Thread 96293265

Phone posting violence edition

Previous thread:
>>96286216

Legacies: https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/

>HH 3.0 - Complete gofile - All Books Scanned:
https://gofile.io/d/cnJk0N

>New Edition upon us to a great wailing and gnashing of teeth
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)
https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8
https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS
>30k TACTICA & TIPS
https://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/2.0_Tactics/General_Tactics

『Adeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialis』
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/
>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colours
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview
>More lists
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions
>What size magnets do I need?
5x1mm
>Tactics
https://1d6chan.miraheze.orug/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics

>Thread Question:
What was your first 30k kit you ever built?

>>96293265 (OP)
plastic betrayal at calth terminator praetor, iirc.
Good times.

>>96293265 (OP)
Xiphon pattern interceptor

>>96293265 (OP)
10 resin MKVI seekers

>>96293265 (OP)
For 30k? I think technically Brae-arth Ashmantle, though obviously that was a retcon putting him, in which case in actuality the betrayal at calth marines

>>96293265 (OP)
>What was your first 30k kit you ever built?
Either a box of Tartaros or mk4. Now my first 30k conversions were attempted a long time before that, when I was like 21 and 5e was the newest edition.

How many Line units are you taking?

A recast double fist alpha Legion dreadnought. one of the first models I ever built and painted and the one model I won't ever repaint :)
It's pretty shit by my current standards but I'm just too attached to him

>>96293326
Nice. My Seekers are s little rough. I might patch the paint but I painted them like old FW style which is historical lite so I'm also attached.

>>96293265 (OP)
>TQ
Like an actual 30k kit, kits I got specifically for 30k, or kit I assembled and then used for 30k? Because I have a bunch of stuff from abandoned projects I adopted into my 30k armies, so those would chronologically be the first "30k" kits, but kits.

If we go by actual 30k kits for 30k, probably the BaC Contemptor with some modifications. If any kit, maybe a Phobos LR.

>>96293323
At least 2 + a master of signals to make anyone into Line (1)

In 2.0 people said the Armistos should never fire or melee and just buff with cognis-signum.
What does he do in 3.0 now that he just has an augury scanner?

>>96293265 (OP)
The tartaros terminator kit, and the first terminator became praetor punchy

>>96293348
Now it just doesn't get used.

>>96293348
Not be taken, because despite all the bullshitting people did no one ever has or ever will care about a character whose distinguishing feature is "has a heavy weapon" and it's just a gay ass meme from dawn of war secondaries forced into real life

>>96293348
He shoots a heavy weapon wit BS5 and gives the unit ignore shrouded
That's about it

A few years ago, when my 30k group was still strong, we started talking about the primarches and who among us would resonate with them.
There were 3 agreed upon:
>my friend, Vulkan, a 6'2" white dude with a legit space marine build who benches 400lbs and, while in drunken merriment, casually picked up 2 members of the group with one arm each
>our Jew, Fulgrim, whose self confidence was matched only by his startling insecurity
>myself, who was named Corax during my good days, and Nighthaunter during my bad days
>I wonder if that is what they actually thought of me sometimes

>>96293239
That seems pretty good for a Vanguard (2) unit.
>>96293323
Right now I've got 4 Line and 3 Vanguard, thinking I'll trim one Line.

>>96293348
Never understood why people cared about the Armistos in 2.0. Why take a buff bot with a heavy weapon they will never use, when the MoS already exists and provided more utility besides the cognis signum.

>>96293434
Well some of use actually used the heavy weapon.

>>96293323
A squad of 20 tactical/1000 points.
Painting them at the moment.

>>96293265 (OP)
>>96292328

To the Anon in the previous thread - is that Dark Angels HH regalia on our mechanical friend? Great work btw.

>>96293265 (OP)
>tq
Deredeo dreadnought

>>96293265 (OP)

>>TQ
Honestly it was kind of a mess of stuff. I traded ten MkIV's with ten of his MkVI's from the new box. Also got a box of MkIII's as well. This was the old 10 man boxes as well. I made destroyers from a hodgepodge of the Mk3, and bits I'd sourced online. Guys with a mix of heresy bolt-pistols and previous model Khorne Berzerker pistol arms. A moritat with a CSM backpack, Mk3 body and a pair of Grav Pistols meant to be Volkite Serpenta's because there wasn't an official plastic model at the time and I didn't know those were a thing for Iron Hands. Two entire runners of skulls from the GW skull set my friend lent me since he had less use for them as he was going TSons I was goin NL's.
"There's no way I'll use all of these" I think to myself.
I used them all in really over the top ways.

>>96293265 (OP)
>tq
Mark iv marines from the betrayal at calth box.

>>96293265 (OP)
>tq
that incredibly shit dread from BaC

>>96293575
What the fuck is that? I love it so much.

What would be fluffy for a mid to late heresy loyalist tsons force?

>>96293625
The pose on that model was so comically bad, it kinda become good. It was a straight throwback to the 2e monopose marines from back in the day

>>96293630
The DA angry robot.

>>96293638
You are either part of the survivors of Prospero and under the command of Magnus, dispatched elements trying to get back to dad, serving the Imperium, or trying to figure out what happened.

Back in 7th my 40k TSons were fluffed as a expeditionary force that spend the heresy and scouring trying to get across the galaxy with no supply lines and everyone trying to kill them to ask Magnus what happened, arriving in time to get dusted, then immediately stealing anything that wasn't nailed down or on fire and fucking off to be pirates in the Maelstrom.

This is the starter 1500 point list I'm working towards:

crusade detachment:
centurion, plasma pistol, fist
librarian, biomancy, divination, axe
20 tacticals, plasma pistol, fist, vexilla, vox
16 tacticals, plasma pistol, fist, vexilla, vox
15 assault marines, twin claws

logistical benefit tactical support
apothecary
2 rapiers, both graviton

officer of the line heavy support
leviathan, grav flux bombard, storm cannon

officer of the line first strike
3 scimitar jetbikes, 3 multimeltas
javelin

I'm thinking of going with Sons of Horus because I found a neat stl of a SoH character with a fist and a plasma pistol that would make a nice character, hence why the centurion is armed that way.

>>96293630
A conversion for the DA excindio battle-automata. Which are enslaved abominable intelligence robots from the dark age of technology.
If they get hurt they start shooting the DA too, they're great fun.

I was getting really hyped at the idea of a 10 man jetbike command squad and then I realized they're all on 60mm bases

I'm guessing MMs are the clutch take for them in general?

>>96293265 (OP)
>TQ
The MTO box of 5 Cataphractii. Painted them up as Blood Ravens but I did the TSons method of contrast over gold, and then hit them with nuln oil gloss so they were super shiny.

>>96293356
That marble looks good anon

>>96293742
>60mm bases
What's the problem with that?

Also for some reason, getting on a jetbike is fine, but getting on an outrider bike makes every single character or unit dumber by -1 INT

>>96293752
Thanks, Anon, it's basically the only time it did

>>96293702
I think you've got base for a list, although i think the plasma pistols, power fist, and vexilla are a bit out of place on your tacticals. I'd recommned investing those points into giving your assault marines some special weapons, and look at either a combiweapon or charnable for your tactical sergeants depending on where you think they'd be sitting during a battle.

>>96293768
not like it matters for how much Int is actually used in the game...
I would have thought they would use it more for controlling objectives or doing stuff during missions
It's basically techmarines and the augur squad and everyone else might as well not have the stat

>>96293766
Getting the whole squad into combat so everyone can make attacks, presumably

>>96293789
For the mounted versions of the primus medicae (why would you ever take him) or forgelord (He actually has a reason to exist) it matters

I guess you can give your MoS a jetbike so he has an actual gun besides a pistol

>>96293818
Shouldn't be a problem. There's 10 of them at most, and jetbikes are fast enough to wrap around a bit if they have to. Never have had issues getting my 10 man terminator squads to all attack in combat.

>>96293843
Fair but terminators are on 40mm, jetbikes are on 60mm which is nearly an inch wider in diameter

In an all comers command squad, would you want to mix fists with thunder hammers to be a threat to both terminators and vehicles/dreads?

>>96293653
>>96293714
Wtf I love DA now?

*bathes thread in niggerfire*

Total Marinelet Death

>>96293874
Power fists are barely better than thunder hammers at damaging vehicles. Power fists are more suited to deal with dreadnoughts, automata, and similar high toughness multi wound models.
Chainfists are still better at doing something against vehicles. Even with -1 attack the str 10 and armourbane means you're at least pretty likely to actually punch though a tank's hull.
For PA command squads you're just shit out of luck. No chainfists, no meltabombs, forget doing anything against vehicles with an AV above 11.

Either way one or two chosen with a pair of lightning claws seems like a no brainer to deal with light infantry. Will really help them out if they get stuck in a tarpit unit.

>>96293781
Thanks for the feedback. I just gave them fists and plasma pistols because I thought they looked cool. What kind of combi weapons would be best? Flamers or meltas? When you say special weapons on the assault marines, do you mean pistols or power weapons or something else?

>>96293348
HH2 Armistos in a full HSS probably would be more effective just giving his cognis-signum bonus for the massive increase in the number of hits and therefore damage output; but as that number of models shrinks his own 97% hit rate from his master-crafted whatever becomes more important, and it's dangerous enough on its own to use to get a different heavy weapon into the unit to make it better against a range of targets

eg a lasArmistos in a volkiteHSS or vice versa

plus he had the augury scanner so handed out free Intercept to the HSS, and he prevented Infiltrators getting close - for 20-25 points to a BS5/WS5 Relentless 2+/5++ 60 point model that's a hell of an upgrade

HH3 Armistos (and his HSS) ignores Shrouded from the new augury scanner, is somewhat more durable than the old Armistos (notwithstanding higher D weapons than in HH2), has Implacable Advance afaict solely for the heavy flamer (in case you want an assault Armistos - might play well with your Legion Trait) and better Snap Shots (and better shooting generally if he stays still with most weapons - but this is an effect of the edition, not the unit) so will tend to hit as much if not more (it's wiggy because it's reliant on moron stats rather than changing the hit probability with rerolls)

and he gets access to most of the good melee weapons, which can often be exchanged for Legion options, so he's still reasonably killy if your HSS gets charged or you want to run Assault Armistos

>>96293954
I'm wondering what to do for a jetbike command squad. Same restrictions on chainfists and melta bombs, but you can chuck a few cheeky multimeltas possibly.

>>96293985
Multi-meltas on the bikes would indeed be your best bet in that case.

Also, why have I heard nobody about the fact characters and command squads on bikes can upgrade the bikes' weapons now? Them not being able to have anything other than the heavy bolter or twin bolter used to be one of the most common complaints I've heard during 1.0 and 2.0, yet now that it finally changed, crickets.

>>96293265 (OP)
>TQ
An old gf got me a betrayal at calth kit, still use some of those models even 10 years later

>>96293964
Rule of cool is defenitley a good way to go, so even if your not using it in a game don't feel like you can't play the "it's not turned on" card for a power fist or sword. As for combi weapons the new status' system has given some great utility to thing like flamers and grav, with the panic a pinning rule, while the classic combimelta is great if you think you'll need to pop open a vehicle, just be aware that if you firing at a vehicle the rest of your squad wont really be able to do anyting so it's generally more efficent for smaller squads in rhinos.
As for assault squad special weapons i was referring to to melee weapons since that's where you want to be most of the time, so think about what type squads you want them to be hunting and what weapon would be the most approiate, charnabal sabres can be worth conidering since they're half the cost with +1IM and breaching 6+ but you'll be going without ap3 so could hurt you. Pistols do look cool with the new volley fire rules while charging, but they can be a detriment if you kill to many people and make your charging even further.

>>96293899
Well, one of the DA gimmicks, at least lore-wise is that, as the 1st Legion, they have stores of old, forbidden weapons.
Excindio are one of them - ancient Abominable Intelligence (true AI, not the Mechanicum automata bullshit), with whirring claws, rad weapons, and a burning hatred for organic life that makes Eversor assassins seem more chill than The Dude. Excindio are fitted with kill switches in case they run amok.

In my headcannon, they are the M.A.R.K. 13 robots (iykyk).

Anyway, here's some tiny DA.

>>96294013
>Also, why have I heard nobody about the fact characters and command squads on bikes can upgrade the bikes' weapons now?
Everyone was pitching a fit over the legacies pdf while WS players were appreciating being low key OP

>>96294059
WS seem like a sleeper this edition. Another +2 movement means even despoilers in a rhino can potentially charge enemy units turn 1 if they're a bit too close to the forward edge of the deployment zone. A command squad on jetbike that got buffed by a stormseer covers 28" distance before the charge roll. Nowhere is safe, even turn one they can be in the back of your deployment zone charging your shit.

>>96294097
>>96294059
+2 movement is such an absurdly powerful buff, especially considering movement is more important than ever in 4 turn 3e. Like holy shit

Post models.
Post what you are working on.
>currently planning on painting 3rd land raider and building and painting a saturnine dreadnought

>>96294097
Yeah, it's a simple rule that has a ton of interactions.

Khan gives fast (2) to all infantry and cavalry on turn 1. That means +2 to either Rushes or charge rolls.

So an assault squad is moving 12+2", then gets a 5" set up move with 2d6+2" drop the lowest charge, for a threat range of around 23" in an edition where the closest gap between deployment zones is 24" at most.
It gets even wilder with bikes and jetbikes. Giving outriders Line (1) with a Master of Signals makes them just better tacticals and a ridiculous steal for 20 points each.

The cherry on top is that so many characters can be mounted in the legacies pdf, which really means that you now have a lot of BS5 heavy weapons flying around.

>>96294123
And people say 3.0 is a shooting edition kek

>>96294122
Give me your Warsmith, anon.
He's never in stock.

>>96293323
0

>>96294137
It is, even for Scars. Bikes/Jetbikes are fantastic at shooting for their price, especially when they're M18" on their own turn with Scars and can react with their full M16" if an enemy ends their movement within 12".
Scars are ridiculously well equipped to dodge melee if they don't want to be in it.

>>96294045
Thanks, again, for the follow up. The list, as presented, is also only 1485 points, so I have some wiggle room to throw random upgrades around and mix up wargear. I was thinking about upgrading the dread to have volkite instead of heavy flamers, but now I think I might go with 3 charnabal sabres on the assault squad.

>>96294122
Build five more tartaros for a command squad, now that they can be full squads of ten. And five chosen to finally expand my regular command squad to ten as well. Done in between fixing the paint on some other models after adjusting them to make them legal/viable in the new edition.

