Thread 96296095

the PAIN and ANGUISH of being a sexy vampire with superpowers edition
>Previous Thread
>>96276560
>Pastebin
https://pastebin.com/WiCHizn0
>Mediafire
https://mediafire.com/folder/s9esc6u7ke8k5/CofD
>Mega I
https://mega.nz/folder/ePQ1BKhJ#RCosRCh59Ki2Mpb1M9H3Uw
>Mega II (also containing fanmade games)
https://mega.nz/folder/ZbQ2zLJA#DOT-3df6rS2lLet4_RmqJQ
>WoD5 Mega
https://mega.nz/folder/7rQQ1LbQ#16_AiXVGo0P3_rVOJuoZyA
>STV content folders
https://pastebin.com/9i9zhydQ
>General Creation Kit
https://mega.nz/#F!FWJgBTbb!f7d5rARWHYzuI8-8aI-Bxw
>Ideas: BJ Zanzibar's WoD
http://167.99.155.149/
>Anders Mage Page
http://mage.gearsonline.net/anders/
>White Wolf Wiki:
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Main_Page

>Thread Question:
do you actually use the STV books?

>>96296095 (OP)
Nah, they're trash for the most part. And fuck no for munchkins trying to bring any extra busted stuff from them to the table.

I tend to allow player's rituals and custom monstrous traits, though, within reason, whether or not they were printed anywhere.

>>96296095 (OP)
>tq
I found them more interesting than useful unless they nail that specific niche you find lacking in actual books

Can somone give me a hint how to get to the STV contents? What does the SS in the pastbin mean?

>>96296132
The second mega in the op has some. What exactly do you need?

>>96296095 (OP)
I have no idea what the state of WoD books even is. Who's publishing them these days? Is Onyx Path still around?

>>96296140
CtL Book of courts to be precise

>>96296153
>I have no idea what the state of WoD books even is. Who's publishing them these days?
New NuWhite Wolf. The skeleton-crew firm Paradox turned them into after Chechnya has been revitalized so they can act as a debt mule when Bloodlines 2 inevitably flops.
>Is Onyx Path still around?
Last I heard, they split after Paradox defacto-cancelled NWoD and WoD20th by cockblocking them on any further books after HtV 2e. They're doing some ripoff called Curseborne now, I think. There's some holdouts on STV as well, I think?

>>96296015
Prime and Space. The other splats touch on everything else but still wouldnt be as a good as a mage with even 3/4 dots.

>>96296095 (OP)
>do you actually use the STV books?

There's a few good ones actually. I've always felt that Dhampirs being thinblood only was a bit limiting, so Accursed Heirs is highly recommended. It's very flexible, gives you multiple ways to include them, and is very conservative with the mechanics of it so there isn't anything terribly busted there.

Looking for ideas.
See I'm running my first game of vampire soon for a group that has largely not played it.
And I want the first group of adversaries to be a nice easing into the game while still being mildly challenging.
So I was thinking a modest sized group of humans who learned a little too much but weren't tied to the second inquisition at all and weren't hunters, just normal if semi-dangerous folks (I was thinking initially a biker gang, but I'm no longer sticking to that and going to likely go a different route than that.)

Thing is, I want to "protagonist code" the hell out of these guys. Like my goal is for the session to feel like a vampire horror movie from the other side, with the "main characters" slowly coming up with solutions and figuring out the vampires, with the twist of course being that they don't manage to succeed and all die, given that its the players that they're against.
What are some ways I can protagonist up the baddies in this?
Also what are like...50 clever ways to exploit vampire weaknesses, including, in fact especially including wrong ones.
These guys are going to have garlic necklaces with crosses on them, UV flashlights, rules about inviting people into their homes, salt, rice, holy water, etc. They're also going to have stakes and fire, and they're going to shoot animals they see.
Also there's going to be at least one car who's hood and bumper are lined in stakes. I want some Tarantino level shit in here. The stake jackhammer thing from Dusk til Dawn is half a hair too far for what I want; but -only- half a hair.
Any ideas are appreciated.

>>96296338
They can use blood bags as bait, not something extremely obvious like "FREE CANDY INSIDE" , but maybe they leave fake documents about how they're testing their own and their relatives' blood for supernatural stuff and they keep them in a fridge nearby, to bait vampires and it's rigged to blow or some shit

>>96296338
Watch a vampire movie/series with a group fighting the vampires and recreate the protagonists as npcs. Maybe Buffy (minus the powers). You may even keep the names.

>>96296095 (OP)
>do you actually use the STV books?
yes, i know most of them are pretty trash (as most homebrew is) but for vtm i made some local bloodlines based on a stv book with custom disciplines (forgotten bloodlines), adopted the ankou version from classical age and make heavy use of the hunter's armory

and i am also gonna second acursed heirs

>>96296159
our stv trove doesn't seem to have it so nobody donated it yet

>>96296338
You could probably steal the guys from Day Shift and be mostly done with it. Kingsmen and James Bond movies should also cover pretty much everything you would want in terms of gadgets.

>>96295414
No, no you can't.
Infernal Deal aren't negotiable unless we're talking demon lords and yama kings, neither of which could ever be bound as a mage's servant.
Pact levels with normal demons have very specific requirements outside the demons control, your never getting more arcana than tormeent + taints + pact, and you're not getting more fomori powers than your taints, autonomy and xp allow.
Actually, there's one specific case where I'm wrong, pre-20th spectre pacts let you get some powers on the spectres dime. You could force the spectre to give you it's entire permanent autonomy score and net yourself an absurd effective willpower rating.

>>96296338
Make them college student horror stereotypes but with some teeth to them. The Jock is incredibly athletic, could easily go pro and might even be able to brute force a vampire if they aren't particularly strong themselves. The Nerd has an encyclopedic knowledge of horror movies and actually notes what works and what doesn't. The Final Girl seems as if she has almost a sixth sense for avoiding danger.

Initially they seem like a joke, but can push back against your players, and then surprise them with how capable of fighting back they are. But once they start to lose people it all falls apart as each is hyper-specialized.

>>96296338
>What are some ways I can protagonist up the baddies in this?
Low-level Cartel thugs right out of Narcos, model the lead after Danny Trejo. Play it out like From Dusk Til Dawn but with the roles reversed.

>Also what are like...50 clever ways to exploit vampire weaknesses, including, in fact especially including wrong ones.
>These guys are going to have garlic necklaces with crosses on them
AY VIRGENSITA DE GUADALPUPE SAVE ME FROM THE CHUPADORS DE MI SANGRE

>UV flashlights
Borrowed from their cousin Pablo who owns a hardware store

>rules about inviting people into their homes, salt, rice, holy water, etc.
One of them might know a priest.

>They're also going to have stakes and fire, and they're going to shoot animals they see.
>Also there's going to be at least one car who's hood and bumper are lined in stakes.
Cartel niggas actually do this IRL so it's not much of a stretch.

>I want some Tarantino level shit in here.
Like I said, From Dusk Til Dawn but in reverse perspective.

>The stake jackhammer thing from Dusk til Dawn is half a hair too far for what I want
Go big or go home.

>>96296735
>Infernal Deal aren't negotiable unless we're talking demon lords and yama kings, neither of which could ever be bound as a mage's servant.
Drag any Yama King outside of Yomi, you can make them your bitch if you are powerful enough.

Is any given kindred automatically stronger than any given kine, or does it depend on dots? Does the world's strongest man still have one dot in strength?

>>96297392
no not at all the world strongest man and his peers have 5 dots in strenght and is stronger than a neonate with 2-3 dots in strenght

but any kindred can bloodbuff up to 6 dots in strenght and potence is a thing

>>96297242
Ah yes, lets all just become arete 10 archmages Before considering making infernal deals for easy power. It should be a short detour I'm sure.

>>96297242
>still enough to annihilate all but the greatest ancestor
so something that's at best just below the guys who could fight the ravnos antediluvian?

>>96297475
>>96297242
One yama king, the fatass with the biggest delusions of grandeur of the lot was just shanked like a goober, and the other got fucked to death by a mage, so...

One interesting aspect of infernal investment is that they allow you to buy backgrounds that are normally either highly restricted or outright impossible to get.
For Example: Having purebreed 6+ on a werewolf or kinfolk. Not only would they be a national treasure for the garou nation, their blood would be one of the most valuable thing to vampire kind.

>>96297392
Yes and no, and this goes for every version of Vampire. You do not get any inherent bonuses to strength for being a vampire, but you do have access to bloodbuff. Which works different in every version mind you, but all allow the vampire to greatly increase their strength (or dexterity or stamina) at the cost of burning through their vitae.

So a default strongman (strength 4 or 5) will naturally outmuscle most neonate vampires (1-3 strength), but those same neonates can close the gap if they have the blood for it.. This is also ignoring Potence/Vigor, a discipline that also increases strength.

>>96297625
Eh-blech.

Anything worth getting Sorcery would getcha with no strings attached.

>>96297607
>and the other got fucked to death by a mage
*By an archmage
Big difference there. Archmages have powers that can kick incarnae and celestines in the balls.

>>96297633
>Sorcery would getcha with no strings attached
Sorcery can't give you 6+ backgrounds. You also can't use it to get any powers associated with fae/changelings, ghosts, or imbued/true-faith

>>96297649
sorcerer fans haven't read the sorcerer books anon that should be well established by now

>>96297686
I'm the sorcerer fan that keeps correcting the anon who keeps maximum-over-wanking sorcerers. Sorcerers are awesome, but they're also an over-complicated mess with annoying restrictions.

>>96297641
Archspheres are unusable rubbish, because they were written by a retard, and arch-spheres mage's mechanics.
There's nothing an archmage can do that multi-master wouldn't do better.

And a cabal of generalist-adepts with Arete 8-10 would come ahead in most practical scenarios.

>>96297633
You can only get to purebreed 3(everything) using alchemy and a captured Kami. Fomori powers are weird though, they're nearly all valid targets for alchmey 5-6 since they're "inherent" rather than rank/dot based powers. Probably overpowered as hell, but WoD is poorly balanced.

>>96297697
Depends if you're using Master of the Art archspheres or Horizon archspheres. The horizon version are genuinely awe-inspiring and allow you to pull off bullshit like summoning and binding Gaia as your sex-slave(not an avatar of Gaia, explicitly the head supernal herself).

>>96297649
>Sorcery can't give you 6+ backgrounds.
Sorcery is one of the few lesser splats in which you can start with a six-dot power and 8s in physicals.
>You also can't use it to get any powers associated with fae/changelings, ghosts, or imbued/true-faith
Sorcerers can have literally any power, which a bunch of caveats >>96297695 and annoying restrictions, but it's one of the better splats for long game and versatility if not nearly as powerful in a direct fight as even a baseline werewolf without gifts, and tend to fold like wet tissue if caught with their pants down.

