it is possible he's in his first outing in it or whatever, despite being good enough for the Deathwing, but you make the call if you think it's plausible.
Anonymous No.96316668 >>96316696
>>96316648
>improvements meant to combat a five hundred pound gorilla-sized space racist
Well that wouldn't work. They'd need to prepare to combat a 2,000 kilogram space racist.
Anonymous No.96316675 >>96316688
>>96316664
>He still can't read what I posted
Lmao that's embarrassing. Please quote the post where I said he wasn't wearing Terminator armor.
Oh wait, you can't.
Anonymous No.96316683 >>96316733
>>96316656
>Anon, anon, Kings do not sit on a throne 24/7. Monarchs are always on the move, rarely sitting at home, and have things to do.
Yes, important things like 'do not die to a giant gorilla of a man trying to kill me'. Moving into a defensible position the marine would need to attack is one tactic he could employ while being out and about, building up a force to combat the Marine and whoever he cobbles together. Ultimately, the Marine needs to attack eventually, and any attack is an attack when he's a known quantity.
Anonymous No.96316688 >>96316711
>>96316675
>and struts around in Terminator armor.
>>Kek, somebody didn't actually read what they posted did they?
I guess you were correct - he wasn't strutting about in Terminator armor, he was sitting in a hole in Terminator armor, because he fell through the stairs, while wearing Terminator armor, and couldn't get out, because of his Terminator armor. You're so clever.
Anonymous No.96316692 >>96316707
>>96316664
>First outing
Even a rookie marine will have had thousands of outings, anon. I don't think you understand the setting well enough and have gotten confused by the terminology being used here. There are three distinct possibilities:
1. Daellon is new and not used to Terminator Armor, which is very different from Power Armor.
2. Daellon is used to using Terminator Armor, but has never fought in a decrepit and crumbling structure with it before where his own weight was a serious hazard.
3. Daellon is just a dumbass.
But regardless, none of it supports the idea that you could just get a random Marine to fall into a Punji Pit (Or that doing so would work, since it wouldn't even scratch his armor).
Anonymous No.96316696
>>96316668
So THAT'S why the Marine is ultimately going to be superior, he's privy to the forbidden, Dark Age of Technology cognitohazard that is the metric system.
Anonymous No.96316707 >>96316733 >>96316761
>>96316692
That's my point, though - a clearly experienced Marine, veteran enough to be put in the Deathwing, and entrusted with a suit of Termie armor, still is capable of making mistakes like that and, thus, outwitted by mortal humans who understand the concept of 'heavy thing break fragile object'. There' still a fundamental error of 'the Marine didn't manage to run the mental math', which applies in an instance of Marine Generico falling into a booby trap.
>But regardless, none of it supports the idea that you could just get a random Marine to fall into a Punji Pit (Or that doing so would work, since it wouldn't even scratch his armor).
The specific concept isn't so much as an actual punji pit, and more just the base idea of the marine falling into a well enough disguised pit, or, for instance, following a target onto stairs or a bridge fragile enough to collapse underneath him. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that if he, a 80-kilo man, barely can walk across a bridge without it falling, then the giant in gleaming armor would collapse it definitely. Fucking Battle on the Ice tactics.
Anonymous No.96316711 >>96316715
>>96316688
>I guess you were correct
No need to guess retard, I know I am. You just suck ass at reading lmao
Anonymous No.96316715 >>96316716
>>96316711
Here's another (you). It's on the house buddy.
Anonymous No.96316716 >>96316719
>>96316715
Seethe.
Anonymous No.96316719 >>96316724
>>96316716
Oh yes I am very angry you dismantled me by agreeing with me entirely.
Anonymous No.96316724 >>96316730
>>96316719
>Y-you agreed with me >:(
Cope, and then dilate.
Anonymous No.96316730 >>96316735
>>96316724
Do you often imagine trannies sticking phallic objects into themselves? Is that a recurring mental image and piece of wording for you?
Anonymous No.96316733 >>96316753 >>96316761
>>96316683
Nnno, I don't think most monarchs are worried about gorilla-sized men appearing out of nowhere and killing them, anon.
>Moving into a defensible position the marine would need to attack is one tactic he could employ while being out and about
Not really? Do you envision some kind of bizarro world where every King has thousands of ready craftsmen to construct and deconstruct pits traps on all sides of him wherever he should walk? Sorry, it's just silly.
More to the point though, it's also not relevant. A King on the defensive is a King who is losing. And a King who has to sit and hunker down, has already lost. His only hope is someone else rescuing him at that point, just as in real life wars.
>building up a force to combat the Marine and whoever he cobbles together. Ultimately, the Marine needs to attack eventually, and any attack is an attack when he's a known quantity.
Also not really. If you look at many IRL wars where someone could choose the battlefield, digging big trap pits was quite uncommon until more modern warfare when the manpower and specialized soldiers were available to make fieldworks a common battlefield feature. And even then, it was more uncommon than not until we industrialized.