>>96293630
>>96293653
>>96293714

THIS - I’m the poster who asked the question, I wanted to know more, I know the HH Mecanicum list just recently. I read that one of the 30k battle automata CAN be added to your list under certain circumstances in 40k, and was going to precisely do something to this effect sans treads. I was using a Castallax however.

The image is fucking inspirational is what it is, and the more mentally ill the bot turns out the better.

>>96293714
Where are you finding these rules, fren? I’ve dragged through wahapedia but the adds kill everything.

Oh hey I found the original post.
https://x.com/HeresyJunkie/status/1624954836843212800

tl;dr rules to field this lad?

>>96294204
The rules are in the legacies rules PDF document you can download for free from GW's warhammer-community site.

>>96294211

Checked and thanked! I had no idea.

>>96294216
There's a number of fun and interesting units in there. And unlike with 40k all these units are 100% legal to play whenever and where ever you want.

Praetorian Command Squad or Centurion Command Squad for 4 dudes with shields and swords + dude with banner and sword?

>>96294204
>>96294216
>>96294211

Here’s the link to the Legacies Doc, and another pic of the abomination for good measure.

aaaaand it think’s I’m spam. Just search "Legacies of the Age of Darkness PDF"

>>96294225
Either works really. But could go centurion command squad to save points, a 3+ save is usually good enough against the targets you wanna fight with power swords.

>>96294225
what legion

>>96294275
IW. I don't own a Warsmith yet, so I want my Praetor to feel special.

>>96294280
Yeah that makes sense. Command squads are very good, paying for the 2+ save is generally always worth it.
Consider power mauls or axes, they're a little more IW themed than swords and are both better than power swords in game. Don't hesitate to give them fists or hammers either.

>>96294293
Ah, true.
I was asking because I'd built them back when the command squad box came out but never got around to fielding them.

>>96294302
The nice part is that you get 1 power fist per sergeant sprue so sourcing them for command squads is super easy

Swords don't have much of a niche, but 3 WS5 I4 attacks will kill 3+ save marines pretty well.

The combat shields are all good takes.

The fact that the Exindo can challenge is hilarious.

Do you think that GW will eventually bring back extra Solar Auxilia options such as the rotor cannons for the vanguard sections when they get around to making new models, or was them getting moved to the legacy pdf the final nail in their coffin?

>>96294337
Bring back in what sense? Theyre in the legacy pdf, theyre already here

>>96294320
Yeah, that's very true. I think I'll run them as they are right now and work towards upgrading the squad as I collect more stuff.

Is there any kits I should buy together when starting an army? Like how Ogres in Fantasy become infinitely easier to army build if you but multiple kits together to mix and match parts to kitbash.

>>96294345
In the "make the model" sense.

>>96294122
Making the jump from 40k to 30k with World Eaters. Greatly prefer their heresy scheme over their 40k models

>>96294204
>>96294238
Dark mech should be allowed to use excindio automata or something similar to it.

>>96294357
I suspect that will be far down the priority ladder at this point. Still a load of marine stuff they need to do proper, and then you have custodes and admech/darkmech getting theirs. Plus whatever new things they want to add down the line, whether characters or units. Plus theres also some fairly notable marine shit in the legacies that could use models (fulmentarus anyone?) When SA get their turn plastic charonites will also be first I suspect.

>>96294367
Some sort of generic "multi-purpose demon engine" could be cool. But really what is "something similar to the excindio"? Is a decimator similar? Theyre both !dreads with variable loadouts.

>>96294122
Another batch of 20 lads, plus champion and apothecary. Also a couple of contemptors I am working on.

>>96294374
I meant something like an shackled AI, not demon engines.
Kinda similar yet different.

>>96294357
That's not a very hard conversion, plastic auxilia and plastic rotorcannons exist

>>96294204
What's with the texture on that carapace even the recasted one I have isn't that rough
>>96294353
It's all just upgrade kits now so just the squads you want plus the weapons you want.
The melee upgrade kit is pretty good for accessories so probably at least that.

>>96294374
Yeah, that's probably how it will go. Shame.
>>96294385
Not the point.

Do you think 4 Phosphex rapiers, in pairs, is too much?

Are WB Procurators actually decent now? Flesh Harvest points seem potentially good, even if the weapon selection is limited.

am I crazy or is a single lightning claw always better than a power axe against every possible target

Rending (6+) into Breaching (6+) is just better than S+1 Breaching (5+)

>>96294122
Finally grinding through the old Mk3 tactical squads.

>>96294451
I remember hating mk3 but those helm,ets look rad

>>96294451
>Old Mk III

SOVL

Just finished watching kill lupercal and wow the animation is fucking ass.
I actually laughed when I saw the billion shadowswords driving around at Mach 6.

The story was pretty mediocre, the climax of the story is perhaps the single biggest woman moment I've ever seen in Warhammer media.

>>96294460
Worse than Erda?

>>96294471
>*appears*
>*slaughters the cringe OCs by the dozen*
>*refuses to elaborate*
>*lies to Lorgrar*
>*flees into The Eye*
Thank you Erebus

>>96294499
Best character in the entire HH novels series.

>>96294471
Idk, getting a whole Maniple to abandon their mission ( kill 9 legio mortis titans) to go kill Horus lupercal based on 0 (zero) evidence, constantly shooting down the misgivings of every other princeps, and finally blowing up your reactor once you realized you've failed is pretty insane.

I don't even know what their plan was, did they think that the Warmaster would be on terra without a dozen armies worth of men and equipment protecting him? What would 4 or 5 warlord titans do against all that? At one point they face a single shadowswords and treat it like this giant scary threat (and the princeps leading them on this retarded adventure goes all schizo and fires at targets that aren't there - idk why the hell they decided to still follow her after that) but then later they face what must of been 100 shadowswords at once and they seemingly just shrug off the blasts.

There are just so many baffling decisions

>>96294460
I paid $0 to download and watch it (anyone who owns a w+ sub is retarded) and I was still disappointed and skipped 90% of it. A super short shitty piece of trash of mostly face shots of an ugly woman and then tiny clips of the worst animated 40k combat in 20 years.

The animatics from like dawn of war 1-3 were more interesting to watch than that shit.

>>96294471
Impossible. If Erda hadn't took the kids only to abandon them on the streets, the whole HH wouldn't have happened in the first place. Or much, much later down the line.

>>96294406
>carapace

I’m not sure, unless it’s a print.

>>96294471
nothing is worse than erda

>>96294406
>What's with the texture
Probably the undercoat. Most likely due to a poor quality spray can, not shaking it for long enough, spraying from too close, too thick a layer, and/or poor conditions during spray painting.

Would an Autocannon HSS and a Missile Launcher HSS backed up by two Vindicators be enough anti-tank or do I need to get lascannons in the army?

>acruitor magisterium model has paragon blade and archeotech pistol
>actually you cant take either on this unit anymore lol
I guess faction wide wargear lists were too hard for the specialist games team to handle.

>>96294587
Autocannons don't do shit to tanks.

>>96293604
>>96294204
I always figured, as an homage to The Matrix for the evil AI stuff, and the description in the rules, they were like a robot land octopus. A central AI body with a score of tentacles for walking, interacting, and weapon attachments.

>>96294587
Autocannons and missile launchers certainly got light and medium vehicles covered, but 2 vindicators might not be enough to deal with AV 14

>>96294587
in a full sized game that army would do literally nothing to AV14 and forgettable damage to AV13. It'd be barely reliable at even killing AV12 rhinos quickly.

Bro im trying really hard but im just really not liking 3.0.

The terrain rules and the LOS rules are fucking resulting in some of the most bullshit situations were like you can be completely fucked, or you can end up doing some of the most gamy shit ever because they cant see into ruins.

The game i feel like has resulted down into literally just rush, sit on objectives, and then just body block. Like if you can sit on objectives for 2 turns you basically win the game.

List building is more annoying then ever because of removal of dedicated transports.

Cata terminators are basically miserable to get into combat anymore with out a LR to shuttle them into a fight and once oyu are outta that fight, i for example have never been able to get back into another.

Im struggling really hard to enjoy this guys, but i just aint feeling it.

>>96294587
Some of the most common vehicles to encounter in generic real world play are Spartans and Kratos because the Spartan was in the AoD box set and the Kratos was the new hotness at that time. That means that Anti-tank means killing AV14. Autocannons are fine for deleting rhinos but a giant tank sitting in the middle of the board causing problems isn't going to give a shit about them and is likely to have killed your vindicator before they even get in range.

>>96294673
Cataphractii has never been able to get into close combat without a transport. In 1.0 were too slow and got evaporate by all the AP 2 pie plates. In 2.0 they were too slow and got lit up by lascannons, turned into molten slag by melta predators, and maybe if they were lucky the last two or three got finished off before they could swing by a dreadnought fisting them to death. The only way for foot slogging cataphractii to get into close combat has always been the opponent being a complete troglodyte and throwing units at them like a retard.

>>96294706
>Cataphractii has never been able to get into close combat without a transport.
There is a difference between making it up the board and having your charge range be gutted from a max of 12 inches to a max of 7Its REALLY easy to just avoid them. Every game i have played they get into combat with like 1 thing, manage to kill it good, then everything scatters from it and you cant reach them.

I agree foot slogging them up the board was retarded and that's not what im annoying about, its the fact their charge is dog shit now. It makes them horribly frustrating to use and its only one of the issue im having with 3.0 that i just cant find fun with it either.
Biggest issues are LoW and terrain rules and the half assed missions, list building, Its all just....hallow. 3.0 just feels fucking hallow and its not fun. Im trying really hard here to have fun with it just everything seems like a fucking chore in the game.

I kinda fucked up.

>>96294743
How many Saturnine terminators did you stuff down your penis hole?

>>96294757
I did not do that.

>>96294757
All seven of them. I thought it would be funny, you know? To then have them come out as a if they deep strike. But they got stuck, and I can't get them out.

>>96294757
They're really big. I don't think you could do that without hurting yourself a lot even if you did that kind of stuff on the regular.

>>96294706
>>96294740
To elaborate, the fact cataphractii cannot setup move prior to charging, while the enemy unit can do whatever the reposition reaction is called, makes charging with these guys HUGELY harder than 1.0.

In 1e, if you get into a reasonable charge range, then you can actually get into combat. Now, the enemy can react away from you (and chances are, avoiding combat with a unit of terminators is always going to be worth the reaction), meaning in the most optimal situation, you STILL need a 5+ on 1 of 2 D6 to actually charge successfully, at that's if you managed to move 1.1 inch away from your target in the movement phase. Anything less than that optimal scenario, you either need a 6, or it becomes entirely impossible to charge at all.

Honestly I don't get why GW keeps making melee worse and shooting better.

>>96294791
Whats even worse is that AL for example its legit impossible to charge them if they react away. Because at most you can be 1" away from them, and they move 4" away on a react, putting them at 5", and iirc they subtract 2" from everything so even in this prefect setup, cataphractii can only make it in on a 6

And its just constantly little shit like this thats killing this edition for me. The terrain rules are even more abysmal, as now, basically scatter terrain is worthless on a board, because everything needs to be considered an area, and god fucking forbid you are 3" in, and now nothing can see you.

Or if the enemy can see a single part of 1 model on a massive unit they can now wound every single model in the unit or you can do really fucked up tfg stuff and technically be able to precision shot a character thats not even in LoS but a single model form his unit is.

>>96294680
a spartan doesn't even kill a vindicator on average rolls with the array or the destroyers, especially not with smokescreen

>>96294791
>>96294827
cataphractii (and heavy in general) are really shit at going up to enemy units in 3.0
You should really expect tartaros to be the main doorkicker terminators, or take WS5 jump pack/bike units so that your setup move is substantial

Someone reacting off an objective fucks over vanguard units, but lets line units score. Remember, you CANNOT score or contest objectives if you're locked in combat, so an enemy unit vacating an objective that your tacticals/despoilers/breachers can now stand on to score at the end of your turn is generally a win for you.

>>96294122
Finished off my command squad

>>96294895
I love that bit on the top of your banner. I modified it into a Death Guard icon.

>>96294892
> so an enemy unit vacating an objective that your tacticals/despoilers/breachers can now stand on to score at the end of your turn is generally a win for you
If they are reacting off an objective to deny vanguard, then the vanguard unit would be the one in combat, not the scoring unit you may or may not have lined up.

So there is really zero reason to actually hold your ground against vanguard ever - unless your line unit can kick their shit in, it simply never benefits you to stay put.

Does anyone know if Krole is using American Sign Language in this trailer?

Primary
>Praetor
>Delegatus
>Warmonger
>Champion
Officer Cadre 1
>Praetor (Special assignment 1)
>Armistos
Officer Cadre 2
>Moritat Mortalis
>Master of Descent
Now that's what I call herohammer

>>96294973
Anon means that another unit with Line following the unit with Vanguard can claim the abandoned objective without any opposition.
The unit with Vanguard can still attempt the charge, and even if they don't get those vanguard points they'll still either kill or chase off a valuable Line unit.

>>96294992
Yeah I understand what he said, but he's saying the enemy running off an objective with a reaction is a win - but its not.

If you have a vanguard unit and a line unit positioned to hit an objective, if the enemy line unit stays still, you charge them and (probably) wipe/rout them and score vanguard points, while your line unit also scores line/objective points (even if their line unit survives, they can't contest the objective).

If their line unit reacts away, then you can ONLY score your line/objective points.

Either way, your line unit might get charged and killed, but one way you are offering up vanguard vp to the enemy, and the other way you're not. So there is really no reason to NOT react away in this scenario, or any other scenario where your enemy is going to score vanguard points on you. THere is literally no downside to reacting away, unless you have something absolutely critical you need to save the reaction point for (which is rare, considering vanguard is just straight vp's).

AL bros, what would be a good anti tank unit for RoT? Golden keshig are much less scary to tanks now and tyrants, havocs and sunkillers all seem pretty disappointing.

TBQH the scoring abilities on units are gamey, retarded garbage.

Should I try to use some Sabres or are Predators better at their role?

>>96294827
Yeah, I would really prefer to stay with the latest edition, but theres just a lot of shit that doesn't seem great about it. A lot of this stuff I could get used to/house rule, but the other lurking issue is that GW WILL release 4e in 3 years or so.

My tolerance for poor rules is not great when I have to deal with some new set of shitty rules in just a few years.

Can't decide between tlc or power axe + combi bolter for anti meq cata. If I go tlc I'll probably have a biomancy librarian ride with them.

>>96295056
TLCs are arguably the best non fist/hammer power weapon, full stop. +2A is awesome, rending (6+) combos with breaching (6+) super well.

