Thread 96352669

Why do people love space marines so much?

They're cool

>>96352669 (OP)
>>96352774
They are also the ones with the most lore in the franchise.

GW aggressively markets them to the point that most people have no chice but to embrace the mehreens over other playable armies

>>96352669 (OP)
They are basically a blank template you can make your own.
Also spess knights are cool

>>96352669 (OP)
Imperium fans usually fall into one of two camps: People who think Space Marines look cool because they're big fucks in big armor with big guns, and people who like IG for being a bit more grounded.
Personally I like Marines more than guardsmen but thats because the guy who introduced me to 40k was an utterly insufferable IG stan that wouldn't shut the fuck up about them.
Anyway, they're big shitters that hit things good and thats all you need for them to be likable.

I know fucking jackshit about 40k.
Space marines are the ones I see the most often. They are easily identifiable, recognizable silhouette, usually come in one color, seem like normal men(by this setting's standards) so they're easier to imagine yourself as one, and the very concept of a space marine in a big suit of armor is a sci-fi staple since at least Starship Troop so they'll be the first concept that's easy to wrap your head around because you've already seen them many times before. Like how if you know any fantasy at all, you have the basic grasp of an elf or something.
That's my unimportant opinion as a normie to that setting.

>>96354287
*Troopers

>>96354271
Yeah IG fans are insufferable. They have this deitification of the Guard where they talk of how they are the best, and Space Marines are unnecessary.
Yes the Guard is a bedrock but it's quita shaky one that needs Space Marines and Sisters of Battles to stay glued. 3 most popular figures that aren't memed to death and got omnibuses aren't even legit Guardsmen. They are Commissars, which come from an entire diferent set of branches of the Adeptus Militarum

>>96352669 (OP)
>Why do people love space marines so much?
They're the coolest faction in 40k.

>>96354287
Space Marines are really recognizable, and their whole Space Knights/super soldiers shtick. And it helps they have been the face of 40k since 1987.
They even made a prequel tabletop focusing on the civil war which is mostly Space Marine vs Space Marine: the game.

>>96352669 (OP)
I don't know. I thought they were super cool when I was 10 but I grew out of it. Tbh I don't think 40k has anything really cool going on these days.

>>96352669 (OP)
Oversaturated, author's pet trash aimed at closet homosexual manbabbies. Worst part of the setting. They were squatted in 2017 and replaced with an even worse impostor.

>>96352669 (OP)
Because of a MASSIVE continuous marketing campaign telling people to.

>>96354840
>t.schizo

>>96356281
>oversaturated?

>author's pet?

>appeal to manbabbies with latent man-lust

>squatted

>replacement is inferior?

>>96356281
>oversaturated?
[check]
>author's pet?
[check]
>appeal to manbabbies with latent man-lust
[check]
>squatted
[check]
>replacement is inferior?
[check]

>>96352669 (OP)
At first the idea of space monks in power armor reciting scriptures as they fight aliens and demons is cool. In like an 80s heavy metal kinda way. Then when you start reading the actual lore for them you realize they're all a bunch of retarded manchildren. Which is a purposeful design decision, so fair game, but it's also extremely boring to read the same 2-3 personality archetypes in every book and game over and over.

>>96352669 (OP)
Because they have Power and power is attractive
It's not complicated

>>96352669 (OP)
Because your average fanboy doesn't really want a grimdark setting, or for humanity to be barely holding back the tide. They want a jingoist power fantasy where big army man kills all the baddies and gets to be the badass action hero. There is a reason the Horus Heresy and Primarch shit is popular.

>>96356495
(correct answer noise)

To repeat: worst part of the setting.

>>96356495
yeah you pretty much nailed it.

>>96354349
>Yes the Guard is a bedrock but it's quita shaky one that needs Space Marines and Sisters of Battles to stay glued.
Bro, there's like a million Space Marines across the entire Imperium. That's not even one space marine per planet. You can't claim that you're necessary for the Imperium to survive when you're not even 0.000001% of the population and your main contribution to the Imperium's long-term survival is maiming the Emperor.

>>96356495
>big army man kills all the baddies and gets to be the badass action hero
>Horus Heresy

>>96356927
Yes, the entire setting exists for named marines and Primarchs to do just that.

>>96354178
This is cope. "Uhhhh people have np choice uhhhh that's why more people play them rather than the faction I want them to like instead uhhhhhh that's totally the reason, not that peope find Space Marines genuinely appealing uhhhh otherwise that might mean the guys I like aren't actually the coolest, they only are in my opinion uhhhh..."