>>96316707
>That's my point, though
Your point is that your entire take away is irrelevant and that you drew a single conclusion without supporting evidence?
>a clearly experienced Marine
Again, we don't have anything saying so, but evidence to the contrary.
>There' still a fundamental error of 'the Marine didn't manage to run the mental math'
We actually don't know if this is the case or not either, and it doesn't seem to be. Telemenus clearly knows already that Daellon's weight can't be supported, while Daellon simply does not. This would indicate that Daellon just... Couldn't know in the first place that it couldn't. So it's moot.
Anonymous No.96316735
>>96316730
Never, why did you?
Anonymous No.96316753 >>96316780
>>96316733
>Not really? Do you envision some kind of bizarro world where every King has thousands of ready craftsmen to construct and deconstruct pits traps on all sides of him wherever he should walk?
Not really - I envision a prolonged campaign where the Marine's taking a realistic enough amount of time to build up a force to wage war with, and his opposition accordingly has time to fight him, lose, and start to try to figure out guerilla tactics to beat the gorilla.
>digging big trap pits was quite uncommon until more modern warfare when the manpower and specialized soldiers were available to make fieldworks a common battlefield feature. And even then, it was more uncommon than not until we industrialized.
The baseline concept of 'dig pit to disrupt the enemy movement' was fairly understood and used. Don't want cavalry rushing you? Get on a hill, dig ditches. Want to slow down somebody's advance? Ditches. Want to somewhat direct the fight? Ditches. The marine is fundamentally the same sort of issue as a cavalryman in full plate, just way worse to deal with, and he could be dealt with in similar ways.

>Again, we don't have anything saying so, but evidence to the contrary.
He's on the Deathwing, though. It's a clear mark of some sort of considerable by Marine standards competence, this particular fuckup aside. I can't even muster up the energy to clown on the Dark Angels for having this guy in their elite force, in this instance - him being in the Deathwing suggests that even veteran Marines can fuck up by misjudging their equipment, themselves, the terrain, or whatever else. Which is what the original poster I replied to disagrees with, because he's got a fanfic vision of 40k in mind in which Marines are as superhuman as they're wanked in the most wank of wank.
Anonymous No.96316761 >>96316774
>Yeah, I'll start going on screeds about trannies, that'll show him!
Embarrassing.

>>96316707
>>96316733
(Cont'd)
>The specific concept isn't so much as an actual punji pit, and more just the base idea of the marine falling into a well enough disguised pit, or, for instance, following a target onto stairs or a bridge fragile enough to collapse underneath him.
These are highly specific conditions that the Marine could very easily just never have to engage with. And, moreover, that probably wouldn't work. Daellon survives a three meter drop apparently unscathed and still mobile. If you dropped him into a pit lined with cultists, he'd still just kill them all.
And with only medieval weaponry and tools to work with, a Marine in Power Armor is pretty much invincible. It'd be significantly easier to destroy an M1 Abrams with nothing but a rusty knife.

There's also the problem that this hypothetical isn't supported with examples. The one you gave is of a Marine in Terminator Armor (Slow, unwieldy, many times heavier), and it's not elaborated as to why he actually didn't know the floor couldn't hold him (Did he just not know the structure's integrity? Was the floor damaged? What did it actually look like? Etc.)
Nothing says that a Marine in normal Power Armor wouldn't have realized that it can't hold him, for example. Or that he couldn't move away once he noticed it wasn't properly supporting him. They aren't slow, after all.
Anonymous No.96316771 >>96316788
>>96316028
>they have knives that can slice a knight in medieval armor cleanly in half in a single swing.
>No they don't.

Combat Knives are stated as having a monomelecular edge and being constructed from Hypersteel. Gameplay wise, they have a strength of 4 which is the same toughness that Marines themselves possess. In stories they have been used to cut through vehicle plating, a dude in regular plate armor would get destroyed.
Anonymous No.96316774 >>96316792
>>96316761
>Embarrassing.
I know, right? So disappointing. And we didn't even summon the local lord poster with all this.

>These are highly specific conditions that the Marine could very easily just never have to engage with. And, moreover, that probably wouldn't work. Daellon survives a three meter drop apparently unscathed and still mobile. If you dropped him into a pit lined with cultists, he'd still just kill them all.
A Marine that is stuck in a hole is a Marine that's not going anywhere in a reasonable amount of time. What's he going to do? Dig his way out? Hope he can collapse the sides of the wall, and try to avoid being buried under the rock and earth? Sounds like it'll take enough time for him to be basically buried alive. Or they do him like that one dipshit who got caught under rubble and had his throat slit repeatedly until he finally died.
Anonymous No.96316780 >>96316794
>>96316753
>Not really - I envision a prolonged campaign where the Marine's taking a realistic enough amount of time to build up a force to wage war with, and his opposition accordingly has time to fight him, lose, and start to try to figure out guerilla tactics to beat the gorilla.
Guerilla tactics aren't really an effective means for a state to fight a conquering force. IRL they're used by remnants of collapsed states and rebel groups who have no alternatives.