However, 40 combi bolter shots are nothing to sneeze at, especially when they follow it up with another 40 snap shots in volley fire

That being said, if you’re going anti-MEQ then go with tartaros.

>>96293265 (OP)
>TQ
Sisters and Banana Boys
Friend bought the Prospero box wayback when, and I bought the sprues off him for $15 each. Been buying more every time I find them going cheap on ebay.
Now I'm sitting on 50 of the girls with a few gun swaps here and there, with another 30 I was saving for more extensive conversions, including jetbikes, when GW decided to just kill everything work a worthless promise that they might get something in the distant future.

Killed any enthusiasm I had.

>the only Legions that benefit from Praetor+Delegatus Apexmaxxing are Iron Hands, Iron Warriors, Night Lords, and Word Bearers
I don't get it

>>96295145
AL also get an extra rewards of treason (two officer cadres) for a total of three possible RoT

>>96295041
Predators are probably better now that having sponsons isn't totally pointless

>>96295076
I do plan on getting a bunch of tartaros eventually, but I have a cata praetor, herald, bits for a librarian, and a bunch of unbuilt ones sitting at my desk currently.

>>96293575
>the little robot that killed

>>96295145
Having another super sergeant in a retinue is worthwhile. Or just using it to go ham with 3 prime champions.

>>96295161
I’d say go fists or hammers, the only advantage cataphractii has over anything else is against AP2 weaponry, and you’ll want to be able to kill the assholes who carry them

It probably sounds like a retarded constraint but hypothetically - if one is stuck with largely only plastic models and nobody else is about with a resin printer, what legion would be a better choice? Mostly since:

>I'm more or less just trying to figure out how to use the contents of both AoD and Saturnine boxes together, 80 dudes and two distinct groups of terminators
>Don't know of any recasters to fill the gaps, UK is too far away to trust FW with not fucking up
>If I get a printer I'd probably have the urge to autistically segregate a plastic legion from a proonted one

>>96295275
I agree on command squads, but it seems kinda bad on ws4 2a guys. Sallies as well so if I want hammers I probably just run firedrakes.

>>96295290
It isn't as cheap as having somebody print for you, but there's always the option of 3rd party / etsy prints.

>>96295297
I'll have to take a better look around then. Don't suppose a hybrid approach with printed vehicles would be less jarring?

>>96294122
Fellow Iron Warrior. For the first time in weeks, I've got nothing on the table, if anything I'm struggling to make things fit in my 3.0 list.

Thinking about how I'm going to build my last 20 Mkii marines

>>96295150
Are quad lascannon ones enough or should I try to print some neutron turrets?

is there any way to get a vox into a mounted command squad?

>>96293742
MM are a trap, keep them cheap or give em volkite if you have points

>>96295038
based

>>96295307
Depends on your level of autism and how true to original of prints you find.

>build a 2k list to see what I need to build and paint next
>have some status units, some anti teq, meq, and 3 squads of tacticals
>realize all I have for anti tank is a 2 laser destroyers
Hmm, this is rather annoying.

>>96295364
I did keep an eye on at least one Telegram group and multiple creators with some really solid designs, and some good imitations are definitely out there, but some of those guys got seemingly hit by GW spooks. Without a window in the shed I'm a bit uncertain if a grow tent + movable ventilation pipe out the door is good enough.

>>96294460
I thought it was okay. I think I preferred it to Broken Lance or The Interrogator but it's one of the weaker ones.

>>96293265 (OP)
I fucking love heresy bros I can’t deny it anymore, the whole vibe of painting and modelling is just amazing compared to 40K, gritty and basic I love it, why the fuck didn’t I start sooner?

Any general tips for painting in the ‘heresy vibe’? I know pigments and oil washes are used a lot, weathering seems like king on the models too, sorry for the faggot like praising of this game but it’s such a breath of fresh air and actually feels like a war game compared to 40shit

I realise that heavy weapon can move and shoot, what is the point to play a cac army now?

>>96294122
Yesterday I airbrushed the base color for my NL Scorpius. Looking forward to try it.

>>96295494
Heavy weapons generally get some bonus when stationary

>>96295498
Okay but you can kite Cac unit who don't have a jetpack and Gun them down without difficulty. Lascan stay ap2 after moving, autocanon keep DMG 2, multi meta just do insane DMG anyway

>>96294122
Finished some additional tacticals yesterday.

Some characters are next one the menu

>>96295494
>>96295509
Heavy Weapons squads are dogshit now my dude, no one is going to pay 250-350 points for 10 3+ save dudes that are easier to debuff or kill than ever. Rapiers are the new hotness now

TSons breachers seem like very nice troops to have. If you chuck raptora, a couple lascutters and some melta bombs you have a line unit that is a somewhat legit threat to vehicles that can turtle up with 4+ shrouded. Go graviton guns + athanean and they have pinning, shock (pinned), panic, and can pull statuses off your units.

>>96293265 (OP)
Kind of new to list building and heresy, the Cataphractii have a ton of weapon options but only come with the heavy flames and combi boaters, where would I go about picking up the other options for them like the auto cannon or plasma blasters? Also do people normally run them as a 10 block spartan?

>>96295290
get WB or SoH and model them for late heresy. lots of plastic csm kits from 40k can be easliy adopted into heroes/elites with some proper kitbashing and cleanup

>>96295566
officially, the resin cataphractii special weapons set. but just get them printed from a good etsy store or a local printer. or recasts

Thinking of doing a bunch of chaos40k marines with these mark3 suits. They seem to be 3.3 dollars per marine on amazon+free shipping.

I come here asking what are your experiences using these models for 40k?

Given SOH's trait means we get effectively 2 rounds of shooting wouldn't that mean I could forego tank based anti tank and full send on melta squads

>>96295612
melta is no longer an assault weapon, co you cant volley fire with it.

>>96294417

Probably, the difference is that Lightning Claws are a bit more restricted than Power Weapons.

>>96295527
these look excellent anon. Convincing me to build my next MKVI as beakies instead of replacing the helmets next time

>>96295616

You can with Vet HWSS's since they get Implacable Advance.

>>96295612
Nope, doesn't work on Meltas. Think of it more like an anti-infantry boost

>>96295475
Even only using a simple trick like using a sponge to do mud splatter or chipped paint already goes a long way. Welcome to the superior game.

>>96295616
Pyroclasts get implacable advance so they can volley fire theirs. But theirs is damage 2 so you still will probably need to melta bomb the vehicle to finish it off anyways.

>>96295533
Rapiers are fragile as well now anon. All wounds caused by shooting must be allocated to the guns first, one shooting attack from light anti-tank and you're left with nothing but 6 basic bolter bitches that can't even score VP properly.

>>96295538

I'm going through legacies right now to see who else get's Lascutters now (it's just Breachers and Immortals in the Liber) and aside from the Vet Breachers which we talked about already...

>Have problem with Spartan?
>10 Vet Breachers with 4 Lascutters and Melta Bombs in Rhino
>Rhino speeds 12 inches towards target, Breachers move out 7 inches.
>Shoot Spartan with 4 str10 2damage attacks, will probably do 2 damage.
>Charge from point blank because disordered charge.
>4 str12 4d attacks hitting 2+, penning on 2+. Plus Str9 4d Meltabomb.
>And the Spartan is gone!
>...you now have to deal with Terminators that were inside. They are pissed. But you are WS5 with 5++ and 2W, so is fine.

Technically the normal breacher squad can have 4 as well by going 20 man. As can..The Ultramarine Nemesis Squad! For some reason!

>Same ratio as normal Breachers when it comes to special weapons.
>Can take 20 guys and also has phospex because they are TECHICALLY destroyers.
>No shields tho...
>Or vanguard or line
>Master of Signals says hello, I guess?

But let's loop round to Medusan Immortals, because thanks to Errata and Legends, Iron Hands might actually have some good stuff.

>The full 20 immortals can take 4 Lascutters.
>Also has Implacable Advance, Feel No Pain (5+) and Expendable (2)
>Shieldwall also makes them T5.

Fuck me that's not bad. Nothing tops the Vets 2W and WS5 so far, but FNP and Expendable is definitely good and a full 20 man squad of these fuckers would be rough to chew through, even for terminators since D2 does nothing here unlike with Vets, and a third of those wounds that make it past the 3+ and 5++ are then going to get cancelled because Instant Death doesn't exist to cancel out FNP any more. And even if your Justys DO kill them all... they're only going to get 2 points for it, and that's the best scenario. Those Lascutters could be straight up deleting 4 guys a turn!

A lot of these guys feel like they have different uses to be frank though.

>>96295650
A lot of things that are efficient into rapier batteries are also good into hss though. Yeah 5 autocannons will wreck a rapier squad but 5 autocannons will also wreck the same points cost of hss. Meanwhile a ten man tactical squad will kill ~3 hss but chip a wound off a rapier.
Lascannons aren't efficient into hss but also if your opponent is shooting lascannons into hss or rapiers, something has already gone awry.

Now that chainswords got nerfed to shit, how do you plan on running your assault/despoiler squads? getting them power weapons balloons the cost really quickly. Is it ever worth it to take non-vet squads?

>>96295667
Veteran breachers are cool but a lil pricy for my taste. Feel like I'd rather command squads or termies in most cases. Cause vet breachers don't have line so it's no longer a way to get anti tank and line. And they cost as much as praetorian command just to lascutters.

>>96295679
Assault and despoiler squads still shit on tactical marines and the like in close combat. Using them to clean up chaff in melee means you don't have to dedicate a 300+ points elite melee unit to it.
Taking power weapons that lets them deal with MEQ has always been worth it. So power mauls, power axes, or power spears, depending on what you value the most.

Thoughts on running picrel as a counts as for a regular land raider carrier?
the spartan is just so much more visually appealing than the proteus but it seems way overcosted if you aren't taking up all its transport slots.
also secondhand spartans are way cheaper kek

>>96295698
>Assault and despoiler squads still shit on tactical marines and the like in close combat.
Do they though? Chainswords have zero effect vs Tacs and between hitting on 4s, wounding on 4s, and thne the 3+ save..

Why Sanguinius deserved less?

>>96295722
Yes, because despoilers and assault marines have twice as many close combat attacks as tactical marines, and some of them can take power weapons to make them even more deadly.
This isn't about the chainswords, stop the tunnel vision focus on the one thing that isn't a factor.
Chainswords used to be nothing but a fancier basic combat weapon for waaay longer than they had shred, and still melee unit were fine.

>>96295720
No. Just no. Wrong model, substantially larger, wrong sponson weapons. Not to mention that spartans are so well known at this point that everybody knows what they are, how they look like and what they do. No one is going to accept spartans as a proxy for land raiders, it would cause confusion way too easy.

>look forward to a good day of hobbying in the living room
>start up a video on my phone to fill the silence, keeping bad thoughts at bay
>after about an hour, mom walks in and asks me what I'm listening to, which is mom-code for "turn it down or turn it off"
>completely crestfallen, retreat to my own room to rot in front of the computer for yet another day
Fun life I've chosen.

>>96295720
Its much longer and has way more guns, its also another actual unit thats in the game, so proxying it is really not appropriate at all.

>>96295748
You still live with your mom? Yeesh.

Also learn to use headphones or earbuds like a proper well adjusted member of society, you psychopath.

Does this work in literally the opposite way it should? You make a leadership check when you lose combat, and the dice result is DECREASED by the number of units lost...making you more likely to hold

>>96295758
It works just like with modifiers to AP: a negative modifier means it goes higher, a positive modifier means it goes lower. You did read the pages with all the details about basic principles and definitions at the start, right?

>>96295755
>not living with your mom
lmao fag

>>96295722
It depends on the scenario. A 10 man tactical squad will average 3.33 despoilers in a shooting phase, and half as many on volley fire. If the tactical squad gets a shooting phase vs them it's pretty close. If not, despoilers take it handily. But also, in a normal game scenario it doesn't really matter. Despoilers or tacticals both get pasted easily, and 2 line units aren't super likely to be sitting around smacking each other without outside help. For that reason, I'd lean towards tacticals, since they just get to shoot where despoilers can just get bodied before doing anything even if they hit melee.

>>96295779
I live alone, thank you very much. I can only tolerate other people for so long.

>>96295784
right, what I meant is, tacticals get 2-3 shots while sitting pretty on an objective. Despoilers get 2 attacks only if they make the charge

>>96295758
I think they use positive / negative in the good / bad sense, not a numerical sense this edition. Annoying, but it is what it is.

>>96295790
lmao gay AND incel

>>96295784
Assault marines seem more favourable in that regard.
>As fast as a Rhino, yet 20 points cheaper than despoilers + Rhino
>Anti grav so can jump into charge range from behind LOS blocking terrain
>5" set up move to deny volley fire and reactions

I wish my mom was still alive :(

>>96294983
You're asking if a character from a british IP uses american sign language?

>>96295799
No in, just cel.

>>96295802
Must be nice, to have had a parent that loved you.

>>96295807
Mutually agreed celibacy.

>>96295687

I feel like you do get good returns on the investment when you consider the prices of what you're ideally going to be using them to either kill or tarpit.
10 of them, 4 Lascutters (maybe no Meltabomb) and an Augury Scanner to negate smokescreen plus Rhino is 325pts.

A Spartan ALONE is 400pts. And the potential 12 Cataphracts inside are another 360 minimum. Hell, all of the Lord of War tanks will get mulched by this build and they're all 400pts as well. Nobody ever considers a tiny Rhino that much of a threat, do they?
they will after this. Except maybe the Glaive, and even then there is a very very reasonable chance they might, and that thing is 650.

I see this build as basically a very specialised tool, and that tool is to delete big tanks.

>>96295720
Consider Phobos pattern (40k land raider)

I would do the same but i already got my proteus from Battlegroup box

>>96294983
GW literally said it was British Sign Language both when Tithe ep2 and the Saturnine trailer dropped. Just altered slightly to accommodate the lack of any facial signs.

I played a game where my opponent took 2 units of 20 tacticals and didn't manage to get either unit on an objective the whole game despite having an objective in his deployment zone.

Just wanted to let you guys know.

>>96294460
>lupercal
A volcano cannon is a fucking beam. I can't watch this Abnettesque drivel.

>>96295852
It's not supposed to be a beam? doesn't it just fire a super melta beam? So it'd look like.. an orange laser

>>96295845
>only 40 marines

Weak!

>>96295845
elaborate

>>96295845
>Retard loses by being retarded
Tragic

>>96293265 (OP)
When it comes to converting and finding heads, weapons and other bits what’s your go to? I’m really wanting to make my iron warriors my own

>>96295871
Classic Night Lords

>>96295864
Man decided not to place any models on his backfield objective, tried to hide one unit behind cover for most of the game, the other was so far away from everything that it was basically irrelevant.

