Thread 96307620

>censorship of publishers
>censorship of players
>shitty DTRPG garbage (PbtA, 5e total conversions, etc)
>actual AI slop
How can we save our hobby from these blights? What can be done to restore the old community and bring a Second Golden Age of TTRPGs?

>>96307620 (OP)
Go play a game you like and stop whining like such a little bitch, just because other people play games you don't like.

>>96307620 (OP)
The hobby has been partitioned since Tunnels & Trolls, the key is to get (You)r playgroup to filter out the influence of the bad partitions and reach out to others that have done the same. Then it doesn't matter what the mass-market slop is like, because you can discuss with like-minded high-investment hobbyists anyways.

>>96307620 (OP)
Mekton came out in 19 fucking 84, you stupid piece of shit.

>>96307663
The nu-ttrpg crowd is arguably MORE high investment than grognards, they base their whole identity around their favorite brands (like zoomers and younger millennials in general).

>>96307776
They consume to project an identity substitute, they do not perform work in hobby tasks to enhance their play experience.

>>96307620 (OP)
It's simple but people will still seethe at this

>>96307620 (OP)
>How can we save our hobby from these blights?

By doing the hobby

>>96307620 (OP)
Let it fall and go back underground. We got to purge the companies and groups that cause TTRPGs to be this bad. Once the tourists and the corpos leave we can rebuild and gatekeep. Part of the problem was letting people who clearly didn't play or care about the games in charge of said groups and changing it to theater kid shit over being a Fucking Adventure Game. Role Playing is fine and all, but like beast races. They bring in undeserables and sometimes better to leave out to avoid problems. It's like banning weed, it's not like you care about weed and all. It's just to keep stoners away from said area. I mean look at CO it legalized it and got turned into CA jr as the stoners all flooded Denver and the major cities.

>>96307843
The part about this meme that's funny is you dipshits who don't realize that you're posting an image of Dragonlance. The most mary sue, bullshit, den-mom version of D&D that ever was, and no actual grogs ever touched.

>>96308043
>It's simple but people will still seethe at this

>>96308049
I'm aware you're a poser, anon. It's alright.

>>96307620 (OP)
>how can we save our hobby

The Hobby doesn't need saving, anon. It's autocorrecting. Undesirables are going to self-segregate into this niche space and then you're free, as you've always been actually, to enjoy yourself and the company of your friends and fellow players outside the WoTCsphere where there is no limit to the amount of creative people and better games.

>>96308059
>must... defend... freakshit...

>>96308043
Isn't the "den-mothering" of it "just" rail-roading?

>>96308119
Where is the "freakshit" in the lower image?

>>96307620 (OP)
>tourist posting about games they dont play.
fuck off nogames

>>96308119
What's wrong with "freakshit"?

>>96308290
you're pretending to be an elf wrong. you must listen to me, the highest authority on pretending to be an elf.

>>96307663
>>96307777
Agreed.

>>96308043
Dragonlance was cool, I really loved the classic feeling it had, it's my jam, but then again I only read the novels, I never played in the setting itself.

>>96307620 (OP)
Play a different RPG? Theres tons that haven't been touched since they released in whatever era you want. Just play one of those.

>>96307643
OP and people like him are too stupid to play any tabletop game.
>>96307843
>t. a nogames who is simple in the head.

>>96307643
FPBP

>>96308356
This is a solid 60-70% of /tg/ most days.

>>96307732
NTA but what the fuck is wrong with Mekton?
I'm genuinely curious, please enlighten me.

>>96307620 (OP)
>our hobby
D&D was always their business.

>>96308043
>no actual grogs ever touched
What a small minded and totally wrong opinion. Grogs did, some still do. The funny part is that you don't get the thrust of the meme because of your small mindedness which can't see past a little trigger, instead the particular image becomes rage bait for you.

>>96308923
Why do you type like a discord mod

>>96308923
you dropped this, king

>>96307620 (OP)
That sucks, guess I'll just play something else

>>96308954
Thanks bro, but that's not mine, mine is black.

>>96308936
Dunno, maybe they saw my style and copied me, I'm a bit too stupid to know how to log on to discord let alone be a discord, that's why I hang around here with you fa/tg/uys, keep it on the same level.