>The baseline concept of 'dig pit to disrupt the enemy movement' was fairly understood and used. Don't want cavalry rushing you? Get on a hill, dig ditches.
Except... There are countless battles where they didn't have time to dig any ditches. And uh, we're not talking about digging ditches, but digging specific trap pits that would be able to contain a humongous man who can probably jump out of what we'd consider an inescapable pit, if not just smash his way out by collapsing a wall.
>He's on the Deathwing, though.
Again, this does not support the idea that he's used to using Terminator armor, or used to using it in these conditions. The Deathwing does not have a minimum age or "battles fought" requirement. They are just regarded as trusted and proven combatants.
>Which is what the original poster I replied to disagrees with
Where? Because I see nothing saying this. And again, the excerpt itself doesn't really support any of the claims you made besides, uh, a marine (in terminator armor) fell down once.
Anonymous No.96316788
>>96316771
>Gameplay wise, they have a strength of 4
One higher than a human with a bayonet. So no, they don't.
Anonymous No.96316792 >>96316814
>>96316774
I don't think you know.

>A Marine that is stuck in a hole is a Marine that's not going anywhere in a reasonable amount of time.
What's a "reasonable amount of time"?
He could jump out. Or climb out pretty easily. Cause one of the walls of said hole to collapse and ramp out (Being buried isn't a worry, he's more than strong enough to dig his way out, and power armor ensures there's not even a time limit on doing so.)

Again, you just, don't have much here that really supports you. Or an understanding of how war works. Or how medieval society functions. Or the lore of 40k. I feel like this isn't worth continuing if you're ignorant on the subject matter, and also believe you aren't. There's not much you can add to a hypothetical scenario if you come to it empty handed.
Anonymous No.96316794 >>96316820
>>96316780
>Except... There are countless battles where they didn't have time to dig any ditches.
Which is sure an issue - unless the enemy is a a singular Marine who can only be in one spot, has a limit to his speed, and has specific targets of interest he'd be out to kill.
>And uh, we're not talking about digging ditches, but digging specific trap pits that would be able to contain a humongous man who can probably jump out of what we'd consider an inescapable pit, if not just smash his way out by collapsing a wall.
Collapsing the pit of a wall is a great way for a Marine to end up buried alive under rubble.
>The Deathwing does not have a minimum age or "battles fought" requirement. They are just regarded as trusted and proven combatants.
This particular trusted and proven combatant evidently made a comical mistake, which goes fairly against
>>96315997
This guy saying they're smart enough to not be trapped. Again, if Daellon was chasing after a target into that building, he'd be officially dumb enough to fall for a trap. A White Scar was outwitted by a Scout Sergeant. They're not infallible, and with enough time and attempts the Marine that personally takes to the field will eventually be felled.
Anonymous No.96316800 >>96316929 >>96330203
A marine is canonically not as strong or tough as an ogryn and yet you'll somehow never find anyone saying an ogryn can take on 100 thousand dudes naked and alone.
Anonymous No.96316814 >>96316869
>>96316792
Can you explain the precise logistics of a Space Marine digging himself out while buried under tonnes of rock and soil? Keeping in mind that Algol died exactly like that, for instance. Or the instance Marines got buried alive, forever, inescapably, in concrete, even though they had freedom of movement to dig if they'd like.
>Again, you just, don't have much here that really supports you.
Yeah my guy - excerpts don't matter, historical works don't matter. In this thread robber barons aren't barons and Space Marines are incapable of mistakes, except when they are capable, but in that case it's not representative of anything, unlike imaginary scenarios wherein the Marine wages a war exactly the way he wants, on his terms, never being forced to accept a battleground or follow a target, and always knows exactly how well a medieval building can support him and his weight. Those are representative, accurate and factual.
>There's not much you can add to a hypothetical scenario if you come to it empty handed.
Feel free to provide book excerpts to back up your points. I'm kind of the only one to do that thus far.
Anonymous No.96316820 >>96316828 >>96316831
>>96316794
>Which is sure an issue - unless the enemy is a a singular Marine
Not at all, that makes it an infinitely more complicated issue. Preparing battlefields and traps and all that only really works when you're dealing with armies.
One guy can move faster than any army can, and is much, much harder to keep track of to boot. A lone Marine waging war on a Kingdom would have all the advantages that modern Guerilla fighters do, but still have self-contained combat prowess that conventional forces have.

>Collapsing the pit of a wall is a great way for a Marine to end up buried alive under rubble.
As we covered, not an issue.
>This particular trusted and proven combatant evidently made a comical mistake
As we covered, we don't have enough details to draw any useful conclusions, and none we can draw currently are helpful (But instead, contradictory to) your claims.