>>96295942
If your opponent refuses to play that's 100% user error, I don't think it says anything about the game

>>96294122
Second Chosen built, only one to go. No clue about the pose though.

>>96295841

Cool. Sorry for being a luddite, I thought American Sign Language was the global default.

>>96295947
I was merely commenting on my recent gaming experience.

>>96295992
You bought 2 praetors?

>>96296009
Three, actually. Saw a seller on ebay who had them for €20 and just nabbed all three.

>>96295992
Not going to wait to see the unit profile and wargear?

With Squats being retconned into 40K as the "Leagues of Votann" and Squats already being a thing in Horus Heresy, could you see these minitures be used in an auxiliary militia force comprised of Squats, these bots and potential Mechanicum allies? I really like the look of their Volkite equivalent rifles.

>>96296065
Why would I? It's not like I'm going to play 3rd edition. And even if I did, pic related shows me that axes are an option and look great. What more do I need to know?

>>96296067
Take your shitty-ass bait and go polute the 40k general or something.

>>96296067
I guess? Personally I think the visual design of a lot of squat units is a bit too "40k" for hh but im sure theres a way to make them work. Assuming they keep kinfolk helots as an option theres even okay rules support.

>>96296067
I don't see why not, HH is perfect for proxies. Just make sure you remove that crest and the angular runes, otherwise you're golden.

>>96293348
The way to use an Armistos is to give it bs6 to try to crit with his heavy weapon. You can still shoot while using the augury scanner. So, give the guy a lascannon and put him in a las rapier squad or use legion specific heavy weapons like illiastus or warpfire in a heavy weapons squad. ezpz

>>96295720
Wonder if you could leave out the hull extension and just have the wider hull with the extended front ramp on a Proteus length tracks. The sponsons are not a problem, since Proteus and Spartan use the same sprues.

Does anyone own the Saturnine termies? I was wondering if mounting a pair of weapons on the shoulders would be based or cringe, but I haven't bought the kit yet.

>>96295720
never go for the midsized vehicle when you can get the real deal

>>96296088
How is it bait?

>>96296136
I used to think the version without shoulderpads looked good until I saw picrel

>>96294417
Yes, they are more expensive

>>96296146
Wow, that's… generic.

Is Legions Imperialis dead? Do we have any rumors about that?

>>96296154
Turns out when you take the big shoulder pads off the minis for your "minis with big shoulder pads" game they lose any ounce of sauce they may have had

What armor is this guy supposed to be wearing? The helmet is obviously MkVI but the rest of the armor looks halfway to Terminator plate. Whcih is extra weird since MkVI was the lightly armored sneaky one

>>96296179
It's clearly just fuckheug artifice mk6

>>96296184
but it's got the MkVIII gorget

>>96296179
HH2.0 space marines briefly operated on ork rules.

>>96296189
>MkVIII gorget
What about the MkIV pads with the slim trim or the MkIII vambraces? Other suits besides MkVIII have had the extended gorget. Just like other suits of armour have had MkVI style single-piece greaves. They're not exclusive to just one mark.

>>96296208
Well this guy looks sick as fuck. Why do you think his vox grill glows?

>>96296179
Artificer Armour. It could've been a personalized, advanced/experimental design that had elements incorporated into later Mks of armour.

>>96296215
He's spitting fire.

>>96296222
>Word Bearers chapter that preaches by rapping

Some people say "Ferrus Manus" is a dumb name, but somehow "Corvus Corax" doesn't get any shit

>>96296217
I want to design and print custom armor to show artificer armor, wish it'd come back, looks like a great way to try fun unique things with space marine designs

What is the range of weapons you would accept as a headsmans axe?

>>96296252
>wish it'd come back
it's not gone? It's just that random sergeants can't take ancient relics now

>>96296264
I didn't mean the wargear option, I meant the unique designs, bad wording :(

>>96296263
Anything that looks cool/fitting
I imagine they look like picrel: heavy nostroman chainaxes

>>96296271
every single character with weird armor is wearing artificer

>>96296279
Is that armor weird? Its just up-armored mkIII

>>96296279
I know man, I know
t. Autismus

What I said and meant is that I'd love to see more unique designs, I think it's a great opportunity to try new things, one of a kinds, experiments.

>>96296252
>wish it'd come back
I don't and wish it never does
Artificer armor tanking was actively ruining the game and it being harder to do is one of the best parts about the new edition

>>96296277
Its amusing that after being absolute dogshit last ed, this praetor loadout is one of the best NL ones

>>96296291
Good to hear I just get the cool models and give them wysiwyg loadouts, then make an army around them, I give 0 shit about meta

>>96296179
not sure why they kept the dogshit dinner plate design language. was there ever a 'lore' reason for them?

>>96296310
Isn't it based on Roman insignias? HH is heavy on the Roman theme for the legions. Besides, arne't they optional in most models?

>>96296277
>Anything that looks cool/fitting
Yea, I think any sufficiently brutal axe should work. But im wondering if for example an executioners SWORD would fit, what about a mace? Whats the range of "fitting"

>>96296310
They're roman centurion medals, just badly executed

>>96296315
It's explicitly called an Axe, so I'd say anything else wouldn't fit and could easily be confused with something else. This isn't a Paragon Blade situation where it says "do whatever", this is clearly called out as an axe. Besides, nostroman chainswords already exist on the Contekar

>>96296325
There we go then "has to be an axe"

>>96296329
It goes without saying, but it should also be the biggest/most threatening axe in your army. If you give your squad impressive power axes and then the sarge has a dinky hatchet, nobody's going to go "oh that's obviously the executioner axe".


Why do Nostromans have executioners anyways? There was no law enforcement. Who the fuck is carrying out executions?

>>96296337
>Who the fuck is carrying out executions?
Cartel enforcers

>>96296340
fair enough

>>96296314
>>96296321
They always struck me as a chadly Ultramarines gimmick.

>>96296352
Forgot my picture.

>>96296352
Ultrmarines are the most roman of the roman-patterned legions after all. Despite what the lore would have you believe, UM are the blueprint from which GW starts to design other legions, not DA

Wait a minute. There's nothing stopping you from using am armorbane in normal melee? WTF?

>>96296378
>using an armorbane
Using a LASCUTTER, sorry

>>96296378
Yea? if your armorbane weapons are melee weapons you can use them in melee

>>96296360
one belt buckle is fine.
Someone could wear a patriotic belt buckle.
An entire string of nipple tassels looks unforgivably retarded.
It's as tacky as having two american flags flying from your nipples.

>>96296386
Lascutters have had a melee profile in 2e too?

Man, there really is just zero reason to use praetorian breachers between suzerains and veteran breachers then huh

>>96296393
They had cumbersome and were therefore dogshit and swinging at anything that wasn't an immobilized vehicle

>>96296396
Same as 2.0. They are just a shittier, cheaper version

>>96296396
now look at SoH reavers. Lots of the specialist units are "more expensive vets with an extremely niche upside"

>>96296378
The thing stopping you is that the units that have them are pretty much dogshit in melee period, so if your in a situation where you can use it in melee, your probably turbo fucked already.

>>96296252

Corvus Corax get's less shit because his name isn't Iron Hands, Primarch of the Iron Hands who happens to have hands made out of metal. And also because paying attention to Emo Goth twinks is what they secretly want.

>>96296388
Yeah there's no excuse for them to be just blank circles, it makes the models look very "low resolution" for lack of a better word.

>>96296396
They're like 100 points cheaper than vet breachers with PWs and can actually score on an objective
They're still bad, but not that bad

>>96296404
Theyre IM(-3) and AM(1), theyre not very practical now either.

>>96295145
DA can officermax to paladinmax or stormwingmax.

>>96296067
Have had a friend that since 1.0 has had his old ass metal squats be in his armies, either as a small Iron Hands allied force, or the consol that lets them bring automatons and then running their old school terminators as the robots.

It’s pretty easy to just proxy them in if you can make some cool lore justification for them.

>>96296396
Theyre significantly cheaper and in a different, less contested, slot. Elite units are almost always more PPM effective than other models, but theyre more absolutely expensive and in a slot which outside of your apex isnt trivial to take (and filled with other very strong units)

>>96296454
You get one DA Paladin per army

>>96296451

They have one very specialised job, and that is to fucking sodomise 400+ AV14 vehicles in cc with S12 D4 attacks. They're also not THAT bad against terminators, since you can have the other troopers in the squad soak their attacks and then slap back with them. Vet Breachers being WS5 makes them kind of great against targets who usually don't really worry about anything that isn't in Terminator armour or a melee specialised unit.

>>96296475
Vet breachers are 3A, give them a thunder hammer if you want to kill terminators.

>>96296454
DA would escape being the worst faction in the entire game if they could paladinmax, but they only get 1 single paladin upgrade to a single unit, while everyone else gets things like +10-20 attacks to every unit, so DA suck donkey nut.

>>96296482

Valid! They're a good unit that can do multiple things! All I'm saying is, that 10 of them clown carring into a Rhino with 4 Lascutters (and whatever else) can just vomit out enough firepower onto a vehicle, with around a near half the board radius, to delete a Glaive with reasonble rolls. And this unit probably wont cost more than 400pts, including the rhino, hell, it might easily be sub 350.

>>96296485
But the Terranic greatsword master sargeants bro, cmon man think of all the challenges, what about those sweet aux detachments, you guys are rolling in prime slots bro

>>96295730
>bitch and cry constantly
>have your sons be written as unstable cannibals before you are found
>be written to be immune to corruption because your insecure about the wings people practically worship you for having
>also he written to all but give yourself to corruption anyway, with one of your marines saving you from yourself because fuck continuity
>be written as both completely ass mad raging willing to butcher planets, but also so sad you have to kill people you make your destroyers wear your face
> be written as being completely gutted by Angron, but magically heal the multi foot wide hole that was your torso before you fight Horus because the author didn’t look at the models when he wrote the fight
> the actual relationship between you and Horus has been so watered down that Horus no longer is desperately trying to save you because he still loves you as a brother, he puts you down like a dog
> worst of all, your purpose for dying turns out to be Abbnet using your corpse to make his perpetual cancer OC become the most important character in the setting

I don’t know why people like Sanguinius, especially if you’ve never read anything else but the HH series. He’s written so autistic.

>>96296485
>while everyone else gets things like +10-20 attacks to every unit
>everyone else

>>96296310
Thankfully they are optional on that kit

Speaking of the mk2 centurion, something weird I noticed:
The hips feature ball like protusions, which I believe are in-universe part of the servos on the legs.
These don't appear on the tactical mk2s, yet appears on the mk2 IF tank commander, which leads me to believe it was part of the numk2 design before being changed for the final release.

Picrel is the IF character, see the ball on the hips...

>>96296485
Most legion tactica are weak as hell. DA players are just little bitches

>>96296527
Picrel is the mk2 centurion leg bits
As you can see there are the same ball like feature

>>96296521
>BL fucks up beloved character
News at 11.

>>96296521
>>be written as both completely ass mad raging willing to butcher planets, but also so sad you have to kill people you make your destroyers wear your face
I have this same reservation about Vulkan. I don't care if he volunteers at a kids hospital in his free time, he's responsible for the death of billions of people and the erasure of entire cultures. I'm sure he's approved the deletion of at least one planet's biosphere in his time. He's disqualified from being a good guy just as the rest of them are.

>>96296603
>>>/reddit/

>>96296603
Wasn't there a story with Curze and Vulkan, where Batboy is doing his usual rapemurder thing and Vulkan gives him shit, but Curze goes "less people end up dying this way". And later on, the planet has to be purged anyways and Vulkan is put in charge of doing it. Lmao

>>96296529

Don't forget how they gave Space Wolves an ability that's literally a worse and more situational version of the White Scars ability! Meanwhile TSons get six new psionic disciplines to just give to any unit they like. Or how World Eaters and Emperors Children now get two choices of Legion tactica to choose from!
Some of which are actually good!

>>96293356
>im gunna get my big brother to beat you up on the playground vibes

>>96293356
>TS Saturnine

>>96296529
there's only two legion tactics which are as weak as prime advantages. Word bearers and Dark Angels. Every single other one is far better, you really should kys

>>96294122
Before I apply the candy red

>>96296627
+2" to an entire army's charge range is huge. Especially since the whole setup move is immune to difficult terrain and if you tag them during setup they can't fire their guns. White Scars trait is just S-tier since it works for shooting units and dancing around objectives when Wolves one is middle of the pack.

>>96296694
wait, he's not EC?

Man seriously how the fuck do people actually have trouble with detachments I cam never fit in more than two at 3000 points

Starting to get a touch frustrated with the Mech army building rules. I take a Lacrymaerta archmagos, he can't go with the Ursarax he takes as his Apex detachment because he has no jump pack. He can't get in my Macrocarid because it's keyword-locked Macrotek, and he can't join Myrmidons to give them buffs without reducing his Leadership for no apparent reason, so the only three options for this huge stompy archmagos are repair servitors, overpriced Thralls (10ppm for Sv6+? really?) or Scyllax who can't go anywhere.

The units themselves are good, I have no complaints about anything but the Thralls and maybe the Domitar, but a) where are my jet packs and b) this six-faction-keyword-army idea is stupid as hell and they should really have a common Mechanicum keyword on top of the Arcana.

Is Vanguard as important as everyone was initially making out? Haven't really got any in my army and putting some in would take a lot out, with termies requiring transports

>>96296739
Just put him in the myrmidons retard, the faction penalty is a non issue when your base LD9 and CL10, and that's before even getting to the fact automata make you status immune to everything but losing combat

>>96296728
Are you building giga death stars and maxing out every upgrade on your units? Remember oyu don't need to fill EVERY slot in your detachment. But let's do an example. If you want to run Terminators in a Land Raider, that's already two extra detachments you need (or some logistical benefits). If you want tanks that's another detachment. More than three troops units? Another detachment.

>>96296759

They can't get in the damn tank *either*, because they're locked Myrmidax. Darkfire Myrmidons or Castellax seems like the way to go for backline magi, at least, but I would like to actually put something in my 270pt heavy transport that isn't Scyllax or repair boys who can't fix it while embarked.

>>96296739
I reckon GW is doing this to nerf 2.0's unwanted interactions. Like how you would attach a Lacryemarta archmagos to a Myrmidon unit instead of a Myrmidax one. You still can, but it's going to get an Ld penalty.
But mechanicum transports should be allowed to fit any mechanicum unit, true.