>>96354271
The Guard is fine but I don't play sci fi games so I can use options that are as close as possible to things in real life.

>>96356881
>You can't claim that you're necessary for the Imperium to survive when etc
But you can make that claim, when there are enemies the Guard can't defeat on their own.

>>96356434
Wrong on all counts. Well, except maybe author's pet.

>>96356447
>you realize they're all a bunch of retarded manchildren
No

>>96357014
That's looking at it the wrong way. The Imperial Guard are the setting's MVP, because in a fictional, fantastical setting, you need normal stuff to make the fantastic stuff seem fantastic. No normies = everything becomes untethered and gay. Maybe the Guard isn't to your taste (not mine, either), but they're the foundation.

Anyways, doesn't really matter, 40k sucks now, and there's no prospect for not sucking ever again.

>>96357063
That's fine, but that justifies the existence of the Guard, not actually playing them.

>>96357029
There are not.

>>96357098
Yes there are. Sorry to break it to you, but it's not a single squad of Stormtroopers that get dropped into the middle of a 'nid swarm to break their attack on a Guard position, Space Marines do that. Because the Guard literally can't. Can the Guard take down a Gargant? More specifically, can *A* guardsman take down a Gargant? Because a Marine can. Break in, wreck face, plant melta charges, bounce out. There is no such thing as even a platoon of guardsmen that could do that, outside of maybe memed Sly Marbo.

>>96357342
>can *A* guardsman take down a Gargant?
There are approximately a million guardsmen for every one Space Marine, this comparison is retarded. Can a million guardsmen take down a Gargant?

>>96357353
>There are approximately a million guardsmen for every one Space Marine
Not actually relevant. Throw a million infantry at a Gargant, and a million will die. The Guard would need massed artillery or Titan support, they can't do it AS SOLDIERS. But a Marine can. On foot.

>>96356495
>The roided child soldier that it's barely enought to hold the threats to humanity back isn't enough because uhhhmmmmmmm.....they sometimes win

>>96357383
Wow, the Guardsmen have to use artillery? What's next? Having to use guns? Shall the marine step out of his armor and remove all his implants too, to make it a fair fight?

Yes, one-for-one a Space Marine is stronger than a Guardsman, congrats. The ratio isn't one-for-one, which is why the Guardsmen are the ones who actually keep the Imperium safe and the Space Marines are a rounding error, even though Space Marines are le super badasses who you self insert as.

>>96357405
Your entire argument falls apart when I simply point out that Marines have tanks too. Guards+Tanks>Marines, but Marines+Tank>Guards+Tanks. The Guard needs tanks and artillery to match what a single Marine can accomplish, but what if there's more than one? Pit an entire Guard regiment, every single Cadian, or Krieg, or whatever, against an entire single Chapter, and the Marines will win that fight. One of the bigger reasons is, if you want to get nitpicky, the Guard, isn't the Navy. It's not the Titan Legions. But Marine Chapters do in fact have their own starships. But even if you want to keep it to ground forces, the Marines still win.

>>96357456
Yes, Space Marines are le cool epic badasses you self-insert as. I know. I'm not arguing they're not le cool epic badasses. I'm arguing they are irrelevant to the survival of the Imperium.

Do you genuinely think that the number of them doesn't matter? Like, if there was exactly 1 Space Marine left in the entire galaxy, and everything else was the same, would you still be like, "umm, he has a tank, ackshually, so he's as important as one trillion Guardsmen"? That one Space Marine would still be a super badass who could beat up a Gargant with his bare hands or whatever, but if the Imperium relied on him alone to live, it would be dead, because he's just one dude. Similarly, one million SMs is way too little to adequately defend the Imperium on any front, which is why people can fight for lifetimes on the front lines and never see a single Space Marine.

>>96357383
>guardsmen dealing with a gargant would only be using small arms.
Behold, the Gaymer.

(Marines equipped only with bolters are also useless in this scenario)

>>96357496
>Yes, Space Marines are le cool epic badasses you self-insert as
And this is you admitting you have nothing.
>I'm arguing they are irrelevant to the survival of the Imperium.
I know. And you're wrong.
>Do you genuinely think that the number of them doesn't matter?
Of course the numbers matter, if you pitted every Marine against every Guardsman, the Guard would win with simple meatball tactics. Congratulations, the Guard are critical to the Imperium because they're led by Zapp fucking Brannigan. But that doesn't work against daemon princes/primarchs, Necron lords, or whatever other big name threat you choose. The Guard are critical because there's too many wars going on for the Marines to cover them all. That in no way means the Guard can actually win those wars on their own, against anything they might encounter.

