Thread 96297936

The /btg/ is dead! Long live the /btg/!

The Periphery World of Deloyer Edition

Last Thread: >>96275622

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>>96297936 (OP)
Oh hey, BTG was down for a bit

OP I swear I'm not even trying to co-ordinate with you I was waiting for a new thread to post this. I would have posted this stupid joke irrespective of the Dougram Opening Post. I've started watching Dougram and gotten about 10 eps in, enjoying it.

Favorite funny aha themed paint jobs?

Assaulted by the Clan Jade Falcon Aerospace Phenotypes.

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-yM08yGCL0
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNMveg0lmVo
Thoughts on this series?

I like how much it shows off how powerful the mechs are compared to conventional vehicles and infantry, they absolutely wipe the floor with them and the only thing to put up any trouble is the other mech.

>>96298268
It's okay.

The guy who attempted to make some Rasalhague propaganda cartoons was the better animator.

>>96298101
THEY FLY NOW?!

>>96298101
Someone should stat up a Griffin with partial wing!

>>96298502
They fly now.

I missed you guys

did CranstonSnord ever get those issues of Mech magazine? i've not seen them at his mega

>>96298268
quit avatarfagging, you're almost as bad as bottom.

>>96298972
Fuck you retarded tranny. You're almost as bad as bottom.

What might be some good self-preservation/escape clauses you could use to protect against your employer throwing you into a meatgrinder? Or some loophole you can exploit examples?
>looking at you Tor Miraborg

>>96299242
I hope you had a nice day, i bought two new brushes today and shopped around for technical paint to get some nice mud effects but nothing struck my fancy.

Got good old MW4 Mercs running fellas, I’m having fun.

As far as mercenaries go, if you're not not some non-inheriting nobility you probably don't have the wealth to afford a mech in the first place (and inheriting nobility has no reason to become a merc).

However, you don't want to be infantry or part of a tank or ASF crew as a mercenary either, because they have extremely high rates of attrition, and mercenaries aren't known for their willingness to die en masse for the cause.

So what's left then for a poor mercenary? Artillery crews?

>>96299166
I know its asking a lot, but quit being a weenie, bottom.

>>96299554
Some random schmuck just "deciding" to be a mercenary doesn't have many options. Not even infantry really. You need to have a relevant background and training. Trained mechwarriors who go mercenary without their own mech will be piloting something owned by the company. Even in eras with significant numbers of dispossessed and not enough mechs to go around they'll probably be on standby for salvaged mechs or to replace dead colleagues rather than thrown into an infantry role.

>>96299690
I thought a lot of desperate pilots became anti mech infantry, in hopes of swarming a mech and then claiming it as their own

>>96299451
what kinda brushes? which technical paint? calling it technical paint makes me think GW stuff?

>>96299605
Nyeh!

Would you include a Grand Titan Vengeance in this line up? What deficiencies do you see with this force? Would you shore up deficiencies, or lean harder into what I got going on?

>>96297936 (OP)
Wait a minute, that paint scheme...

>>96299848
I feel like that might be more likely a perk leveraged to anti-mek troops than a reason for trained mechwarriors to get stomped underfoot.

Somebody's gotta drive the Urbs though.

>>96299848
That's in the state militaries mostly, for nobles whose families used to have mechs before they got got. They still inherited the position, but without a mech their place is shaky at best.

>>96299554
>and inheriting nobility has no reason to become a merc
phantom mech says hi

https://youtu.be/pbJrFALSVZ8?si=9BKwrIui01K_1zNA

Little lamb, time to wake up
From the shadows, hawks will strike
Little lamb, time to stand up
To the wolves before you feel their bite

Discover the horns on your head
And with foeman's blood paint them red

You have dug their graves, young ram

Break through the chains on the gate
Leap away into the night
Break through the chains on your heart
And unleash your will to fight

The soldier of the light, Dougram
Shepherd us all onto the path of what's right

Say goodbye
To everything that you were
Farewell
To that little lamb
The pen can't be home again
You're the Fang of the Sun
Dougram

Is it ever stated what kind of power the fusion engines in the mechs put out? Like, Kilowatts? Megawatts? Giga?

>>96300196
High hundreds of MW.

>>96300196
I'd assume it's in the terrawatts.

>>96300196
It's enough to power a small town so it has to be at least in the Megawatt/day range. It should be the big energy weapons that really give you a bead on it. They're what takes the most juice.

The math for a Small Laser is out there somewhere, and you can probably extrapolate from that

>>96300227
I mean, you can fire any energy weapon with any fusion engine. so, it doesn't tell you anything. Hell, you can load up an Atlas full of energy weapons, put the smallest engine in it, and alpha strike like it doesn't matter. The only thing I know is that one of the bigwigs said a small laser can melt an M1A2 tank in one burst. Which for such a short duration would ignite everything around it on fire and glass the ground. In fact, that is so hot that flamers shouldn't even exist. No chemical fire can burn that hot, the lasers should cause heatsinks to MELT when they hit the mech or when they fire their own.

>>96300254
Mech flamers are not chemical. They just open a pipe directly to the engine and dump plasma out the end.

>>96300363
Still doesnt change the fact that lasers SHOULD cause massive heat spikes in everything around them. Like, more than the heatshinks should be able to handle for the output they have. The mech should melt. Heatsinks or not.

>>96300381
It's future materials anon

>>96300029
Yeah, a lot of the same people worked on both Dougram and Votoms. But both were playing off the Zakus from the original Gundam show. I'm pretty sure Kunio Okawara was the main designer on all three.

>>96300381
Is your mech melting when firing a laser cool? No it isn't. Thus it does not happen. Simple as.

>>96300254
>The only thing I know is that one of the bigwigs said a small laser can melt an M1A2 tank in one burst.
And now Anon, you know why this is complete WANK!

>>96300386
>>96300394
Saying that even the weakest laser a mech could have, will melt a modern MBT in one shot, throws the scale of all your weapons into everything, is basically a nuke tier.

>>96300414
Unless something in canon says otherwise, and if it came from someone important to the IP. It might as well be canon, wank or not.

>>96300381
I think the deal is that the ablative armor carries the heat energy away from the mech's body. Of course, if you go by that logic, then the way flamers work doesn't make sense. It would actually fit better if they were chemical based, as the napalm could stick to the armor to prevent ablation.

>>96300425
Anon...

It's a setting about giant robots.

>>96298101
glad you're enjoying the show, anon. I keep telling people to watch it.

>>96300451
So?

>>96300576
It doesn't have to adhere to realism

>>96300609
And yet it tries to constantly.

>>96300425
>and if it came from someone important to the IP.
This is part of why these things are contentious. One of the original creators coming out and saying that's how it was always intended and here's some of his writings from the era to prove it? Sure, that's very notable.

Some fan turned writer years later throwing out a response off the cuff at a convention? I'd sure have to like what they said to take it seriously at all.

>>96300613
It's really not. It has a lot more pseudo-scientific babble than most other settings but it's not trying to be realistic.

>>96300630
>t. only knows battletech through the mechwarrior series

>>96300648
The books are no better

I recently finished listening to “Decision at Thunder Rift” on Audible and I need to ask:

Is this what Battletech books are normally like? Is this a typical outing for the setting? I know it’s the first novel in the setting so there’s going to be issues but I just want to be sure.

Because after thinking about it. The book kinda sucks. I was a chore to get through. I can’t tell you how many times I had to go back and re-listen to large sections of chapters several times because I just couldn’t retain anything of what happened in them because it just failed to get me to give a shit about anything going on. Not helping things is the main character: Grayson Death Carlyle, despite his cringey, edgy, name is the narrative equivalent of boiled lentils, he’s unseasoned tofu, he’s milk toast, what I’m trying to say is the character was bland as hell.

That’s a good way to say it, the book was just boring and filled bland characters.

So are there any better books in the Battletech library? Or just more of the same?

>>96300616
The original creators have nothing to do with it anymore, they sold the rights. So, the writer has more weight to their words than they do now.

>>96300669
If you can say that after reading techmanual you are simply too stupid to understand the big words they use.

>>96296075
When you 3D print you can scale them to fit very nicely.
You also get models cheaper, with crisper details and a far larger selection of mechs and their variants.