>>96297625
Backgrounds are probably the best thing you can spend your precious soul points on, due to how cheap they are. If you're a Mage you can just buy a demonic grimoire and raise your spheres (or skills) that way, completely bypassing the whole demon owns your new spheres and can take them from you at any point.

If the Nosferatu curse in 2e makes you look like you're at Humanity -2 from your actual rating in it, what does a Humanity 1 or 0 Noss look like with negative Humanity?

>>96297737
>Sorcerers can have literally any power
Alchemy is very clear that changeling, ghost, and imbued powers are a hard no. Enchanting can kinda bypass this, but only to level 2, and as a separate object with limited function.

>>96297731
>>96297697
Masters of the Art is a fun book from a fluff perspective, but man are most of the archspheres ass.
>Correspondence
wow you can break wards with Corr 7... which you could already do by unweaving them. Corr 9 is cool but otherwise shite
>Prime
Dicking around with paradox is hilarious, but otherwise just begging for backlash. At 9 you can .... remove dox without quint wow!
>Forces
pretty shit, though I guess creating your own Force is cool
>Matter
shit
>Entropy
wow you can change your destiny background
>Life
one of the few actually useful ones for the most part. Life 9 is amazing
>Spirit
shit, force awakening peeps is interesting. Wonder if you can ''cure'' gilgul
>Time
wow increasingly narrower versions of time travel!
>Mind
shit, besides Mind 9

We really need an overhauled write-up for the archspheres.

>>96297745
>completely bypassing the whole demon owns your new spheres and can take them from you at any point
You don't even have to deal with that or any of the "your avatar will be ripped from you after [Arete + Avatar] years" as long as you don't make deals with any Demon Lords or Yama Kings. The pacts with minor demons can still get you any backgrounds you want without putting your own soul for auction.
A couple backgrounds are outside the power of minor demons though. Specifically Avatar, Destiny, and Familiar can only be bought from demon lords.

>>96297731
Most of horizon archspheres ain't all that hot, essentially just what correspondence + success farming gets you, which is easier to do as low rank effects to boot.

>>96297731
>Horizon archspheres
Kek, remember when Brucato claimed that the Forces 6 in his OC's sheet was a typo, despite it being in the exact Sphere that he specialized in, in the book where other archmages also got their own 6th dot?

>>96297795
Notice how the only actually cool powers are at archsphere 9? Literally every other power is possible at lower sphere levels. Why the fuck did the writers think it was okay making players slog through 3 dots of pointless shit we could already do before we could get something worthy of an archsphere?

>>96297719
>they're nearly all valid targets for alchmey 5-6 since they're "inherent" rather than rank/dot based powers.
Wait, doesn't that include the monstrously overpowered "Brain Eater" ability that lets you farm infinite xp?

>>96297820
(some)mage writers famously didn't think the sphere system through that's why they keep adding nerfs to it

they want mage to by a urban fantasy street level game, but they didn't print that and that's why we had to deal with shit like the avatar storm

>>96297772
Just make a trinket that does what you want it to. You don't need to specify that you're copying changeling innate ability to be deathly afraid of some paperwork, or imbued's ability to be drooling retards.

>>96297820
I think they just wrote themselves into a corner. Like you previously mentioned you can pretty much do almost everything with varying combinations of Adept and/or Master level Spheres.

>>96297861
>they want mage to by a urban fantasy street level game
Which almost no mage fan actually played. Not even these pissy writers wanted to play that and made their personal OCs masters and archmages

>>96297868
My point is they fall very short of having "any power" anon.

>>96297820
>>96297869
Naa, they just gave the archmage writing to wrong people. Both times.

Someone like Sheppard would've done a better job for sure.

>>96297876
> Not even these pissy writers wanted to play that and made their personal OCs masters and archmages
to be totally fair that's not just a mage problem that's a general white wolf problem vtm's signature characters also features: two ex archons (one going to the sabbat and one became justicar) another archon and such
and two wta signature characters literally beefed over the position of choosen one and leader of the entire garou nation

>>96297885
Your point is practically wrong. Enchanters, brewers and alchemists are literally any power specialists.

Just bootleg without trying to slap a no-no brand on like an idiot.

>>96297745
It gets even better. There a whole shit-ton of overpowered backgrounds tucked away in various splats. Not the least being that Every Merits counts as a background too(background rating = freebie point cost) according to vampire.
One of the most overpowered is the "Touched" background from werewolf. Being bad-touched by the wyld adds 1 extra success to EVERY ROLL for every dot in the background(if you succeed, if you fail a roll is adds that many nat 1s)

>>96297909
Anon, you literally can't copy any power over dot/rank 3. You literally can't copy 70% of written powers in WoD.

Can Sorcerers learn Dimensional Science? What would that look like?

>>96297947
>Can Sorcerers learn Dimensional Science?
No, that's a sphere.
However, they can learn hypertech paths that're pretty close.

>>96297947
Is that like teleportation and stuff? If so that's path of conveyance.

>>96297925
Like I said, don't slap labels.

>>96297947
Sphere effects are a bit different. Sorcerers can't copy the whole sphere, they can only copy Rotes.
However, sorcerers also don't need alchemy/enchant to copy rotes. Any human can use mage rotesup to 3rd level and sorcerers can copy higher level rotes if they have close enough paths to substitute for the needed spheres. This is one of the few ways sorcerers can combine paths for greater effects.

>>96297967
no dimensional science is a techno version of the spirit sphere with a slightly higher focus on the umbra itself

>>96297978
Anon, that's literally breaking the rules of how paths work. As an ST I would be kicking you in the nuts for trying that.

>>96297947
A reffluffed Summoning, Binding and Warding in practical terms.

>>96297795
archspheres shouldn't exist

Wish mageshitters would fuck off to their own thread so we could discuss something that isn't mageshittery for dozens of posts on end for once.

>>96298011
dimensional science is more about travel through different dimensions and the manipulation of them than summoning and binding tho

>>96298040
>>96297947

Rolled 2, 7, 1, 10, 6 = 26 (5d10)

>>96298036
*turns you into a chair*

>>96298040
What is the technocracy equivalent to summoning and binding?

>>96297999
Paths do what they say they do. If you're too stupid to figure out a combination of trinkets and potions to get you the result you need without referring to imbued or wraiths (as if they are all that strong to begin with) or enlisting the latter's direct assistance that's a you problem.
>hurr durr im tough guy and st trust me
Now that's just infantile.

>>96298098
the spirit sphere, they don't all have it switched that out for dimensional science in general only void engineers and some iteration X guys have it

syndicats for example use normal spirit to summon the spirits they then pay in converted cash to do stuff for them

>>96298036
Sorry sir, back to the government mandated bloodsuckerposting. Does anyone else think Thaum is too good? Is Ravnos racist?? Big titty Vicissitude gf where???

>>96298116
I see, you're trolling. Should have caught on faster.

>>96298062
Don't forget to pop that 10 anon!

>>96298098
it's still dimensional science but it's just that they have a harder time with that (much like how Spirit sphere can still do what dimensional science does but is worse at it)

>>96298132
Oh I know, let's talk about Beast! That NEVER gets old!

>>96298161
I think anon is trying to make fun of the sorcerer-wanking anon, but got him confused with the infernalist encyclopedia anon. Infernalists can buy and use any power in the books regardless of splat, not sorcerers.

>>96298098
The Syndicate bribes them until they are their bitch.

How to seduce and impress Tremere girls?

>>96298190
Woofs are gonna freak!

Rolled 9 (1d10)

>>96298168
I got too few successes to do anything, assuming that the roll is at diff 9.

>>96297868
Ehh, I really don't want to spend all the XP, time and research to just get the equivalent of plus 1 Soak, 1 Extra Action and 1 Strength, with side effects and literally needing stuff from the supernatural I am trying to replicate. With no access to Level 3 powers.
And no access to actually good innate powers like Garou regen, Imbued Second Sight, Vampire halving of Bashing etc.

On the topic of Sorcerer and STV: What do we think about Sorcerer: Paths of Power?
Skimming through it right now and it seems like a cleaned up version of revised

>>96298190
>Unless the spirit is doing something outlandish
Shouldn't matter in the slightest to whether an effect is coincidental or not.
Why to so many mage writers fail to comprehend spirit isn't a sphere whose main balancing mechanic ISN'T PARADOX. Spirit is balanced by the need to play spirit politics and chinimage in order to not get squashed by angry incarnae. Spirits using their own magic has zero bearing on a mage, because it's by definition a.) static magic and b.) not the mage doing it.

>>96298062
>>96298220
I block your gay little spell and rape you instead.

>>96298225
*With no access to beyond Level 3 powers

>>96298220
>assuming that the roll is at diff 9
It's a life 3 matter 3 effect. It'd be difficulty 8 at max if its vulgur with witnesses. We're on an awakened forum and you should have lurked here long enough to make the site a personal foci, so it should be diff 5 quintessence expenditure if you didn't do something retarded.

>>96298245
>diff 5 quintessence expenditure
*diff 5 before quint spending

>>96298227
decent
Sorcerer's companion is alright too
thought to be fair anything is better than what we got in Sorc20

>>96298245
you need life 4 to transform other people
it would be life 3 if I were transforming myself into a chair or pickle

>>96298225
>Garou regen
werewolves are not on the exclusion list. One of the examples in revised is literally a potion of werewolf regen.
That potion of 1in all physicals was made by a retard. Dude could have made 3 potions to have 3 in all physical disciplines, spent more time on the research roll to iron out the side effects, and set it with a mana spending mechanic for the full effect of each discipline.

>>96298227
It's pretty terrible honestly. It fails to address any of the fundamental issues with sorcerer. Mix-and-matches 5 dot static paths with 6 dot aspect paths instead of sticking to one system, and adds a number of unnecessary extra limitations on top.

>>96298196
Since I have the Rich Bastard's Guide to Magic open, give them a gift that will last them forever and still be useful. It will remind them of you when they are Ancilla, Elder and eventually, Methuselah. Give them a laptop and it doesn't matter when the year is 3025 and they use super advanced quantum crystal facilitators, it will turn to that.

>>96298184
>sorcerer-wanking anon, but got him confused with the infernalist encyclopedia anon
Sorcanon's worst offence is that he deliberately ignores difficulty mods, burning through willpower like crazy, and generally nasty difficulties that become worse as he tries to cast without willpower or hang spells.
Infernananon assumes the most munchkin reading of RAW when dealing with beings who are all but obligated to dick him over at every opportunity, especially since he tries to cheat them.

