Thread 96287859

Exotic Fighting Styles Edition.

>What is Exalted?
An epic high-flying role-playing game about reborn god-heroes in a world that turned on them.
Start here:http://theonyxpath.com/category/worlds/exalted/

>That sounds cool, how can I get into it?
Read the 3e core book (link below). For mechanics of the old edition, play this tutorial:http://mengtzu.github.io/exalted/sakuya.html
It’ll get you familiar with most of the mechanics.

>Gosh that was fun. How do I find a group?
Roll20 and the Game Finder General here on /tg/. good luck

>Resources for Third Edition
>3E Core and Splats
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/b54o6teut3fx6/Exalted_3e

>Errata for Third Edition
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1n3ooTmopm3CBxW5jwPp1761xsaIccea-5XIhVM_PQEc/edit

>Other Ex3 Resources
https://pastebin.com/fG1mLMdu (embed)

>Resources for Older Editions
https://pastebin.com/BXSGuFdQ (embed)

>Current Quixalted Extended QE Version (Fanmade Supplement)
https://files.catbox.moe/rjgmo5.pdf

>Optional Quixalted Exalts
https://www.mediafire.com/file/jg86yrewnhx2ov3/QE_Reject3eExaltHomebrew.pdf/file

>Exalted Demake/Black Vault (Now with updates):
https://pastebin.com/Tt1PjuYt (embed)
https://pastebin.com/qHRW9N51 (embed)

>collection of Exalted Hacks
https://pastebin.com/gtZnycJs (embed)

>stuff that might be interesting
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/the-exalted-thread-with-no-original-ideas.317216/

Last thread: >>96259058
TQ: What's the weirdest way your characters have killed their foes?

>>96287859 (OP)
>An epic high-flying role-playing game about reborn god-heroes in a world that turned on them

That sounds incredibly homosexual and prone to paint atheism as a good thing

>>96287859 (OP)
>OP's pic.
Looks like a second life model.

>>96287896
>That sounds incredibly homosexual and prone to paint atheism as a good thing
It is.

>>96287905
>Looks like a second life model.
See >>96287908

>>96286265
Bullshit. I do not accept this as a valid criteria for the selection of the Infernal Exalted. 2e got it right: They shouldn't be treated as valued collaborators, nothing they are given should be intended as anything more than a gilded cage through which to work their revenge on Creation. The Yozis do not NEED empathy. I would go so far as to argue even in 1e, empathy with human-level beings is anathema from the kind of transcendental and elemental forces they represent. SWLIHN for example is inhumanly empathic-it just doesn't affect her utilitarian goals at all. Why should it affect her choice of Exalt?

A major appeal of playing an Infernal Exalt for me and many others was either defying your patron or accepting the damnation they represent. There is no need to make the Yozis "relatable", and that diminishes the grandeur of their status as pre-divine amoral beings.

>medicine doesn't speed up healing without charms
what the fuck is even the point

>>96288082
It's depressing how in hindsight just how many systems in Exalted are both overdesigned and nonfunctional.

>>96288092
The age-old "this is something even average people should be capable of coing" issue. See also D&D and Feats.

>>96288082
>what the fuck is even the point
To buy the charms who do shit.

>>96288160
>>96288092
I think this engine line has some hereditary problems because baseline humans were an afterthought.

>>96288057
Malfeas is plenty relatable, guy is mad all the time. Ebon Dragon loves the doomed, ectect. Even understood humans enough to tell Malfeas not to torture them all the time because of how mad he is. They also have way more freedom then say, Abyssals.

For what it matters nothing really stops you from defying your patron or accepting the damnation they represent as far as I can tell. Hell, if you want to be someone who lost an incredible amount and that's why the Yozi chose them you can still do that. I am rather confident none of that has changed for 3e.

It's sorta hard to say seeing as how it's not out yet.

>>96288167
Yet another way Chronicles of Darkness was superior to its predecessor and all the more unjust it was snubbed time and time again. It started with normal humans then built up from there.

>>96288082
Without medicine mortals can die from poison and diseases. I mean we don't really have ways to speed up healing in real life. Most of it's curing diseases and preventing it from getting worse but if you break your arm you're still going to have to deal with a long recovery and physical therapy afterwards.

>>96288213
Their rules for medical treatment can be confusing at first but they exist

>>96288227
diseases don't happen

>>96288213
As much as I preffer Chronicles the first impressions were pretty trash because of VtR 1e and the end times bullshit before it.

>>96288245
NWoD took a while to find its own identity, and by the end of its life, it redeveloped a lot of vices, but it ended in a high note with deviants

>>96288255
>NWoD took a while to find its own identity, and by the end of its life, it redeveloped a lot of vices,
Yeah merit bloat was indeed a bitch some editorial choises were just dumb as hell.

>>96288082
>>medicine doesn't speed up healing without charms
Ehhh are you dumb on purpose?
We can't speed up healing irl either.

>>96288443
>>96288227
are you guys just pretending or did all the cocksucking give you braindamage

>>96288456
How do you speed up the recovery of a broken bone?

>>96288460
don't use medicine and see if takes just as long to heal

holy shit what a retard

>>96288460
>How do you speed up the recovery of a broken bone?
You set it on the right position and give the guy the right kind of food and medicine. Specially when the bone is fucked 6 ways to sunday.

>>96288469
The bone will "heal" at the same speed; the difference is if it will do so correctly without leaving sequelae.

>>96288484
Medicine at best helps the body to heal correctly and prevent secondary injuries.
Or preventing the body from healing in a way that leaves it crippled.
That can be easily modeled with medicine as it is in the game.
But most don't care, as the exalted automatically regenerate from anything short of amputation.
If I remember correctly, the Book of Heroes gives mortal healing rules for 2e to better simulate this difference.

>>96288503
ok then try not going to the doctor when you break your leg next time you drooling retard

>>96288511
You are the retard attacking a strawman.

>>96287896
atheism is based

>>96288512
you are a retard who has no idea what medicine even is

>>96288503
>Medicine at best helps the body to heal correctly and prevent secondary injuries.
>Or preventing the body from healing in a way that leaves it crippled.
Yes but those things do help to speed up the recovery by a pretty decent margin. That's why in many cases it would be best represented by downgrading damage or speeding up healing times.

>>96288551
>Yes but those things do help to speed up the recovery by a pretty decent margin. That's why in many cases it would be best represented by downgrading damage or speeding up healing times.
I would say it would be better if medicine prevented permanent injuries rather than increased recovery times.
At least for injuries with sickness, it would help the patient to heal faster (or be able to heal at all) and prevent permanent symptoms.

>>96288582
So reducing the wound penalties

>>96288593
That could work, but I'm talking more about, for example, let's say the -1 injury represents lethal damage from a slash to your left arm.
If you don't get it healed, you run the risk of infection, so roll stamina. If you fail, you stop recovering and might even grow sicker and accumulate more damage.
Or if you didn't get infected, you also have to roll stamina. The result says if you healed well or if you now have a permanent -1 to all actions with your left hand, as your arm healed wrong and lost mobility permanently.
Of course an exalt can heal this kind of minor permanent injury.

While an exalt doesn't have to worry about any of this, they might at worst gain a cool scar if the damage that healed is aggravated.

>>96287896
>That sounds incredibly homosexual and prone to paint atheism as a good thing
Yes. Religion as a transaction is the default. While atheism is one of the pushes it mixes better with something like judaism or shinto.

>>96288082
>medicine doesn't speed up healing without charms
It can, actually. I think literally every splat has something that speeds up healing, it just doesn't make healing instant. Beyond that, you can speed up the pace of treatment. That lets you stabilize people way beyond the point they'd normally be considered dead on the spot - if you can get to a decapitated head fast enough a Solar with Instant Treatment Methodology can still stabilize them. Medicine also helps cure wounds that otherwise can't be healed - if a Solar has a decapitated head, Wound-Mending Care Technique lets them grow a new body. Etcetera.

All it's disallowing is instant/combat healing, and even then only for Solars. They don't want the TF2 Medic as a combat archetype for the more grounded Exalts, but Sidereals can do it and Lunars get close.

>>96288652
>it's bad when gods reward people's faith with health, good crops and the like
Are you suggesting religion is better when it doesn't give you anything except a warm fuzzy feeling in your head?

>>96288674
exaltedbabs in charge of reading

>>96288652
>Yes. Religion as a transaction is the default. While atheism is one of the pushes it mixes better with something like judaism or shinto.
Judaism and Shinto are mostly random bullshit you do because your family has done so for thousands of years even when the lesson is lost.

>>96288682
>Are you suggesting religion is better when it doesn't give you anything except a warm fuzzy feeling in your head?
That's the main thing it sold before shrinks learned to tap a similar pool.

>>96288682
>Are you suggesting religion is better when it doesn't give you anything except a warm fuzzy feeling in your head?
You've phrased that strangely. I wasn't suggesting anything of the sort in that post, I was describing Exalted's religion as transactional and some real life religions that aspire to be similar in some ways, without implication of whether any of those were good or bad.

No, though. Not to downplay the effectiveness of warm fuzzy feelings but if religion did more it would be better.

>>96288082
>medicine doesn't speed up healing without charms
>what the fuck is even the point
stabilize incapacitated people

>>96288674

I don't think that's quite true. Wound-Mending Care Technique just heals health levels, if you've lost a limb then you're still out of luck until you get the much higher-essence charms that let you rebuild destroyed body parts entirely. I'm pretty sure it can't save a decapitated head that can't survive on its own even if all the damage to the actual head is repaired instantly. You can kind of do combat medic stuff with stuff like Body-Sculpting Essence Method + Instant Treatment Methodology, but the corebook natural language means you have to ask your ST whether "a handful of seconds" qualifies as a Simple charm. The Abyssal equivalent does, though, so should be fine, and really "keep a decapitated head alive" should be the kind of thing that E4/5 Solar Medicine charms do, instead of all the unnecessary "double your successes/free full excellency" clutter.

Replacing destroyed limbs and such is surprisingly difficult, I think basically every splat has something along the lines of Wholeness-Restoring Meditation where you need to spend several months rebuilding an arm with three diff 5 goal 20 extended rolls. The one big exception is Sids, who don't have it in their Medicine tree but can pop someone's missing arm back on instantly with a Sid/Get-exclusive move in the Citrine Pox SMA if they're willing to invest a good amount.

>>96288886
>Wound-Mending Care Technique just heals health levels
I misremembered which one I was talking about (I thought Wound-Mending Care was Wholeness-Restoring Meditation for some reason and spoke as if it was), and also misread the guy I was responding to. You don't need to rub salt in the wound.

>>96288057
The Yozis are very broad beings that literally contain multitudes; each Third Circle embodies a facet of themselves, after all. Amalion, for instance, embodies a positive drive Malfeas has in that some part of him likes creating beautiful things. They are still overall extremely bitter and vengeful beings, but I'm not sure the game benefits from them having no depth beyond being angry and insane, which is an incredibly bad misreading of Games of Divinity.

Also, not quite sure you can call Malfeas a "gilded cage" in regards to Infernals. They can just up and leave, and 2e/3e say the majority spend most of their time in Creation.

>>96287896
Atheism is a good thing IRL, but it doesn't really make much sense in a world where gods are just objectively speaking there.

>>96288082
Point is to take those damn Charms. And I guess for mortals to avoid infection and other complications from wounds, stemming bleeding, treating illness and so on.

>>96288160
In regards to Medicine, specifically, which are the things you have in mind that even average people should be capable of doing but mechanically can't?

>>96288511
Maybe anon would prefer his injuries to heal without without leaving sequelae, though.

>>96288622
2E, at least, had attacks that did enough damage cause disabling injuries with lingering aftereffects, and healing those aftereffects was a part of what Medicine did. That was only for mortals, though, and I think it's worth discussing whether Exalted should spend very much wordcount on details of mundane medicine that only matter for mortals and not at all for the titular Exalted.

>>96289025
>each Third Circle embodies a facet of themselves, after all.
So what if we move the entity in charge of the Infernal Exaltation from the jotun to the soul? It's no longer MALFEAS THE MUTILATED PRIMORDIAL who is speaking directly to a mortal but Bereingiere or Amalion or Gervesin. That could be its own background denoting how close you are to the Soul that offered you exaltation.

Although I'd still say expanding on what exactly the 'brainwashing' the Groteque Chrysalis does would be appreciated. Hard not to be forced to empathsize with Malfeas when you are forced to live his downfall and the self-hatred/normal-hatred he feels for failing.

>>96289882
>So what if we move the entity in charge of the Infernal Exaltation from the jotun to the soul? It's no longer MALFEAS THE MUTILATED PRIMORDIAL who is speaking directly to a mortal but Bereingiere or Amalion or Gervesin. That could be its own background denoting how close you are to the Soul that offered you exaltation.
lessens the implied importance and rarity of infernal exalted

you know who else gets exalted by proxy patron? Dragonblood. Even Abyssals would at least be walked to the mouth of the void and visit the tombs of the neverborn to acknowledge their true patrons.

>>96289480
>Gods aren't deserving of X and gods do not deserve worship.
>not considered fantasy atheism.

It's not really that hard. It's literally what Sol is in setting. Is it a perfect 1 for 1? Not really, but IRL doesn't have magic creatures like in Exalted. It also matches close enough to IRL to be cool. Now why you'd want to be an atheist in a fantasy setting, I don't know. Maybe you have a cool idea. Maybe you're tired of retards who always shit on atheists. Maybe you want to kill all the gods and build a throne from their skulls.

>>96291230
Oh, it's another "words don't mean things" episode.

>>96291230
if you're stupid yeah. It's really not hard to understand that IRL Atheism = Gods/God isn't real and fantasy Atheism is "all powerful god isn't real and there is no reason to worship shit with magic when everything has magic."

Remember Anon, all words are made up. If language doesn't change and can't be used poetically then it's a really shitty language.

>>96291352
i quoted the wrong person, meant to quote the above poster. This should be obvious but, you know.

>>96291352
No, atheism has a specific meaning, and disliking gods isn't it. If yout get the meaning of a word wrong and are corrected, the sensible response isn't to double down on your mistake, it's just to keep the correct meaning in future. Language changes, yes, but that doesn't mean that you can't also just be wrong about what a word means.

>>96291352
You are using creating new definitions only you know for words already in use and are subseuently baffled when people don't understand what you're talking about.

In this moment I am euphoric, not because of the Exaltation from some phony Incarna, but because I am Exalted by my own intelligence.

He does sound like that, doesn't he? I wonder how he's going to triple down on his inability comprehend other people.

>>96291403
>>96291405

What is this, high autism? I mean sure, the difference between not worshiping gods and not worshiping gods is so vastly different. News flash morons, magic doesn't exist IRL either but people still talk about it. Literally no one has an issue understanding this.

God isn't real IRL, atheism gets shit on by retards that believe in a skydaddy, so they want to play an atheist in their fantasy game. It works well enough. Pathfinder already does this. How is this hard for you? how the fuck do you even do the basic math required to play this game?

>>96291443
the projection is insane. from someone so dumb that they need dnd atheism explained to them. my god. you're actually retarded.

>>96291461
Anon, pointing out that you're wrong about something isn't a sign of autism, it's just a sign of you being wrong. Getting so stuck up on this that you can't just move on your mistake but feel the need to keep arguing how you were totally right , however, doesn't seem quite like neurotypical behavior.

What is this? This isn't even doubling, tripling, quadrupling down on something anymore. This is digging to bedrock and chipping a hole through it into the mantle. This is someone so far up their own ass that they have lost the ability to either disengage, apologize, or consider an alternate viewpoint. I hope to meet you in person some day just so I can see what such a being physically presents as. Utterly fascinating.

>>96291487
>IRL atheist don't worship a god, because they aren't real.
>Fantasy atheist doesn't worship god, even though they are magical creatures.
>HOW COULD THEY CALL IT ATHEISM???

nah, you're just an actual fucking retard. Language does mean stuff and you have an incredibly fucked understanding of it. You can wreck your own games and out yourself as a retard by doubling down on this shit. No one has nor will they ever stop you from doing that.

god damn imagine.

>hey i want to play an atheist character, don't want to worship a god and all that.
>WTF DO YOU MEAN THAT'S NOT ATHEISM
>w-what?

the highest of autism. The canons of the daystar could not stand before your autism it is so mighty.

>>96291493
the projection is insane. why are you talking about yourself. actual children would not have any issue understanding this.

>>96291535
Anon, everyone understands what you mean, you just happen to be wrong. That's all there is to it. Just accept it and move on.