>>96300715
>Complains about the game being unrealistic
>Reverses his stance 10 seconds later

>>96300613
no the fans do

>>96300726
Yeah.
Probably because it's two different people arguing about different things.

>>96300739
Then they shouldn't have joined in a conversation that never involved them.

>>96300756
I'll involve myself in whatever conversation I please if I see one of the participants saying dumb shit.

>>96300767
No thanks, we don't need two of you saying dumb shit.

>>96300779
Go to the OF and suck off a mod if you don't want to deal with people pointing out your stupidity.

>>96300800
My brother in christ you're trying to scientifically explain plot armor.

>>96300813
Every piece of fiction has plot armor, I'm explaining to you that battletech tries quite often to be relatively grounded and realistic when it comes to technology.
>hurr durr but it has giant robots
Is the stereotypical line of the supreme midwit, repeating something he thought sounded clever on reddit or something.

>>96300678
I have mixed feelings. You've accurately criticized the writing, but also the mechanics of what Grayson can pull off with dogshit mechs are totally improbable to a degree that bugs me. On the other hand I enjoy it for being a 1980s action movie complete with 1980s hair and love stories. I do find the second and third books an improvement, but Grayson doesn't change much at least by the end of Price of Glory.

Other novels do get better. I think the Warrior trilogy is decent, especially when the Solaris plot line gets going. Justin is a good character. I also enjoyed the Camacho's Caballero's books, which definitely get into more interesting characters.

Newer books are good, I hear, but I don't think I've read anything newer than the mid nineties.

>>96300830
And I'm explaining to you that it's not. It has justifications for its technologies but so do a lot of other settings. Justifications =/= Realism.

>>96300856
You've done a lot of asserting that simply indicates you haven't done a lot of reading.

>>96300864
Quite the opposite, you're falling prey to the same midwit arguments of someone who only has a passing knowledge of the setting (or technology for that matter) but hasn't actually explored the technologies of the setting in depth.

>>96300884
>battletech is so unrealistic dude gyroscopes are literally impossible sci fi tech

>>96300894
Gyroscopes are perfectly reasonable and possible. The way they use them in the setting is the silly part.

>>96300849
> but also the mechanics of what Grayson can pull off with dogshit mechs are totally improbable to a degree that bugs me.
Like beating both a Marauder and Crusader at once while piloting a… it was a stolen Shadowhawk right?

>>96300913
The technology's realistic then.

>>96300946
The technology, yes. The setting, no.

>>96300965
Well that's a different argument and there's far less people that will argue the political and cultural outcomes in general in the battletech universe are realistic.
On the other hand there's a lot of people that would argue the political and cultural outcomes of real life are not realistic.

>>96300989
I never said anything about culture or politics. We're still talking about technology.

>>96300423
And I will forever until Battletech is realistic enough to satisfy known physics. Science fiction doesn't get to just make things up. That's what the SCIENCE part is for. If you want to make up magical unrealistic shit you can go play D&D or masturbate over Star Wars along with the other retards who aren't smart enough for a STEM degree.

>>96300989
I don't care what IRL is like. Fiction needs to be more realistic than that.

>>96301001
Yep, Battletech is a physicists dream and an engineer's nightmare. The science of the setting was thought of delicately and importantly...and the engineering is the equivalent of a child smashing legos together.

>>96301026
The build rules for mechs kind of kills the setting and makes you wonder why they build new designs at all.

>>96300994
We already agreed that the technology is realistic.
Application of technology is cultural and/or political.

>>96301044
Because it's a setting about giant robots.

>>96301065
Not an excuse.

>>96301092
It is an excuse actually. A setting can be technologically realistic but ridiculous in every other way.

>>96301044
>makes you wonder why they build new designs at all
Mostly because of international copyright law and blueprints being wholly lost in an apocalyptic interstellar war that lasted hundreds of years. But it made more sense before the timeline was advanced beyond the FCCW.

>>96301065
But the old robots can do the same thing as the new ones. The game doesn't treat old any differently from new. A laser made one thousand years ago is the same as one made yesterday. The chassis of a mech is purely for show as well, since you can shove anything you want into it. No model is constrained to certain weapons, armor, or internals. It's why the mechwarrior games have a bit of an edge over the tabletop. If you have a certain model of a mech, the weapon types are fixed per location, depending on the model itself.

>>96301106
That's just how things work in the setting.

>>96301131
Not an excuse.

>>96301141
It's a game about selling tabletop robot miniatures, and people want their miniatures to be able to play against other miniatures in the game within reason. Having mechs that become outdated every 100 years or so runs counter to that.

>>96301131
I love the setting on the whole, but it clearly shows its age and suffers because it's afraid to truly advance its tech.

>>96301106
>the weapon types are fixed per location
They only do this to slightly delay fully optimized laser boating. It's the only thing holding players back.

>>96301161
Can't advance the tech because it's tied to a tabletop wargame and that would be powercreep(it was only ok when the clans did it that one time).

>>96301177
>Clans show up and shake the stagnation off the IS
>IP stagnates not long after and everything is a sidegrade with no real advancement
Is funny.

>>96301161
Honestly I don't really mind, Battletech HAS to stick to the same technological basis that defines the battlefield, so the only form of technological advancement you can really see is...stronger lasers, stronger armor, stronger mechs, etc.

It's literally just higher numbers on a sheet, nothing more. What's the point of tech advancement if it's just going to be that?

>>96301254
They try to sell new tech and mechs as being better...when they are the same as the old ones. MASC and turbo chargers should be built-in systems for all mechs at this point and shouldnt cost weight. TSM should be standard. Stuff like that.

That they spent a very long time constantly introducing new things that weren't laser+ only to shrug and then explain why it wasn't mass adopted was a decision. Hope you like a hundred different boondoggle systems no one used, versus the clan ER laser blaser giga hurricane tornado system that allows the player to actually shine one of those chinese pen lasers directly in the opponents eye.

>>96301141
What does this even mean? An excuse for what?
It's the IP holder's universe they can do whatever the fuck they want with it. They don't have to make the science make sense if they don't want it to or care enough to have it stand up to scrutiny.
Don't like it? Don't play in it, buy the rights to it and make your desired changes, or make your own setting.
What's YOUR excuse?

Unrelated but if we were going for pure realism this would be the ideal type of mech-killing weapon.
>High-angle rotating turret with an onboard radar for tracking acrobatic maneuvers from mechs (in case they use jump jets)
>Low caliber high-rate of fire cannon for piercing the light armor of a mech many times a second in its weak point
>Astronomically cheaper and more compact compared to a mech

The Solaris Tag Team Brawl has been a big successs

>>96301430
Your mechs look FAT! What have you been feeding them!?

>>96301430
The Stormcrow B decapitated the Battle Tripod with its Ultra 20, then fired its full laser array at the Legend Killer and crit its engine. Legend Killer alpha struck back, killing the Stormcrow and then shutting down thanks to the engine crit.

>>96301450
Then the Jade Hawk quite literally tore a Hussar to pieces with its TSM claws. The Wraith that watched this promptly jumped away.

>>96301411
Lmao.
The ideal weapon would be a bunch of twenty buck drones that ram 50 bucks worth of HE or a shape charge right into an engine block or reactor or the cock pit.

>>96301551
Drones wouldn't work because of the ECM

Gentlemen, I love the Bane.
I don't care that it gets headshot every time I take it, I love this machine.

>>96301001
U don't play battletech & don't own any mechs take your alleged stem degree and shove it up your ass lmfao

>>96301411
>in its weak point
You can roll the cluster chart like everyone else.

>>96301092
It's not an excuse if it's the entire point of the setting. Battletech exists for the mechs, everything else is secondary to giant robots fighting.

>>96301599
Hence why I said 'if we were being realistic'

>>96301612
If you're being realistic you're not reliably hitting weakspots.

>>96301551
>>96301612
I dunno why but a lot of people take on realism is that realistic things just don't miss. It's always "heh what if I shot that perfectly in the weakpoint?" well yeah you'd probably do damage. Roll for it then.