>>96298290
>It will remind them of you when they are Ancilla, Elder and eventually, Methuselah.
Bold of you to assume she won't die while botching a ritual or during the obligatory blood certamen Klingon promotion

>>96298306
>munchkin reading of RAW
According to the grognard from a couple threads ago, would it be the most "minmax" or "optimizer" reading since he's being a rules lawyer, not outright breaking the rules?(The irony of an "Infernalist Rules Lawyer" isn't lost on me)

>>96298315
Anon, we are already assuming they can talk to girls. What's a bit more stretch.
But fine, give them this Brooch. +2 to all Social rolls and reduces the risk of Frenzy. This will probably save their lives multiple times across the centuries.

>>96298306
>By our Retard Powers Combined!
A starting sorcerer can outright ignore any attempts of minor demons to try screwing him over, because he can just forcibly bind them to respect an equal-stance dealing.

>>96298331
I don't care, and that anon ain't a grognard, anyway. Just another munchkin offended by people using his preferred "powergamer" pronoun to refer to his nature.

i know everyone is gonna tell me i am stupid for reading m20 in the first place but i am reading the revised hollow one book and i am kinda shocked at how good it is in comparison to their write ups in m20
m20 hollow ones
>goth kids
>victim complex
>might actually be at fault for the traditions current state
>decided that they are the right people to lead the alliance of disenfranchised mages and take the fight to both the traditions and union! because nobody is more disenfranchised than 90's goth kids!
>are in the victorian age book which makes no sense but more to it later
revised hollow ones
>split nearly evenly between those who love gothic romance and lovecraftian horror
>mostly goths, but their main mythos is about trying to become akin to their avatar as a way to divinity so for example (and it's a example used in the book) a starwars fan who's avatar wants him to be a jedi knight would be 100% accepted in the craft
>all about romantizing the past, mostly the victorian era
>founded in 1950
>do not actually mind having "confused" young members of other crafts and traditions hang around with them till they find their real home
>not interested in large organisations and only really bounded together because of nephanti
>have crossover subsects with their own rotes
so goat boy really doesn't get these guys right?

Mage Grimoire: Book that lowers Sphere/Arete/Skill costs
Sorcerer Grimoire: not a thing in the actual books, but it does exist in STV and it lowers path costs. Can even be used to make normies into sorcerers
Blood Magic Grimoire: just a book of rituals

I don't know why but I think that magic books are pretty cool for some reason I can't quite quantify. My ideas for grimoires for some other splats

Fera: Fetish that teaches gifts. Basically a portable spirit. Woofs probably wouldn't approve though.

Changeling: perhaps treasure that teaches Art at a reduced cost. Can also be used to unleash the Art in question, but if you don't have any dots in it or too few, you're guaranteed to get chaotic effects (think Mickey Mouse in the Sorcerer's Apprentice).

Mummy: pretty obvious. A simple book of spells.

>>96298356
>anon is seething
Why are you so mad about an old fuck trying to use outdated lingua franca?

>>96298371
They're supposed to be the crossover splat for players coming from vtm. They were always pretty shallow so the fact that they got a decent-ish write-up is pretty surprising. But they are a very 90s concept for a splat so even if Brucato did like them, there's little he can do with them in current year.

>>96298403
>Sorcerer Grimoire: not a thing in the actual books, but it does exist in STV and it lowers path costs.
The reason it's not a thing is because its a retarded concept. Sorcerers don't need a gromoire, sorcery is learnable like any skill. Alchemy literally lets you awaken psychic powers in someone at alchemy 3

>>96298403
mummy can also make fetters and imprison wraiths in items, they also have a history of punishing graverobbing wizards and sorcerers (both real and wannabe) by binding them to tombs forever

so if you want your mummy magic book to be more fancy you could have it a egyptian sorcerer who disappointed or otherwise pissed of horus bound to a tablet

>>96298430
>Sorcerers don't need a gromoire, sorcery is learnable like any skill.
That's exactly why it would exist though. If anyone can learn sorcery, than guide books to do so would exist.

>>96298463
It wouldn't be a magic item is my point. it'd literally just be a textbook like any other "for dummies" book. The STV book needing you to be a legendary enchanter to make one is retarded.

speaking of mage and sorcerer. I know the writers don't want you to play them but do we have a statblock for revenant sorcerers and revenant mages around?

>>96298196
Tarot cards

>>96298521
I believe there's literally a revenant bloodline that specializes in this, forgot the name though.

>>96298403
Sorcerers just pooled their Library for purposes of research and xp discounts. Raiding other libraries was one of the main sources of conflict as well. An average player cabal progressed at comfortable speed, though having to take regular downtimes.

Then Revised happened, and you know Mage Revised lead developer was hell bent on making progression difficult and slow.

>>96298533
>Become a legendary sorcerer for 6 xp
kek

>>96298530
yeah the Rafastio
>https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Rafastio
i am asking because i want to feature them ingame, but i can't seem to find a sheet to stat them with

>>96298530
Rafastio or some shit like that, they're straight up Verbenae
>>96298521
The Black Hand A Guide to the TalMaRaHe has rules for ghoul and revenant Mages. It uses archaic pre-sphere ones, but you can very easily adapt the rules to the modern Mages. Ignore Blood Treachery.

>>96298544
Eh. Difficulty 7 and you can roll 1’s, so even assuming you start with 5 which I think no sane ST would allow, you’re averaging 2xp saved per dot.

>>96298521
Krevcheski were revenant mechanists that defected to Tremere (because Tzimisce were cunts to them for their reliance on schizotech over flesh) and were taught Thaumaturgy.
There are also Rafastio, but they are retarded.

>>96298579
You forgot about pooled backgrounds anon. As a cabal with 5 people, you could have a library with 30 dice in that pool.

>>96298521
I was searching the books for a quote whereit basically says a Mage Revenant is so rare that it probably didn't happen but I came across something I removed from my memory.

Did you know you could have played an animal fucker (dog, horse oxen etc.). Literally.
Man, and people say WTA are the furries.

>>96298567
>Ignore Blood Treachery
As a revised mage player, I usually rule blood treachery rule apply to hermetics specifically as a paradigm issue.

>>96298554
You'll probably need to get a custom sheet commissioned, but you might get something from google. Cross-splat humans have this issue constantly.

>>96298608
here's your Bratovich girl, bro
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodil_Joensen

>>96298544
>>96298579
>assuming you start with 5 which I think no sane ST would allow
Not once in my experience any ST banned Library.
And it's meant to be pooled, starting with ratings much higher than five is a thing.

Starting without any means to learn and stealing textbooks from other wizards like an overgrown rat is fun now and then though.

>>96298632
The funniest thing about library is that stealing shit became completely unnecessary after the invention of the internet, because digital copies can be produced infinitely.
Unfrotunately, so many mages and sorcerers are greedy assholes that refuse to make the pdfs so that they can hoard everything for themselves, perpetuating the cycle of violence.

>>96298627
>open link
>"non-human animals"
D-does that imply there are human animals?

>>96298533
This has convinced me the arcanum are complete retards. Their entire thing is maintaining massive libraries of sorcerous knowledge, but they're so restrictive with it that even their top members take a lifetime to get anywhere with a path. They could be a world-class sorcerer order if they just stopped being complete boomers for 5 seconds.

>>96298667
This nigga thinks humans are plants.

>>96298648
>Unfrotunately, so many mages and sorcerers are greedy assholes that refuse to make the pdfs so that they can hoard everything for themselves, perpetuating the cycle of violence.
Yeah, that's a thing.
But it's not that it's necessary, it's that it's fun. Especially if you frame ratkin for it and/or get other sorcerers, mages and vampires going at each other over perceived slights and past grievances.

Just don't forget to obscure your trail and start with a decent Arcane rating, gotta use those freed background points on something.

>>96298667
Humans are animals anon.

>>96298685
most of you

>>96298672
>arcanum are complete retards
News at eleven.
Cool name and lore aside as magic practitioners they're last and least of the setting.

>>96298672
They are the world-class Sorcerer order. Most Sorcerer groups are like a decent dude with a few apprentices.
Otherwise, Sorcerers are basically a subset of larger orgs like the Traditions and the Technocracy.

>>96298533
doesn't library cap at 10 though?

>>96298719
>They are the world-class Sorcerer order.
They aren't though. Literally any tradition or convention has more members And a stronger average of members among their acolytes and consors than the entire arcanum.

>>96298719
Which was the group that can't even do spells and have to use 50-100 people to enact rituals because their paradigm is that bad?

>>96298719
The arcanum doesn't even rank in the sorcerer orders given in the sorcerer books. That's how small and inconsequential they are anon.

>>96298742
Cult of Mercury is who you're looking for anon.

>>96298765
Ah thanks, anon. Wouldn't wanna be one of them lol.

>>96298719
Anon, when obscure orders from supplements like the cult of mercury from dead magic and the star counsil from rogue transmission are deemed larger and more important than you, then you aren't a world-class anything. The arcanum are boomers with delusions of grandeur

>>96298782
Eh, they get one benefit out of it. Regardless of whatever other bullshit is on the end of one of their rituals, the ritual leaders is Always casting ad difficulty 3 just from the shear number of assistants using teamwork rules for his benefit.

>>96298741
I know that, why would I mention the Trads and Crats?
By Sorcerer order I mean predominantly Sorcerer, with nothing else.
>>96298749
Anon, ignoring the Mage factions
>The Children of Osiris
>The Cult of Isis
Like Mummies, too small to matter.
>The Cult of Mercury
Shitiest Sorcerers out there. The one >>96298742 was asking
>Maison Liban
Never comes up in any single book outside of Rev Sorcerer and M20 Sorcerer, worthless
>Nebu-Afef, The Order of The Golden Fly
Same as the previous order, that unimportant
> The Silver Portal
Marauder based order, that only exists in Sorcerer book. Interesting but they die to Eldritch horrors
>The Star Council
Literally a less than 50 people group and lackeys.
>Bunch of defunct orders
Defunct

>>96298798
>By Sorcerer order I mean predominantly Sorcerer, with nothing else.
According to revised sorcerer, the arcanum is so small and niche they don't even rank among the "Minor and Defunct" sorcerer orders.

white wolf writers are retarded. Realistically if mages were real, they would be sacrificing sleepers and animals left and right to obtain quint, since it's so fucking slow getting it from Nodes.