>This guy saying they're smart enough to not be trapped
I mean, he's right.
>Again, if Daellon was chasing after a target into that building, he'd be officially dumb enough to fall for a trap
If it were a trap, sure. But... It's not a trap.
>A White Scar was outwitted by a Scout Sergeant
One of the best (If not simply the best) Scout Sergeants to ever live, from one of the best regiments, was able to (sort of) outwit a White Scar, sure. Unfortunately, our Medieval Earth-like world does not have the best Scout Sergeant in the Galaxy at their disposal.
Anonymous No.96316828 >>96316902
>>96316820
>As we covered, not an issue.
Just saying 'it isn't an issue' when there's a canonical instance of a fairly experienced Marine dying under rubble in a pathetically humiliating way is a fairly silly tactic.
Anonymous No.96316831 >>96316902
>>96316820
>One guy can move faster than any army can, and is much, much harder to keep track of to boot
that's not true, are you retarded? an army can spread the fuck out and find him easy peasy
Anonymous No.96316869 >>96316898
>>96316814
>Can you explain the precise logistics of a Space Marine digging himself out while buried under tonnes of rock and soil?
Well, if you got the Marine down an impossible deep and steep pit that would have actual tonnes of rock and soil fall on him...
Yeah he could still just dig out. They can lift several tonnes when in armor, you know.
But ah, if you dropped something much denser and heavier yet on him? He might be pinned down. But unfortunately, that's going to require feats of engineering and construction that aren't really possible with such technology, so again, a moot point.
>Yeah my guy - excerpts don't matter, historical works don't matter.
As we covered, none of these things support you. You've mostly just embarrassed yourself by clearly not understand definitions (Like thinking 'Robber Barons' was a literal word, and not knowing that it was made in the 19th century by Americans).
>Feel free to provide book excerpts to back up your points.
We don't have any novels where Marines take over entire feudal worlds (yet) sadly, just ones where they get off worlds after being stranded. And fight off hundreds of (very well-armed by medieval standards and entirely fearless) people. And bring down big ass stone towers with their bare hands. And shrug off having a fuck off huge tank slam down on them. And slap bullets out of the air. And casually run over twice as fast as Usain Bolt. And fight for weeks without resting.

Otherwise, you're free to go read further lore on how Marines work whenever you want.
Anonymous No.96316871 >>96316904 >>96316927
>>96285509 (OP)
No and he would die to some random peasant stabbing him with a spear.
Anonymous No.96316898 >>96316910 >>96316919
>>96316869
> an impossible deep and steep pit that would have actual tonnes of rock and soil fall on him...
You don't need an 'impossible deep and steep pit' to fit tonnes of rock into it. Rock is kind of very dense.
>Yeah he could still just dig out.
Shame that one guy didn't dig out and got his throat slit. Repeatedly. And could do nothing about it. I am sure that instance is as usual not indicative of anything, as we can tell off of you carefully ignoring it.
>As we covered, none of these things support you. You've mostly just embarrassed yourself by clearly not understand definitions (Like thinking 'Robber Barons' was a literal word, and not knowing that it was made in the 19th century by Americans).
Much like, for instance, 'Kievan Rus' or 'Byzantium', it's a historical science invention made in the 18th-19th century by Germans to describe a Middle Ages phenomenon, and Americans borrowed it to describe a modern, to them, phenomenon. I don't get the point of farthuffing about this specific thing when you are this out of your depth and can only smugly chuckle while being very wrong, go back to screaming 'seethe', it fits you more and works smoother.
>Otherwise, you're free to go read further lore on how Marines work whenever you want.
I'd say you're also free to do so, to read plentiful excerpts of Marines getting outwitted by regular humans, killed by regular humans, caught in dumbest of traps and overall jobbing in a comical way, but let's be honest here, if you had such freedom, you surely would be reading right now and bringing us excerpts.
Anonymous No.96316902 >>96316906 >>96316908
>>96316828
>>96316831
>Just saying 'it isn't an issue' when there's a canonical instance of a fairly experienced Marine dying under rubble
There are no instances of a Marine collapsing in the walls of a small pit and then being buried to death by it.
>that's not true, are you retarded?
Except... It is true?
Putting aside that Marines can cover hundreds of meters of distance in mere seconds at a full sprint, in real life armies get slower the larger they become, as logistics become more and more of a constraint.
For example, In 1414, King Henry V marched his army as fast as he could to try and outmaneuver the Frenchies, and was averaging 9 miles a day.
Ordinary, reasonably fit human beings can travel 30+ miles a day for weeks on end, and if they really try they can nearly manage 200 miles (The record is 198 miles within 24 hours).
A Marine? He could make that pace without breaking a sweat.
>an army can spread the fuck out and find him easy peasy
Not really. Spreading out just means they're going to die very very easily, as opposed to very easily, because you can bet that the Marine will find them first.
Anonymous No.96316904
>>96316871
Yup, T4 Toughness ain't shit
Anonymous No.96316906 >>96316913
>>96316902
>this fucking retard has never heard of a manhunt
is your handler ok with you posting here?
Anonymous No.96316908 >>96316913
>>96316902
>There are no instances of a Marine collapsing in the walls of a small pit and then being buried to death by it.
Ah, so it is now a small pit and not an impossibly deep and steep pit. Those pesky medieval pits, shapeshifting under the indominable will of the Son of Guilliman or whoever the Marine is the son of.
Anonymous No.96316910 >>96316941
>>96316898
>You don't need an 'impossible deep and steep pit' to fit tonnes of rock into it
Nor did I say you would. Please learn to read,
>that would have actual tonnes of rock and soil fall on him
It would need to be extremely deep, and extremely steep, for a Marine to instantly bury himself by collapsing a wall beneath actual tonnes. And mind you, he'd still be fine.