>>96291558
Ah, so you lost. Okay. Also I just realized, this autistic fuck has 100% had a breakdown over someone wanting to play an atheist in their game. Something that even pathfinder players can understand. It's honestly amazing just how autistic these fuckers are.

>>96291529
>>96291576
Most Exalted characters I've seen haven't worshiped any god. Well, most non-Dragon-Blooded characters, at least, as DBs are frequently Immaculates. I've never seen anyone have a problem with such characters, and I've never heard anyone describe such a character as an atheist, either.

>>96291622
Yeah plenty of people in Exalted don't worship gods. It's something that doesn't translate perfectly, like a lot of stuff when you put it into a fantasy world. I've never seen someone describe themselves as religious or spiritual in exalted either. Why would you. You're either worshiping one of the fantasy things or your killing the gods or whatever. Or being a proper exalt and worshiping yourself.

This really applies more to Pathfinder or in the abstract sense where a player wants to play an atheist. Which really everyone does when they think the gods don't deserve worship. There are plenty of other examples, but Pathfinder is the most famous one I know of. Or say, an Exalt who doesn't want a cult.

>>96287859 (OP)
What are your favorite martial arts styles and why?

>atheists: lol religion is for retards, good thing we tore all that shit down so we can enjoy an Intellectual Golden Age for to enlightened savants like myself
>also atheists: pregnant men

>>96291763
None, MA need a complete rework.

>>96291776
what are sidereals and lunars.

>>96291787
Fantasy.

>>96288974

Apologies, slightly jumped on you for that. I spent about half an hour the other day carefully comparing every Exalt's medical tree for homebrew purposes and now I have more pointless of Solar Medicine than anyone plausibly needs to have even if you're playing a Solar Medic.

I mostly came to the conclusion that grabbing that one Sid Craft heal charm and then sinking 60-70 XP into Medicine 5 + the heal stuff from Citrine Pox once you hit E3 narrowly beats out Solar or Abyssal Medicine if all you want to do was fix any physical damage any of the team ever takes, but then becomes a bit worse if you want to heal or zombift a whole bunch of people.

Wow, what's caused the influx in mega-retards into these threads? Is the rest of the RPG field just boring so they have nothing else to do on this board?

>>96291763
None I've read so far. Feel like you could make a MA for social attacks too; But I guess the Sids already have that, yes?

>>96291776
sounds cool, love some mpreg. thanks to atheists for making this real.

>>96291805
imagine being this retarded and still being an exalted player. how did you even manage to get past the first book lol.

>>96291763
Gyre and PAoC are among my two favourite SMA styles. For the other styles, there's a lot to choose from, but I notice that whenever I need a MA style for a character concept I usually fall back on white reaper.

>>96291876
There's more replies and discussion to the ironic I hope to god he's being ironic retard intentionally misrepresenting atheism or confusing healing with recovery than there is to the guy wanting to talk about MA's.

>>96291763
Righteous Devil Style, because Gun Kata is awesome.

>>96291922
this autistic fuck is still on about that. just look at pathfinder atheism. This has been a thing for years. You literally can't be this stupid. It's not humanly possible.

>>96291876
No clue. I don't really get what's accomplished by the religion argument. Seems like a proxy for others to bitch about religion or its lack thereof in real life.
>>96291763
Ebon Shadow as I am an edgelord.

>>96291960
its also fun to shitpost, don't forget that. lots of us don't have much better to do, as you can tell.

>>96291422
I enjoy WW games, because their autism make me look like a social butterfly by comparison

>>96291986
Only people who think they are only pretending to be retarded but are, in fact, actually retarded find shutposting fun.

>>96291763
I liked the recently previewed Flying Guillotine Style, because the idea of a sorcerous MA is pretty cool. Generally speaking I agree with >>96291785, though.

>fantasy atheists.
They are alatrists, like Conan kind of is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alatrism

>>96291948
Didn't like how much gun there was and how little kata. Also how it was focused on 1v1 people. Prefer one which was focused on auto-reloading firewands and filling the air with flying lead.
Is this how people get started in homebrweing Charms? Trying to bring into existence something which doesn't exist?

>>96291999
minor spelling mistake, disregard comment.
>>96292031
>n-n-n-no they're not atheist they're alarists.

holy autism batman. I mean, I'm kidding, that's a cool word to know. Don't really see it used in anything.

>>96292111
Anon, I just entered the conversation.

And knowing words helps a person to better communicate thoughts, instead of using terms like "hopecore" for optimism.

>>96292141
Stop engaging the autist. He can't differentiate good engangement from bad so every response in his eyes looks like support. He literally can't proccess the concep that he is wrong. Just let him believe he's right and talk to people with less water on the brain.

>>96292141
Talking about hopecore and insisting that anyone who points out that optimism is already a word is a dumb autist having a meltdown seems more like current-day /tg/'s thing though.

>>96292141
Gotta be real, hopecore honestly sounds really cool and I wish it were a gaming term. Grimdark is already a thing, might as well have it's opposite.
>>96292153
its okay, you lost, get over it. or double down on this stuff in a game and out yourself as a freak.
>>96292048
Pretty much. There is so much homebrew in Exalted that it's a bit crazy. The more the better I say. I just wish it was easier to keep track of.

Any ideas for Heartstones and manses?

>>96292228
>or double down on this stuff in a game and out yourself as a freak.
Why would there be any need to double down on this stuff in game? No one describes irreligious characters in Exalted atheists, not in-setting and not OOC.

Aside from that, you do understand that multiple different anons have pointed out that your use of the word 'atheism' is mistaken, right? It's not one guy arguing with you. It's the rest of the thread asking you to please accept your mistake and move on so we can all talk about something else.

>>96292258

Again, out yourself as a freak when someone asks to play an atheist in one of your games. Tell them what they actually want to play is an alarist and see how much that matters. I'm just making sure you understand how autistic you are.

>>96292228
Don't reply to my posts. Keep your autism contained to a single rely-chain.

>>96292317
No.

>>96292237
Only basic shit. Really want to make a Manse that grows with the characters over time but that shit would take too much autism/time to plan out how it would grow/what it could grow.
The only Manse I've actually written much about I'm much too ashamed to post about.

Hearthstones however I default to
>This Hearthstone lets you use [Charm] without paying [its activation].
Since I'm a hack. Well, that and a copy of the Doctor's psychic ID where the scroll displays the credentials the viewer expects to see. After being primed by the attuner.

>>96292228
No winner ever had to repeatedly tell their opponent they lost. Especially this many times.

>>96292295
Alatrism Anon here, most of the time the PCs or are non practicing religious or religion just don't come up.

"Atheists in a world full of gods" or happen in capeshit/bazinga sci-fi, or the writers come with another term for the character's religious philosophy.

>>96292237
Nothing particularly concrete, just a few vague ideas I might work on if I ever have cause. A Fire-Aspected Manse that's outwardly a fairly mundane-looking palace but that has pipes carrying fiery Essence hidden in its structures, used for heating but also for defense, an Air-Aspected Manse built around a frozed-solid thunderstorm, with frozen bolts of lightning acting as support pillars, an Earth-Aspected Manse with a garden of metal trees, some of them being slowly grown into useful shapes in a manner similar to RL tree shaping, stuff like that. None of those ideas currently have more detail to them than that, though.

>>96292385
It's weird because it doesn't really come up in Exalted. Character play someone who has a cult based around them, not someone who is actively worshiping something. They're atheists in the same way anyone without a god they worship is one. People are meant to pray to the player, not vice-versa.

It does come up in Pathfinder pretty often, where people want to play someone who doesn't worship any god. That setting just calls them atheists because that's the point. Gods aren't gods, just fancy magic things. Alarist might be closer but they don't really treat them as anything divine so... language is complicated and ever changing, ectect. Although this particular topic is honestly really easy to understand and has plenty of examples.

>>96292537
>It does come up in Pathfinder pretty often, where people want to play someone who doesn't worship any god. That setting just calls them atheists because that's the point. Gods aren't gods, just fancy magic things. Alarist might be closer but they don't really treat them as anything divine so... language is complicated and ever changing, ectect. Although this particular topic is honestly really easy to understand and has plenty of examples.
Difficulty of understanding is not the issue here, it's just the terminology being wrong. Incidentally, literally every time I've seen Pathfinder atheism being discussed, I've seen people point out that it's not actually atheism. The way Pathfinder uses that term just isn't consistent with its actual meaning. Yes, people who're familiar with Pathfinder know what it means in the context, but people do still frequently point out that the term's being used kind of nonsensically there.

Batman is an example of a real fantasy atheism, he has literally beat up gods and knows they're nothing but fancy aliens. Heaven is just another dimension. Hell is just another, bigger Gotham.

Rick from Rick and Morty a popular cartoon show on adult swim is an example of fake fantasy atheist. He immediately starts praying the moment things don't go his way and you always get that vibe that he's a giant hypocrite.

>>96292563
it's okay to be wrong and to realize how much you outed yourself as an autist when you brought this stuff up in whatever game you play. But yes, people who play Pathfinder knows what it means in this context. Lots of people do. It's not hard for normal people to understand.

>>96292537
This is because Exalted characters are gods themselves, with a significant percentage ruling through their connections to the divine, like the FA Solars.

>>96292577
clearly the primordials are just really weird raksha and not deserving of the world they forged. would you trust a fae with a city, or a even a single person, let alone all of Creation? think about it.

>>96292575
I hope to fuck there's a massive chunk of time you stop trying to shore up your failed arguements with cries of "NOOO YOU LOST SAY IT YOU LOOOOOSE" otherwise you'll have less of a life than I initially though. Maybe even a NEET, which would neatly explain your inability to accept other people's opinions.

>>96292594
In 1e, this connection was made.

>>96292625
it's okay that you lost buddy you don't need to throw an autistic tantrum on top of everything else. I hope you learned how fantasy atheism works, it was never all that complicated.
>>96292628
nah i don't believe it. next thing you'll tell me is that humans with magic powers are somehow greater then the gods. get real, this isn't the setting for that nonsense.

>>96292737
>nah i don't believe it. next thing you'll tell me is that humans with magic powers are somehow greater then the gods. get real, this isn't the setting for that nonsense.
The connection between primordials and the raksha is from 1e, I don't remember the book.

>>96292854
I. okay anon. Thank you for the info. I'm hear all the stuff about primordials in the 1e books is really, really good. Hard to find them in PDF form online though. 2e and 3e books are super easy to find. Or I'm blind.

>>96292903
You can't just search the words, you need to personally search for the sections

>>96292935
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Who's the best and worst iconic?

>>96289480
>2E, at least, had attacks that did enough damage cause disabling injuries with lingering aftereffects, and healing those aftereffects was a part of what Medicine did. That was only for mortals, though, and I think it's worth discussing whether Exalted should spend very much wordcount on details of mundane medicine that only matter for mortals and not at all for the titular Exalted.
I do think it is worth having because we have seen the result of making everything exalted-centric with 3e.
Everything and everyone outside the exalted becomes irrelevant.
I would rather have specific rules for every class of being, like what 2e/1e did, than only have exalted vs. exalted conflict be the only meaningful thing that exists.

>>96292359
>Only basic shit. Really want to make a Manse that grows with the characters over time but that shit would take too much autism/time to plan out how it would grow/what it could grow.
That's easy to explain but the rules for this kind of stuff can fall appart pretty easy.

>>96292428
Those are some pretty neat descriptions.

>>96293025
Wouldn't Janest, Hwei and that one architect woman be in it too?

>>96293227
There aren't any rules so you can just make it work however you want it to.

>>96292977
chant no more, sorcerer

>>96293272
I meant it in the sense that there is a decent chance the rules won't convey what you want.

>>96293303
If you use 2e rules you can just make it something that's a flaw this is a 5 dot manse but it takes a story to get it's full power giving you extra dots to spend when it reaches it.

>>96292854
It was very, very obliquely implied by some of the way that the Fair Folk Charms worked, but it could just as easily be that it was meant to be a red herring, or that the Fair Folk saw the Primordials and then badly copied how they worked.

>>96288180
>nothing really stops you from defying your patron or accepting the damnation they represent as far as I can
I’m getting really tired of this excuse. My criticism is of the default premise presented, not the hollow “y-you can do w-whatever you want in your own g-game!” that is the same halfhearted old gotcha they use to justify the existence of Exigents and the lack of coherency in example Exigents. I can play a Solar whose thing is being an overweight clown who’s also half-zebra. That is not the default presentation of Solars.

>>96289025
>an incredibly bad misreading of Games of Divinity
People talk about Games of Divinity like it completely contradicts the 2e presentation of the Yozis. I’ve read it, and it does not. Malfeas is still an angry, raging, self-hating city who desires revenge on Creation. Cecelyne still wants to expand, SWLIHN still desires a world of compliant wills, Adorjan is still alien and unpredictable and terrifying. Even the Ebon Dragon, the most touted example of a differently presented Yozi, has his coupling with the Scarlet Empress presented in graphic detail elsewhere.

I’m a huge fan of the Yozis having unpredictable, grandiose whims of magnanimity. I’m all for Cecelyne being surprisingly evenhanded when approached as a lawmaker in a capacity unrelated to Creation’s IMMEDIATE conflicts of interest with Malfeas, or Malfeas taking some out of his day to have a friendly dance-off with a visiting Solar. What I don’t like is this presumption the Yozis are kind enough to deliberately dole out such treatment to the champions empowered by the corrupted, degraded forms of the superweapons responsible for their very imprisonment. It smacks of Helluva Boss/Hazbin writing where no villain can be TOO vicious.

>Malfeas as a “gilded cage”
I’m not calling MALFEAS the cage, I’m calling the demonic servants and privileges the cocaine and hookers that the Yozis use to try to keep their throwaway superweapons loyal.

>>96295451
>People talk about Games of Divinity like it completely contradicts the 2e presentation of the Yozis.
They don't. There are specific parts of 2E Yozi material that some people dislike and that aren't really rooted in any 1E material, and those are the parts people complain about.

>>96295451
>People talk about Games of Divinity like it completely contradicts the 2e presentation of the Yozis.
Not exactly. It's like, as an analogy, take a person you've known all your life as a good person who cares for their family, and later find someone talking about how they were a lovely person but had financially ruined their company with unsustainable charity works and nepo hires. The bias and context and added content doesn't always help.

>>96295451
>People talk about Games of Divinity like it completely contradicts the 2e presentation of the Yozis. I’ve read it, and it does not. Malfeas is still an angry, raging, self-hating city who desires revenge on Creation. Cecelyne still wants to expand, SWLIHN still desires a world of compliant wills, Adorjan is still alien and unpredictable and terrifying. Even the Ebon Dragon, the most touted example of a differently presented Yozi, has his coupling with the Scarlet Empress presented in graphic detail elsewhere.
It is 3efags and writers gaslighting newfags, for example SLS will claim that certain primordials such as Cytherea should be only that small write up and nothing more, despite she gaining more information in another book.

>>96295659
Those parts are the Ebon Dragon kidnapping the Empress*1, and he being the center focus*2.

1* it was from 1e Dragon-Blooded.
2* he was "sitting" in the throne in the center of games of divine cover.

>>96296772
I don't think I've ever seen anyone complain about 1, and while I've seen people complain about 2, it's rarely been the central complaint. Ebon Dragon as the personification of being a dick in manners both grand and petty is what people most commonly complain about, and it's not present in his 1E writeup. Now, pretty much every time that's pointed out, someone far too emotionally invested in 2E will jump out and purposefully misrepresent the argument being made by pointing out that Big Ebby wasn't a good guy in 1E, either. And he wasn't, he was as mad in both senses of the word as the other Yozis and willing to do whatever it took to get out of his prison. There are, however, pretty obvious differences, from the point of view of actually interacting with him in a campaign, between that and an entity of pure malice who will always endeavour to fuck you over.

>>96296842
>I don't think I've ever seen anyone complain about 1,
So you never interacted with the fanbase

Where do I find a list of first age animals for Lunar Elders?

>>96296898
Lel

>>96296898
I have, obviously. Maybe it's an exaggeration to say that I have never seen anyone complain about Ebby kidnapping the Empress, but it's a rare enough occurrence for me to not recall any specific instance. Neither of the things you mentioned is the reason people dislike 2E Ebon Dragon - and soecifically Ebby, other Yozis in 2E don't really get similar hate - his "evil for evil's sake because I'm so evil" schtick is.

>>96296898
Complaining about return of the scarlet empress which sucks ass isn't the same as complaining about the idea of where the empress is.