>>96298730
For vampires, all their shit is capped by their generation with the ultimate cap at ten.
Mages and sorcerers have no such restrictions, and backgrounds that are meant to be pooled like Chantry can explicitly pretty high.
And if Brucato feels entitled to start with personal Library 15, I don't really see why five-seven different wizards can't have at least 11 dots between them.

>>96298813
>Technocrats laughing in dyson sphere, zero point energy, and primal utility
Gotta love correspondence to prime conversions

>>96298813
Now enough about the verbena...

>>96298813
i was putting out the idea of a major industrial chicken farm a few months ago

these thing kill and throw away hundreds if not thousands chicks for minor reasons ever week and by raw each one of those would be 1 point of quint

>>96298830
>The technocracy laughs even harder

For real though. Applying the tiniest bit of engineering knowledge and problem solving to the technocrats makes them orders of magnitude more monsterously overpowered than even their early concept write-ups(which had them in charge of all paradox and the ones that directed the paradox spirits themselves).

>>96298808
Nta grognard here. Arcanum is way bigger than 50-100 members.

>>96298816
I'm sorry but Porthos is an exception :)

>>96298861
That kind of breaks the rules and lore of that same section anon. The cult of mercury alone needs 100+ members per location just to use their magic, which they explicitly can. I thing a writer missed a 0 in that number.

>>96298816
>And if Brucato feels entitled to start with personal Library 15
basic bitch numbers

>>96298855
I mean, quint-harvesting operation was a thing, even if it was used as a
>reeeee hospitals are evil
strawman, the tech is there.

>>96298861
That bit of lore is wrong. Plain and simple. Just like the supposed final list of all the living and dead antediluvians, it's contradicted in the same book and many other supplements throughout the splat. The "less than 100" line isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

>>96298950
I don't know what to tell you, maybe Cult of Mercury is an exception but both OG Sorcerer and Revised Sorcerer books says the same things, Outside of the mage factions, Sorcerer groups are small.

>>96298962
That isn't true of the cult of isis, children of osiris, or the bata'ta according to their own splat books either. The only one I can say for sure it is true is the star council from rogue transmission(they have 12 members I think)

>The sidhe decided that these large wolves would make the perfect mounts for the snowy country, if they were properly ensorcelled. He gathered up his host, and they traveled to the place where this werewolf resided with his pack. Using strange magics, they subdued the great warriors, and placed them under geasa to remain faithful and obedient pets for one millennium.
OHNO NO NO werewolfbros, our response?

>>96299094
Yeah so our historical record doesn't have any of that so I'm just going to assume that you're lying again and leave it be. Remember that you have to sign up on the new website with a verified account to partake in this year's Samhain. Should only take you 10-15 minutes, according to the Glasswalkers.

>>96299094
Sidhe didn't exist in ye-olde times anon. Those were the ages of the True Fae, Dreaming gods who were held to no kith.

>>96299094
i mean they got away easy: c20 has one power that (with 10 successes to be fair) can permanently turn a werewolf into a harmless rabbit

What if, hear me out, archspheres worked like Epic attributes in Abberant?
>each dot above 5 is a special die that you add to Arete rolls (should be a different color dice from the Arete ones)
>each Arete roll you can spend an Archsphere die to reduce the roll difficulty by 1, ignoring the usual +-3 limit
>or you can roll the extra dice with the Arete. Each extra die that is equal to or goes above the target number counts as 2 successes, while 10s count as 3 successes
>you can split your extra dice however you want between diff reduction and super dice on each Archsphere roll

This nicely simulates how easy it would be for Archmasters to cast ''trivial'' effects. In addition at Oracle levels you get the Plot Device ability where the Sphere can do whatever you fucking want without additional Spheres as long as you can justify it.

>>96299215
It gets even worse. To even use the power in the first place, you need the targets true name, which mean reweaving them is always -5 difficulty before you use any bunks.
More than that, changelings can use reweaving on themselves. This allows you to justify buying literally anything you have xp for, be it merits, backgrounds, etc(or straight-up ignoring xp costs and giving yourself things for free, but your ST WILL kill you. Not your character, You)

>>96299285
Anon, mages can literally already do that with wonders.

>>96298608
>I was searching the books for a quote whereit basically says a Mage Revenant is so rare that it probably didn't happen
that's from blood treachery that says that there MIGHT be 1 revenant mage in the world who does not have his avatar fucked by a blood bound and no you shouldn't play him, but both books before and after featured the Rafastio and said that they have awakened members and work only for themselves (although fun fact the whole can't be embraced rule is new in v20 in dirty secrets these guys could be embraced)

>>96297807
merely a typo

Post out of context wod book screenshots,

>>96298601
First off. 5x5 is 25. Second, what fucking ST would allow that? I don’t even mean banning Library >>96298632 but at what point is that sensible or even fun? If you’re a chargen Sorcerer with 5 dots in library ok write me a good reason. But five of them? Why are all of them only chargen then? In my experience and opinion any background over 3 needs serious justification. I don’t even mean this as an anti fun thing, just outright you need to have room and space to grow or what’s even the point?

>>96297625
One thought, what happens if a vampire buys infernal investments that take his disciplines Over 10 dots? WTF would dominate 11+ even look like?

>>96299614
>at what point is that sensible or even fun?
All the time. Not every game needs to be super-serious.
Don't make the same mistake as newfag 40k fans and forget that this is a Parody setting anon. People having light-hearted and comedic campaigns was common once upon a time.
>In my experience and opinion any background over 3 needs serious justification
*looks left*
*looks right*
I can't seem to find who asked.

>>96299614
>I don’t even mean this as an anti fun thing
Yes you do. You're literally telling people they're having bad-wrong fun anon. You are being the embodiment of Brucato, Achili, and Willaims right now.

>>96298521
>>96298554
honestly while it might be a boring answer i think the best option is probably to just use the normal mage one because Blood = Quint for these guys so having two mana like tracks is pretty much just pointless busywork

>Blood as Quintessence: A ghoul mage can spend vampiric blood as Quintessence — once ingested, the substance becomes part of her living pattern. She cannot spend the blood point used to maintain ghoul status, however; only any excess she ingests.
V20 - The Black Hand A Guide to the TalMaRahe pg 151

>>96299765
>assuming anon is using Sorcerer 20
Ew, No. Sorcerer 20 isn't even acknowledged by Mage 20(and why would you use M20 anyway?). The M20 books literally direct you to sorcerer revised.

>>96299765
Merging blood and quint as one thing has a couple balance issues:
First, it would automatically expand the revenant's blood pool to 20.
Second, it would increase the cap on how much blood a rev mage could spend per turn on disciplines, blood buffing, etc.
This would make a revenant or ghoul mage more powerful than many vampire in their own power system.

>>96299796
did you quote the wrong person? i have the source where this quote is from below it and it's not m20 sorcerer

>>96299834
I misread your post. I slink away in shame now.

>>96299826
it's gonna have balancing issues either way, if you keep it separately you are going to increase their quint pool to 30
and it's unlikely that the revenant is truely going to bother with their disciplines which are still capped at one and by the same rules don't stack with spells that do the same thing (and if it is a Rafastio they are also not great for a revenant mage)

>>96299859
>if you keep it separately you are going to increase their quint pool to 30
That's actually intended. Vampire blood is Tass. It expanding your quint pool is part of how it's supposed to work.

>>96299195
>Yeah so our historical record doesn't have any of that so I'm just going to assume that you're lying again and leave it be.

>>96299852
happens. I just wanted to make sure nobody actually thinks i recommend m20 sorcerer in any way

that's a take i couldn't stand for even ironically or anonym

>>96299859
Are you Really sure that revenants would have an issue using paradox-free static magic that can give them extra turns, mind control enemies, alter their appearance, or have unrestricted access to blood magic(unlike disciplines, blood magic isn't restricted to 1 dot max. At least according to DAV20).

>>96299195
it's canon that garou already forgot about a fae garou war on the british islands at the time of the dark ages (despite technically winning it) so those records don't mean shit!
>https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/War_of_Silver_and_Iron
>The War of Silver and Iron ended when the whole conflict proved to be too expensive for the Fae and they withdrew into Arcadia. After the last werewolf who remembered the conflict had died, they eventually returned.

>>96299900
>(unlike disciplines, blood magic isn't restricted to 1 dot max. At least according to DAV20).
do you have the source for that? i wasn't aware of this one and it would both make me retract my previous statment and fix the problem i have with the blood sorcery revenant families

>>96299906
Elfbros... Now that ninggers forgot, we can return and proclaim that we had won

>>96299915
DAV20 Book of Secrets. As an entirely separate thing from mortal hedge/path magic, mortals can also learn blood magic paths and can even substitute the vitae cost with health levels or living sacrifices.

>>96299928
>DAV20 Book of Secrets
*Tome of Secrets
Book of Secrets is mage.

>>96298530
well we have the sammy sheet and a mage/ghoul/possessed sheet
>https://mrgone.rocksolidshells.com/pdf/MiscOWOD/SamuelHaight_Blank.pdf
>https://mrgone.rocksolidshells.com/pdf/MiscOWOD/Mage_Ghoul_Possessed_Kinfolk_Interactive.pdf
just leave out the gnosis and rage stuff
or we have the, mage sorcerer and ghoul add on sheets
>https://mrgone.rocksolidshells.com/pdf/VtM/SupernaturalAdd-On_Mage_Interactive.pdf
>https://mrgone.rocksolidshells.com/pdf/VtM/SupernaturalAdd-On_Sorcerer_Interactive.pdf
>https://mrgone.rocksolidshells.com/pdf/VtM/SupernaturalAdd-On_Ghoul_Interactive.pdf

>>96300004
>>96298521
sorry wrong post

how infernal but non nephandus can a mage be before the traditions become annoyed enough to do something about it? like can a dreamspeaker throw banes at (in?) people? if the order of hermes are fine with binding angels as minions how about demons? i know verbana allow lilith related stuff which includes her brand of demons but from what i got from this general they are kinda the black sheep of mage in several ways

>>96300004
>mage/ghoul/possessed sheet
Jesus Fucking Christ.
Also, WTF happens to a creature that has to deal with both a rage score and a vampire beast? Do they have to make 2 separate types of frenzy rolls or is there a unified system?

>>96300141
>how infernal but non nephandus can a mage be before the traditions become annoyed enough to do something about it?
Depends on mage and tradition.
Choristers are more than happy to call you a nephandus if you have a little too much entropic resonance or fall into jhor once in your life.
A verbena could be sacrificing children to the dark lord in their chantry and it'd just be another tuesday for the tradition.
>like can a dreamspeaker throw banes at (in?) people?
Yes. Many shamanistic traditions wouldn't see anything wrong with that
>if the order of hermes are fine with binding angels as minions how about demons?
"what about"
Anon, binding demons is literally standard operating procedure for them. They view Solomon as one of them.