>>96357534
No, because the Marine can get inside thee Gargant to destroy it from within, if the Guard tried it they'd all die. It helps to pay attention, guardfag.

>>96357557
>the Marine
>the, as in one
In that case, Gargants are a pathetic non-threat, and wouldn't exist, no matter how impractical Orks might be. "Real" war isn't a video game or cartoon, you dumb nerd.

also,
>everyone who disagrees with me is a Guard player

>>96357580
Everyone that's surprised the guardfag can't pick up on context, raise your hand. Wow, no one. Don't worry, I'll help. A Marine being able to accomplish something, is not the same as it being guaranteed, or easy. Did you forget that being dropped in to handle specific powerful threats, is kind of the Marines' whole deal, seeing as they're shock troopers? Because it really seems like you forgot that. That this is the exact scenario in which Marines would be deployed into a Guard battle.

>>96357580
>"Real" war isn't a video game or cartoon, you dumb nerd.
Anon, this is the setting with literal Dæmons that the best way to deal with them is melee. The same setting with robotic skeletons who have teleporting snipers with body melting lasers and Space Orcs that believe a vehicle can go faster if it's colored Red.

>>96356881
>main contribution to the Imperium's long-term survival is maiming the Emperor.
First of all, what does this have to do with Space Marine Chapters? Second, do you realize this literally is from something before the Guard existed and it takes 7 years, on a timezone where Space Marines took planets mostly on their own, right?
Third, this completely ignores that Space Marines divide themselves into Task Forces and strike teams to support diferent theaters, not counting some of these chapters are predisposed to being fleet-based, because unlike Guardsmen, they have their own fleet they command directly.

>>96356881
Main contribution of the marines is the Great Crusade and retaking thousands of words both pre- and past Heresy.

>>96357827
In b4 he mentions the Solar Auxillia forgetting they are the pre-heresy equivalent of Tempetus Scions.

>>96357393
This is a very poorly wrought sentence

>>96357604
Your premise of-
>hurr durr, 1,000,000 Guardsmen would get killed by a gargant
-is retarded. Yes, no shit, a million Guardsmen equipped with only small arms running around in an open field would get killed by a gargant. That's also irrelevant, because no military, real or fictional, operates that way. A million Guardsmen are going to consist of an entire army group (a very large one), consisting of dozens of heavy weapons divisions, each of which would be capable of defeating a gargant.

If we assume Dorn's 10-1 equivalency statement, 100,000 Marines in an open field with nothing but bolters are also going to get mowed the fuck down by a gargant, but that doesn't mean a gargant is superior to 100,000 Marines. Because again, that is an inplausible scenario, and warfare, real or fictional, never works that way.

>>96357614
>"I am incapable of comprehending the use of quotation marks, and believe that just because a setting is fantasy, it should have no trace of verisimilitude. It's all make believe, lol!"

>>96357993
>"I use le hecking realism to explain the innefficiency of genetically modified super soldiers wearing Power Armor and wielding weapons firing plasma taking a giant mechanical construct that shouldn't even move on it's own where normal dudes with laser guns struggle but pretend to be clever by putting quotations between the word real"

>>96358042
>"It's a fantasy setting, so there can't be any kind of internal plausibility!"

>>96352669 (OP)
>easy to paint for dumbass teen anon what can't mix paints right for human skin on guard and doesn't have the patience to paint the quadrillion tchotchkes
>distinctly 40k enough to point and basedface at
>not so over-the-top 40k that it makes people think 40k is ridiculous (40k is ridiculous, space marines and guardsmen just let people pretend it's not)
>geedubs has spent decades producing space marines models, and they have become quite proficient at it
>the same harnessing of human inertia that gave Valve such a dominant market share in vidya
as much as I fucking hate space marines and wish they were part of Imperial Agents instead of being their own entire fucking superfaction, I can at least see why Gaymes Workshop puts them on the front page so often.

>>96352669 (OP)
I just wish IA were a viable army and not some shitty after thought.

>marines and guardsmen arguing over which is essential to the imperium's survival
>as if either of them are

[Laughs in binauric]

>>96352669 (OP)
Most people play the default if they have no reason to dig deeper. Human Fighter, Space Marine, Mario and Luigi. Only once someone is A) Dcently deep into it and B) Has reason to move on, will they move on. 40K's advertising is actively against the idea of "moving on" from space marines, so it is uniquely Defaul-centric.