>>96296940
Out of head, jaguar (jaguar), owl (Lilith), lion (Oka), monkey (Raksi), orca (leviathan), dog (Tammuz), wolf or goat (Ma-Ha-Suchi), rat and snake.

>>96297041
>wolf or goat (Ma-Ha-Suchi)
The former, the goat bits are the result of Wyld mutation.

>>96292027
Might as well go on. The complaint regarding its sheer experience cost is a longstanding one but a bigger problem here is that you're getting a lousy return for all that investment. A four-dot merit, a whole separate skill track with incredibly limited utility, and you still have to buy the Charms themselves. That's bad design period.

However, the worst problem by far is that it's thematically anemic. This is supposed to be a chanbara/xianxia setting, isn't it? Therefore, does it not stand to reason that Martial Arts, being spiritual practices as much as they are combat disciplines, involve a profound change in their adherents? Should a master of Tiger Style, for example, not embody the overwhelming ferocity and patient predatory cunning of its namesake before he even busts out a single Charm? Should his blows not rend flesh as easy as its namesake's claws when he strikes an opponent (and no, optional stunt rule to do so is not good enough)? Should his senses not be more finely honed than a mortal man without his insights into the nature of the Tiger? The list goes on, but I think you understand where I'm going with this.

Compare with Sorcery and see how it falls short. I'm not even talking about powergaming, look at the transformative process that is learning Sorcery, look at what a Sorcerer's control spell says about him, look at the various Shaping Rituals offer their adherents. Even if Sorcery was as expensive as Martial Arts, I guarantee more people would still flock to it on that basis alone.

Like I said, Martial Arts need to be reworked from the ground up.

>>96297236
>>96297041
it's interesting that rather than letting him have chimera features in 3e they ruled that some lunars just develop a hybrid animal shape

>>96297253
>Martial Arts, being spiritual practices as much as they are combat disciplines
Welcome to 3e where they just aren't. Almost all of the utility and non-combat applications that did exist in 2e were stripped out. Ebon Shadow Style can't transform you into a shadow, everything that gave hover/flying/glide is basically just combat hops now, social parts of styles are only there to enhance their effectiveness in combat, etc.

>>96297236
In 3e, he is a carnivore goat instead of the horned wolf from 1e/2e.

>>96297263
>>96297272
"All to make magic unmagical, to make action seem inert."

>>96297253
My problem with Martial Arts is more just that they're sort of a sidenote, which feels pretty thematically awkward to me. Like, MA's are often more appealing to dabblers, people with non-combat areas of focus who spend some of their Solar XP or its equivalents on a Martial Arts, than to dedicated combatants, which is just ridiculous. Like, people getting into flashy martial arts duels and mocking each other's kung fu for being weak seems like something that fits Exalted, except that a Brawlchad who crashes the dues and mocks both the combatants for practicing kung fu in the first place instead of just punching things hard would have the right of it, which sort of changes the whole tone of things. If mystical martial arts bullshit is supposed to be an important part of the setting, MAs should be more central and more powerful, and if it's not desirable that Martial Arts be more central and more powerful, then mystical martial arts bullshit should not be a big part of the setting and less wordcount should be spent on Martial Arts.

>>96297272
>>96297283
It is the anti Tolkien/Leiber/Conan paradox/dilemma.

They simultaneously want to be like them and reject them, be it by accident or deliberately.

They want to be like Leiber, but doing so you are remaking D&D, which they hate.

They want to be like Howard; but also Leiber who rejected the typical pulp fantasy, like Tarzan and Conan.

By rejection of the typical Tolkienesque fantasy, you may accidentally end up with real!Tolkien, specially if you focus on non-combat.

>>96297333
>Like, people getting into flashy martial arts duels and mocking each other's kung fu for being weak seems like something that fits Exalted, except that a Brawlchad who crashes the dues and mocks both the combatants for practicing kung fu in the first place instead of just punching things hard would have the right of it

>>96297333

This mostly seems like a Solar/Abyssal issue, honestly. Of the current splats, Deebs have their special martial arts as a path to power greater than they can usually channel and it's a central part of how they deal with gods and spirits, Alchs combine all their charms with MA and can load all their martial arts into one charm slot so they're strongly encouraged to pick up a style as their base combat suite and Sidereals are so MA-flavoured that their combat abilities work like martial arts, can synergise with martial arts and eventually evolve into SMAs.
Lunars have full charm compatibility with MA, so they're also great with single styles, although they can't use them while shapeshifted so they're perhaps the strongest candidates for animal-form Brawl's raw power as a fully distinct path to human shapes using martial arts. In all these splats, a dedicated martial artist is going to have an advantage in either power or flexibility over someone who's just swinging away with native charms and not getting other benefits from an incompatible source (like being an elephant).

Meanwhile Solar Brawl and Melee are so astronomically broken that Solar-level MA is basically a downgrade unless you houserule the combat abilities into compliance, and Abyssals had to keep the rough Solar power level so despite some attempts at nerfing the worst-offending charms it's still there. They don't have charm compatibility outside a couple of cracked Athletics charms and Abyssal mote vampirism, and basically can't because it would break things even more.

>>96297457
Lunars and Alchemicals being so strong was an accident, because of this they preemptively nerfed Getimians and buffed Sidereals, because otherwise Getimians would far outshine Sidereals.

>>96297476

The published Attribute exalts vary in terms of charm compatibility anyway, Lunars/Alchs just get the good option compared to some of the Exigents (and presumably Gets).

Gets in Essence have some exceptionally setting-breaking bullshit, so I wouldn't be too surprised if they're still cracked, but we don't know how exactly they work yet so wait and see there. They're definitely the most pointless of the new Exalts as far as I'm concerned, we really didn't need Sids 2, but across the splats we currently have MA does pretty well for anyone save Solars/Abyssals.

>>96297501
The devs forgot why the Eclipse anima was so game breaking, so they gave Lunars the ability to combine their charms with martial arts as a consolation for their lack of "mastery" access.

After they relearned how strong it was, they nerfed it for the terrestrial attribute Exigents and Getimians.

>>96297529

Well, yes, but I'm not sure how that undermines my point that MA is a much more sensible pick for the splats that don't have the ability to completely break the game in half with Solar Brawl and completely eclipse any Martial Artist who isn't optimising as hard as they can.

>>96297546
It's hilarious that Brawl became overpowered because Solar Hero being a Celestial Martial Art was a complete downgrade to Solar Charms that they had to invent new keywords and write a bunch of Charms to make it any way appealing compared to baseline Solar Charms. Then they threw out Solar Hero and now Brawl is just punching people with no style and not kung-fu at all so Solars want nothing to do with MAs.

>>96295451
>I’m a huge fan of the Yozis having unpredictable, grandiose whims of magnanimity. I’m all for Cecelyne being surprisingly evenhanded when approached as a lawmaker in a capacity unrelated to Creation’s IMMEDIATE conflicts of interest with Malfeas, or Malfeas taking some out of his day to have a friendly dance-off with a visiting Solar. What I don’t like is this presumption the Yozis are kind enough to deliberately dole out such treatment to the champions empowered by the corrupted, degraded forms of the superweapons responsible for their very imprisonment. It smacks of Helluva Boss/Hazbin writing where no villain can be TOO vicious.
I'm not sure why you're invoking a comedy show as something sorely needing reprehensible villains. Its like complaining Invader Zim didn't rape anybody to show the kids watching it the brutality of an alien invader. This comes off more like an older person shaking their fist at a show the damn youth are watching rather than an actual demonstration of what you're upset about.

Also, I never really understood the whole "disposable soldiers" thing. Seems very stupid for the Yozi, especially since it seems like they didn't take the precautions the Deathlords did. If an Infernal goes rogue, there's jack shit they can do about it short of sending another Infernal to get them. They're defined by their resentment at their betrayal so it feels very cartoonish for them to blunder over and over again into creating conditions that would make an Infernal want to violently oppose them. The Yozis in 1e actually learned something from their betrayal; its why the Infernals in that edition don't have any free will to be able to bite the hand that feeds.

How often do you think the devs browse these threads, loathe as they are to admit it?

>>96297965
I feel like the 2e element of the Exalts self-destructing if left to their own devices is a decent one. Obviously Charms were published to let Infernals break that but the framing of them was always supposed to be one for the exceptional Infernal. Not every one of the 50 Infernals were going to go off and make a new Primordial, the capacity just existed within them. I think the Yozis going "well if that guy fucks off he'll be dead in a few years even if someone doesn't kill him" is reasonable. Now you could say they should have learned to not think anything was impossible for the Exalted but they spent a lot of time tinkering with the Infernal Exaltation, even including a fail-safe, I could see them thinking this time, for sure, we've got it on lock.

Otherwise in 2e they were given pretty great conditions. They were at 3rd Circle Soul levels of authority so they got the run of Hell whenever they wanted to come back. The whole Reclamation plan was a tortuously complicated mess that could be pretty much ignored if you wanted to or given the barest amount of lip service to keep them happy.

>>96298107
I am pretty sure Holden did, and there were cases of weird wording that implied that the anon was a writer.

>>96291422
hashtag thetechnocracy, lol.

>>96298180
I vividly remember how the writers eased off on "numinous" after we had been mocking them for a while about it.

>>96298199
Numinously enough, they also changed some nomenclature, but I think it was for word count reasons

>>96298180
Holden used to tripfag on these threads but I think thye rape ghosts fiasco drove him off.

>>96298224
Sincerely what was he thinking with that charm? Normally you disguise your fetishes a bit, like with the wording.

>>96298281
>Sincerely what was he thinking with that charm?
"The people reading my books and playing my games are mentally sound adults with a mature mindset who don't overreact to even slightly dark or off-color material with screaming tantrums like spoiled toddlers." Sadly, he was wrong.

>>96298295
Anon, I read a loot of doujinshi with that premise, the fault was entirely on Holden for not hiding it better.

>>96298326
You are why Exalted is dead.

>>96291403

Atheism means "without gods"

You could if writing a technical manual split it up as

theist/atheist: does/does not believe gods exist
gnostic/agnostic: does/does not believe their knowledge on spiritual matters to be infallible
religious/areligious: Does/does not follow a structured spiritual path in their life

...but let's be fucking real if you say atheist casually in real life you mean atheistic/agnostic/areligious all at once, and if you said it casually in a fantasy setting you'd probably mean theistic/agnostic/areligious.

"There are entities who are usually called gods and I don't give a shit about them."


Is it, technically, wrong to call such a person and atheist? Yeah I guess, but you'd need to be a retarded pedant to care in a casual conversation.

>>96298553
Nah, you are though for not being able to hide your fetishes better in your games. One thing that past editions have made perfectly clear is that autistic fucks like you can't handle adult topics at the table.

"Hey, welcome to my magical realm. Oh god, why is everyone leaving? Why is everyone, besides me the person playing with rape and obvious fetish fuel, such a weirdo?"

I mean, I'm joking a bit. Exalted is plenty dark and nothing stops you from roleplaying sexual assault or whatever other weird shit you want to. Nothing ever has. It is nice that all the fetish shit is "removed" though - look at all the fucking weirdos it attracts. You people are actually gross. Although I say removed but again, people do still have Exxxalted groups. you creepy incels will just never be a part of it.

>>96298107
Honestly rather doubt anyone working on the line has much to do with 4chan. If you said you had to roll a d10 in this game people would say you're wrong here and that's really hard to have a conversation with.

>>96298629
The people you are arguing with don't even know the rules for the core books, let alone something as complicated as how basic english works. You are right though, an actually retarded child could understand this.

it's some weird thing that fascists and incels say - that 'words have meanings' while never even taking college level english classes. Something about new things being scary to them and their brains not wanting to learn new definitions. Mental illness, basically.

>>96291763
2nd ed, "even blade" and "scarlet patterned battlefield"

>>96298638

It's okay to order your swarm of ghosts to rape someone. I mean, okay, that's actually a terrible thing to do but you know what I mean. It's acceptable to have a fictional character perform that despicable act.

It's fucking retarded to write a "swarm of rape ghosts" charm that is specifically a swarm of rape ghosts charm.

>>96298107
Honestly, I don't think anyone in the current team would post or lurk here. For the most part, this thread doesn't really give them useful feedback.

>>96298837
I'm pretty confident the fan that made the eternals splat posts/reads here and he posts a lot of good exalted stuff. Holden for sure looks retarded enough to come to 4chan as well but who knows how often. For the people on the 3e team I honestly doubt they check out this place - if they did I'd be shocked if they ever told us.

>>96298875
>For the people on the 3e team I honestly doubt they check out this place - if they did I'd be shocked if they ever told us.
I think they do, once they posted about their frustrations with the crowdfunding models used by Rich.

>>96291785
Becoming its own Charm-tree or having greater utility/power with a constrained number of purchasable abilities?

>>96299191
Maybe martial arts could be standardized to 3 or 5 moves/charms but I'm sure that would lead to more fuckers than it would solve.

>>96299266
It either needs to have a massive cost up front and give you Charms/Moves up front to justify, with repurchases and expansions afterwards adding new utility; Or, as you and I think, force it brings its scope back in. Stop making them several pages long with an unholy amount of investment required such that a PC will likely onyl have one or at most two MAs. Trim them down to Three Charms you buy outright, with a fourth or fith "Style" that changes how you use the associated weapon/avenue of attack.

Cull the bloat and tell me
>What does a Martial Art need?

>>96299319
No. Its
>Whats does a Martial Art do?

>>96299319
>>96299466
Both of you are wrong. The pertinent question should be:
>What *IS* a Martial Art?

>>96299787
Irrelevant!
Shooting a gun really fast to cull crowds is a martial art.
Hitting with blades hard enough to shatter them and rely on replacing them is a martial art.
Performing deformed and terrible to behold grapples, throws, and strikes to terrify onlookers is a martial art.
Respiring Essence during combat to stave off the effects of - Health Levels is a martial art.

Although that last one actually be a discrete technique. Maybe with one expansion to raise effective dots for a battle.

>>96300152
>Celestial Bliss Trick expanded to become a 1v1 mid-combat struggle snuggle Martial Art
The greatest of Solar warrior-whores could humble their enemies without ever lowering themselves to actually fighting them.

Out of curiosity, was garuda ever referenced in exalted? Or was it just gandharva?

>>96300437
I am near-certain there was some form of flying... thing named a Garuda. But I might be hallucinating that out of desire. Sounds like a cool name for a flying Manse.

>>96300437
>>96300720
Garuda birds are a type of Fire elementals and the setting's take on phoenixes.

>>96299787
Martial Arts on a meta level are just themed sets of combat Charms. That gives them more leeway to do weird shit that and allow people to overlap.
For example Viper Style gives the user a way to use poison like effects while unarmed on top of some utility stuff like contortionism.

>>96299319
>What does a Martial Art need?
A reason to not be a charm branch.

>>96300773
Garda Birds? Was the misspelling intentional?

>>96300886
Given the track record of the IP, probably.

What's the best version of the infernals for grimderp antagonist and ERP?

Reading ExVsWoD Liminals is interesting, their charmset feels like 5 different charmsets wearing a trench coat than 5 aspects of whole.
Making the design closer to Infernals than the rest.
Soil aspect in particular, seems to fulfill life-death-rebirth theme.

>>96301005
Understand.

>>96298655
Arbitrarily deciding that people who disagree with you on what the word atheism means are fascistic incels with mental illness who don't know the rules for the core books, based on literally no other information than said disagreement on that specific word, sure sounds like the thought process of a sane, well-adjusted person.

>>96301477
autistic incel spotted

>>96296742
I think when 3e ends, I’m going to remember the effort put into trying to gaslight people into thinking it’s better than it is (“You can do whatever you like in the game!” “Just IMAGINE the possibilities!” “Um…we ran out of wordcount lol (enjoy these cuisine paragraphs”) more than the actual game.

>>96297965
It’s an actual demonstration of what I’m upset about because it shows musically inclined demonic beings acting a lot less unpleasantly than you’d expect demons to. The whole idea of a Yozi stooping to trying to empathise with a human is completely inane even to their 1e incarnations.

>the whole “disposable soldiers” thing
Well, the Yozis are defined by madness and bitterness even in 1e (even the Ebon Dragon is thrilled by testing boundaries he knows should be impermeable) so it never seemed off to me. The Yozis are titanic, alien entities who got rolled by the equivalent of bacteria. They have a vested interest in ensuring those bacteria can NEVER threaten them again-and before you get uppity, I’m not saying Infernals should be unfun to play or have Monstrance-style swords of damocles applied to their neck. The whole appeal of Infernals is the Yozis losing control over what they unleash, not the Yozis tailor-making something a human would want long-term.