>>96300181
>They view Solomon as one of them.
*View King Solomon as one of their own

>>96300165
i can't find anything about it the revised werewolf and vampire storyteller guide both just say that abominations
>Abominations may not spend blood points for any reason in the same turn that they spend Gnosis, make Gnosis rolls, spend Rage or make Rage rolls. The mystical properties of Rage, Gnosis and the Blood all interfere with one another
so i assume they don't frenzy together? because rage frenzy and vampire frenzy might not be able to happen in the same turn (although this is just my guess as it's not like you spend blood to frenzy as a vampire)

I was Embraced Lasombra. Where are the goth mommy Latinas?

>>96299670
>nooo you have to let us break the Chroncile by having 17xp discounts on all Paths at chargen or you're just like Brucato

No fuck off, that's a shit take, don't be a maroon. I actually trust my table, but that's because they make actual characters and not munchkin bullshit like this. It's pretty fun to do a variety of things, but what's the variety in 5 guys with Library 5?

Realistically, I could and would allow it, but it would definitely not be a "chargen" situation. They'd have to invest a lot of Freebies into things like Domain, Contacts, Allies, Resources, etc, give me a writeup on their Sorcerous order, their retainers and allies and associates, the expanse of their Library and more importantly their limitations. What Paths have you been searching for and unable to find? What ones are almost complete, but you're missing a gaping hole in knowledge, probably most importantly, who did you get this knowledge from, and how much do they hate you for it? It could and would be interesting. I would at that point not be working with Chargen individuals, so free starting XP to sink into Paths and stats, with the knowledge that we're probably doing something shorter, and with a much faster wind up to big happenings due to essentially doing a lot of the "windup" part of the Chronicle at chargen.

But that's also why I'm so displeased with the idea. Because, to me, and my group, getting everyone TO Library 5 would be the fun part after starting off with Libraries of 1 or 2, and instead of writing up how they got there in backstories, we can roleplay and see how they got there through playing the game.

>>96300165
>>96300235
okay i found something acording to"Under a Blood Red Moon" at least for aborminations rage stays the stat that governs how likely you are to frenzy

>• Ego does not determine the Abomination's chance to frenzy - that is governed by its Rage. However, for every frenzy it suffers, it may lose Ego, depending on its actions during frenzy
so it seems like it's a unified system in a way
i kinda doubt there will be anything on fomori with a beast (ghoul or vampire) so that's probably as good as we will get

>>96300289
isn't your sire one?

How well would it go to make a game of Deltarune using Changeling the Dreaming rules?

>>96300317
>Ego
The ego system got replaced by Gnosis loss in revised. On top of that, a possessed ghoul would be on Humanity and have virtues to roll unlike Ego.
Multisplat humans are fucking weird.

>>96300398
then roll the higher/lower dicepool?

>>96300369
It'd honestly be pretty easy. Anything that isn't immediate possible with cantrips/unleashing can be replicated by specialty gallain like Lycians.

>>96300404
Virtue rolls function the opposite of rage rolls.
For Rage, lower difficulty and more successes is BAD because it makes the frenzy worse.
For Self-Control/Instinct, lower difficulty and more successes is GOOD because that's what you're using to resist frenzy.
My first thought is to make rage vs self-control/instinct a resisted roll.
>Any time Vampire frenzy is threatened and you roll self-control/instinct to resist, roll rage and subtract rage successes from virtue successes.
>The vice-versa would be true for rolling to many successes on a rage roll from a gift, rite, combat, etc.

>>96296095 (OP)
I wanna get into this. Which system do you suggest? Because of a certain youtube channel, I hesitate between Hunter, Vampire and Werewolves.

>>96300444
those are all games with a pretty different focus even if they run on the same dice engine so it's question is more what you are into
we also have always at least two games of each "monster" because of the wod/cofd split but in short the average game is usually about:
werewolf: rip and tear, retard strength and spirits
vampire: backstabbing cloak and dagger undead politics and angst
hunter: well the hunter versions i would argue are the most different from each other so there you would have to tell us which version of hunter you are interested in
the games are not at all limited to these themes, but it's where a lot of focus is on

>>96300444
nWoD has the better system but needs you to do some homebrewing if you want to put the oWoD stuff into it. oWoD is a broken mess but it's all right there for you. WoD5 is the worst of both worlds, do not play. Both Vampire and Hunter are noob friendly. Vigil for nWoD Hunter and Hunters Hunted V20 for oWoD Hunter.

>>96300482
Yeah, but I'd rather stick to something I know. And frankly, I play the Empire in Warhammer, so I'm curious about the Hunter book, because by all logic, mankind should've been wiped three times over.
Also I don't recognize the name, did they redo the old books? I thought it was meant to be masquerade, not requiem.

>>96300444
Just play Hunter the VIGIL as intro. CofD 2e are the best rules out of this branch of the system.
If all you want is a grasp of the setting play bloodlines with a fan patch to actually run it in a playable state.

>>96300444
>Which system do you suggest?
All of them are the same system(storyteller system) and can technically be played together.
The biggest pitfall is: Don't start with 5th edition. It's hot garbage. The best edition to start with is revised core for any of those 3 splats(term for different supernaturals).
Basics of each:
>Hunter
You're not going to be very strong with this. You're a normal human with maybe a couple supernatural trick you picked up, and can die very easily. It's probably the easiest to pick up and get into though because the system isn't complicated.
There are 2 types of "hunters". A.) Hunters Hunted are normal humans trying to figure out the supernatural, think paranormal investigators. A great place to introduce new people to WoD.
B.) Hunter the Reckoning is about people that were essentially chosen by god to fight the supernatural and have some innate powers to help them. You aren't Real paladins though, those would be the people who already had True Faith on their own, so you're treated like expendable canon-fodder by your celestial superiors.
>Vampire
This is more of a social-focused mafia or spy thriller. You're a vampire, your supernaturally powerful out the gate, much harder to kill than a squishy mortal, and you can learn awesome magical powers on top of that.
This is also a pretty good starting point for new players.
>Werewolf
Strongest splat of the three by far, but also the hardest to get into because shit gets weird.
You're essentially a supernatural eco-terrorist who gets stronger by gaining respect from your peers in a fashion similar to gaining respect in a college fraternity or sorority.

>>96300508
Already tried it. I picked a vampire, went in a dinner, lady took a look at me, and died of a heart attack on the spot.
It was like high school again.

>>96300495
Going to be honest. No One should ever start with Nwod. You need to homebrew things to get it right and wouldn't recommend anyone that isn't already experienced with WoD to even try.
OWoD revised is the best "jumping in" point by far.

>>96300499
yes that's the wod/cofd split i mentioned, basicly the rebooted the setting and then went back to the first setting first with a anniversary edition and then with a different soft reboot
it's a mess, not helped by the fact that cofd aka chronicles of darkness was also called world of darkness before they restarted the world of darkness line and the soft reboot (wod5) using the same names a wod
requiem is the cofd version of vampire
masquarade is the wod version of vampire
forsaken is the cofd version of werewolf
apocalypse is the wod version of werewolf
i am not well versed in either hunter or cofd so someone else should answer the questions about the differences

>>96300527
>Started with Nosferatu
Omega-Kek

>>96300548
I actually started with Malkavian, but I was told not to so I restarted.

>>96300537
So Old WoD for gameplay, and
>>96300544
New WoD for lore?

>>96300552
Both nozzy and Malk are for people that have already completed the game, it says so in their description box. How did you end up picking the Only two options new players are outright told not to play first?

>>96300562
No.
OWoD has all the good lore. Some people like NWoD for the smoother mechanics, but its contentious. A lot of people actually prefer OWoDs messier mechanics, but more simulationist mechanics.

>>96300562
>So Old WoD for gameplay, and New WoD for lore?

usually people go the otherway

>>96300566
Because they looked fun to play. And honestly, I played a lot of Touhou, so I'm used to start "extra stage" whenever a new cracked copy arrives.
Starting with it makes the normal mode feel easier.

>>96300562
It's the complete opposite anon. NWoD has less buggy dice mechanics, but it also requires homebrewing from an experienced ST to get things right.
OWoD is more plug-and-play, but you run into a lot of weird issues eventually.

>>96300575
>>96300580
>>96300594
Alright. I snatched the ol' Hunter books from the OP. Time to make a stand, for Norfolk.

>>96297625
>Having purebreed 6+ on a kinfolk.
Would quickly end with you getting captured and raped as a breeding slave. If you're a guy, you'll have single-handedly saved the garou nation before you die of broken-pelvis, congratulations.

>>96300537
>>96300594
Why does it require homebrewing?

>>96300427
that would work, just have the second roll be made by the ST using your stats otherwise it will probably be unwieldy ingame

>>96300627
The translation guides are for first edition NwoD so it does have some gaps when using 2e, nothing major but still annoying.
If you go that rouse remember to use the Difficulty conversion table from the demon translation guide.

>>96300369
You could rule it like that. Fae touched would make more sense but that's probably just lowballing the Deltawarriors.

>>96300622
Can you imagine the sheer amount of Gnosis that would spend to heal and enhance that bastard?

>>96300730
>Fae touched
This term will never stop sounding weird.

>>96301099
The Fae didling people and giving them supernatural powers as payment is just funny.

>>96301127
Kek
That reminds me of that The Magicians episode were the girl had to drink the semen of a god to... get powers, I suppose? I can't remember why she was drinking it.

>>96301040
Does Mother's Touch reset your refractory period? It can create enough mass from gnosis to fill in wounds, so wouldn't it be able to fully re-load your balls for another few rounds?
Autism-Anons, How many garous could our theoretical super-kinfolk realistically impregnate before the garou nation doesn't have enough gnosis left to keep him alive?

Recent books from Vampire and Werewolf have mentioned mages frequently. It is coming.

>>96301529
jason also already said in offical interviews that mage 5 is the next thing they will do

>>96301558
Maybe it'll come out around the same time as bloodlines 2? It could be a plan to resist 2 complete dumpsterfires at once so the controversy around one overshadows the other and lets them sweep it under the rug faster.

At least it's an opportunity to make Hollow Ones not-shit.

>>96296095 (OP)
Been out of the loop for the whole year, has there been anything new of note? What’s even happening to nWoD, are they still gutting it to save V5 or something equally retarded?

>>96301558
Oh. By Mage 5 I bet mages will start having dedicated Legacies for colonising Lower Depths.