>>96358065
Your "internal plausibility" is insisting an army of normals that on the average fights like human wave tactics and bayonet charges are the pinnacle of warfare, are better than modified super soldiers with better armor and equipment doing the exact same thing.
Because, according to your logic, if a Space Marine Squad taking on a Lictor better than a Guardsmen squad, it means the Lictor was weak.

I didn't even need to open the thread before i knew there would be annoying guardfags here.

>>96358207
If no one will do it, then I WILL
SO LET IT BE WAR

>>96358080
>(40k is ridiculous, space marines and guardsmen just let people pretend it's not)
Space marines are ridiculous part of the setting.Guardsmen feel out of place in it

>>96358207
I'm an Ork fan

>>96352669 (OP)
They look cool and super soldier warrior brotherhood power fantasy

>>96358225
>The idea of humans facing the worst horrors of the universe is so the best part of the setting
Yeah, without question it is

>>96354128
Yeah man! I love lore! That's why space marines are my favorite 40k faction? There's a game? Never knew. But the lore, man!

>>96357383
Depends on the rules you are using. In Adeptus Titanicus/Space Marine Epic games, a few dozen squads if IG could hose a gargant with hand held weapons and easily bring it down, or board it and clear it out with laspistols and chainswords.

>>96359794
>Ork fan
>fan
So do collect them or not?

>>96359826
See the helmet designs on that pic - Space Marine helmets were originally an IG helmet with a visor.

>>96365416
>>96359826
It's pretty obvious looking at the design sketch that OG marines were heavily inspired by then current trends in sci-fi aesthetics.

>>96357048
Yes. They are mentally stunted children who had their normal growth into adulthood interrupted by psycho-conditioning and nonstop training. They literally lack all social graces as people, which is why the Inquisition isn't just millions of space marines wearing trench coats, because space marines are useless at anything that isn't combat.

>>96356495
The type of Marines fans I love most are the ones who acknowledge the Imperium as being the terrible horrible shitfest it is and yet going "Yeah, the Salamanders/Lamenters are my favourites because they're nice. :)" as if the civilians those idiots strive to protect aren't destined to be worked to death in some manufactorum the day after the Marines succeed in their battle.

That's why it annoys me when people bring up that Eldar child Vulkan burnt to a crisp, as if that was an outlier in his actions in helping Big E genocide his way through space.

>>96367790
>That's why it annoys me when people bring up that Eldar child Vulkan burnt to a crisp, as if that was an outlier in his actions in helping Big E genocide his way through space.
The reason why people bring it up so often is because the books emphasize it as the first significant moment where Vulkan got PTSD from serving the Emperor. The memory of that moment haunts him forever because for the first time he was forced to face the reality of what he and his legion were doing all along: genocide. Everything Vulkan treasured most was family, especially the innocence of children, and he looked an Eldar toddler in the eyes, saw its despair, and burned it to death in the most agonizing way imaginable, purely because the Emperor told him to. Before this moment, Vulkan never really thought about what bringing compliance to a million worlds really meant. Because yes, this was happening to Eldar children, but it happened to billions of human children who had done nothing except have the misfortune of being born on a world that refused to kneel to the Emperor's despotic regime. This moment was the first crack in Vulkan's belief in the Emperor's cause. By the end of the Horus Heresy, Vulkan just gave up on the Imperium as a whole, and it was all because of this moment shattering his preconceptions.

>>96364746
Not if all they do is go insane, turn to worship it and it basically happens in billions to the point it makes a space marine company going traitor look impossible.

>>96367790
He did it in a fit of rage after he believed the Eldar killed his Remembrance entourage, and the Eldar was a child by Eldar standards. Which Curze exploited to rub it in how they were no diferent even though they are.
The Salamanders are Nice but doesn't change they are willing to burn planets to the ground. They have an entire company made specifically to make sure that empathy doesn't get in the way of the duty.

>>96368298
>Which Curze exploited to rub it in how they were no diferent even though they are.
All Primarchs are pretty much the same, they're all living weapons who casually slaughter billions of innocents without really caring one way or the other. The difference between someone like Vulkan and someone like Curze is that Curze realizes what he is, and Vulkan needed the Heresy to come to terms with the truth of his own twisted, fucked-up nature as a genetically engineered killing machine.

>>96356495
>There is a reason the Horus Heresy and Primarch shit is popular.
Anon, the Entire Horus Heresy is literally the opposite of a Jingoist power Fantasy. It's literally the civil war that got the Imperium were it is and let's not forget it's literally barely holding back the tide of turncoats in cahoots with evil gods. It even is the reason why Sigismund said "I'm the GRIM DARKness of the future, there's only war" because he saw everything they built was destroyed and they would never recover.