>it feels very cartoonish
It doesn’t, it feels reasonable for a beyond-human entity to repeat the cycle of violence upon it’s mutilators out of spite
>The Yozis in 1e actually learned something
…okay, then by your own logic it makes even less sense for the 3e Yozis to behave the way they do.

>>96301139
Just play Akuma for that.

>>96301553
3e will always be marred by the fact it's all an overcorrection of the real and imaged problems of 2e.

>>96301566
Real. People talk about Werewolf the Forsaken as an overcorrection to Apocalypse, but at least they actually bothered to worldbuild something fitting the premise even if that worldbuilding is mostly “spirits fucking hate you more than they will ever hate a mage with Spirit 3, for sins that may or may not have had any alternative. Seek forgiveness from the moon or be a werewolf supremacist and drink copium” and “there are SUPER EVIL spirits that want to do far, far worse to you even if they don’t hate you strictly speaking”, like it actually had a consistent atmosphere.

Meanwhile so far the only 3e published work I feel has genuine writer passion behind it is Sidereals. Comparing the fluff in it to say, Abyssals or Lunars, is like night and day.

>>96301553
>enjoy these cuisine paragraphs
You say that like it's a bad thing.

>>96301566
Also as the biggest 3e hater in the whole damn thread, let me just say I didn’t want things to end up like this. There ARE things in 3e that made me very hopeful at the start. I LOVE the idea of sorcerous workings. I like the general idea of charms like Nine Aeons Thew or God-King’s Shrike. In principle, I like the idea of fleshing out individual societies in Creation.

It’s everything in between the few things that are genuine steps in the right direction that make 3e not worth bothering, that and the implementation of some of those corrections making the setting worse. I still don’t understand how 3e writers could misunderstand Ryzala so badly as a character. She’s not supposed to have FRIENDS you idiots, the previous writers compared her to Umbridge!

>>96301598
it is extraneous detail in a world with magic flowing everywhere and doesn't need the space dedicated to it, yes

>>96301598
I wouldn’t complain about the cuisine paragraphs if 1. the rest of the content was consistently interesting and compelling and 2. the writers don’t constantly complain about lack of wordcount to justify why X isn’t included. Since they are, I am left to conclude that there are limited things for players to actually do in Creation that make it feel wondrous and unique specifically due to all the goddamn millet recipes that I am NOT interested in and that have NO impact on gameplay. It’s supposed to be an epic high-flying roleplaying game about reborn god-heroes in a world that turned on them, not an anthropological study or a goddamn cookbook.

>>96300228
I’m suddenly reminded of those legendary courtesans (I forgot if it was Game of Thrones shit or geishas) who’re said to be able to make a man cum with their eyes alone. Honestly sounds like a horny Solar’s Charm.

>>96301579
Alchemicals also has a lot of love but most of it is do from the fact that it's almost exactly the same as 2e alchemicals. Even then, I still rage at the fact that I'm going to have to create a framework for metropoli so I can use them in my game. The fact that the Devs only care about Player facing stuff is telling at why their world is so fucking anemic.

>>96301601
I doubt you're the biggest 3E hater in the thread. I mean, just being able to say that 3E has ides you love, even if you dislike the execution and strongly dislike the edition as a whole, kind of disqualifies you from that. There have definitely been posters in these threads that couldn't say anything even vaguely nice about 3E, and I remember one time an anon went on what almost seemed like a genuine nervous breakdown when suggested that some people might just genuinely like 3E even when being familiar with the previous editions and therefore "knowing better", declaring that he refused to accept that reality. I mean, there are people who dislike 3E because 3E gives plenty of reasons for that - I rather like this edition myself, just for the record, but I very much like it despite some extremely heavy flaws, and I fully understand why other people would find those flaws more difficult to forgive - and then there are people who're just so emotionally invested in hating 3E that they can't make any kind of of a calm analysis of any 3E material presented to them, and you sound more like the former than the latter.

>>96301611
I'm fine with cuisine paragraphs, myself, but not with putting them in every writeup regardless of whether or not there's anything particularly unusual or noteworthy about a given culture's cuisine. I definitely think that what people eat is the kind of detail that makes the setting feel more alive and easier to picture, but, like, a sidebar titled "Cuisine across Creation" or something talking about general trends in different Directions and a separate mention of local cuisine if local cuisine has something unique going on would be better.

>>96301601
>Also as the biggest 3e hater in the whole damn thread, let me just say I didn’t want things to end up like this.
I think 9 out of 10 people here and elsewhere who hate 3e share in this sentiment, and it's arguably the core of it all. It should have been good, it could've been great, there was so much promise. It hurts so much more because of what it could've been.

>>96301666
Personally I feel that my aspirational optimism at the very start of 3e intensifies my net hatred of it because I feel as though having my expectations let down and having put in the effort to read the actual manuscripts and form my own opinion gives me a more personal grudge against the edition than someone who just dismisses it out of hand, but I see where you’re coming from. I guess I’m just so tired of being talked down to by 3efags acting like they’re fucking schoolteachers trying to train you not to say no-no words, and 3e is this infallible numinous religious text that has everything I’m asking for just…not necessarily published in the actual books, or that I’m wrong for disliking concepts like Exigents despite the objectively scattershot way they’ve been implemented instead of having a Roll of Glorious Divinity-style set of generalised Exigent Charms that can be fluffed to whatever-god’s domain. And that as a whole similar to Crucible of Legend, the Exigents book feels like a note saying “You are allowed to imagine things and make things up. Here are my favourite donut steel OCs, by the way” you’re charged money for. That my hate for 3e feels so genuine and heartfelt.

But on the other hand, you’re right. I am willing to engage with the material, if only to get a clear picture on just how badly wrong it went.

>a sidebar titled “Cuisine across Creation”
Exactly, this sounds about right and appropriate for the content’s importance.

>>96301653
>Alchemicals also has a lot of love but most of it is do from the fact that it's almost exactly the same as 2e alchemicals
Yeah, that was basically my reaction to Alchemicals too. They barely fucked with the lore and the worldbuilding, had a few more named Metropoli doing things, and proceeded to acknowledge Metropoli are in fact a thing but also coward out of providing actual rules for them. The worst thing I can say about the book overall is that I miss my boy Oberashti, SHOGUN OF GENOCIDE.

I see 3e Alchemicals as the devs tacitly eating crow about capping Exalt Charm power at E5 as laziness, not sound design. Because no matter how 3efags hem and haw about “i-it’s a sidegrade”, OBJECTIVELY being a fucking city gives you way more raw, on-demand power than being an E5 Solar who isn’t heavily invested into Brawl or Lore. If Metropoli can exist there’s literally no excuse for Devil-Tigers not to.

>>96301694
The other half of it is the impression I’m getting that a large reason why 3e is so stubbornly defended isn’t even on it’s own merits, but because a lot of oldtimer Exalted community members (looking at you Lioness) have formed parasocial relationships with the devs and feel obliged to stan for their friends to help them keep their jobs. Regardless of the product’s objective quality. An impression I wouldn’t have if some of these people aren’t literally moderators who will shut down any kind of criticism of 3e, however civil.

>>96301795
>Lioness
Who?

>>96301827
A moderator on the majority of popular Exalted forms

>>96301795
>being a city gives you way more raw, on-demand power than being an E5 Solar

Not necessarily. Metropoli being multiple Essence 5 characters in 3e is a distinct possibility (as in, multiple drone bodies) without having heavy-hitting, cosmic-scale stuff. Urban infrastructure Charms could also just have relatively modest effects over a larger space.

>>96301579
This is because those themes were the only thing that remained from Apocalypse, it took a while for Forsaken to find its own identity, culminating in 2e's "the wolf must hunt".

Version wars are the weirdest thing ever because 3e seems perfectly fine to me. There are some things I am sad to see go, but it's not like they're gone. They're just in the 2e version and not the 3e version. Some huge exaggerations going on here.

DnD has the thing same thing going on. If you don't like the new edition it's okay. I find it rather charming. Plus you can complain about anything, say, I don't like how 3e has a bunch of charms that just mess with dice numbers in the core solar book. it's not really a huge deal.

Oh, and keeping track of homebrew with it is pretty hard. Not too bad, I just wish it was easier. in actual play the game feels great. I guess I wish there was an app for it something, seeing as how it's 2025 but maybe there are programs that help with keeping track of stuff that I'm just not aware of. I myself use notepad to keep track of things and it gets messy.

>>96301867
I mean at the minimum they definitely have building-sized Charms which are…pretty fuckin’ goddamn massive if the scale they work on is proportionate.

>could also just have
>could
See, it would be helpful if Alchemicals even had a sidebar confirming or denying this either way instead of just leaving me with one impression and you with another. But the 3e devs couldn’t even be bothered to do that.

>>96301910
It's weird in Exalted because not a single one of the 3 editions is playable RAW.

>>96301910
I’m not much of a version wars guy myself, I like different eds of nWoD just fine for example and while say-V5 is a bit weird to me, I can at least try to see where it’s coming from. Unknown Armies stands out as a game that, in my opinion, purely from a gameplay perspective definitely improved every edition and maintained reasonably consistent quality. And in the context of Exalted specifically, even though I liked 2e more than 1e because it’s what I got in on I can appreciate 1e for what it is and what was lost in translation.

I hate 3e SPECIFICALLY because the entire edition is defined by reactionary kneejerk rejection of many things I enjoyed in 2e. It would be like if a DnD edition shift told you that you should feel bad for wanting to play a cleric or something.

>>96301928
They're all kind of pieces of shit in their own way. The one (You) like is really just the one where the stuff that is slightly written well is stuff you think is cool and the stuff that is written poorly doesn't really bother you. I mostly ignore the canon Exalted setting in terms of specific characters and use so much homebrew that while I'm technically playing 3e if someone from my games went to another table they'd be confused as fuck.

>>96301921
I don't think that you can expect anything from Municipal Charms that far beyond the Lunar Wits territory stuff, like Forbidding Wilderness Perils, but mostly in reverse (instead of terrifying it's calming, instead of diseased it's clean, etc.)

>>96301998
The 3e book describes army destroying weapons and charms that work on a city level. They are so far above the current territory charms it's not funny. The devs just didn't want to balance them because they're fucking garbage.

>>96301998
Yeah no as >>96302029 said, taking 3e’s fluff about Metropoli at face value they have access to effects that are effectively Burning Sky Apocalypse Strike (before being bolstered by other Charms) but steampunk-themed at minimum. You have to take an extremely selective and obtuse reading to get around the view that actually yes, a demigod city is in fact intended by the writers to fight on a scale appropriate to a demigod city.

>>96301964
I will cop to this much at least. I just think 2e is the edition that motivated me the most to even bother engaging with the process of gutting everything awkward and retooling it for my own game, while 3e just makes me want to give up the hobby altogether.

>>96301998
>>96302029

I wouldn't hold out on getting a super-elaborate setup for huge weapons. Given the track record of 3e, it's likely just going to be an artifact harbor cannon in terms of mechanics, and one that you're directed to make up your own evocations for following multiple purchases of the Charm.

You can fantasize about other setups, sure, but you have the same books that everyone else does, and at best, you'll maybe get some beneficial effects for having certain specific Essence Pulse Cannon submodules.

>>96302552
There's not even a basic framework on how metropoli work, what the can do, and how they are to be interacted with. There's only vibes and cool ideas for charms. Which are fucking worthless in a game.

>>96301553
>The whole appeal of Infernals is the Yozis losing control over what they unleash,
I don't really see the appeal of Infernals as that. Its a chance to wield gross powers and be a hybrid of a Guyver and the Count of Monte Cristo. Getting one over on the Yozis is as simple as telling them you're going to walk out of Cecelyne to buy some milk and that you'll be right back, you promise.
>The Yozis are titanic, alien entities who got rolled by the equivalent of bacteria
This gets said a lot but I never really got why the conflict is oversimplified in such a way; the Exalted are as powerful or more so than the gods (who also helped kill the Primordials) and the first ones got to run around wielding extremely nasty weapons made by Autochthon.

In general I'm looking for something in Infernals to do that isn't dabbing on beings that are trapped. I'll reserve judgment until I see the manuscript instead of the CliffsNotes summary presented in Essence, but I feel like the stories centering around the personal revenge story of the Infernal players themselves is a little more interesting to me than telling a cosmic cripple to bite my ass.

This decreasing humanities literacy in tabletop RPG hipsters is a crying shame. Learning about how religions actually function and have functioned would prevent a lot of this dumb kerfuffle about "atheism", and provide verisimilitude in presenting how people day to day deal with the grand ordering narratives binding entire cultures and civilisations together and outlining their place from eternity into history, and the social roles responsible for maintaining that.

More things are de facto religions than you think. As an example, communism, which is explicitly atheistic and is ostensibly anti-religious, functions and has historically functioned as a religion, because religion doesn't function as something as simple as "the inbred mud people believe in le empirically unprovable sky daddy". Political commissars in the soviet military were literally Communist chaplains. Lenin is literally in his mausoleum presented like Orthodox relics. Communist literature makes literal prophecies about the future about how communism is "inevitable" all day. Communism isn't anti-religious - it's a competing religion. If it's competing for the same part of your life, it's a de facto religion.

Final note, I forgot where I read this, so if anyone else remembers this , but I read somewhere on an old anthropology blog tangentially connected to TTRPG spaces that the anthropologist equivalent of being a flat earther, is disbelieving in magic, due to the absurd frequency of western atheist anthropologists going on anthropological trips into living with jungle tribes, witnessing their voodoo actually working, then coming out spooked as hell. Reality isn't as boring and predictable as the materialists who want to sell you coca cola want you to think it is.

>>96302707
Just fuck off. This is such a meaningless conversation. Go on reddit if you want to argue about religion.

>>96302739

I'm not arguing about religion. What do you think my point was?

>>96302707
that's not true

>>96302651
At minimum, I wouldn't even expect that until at least the companion myself. A full set of Charms for a type of Exalted up to Essence 5 already takes up a huge chunk of the book; there wouldn't be any practical room to put anything else.

>>96302707
>due to the absurd frequency of western atheist anthropologists going on anthropological trips into living with jungle tribes, witnessing their voodoo actually working, then coming out spooked as hell.
lol you actually think that a bunch of white boys went into the jungle and saw this guy use his ultimate

>>96302707
>the absurd frequency of western atheist anthropologists going on anthropological trips into living with jungle tribes, witnessing their voodoo actually working, then coming out spooked as hell
Oh jesus you're a tourist. Those are the best-selling books the hack "anthropologists" write that are immediately discredited. Every. Single. Time. Go read the scholarly consensus on The Serpent and the Rainbow. You're talking some Graham Hancock levels of bullshit, my man.

>>96301158
>Liminals
These guys are just weird in general. They take from Geist and Prometheans and because of that they end up covering a lot of seemingly unrelated stuff.
>>96298875
Someone watched a marvel movie and decided to translate them into Exalted?

>>96303089

If you could remember where that quote was from, I'd like to track it down again.

>scholarly consensus

I find it hard to believe that scientists have never been wrong and especially have never had a wrong consensus, especially when socially pressured to adopt to a materialist orthodoxy or else they will be considered Not Serious Intellectuals.

I also find it far harder to believe that literally all of recorded humanity in every single culture in every time period on planet earth has simply been practising completely ineffectual nonsense that has no efficient effect on the world in any way. The long term consensus of literally all of recorded human history outweighs the new western dogma of materialism invented over the past 300 years.

>>96303246
NTA but evidence trumps no evidence. Beyond that, I don't doubt that magic or spiritual rituals practiced by different cultures have an effect on something, but that something may well be the malleable, impressionable and imaginative human mind. Did you have some specific instance of some magical practice actually, demonstrably working that can't be explained through psychology?

>>96303246
>I find it hard to believe that scientists have never been wrong and especially have never had a wrong consensus, especially when socially pressured to adopt to a materialist orthodoxy or else they will be considered Not Serious Intellectuals.
This is why it's ironic as fuck that you bemoaned:
>This decreasing humanities literacy

You're basically illiterate on this shit that you're trying to opine about.

No one claims that scholarly consensus is "right." That's the whole fucking point of scholarly consensus: drawing the best conclusions we can from the currently available data. The consensus changes, over time, as data is collected, new models are proposed and theories are tested and refined. Scholarly consensus isn't about what's "right." It's about "the best that the most knowledgable people in the respective field can from the best evidence and models that we've got."