>>96300405
>>96300730
Thanks

>>96301658
>Been out of the loop for the whole year, has there been anything new of note?
the camarilla book has been long ago enough that paradox turned white wolf into a child company again, made a big announcement, but in reality nothing really changed as far as we can see, the same people are still in the same jobs with the exception of the brand manager who is now some dnd 5e person
>What’s even happening to nWoD?
nothing, paradox has not greenlit a nwod/cofd book in half a decade now

>>96301678
God fucking dammit. Every TTRPG publisher except DnD seems to be slowing down massively, but Paradox/White Wolf/Onyx Path/who even knows anymore is so slow on the uptake I’m wondering if they’re quietly running out of cash.

>>96301733
Calling it now, Bloodlines 2 bombing will be the final nail in the coffin.

>>96301733
it's really bad right now paradox bought white wolf specifically to make bloodlines 2 and the table top was just to promote that

Bloodlines 2's development was such a complete disaster that paradox already said they are not going to make bloodlines 3 no matter how good bloodlines 2 is gonna do
and wod5 has one controversial game and two total flops
now it seems like they are trying for a final push because bloodlines 2 might actually come out soon! but they don't have any big books to promote because they didn't had a brand manager/director for white wolf for like 5 months and according to Jason Carl they couldn't produce anything before they got one so now they (or rather he) promise a lot: mage 5, vampire the dark age 5, changeling 5, comic book and other video game deals that are supposedly in talks, but he has nothing to show and few are still exited for a video game that was meant to come out 5 years ago...

Are there any Virtual Adepts that use dance like Harry Keough or the old nigga from Fringe?

>>96301772
>paradox already said they are not going to make bloodlines 3 no matter how good bloodlines 2 is gonna do
>Paradox skipping out on a chance to bilk retards with cheap swill
>FUCKING PARADOX
Bait used to be believable.

>>96299906
>In this book, Changeling writers forget about the existence of ancestor spirits and the Silver Record

>>96300524
>gets stronger by gaining respect form your peers in a fashion similar to gaining respect in a college fraternity or sorority

You're actually proving your worth to the spirits. The other Garou before you set up a system for it and swearing to uphold a pact. That's why W5 having Renown makes no sense - no more organized body of Garou, no more pact, no more Renown.

Also, ancestor-spirits hang around their descendants and can sometimes take them over without any say-so on said descendant's part. It's highly atypical, but there are flaws related to this.

>>96301733
Onyx Path got left out in the cold years ago. That's why they're making Curseborne. If Onyx Path had any authority in this, things like the guide to the cam or the entirety of W5 and its issues probably wouldn't have happened.

>>96301899
>https://www.pcgamesn.com/vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-2/paradox-interview
>Life by You is "an outlier," Lilja tells PCGamesN, but admits that Paradox itself "will probably not make Bloodlines 3 - we would probably find somebody to license that to. It goes back to the idea of 'what do we really know?'

>>96301958
>Onyx Path got left out in the cold years ago
This, they're the original White Wolf, but Paradox doesn't want their input, and doesn't want CofD competing with 5e anymore. They officially have a permanent license for making WoD/CofD, but it's dependent on rights holder approvals. At least they've basically been given free reign with Exalted.

So, rather than players getting options that both end up in Paradox's coffers, now OPP gets to directly compete and keep all the money for themselves.

>>96302042
>It goes back to the idea of 'what do we really know?'
Strategy games they can attach $500 of DLC to.

>>96302050
Modern Onyx Path is absolutely not old White Wolf.

>>96302067
>Literally helmed by the same guy as who founded the magazine in a continuous leadership role

>>96302070
Ok and? That’s like saying 343i is old Bungie because there’s a couple guys from Halo 2 still around.

>>96302050
>At least they've basically been given free reign with Exalted.
And that has backfired catastrophically, as the relevant thread can attest. Then again, it's almost none of the original people working on it.

>>96300444
Mage the Ascension revised edition
stop worrying and just embrace the absurdity

>>96300301
NTA
>They'd have to invest a lot of Freebies into things like Domain
Sorcerers can't have Domain. That's strictly a vampire thing.
>Contacts, Allies,
As they generally have at least one dot of Arcane, social backgrounds, especially at a lot of freebies, are more objectionable than mandatory and all require a good reason to have them. Library doesn't.
>Resources
Fair (if only because maintaining a great magical library is a costly affair, and many paths need expensive ingredients), but also should be handled by one player taking Resources 5, high Finance and focusing on securing cabal's, well, resources.

While low power, human to supernatural (Arcanum into Sorcerer, Alen Hunger, eg) games are a great way to introduce new players to WoD, and acquiring new knowledge is fun, now and then, not every player wants to play a hapless schmuck all the time and reducing every game to that dream state of Achilli and Heining who gleefully overstat many a shitty NPC but have an aneurysm whenever a player dares to take four dots in any trait or three in many is nothing but foolish (and if you gonna to, changing progression costs to static ones like CoD did or using a cost mitigation mechanic like Library is the way to go).

>>96302344
>arcane
Arcane doesn’t prevent close family or friends especially not at a mere 1 dot. There’s no way five schmucks managed to gather this many grimoires on their lonesome. Who’s the rest of their cadre? Absolutely going to need this fleshed out because I’m not going to make an entire cabal for them if they’re going to force me into the job of creating all the people who are mad at them for stealing borrowing and/or learning these secrets lol

Frankly, I homebrew a lot. I’ve had Destiny as a Demon and Requisitions as a Vampire. The Sorcerer can have a Domain.

garou can't be used as hosts for fallen because they are too spirit for that but do you guys thinks a mockery breed might be possible?

>>96302377
>Arcane doesn’t prevent close family or friends especially not at a mere 1 dot.
Friends and family outside of the cabal are hardly necessary for a character to have, and almost never something that demands a ton of freebies (they even give freebies if they're dependent or detrimental). Sorcery, especially if it involves high libraries and high path ratings, isn't conductive to socialite life style (certain specialities excluding, of course).
>There’s no way five schmucks
Your problem is assuming that sorcerers are to be obligatory schmucks and never anything but schmucks.
>I’m not going to make an entire cabal for them
The players are the cabal. Sometimes there's few more if they have Mentor/Ally/Retainer/Apprentice traits, but not necessarily, and if that's the case these people are not necessarily at their service as those taken as Backgrounds, but are just sharing/pooling resources (ideally every member of the chantry, player or NPC ought to contribute something for having access to its Library and other resources, doesn't need to be something mechanical, hearty meals or free rides to a location players often visit are good general options if you don't want to give your players free stuff).
>creating all the people who are mad at them for stealing borrowing and/or learning these secrets lol
Mad people by all means can exist if players take Enemy flaws, and it's your right to demand the players make these adversary characters so you don't have to if they took it (or an explanation how they acquired all those grimoires). You can't impose a powerful enemy at chargen without giving them freebies for it, in excess of the standard seven, if necessary, though.
>Frankly, I homebrew a lot. I’ve had Destiny as a Demon and Requisitions as a Vampire. The Sorcerer can have a Domain.
Your problem is that you're trying to impose your homeberew on other people, outside of your group, people playing by the book and playing a different type of adventure.

>Hunter the vigil session ended on a cliff hanger

>As our really fuckin cancerous cell (We'd just teamed up with a vampire we spared to deal with a hedge beast, non lethally) has a three musketeers moment
>All for one and one for all deal
>After having lured a musician kidnapping hedgebeast with their vampire pals help, back home, a true fae noticed the changeling living in the sewer who'd given them the info to help deal with it
>Guy basically gets strong armed by evil mexican grandma changeling queen to sell himself back to the gentry so the rest of their community can stay safe
>We collectively decide "Fuck that and fuck abuela", especially when his human gf declares she won't leave him
>So we all charge into the hedge with sewerboy to jump the Huntsman that had just gotten created to snatch his ass, and that was where the session ended

And it might be the last we have, cause two of the players are having a baby

>>96302520
Oh, and I should mention we had previously, unknowingly, made a bargain with a honest to go true fae queen, who gave us some enchanted wine to help us fuck up a spirit she'd kept caged and fueling a small rural communities farmland that had gone rogue.

OOC we're pretty sure none of us got changeling'd at that encounter. Pretty sure.

>>96302440
Mate, you are creating one of the most powerful Sorcerer group in the works in literal character creation stage and you say there is no problem.
That's like saying, "Yes ST, I am unironically taking all my Gnosis Mutations as a Mokole in Armor. Yes I will have Agg Soak that is basically unbeatable until Methuselah Vampire/Master Mage/Legendary Werewolf levels. Because nothing says I couldn't."

>>96302581
We're creating the sorcerers they way they're meant to be created. You have some stupid homebrew and are offended that everyone doesn't follow it.
>Mokole in Armor
Once again you expose your complete lack of understanding. High Gnosis is fitting Mokole more than most other shifters, and since you can't acquire any traits later in life like Kuei and other custom monsters can loading up at chargen is more or less mandatory if you want a good Archid form. Huge Size and Armor are the most humble, common, non-flaky traits of the lot. There's absolutely nothing wrong with taking them, and not taking them at all makes you uncomfortably squishy against crazy threats ST throws at you.

Disembodiment should be something that some Mages strive for.

>>96302581
>>96302684
>taking all my Gnosis Mutations as a Mokole in Armor
DESU while two dots of Armor for five extra soak dice and dumping all you have left in Huge Size is just common sense, I like Extra Limbs, Prehensile Tail (or Tongue sometimes) and Grasping Hands more. Wings are pretty cool even though they cap your Armor and Huge Size at one.
Color Change and Extra Heads are fun and Regeneration can be occasionally useful, but unlike Limbs+Hands, Huge Size and Armor they don't fit every concept. Fur, Gills and Jacobson's organ might be mandatory in acquatic and subterranean adventures. Contact venom can be pretty good with a large stack of Huge Size, but it can be deadly to your allies.

>>96302688
I'm pretty sure the entirety of the virtual adepts get rock hard at the idea of ditching that stupid meatsack and living fully as code inside the digital web

>>96302688
>Disembodiment should be something that some Mages strive for.
says tremere who got kicked out of his own body by tzimisce and saulot fighting over it

>>96302688
>>96302719
>Akashics, Dreamspeakers, Ecstatics, Virtual Adepts all shake hands, ironically, in agreement.

>>96300537
You need to homebrew it to run oWoD in it. The upside is the mechanics don't totally suck.

But oWoD? There's no fixing those mechanics.

>>96302771
Dreamspeakers don't want to become disembodied though their goal is the coexistence of the umbra and our world which requires them to exist in both

>>96300369
Remember, drinking while driving staves off Banality.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5NqO2v_xnY

>>96302771
>>96302781
Verbenae would hate it because they're the most flesh-centric of the Traditions.