Is there a list of which unit is what arcana's? I know some are flex, like Scyllax

>>96296694
And after the candy red and gold
>>96296706
Never was

>>96296684
Iron Warriors are also mega bad as a whole. Their trait does make them brave, can't deny it, but their prime is being worthless, their gimmick needs them to die, their special ammo sucks, their special units are obsolete (Dominators), overcosted (Iron Havocs) or both (Tyrants).
Besides their trait, there's not a single good thing that can be said about the legion's rules

>>96296876
Yeah, but the Iron is Within anon, so who cares

>>96295046
>My tolerance for poor rules is not great when I have to deal with some new set of shitty rules in just a few years.
This is a big thing for me too. I can put up with some shitty rules because with a long enough time gap between rule sets people will eventually come to realize its a shitty rule and just house rule it. But with 3 year cycle, its just gonna be accepted as "normal" then 4.0 picked up.
There are so many bad interactions with rules and this rule book is a fucking headache to navigate at times and its so fucking wordy.

Whats killing it for me is terrain and LoS.
Im trying, im really fucking trying but im reaching the point of im just gonna start asking people if they wanna play a 2.0 game using 3.0 vehicle wounding rules and then change the glance table to
1,2 crew shaken
3,4, crew stunned
5,6 weapon damaged :Snap fires only for the next turn.
Then use the armor bane rule for 3.0

>>96295722
It’s the 2-4 power weapons and the usually prime buffed sergeant with power weapons that does all the heavy lifting. Plus big despoiler squads can get chain axes, let you kill a few guys, then just have the better quality attacks into you.

>>96296961
so what are we thinking, power mauls for 3-4 guys and the sarge? Or axes? If you're already going after tacs then might as well take the mauls right? Unless you're EC I guess

>>96296916
this is the big problem. In GW's churning toilet cycle, people are gonna say "sorry I dont wanna use house rules I'm just starting HH3 I wanna learn how the rules are supposed to work and try it for several games before I change anything"
In the 3 year editions, that'll be the 0-10 total games the normal customer plays before the next edition. They never leave the 'getting started' phase and then 4th edition comes with shitty rules, they'll have to startt again with the 'getting started with the shitty rules' phase again.
The constant journal releases and 207 page Legacies also means having a load of different huge documents and profiles which overwhelms the beginner, so they don't want the mental load of adding house-rules and fixes on top of that.

With a 10 year edition, they could take a year or two then communities fix the problems in the long decade stretch. No chance in toilet-churn mode. It's a casual unpopular hobby, not a paid job, people are correct not to put a bunch of wasted mental effort into every short edition.

>>96296985
Yeah GW leaves no time for an edition to simmer and marinate before they put out the next one, and that's basically the way they want it, to constantly churn on new people.

Like i said im a few games deep now and im just not vibing with it and it sucks because a lot of people in my group are, and i realize i have 2 options here, accept a shitty game to play games, or wait like a year for everyone else to see the issues and MAYBE get 2.0 going.

I know we've got a hard on for vet breachers, but are regular breachers worth it in this ed? I've got them built and they've been sat on the shelf too long

>>96297017
They can now go in rhinos just fine, but they lost a point of line. Up to you

>>96297017
Yes, breachers are good this edition. Stick an apoth with them, not for the medic reaction but to help reduce status checks. Stuff them in a rhino, rush them onto a middle point and hold.

>>96296916
>play a 2.0 game using 3.0 vehicle wounding
Bro don't. This is what some dislike of 3.0, as it works the opposite way of what they're used to: glances chip, penetrating hits break. Now glances break and penetrating hits chip? Booo.
>Use armourbane of 3.0
Just nerf Explodes so they don't kill the vehicle, really. Make them 1d3 damage or something

>>96297017
Breachers can never be worth it. It is verboten.

>>96297025
>Its the opposite.
Anon outta all the complaints i have heard about 3.0, vehicles rules have been one of the few things praised so, im not sure whats going on in your neck of the woods.

>>96296684
What if GW was smart and gave weak abilities to the legions getting their own journals first?

>>96297025
>Now glances break and penetrating hits chip? Booo.
Anon glances do no damage unless you fire MASS amounts of weapons that can chip and even then, you need to have to roll the same status effect.
Pen does the damage of the weapon, so a d3 weapons does 3 wounds so im not sure what you are saying here.

>>96297017
Regular breachers are better by virtue of actually being able to score points
Vanguard (x) is objectively a downside on every unit that has it

>>96297054
>Vanguard (x) is objectively a downside on every unit that has it
save for ranged units that have it, Ranged vanguard is great, melee vanguard is bad.
Its why vet breachers are way over cost for what they can do.

>>96297021
>>96297023
Can I drop pod them in?

>>96296748
I've never heard anyone say vanguard is important
It's almost a detriment most of the time unless you are mixing it up with line units

>>96297067
no, but oyu just run them up in a rhino on your turn, you can get a 19 inch move outta them since you can move the rino 12, then kick them out and they move 7.

>>96297070
Its only good on a ranged unit.

>>96297054
you're objectively a retard.
Vanguard is 0% downside on the units going for the two 1-point objectives every game. It's only risky on the central 3-point objective.
If the game was 7 turns long, it could be an issue that the side flankers aren't also great in the center, but with a 4 turn game that's literally never an issue.

>>96296979
I'm going with chainswords, power mauls, and a thunder hammer on my despoilers partially for thematics (word bearers) but also because they're going for punching tacticals and I want reliable wound rolls over breaching

My assault squads on the other hands are going to be armed with chain axes and power axes, but with the Sergeant having a tainted weapon to really weaken tacticals since the phase applies immediately after the strike group even in the same initiative

>>96297067
Not with an apothecary, unless you are UM

>>96297080
>you're objectively a retard.
He is not wrong though, vanguard is easy to avoid on melee units, you just react walk away from them and now they get cucked on their vanguard attempt you are pyaing for shit like vanguard 3, but getting vanguard 3 on a melee unit is not easy.

>>96296704

...my dude. The White Scars ability also buffs their setup move as well. It buffs the movement stat, which is what is used to calculate the distance. Sure, the Wolves get further in that instance with their bonus, but they don't also get the buff in the movement phase, so overall the effect is around the same and more multirole.

the only thing that the Wolves get is a lot of power-weapon equivalents with Reaping, which is situational, but could I suppose be tilted into via MSU.

Has someone tried the rules from there:
https://hh-ageofdarkness.itch.io/
They created errata documents after 1000 test games and added some supplements, including an Eldar book.

>>96297061

It's also why Masters of Signals are probably going to get spammed this edition. Or maybe the odd Damocles if someone already had the model.

>>96297116
>you just react walk away from them and now they get cucked on their vanguard attempt
On a 1 point objective that does literally nothing other than handing the objective to your opponent
And most units that have vanguard simply couldn't hold objectives before to begin with so no, it's not really a downside.

>>96297116
he's entirely wrong. Losing 1 of 2-3 total reaction points every turn and having to give up free ground for enemy to move onto is an expense. And since you don't have vanguard, the opponent has all 3 reactions on his turn and is not obligated to step off and let you claim the objective when your turn comes, he just keeps camping it all game long and you lost because your brain is too smooth.

>>96297121
nice, a Lord Cypher Consul :-)

>>96296856

The unwanted interactions are being kept in check by the Cybertheurgy and Arcana rules being quite clear about what can and cannot be buffed, the faction conflicts are mostly just irritating overkill. It feels very paint-by-numbers, you take a character, then you take one of the maybe three squad options for them to join, etc. It's like if you could only join Champions to vets and Vigilators to recon squads without taking penalties.

I may as well write that list here, since it's fairly simple:

Any Arcana:
- All generic Magi, Archmagi and troop Tech-Priests.
- Scyllax
- Echidnax repair servitors
- Armiger Moirax
- Tarantula
- Termite
- Triaros

Archimandrite:
- Scoria
- Draykavac
- Brass Scorpion
- Kytan Daemon Engine

Cybernetica:
- Domitar
- Castellax (both types)
- Thanatar
- Vorax
- Vultarax
- Decimator
- Blood Slaughterer
- Arlatax

Lacrymaerta:
- Ursarax
- Tech-Thralls (both types)

Myrmidax:
- Secutors
- Destructors

Malagra:
- Arcuitor Magisterium

Macrotek:
- Karacnos
- Krios (both types)
- Macrocarid
- All Ordinatii

Reductor:
- Thallax

Sucks to be a Reductor magos, you have an anti-vehicle buff that confers to your unit but you can only join Thallax and S5 melee units without debuffing them, and you can't keep up with Thallax because you can't take a jet pack. Lacrymaerta have a great apex detachment, 235pts for a squad of 9 S6 W3 Ursarax is amazing value, but they have to join Thralls to use their ability, and joining anything to Thralls completely defeats the point of Thralls because it removes Expendable 2 on a unit that costs as much as tac marines, has no armour and can't damage anything.

Scyllax are the universal retinue, although their main purpose in combat is to tarpit people with WS5 and if you attach a character they become able to rout in combat. Repair servitors are decent, five of them can add a nice Battlesmith 2 to your magos' efforts and they're durable for the price, but they can't fight.

>>96297172
>2-3 total reaction points
4 unless you're intentionally gimping yourself

>>96297203
everyone pretends they'll buy expensive deathstars, 4 reaction points, expensive antitank capable of scratching AV14 and swarms of Line on every point, I've yet to see one single list that actually can fit that into 3000 points.
3 reaction points is the norm, not 4. Or they take 4 reaction points then have zero answers to the AV14 kratos popping all their rhinos and vindicators completely unopposed. Or they take 4 reaction points and lose center objective hard and are looking at 1 side vs 4 vp every turn (center+other side)

>>96297130
>MoS make vanguard melee units playable by getting rid of vanguard
Crazy world
They also make command and control squads an almost guaranteed extra reaction every turn

>>96297131
>On a 1 point objective that does literally nothing other than handing the objective to your opponent
That means nothing if its a vanguard 3 unit. Who gives a shit what value the objective is, if i have a tac squad on a 1 VP points and a Vanguard 3 unit rolls up, im going to react way from them, becuase if htey kill me, its 3 VP for them + the 1 points. Pass

>>96297037
>>96297050
Glances were 1 HP damage, and penetrations were 1 HP plus debuff. 1HP+Debuff is greater than the single HP of the glance.
Now glances impose a debuff with 0 damage, and penetrations do damage with no debuffs. Neither is greater than the other, they are just different. Apples and oranges.
I do not want penetrations to be "different". I want them to be objectively better than glances.

>>96297218
It is 315 points (120 of which you were likely already spending to get access to an apex detachment) to get a guaranteed 3 reactions a turn with an effective 4th point on an IN10 check plus line manipulation
If you haven't seen people doing it it's because they are either:
A) intentionally gimping their list
Or
B) retarded

>>96297230
a dead enemy poses no threat
A crippled enemy does

>>96297218
>>96297250
every pretend list from TG shitters
- has chaplain or apothecary in every single squad to counter status effects
- has super duelist character to win duels
- has master of signals buff for line
- has augur squads following it around for its reaction
- has 5 chainfists and 5 thunderhammers in each squad so they can threaten troops and AV14
- still fits Siege breaker for his rapiers to take phosphex
- still fits Master of Descent for his deepstrike squad to come turn 1
- buys all WS5 terminator retinues, jumppack veterans and praetorians
- every squad in entire army assumed to pay extra for rhinos and landraiders somehow
- fits 60 line troopers into army
- somehow bringing 20 multimelta jetbikes "because that lets you put them where you want them"
- also pretends they'll have several extra squads with suppression gun, stunning gun and panic gun and pinning guns
- pretends they'll have 2-3 despoiler squads in reserves for Interdiction charges also

I've literally seen your lists, they don't even have 40% of the shit you fantasize about because you're imagining 6000+ points in a 3k list.

>>96297229
>if i have a tac squad on a 1 VP points and a Vanguard 3 unit rolls up, im going to react way from them, becuase if htey kill me, its 3 VP for them + the 1 points. Pass
And by doing that you lose the 3 VP for not controling the objective and the vanguard unit still get +1 from it
End result, you are 3 points down anyways
Explain how that's a downside for the vanguard unit
You just made it easier for them

>>96297297
>And by doing that you lose the 3 VP for not controling the objective
He's theoretically reacting off of a 1 VP objective and it's during his opponents turn anyways so he wasn't scoring regardless
If he didn't react off the vanguard unit would be able to charge/shoot, possibly wipe the squad, and score 3vp for vanguard plus 1 for objective
I implore you to learn the rules of the game before posting in the future

>>96297230
Anon glances apply a status effect which last until the next turn ends.
On top of that, if you spam a vehicle with multiple glances they take a HP for each time a already applied status is rolled, so you can glance them down to death. That has not changed, it just takes more shots to do it.

2.0 sucked for vehicles because of some much cheap las canon access and a single shot could pop even a land raider.

3.0 vehicles at least have a chance to make it.

>>96297345
>Anon glances apply a status effect which last until the next turn ends.
Not quite. They last until removed, and vehicles sometimes have auto-repair that lets them try remove statuses at the end of turn.

Just finished 2 apothecaries for my Death Guard. Each one is going into a 20 man tactical squad for some disgusting resilience.
What should I work on next? A 10 man auto cannon heavy support (with an eventual siege breaker), or 2 Inductii squads in rhinos?
Disclaimer: I am well aware the red on the right guys eyes are fucked, I have since fixed it. Also building for 2.0 rules

>>96297363
Yeah but if we are discussing the situation of glancing not doing anything you are gonna be able to apply all 3 status effects to something and then your just causing 1 d each time you glance agian before they get to auto repair.

Now if you wanna talk about something fucked up with vehicles, rules as written all vehicles ignore glances in reaction fires such as return fire.
You cant apply a status effect in a reaction, so vehicles literally just dont take glances.

is it me, or are allied detachments asking for abuse this edition? fluff aside, its an unlimited access to command slots with amazon prime benefits

>>96297411
Its SUPER easy to abuse and i was pointing out how busted it is going to get from the first day.

Great example of an easy to abuse allied is taking 1 artillery command section the artillery tercio and then if you can find a way, take 3 of the heavy walkers with the missiles
thats only like 600 points but you can shit out status effects like nothign else.
425 points is a command section and 3 basilisks which give you board wide pinning 2 checks on demand each shooting turn. Its fucking stupid how much you can abuse it.