The fact that you don't understand this is peek scientific illiteracy.

>>96302707
While I understand where you are coming from in regards to how people who don't really believe in the supernatural depict the supernatural in their stories, anthropologist believing in magic any more than other academic is just retarded. Even if people get spooked by minority religions that's just not a good basis to say "yeah spirits and shit totally exist" on a practical level, let alone something that should be published in an anthropological magazine.

>>96303343
Keep reading. He's defending magic because "well scientists can be wrong." He's confusing psuedo-archeology w/ science, and science with the humanities.

>>96287859 (OP)
What does one need to remember when creating an original martial art?

>>96303382
Wax on, wax off.

>>96303382
You need to have a theme and a limitation in mind. Let's say that you want to make a variant of the serpent style based on the jellyfish, you really shouldn't give them movement abilities.

>>96303350
Yeah I see that he is spouting a lot of nonsense.

>>96301598
while that kind of lore is neat, it is such a low priority thing the inclusion mostly comes off as backhanded.

>>96301555
Sure, what should I get for what kind of Exalted?

>>96303163
>They take from Geist and Prometheans and because of that they end up covering a lot of seemingly unrelated stuff.
I can see it with 1e!Geist's keys and thresholds.

Requesting some build advice, if you're willing.

>>96302707
this nigga just said verisimilitude unironically. told you it was high autism.

>>96304378
Ready, willing, and able. Do you have any idea what kind of character you're going for? Splat, caste, concept, and primary attributes and abilities?

>>96304378
Just take every Brawl charm.

>>96304412
Is this your first day on /exg/, or /tg/ in general, or RPG discussions in general?

>>96304541
lamo verisimilitude.

>>96304449
>>96304452
Alchemical, Soulsteel Caste. Concept revolves around being a scout, infiltrator and assassin so I'm angling for agility and subterfuge but with decent survivability and perhaps a big fuck-you Essence cannon if there's room left. Both a starting character and Essence 3, for the sake of seeing what it might look like.

>>96304678
Forgot to say, it's for 3e.

>>96304678
>>96304721
Not much I can hep with there. Grab the Essence Pulse Cannon in Dexterity and the Discrete Arsenal Installation upgrade. You'll come out of chargen with a long range weapon that can be used without breaking stealth, cannot be taken from you, and has a lot of powerful upgrades.

>>96305086
The cannon is a low priority but I'm thankful for the advice regardless. If it can be used without breaking stealth so much the better.

Abyssal concept: Puppeteer's Plague victim who has his own skeleton for a familiar. Or would it be a retainer?

>>96306076
Does she wear it like armor only to have it pop off her and re-assemble into a warrior? Sounds like some dumb shit out of a LN. You've just made a perfect concept.

>>96303343

Well, for some reason that quote stood out to me a lot when I found it. I haven't been able to find it again and investigate the surrounding claims of the person who said that. It was an old quote as well, from the late 90s mid 00s - perhaps the culture around anthropology changed since I last saw that quote.

Besides, I didn't just say "people were spooked by the local mumbo jumbo" - I meant people consistently saw unexplainable magical things working and came back spooked from. What I followed up with in >>96303246 was that the overwhelming evidence from all of human history in every culture that has ever existed points points towards at *least* some kind magic working *sometimes* in *some* places. Having literally all of it be ineffectual nonsense despite all of the historical evidence to the contrary is like thinking that basic intelligence wasn't invented until 300 years ago.

>>96303295
>No one claims that scholarly consensus is "right."

Then why try to pressure people to believe in the scholarly consensus as if it is right, instead of treating alternative views as seriously as scientists claim to be open to? I always see the scholarly consensus described in humble enough terms when it's defended like you've laid out, but then when it's actually used, it's clearly used bludgeon people over the head with scholarly consensus as if it had the force of actually being right.

It's used socially in reality far differently to how it's described on paper - on paper it's a humble effort to try and get the least bad conclusions drawn from the least bad data and models, but socially if you don't agree to change what you believe to fit the consensus then you're violating an orthodoxy, but in science-ese, the functional word for heretic is "illiterate", like how the word for heretic in communism is "revisionist". Same concept, different word.

>>96291876
I think the semi-official discord server losing most of the annoying posters because one of them got mildly chided for being passive aggressive has made people go back to posting there.

Quick reminder that this guy is here only to start arguements because he literally has no-one else to talk with. Doesn't matter if you don't reply, he'll start the arguement up himself hours after everyone has stopped talking to him. Let him be deluded in the tard cage of his own design.

>>96306782
So it's like a sewer. If you get banned from the more moderated level of discussion you flow down to a place of looser regulation. They stopped him from shitting in the streets for the sake of 'hygiene' so he moved to a place where designated shitting streets exist.

>>96306453
That or her skeleton is always inside her (giggity giggity) and takes over when it's time for combat because she's Mental/Social-focused and sucks at fighting.

>>96306806
>This isn't even my final form
-energy there. She better transfer her battered body into a Thousand-Corpse War Frame at the end so her enemies can summon their own Warstriders to fight her.

>>96304412

>not understanding basic caveman words

>>96303343

Besides, my intended main point *was* that people who don't believe in the supernatural, would benefit from doing a serious study into how non-strawman belief in the supernatural, and the non-material in general, actually works in terms of social cohesion, especially since the same exact structures operate the same way in ostensibly non-supernatural belief systems.

But that point was completely ignored in favour of arguing against a supernaturalist pov, which if understood, would lead to a better integration of supernatual elements into tabletop RPG - and that advocating for that point of view somehow means I'm simply illiterate.

>>96306782
Who'd they lose? I just popped in and it still looks the same.

>>96306762
>treating alternative views as seriously as scientists claim to be open to
Oh god you're one of these idiots. Look man, you're scientifically illiterate. I'm sorry to break it to you.

"Alternate views" means pseudoscience, is the answer to your question. The best experts examining the data and models that exist are not equivalent to some buffoon making false claims about the alignment of the pyramids or how hard it is to carve rocks. Some jackass on a book tour swearing up and down he saw real magic isn't equivalent. Alternate views are absolutely worth considering when presented in peer-reviewed journals with rigorous evidence. But the wacky shit some jackass makes up to dupe housewives and the "self-educated" youtube philosophers ain't the same thing.

>>96306762
>the functional word for heretic is "illiterate"
No it's because of your scientific illiteracy. As you just demonstrated. You are correct: expert opinions are considered, and the musings of retards are directed to the scientific consensus and told to shut up, because they don't know what the fuck they're talking about. Their fantasies aren't valuable or relevant and contribute nothing.

>>96307159
There are times when like home made remedies work and it takes years to find out why or how but they are rather rare and none of it is like healing crystal bullshit.

>>96307183
>And therefore magic and atlantis are real and the pyramids were made by aliens
It's true: sometimes the pharmocological value of plants isn't recognized until after they're studied. That doesn't make the wild bullshit someone did a youtube video you liked, on, is equivallent to actual science.

>>96307159
>>96307176

I miss old /tg/.

>>96307225
Try >>>/x/ instead. It's more your style.

>>96306905
Oh I understood it just fine. That's why I cringed so hard. It really was one of the most autistic things said in this thread. Not even the smallest lick of self-awareness.

>>96306762
God isn't real and neither is magic you weirdo. Holy shit. Just holy shit. You people try to act smart then talk about woohoo being real. How. how can you be this broken??

>>96306801
Aren't you the one saying magic is real and other crazy shit?

>>96307176
It's legit impossible to argue with someone who's so autistic that they think magic exists in the jungle. These retards are actually breaking down over the fact that they played atheist characters. just damn. Logic does not exists for these people, they just want to shit on an edition of a game that they don't know the rules for, while playing a game that has no resemblance to exalted 2e.

>>96307239
the guy has played fantasy games for long and is so autistic that he's confused what happens in a game to what happens in real life. I never thought I'd see the day...

>>96307239

>Consider taking supernatural elements more seriously and realistically in settings that have supernatural elements IC.
>But le scientific consensus! (OOC beliefs)

Old /tg/ actually took some effort to understand different weirdo points of view if they would possibly lead to a better or more interesting game. Now it seems like TTRPG players are shit scared of being thought of as weirdos, or of even being anonymously contaminated with wrongthink. Old /tg/ was comfortable with being thought of as weirdos and with interacting with other weirdos.

>>96307252
>Oh I understood it just fine. That's why I cringed so hard. It really was one of the most autistic things said in this thread. Not even the smallest lick of self-awareness.
"Verisimilitude" exist because the word "realistic" can lead to the mudcore brainrot.

>>96307333
>I'm not following the conversation
>But I'll misunderstand it for the sake of whining
Read the thing that's being responded to or stfu.

>>96307333
no one thinks your sane or less retarded for believing in magic and a skydaddy. also this is the fakest shit ever - you would always be made fun of for thinking magic is real. There was never a single moment in all of 4chan's history where you could post in /tg/ about how you think magic is real because of stuff that you think happened in a jungle. That never existed.

>>96307355
holllly shit. it's okay that you sounded like an embarrassing freak. You don't need to double down on it. like no one said they had trouble understanding, just that it was cringe and really, really, really stupid and autistic. As stupid as thinking magic is real. Or believing in ghosts.

Also? The alternative to science in woohoo. That's it. If it had any basis in reality it'd just be another one of the sciences. It's literally that simple.

>>96307333
See: >>96302707
>This decreasing humanities literacy in tabletop RPG hipsters is a crying shame.

This is the conversation you're opining on. You wanna talk about the hollow earth and space nazis and atlantis and magic crystals... whatever... in the context of a ttrpg?

Go for it.

You wanna spout psued bullshit while demonstrating total scientific illiteracy? Gonna get your ass called out.

>>96307411
>holllly shit. it's okay that you sounded like an embarrassing freak. You don't need to double down on it.
I am not the anon that first used the word "verisimilitude", I was just explaining why someone would use words with a specific meaning instead of using another more loaded one.

Verisimilitude = the world is consistent with itself.
Realistic = the world is like IRL.

A writer is an astronaut, they can take the readers to "real" or fantastical worlds, but without verisimilitude, the fantasy can easily fall apart.

>>96306913
>Besides, my intended main point *was* that people who don't believe in the supernatural, would benefit from doing a serious study into how non-strawman belief in the supernatural, and the non-material in general, actually works in terms of social cohesion, especially since the same exact structures operate the same way in ostensibly non-supernatural belief systems.
Agreed, but it is one of those things that requires a kind of effort, immersion, and risk to one's identity that in the vast majority of cases isn't worth it. If you go to a religious gathering trying to learn about them, you can get some of the most boring shit imaginable or some almost complete nonsense.
Maybe that's just my personal experience with religion and occultism acting mainly as a therapy substitute or scam really souring my views on the whole package. It mostly felt like an unnecessary lens filling the gaps in a way that is supposed to make things simpler via convoluted bullshit.

I feel bad about all this because not all people who believe in some woohoo or spiritual crap are autistic morons like said poster. It's fun stuff to talk about and think about.

It's just, my god. The lack of self-awareness. The idea that somehow /tg/ was a place where you could talk about woohoo that you HONESTLY think is real without being made fun of. The obsession with an edition war. I know the poster has to be human but my god is it hard to imagine. How is someone born so autistic without getting help their entire god damn life?

>>96307457
NTA, but this autistic arrogant atheist attitude is very cringe too.

>>96307466
>NTA
kek

>>96307446
oh my god it's spreading.

>>96307466
you think you can abracadabra people you walking joke lol.

>>96307469
What is your problem with what I posted.

>>96307477
>>96307467

I mean, I'm agnostic and know that tons of stuff now seen as mundane started as fantastic imaginings of people seen as madmen.
Arrogance like that is just cringy to see.

>>96307489
I was making fun of someone for being autistic and posting something that was easy to understand but also really stupid. Poster then acts like he was misunderstood, when he was not.

You also think he was misunderstood, which he was not. Therefore, you are autistic and retarded. I am trying to dumb this down more but it's proving to be really, really hard to do so.

>>96307498
Oh my god, I actually broke you. I'm sorry, I honestly feel bad.

>>96307516
My NTA post was quite literally my first reply to this whole conversation.
If anything, you seem to be going mad thinking I'm that guy or something.

>>96307506
When you post in an anonymous board, you are posting to all to see, I wasn't just posting for his sake.

>>96307539
...okay??? why is exalted filled with so many obvious retards. what the fuck lol. Is english your second language or something? You need to practice it.

>>96307542
HOW ARE YOU THIS STUPID? Hoooooow. Do you want to say fire is hot next? god damn.

>>96307555
Maybe; but some anons, and WW devs too, don't seem to understand how a conversation circle function.

Like this anon >>96307469 just did.

>Me when I ragebait.
We should post exalted waifus instead of whatever this is...
It would be a much more worthwhile endeavor.

I feel really bad for Autochhton. If he existed in our world he'd live in a world where technology is basically the all-defining factor for how powerful humanity gets to be. Instead he exists in a world defined by icky shit like 'narrative' and 'fate' where physics exists at the whims of magic and it doesn't matter how innovative humanity is because they can't use that magic.

>>96307639
This is mostly a 3e thing.

>>96307648
Pretty sure it's an every-edition thing.

>>96307639
Nah, autocthon would find IRL limits to be really, really shitty. Speed of light? The Law of Thermodynamics? Those aren't things you can out build or improve upon. I imagine he'd find it all quite limiting.

Malfeas on the other hand would fucking love nukes.

>>96307655
>>96307639
In 1e and 2e he literally got scared because of how quickly his students mastered his magitech specialty.

Reminder that the faggots making fun of people for "believing pseudoscience" spent the last handful of years insisting up and down that wearing a cloth mask on your face makes you immne to disease (until they walked it back later), that taking an untested vaccine that doesn't immunize you (plus monthly boosters) should be made mandatory under threat of losing your job, and that calling a medicine that was originally invented for humans and nailing its inventor a Nobel Prize "horse dewormer" because the unfunny talk show man told them so.

>>96307671
I don't think Autochton is particularly much of a power gamer like that desu. Consider how he favored humans, a race known for having absolutely no capacity to break the laws of physics that rule Creation, and whom were among the weakest most feeble species even in terms of creating magitech, simply because they were so reliant on their cultural rituals and meager tools.

This level of autism isn't normal, is he a discordite power tripping thanks for the anonymity? Will he move to /x/?

>>96307671
>Speed of light?
To be fair, exalted vehicles are really slow.

>>96307699
jesus christ anon that is so sad and pathetic...

>"I-m not schizophrenic! I'm just saying... maybe there's more out there."
>5 minutes later erupts into schizo shit

>>96306868
Idea: she was a shaman of some sort from a Northern tribe who contracted Puppeteer's Plague and, when all the remedies she took failed, decided to dabble into Necromancy in desperation which probably got her cast out. She died while she was performing a ritual in the hopes of curing or at least ameliorating the symptoms of her disease, but was contacted by one of the Deathlords and she accepted. The power of the ritual made her skeleton sapient and charged it up with juicy necromantic power, enabling it to learn Hungry Corpse Style that it can perform while puppeting her. She might even have a custom Shaping Ritual that lets her expel her skeleton to fight for her while she makes do with an artificial one made of solidified ectoplasm.

>>96307713
I mean, exalted in the real world would be interesting but I dunno. It'd would take a lot of imagining and planning and such. I'd also feel compelled to avoid world of darkness stuff.

I'm trying to think about how it'd work and I'm honestly drawing a blank and it really shouldn't be that hard to think of some ideas. Instead of the World of Darkness, it's Exalted in 2025. You want to keep the world as close to the current modern world as possible. Maybe make it take place ten years ago or something.

I want to say modern exalted was a thing but I'm pretty sure that has alternative history and stuff to it.

>>96307762
>I'm trying to think about how it'd work and I'm honestly drawing a blank and it really shouldn't be that hard to think of some ideas. Instead of the World of Darkness, it's Exalted in 2025. You want to keep the world as close to the current modern world as possible. Maybe make it take place ten years ago or something.
Now you made me think about exalted interacting with those people who developed codependency with AI.
Specially the Alchemicals.

>>96307762
I don't think exalted CAN be done with the real world. Like, the rules that govern reality and the rules that govern Creation are so different that you really can't really blend them at all.

>>96307722
>>96307724
>>96307729
>-t.

>>96307639
he probably would really like creation if he could just make what he wanted and didn't have to worry about which of his sibling-peer retards would smash his shit today or if the weapon-men he made to kill them would cast a leery eye in his direction

>>96298107
outliers like holden or daveb would come here, but i think if any staff come here they keep their mouths shut about it and are fairly low on the ladder

Reminder that Autochtonia has machine spirits that are pretty much AI.