>>96356520
(Incorrect buzzer)
The worst part is grimderp.

>>96357014
yeah but its nice to have a reference point. normal people given guns and how they’d fare

honestly having everyday jackoffs win over superpowered alien cunts is a pretty awesome concept and I can see why people enjoy it. I don’t play guard but I get it.

>>96356495
horus heresy is the exact opposite. marines have 1 wound, they break, they die, and they die quick. Instant death rules means characters are vulnerable to being blown away in one shot or sword swing. They’re still superhumans but it shows them in their direst state.

>>96368328
No, they don't. Curze is a pessimist who tries to justify his excessive atrocities with "human nature" ye also gets pissed when his men become worst than the people they are trying to keep in check, and start torturing for amusement.
In fact, Dorn chastises him for going an extra mile(like Alpharius), and when Sevatar bluntly asks him "did you try other ways?", it pissed him off.
He's the man who always sees the worst in people.

>>96368512
>No, they don't. Curze is a pessimist who tries to justify his excessive atrocities with "human nature" ye also gets pissed when his men become worst than the people they are trying to keep in check, and start torturing for amusement.
Curze is just a Primarch who didn't fall for the propaganda of the Imperial Truth. His personal obsession with torture is secondary to the fact he understands what he and his legion were created to do and it disgusts and horrifies him on a deep level, so much so that he has to create excuses for his actions. Any Primarch would turn bitter, cold, and cynical if they stopped believing that the Emperor truly had the best intentions for humanity. Vulkan becomes cold and cynical just like Curze over the course of the Heresy.

>>96357393
>The roided child soldier that it's barely enought to hold the threats to humanity back isn't enough because uhhhmmmmmmm.....they sometimes win
>barely enough
>sometimes
Anon... when was the last time Space Marines lost big times again?

Exactly. >>96356495 its 100% correct.

>>96352669 (OP)
you are John Spaceknight but can also be John Spaceoperator while going for John Teutonic Knight, John Mongol, John Vampire, John Viking, John Asshole or John whatever the fuck you want. You are the protagonist faction that gets all the wins, gets to ignore all the scary aspects of the enemy because you know no fear, get to ignore all the autistic aspects of the empire because you stand outside the hierarchy and can enjoy the full fantasy of being a sadistic asshole butchering people and feel smug and rightous about it because "for the emperor!" Its a big, giant power fantasy because your in Grimdark but not really because you are so badass you get to kill all the grimdark and be the action hero that wins all the time

Newfag here. Did the Marines really not use Storm Shields outside of Terminators since before the ethnic replacements Primaris shit? Seems kind of ultra-retarded.

>>96368804
Storm shields used to be way too rare to hand them out to regular marine squads. Pretty much every weapon Terminators were equipped with were ancient relics that were near-impossible to ever replace. Storm shields also used to not work against ranged attacks, only melee, because they were supposed to act like literal shields, not force fields. So it didn't make much sense to equip most marines with them anyways. Now the rules have become so sloppified that nothing even matters anymore... just throw whatever the fuck wargear you want on anyone

>>96368594
>Curze is just a Primarch who didn't fall for the propaganda of the Imperial Truth
So were Jaghatai and Ferrus. Jaghatai literally criticized the Emperor for this, and was disdainful of Malcador's contempt for humanity. He even decided to ignore Dorn's orders just to save civillians in Terra
>His personal obsession with torture is secondary to the fact he understands what he and his legion were created to do and it disgusts and horrifies him on a deep level, so much so that he has to create excuses for his actions.
He wasn't disgusted. What disgusted him was how he became everything he swore to destroy, and how everyone was capable of holding out to hope. Guilliman and Sanguinius literally do this, especially the latter who fears his own nature.
>Any Primarch would turn bitter, cold, and cynical if they stopped believing that the Emperor truly had the best intentions for humanity.
Except Curze WAS already cynical to begin with that he sees others having hopes or even seeking something simple as repulsive. Guilliman even stopped believing on the Emperor's dream and even then he still bleeds for it.
>Vulkan becomes cold and cynical just like Curze over the course of the Heresy.
No he doesn't, there's a diference between "realism" and "pessimism". In fact, he not only physically beats him, but also mentally by saying he's better than him and how he's pathetic monster constantly trying to show how he's right that everyone else is a monster, which he doesn't take well