>>96301450
>Legend Killer killed anything
How? IIRC it's godawful vanilla Rifleman

>>96301177
I feel powercreep would be a non-issue in truly advancing BT tech because unlike other games where you need to buy entire new lines of models we just have to print another piece of paper off with the better tech on it, giving the old paper to a merc or periphery unit.

>>96301686
We were representing it with some variant that moved 5/8 and had particle cannons and lasers. It was 3152, so that was a reenactor

>>96301001
Just to clarify, do you expect to be able to change Battletech to be realistic by posting on 4chan /btg/, a board with only ~25 posters that CGL pays no attention to? If so, how do you expect to accomplish this?

>>96301761
he also posts a matching thread on /k/

>>96301668
>If you're being realistic you're not reliably hitting weakspots.
Eh, on a mech on you probably are, that's a pretty fucking big target.

>>96301687
People want to use their awesome 8Q without it being rendered completely irrelevant by mechs that are five steps above clantech.

>>96301672
Well Battletech's mechanics are...weird. See, Battlemechs arbitrarily get an extra cushioning against TAC's so in a weird way conventional vehicles are much more vulnerable to pinpoint accurate shots when really it'd be the opposite.

>>96301825
>he literally goes to /k/ to ask for military advice on fighting mechs so he can post it here
>but they don't know anything about the settings so all the advice is unsuited
This is an embarrassing scenario.

>>96300849
Well, newer books that aren't Hour of the Wolf, anyway.

>>96301846
factually, disastrously bad

>>96301836
They're more resistant to TACs because a tac going through the side torso is just going through the side torso instead of every single component on a compact vehicle like a tank.

>>96300849
>but Grayson doesn't change much at least by the end of Price of Glory.
One of my ideas I want to write is a set of short stories about a mechwarrior who goes through what Grayson went through, losing a parent in combat, but unlike Grayson where we never see him really emotionally process it, the whole story would be our main character going through the five stages of grief. Denial would be during the fight itself, when the hero insists on "rescuing" the parent despite a very clear KIA life sign reading, anger would be an unwise and unnecessary raid for vengeance on the enemy, etc.

Could be neat.

>>96301686
It's heavily implied that Legend Killer is actually two, possibly three mechs and only one of them is a stock introtech Rifleman. The other(s) may be heavier and/or full of lostech, and the arenas may or may not be in on it.

>>96301862
Right but that’s pure gamefication, a more accurate system would have all shots land on either the head or torso of the mech with some then becoming TAC’s as usual, and misses instead have a chance of hitting the limbs (also vulnerable to TAC’s). As it stands the game treats being a bigger easier to hit target as a good thing by distributing the the TAC’s to unimportant stuff like limbs.

For the record, I don’t actually think the game should do this, obviously the game is designed with the mechs having a certain degree of plot armor since it's a mech game.

>>96301834
And they can use a better, more advanced version of a 8Q since the only thing that would stop them is 1 (one) (won) measly piece of paper.

>>96301875
MWO short stories all got decanonized

>>96301875
Legends dismisses the idea that Noton could bribe every arena owner while simultaneously fooling the billions of viewers of every big match and has Legend Killer as a largely stock model with a few hangar queen-type mods that wouldn't be detectable on arena sensors.

>>96301918
>>96301923
Legend Killer not being stock comes from multiple TROs and Solaris sourcebooks. The arenas are probably in on it.

>>96301875
Didn't Justin rode the LK once for some reason yet didn't remark anything out of ordinary about the mech?

>>96301923
>>96301875
Maybe some things should just remain an unexplained mystery and you have to just accept them as part of the game universe even if they don't make logical sense. Shit happening that logically shouldn't but it happens anyway is the MOST realistic part of the fluff.

>>96301939
Probably the stock copy.

>>96301936
Those are all written as rumours, not fact. To be fair, while the Legends entry correctly points out that the "secret supermech but no one can tell because all sensors everywhere in all arenas are rigged and everyone goes blind when Noton fights" theory is obviously retarded, it also says that the layout reported in the entry itself can't be verified because the report is second-hand and the mech is supposedly lost in the Jihad.

They have a clear aversion to settling it once and for all, which is fine by me.

>>96301896
Shots would not land reliably only on the torso of a target moving that quickly and erratically.

>>96301995
Most mechs don't move much more erratically than a regular convee, they can't side-step after all.

>>96302011
That's not how it works, mechwarrior isn't how the mechs move.

>>96302017
Correct...but they still can't side-step. That's always been the case. It's the case in the fucking game rules.

>>96302021
They've always been able to sidestep, they can't sidestep at combat speed.

>>96302031
Okay, so you have to stop before you can slowly shift to the side a bit. Either way not exactly dodging shots mid-run.

>>96302021
Game rules are the lowest canon. Mechs can sidestep.

>>96302048
Show me a high canon that depicts mechs sidestepping

>>96302037
>Okay, so you have to stop before you can slowly shift to the side a bit
No, they have the articulation to juke. They're not strafing at a high enough speed to cross a 30 meter space in a reasonable time frame, they change direction of travel quickly.
>Either way not exactly dodging shots mid-run
They are.

>>96302054
Show me a single example of a mech actively dodging shots.

>>96302051
>>96302056
All mechs dodge, guard, and move evasively even without moving hexes, that's why you don't suffer -4 for immobility.

>>96302061
Not what we're talking about, show canon that depicts mechs besides quads side stepping

>>96302066
It's in a book.

>>96302079
A book doesn't count. Show video.

>>96302079
Which book, which page, quote it.

>>96302082
It's in a video.
>>96302093
"the adventures of the mech what could sidestep but actually that was normal, all mechs can sidestep" by billy slippers page forty.

>>96302100
Video isn't canon.

Try again.

>>96302021
>>96302031
>>96302048
Correct me if I'm wrong, mechanically mech that doesn't move a turn is harder to hit than a an immobile CV or shit down mech right? Doesn't that imply that even while not moving to another hex, the pilot is still anticipating and trying to juke from and side step the enemy firing at them?
I'd say that it's not that they can't sidestep at all, it's just that they just can't sidestep 30 feet to the right or left. Otherwise they're still dodging in their own hex, or at least trying to.

>>96302116
They are constantly moving around and dodging to the side, yes. Where a combat vehicle can sort of awkwardly lurch forward and backward like an autistic war thunder player(which isn't actually practical anyway so they don't do it).

>>96302116
hex is actually 30 meters, you might be getting mixed up with the fact that the average mech is 30 feet tall

>>96302137
Not according to Duane Loose. They're 30 meters. See the new centennial TRO.

>>96302146
Did they bring back the 30 meter doomlocust?

>>96302137
Sorry I meant meters, not feet.

@96298240
sfw board idiot

>>96302272
What do you expect from some degenerate tranny scum

>>96302156
It never left. Mechs were always supposed to be 30 meters tall. That's why they've been depicted as that big in the vidya for years.

>>96302272
Awwww...it didn't even get archived.

>>96302302
I'm seeing between 7-18 meters tall which actually somewhat correlates to mechs being 2 levels tall @ 6m / level. 6m iirc is a cunt hair shy of 20 ft. To put things in perspective they range from bungalow roof height to big ass warehouse roof height lore wise so if anything their size is overrepresented in video games. I recall mechassault they were larger than the high-rise buildings often seen in game.

>>96302413
canonically 90% of mechs are in the 8.5-12M height range, with a few creeping up to 13 or so. Only superheavies are 18m, which corresponds with them being three levels high rules-wise

>>96302450
was this released in the last year?
Guess those fuckers learned absolutely nothing from 3039

>>96302475
I think that's a couple years old, though I don't know of the atlas ever being given a height before that.

>>96302489
NTA, but I think one of the earlier novels mentions it. Heir to the dragon maybe?

>>96301704
I hate all of these and want none of them. but am probably going to have to buy two fucking boxes to get enough ACES decks and cards

>>96302413
>>96302446
Anon is right though. The centennial TRO 3025 does actually say 30 meters. I'll get a pic of the page later today, if nobody else provides one.

>>96302021
Bitch a pilot with skill 1 or 2 can make a mech dance fucking BALLET.

>>96302696
For average height? Seems like an error for units of measurement since 30' ends up being the rough average of 7-17 meters

>>96302702
Even a blood asp?

>>96302713
even a dire woof.