>>96307973
The main difference is that IRL you can theoretically make an AI without requiring magic.

>>96307983
Irrelevant. Directing the confluence of Lightning Essence in order to power a construct of Crystal Essence and awakening it would be just a regular scientific procedure to an Autochtonian. Same as a Creationborn physician using acupuncture to drain corrupted Wood Essence from a wound in order to stabilize the patient's meridians.

>>96307999
Sure but I think Autochton would appreciate humanity a lot more in the real world given that we're not inherently limited to a bronze age tech level without divine help unlike the mortals in Exalted

>>96307791
Right? What would it even be? The world of exalted crashes, the wheel turns, the real world happens, the exalted and shit come back?

That's just world of darkness without the world of darkness. Which, and I have to be honest, sounds pretty fucking amazing.

>>96308062
>That's just world of darkness without the world of darkness. Which, and I have to be honest, sounds pretty fucking amazing.
This is basically the premise of ExVsWoD, you can pick or drop any element that you dis/like.

>>96308190
Personally I never really liked WoD desu but that's cause the setting is absolutely fucking schizo and makes no sense when you try to combine splats.

>>96308202
This is because WoD is a conjunct of game lines; despite them started from the same point, they ended up pretty different from their original pitches, but despite of this, they were forced together regardless of the lore/mechanics incompatibilities.

>>96308202
Just run one splat at a time, don't try to mix them. If you're playing mages, use only mage for all the stuff. If you're doing vampire, use only vampires. ectect.

>>96307973
... And?

>>96308050
Is there any particular reason to assume that mortal in Creation are inherently limited to Bronze Age tech? I mean, they're obviously not limited to literal Bronze Age tech, as they can make steel just fine, but there's also stuff like Southern steam cannons and Haslanti air ships that, while obviously a far cry from modern technology, are still pretty neat. Beyond that, is there some particular reason to assume that mundane technology in Creation is as advanced as it could possibly be? Like, the context that mundane technology exists in is one where more immediately powerful supernatural stuff exists, including magitech, and that doesn't seem like a situation that incentivizes maximal focus on the development of mortal-level technologies. Even a brilliant mortal driven to further his or her understanding of the world might well be drawn into studying occult matters or seeking the knowledge of spirits over tinkering with machines and calculations. Creation-born Isaac Newton might well become a sorcerer and spend his time on projects both useless and incomprehensible to non-sorcerers instead of revolutionizing physics. That's not an inherent limitation of humanity, though, it's just a case of different circumstances encouraging and facilitating different pursuits.

>>96303657
Lunar. Shapeshifting plus Yozi mutations is a horrific combination.

>>96302664
>I don't really see the appeal of Infernals as that.
Well you’re fucking wrong because the devs straight up said in 2e that wanting what the Yozis want is inherently bad for you.
>wielding extremely nasty weapons made by Autochthon
Maybe because almost none of the writing around the Primordial War actually clarifies what those weapons were, how important they were to the war effort, or even what they looked like.
>I’ll reserve judgement
To be honest I’m sure there’s a way to write whatever you’re after in a way that’s coherent to the kind of experience I want out of Infernals as well. The reason I am endlessly assmad at 3e, the devs, and the imminent Infernals manuscript is because I have seen enough published 3e material to have zero faith that an already hard sell concept can be done well.

…I think the most pleasant surprises I’ve had from 3e are what the Chivalry of Death was in Abyssals proper (as opposed to content in 3e core and one of the Adversaries of the Righteous Abyssals implying it would be a more literally chivalric code of conduct) and Alchemicals, and that was solely because they stopped trying to subvert expectations and just fucking did what older editions did.

>>96308529
I would argue that the main reason to assume that is the majority of example mortal societies from the Compass books in all editions. Although I would argue it’s closer to ancient China level tech (with some scattered magitech remnants elevating it to the Age of Enlightenment in a few cases) than Bronze Age tech.

>>96308655
I literally pointed out to external, contextual rather than inherent-to-humans reasons for that tech level. Location writeups do nothing whatsoever to seem those reasons seem less likely than humans just being limited like that for some reason.

>>96308529
>Is there any particular reason to assume that mortal in Creation are inherently limited to Bronze Age tech?
Because physics just straight up doesn't work the same as it does in the real world, IIRC the devs even said that stuff like gunpowder could not exist in Creation, the properties just aren't there to synthesize it. They are operating under fundamentally different rules, and even if they weren't, it would be so extremely easy for any faction to just...turn off their technology by slightly altering a property of nature in some way.

>>96308854
I kind of feel like we're talking past each other somewhat. Sure, physics work differently in Creation, and not all RL technologies would be possible there. It doesn't logically follow from that that the technology that's currently there is the most advanced that could possibky exist, however. Following RL technological progress and complete technological stasis aren't the only possibilities.

>it would be so extremely easy for any faction to just...turn off their technology by slightly altering a property of nature in some way.
That's not really an extremely easy thing to do for any faction.

>>96308809
>Location writeups do nothing whatsoever to seem those reasons seem less likely than humans just being limited like that for some reason.
…my bad, while I seem to have miscommunicated my point I also seem to have misread what you were actually talking about. To cut through all the bullshit: I agree with you.

>>96308638
Kimbery Akuma Lunar Chimaera is the only true path to the Lunar wyld-monstery-wytch-thyng archetype.

>>96308938
>That's not really an extremely easy thing to do for any faction
I'm pretty sure any one god related to technology could make a lot of shit inoperable and the more complex the tech the broader the kind of spirit that could fuck with it becomes.
For example, a fire or air spirit could stop a hot air balloon or engine from working. To be fair this kind of shit really don't happen in canon to the best of my knowledge.

>>96310151
I doubt it, as gods don't have full control over their area of responsibility. Like, a god of engines or whatever is employed to keep an eye on engines, make sure that engine-related matters work as they should and report to his superiots if something is messing with the proper functioning of engines. Power to change or disable the principles engines operate on is out of scope with his station, unnecessary for doing his job and in a way anathematic to his role - which is not to rule over the concept of engines but to supervise something that exists independently of him. As for spirits of fire and air, they're just elementals, and elementals neither can nor gave any incentive to change the fundamental nature and working of the elements. They could wreck an individual engine, to be sure, but so can a man with a sledgehammer, and yet the existence of sledgehammers hasn't prevented technological progress IRL.

>>96310151
They could make a lot of individual examples of technology inoperable or malfunctional via direct miracle, sure. The divine minister of gears and engines could easily cause a Nexus pulley cart to derail or a Haslanti air boat's fire to stutter and propellers to fling themselves to the earth, if they were willing to piss of the Guild/Haslanti gods. They could probably give a lot of people associated with their domain a hard time via their access to destiny-planning committees related to their station, or by interacting with the relevant departments as pertain to their portfolio (i.e. the above divine minister might go talk to someone in the Court of Seasons or Bureau of Nature about throwing some unkindly storms at a zeppelin developer). What they can't really do is just say 'i'm not going to do my job and therefore the gears and engines will stop working' or 'i'm going to actively sabotage my position in Heaven, thus destroying all the engines in Creation it is designed to report on and manage', nor can they say 'because I am the god of gears, I declare all gears and engines inoperable'. That just doesn't work. Most of Heaven's duties are reporting on things happening in Creation and pushing things around manually to make sure the damn thing keeps working, which is why you get things like wind spirits pushing clouds around and spirits of the earth seeding precious metals around the place.

>>96310151
Am this >>96310251 anon and basically what >>96310232 is saying, with the additional proviso that gods do get powers associated with their portfolio, but these powers are limited in scope and scale. A river god can make their river's banks flow over via miracle, not make their river fly into the sky. Maybe they could make it smash a bridge, but more likely they'd have to send their cultists to do it, or manifest personally to break the bridge. They do this via personal power, not paperwork.

>>96309082
>Lunars need a soul-binding contract of enslavement to their sworn enemies to get themes and shapeshifting options that aren't just furshit
Grim.

>>96310539
Despite it being capable of being portrayed as animal like or as an evolution of animal shapeshifting, the devs refused to give Lunars rubber man charms.

>>96310573
I will never understand why the devs hate TAW so much they'll actively kneecap Lunars both thematically and mechanically just to spite it.

>>96310251
>They could make a lot of individual examples of technology inoperable or malfunctional via direct miracle, sure.
That was what I was picturing. Like a northern fire god could reasonably kill a lot of people by snuffing out existing fires on top of preventing new ones from forming should if they have the desire to do so.

>>96310539
>>96310573
Aren't there charms that turn their arms into tentacles or something along those lines? Isn't that what Monkey Arm is supposed to represent?

>>96310617
>That was what I was picturing. Like a northern fire god could reasonably kill a lot of people by snuffing out existing fires on top of preventing new ones from forming should if they have the desire to do so.
Yeah, absolutely.

>>96310598
It is because they love "1e" and hate 2e.

To this day, they are trying to make 1e's sacred cows, like the elders and "animal savages", work.
They blame 2e for ruining Lunars, by moving away from the "narrow path".

I groaned so hard I hurt my throat when I read the 3e Lunars sourcebook and realized they made Ma-Ha-Suchi into Asgore from Undertale.

>>96310673
>Ma-Ha-Suchi into Asgore from Undertale.
I think it was a case of convergent evolution; they made him a canceled has-been to both prop up Raksi, and piss on certain aspects of old edition Lunars.
It is similar to True Voice and the thousands streams river.

>>96310647
I've never seen anyone blame 2E for ruining Lunars. I kind of feel like /exg/'s already had this discussion already, more than once, though. Is this the one where we start by misreading some discussion on SV?

>>96310847
>I've never seen anyone blame 2E for ruining Lunars
Lioness once did; specially Ma-Ha-Suchi, she claimed that 2e gave Lunars a reputation of rapist, while accidentally slipping up more 1e examples like Uka the boar.

>>96310847
The long and short of it is that Lunars started out ruined, then 2e fixed them before ruining them again, and then 3e showed up to take a shit on the ashes.

>>96310863
>>96310858
From what little I remember about the Lunars is that 2e lore made more explicit descriptions of what they did to get Beastmen on top of a lot of grimderp bullshit. In terms of mechanics they have always been kinda shit but people disagree why they don't work and how to solve that.

>>96310934
1e Lunars were pretty casual with their rape festivals, and even Grabowski joked about the dog fucking.

>>96310858
Ah, so it really is the "let's misread SV" episode. I've seen that one already and I don't think I care for a rerun.

>>96310934
2E Lunars were still less grimderp than 1E Lunars with its rape sidebars and such. At least 2E Lunars were trying to do something constructive.

>>96310967
>Ah, so it really is the "let's misread SV" episode. I've seen that one already and I don't think I care for a rerun.
Anon... Lioness went in a heated defensive mode when the other user began to post 1e Lunar material.
She even used end debate in a deleted post.

I was watching it, as it was happening

>>96310998
Forgot to mention; beforehand, there was a bit about 2e's FA!Ma-Ha-Suchi depiction being an awful portrait of a queer person written by a homophobe.
One use was even temporarily banned from the thread because of it.

>>96310998
>>96311033
I've seen that discussion, too, and it just didn't go the way you claim, plain and simple.

>>96311089
Hi Lioness.

>>96311121
Go ahead and link the discussion do we can all merrily debate its meaning.

>>96310647
The narrow path isn't so narrow. The broad path is unintelligible.

(That was my Man of Many Names from Shadowrun impression. How was it?)

Everything about who can do what in Exalted is extremely arbitrary. That's why the Solars, who are primarily about arete, sunfire, and raw force with few visual hooks beyond light and fire are still setting the pace for everyone, even when the Solars should be logically limited way harder.

Conversely, tossing in everything shapeshifting related into a single character type makes it very difficult to establish what they're about and exactly what kind of character you're shooting for. Lunars are established animal shapeshifters; that was always the plan from the beginning, such as we can say there was anything intelligible or useful about GCG's outline. The botched execution of this idea does not mean that it cannot work.

>>96310858
2e gave Ma-Ha-Suchi, specifically, the reputation as a perpetual mass serial rapist who raped most of the wolf and goat folk around the Nameless Lair into existence on his lonesome and continues to put it into his captives. This goes far beyond 1e's "it's a terrible world where terrible things happen, but maybe you can decide not to go along with it" sidebars and on into being Mega-Rance.

>>96311148
>The narrow path isn't so narrow
It was so narrow that the devs had too add "give your characters different weapons ro distinguish them" suggestion, 1e!Lunars were a splat built around a single charm (DBT)

>>96311173
Yes, an arbitrary system where the lack of variety is entirely an artifact of not incorporating even what would have been in the Lunars' wheelhouse - swarm forms and clones, quick shapeshifting, actually having fucking follow-through on Tool-Hand Technique to produce better versions of it following the same aesthetics... There was a line drawn for relying on shapeshifting, and 1e walked back and set it at some place around "animal shapeshifting, but frequently not even being able to do things that actual animals could do".

If you don't do that, it's not a narrow path any more, and you don't need to worry about any dumb shit brought up in the infamously bad ST section of 1e Lunars.

>>96311439
According to ancient rpgnet threads, Holden didn't see much of a problem with it, despite admitting that it was a problem.

>>96311132
nta and I'd have liked to see it too but they said it was in deleted posts, dumbass?

>>96311836
No, he said there was a deleted post, not that the entire discussion was in deleted posts. Last time we had this discussion, I'm pretty sure an anon posted the discussion starting hereaboutshttps://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/general-exalted-thread.44/page-2439, and the one deleted post there - preserved as a quote in someone else's reply to that post - was just one where a cat walked across the keyboard or something like that, leading to a lot of 1111111.

>>96311148
Lunars were a bad idea from the onset yes. Animal exalted are lame and 3 editions of lunars have proven it true. We really only have enough for one boring exalt (solars). Adding lunars was always redundant and they still don't do much more than solars outside of shapeshifting. Shapeshifting should be a tool, not the entire fucking toolkit.

Also 2es lunars is just a continuation of 1e. Ma-Ha-Suchi in 1e is assumed to be doing those things rather than outright stated in vivid detail. Which is a massive problem with 2e. It definitely had writers who loved rape and loved to write about it but it's not like it's a giant leap from what we were originally presented.

>>96311836
>>96311951
Aside from that link, I'll add that I also fairly regularly lurk the SV megathread, and if there was a Lunars-related shitshow that led to multiple deleted posts, I'm pretty sure I'd remember that.

>>96311974
>Lunars were a bad idea from the onset yes. Animal exalted are lame and 3 editions of lunars have proven it true
We already reached 5 editions, if you count ExVsWoD ans Essence.

>>96311951
Here is the debates about first age Ma-Ha-Suchi.

https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/general-exalted-thread.44/page-2441#post-26468405

>>96312262
They seem to really dislike Alan Alexander

>>96312262
>https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/general-exalted-thread.44/page-2441#post-26468405
And not one post blaming 2E for ruining Lunars in sight...

>>96310967
>>96310956
Fair enough.

I'm so lost as to what we're talking about. That Lion person, wasn't he complaining about the rape pits and how that's all anyone remembers from 2e lunars and how it basically soaked up all discourse?

Same with Raksi eating babies, it was all anyone ever said about her. Raksi ate babies because she was a bad ass divine monster and you are meat for said divine monster. If you don't want your babies eat, stay the fuck away. As cool as I think that is it's also pretty one note and all anyone talked about for her so...

All I know about 2e lunars desu is the rape pit where people get knotted by monster cock. It's fetish stuff. Honestly shocked people were so turned on by it. I do get that it sucks when your fetish is removed from a game you like but dang.

>>96312286
I guess he wrote a lot of the weird sex stuff in 2E. I don't think Exalted needs or should be a sexless PG13 setting, and I think 3E has gone too far in that direction, but some of the stuff in the previous editions was pretty cringe. Also Alan Alexander looks like this https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Alan_Alexander, apparently, which isn't doing him any favors combined with magical realm writing.

>>96312428
We're talking about anon replacing the actual discussion in that thread with his own rewrite full of easy-to-ridicule strawmen, I think.

>>96312443
>Proud of his burly Dionysian physique
LOAM

>>96312428
Raksi being a pedophile cannibal is a meme since 1e days

>>96312468
Was Raksi a rapist too? I thought she just ate babies, it never said she fucked em. rather confident at least. Or did she have young lovers or some other weird shit?