>Shame that one guy didn't dig out
Well anon, as we've established, the scenario you're describing above never happened. What you're probably referring to is a situation where a Marine was caught under a fallen building or something.

>Much like, for instance, 'Kievan Rus' or 'Byzantium', it's a historical science invention made in the 18th-19th century by Germans to describe a Middle Ages phenomenon
Sorry, but that's not true. Robber Baron is a term made up by Americans, to describe other Americans. It did not in any way apply to actual medieval Barons.

>I'd say you're also free to do so
Well, I did. And my conclusion is that the Marine solos the planet pretty easily.
Anonymous No.96316913 >>96316941
>>96316906
>>96316908
>Ah, so it is now a small pit and not an impossibly deep and steep pit.
I mean, you did specify it had to be just a pit that could be dug. The most you can do with that technology is a small one, as you've already admitted to.
I don't know why this confuses you. Bad reading comprehension? Brown skin? We'll probably never know.
Anonymous No.96316919
>>96316898
>le everyone on 4chinz is da same person!!!
Kek, rent free
Anonymous No.96316927 >>96316940 >>96317162
>>96316871
and the exact same thing would happen even if the marine was wearing power armor according to the helsreach novel
Anonymous No.96316929 >>96316935
>>96316800
>A marine is canonically not as strong or tough as an ogryn
They're tougher actually.
Anonymous No.96316935 >>96316937
>>96316929
lol
Anonymous No.96316937
>>96316935
And?
Anonymous No.96316940
>>96316927
Only if the thing stabbing him is an Ork.
Anonymous No.96316941 >>96316954 >>96316966
>>96316910
>It would need to be extremely deep, and extremely steep, for a Marine to instantly bury himself by collapsing a wall beneath actual tonnes. And mind you, he'd still be fine.
Fifteen feet of rock would bury the Marine inescapably already.
>Well anon, as we've established, the scenario you're describing above never happened. What you're probably referring to is a situation where a Marine was caught under a fallen building or something.
If only you could read and find out more about this instance.
>Sorry, but that's not true. Robber Baron is a term made up by Americans, to describe other Americans. It did not in any way apply to actual medieval Barons.
If you'd like some reading material, I suggest State and Nobility in Early Modern Germany: The Knightly Feud in Franconia, 1440–1567 by Zmora. There's an easy dunk for you to use, if you just go and read a book. You'll do that, right?
>Well, I did. And my conclusion is that the Marine solos the planet pretty easily.
Unless rocks fall on him and somebody slits his throat ten times in a row.
>>96316913
>The most you can do with that technology is a small one
Wells did not exist in the Middle Ages, got it.
Anonymous No.96316954 >>96316963 >>96333447
>>96316941
>Fifteen feet of rock would bury the Marine inescapably already.
Depends on the width and volume because fifteen cubic feet wouldn't, no. But it's moot because nobody is moving that much weight around on short notice, especially not primitive human beings.
>If only you could read
Please, stop talking to yourself.
>If you'd like some reading material
Anon, you're the one who needs some reading material seeing as how you don't understand what words mean. That or you may just need a couple dozen therapy sessions.
>Unless rocks fall on him
Depends on how big the rocks are. But it'd be beyond the capacity of medieval humans to move quickly, that's for sure.
>Wells did not exist in the Middle Ages
Where you got that idea from is anybody's guess, and I'm guessing you have no idea what a pit is either, and that's getting you all turned around and confused, that right?
Anonymous No.96316963
>>96316954
Do you need me to point you to where you can find that book I mentioned, Anon?
Anonymous No.96316966 >>96316970
>>96316941
>I suggest State and Nobility in Early Modern Germany: The Knightly Feud in Franconia, 1440–1567 by Zmora
This is straight off Wikipedia lmao
Anonymous No.96316970 >>96316974
>>96316966
The fact I gotta suggest it to the guy is agonizing. But, hey, avid bookreaders can't Google.
Anonymous No.96316974 >>96316983 >>96317022
>>96316970
Oh my god you really did just google the wikipedia page and just picked out a random source on it hahahaha holy shit that's pathetic
Anonymous No.96316983 >>96316990 >>96317002
>>96316974
It's the most accessible source possible, takes three minutes to find from looking up the term 'robber baron' and even that I have to spoonfeed to the guy. This after the Daellon Terminator armor incident is majestic. Isn't this board great?
Anonymous No.96316990
>>96316983
Pffft nigga had to look up wikipedia and just blurt out a random reference to go all "bro im book smart, i read totally"
Anonymous No.96316995 >>96316999 >>96317019
An aggressive and tyrannical space marine would eventually get overwhelmed and killed. A more diplomatic space marine might assimilate and forget about the imperium.
Anonymous No.96316999 >>96317017
>>96316995
Begone, reasonable take haver, we are arguing about whether the medieval world can figure out how to dig a pit deep enough to trap a Marine in. Wells do not apply.
Anonymous No.96317002 >>96317004
>>96316983
>This after the Daellon Terminator armor incident
You mean when you had to stop posting for half an hour to look for a pdf?
Anonymous No.96317004 >>96317007
>>96317002
>sourcing is... le BAD, actually
ok
Anonymous No.96317007 >>96317014
>>96317004
Your source was googling it, looking at reddit, and then hastily looking for the pdf only to realize it did the opposite of prove your point.
You're dumb and that's why you lost.
Anonymous No.96317014 >>96317046
>>96317007
My point was Daellon wore Terminator armor. The counterpoint was a guy smugly chuckling at the idea of Daellon wearing Terminator armor, probably because he misremembered the excerpt or he himself hurriedly looked it up on reddit. The source says he wore Terminator armor.
Feels like a strange situation.
>you lost
oh youre one those types. ok buddy
Anonymous No.96317017
>>96316999
Thanks for the chuckle.
Anonymous No.96317019 >>96317028
>>96316995
This is pretty much it. It's all up to whether the marine can contain a righteous spergout and not get his T4 ass shot to death by a few musketmen.
Anonymous No.96317022
>>96316974
Yes, because any source will tell you that "nobility" in europe was something you got by killing enough people. There werent any nobles 100kya, every single noble family was built through feudalism and having the power to enforce a tax. Anon went in found a source. They don't need to spend 4 years looking for something sufficiently obscure for tastes because every source agrees. Literally entry level encyclopedias prove you a retard.
Anonymous No.96317028 >>96317036 >>96317044
>>96317019
outside of gameplay abstraction ceramite armor is musket proof. Fuck, modern kevlar armor and period steel plate are musket proof. Also I thought this was a feudal world. I think of the medieval world the only thing that can really take him out is a trebuchet.
Anonymous No.96317036
>>96317028
Outside of gameplay abstraction ceramite armor can protect as much or as little as the author wants at any given moment. So if you think about it it's not all that different from the way it works in the game.
Anonymous No.96317044 >>96317068
>>96317028
Warhammer is a game. There is no "outside of gameplay abstraction", fucking moron.
Anonymous No.96317046
>>96317014
I thought everyone on here was the exact same person? What happened dude?
Anonymous No.96317062
I've been also thinking even if the space marine garnered some supporters for his cause helped them built small arms ammunition and some basic modern tech eventually there would be defectors and spies would be everywhere and this tech and blueprints would eventually fall into the hands of his enemies to be reverse engineered this would eventually be too much for him and his supporters to handle. This would require great industrial advancement and I don't think he could do it. Unless he like the emperor laid low for hundreds of years in the shadows but space marines are roided up fanatical zealous morons no better than the thunder warriors so I doubt he would do that.
Anonymous No.96317068 >>96317347
>>96317044
oh. so the moon can be killed by enough guardsmen shooting at it and rolling crits on their hit and wound rolls. Got it.