>>96302696
>>96302706
it's not there was ever any proofreading involved in this TRo. like, it's a deristrative repower situation

Was there ever a rule to the effect of "all rear hits to a conventional vehicle check for critical hits" ?

I feel like I'm going insane.

>>96302720
>deristrative repower situation

>>96302450
Personally, I'm on Team 18 Meters. Assault mechs should be legal everywhere.

>>96302720
There wasn't any proofreading involved in your post, was there?

>>96302782
the first printing of TRO 3058 had absolutely no fucking proofreading whatsoever, hence "destructive firepower" ending up as "deristrative repower " in one of the entries (Alicorn, IIRC) and it became a bit of a meme in certain circles

>>96302717
>Dance off, sibko

>>96302696

Here. Allow me. I don't think it means what you think it means, but the new 3025 TRO entry *is* factually Duane Loose relaying an anecdote where Jordan Weisman tells him that Mechs are 30 meters tall.

>>96303065
He's probably misremembering it from 30 feet since average mech height was 10 meters.

>>96303065
Who is jordan weissman and why does what he thinks matter to battletech? I've never heard of him

>>96303084
NTA but he's one one of FASA's founders, anon. He was one of the guys who made Battletech. So yeah, it's fair to say he was pretty fucking important to the franchise kek.

>both settings have mercenaries as the core of their setting because standing armies are too expensive
>both settings have fusion powered vehicles
>both settings have combined arms
>both settings use laser weapons as a predominant form of weaponry
>the primary vehicles in both are noted for their redundancy and ability to continue acting and moving even with damage
>both settings are essentially historical war stories with a futuristic coat of paint
>both settings have the same reason why aircraft aren’t dominating the battlefield
Honestly Hammer’s Slammer could easily be an alt-universe of Battletech where people just acted slightly more rationally.

>>96303410
It's pretty obvious that Hammer's Slammers was a big early influence, along with the CoDominium

>>96303082
Yeah. There's no way it's 30 meters. That's like one Gundam standing on another's shoulders.

Would you rather have a Gun, or Locust 3M for fighting other mechs?

>>96301273
>MASC and turbo chargers should be built-in systems for all mechs at this point and shouldnt cost weight. TSM should be standard. Stuff like that.
Then mechs become homogeneous.

>>96303728
So? They can all carry the same weapons, armor, and engine.

>>96303728
/btg is basically Exhibit A for why 99.9% of fans with game design ideas should never be game designers.

>>96303743
Can, but don't. Mechs don't exist as a consequence of what is possible the tech manual; the tech manual exists as a manner to explain mechs and mech variants as they are.

>>96303804
*possible in the tech manual

>>96303728
yes, and?

EVERYONE should be working off of clantech as BASE tech by 3145. light engines, light autocannons, plasma rifles etc should be IS innovations still, but EVERYONE should be rocking clan XLFE, IS XLFE should be fucking dead. D E D dead.

>>96303804
The tech manual is stupid. Every mech that has the same tonnage can do the same thing as another mech of the same tonnage. The only difference is whether it has actual arms or not. The armor acts the same, the weapons act the same. They are already homogeneous in every way that matters. New mechs do the same thing as old ones with zero difference in performance.

>>96303901
Yes, and?

>>96303901
And yet they don't anon. In 3145 there remains chassis and variant diversity-- and thank god that is so.

>>96304022
I can take your diverse mechs and make them all do the same thing. There is nothing truly unique about them.

>>96304044
But you're not going to at my table, because we're playing canon variants.

>>96302695
Not really, Battletech is not a deck building card game.

>>96304072
you really are just talking out of your asshole, aren't you?

the entire point of fucking ACES is a bunch of decks of cards that automate units by role and skill levels. so if you have a missile boat, you shuffle the missile boat deck for it, draw a card, and it will have that unit's move and shoot etc for the turn. then you resolve everything as normal.

not to mention AS has AS cards for EVERYTHING, including BSP units.

the entire point of ACES is to add even more decks to automate masses of units so you and your friends can go up against an "AI" force together.

it is OFFLINE, technology-less megamek.

WHICH IS FUCKING AWESOME. YOU ASSHOLE.

>>96304235
Snide comments about alpha strike aside, why wouldn't you just print them off?

>>96304235
You've got to be basically subsophont if you need a deck of cards to play a game vs yourself, which is supported by your demonstrated belief that alpha strike is at all relevant to battletech.

It surprises me that no one hasn't made a Shawn Michaels paint scheme for the Hunchback
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHvw3H8FueU

>>96302489
There was this poster from the Kickstarter.

Last weekend we tried our usual Instant Action game, a Capture and Control of roughly 5500 or so BV between Mercs and Comstar. I am saddened to report that our faith in Blessed Blake failed with the goddamn Hunchback one-shotting the Mercury with a lucky shot and proceeding to headshot the Lancelot.
Scenario feels fine to play, it's neat and brutal. We also tried the Mercs Asset rules with a Vedette and a Manticore each. They don't feel bad, but really barebones.
Also a Greater Feline Abomination decided that the stupid humans were giving too much attention to plastic pieces and proceeded to sleep nearby, occasionally waking up, requesting petting and then going to sleep again.
Such a carefree existence.

>>96305754
hunchback gonna hunch.

>>96304235
don't you have a cabinet to drop or something?

>>96302021
Optional rules? Derp.

>>96306104
>Optional rules?
Optional rules would also allow you to aim at specific parts of the mech.

>>96306116
that's also a thing. yes.

>Loren Coleman said they're releasing the Abominations forcepack for Gothic
Oh boy

>>96302720
FASA go meters and feet mixed up over and over again

>>96304921
I think there was a height chart for one either one of the MechCommander games or Mechwarrior 3.

>>96306586
The infamous and wrong 3039.

>>96306595
Incomplete list of heights from other sources.

>>96306603
And there should be a clicktech poster like this >>96304921
floating out there from like 2004. I think it was from Fire For Effect?

>>96306768
The best way is to scale by volume instead of height, with minor corrections for the occasional really weird shape.

>>96306841
Units in Battletech Tons/Mini Cubic Centimeter

Why do people get upset over the mechs being big?

>>96304235
>it is OFFLINE, technology-less megamek.
No its not. It's alpha strike. The Btech flavor isnt out yet.

>>96303728
Good. Introtech becomes the rule set. Autocannons are just an abstract of lbx and ultra. Lasers are an abstract of REEEEE/ER/Pulse etc. Everyone has the same shit. Start the tech arms race again.

>>96307277
Autism.

>>96304307
HBK is Dimes

>>96307277
Part of it is consistency and respect for old lore. Part of it is minis and scale creep, which is an ancient battle in many wargames. Even regular figures have crept from 25mm up into the 30's now. Part of it is general physics autism, where generally the smaller a mech is, the more "realistic" it is. And Battlemechs being smaller than Gundams is also a campaign ribbon for the franchise. To ignore that old battle honor is sacrilege among the graybeards.Part of it, is making them bigger also fucks interunit scaling with the tank minis,ASF and everything else. Actually, the plastic ASF are way overscaled lately because they use about the same volume ratio as the mech minis when they should be denser.

Hope that helps.

>>96307472
>This man wants the old school 3rd League Jump. Take a time machine back to 2011 and kill Ben Rome. We're in the shit now until the 3250's.

>>96307573
>respect for old lore.
The old lore is shit and the sooner we're rid of it, the better. Mechs are cool, and they're cooler when they're big. That's why the video games scaled them up to something that actually looks good, and since only the video games actually matter (100,000s of players vs the 2000 or so tabletop artists who play classic), CGL should just give up and use video game scale for their Mechs.

>>96307618
>The old lore is shit and the sooner we're rid of it

Calling for one of the last unrebooted scifi franchises to be destroyed is just sickening, even as such obvious bait.

>>96307618
The video game players dont matter at all to CGL. They don't buy minis or sourcebooks.

>>96307642
>Calling for one of the last unrebooted scifi franchises
It was woke garbage in the 80s and it's woke garbage now. The sooner we're rid of the old lore that's inaccessible, holds back the writers, isn't realistic, and concentrates too much on woke topics like women Mechwarriors being a thing, the better off the game will be. You've had 40 years of your shitty lore. Step aside and let Battletech have some actually good writing that's about how cool giant robots are without worrying about placating leftists by allowing women and trannies to drive them.