Etherites and Hermetics would also be against, because they're both very individualist human experience centric groups who are heavily into DIY self-improvement through elitism/genius. They're also both very materialistic Traditions. Hermetics would rather lichify themselves, than become spirits, meanwhile Etherites explore the digital web corporeally.

Choristers would probably on the fence here, though I bet you could convince some to disembody themselves if they could become a literal part of the One.

Euthanatoi would probably be the ones who are most against the idea, cause you remove yourself from the wheel and that's bad o algo.

>>96300444
What do you want to play? While every splat is capable of doing nearly any kind of chronicle with a willing ST, they are inherently lean into one or the other.

Hunter:
-Hunter the Reckoning: If Buffy the Vampire Slayer is your jam, this is it. You want to kill monsters of the night and have the leaway of supernatural powers. You aren't too powerful but powers you have usually pretty good, can scale very well against supernatural creatures.
-Hunters Hunted: A lesser stakes version of HTR. Most of the time you are normal humans with a trick or two in their sleeve and rely on team work and planning to take down your opponents. You aren't going to duel Dracula in it's lair like Buffy but you will most likely make the life of local small-time vampires harder.

Vampire: You want to be the one stalking in the night? This is your place. Play as a Camarilla Vampire if you want more social/political games. Sabbat for more combat and action. We have Nosferatu, we have Dracula, we have romantic vampires, we have animal vampires, we have rich and noble vampires, we have crackhead vampires. Anything you might want really.

Werewolf: You want action? You want to fight against cosmic forces of destruction? You want to be a furry? Doesn't matter, we have everything here. And if your ST allows it, multiple types of Werecreatures. Go be a Nuwisha and shit talk until your opponents lose all sense and re-enact Tom and Jerry.

>>96302684
>Can't acquire traits later in life

W20 did away with that. And I rather prefer it that way.

>>96302440
Nah fuck off. That’s the least favorable interpretation you could be giving me for this. My “problem” is that you’ve already decided everything about me because I want a concrete reason and cabal but actually it’s your atrocious reading comprehension.

When I said there’s no way five schmucks got a library like this, I’m saying. There’s no way they’re schmucks. That’s how English works. That’s why I’m demanding they have appropriate levels of Allies and Contacts. They don’t need to be socialites, but nobody gets this big without friends and accomplices and networks, unless this is five monks at the top of a mountain in Nepal or some shit. I didn’t even read the rest of your post because it’s glaringly obvious you didn’t read mine.

>>96302684
>complain about assuming
>assume things

Have you tried talking to your Storyteller? This sounds like a problem because you have some imagined idea of the Storyteller system as something closer to D&D with predetermined mechanics and monster manual baddies to fight against. But this is the
>Storyteller
system, my guy. You’re supposed to tell a story. That’s why Background is called Background. You’re supposed to flesh it out in your Backround. And the Storyteller has every right to demand you take Flaws to make your Background make more sense, or even outright veto aspects of your character if they don’t like them. The ST has creative control of the story and the world, it’s their right for taking on the responsibility of running and making your character work in the game world. Above all you are not entitled to your character sheet and the book makes this clear. You are not creating Sorcerers the way they’re meant to. You’re spitballing a Munchkin that stretches belief. This is a collaborative effort, not a competition, or a contest. Why are you assuming you need to deal with combat at all? Combat is trash in this system anyways and requires homebrew to function. In all my years I have never seen a single damn table use RAW combat. Because spending WP to abort and declaring actions and etc etc is fucking stupid.

Anyone else in favor of making a sort of noob's guide to getting into WoD for the general? We get new players all the time to the point some people think it's bait, and it inevitably turns into everyone scrambling to explain things. If one made a QRD guide explaining the different WoDs succinctly, with the intent to give a noob a basic overview before turning them over to the MEGA to draw their own conclusions, would that be something the general would benefit from having?

>>96302920
>explain WoD
>succinctly
Good joke. That said some kind of guide and perhaps recommended readings and splats would be a good idea. Similar to one of those Gundam infographics

>>96302920
Isn't that what the wiki formerly known as 1d4chan is for?

>>96302920
It would be useful. One of my players sent me this unfinished Mage the Ascension character creator, maybe something like it but finished?
https://mtas.neocities.org/WoD%20CYOA/Mage%20the%20Ascension/

>>96302932
>>96302955
I was thinking something like
>Intro which explains why this guide is even necessary as there are three WoDs and multiple splats within each, and multiple editions of the former two.
>A basic description of each of the three WoDs and the pros and cons of each.
>A couple sentence sales pitch of each splat, and what book/s to start with.

For most RPGs I'd say this wouldn't be necessary but World of Darkness is insanely balkanized so it's much harder to tell noobs what to do, especially as they often enter without much idea what they even want to do.

>>96302936
Maybe in theory but I haven't seen anyone link 1d4chan (or whatever they did to it) in a very long time.

>>96302866
Alright, so you are incapable of reading the books or the posts properly, make a bunch of retarded assumptions from few words you were able to read, make up even more retarded houserules in your head then expect other people to adhere to them, then get frothingly mad about people playing games normally, by the book without obligatorily taking a bunch of irrelevant backgrounds, some of which from the wrong games, which shows you don't know the games at all.

>>96302936
That would be good if some of descriptions on 1d4 weren't edited by some horridly biased asshole few months before it went down.

>>96302991
Blowing off your stuffy superiority is more annoyance than anger but whatever makes you feel less retarded, sure

>>96302991
>>96302344
Anon the Sorcerer version of Domain is just called Sanctuary what are you talking about it’s not homebrew, almost every other splat has some kind of “Domain” background. The only one I can think of that doesn’t is Demon.

>>96302991
Lol, sorcererfag, you are more retarded than usual

>>96303038
Sanctuary isn't Domain, Domain is territory held, Sanctuary is a warded, well-stocked workshop and bolthole. Sanctuary is somewhat close to Haven in its secondary purpose, but offering a bunch of benefits Haven lacks (its own Arcane rating, enemies needing Sanctuary rating +3 Willpower roll to approach even if they found it somehow).

Naturally it's another background you'd want to pool or have a designated owner for if possible, because one chantry fortified against intrusion and mishaps is more preferable to six meth labs spread out in the residential area.

>>96302920
aren't there a bunch of videos that are introductions? could just make a list of the best ones and recommend those

>>96303103
Potato potato, it was fairly obvious what he meant I feel like. Then again there’s not much else to do in this general except grammar nazi and rules lawyer so I get it. I don’t even remember what half the backgrounds do most of the time since tracking them all across 4 characters can be a massive headache.

>>96303103
>>96303156
Isn’t Domain only that in Dark Ages? I don’t think V20 has Haven it just has Domain.

>>96303103
>Sanctuary isn't Domain, Domain is territory held, Sanctuary is a warded, well-stocked workshop and bolthole. Sanctuary is somewhat close to Haven in its secondary purpose, but offering a bunch of benefits Haven lacks (its own Arcane rating, enemies needing Sanctuary rating +3 Willpower roll to approach even if they found it somehow).
Oddly enough it doesn't offer any benefits for it's main purpose, so I houserule that a player can opt for difficulty modifiers for certain specific, preferably related paths rather than Arcane rating.
The difficulty modifiers can be shared by sorcerers with compatible practices, and can be lost if they have a sufficiently bad botch (4th dot ritual, five or more 1s without successes on a roll). Keeping the workshop stocked requires equivalent Resources rating and occasional Finance rolls.
If players want to have a Sanctuary that is both well hidden and conductive to their craft they must double the invested dots.

>>96301675
Tell us how the game goes.

>>96296095 (OP)
Hey guys, I'm playing a V5 game, where my Malkavian has managed to get every single sect in the city to meet and beat the shit out of each other in a single building, what's the best way to take advantage of this situation if the only things he has on his person is an incendiary grenade, a stake and eight dice to use Dementation?

>>96303171
Haven in v20 is more specialized. It’s basically a sidegrade to Domain which doubles as Security. The book notes that you should be able to sleep somewhere unless you have no relevant Backgrounds. Ally, Mentor, Retainer, Domain, and also Oubliette would all be viable places to sleep at ST discretion. You could also probably swing Influence, Herd, or Status as giving you a viable haven without the Haven background.

>>96303182
Sanctuary is more narrative. It’s a place you keep all your shit safe at. One could argue that your Library size is linked to your Sanctuary size by the way it’s written, though 1-1 is probably not generous enough. On the subject of mega munchkin mega projects I would probably demand they take 5 dots in Sanctuary to fit those 25 dots of Library, unless they’re technosorcerers or something in which case a single data server vault at rating 2 or 3 could be fine. If they’re running this all on laptops they better have backups or I will maliciously cause at least one to have a hard drive failure.

>>96303156
>>96303171
Some backgrounds overlap in functionality. Like, you can have a dedicated Haven, or you can rent a penthouse or buy an apartment with Resources, you can buy Mansion? merit, you can lair in your Mentor's chantry if you are a Tremere, you can crash in your ally's mansion, you can use your Retainer's flat, you can use Fame if you are a Toreador, or Status, or something else. Likewise the benefits of the Domain can be had with Influence or Status.

There's a gentleman's agreement that storyteller wouldn't mess with specific niche backgrounds, so a Haven is generally an assurance that you wouldn't be rudely awakened by hunters or staked and abducted while you sleep.

>>96303201
Oh, I wholeheartedly agree with all that! Books need a lot of space secure from pests, moisture and fire hazards. Servers, while comparatively compact need all that and power and climate control.
I'm not a hardass but I'd hesitate allowing to keep rank 2 Library on a portable device or rank 6+ Library in anything smaller than a mansion, even if books technically allow that.

Also, something to keep in mind is that the bigger the library is, the longer it takes to dig through, especially if it isn't well organised and maintained. I'd like one of the players invest three dots in Research and dedicate a sizeable part of their time to that if the pooled Library approaches double digits, perhaps even recruit some trustworthy librarian retainers. And a big enough occult Library inevitably attracts many interested parties unless kept very well hidden.

>>96298813
>Industrialized animal farming was actually invented by the Technocracy to serve as a consistent source of quintessence. That it helps feed the sleepers is a useful side effect

Are the CYOAs worth p(l)aying?

>>96302839
>-Hunters Hunted: A lesser stakes version of HTR. Most of the time you are normal humans with a trick or two in their sleeve and rely on team work and planning to take down your opponents. You aren't going to duel Dracula in it's lair like Buffy but you will most likely make the life of local small-time vampires harder.
This one interest me.

>>96303589
Skip it, play Vigil instead.

>>96303614
Fair.