>>96297319
And I implore you to stop being retarded because either way the vanguard unit scores 1VP for controlling the objective in their turn, so it literally makes no difference to it not having it.
And you are still not getting that objective back in your turn with a vanguard unit over it
And if you try, Vanguard actually gives you VP in the opponents turn so you are feeding the enemy
And even if you do some movement bullshit to be in range of the objective while not fighting the vanguard unit for it, you just put yourself into auto charge territory next turn.
And all of this assuming that your 4" movement reaction, if you actually have the points to use it, even gets you out of charge range to begin with

>>96297447
As a TO I'd probably limit the number you can take (if my league ends up playing this edition). As a player though I want it to cherry pick unlimited command choices as it takes a lot of pressure off the primary detachment

>>96297411

It is odd just how much stuff is totally compatible with allies, yeah. Mechanicum can buff allied vehicles, dreadnoughts and even any Malefic units (albeit at a penalty), Solar Auxilia can use Legion Aux reactions like the Alpha Legion to jump in front of weapons aimed at allied friendlies like Mechanicum automata and all psykers can go wild with whatever unit they join. Malefic Corrupted Legions units with buffs from traitor Magi might get interesting, they can't be statused or lose combat, and I don't see anything about them losing Line, so get that wall of fearless troops onto that point.

Solar Aux allies seem mostly about spamming lasrifle tercios and/or cheap artillery. Mech can't get any of their Apex dets into an Allied Detachment, but I suppose some Thallax special weapons squads aren't the worst grab.

>>96297484
I have not looked to deep into it but depending on the limitations of what you can do with HQs and where they can go, i could see doing some busted ass shit with some Tsons stuff. Imagine just taking a fat ass block of those SA guys that have volkite, and then giving a corvade psyker to give them breaching 5+ on it all.

>>96297411
You are really free with them but there's not a lot of things to do with it that won't immediately brand you as 'that guy'
No one is going to play with you if half your army are vigilators with paragon of battle

>>96297498
I mean SA artillery is a pretty good TFG move,
480 points is a command section, and 3 medusas which can shit out Pinning 3 tests at 36 inches, or 425 for 3 basilisks and have board wide pinning 2 checks. Its very cheap for very effective status checks.

The little walkers they have too are gross, you can get sun and suppression checks outta them so for like just over 600 points you have a way to deliver pinning, suppression and stun effects at good range.

>>96296146
>>96296173
this is why you have to keep just 1 and make it a heraldry platform

>>96297198
Not saying Lachryemarta buffing Myrmidons was ever illegal or wrong. I'm saying GW doesn't want you doing that. They want you to put the Myrmidax in that unit, and will discourage you from adding anyone else apparently? Idk. Sounds like someone not liking cake so much they don't want anyone else to eat it either?
>It's like if you could only join Champions to vets and Vigilators to recon squads without taking penalties
That's a super grim picture holy fuck. Thanks by the list.
>Any Arcana: Scyllax and Echidnax
That's fucking nothing aaaaa! I can't blame Reductor from copyrighting their Thallax after Lacryaemarta's chinese theft of their blueprints, but this is too much.
I deny Echidnax as Servo-Automata. Servitors are the most common soldier of mechanicum outside their actual legions of Skitarii, and now they are gone. There is no [Generic Troop] for techpriests to join.
Everything is worse with every new edition, no wonder people want to keep playing 1.0!

>>96293575
>Your flesh
>We demand it

>>96296136
I'm looking for a good piece to mount the guns onto and then figure out which guns to mount.

>>96297198
>joining anything to Thralls completely defeats the point of Thralls because it removes Expendable 2
It's the same as Dominators' Expendable 1. An Expendable retinue that doesn't get expendable when it has the IC they are meant to be attached to. What a dumb concept. I don't know whether to fix 3.0 or abandon it.
Mega F for Reductors. GW hasn't known what to do with that concept ever since 1.0

>>96297560
Probably not there, as it looks horrible.

>>96297568
I'm gonna move them back a bit and raise them slightly, and look at an energy weapon without magazines. I have one unassembled termie so I can make a dedicated pose also.

>>96297547

I was expecting to get jump pack Magi and Echidnax guns back in the Legacies doc, since they're slam dunk examples of options that were not included for the official models but had longstanding rules in previous editions and lots of presence in people's armies. The Legacies doc only puts effort into the Marine section - the rules for other armies and the generic Fortifications are incredibly short and half-arsed, to the point I'd be unsurprised to hear they were flat-out unfinished.

If Echidnax did have guns, Magi had jump packs and the keywords were unfucked so that I could actually put my units in their own transports I'd be reasonably happy with this edition's Mech. Not overjoyed, there's some overcosted stuff and truncated options lists, but it would be fine. The Echidnax stats are decent enough that a few multimeltas would be a fine Reductor retinue/buff target, and twelve flamers would be a funny unit to cram into a Macrocarid or Termite.

>>96297218
How am I going to afford an Augur Command RETINUE? I already used my Apex and Logisticals on terminators and their transports.
I'm not going to bring a Delegatus to unlock an Augur command.

>>96297579
Not quite the same shape, but maybe something like this?

>>96297579
I think the issue is the angling on the magazines. Having them be a bit diagolial (and removing the ironsights) would help imo. Also add a bit of a heavier contraption for aiming, they look weird just attached to nothing.

>>96297345
>you can glance them down to death
Bullshit. Some anon mathed something like 300 pts to kill a 60 pts Rhino because you'd need to roll the same status to do a hull point. You'd progressively fill out the statuses along the way to HP chipping instead.
The enemy will have a useless vehicle that cannot move, cannot shoot and cannot react, this is true. I don't care.
I don't want tactical casualties, I want to kill the enemy dead.

>>96297647
It takes between 6 and 8 glances to kill a rhino.

>>96297647
Do you want a fucking situations of 2.0? Where no one brings vehicles at lal because they are so dog shit you cant even get them to last more then a turn? Because thats how you get there.

>>96297484
>As a TO I'd probably limit the number you can take
Booo. Stop chaining your players, anon. Isn't there a 50% pts limitation? Expeditionary fleets were a dozen hundred marines surrounded by literal millions of imperial army.

>>96297484
I would wait to ban shit until after it shows itself to be problematic.

>>96297676
>i would wait for something to be shown problematic
>You need to wait for it, you dont know if shit is going to come outta my ass anon.
Anon you dont need to be Nostradamus to know when something is bad for a game or system.

This is not me ripping on your specifically but its just something i really fucking hate that the modern table top player does. Is that somoene who has literally almost 2 decades of experience will say "Hey this is a really bad system or mechainc and needs to be fixed/removed" and then peopel who just hopped on the edition will start scretching and saying
"NMO! NO you dont know that! you dont know its a bad thing you need to let it play out YOU NEED TO PLAY 100 GAMES WITH THIS SYSTEM BEFOREYOU CAN HAVE AN OPINION ON IT THATS NEGATIVE!"
As if having 20+ years of table top experience accounts for nothing like its the weirdest purity test ever.

>>96297691
You can have all the retarded opinions you want, but if you start making faggy rulings and homebrews and events limitations based on gut feelings and hunches rather than data or experience youre a fucking queer.

>>96297455
>Vanguard is not an active detriment on this one objective type that I had to be reminded we were even talking about so therefore it's not a bad rule
Lol
>And you are still not getting that objective back in your turn with a vanguard unit over it
A unit of tactical marines need to get a whole 4 models on the objective to outnumber most "worthwhile" vanguard units
Or any unit only needs a monumental 1 if you can apply literally any status to the vanguard unit from the rest of your army

>>96297621
Not the worse idea but my ability is a limiting factor here. Asymetrical guns sounds cool.
>>96297634
The heavy bolters aren't getting used.

>>96297704
you seem upset. how many allies were you planning to take to LVO, anon

>>96297704
>limitations based on gut feelings
This isthe problem, its not gun feeling, its litearlly fucking 20 years of dealing with this bullshit, and i have seen shit like this before.

Im not even that TO anon and i know how this goes down, the Allied system is fucking bonkers with how much you can break it and would need to be limited because other wise, it turns into a cheese fest.

Thats not a gut feeling, that's experience and knowledge.

>>96297728
Zero, armies look better cohesive.

>>96297661
2.0 vehicles suffered because they could be exploded by the myriad lascannons with Sunder that were also good for everything else.
Now Lascannons lost Sunder (good), and aren't good at killing everything anymore (good), and Vehicles can no longer explode (okay)...let's keep on changing stuff now that we fixed the problem! It is sure not to bring any unintended consequ- now you need a Laser Destroyer to kill a single Rhino? Huh?

>>96297733
Shatterd Legioncels on suicide watch

>>96297736
>now you need a Laser Destroyer to kill a single Rhino? Huh?
Except you dont. Laser destroyers are GOOD at killing rhinos, but theyre at most Av12, plenty of shit can kill them.

I'm working on a chart to make picking a reward of treason unit that complements your army easier. What am I missing? I'd love to know what I fucked up through inexperience. Once the chart part is finished I'm going to do a more detailed analysis of each unit after I've brought it to a game (real or tabletop sim).

>>96297691
Until you've had 1000 turd sandwiches, you have no say on what they taste like, anon :^)
Now let's bring another officer to unlock the Land Raiders those terminators used to get for free

>>96297757
Thankfully I have a very diverse local group faction wise so I can borrow their units to try out, I didn't realize how many different legion specifics there are (or how much disparity there is between legions)

>>96297761
I fucking hate that shit so god damn much, I hate having to basically waste my fucking Prime choices or HQ slot ot get fucking LR and spartans holy fuck.

Like I said earlier im struggling really hard to like 3.0, im trying, im really trying here.

>>96297484
>As a TO
Literally a worthless opinion, HH is for narrative games. not greasy compfags tournies.

>>96297761
How many games of 3.0 have you played?

>>96297770
>Waacfag crying he has to choose between powerful options instead of just getting them all for free
Maybe this edition is based after all

>>96297715
>but my ability is a limiting factor here
If you don't challenge yourself you'll never grow.

>>96297770
I’m not…

>>96297786
>WAAC because I want dedicated transports to be a thing
WTF? is this edition rotting peoples brains?

>>96297782
>How many games of 3.0 have you played?
>No true scottsman fallacy in action
Fucking pottery.

>>96297796
Dedicated transports are antithetical to the limitations of listbuilding and are by their very existence inherently WAAC, yes

>>96297809
>Dedicated transports are WAAC now
Holy fuck 3.0 really is rotting peoples brains.

>>96294122
Building legionaries, also just finished building a box dread. Waiting on my paint so I can start on that. Here’s a sarge I posted a while back.

>>96297812
>now
They always have been, to an extent
People just didn't want to admit it

>>96297791
Okay?

>>96297835
>a 200+ POINT tax on a terminator unit to take a LR that ususally died in a single round of shooting was WAAC
Ok, sure man what ever you say lol.

>>96297812
NTA, but while I don't agree the concept was WAAC, the way it was applied just created haves and have nots. Want to use generic vets? Fuck you no land raider, buy a legion specific like a good goy. Want to have a 10 man legions terminator squad? Unless you're one of the like 5 units who get it as a DT, have fun using a HS slot :^). Half the reason why breachers were unviable because their only transport options were swingy termites or expensive land raiders. Fuck DTs, I'd rather take get all the transports I want for the cost of the HQ I was taking anyway to unlock my Terminators in the first place

>>96297656
>>96297345
you are absolutely full of shit. When we actually checked the math, glancing things to death doesnt exist.
S7 autocannon vs AV13, "just glance it bro"
10 autocannons standing still, enemy doesnt use smoke screen, 30 shots, 3+ to hit then 6+ to glance, average hull points taken down is... 0.85. Not even ONE hull point on average. And that's if you get the stationary bonus, without it the average was 0.41 hull points.

What happens when you shoot an entire squad of autocannons at a vehicle is you land around 1-2 status on it and nothing else. Only fucktards believe that is actually a method of killing anything.

>>96297944
>glancing things to death doesnt exist.
You dont need to glance something to death when its Av12.

>av13
rhinos are not av13, try learning the rules before crying about them.

Finally, the "lightly armored APC survives 10,000 years of service," meme makes sense.

>>96297806
That's not a fucking "no true Scotsman" ya dumb brown faggot.

>>96297944
>S7 autocannon vs AV13, "just glance it bro"
Why teh fuck are you shooting an auto canon at SV13? Like holy fuck you are literally picking the WORST case scenario situation here anon.

>>96297949
>"glance a rhino to death"
>"I'm not talking about glances"
This is how retarded anime trannies are, they need to jump off a building asap

>>96297975
because that is exactly the situation where a retard says you can "glance something to death", yah fucking retard child.

If you have a strength 12 lascannon shooting an AV10 tank, you're not "glancing something to death", DEEEERP

3.0 shills and fags who play that garbage edition sound like a beaten woman in and abusive relationship. Convinced that things will get better. You’re all fucking delusional. Go back to 1.0 and fix the things you have problems with there.

>>96297991
Anon fucking NO ONE is suggesting that, no one has even suggested that you use a weapon that can ONLY glance something on a 6.

Like WTF are you talking about? you can glance AV12 and 11 down with S7, but if you are using S7 against AV 13 you are fucking retarded.

>>96298000
it's clear they simply don't play the game. Every single post I've seen from a shill saying "I played 3.0 it wasn't so bad" it was some 1k-1.5k demo game where the 3rd edition rules weren't interacted with at all. 1000 points just means step on dah circle, no using terrain, no using detachments, no using rock-paper-scissor units, or snipers or anything about 3rd edition.

>>96298007
Am I missing something? The chance to glance is this same in all three of these scenarios, 1/6. You're just more likely to pen against AV 11 or 12, but that's the outcome we're looking for, we want to see how likely it is to glance something to death

>>96297782
You're literally asking me how many shit sandwiches I've eaten, anon.
How many have you, that you became such an expert?

>>96298007
the amount of damage dealt by glances is the same no matter what their armor is, you stupid fucking moron.

Penetrating hits are not glances and penetrating hits never inflict a status on a vehicle.

If you glance on 4, pen on 5 and pen on 6, you're killing a vehicle via penetrations.
As has just been shown to you, 30 autocannon shots doesn't even start doing glancing damage to something - so how does your fucking 50 IQ child brain think that 10 krak missiles will somehow "glance something to death" when you inflict 0-1 status with 10 krak missiles and thus 0 points of glancing damage?!
Please do explain your retarded lack of math understanding.

>>96298028
No, that other anon is just mentally retarded. He thinks there's a higher chance to glance something with a tiny number of high strength shots than a very large number of lower strength shots (i.e. his brain don't work right)

All shooting a Higher Strength gun does is make sure penetrations kill it before you can ever stack 3 status and start to do any glancing damage at all.

>>96298028
It's retards moving the goalposts only to realise they defeated their own arguments in doing so.