>>96307664
trying too hard. pretend I tracked down the "this is a ppc" bait image.

>>96307642
>Calling for one of the last unrebooted scifi franchises
Renegade Legion
Crimson Skies
Rifts
Stargate
Babylon 5
Farscape

I started this thinking I could say bullshit, but you might be on to something.

>>96307698
Isn't a Babylon 5 reboot in the works? They did the animated movie, but I could swear there was a bigger project with recasting going.

Also Stargate has been retconned so heavily with the latest series, it's hanging on by its fingernails.

>>96307698
>Renegade Legion
Being rebooted by FASA, yes really
>Crimson Skies
Dead, KIA by Microsoft
>Rifts
Shit
>Stargate
Dead, KIA by MGM
>Babylon 5
Dead, JMS tried to bring it back and it's dead
>Farscape
Dead, and was shit to start with

>>96307719
>Dead, and was shit to start with
That's fighting words, but I'm a sucker for the Jim Henson puppetry.

>>96307719
No one said anything about being alive. The metric was rebooted.

>>96307733
Not him but alive and not rebooted does really narrow the field down even more.

>>96307733
NTA, but the really clear implication in >>96307642 was that we are discussing sci fi franchises that are still alive and relevant, like Battletech, which remain pure and unrebooted.

>>96307737
I mean does that make 40k count? I wrote them off because it shits out editions regularly and there are 3 very different "rule sets" in it. Its certainly not dead and hasnt technically been rebooted.

>>96307753
40k isn't sci-fi.

>>96307757
Neither is Battletech.

>>96307753
Could be. I never dug too deep into them. In fact, I don't even remember them having novels until Fedcom Civil War stuff was on the shelves.

Also, haven't they changed the space marine armors and whole rules and models tons of times?

If the lore was never officially reset, I guess it counts? Which is actually a point in their favor.

>>96307764
Battletech is definitely sci-fi, c'mon. Aside from the FTL the physics of the setting work pretty damn close to reality. The engineering is absolutely atrocious and everybody is retarded but the physics still works fine.

>>96307803
No sir. Battletech is a Military Thriller set in 3025.

>>96307806
I'd say it's more sci-fi game of thrones.

Haha...gonna put a jump jet on the butt of my mech. Then, whenever I jump, it will look like my mech is farting to fly! HAHA!

>>96307818
Legit, the Panther.

>Not putting mismatched numbers of jets in your legs so you corkscrew when you launch
>Wardog.hpg

>>96307813
>game of thrones
Depends on the novel, but fair enough.

>>96307813
>>96307828

>Implying Game of Thrones isn't high fantasy Battletech

>>96307753
40k kinda rebooted when it transitioned from Rogue Trader to Warhammer 40,000.
I guess by the same metric Battledroids rebooted into Battletech.

>>96307841
Cool, what was this ad originally in?

>>96307847
Advanced Battledroids is literally the exact same rules and we use most of the exact same fluff. The tech intro in Battledroids is still one of the best descriptions of how a fusion engine works and why it's retarded to keep mashing the heat override. That was a name retcon, not a reboot.

Rogue Trader was an RPG and it's still around, right? Wouldn't that be more like an Alpha Strike/Clicktech kind of situation?

"is it scifi?" debates are annoying because anything that predicted things wrongly tends to get cast out as well, which is literally everything that's somewhat old or ambitious. All you're left with is nerds and their alt-history space race timelines. People genuinely see being fictional as enough to disqualify you from being science fiction.

>>96307863
Battletechnology IIRC, one of the 1987 issues. I actually have the pins they're talking about for the cons. Made the same year I was born.

>>96307870
Plus people get physics and engineering mixed up a lot. Battlemechs being a terrible vehicle doesn't mean that they're not possible with the technology of the setting nor that they're unrealistic science/physics wise.

>>96307813
Dragons are Lostech. Change my mind.

>>96307870
>because anything that predicted things wrongly tends to get cast out as well
As well it should. Seldon has shown us the prediction is science, not mysticism.

>>96307893
Show me the Blakist cyber dragon shadow division then.

>>96307893
Honestly considering how much Battletech leans into the 'animalistic mechs' thing a dragon mech would totally fit in the universe.

>>96307870
Classic scifi always takes some premise and runs it to its logical conclusion. Oh hey, there's cases of increasing censorship with public support. What if we cranked that up to eleven?

Battletech's premise is "What if giant robots are the ultimate war machines and ancient dying star empires are trying to retake their glory age?" That's it.

>>96307907
Why do you think they blew up Lopez? Checkmate, Atheists.

>>96307924
You arn't suggesting that Battletech is merely pulp fiction are you?

>>96307908
I want that dragon to fuck me.

>>96307714
>Also Stargate has been retconned so heavily with the latest series, it's hanging on by its fingernails.
I'm not gonna lie I just know the movie and SG1. I've seen some Atlantis episodes, but never got into it.

>>96307933
Are you implying that science fiction can't be pulp fun? It's about taking some concept or premise and running with it as if it's true in the future. You may like the term future fiction or something better, but it follows the pattern.

>>96307943
normaalit eivät sallittuja

>>96307950
Movie, SG1, Atlantis, all worth it. Universe was a disappointment and the web series was an affront against God.

>>96307951
>Are you implying that science fiction can't be pulp fun?
Mostly yes. Then again I did read ringworld and it was very pulpy. I am conflicted.

i want to try my hand on self-printed decals and i absolutly want to use picrel because its fucking hilarious. what mech springs to mind?

>>96308029
Hauptman

Attempting to narrow the definition of science fiction to the point you are excluding stories about space ships and robots shooting lasers at each other in the far future is silly.

>>96307959
This is objectively correct

>>96305754
Cat sleeping beside the battlefield spotted!

>>96308063
I remember when his level of autism was just called hard scifi vs soft scifi. I also remember where Battletech novels were in real bookstore sections, and what those sections were called.

>>96308147
I went to the book section of a 2nd & Charles recently. They had to move the store to a new location nearby and I guess they decided to resort all their books. Now they're all sorted by author. Before, it was by title. So if you wanted a Star Wars book, you went to "S" and they were all there. Well I wanted to see what Battletech/Mechwarrior books they might have, but they were no longer grouped together. Sorting by author is fucking cancer.

>>96308171
>Sorting by author is fucking cancer.
I agree with the big series, but it's nice for the small series where it groups together a bunch of stuff by one dude. Like I want Weiss and Hickman altogether. Half-Price Books by me does it best where they have the small stuff by author and the big franchise series by alphabet. They also separate the softbacks from the hardbacks and have a very nice clearance section. Got an original American edition Animal Farm there for a buck about five years ago but my ex stole it.

>>96307719
>>Farscape
>Dead, and was shit to start with

>>96307719
>Dead, and was shit to start with
Eat shit

>>96308140
That cat is...mad.

>>96308140
Switch the LRM-5 to the right torso..THe cat knows something

>Looking at the transcript:

>Leviathans is fulfilling in the US, hoping to be completed by end of month. International is "moving right now". Goal is to be in retail ASAP after fulfillment is complete
>TRO 3025 Commemorative Edition releases physically September 9th, digital a week or two before
>Hungry Like the Wolf did so well they're doing another romance novel
>Emplacements and Third Star League Battle Group should be early to mid September
>Abominations are getting a single forcepack due to popularity

>>96308326
>No CGL booth at PAX West

For a mercs who jus started, how reliably, readily and easily can you rent (I guess? or carshare?) (military) DropShips and JumpShips to get around for buisiness?

>>96308348
Varies wildly depending on era and the kind of story the author wants to tell.

Sometimes it's ruinously expensive to catch a ride on a grain hauler (stupid), other times the employer always arranges transport (realistic) or there is a convenient space captain that swears a life debt to protagonist man and helps him on all his adventures (pulpy)

>>96308348
Depends on the location. If you're out in the deep periphery where a jumpship shows up twice a year, you are fucked. Be on a major space lane and that math gets way more favorable.

Also, they'll all be merchant. Attached military ships are only usually enough to move 1/3 of state units. You're dealing with regular joes for transport 99% of the time.