>>96308923
Good to know grogs genuinely do have shit taste and love railroaded trash where you don't even get to make your own character. Any pretense that they're gaming "for real" while all the zoomers are theater kids goes out the window when they start hyping up that trash.

>>96309081
Nobody was talking about your boyfriend anon

>>96309554
Online grognards should be studied in a lab.

>>96308923
The Dragonlance DM screen allowed a 1st level fighter to begin w/ -2 AC because of how busted an unplaytested it was. Dragonlance was shunned for a lot more reasons than just Kender.

>>96308043
Plenty of grogs love the Dragonlance art even if the modules aren't great and pushed a trend they disliked. (i've seen some of them defend the early Tracky Hickman DL stuff as decent and only hate the later stuff by other authors)
You frequently see Parkinson, Elmore et al show up on favorite D&D artists lists on grog-only forums despite like 60% of their art being for Dragonlance.

>>96310300
We really didn't. Plenty of housewives and other folks who never played the game read the novels. And no one denies that the art is amazing. But that the game is some paragon of traditional D&D? Absolute nonsense by people who never played it.

>>96310318
>But that the game is some paragon of traditional D&D?
Oh yeah definitely not. The early modules are at best useable.
I was only talking about the art itself.

>>96310375
grogs when a shitty artbook was released 5 years ago: Unplayable garbage, a pox on the genre, time to bitch about it constantly.
grogs when a shitty artbook was released 41 years ago: A classic that we must remember fondly because the pretty pictures looked good.

>>96310375
Somehow I don't think the point of the meme in >>96307843 is "Elmore's art was better than amateaur artists on the internet." Somehow, I get the impression that the people posting it don't realize that it represents the very worst of D&D that people who actually played during that era actively shunned.

>>96310410
>that it represents the very worst of D&D
TSR-era maybe, WotC is significantly worse in most respects.

>>96307620 (OP)

All you have to do is vote with your wallet and smoother the Hasbro/WotC and support the games we do want.

The fall of DnD would also scare away the investor/parasite class. Imagine if DnD 5.5 was enormously popular and BlackRock decided it wanted a piece of the action so it started looking at the biggest rival companies. The owners of Chaosium, Free League etc seem like cool guys but do you think they'd be able to turn down a life of wealth and luxury?

>>96310422
Anon I'm referring to the meme in >>96307843. Which is art for TSR-era Dragonlance. Which the meme claims is "tradition." Which is the very worst of TSR-era D&D and was actively shunned by D&D players. Correct: I was not talking about something from a decade later than you only just now brought up into the conversation for the very first time.

I love how people trying to defend Dragonlance never play it or even read it. Total Kender dead.

>>96310436
>There's a black person on the cover!!!
There it is. The actual problem you guys have. I was wondering how long it'd take you to be honest about it.

>>96310459
lol you're cute,and evidently lost.

>>96310493
I mean, that's what you circled and picked out to emphasize.

>>96310493
Really? Because I'm pretty sure >>>/pol/ is that way. That you people invaded the rest of 4chan after 2017 doesn't make it yours.

>>96310504
I've been on this website since 2005 and it's hilarious to me that you're still assblasted about 2016.

>>96310502
Nah it's cute that you think anyone's circling about anything like it's reddit or something, fag shit larping as european fantasy has never and will never work.

>>96310547
>it's hilarious to me that you're still assblasted about 2016.
It's true that the vast majority of users simply left around 2018 when you stormfront folks appeared. I do think that's a shame--you're right.

>>96310547
>Nah it's cute that you think anyone's circling about anything like it's reddit or something, fag shit larping as european fantasy has never and will never work.
It's literally highlighted in red, bro. A shockingly high number of racists turns out to be blind.

>>96310584
You're so precious haha

>>96310602
You're right, you obviously know that the issue is there's a black person on the cover and are just lying.

>>96310609
It's hilarious to me that you'd think anyone would even bother "circling" or "lying" about having negro/transfaggot/dei fatigue on 4chan, this isn't whatever hugbox you're coming from.
None of that belong in european centric fantasy settings. I'd tell you yo make your own soulless californian fantasy setting but no one would care, which is why they're trying to dorce that shit into existing settings.