>>96298028
Anon picking the absolute worse case scenario is the most cherry picked situation ever.
No one here has suggested that by "Glance to death" we mean you go out of your way to specifically get only glances it means you can kill things with a glance on top of the other shit you are able to do to the tank.
If there was a misunderstanding at some point in what we were saying when we mean something is glanced to death then i will appologize for myself and them.

But to clear it up. Glance to death does not mean. "Im going to shoot a target with a weapon taht can only glance on a 6" It means, "Im goingto shoot this thing that can be pens on like a 5 or 6 and glance on a 4, and those 4s can still possibly cause a hull point via a glaning hit."

again, if you are shooting S7 into AV13 you deserve everything you get.

>>96297809
>Dedicated transports are antithetical to the limitations of listbuilding

>>96298034
I don't eat shit sandwiches because I'm not a pajeet. How many games of 2.0 have you played? 1.0? When did you last play? What was your army? Do you play ANY games or are you another armchair reading faggot?

>>96298015
>no using terrain
EVERY Core Mission requires terrain. It's very hard to run 1000 pts without any detachments unless you're throwing down a Spartan or tac+rhino+hqmaxxing. Do better.

>>96297615
You can just use a prime to get a retinue slot

>>96298055
>By glancing a rhino to death with 6 - 8 glancing hits I actually meant killing it with penetrating hits

>>96298015
The problems of 3.0 get worse the more points you start to play with and honestly it gets worse the more terrain you play with too because the headache of terrain starts to appear as well.

So, are bolters a variant of autoguns?

>>96297889
I would have sooner unlocked Land Raiders, Dreadclaws and Caestus for Veterans, than lock everyone else's transport behind an Optae's "Master of Transports TM" tax.
Balance is buffing the trailing unit, not nerfing everyone else down to their speed!

>>96297705
You cannot score objectives while locked in combat at all, doesn't matter if they have stasuses or not.

>>96298084
No, it means you can hit something with a glance and still get it killed.
If you are laying S7 into AV13 you are doing something horribly wrong. No one is going to argue that you can glance something to death at htat much of an extreme anon.

>>96297975
>"Predators SHOULD be immune to autocannons from the front"

>>96298082
you're really a special kind of handicapped.
If a game is so small that people only have enough troops to stand on the 3 circles, they're not putting troops into the buildings all over the battlefield.
It's not a tough concept to imagine at all for people who have an IQ higher than the drinking age.

>>96298100
that's not what the word means, retard.
If you punch a guy and take out your pistol and shoot him 5 times, you did not "punch him to death", you stupid fucking retard trying to hide your mistake

>>96298088
Auto-guns are essentially just what we have to today, with propellant in the cartridge and not in the actual projectile. What makes a bolt weapon unique is that it fires an explosive rocket with its own propellant, not a regular bullet.

interview about C7 upcoming Horus Heresy RPG for anyone that cares
>https://www.wargamer.com/warhammer-horus-heresy-rpg/preview-gen-con-2025

>>96298110
>If a game is so small that people only have enough troops to stand on the 3 circles,
But it flat-out isn't. You can fit 1 praetor, 4 rhinos, and 4 10-man tac squads into a 1000-point list and still have points to either kit those squads out or take another tac squad to hold the backline. A more balanced force with only 1 praetor, 3 rhinos, and 3 10-man tac squads leaves you with about 400 points to play with.

>>96298139
That's the digest. They posted the full interview transcript.

https://www.wargamer.com/warhammer-the-horus-heresy-rpg/full-interview-transcript

>>96298148
Ah yes because everyone wants to fucking play a mirror match of tactical marines. Because now you are casually forgetting that if i wanna add say terminators, you gotta pay for them, and then if they are cata termiantors you aboslutely need to get a hold of a LR to get them anywhere to do ANYTHING, meaning you now have to take another HQ to unlock a vanguard or use your prime to take a LR but a LR and Terminator unit is gonna cost you close to 400 points so now you need to cut one of your other dudes out as well now.
1000 points is not nearly as big as you think especially if you wanna take anything other then a fucking Tactical squad

>>96298000
>Go back to 1.0 and fix the things you have problems with there.

Checked and unironic, but if one's going back to there, one might as well take the things you did like of 3.0 with you. I liked Disordered charges from Rhinos.
Did anyone like anything from 3.0, actually? Except the guy who liked the Glancing table. That guy can go eat a bag of dicks lmao

>>96298035
>Penetrating hits are not glances and penetrating hits never inflict a status on a vehicle.
Can there be a remedy for this? Maybe let glances inflict a single point of damage to the vehicle? Yes it's glancing to death, vehicle resilience is literally the problem here
Also let Penetrating hits inflict a status effect.

But most importantly, let repeated status effects do 1 HP to the vehicle. You'd think that already happens; it doesn't.
You do 1 HP if, BY MEANS OF GLANCING, you inflict the same status effect on a vehicle. Meaning that, if you inflict the same status by means of Shock (X), like Graviton, you do jackshit.
This would alleviate Mechanicum's antitank problems, and lessen dependence on a single entry (Vultarax) by making Grav guns a viable antitank weapon.

It's a fair deal, do consider it.

>>96298171
Siege Tartaros are neat, I guess.

>>96298083
You can use Logistical only once per detachment. I have three detachments, and I have used Logistical on every one of them. I would use multiple Logisticals if it was legal; it's the only thing that will satiate my voracious WAAC hunger for putting cataphractii in a fucking transport like they need to.

>>96298203
Grav guns, and by extension the shock (x) rule, don't need the help

>>96297615
It's going to be hard to fit much of anything in that list because by weight it's 15x terminators, 3x land raiders
You could probably drop a rhino or two if you wanted to rearrange it, but this is an edition that really wants you to have two consuls or a centurion along with your high command

>>96298169
>Ah yes because everyone wants to fucking play a mirror match of tactical marines.
Funnily enough, breachers are more points efficient in defending against terminators with fists/hammers because they still get the same invul as a tartaros while completely negating the benefits of having 2 damage on the weapon

>>96298213
Have you considered that maybe your long ranged terminators with guns that want them to sit still don't need transports?

>>96298203
>Also let Penetrating hits inflict a status effect
No. If you do this vehicles go right back into the dogshit pile. If you want this, you need to give vehicles a cool value and make applying statuses via VDT test against that instead of automatically applying, and stuff like land raiders and kratos get bonus cool so a single lascannon or missile launcher doesn't make a 300-400 point vehicle useless

>>96298088
Bolters are technically special ammo autoguns, but they are prominent enough that the game treats them like their own specific thing, especially when they want to buff certain guns (bolters) but not others (basilisk).
But technically they are all the same [Cartridge propels a projectile out of a barrel] concept

>>96298264
>missile launcher doesn't make a 300-400 point vehicle useless
You do realize that's literally what missile launchers are doing right now, no? S8 + 6 = AV14.
That is, it's the ONLY thing they are doing right now, since it'll take 12 turns to glance a Land Raider to death by means of only glances

>>96298169
>you gotta pay for them
With the free logistical benefit from taking one (1) troops choice? Or with the free detachment you get from the praetor?
>LR but a LR and Terminator unit is gonna cost you close to 400 points so now you need to cut one of your other dudes out as well now.
Hey retard, why don't you drop a Rhino, add an optae, and get a Land Raider? Oh yeah, because you're a retarded doomposter KWAB

>>96298267
>You see son, everything is either an auto gun or a las gun
>Bolters? Autogun
>Meltas? Lasguns
>Mortars? Autoguns
>Volkite? Lasguns
>Plasma? Believe it or not, autoguns

>>96298253
>Don't want to move because Heavy D
>Don't want to sit still either, because Support 1
>Don't want to kill enemies, because no Vanguard
Tyrants are terminators. I am throwing them into that breach, anon. This isn't negotiable

I have identical lists for AL (two Lerneans + Termie Companions) and DG (two Grave Warden + Command). They have the very same problem, and there's no excuse of "ackshually those terminators don't want to go anywhere"

>>96296067
You shouldn’t. Votann are the single worst thing that gw has ever done to the 30/40k setting and are some of the ugliest minis they’ve ever produced. get that fucking garbage out of here

>>96296067
Votann codex entries and fluff are still being come up with. They aren't yet a thing in 40k, let alone in 30k

>>96298316
>>Don't want to sit still either, because Support 1
Anon not every inch of the board is an objective

>>96297830
Wait, Skitarii heads fit on Marine bodies??

>>96298288
And that's why the 3.0 system is tolerable, because it takes 250 points in missile launchers to put 1 status on a 265 point vehicle. There's essentially no efficient way to status a vehicle, because there's only 1/6 chance for it to happen no matter the strength of the weapon. That goes out the door if you allow pens to roll vehicle damage, because then we're right back to any anti tank weapon disabling a vehicle in a one volley rather than it being a rare occurrence to slow it down on the way to trying to out it down

>>96298340
Termies are for assaulting the enemy, anon, no matter what petty lies Fulmentarii say about it

>>96298367
You began assaulting the enemy when you got within spitting distance of each other, the game itself is the final act of the fight and the land raiders transporting your siege tyrants to their positions finished their job a while ago

>>96298361
I will have to trust that answer

>>96298361

The efficient way to status vehicles is Shock weapons, since that just goes off on a 5+ to hit. I haven't seen much Shock (Pinning) outside of grav guns though, which are of limited use in stopping armoured pushes due to short range.

>>96297508
That's not that different from 500p for 3 marine medusas with an optae
Spaming statuses is really not hard, a 10p havoc launcher in any rhino is already doing it across the board
But if you take half your armies points in artillery you are absolutely going to be treated as 'that guy'

>>96298429
>That's not that different from 500p for 3 marine medusas with an optae
Medusas are Pinning 2 for marines.
Medusas are pinning 3 for SA

>>96298442
Also SA artillery subtracts 3 from the barrage scatter roll if you scatter.

>>96293702
The logistical benefit only gives you one slot, not an entire detachment, so you can't use it for an Apothecary and the rapiers

>>96297769
Raptors anti-MEQ? The same raptors with WS5 i3 Hammers? I doubt it

>>96298429
>But if you take half your armies points in artillery you are absolutely going to be treated as 'that guy'
Also its not even half your army which is the funny part, its only like a 5th of it.
Assuming a standard game 3k.
605 points is Artillery commander, 3 basilisks and 3 heavy walkers, you can just dedicate that all to 1 point and sure you might not capture taht point, but you are gonna be hitting so many statuses on that point no one is.

>>96298419
I think you're not understanding what I'm saying. Yes, it is actually very hard to put a status on a vehicle in 3.0, and trying to do it usually comes on weapons that will have difficulty actually damaging the vehicle. This is clearly an intentional choice to make it harder to disable vehicles or hurt them in general, and trying to regress back closer to the old system is likewise going to nullify the gains you made because the old system was designed to make vehicles shit because it was made for a game many editions ago where vehicles actually were unstoppable monsters and not more fragile and less shooty versions of infantry with heavy weapons.

>>96298358
That one does. ymmv on the hooded heads lol

>Costs as much as a thunder hammer, hits at the same time, is worse
Do you think we'll get to see good Excoriator axe rules in our lifetime?

>>96298472
>because the old system was designed to make vehicles shit because it was made for a game many editions ago where vehicles actually were unstoppable monsters
I dont think the system was designed with that in mind, i think that just became the norm becuase the lethality of the game progressed but the vehcile damage chart had remained the same. Rememeber we were using a system in 1.0 and 2.0 where your heavy weapon marines were only able to take 4 las canons in a squad (Demo squads) not 10.
The only vehicle damage table was just a relic of the past, similar to small blast.

>>96298419
>>96298472
I want grav guns to be actually able to kill a vehicle, though, not merely immobilize it.
...or should I abandon my unreasonable dreams of destroying vehicles?

>>96298496
Wanna know what i fucking want anon?
I want a plasma weapon for the rapier carriers you know that?
I fucking want that bad.
Wanna know what that has to do with you? Nothing i just wanna lash out because of my frustration.

>>96298468
>you are gonna be hitting so many statuses on that point no one is.
If you don't have troops on an objective to capture it putting statuses on your opponent is not that useful. It's not exactly hard to remove them. At least for marines

>>96298517
It is when you got 3 of them on you. or on multiple units. Vox only works once per HQ choice as well.

>>96298496
And I want a vindicator to be able to fire its gun more than once a game on average. Our goals are diametrically opposed I'm afraid.

>>96298358
>>96298473
That might be really useful for a Master of Descent, got some techy bits and what looks like a flyboy respirator...

>>96298508
>I want a plasma weapon for the rapier carriers you know that?
Real

i fell for it, lads
got two age of darkness boxes late last year to jump into HH
put it on hiatus 3.0 leaks began. 2.0 was the implied system everyone wanted to use at flgs, but it's so up in the air now i'm wondering if i'll start having to travel further to even find a group
now i don't know which edition to list build in
crossing the border to a fucking canadian suicide booth might be a shorter trip

>>96298508
>gravis plasma bombard
Its just a plasma cannon but breaching 5+/4+.

>>96298508
Some things just aren't possible, anon u.u

>>96298582
The alternative is a giant gravis plasma blaster battery. Which fires a bunch of S7 breaching 5+/4+ shots, maybe D2?

What do you guys thing the Inductii rules will be?

>>96298618
More or less the same as last time I assume. NL will have breaching despoilers, sallies will have ws5 sgts, Da will have volkites. Probably have universal support squad or whatever like last time.

>>96293265 (OP)
>Tq
The first model I ever did was a recast mk2 apothecary. I followed it up with a little mkv Autocannon heavy support squad and mkiv Tactical marines with bayonets.
I might actually run the tacticals this edition, now that bolters seem worth shooting.

>>96298624
>Da will have volkites.
Hey they might have disintegrators now.

>>96298639
Thats worse anon, you see how thats worse right?

>>96298624
I wonder what the TS one will be since a better version of theirs is just a regular Arcana now

>>96298643
Well they sure ain't called inductii because I wanted to keep them alive no were they

>>96294122
Putting together some Axetarii for my auxilia. Wish they could treat ANY transport as an assault transport and not just the Dracosan.

>>96298653
No I mean damage output wise. Im pretty sure volkites deal more damage into most targets.

>>96298169
>Ah yes because everyone wants to fucking play a mirror match of tactical marines.
Tactical marines in MY marine legion game?
>>96298508
We both Play a game with sovlful painted and converted armies. I let you run your converted 41% rapiers. What would be a reasonable downside for plasma doing plasma things? Just instant death for rapier teams, shitting out a template or a survivable (but rarely) hit on the crew?

good news

>>96298688
>85 britbucks for plexiglass Ls

>>96298688
There's a level in Hell for these people.