Pack it up folks! Threads over! Everything can kill everything with good enough dice rolls and thus noone can beat anyone else or accomplish anything ever!
Anonymous No.96317162 >>96317329 >>96317339 >>96317380
>>96316927
Or the 3e codex.
Anonymous No.96317329
>>96317162
KWAB
Anonymous No.96317339 >>96317344
>>96317162
I don't think peasants would have Daemon weapons.
Anonymous No.96317344 >>96317348
>>96317339
It wasn't a daemon weapon. It was a broken, mundane, lance that had been shattered earlier in the battle.
Anonymous No.96317347
>>96317068
The moon doesn't have stats, nogames.
Anonymous No.96317348 >>96317355
>>96317344
mundane lances have glowing blades apparently.
Anonymous No.96317355 >>96317363
>>96317348
The Prophet was a CSM. The guy who shoved a lance into the SM and killed him was just a regular dude. You can go read the story yourself.
Anonymous No.96317363 >>96317374
>>96317355
Oh so the guy who killed him was a CSM, because nowhere does it say the lance killed him.
Anonymous No.96317374 >>96317378
>>96317363
Except for the part which explicitly says the SM was felled after being stabbed by a fucking stick. The CSM just cut the SM open to get the geneseed. If you notice the SM didn't resist, which he would have if he was still alive.
Anonymous No.96317376 >>96317379
If Space Marines died as easily as some speds ITT think they would've gone extinct a decade into the Great Crusade.
Anonymous No.96317378 >>96317390
>>96317374
Except for the part where it doesn't say he was "felled".
Anonymous No.96317379
>>96317376
Why?
Anonymous No.96317380 >>96317390
>>96317162
>I struck him where his armor was twisted and melted
>then a guy with a demon weapon actually killed him