Watch the MW2 Mercs intro where the DS pilot goes "I'm not getting paid enough to die."

>>96308326
Is this about gothic because gothic sounds hella gay if I wanted 40kek I'd play that garbage

>>96308029
>>96308054
King Crab you fools. Not only is it a pimp ride, but the cockpit is so spacious there's absolutely room for a separate bedroom with a couple of daughters chained to the bed.

Honorable mention, of course, goes to the Battlemaster, which is CANONICALLY used to ferry whores around. And since all women are whores, someone's daughter would qualify.

>>96308267
>>96308228
Muppets are entertainment for children and mental defectives. Which one are you admitting to being, given that you must be 18+ to post here?

>>96308408
Oh, shit! He's thrown down the gauntlet against the Dark Crystal, now! Is such shit taste even possible?

>>96308418
If you remember the dark crystal then your too old to post here boomer

>>96308452
>Remember something that had a prequel posted all over netflix just a couple years ago.
HMMMMMMMMMM....

>>96308408
>Muppets are entertainment for children and mental defectives
>mental defectives

>>96308495
Why is this meme a screencap from Scrubs redrawn as the tintin characters?

>>96308506
It's memes all the way down.

stingers are fun :)

>>96306541
That was of course not canon.

>>96308348
Dropships can be contracted or rented full time pretty easily. They can even be bought, they're just very expensive. If you're really lucky and the previous owners very unlucky they can be captured or salvaged. Jumpships are something you book passage on 99% of the time. It's expensive to ride the established route that the jumpship was already going to go and more expensive to charter them to go out of their way to where you want to go. But it's an available service either way. If you prove yourself reliable you may be able to contract one on a more consistent basis, but owning one is a pipe dream for all but the largest and most prestigious of units.

What's the point of light mechs? They seem way too squishy to be useful.

>>96308669
A lance of lights can reliably run down and kill damaged survivors from a wrecked heavy lance. They can do recon and objectives. And they can punch down against non-mech units.

>>96308669
just don't get hit, fag

>>96308669
They can clear out conventional units pretty easily.

>>96308669
Spotting, objectives, back stabbing, anti infantry work, etc. Depends on the mech, really.

>>96308690
You wildly underestimate conventional units

>>96308736
You overestimate them. Tanks like getting shot in the back even less than mechs, and they don't deal wit high TMMs any better than mechs do. Besides, a tank that's spinning its turret around trying to tag a Spider isn't shooting at something more valuable.

>>96308506
Because the crudely rendered btg themed version didn't make it onto the booru I guess.

>>96308736
Basically any isolated tank is completely helpless against a light mech as the light mech either stands right on top of it and stomps it to death or just runs out of range of the guns.

>>96308744
So when you say light mechs can clear tanks easily, what you mean is, they can engage in normal combat where they try to flank get lucky crits and hope they don't get vaporized by their target or their target's friends.

How fucking awful are these mechs and/or pilots, not being able to destroy the Locust even in 2 vs. 1?

>>96308838
The one on the left is quite literally the scene where the locust gets destroyed.

>>96308736
You overestimate conventionals, they're extremely vulnerable to being one-shotted even by light mechs

>>96308669
They are affordable and fast, which means in any strategic or campaign play they can be running rings around slower formations, completing sorties and objectives; scouting enemy positions, picking off exposed assets and disrupting supply lines.

It may help to think of it like rock-paper-scissors even if the strategy is not nearly cut and dry. Light and fast scout lances are hard to keep up with and can achieve mission objectives, disrupt supply lines, scout positions and fortifications and outrun heavy responders. Medium pursuit and striker lances are generally ideal for handling these lances with enough speed to ambush or intercept, but then also enough firepower and armor to beat them soundly when they are caught. More straightforward battle and assault lances can handily outfight the medium weight formations in a defensive battle or by forcing confrontation in the assault of a sensitive or critical location; but don't have the mobility to confront light lances outside of purely defensive operations or by exceedingly clever ambush.

Basically: You shouldn't think of lights only by considering their place in a lance-on-lance deathmatch, while some lights can be exceptional flankers. Often skirmishes by lights may be light-on-light violence.

>>96308756
That can be fixed.

>>96308838
The one on the right is a staged fight in a battlemech circus.

>>96308838
>>96309375
Better question is where are the weapons for the one on the right

>>96309503
No weapons, it's a rabbit to be hunted.

>>96309521
That actually sounds like it could be fun.

>>96308669
fast mech plus close range weapons = really good for the BV, just run behind the enemy and blow them up. See, phantom H, E, R

i wish CBT games didn't take so long, playinjg anything more than a 4v4 isn't very practical

megamek is so much faster.

On the Free Worlds League, do Dukes who rule systems represent said systems in the FWL Parliament or is that done by Governors?

I ask because after re-reading The Price of Glory (where the Duke of Irian early into the Fourth Succession War, Garth, swayed the 5th and 15th Marik Militia, along with Julian Langsdorf's 12th White Sabers into going after the Gray Death Legion), would the Duke of Irian represent Irian in the FWL Parliament or would that be Irian's Governor?

>>96308838
Why is the one on the left sponsored by Firefox?

>>96309908
Fox sniffing it's own farts is a good representation of that unit and what it stands for.

>>96309908
Fox Patrol. They're a merc unit with stories written by Bryan Young. Their first mech was a Kit Fox, so they have a fox theme going.

>>96308838
Locust is the real protagonist of Battletech

>>96309803
The representative is a different person. I think each planet is allowed to select their representatives however they want, so the rep could be appointed by the governor or the noble, be elected, be a hereditary position separate from the planet's ruler, etc.

>>96310010

Then in Irian's case, how can that be since Irian Technologies are the de facto government there? Not only that, shouldn't both Irian itself and IrTech have suffered in the wake of Garth being one of the men found responsible (somewhat) for the Tiantan Massacre?

>>96309803
Each province selects its own members of parliament however they choose to do that. It's unlikely that any provincial ruler would choose themselves as a representative as then they'd have to actually go be at parliament for at least two years straight. There is an advisory body made up of nobles, but they don't get to vote and aren't paid so they don't usually show up to actually do their "job".

>>96309989
no. they are written by a gay child raping paedo furry faggot who MAGICALLY has 'children' that are totally his, and aren't trafficked ones he bought, that are all magically tranny and gay and therefore if you ciriticise his child abuse and child rape ways, you are ACSHULLY a bigotistaphobe

>>96310024
Irian had a Duke up until Garth was stripped of the title. How much influence he had over IrTech, if any, is unrelated to the fact that as an independent planet, Irian counts as a province and is entitled to at least one representative based on their tax contributions to the league overall. Sometimes the CEO of IrTech serves as the MP, but their actual selection process is not stated other than that all of their MPs have historically had close ties to one particular city on Irian. The company probably just threw him under the bus. They used lawfare to prevent anyone else from actually inheriting the title of Duke of Irian for at least 40ish years after he fucked it up, so they obviously don't care about actually having one of those.

>>96310047
>>96310154

On that note, how did that work for FWL territory that was conquered by her neighbors, then taken back? I mean, what happens to the representatives from such systems like say, Tintavel prior to 2412?

does anyone got a line on .SVGs for battletech designs to laser engrave stuff?

specific SLDF units and Concordat would be neat.

What's your mech's theme song?

https://youtu.be/PBAl9cchQac

>>96310797
https://youtu.be/sPwCttDbS5c

>interesting SL era mech
>goes completely extinct in the early succession wars
>has a primitive version you'll never use
>finally reintroduced in a later era you don't play in with a completely different load out.
Name that mech.

What's a good mech that has consistently disappointed you on the tabletop?
What's a bad/mediocre mech that has been surprisingly effective?

>>96311247
>goes completely extinct in the early succession wars
Except in-universe there is absolutely no way this statement can be definitive. Further, TRO's are in-universe documents.
Therefore in addition to Brian Caches which are an ever-present variable of unknown quantity, there will also be examples of "extinct" technology scattered about the IS an Periphery on planets that are not well recorded or in the hands of individuals and mercenaries.
If you want a Thunder Hawk in 3025, you can have it.