>>96310822
>None of that belong in european centric fantasy settings
what the fuck? Fantasy Africa is a trope of settings going back to goddamn Greyhawk

>>96310844
A part of the fantasy worlds never ever showed because naked people living at the stone age and having bones in their noses and ears would be offensive to faggots so instead they just race swap white people.

Soulless globalist faggots erasing actual real identities.

>>96311060
In fairness there's quite a few cool and decently advanced African kingdoms you can take inspiration from. Ethiopia, the Zulus, Makuria, etc. I agree with the basic sentiment though, it sucks that we don't have cool Fantasy Africa and instead just have black people in Fantasy Europe.

>>96311102
Aksum, Nubia, Egypt, Kush. And if you haven't seen fantasy versions of them then I suggest reading some fantasy settings.

>>96311102
The zulus weren't advanced at all anon, they were a very violent warring stone age nomadic tribe.
Benin would be a better example imo.

>>96310822
>It's hilarious to me that you'd think anyone would even bother "circling" or "lying" about having negro/transfaggot/dei fatigue on 4chan, this isn't whatever hugbox you're coming from.
The word "circle" means highlight. The original image has giant red boxes around text. I'm sure you're going to try to say "UMMM, that's not a CIRCLE, that's a RECTANGLE" but you genuinely seem to be mentally retarded and/or ESL.

>>96310822
>>96310844
>>96311060
>>96311102
The problem in my humble opinion isn't the existence of black people in a setting, or even the existence of trans people (go look up hijra in India for an example). The problem is what I like to call "corporate woke". You can tell when that stuff is added to look safe and approachable and "modern", versus when it's some weirdo nerd's idea of fantasy worldbuilding. Your setting should feel different than the 21st century.
Really I just hate sanded-down corporate settings designed to be as inoffensive and bland as possible. Give me exotic kingdoms, weird peoples, vast diversity of architecture from place to place, and make it feel like it was your passion project.
I hate settings designed by committee so fucking much man.

>>96311161
The assegai and iklwa both had iron tips. The iron age came to Sub-Saharan Africa in the 8th century BCE at the latest.

>>96310493
Yeah, you lost all your brain cells on the way to this thread.

>>96311271
Anon, that was in the 19th century.

>>96311326
Yes, the Zulu did not exist as a meaningful group prior to the 19th century; it was only under Shaka Zulu that they became more than a clan of a few hundred Nguni-speaking people. They also practiced agriculture at that time, and were not nomadic.

>>96311331
You couldn't be more wrong.

>>96311248
Hold the phone, are you trying to tell me that corporations are influencing modern D&D? This is a fucking outrage. Thank god that never happened in "traditional" rpgs. I'm so glad that the satanic panic, for instance, didn't require D&D to rename devils and demons tinar'ri and batezu, because those greedy corporate hacks never began infiltrating our hobby until the 2010s.

I don't know a single person moving to One D&D and I work in the industry. I am fairly certain this shit is going to be DOA

>>96311367
SRD 5.2 literally doesn't have OGL, and the OGL forbids you from using it with other license agreements such as the CC, so... either use 5.1 or lose access to all OGL content from prior to 2024.

>>96311356
You're right, it's not the corporations who are the problem, it's the minorities. I hate it when people try to find an easier, more consensual target instead of addressing the actual issue.

We're not mad at some vague concept of "corporations" we just don't want gay faggot shit defacing the settings we loved we lame ass shit.

>>96311379
with* lame as shit

>>96311341
Great counterargument, anon.

https://ehrafworldcultures.yale.edu/cultures/fx20/summary
>Before the mid-nineteenth century, the Zulu depended entirely upon horticulture and raising livestock. Their staple crop was maize, while cattle, goats and fowls were their most cherished livestock.

https://www.historynet.com/shaka-zulu-africas-napoleon/?f
>Shaka started small, with an army of just 350 men, but his warriors were strong, skilled and extremely aggressive.

>>96311379
>it's not the corporations who are the problem, it's the minorities.
There we go. At least you're honest with yourself. You'll find that you're not welcome in our hobby, anon. You never were.

>>96311394
I don't need a counter argument, we're talking middle ages settings and you're bringing up the fact that the zulu had metal tips on their spears in the 19th century after having lived around and traded with white people for 4 centuries as a counter argument to the fact that they were primitive people. It's genuinely funny.