jeez, you thought this was in your favor? yikes.
Anonymous No.96317386 >>96317392
It's kind of like how in Helsreach it's actually Orks killing Marines and not just "some guys". Inconvenient facts get ignored.
Anonymous No.96317390 >>96317396
>>96317378
Do you think a guy will knock over a space marine by running at him with a stick? That's sad. I guess they are weaker than some fucking rednecks who joust on atvs.
>>96317380
>y-yikes
>a space marine being run through by a regular human is totally good for my side chud
Anonymous No.96317392 >>96317400
>>96317386
orks were only as strong as guardsmen when that novel came out though
Anonymous No.96317396 >>96317408
>>96317390
>No rebuttal
I cast Acceptius Concessius
Anonymous No.96317400 >>96317405
>>96317392
Orks were actually stronger than space marines when that novel came out.
Anonymous No.96317405 >>96317424
>>96317400
they had 3 strength, marines had 4
Anonymous No.96317408
>>96317396
Dw anon I accept you're retarded.
Anonymous No.96317424 >>96317428 >>96317480
>>96317405
In what? Wait a sec are you a no life loser who plays the wargame?
Anonymous No.96317428
>>96317424
a guardsman with a spear can punch through power armor
Anonymous No.96317480 >>96317484
>>96317424
Yeah he seems to be buttmad that his least favorite faction is strong in the lore and consistently strong on the tabletop.
Anonymous No.96317484
>>96317480
marines are my favorite faction though
Anonymous No.96317523
>>96285509 (OP)
Best chance is there are some orks on the planet and he fights them enoguh times that they start having mecs who build some spaceships out of scrap for marine to hijack.
Anonymous No.96317857 >>96317875 >>96317924 >>96317952 >>96317961
>>96285509 (OP)
>Taking a 1500s tech world over?
Yes, he would be superhuman Timerlane. Remember that empires were forged by mere thiefs and shepards and the average would be able to conquer easily within a human lifetime. The Deathwatch stats are the best we have for most accurate estimations what the difference would be between a human warrior and an astartes. And in the end end the power armor wearing super-giant couldn't be harmed by anything but a cannon but even then he would be able to survive it and kill its shooter,
>Communications and space travel?
The average space marine of the average chapter could do it in time. Not warp travel but he could built it up to become a system wide civilization within a few centuries. The highest technologies of the Imperium would be impossible but a tech level similiar to ours sure. If he would be a tech marine even beyond that would be possible, such as fusion reactors and advanced imperial tech. It would need more time to set up a industry but astartes are immortal thus it would be possible.
Anonymous No.96317875 >>96317938
>>96317857
He would be timerlane iwth +1 strengh and +1 toughness lol he dies to an arrow
Anonymous No.96317924
>>96317857
Got you to shut up like a biatch samefag
Anonymous No.96317938 >>96317946 >>96317949 >>96317952 >>96317961 >>96317970
>>96317875
Unnatural Strength and Thoughness (x2), twice or even thrice the life points of human soldiers and power armor makes him means that all primitive weapons can't harm him at all. Even a cannon ball wouldn't damage his armor but make him just angrier. Add his increased skills, talents and characterstics and he could slaughter primitive armies alone. The Astartes series is a good insight how that would work. His physical poweress alone wouldn't of course not mean the conquest of a world, it is enhanced mind, psycho-conditioned and enhanced which would make him supreme leader and warlord.
Anonymous No.96317946
>>96317938
nope +1 strength +1 touhgness, that's all
Anonymous No.96317949
>>96317938
Meanwhile in reality Space Mariens are threatened by WW2 era small arms.
Anonymous No.96317952 >>96317976
>>96317857
>>96317938
In the rpg any retard can roll a 10 on damage and instantly turn the marine into pink mist.
Anonymous No.96317961
>>96317857
>>96317938
the marine fails 1 save and he dies by the way now stop posting
Anonymous No.96317970
>>96317938
The samefagging is obvious by the way, we knows its still you
Anonymous No.96317976 >>96317988 >>96318002 >>96318010
>>96317952
Boss characters can roll Rightous Fury but not NPCs without Fate Points.
Anonymous No.96317988
>>96317976
Doesnt matter marines die on every 3rd wound lmao
Anonymous No.96318002 >>96318049
>>96317976
Fact: 10 guys with wooden sticks kill a marine.
Fact: The marine fails to kill 1 of them
Fact: He aint even conquering a village
Anonymous No.96318010 >>96318071
>>96317976
Post models or your wrogn
Anonymous No.96318049 >>96318065
>>96318002
Counterfact, a single space marine kills 4 greater daemons, slaughters armies of traitor soldiers while his collgue alone kiss a daemon prince, stops an Orc Waagh. The fluff has more examples of single Astartes slaughtering human soldiers by the hundreds.
Anonymous No.96318065
>>96318049
he has 4 strength, 4 toughness, dies on every 3rd wound.
Anonymous No.96318071 >>96318091 >>96318120 >>96318123
>>96318010
I do something better and post a comic topical to OP's question.