>>96310696
No but I did fairly recently use an automated online service to turn a 2D vector image into a 3D STL for printing, you can likely do the same with lineart and such.

>>96311429
NTA, but if we agree to a 3025 game and you show up day of with a Thunder Hawk, I'm significantly less likely to play with you again.

>>96311508
Then you need to make it clear that you wish to play 3025 circa 1990, not just 3025.
Then you also need to provide a list of mechs that fit into that restriction because only people who were actually there can know which mechs those are and aren't, if you look at the available sources NOWHERE IS THERE A LIST OF WHICH MECHS ARE RETCONS.
So given that original manufacture date is all anyone who started playing the game in the past 20 years has to go on, you're a dick if you pettily refuse to play someone who has looked through mechs, noted their date of manufacture and chosen only mechs that existed prior to or during the agreed era of play.

>>96311551
You're either new to battletech or just a cunt.

>>96311568
No, I'm quite familiar and have noted that no such list of mechs exists, all the lists out there are in-universe and split up by factions as well, so if you go to the MUL and click the category Extinct for Late Succ Wars you will find the list full of entries for Wasp, Atlas, Orion, etc... mechs which is the opposite of helpful beause all three of those chassis are absolutely available at that time, meaning the only items on that list that you can tell at a glance are totally not a fit are the clan mechs like the Stag.
MUL does not have a set of lists that are sorted from the IRL perspective of IRL introduction date.
So, unless you have been playing for over 20 years there is no cut and clear way to know, and even many people who have been playing that long likely don't have encyclopaedic perfect recollection of every retconned mech.

>>96308216
I picked up a copy of The Red Badge of Courage for $2. Realized that I've never actually read it and figured I should read a few more of the classics instead of just getting by on what I've heard about them. 3 Musketeers is after that. Had no idea the book is so long.

>>96311613
You are missing the point in your attempt to chase your white whale. If you actually played battletech you'd know that 3025 means introtech unless otherwise specified. If your mech has gauss rifles and an XL engine, it's not suitable for 3025 unless you agree beforehand to allow lostech.

>>96311682
3025 means 3025, introtech means introtech.
Notice how the arrangement of letters and numbers between the two terms is wholly different. If they were the same there wouldn't be two terms.

>>96311613
Do you not read the TRO entry for a mech before you use it? You can go on Sarna to find exactly what book and page to look at for each variant and make a judgement call from that information. Sounds like you're just too lazy to put in that tiny bit of effort.

>>96311551
Hi. You must be new to battletech, so I'm going to give you some advice. While introduction date is an important element of selecting mechs for a scenario, it should not be taken as the be-all and end-all of availability. In the same sense that in a WWII historical it would be unusual and irregular for a Tiger I tank to be in Finnish service even if it would be technically possible chronologically, a number of mechs are present in the timeline only due to specific circumstances.

The Thunder Hawk in particular lists its availability in the Introtech (Late Succ Wars - Renaissance) period as being exclusive to Comstar; likely present in their caches of lostech. Only during the Clan Invasion does availability open back up.

If the agreed scenario is not specifically involving attacking Comstar assets or some other particularly unusual scenario, the Thunder Hawk would be an inappropriate selection. You should certainly seek prior approval from your opponent before using such a mech in a pick-up game.

Hope this helps.

>>96311700
>The Thunder Hawk in particular lists its availability in the Introtech
Oh look, now we have an anon arguing that it IS allowed in 3025, but only if you paint it white!
Fuck off, gamers can go full mydudes and choose ANYTHING that is available in the era.

>>96311697
TRO's are in-universe documents, the game supplements representing them are incredibly optional as they are just fluff pieces.
If the information in them were pertinent to the game then it would be a part of a rulebook and/or there would be a single comprehensive TRO book.

>>96311720
It's almost like there is definite room for confusion and there is a need for a comprehensive list of real-world introduction dates for all mechs.

>>96311720
Of course you can; you're just going to have to run it by your opponent first so they can prepare appropriately. We are after all looking to have a fun game and putting 2500 BV of Gauss Rifles on the table isn't going to be very interesting if your opponent is running a balanced force of late-war retrofits and bugmechs.

>>96311682
>lostech.
the more one reads about battletech lore the more it becomes apparent that none of the socalled "lost" technology is actually lost, a great example being the energy shields of the steiner arena which are maintained throughout the succ wars by techs who do understand them.
So lots of technology is "lost" but only if you ignore the exceptions that are literally everywhere in the game, particularly in Brian Caches.

>>96311720
This does not include, for example, having a Death Commandos unit filled with Hunchback C's in 3025

>>96311771
But it does include having a full set of hunchbacks customized with weaponry and equipment that exists in that era.

>>96311796
If your opponent approves the use of custom variants yes. Otherwise you should stick to canon configurations for the time period.

>>96311806
"canon" is full of customs, in fact you cannot open a battletech novel of any era without finding at least a handful of characters are piloting mechs which have undergone customization, such as Archer Christifori and his Penetrator running with Clan LPL's, which IIRC was the first fluff introduction of a Penetrator mech.

>>96311700
Crazy to list all this out like everyone doesn't play as mercenaries specifically so they can reasonably use a little of anything from the era, painted in whatever color schemes they feel like.

>>96311883
All my mechs are painted as house forces.

>>96311975
Funny, I never found that playing with mechs you think look cool is WAACfagging.

stop.

post mechs.

>>96312105
not until you post a list of mechs sorted by IRL introduction

>>96311825
You seem to be intentionally obtuse and arguing in bad faith.

>>96311825
TRO 3055 should be the first time the Penetrator was seen. Besides, hero customs are better examples of campaign play than custom mech design; Archer Christifori ran a stock Penetrator before picking up Clantech during Operation Bulldog

>>96312281
no, when a mech is introduced to the game and the first canon example of that mechs is WAAC customized, you can't very well argue against the use of customs being non-canon configurations.

>>96312311
>3055
Penetrator is 3053

>>96312311
>hero customs
The vast majority of fluff mechs are customs, meaning there is nothing "hero" about it, rather customs are the norm and anyone who insists on factory variants is a secondary ignorant of Battletech.

>>96312328
And TRO 3055 is the first TRO it's in.

>>96312344
Actually no, most of the mechs in stories are written with the assumption they're a factory standard variant, customization is usually specifically noted in the writing since it's unusual.

>>96312344
And only a tranny tourist would argue pedantics about what to call a custom

>>96312368
>customization is usually specifically noted in the writing since it's unusual.
and the majority of novel mechs have such, meaning it is the norm and factory is the exception.
Particularly in 3025 where mechs are heirlooms that have been extensively repaired with whatever is handy for centuries, 3025 fluff practically forbids stock variants.

Amen.

>>96312393
>citation needed

>>96312403
read the fucking books.

>>96312421
Tell me which ones to read then

>>96312393
I'm afraid that's also wrong.

>>96312421
The book I read says that most mechs are stock and they keep making new stock mechs and refurbishing existing stock mechs with new stock parts in the same configuration to avoid complications associated with customization. Even some of the mechs that nobody makes still have new stock parts for repairs.

>>96312433
hypocritical, atlas variants exist in number.

>>96312456
Variants have the engineering pre-done for them by large teams with full access to all relevant blueprints and technical work documents, and the resources needed to commission derivative fully engineered parts designed for compatibility. Unlike random technicians in a mechbay.

>>96312456
Which would indicate examples of those variants are exceedingly rare during the time and individual customization is even more uncommon.
Similar to the tiger having recovery vehicle and assault gun variants but those variants not making up a significant portion of examples of the vehicle.

Realistically, how busted would an Atlas with this loadout be in tabletop?

What would be the downsides to compact gyro/cockpit?

>>96312503
Rather it indicates a writer who is unfamiliar with established canon.

>>96312506
That's just a king crab but even more vulnerable to long range skirmishers.

>>96312497
I don't care what else you have to say, the existence of variants proves the statement of it being nearly perfect is arbitrary bullshit which casts the whole of the snippet into unreliability as the writer is demonstrably ignorant, this is just some wank trying to hype the atlas, which is a crap mech benefitting from forced reputation.

>>96312516
Not at all. The established canon is that mechs are reliant on a steady supply of stock parts to replace damaged ones, and that customization is rare and dangerous.