>>96368900
>So were Jaghatai and Ferrus.
Neither the Khan nor Ferrus realized they were literal abominations engineered for the sole purpose of causing pain and destruction.
>He wasn't disgusted.
He absolutely was, that's the entire reason he hated his own Legion for becoming as bad, if not worse, than the criminals they were punishing.
>Guilliman and Sanguinius literally do this, especially the latter who fears his own nature.
Curze despised Guilliman as a hypocrite, rightfully so, but he actually adored Sanguinius and was devastated when he thought Sanguinius had died in a warp portal. Sanguinius was someone who understood, like Curze, just what kind of a monster the Primarchs and Legions were from the start, but encouraged his Legion to find peace and become better than the Emperor's killing machines. Curze truly admired him, and Sanguinius was the only one who truly understood Curze. Especially since they both shared the curse of prophetic visions, and their visions agreed.
>Except Curze WAS already cynical to begin with that he sees others having hopes or even seeking something simple as repulsive.
He doesn't dislike hope, he loves Sanguinius. He dislikes false hope, or clinging to lies, like Guilliman does.
>No he doesn't, there's a diference between "realism" and "pessimism".
Dude, Vulkan literally just leaves the Imperium after the Heresy. He is so done with every part of it that he refuses to continue working for it any longer. He only comes back to fight the Beast purely because there is no other hope, and proceeds to tell everyone "next time, solve this shit yourselves" before he blows himself up and again, fucks off to parts unknown so he doesn't have to keep playing along with the Emperor's horrible regime.

>>96352669 (OP)
Huge disciplined super soldiers in menacing power armor fighting against monsters.
What's not to like?

>>96368962
>Neither the Khan nor Ferrus realized they were literal abominations engineered for the sole purpose of causing pain and destruction.
Because they weren't just that. The Emperor made them to cover adpects of him. Also, Ferrus said "we were not made to rest".
>Curze despised Guilliman as a hypocrite, rightfully so
This is Curze strawmanning like the cynic. Guilliman was the Primarch with the track record of getting planets with the least ammount of bloodshed, and stayed on those planets to make them better. Guilliman even frowned Scorched Earth Tactics and only used them when he deemed it necessary.
>He doesn't dislike hope, he loves Sanguinius. He dislikes false hope, or clinging to lies, like Guilliman does.
Stop with this, this is Curze being a cynic. He even clings to the lie and the false hope, like the hypocrite going about how others are hypocrites" that his way is the only one. Sevatar, his OWN First Captain, calls him out. He even says "How can you lie to me like this? How can you lie to yourself? I stand here, inside your mind, witnessing a theatre of your own memories. Your way is the Eighth Legion way, now. But it has never been the only way. Just the easiest way."
Curze resorts to violence to being told off, like he did with Vulkan. Curze can't even form a retort to Sevatar, going "it was no other way" until he goes livid and attacks because he can't handle the truth that he also enjoys all of it.
>Dude, Vulkan literally just leaves the Imperium after the Heresy.
He left it because it's a shadow of it's former self. It literally is damaged beyond recovery.
Guilliman doesn't because Guilliman's defining character is determinism, even after seeing all of it's flaws.

>>96368962
Newfag here. Muh wholesome chungus Salamanders Primarch seriously just noped out? The black father vanished to parts unknown?

>>96369563
He did what many Primarchs(both Traitor and Loyalist) that lived did, which was dissappear. The ones that didn't got on a coma or, like Dorn, are prolly dead.

>>96369582
No I know that but the fact that the Primarch of the Chapter that is normally thought of as noblebright as their only trait just abandoning his people and the Imperium as a whole is just hilarious. I'm reading his 1d6chan page now to confirm.

>>96369590
Ah yeah it's weird but considering 40k pulls a "he will return when the time is right" aka Arthurian esque bs with almost every loyalist Primarch, I'm not surprised. They did the exact same thing with Leman and Ferrus(atleast this one is a case of an actual myth cuz Ferrus is dead).

>>96367885
And none of that will matter when GW decides to bring him back

>>96369691
This. Marines good guys Imperium good guys buy Primaris models.

>>96369232
>Because they weren't just that. The Emperor made them to cover adpects of him. Also, Ferrus said "we were not made to rest".
They aren't aspects of the Emperor. They're warp daemons stolen from the Warp and caged in flesh bodies. That's why they're all fucked up in the head.
>This is Curze strawmanning like the cynic.
Guilliman was *proud* of what he did for the Emperor, purely because he had the best track record. He acted like everyone else were the only genociders, as if he had never burned worlds to ash. None of the Primarchs were sinless.
>Stop with this, this is Curze being a cynic.
Every cynic is a broken-hearted idealist. Sanguinius was the only Primarch Curze respected and admired because he was the only one who tried to be better than just war-obsessed killing machines. Sevatar was right, but you're missing the point that Curze already knew he was a monster. He has an entire internal struggle against the Night Haunter who is essentially his twisted alter ego.
>He left it because it's a shadow of it's former self. It literally is damaged beyond recovery.
It was never glorious to begin with. Vulkan leaves because Curze was right, it was all lies from the beginning, it was never going to bring enlightenment to humanity, it existed solely to control humanity, as the Emperor himself admits.
>>96369563
Yes. Vulkan just leaves after he's done rigging the Golden Throne to explode if the Emperor ever tries to get off of it.