Is eating a baby pedophilia if it gets you off but you're not fucking the baby? i'm confused.

>>96312468
Raksi being a cannibal is an explicit fact, not a meme, but 1E clearly states that her preference, both sexually and culinarily, are young, good looking men and women. Men and women, not boys and girls.

>>96312483
She was described has having a hunger in both "stomach and loins".

>>96312486
so is she fucking 20 year olds or babies because that's a pretty big difference.

>>96312508
I mean, I get that the difference between a man and a boy or a woman and a girl isn't clear-cut, but it's still pretty wild tgat you need to ask whether the "young men and women of great beauty" that Raksi preferred to both fuck and eat might refer to babies. No, 1E Raksi preferred adults, and while there was IIRC an instance of baby-eating in 1E, that wasn't Raksi's mainstay. Obviously the occasional baby-eating is pretty vile, too, as is eating adults. 1E Raksi was as bathsit insane and monstrous as the 2E Raksi, but it's kind of funny who baby-eating, specifically, has become the thing most strongly associated with her.

>>96312508
This is the text of her hunger.

>>96312553
When you put in dark stuff like that it does tend to make it the sole focus of the character. Who cares that you can hang out or that she has her own thing going on, she eats babies. That's good though, fucking babies is something you can't come back from. Eating babies is more acceptable then fucking them.

that is an issue though. add dark thing, people get hyper focused on it, character is reduced to one note and change is now considered butchery. Look at fish malks in World of Darkness. But yes, them wording that in a way that sorta hints at her fucking babies is just. what. whaaaat.

>>96312568
huh. Well, I'm just glad she's not fucking kids and babies. I take the young men thing to mean 20 year olds because well, what the fuck. You'd call them children if they were younger then that.

>>96312612
Is the whole first fucking and then eating adukt captives thing not dark enough gor you?

>>96312612
>But yes, them wording that in a way that sorta hints at her fucking babies is just. what. whaaaat.
What? No, anon, there's nothing anywhere hinting at Raksi being a pedophile. What the fuck, anon?

>>96312628
Considering they come from the surrounding tribes, they are likely in the ~16 years old range

>>96312632
She has a "great hunger for young men and women of beauty" apparently. I hadn't read the text block yet, I was just listening to what people had to say about it. Her being a pedo has come up quite a few times apparently?

The text block seems to be clear enough, she's raping people in their 20's who she thinks is hot after abducting them. this is way, way less weird then what I thought people were saying but still really weird.

I agree with you though, for what it's worth. Raksi eats kids, she does not fuck them.

>>96312653
16 year olds are still children and the ~16 makes it seem like she's willing to go even younger then that. Tbh though it's just funny that apparently it's up for debate whether a character in a table-top game RAPES CHILDREN.

fucking peak autism. in a good way, for once. god damn hilarious. fuck we are weird for playing this game.

>>96312612
Raksi didn't really anything else about her, most of her write up is about her hungers, the rest about how powerful and cruel she is.

Basically Queen Nakari from Solomon Kane

>>96312675
20 years olds being adults is a fairly recent concept, some cultures can be as early as 13.

>>96312732
Especially since 1e lunars doesn't actually have tools of helping others survive those tribes probably have most people die at 20-30.

>>96312628
>I take the young men thing to mean 20 year olds because well, what the fuck. You'd call them children if they were younger then that.
>19 yo are children
lol
children are like 12 or 14 tops

>>96312675
you are right exalted and most of human history aren't all that wholesome

>>96312732
>>96312762
Oh god damn, what is this. Quantum pedophilia? You say their isn't any and all of a sudden they start showing up to tell you that 14 year olds are adults?

I now suddenly understand why people think Raksi fucks children.

>>96312785
>You say their isn't any and all of a sudden they start showing up to tell you that 14 year olds are adults?
There is a stage between adulthood and childhood you seem to want to ignore?
That's all I'm pointing out.

>>96312785
Raksha fuck children and no-one's taking a crusade to kill them.

>>96312785
People don't think Raksi fucks children, though. This thread is the first time I've heard of it, and I'm pretty sure you're the only one who's said it.

>>96312785
you reminded me of this meme.

>>96312809
A lot of people go out to kill raksha, though. Well, a lot of Exalts, at least. Raksha-killing is an age-old Exalted oastime.

>>96312796
Teenagers aren't kids? wat. I mean, I suppose if you're a teenager yourself you'd think that. Any adult who fucks a 14 year old needs a bullet in the head, let's be clear on that.

>>96312809
How much pedophilia is canon in this setting god fucking damn. Are there any other instances of canon kid fucking going on? What the fuck lol.

>>96312796
What are you on about? There's childhood, then adulthood. Anything inbetween is a collective hallucination pushed on you by other people. Ask why they would want that. Why they would want to continue to infantilize people for longer than absolutely necessary?

>>96312755
According to 1e, the rites of passage into adulthood, begins at puberty.

>>96312841
As a simple biological fact, human brain develops gradually, it doesn't just suddenly turn from the childood mode to the adulthood mode.

>>96312819
I wasn't the one who pointed out or posted the article about her having lust for young men and women. Again, I thought she just ate babies. This is the first I've heard about the kid fucking myself. To me young men and women means 20 year olds, other people are saying it means 14 year olds.

It's either a yes or a no this isn't really hard.

>>96312841
If you're a teenager none of this matters. So it's nothing for you to think about. However, an adult man fucking a 14 year old is a pedophile. That's just how the words work.

what the fuck is going on.

>>96312856
No, you're just the one who keeps talking about baby-fucking, something no one else ITT has done and that isn't in any way hibted at in the 1E Raksi writeup anon posted.

>>96312832
>Teenagers aren't kids? wat. I mean, I suppose if you're a teenager yourself you'd think that. Any adult who fucks a 14 year old needs a bullet in the head, let's be clear on that.
Childhood can by itself be divided into 3 parts (baby, child and prepubescent), teenagers can be in 2, the second part are basically adults, but the time they take to reach it varies.

>>96312855
It only really stops changing when a person dies.

>>96312832
>Teenagers aren't kids?
teenagers are teenagers.
They are more developed than kids yet less developed than adults.
And infantilizing them only creates childish adults.
Also never open a history book you will die of a hearth attack.
If you realize why platonic love is called that you will die.

>>96312883
Sure, but change and development, or maybe I should say maturation, aren't really synonyms.

>>96312876
This is a grown ass man posting this shit isn't it. jesus. I was hoping it was just a kid upset about being called a kid. but this is an actual adult man. why.

>>96312889
>Also never open a history book you will die of a hearth attack.
Or just see how old the soldiers who fought during the world wars were.

>>96312895
Use your words to communicate thoughts, not to imply vague vibes.

>>96312895
I actually deal with children and teenagers, you don't treat a 7 years old as you do with 2 years old baby, each stage of a person youth needs different things for them to develop well.

>>96312870
>"don't exaggerate fucking children with fucking babies."

holy shit. I just made a statement asking if she fucked babies because it felt like people were hinting she was a pedo. The whole "lust in her loins" that was pointed out. Now we have all the rats coming out saying 14 year olds aren't children. It was not meant to be that serious. Did you forget that I actually LIKE Raksi and that she eats babies?

What is going on.

>>96312903
...And what was I implying? Use your brain because this requires a little thought.

>>96312925
>What is going on.
Some anon pointed out that 1e!Raksi was also a rapist, now anons are unsure how young her victims were.

>>96312940
You were throwing a shitfit over a fairly uncontroversial division of phases of human maturation. I got that, that's the vague vibe I was talking about. There's obviously some kind of a misunderstanding either about what anon was saying or what words like kid, teenager and adult mean behind that vibe, however, and when I asked you to use your words to communicate thoughts I was hoping to get a better idea of just what that misunderstanding is.

>>96312925
Anon, nobody's hinted that she's a pedo. You're the one who, for some bizarre and probably repulsive reason, keeps talking about pedophilia. Why are you doing this? Isn't cannibalism edgy enough for you?

>>96312785
This is what the culture was. 18 being adults is a relatively modern idea.

>>96312844
Historically that's been the case. Though not all cultures forced you to get into a relationship immediately at 13.

>>96313035
>Historically that's been the case. Though not all cultures forced you to get into a relationship immediately at 13.
One thing to note is that, for women at least, the average of the onset of puberty has declined significantly in the last couple of centuries. I believe the same is true of men, but I'm less certain of that. At the very least men generally reach their full adult height at a younger age in the modern day than they used to in the centuries past. Point being that even if puberty=adulthood, a 13-year-old in the premodern world might well not be there yet for a while.

>>96312940
Anon you basically imply that anyone that makes a distinction between a teen and a child is a pedophile.
Do you think people won't get defensive when under such accussation?

>>96313005
it's hard to talk to you when you make stuff up.
>>96313035
It's just so off topic that it caught me off guard.
>>96312995
Yeah this has apparently been a topic for a very, very long time. I see why 3e is trying to get some distance, it really does bring out the worst of us to the game line. Hard to get new people to play the game when a bunch of old people keep talking about how it's normal to think of 13 year olds as adults and the historical accuracy of such.

actually worse then Bronies.

>>96313035
>Historically that's been the case. Though not all cultures forced you to get into a relationship immediately at 13.
Yes, but in this case, they are human sacrifices

>>96313069
*the average age of the onset of puberty

>>96313082
>Yeah this has apparently been a topic for a very, very long time. I see why 3e is trying to get some distance, it really does bring out the worst of us to the game line
3e kept the baby eating, but was forced to change it to "youth" eating

>>96313069
I mean that's still the case for some people now even though our diets have shifted age was still used to define adulthood regardless of age.

>>96313082
I mean are we playing a game that factors in what living in the bronze/iron age was like or is the setting just completely pointless? For the record, the realm gets to uses adult as 18 because people on the blessed isle can live to 60+ years on average. The people in the threshold living in harsher and deadlier environments do not have that luxury because they live in a much more dangerous location and deal with capricious and unrestricted gods and fair folk. Acting like it makes sense for people who live a harsh life and might not make it to modern adulthood is kind of just nonsensical.

>>96313121
*Gets to view adults as 18

>>96313074
...Yes?

also damn look at what this thread turned into. where is chris hansen.

>>96313082
>Hard to get new people to play the game when a bunch of old people keep talking about how it's normal to think of 13 year olds as adults and the historical accuracy of such.
This is the mentality that turns everything into bland mush.
>What do you mean a setting inspired by classical age cultures is not in pace with current day morality?
>What do you mean a bad guy does bad guys stuff?
>If you defend it you are a pedophile!
This is how a child unironically thinks.
Go play I dunno Deltarune oh wait that also has dark themes.
I suppose Bluey might be more up your speed?

>>96313149
You sound overly-defensive. Do you really think attacking everyone who doesn't step to your orders makes you sound less like a pedophile?

>>96313149
Are you feeling okay, anon? You serm to be weirdly upset about normal, generally accepted divisions between different ages and developmental stages. Beyond that, you seem to be attaching sexual meaning to these divisions in a way that is, frankly, creeoy as fuck.

>>96313149
You're focusing heavily on when a child becomes an adult and attaching that to sexual activity. You want to take a seat over here and explain that?

>>96313170
Maybe that anon was shocked by 1e!Raksi, an anon mentioned liking her.

Holy shit, saying 14 and 16 year olds are children really brings out all the rats doesn't it. The My Little Pony Fandom had this exact same issue with Bronies.

>>96313158
>>96313170
same joke that's basically an admission of defeat. I'm just trying to help you, because if you say the shit you're saying IRL you're going to seem like a freak.

>>96313198
We're not the ones breaking down the age range between childs and adults and trying to say when its okay to fuck them. Re-read your words, anon. Actually read them, then say them to someone else and see how fast they recoil as they realize they're talking to a closeted pedophile.

>>96313198
Anon, they aren't children, they are youths, treating them as children is the worst thing a parent can do.

>you cannot scold me, I am a baby/child!!!

>>96313211
Nobody said it is OK, only that it is likely that Raksi did it.

T. Again break

>>96313194
Honestly, this is a good thing. We now know a lot of grown ass men who post here think 14 and 16 aren't children. It makes it extremely easy to out them IRL as being freaks.

Just say "Hey, this pedophile fucked a 16 year old" and watch a bunch of retards go out of the way to say that, technically, that's something else. Then, you know, block them forever. because who the fuck wants to game with someone like that.

>>96313198
It wasn't a joke, anon. You are genuinely being creepy as fuck, and if you're not just trolling, you should probably go see a psychologist. Also go ahead and declsre IRL that teenage isn't real and people who distinguish childhood, adolescence and adulthood - which is a standard, widely accepted division, mind you - are pedophiles. See whether people treat you as a stable, well-adjusted adult after that.

>>96313220
No buddy, you just did something that would out you as a horrible disgusting creep if you did it IRL. Or even in a text group. No one expects you to have social awareness but even extremely autistic people are better at this then you. Which is odd. Because you are clearly autistic.

okay i actually feel bad for that because even autistic people aren't that gross. fuck. i'm sorry autistic. i really do like spending time with you.

>>96313220
If you're going to be disingenious and outright lie like a lawyer on trial then there's no point to attempt to talk to you like a real person instead of someone who literally can't accept their position is wrong instead of inventing a strawman in their head and making it speak. Retreat to /pol/ and stay there.

>>96313227
You. You have the time to game with that considering you are seriously accepting his position that fucking children is okay as long you call them teens instead of children.

>>96313234
You have, 100% had someone react to you like you were disgusting. The thing you just said would happen to other people? That 100% happened to you. It was justified too, because god damn anon. just god damn.

16 year olds are children btw.

>>96313227
You are not supposed to look at raksi as a 1000+ year old exalt raping 14-16 year olds as a good thing. People talking about how the mindset that the tribes would have in allowing that to happen. Raksi is a problem meant to be dealt with though and I don't see how that's an issue.

>>96313227
How badly will your mind be bliwn when you realize that developmental psychologists, educators, parents of teenagers and so on also make a distinction between children and adolescents? Law, too, depending on the country. Criminal liability, right to drive certain motor vehicles and so on come before legal adulthood but firmly in the teenage years rather than childhood in a lot of places. Are legislators in a country that, say, lets 15-year-olds but not younger people drive mopeds, drawing a clear distinction based of expected cognitive and behavioral maturity at that age, pedophiles to your mind?

>>96313268
>You are not supposed to look at raksi as a 1000+ year old exalt raping 14-16 year olds as a good thing.
But it makes me horny therefore it's completely justified.

>>96313255
wat. I mean I would entertain anything if it gets people to say shit they would normally not talk about. this whole conversation is hilariously gross. I'm fairly sure I'm on your side though. Do you want me to knock it off? I'll knock it off.

Behold! The pedos expose themselves as they refuse to accept the maturity of adults against the immaturity of non-adults.

>>96313284
I prefer the monster fucking and pregnancy charms. Take the knot.

>>96313247
>No buddy, you just did something that would out you as a horrible disgusting creep if you did it IRL
Anon... did you ever saw a toy package? Or a tv age rating?
There are a lot of toys that couldn't be given to babies (age 3 or under) because it is too dangerous.

>>96313305
READ WHAT YOU WRITE.
Actually read it. Understand it. Actually understand what you wrote instead of refusing to accept that you have fucked up.

>>96313289
Does that maturity change into maturity at once when one turns 18, or rather gradually, what do you think? I do agree that the guy who somehow finds the concept of teenagers inherently sexualized and projects those feelings onto everyone else is a creepy pedo, though. You do understand that the people saying that teenagers are neither children nor afults aren't the one's sexualizing them, right? The guy who apparently thinks that calling a 16-year-old a teenager is the same as wanting to fuck them is, and very transparently so.

>>96313317
>>96312876

Childhood can by itself be divided into 3 parts (baby, child and prepubescent), teenagers can be in 2, the second part are basically adults, but the time they take to reach it varies

>>96313326
Or does that immaturity change into maturity at once, rather.

Pedophilia si when you recognize there are degrees of development for humans.
Or that the standards of of what adulthood is was different in the past.

>>96313339
>Or does that immaturity change into maturity at once, rather
Depends on the person development, the later parts of teenhood is when you know for sure.

oh my god.

>>96313358
Some anon mentioned the lack of a Lunar shitstorm during the last thread

>>96313363
Well, this os hardly a Lunar shitstorm, because even though it started with Raksi, none of this is really about Lunars. It's just one anon either trolling or projecting some truly dark repressed desires onto the rest of the thread. I hope it's the former.

>>96313382
Can you quote a few of your posts, please?