>>96311411
Are you new on this website or something?

>>96311531
Nope. You johnny-come-lately alt-right schmucks have never been welcome. You're just loud.

>>96311524
We were talking about the Zulu first, see >>96311161. The Zulu, as I just got done explaining to you, did not exist in the Middle Ages.

If you want to discuss something else, like Africa in the Middle Ages, that's fine. We can move on to the fact that iron metallurgy existed in Africa many, many centuries before Europeans showed up: https://www.jstor.org/stable/43135497

But before we continue, I would like you to admit that you were wrong: the Zulus were not stone age nomads. Only once you do so will I continue with this conversation.

>>96311531
Could you tell me what rule 3.b is here?

https://www.4chan.org/rules

>>96311559
Racism is believing one race is superior to another, not wanting africans and purple haired faggots in medieval european inspired settings is just normal.
Sorry you were brainwashed redditor but your powerless here.

>>96311594
That’s not what racism means, retard.

>>96311594
>squirming to try not to get banned for his obvious racism because he's such a newfag he doesn't even know the basic rules

>>96311607
>>96311596
You must spend a lot of time being mad while browsing this website lmao, I don't know why you do this to yourselves.

>>96311616
You spend your whole life mad that minorities exist, so you'd know better than me what it's like to be mad all the time.

>>96311616
>muh black people
>muh european fantasy
Tough shit. White people shouldn’t have enslaved Africans and brought them into their countries and culture then complain when they want to be represented.
Think of this as a natural consequence of your peoples’ actions.

>>96311634
Shoulda told the Africans not to enslave rival tribesmen and sell them off to the Arabs, then get it into their heads that the Yuros would want them too

Oh wait

>>96311634
Africans enslaved africans, white people just bought some. And brought none of them to their countries (Europe).
Who the fuck would complain about africans being represented in an american-like settings lol

By the way, the arabs bought black slaves for more than a thousand years and neutered them all, killing 95% of the males in the process.

>>96311665
>>96311676
None of this contradicts what I said. Africans selling other Africans isn’t a gotcha for chattel slavery.
They’re here now, get used to it.

>>96311634
>>96311676
btw, it's the French and the English who forcibly abolished slavery in Africa during colonization (mostly late 19th, early 20th century) thereby forcing Africans to stop enslaving their neighbors.

>>96311705
>They're here now
Literally no one's talking about america.

>>96311705
You're the one who seems mad they are in Burgerland to begin with thanks to their ancestors being sold out by their own people, though

>>96311724
No we’re talking about a fantasy land mass marketed to a diverse population.

>>96311724
>Literally no one's talking about america.
We're talking about D&D, which is set in Wisconsin. Sorry, faggot. Go back to Europe.

>>96311725
How did you interpret that? I’m not the one seething over black people existing.

>>96311705
>They’re here now, get used to it.
Oh boy, you’re not going to like the next few decades

>>96311739
Dunno, you're the one who seems obsessed with talking about black people and slavery irl instead of how One D&D looks like a coporate shell of a game, /pol/ boi

>>96311594
>getting upset about people other than straight white men being in tabletop games is just retardation.
fixed that for you.

>>96311764
D&D has been a corporate shell game for 11 years, anon.

>>96311769
Oh definitely, I'm just here to rag on the DNDrones and the /pol/fags who're angry with each other instead of WoTC, man

>>96307620 (OP)
By not playing those bad things and instead playing good things?

>>96311767
Fyi they fit perfectly in dystopian settings like cyberpunk settings.

>>96311781
You fit perfectly in a gay porn setting.

>>96311594
>european inspired settings
>"Let's add oriental monks who do martial arts!"
You'll need a time machine to fix that one

>>96311781
I'm making a fantasy setting loosely based on WW1, the people of Mega-HRE are black, and you can't stop me.

>>96307776
This is not a thing unique to the younger generations, by any means. But it's easy to think that trends are unique to the generations that came after it became easier for the world to know itself. Among those who lived through the consumerism boom of the mid-1900s, you'll find a lot of people who believe in brand loyalty. Whether that's the farmers being dedicated to one brand of equipment, or the people with money having dedicated watch brands, a lot of people want to be seen as having made good choices with what they buy, and that they have good things. So they all take brands personally.