>>96369940
>They aren't aspects of the Emperor. They're warp daemons stolen from the Warp and caged in flesh bodies. That's why they're all fucked up in the head.
That can be applied to normal humans.
>Guilliman was *proud* of what he did for the Emperor, purely because he had the best track record. He acted like everyone else were the only genociders, as if he had never burned worlds to ash. None of the Primarchs were sinless
No he didn't. He literally believed that he doesn't think Angron and Leman would go as far as to do scorched Earth Tactics soo nilly-willy, and he made Ultramar before he got in the Imperium, which even after Plague Wars is still considered a paradise. This is not about "which Primarch is sinless". This is about Curze being the worst of the Primarchs and having the audacity to point fingers on others.
>Every cynic is a broken-hearted idealist
Doesn't change that he is trying to drag other idealists down, and lashes out when they don't.
>Sanguinius was the only Primarch Curze respected and admired because he was the only one who tried to be better than just war-obsessed killing machines.
Sanguinius is not the only one that tries, this is Curze's selective opinion as always.
>Sevatar was right, but you're missing the point that Curze already knew he was a monster.
The point is that Curze is busy pointing fingers but will never in his life accept the harsh reality that the people he detests for being hypocrites for clinging to lies and supposed false hopes are better than him, and he doesn't take it well. Him bitching over Guilliman when the latter has dedicated himself to make stable conquests, rather than leave planets into ruins like Curze does.
>It was never glorious to begin with
It is a shadow of it's former self. It's stuck on a technological stasis. Any attempt to discover or make new technology is impossible that Primaris are genuinely consider a leap of tech.

>>96368804
old space marines really followed the theme of a dying empire where everyone left was pretty much just using what they had. Terminator plate was rare to the point where only veterans were allowed to use it, marines only had a few special weapons per squad and were otherwise relegated to bolters and chainswords, wargear was scarce and the more elite the unit was the more access they had to the chapter armory, relics were a big deal and only given to high ranking officers. nowadays with belisarius cawl handwaving and general black library slop writing space marines have infinity resources, all the shiniest newest gear with the only limitations being arbitrary rules put in by GW’s balance team, and show no semblance of being part of a dying empire.

>>96370219
>It is a shadow of it's former self. It's stuck on a technological stasis. Any attempt to discover or make new technology is impossible that Primaris are genuinely consider a leap of tech.
Anon, tech innovation was heresy the moment the Emperor signed a pact with the Mechanicus to give them absolute control over the Imperium's factories and tech production. It was never an empire of enlightenment like the Emperor claimed, it was always a means of controlling humanity. He himself says so in The End and the Death.

>>96354271
For instance

>>96358134
Are you denying that the guard uses heavy weapons and vehicles as a central part of it's doctrine?

>>96370741
>Anon, tech innovation was heresy the moment the Emperor signed a pact with the Mechanicus to give them absolute control over the Imperium's factories and tech production
No it wasn't, they literally made a new patterns of Power Armor. That's literally technological innovation. What he did was put some restrictions like AI(such as the Kaban project) or other, fouler technology like the nerve guns the Dark Angels had which he had their factories destroyed. Do you realize how many tanks were created and innovated from? Do you honestly want me to belief that because the Emperor, an arrogant cunt who spreads an atheistic dogma to keep people blind from Chaos, was not focused on reverse engineering a literal Webway to innovate space travel? You expect me to belief the Imperium doesn't openly innovate using pre-existing technology?

>>96371469
Yes, because their central doctrine is literally human wave tactics, everything else is a side dish given as extra muscle.
If you want a Guardsmen regiment that uses a lot of vehicles as it's central doctrine let alone do anything that isn't human wave tactics, you will have to pick a specialized planet that is capable of making armored or mechanized regiments, like the Armageddon Steel Legion, in the first place.