It's just one guy that refuses to stop replying to himself until other people reply to him to support his delusion of being someone important enough to notice. The sooner he slips ups and gets banned the sooner these threads can slow down and be filled with actual discussion about why Charm Bloat needs liposuction.

>>96313403
This is the newest argument we've had in months.

>>96313382
I think that anon is just really defensive about Raksi, since he jumped straight to "they are actually 20 years old" when the allegations began.

Just because its being engaged with doesn't make it good.

I would rather have people post hourly with their Charm ideas than listen to one more schizo have a break with reality and argue with everyone trying to bring him back.

>>96313474
She's a great character and text seems to suggest that she fucks young adults instead of, you know, children. A few articles about her were posted though, and from what I can tell no one is younger then 20 if even that young.

fuck maybe she is a pedo and fucking 14 year olds. that would make her way lame though, she's supposed to eat kids. whatever though. this conversation feels lost.

>>96313491
>Charm ideas
I am planning to give Hearteaters more capture style combat charms, but I am not familiar enough with Essence to pull it off, does somebody have any tips?

>>96313516
Its literally just a semantics argument.
Young man/woman is also used to talk to teens.
"Young man you are not supposed to behave like that!"

>>96313559
Not really? It's a yes/no argument. Does she or doesn't she, is she or isn't she. I have to admit, I'm a bit confused on this.

Imagine being Ma-Ha-Suchi at the yearly meeting of the Lunar Pact elders and having to be all like "damn, Raksi, you fuckin' fine, all sexy with your Wyld-mutated body and horrific androgynous monster face. I would totally have sex with you, both my spirit shape and the human me" when all he really wants to do is fuck another Dragon-Blooded in his rape camp. Like seriously imagine having to be Ma-Ha-Suchi and not only sit around the campfire while Raksi flaunts her disgusting body in front of you, the incense burners barely concealing her baby blood breath, and just sit there, talk after talk, hour after hour, while she perfected that dance. Not only having to tolerate her monstrous fucking visage but her haughty attitude as everyone tells her she's STILL GOT IT and DAMN, RAKSI LOOKS LIKE THAT?? because they're not the ones who have to sit there and watch her mannish fucking monkey face contort into types of grimaces you didn't even know existed before that day. You've been fucking nothing but a healthy diet of Solars and later ALLEGED rape camp victims for your ENTIRE CAREER coming straight out of the bathhouses of the First Age. You've never even seen anything this fucking disgusting before, and now you swear you can taste the sweat that's breaking out on her baby entrails-stuffed stomach as she sucks it in to writhe it suggestively at you, smugly assured that you are enjoying the opportunity to sit there and revel in her "celestial (for that is what she calls herself)" beauty, the beauty she worked so hard for with baby blood sacrifices in the previous months. And then Tammuz calls for another round of talks, and you know you could kill every single Shahan-ya in this meeting before the Full-Moons could put you down, but you sit there and endure, because you're fucking Ma-Ha-Suchi. You're not going to lose your future political favors over this. Just bear it. Hide your face and bear it.

>>96313559
And she targeting youths was mentioned in the texts

>>96313565
It is because anon assumes young man means young adult so he assumes early 20 while while young man also refers to teens.

>>96313581
I would say that implies younger than an adult

>>96313537
It's fundamentals are too seperated from Exalted 3E. You need to play a campaign of E.Essence to understand it. Just reading the rules won't help, you need to understand how real people interact with its systems.

May I reccommend some Infernals?

Kill Sol Invictus. Behead Sol Invictus. Roundhouse kick Sol Invictus into the concrete. Blast Sol Invictus in the kneecaps. Slam dunk Sol Invictus into the trashcan. Stomp Sol Invictus's skull and tell him to touch grass. Karate chop Sol Invictus in half. Judo throw Sol Invictus into a wood chipper. Privy Sol Invictus to the existential horrors of being a fictional anime femboy losers goon to. Turn Sol Invictus into a great soft jelly thing with no mouth with which to scream.

>>96313633
Amazing. You mispelled The Scarlet Empress every single time.

>>96313491
Instead of Auras, Infernals get Crowns w/ applicable Levels of Essence repsiration. Representing their Caste Mark appearing then extending/morphing beyond their head into a floating halo/crown/living flame. Aside the constant green sun radiation bathing everything around them.

Okay. Next Thread. We're going to focus on Charms and how to avoid bloating them. Agreed?

>>96313874
I think it's possible to keep the solar 3e dice tricks without bloating their whole charm set with reroll and number go up charms. I know people love rolling and rerolling dice but it just feels excessive to me.

Imo they really just suffer from being the first book released. How do you 'fix' that.

>>96313899
By re-releasing them after a couple of other races have been released and you've learned some things.

>>96313899
>Imo they really just suffer from being the first book released. How do you 'fix' that
Mortals demo

>>96313899
I would say that there should be multiple excelencies that cover all generic dice tricks for each exalted kind then all other charms must do something else.
That's it simple solution.

>>96313874
>We're going to focus on Charms and how to avoid bloating them. Agreed?
How many charms are too many?

>>96313926
I thought about this desu but then all you're going to get, at least from what I can figure, is a loop where the other previous splats now need to be redone as well. I need to explain this better.

So you have X splats after solars. You re-release solars. Now the splat that comes rather after solars is now the new solars. Nothing is fixed, the issue is just passed down. I feel like the logic follows at least, I'm still thinking about it.

>>96313945
No. I get what you're poking at. The endless stream of errata condensed into just new editions of the same book. You've learned how to make better Solars from making worse Lunars, Alchemicals, etc. But now you need to apply what you've learned from Solars 2E to Splats:Lunar, etc. 2E.

There is no answer to that that isn't
>Release a new edition incorporating everything we learned
Which sticks you into an endless cycle of either errata, or just never being good enough.

At that point I'd say hand it over to the players to homebrew whatever shit the've found works for them. Since we don't have deadlines or constraints to work under. Just what we like using.

>>96313899
I actually really hate solar dice pools. The idea that rolling a literal bucket of dice for everything disgusts me and makes me think very little of the people who enjoy it. Their powers should mean more.

>>96314147
Explain what you mean by that. While I quickly re-read 3E Core super-fast.And by super-fast I mean in about a week since that's when I get a holiday.

>>96314155
I mean I'm not really saying anything obtuse. Solars are designed to roll 50+ dice than reroll 50 times. That kind of design is awful.

>>96314165
I meant the part where you said
>Their powers should mean more.
What does that look like to you?

>>96314165
I mean, digital dice rollers do help an incredible amount with that. I prefer small numbers doing huge things then big numbers doing huge things myself, but eh.

If any splat should roll a ton of dice it'd be the solars I suppose.

>>96287859 (OP)
thread's about to die, but whatever, this was the time i could get
notes once again compiled by dixie and not rich so might be less accurate
Weekly Update
>DEVELOPMENT
Abyssals Companion: Riders from the Sunless Lands
A few bits and bobs are lurking in the shadows still, but enough of the manuscript has stepped into the light so we can move on to development!
>Art Direction
Sidereals Companion – Working up Art buy
Essence PG -Working up Art buy
>Layout
Ex3 Miracles of the Divine Flame
>Press
Essence Novella Omnibus – PoD Prepped
small progress this week

>>96314246
I mean like instead of giving to dice just give them really strong effects. If someone investigates each success means they get to determine one clue. If they punch someone they get to do a certain amount of automatic damage. Its just easier to make it so that their charms provide effects rather than just being because they get 50 dice they get to run through everything.

>>96314313
Understandable. Thought the exact same thing, but just wanted to be sure you hadn't decided on something more. Should be simple to change, just change every charm that rerolls into an automatic success and everything that adds a dice gets changed into a thematic punch-up to the action the charm describes.

>>96311974

3 editions of quitting on the concept prove absolutely nothing but that people continue to go 1e Lunar writers on the concept. Hire other people.

>>96314292
>Abyssals Companion
I don’t hope for much from 3e, but I at least hope it has a few more example E5 Abyssal Athletics Charms. Even I can see Abyssal Charm design as an improvement over Solar Charm design because it’s both more streamlined, on-theme and mechanically sound. I just wished that one of the example E5 Athletics Charms didn’t need a building to take effect by RAW. It’d be really nice if instead you could just make an Athletics + Strength check or something to sumo stomp the shadowland into existence for those of us either not fighting in an urban area or who don’t want to go through the awkwardness of having your friend build a small hut just to push it over, just saying.

>>96313995
>Release a new edition incorporating everything we learned
>hand it over to the players
Yeah, pretty much. By now it’s apparent the problem isn’t even systemic, it’s down to competence-and back when we had homebrew, we’ve proven sufficiently motivated anons are better at writing Exalted games than the entire remaining 3e writer team for some FUCKING reason.

3e vowed to never need any errata, only to immediately show errata was in fact desperately needed from the corebook onwards.

>>96309082
Okay but consider: Malfeas’ Devil-Tiger Avatar Shintai lets you liberally abuse the mutations system, Cecelyne lets you wish mutations onto yourself, Adorjan is fun if you ever want to be MULTIPLE biological anomalies and the Ebon Dragon lets you steal traits when you’re not taking someone’s identity wholesale

>>96310673
…oh, fuck you, I didn’t get that at all but now you’ve pointed it out I can’t unsee it. Fuck. Fuck shit fuck goddamn.

>>96311089
Lioness is so consistently an unironic gatekeeper for what she thinks the hobby’s community should be that I support any accusation against her on general principle.

>>96315133
Strange how they don't see Lunar as the moon exalted

>>96315256
If you actually had a creative team that stuck with Exalted over multiple editions and didn't drastically recreate things you might get something like you're talking about where the system is slowly refined. John and Holden worked on late 2e stuff so they were aware of the pitfalls of 2e when they made 3e but they drastically changed the mechanics of the system so that they made new and exciting pitfalls that would then need to be course corrected. Maybe if the current devs stuck around and were in charge for a 4e it might turn out better but if they drop off and new guys come in we're back at square one banking on the slim, slim chance they're incredibly competent designers.

Some of those pitfalls aren't just a matter of refinement though, things like Craft need to be thrown out wholesale which leads to then Craft being a problem in a theoretical 4e.

>>96315306
Shapeshifting, faces of the moon, madness, the tides, all are pretty moon related. Are there any Lunar sailing charms that are worth talking about?

>>96315315
They even repeated some pitfalls like the piecemeal charms

>>96315315
Like >>96315346 said, what is really stunning to me is that even the people that did stick between multiple editions tend to repeat their mistakes. Case in point: The fact that after 2 entire goddamn editions of people roasting metaplots, Holden still put Infernals 2.0 who apparently make the Yozis just FUCKING WIN merely from existing in the 3e Infernals draft without batting an eye. I honestly consider this to be a more absurd blunder than the rapeghosts.

Holden wrote Cosmic Infernal Exalted with a straight face and thought it was a good idea for reasons even he can’t seem to explain.

>>96315364
Even with the same people they're gonna make some fuckups, just ideally they'd be less prone to fuckups than new people. But it really does depend on the design chops of the people in question. I still have no idea while Morke was put in charge of mechanics when he wasn't the mechanics guy from the Ink Monkeys, the one big thing he was known for designing was Cobra Style which was the only thing from Ink Monkeys that was just straight removed with errata.

Holden at least has a bit more mechanical chops. I haven't read much of Demake but from what I've heard it doesn't seem like it's a colossal fuck up of mechanics.

>>96315306

Because the Lunars don't really need that the way that Solars need the sun's fire and light for special effects. At best, it results in a lot of tangential links to a lot of other things that other Exalted do.

Metatextually, the moon connection is there to be a connection to W:tA and cement them as animal shapeshifters. Swarms, kaiju, blisteringly-fast werecheetahs from a certain Fred Perry comic, and all being equally at one with the material or the spirit. Territory is literally there because of Bastet Den-Realms; a neat variation would be some variations that involve Nagah Ananata and Gurahl Umbral Glades.

>>96315459
>Holden at least has a bit more mechanical chops. I haven't read much of Demake but from what I've heard it doesn't seem like it's a colossal fuck up of mechanics.
I’ve said this before, but Holden has always struck me as a decent ideas guy who desperately needs to be kept on a leash lest he start getting up his own ass and puts things in the game nobody but he wants “because they should be there” while simultaneously patting himself on the back for making the options he likes the strongest. The first draft of ExWoD was a promising improvement from 3e to me, barring a few hiccups like him porting oWoD Mage magic item rules without really thinking it through. He then proceeded to overcorrect a replacement system to it that made me gravely concerned. The more both Demake and ExCofD have developed, the more I wish Holden had a guy who can be trusted to shout down his most stupid-ass ideas. Demake Solars currently have a unique charmline that is literally the meme version of introducing a fact to the setting: Retroactively declaring something to be the case, in-universe. And imo what I’ve seen of ExCofD is a bit overdesigned; I don’t think Holden needs to nerf Exalted nearly as hard as he thinks to make them on par with nWoD splats. Hell, he’s admitted Mummy is basically a type of Exalt.

I still like his fluff better than 3e’s, if only because it’s short and punchy but still evocative instead of randomly tossing Orpheus and Uzumaki references after a cuisine paragraph, and is much more successful at capturing a sense of wonder. The initial ideas for ExWoD were genuinely promising, it’s how he developed them and his lack of regard for some of the underlying flaws once he got cocksure that concerned me.

>>96315671
I've been pretty uninterested in his take on the lore just because he's just scribbling in his own little world. If I'm going to ignore vast swathes of the 3e fluff which I do I'll just come up with my own stuff than take it from some dude who as you say gets really up his own ass about his lore. The little I've read of Demake does not endear me to his writing style on the project.

>>96315720
Understandable, that is indeed what he’s doing. All I can really say to that is I’m so alienated by 3e between shit like progenitive essence, the numinous exigency thingy, and the generally disappointing takes on the Deathlords that at this point I prefer Holden’s fanfiction even though neither is really representative of Exalted.

>>96315523
>Territory
They were from 2e

>>96315731
So I'm not sure whether it was Holden or Morke who mostly did it but I'd be very surprised if the progenitive essence wasn't their idea originally, since they got booted while they were working on DBs and the whole Exigency was introduced in the Core book. Deathlords were probably far enough down the way that whatever is in Abyssals is 99% on the current devs since they've had so long with it. I feel like one of the core issues with 3e is that John and Holden added a bunch of random shit and decided on a bunch of new directions for things that got locked in very early and then they got kicked off the project and the new devs just didn't like the stuff that was set up. Obviously the actual writing is on the current devs but in the cases of them working on elements that the original devs introduced it feels like polishing a turd. Exigents are a thing, they're in the setting, and they probably can't just ignore them completely so they try to spin an idea that they didn't have originally as well as they can so we get all these insincere justifications for it. The Core book mentioned like 10 new Exalt types for god's sake.

Most of the stupidest mechanical and fluff directions of 3e are John and Holden's fault so to see Holden come out with "HERE'S HOW I WOULD HAVE REALLY DONE IT" when he's able to completely ignore all the dumbass decisions that the 3e team is shackled to is just grating. Maybe that's being uncharitable, maybe Morke was the lead guy and Holden had to go along with stuff, but I don't think so.

>>96315794
Supposedly Morke had a lot of leverange because everyone thought he was literally about to die so they let him do whatever he pleased.
And Grabowsky didn't do any work for 3e he basically just got paid to let them slap his name on the credits.

>>96315794
>Deathlords were probably far enough down the way that whatever is in Abyssals is 99% on the current devs since they've had so long with it.
This much I believe, purely because what the Chivalry of Death actually turned out to be (the Abyssals’ commandments in 2e, but “it’s the Deathlords interpreting mumbled nonsense from the Neverborn”) was very different to what it was originally implied to be. All things considered I’m more inclined to blame Morke than Holden because like the other guy said, Morke DID have a fuckload of leverage as a dead man writing. Having said that, I also wouldn’t put it past Holden being spiteful enough to set up 3e to fail, and then keep all the ideas he was actually invested in for ExWoD once he was given the boot.

>>96315794

The Liminals and Getimians definitely feel like something the current devs might have stuck in the optional exalt types section of the Exigent book if Core hadn't forced their hand, at least. Exigents I think have rather more in the way of use cases and are easier to fit into the setting than two new full-splatbook types, one Celestial, and they're vague enough that they don't require an entire chapter of careful metaphysical argument for them not either being Sids 2, Developer's Pet Edition or Isekai Meme Exalt iin front of all the actual stuff.

>>96315840
They like Getimians.