My point is that we need a basic understanding of the capabilties of an astartes and the Deathwatch RPG's are simply the nearest rule system that best simulates astartes in the lore. Could a single Astartes easily conquer a Feudal World? Yes, but not all, espeically if the cultural divide is too wide and the Astartes is a boneheaded fanatic. He won't be stupid but he could be a blind zeaot and merely become a warlord trying to murder all opponents instead of becoming a uniter figure all kings can trust because the Astartes is not interested in ruling or creating a dynasty but the glory of the Imperium and the Emperor.
Anonymous No.96318088 >>96318233 >>96326377
Malum Caedo could do it if he wanted to, He single-handedly defeated a planet full of demons and demonic super soldiers.
Anonymous No.96318091 >>96318101
>>96318071
Anonymous No.96318101
>>96318091
Anonymous No.96318120 >>96318277
>>96318071
Nope, post models. Don't have any do you faggot?
Anonymous No.96318123 >>96318174 >>96318233
>>96318071
We already have an understanding through a canon rule system, marines have 4 strength and 4 toughness compared to a humans 3 strength and 3 toughness.
And the thread has proven decisively that one could not ever conquer a world
Anonymous No.96318174 >>96318260
>>96318123
>And the thread has proven decisively that one could not ever conquer a world
I still think he could if he gets really lucky, but it would have next to nothing to do with his marine physiology outside of slowed aging.
Anonymous No.96318233 >>96318279 >>96318328
>>96318123
We? Who is we? In the canon RPG system a feudal knight can't harm an Astartes thanks to his superior weapons skill/agility, unnatural toughness and power armor. This dude: >>96318088 did conquer a world by himself as did the guys from BloodQuest, while Amadeus Kaias Incarius and Priad did defend a world by themselves from threats that would conquer a feudal world.
>>96310425
>No equipment
Probably. They could become the high priest/warrior of the chaos god/pantheon/chaos undivided they worship and by openly granting supernatural powers they could easily become a Muhammed figure and unite war and religion together to murder/scheme/magic their way to the top. Constantinus did so.
Not all Chaos Marines or Marine could conquer a Feudal World. They need the mental capacity to do it and if they are too deep in their rage, beliefs the would hinder themselves and be nothing more than a local horror/warlord if immortal.
Anonymous No.96318260
>>96318174
I think his knowledge that such things are possible and if he comes from the average chapter he would know to repair his tools and thus fashion replicia of them. He would have enough engineering mind and with his enhanced mind/memory a industralization would be possible. He wouldn't need to conquer the world for that though. Just enough ressources that he could amass via different means. Building a communicator wouldn't be beyond his ability, but spaceship building would be if he isn't a tech marine.
Anonymous No.96318277
>>96318120
NTA this is an obvious RPG world building thread (TROLL THREAD) I hate you faggots just bumping this shit all day. Go back to your stupid fucking general.
Anonymous No.96318279 >>96318305
>>96318233
Not canon. Marines have 4 strength and 4 toughness, now shut the fuck up seocndary
Anonymous No.96318305 >>96318320
>>96318279
I do enjoy parrots, keep repeating yourself.
Anonymous No.96318320
>>96318305
I accept your concession.
Anonymous No.96318328
>>96318233
The FFG RPGs are not canon and any stats they give would be immediately overwritten by official GW material.
Anonymous No.96321849
>>96310171
The locals were just gathering raw material, AdMech did all the actual construction.
Anonymous No.96326342 >>96326362
Anonymous No.96326362
>>96326342
Thanks for the bump kind stranger!
Anonymous No.96326377
>>96318088
No he didn't secondary.
Anonymous No.96330126
>>96305610
Anonymous No.96330144
>>96285509 (OP)
they'd probably be able to make a tower that could send signals to the imperium in their life time
Anonymous No.96330203 >>96330213
>>96316800
Thats completely false. Marines are supposed to be equal to ogryns actually better. Better athletics, reflexes and combat pontial.
Ogryns are like naturally occurring free discount marines.
Anonymous No.96330213 >>96330298
>>96330203
Nope, Ogryns are way stronger and tougher.
Julius No.96330298
>>96330213
nope
Anonymous No.96332215
>>96285509 (OP)
nah, not even techmarine
he could set local population on correct course
making standardised shit like lasguns, power batteries etc in his lifetime (assuming he would not deteriorate himself without correct support)
Anonymous No.96332224
>>96289754
>Space marine: 5 to 10 centuries
they need support, alone marine basicaly go into coma and wait to be rescued
Anonymous No.96332259
>>96291626
You want to use radio communication to talk to people in different solar systems?
Anonymous No.96332272 >>96332417
>>96294215
>An ork though could eventually figure it out.
A random ork will eventually spawn a mekboy who can figure it out, but some sluggaboy is never going to do it himself.
Anonymous No.96332287
>>96303159
>S4
>T4
>Dies to an ork boy in melee
Anonymous No.96332417
>>96332272
nah he could if he believes he can
Anonymous No.96333447
>>96316954
>nobody is moving that much weight around on short notice
gravity does that