>>96371594
>No it wasn't, they literally made a new patterns of Power Armor
Mars took over power armor development with the MK2. The MK2 through the MK7 were merely incremental upgrades/sidegrades to the MK2 design. After the Heresy, progress hit a deadwall stop for 10k years because the Mechanicum couldn't sort its own shit out (never could). It wasn't until M41 that they finally finished the MK8 armor pattern, which was a handful of improvements on the MK7.
>What he did was put some restrictions like AI(such as the Kaban project) or other, fouler technology like the nerve guns the Dark Angels had which he had their factories destroyed.
You forget that two entire patterns of Terminator armor were lost during the Great Crusade, not because anyone destroyed the factories, they just literally forgot how to make more of them. Oh, and all the ships they forgot how to build, and all the guns they forgot how to build, like Volkite and Disintegrators... The Imperium was hemorrhaging technology at an astronomical rate the moment the Mechanicum was given control over all tech.
>Do you realize how many tanks were created and innovated from?
And how many of them did the incompetent, superstitious Mechanicum conveniently forgot how to build during the Great Crusade?
>Do you honestly want me to belief that because the Emperor was not focused on reverse engineering a literal Webway to innovate space travel?
As it happens, all he really did was build the Golden Throne so that he could control the already existing Aeldari Webway portal under his Palace. And the Golden Throne was built using stolen tech from the Aeldari as well... in fact it's kind of hard to say he was doing innovation at all.
>You expect me to belief the Imperium doesn't openly innovate using pre-existing technology?
Yes. Because that's the lore. Until GW created Primaris/Cawl so it could sell marinefags an entire new set of miniatures. It still says innovation is heresy in every Mechanicus codex, at least.

>>96371766
>Mars took over power armor development with the MK2. The MK2 through the MK7 were merely incremental upgrades/sidegrades to the MK2 design. After the Heresy, progress hit a deadwall stop for 10k years because the Mechanicum couldn't sort its own shit out (never could). It wasn't until M41 that they finally finished the MK8 armor pattern, which was a handful of improvements on the MK7
Still innovating.
>You forget that two entire patterns of Terminator armor were lost during the Great Crusade, not because anyone destroyed the factories, they just literally forgot how to make more of them. Oh, and all the ships they forgot how to build, and all the guns they forgot how to build, like Volkite and Disintegrators... The Imperium was hemorrhaging technology at an astronomical rate the moment the Mechanicum was given control over all tech.
Okay, on that you got me cuz I genuinely only know Saturnine(which took Vulkan a lot of time to make it work), Cataphractii which was made as a response to Mark III, Tartaros that used similar systems to Mark IV, Gorgon which was still an Iron Hands WIP and was used for Indomitus a and the the prototype Salamanders used. But that they forgot in the great crusade how to make Volkite? Vokite? Are you not confusing the eras?
>And how many of them did the incompetent, superstitious Mechanicum conveniently forgot how to build during the Great Crusade?
Not a lot. This isn't post-heresy.
>As it happens, all he really did was build the Golden Throne so that he could control the already existing Aeldari Webway portal under his Palace. And the Golden Throne was built using stolen tech from the Aeldari as well... in fact it's kind of hard to say he was doing innovation at all.
Not gonna refute that.
>Yes. Because that's the lore. Until GW created Primaris/Cawl so it could sell marinefags an entire new set of miniatures. It still says innovation is heresy in every Mechanicus codex, at least.
What lore? Post-heresy lore?

>>96352669 (OP)
i preffer the Mechanicum, Marines are boring as fuck, i dont give a damn about the lore, i dont play because of that, its the design, marines are just boring shit.

>>96352669 (OP)
Space marines are an enormous part of the lore, they're the easiest to get models, humans are the protagonist faction of the whole universe in an extremely obvious way. If you don't start out in love with them, you're probably not going to stick with the universe unless you end up loving them.

I remember when I first discovered the 40K universe as a teenager, I was first drawn to Eldar, then to tyranids. My first purchase was the Eldar codex just to read the lore, then other codexes. I still remember how cool and evocative and immersive and rich the Eldar lore and all the descriptions of them felt. Still does if I pick up that codex now, although admittedly its hard to fully replicate discovering something you love at that age. But if you keep going further into the world like I did, you're obviously going to end up consuming a lot more Imperium stuff than Eldar stuff.

Similarly I just got into the books and lore back then, but in just the last like 2 years I've finally gotten into the models. Guess what happened. The absolute best deal to get into it at the time I did was buying the Age of Darkness Box and painting all those marines for 40K. If you don't like space marines, even if they're not your favourite faction, you are going to experience things like this as friction that could bounce you off.

as an eldar player I enjoy the prevalence of marines because I enjoy combating them. They have honor and the spirit of battle and I prefer a good war to end with a handshake, and I do not shake hands with chaos