>>96303589
>>96303614
Vigil>Demon Hunter X>Inquisitor>Hunters Hunted>>>>>Reckoning

>>96303625
HTR>Inquisitor>Demon Hunter X > Vigil = Hunters Hunted >>>>>>>>>>H5

>>96303645
KeK.

Why is there such a big divide between Reckoning and Vigil?

>>96303675
One is Exalted the other isn’t

>>96303675
Because a lot of people don't vibe with the Imbued the base template in a Hunter book on top of other factions in both iterations of the setting executing the holy warrior concept better.

>>96303677
Maybe if they were half as weird as the Exalted people would talk about them outside of contrarian edition shilling.

>>96303677
Some people are >>96303695
the others want to play Buffy with schizophrenia.

>>96303675
Because they're very different games. Reckoning has you playing as a specific supernatural template, steeped in metaplot development. Vigil, while being nWoD, is essentially Hunters Hunted (the first book about Hunters) on steroids, as its own splat.

So some people see Reckoning, and don't like that it's what has taken the slot of main splat oWoD Hunter.

>>96303137
I wouldn't trust a youtuber to give a noob an impartial QRD on the many WoDs, and which to play.

>>96303677
>>96303710

>>96303719
>the others want to play Buffy with schizophrenia.
That's fine, it's the title setting up the wrong expectations that annoy me.

>>96303578
Do you mean the Choice of Games stuff?
Parliament of knives, Book of hungry names and Nightroad are pretty good.

>>96303726
What's there to discuss? Play V20 if you mainly care about the lore, play CofD 2e if you want decent rules and get the translation guides if you have some experience with RPGs in general.

>>96303740
Least dickish Yozi in history everyone.

>>96303761
>Play V20 if you mainly care about the lore
>play the edition with the most dogshit lore ever
LMAO

>>96303625
Gnie?

>>96303771
Just cannibalize the previous editions like everyone else.

always play revised no matter the splat unless it's changeling in which case 20 is better

>>96303786
While it's better than V20 or V5, Revised insists on too many rolls, and lore is generally too bland and cowardly compared to first and second editions.

Still one of the valid editions, but I understand and relate to people who play 1e Vampire, 2e Changeling, 1e or 2e Mage and Wraith and KotE without Revised update, or CofD2e analogues with translation guides.

Werewolf 1e was a rushed mess tho, wouldn't recommend.

>>96303833
>Werewolf 1e was a rushed mess tho, wouldn't recommend
Given the fact I haven't seen anyone shill for it in 20 years, I believe it.

Are there any random plot generators for either version of the game?

>>96303866
I think there was a mix and match program in 2000s for generating city's supernatural landscape and problems you can throw at your players, but at this point you can just ask an AI.

>>96303761
See >>96303771

World of Darkness is more fractured than the balkans. Having a quick, as impartial as possible guide for noobs would speed things up for everyone.

Anyway I think I will go ahead with making an infographic for noobs, probably some time in the next few days. When I get to the splats in general, I might ask you guys for 1-3 sentence QRDs and recommended reading, since I certainly don't play every splat.

>>96304028
that would be cool, thanks

>>96303754
Night Road sucks ass.

>>96303866
Literally any AI on the market right now. Most free AI can give you a campaign plot better than anything WoD has written in the last 20 years.

>>96303786
Vampire Dark ages is probably the best version of vampire as far as mechanics go. It's just way too dense to be useful to new players. As An ST, use revised/2e lore with VDA20 mechanics for peak vampire.

Which Changeling Seeming would be most appropriate for a character based on the Yuki-Onna? Or would it be better off as a hobgoblin?

>>96303891
>>96304420
True, just wanted to check before hand because that sounds like the type of stuff people would do even before A.I

>>96304706
If you wanted a focused character she would be a Snow Elemental and Winter Courtier. IIRC you could just make her a hedge ghost and it should work just fine.

>>96304706
Origin: Inanimae, Court: Winter, Dominion: Night.

>>96304706
I feel like the Elemental seeming is the obvious one. Maybe go fairest and slap on an icy kith instead if you'd prefer to focus on the pretty.

>>96305233
Not the original anon but yeah I was about to say, isn't their whole schtick seducing travelers to lay with them and die in the cold?

>>96305246
I can't actually think of a specific yuki-onna myth involving a sex-kill. She's very beautiful and sometimes nude, but typically she inspires fear. Though there are stories of people marrying and having children with them.

Usually she kills travelers by getting them to freeze to death trying to help her/a fake child, or by doing the old hospitality abuse kill Japan loves so much.

>>96305543
>or by doing the old hospitality abuse kill Japan loves so much
That's such a Japanese thing, just like the Kuchisake-onna letting you go if you say you're running late. Why are the Japanese so autistic?

>>96305720
Old europe used to be just as autistic. Zeus would kill people for violating hospitality
The only difference is that european autism fell to the industrial revolution many centuries ago, while japan only left the autistic mythology stage recently.

>>96305819
Looking back, maybe we shouldn't have abandoned the autism.

>>96305901
Yeah, while it can seem silly from an outside perspective such stories are actually very good for the health of a culture. Teach people morals when they're young through a story (so they'll pay attention and it won't come off as a lecture) and they'll subconsciously follow them even as adults when (most) won't believe in witches and devils.

We kinda threw the baby out with the bathwater there.

>>96305924
Odds are the myths and their lessons got enough people killed that those who stopped listening to their morals got an advantage. Nowadays asking a stranger to stay the night is probably going to get you shot unless the circumstances are dire like hurricane.and even then they just expect you to go to a waffle house or something first.

>>96305999
That's almost true of all morals in the short term. People who have no rules are going to have an edge over people who have rules, right up until everyone learns they have no rules and the people with rules make a rule saying that rule-less people need to Die.
It's game theory. Being a sociopath works great on round 1. If there are more than 1 round, then the sociopaths die out quickly.
All those myths and lessons survived up until the 20th century, and were only thrown out recently. Coincidentally they were thrown out around the time feminism and communism became popular in academic circles. Completely unrelated.

>>96302804
Based

>>96306870
WoD was so far ahead of its time it's unreal. I feel like 1e/2e would sell like hotcakes if it was released today.

>>96306918
This was from the 2010s. In the 90s the writers still believed in noble savage and new age shit.

I will Redeem all the sexy vampire and Garou women through the power of dick, that is my Creed.

>>96307453
What about wraiths?

>>96307453
Fully redeeming them will require getting them pregnant and making them have kids. For most vampires(as in, not thin-bloods), this require A Lot of blood. It takes 12 blood points per day to power the necromancy spell that can make them alive enough to be pregnant, 1 blood point for staying active every day, and 1 more point to feed the growing baby dhampir.
I hope you own a blood-bank anon.

Hey /wodg/ what edition do I use for Mage? First/Second, Revised, or 20th?

>>96307998
Revised mechanics with 2e lore/plot. The avatar storm and destruction of horizon are shit and you should ignore it.

>>96307998
Awakening 2e.

>>96308081
fair.
>>96308095
i hear nwod has good mechanics but i just like WOD's lore more compared to "Atlantis bro"

>>96307998
This is a clear Mind 3 effect, though Life 1 might be a useful auxillary here, alongside Time 2 and Prime 3.

>>96307453
The changeling and mage girls?

>>96307998
>House Tytalus hazings be like

>>96308141
You know for a fact both mages and changeling know the power of cock already. Especially mages, they're the "Humanity Fuck Yeah!" faction.

>>96296761
>>96296338
Seconding the gang of horror movie characters. Or just bring the off brand Scooby gang of meddling kids and their dog. Dog is either a surprisingly challenging obstacle where whoever picked Animal Ken will shine, or a toy if any of your players picks Animalism. While the Nerd should be smart, The Stoner should be surprisingly perceptive and insightful.
>dude, what if they're like, part of a global conspiracy and they have like factions that like battle each other haha wouldn't that be sick?

>>96308227
Well, maybe, but vampires are the ones that get bigger cocks after the embrace.

>>96308728
>vampires are the ones that get bigger cocks after the embrace
Maybe if you're a tzimisce. Mages with life magic are still laughing, especially the cult of ecstacy. Their fucking leader in the council is so powerful she's beat The Cock.

About to run a VtR campaign and I thought the best way for my players to remember the univesal Kindred skills, what Willpower does, and what their Disciplines do is make some TCG-size reference sheets. What do people use to make cards, if any?

>>96307922
Leave the wraiths (and spectres) to me.

If I want to be a loli what's the best splat?
Can be literally a loli or transformed into a loli.

>>96309655
Mage (Widderslainte for an evil little shit, reincarnating Akashic or Hermetic alchemist who overpowered his youth ritual or elixir) or Vampire (Tremere if smug little bastard or eldritch child, Tzimisce if mindless wight or fugly old bastard who transformed himself into a child, Nosferatu or Assmite if fugly old bastard pretending to be a child with an illusion).

>>96306038
There also the fact that hospitality had become an industry by that point so people seeking shelter from a stranger became more unusual.
To blame communism or feminism for this just seems like you are lumping the things you don't like together more than anything else.

>>96309655
>transformed into a loli.
Tremere or Tzimisce.

what is the Technocracies view on clanker rights?

>>96309954
Whatever makes the line go up.

>>96309655
Changeling the Lost for a magical loli hunted by eldritch otakus.

>>96309954
Assuming sentient capacity, for all intents and purposes, a born kamrad, a vat-grown, and one made entirely of alloys and polymers are equal and measured by their competence and loyalty.

That said, there's not much tolerance for self-determination, liberalism and all that rot. You're either in, or dumped into recycling tanks.

>>96310030
Presuming that the supervisor is feeling generous that day. There are much worse fates that that.

>>96309954
Depends on the convention. For Iteration X, no difference compared to a human. Same for NWO, but only because they barely believe in individual human rights. For the rest, probably no rights, AI are tools to be used. Maybe VE have some Cortana bullshit going on, idk.

>>96309954
I mean, you literally have uplifted animals being racists towards other uplifted animals and humans.
As long as they work for the Technocracy, they are fine.

>>96310068
VAs have a lot of sentient AI fuck buddies but I doubt that they actually do something useful with them, let alone have a general sense of 'these guys have the right to..."

>>96310076
>the pelagic think they have rights
lol

>>96310076
>dolphin workers
Imagine the rape statistics

>>96309655
You can be a DtF loli Defiler who makes people obsessively ToT for her, transforms her body to suit her needs and becomes even more beautiful in apocalyptic form.

I am sharing BSD Tribebook from Storyteller Vault. Sent it to MEGA also.

https:// gofile.io /d/Qk0Cro