>>96312556
The established canon of OG Battletech is that in 3025 such things are nearly unattainable and the overwhelmingly vast majority of mechs are held together by duct-tape and bubblegum.

>>96312570
Held together in their original configuration by factory standard duct-tape and bubblegum, yes.

>>96311825
You should ask your opponent's approval to use any variant or design that is not featured in the MUL specifically under your faction's listing for the given time period. If you are unsure or confused as to whether or not a mech would be appropriate for play in a specific case, you should communicate with your opponent prior to game-time to prevent unpleasant surprises.

I am not sure why you are still confused on this matter. You don't need my approval for any mechs on your list as long as your opponent is cool with what you're doing. An opponent similarly does not need to justify on any grounds why they won't play with you and your list. It is in your best interest to choose mechs that fit the agreed scenario in nominally standard formations.

>>96312578
revisionist drivel.

>>96312545
Read the snippet again. The militaries think it's perfect so they don't commission many variants. The reason nobody fucks with it, in the next sentence after a period which indicates it's a different idea, is that modifications tend to fail because they have to make too many concessions to keep it running. The thing doesn't take modifications well.
Variants are specifically engineered by large manufacturing corporations to overcome the problems that small time shops and mechbay technicians run into. They don't have to make concessions with variants because they have the time and resources to find ways around them.

>>96312582
>featured in the MUL
the MUL is a third party project, the MUL is not rules.
Rather YOU should ask your opponent if enforcing force limits via a third party document is okay.

>>96312592
>statement
>contradiction
>exception
>exception

>>96312605
>generals with no engineering experience think it's perfect and don't want to change it
>technicians with some engineering experience and few resources can't successfully change it because it requires too many compromises to do so
>corporations with lots of experience and resources can change it in standardized ways without compromising
>these are contradictory statements

>>96312596
I'm not your opponent. It's not my business how you play as long as your opponent is satisfied. You are welcome to cross reference any official publication if you have some aversion to the MUL; you should be aware that it is an officially licensed publication that cites the specific products units are featured in.

If you have any further question I'd be happy to help, but largely I think we've covered the matter comprehensively.

>>96312640
Incorrect, the game rules clearly lay out the fact that it is easy to customize with set ranges of costs and time to do so in varying conditions (field, mechbay, full factory) while actual gameplay demonstrates that many changes to it result in improvement for various use cases including general purpose use.

>>96312655
>licensed
Definitively requiring that it be third party.

>>96312586
If mechs were so easily customized and repaired with non-standard parts they would not be so rare, they would not be suffering from factory destruction in the first place.
Mechs being customized is the exception and it is noted when it is anything resembling common.
The mercury being notable and omnimechs being such a big deal is mostly because of how difficult it is to repair and modify standard battlemechs. Standard battlemechs being easy to modify or repair would render the breakthrough that is omnimech technology pointless.

>>96312672
CGL is also licensed.

>>96312660
The game rules accompany almost every modification with a genuine danger that you damage the mech you're trying to modify.

>>96312660
If you want to go by game rules, then mechs are actually significantly harder to customize than fluff would indicate by default. Some stuff that fluff guys did in a dropship requires a trip to the original factory in the rules. The Atlas may be easier to customize, but almost everything else is harder.

>>96312685
And also non-canon.
Your point? 3025 being frankenmech a field refit heavy is FASA.

>>96312672
If you're not going to use the MUL that doesn't matter. You're welcome to supply official record sheets and/or physical or digital TROs or source books and as long as there's no discrepancies or mistakes, most opponents will be happy to play with you.

>>96312596
The MUL is canon you fucking autistic faggot

>>96313183
That contradicts neither of the prior statements.
"canon" is also a fluid term nowadays, which canon? original FASA, or licensee under third party owner #3 canon? If the second, before or after some twitter post announcing retraction of canon status for certain items?

You know what strikes me about customs is that almost none of the canon ones seem to get passed down or salvaged by anyone. They're almost all made for the person currently piloting them. I suspect a lot of the desperation customs get un-customized during the next refurbishment cycle. Or just destroyed under the weight of their own rickety construction.

>>96313183
>inb4 demands of proof followed by saying the proof magically isn't good enough

>>96313241
The only canon that matters is what is canon at the moment you're having the discussion. Stop trying to split hairs. What CGL says is canon, is canon, and fuck your own face if you think that what FASA wrote still matters if CGL changed it.

>>96313254
The only canon that matters is what was made by the creator.

>>96313183
No it's not. The MUL is from a 3rd party licencee and it will never be canon no matter what proof you """post""". Nothing published since 1992 is canon, since that's when the original writers left Battletech in the hands of that Ippolito woman.

>>96313267
Actually not even battledroids was canon. The only canon is this spiralbound notebook full of handwritten notes from Jordan Weisman I stole from his garage in 1983. Everything else is retcon garbage, including everything FASA ever published, and you're a newfag if you think otherwise.

>>96312506
This MWO? is there no seperate rear torso?

>>96313314
Rear torso armor is the number under the big one like 113 or 159. Most people just trim the armor down to single digits though, usually if something gets behind you, you’re gonna die or get crippled anyway. 90% of the time you should be dying from head-on damage so it makes the most sense to put only the barest sliver of armor in the rear.

>>96313374
The 100 damage alpha strikes so many mechs are carrying makes even 100 ton IS assaults feel like paper sometimes.

>>96313383
Well, yeah. MWO is a game made by, and intended for, mental defectives. Those retards have to see things blow up every few seconds or they lose interest and take their whale money with them. So naturally the online game won't reflect how the game actually works. It's your own fault for wading into that cesspool to begin with.

>>96313459
They tried to make mechs durable by doubling armor values and giving mechs quirks that give them even more armor and pilot skills that add even more armor but it's utterly futile as long as weapons are easy to aim and have perfect accuracy.

>>96313383
It’s not so much that the armor is too low as it is that players can aim too well. You’ll note that the armor values are actually massively inflated from their tabletop values, and lots of weapons actually do LESS damage (Clan ER Mediums only do 6 for instance) in MWO with an extra effort to curb boating via ghost heat. This is because even a dude with Parkinson’s would be shooting with accuracy like a gunnery 0 pilot on tabletop. If you could called shot the CT every time without fail on the table like you practically can in the game, then yeah, killing assaults on the table would feel like punching through a wet paper bag there too.

>>96313515
Well if there were actual in depth shooting mechanics and you could win fights with skill rather than just paying money for better shit to point and click your way to victory they wouldn't make as much money

>>96313582
There's close to zero pay to win mechanics in MWO, most of the best mechs you can easily get without paying any real money.
The effectiveness of weapons being purely skill based and relying on your twitch aiming is part of why a lot of weapons are as off meta as they are.

>>96313515
Can't really fix it without making weapons inherently inaccurate, and then you'd get a flood of people pissed they can't PPC poptart anymore.

>>96313682
Weapon spread from movement, "recoil" patterns, simulated ballistics, whatever it takes to make gunnery actually difficult. Sounds like maybe the average range is too low & you just end up blasting eachother point blank or close range more often than not

>>96313799
>Sounds like maybe the average range is too low & you just end up blasting eachother point blank or close range more often than not
Table top ranges combined with up-scaling of a lot of the mechs means it's almost impossible to actually miss.

>>96313799
Mechs themselves are easy to hit in MWO unless it's a very small light mech moving at maximum speed or a mech at a distance equivalent to over 33 TT hexes.
Basically anything under 1000 meters and within your maximum range is a free hit unless he can dip back into cover before your projectiles reach him. It's why poptarting is so powerful with mechs that can do it.

>>96313847
Sounds autistic and gay

The Cameroon has never gotten any stats at all?

>>96314032
>>96314032
>>96314032
Now git and stay git.

>>96313987
Nope, the Stefaan killed it on its crib

>>96313940
Yeah, it's pretty much just peeking in one form or another.
Heavy customization plays a large part in people just modifying their mechs to fit the meta, it would be a lot more interesting if people were given random stock mechs.

>>96311659
See if you can find the long version of Robinhood, not the chopped-down little tales. That's a fun read.

>>96311659
>3 Musketeers is after that.
One of the best books in existence.
Classics are famous for a reason.