>>96298618
What CAN be? Last time most inductii ditched Heart of the Legion for a sidegrade. Now there's no HotL to pay for the sidegrade.
Will they be a rule at the expense of -1 Ld, Cool, Int & Will?

>>96298713
That and worse line.

>>96298688
Please say sike right the fuck now.

>>96298618
-1 from all the advanced stats and Line (1) maybe in exchange for similar benefits to what they had before.
Maybe the Sgt doesn't have access to Sgt weapons list either

>>96298713
They'll be a prime upgrade because GW still doesn't understand that these shouldn't be an upgrade, or even a side grade, these should be 7 point marines with WS3/BS3 and 6 in all mental stats, basically guardsman with S4, T4, and power armor

>>96298688
Words fail me.

>>96298713
Worst case scenario: Prime Advantage that gives Expendable 1 and some "fluffy" but useless rules

>>96298735
Marines shouldn't get guardsmen in power armour. Inductii should be a gimmicky marine side grade.

>>96298688
The world really did end
We are in hell after all

>>96298735
>7 point marines with WS3/BS3
Yuck! If I wanted Solar Auxilia I'd get Solar Auxilia
>>96298746
This is a real fear. Fuck Prime benefits, I need all the Logistical I can get already. I need to afford all the dedicated LRs I already had

>>96298735
>these should be 7 point marines with WS3/BS3 and 6 in all mental stats, basically guardsman with S4, T4, and power armor
This is actually the worst fucking idea I have ever heard I hope you choke on your own tongue in the dea dof night

>>96298735
Cheap marines are an abomination, never suggest this again.

>>96298735
Inductii are fast production troops by marine standards. It still takes at least a year to make them. Plenty of time to get some training in.

I second giving Inductii WS/BS3 but they should have a Vet Sergeant attached. These are rapid-produced super humans thrown on the front line as fast as they can be produced

>>96298735
Hairy hands wrote this post.

>>96298856
Training for most guard regiments during the crusade was at least a few months plus drills while travelling in ships.

A year just isn't enough time for WS4/BS4.

>>96298565
It’s a characterful head. I have some autistic lore for that particular sarge already, mostly because I like that bit.

>>96298896
Year at minimum. The process was in no way uniform and codified, so likely took longer. Marines also receive a lot of training through hypno-therapy and such, plus got better equipment they're better trained to use.

>40k Scouts have years and years of training: BS/WS3
>Heresy Inductii get maybe a year of training before live fire: grognards on /hhg/ think they should be BS/WS4

>>96298087

I've taken to halving GW's reccommended points levels because I know full well they just say that to try and get people to buy more of their stuff. 1500pts was the ideal for Ligma, and it will be ideal here.
Incidentally, a lot of pre-1.5 TOW's issues with Dragonlords dissappear at the 1500/1250 point level too.

>>96298965
40k Scouts have always been BS/WS4
Wtf are you on about

I like this general. People have different takes, are genuinely convinced the other side's takes are retarded, and are willing to fight to the death for them (while shitting the overall discourse).
This is the real essence of the Horus Heresy

>>96298163
>>96298139

>It isn't just a lazy Wrath & Glory conversion
>Everyone get's to be a Consul
>Loyalist Legions only so far
>Everyone get's a company of redshirt marines like a cross between Only War and the Star Trek RPG

Uh, Cubicle, what are you doing this sounds actually good? That said, I can see one potential problem with in that they'll have to glaze the fuck out of the other Consuls to stop every player from just going Moritat.
Like... how are you going to get people to play Armistos or a Siegemaster when you could be a rooting/tooting Space Marine Tactical Cowboy?
I mean, okay Siegemaster could work if they make Phosphex fucking terrifying for once, but you all see my point, right?

>>96298322

This. I swear they are making them physically repellant to punish everyone who joked about wanting them back.

>>96298484

No. All of it's potential is always leeched by that editions Falax Blades. This will happen every edition until it's retconned into just being a Heavy Chainsword.

>>96298965
People been complaining about BS3/WS3 scouts ever since GW decided to make them that.

>>96298981
probably conflating BS/WS3 with 40ks BS/WS3+

>>96298981
No they haven't?

>>96299032
Fuck WS3/BS3 marines, really.
YES I'M LOOKING AT YOU, RAVENING MADMEN

>>96297809
Anon then why would they put dt slots in the primary detachment lmao. How do you expect anyone not playing ws to get terminators into melee lmao

>>96299051
No one cares about 1st and 2nd edition

>>96295145
2x Hammer of Olympia looks like it's going to be a mandatory core of IW, I think.

>>96299062
Just buy® the new® Master of Transports® HQ tax, anon, it's so easy!
Removing Dedicated Transports was probably thought of by the same people who give you QR codes instead of a physical menu at restaurants

>>96299062
>How do you expect anyone not playing ws to get terminators into melee lmao
By buying a normal heavy transport? Or just deep strike.

>>96299079
What about 5e and 7e?

>>96299107
Wow i fucking hate that but its true!

>>96295145
>Night Lords
You cannot seriously want more than 3 Atramentar terminator units, anon. The associated non-dedicated Transport costs would bury you.
Even if you went for deepstrikes, there's not enough turns in a game to deepstrike more than 3 units

>>96299079
They were ws/bs3 beyond 2e you cuck. It's what made space wolf scouts unique in 3e, since they were effectively vets in scout armour.

Scouts didn't gain ws/bs4 until 4e or maybe 5e

>>96299137
Oh so it's only been 21 fucking years of them being BS/WS 4
Just for 7 out of 10 fucking editions of the game
That sure justifies saying they are WS/BS3 then

>>96298981
They dipped for a little while when GW realized nobody wanted tacticals. I forget the edition.

One should never generalize...but I have the gut feeling no-one's buying nuncio voxes

>>96299170
they are in my homebrew where they extend unit coherency to 3"

>>96299188
I always end having my infantry form shoulder-to-shoulder semi-circles two lines deep, because i want all the guys at max distance. I wouldn't know what to do with that :(

>>96299170
I'm taking them in some of my lists where I have a 1:1 of Command and Line.

>>96299161
>>96299040
>>96299032
>>96298981
>>96298965

How about if you want BS/WS3 marines you play militia/cults with survivors of the dark age and actually put in the effort to convert the (or proont some ad hoc) design into some proper jank looking power armor.
> BUT MUH LOOOREEEEEE
If the mark 5 came about as stapling random leftover pieces because the heresy was so treacherous to the supply lines/attrition then spamming actual retards to fill out the dwindling supply makes less sense. Just ally with militia for raw bulk numbers and let the marines do the competency demanding work.
>I was arguing against WS/BS3 marines you retard.
Ok anon, just don't ally then.
Listen guys, maybe allying should be more common to shore up some lore gaps. This is the entire empirium civil war.

>>96299161
You are the cuck that said 'they have always been WS/BS4', no one else brought it up until you did you raging turbo nerd.

>>96298965
40k scouts were only WS3/BS3 in 2e, a bit of 3e and then for a while in 5e.

They've been hitting on a 3+ for over 15 years now.

>>96299203
the idea is that its a little upgrade to improve mobility, potentially reduce casualties from blasts on large units like tacticals and help dispute objectives better, a potential benefit might also be exceeding enemy pile in distance thus reducing casualties especially against small elite units. Probably only useful for tacs, despoilers, assault etc.

>>96299318
Anon making all blasts 1 shot is not "potentially reduce casualties from blasts"

>>96299265

Are we actually getting Militia and Cults back? That would be nice, I could use psykers and chumps in the same allied detachment. I suppose only Librarians get the good disciplines, though.

You can tell legacies was damage control because all of the word bearers characters have anathemata discipline when the diabolist discipline would both make more sense to have either in addition or in replacement and would actually make the burning lore praetor upgrade worth it

Seekers look good, what's the best way to represent them with plastics? Try to hog all the heads that have the monocle targeting eyes on them?

https://www.wargamer.com/warhammer-horus-heresy-rpg/preview-gen-con-2025

Article about a HH TTRPG. Apparently loyalists only though, although one may play loyalists from traitor legions. Will be playing a Consul apparently. It's a tad strange, reading this interview it almost does not sound like a team game. I'll be on the lookout for more news.

I think this is the list I shall be building and painting towards. Could swap the armistos for a divination librarian if I wanted to be a bit meaner.

>>96299476
>Apparently loyalists only though
that just means they will release a Tratior splat book down the line

>>96299488
Thought as much yeah.
Maybe there WB will actually be good, unlike in 3.0

>>96299488
Imagine traitors being a DLC in the fucking Horus Heresy lmao. It's literally on par with this kinda thing; they deserve each other >>96298688

>>96299472
If your army is more MK2/MK3/MK4, using MK6 is a good starting point.
For my IW, I'm going to use MK6 with the IW heads for my Seeker squad, then paint their Kraken bolter a different color, maybe red.

>>96299504
C7 rulesets are generally good
WanG was somewhat the exception but they didn't make that.

>>96299476
Wassup slowbro
>>96298139
>>96298163

How can the strongest be strongest alone if they have to take HQ tax?

>>96299455

The Word Bearers look utterly miserable this edition, which is a shame because I was really looking forward to useful Ashen Circle. For some reason Malefic Demonology or its equivalent is never allowed to actually do anything useful.

>>96299573
If it makes you feel any better at least we'll see more WB units on the tabletop **in Alpha Legion hands**

>>96299523
Woops, thanks.

>>96299455
Reminder the rules don't match the lore in the same entry/the community articles, so the pdf 100% was completely redone/expanded after the blowback

>>96299573
Oh I know they're going to be dogshit, I'm just having fun converting and enjoying the fact that I have options in my generic units and trying to ignore the 20 gal vorbak in my case.

>>96299000
I would probably play Siegebeaker for the tactical battles as an IW, or a Breacher commander/Terminator leader. Let me lead from the front where the fighting is the thickest.

Isnmyngaming group the only one that will stay on 2.0?

>>96298688
This can’t be real

>>96298735
Were inductii in 1.0?

>>96299732
They used to be a world eater exclusive thing.

>>96299655
Anon i think you are interpreting that wrong.

when it says one chainfist, it means the model only can buy 1 chain fist.
The entire unit can take chainfists if they want.
Unless you mean where the fuck are the power fists and thunder fists at which point....yes idk where those are.

>>96299713
I have now released a replacement to confusing and unclear models. Instead, all models shal be represented by glowing QR code tokens so there is no confusion on what they are equipped with or represent

>>96299764
That is what I meant, yes. Lore says 'they specialise in taking power fists/hammer/chainfists' rules 5cm below show no powerfists or hammers, but unlimited autocannons, cuz ???

>>96299655

I like how Indomitus are looking this edition. Essentially everyone can now have a T5 unit with shieldwall if they want. And it's not like THammer and Storm Shield Terminators aren't one of the most enduring images of the entire franchise is it?
Hell... they're one of the few things that haven't been lost to the Primaris nonsense. Albeit they're now needlessly chonky. Are modern Terminators even okay to use as Indomitus in this edition? Are people going to have to source old parts somehow? Or do we just use the modern version and field them next to Saturnines so it doesn't look so bad?

>>96299761
So 2.0 was the first introduction then

>>96299779
indomie terminators aren't that great in 3e honestly, they're quite expensive with shields, and volleyfire means the loss of guns is actually a larger loss now.
I still want to convert up a squad because its cool though.

>Are modern Terminators even okay to use as Indomitus in this edition?
They are fucking HUGE motherfuckers. The sculpts/poses look fantastic, so kudos to GW, but yeah they're absurdly large. You can use them, but they will look wildly out of place next to tarty/cata terminators in my opinion, but I'm sure some people will still do it.

I was planning on using old terminator models and/or the iron hand ones, and converting them to be more 30k appropriate.

>>96299779
Honestly, I'd use the new Indomitus. It seems obvious we're getting upscaled Cataphractii and Tartaros anyway.

>>96299779
Big chonk.

>>96296622
yes it was on a Xeno (eldar) loving human planet and the entire population had to be cleansed because Xenos taint despite 6 population centers surrendering after the first one was given the NL special.

>>96299779
Not great, honestly every terminator except for tartaros is bad, reason being is the Heavy sub type, is fucking HORRIBLE in 3.0. At max a cata terminator can make a 7" charge. thats it, thats it MAX range.

I wish they'd bring back the MK2 legion heads.
I wanted to get some to make my Iron Havocs look a bit unique.

>>96299779
>>96299817
>>96299804
>>96299839
The ideal indomitus models are the hero series, if you have access to a decent recaster.

They are slightly bigger than the classic indomitus models, their poses are far more dynamic/interesting, but they're not oversized 40k slop.

Also in case you're wondering, although almost no pictures ever show it, they do all have the option for helmets instead of bare heads.

>>96293265 (OP)
Would you say this is too many gubbins for a titanicus base? Its going to be a warbringer behind the line in a SA/militia artilery base

>>96299804
Why not stick with guns then, instead of taking shields?
I think indomitus is in a good place right now. Not just blatantly better than cataphractii like in 2.0

>>96299914

How big are the Medusa models out of interest? Those guys always did have that Indomitus Adjacent sort of look.

>>96300017
Because at that point they're just worse tartaros

>>96300033
Well, duh. That's what indomitus terminator armour is.

>>96300017
>Not just blatantly better than cataphractii like in 2.0
What benefits do you think indom has over cata? Looking at them, I don't really see it.

>>96300024
They seem to be just a little bit bigger than the old plastic ones - a little bit chonkier. THey are explicitly a derivation of indomitus however, so with a bit of conversion they're perfect.

>>96300033

I feel like the niche they have is that Iron Hands can take Hammernators, and combined with Shieldwall, effectively get T7 against shooting. Which makes them pretty much immune to Plasma and almost all the Disintigrators at that point.
Honestly, I feel like Iron Hands get a lot of cool options this edition... presumably to make up for the absolute hatchet job they get in the fluff.

If a thousand Sons unit has a Cult Arcana they can only fire a single Aether-fire gun, and can't cast any shooting powers if they do.

>>96300076
Okay.

>>96300058
>What benefits do you think indom has over cata? Looking at them, I don't really see it.
You mean aside from being troops, being able to do sweeping advances and being 50 points cheaper with hammers while still having the same 4++?

>>96300071

Another thing they get are free Thunder Hammers. Everyone else pays 10 points for them. So they sort of get a discount of about 20 points to start with that only increases from there.
So if you really wanted a cheap 10 man hammernator squad they'd be a good go to.

>>96300076
>may use THAT psychic weapon
Learn 2 read retard kun